From tony_stewart at NCSU.EDU Wed Feb 1 15:34:52 2006 From: tony_stewart at NCSU.EDU (Tony K. Stewart) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 06 10:34:52 -0500 Subject: language program listings In-Reply-To: <1124551066.4307499a50328@webmail.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <161227077397.23782.10219020324235965035.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues: The South Asia Summer Language Institute serves as a clearing house for information about academic summer programs in South Asian languages taught in the US and abroad. If you run such a program, we would be happy to post a link to your website. Go to: http://www.wisc.edu/sasli/ and choose "other programs" or go directly to: http://www.wisc.edu/sasli/othersummerprogram.htm There you will find contact information to have your program listed or to set up contact information. Sincerely, tony Tony K. Stewart Chair, Board of Trustees and Executive Director South Asia Summer Language Institute & Professor of South Asian Religions and Literatures Dept. of Philosophy and Religion Campus Box 8103 North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC 27695-8103 USA ph. 919.515.6335 email From athr at LOC.GOV Mon Feb 6 16:47:17 2006 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 06 11:47:17 -0500 Subject: History of toilets and sanitation Message-ID: <161227077399.23782.11120106427039553088.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> "I dont think human waste had otherwise been considered anything 'evil' to be caste-off on to someone else. In India, the old, sick and infirm have always been cared for in the homes, and family members gave/give care, including handling their waste. The only thing family members will not do on their own is cremation of their dead." Yes, but the eliminatory products of members of one's own family are of the same substance as one's own and of oneself, and are therefore far less defiling than those of outsiders. From rhayes at UNM.EDU Wed Feb 8 17:31:37 2006 From: rhayes at UNM.EDU (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Wed, 08 Feb 06 10:31:37 -0700 Subject: Summer Seminar in Buddhism, in New Mexico Message-ID: <161227077401.23782.5568974917012786537.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Bodhi Manda Zen Center and the Philosophy Department at University of New Mexico are pleased to announce that the 30th annual summer seminar on Buddhism will be held this year from June 5 to June 16. If any of you have students who may be interested in attending, please pass the following information on to them. This year's featured scholars will be William LaFleur, John McRae and Harold Roth. Professor LaFleur's lecture series are entitled "Mere Buddhism"; Professor McRae's, "Seeing through Zen"; and Professor Roth's, "Taoist Meditation." There will also be presentations by Oshos trained by Rinzai-ji, the organization founded by Roshi Joshu Sasaki. (If his health permits, Roshi Sasaki may also attend. Since he turns 99 years of age this year, it cannot be guaranteed that his health will permit his participation.) It is possible to take the two-week seminar for academic credit, conferred by UNM and transferable to most other colleges and universities. By a special arrangement with the University of New Mexico, no tuition fees are charged for this course. In fact, it costs LESS to take this seminar for academic credit than it costs to attend as a non-student. (A non-student is a participant who is not taking the seminars for academic credit.) Cost for a student for both weeks is $750 Cost for a non-student for both weeks is $900 Cost for a non-student for one week is $500 Bodhi Manda Zen Center is located in a canyon in the beautiful Jemez Mountains in central New Mexico. It is located about one hour's drive northwest of Albuquerque Sunport. The meals are vegetarian. The rooms are simple but comfortable. On the property there is a natural hot spring where people can soak to their heart's content. A typical day includes Zen meditation and chanting in the morning and three class periods per day (two in the morning and one in the evening). There are ample opportunities during mealtimes or unscheduled parts of the day to chat with the lecturers and the Zen monks. The afternoons are usually unscheduled so that attendees can hike, study, meditate, soak in the hot springs, walk through the charming village of Jemez Springs or socialize. More information on the seminars and on this year's professors can be found at the website http://www.summerseminar.org , on which one can also find registration forms and ways to contact human beings who can answer any questions you may have about the seminars. -- Richard Hayes Department of Philosophy University of New Mexico -- Richard Hayes Department of Philosophy University of New Mexico From aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA Fri Feb 10 16:44:44 2006 From: aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 06 08:44:44 -0800 Subject: aaruroha valaahakam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227077408.23782.3881468732236695167.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Could you give a little more of the context (preceding verses. following verses, especially the latter?) Which poem are you referring to? ashok aklujkar On 06-02-10 7:51 AM, "Christophe Vielle" wrote: > at the end of a long fight, the hero has lost all his weapons and is forced > to flee from the battle-field. The text says: > > chinnadhanvaa vasumanaa viniv.rttara.nodyamaH | > vegena mahataa raajann aaruroha valaahakam || ... > Could the expression vegena valaahakam aa-RUH "ascend the Valaahaka > (cloud?) swiftly" mean something as "to bold", "to skedaddle" (in French, > "prendre la poudre d'escampette"). Has somebody already found that > expression in epic context? From aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA Fri Feb 10 17:36:51 2006 From: aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 06 09:36:51 -0800 Subject: aaruroha valaahakam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227077413.23782.9640433485270909142.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A moment after I sent my last message, it occurred to me that in my childhood I had read the phrase abalakha gho.daa in Marathi (please do not ask me where I read it or how long ago my childhood existed). I took it to mean 'a swift, smart horse' on the strength of the context and moved ahead. Now I notice that abalakha occurs in Hindi too but in the sense 'a horse characterized by black colour.' (there may however be an association of swiftness and smartness and hence of superiority with black-colour mares in Indian legends; cf. the K.r.s.naa mare of the Maharashtra hero Shivaji). Perhaps Vi.s.nu was assigned a Valaahaka/Balaahaka horse for similar reasons. As the initial "a' is frequently lost, there is no difficulty in holding that (a)balakha and balaahaka are historically the same word. (I will not get into questions like which form is original, to which language or language family the word originally belonged and which way the borrowing, if it is a case of borrowing as one would suspect, took place.) Even with the limited context available (particularly, vegena aaruroha), one could understand the verse as stating that Vasu-manas bolted from the battle field on a prized horse of a particular kind (as Dr. Vielle has already surmised0. ashok aklujkar On 06-02-10 7:51 AM, "Christophe Vielle" wrote: > va- or balaahaka according to MW has several meanings: "a rain or > thunder-cloud", "any cloud" MBh. Kaav. [cf. Kaalidaasa, KS 1,4]; one of the > 7 clouds appearing at the destruction of the word, Cat. [where?]; [N. of ] > a mountain, L. [cf. Somadeva Kathaas.]; [and among various other proper > names] N. of one of the 4 horses of Vish.nu, Kaad. From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Feb 10 16:25:45 2006 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 06 11:25:45 -0500 Subject: aaruroha valaahakam Message-ID: <161227077406.23782.3676374669196796172.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Could it be the proper name of the hero's chariot? Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D., Senior Reference Librarian South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. >>> vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE 02/10/06 10:51 AM >>> Dear colleagues, at the end of a long fight, the hero has lost all his weapons and is forced to flee from the battle-field. The text says: chinnadhanvaa vasumanaa viniv.rttara.nodyamaH | vegena mahataa raajann aaruroha valaahakam || va- or balaahaka according to MW has several meanings: "a rain or thunder-cloud", "any cloud" MBh. Kaav. [cf. Kaalidaasa, KS 1,4]; one of the 7 clouds appearing at the destruction of the word, Cat. [where?]; [N. of ] a mountain, L. [cf. Somadeva Kathaas.]; [and among various other proper names] N. of one of the 4 horses of Vish.nu, Kaad. Could the expression vegena valaahakam aa-RUH "ascend the Valaahaka (cloud?) swiftly" mean something as "to bold", "to skedaddle" (in French, "prendre la poudre d'escampette"). Has somebody already found that expression in epic context? With best wishes Dr. Christophe Vielle Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud Institut orientaliste Place Blaise Pascal 1 B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve BELGIUM Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 or 58 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) E-mail: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Feb 10 16:55:06 2006 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 06 11:55:06 -0500 Subject: Sharada birchbark mss : anyone offered any? Message-ID: <161227077410.23782.12054835419153710362.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> If anyone has been offered for sale or valuation, or seen in a bookseller's catalog, any modern or medieval birchbark manuscripts from Kashmir, could they please contact me off the list? I should state in advance I am not asking because of any suspicion of theft or national patrimony and export issues, but in helping someone get a basis for appraisal. I am also not referring to ancient Gandhari birchbark mss or similar items, but solely to much more recent Kashmir mss. Thanks, Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D., Senior Reference Librarian South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE Fri Feb 10 15:51:04 2006 From: vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 06 16:51:04 +0100 Subject: aaruroha valaahakam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227077404.23782.12525824909743857855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, at the end of a long fight, the hero has lost all his weapons and is forced to flee from the battle-field. The text says: chinnadhanvaa vasumanaa viniv.rttara.nodyamaH | vegena mahataa raajann aaruroha valaahakam || va- or balaahaka according to MW has several meanings: "a rain or thunder-cloud", "any cloud" MBh. Kaav. [cf. Kaalidaasa, KS 1,4]; one of the 7 clouds appearing at the destruction of the word, Cat. [where?]; [N. of ] a mountain, L. [cf. Somadeva Kathaas.]; [and among various other proper names] N. of one of the 4 horses of Vish.nu, Kaad. Could the expression vegena valaahakam aa-RUH "ascend the Valaahaka (cloud?) swiftly" mean something as "to bold", "to skedaddle" (in French, "prendre la poudre d'escampette"). Has somebody already found that expression in epic context? With best wishes Dr. Christophe Vielle Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud Institut orientaliste Place Blaise Pascal 1 B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve BELGIUM Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 or 58 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) E-mail: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be From tbt7 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Feb 11 01:16:59 2006 From: tbt7 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Tenzin Bob Thurman) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 06 20:16:59 -0500 Subject: aaruroha valaahakam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227077417.23782.9693197845882338712.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Balaahaka is the name of Avalokiteshvara as a Pegasus-type flying horse in a popular myth told, among other places, in the Karan.d.avyuuha Suutra. In your context, could it be the name of the hero's horse? RAFT From vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE Fri Feb 10 19:59:33 2006 From: vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 06 20:59:33 +0100 Subject: aaruroha valaahakam Message-ID: <161227077415.23782.10587377514819603664.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you very much for all these swift comments! >Could you give a little more of the context (preceding verses. following >verses, especially the latter?) Which poem are you referring to? >ashok aklujkar It is in an epic portion of the unedited Jaiminiiyasa.mhitaa of the Brahmaa.ndapuraa.na (about which I shall tell more in Edinburgh). The context is a long fight between the Kosala king Vasumanas and the Hehayas kings Bhadrazre.nya and his son Durdama. At the end, Vasumanas is forced to descent from his chariot because the two others come close to him (they attack with swords because their bows were already destroyed by Vasumanas): tadantare samAsAdya durdamas tasya satvaraH | vAmadhuryau ca sUtaM ca nijaghAnAsinA drutam ||9.71 bhadrazreNyo 'pi khaDgena prasahya raNamUrdhani | nijaghAnAparau dhuryAv akSaM ca nirakRntata ||9.72 tayor madhyagato dhanvI lAghavena dhanustrayam | samullaGghya rathAd bhUmAv atiSThad garuDo yathA ||9.73 khaDgacarmadharau vIrau tau ca taM pratyadhAvatAm | hantukAmau narapatiM garuDAnilaraMhasau ||9.74 tato harSasamAviSTA hehayendrAnuyAyinaH | kSveDitAsphoTitaravair vasudhAm anvanAdayan ||9.75 vitrastamanasaz caiva kosalA rAjagRddhinaH | taM khaDgadhAranirdagdham amanyanta janAdhipam ||9.76 tato vasumanA rAjann asaMbhrAnto mahAmanAH | mumoca tau samuddizya bANA? zata sahasrazaH ||9.77 tau cApi vividhAn mArgAMz caramANau mahArathau | tvarayA paryavartetAM maNDale savyadakSiNe ||9.78 tataH sa mAdhavIsUnur hehayendrasya saMyuge | udbhrAmyamANaM bANena kRpANaM nirakRntata ||9.79 taM ca sAdhunisRSTena zareNArividAriNA | nirbibheda mahArAja bhRzaM savye stanAntare ||9.80 sa gADhaviddho vyathito vyapAkramya padAni SaT | samAdAya gadAM gurvIm abhidudrAva vegataH ||9.81 durdamo 'pi zareNAjau dRDham abhyAhato 'riNA | prAhiNot khaDgam Avidhya kosalendrAya saMyati ||9.82 sa tu hastavatA muktaH kRpANaH kanakatsaruH | chittvAsya sazaraM cApaM dharaNIm anvapadyata ||9.83 chinnadhanvA vasumanA vinivRttaraNodyaMaH | vegena mahatA rAjann Aruroha valAhakam ||9.84 hehayau tu parizrAntau samare bhRzavikSatau | upArametAM samarAd dhatazeSair balaiH saha ||9.85 > Could it be the proper name of the hero's chariot? Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D., Senior Reference Librarian I do not think because names for chariot are never given in the text. >A moment after I sent my last message, it occurred to me that in my >childhood I had read the phrase abalakha gho.daa in Marathi (please do not >ask me where I read it or how long ago my childhood existed). I took it to >mean 'a swift, smart horse' on the strength of the context and moved ahead. >Now I notice that abalakha occurs in Hindi too but in the sense 'a horse >characterized by black colour.' (there may however be an association of >swiftness and smartness and hence of superiority with black-colour mares in >Indian legends; cf. the K.r.s.naa mare of the Maharashtra hero Shivaji). >Perhaps Vi.s.nu was assigned a Valaahaka/Balaahaka horse for similar >reasons. >As the initial "a' is frequently lost, there is no difficulty in holding >that (a)balakha and balaahaka are historically the same word. (I will not >get into questions like which form is original, to which language or >language family the word originally belonged and which way the borrowing, if >it is a case of borrowing as one would suspect, took place.) Even with the >limited context available (particularly, vegena aaruroha), one could >understand the verse as stating that Vasu-manas bolted from the battle field >on a prized horse of a particular kind (as Dr. Vielle has already surmised0. >ashok aklujkar Thank you very much. The best solution is indeed that the word means "a good horse". I find now in S?rensen index of the MBh (s.v.) that Balaahaka is the name of one of the four horses, and more precisely of one (maybe the right one) of the two paar.s.ni-vaahas (outside horses), of K.r.s.na's chariot (with Zaibya, Sugriiva and Meghapu.spa). There must clearly be some historical link between the latter use of balaahaka as a proper name and the use of the word in my text (and in the vernacular languages) as a common name. What is sure is that it cannot be here seen as a proper name, and Vasumanas has already lost the four horses of his own chariot because of Bhadraze.nya : tataH kRpANaM nizitaM vikozaM hehayezvaraH | jagrAha carma ca ruSA zatacandravibhUSitam ||9.56 avaplutya rathAt tUrNaM hatvAzvAn kosalezvaram | abhidudrAva vegena siMhaH siMham ivaujasA ||9.57 I could add that in a previous chapter (and a long time before) Vasumanas had a "magic" horse (for hunting) who was able to fly (this one has a proper name which is not Balaahaka; but there is no longer mention of him in the battle context) : etasminn eva kAle tu mRgayArthaM sasainikaH | tad eva pravivezAgre rAjA vasumanA vanam ||5.13 yasmai jImUtanAmAnam azvaratnam anuttamam | dadau pracetaso labdhaM kulUtaviSayAdhipaH ||5.14 zrIvRkSalakSaNopetaM sahasrAkSahayopamam | zubhraM saMbhRtarandhrAGgaM javenAntaritAnilam ||5.15 Anyway, the use of the word valaahaka with the meaning of "swift horse" must be a late/regional one. It is nevertheless worth of notice for the Sanskrit vocabulary. [John Brockington tells me that I does not recall this or a similar expression anywhere in either epic ] >>>> vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE 02/10/06 10:51 AM >>> > Dear colleagues, > >at the end of a long fight, the hero has lost all his weapons and is forced >to flee from the battle-field. The text says: > >chinnadhanvaa vasumanaa viniv.rttara.nodyamaH | >vegena mahataa raajann aaruroha valaahakam || > >va- or balaahaka according to MW has several meanings: "a rain or >thunder-cloud", "any cloud" MBh. Kaav. [cf. Kaalidaasa, KS 1,4]; one of the >7 clouds appearing at the destruction of the word, Cat. [where?]; [N. of ] >a mountain, L. [cf. Somadeva Kathaas.]; [and among various other proper >names] N. of one of the 4 horses of Vish.nu, Kaad. > >Could the expression vegena valaahakam aa-RUH "ascend the Valaahaka >(cloud?) swiftly" mean something as "to bold", "to skedaddle" (in French, >"prendre la poudre d'escampette"). Has somebody already found that >expression in epic context? > >With best wishes > >Dr. Christophe Vielle >Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud >Institut orientaliste >Place Blaise Pascal 1 >B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve >BELGIUM >Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 or 58 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) >E-mail: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Dr. Christophe Vielle Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud Institut orientaliste Place Blaise Pascal 1 B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve BELGIUM Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 or 58 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) E-mail: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Feb 11 12:59:20 2006 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 06 12:59:20 +0000 Subject: DRSTI, Visual Knowledge Message-ID: <161227077419.23782.2346351888312738452.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> DRSTI Experiencing Knowledge, Visually. While shruti or the oral word ,is the supreme source of knowledge, drsti or what is seen has its own unique place in the apprehension, experience and realisation of ultimate reality or atmajnana in the Indian tradition. Whether it is through motifs and metaphors, icons and images represented on mud walls or temples, fabrics or manuscripts, the hasta mudras and abhinaya of dance, the narrative tradition of murals or scrolls, the visual poetry of miniature paintings, the subliminal messages of contemporary paintings, the suggestions arising from spaces sacred or secular, they all become sources of visual knowledge. Drsti by-passes the rational mode of knowledge such as language and appeals intuitively to the inner mind and leads to anubhava or an instant experience, While drsti leads to darshana, the contemplative and intuitive drsti leads to atmajnana. Drsti is a two way process, the first is the optics which registers impressions on the eye from the outer world. However drsti requires the mind to perceive and infer these sensual impressions into a meaningful experience. It is the latter process of perception and inference that brings in subjectivity to the process of seeing. Thus this could bring in differences between the traditional and the modern in the modes of drsti. Drsti therefore is half seen and half perceived. The seminar and workshop will explore various aspects of drsti in the Indian tradition, both traditional and modern and feature panel discussions, exhibitions and performances that will highlight drsti in its manifold aspects. You are asked to submit your proposal as soon as possible, to be followed by your paper of about 3000 words, to either of us by August 2006. The first ten submissions will be considered for travel grants. The provisional dates for the seminar are January 4,5,6 2007 and it will be held at the Habitat Centre in New Delhi. Prof. Harsha Dehejia, College of Humanities, Carleton University, Ottawa, ON., Canada. harshadehejia at hotmail.com From Axel.Michaels at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Sun Feb 12 21:24:19 2006 From: Axel.Michaels at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 06 22:24:19 +0100 Subject: Nepali Summer Course Message-ID: <161227077421.23782.17184971718693633869.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Department of Classical Indology at the South Asia Institute Heidelberg/Germany announces an *Intensive Nepali Course* from *01.08.- 26.08.06*, which is organized here in Heidelberg for the 2nd time. For further details see: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/studium/nepSSchool/ss06/ss06_en.html The course will be held under the guidance of Mr. Lakshmi Nath Shreshta, an experienced Nepali teacher, who has taught Nepali to generations of students and researchers. From the very beginning the course will be held in Nepali only, so the students will get practical skills in Spoken Nepali very quickly and be able to start speaking after just one week! *Prerequisites*: basic knowledge of English *Fee*: Euro 320,- (incl. teaching materials) *Accommodation*: hostel on request, approx. Euro 200,- *Deadlines*: application May 15, 2006, payment June 30, 2006 *Application Form*: (.pdf 8KB) (.doc 36KB) Nepali Intensive Course, August 1st - 26th, 2006 *Venue*: South Asia Institute, Heidelberg/ Germany *Organizer*: Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels *Applications by e-mail*: Matthias.Ortlieb at urz.uni-heidelberg.de *Applications by post*: ?Nepali Intensive Course?, Dept. of Classical Indology South Asia Institute Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 69120 Heidelberg For further questions please do not hesitate to contact Matthias Ortlieb. Matthias.Ortlieb at urz.uni-heidelberg.de Tel: +49(0)6221-54 49 07 Fax: +49(0)6221-54 63 38 -- Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels Direktor der Abt. Klassische Indologie, Sprecher des Sonderforschungsbereichs 619 (Ritualdynamik) und des DFG-Fachkollegiums 106 (Aussereurop?ische Kulturen, Ethnologie, Religionswissenschaft) S?dasien-Institut der Universit?t Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 D-69120 Heidelberg Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338 / www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html; www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de From yyokochi at BUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP Mon Feb 13 05:02:46 2006 From: yyokochi at BUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP (Yuko Yokochi) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 06 14:02:46 +0900 Subject: aaruroha valaahakam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227077423.23782.8570244184739031879.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Jiimuuta, the name of the magical horse given in 5.14, means `a cloud'. Balaahaka in the verse in question probably denotes this horse as a synonym of Jiimuuta. Yuko Yokochi From aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA Wed Feb 15 18:12:20 2006 From: aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 06 10:12:20 -0800 Subject: Newspaper report: Ancient sea link discovered by ASI Message-ID: <161227077425.23782.2722184023575190634.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Some list members may find the following news item useful, particularly because of its mention of iron and a Brahmi Tamil inscription ("Brahmin" in the news item seems to be a typo for Brahmi; it is not clear to me how the inscription was determined to be Tamil and incomplete if it is not yet decoded; perhaps "decoded" is to be understood as 'not fully deciphered') ashok aklujkar. >???From The Statesman, Monday, !3 Feb 06 Ancient sea link discovered by ASI Press Trust of India CHANDIGARH, Feb. 12. ? Unraveling some facts buried in history, experts from Archaeological Survey of India said the possibility of a sea link between south India and the rest of Asia about 3,800 years ago could not be ruled out. Mr Arun Malik, an archaeologist with ASI, Chennai, while throwing light on Adichannallur civilisation, said here that the observation of human morphological types based on the cranial evidences point to the existence of more than one racial and ethnic group in that region during the period of the civilisation?s long geo-historic period. ?Occurrences of intermediate and pure traits of yellow race of South?east and Far-east Asia and typical ethnic and tribal Indians on the external morphology of the skulls and bones give credence to the fact that a sea trade may have been there,? said Mr P Raghavan, a bio-anthropologist currently assisting ASI, Chennai, in studying geo-morphological aspects. Mr Malik said the latest excavations at the Adichanallur?s pre-historic site along the coast of Tuticorin in Tamil Nadu have yielded more than 160 urns, many of which contained hundreds of different-sized potteries. Husk, paddy and other cereals have also been found in the urns. He said the people of Adichanallur were agrarian in nature who also mastered blacksmithery and made a variety of iron implements. ?The engraved drawings on the clay urns narrate the decoded ecological, environmental and cultural significance. For example, a fascinating art showing a tall dancing female with a large-sized reptile, probably a crocodile, and a member of a deer group explain the pre-historic faunal and floral wealth. An incomplete ancient Brahmin Tamil script engraved on inner surface of urn is yet to be decoded,? said Mr Malik. On the practice of burying their dead, Mr Malik said most of the burials were in association with iron and copper metallic objects like swords, knives and bangles. Mr Raghavan said he had identified a unique pre-historic discovery of a stillborn baby. ?The foetus is about 3-5 months old, which I found from one of the urns. Association of fossilised bird bones and domesticated cattle teeth further throw light on the pre-historic domestication of animals,? he said. From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Wed Feb 15 19:17:09 2006 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 06 11:17:09 -0800 Subject: Newspaper report: Ancient sea link discovered by ASI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227077427.23782.2366659618686950578.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> For more on this, including some wonderful pictures, see hhttp://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2213/stories/20050701000106500.htm Tamil Brahmi writing should be recognizable as such -- since it is somewhat different from the Indo-Aryan variants. Another article says The centrepiece contained Tamil writing in very rudimentary Tamil Brahmi, engraved inside an urn. Epigraphists have tentatively read the writing as "ka ri a ra va [na] ta." (see http://www.hindu.com/2005/04/03/stories/2005040301931400.htm) I don't know what that would mean (in Tamil or Prakrit), but it would certainly not be surprising to find an inscription in old Tamil Brahmi dating from about 200 BCE. George Hart On Feb 15, 2006, at 10:12 AM, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > Some list members may find the following news item useful, > particularly > because of its mention of iron and a Brahmi Tamil inscription > ("Brahmin" in > the news item seems to be a typo for Brahmi; it is not clear to me > how the > inscription was determined to be Tamil and incomplete if it is not yet > decoded; perhaps "decoded" is to be understood as 'not fully > deciphered') > > ashok aklujkar. > > From The Statesman, Monday, !3 Feb 06 > > Ancient sea link discovered by ASI > > Press Trust of India > CHANDIGARH, Feb. 12. ? Unraveling some facts buried in history, > experts > from Archaeological Survey of India said the possibility of a sea link > between south India and the rest of Asia about 3,800 years ago > could not be > ruled out. > Mr Arun Malik, an archaeologist with ASI, Chennai, while throwing > light on > Adichannallur civilisation, said here that the observation of human > morphological types based on the cranial evidences point to the > existence of > more than one racial and ethnic group in that region during the > period of > the civilisation?s long geo-historic period. ?Occurrences of > intermediate > and pure traits of yellow race of South?east and Far-east Asia and > typical > ethnic and tribal Indians on the external morphology of the skulls > and bones > give credence to the fact that a sea trade may have been there,? > said Mr P > Raghavan, a bio-anthropologist currently assisting ASI, Chennai, in > studying > geo-morphological aspects. > Mr Malik said the latest excavations at the Adichanallur?s pre- > historic > site along the coast of Tuticorin in Tamil Nadu have yielded more > than 160 > urns, many of which contained hundreds of different-sized > potteries. Husk, > paddy and other cereals have also been found in the urns. > He said the people of Adichanallur were agrarian in nature who also > mastered blacksmithery and made a variety of iron implements. > ?The engraved drawings on the clay urns narrate the decoded > ecological, > environmental and cultural significance. For example, a fascinating > art > showing a tall dancing female with a large-sized reptile, probably a > crocodile, and a member of a deer group explain the pre-historic > faunal and > floral wealth. An incomplete ancient Brahmin Tamil script engraved > on inner > surface of urn is yet to be decoded,? said Mr Malik. On the > practice of > burying their dead, Mr Malik said most of the burials were in > association > with iron and copper metallic objects like swords, knives and bangles. > Mr Raghavan said he had identified a unique pre-historic discovery > of a > stillborn baby. ?The foetus is about 3-5 months old, which I found > from one > of the urns. Association of fossilised bird bones and domesticated > cattle > teeth further throw light on the pre-historic domestication of > animals,? he > said. From aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA Thu Feb 16 00:42:42 2006 From: aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 06 16:42:42 -0800 Subject: Summer Course in Beginning Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227077430.23782.6211692805909940677.