From acollins at GCI.NET  Tue Feb  1 11:45:46 2005
From: acollins at GCI.NET (Al Collins)
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 05 02:45:46 -0900
Subject: diacritics
Message-ID: <161227075813.23782.1672483426614919939.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Can someone recommend a simple MS Word add-on for Sanskrit diacritics, plus Vedic accents?  I had used NotaBene in the past, but am so used to Word now that I hesitate to switch back.

Al Collins




From rlamb at HAWAII.RR.COM  Tue Feb  1 17:18:23 2005
From: rlamb at HAWAII.RR.COM (rlamb)
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 05 07:18:23 -1000
Subject: difficult terms
In-Reply-To: <153c8114ceba.14ceba153c81@asianetindia.com>
Message-ID: <161227075808.23782.12904924206032587922.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

"Vratabandha" can be a limitation imposed as a consequence of a vow that
has been undertaken.

Ramdas Lamb
University of Hawaii

>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Greg Bailey" <greg.bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU>
>>To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 5:54 AM
>>Subject: Re: difficult terms
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Dear List,
>>>
>>>I am finally tying up the ends of my translation of the
>>>
>>>
>>Ga.nezapuraa.na.>
>>
>>
>>>A few terms are still puzzling.  Any help would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>>1.  vratabandha
>>>
>>>2.  netradvaara
>>>
>>>3. mantrasparza
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Greg Bailey
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>




From Axel.Michaels at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE  Tue Feb  1 08:39:04 2005
From: Axel.Michaels at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Axel Michaels)
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 05 09:39:04 +0100
Subject: difficult terms
Message-ID: <161227075800.23782.5647350143884141194.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Greg Bailey,

vratabandha is - in Nepal - a common synononym for upanayana: See my article
"Der versto?ene Sohn. Nepalische baalyogis und der deSaatanta-Ritus w?hrend
der Inititaion", in: B. Koelver (ed.), Formen kulturellen Wandels und andere
Beitr?ge zur Erforschung des Himalaya. Sankt Augustin: VGH
Wissenschaftsverlag, 1986, 189-224, which includes an edition and (German)
translation of a Vratabandhapaddhati as well as some elaborations on that
term and references to other manuscripts and publications.

If you have difficulties in getting a copy, do not hesitate to let it me
know: I can send you an off-print.

Best,
Axel Michaels

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Bailey" <greg.bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU>
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: difficult terms


> Dear List,
>
> I am finally tying up the ends of my translation of the Ga.nezapuraa.na.
>
> A few terms are still puzzling.  Any help would be much appreciated.
>
> 1.  vratabandha
>
> 2.  netradvaara
>
> 3. mantrasparza
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg Bailey




From swantam at ASIANETINDIA.COM  Tue Feb  1 10:45:05 2005
From: swantam at ASIANETINDIA.COM (Maheswaran Nair)
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 05 10:45:05 +0000
Subject: difficult terms
Message-ID: <161227075802.23782.6933448619620386821.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hello,
'Netradvaara' may be the two eyes which form part of the 'navadvaara' of the human body.(navadvaare pure dehe-BG)
K.Maheswaran Nair
Camp.OCHS,Oxford

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Bailey" <greg.bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU>
> To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 5:54 AM
> Subject: Re: difficult terms
>
>
> > Dear List,
> >
> > I am finally tying up the ends of my translation of the
> Ga.nezapuraa.na.>
> > A few terms are still puzzling.  Any help would be much appreciated.
> >
> > 1.  vratabandha
> >
> > 2.  netradvaara
> >
> > 3. mantrasparza
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Greg Bailey
>




From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE  Tue Feb  1 11:02:00 2005
From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje)
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 05 11:02:00 +0000
Subject: New Book on Colonial History
Message-ID: <161227075805.23782.10617408569840673247.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Just released in the Series "Indologica Halensis":

Oskar von Hinueber: Indiens Weg in die Moderne. Geschichte und Kultur im 19. und 20. Jahrhundert. [Indologica halensis. Geisteskultur Indiens.Texte und Studien.6.]Aachen 2005. 35,80 EUR. ISBN 3-8322-3647-3

Orders (also for review copies) can be placed online with Shaker Publishers:
http://www.shaker.de/Online-Gesamtkatalog/Booklist.idc?Reihe=275


Walter Slaje

-------------------------------------------
Prof Dr Walter Slaje
Hermann-Loens-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar (Germany)
Tel./Fax: ++49-(0)3643-501391
www.indologie.uni-halle.de




From treich at UCALGARY.CA  Tue Feb  1 17:36:26 2005
From: treich at UCALGARY.CA (Tamar Reich)
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 05 11:36:26 -0600
Subject: difficult terms
Message-ID: <161227075810.23782.7481890348819794219.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Could mantrasparza refer to the practice of nyaasa in Tantric ritual, in
which a person touches different parts of his body and utters a mantra,
thereby making different deities reside in these body parts?
Tamar Reich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Bailey" <greg.bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU>
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: difficult terms


> Dear List,
>
> I am finally tying up the ends of my translation of the Ga.nezapuraa.na.
>
> A few terms are still puzzling.  Any help would be much appreciated.
>
> 1.  vratabandha
>
> 2.  netradvaara
>
> 3. mantrasparza
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg Bailey
>




From greg.bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU  Tue Feb  1 04:54:53 2005
From: greg.bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU (Greg Bailey)
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 05 15:54:53 +1100
Subject: difficult terms
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.61.0501311732450.1560@anat-lws119>
Message-ID: <161227075795.23782.4645715976287028316.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List,

I am finally tying up the ends of my translation of the Ga.nezapuraa.na.

A few terms are still puzzling.  Any help would be much appreciated.

1.  vratabandha

2.  netradvaara

3. mantrasparza


Thanks,

Greg Bailey




From JBapat at OPTUSNET.COM.AU  Tue Feb  1 06:01:43 2005
From: JBapat at OPTUSNET.COM.AU (Jayant Bapat)
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 05 17:01:43 +1100
Subject: difficult terms
In-Reply-To: <BE2556CD.3056%greg.bailey@latrobe.edu.au>
Message-ID: <161227075797.23782.238353198009678832.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi Greg
The term Vratabandha is often used for the threading ceremony.
Regards
Jayant

At 03:54 PM 1/02/2005 +1100, you wrote:
>Dear List,
>
>I am finally tying up the ends of my translation of the Ga.nezapuraa.na.
>
>A few terms are still puzzling.  Any help would be much appreciated.
>
>1.  vratabandha
>
>2.  netradvaara
>
>3. mantrasparza
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Greg Bailey




From lnelson at SANDIEGO.EDU  Wed Feb  2 14:04:26 2005
From: lnelson at SANDIEGO.EDU (Lance Nelson)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 05 06:04:26 -0800
Subject: diacritics
In-Reply-To: <001001c50853$91750400$0200a8c0@anchorageak.net>
Message-ID: <161227075816.23782.15546703118070464564.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Al,

I'd recommend you check out Aksharamala, which I have found to be
quite a good program, fully compatible with MSWord 2000+.  See:

http://www.aksharamala.com

Cost is reasonable (about $40), and they provide prompt and helpful
tech support by email if you should need it.  Also handles most other
Indian languages.

Lance

On 1 Feb 2005 at 2:45, Al Collins wrote:

> Can someone recommend a simple MS Word add-on for Sanskrit diacritics,
> plus Vedic accents?  I had used NotaBene in the past, but am so used
> to Word now that I hesitate to switch back.
>
> Al Collins



----------------------
Lance Nelson
Theology & Religious Studies
University of San Diego




From silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU  Wed Feb  2 19:45:03 2005
From: silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 05 11:45:03 -0800
Subject: paNamaNi
In-Reply-To: <5FA95E40EE2AD51190380090272724BB5D73D3@humxsrv1.hum.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <161227075820.23782.9407462648455214756.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A simple note:

>  A later Indian commentary by
JayAnanda

It is very dubious whether JayAnanda may really be considered an
Indian as such, at least in this conext; although referred to as a
Kashmiri, the cy. to which Ulrich refers appears to have been written
either in Tibet or even in the Tangut country. See Leonard v d Kuijp
in Central Asiatic Journal 1993: 188-197.
--
Jonathan Silk
Department of Asian Languages & Cultures
Center for Buddhist Studies
UCLA
290 Royce Hall
Box 951540
Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540
phone: (310)206-8235
fax:  (310)825-8808
silk at humnet.ucla.edu




From mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU  Wed Feb  2 22:38:35 2005
From: mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 05 16:38:35 -0600
Subject: paNamaNi
In-Reply-To: <p06002001be26dd11518e@[169.232.224.142]>
Message-ID: <161227075824.23782.11699029875909655367.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In response to Jonathan Silk's comment:
if an Indian travelled, was he thereby no longer
Indian "as such"?

JayAnanda's comm. was likely composed in Xixia,
according to the colophon, but the author was
a visiting professor from abroad.

One wonders: was Foucault no longer French "as such"
when he lectured in the States?

Matthew Kapstein




From silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU  Thu Feb  3 01:18:27 2005
From: silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 05 17:18:27 -0800
Subject: paNamaNi
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0502021631450.15250-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <161227075831.23782.9970593524880843125.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Matthew wrote:
>In response to Jonathan Silk's comment:
>if an Indian travelled, was he thereby no longer
>Indian "as such"?
>
>JayAnanda's comm. was likely composed in Xixia,
>according to the colophon, but the author was
>a visiting professor from abroad.


As usual, I wrote in too much haste, and hence unclearly. What I
should have said refers not to JayAnanda's "identity" but rather to
the concerns and intellectual envirnonment within which he composed
his cy, and to which it might be imagined to, at least in part,
respond. A perhaps related issue is the language within which the cy
was initially composed. If I am not wrong, there is at least some
reason to think this may have been Tibetan ab initio.
Have I misunderstood Matthew's concern(s)?

JAS
--

Jonathan Silk
Department of  Asian Languages & Cultures
Center for Buddhist Studies
UCLA
290 Royce Hall
Box 951540
Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540
phone: (310)206-8235
fax:  (310)825-8808
silk at humnet.ucla.edu




From athr at LOC.GOV  Wed Feb  2 22:38:23 2005
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 05 17:38:23 -0500
Subject: paNamaNi
Message-ID: <161227075826.23782.4110091565771602485.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It may refer in part to the real and visible markings on snakes, but I
seem to remember from ancient Middle Eastern and Greek art that there
are representations of snakes with a jewel-shaped appendage on the top
of the head.  (The same for griffins.)  I have never pursued the source
of this.  On the other hand, I can't remember any artistic
representations of snakes in India, whether sculpture or painting, that
have this.  But I feel little confidence about either the remembrance or
failure to remember.  I think the jewels are supposed to be luminous,
which would mean they were outside the head.  Miniatures of nAyikAs
going out in the fearful night might show snakes and indicate if the
latter had such gems.  There may be a note about the matter in Ingalls'
Anthology of Sanskrit Court Poetry.

The classic sources on snake lore would be:

Jean-Philippe Vogel. Indian serpent-lore.  London: Probsthain, 1926
James Fergusson. Tree and serpent worship.  2nd ed. London: India
Museum, 1876

Also very interesting-sounding, but perhaps not helpful, is:

Laurie Cozad. Sacred snakes : orthodox images of Indian snake worship.
Aurora, Colo. : Davies Group Publishers, 2004.
See the online Table of contents:
http://www.loc.gov/catdir/toc/ecip0416/2004007193.html

My library's copy of the latter is not yet available on the shelf.


Allen



Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
of Congress.




From athr at LOC.GOV  Wed Feb  2 22:45:04 2005
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 05 17:45:04 -0500
Subject: paNamaNi
Message-ID: <161227075829.23782.12054167198167003675.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

His renown likely wouldn't have been as great if he actually settled in
the States, and less if he took out citizenship.  We may be arrogant in
foreign policy, but there is still the cultural cringe.  ;>)

So likewise perhaps it was better to remain an Indian.  Double ;>)

Allen


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
of Congress.

>>> mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU 2/2/2005 5:38:35 PM >>>
In response to Jonathan Silk's comment:
if an Indian travelled, was he thereby no longer
Indian "as such"?

JayAnanda's comm. was likely composed in Xixia,
according to the colophon, but the author was
a visiting professor from abroad.

One wonders: was Foucault no longer French "as such"
when he lectured in the States?

Matthew Kapstein




From asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Thu Feb  3 03:36:44 2005
From: asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Andrew Glass)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 05 19:36:44 -0800
Subject: diacritics
Message-ID: <161227075833.23782.16912335904681442048.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

To type diacritics and accents used for transliterations of Indic texts
I would recommend you try using a unicode font and input system. There
are plenty of free fonts and free keyboard utilities available. You
should be able to find a solution that fits your needs provided you have
a modern operating system (Windows 2000, XP; Mac OX X.2; Linux). You can
find information on such things on various web pages including the Early
Buddhist Manuscripts Project's website.

http://depts.washington.edu/ebmp/software.php


Andrew Glass




From utkragh at HUM.KU.DK  Wed Feb  2 19:26:50 2005
From: utkragh at HUM.KU.DK (Ulrich T. Kragh)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 05 20:26:50 +0100
Subject: paNamaNi
Message-ID: <161227075818.23782.221560291342308645.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I would like some references in Sanskrit sources and/or secondary literature
on "the hood-jewel" (paNamaNi/phaNamaNi), i.e., the concept that there is a
jewel either on or inside the hood of the cobra. I imagine that this refers
figuratively to the characteristic drawings and dots found naturally on the
cobra-hood, but is there some more mythology associated with this concept,
and if so, where?

I have a dedication-verse by the Buddhist Madhyamaka-commentator
CandrakIrti, wherein merit (puNya) is compared to lit. "the hood-jewel on
the mind-snake" (verse extant only in Tibetan: "sems kyi sbrul la gdengs
ka'i nor bu", perhaps *cittAgapaNamaNi). A later Indian commentary by
JayAnanda attests a reading-variant as "the jewel of the day (i.e., the sun)
in the night of the mind" (also only in Tibetan: "bsam pa'i mtshan la nyin
gyi nor bu", perhaps *cittAktAdinamaNi).

With best regards,
Ulrich Timme Kragh
Post-Doctoral Associate, Harvard University




From acollins at GCI.NET  Thu Feb  3 07:22:14 2005
From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 05 22:22:14 -0900
Subject: diacritics
Message-ID: <161227075838.23782.9326300605404072862.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks to all who gave suggestions.  I successfully downloaded and installed a true type font that works.  Namaskaram.