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sorry if this announcement comes to you in multiple postings. Your help in spreading the information will be appreciated. A Summer Course in Beginning Sanskrit Introductory Sanskrit (SANS 102) will be taught by Professor Ashok Aklujkar in the second term of the 2006 summer session at the University of British Columbia. This will be the last time Professor Aklujkar will teach this course at UBC, because he will retire from the Department of Asian Studies, (Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2) at the end of 2006 in keeping with the mandatory retirement policy currently in force at UBC. The dates set for the course are Monday 17 July - Saturday 26 August 2006, with a two-hour final examination taking place on the last day. During the specified six weeks, the class will meet, in Buchanan B224, for 3-3.5 hours each on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday mornings (9-12 a.m, with possible extension toward 8:00 a.m. or 01:00 p.m. on some days), making a total of 78 hours of instruction and testing. Students will have Wednesdays and weekends free for consolidation of what they learn on the other days. The current UBC fees for such a 6-credit course are C$802.20 for Canadian students and C$3,324.00 (approximately equal to US$ 2,825.40) for international students. The course credits presuppose a term or semester system. They may correspond to a higher number at universities following the quarter system. There are no prerequisites for the course other than suitability for admission at the University of British Columbia. Inquiries regarding this suitability should be directed to Enrolment Services at UBC: Web: http://students.ubc.ca/welcome/admission.cfm, tel: 604-822-3414, Other inquiries of a practical nature should be made at the Department of Asian Studies: , tel: 604-822-0019. Information about the Department can be had at http://www.asia.ubc.ca/index.php?id=4991. For inquiries regarding course content and the textbook _Sanskrit: an Easy Introduction to an Enchanting Language_., Prof. Aklujkar can be contacted at , tel. 1-604-822-5185, 1-604-274-5353. Interested students coming from distant places should inquire at their universities or with the local India specialists if any financial assistance is available. For non-Canadian students, exchange agreements between Canada and their country of residence may prove to be useful. Vancouver, one of the most beautiful cities in the world, is well-known for its pleasant summers. From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Fri Feb 17 13:49:08 2006 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 06 07:49:08 -0600 Subject: Fwd: Malayalam Ad Message-ID: <161227077432.23782.14681722606478354698.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Friends: Please share this advertisement with anyone who may be able to help locate a suitable instructor in Malayalam. Thanks. Patrick Olivelle MALAYALAM The Department of Asian Studies at the University of Texas at Austin invites applications for a Lecturer position in Malayalam language. This is a one year appointment with a strong possibility of continuing. Candidates should have an advanced degree in some field that relates to Language, Linguistics or Malayalam language and a record of excellence in teaching. The selected candidate will be expected to teach Malayalam language at all levels. Please send a letter of interest, current CV, three letters of reference, recent papers/publications , and relevant syllabi to Malayalam Search Committee, Department of Asian Studies, 1 University Station, G9300, The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas 78712. The search will continue until an appointment is made. An AA/EEO employer. From btwentwo at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Feb 17 21:13:13 2006 From: btwentwo at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Blake Wentworth) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 06 15:13:13 -0600 Subject: Commercial Nagari font? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227077440.23782.11060646456214969048.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> For anyone who uses a Macintosh, and would like to have all the conjuncts necessary for Sanskrit readily available to the Devanagari- QWERTY keyboard, I have a nicely tweaked Devanagari MT font that serves this purpose very well. It is free for anyone who would like it: if you want a copy, please email me with "devanagari font" in the title, and I'll send it to you. --Blake Blake Wentworth btwentwo at midway.uchicago.edu (M) 773.771.0172 (W) 773.834.9199 The Divinity School Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago On Feb 17, 2006, at 3:07 PM, Tony K. Stewart wrote: > Dear Prof. Hanneder: > > I would suggest that as a first step you consult the resource guide > on fonts at the South Asia Language Resource Center, a > collaborative effort of the US Department of Education's Title VI > National Resource Centers for South Asia. The SALRC is located at > the University of Chicago. > > See: http://salrc.uchicago.edu/ > > The font section is listed under "resources"": http:// > salrc.uchicago.edu/resources/fonts/ > > Cheers, > tony > > Tony K. Stewart > Professor of South Asian Religions and LIteratures > Dept. of Philosophy and Religion > Campus Box 8103 > North Carolina State University > Raleigh, NC 27695-8103 USA > ph. 919.515.6335 > email > > On Feb 17, 2006, at 8:56 PM, Walter Slaje wrote: > >> ------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht / Forwarded message ------- >> Datum: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 17:41:28 +0100 (CET) >> Von: "Dr. Juergen Hanneder" >> >> Betreff: Weiterleitung an Indology >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Subject: Commercial Nagari font? >> --text follows this line-- >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> can anyone recommend high quality Devanagari fonts for Sanskrit. >> >> I think that I have probably seen most of the free Nagari fonts >> available and I am of course aware that some of them are quite >> good. And, of course, looking at the glyph table of some of the >> commercial fonts is slightly disappointing, but I have not yet given >> up hope for more professional tools for printing. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Juergen Hanneder >> University of Halle From tony_stewart at NCSU.EDU Fri Feb 17 21:07:17 2006 From: tony_stewart at NCSU.EDU (Tony K. Stewart) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 06 16:07:17 -0500 Subject: Commercial Nagari font? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1FACh2-0u5ya00@fwd26.sul.t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227077438.23782.17113184029550654887.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Prof. Hanneder: I would suggest that as a first step you consult the resource guide on fonts at the South Asia Language Resource Center, a collaborative effort of the US Department of Education's Title VI National Resource Centers for South Asia. The SALRC is located at the University of Chicago. See: http://salrc.uchicago.edu/ The font section is listed under "resources"": http:// salrc.uchicago.edu/resources/fonts/ Cheers, tony Tony K. Stewart Professor of South Asian Religions and LIteratures Dept. of Philosophy and Religion Campus Box 8103 North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC 27695-8103 USA ph. 919.515.6335 email On Feb 17, 2006, at 8:56 PM, Walter Slaje wrote: > ------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht / Forwarded message ------- > Datum: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 17:41:28 +0100 (CET) > Von: "Dr. Juergen Hanneder" > > Betreff: Weiterleitung an Indology > ------------------------------------------------------- > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Commercial Nagari font? > --text follows this line-- > > Dear Colleagues, > > can anyone recommend high quality Devanagari fonts for Sanskrit. > > I think that I have probably seen most of the free Nagari fonts > available and I am of course aware that some of them are quite > good. And, of course, looking at the glyph table of some of the > commercial fonts is slightly disappointing, but I have not yet given > up hope for more professional tools for printing. > > Kind regards > > Juergen Hanneder > University of Halle From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Fri Feb 17 20:56:00 2006 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 06 20:56:00 +0000 Subject: Commercial Nagari font? (fwd) Message-ID: <161227077434.23782.9656992732046159097.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht / Forwarded message ------- Datum: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 17:41:28 +0100 (CET) Von: "Dr. Juergen Hanneder" Betreff: Weiterleitung an Indology ------------------------------------------------------- To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Commercial Nagari font? --text follows this line-- Dear Colleagues, can anyone recommend high quality Devanagari fonts for Sanskrit. I think that I have probably seen most of the free Nagari fonts available and I am of course aware that some of them are quite good. And, of course, looking at the glyph table of some of the commercial fonts is slightly disappointing, but I have not yet given up hope for more professional tools for printing. Kind regards Juergen Hanneder University of Halle From ferenc.ruzsa at ELTE.HU Fri Feb 17 21:05:36 2006 From: ferenc.ruzsa at ELTE.HU (Ferenc Ruzsa) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 06 22:05:36 +0100 Subject: Something wrong with the WSC? Message-ID: <161227077436.23782.6465476567658664349.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Friends, I am not allowed to speak at the 13th World Sanskrit Conference in Edinburgh. This might seem a purely personal affair [and it is: living in Budapest, it is not exactly nice to be cut off from an important forum of communication with the scholarly community], but perhaps it does have some general interest as well. 1. I offered a paper in which I intended to disprove the generally accepted view according to which the cosmogonical myth of the Puru.sa-suukta is Indo-European inheritance. 2. It was rejected ? no reason given. 3. After inquiry for the ground of the decision in e-mail I was told that "the subject matter ... was not sufficiently relevant to the concerns of a World Sanskrit Conference." 4. I offered another paper on old Nyaaya inference. As it was submitted after the deadline [of course, since the previous rejection was received a month after the deadline] it was evaluated as a special favour for me. 5. Rejected again: they "do not find it to contain an original idea, and therefore reject it." I quote my abstract below, so that anybody may see if it contains anything new or not. I am unaware of any conceivable personal reason for this double rejection. Any comments? Ferenc Ruzsa ------ The abstract: -------- The centrality of udaahara.na in old Nyaaya inference The five-membered naiyaayika inference seems unnecessarily complex. The following three questions are inherently interrelated: ? What is the role of the fourth and fifth members, when they are but repetitions of the second (proof) and the first (proposition/conclusion)? ? Why do we have in the third member an example instead of a statement of the general rule? ? Why are there two examples, positive and contrary, when the rules illustrated by them are but contrapositives of each other, i.e. they are logically equivalent? Later Nyaaya practically dropped the last two members, keeping them only for rhetoric reasons in public arguments (paraarthaanumaana). And already Dharmakiirti suggested that the first two members only constitute a valid inference (the general rule being implied by them). But the Suutra is very strict on the five members: omitting or adding an extra member means unconditional defeat in a debate (nigrahasthaana). Already in the Suutra we find clear awareness of the fact that no example is a valid substitution of the general rule: one kind of false reason, hetvaabhaasa is the savyabhicaara, where there is an exception to the rule. And later Nyaaya develops the theory of the upaadhis, restricting conditions to correct such faulty inferences. The two kinds of example are generally justified with reference to those rather unusual cases where either of the two is not possible (kevalaanvayin, kevalavyatirekin). This explanation, although ingenious, is not fully convincing as it is extremely difficult to find a plausible example of a kevala-vyatireki li"ngam. We get closer to a possible answer once we get rid of the notion that the anumaana is but a contorted version of the very simple Barbara-type syllogism. Then we may recognise that the Nyaaya inference is essentially inductive and intensional, in contrast to the basically extensional and strictly deductive nature of traditional European logic. Here the question is not, ?Given these premisses, what follows?? but rather ?How can we get the right premisses?? And it is the function of the udaahara.na to establish them. The premiss being sought is always a necessary relation; purely extensional or accidental universality, like ?all chairs here are brown? is not considered. This is already suggested by Pra"sastapaada and explicitly stated by Dharmakiirti. So this premiss, the general rule, must be a natural or metaphysical law. The two kinds of example represent two complementary research strategies to find, confirm or reject such laws, e.g. there is no smoke without fire. Focusing our attention on smoky objects, we try to remember a case when there was no fire nearby; and then focusing on essentially non-fiery objects, we try to find a case when there was still some smoke there. The stock example is very suggestive. ?As in the kitchen? is clearly not a single case of co-occurrence of fire and smoke, but refers to innumerable observations, and furthermore the causal relation could also be easily observed there. ?Not as on the lake? again suggests many observations, and also helps to clarify the concept of smoke ? for there may be dhuuma on the lake, in the sense of ?mist?. Presenting this double strategy is a convincing way to prove a general law; and in a debate it is a fair offer to the opponent: try in both ways to find a counter-example! And if you can?t, then accept my rule. In a real debate this could be a long and complicated process; that is why at the end it was very useful to recall the other premiss (there is smoke on the mountain) and the proposition (there is fire on the mountain) ? since they were announced hours, perhaps days ago; and in the meantime the meaning of smoke has also become more definite, so we should now check if it was really smoke or only mist we saw. From lmfosse at CHELLO.NO Sat Feb 18 17:05:48 2006 From: lmfosse at CHELLO.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 06 18:05:48 +0100 Subject: SV: Something wrong with the WSC? In-Reply-To: <006101c63406$10962000$d554b59d@elte.hu> Message-ID: <161227077443.23782.802245470893423412.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Ferenc, Since I read an earlier version of you Purusha paper, I must express some astonishment at the rejection. I found it quite interesting and stimulating, and I see no reason why it should not be read at an Indological conference. Given the latest work in comparative mythology (pending publication) by Michael Witzel (who makes comprehensive comparisons of mythological material), I dare say your paper belongs in the forefront of such studies. It is certainly a valid contribution to the field, and since it is Vedic, it should also be of Indological interest. As for your Nyaya project, I must leave that to others. Best regards, Lars Martin From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no http://www.linguistfinder.com/translators.asp?id=2164 > -----Opprinnelig melding----- > Fra: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] P? vegne av > Ferenc Ruzsa > Sendt: 17. februar 2006 22:06 > Til: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Emne: Something wrong with the WSC? > > Friends, > > I am not allowed to speak at the 13th World Sanskrit > Conference in Edinburgh. This might seem a purely personal > affair [and it is: living in Budapest, it is not exactly nice > to be cut off from an important forum of communication with > the scholarly community], but perhaps it does have some > general interest as well. > > 1. I offered a paper in which I intended to disprove the > generally accepted view according to which the cosmogonical > myth of the Puru.sa-suukta is Indo-European inheritance. > 2. It was rejected ? no reason given. > 3. After inquiry for the ground of the decision in e-mail I > was told that "the subject matter ... was not sufficiently > relevant to the concerns of a World Sanskrit Conference." > 4. I offered another paper on old Nyaaya inference. As it was > submitted after the deadline [of course, since the previous > rejection was received a month after the deadline] it was > evaluated as a special favour for me. > 5. Rejected again: they "do not find it to contain an > original idea, and therefore reject it." I quote my abstract > below, so that anybody may see if it contains anything new or not. > > I am unaware of any conceivable personal reason for this > double rejection. > Any comments? > > Ferenc Ruzsa > > ------ The abstract: -------- > The centrality of udaahara.na in old Nyaaya inference > > The five-membered naiyaayika inference seems unnecessarily > complex. The following three questions are inherently interrelated: > ? What is the role of the fourth and fifth members, when they > are but repetitions of the second (proof) and the first > (proposition/conclusion)? > ? Why do we have in the third member an example instead of a > statement of the general rule? > ? Why are there two examples, positive and contrary, when the > rules illustrated by them are but contrapositives of each > other, i.e. they are logically equivalent? > Later Nyaaya practically dropped the last two members, > keeping them only for rhetoric reasons in public arguments > (paraarthaanumaana). And already Dharmakiirti suggested that > the first two members only constitute a valid inference (the > general rule being implied by them). But the Suutra is very > strict on the five members: omitting or adding an extra > member means unconditional defeat in a debate (nigrahasthaana). > Already in the Suutra we find clear awareness of the fact > that no example is a valid substitution of the general rule: > one kind of false reason, hetvaabhaasa is the savyabhicaara, > where there is an exception to the rule. > And later Nyaaya develops the theory of the upaadhis, > restricting conditions to correct such faulty inferences. > The two kinds of example are generally justified with > reference to those rather unusual cases where either of the > two is not possible (kevalaanvayin, kevalavyatirekin). This > explanation, although ingenious, is not fully convincing as > it is extremely difficult to find a plausible example of a > kevala-vyatireki li"ngam. > We get closer to a possible answer once we get rid of the > notion that the anumaana is but a contorted version of the > very simple Barbara-type syllogism. Then we may recognise > that the Nyaaya inference is essentially inductive and > intensional, in contrast to the basically extensional and > strictly deductive nature of traditional European logic. Here > the question is not, ?Given these premisses, what follows?? > but rather ?How can we get the right premisses?? And it is > the function of the udaahara.na to establish them. > The premiss being sought is always a necessary relation; > purely extensional or accidental universality, like ?all > chairs here are brown? is not considered. This is already > suggested by Pra"sastapaada and explicitly stated by > Dharmakiirti. So this premiss, the general rule, must be a > natural or metaphysical law. > The two kinds of example represent two complementary research > strategies to find, confirm or reject such laws, e.g. there > is no smoke without fire. > Focusing our attention on smoky objects, we try to remember a > case when there was no fire nearby; and then focusing on > essentially non-fiery objects, we try to find a case when > there was still some smoke there. The stock example is very > suggestive. ?As in the kitchen? is clearly not a single case > of co-occurrence of fire and smoke, but refers to innumerable > observations, and furthermore the causal relation could also > be easily observed there. ?Not as on the lake? again suggests > many observations, and also helps to clarify the concept of > smoke ? for there may be dhuuma on the lake, in the sense of ?mist?. > Presenting this double strategy is a convincing way to prove > a general law; and in a debate it is a fair offer to the > opponent: try in both ways to find a counter-example! And if > you can?t, then accept my rule. > In a real debate this could be a long and complicated > process; that is why at the end it was very useful to recall > the other premiss (there is smoke on the mountain) and the > proposition (there is fire on the mountain) ? since they were > announced hours, perhaps days ago; and in the meantime the > meaning of smoke has also become more definite, so we should > now check if it was really smoke or only mist we saw. > > From toke_knudsen at MAC.COM Sun Feb 19 00:13:01 2006 From: toke_knudsen at MAC.COM (Toke Lindegaard Knudsen) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 06 19:13:01 -0500 Subject: Memorial service for David Pingree Message-ID: <161227077445.23782.11616888842056379766.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists. There will be a Memorial Service for David Pingree Friday, March 17 at 10 a.m. in Manning Chapel on the Main Campus of Brown University. All are invited to lunch after the service and to stay on to attend the Ancient Studies Conference on "Geography, Ethnography, and Perception of the World from Antiquity to the Renaissance" at the Brown Inn from March 17-19. Sincerely, Toke Lindegaard Knudsen From wmcox at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Feb 20 19:36:39 2006 From: wmcox at UCHICAGO.EDU (Whitney Cox) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 06 13:36:39 -0600 Subject: cidambaramaahaatmya Message-ID: <161227077447.23782.17260082901800165626.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear friends, I've recently learned that the Cidambaramaahaatmya, the section of the southern Skandapuraa.na that was the subject of Professor Kulke's 1970 monograph, has been printed. If anyone could share the bibliographical particulars of this edition or (even better) a xerox or etext of it with me, I would be very obliged. Please contact me off-list. Thanks very much, Whitney Cox From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Feb 21 13:20:36 2006 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 06 08:20:36 -0500 Subject: Pollet, Bhaktamala of Nabha Dass Message-ID: <161227077450.23782.3532150483267590136.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Arlo, I don't find any copy by the SOAS archival copy on OCLC. Center for Research Libraries in Chicago makes an attempt comprehensively to collect foreign (non-USA) dissertations, but it does not appear in its catalog either. The OCLC catalogue record does not indicate whether it contains a translation or a study only. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D., Senior Reference Librarian South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. >>> arlo.griffiths at LET.LEIDENUNIV.NL 02/21/06 5:11 AM >>> Dear colleagues, On behalf of Prof. G.N. Dash (Bhubanesvar), I am trying to get ahold of Gilbert Pollet, "Studies in the Bhakta Mala of Nabha Dass" (Ph.D. diss., School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, 1963) Does anybody happen to have a copy of this? Does it contain an edition of the Bhaktamaalaa? Does anybody know whether Pollet has also published this work commercially? It does not appear in any of the Dutch online catalogs. Thanks you very much. Arlo Griffiths From arlo.griffiths at LET.LEIDENUNIV.NL Tue Feb 21 10:11:44 2006 From: arlo.griffiths at LET.LEIDENUNIV.NL (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 06 11:11:44 +0100 Subject: Pollet, Bhaktamala of Nabha Dass Message-ID: <161227077449.23782.4309282034893315500.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, On behalf of Prof. G.N. Dash (Bhubanesvar), I am trying to get ahold of Gilbert Pollet, ?Studies in the Bhakta Mala of Nabha Dass? (Ph.D. diss., School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, 1963) Does anybody happen to have a copy of this? Does it contain an edition of the Bhaktamaalaa? Does anybody know whether Pollet has also published this work commercially? It does not appear in any of the Dutch online catalogs. Thanks you very much. Arlo Griffiths From vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE Tue Feb 21 13:59:30 2006 From: vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 06 14:59:30 +0100 Subject: Pollet, Bhaktamala of Nabha Dass In-Reply-To: <4614957E-BA0B-4880-8B88-AD69CAC9FE7F@let.leidenuniv.nl> Message-ID: <161227077455.23782.10988276044425785542.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, I phoned Prof. Pollet, and he told me that the thesis remained not published, but must be available for free copy at the SOAS. It includes a critical edition, a translation and a commentary of the Bhaktamaala. May I add this last reference by the same: "Vai.s.nava Sacred Places: References in the Bhaktamaala of Naabhaadaas", in Orientalia Lovaniensia Periodica 31, 2005, pp. 119-122. >Dear colleagues, > >On behalf of Prof. G.N. Dash (Bhubanesvar), I am trying to get ahold of > >Gilbert Pollet, ?Studies in the Bhakta Mala of Nabha Dass? (Ph.D. >diss., School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, >1963) > >Does anybody happen to have a copy of this? Does it contain an >edition of the Bhaktamaalaa? > >Does anybody know whether Pollet has also published this work >commercially? It does not appear in any of the Dutch online catalogs. > >Thanks you very much. > >Arlo Griffiths Dr. Christophe Vielle Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud Institut orientaliste Place Blaise Pascal 1 B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve BELGIUM Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 or 58 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) E-mail: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be From somadevah at AOL.COM Tue Feb 21 15:10:11 2006 From: somadevah at AOL.COM (somadeva vasudeva) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 06 15:10:11 +0000 Subject: Commercial Nagari font? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227077457.23782.9137586173653892987.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Many thanks for these improvements to Devanagari MT. Some further improvements might be called for before it can be used, I noted the following problems: cchr does not combine properly (k.rcchre.na), neither does "nghr (a"nghri). Somadeva Vasudeva On 17 Feb 2006, at 21:13, Blake Wentworth wrote: > For anyone who uses a Macintosh, and would like to have all the > conjuncts necessary for Sanskrit readily available to the > Devanagari-QWERTY keyboard, I have a nicely tweaked Devanagari MT > font that serves this purpose very well. It is free for anyone who > would like it: if you want a copy, please email me with "devanagari > font" in the title, and I'll send it to you. > --Blake > > Blake Wentworth > btwentwo at midway.uchicago.edu > (M) 773.771.0172 > (W) 773.834.9199 > The Divinity School > Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations > The University of Chicago > > > > On Feb 17, 2006, at 3:07 PM, Tony K. Stewart wrote: > >> Dear Prof. Hanneder: >> >> I would suggest that as a first step you consult the resource >> guide on fonts at the South Asia Language Resource Center, a >> collaborative effort of the US Department of Education's Title VI >> National Resource Centers for South Asia. The SALRC is located at >> the University of Chicago. >> >> See: http://salrc.uchicago.edu/ >> >> The font section is listed under "resources"": http:// >> salrc.uchicago.edu/resources/fonts/ >> >> Cheers, >> tony >> >> Tony K. Stewart >> Professor of South Asian Religions and LIteratures >> Dept. of Philosophy and Religion >> Campus Box 8103 >> North Carolina State University >> Raleigh, NC 27695-8103 USA >> ph. 919.515.6335 >> email >> >> On Feb 17, 2006, at 8:56 PM, Walter Slaje wrote: >> >>> ------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht / Forwarded message ------- >>> Datum: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 17:41:28 +0100 (CET) >>> Von: "Dr. Juergen Hanneder" >>> >>> Betreff: Weiterleitung an Indology >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Subject: Commercial Nagari font? >>> --text follows this line-- >>> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> can anyone recommend high quality Devanagari fonts for Sanskrit. >>> >>> I think that I have probably seen most of the free Nagari fonts >>> available and I am of course aware that some of them are quite >>> good. And, of course, looking at the glyph table of some of the >>> commercial fonts is slightly disappointing, but I have not yet given >>> up hope for more professional tools for printing. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Juergen Hanneder >>> University of Halle From r.mahoney at ICONZ.CO.NZ Tue Feb 21 14:01:25 2006 From: r.mahoney at ICONZ.CO.NZ (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 06 03:01:25 +1300 Subject: Pollet, Bhaktamala of Nabha Dass In-Reply-To: <4614957E-BA0B-4880-8B88-AD69CAC9FE7F@let.leidenuniv.nl> Message-ID: <161227077452.23782.16909143761748844871.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Arlo, On Tue, 2006-02-21 at 23:11, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > On behalf of Prof. G.N. Dash (Bhubanesvar), I am trying to get ahold of > > Gilbert Pollet, ?Studies in the Bhakta Mala of Nabha Dass? (Ph.D. > diss., School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, > 1963) > > Does anybody happen to have a copy of this? Does it contain an > edition of the Bhaktamaalaa? Details are available here: > Does anybody know whether Pollet has also published this work > commercially? It does not appear in any of the Dutch online catalogs. > > Thanks you very much. > > Arlo Griffiths Best, Richard -- Richard MAHONEY | internet: http://indica-et-buddhica.org Littledene | telephone/telefax (man.): ++64 3 312 1699 Bay Road | cellular: ++64 27 482 9986 OXFORD, NZ | e-mail: r.mahoney[use"@"]iconz.co.nz From J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK Wed Feb 22 09:55:23 2006 From: J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK (John Brockington) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 06 09:55:23 +0000 Subject: Something wrong with the WSC? In-Reply-To: <006101c63406$10962000$d554b59d@elte.hu> Message-ID: <161227077459.23782.5528818776000043169.