Al Collins




From adheesh at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU  Thu Feb  3 04:42:28 2005
From: adheesh at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (adheesh sathaye)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 05 22:42:28 -0600
Subject: e-Monier Williams Dictionary for Macs
In-Reply-To: <p06010206be240263c046@[128.146.41.35]>
Message-ID: <161227075835.23782.4675434005120739411.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have been using Virtual PC recently for assembling a font
recommendations page [since I work on MAC OSX and most Unicode Open
Type Devanagari fonts are non-functional in OSX]. It does work, in the
sense that one indeed may run Windows applications inside a window in
Mac OSX, but it is often inordinately slow. Especially if you wish to
run any Mac programs at the same time. Furthermore, on occasion it has
caused my Mac to do something it would never otherwise do: crash. I
would recommend using this method sparingly.

Adheesh Sathaye
South Asia Language Resource Center
University of  Chicago


On Jan 31, 2005, at 10.08, John Huntington wrote:

> Dear List Members
>
> Elizabeth's message made me think (always a bad thing) of one
> possible solution.
>
> I have not tried this, but maybe someone else has,
>
> There is a Microsoft product called  "Microsoft Virtual PC for Mac"
> (at least three versions of it) that is reviewed as running PC
> software very well on a MAC.  If any one has tried this I would hope
> that he or she could could tell us all how it worked. There are both
> Sanskrit and Tibetan software for the PC that interest me, but I too
> am (so far) a Mac only person.
>
> John
>
>
>> Dear All
>>
>> I have tried installing some e-versions of the Monier Williams
>> Sanskrit
>> dictionary on my computer, but they were for PCs and as I am a
>> Mac-only
>> user I found they were not compatible with my Mac.
>>
>> One of the versions I tried (based on the Cologne Digital Sanskrit
>> Lexicon)
>> worked in all respects except - the resident IT expert tells me -
>> that the
>> fonts provided were not compatible with a Mac. Thus I do get access
>> to the
>> html pages (one for each letter of the alphabet), but the Sanskrit
>> characters show up as, for example, [khakAra]3[kha--kAra] rather than
>> in
>> correct transliteration or Devanagari.
>>
>> Would any of you be able to suggest:
>>
>> 1) how to get hold of a Mac-compatible font for the above programme
>>
>> AND / OR
>>
>> 2) Whether Mac-compatible e-versions of the MW exist, and how to get
>> hold
>> of them if they do.
>>
>> Many thanks for any suggestion
>>
>> With best wishes to you all
>>
>>
>> Elizabeth De Michelis
>>
>>
>> Dr Elizabeth De Michelis
>> University of Cambridge
>> Faculty of Divinity
>> Tel +44-(0)1223-763015
>> West Road
>> Fax +44-(0)1223-763014
>> Cambridge, UK      CB3 9BS
>>
>> for details of recently published book please see
>> http://www.divinity.cam.ac.uk/CARTS/dhiir/publications/modyoga.html
>




From plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG  Wed Feb  2 21:35:59 2005
From: plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG (Plamen Gradinarov)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 05 23:35:59 +0200
Subject: Phenomenology in Sanskrit
Message-ID: <161227075822.23782.14285675115479966656.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear list members,

I understand this is a neologism, but nevertheless wonder what would be the most likely candidate for the phenomenology of respectively Kant, Hegel, and Husserl:

- AbhAsavAda
- prapancavAda
- dRgviSayatAvAda
- AlokavAda
- vyanjanavAda
- prAdurbhAvavAda
- sAkSAtkAravAda

Regards,
Plamen




From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET  Thu Feb  3 07:25:01 2005
From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 05 07:25:01 +0000
Subject: paNamaNi
In-Reply-To: <p05100300be272bb7bf33@[128.97.158.55]>
Message-ID: <161227075840.23782.5680692961729347823.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I am completely mystified.  I appear to have received the emails from
only part of this thread, not including the original question.
Attempts to guess what it was about have failed.  (Snakes seem to
have come into it.)

Valerie J Roebuck
Manchester, UK

At 5:18 pm -0800 2/2/05, Jonathan Silk wrote:
>Matthew wrote:
>>In response to Jonathan Silk's comment:
>>if an Indian travelled, was he thereby no longer
>>Indian "as such"?
>>
>>JayAnanda's comm. was likely composed in Xixia,
>>according to the colophon, but the author was
>>a visiting professor from abroad.
>
>
>As usual, I wrote in too much haste, and hence unclearly. What I
>should have said refers not to JayAnanda's "identity" but rather to
>the concerns and intellectual envirnonment within which he composed
>his cy, and to which it might be imagined to, at least in part,
>respond. A perhaps related issue is the language within which the cy
>was initially composed. If I am not wrong, there is at least some
>reason to think this may have been Tibetan ab initio.
>Have I misunderstood Matthew's concern(s)?
>
>JAS
>--
>
>Jonathan Silk
>Department of  Asian Languages & Cultures
>Center for Buddhist Studies
>UCLA
>290 Royce Hall
>Box 951540
>Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540
>phone: (310)206-8235
>fax:  (310)825-8808
>silk at humnet.ucla.edu




From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU  Thu Feb  3 13:51:11 2005
From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 05 07:51:11 -0600
Subject: diacritics
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0502021936440.23712@hymn08.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <161227075847.23782.9358395735291615619.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Andrew:

I cannot enter the site without logging in, and I forget my password.
And there is no provision for new member sign up?? Thanks.

Patrick



>?To type diacritics and accents used for transliterations of Indic texts
>I would recommend you try using a unicode font and input system. There
>are plenty of free fonts and free keyboard utilities available. You
>should be able to find a solution that fits your needs provided you have
>a modern operating system (Windows 2000, XP; Mac OX X.2; Linux). You can
>find information on such things on various web pages including the Early
>Buddhist Manuscripts Project's website.
>
>http://depts.washington.edu/ebmp/software.php
>
>
>Andrew Glass




From lmfosse at CHELLO.NO  Thu Feb  3 08:16:38 2005
From: lmfosse at CHELLO.NO (Lars Martin Fosse)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 05 09:16:38 +0100
Subject: SV: e-Monier Williams Dictionary for Macs
In-Reply-To: <0213AD69-759E-11D9-B058-000D93C5A640@socrates.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227075844.23782.12575899851961600030.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Interestingly,

The experience given below concerning PC simulators on Macs exactly echo the
experience I made with such a program 8 years ago. It worked slowly, it was
unreliable, and it caused crashes. If the technology hasn't matured by now,
the best solution is probably to buy a PC if you really need a PC software
capability.

Lars Martin Fosse

 

From: 
Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse 
Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 
0674 Oslo - Norway 
Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax:  +47 850 21 250 
Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 
E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no 


 

> -----Opprinnelig melding-----
> Fra: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] P? vegne av 
> adheesh sathaye
> Sendt: 3. februar 2005 05:42
> Til: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Emne: Re: e-Monier Williams Dictionary for Macs
> 
> I have been using Virtual PC recently for assembling a font 
> recommendations page [since I work on MAC OSX and most 
> Unicode Open Type Devanagari fonts are non-functional in 
> OSX]. It does work, in the sense that one indeed may run 
> Windows applications inside a window in Mac OSX, but it is 
> often inordinately slow. Especially if you wish to run any 
> Mac programs at the same time. Furthermore, on occasion it 
> has caused my Mac to do something it would never otherwise 
> do: crash. I would recommend using this method sparingly.
> 
> Adheesh Sathaye
> South Asia Language Resource Center
> University of  Chicago
> 
> 
> On Jan 31, 2005, at 10.08, John Huntington wrote:
> 
> > Dear List Members
> >
> > Elizabeth's message made me think (always a bad thing) of 
> one possible 
> > solution.
> >
> > I have not tried this, but maybe someone else has,
> >
> > There is a Microsoft product called  "Microsoft Virtual PC for Mac"
> > (at least three versions of it) that is reviewed as running PC 
> > software very well on a MAC.  If any one has tried this I 
> would hope 
> > that he or she could could tell us all how it worked. There 
> are both 
> > Sanskrit and Tibetan software for the PC that interest me, 
> but I too 
> > am (so far) a Mac only person.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >> Dear All
> >>
> >> I have tried installing some e-versions of the Monier Williams 
> >> Sanskrit dictionary on my computer, but they were for PCs 
> and as I am 
> >> a Mac-only user I found they were not compatible with my Mac.
> >>
> >> One of the versions I tried (based on the Cologne Digital Sanskrit
> >> Lexicon)
> >> worked in all respects except - the resident IT expert tells me - 
> >> that the fonts provided were not compatible with a Mac. 
> Thus I do get 
> >> access to the html pages (one for each letter of the 
> alphabet), but 
> >> the Sanskrit characters show up as, for example, 
> >> [khakAra]3[kha--kAra] rather than in correct transliteration or 
> >> Devanagari.
> >>
> >> Would any of you be able to suggest:
> >>
> >> 1) how to get hold of a Mac-compatible font for the above programme
> >>
> >> AND / OR
> >>
> >> 2) Whether Mac-compatible e-versions of the MW exist, and 
> how to get 
> >> hold of them if they do.
> >>
> >> Many thanks for any suggestion
> >>
> >> With best wishes to you all
> >>
> >>
> >> Elizabeth De Michelis
> >>
> >>
> >> Dr Elizabeth De Michelis
> >> University of Cambridge
> >> Faculty of Divinity
> >> Tel +44-(0)1223-763015
> >> West Road
> >> Fax +44-(0)1223-763014
> >> Cambridge, UK      CB3 9BS
> >>
> >> for details of recently published book please see 
> >> http://www.divinity.cam.ac.uk/CARTS/dhiir/publications/modyoga.html
> >
> 




From plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG  Thu Feb  3 08:03:06 2005
From: plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG (Plamen Gradinarov)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 05 10:03:06 +0200
Subject: diacritics
Message-ID: <161227075842.23782.312264475104556279.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

There are many free fonts out there working with MS Word and pretending to
be Unicode compliant, but except for the Code2000, I still didn't see any
full-fledged Unicode font that will adequately cover both Deva and
diacritics on the Web. When I try to read the Sanskrit Wikipedia with Arial
Unicode MS loaded, what I see is totally misplaced ligatures and disjoined
duplets and triplets.

On the other hand, Mr. Ulrich Stiehl of www.sanskritweb.net has kindly
debugged Code2000 and is of the opinion that this is the most defective
Unicode font ever produced and should not be recommended to anyone.

So I am still in total puzzlement does any font properly process Deva and
diacritics for the Web (without destroyng one's Widows registry, as I was
told by such a distinguished font expert like Mr. Stiehl).

Regards,

Plamen

> Thanks to all who gave suggestions.  I successfully downloaded and
installed a true type font that works.  Namaskaram.




From mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU  Thu Feb  3 17:35:05 2005
From: mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 05 11:35:05 -0600
Subject: paNamaNi
In-Reply-To: <p05100300be272bb7bf33@[128.97.158.55]>
Message-ID: <161227075852.23782.16875496350226703996.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Jonathan,

The issue you raise regarding JayAnanda is one
that has been receiving some (not yet enough)
attention from those working on the transmission
of Indian Buddhism in 10th-12th c. Tibet.
I believe that it was Dan Martin who hit on the designation
of "gray texts" -- works whose credentials as Indian or Tibetan
are not perfectly clear, having been composed on the
margins of the two cultures, whether by Indian visitors to Tibet,
Tibetans in contact with India, or the interaction of the two.
Examples are legion and include many of Atisha's writings,
much of the 84 mahaasiddha corpus of Abhayadatta, the dohas
translated by Vairocanavajra, etc. etc. as well as various
works that are purely Tibetan apocrypha, such as the
*maayaadhvakrama attributed to "Niguma."

But part of the interest in this very considerable body
of material is that Indians really did contribute to it
in various ways, so that the testimony it affords regarding
things Indian cannot be discounted apriori. Much of JayAnanda's
comm. on Candrakiirti can probably be considered in this way.

Going back to Ulrich's original query, however, which concerns
an assuredly Indian figure of speech, might not the
serpent's hood-jewel mentioned here be the vi.saharatak.saka-
cuu.daartnaala.mkaara, mentioned by Kamalashiila (in TSP) and
others as an example of a valuable objective that is practically
impossible to attain? This seems to fit well with the context,
C's magnification of the merit of clarifying Naagaarjuna's
work (and no doubt he's the real naagaraaja in question).
So the markings of real cobras may not be at all at issue.

As to whether JayAnanda's alternative readings here and there have some
merit, perhaps the eventual publication of
the Skt ms of Madhyamakaavataara will shed some light on this.

Matthew Kapstein




From plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG  Thu Feb  3 14:17:38 2005
From: plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG (Plamen Gradinarov)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 05 16:17:38 +0200
Subject: diacritics
Message-ID: <161227075850.23782.2648089588428714359.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> I cannot enter the site without logging in, and I forget my password.
> And there is no provision for new member sign up?? Thanks.

You have to go to the main page, then select Downloads > Fonts and only then
get access to the fonts and the links.

I have just downloaded this one
http://depts.washington.edu/ebmp/downloads/gandhari-unicode-2.6.1.zip

P




From Axel.Michaels at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE  Thu Feb  3 17:41:05 2005
From: Axel.Michaels at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Axel Michaels)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 05 18:41:05 +0100
Subject: Hermann Berger passed away
Message-ID: <161227075855.23782.8872848132615711943.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The Indologist and Linguist Hermann Berger passed away on the 31st of
January 2005.  He was 78 years old.  Hermann Berger, who was Emeritus
Professor and former Head of the Department of Indology at the South
Asia Institute, Heidelberg devoted himself to the study of Indian
languages.  On completing his doctorate and his habilitation at the
University of Munich, after a period spent as Visiting Professor at the
Sanskrit College in Calcutta, he came to the University of
Heidelberg in 1964 and was active there till his retirement in 1993.  He
became the Director of the South Asia Institute in 1974/75,  the Dean of
the Fakult?t f?r Orientalistik und Altertumswissenschaften between
1979-81 and remained a member of the Heidelberg Academy of Sciences
starting 1981.