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Ferenc Ruzsa wrote: > Friends, > > I am not allowed to speak at the 13th World Sanskrit Conference in > Edinburgh. This might seem a purely personal affair [and it is: living > in Budapest, it is not exactly nice to be cut off from an important > forum of communication with the scholarly community], but perhaps it > does have some general interest as well. > > 1. I offered a paper in which I intended to disprove the generally > accepted view according to which the cosmogonical myth of the > Puru.sa-suukta is Indo-European inheritance. > 2. It was rejected ? no reason given. This second statement is not accurate. Professor Ruzsa was informed that "it was judged that the subject matter of your abstract "Is the Cosmic Giant an IE myth?" was not sufficiently relevant to the concerns of a World Sanskrit Conference to be suitable for presentation at the 13th WSC; had we been organising a conference of Indo-European studies we would no doubt have welcomed it warmly (it is an indication of its nature that the only reference in your abstract was to Bruce Lincoln's Myth, Cosmos and Society)." Professor Ruzsa is of course still welcome to attend the conference like anyone else. John Brockington Professor J. L. Brockington Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies Asian Studies 7-8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW From athr at LOC.GOV Wed Feb 22 16:16:16 2006 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 06 11:16:16 -0500 Subject: Bhattah mirrors Message-ID: <161227077463.23782.15567641536254116763.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There is this most interesting book: John Patrick Deveney. Paschal Beverly Randolph : a nineteenth-century Black American spiritualist, rosicrucian, and sex magician. Albany: State University of New York Press, 1997. Randolph (1825-1874) was born out of wedlock in New York City, of a free African-American woman and a white father who did not hang around, but whom Randolph claimed to be a member of the distinguished Virginia family. (Deveney thinks this is not impossible but there is little proof.) He became quite successful over decades in the occultist world, as the book's subtitle indicates. One of the articles he produced and sold were "Bhattah mirrors," magic mirrors whose consecration seems to have involved sexual rituals and sexual fluids. Deveney thinks Randolph may have gotten some of his ideas on mirrors on a trip to the Near East in 1861-62 where he claimed to have contacted local occultist circles. (Randolph did travel in Europe and Deveney things it is possible he made a trip to the Near East and even made such contacts, but, unlike his European movements, it is undocumented.) D. says Randolph's ideas on this were confirmed by a book given him by William Gifford Palgrave, a Richard Burton-like figure who was successively a British Army officer in India, a Jesuit, and a diplomat in the British service. But this was in 1873 near the end of Randolph's life. So it appears to me the use of sexual rituals in consecrating them was more likely his own invention. Deveney knows of no such thing in Near Eastern magic. Anyhow, has anyone heard the _term_ Bhattah mirrors or anything like it? Of course, Bhatta can be a term of respect for Brahmins. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D., Senior Reference Librarian South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From ferenc.ruzsa at ELTE.HU Wed Feb 22 12:18:39 2006 From: ferenc.ruzsa at ELTE.HU (Ferenc Ruzsa) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 06 13:18:39 +0100 Subject: Something wrong with the WSC? Message-ID: <161227077461.23782.5391980667873005494.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Friends, I beg your forgiveness: I know this does not really belong here, but I was addressed personally, so I cannot avoid answering. Professor Brockington wrote: >> 2. It was rejected ? no reason given. > > This second statement is not accurate. It is. I quote in full the e-mail I received (06.02): ------- Dear Dr Ruzsa We regret to inform you that your Abstract ?Is The Cosmic Giant an IE Myth?' , having been examined by the Chairpersons, is not considered to be suitable for presentation at the 13thWorld Sanskrit Conference. We as organisers of the conference concur in their assessment. Yours sincerely Professor John Brockington (Chair) Paul Dundas (Secretary) ------- And I noted in my first posting already (directly under the line that Prof. Brockington referred to above) that >3. After inquiry for the ground of the decision in e-mail I was told that >"the subject matter ... was not sufficiently relevant to the concerns of a >World Sanskrit Conference." ***** Please, Naiyaayikas of the e-world! I have not received any feedback on my abstract on Nyaaya (posted 17.02); but it would be quite important for me to know if it really does not contain any new idea. So please, send me the name of the relevant book or article that has a similar view on old inference so that I may update my knowledge. Otherwise (this is a threat) I will write it in full... Thank you, Ferenc Ruzsa From e.demichelis at DIVINITY.CAM.AC.UK Wed Feb 22 20:26:03 2006 From: e.demichelis at DIVINITY.CAM.AC.UK (Elizabeth De Michelis) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 06 20:26:03 +0000 Subject: Bhattah mirrors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227077467.23782.657876505472184951.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Not about Bhattah mirrors, but if anyone is interested in this and related topics a book which probably discusses the intertwining of Indic and Western esotericism more fully than Deveney is: Joscelyn Godwin _The Theosophical Enlightenment_, SUNY, 1994 Ch 9 is all on diviniation through Crystals/ mirrors or 'scrying', the first part of CH 13 is on Randolph, but the book also discusses 18th c Orientalist beliefs and interests, Rammonhan Roy and the Theosophists' and their associates' roles in the 'turn East' of western esotericism. It is also a good read overall. Elizabeth De Michelis Dr Elizabeth De Michelis University of Cambridge Faculty of Divinity Tel +44-(0)1223-763015 West Road Fax +44-(0)1223-763014 Cambridge, UK CB3 9BS --On Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:16 -0500 Allen W Thrasher wrote: There is this most interesting book: John Patrick Deveney. Paschal Beverly Randolph : a nineteenth-century Black American spiritualist, rosicrucian, and sex magician. Albany: State University of New York Press, 1997. Randolph (1825-1874) was born out of wedlock in New York City, of a free African-American woman and a white father who did not hang around, but whom Randolph claimed to be a member of the distinguished Virginia family. (Deveney thinks this is not impossible but there is little proof.) He became quite successful over decades in the occultist world, as the book's subtitle indicates. One of the articles he produced and sold were "Bhattah mirrors," magic mirrors whose consecration seems to have involved sexual rituals and sexual fluids. Deveney thinks Randolph may have gotten some of his ideas on mirrors on a trip to the Near East in 1861-62 where he claimed to have contacted local occultist circles. (Randolph did travel in Europe and Deveney things it is possible he made a trip to the Near East and even made such contacts, but, unlike his European movements, it is undocumented.) D. says Randolph's ideas on this were confirmed by a book given him by William Gifford Palgrave, a Richard Burton-like figure who was successively a British Army officer in India, a Jesuit, and a diplomat in the British service. But this was in 1873 near the end of Randolph's life. So it appears to me the use of sexual rituals in consecrating them was more likely his own invention. Deveney knows of no such thing in Near Eastern magic. Anyhow, has anyone heard the _term_ Bhattah mirrors or anything like it? Of course, Bhatta can be a term of respect for Brahmins. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D., Senior Reference Librarian South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From swantam at ASIANETINDIA.COM Wed Feb 22 18:31:02 2006 From: swantam at ASIANETINDIA.COM (Maheswaran Nair) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 06 23:31:02 +0500 Subject: Something wrong with the WSC? Message-ID: <161227077465.23782.8474899919403048903.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello, I am not interfering for or against anyone. The Gaurava of the PaNCAvayava of the Naiyayikas was pointed out by the Advaitins centuries ago.See VedAntaparibhASA of DharmarajAdhvarIndra.There, it is clearly argued by the author that either of the triads-PratijNA,Hetu,UdAharaNa or UdAharaNa, Upanaya,Nigamana will do.His statement is-Vayam Tryavayave SthitAH=Advaitins rest on three limbs. Regards K.Maheswaran Nair Department of Sanskrit University of Kerala Thiruvananthapuram India ----- Original Message ----- From: Ferenc Ruzsa Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 5:48 pm Subject: Re: Something wrong with the WSC? > Friends, > > I beg your forgiveness: I know this does not really belong here, > but I was > addressed personally, so I cannot avoid answering. > > Professor Brockington wrote: > >> 2. It was rejected ? no reason given. > > > > This second statement is not accurate. > > It is. I quote in full the e-mail I received (06.02): > ------- > Dear Dr Ruzsa > > We regret to inform you that your Abstract ?Is The Cosmic Giant an > IE Myth?' > , having been examined by the Chairpersons, is not considered to > be suitable > for presentation at the 13thWorld Sanskrit Conference. We as > organisers of > the conference concur in their assessment. > > > Yours sincerely > > > > > Professor John Brockington (Chair) > Paul Dundas (Secretary) > ------- > And I noted in my first posting already (directly under the line > that Prof. > Brockington referred to above) that > >3. After inquiry for the ground of the decision in e-mail I was > told that > >"the subject matter ... was not sufficiently relevant to the > concerns of a > >World Sanskrit Conference." > > ***** > Please, Naiyaayikas of the e-world! I have not received any > feedback on my > abstract on Nyaaya (posted 17.02); but it would be quite important > for me to > know if it really does not contain any new idea. So please, send > me the name > of the relevant book or article that has a similar view on old > inference so > that I may update my knowledge. Otherwise (this is a threat) I > will write it > in full... > > Thank you, > Ferenc Ruzsa > From tony_stewart at NCSU.EDU Thu Feb 23 12:55:45 2006 From: tony_stewart at NCSU.EDU (Tony K. Stewart) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 06 07:55:45 -0500 Subject: South Asia Summer Language Study Abroad Message-ID: <161227077474.23782.5090491189369388567.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues: I am writing to alert you to new opportunities for students at the Undergraduate, Masters, and Doctoral levels to study language in intensive summer programs abroad. Languages include elementary, intermediate, and advanced instruction in Arabic, Bangla, Hindi, Punjabi, Turkish, and Urdu. The programs are sponsored by the Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs of the US State Department working through the Council of American Overseas Research Centers. Program details can be found at http://www.caorc.org/ or more specifically at http://www.caorc.org/ language/ Successful applicants will have all expenses paid, including air fares, room and board, excursions, and so forth. Please note that eligibility is limited to US citizens, but with no restrictions on institutional affiliation, discipline, or career path. Because of the international scope of the Indology list, I realize that this announcement will have no bearing for many of you, and for that I do apologize; but we seek to advertise as broadly as possible. All the best, tony Tony K. Stewart Director, Bangla Summer Language Institute, Dhaka & Executive Director and Chair of the Board of Trustees South Asia Summer Language Institute & Professor of South Asian Religions and Literatures Dept. of Philosophy and Religion Campus Box 8103 North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC 27695-8103 USA ph. 919.515.6335 email From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Thu Feb 23 14:08:37 2006 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 06 09:08:37 -0500 Subject: Summer Sanskrit @ Harvard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227077478.23782.16346685880063129938.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> After the spate of announcements of Summer programs, here a brief note on the oldest one among the Sanskrit ones (since 1990/1): Introduction to Sanskrit (June 26?August 18) Note also: Hindi: MW. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- Michael Witzel Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street , 3rd floor, Cambridge MA 02138 1-617-495 3295 Fax: 496 8571 direct line: 496 2990 < http://users.primushost.com/~india/ejvs/> From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Thu Feb 23 15:29:15 2006 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 06 09:29:15 -0600 Subject: Query Message-ID: <161227077480.23782.3007951534780360449.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear All: Can any of you suggest a relatively brief (50-100 pages) and reliable survey of Indian philosophical literature (not philosophy per se but philosophical texts) that I could use for a seminar on the history of Sanskrit literature? Thanks. Patrick Olivelle From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Thu Feb 23 11:12:12 2006 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 06 12:12:12 +0100 Subject: Something wrong with the WSC? In-Reply-To: <1140686131.43fd7d3370c3b@mail.sify.com> Message-ID: <161227077471.23782.973770527636276675.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I don't want to enter a debate as to whether Ferenc Rusza's paper should have been accepted by the WSC, and would also suggest that this aspect of the discussion might better be shifted to private communcation between Ferenc and the organisers. From what we have been presented with so far, there appear to be some divergent perceptions regarding the amount of information for the rejection that was or was not communicated to Ferenc Rusza, but this is really a matter on which discussion in a public forum like this cannot help any further. With regards to the content of the Nyaya abstract, however, I have a few reading recommendations that might also be of interest to other list-subscribers, and I am therefore posting this to the list. A relatively recent volume on "The role of the example in (dRSTAnta) in classical Indian logic", which has come out in Vienna (editors Katsura/Steinkellner, Wiener Studien zur Tibetologie und Buddhismuskunde 58, Vienna 2004), contains several papers on the topic especially of the example in Buddhist and other forms of Indian logic, and also (though less directly) on the role of the fourth and fifth of the pa?c?vayav??. The idea that examples are associated with metatheoretical reflections, which Ferenc Rusza also seems to drive at in his abstract, is in this volume quite poignantly put forward in Claus Oetke's paper "The Role of the Example in Ancient Indian Logic" (pp.175-195). Oetke outlines several ways in which examples can be considered as relevant for establishing/controlling the regularity of general hypotheses, some of which are similar to what Ferenc seems to have in mind. Oetke's paper is framed in an approach to Indian logic as sharing significant character traits with what is nowadays called "nonmonotonic reasoning" or "default reasoning", i.e. reasoning which operates on the assumption of normality conditions; this assessment has recently been called into question by John Taber [cf. his lengthy article "Is Indian Logic Nonmonotonic?", Philosophy East and West 4/2 (2004), 143-170; based on Oetke's "Ancient Indian Logic as a theory of non-monotonic reasoning." Journal of Indian Philosophy 24 (1996), 447-539. Cf. then again Oetke, "In which sense are Indian theories of inference non-monotonic?", Horin 11 (2005), 23-38]. The entire discussion contains many valuable ideas for a more sophisticated methodological approach to the issue of examples (in my opinion, a much more sophisticated approach than the distinction between deductive/inductive or extensional/intensional), and it sets the standard of reasoning quite high for future work in this area. There is much more on examples in the abovementioned volume (including, among others, an article by Ernst Prets on example and exemplification in early Ny?ya and Vai?e?ika that summarily presents the relevant textual materials). As far as I know, it represents the current stage of scholarship in this area. If Ferenc Rusza has difficulties gaining access to any of the materials I have referred to, I'd gladly supply some photocopies. Best regards, Birgit Kellner Alex Watson wrote: >Professor Nair points out that certain Advaitins held only three of the five elements of the PaNCAvayava to be required for the validity of an argument. Many other examples of non-Naiyaayikas who make such a point could be given. These do not weigh in favour of the unoriginality of Professor Ruzca's surprisingly rejected paper. His abstract already mentions that even later Naiyaayikas practically dropped the last two members. That all five are not necessary is of course not a new idea, but he goes on to offer a specific thesis for why they were included (given at the bottom of this message). This differs from the traditional explanation in terms of kevalaanvayin and kevalavyatirekin hetus. As to whether it differs from explanations already put forward in secondary literature, no one has yet pointed to other occurrences. > >Yours Alex Watson >(Please do not use this e-mail address to reach me, but rather: >alex_watson_uk at yahoo.co.uk) > > > >FR wrote: > The two kinds of example are generally justified with reference to those rather unusual cases where either of the two is not possible (kevalaanvayin, kevalavyatirekin). This explanation, although ingenious, is not fully convincing as it is extremely difficult to find a plausible example of a kevala-vyatireki li"ngam. We get closer to a possible answer once we get rid of the notion that the anumaana is but a contorted version of the very simple Barbara-type syllogism. Then we may recognise that the Nyaaya inference is essentially inductive and intensional, in contrast to the basically extensional and strictly deductive nature of traditional European logic. Here the question is not, ?Given these premisses, what follows?? but rather ?How can we get the right premisses?? And it is the function of the udaahara.na to establish them. The premiss being sought is always a necessary relation; purely extensional or accidental universality, like ?all chairs here are brown? is not considered. This is already suggested by Pra"sastapaada and explicitly stated by Dharmakiirti. So this premiss, the general rule, must be a natural or metaphysical law. The two kinds of example represent two complementary research strategies to find, confirm or reject such laws, e.g. there is no smoke without fire. Focusing our attention on smoky objects, we try to remember a case when there was no fire nearby; and then focusing on essentially non-fiery objects, we try to find a case when there was still some smoke there. The stock example is very suggestive. ?As in the kitchen? is clearly not a single case of co-occurrence of fire and smoke, but refers to innumerable observations, and furthermore the causal relation could also be easily observed there. ?Not as on the lake? again suggests many observations, and also helps to clarify the concept of smoke ? for there may be dhuuma on the lake, in the sense of ?mist?. Presenting this double strategy is a convincing way to prove a general law; and in a debate it is a fair offer to the opponent: try in > both ways to find a counter-example! And if you can?t, then accept my rule. In a real debate this could be a long and complicated process; that is why at the end it was very useful to recall the other premiss (there is smoke on the mountain) and the proposition (there is fire on the mountain) ? since they were announced hours, perhaps days ago; and in the meantime the meaning of smoke has also become more definite, so we should now check if it was really smoke or only mist we saw. > > > From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Thu Feb 23 13:20:19 2006 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 06 14:20:19 +0100 Subject: South Asia Summer Language Study Abroad Message-ID: <161227077476.23782.6573562461771025877.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Here could be something for those still on the list. Kenneth Zysk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony K. Stewart" To: Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 1:55 PM Subject: South Asia Summer Language Study Abroad > Dear Colleagues: > > I am writing to alert you to new opportunities for students at the > Undergraduate, Masters, and Doctoral levels to study language in > intensive summer programs abroad. > > Languages include elementary, intermediate, and advanced instruction > in Arabic, Bangla, Hindi, Punjabi, Turkish, and Urdu. > > The programs are sponsored by the Bureau of Educational and Cultural > Affairs of the US State Department working through the Council of > American Overseas Research Centers. Program details can be found at > http://www.caorc.org/ or more specifically at http://www.caorc.org/ > language/ > > Successful applicants will have all expenses paid, including air > fares, room and board, excursions, and so forth. Please note that > eligibility is limited to US citizens, but with no restrictions on > institutional affiliation, discipline, or career path. > > Because of the international scope of the Indology list, I realize > that this announcement will have no bearing for many of you, and for > that I do apologize; but we seek to advertise as broadly as possible. > > > All the best, > > tony > > Tony K. Stewart > Director, Bangla Summer Language Institute, Dhaka > & > Executive Director and Chair of the Board of Trustees > South Asia Summer Language Institute > & > Professor of South Asian Religions and Literatures > Dept. of Philosophy and Religion > Campus Box 8103 > North Carolina State University > Raleigh, NC 27695-8103 USA > ph. 919.515.6335 > email > From ball0332 at SIFY.COM Thu Feb 23 09:45:31 2006 From: ball0332 at SIFY.COM (Alex Watson) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 06 14:45:31 +0500 Subject: Something wrong with the WSC? Message-ID: <161227077469.23782.311978395746697690.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Professor Nair points out that certain Advaitins held only three of the five elements of the PaNCAvayava to be required for the validity of an argument. Many other examples of non-Naiyaayikas who make such a point could be given. These do not weigh in favour of the unoriginality of Professor Ruzca's surprisingly rejected paper. His abstract already mentions that even later Naiyaayikas practically dropped the last two members. That all five are not necessary is of course not a new idea, but he goes on to offer a specific thesis for why they were included (given at the bottom of this message). This differs from the traditional explanation in terms of kevalaanvayin and kevalavyatirekin hetus. As to whether it differs from explanations already put forward in secondary literature, no one has yet pointed to other occurrences. Yours Alex Watson (Please do not use this e-mail address to reach me, but rather: alex_watson_uk at yahoo.co.uk) > Hello, I am not interfering for or against anyone. > > The Gaurava of the PaNCAvayava of the Naiyayikas was pointed out by > > the Advaitins centuries ago.See VedAntaparibhASA of > > DharmarajAdhvarIndra.There, it is clearly argued by the author that > > either of the triads-PratijNA,Hetu,UdAharaNa or UdAharaNa, > > Upanaya,Nigamana will do.His statement is-Vayam Tryavayave SthitAH=Advaitins rest on three limbs. Regards K.Maheswaran Nair Department of Sanskrit University of Kerala Thiruvananthapuram FR wrote: The two kinds of example are generally justified with reference to those rather unusual cases where either of the two is not possible (kevalaanvayin, kevalavyatirekin). This explanation, although ingenious, is not fully convincing as it is extremely difficult to find a plausible example of a kevala-vyatireki li"ngam. We get closer to a possible answer once we get rid of the notion that the anumaana is but a contorted version of the very simple Barbara-type syllogism. Then we may recognise that the Nyaaya inference is essentially inductive and intensional, in contrast to the basically extensional and strictly deductive nature of traditional European logic. Here the question is not, ?Given these premisses, what follows?? but rather ?How can we get the right premisses?? And it is the function of the udaahara.na to establish them. The premiss being sought is always a necessary relation; purely extensional or accidental universality, like ?all chairs here are brown? is not considered. This is already suggested by Pra"sastapaada and explicitly stated by Dharmakiirti. So this premiss, the general rule, must be a natural or metaphysical law. The two kinds of example represent two complementary research strategies to find, confirm or reject such laws, e.g. there is no smoke without fire. Focusing our attention on smoky objects, we try to remember a case when there was no fire nearby; and then focusing on essentially non-fiery objects, we try to find a case when there was still some smoke there. The stock example is very suggestive. ?As in the kitchen? is clearly not a single case of co-occurrence of fire and smoke, but refers to innumerable observations, and furthermore the causal relation could also be easily observed there. ?Not as on the lake? again suggests many observations, and also helps to clarify the concept of smoke ? for there may be dhuuma on the lake, in the sense of ?mist?. Presenting this double strategy is a convincing way to prove a general law; and in a debate it is a fair offer to the opponent: try in both ways to find a counter-example! And if you can?t, then accept my rule. In a real debate this could be a long and complicated process; that is why at the end it was very useful to recall the other premiss (there is smoke on the mountain) and the proposition (there is fire on the mountain) ? since they were announced hours, perhaps days ago; and in the meantime the meaning of smoke has also become more definite, so we should now check if it was really smoke or only mist we saw. From falk at ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE Fri Feb 24 09:29:07 2006 From: falk at ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE (falk) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 06 10:29:07 +0100 Subject: IndoSkript Message-ID: <161227077482.23782.4873771460909746429.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> "IndoSkript - Eine indische Pal?ographie" The IndoSkript program is now available for downloading on http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~falk/ At the moment, only the Brahmi-related database is included. Kharosthi will follow soon. The database will be updated continously. We would very much like to get proposals from users about what needs to be included to fill lacunae. Only after the first couple of revisions will the context-sensitive helpfile [F1] receive an English counterpart. Please report if you face difficulties while installing. H. Falk From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Fri Feb 24 09:55:07 2006 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 06 10:55:07 +0100 Subject: Query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227077484.23782.16571766740206731742.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:29:15 -0600 Patrick Olivelle wrote: > Can any of you suggest a relatively brief (50-100 pages) >and reliable survey of Indian philosophical literature >(not philosophy per se but philosophical texts) that I >could use for a seminar on the history of Sanskrit >literature? Thanks. In the seventies Hajime Nakamura published an useful survey of this kind: Nakamura, Hajime: Religions and philosophies of India : a survey with bibliographical notes. - Tokyo : Hokuseido Press, 1973 (containing chap. 1 and 2, introduction and Brahmanism) Chapter 3 and 4 were published in typewriter typography: 3. Third Chapter: Hinduism. - Tokyo : Hokuseido Press, 1974 4. Fourth Chapter: Orthodox philosophical systems. - Tokyo : Hokuseido Press, 1973 Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Indologisches Seminar der Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 D-53113 Bonn Deutschland / Germany From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sat Feb 25 00:49:29 2006 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Stephen Hodge) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 06 00:49:29 +0000 Subject: dak.si.naa-patha Message-ID: <161227077486.23782.4827288563268764535.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> [Apologies for cross-posting] Dear Colleagues, I wonder if anybody can delineate for me the probable route of the dak.si.na-patha -- I am especially interested in the post-Mauryan / pre-Gupta period. Many thanks, Stephen Hodge From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Sat Feb 25 10:25:42 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 06 10:25:42 +0000 Subject: dak.si.naa-patha In-Reply-To: <002201c639a5$6c0b3a20$f36486d9@zen> Message-ID: <161227077488.23782.4760278181178609190.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I recall that Johannes Bronkhorst wrote about this, but I've looked through my files and I can't identify the reference. Might have been in the 1980s. Johannes Bronkhorst Dominik -- Currently in London or Cambridge. My calendar is at http://tinyurl.com/8rd2u Office address: Wellcome Centre at UCL, 210 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE, UK. My publications since 2000: http://tinyurl.com/9zxky On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, Stephen Hodge wrote: > [Apologies for cross-posting] > > Dear Colleagues, > > I wonder if anybody can delineate for me the probable route of the > dak.si.na-patha -- > I am especially interested in the post-Mauryan / pre-Gupta period. > > Many thanks, > Stephen Hodge > From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Sat Feb 25 15:33:27 2006 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 06 10:33:27 -0500 Subject: dak.si.naa-patha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227077491.23782.6576738534587978938.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> John C. Huntington, Professor (Buddhist Art and Methodologies) Department of the History of Art The Ohio State University Columbus, OH, U.S.A. Stephen and other interested parties: D.C. (Dipakchandra) Sircar coveerede a great deal of geography in his Indian Studies, Past and Present, Cosmography and Geography in Early Indian Literature Calcutta, University of Calcutta, F.p. 1967 This has been reprinted many times since then and may still be in print. Cheers to all John From rhayes at UNM.EDU Sat Feb 25 17:40:04 2006 From: rhayes at UNM.EDU (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 06 10:40:04 -0700 Subject: Something wrong with the WSC? In-Reply-To: <009d01c63a30$0a09e660$9ab7fea9@skknet.net> Message-ID: <161227077495.23782.4727275308784752755.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Sat, 2006-02-25 at 19:22 +0200, Plamen Gradinarov wrote: > To my knowledge, the idea of Nyaya inference being intensional and > inductive rather than extensional and deductive is as new as wrong. I'm not sure how old something has to be not be considered new, but this debate has been around for the last fifty years or so. What puzzles me is how people can still be debating this. By no stretch of the imagination can an Indian inferential schema qualify as deductive. It can at best offer evidence that a conclusion is probable, which is what makes it conform perfectly to the standard definition of inductive argumentation. Oetke and Taber and others have established this so well that the question will now be pretty much closed, at least until people forget their work. -- Richard Hayes Department of Philosophy University of New Mexico From silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Sat Feb 25 19:51:58 2006 From: silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Jonathan Silk) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 06 11:51:58 -0800 Subject: dak.si.naa-patha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227077497.23782.12462603378908688776.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >D.C. (Dipakchandra) Sircar ... Read: Dinesh (or Dines) Chandra. -- Jonathan Silk Department of Asian Languages & Cultures Center for Buddhist Studies Director of South & Southeast Asian Languages Program UCLA 290 Royce Hall Box 951540 Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540 phone: (310) 206-8235 fax: (310) 825-8808 silk (at) humnet.ucla.edu From plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG Sat Feb 25 17:22:21 2006 From: plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG (Plamen Gradinarov) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 06 19:22:21 +0200 Subject: Something wrong with the WSC? Message-ID: <161227077493.23782.5558274483704633463.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To my knowledge, the idea of Nyaya inference being intensional and inductive rather than extensional and deductive is as new as wrong. Udaharana doesn't prove the vyapti as expressed previously in the hetu, it only shows an example of invariable concomitance that can help the opponent (or the disciple) grasp the local nature of the general rule (its paksadharmata) rather than its universality. As for the real metalogical question at issue here, how do the Naiyayikas establish the universality of vyapti, the answer is: from practice (purvavat and sesavat) and Yogic perception, samanyatodrsta being one of the forms of it. In any case, correct inference is based on the relation between sadhana and sadhya universally established in the general rule by means other than anumana. Best regards, Plamen http://nyaya.darsana.org/topic71.html ***** Please, Naiyaayikas of the e-world! I have not received any feedback on my abstract on Nyaaya (posted 17.02); but it would be quite important for me to know if it really does not contain any new idea. So please, send me the name of the relevant book or article that has a similar view on old inference so that I may update my knowledge. Otherwise (this is a threat) I will write it in full... Thank you, Ferenc Ruzsa -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.0/269 - Release Date: 24.2.2006 _. From rhayes at UNM.EDU Sun Feb 26 17:20:09 2006 From: rhayes at UNM.EDU (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 06 10:20:09 -0700 Subject: Something wrong with the WSC? In-Reply-To: <003401c63ac3$4d784840$9ab7fea9@skknet.net> Message-ID: <161227077501.23782.11363060318873663580.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Sun, 2006-02-26 at 11:56 +0100, Plamen Gradinarov wrote: > I have honestly tried to harness all my Einbildungskraft to imagine > how a logical reasoning from a general premiss (atra dhumah tatra > vahnih) to an individual conclusion (parvato vahniman) can be called > inductive, and - frankly - failed. Deductive reasoning is that in which the conclusion is guaranteed if the premises are true. The Indian inference schema does not offer any such guarantees. Since it can provide only a probability and not a guarantee of the truth of the conclusion, it falls into the usual definition of inductive. -- Richard Hayes Department of Philosophy University of New Mexico From plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG Sun Feb 26 10:56:31 2006 From: plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG (Plamen Gradinarov) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 06 11:56:31 +0100 Subject: Something wrong with the WSC? Message-ID: <161227077499.23782.6853805018775577962.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> From: Richard P. Hayes Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 6:40 PM What puzzles me is how people can still be debating this. By no stretch of the imagination can an Indian inferential schema qualify as deductive. Dear Richard, I have honestly tried to harness all my Einbildungskraft to imagine how a logical reasoning from a general premiss (atra dhumah tatra vahnih) to an individual conclusion (parvato vahniman) can be called inductive, and - frankly - failed. So I would prefer to be a retrograde and safely consider Indian anumana a perfect example of deductive reasoning. As for the way we reach the first intuition (of the invariable concomitance of smoke and fire), it is from the repeated observation of their local coexistence as seen in the kitchen, etc. This first intuition (prathama paramarsa), although inductive, is not the inference itself. Inferental knowledge (anumiti) is rather defined as the third intuition (tritiya paramarsa) of the inferential mark; the second intuition being our seeing the smoke over the hill. Of these three intuitions, the first and the second are clearly examples of pratyaksa. It is only the third intuition that qualifies for the name of anumana. More about this, in my 1991 English translation of Tarka-kaumudi, The Moon-Light of Logic. Best regards, Plamen From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM Sun Feb 26 23:40:38 2006 From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 06 15:40:38 -0800 Subject: thread closed: Something wrong with the WSC? In-Reply-To: <005b01c63b0f$a4456f80$9ab7fea9@skknet.net> Message-ID: <161227077505.23782.831888294710615420.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> With thanks to all contributors, the "Something wrong with the WSC?" thread is now closed on the list. Jan Houben on behalf of the Indology Committee --- Plamen Gradinarov wrote: > Neither does Barbara. But we are not degrading > it to inductive reasoning because of that. All > universal judgements are true under certain > conditions. There might be conditions in the > universe or in our distant future where the > universal premise "All people are mortal" will > turn wrong. Aristotelian deductive logic is > operating under such unspoken - and mostly > unreflected - conditions, kind of a > psycho-anthropological implicate order. > > The same with Indian logic. In their > Lebenswelt, the hetu-vakya was deemed > sufficiently apodictic - and the guarantees > were provided from two valid sources: > successful practice and alaukika-pratyaksa. > While the Aristotelian logic in this sense is a > little bit lame - it doesn't rely on the Yogic > power of seeing the samanya-laksana and the > things as they are. European logic had to wait > for Husserl to introduce this pramana (the > Wesensshau = yogaja-pratyaksa) into > philosophical and methodological use. Indian > logic was transcendental and methodologically > ripe 2000 years before European logic to come > to the same considerations and metalogical > concerns. > > Best regards, > Plamen > http://nyaya.darsana.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard P. Hayes > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 6:20 PM > > The Indian inference schema does not offer > any such > guarantees. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG Sun Feb 26 20:02:56 2006 From: plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG (Plamen Gradinarov) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 06 21:02:56 +0100 Subject: Something wrong with the WSC? Message-ID: <161227077503.23782.7679998571934734072.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Neither does Barbara. But we are not degrading it to inductive reasoning because of that. All universal judgements are true under certain conditions. There might be conditions in the universe or in our distant future where the universal premise "All people are mortal" will turn wrong. Aristotelian deductive logic is operating under such unspoken - and mostly unreflected - conditions, kind of a psycho-anthropological implicate order. The same with Indian logic. In their Lebenswelt, the hetu-vakya was deemed sufficiently apodictic - and the guarantees were provided from two valid sources: successful practice and alaukika-pratyaksa. While the Aristotelian logic in this sense is a little bit lame - it doesn't rely on the Yogic power of seeing the samanya-laksana and the things as they are. European logic had to wait for Husserl to introduce this pramana (the Wesensshau = yogaja-pratyaksa) into philosophical and methodological use. Indian logic was transcendental and methodologically ripe 2000 years before European logic to come to the same considerations and metalogical concerns. Best regards, Plamen http://nyaya.darsana.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard P. Hayes Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 6:20 PM The Indian inference schema does not offer any such guarantees. From athr at LOC.GOV Mon Feb 27 22:51:40 2006 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 06 17:51:40 -0500 Subject: dak.si.naa-patha Message-ID: <161227077507.23782.11406672140232493732.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Have you checked the Schwartzberg Historical Atlas of South Asia? Allen From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Mon Feb 27 23:01:05 2006 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 06 18:01:05 -0500 Subject: Hindutva defeat sealed in CA Message-ID: <161227077510.23782.839474143107315132.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> With satisfaction we note that the long drawn out California battle has drawn to a successful close this afternoon, at 2 p.m. PST. Today?s meeting of the subcommittee of the Board of Education (SBE) has clearly come down on the side of reason and historical accuracy, with a vote of 5 : zero, The recommendations of the Dept. of Education were adopted without *any* changes. That means all the ahistorical and sectarian edits of the two Hindutva foundations were decisively thrown out. The ?persuasive? proposals of the 50 scholar?s letter and the second (Heitzman-Wolpert-Witzel) panel as well as the results of the Jan. 6 rout of S. Bajpai carried the day. Thus, the position of women is correctly stated in the edits as suppressed, the caste system and suppression of Dalits are back, polytheism (not ?God?) is back, and the Aryan migration is back. We now await the final decision of the full State Board on March 9. Incidentally, the funniest thing today was that one Hindutvavadin got up and read some ?Christian? quotations out of Steve Farmer?s dissertation on Pico that should have made Farmer a Bible thumping creationist -- only that those sentences were Pico?s, half a millennium ago, not Farmer?s. More later. Well, this great idea had been spread yesterday all over the Indian Civilization list at Yahoo. Funny, that Hindutvavadins always believe their own inventions and defamation... Sure enough, the ?real reason? for the Hindutva defeat was already foretold this morning by Dr.Kalyanaraman (though it was not written in his diffuse style, but clearly by a ghost writer): collusion between the CA Secretary of Education, who is on Harvard?s Board --I did not know that-- and the hate "mongering groups at Harvard." Almost as good as the Farmer 'quote' ! Conspiracies, conspiracies... Seriously speaking, we have been predicting the defeat of the Hindutva edits ever since the first reports of the irregular (and probably illegal) procedures at the meeting of Dec. 2 of the SBE?s Curriculum Commission reached us that day. The SBE just could not uphold the historically incorrect and obscurant edits made on that day, as pushed through by one of its Commissioners, in clear collusion with the Hindutva groups involved; we have reported on this least earlier. The signs on the wall were visible in the materials received during the informational meeting held at Sacramento on January 6, and when the revised edits were published by the staff of the Dept. of Education one week or two ago: almost all of the egregious and ahistorical edits have been taken out, and today?s procedures at Sacramento have reconfirmed that. In sum, this is a clear victory for reason and scholarship in the face of sectarian and politically motivated, right wing action groups. Their allegiance is elsewhere than in California and they instead aim at gaining political capital in India. No smiles today but deep anger on the faces of the Hindutvavadins, who openly admitted defeat, and smiles all around on the faces of the many groups opposing them. All who have participated in the process of combating this religio-political ideology and beating it back have good reason to be elated. One onslaught on the non-sectarian American education system has been defeated. However, we have to be ready for the next one. Hindutvavadins will (perhaps) learn from the blatant mistakes made this time, and they will begin concerted, if futile effort to change textbooks in Texas two years from now. Congratulations and thanks to all involved, all around the globe. Just occasionally, at least some of us have to get out of the Ivory Towner and take a stand. M.Witzel ________________________________________________________ I----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- Michael Witzel Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street , 3rd floor, Cambridge MA 02138 1-617-495 3295 Fax: 496 8571 direct line: 496 2990 < http://users.primushost.com/~india/ejvs/> From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Feb 28 12:48:42 2006 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 06 07:48:42 -0500 Subject: travel agency in Pune Message-ID: <161227077514.23782.12598818871830732658.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, A non-academic friend of mine is going to be spending about a week in Pune on business. Can someone recommend an agency or individual for a day's guided tour of the town and maybe nearby sights? Also, is Karachiwalla still the place to go there for crafts etc.? Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D., Senior Reference Librarian South Asia Team, Asian Division Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From Axel.Michaels at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Tue Feb 28 10:02:34 2006 From: Axel.Michaels at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 06 11:02:34 +0100 Subject: Hindutva defeat sealed in CA In-Reply-To: <5abca817b21ec86459440d7b972d47a8@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <161227077512.23782.5263970708985824363.