Hermann Berger was a fine and learned scholar who devoted his life and
his research to the study, in particular, of the endangered languages of
South Asia. His extraordinary knowledge of  Burushaski earned him international fame in the field
of linguistics. His expertise and painstaking work in documenting
Burushaski through many fieldtrips in the Karakoram region resulted in
the three volume standard work on this language. Inspite of chronic
health problems, the result of the war years, he engaged himself
energetically and with great success in teaching, in building up the
South Asia Institute and in encouraging research in the modern languages
of South Asia.

He will be long and fondly remembered by the faculty of the South Asia
Institute and his former students for his excellent research, his
committment to teaching as well as his gentle sense of humour and
humanity.

Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels
Direktor der Abt. Klassische Indologie; Sprecher des SFB 619 (Ritualdynamik); Sprecher des DFG-Kollegiums 106
S?dasien-Institut der Universit?t Heidelberg
Im Neuenheimer Feld 330
D-69120 Heidelberg
Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338
www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html
www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de




From vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET  Fri Feb  4 00:30:53 2005
From: vasubandhu at EARTHLINK.NET (Dan Lusthaus)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 05 19:30:53 -0500
Subject: paNamaNi
Message-ID: <161227075858.23782.16122171864611827846.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Matthew,

> perhaps the eventual publication of
> the Skt ms of Madhyamakaavataara will shed some light on this.

Does one exist?

Dan Lusthaus




From athr at LOC.GOV  Fri Feb  4 02:21:16 2005
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 05 21:21:16 -0500
Subject: paNamaNi
Message-ID: <161227075860.23782.9037240361894526852.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I think I remember there is a discussion of maNis  in the Amarakosa, and
the various places they come from (oysters, conchs, elephants, bamboo),
inc. snakes.  Perhaps the commentaries, and in particular those in
Tibetan, might be helpful.

Ingalls' Anthology does have a note on jewels in snake's heads, but it
is very brief and just refers to several poems where their luminosity is
used as a figure.

Allen


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
of Congress.




From J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK  Fri Feb  4 09:10:57 2005
From: J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK (J. L. Brockington)
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 05 09:10:57 +0000
Subject: Professor Ingalls's books
In-Reply-To: <001601c50a17$906ceb70$ddcbce81@SFB619Lap3>
Message-ID: <161227075863.23782.439822066255162777.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

Some of you may be interested in the following announcement, which I am
therefore taking the liberty of forwarding to the list.  For any
further information contact the bookseller.

Yours

John Brockington


Professor J. L. Brockington
Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies
Sanskrit, School of Asian Studies
7-8 Buccleuch Place
Edinburgh  EH8 9LW      U.K.
tel: +131 650 4174

-------

Ars Libri, Ltd. is is offering for sale an important Sanskrit library:

Sanskrit & Indian Studies: The Library of Daniel H.H. Ingalls.
1125 titles in ca. 1400 volumes

The library is for sale intact only. A complete catalogue is available
and will be sent to interested institutions upon application.

Ars Libri Ltd - John Rutter
500 Harrison Avenue
Boston MA 02118
617.338.5763 fax / 617.357.5212 tel
www.arslibri.com    jrutter at arslibri.com




From asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Sat Feb  5 07:19:07 2005
From: asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Andrew Glass)
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 05 23:19:07 -0800
Subject: diacritics
Message-ID: <161227075866.23782.11786894907042240589.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It is not necessary to have one font that renders both Devanagari and
diacritics in Latin text. What is necessary is to have a web browser
which can identify the different script sequences and use an appropriate
font.

I would recommend using Mozilla's Firefox to achieve this:
      http://www.mozilla.org/

If it is not already set up for you, you can adjust the font properties
to suit your choice of devanagari and diacritical fonts.

Tools > Options > Fonts & Colors
      Fonts for: Unicode (e.g., Arial Unicode; Gandhari Unicode )
      Fonts for: Devanagari (e.g., Mangal)

If you need help locating a Devanagari font David McCreedy's page may be
helpful:
     http://www.travelphrases.info/gallery/Fonts_Devanagari.html

Once the fonts are specified, one can visit Wikipedia, and with a little
luck, see both Devanagari and diacritics rendered correctly:

For example:
      http://students.washington.edu/asg/images/wikipedia.jpg
Which shows a screen shot of this page:
http://sa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%83%E0%A4%A4

While this screen shot was made using Firefox for the PC, the same
effect is equally be possible on Mac and Linux.

Andrew




From asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Sat Feb  5 10:34:49 2005
From: asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Andrew Glass)
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 05 02:34:49 -0800
Subject: diacritics
In-Reply-To: <000b01c50b65$c27cfa20$9ab7fea9@skknet.net>
Message-ID: <161227075871.23782.14055542398743449893.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Yes, indeed, I didn't spot that at first, now I understand the problem.

The fonts are not at fault here, the page is incorrectly encoded. The author of the page has used combining diacritics to render the underdots. This is perhaps a good way to proceed considering that one of the major serif fonts does not include s and t with dot below. However, combining diacritics need to be entered after the character they are to be placed below and not before. In the present example the encoding is:

A{U+0323}s{U+0323}t{U+0101}dhy{U+0101}y{U+012B}

U+0323 = COMBINING DOT BELOW
U+0101 = LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH MACRON
U+012B = LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH MACRON

If the placement of the combining dot below were switched to follow the characters in question, all would be well:

As{U+0323}t{U+0323}{U+0101}dhy{U+0101}y{U+012B}

or one could encode with precomposed forms:

A{U+1E63}{U+1E6D}{U+0101}dhy{U+0101}y{U+012B}

U+1E63 = LATIN SMALL LETTER S WITH DOT BELOW
U+1E6D = LATIN SMALL LETTER T WITH DOT BELOW

Indeed, it seems that Firefox is not as capable as IE when it comes to rendering Devanagari on Windows 98. Not sure what the solution to that would be. But presumably everyone who has Windows 98 and Firefox, also has IE.

Best wishes,

Andrew




From plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG  Sat Feb  5 09:33:02 2005
From: plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG (Plamen Gradinarov)
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 05 11:33:02 +0200
Subject: diacritics
Message-ID: <161227075869.23782.5220722991912049778.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> For example:
>       http://students.washington.edu/asg/images/wikipedia.jpg


Thank you, Andrew. You have supplied an example of misplaced diacritics.
Have a closer look at Astadhyayi.
BTW, Firefox is a disaster to use with Windows 98. (About 60% of the
visitors of my sites are still using W98)

Here is what FireFox does to Deva:
http://deva.indopedia.org/Devanagari_fonts.html

Regards,
Plamen




From plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG  Sat Feb  5 10:54:52 2005
From: plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG (Plamen Gradinarov)
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 05 12:54:52 +0200
Subject: diacritics
Message-ID: <161227075873.23782.15322324575676107816.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> The fonts are not at fault here, the page is incorrectly encoded. The
author of the page has used combining diacritics to render the underdots.

True. And the fonts are not correctly set in the CSS. When you start the
font sequence with Code2000 or Gandhari, everything is OK - all diacritics
is there. The problem is that these are not fonts to be used by aesthetic
grinders. :-)

> This is perhaps a good way to proceed considering that one of the major
serif fonts does not include s and t with dot below.

I am looking for Verdana. If not present, probably it would not be a problem
to extend it fontographically.

Best,
Plamen




From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Sun Feb  6 11:46:14 2005
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 05 06:46:14 -0500
Subject: Bhattoji Diksita's Vedaabhyaasasaara?
Message-ID: <161227075875.23782.18414128156457501331.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hello Indologists,

     While searching on Google, I came across a reference to the text of Vedaabhyaasasaara of Bhattoji Diksita edited by R.N. Patankar.  I could not open the link to it.  I have never seen this work.  If anyone has access to it, please let me know how I can get a photo-copy of it.  Best,

Madhav Deshpande




From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI  Mon Feb  7 08:33:59 2005
From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola)
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 05 10:33:59 +0200
Subject: Bhattoji Diksita's Vedaabhyaasasaara?
Message-ID: <161227075881.23782.4556712932149452309.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Madhav Deshpande wrote:
> Hello Indologists,
> 
>      While searching on Google, I came across a reference to the text of Vedaabhyaasasaara of Bhattoji Diksita edited by R.N. Patankar.  I could not open the link to it.  I have never seen this work.  If anyone has access to it, please let me know how I can get a photo-copy of it.  Best,
> 
> Madhav Deshpande

Patankar, R. N., 1947. (Ed.) Ved?bh?syas?ra of Bhattoji D?ksita. With 
introduction by P. K.   Gode. Bombay: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan. 8:o (26 
cm), 25 pp.

There is a microfiche in the Library of Congress, call number: 
Microfiche 93/61494 (B) So Asia.

Best regards, AP




From mittalsx at JMU.EDU  Mon Feb  7 17:34:50 2005
From: mittalsx at JMU.EDU (Sushil Mittal)
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 05 12:34:50 -0500
Subject: CFP: IJHS book symposium
Message-ID: <161227075883.23782.7729955186848545247.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Call for Papers

A special issue of the _International Journal of Hindu Studies_, planned for
December 2005, will assess Thomas McEvilley's _Comparative Studies in
Greek and Indian Philosophies: The Shape of Ancient Thought_.

This unparalleled comparative study of early Eastern and Western
philosophy challenges every existing belief about the philosophical
foundations of Western civilization. The author argues that the seemingly
autonomous and separate metaphysical schemes of Greek and Indian
cultures have mutually influenced each other over a long period of time, to
the point that today's Western world must be considered the product of
both Eastern and Western thought. His research systematically unveils
striking similarities between the early metaphysical ideas central to Eastern
and Western philosophies. The author explores in twenty-five chapters the
key philosophical paradigms of these cultures, such as Monism, the
doctrine of reincarnation in India and Egypt, and early Pluralism in Greece
and India, to show how trade, imperialism, and migration currents have
allowed these ideas to circulate and intermingle freely throughout India,
Greece, and the Near East. This study is based on early historical,
philosophical, spiritual, and Buddhist texts from 600 BCE until the era of
Aristotelian thought.

Choice magazine named the book one of the outstanding scholarly books
of 2002.

Article manuscripts are invited on any topic critically assessing _The Shape
of Ancient Thought_. The deadline to submit proposals is March 1, 2005.
The journal will provide a gratis copy of the book to the participants.

If you are interested to participate in this book symposium, please contact
Sushil Mittal at <mittalsx at jmu.edu>.




From athr at LOC.GOV  Mon Feb  7 20:21:01 2005
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 05 15:21:01 -0500
Subject: Bhattoji Diksita's Vedaabhyaasasaara?
Message-ID: <161227075885.23782.12371792783260638290.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Madhav,

Look at the LC online catalog.  We have microfiched it.  You can
request it on interlibrary loan.

Allen



Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
of Congress.

>>> mmdesh at UMICH.EDU 2/6/2005 6:46:14 AM >>>
Hello Indologists,

     While searching on Google, I came across a reference to the text
of Vedaabhyaasasaara of Bhattoji Diksita edited by R.N. Patankar.  I
could not open the link to it.  I have never seen this work.  If anyone
has access to it, please let me know how I can get a photo-copy of it.
Best,

Madhav Deshpande




From athr at LOC.GOV  Mon Feb  7 23:05:34 2005
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 05 18:05:34 -0500
Subject: paNamaNi
Message-ID: <161227075889.23782.14218270119812390518.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I see on the site that Ulrich links to that the writer thinks some of
the descriptions may apply to Tabasheer, aka Vegetable Opal.  If anyone
is interested, there is a description of tabasheer, and one may order it
at a reasonable price, at
<http://www.alchemy-works.com/herb_tabasheer.html>. I plan to get
some from curiosity as to its appearance, but I plan no tests of its
efficacy, though I suppose I could set a trap for a rattlesnake or
cottonmouth if I were really dedicated.

This is not directly related to Ulrich's question, but I find I was in
error in remembering jewels on the top of Greek representations of
snakes.  Elpis Mitropolou, Deities and heroes in the form of snakes
(Athens: Pyli Editions, 1977), passim, has a number of representations
of snakes with either beard or crest or both, but none with anything
jewel-like.  He seems to think (pp. 79-94, but I don't find him entirely
clear) that this may be related to Egyptian representations of snakes
with crowns and pharaonic false beards.  Greek griffins, at least the
bronzes of them, however, sometimes have a sort of knob on the head; but
they seem to be purely eagle-lion combinations, with nothing reptilian
about them.

Allen


It should be phaNamaNi, not paNamaNi.


Allen

Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
of Congress.




From athr at LOC.GOV  Tue Feb  8 00:43:12 2005
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 05 19:43:12 -0500
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
Message-ID: <161227075891.23782.5723722770317267013.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A Thai friend is trying to translate the poem on the Ring in the Lord of
the Rings into Thai, for a multilingual page of such translations.  She
asked me for help on what would be a good translation for "elves," since
Thai lore of supernatural beings is largely based on Indian.  The only
thing I could think of was gandharvas, since they are beautiful,
elegants, and sprightly, but they are erotic in a way in which elves (at
least Tolkien's) aren't. I am inclined to think there really isn't
anything much like elves, either Tolkien's or others'.  But does anyone
have any ideas?

Allen

Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
of Congress.




From silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU  Tue Feb  8 04:49:19 2005
From: silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 05 20:49:19 -0800
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
In-Reply-To: <s207c560.011@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227075893.23782.3268026535370172099.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Allen Thrasher wrote:

>. I am inclined to think there really isn't
>anything much like elves, either Tolkien's or others'.  ...

and added, as always,

>The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
>of Congress.


I am curious whether in this particular case the opinion does, in
fact, reflect the official position of the Library of Congress... And
if not, I suppose, what the official position is.

JAS
--
Jonathan Silk
Department of Asian Languages & Cultures
Center for Buddhist Studies
UCLA
290 Royce Hall
Box 951540
Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540
phone: (310)206-8235
fax:  (310)825-8808
silk at humnet.ucla.edu




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Tue Feb  8 04:53:46 2005
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk)
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 05 21:53:46 -0700
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
Message-ID: <161227075900.23782.2124623861742624308.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

How about _gana_s? As in followers of Shiva? They are always
represented in art as short, fat, and roly-poly, as well as a bit ugly.
Joanna Kirkpatrick
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen W Thrasher" <athr at LOC.GOV>
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 5:43 PM
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?


> A Thai friend is trying to translate the poem on the Ring in the Lord of
> the Rings into Thai, for a multilingual page of such translations.  She
> asked me for help on what would be a good translation for "elves," since
> Thai lore of supernatural beings is largely based on Indian.  The only
> thing I could think of was gandharvas, since they are beautiful,
> elegants, and sprightly, but they are erotic in a way in which elves (at
> least Tolkien's) aren't. I am inclined to think there really isn't
> anything much like elves, either Tolkien's or others'.  But does anyone
> have any ideas?
>
> Allen
>
> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
> Senior Reference Librarian
> Southern Asia Section
> Asian Division
> Library of Congress
> Jefferson Building 150
> 101 Independence Ave., S.E.
> Washington, DC 20540-4810
> tel. 202-707-3732
> fax 202-707-1724
> athr at loc.gov
> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
> of Congress.
>




From utkragh at HUM.KU.DK  Mon Feb  7 21:24:15 2005
From: utkragh at HUM.KU.DK (Ulrich T. Kragh)
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 05 22:24:15 +0100
Subject: paNamaNi
Message-ID: <161227075887.23782.10946296575346596286.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

First of all, thank you to everyone who replied to my inquiry about the
hood-jewel (paNamaNi) of the snake, especially to Allen Thrasher for his
helpful references and Timothy Cahill for his Indian story.

Having now looked at various sources, I am coming to the conclusion that a
hood-jewel refers to a "snake-stone" or "serpent-stone" (sarpamaNi), a stone
supposedly found inside the head of certain snakes, which has the power to
heal snakebites and other poisons. A snake-stone appears to be a well-known
phenomenon in many cultures, including celtic and other European cultures
and is also known in China. It is debated whether the stone actually comes
from the snake, as legend suggests, or whether it is a substance obtained
from the bamboo-plant.

For those interested, a longer, multi-cultural description can be found at
http://www.jjkent.com/articles/history-snake-stones.htm
with more pages following, if you click on the forward button at the end of
the page.

This leaves me with a questoin to the scholars of Indian medicine (Dominik
Wujastyk, Kenneth Zysk, ?) on this list: do we have any Sanskrit
descriptions of snake-stones (sarpamaNi/paNamaNi/phaNamaNi) and their use?
In particular, is there a passage that identifies the paNamaNi as the
"snake-stone" remedy against poisons?

My posting also spurned a longer discussion about JayAnanda's commentary on
the Buddhist CandrakIrti's MadhyamakAvatAra, since I characterized
JayAnanda's text as an INDIAN commentary. As noted by some of you, the
Tibetan colophon of the text states that it was translated by the Kashmirian
paNDita JayAnanda and the Tibetan translator kun dga' grags in Mi nyag gi
yul (Xixia), and in that sense, it may be more "indic" than "Indian", or
(who knows) even written directly in Tibetan without having been composed
first in Sanskrit.

This, however, is of lesser significance. The text is a word-by-word
commentary, which clearly comments directly on the Sanskrit text of
MadhyamakAvatAra, not following any of the Tibetan translations, because it
displays the word-order of the Sanskrit text and quite often uses slightly
different translations than found in the two Tibetan translations of
MadhyamakAvatAra. In that sense, it is a very useful tool for analyzing and
mentally reconstructing the Sanskrit text (as the Sanskrit text is not
available). Whether it is then to be called an "Indian" commentary or not
can be debated, as long as it is recognized to be a commentary on the Indian
text rather than on a Tibetan translation.

With best regards,
Ulrich Timme Kragh
Harvard University, post-doc




From annamisia at YAHOO.COM  Tue Feb  8 09:54:54 2005
From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Miska Pruszowska)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 05 01:54:54 -0800
Subject: elves?
Message-ID: <161227075903.23782.15381049463095756390.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Or the zAlabhaJjikAs? Like those seen on the toraNas
of Sanchi? Although they are mainly known from the
iconography and not from the literature, if I am not
mistaken. AND they don't really have a male
counterpart...


Anna Slaczka
Leiden University,
The Netherlands.



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page ? Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com




From mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU  Tue Feb  8 08:51:47 2005
From: mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 05 02:51:47 -0600
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
In-Reply-To: <a06110400be2e22b14e9e@[80.40.36.235]>
Message-ID: <161227075898.23782.2114802667589070371.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

aspects of yak.sa-lore seem relevant, too, particularly
associations with vegetation and wealth,
though they have a malevolent side which would
not do for Tolkein's elves (though perhaps accords
with the mythology more generally).
On this, of course, see Coomaraswamy.

And what of the vidyaadharas and siddhas, as known
in the epics? Elvish longevity and command of wonders
might incline one to favor the vidyaadharas here.

MK




From chrishaskett at YAHOO.COM  Tue Feb  8 13:07:52 2005
From: chrishaskett at YAHOO.COM (Chris Haskett)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 05 05:07:52 -0800
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
In-Reply-To: <s207c560.011@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227075908.23782.12760051441011893207.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I think my expertise here tends more toward the Tolkien and less the indic lore. Nevertheless, here's an idea  Allen's original criteria included:

The only
thing I could think of was gandharvas, since they are beautiful,
elegants, and sprightly, but they are erotic in a way in which elves (at
least Tolkien's) aren't.

Others have noted longevity, ugliness, short and roly-poly.  Only the first applies--the latter three are for dwarves, clearly vamana--unless one wanted to reserve that for hobbits, who are also short. Elves also needn't be only female.

I think to include longevity, exclude eroticism to some degree, and bring in some connection with forests and supernatural powers, perhaps vanadevatas would be the best bet.

Monier-Williams has vidhyAdharaH, apadevatA, vetAlaH, bhUtaH, rAkshamaH, and pizAcah for elf--please forgive my lack of familiarity with the transliteration.  See his English-Sanskrit dictionary page 221.   I still think vandadevata has something to say for itself.

Chris Haskett

University of Wisconsin-Madison




---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'




From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET  Tue Feb  8 08:25:30 2005
From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 05 08:25:30 +0000
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
In-Reply-To: <s207c560.011@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227075895.23782.14982246307962505133.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have been pondering this and similar questions from time to time,
ever since a colleague challenged me to translate "The Lord of the
Rings" into Sanskrit!  I rather quickly decided that life is probably
too short, especially since it would really require MahAbhArata-style
zlokas for the main narrative, with excursions into other metres for
the poetic set-pieces....  I too thought that gandharva might be the
best bet for 'elves', though it's unsatisfactory for the reasons you
state.  There are similar problems with the other kinds of non-human
peoples involved.

Are Peter Jackson's films screened in Thailand, or India, dubbed or
subtitled in local languages?  If so, how do they deal with this
problem?  That might provide some clues.

Valerie J Roebuck
Manchester, UK

At 7:43 pm -0500 7/2/05, Allen W Thrasher wrote:
>A Thai friend is trying to translate the poem on the Ring in the Lord of
>the Rings into Thai, for a multilingual page of such translations.  She
>asked me for help on what would be a good translation for "elves," since
>Thai lore of supernatural beings is largely based on Indian.  The only
>thing I could think of was gandharvas, since they are beautiful,
>elegants, and sprightly, but they are erotic in a way in which elves (at
>least Tolkien's) aren't. I am inclined to think there really isn't
>anything much like elves, either Tolkien's or others'.  But does anyone
>have any ideas?




From acollins at GCI.NET  Tue Feb  8 17:40:21 2005
From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 05 08:40:21 -0900
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
Message-ID: <161227075911.23782.4437435174169241507.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Elves not malevolent?
I don't think you have adequate control of your Tolkein text..  Elves can be quite fierce and are not always well disposed toward humans. (Silmarillion, esp.)
Al Collins

----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU>
Date: Monday, February 7, 2005 11:51 pm
Subject: Re: elves: Indic counterpart?

> aspects of yak.sa-lore seem relevant, too, particularly
> associations with vegetation and wealth,
> though they have a malevolent side which would
> not do for Tolkein's elves (though perhaps accords
> with the mythology more generally).
> On this, of course, see Coomaraswamy.
>
> And what of the vidyaadharas and siddhas, as known
> in the epics? Elvish longevity and command of wonders
> might incline one to favor the vidyaadharas here.
>
> MK
>




From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET  Tue Feb  8 11:43:23 2005
From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 05 11:43:23 +0000
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0502080244570.21105-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <161227075906.23782.2149600729121500625.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It's certainly easier to see Galadriel as a vidyaadharii than as an
apsaras (or a yak.sii).  But wouldn't the Wizards (as portrayed by
Tolkien, as semi-divine beings) perhaps be siddhas?

Valerie J Roebuck
Manchester, UK

At 2:51 am -0600 8/2/05, Matthew Kapstein wrote:
>aspects of yak.sa-lore seem relevant, too, particularly
>associations with vegetation and wealth,
>though they have a malevolent side which would
>not do for Tolkein's elves (though perhaps accords
>with the mythology more generally).
>On this, of course, see Coomaraswamy.
>
>And what of the vidyaadharas and siddhas, as known
>in the epics? Elvish longevity and command of wonders
>might incline one to favor the vidyaadharas here.




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Tue Feb  8 18:43:58 2005
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 05 11:43:58 -0700
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
Message-ID: <161227075916.23782.26948819720971054.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Since when are or were elves not also dwarves, i.e. small or short?  In
European folklore they are small, some cannot easily be seen, they are so
tiny. (I guess that trait would not suit a gana.) And since when were they
"beautiful" as opposed to, well, grotesque? Thus, besides gana, vaamana
could apply here. I didn't read Tolkien so don't know if his elves were
beautiful or not--if they were, they belonged to his own universe different
from that of elfdom of yore.
Thai folkore by the way has its fairies and they are female and beautiful.
They are often in art pursued by grotesque demons with fangs and horns.
Testosterone at work.
Many of those terms MW supplies as glosses for elf, in Indian folklore
referred to dangerous and/or deadly beings:  vetala, bhuta, rakshasa,
pishacha---demons and ghosts. Was that what Tolkien had in mind, O Tolkien
readers?
Vanadevata seems to make literal sense, but is it sufficiently Tolkieny?
What a fun project.
Best wishes
Joanna K.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```

> Others have noted longevity, ugliness, short and roly-poly.  Only the
first applies--the latter three are for dwarves, clearly vamana--unless one
wanted to reserve that for hobbits, who are also short. Elves also needn't
be only female.
>
> I think to include longevity, exclude eroticism to some degree, and bring
in some connection with forests and supernatural powers, perhaps vanadevatas
would be the best bet.
>
> Monier-Williams has vidhyAdharaH, apadevatA, vetAlaH, bhUtaH, rAkshamaH,
and pizAcah for elf--please forgive my lack of familiarity with the
transliteration.  See his English-Sanskrit dictionary page 221.   I still
think vandadevata has something to say for itself.
>
> Chris Haskett
>
> University of Wisconsin-Madison
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
>




From dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG  Wed Feb  9 00:09:50 2005
From: dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG (Dean Anderson)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 05 18:09:50 -0600
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
In-Reply-To: <009a01c50e0e$268d1b80$2930cece@charlie>
Message-ID: <161227075919.23782.8716720340941937947.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I can't think of a decent parallel from Indic languages that wouldn't be
misleading. I think I would use one of Tolkien's own words for the elves
like Sindari which sounds Indic but has no associations.

Tolkien's elves were based mostly on the Irish Sidhe or Shee, I believe.
Irish tradition holds that these were originally semi-divine beings who
had physical bodies of a sort but also magical powers and are most
commonly identified with the Tuatha De Danaan (but also the Fir Bolg and
Fomorians.) When the humans became dominant, the Sidhe were banished to
the otherworld/underground as they themselves had done to their
previously conquered enemies. Folklore holds that while they originally
appeared as powerful, tall, golden beings they gradually lost their
power and most of them became the small folk we think of as elves,
fairies and leprechauns who can now only create mere mischief with their
diminished powers.

I have always assumed, without doing too much research into it, that
Irish Sidhe is cognate with Siddha since they originally embodied
similar concepts of awesome, wise, but not always benign, magical or
spiritual beings. Any thoughts on this?

Dean Anderson




From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET  Tue Feb  8 18:32:35 2005
From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 05 18:32:35 +0000
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
In-Reply-To: <20050208130752.90220.qmail@web30806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227075914.23782.16414105293838950263.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Pace Monier-Williams, vetAla *certainly* doesn't mean elf--it's some
sort of undead spirit that animates corpses.   (Come to think of it,
it might do for 'wraith', and certainly for the things in the Dead
Marshes).

Valerie J Roebuck
Manchester, UK

At 5:07 am -0800 8/2/05, Chris Haskett wrote:
>I think my expertise here tends more toward the Tolkien and less the
>indic lore. Nevertheless, here's an idea  Allen's original criteria
>included:
>
>The only
>thing I could think of was gandharvas, since they are beautiful,
>elegants, and sprightly, but they are erotic in a way in which elves (at
>least Tolkien's) aren't.
>
>Others have noted longevity, ugliness, short and roly-poly.  Only
>the first applies--the latter three are for dwarves, clearly
>vamana--unless one wanted to reserve that for hobbits, who are also
>short. Elves also needn't be only female.
>
>I think to include longevity, exclude eroticism to some degree, and
>bring in some connection with forests and supernatural powers,
>perhaps vanadevatas would be the best bet.
>
>Monier-Williams has vidhyAdharaH, apadevatA, vetAlaH, bhUtaH,
>rAkshamaH, and pizAcah for elf--please forgive my lack of
>familiarity with the transliteration.  See his English-Sanskrit
>dictionary page 221.   I still think vandadevata has something to
>say for itself.
>
>Chris Haskett
>
>University of Wisconsin-Madison
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>  Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'




From aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA  Wed Feb  9 08:03:16 2005
From: aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 05 00:03:16 -0800
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
In-Reply-To: <a06110400be2e22b14e9e@[80.40.36.235]>
Message-ID: <161227075924.23782.7654443603079416397.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I would suggest that "elf" should be translated as "ilva". Such a
translation will not be only an imitation in sound, It would be digestible
to Thai. It will agree with Tolkien's spirit of creating new names and
identitiies. Most importantly, it *may* be a historical relative of "elf".
Note the associations found in the complex formed by the following words:

>?From expanded Apte:
ilavilaa 'name of the wife of Vi;sravas and mother of Kubera',

ailavila 'Kubera (who, as a yak.sa, is benevolent as well as malevolent and
is, I think, depicted as having a large belly); ;Si;supaala-vadha 13.18

eka(ka) 'ram'

>?From MW:

iliibi;sa 'name of a demon conquered by Indra (.Rgveda 1.33.12),

ilvala 'name of a daitya (the brother of Vaataapi' (Mahabhaarata,
Hari-va.m;sa, Vaayu Puraa.na),

iviilaka 'name of a son of Lambodara (= an epithet of Ga.ne'sa, who is a
dwarf and has a protruding belly)

Further, ilvakaa 'name of the five stars in the head of Orion
(M.rga-;siras)' may be based on a myth lost to us.

I also wonder if iliibi;sa mentioned above may have, through metathesis,  a
connection with "iblis,' Arabic for 'devil'.

ashok aklujkar




From aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA  Wed Feb  9 08:12:09 2005
From: aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 05 00:12:09 -0800
Subject: Correction: Re: elves: Indic counterpart?
In-Reply-To: <a06110400be2e22b14e9e@[80.40.36.235]>
Message-ID: <161227075926.23782.14124445320430597414.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Please read "ela(ka)" in the place of "eka(ka)" in my last post.

a.a.




From plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG  Wed Feb  9 06:44:23 2005
From: plamen at ORIENTALIA.ORG (Plamen Gradinarov)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 05 08:44:23 +0200
Subject: elves = siddhas?
Message-ID: <161227075922.23782.2450927980916261104.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Videhins are siddhas devoid of their gross material body and possessing
extraordinary powers due to their meditative absorption into the subtle
causal energies (indriyas, or noetic grahaNa) of the external sense organs.
Their body is called _causal_ because the _subtle_ is the cause for the
_gross_. Yet they are human beings, evolutionary degraded, just like the
elves, but still humans whose only soteriological duty is to perform
_asaMprjJAta-samAdhi_.

P.

From: "Dean Anderson" <dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG>
> these were originally semi-divine beings who
> had physical bodies of a sort but also magical powers...

> I have always assumed, without doing too much research into it, that
> Irish Sidhe is cognate with Siddha since they originally embodied
> similar concepts of awesome, wise, but not always benign, magical or
> spiritual beings.




From magier at COLUMBIA.EDU  Wed Feb  9 18:58:56 2005
From: magier at COLUMBIA.EDU (David Magier)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 05 13:58:56 -0500
Subject: Royal Takeover in Nepal
Message-ID: <161227075929.23782.18071161566544407620.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,
I have been asked to forward the attached posting, from noted Nepal 
journalist Kanak Mani Dixit (editor of the now-suspended Himal South Asia 
magazine), to your mailing list or listserv. I apologize for any unintended 
duplication. As the news blackout in Nepal and the shutting down of 
international communications have made such local perspectives hard to come 
by, I felt it appropriate to forward this note, even if it seems slightly 
off-topic for your list. Additional reports on the situation in Nepal have 
been trickling out, and I intend to create an information resource with 
SARAI to provide access to such coverage. I do apologize if this mailing is 
unwanted or intrusive.

David Magier
South Asia Librarian, Columbia University
and
Editor of SARAI (South Asia Resource Access on the Internet)
<http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/indiv/southasia/cuvl>

------------ Forwarded Message ------------
Date: Tuesday, February 1, 2005 4:06 PM +0000
From: Kanak Dixit <dixitkanakmani at hotmail.com>
To: magier at columbia.edu
Subject: Royal Takeover in Nepal (pls post!!!)

Royal Takeover in Nepal: Drastic and Ill-Advised

By Kanak Mani Dixit

When King Gyanendra sacked the prime minister and began direct rule on 1
February 2005, he said he did so under a constitutional provision which
enjoins the monarchy to uphold and protect the Constitution. While he
repeated many times in the royal address his commitment to constitutional
monarchy and multiparty rule, the king?s drastic action on Tuesday went
patently against those principles. Firstly, he was taking over as executive
monarch on the basis of a personal decision. Secondly, the royal address
was replete with castigating references to political parties, who are the
intermediaries for pluralism and democratic practice anywhere in the world.

King Gyanendra?s antipathy towards the political parties is well known and
has been often-expressed, but by sidelining them completely and planning to
rule as well as reign, the king has removed a buffer between himself and
the rough and tumble of politics. To that extent, he has taken a great risk
and put the institution of monarchy in the line of fire. Clearly, the king
believes that the risk is worth taking.

Which brings us to the matter of whether Narayanhiti Royal Palace has a
trump card vis-?-vis the raging Maoist insurgency. If such is indeed the
case and there is rapid movement towards tranquility, with the insurgents
being routed or laying down arms, the royal palace may be able to overcome
the turbulence it has introduced into the Nepali polity. Peace and an end
to the insurgency would put the monarchy back on the pedestal as a
respected institution, but everything depends on how soon that would
happen. At one time, the Maoists did announce that they would negotiate
only with Prime Minister Deuba?s ?master?, so are we to hope that now with
the king directly in-charge the Maoists will extend a hand? We can hope.

Further, the Royal Nepal Army?s fight against the highly motivated and
increasingly brutal insurgents thus far has been lackluster. Will the royal
palace?s direct control of national affairs mean that the military will now
put up a spirited fight, and also that its human rights record will improve
>From current levels? We will have to see.

What is clear is that this has been a radical step exposing the institution
of kingship to flak, when other approaches could have been tried. Such as
using the inherent powers of kingship to cajole the political parties to
work together and put up a political front against the insurgents. But the
king?s deeply held feelings towards the parties seems to have blocked off
this avenue towards resolution. The calls made since King Gyanendra took
over informally in October 2002 for an all-party government or revival of
the Third Parliament, all of which would have provided political challenge
to the Maoists on their home ground, are now for naught.

King Gyanendra?s announcement of a takeover for ?up to three years?
provides a long window in which Nepal?s highly successful experiment with
democracy of the last dozen years may be eroded. Unless there is a rapid
move towards resolution of the insurgency, it is also likely that the
Maoists will try to make common cause with the political parties. Although
it is not likely that the above-ground parties will go with the insurgents
as long as they hold on to the gun, it is certain that the royal action
will add strength to the insurgents? demand for a king-less republican
constitution and government, a call that has been taken up with alacrity
lately by many politicians.

It is inexplicable how the royal palace plans to attend to the criticism
that is bound to erupt in the domestic political arena as well as in the
international community. In castigating the political parties, King
Gyanendra preferred to hark back to the Parliament dissolved three years
ago, while keeping silent over interim period and rule through
palace-appointed prime ministers. This is the period when the peace and
security of the country?s populace plummeted more than previously.

In the speech, King Gyanendra highlighted the great contribution of the
Shah dynasty to the creation of the nation and ventured that he was
speaking for the ?janabhawana?, i.e. the Nepali people?s feelings. While it
is true that the desire for peace overwhelms all other political desires
among the people, the question arises whether the royal takeover was the
proper way to address the ?chahana? (desires). Rather than remonstrate at
the political parties? inability to work together and opt for the takeover,
it would have been a much more popular and realistic move for the king to
have used his prerogative as head-of-state to bring the bickering parties
together at this critical juncture.

In the end, unless King Gyanendra is able to come up with the trump card of
peace vis-a-vis the Maoists in the near term, one can conclude that his
unprecedented action of the First of February has exposed the historically
significant institution of Nepal?s monarchy to the vissictitudes of
day-to-day politics and power play. Did the Nepali monarchy deserve this at
this late a date in history?

Endnote: As I write this on Tuesday evening, the significant political
leaders are all under house arrest, the media (press, television, radio) is
under censorship, the fundamental freedoms have been suspended, a state of
emergency has been announced, telephones (landlines and cellular) as well
as Internet are down, and the Tribhuvan International Airport is closed.




From athr at LOC.GOV  Wed Feb  9 21:14:10 2005
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 05 16:14:10 -0500
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
Message-ID: <161227075931.23782.3913029870232465514.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Many thanks for the many suggestions, to Valerie, Matthew, Joanna,
Chris, Al, Dean, and Ashok, and thanks and apologies if I have omitted
anyone.  The question has obviously brought out the best in many. My
patron asks me to convey her appreciation to everyone.  I will broadcast
here what decision she finally takes.

About the size of elves:  The idea that elves and fairies are
necessarily small is largely due to Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's
Dream.  Many of the traditional stories and ballads about them treat
them as of human size or slightly taller than average.  They would
scarcely take away fullgrown humans as companions or lovers if they
weren't.   My books about Tolkien are packed up at the moment, but he
derived many aspects of them from various older sources, as far back as
the Norse.  He did NOT think of his mythology as being Celtic.  Part of
his motivation in writing all his material was that he thought England
(England derived from the Angles) suffered unlike other nations from the
lack of  a pre-Christian mythology, so he was writing what ought to have
existed.  He thought the King Arthur traditions failed to fulfil this
function precisely because they were mostly Celtic, and were British,
not English. (By the way, C. Scott Littleton in From Scythia to Camelot,
NY: Garland, 1994, argues that the Arthurian traditions are not
originally Celtic but originally Alan, i.e. Ossetic.But a lot of the
Alans finally settled down in Celtic Britanny.) Tolkien did, however,
want with to have elements of an atmosphere found in Celtic literature.


This is perhaps another obiter dictum, but when I was reading Ronald
Hutton, The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles: Their Nature
and Legacy, Oxford and Cambridge, MA: Blackwell, 1991, I was struck by
the fact that he didn't say a thing about fairies, elves, leprechauns,
brownies, et hoc genus omne. I tracked down his email and asked him
about that.  He said he did not think they were shrunken pre-Christian
gods, but were always petty tutelary spirits, closely linked to
particular spots, and not really part of "religion" at all, which was
why he omitted them from his book.  The main point of his book is that
we know practically nothing about the subject, and most of what is
repeated, whether by scholars or by religionists, has little or no
evidence for it.

Anyhow, many thanks again.


Allen



Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
of Congress.




From mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU  Wed Feb  9 22:19:19 2005
From: mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 05 16:19:19 -0600
Subject: Royal Takeover in Nepal
In-Reply-To: <72907CC52540DAA7CA127698@dyn-iab-163-135.dyn.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <161227075934.23782.2438234609502012541.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear David,

Thank you for forwarding this. I hope that
other subscribers to INDOLOGY will concur with me
that, because many of us have had long
and close contact with Nepal, the sharing
of information such as Kanak's report is,
during these very difficult times, invaluable.
Once you have your information resource up and
running on SARAI, please do circulate notice
of the fact.

with regards,
Matthew




From dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG  Wed Feb  9 22:48:07 2005
From: dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG (Dean Anderson)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 05 16:48:07 -0600
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
In-Reply-To: <s20a3749.096@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227075937.23782.14091760216865779240.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>My books about Tolkien are packed up at the moment, but he
>derived many aspects of them from various older sources, as
>far back as the Norse.  He did NOT think of his mythology as
>being Celtic.

While Tolkien did not think of his mythology as Celtic, he did however
draw from many Celtic influences in creating it. He also drew heavily
upon Nordic and Finnish sources, as you are probably aware.

Of course the identification of elves > Sidhe > siddhas is rather loose,
involving, as it does, a leap from India to Ireland after they had been
separated for thousands of years after the Indo-European diaspora and
then another leap from Irish myth to modern fantasy!

>This is perhaps another obiter dictum, but when I was reading
>Ronald Hutton, The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British
>Isles: Their Nature and Legacy, Oxford and Cambridge, MA:
>Blackwell, 1991, I was struck by the fact that he didn't say a
>thing about fairies, elves, leprechauns, brownies, et hoc
>genus omne. I tracked down his email and asked him about that.
> He said he did not think they were shrunken pre-Christian
>gods, but were always petty tutelary spirits, closely linked
>to particular spots, and not really part of "religion" at all,
>which was why he omitted them from his book.  The main point
>of his book is that we know practically nothing about the
>subject, and most of what is repeated, whether by scholars or
>by religionists, has little or no evidence for it.

Thanks for this interesting information. I can't agree with Hutton on a
couple of issues. First of all, one area of my research when I was in
Ireland many years ago focused on interviewing the local repositories of
these traditions following the practice pioneered by Evan-Wentz (The
Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries) and Lady Gregory's retellings of the
epics based on local traditions. The idea that some, at least, of the
Irish sprites were shrunken Celtic gods whose diminished stature
represented their loss of power to Christianity and modernism was
widespread among the local people. It would be interesting to trace this
tradition further and try to find its origin.

Secondly, I disagree with Hutton's omission of "petty tutelary spirits"
from the category of "religion" for a couple of reasons. First, is the
continued widespread propitiation of such spirits even today. In fact, I
was quite surprised to find that even among modern "sophisticated" Irish
the belief in the fairy faith predominated albeit mixed with Catholicism
and other beliefs. Second, is the common practice among many polytheists
in general, and Indo-Europeans in particular, to identify local spirits
as manifestations of more universal deities; for example, the dedication
of Irish wells to (St.) Brigid. We are all familiar with this practice
in India as well.

This highlights an issue which is also important to Indology: the
overemphasis on textual information to the exclusion of living
traditions. Recently this is starting to be addressed. For example, Axel
Michael's work _Hinduism_ takes account of local and oral traditions and
how they often differ significantly from the written "Brahminical"
traditions.

Dean Anderson


>Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
>Senior Reference Librarian
>Southern Asia Section
>Asian Division
>Library of Congress
>Jefferson Building 150
>101 Independence Ave., S.E.
>Washington, DC 20540-4810
>tel. 202-707-3732
>fax 202-707-1724
>athr at loc.gov
>The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the
>Library of Congress.
>




From athr at LOC.GOV  Wed Feb  9 23:22:50 2005
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 05 18:22:50 -0500
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
Message-ID: <161227075939.23782.16049349023819535220.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hutton didn't give me a definition of "religion," but I guess in his
opinion it applied  to the really big issues, and he didn't think the
tutelary spirits were involved in them in the way in which Thor and Odin
and Freya were.

The question of whether the native informants and the Irish literary
tradition regard them as shrunken deities or earlier inhabitants is not
quite the same thing as whether they really are such in their origin.
Hutton's point was that he thought they always had been small (in
importance, not dimensions).

There is also of course the belief that the leprechauns etc. were
angels who refused to take part in the war between Michael and Satan,
and were banished to the earth and diminished, to go to Hell at the Last
Judgment.  This is discussed in the chapter, "the Longaevi" in C.S.
Lewis's The Discarded Image.

A few years ago I began to investigate whether there was any belief
that the leprechauns or similar sprites from other European countries
had emigrated along with the humans.  I got bogged down and didn't
pursue it but it appears in some cases they may, and also that such
legends have fused with Native American beliefs in tutelary spirits of
small dimensions.  There was even a NA tribe on the US-Canada border
where the spirits were zealous Catholics and drove people insane who
used the tribal lodge for dancing during Lent. (Happy Ash Wednesday if
applicable.)

Allen


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
of Congress.




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Thu Feb 10 02:07:32 2005
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 05 19:07:32 -0700
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
Message-ID: <161227075942.23782.2056915046175675402.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Because nobody mentioned them, and perhaps they are part of the IE
inheritance, I tried looking for German elves etc. Here's an interesting
website that says a lot about how they look, their size, functions etc.
Perhaps Tolkien got some ideas from the 'Sage' tradition?
http://www.jadu.de/mittelalter/kobold/
Wassergeister, Zwerge und Kobolde

Best, Joanna K.




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Thu Feb 10 02:32:04 2005
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 05 19:32:04 -0700
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
Message-ID: <161227075944.23782.16543720929918488987.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This site also seems useful:
http://www.sungaya.de/schwarz/allmende/kobold/kobold.htm
there is also a site for Zwerge.....but you have to get it from the A-z
link.

Like yakshas the Zwerge did have a king (see Nibelungen) and he controlled
great wealth:
"Wer einen solchen Zwergenk?nig ?berwindet, der wird zum Herrn des
Zwergenreichs mit seinem meist phantastischen Reichtum."
Best, Joanna

>




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Thu Feb 10 03:21:49 2005
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 05 20:21:49 -0700
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
Message-ID: <161227075946.23782.16705469583008106335.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>???From my German friend:

Well, according to this, the elves actually come from the germanic tradition
(old norse Alfar, anglo-saxon Aelf, Danish elve) in German first Alb (still
found in the word Albtraum, Alptraum, when you sleep and dream badly because
an elf is sitting on your chest and having his/her fun with you.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elfen
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alb_%28Geist%29
Elves are related to dwarfs (indeed, the English word for dwarf comes from
dwartalf (black elf), though both cousins do not like each other much.

The idea of 3 inch mini-humans living in flowers is not Germanic--elves and
dwarfs are significantly smaller than average humans, but not toy-like.

Now I will be quiet :)
Joanna k.




From vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE  Thu Feb 10 09:55:44 2005
From: vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 05 10:55:44 +0100
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
In-Reply-To: <005c01c50f1f$a8cd8050$2930cece@charlie>
Message-ID: <161227075948.23782.10441718765047078839.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It should be noted here that a Indo-European lexico-mythological
correspondance between the Germanic *alf (? cf. also Gand?lfr, name of a
king in the V?lusp? - I found that in Simek's Lexikon der germanischen
Mythologie, with bibliography  - so even the Tolkienian wizards could be
seen as "cousins" with the elves and dwarves), on the one hand,
and the Vedic  .rbhu, on the other hand,  was established by Adalbert Kuhn
already in 1855 (KZ 4, 103-20, p.113, cf. Wackernagel, KZ 24, p. 297,
Brugmann, Gundriss vol. 2, p. 298), followed by H. Oldenberg (Die Religion
des Veda, Berlin, 1894, pp. 64, 238, 452, 454), A.A. Macdonell (Vedic
Mythology, Strassburg, 1897, p. 133-34) and, more recently, J. Haudry, but
rejected by A. Bergaigne (La religion v?dique, Paris, 1897, vol. 2, pp.
407-8), Alfred Hillebrandt (Vedische Mythologie, second revised edition
Breslau 1927-29, English translation Motilal, vol. 2, p. 87-88),
and on linguistic ground not accepted by M. Mayrhofer.
Some other references on the .Rbhus:
- F?lix N?ve, Essai sur le mythe des Ribhavas, premier vestige de
l'apoth?ose dans le V?da, avec le texte sanscrit et la traduction fran?aise
des hymnes adress?s ? ces divinit?s, Paris: B. Duprat, 1847 (sometimes
still available in India).
- A.W. Ryder, Die .Rbhus im .Rgveda, G?tersloh, 1901 (ref. found in
Hillebrandt).
- G. von Simpson, "Die .Rbhus im .Rgveda: Jahreszeiteng?tter oder
verg?ttlichte Handwerker?", ZDMG Supplement 3, 1977, pp. 955-63.


>From my German friend:
>
>Well, according to this, the elves actually come from the germanic tradition
>(old norse Alfar, anglo-saxon Aelf, Danish elve) in German first Alb (still
>found in the word Albtraum, Alptraum, when you sleep and dream badly because
>an elf is sitting on your chest and having his/her fun with you.
>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elfen
>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alb_%28Geist%29
>Elves are related to dwarfs (indeed, the English word for dwarf comes from
>dwartalf (black elf), though both cousins do not like each other much.
>
>The idea of 3 inch mini-humans living in flowers is not Germanic--elves and
>dwarfs are significantly smaller than average humans, but not toy-like.
>
>Now I will be quiet :)
>Joanna k.


Dr. Christophe Vielle
Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud
Institut orientaliste
Place Blaise Pascal 1
B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve
BELGIUM
Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home)
E-mail: vielle at ori.ucl.ac.be




From karp at UW.EDU.PL  Thu Feb 10 10:25:33 2005
From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 05 11:25:33 +0100
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
In-Reply-To: <l03130301be30cfbffe23@[130.104.243.146]>
Message-ID: <161227075950.23782.2551762470114674868.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In Polish tradition "small people" are called "krasnoludki", which can be
translated as "little red people". It may be of interest that they are
believed to have their homes either in or near toadstools (amanita muscaria).

Any connection of rbhus, gandharvas, vidyadharas with halucinogens?

Artur Karp

University of Warsaw

Poland


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From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU  Thu Feb 10 17:43:44 2005
From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John Huntington)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 05 12:43:44 -0500
Subject: Royal Takeover in Nepal
In-Reply-To: <72907CC52540DAA7CA127698@dyn-iab-163-135.dyn.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <161227075952.23782.11384404933932197089.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear David,

Please do not apologize for forwarding this to 
the list, on the contrary, thank you!
Kanik is a very important and thoughtful 
journalist and it is good to hear his opinion. 
Many of us in Sanskrit and Buddhist studies are 
deeply involved in Nepal in a variety of ways and 
want every bit of information we can get.

John


>
>
>By Kanak Mani Dixit
>
>When King Gyanendra sacked the prime minister and began direct rule on 1
>February 2005, he said he did so under a constitutional provision which
>enjoins the monarchy to uphold and protect the Constitution. While he
>repeated many times in the royal address his commitment to constitutional
>monarchy and multiparty rule, the king?s drastic action on Tuesday went
>patently against those principles. Firstly, he was taking over as executive
>monarch on the basis of a personal decision. Secondly, the royal address
>was replete with castigating references to political parties, who are the
>intermediaries for pluralism and democratic practice anywhere in the world.
>
>King Gyanendra?s antipathy towards the political parties is well known and
>has been often-expressed, but by sidelining them completely and planning to
>rule as well as reign, the king has removed a buffer between himself and
>the rough and tumble of politics. To that extent, he has taken a great risk
>and put the institution of monarchy in the line of fire. Clearly, the king
>believes that the risk is worth taking.
>
>Which brings us to the matter of whether Narayanhiti Royal Palace has a
>trump card vis-?-vis the raging Maoist insurgency. If such is indeed the
>case and there is rapid movement towards tranquility, with the insurgents
>being routed or laying down arms, the royal palace may be able to overcome
>the turbulence it has introduced into the Nepali polity. Peace and an end
>to the insurgency would put the monarchy back on the pedestal as a
>respected institution, but everything depends on how soon that would
>happen. At one time, the Maoists did announce that they would negotiate
>only with Prime Minister Deuba?s ?master?, so are we to hope that now with
>the king directly in-charge the Maoists will extend a hand? We can hope.
>
>Further, the Royal Nepal Army?s fight against the highly motivated and
>increasingly brutal insurgents thus far has been lackluster. Will the royal
>palace?s direct control of national affairs mean that the military will now
>put up a spirited fight, and also that its human rights record will improve
>>From current levels? We will have to see.
>
>What is clear is that this has been a radical step exposing the institution
>of kingship to flak, when other approaches could have been tried. Such as
>using the inherent powers of kingship to cajole the political parties to
>work together and put up a political front against the insurgents. But the
>king?s deeply held feelings towards the parties seems to have blocked off
>this avenue towards resolution. The calls made since King Gyanendra took
>over informally in October 2002 for an all-party government or revival of
>the Third Parliament, all of which would have provided political challenge
>to the Maoists on their home ground, are now for naught.
>
>King Gyanendra?s announcement of a takeover for ?up to three years?
>provides a long window in which Nepal?s highly successful experiment with
>democracy of the last dozen years may be eroded. Unless there is a rapid
>move towards resolution of the insurgency, it is also likely that the
>Maoists will try to make common cause with the political parties. Although
>it is not likely that the above-ground parties will go with the insurgents
>as long as they hold on to the gun, it is certain that the royal action
>will add strength to the insurgents? demand for a king-less republican
>constitution and government, a call that has been taken up with alacrity
>lately by many politicians.
>
>It is inexplicable how the royal palace plans to attend to the criticism
>that is bound to erupt in the domestic political arena as well as in the
>international community. In castigating the political parties, King
>Gyanendra preferred to hark back to the Parliament dissolved three years
>ago, while keeping silent over interim period and rule through
>palace-appointed prime ministers. This is the period when the peace and
>security of the country?s populace plummeted more than previously.
>
>In the speech, King Gyanendra highlighted the great contribution of the
>Shah dynasty to the creation of the nation and ventured that he was
>speaking for the ?janabhawana?, i.e. the Nepali people?s feelings. While it
>is true that the desire for peace overwhelms all other political desires
>among the people, the question arises whether the royal takeover was the
>proper way to address the ?chahana? (desires). Rather than remonstrate at
>the political parties? inability to work together and opt for the takeover,
>it would have been a much more popular and realistic move for the king to
>have used his prerogative as head-of-state to bring the bickering parties
>together at this critical juncture.
>
>In the end, unless King Gyanendra is able to come up with the trump card of
>peace vis-a-vis the Maoists in the near term, one can conclude that his
>unprecedented action of the First of February has exposed the historically
>significant institution of Nepal?s monarchy to the vissictitudes of
>day-to-day politics and power play. Did the Nepali monarchy deserve this at
>this late a date in history?
>
>Endnote: As I write this on Tuesday evening, the significant political
>leaders are all under house arrest, the media (press, television, radio) is
>under censorship, the fundamental freedoms have been suspended, a state of
>emergency has been announced, telephones (landlines and cellular) as well
>as Internet are down, and the Tribhuvan International Airport is closed.




From athr at LOC.GOV  Thu Feb 10 19:50:21 2005
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 05 14:50:21 -0500
Subject: Tavernier/Hope diamond :TV program tonight
Message-ID: <161227075955.23782.13182000756644806106.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The Washington Post today (Thursday, February 10, 2005), p. C5 has an
article on a Discovery Channel program to appear tonight at 9:00 PM
Eastern Time and to repeat tomorrow and Sunday.  It is on a computer
simulation that seems to show that the Hope Diamond in the Smithsonian
Institution is cut from the French Blue that was offered for sale in
London in 1792, and that the French Blue was cut from the Tavernier
Blue, the recut form of a jewel acquired in India by the jewel
merchant-traveler Jean-Baptiste Tavernier and sold by him to Louis XIV.
The computer showed that certain sides of each gem fit perfectly with
others in the older, larger one, so that the current shape of the Hope
diamond could be explained completely.  It also showed that the pieces
removed were not large enough to allow for there being any other large
blue diamonds derived from the Tavernier.

Allen



Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
of Congress.




From athr at LOC.GOV  Thu Feb 10 21:03:28 2005
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 05 16:03:28 -0500
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
Message-ID: <161227075957.23782.914758154032257299.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Artur Karp said, "In Polish tradition "small people" are called
"krasnoludki", which can be
translated as "little red people". It may be of interest that they are
believed to have their homes either in or near toadstools (amanita
muscaria)."

In Germany also, I think.  My nurse in Giessen  in 1947-48, when my
father was in the Occupation, did silhouettes and watercolors.  I have
one of a little white-bearded fellow in a red coat under an amanita.  He
also has ladybugs around him (small red beetles with black spots). While
we're on the latter, has anyone ever actually seen the red beetles or
bugs called indragopas?  Can one find a picture anywhere?

Allen


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
of Congress.




From gthomgt at ADELPHIA.NET  Thu Feb 10 21:34:38 2005
From: gthomgt at ADELPHIA.NET (George Thompson)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 05 16:34:38 -0500
Subject: elves: Indic counterpart?
In-Reply-To: <l03130301be30cfbffe23@[130.104.243.146]>
Message-ID: <161227075960.23782.16020843284769622656.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I myself am very sceptical about the identification of 'elf' and 'r.bhu'.
Beyond their obscurity, there is nothing "elvish' about the Rbhus.  In the
RV they are 'divine artisans', which amounts to saying that they are able to
create merely by speaking: "'let there be light', and there was light", as
it were.

They also have nothing to to with Orpheus, as far as I can tell.

Joel Brereton was presented a few papers on the Rbhus in recent years, but I
don't know whether he has published them yet.

Hillebrandt's discussion remains persuasive to me.

Best wishes,

George Thompson

-----Original Message-----
From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Christophe
Vielle
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 4:56 AM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: elves: Indic counterpart?


It should be noted here that a Indo-European lexico-mythological
correspondance between the Germanic *alf (? cf. also Gand?lfr, name of a
king in the V?lusp? - I found that in Simek's Lexikon der germanischen
Mythologie, with bibliography  - so even the Tolkienian wizards could be
seen as "cousins" with the elves and dwarves), on the one hand,
and the Vedic  .rbhu, on the other hand,  was established by Adalbert Kuhn
already in 1855 (KZ 4, 103-20, p.113, cf. Wackernagel, KZ 24, p. 297,
Brugmann, Gundriss vol. 2, p. 298), followed by H. Oldenberg (Die Religion
des Veda, Berlin, 1894, pp. 64, 238, 452, 454), A.A. Macdonell (Vedic
Mythology, Strassburg, 1897, p. 133-34) and, more recently, J. Haudry, but
rejected by A. Bergaigne (La religion v?dique, Paris, 1897, vol. 2, pp.
407-8), Alfred Hillebrandt (Vedische Mythologie, second revised edition
Breslau 1927-29, English translation Motilal, vol. 2, p. 87-88),
and on linguistic ground not accepted by M. Mayrhofer.
Some other references on the .Rbhus:
- F?lix N?ve, Essai sur le mythe des Ribhavas, premier vestige de
l'apoth?ose dans le V?da, avec le texte sanscrit et la traduction fran?aise
des hymnes adress?s ? ces divinit?s, Paris: B. Duprat, 1847 (sometimes
still available in India).
- A.W. Ryder, Die .Rbhus im .Rgveda, G?tersloh, 1901 (ref. found in
Hillebrandt).
- G. von Simpson, "Die .Rbhus im .Rgveda: Jahreszeiteng?tter oder
verg?ttlichte Handwerker?", ZDMG Supplement 3, 1977, pp. 955-63.


>From my German friend:
>
>Well, according to this, the elves actually come from the germanic
tradition
>(old norse Alfar, anglo-saxon Aelf, Danish elve) in German first Alb (still
>found in the word Albtraum, Alptraum, when you sleep and dream badly
because
>an elf is sitting on your chest and having his/her fun with you.
>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elfen
>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alb_%28Geist%29
>Elves are related to dwarfs (indeed, the English word for dwarf comes from
>dwartalf (black elf), though both cousins do not like each other much.
>
>The idea of 3 inch mini-humans living in flowers is not Germanic--elves and
>dwarfs are significantly smaller than average humans, but not toy-like.
>
>Now I will be quiet :)
>Joanna k.


Dr. Christophe Vielle
Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud
Institut orientaliste
Place Blaise Pascal 1
B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve
BELGIUM
Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home)
E-mail: vielle at ori.ucl.ac.be




From reimann at UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU  Fri Feb 11 09:03:25 2005
From: reimann at UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 05 01:03:25 -0800
Subject: email address for Prof Robert Goldman
In-Reply-To: <LHEDJEDCNOHBJHIMPCDHAEGNCGAA.McComas.Taylor@anu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <161227075965.23782.7597269877979036192.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Here it is:

Robert Goldman <rpg at calmail.berkeley.edu>

Luis Gonzalez-Reimann
______

At 01:35 PM 2/11/2005 +1100, you wrote:
>Dear Friends
>
>sarvebhyo namo namaH
>
>Does anyone have a current email address for Prof Robert Goldman?
>
>His listed address at sseas at socrates.berkeley.edu appears to be out of date.
>
>With thanks in advance
>
>McComas
>
>========================================
>McComas Taylor
>Centre for Asian Societies and Histories
>Faculty of Asian Studies
>The Australian National University
>ACT 0200
>
>(Baldessin Annex, Bldg 105A)
>
>Tel. +61 2 6125 8658 (Wed-Fri)




From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU  Fri Feb 11 02:35:36 2005
From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 05 13:35:36 +1100
Subject: email address for Prof Robert Goldman
Message-ID: <161227075962.23782.16603513660301385678.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Friends

sarvebhyo namo namaH

Does anyone have a current email address for Prof Robert Goldman?

His listed address at sseas at socrates.berkeley.edu appears to be out of date.

With thanks in advance

McComas

========================================
McComas Taylor
Centre for Asian Societies and Histories
Faculty of Asian Studies
The Australian National University
ACT 0200

(Baldessin Annex, Bldg 105A)

Tel. +61 2 6125 8658 (Wed-Fri)




From athr at LOC.GOV  Fri Feb 11 20:05:02 2005
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 05 15:05:02 -0500
Subject: Job posting: Head of Scholarly Services, Asian Division,              Library of Congress
Message-ID: <161227075969.23782.5477784997970369770.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues:

The nationwide search for the Head of Scholarly Services Section has
been posted on LC's website at
<http://www.loc.gov/hr/employment/jobposts.html>.  The vacancy
announcement number is 050005. The closing date is 04/08/05. Below is a
brief job description and the minimum requirements.

N.B.: Please direct further questions to the contact number and email
at the bottom of the online announcement, not to the poster or forwarder
of this message.

In some cases is possible for those who are not United States citizens
to apply for this posting.  Again, for details contact the contact
numbers just mentioned.

Please feel free to forward this message to others list and to
individuals.



Job Title: Head of Scholarly Services Section

Grade: GS-1410-14

Salary Range: $88,369 - $$114,882.

Job Description:

The Head of Scholarly Services is responsible for the day-to-day
operation
of the Division's reference service and scholarly activities,
supervising
the reference staff and area specialists, and serving as a specialist
in
matters dealing with the countries, languages and regions within the
Division's geographic area of responsibility. The incumbent assures
the
provision of timely and accurate reference service to the Congress and
other Library patrons, directs the development and maintenance of the
Library's collections pertaining to the region, facilitates the
effective
uses of these collections by scholars, researchers, and other users,
and
manages the development of digital technology to advance the
Division's
goals. The incumbent plans and produces scholarly programs, exhibits,
seminars, and colloquia to bring attention to research developments
and
collections of interest to both scholars and the general public and
remains up-to-date on digital resources. Under the guidance of the
Division Chief, the incumbent may be responsible for cultivating
relations
with potential donors, securing funds for new initiatives, writing
grant
proposals, acquiring and developing new collections, and establishing
new
services. In addition, the incumbent may also be assigned to work with
scholars in the Kluge Center, and outside the Library and to perform
general administrative duties for the division and to serve in lieu of
the
chief as required.

Minimum Requirements:

Applicants must have had progressively responsible experience and
training
sufficient in scope and quality to furnish them with an acceptable
level
of the following knowledge, skills, and abilities to perform the duties
of
the position without more than normal supervision.:

Ability to communicate effectively orally.

Ability to communicate in writing in performing supervisory or leader
work.

Ability to provide consultation or liaison duties and represent the
Institution in the research community both foreign and domestic.

Ability to supervise and lead a diverse workforce.

Ability to analyze organizational and operational problems and to plan
and
carry out library programs.

Ability to read in at least two major Asian languages. **

Knowledge of the subject areas of a large research library collection
and
to provide research services using the Asian collections. **

Note:

The knowledge, skills, and abilities that are marked with a double
asterisk (**) in the minimum requirements are considered the most
critical for the position.

********************************************

Allen Thrasher



Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
of Congress.




From hhhock at EXPRESS.CITES.UIUC.EDU  Thu Feb 17 09:24:08 2005
From: hhhock at EXPRESS.CITES.UIUC.EDU (Hans Henrich Hock)
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 05 03:24:08 -0600
Subject: Vidya Niwas Misra
Message-ID: <161227075971.23782.14609434743393158228.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Two days ago, Indian newspapers carried the sad news that
Vidya Niwas Misra died in what appears to have been a
horrible car accident.  No further details are known to me at
this point.

Hans Henrich Hock




From drm8 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Sat Feb 19 15:18:17 2005
From: drm8 at COLUMBIA.EDU (David Rustin Mellins)
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 05 10:18:17 -0500
Subject: V.rttikAra of the KAvyaprakA'sa
In-Reply-To: <8d212f1c.cff68176.81ae000@expms1.cites.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <161227075974.23782.10004880363799077032.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I had always taken for granted that MammaTa is uniformly accepted to
be the author of the v.rtti portions of the KAvyaprA'sa. Does anyone
know of any infomrative scholarship, contemporary or otherwise,
suggesting other possible authors of this v.rtti? Thanks for any
information in this regard.

                           David Mellins
                           Columbia University




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Sun Feb 20 19:21:38 2005
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk)
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 05 12:21:38 -0700
Subject: Pudgalavada Buddhist Philosophy
Message-ID: <161227075980.23782.12375500577465926613.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Please consult

South Asian Studies Papers, no 12, Monograph 1
Pudgalavada Buddhism
The Reality of the Indeterminate Self
by Leonard C D C Priestley

Joanna Kirkpatrick

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

> Dear List Members
>
> I require assistance reviewing an article on Pudgalavada Buddhism. If
anyone
> can help me in this endeavour, please respond to me off list:
> shyamr at sympatico.ca
>
> Thank you
>
> Shyam
>
> *************************************************************************
> Shyam Ranganathan
> Department of Philosophy, York University, Toronto     (http://shyam.org/)
> Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (http://www.iep.utm.edu/1/editors.htm)
>                       (http://www.yorku.ca/srangan/DesiredArticleList.htm)
>
> *************************************************************************
>




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Sun Feb 20 19:31:34 2005
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk)
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 05 12:31:34 -0700
Subject: Fw: Pudgalavada Buddhist Philosophy
Message-ID: <161227075986.23782.10133368173653958033.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Here's the relevant website:
http://www.sgs.utoronto.ca/sas/publications.html

JK
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```



> Please consult
>
> South Asian Studies Papers, no 12, Monograph 1
> Pudgalavada Buddhism
> The Reality of the Indeterminate Self
> by Leonard C D C Priestley
>
> Joanna Kirkpatrick
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
>
> > Dear List Members
> >
> > I require assistance reviewing an article on Pudgalavada Buddhism. If
> anyone
> > can help me in this endeavour, please respond to me off list:
> > shyamr at sympatico.ca
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Shyam
> >
> >
*************************************************************************
> > Shyam Ranganathan
> > Department of Philosophy, York University, Toronto
(http://shyam.org/)
> > Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
(http://www.iep.utm.edu/1/editors.htm)
> >
(http://www.yorku.ca/srangan/DesiredArticleList.htm)
> >
> >
*************************************************************************
> >
>




From srangan at YORKU.CA  Sun Feb 20 17:36:12 2005
From: srangan at YORKU.CA (Shyam Ranganathan)
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 05 12:36:12 -0500
Subject: Pudgalavada Buddhist Philosophy
Message-ID: <161227075977.23782.7447977239543149381.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List Members

I require assistance reviewing an article on Pudgalavada Buddhism. If anyone
can help me in this endeavour, please respond to me off list:
shyamr at sympatico.ca

Thank you

Shyam

*************************************************************************
Shyam Ranganathan
Department of Philosophy, York University, Toronto     (http://shyam.org/)
Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (http://www.iep.utm.edu/1/editors.htm)
                      (http://www.yorku.ca/srangan/DesiredArticleList.htm)

*************************************************************************




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Sun Feb 20 19:46:28 2005
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk)
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 05 12:46:28 -0700
Subject: Freebie
Message-ID: <161227075989.23782.264496208734671842.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Looking for a scholar (USA only, unless you can pay me in USD for the
postage) to take this book off my hands (thinning my library):

Roghair, Gene H. The Epic of Palnadu. a Study and Trans. of Palnati viorula
Katha. Oxford, Clarendon Pr., 1982.

I only need a check to cover the mailing.
Thanks
Joanna Kirkpatrick




From Palaniappa at AOL.COM  Sun Feb 20 22:03:46 2005
From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 05 17:03:46 -0500
Subject: Indologists can use new VoIP technology to save on communication              costs
Message-ID: <161227075993.23782.7149919550513779153.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

If you need to talk to Indologists in different countries to plan a 
conference or discuss an article, you may be interested in the following new technology 
to communicate with colleagues located all over the world with virtually no 
cost.

damaka Personal Softswitch? is available for free download at 
www.damaka.com/download.htm.

The current product is in beta version and supports IM, free pc-to-pc secure
VoIP calls (upto two lines) with Call Hold, Call Waiting and Music On-hold
features. damaka has plans to release enhanced features in the next two
quarters.

You need to have Windows 2000 or XP operating system. It seems the version 
for Windows98 will be available shortly. Obviously, both parties communicating 
must have downloaded the software.

Regards
S. Palaniappan




From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT  Sun Feb 20 20:04:54 2005
From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner)
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 05 21:04:54 +0100
Subject: Fw: Pudgalavada Buddhist Philosophy
In-Reply-To: <000401c51782$c9c70d60$2930cece@charlie>
Message-ID: <161227075991.23782.4876162451780420159.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>>>I require assistance reviewing an article on Pudgalavada Buddhism. If
>>>
>>>
>>anyone
>>
>>
>>>can help me in this endeavour, please respond to me off list:
>>>shyamr at sympatico.ca
>>>
>>>Thank you
>>>
>>>Shyam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Dear Shyam,

as this may also be of use for others, I am posting this to the list.
Here are a few additional literature hints that specifically deal with
pudgalav?da, though the (vast) literature on Buddhist an?tmav?da of
course also touches upon the subject.

(Diacritics are encoded in utf8/Unicode, and may appear garbled
depending on your mail program.)

Cousins, Lance (1994): "Person and Self." /Buddhism into the Year 2000./
Bangkok: Dhammakaya Founda?tion, 15-31.


Thich, Thien Chau (1984): "The literature of the Pudgalav?dins."
/Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies/ 7/1, 7-16.

Thich, Thien Chau (1987): "Les Reponses des Pudgalav?dins aux critiques
des ?coles bouddhiques." /Journal of the International Association of
Buddhist Studies/ 10/1, 33-53.

Thich, Thien Chau (1996): "The Literature of the Personalists
(/Pudgalav?dins/) of early Buddhism." Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass.

It would help to know more details about what kind of assistance you
would need, whether the article under review concentrates on a special
period or debate (early Buddhism, Abhidharmakosa, Tattvasamgraha, ....),
and so on.

Hope this helps for a start,

Birgit Kellner




From harunaga at SAS.UPENN.EDU  Mon Feb 21 03:53:49 2005
From: harunaga at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Harunaga Isaacson)
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 05 22:53:49 -0500
Subject: Week's business
Message-ID: <161227075999.23782.13260876585598843206.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear all,

1) I add my yes vote for Dmitry Olenev, and since there were no nays I shall
sign him up.

2) Antonio Jardim likewise seems to me to meet requirements. I add my yes vote
to Madhav's, and since there were no nays shall sign him up too.

3) I shall write the Hindi Granth Karyalay informing them that we will not give
them posting priviledges.

4) I shall sign up Srilata Muller.

No other incoming mail seemed to really require action (I take it that noone
feels the need to forward the questionnaire on 'Originality and Legality of
four Veda's [sic] available' to the list).

And after this over, as usual, to Jan.

Best regards,

Haru




From rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ  Sun Feb 20 19:30:13 2005
From: rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ (Richard MAHONEY)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 05 08:30:13 +1300
Subject: Pudgalavada Buddhist Philosophy
In-Reply-To: <009b01c51781$66b0ccd0$2930cece@charlie>
Message-ID: <161227075983.23782.6978122203442698689.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 12:21 -0700, jkirk wrote:
> Please consult
> 
> South Asian Studies Papers, no 12, Monograph 1
> Pudgalavada Buddhism
> The Reality of the Indeterminate Self
> by Leonard C D C Priestley
> 
> Joanna Kirkpatrick

A few more details:

USmarc record #1 in University of Michigan

001 004128957
005 20010618000000.0
008 010618s1999 onc b 001 0 eng d
020 a 1895214211 (hard cover)
020 a 1895214181 (soft cover)
035 a (OCoLC)ocm45234174
035 a (III)iiio33113646
040 a CGU c CGU d GZM d EYM
100 1 a Priestley, Leonard C. D. C.
245 10 a Pudgalav?da Buddhism : b the reality of the indeterminate
self / c Leonard C.D.C. Priestly.
246 30 a Reality of the indeterminate self
260 a Toronto : b University of Toronto, Centre for South Asian Studies,
c 1999.
300 a 255 p. ; c 22 cm.
440 0 a South Asian studies papers ; v no. 12, monograph no. 1
504 a Includes bibliographical references (p. [228]-244) and index.
610 20 a Pudgalav?da x Doctrines
650 0 a Buddhism x Doctrines.
650 0 a ?tman.
650 0 a Self (Philosophy)
650 0 a Philosophy, Buddhist.
852 0 b HATCH c GRAD h BQ 9800 .P33 P758 1999
998 c mcp rj


Best,

 Richard


-- 
Richard MAHONEY | www: homepages.comnet.net.nz/~r-mahoney
Littledene      | phone/fax (man.): +64 3 312 1699
Bay Road        | cell: +64 25 829 986
OXFORD, NZ      | email: r.mahoney at comnet.net.nz




From nlpdept at YAHOO.CO.IN  Mon Feb 21 08:55:27 2005
From: nlpdept at YAHOO.CO.IN (Srinivasa Varakhedi)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 05 08:55:27 +0000
Subject: Samavaya Vada of Nyaya Vaisheshika
In-Reply-To: <009b01c51781$66b0ccd0$2930cece@charlie>
Message-ID: <161227076001.23782.2706208749717746903.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Ind_list memebrs,

I need information reg the books and artcles on "samavAya vAda" of Nyaya Vaisheshika Schools, available on net. kindly guide me.

with regards,

srivara.


Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.




From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Mon Feb 21 00:03:45 2005
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 05 09:03:45 +0900
Subject: Indologists can use new VoIP technology to save on              communication costs
In-Reply-To: <1de.356df60a.2f4a6342@aol.com>
Message-ID: <161227075996.23782.3990739523968369200.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Good point!

Those using Macs: try  skype:
http://www.skype.com/products/

It works on all systems (windows etc.)

Not only (free)  comp. to comp. talk, but also:
from your comp. to telephone numbers in most countries.

In that case it costs you 1 US cent per minute  (put in $10, on your 
credit card, to start with)
Obviously useful to talk to your old relatives &  colleagues who do not 
use a computer or are away form online services, in the field...

It works fine.  Also conference calls.

(For those who want to talk to me: write, and I will give you my skype 
online name.)

MW>

On Feb 21, 2005, at 7:03 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote:

> Dear Indologists,
>
> If you need to talk to Indologists in different countries to plan a
> conference or discuss an article, you may be interested in the 
> following new technology
> to communicate with colleagues located all over the world with 
> virtually no
> cost.
>
> damaka Personal Softswitch? is available for free download at
> www.damaka.com/download.htm.
>
> The current product is in beta version and supports IM, free pc-to-pc 
> secure
> VoIP calls (upto two lines) with Call Hold, Call Waiting and Music 
> On-hold
> features. damaka has plans to release enhanced features in the next two
> quarters.
>
> You need to have Windows 2000 or XP operating system. It seems the 
> version
> for Windows98 will be available shortly. Obviously, both parties 
> communicating
> must have downloaded the software.
>
> Regards
> S. Palaniappan
>
>
Michael Witzel
Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University
1 Bow Street , Cambridge MA 02138
1-617-495 3295           Fax: 496 8571
direct line:       496 2990
http://witzel at fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm




From palaniappa at AOL.COM  Wed Feb 23 03:08:36 2005
From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 05 03:08:36 +0000
Subject: Indologists can use new VoIP technology to save on              communication costs
Message-ID: <161227076003.23782.8146717950886846142.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I prefer not to use Skype because there is a very important difference in
technology between Skype and Damaka. From what I understand, Skype is a
multi-hop technology in that your computer becomes a node in the Skype
network and other people's calls will also be going through your computer.
Damaka is a single hop technology. The calls go directly between the two
parties talking. As a result damaka is a very secure technology.

A friend of mine sent the following excerpt from his Skype License
Agreement which he had agreed to without really reading it until I asked
him to check it.

"Article 4    Permission to Utilize

4.1    Permission to utilize Your computer. In order to receive the
benefits provided by the Skype Software, you hereby grant permission for
the Skype Software to utilize the processor and bandwidth of Your computer
for the limited purpose of facilitating the communication between You and
other Skype Software users.

4.2    Protection of Your computer (resources). You understand that the
Skype Software will use its commercially reasonable efforts to protect the
privacy and integrity of Your computer resources and Your communication,
however, You acknowledge and agree that Skype cannot give any warranties
in this respect."

As a result, I do not use Skype.

Regards
S. Palaniappan




From rubberjoel at SAFE-MAIL.NET  Wed Feb 23 19:18:43 2005
From: rubberjoel at SAFE-MAIL.NET (Joel Bordeaux)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 05 14:18:43 -0500
Subject: Conference-- Under Construction: History, Identities,              and Representation
Message-ID: <161227076008.23782.401161291087213075.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The Graduate Students Association of the Columbia University Religion
Department is pleased to announce:

Under Construction: History, Identities, and Representation in the
Studies of Religion
March 31st-April 1st

A first annual two-day conference focusing on issues involving the
history of religious studies, the historical conceptualization and
representation of religious categories, and the ways in which
practitioners have understood and enacted these frameworks in their
lives.

Featuring:

Keynote speaker Professor Robert Orsi, Charles Warren Professor of the
History of Religion in America at Harvard University and 2003 President
of the American Academy of Religion, as well as:

Professor Mark C. Taylor (Williams College and Columbia University)
Professor Gauri Viswanathan (Columbia University)
Professor Richard Bulliet (Columbia University),
Panel presentations by graduate students from throughout North America

Please visit our conference web site for program details, paper topics,
and registration:
http://www.columbia.edu/~jre38/index.htm




From Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE  Wed Feb 23 13:56:03 2005
From: Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE (Martin Gansten)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 05 14:56:03 +0100
Subject: Unusual ways of rearing one's young
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.58.0401081218400.2024@Anat-lws119.anat.ucl.ac.u k>
Message-ID: <161227076005.23782.9448181918893688678.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anyone know where and when the view was first expressed (in India)
that certain species rear their young simply by looking at or thinking
about them? And are there different versions of this idea? All suggestions
for sources are welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Martin Gansten




From nlpdept at YAHOO.CO.IN  Thu Feb 24 05:34:38 2005
From: nlpdept at YAHOO.CO.IN (Srinivasa Varakhedi)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 05 05:34:38 +0000
Subject: Unusual ways of rearing one's young
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20050223145603.00b8cc40@pop.lu.se>
Message-ID: <161227076010.23782.18084176450017602154.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Yes. In BhAgavata-purANam as I remember, it is said that tortoise will rear their young by simply thinkig about them. The verse reads as "apatyamiva kUrmANAm.....". I will locate the exact verse and let you know in one or two days.

with regards,
srivara.

Martin Gansten <Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE> wrote:
Does anyone know where and when the view was first expressed (in India)
that certain species rear their young simply by looking at or thinking
about them? And are there different versions of this idea? All suggestions
for sources are welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Martin Gansten

Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.




From Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE  Thu Feb 24 06:49:22 2005
From: Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE (Martin Gansten)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 05 07:49:22 +0100
Subject: Unusual ways of rearing one's young
In-Reply-To: <20050224053438.74503.qmail@web8508.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227076013.23782.13293238430720803127.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Yes. In BhAgavata-purANam as I remember, it is said that
>tortoise will rear their young by simply thinkig about them.
>The verse reads as "apatyamiva kUrmANAm.....". I will
>locate the exact verse and let you know in one or two days.

Please do. I searched my own edition of the Bhagavata, but could not find
the verse. I would still be interested in other sources, particularly older
ones.

Best regards,
Martin




From jrasik at COLMEX.MX  Fri Feb 25 14:27:50 2005
From: jrasik at COLMEX.MX (Rasik Vihari Joshi Tripathi)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 05 08:27:50 -0600
Subject: Unusual ways of rearing one's young
Message-ID: <161227076016.23782.7358426648028301247.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Srivara,
I am quoting here a reference which may be useful to you:
My Sanskrit Mahakavya "Ramapratapacaritam" vol II  p.1028
Bhakter lakSaNamasti kim Duliriva svANdam yathA bAlukA  samstham palvala-samsthitAni kurute yA posaNam duratah/
tadvad dhyAnamapIha nAstri vimalA bhaktir yato jAlake
sprSTam saikata samsthite vigalitam tad dhyAna-bhangeNdakam/
Rasik Vihari Joshi



-----Mensaje original-----
De: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk]En nombre de Srinivasa
Varakhedi
Enviado el: Mi?rcoles, 23 de Febrero de 2005 11:35 p.m.
Para: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Asunto: Re: Unusual ways of rearing one's young


Yes. In BhAgavata-purANam as I remember, it is said that tortoise will rear their young by simply thinkig about them. The verse reads as "apatyamiva kUrmANAm.....". I will locate the exact verse and let you know in one or two days.

with regards,
srivara.

Martin Gansten <Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE> wrote:
Does anyone know where and when the view was first expressed (in India)
that certain species rear their young simply by looking at or thinking
about them? And are there different versions of this idea? All suggestions
for sources are welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Martin Gansten

Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.




From srangan at YORKU.CA  Fri Feb 25 20:51:34 2005
From: srangan at YORKU.CA (Shyam Ranganathan)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 05 15:51:34 -0500
Subject: Call for Papers
In-Reply-To: <d9eec4c4462137c712935ff0985ac33f@ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <161227076019.23782.12593325106251365201.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

*******************************************************************
Call for papers on Indian Philosophy (please excuse cross-postings)
*******************************************************************

The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (http://www.iep.utm.edu/) is requesting
article submissions on Indian Philosophy.

Founded in 1995 and run by an international board of editors, the IEP is open
to articles written by professionally trained philosophers and scholars of
South Asian religion and thought.  Indian philosophy submissions that supersede
the expertise of the Acting Area Editor for Indian philosophy (the bulk of
submissions) are subject to the approval of blind, anonymous referees who are
expert in the relevant field. The IEP currently receives approximately 3,000
hits per day, with the greatest percentage coming from university students.
Unlike most printed philosophy reference works, the IEP is continually revised
and updated.

For an unexhaustive list of desired articles and articles under production in
Indian philosophy, please see
http://www.yorku.ca/srangan/DesiredArticleList.htm.

For more information on submissions, please see
http://www.iep.utm.edu/submit.htm or contact Shyam Ranganathan (Acting Area
Editor, Indian Philosophy IEP): indian-philosophy at shyam.org.




From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM  Sat Feb 26 10:18:56 2005
From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 05 02:18:56 -0800
Subject: Unusual ways of rearing one's young
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20050224074922.0098b8b0@pop.lu.se>
Message-ID: <161227076022.23782.5067078148675349775.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I would not be surprised if the "mind-born sons
of Brahma" were also "mind-reared" ...
And wasn't Kasyapa (the "Tortoise"!) one of those
mind-born ones (or very close to them in the
geneological tree)?
J.H.

was not only mind-born but alsalso reared
--- Martin Gansten <Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE>
wrote:

> >Yes. In BhAgavata-purANam as I remember, it is
> said that
> >tortoise will rear their young by simply
> thinkig about them.
> >The verse reads as "apatyamiva kUrmANAm.....".
> I will
> >locate the exact verse and let you know in one
> or two days.
>
> Please do. I searched my own edition of the
> Bhagavata, but could not find
> the verse. I would still be interested in other
> sources, particularly older
> ones.
>
> Best regards,
> Martin
>




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From athr at LOC.GOV  Mon Feb 28 18:53:08 2005
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 05 13:53:08 -0500
Subject: conference on orality-literacy scholar Walter Ong
Message-ID: <161227076025.23782.4217862584274011486.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Some might find the forwarded message of interest.  In my opinion Ong is
right up there with Lord, Havelock, Goody, et al in dealing with these
issues, but I see him mentioned less often than I would expect.

Allen

| > Language, Culture and Identity; The Legacy of Walter J. Ong,
| > S.J.
| >
| > A conference celebrating the Jesuit gift of the Ong Archive
| > to the Saint Louis University Libraries
| >                April 7-8, 2005
| >
| >              Schedule of Events
| >
| > Thursday, April 7, 2005
| >
| > 9:30 a.m.       van transportation from Water Tower Inn to
| > Busch Student Center
| >
| > 10-11:30 a.m. Panel: Current Research (St Louis Room, Busch
| > Student Center)
| > Kathleen Welch
| > Paul Soukup, S.J.
| > Lance Strate
| > Stephen Casmier
| > Thomas Farrell, Moderator
| >
| > Noon-1 p.m. box lunch (BSC 170)
| >
| > 1-2:30 p.m. Catherine Snow, plenary lecture (St Louis Room)
| > Introduction: Ron Kellogg
| >
| > 3-4:30 p.m. Roy Schafer, plenary lecture (St. Louis Room)
| > Introduction: Sara van den Berg
| >
| > 5-6 p.m. Exhibit, Walter J. Ong Archive (Pius XII Library)
| > John Waide, SLU Archivist
| > John Walter, Ong Archive Research Assistant
| >
| > 6:30-8:30 p.m. Dinner (Cupples House)
| > Welcoming Remarks: Tom Shippey, Ong Professor of Humanities
| >
| > 8:30 p.m.       van transportation to Water Tower Inn
| >
| >             Friday, April 8, 2005


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library
of Congress.