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Good news! Michael Witzel schrieb: > With satisfaction we note that the long drawn out California battle > has drawn to a successful close this afternoon, at 2 p.m. PST. > > Today?s meeting of the subcommittee of the Board of Education (SBE) > has clearly come down on the side of reason and historical accuracy, > with a vote of 5 : zero, > > The recommendations of the Dept. of Education were adopted without > *any* changes. > > That means all the ahistorical and sectarian edits of the two Hindutva > foundations were decisively thrown out. The ?persuasive? proposals of > the 50 scholar?s letter and the second (Heitzman-Wolpert-Witzel) panel > as well as the results of the Jan. 6 rout of S. Bajpai carried the day. > > Thus, the position of women is correctly stated in the edits as > suppressed, the caste system and suppression of Dalits are back, > polytheism (not ?God?) is back, and the Aryan migration is back. > > We now await the final decision of the full State Board on March 9. > > > Incidentally, the funniest thing today was that one Hindutvavadin got > up and read some ?Christian? quotations out of Steve Farmer?s > dissertation on Pico that should have made Farmer a Bible thumping > creationist -- only that those sentences were Pico?s, half a > millennium ago, not Farmer?s. More later. Well, this great idea had > been spread yesterday all over the Indian Civilization list at Yahoo. > > Funny, that Hindutvavadins always believe their own inventions and > defamation... > > Sure enough, the ?real reason? for the Hindutva defeat was already > foretold this morning by Dr.Kalyanaraman (though it was not written in > his diffuse style, but clearly by a ghost writer): collusion between > the CA Secretary of Education, who is on Harvard?s Board --I did not > know that-- and the hate "mongering groups at Harvard." Almost as good > as the Farmer 'quote' ! Conspiracies, conspiracies... > > Seriously speaking, we have been predicting the defeat of the Hindutva > edits ever since the first reports of the irregular (and probably > illegal) procedures at the meeting of Dec. 2 of the SBE?s Curriculum > Commission reached us that day. The SBE just could not uphold the > historically incorrect and obscurant edits made on that day, as pushed > through by one of its Commissioners, in clear collusion with the > Hindutva groups involved; we have reported on this least earlier. > > The signs on the wall were visible in the materials received during > the informational meeting held at Sacramento on January 6, and when > the revised edits were published by the staff of the Dept. of > Education one week or two ago: almost all of the egregious and > ahistorical edits have been taken out, and today?s procedures at > Sacramento have reconfirmed that. > > In sum, this is a clear victory for reason and scholarship in the face > of sectarian and politically motivated, right wing action groups. > Their allegiance is elsewhere than in California and they instead aim > at gaining political capital in India. > > No smiles today but deep anger on the faces of the Hindutvavadins, who > openly admitted defeat, and smiles all around on the faces of the many > groups opposing them. > > All who have participated in the process of combating this > religio-political ideology and beating it back have good reason to be > elated. One onslaught on the non-sectarian American education system > has been defeated. > > However, we have to be ready for the next one. Hindutvavadins will > (perhaps) learn from the blatant mistakes made this time, and they > will begin concerted, if futile effort to change textbooks in Texas > two years from now. > > Congratulations and thanks to all involved, all around the globe. Just > occasionally, at least some of us have to get out of the Ivory Towner > and take a stand. > > M.Witzel > ________________________________________________________ > I----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------- > Michael Witzel > Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street , 3rd floor, Cambridge MA 02138 > 1-617-495 3295 Fax: 496 8571 > direct line: 496 2990 > > > < http://users.primushost.com/~india/ejvs/> From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Tue Feb 28 21:05:00 2006 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 06 21:05:00 +0000 Subject: [Indo-Eurasia] Romila Thapar and Michael Witzel - Outlook India (fwd) Message-ID: <161227077516.23782.13384213037643413941.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---Urspr?ngliche Nachricht--- From: "Steve Farmer" To: Subject: [Indo-Eurasia] Romila Thapar and Michael Witzel - Outlook India Dear List, A long Op-Ed piece in Outlook India, written by Michael and Romila Thapar, who is also on our List, just came out -- hot off the press: http://tinyurl.com/ma3qj Michael and I also plan to write a much longer post-mortem on events over the past months, aimed this time for US audiences not previously acquainted with the Hindutva movement. It will be fun to describe the smear campaigns, crazy chronologies, fake Dalit webpages, and other aspects of Hindutvaland for a US audience that never heard of the movement. Enjoy --- and repost widely! Steve Below is a plaintext version of the whole article. The last paragraph added at the end summarizes the decision yesterday. ****************** OPINION Creationism By Any Other Name? Hindu Americans have a legitimate right to a fair and culturally sensitive representation in public school curricula. However, no one has a right to distort the truth and push their own political agendas at the expense of American school children. ROMILA THAPAR, Michael Witzel The California State Board of Education (CSBE) is currently discussing a very controversial issue. In keeping with precedent, the CSBE has asked the community for suggestions in regard to the updating of school textbooks. As a result of the suggestions it received, unscientific, religious-based materials may be presented to public school children as historical facts. Unlike the recent controversies in Kansas, Pennsylvania and Ohio, what the CSBE finds itself involved in does not concern the Christian fundamentalists and intelligent design proponents one might expect. The religious fundamentalists in this case are Hindu. Initially, the goals of these pressure groups, known as Hindutva, seem benign and even righteous. They aim to rectify culturally biased and insensitive depictions of India and Hinduism in public school textbooks. Hindutva groups would like Hinduism - one of the world?s oldest major religions, with approximately 800 million adherents worldwide, to be treated with the same consideration and respect as Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism. Their organizers have managed to obtain a few thousand signatures from the 1.6 million South Asians in the US for support of petitions circulated through Hindu temples across the United States. If these reasonable changes comprised the full extent of the amendments being proposed by the Hindutva groups, there would be no controversy at all. However, many of the Hindu Americans that signed these petitions would be shocked to learn about other agendas being pushed - and the manner in which they are being pushed - by the Hindutva lobby, in their name. Some examples of outlandish published beliefs of these Hindutva groups include putting the age of the universe 155 trillion years ago, dating the first Indian civilizations to 1900 million years ago, the claim that all of modern human civilization began in India around 8000 BC, and that important cultural texts such as the Ramayana and Mahabharata -- which depict wars between humans and the incarnations of deities -- are historical texts to be understood literally rather than as stories with moral and religious truths to impart. Other claims pretend to be science such as the citation of satellite imagery of ancient riverbeds as proof of the existence of a mighty Sarasvati river in Vedic times, and that ancient Hindu scriptures contain precise calculations of the speed of light and exact distances between planets in the solar system. The figures used in these equations were derived from totaling the number of poetic verses in scriptural texts. This brings to mind the equally improbable claims of several Christian fundamentalist groups who believe NASA has evidence of the Earth completely stopping its rotation, corroborating the "Missing Day of Joshua" story in the Bible. Interestingly, the Hindutva lobby agenda being put forward contradicts "young earth creationism", in which Christian fundamentalists believe the origins of life on earth to be as described in the Bible and earth to be 6,000 years old. Coincidently, intelligent design and "young earth creationism" were being taught at a high school in Lebec, California, just north of Los Angeles, until public scrutiny of this effort was brought to bear last month and the school board of Lebec reversed this initiative. The American Hindutva lobby disguises its divisive political agenda in the language of inclusion, seeming to intend only to redress historical inequities by demanding the accurate representation of Hinduism in the American classroom. This is quite ironic in that the Hindutva movement in India is predicated on the subjugation of minorities and pluralism in society. In fact, the Hindutva lobby pressuring the CSBE is very closely allied to Hindu fundamentalists in both the US and India who are trying to propagate a revisionist history in Indian classrooms and political discourse. Their parent organization in India, a group known as the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) has a distinctly fundamentalist political agenda. The RSS and its political arm, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), gained power from moderate secular Indians by exploiting Hindu nationalist sentiments. The RSS in particular has been involved in several high-profile incidents of religiously motivated violence over the last twenty years, as reported by the New York Times. The BJP recently lost power in national elections in 2004 after ruling for six years. The former opposition Congress party is now going to great lengths to remove the Hindutva material inserted into school textbooks while the BJP was in power. These events relate directly to the current battle in the California Board of Education. As has been demonstrated by many political organizations working to gain power in their own countries, modest political victories achieved by like-minded people in the United States translate into donations from abroad and huge political capital at home. In 2004, many textbook changes proposed by Hindutva groups in Fairfax County, Virginia, were implemented without much outside scrutiny. Thus emboldened, these groups prepared to reapply their winning strategy in California. Tactically this made a lot of sense: it is one of the largest school systems in the country, with a large Indian (South Asian) American population, and its textbooks were up for review. The changes made in California, similar to the ones made in Texas and New York, have repercussions for school systems across the country. The publishers of school textbooks make changes based on the needs of their largest volume customers. Changes made to textbooks in the larger states filter down to those in smaller states. When the California textbooks came up for review last summer, a former professor of history, and Hindutva lobby sympathizer, was approached by one of the Hindutva foundations and later was appointed to an expert advisory board serving the CSBE. Interestingly, he did not disclose his previous relationships to the Hindutva groups to the CSBE at the time. In a recent front-page article, it was also disclosed that one of the Hindutva lobby groups was founded by the American branch of the RSS and the other was completely owned by a sub-sectarian Hindu temple group out of Austin, Texas also tied to the American RSS group. Neither of these facts was disclosed to the CSBE either. The Hindutva agenda, full of historically inaccurate, Hindutva-centric changes -- was forwarded along quietly, again with no outside scrutiny, as successfully as the agenda had been in Virginia. On November 5, 2005 word leaked out to the wider academic community. Our academic colleagues in this country, many of whom are Indian American, and those in India itself, strongly objected to the historical inaccuracies championed by the Hindutva lobby. Not only were the suggested revisions of the textbooks factually incorrect in many instances but there was also an attempt to explain away those aspects of traditional Indian society that are now a matter of critical concern to Indians in India. The textbook revisions whitewash the plight of women and the so called lower castes. Their history was reduced to "different" rights and education for women while the caste system was simply a division of labor. Approximately 150 scholars, specialists on South Asia from UCLA, Stanford, UC Berkeley, Columbia, Princeton, Yale, Harvard, The University of Florida, Cornell, Smith College, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and dozens of other well-respected schools, sent a letter to Dr. Ruth Green, the president of the California State Board of Education. As the full political ramifications of the fight they found themselves involved in became clearer, the CSBE paused to reconsider their course of action. Last month, in an attempt to further understand this complex issue, the CSBE asked one of us [Michael Witzel] to debate the issue in front of a few members of the board with their in house, Hindutva leaning Curriculum Committee expert, S. Bajpai. Many of the historical inaccuracies were debunked in face-to-face debate but the CSBE put off a final decision at this time. Our letter and actions have provoked a furious if not predictable response from the Hindutva lobby. Slurs such as "Nazi", "Hitler", "Racist", "Marxist", "Communist", "Hindu hater", "Race Traitor", "Christian missionary" and "Creationist" have been directed toward us. In light of the December 6 physical assault and beating up of University of Kansas religious studies professor, Dr. Paul Merecki, by religious fundamentalists, we have been forced to ask law enforcement to investigate death threats levied against some of us over this issue. When the political nature of their campaign was revealed, the Hindutva lobbyists based here in the United States hurriedly removed information from their websites and tried to cover up any evidence of their links to the RSS. Surely such desperate measures make their true intentions plain. We do not believe that the many Americans who signed petitions in support of these groups and causes condone them. The Hindutva lobby will undoubtedly persist in their efforts even if they are stopped in California. The fact that there are very culturally biased and insensitive passages regarding Hinduism in many textbooks provides their alibi. The authors of these chapters are often Bachelors or Masters level scholars, with no specialized training on India, whatsoever. In order to counteract this threat to the integrity of the material taught to our children, an international council of scholars, called The Academic Indology Advisory Council, (cf. http://www.indiantruth.org/ ) has been formed; it will offer its expertise to any school boards and publishers who may call on it, as a service to the field of Indian Studies. If, as the old saying goes, decisions are made by those who show up, we and like-minded Indian Americans are going to show up at every meeting. Hindu nationalists have a legitimate right to pursue their political agenda in India. Hindu Americans have a legitimate right to a fair and culturally sensitive representation in public school curricula. However, no one has a right to distort the truth and push their own political agendas at the expense of American school children. Why would we in the United States, implement textbook changes about India that India itself has rejected and is actively replacing? For the Hindutva lobby to successfully implement academically irresponsible, outright false material into textbooks would be to realize "victory without honor". It would be, in fact, a dishonor to the cultural and religious heritage it claims to cherish. Based on their lack of academic integrity, scholarship, and undisclosed links to Hindu fundamentalist groups based in India, no one can trust any of the Hindutva lobby?s claims anymore. The overarching issue here is once we accept one religious group?s agenda and beliefs to be taught in the public schools, it opens the door for every other group to do the same thing. Perhaps as educators, we should stick to teaching the facts, and allow the teaching of religion to be handled by the real experts: the parents, pastors and priests. Update: Yesterday, on Februrary 27, the Subcommittee of the California Board of Education has voted five to zero to throw out the Hindutva edits -- a final decision by the Board is expected during its meeting on March 8-10. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Indo-Eurasian_research/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Indo-Eurasian_research-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------------------------- Prof Dr Walter Slaje Hermann-Loens-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) Tel/Fax: +49-(0)3643 501391 www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor me studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII.