From dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG Mon Nov 1 02:09:49 2004 From: dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG (Dean Anderson) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 04 20:09:49 -0600 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075192.23782.5873764873241648020.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Do the Mac font assignments match any of the ones in the PC/Linux world? In other words, are we anywhere near having a good cross-platform layout that we might turn into a standard among Indologists? Dean Anderson >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of >Kengo Harimoto >Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 5:45 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Devanagari > > >> I am not aware of the situation with Devanagari input on >Linux and Mac >> systems. > >Mac OS X (since 10.0?) comes with Devanagari support. One has >to tell the installer to install Indic languages support upon >fresh install, or run the System installer later telling it to >install the support. > >Two Devanagri input methods come with the system: Devanagari >QWERTY and Devanagari. I assume the latter is in accordance >with the ISCII keyboard layout. > >The Devanagari suport has been improving consistently. The >current version of the Mac OS X is 10.3. I think it has come >to the point of being usable by now. > >Most OpenType unicode fonts work to some degree. It appears >that Apple's OpenType support is not yet perfect. For >example, I don't see conjunct characters on screen. (In >utf-8, I understand that the input stream is something like ka >+ viraama + ta for kta. If a font has that conjunct >character, it should appear as kta, but that's not the case >with Devanagari OpenType unicode fonts on OS X. I see ka + >viraama + ta on screen.) > >The Devanagari fonts provided by Apple (AAT font) better >supports conjunct characters. However, there are still some >bugs and not all the ligatures that should be available in the >font may not appear on screen. > >I might also add that keyboard layout presupposes Hindi rather >than Sanskrit, so, some commonly used symbols are not easily >available. For example, long vocalic r was not accessible >through standard keyboard layout (QWERTY version). A slight >modification to the keyboard layout was necessary. > >All the Cocoa applications, meaning applications that don't >run on Classic Mac OS (<= Mac OS 9.x)[1], support utf-8, >including Devanagari. > >[1] Things are much more complicated, but this is the best >simplification I can make with regard to what Cocoa applications are. > >-- >kengo harimoto > From asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Mon Nov 1 04:30:20 2004 From: asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Andrew Glass) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 04 20:30:20 -0800 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: <000001c4bfb7$dff0ff10$43ee3e80@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <161227075195.23782.10352035503728641949.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dean, If I understand correctly, your comment may result from a confusion of encoding, font, and input method. "Encoding" refers to the numerical values a document uses to store units of text. All modern computers can use Unicode for this. A document encoded as Unicode will be readable on all other operating systems that support this standard. For example, there is a unique value assigned to Devanagari 'a'. A "font" is a collection of letter shapes that a computer uses to display the content of a text file. A "Unicode font" is simply a font that knows which shapes to display for a text file that is encoded in Unicode. The "OpenType", "TrueType", "Type 1" and "AAT" are font formats that differ in how they define and cross-reference letter shapes. The first three of these work on all modern computers; AAT only works on the Mac. "Keyboard layout" (or "input method") refers to the way a user enters text into the computer. For instance, one can tell the computer to insert a Devanagari 'a' into a document when the A key is pressed on the keyboard. Different keyboard layouts are just different users' preferred ways of entering a particular script. On modern computers, the choice of keyboard layout is independent of the choice of font used, and the encoding will in any case can be Unicode. The resulting files can be freely shared and edited on different computer systems. I hope this clarifies the situation more than it confuses it! Andrew Glass Stefan Baums From mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Nov 1 14:11:35 2004 From: mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 04 08:11:35 -0600 Subject: History of Sanskrit studies In-Reply-To: <20041101133245.JZMS14256.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@Winston> Message-ID: <161227075200.23782.17729452526423751301.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Raymond Schwab, Oriental Renaissance (Columbia University 1984, trans. from the French original) is an eccentric, but nevertheless informative and useful, work on the early modern European encounter with Indian culture in general. Sanskrit of course has an important place in the story overall. It is not, however, a history of the field per se, though inter alia it does touch on this. For Buddhist Sanskrit studies in particular, one might consult the useful monograph by de Jong: A Brief History of Buddhist Studies in Europe and America. Charles Allen, The Buddha and the Sahibs, is a retelling for the general readership, but with occasional gems that I've not seen elsewhere, esp. the account of James Prinsep. Again, Sanskrit studies are not central here, but they are mentioned on occasion. On course, the notes and apparatus scattered throughout Gonda's History of Indian Literature contain much of the raw material for a history of the field. Matthew Kapstein From srangan at YORKU.CA Mon Nov 1 14:34:21 2004 From: srangan at YORKU.CA (Shyam Ranganathan) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 04 09:34:21 -0500 Subject: History of Sanskrit studies In-Reply-To: <20041101133245.JZMS14256.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@Winston> Message-ID: <161227075202.23782.14057984801439114438.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Halbfass's *India and Europe* deals with the history of Sanskrit Studies as a matter of course, but it is not the focus of this work. If there is something more detailed, I would be interested in it as well. Best Shyam Ranganathan Quoting Lars Martin Fosse : > Dear members of the list, > > is there a history of sanskrit studies available? Preferably in English, but > any bibliographical data are welcome. > > Best regards, > > Lars Martin Fosse > > > > From: > Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse > Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, > 0674 Oslo - Norway > Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 > Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 > E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no > From gthomgt at ADELPHIA.NET Mon Nov 1 15:51:33 2004 From: gthomgt at ADELPHIA.NET (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 04 10:51:33 -0500 Subject: History of Sanskrit studies In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041101155415.00b5a550@pop-server.unil.ch> Message-ID: <161227075211.23782.8018001278808103519.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Louis Renou's *Les maitres de la philologie v?dique* [Annales du Mus?e Guimet, xxxviii, 1927] should be added to Francois Obrist's useful list. It is narrowly focused, of course, but it treats in detail the early controversies in Vedic Studues that led to the establishment of good philological method. Extensive discussion of Bergaigne, Oldenberg, Geldner, Grassmann, Pischel, Ludwig, et al. It is excellent, as one would expect of anything written by Renou. Best wishes, George Thompson From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Mon Nov 1 17:50:03 2004 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John Huntington) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 04 12:50:03 -0500 Subject: SV: Devanagari In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075217.23782.11310736413861180535.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Devanagari comes with OS10. All one has to do is install the selected Indic languages on the system install disk. I am sure that it does not have everything for Classical Sanskrit, but it is a start. Some Mac also use Unicode JOhn John The fonts are terribly boting however. >Are there any plans to produce a version for Apple Mac? > >There still seem to be no freeware or shareware Devanagari fonts for >Mac with all the ligatures for Sanskrit. Even xdvng lacks some >extremely common ones. (At least, I've never worked out how to make >it write kta or cca in their Sanskrit forms.) I have found similar >problems with the older version of Itrans for Mac, and the Mac's own >Indian Language Kit. The latter also seems to conflict with some of >the Mac's other software. > >This is something of a perennial quest, but has anyone found anything >useful that has been created recently? > >Valerie J Roebuck >Manchester, UK > >>Stefan Baums pointed me to the list in this publication: >> >> http://www.sanskritweb.de/itmanual2003.pdf >> >>It has been written by Ulrich Stiehl. The list runs from p. 28. >> >>But it would of course be wonderful if the ligatures and everything you ever >>wanted to know about Devanagari but were afraid to ask, were available on a >>web page. >> >>Lars Martin From lmfosse at CHELLO.NO Mon Nov 1 13:32:38 2004 From: lmfosse at CHELLO.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 04 14:32:38 +0100 Subject: History of Sanskrit studies Message-ID: <161227075197.23782.9109656770044528273.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of the list, is there a history of sanskrit studies available? Preferably in English, but any bibliographical data are welcome. Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no From mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Nov 1 21:11:39 2004 From: mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 04 15:11:39 -0600 Subject: SV: History of Sanskrit studies In-Reply-To: <20041101192337.GC393@131-203-240-72.remote.comnet.co.nz> Message-ID: <161227075226.23782.98019137699652790.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In addition to PJ Marshall's excellent "The British Discovery of Hinduism," one should of course note its companion, P. Almond's, "The British Discovery of Hinduism" Frits Staal's anthology on the Sanskrit grammarians also comes to mind as a work focussed strictly on Sanskrit studies, the point of departure for all this. Matthew Kapstein From Francois.Obrist at BCU.UNIL.CH Mon Nov 1 15:16:14 2004 From: Francois.Obrist at BCU.UNIL.CH (Francois Obrist) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 04 16:16:14 +0100 Subject: History of Sanskrit studies In-Reply-To: <20041101133245.JZMS14256.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@Winston> Message-ID: <161227075204.23782.9982217816133467643.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sans commentaires, je n'ai pas lu ces ouvrages. Mais voici quelques titres puis?s dans le catalogue de notre biblioth?que. Hope this help. Tout de bon Fran?ois Zur akademischen Krise in der Indologie und den M?glichkeiten ihrer ?berwindung / Claus Oetke Lieu / Dates Stockholm : C. Oetke Eigenverlag, 2001 Edition 2., ?berarb. und erweiterte Aufl. Beitr?ge zur indischen Philologie und Altertumskunde : Walther Schubring zum 70. Geburtstag dargebracht von der deutschen Indologie Lieu / Dates Hamburg : C. de Gruyter, 1951 Beyond orientalism : the work of Wilhelm Halbfass and its impact on Indian and cross-cultural studies / ed. by Eli Franco and Karin Preisendanz Lieu / Dates Amsterdam ; Atlanta : Rodopi, 1997 Einf?hrung in die Indologie : Stand, Methoden, Aufgaben / hrsg. von Heinz Bechert und Georg von Simson ; unter Mitarbeit von Peter Bachmann... [et al.] Lieu / Dates Darmstadt : Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft, 1993 Edition 2. durchges., erg. und erw. Aufl., erg. Neuausg. / unter zus?tzlicher Mitw. von Daw Khin Khin Su....[et al.] Collection Orientalistische Einf?hrungen Les ?tudes v?diques et ?raniennes dans l'histoire : discours d'ouverture du cours de Sanskrit v?dique et de Zend... / Girard de Rialle Lieu / Dates Paris : Maisonneuve et Ce, 1870 History of researches on Indian Buddhism / Narendra Nath Bhattacharyya Lieu / Dates New Delhi : Munshiram Manoharlal Pub., 1981 Indologie und Indo-Tibetologie : dreissig Jahre indische und indo-tibetische Studien in Bonn / hrsg. von Helmut Eimer Lieu / Dates Bonn : Indica et Tibetica, 1988 Collection Indica et Tibetica Bd. 13 Methodology in Indological research / M. Srimannarayana Murti Lieu / Dates Delhi ; Varanasi : Bharatiya Vidya Prakashan, 1991 Miroir de l'Inde : ?tudes indiennes en sciences sociales / textes r?unis et pr?sent?s par Roland Lardinois ; trad. de l'angl. par Jo?l Dusuzeau, Roland Lardinois Lieu / Dates Paris : Ed. de la Maison des sciences de l'homme, 1989 Modern researches in Sanskrit : Dr. Veermani Pd. Upadhyaya felicitation volume / ed. by Satya Deva Misra Lieu / Dates Patna : Indira Prakashan, 1987 New dimensions of Indology : (Dr. Praveen Chandra Parikh f?licitation volume) / chief ed. R.N. Mehta... Lieu / Dates Delhi : Bharatiya Vidya Prakashan, 1997 New horizons of research in indology : (silver jubilee volume) / ed. by V.N. Jha Lieu / Dates Pune : University of Poona, 1989 Collection Publications of the Centre of Advanced Study in Sanskrit / University of Poona. Class E no. 10 Oriental studies in India / ed. by R.N. Dandekar, V. Raghavan [on the occasion of the 26th International Congress of Orientalists meeting at New Delhi in 1964] Lieu / Dates Delhi : Organising Committee 26th International Congress of Orientalists, 1964 Progress of Indic studies : 1917 - 1942 / ed. by R.N. Dandekar Lieu / Dates Poona : Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, 1985 Collection Government Oriental series. Class B No 8 Recent trends in indology / Dandekar, Ramchandra Narayan Lieu / Dates Poona : Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, 1978 Collection Bhandarkar oriental series no. 11 Verzeichnis indienkundlicher Hochschulschriften : Deutschland-?Osterreich-Schweiz / von Klaus Ludwig Janert Lieu / Dates Wiesbaden : O. Harrassowitz, 1961 The way to liberation : indological studies in Japan / ed. by Sengaku Mayeda ; in collab. with Y. Matsunami, M. Tokunaga and M. Marui Lieu / Dates New Delhi : Manohar, 2000 Collection Japanese studies on South Asia No 3 Etudes bouddhiques : domaine, disciplines, perspectives / Jacques May Lieu / Dates Lausanne : Impr. des arts et m?tiers, 1973 Note sur le titre Tir? ? part de: Etudes de Lettres. - Lausanne. - S?rie 3, t. 6(1973) A brief history of buddhist studies in Europe and America / J.W. de Jong Lieu / Dates Delhi : Sri Satguru Publications, 1987 Edition 2nd, rev. and enlarged ed Collection Bibliotheca Indo-Buddhica no. 33 Directory of Buddhist and Indic studies in Japan : 1994 / The Centre for East Asian Cultural Studies for Unesco Lieu / Dates Tokyo : The Centre for East Asian Cultural Studies for Unesco, 1994 L'?tat actuel des ?tudes bouddhiques / Paul Demi?ville Lieu / Dates Lausanne : Impr. La Concorde, 1927 Note sur le titre Tir? ? part de: Revue de th?ologie et de philosophie, No 62 Notes sur l'?tat actuel des ?tudes bouddhiques en Europe / Jacques May ; [suivi d'une trad. en japonais par Yutaka Ojihara] Lieu / Dates [Kyoto] : [Kyoto University], 1961 Note sur le titre Tir? ? part de: Miscellanea Indologica Kiotiensia Otto Ottonovich Rosenberg and his contribution to Buddhology in Russia / ed. by Kar?nina Kollmar-Paulenz and John S. Barlow Lieu / Dates Wien : Arbeitskreis f?r tibetische und buddhistische Studien Universit?t Wien, 1998 Collection Wiener Studien zur Tibetologie und Buddhismuskunde H. 41 Pure land and Shinsh? studies at the dawn of 21st century : 9th European Block Conference, Lausanne University (Switzerland), September 3-4, 2002 / the International Association of Shin Buddhist Studies. "Shinsh? in Europe: present and future" : the 12th Conference of European Shinsh? Communities, Lausanne, September 5-6, 2002 Lieu / Dates Gen?ve : Helen Loveday & J?r?me Ducor, 2002 At 14:32 01/11/04 +0100, you wrote: >Dear members of the list, > >is there a history of sanskrit studies available? Preferably in English, but >any bibliographical data are welcome. > >Best regards, > >Lars Martin Fosse > > > >From: >Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse >Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, >0674 Oslo - Norway >Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 >Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 >E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no -------------------------------------------- Francois Obrist Bibliotheque cantonale et universitaire (BCU) Section de langues et civilisations orientales CH-1015 Lausanne email: Francois.Obrist at bcu.unil.ch tel. : +41 21 692 4836 Fax : +41 21 692 4845 From Francois.Obrist at BCU.UNIL.CH Mon Nov 1 15:32:24 2004 From: Francois.Obrist at BCU.UNIL.CH (Francois Obrist) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 04 16:32:24 +0100 Subject: History of Sanskrit studies In-Reply-To: <20041101133245.JZMS14256.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@Winston> Message-ID: <161227075207.23782.13242868593002002023.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Et encore : Title: Sanskrit and related studies : contemporary researches and reflections / editors: Bimal Krishna Matilal & Purusottama Bilimoria. Author/editor: Matilal, Bimal Krishna Bilimoria, Purusottama Volum: Sri Garib Dass oriental series ; 84 Published: Delhi : Sri Satguru, 1990. Title: Sanskrit and allied indological studies in Europe / V. Raghavan ; with forewords by A.L. Mudaliar ... [et al.]. Author/editor: Raghavan, V. Volum: Madras University Sanskrit series ; 22 Published: [Madras] : University of Madras, 1956. At 14:32 01/11/04 +0100, you wrote: >Dear members of the list, > >is there a history of sanskrit studies available? Preferably in English, but >any bibliographical data are welcome. > >Best regards, > >Lars Martin Fosse > > > >From: >Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse >Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, >0674 Oslo - Norway >Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 >Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 >E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no -------------------------------------------- Francois Obrist Bibliotheque cantonale et universitaire (BCU) Section de langues et civilisations orientales CH-1015 Lausanne email: Francois.Obrist at bcu.unil.ch tel. : +41 21 692 4836 Fax : +41 21 692 4845 From lmfosse at CHELLO.NO Mon Nov 1 16:51:24 2004 From: lmfosse at CHELLO.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 04 17:51:24 +0100 Subject: SV: History of Sanskrit studies In-Reply-To: <20041101133245.JZMS14256.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@Winston> Message-ID: <161227075214.23782.7202466709388784554.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would like to thank all of you who have sent me bibliographical info on this subject. I am quite overwhelmed! An incredible response. I should perhaps explain why: The university of Oslo has somewhat high-handedly introduced a course on "research methods in Asian studies". This apparently includes everything from Sanskrit to Hindi in addition to everything else. I have proposed a course for Sanskritists more in line with what they actually need, and a history of the subject would be very useful. With this information, I can at a later date more easily build a course that is meaningful to people working with the early period. I may get a chance to do this next year because I am likely to be half-time lecturer for sanskrit for a period, since there is a vacancy in Indology right now, and no money to fill it. My job will be to keep the boat floating, if not to sail the oceans. Best regards, Lars Martin From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no > -----Opprinnelig melding----- > Fra: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] P? vegne av > Lars Martin Fosse > Sendt: 1. november 2004 14:33 > Til: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Emne: History of Sanskrit studies > > Dear members of the list, > > is there a history of sanskrit studies available? Preferably > in English, but any bibliographical data are welcome. > > Best regards, > > Lars Martin Fosse > > > > From: > Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse > Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, > 0674 Oslo - Norway > Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 > 90 91 91 45 > E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no > From vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE Mon Nov 1 19:12:04 2004 From: vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 04 20:12:04 +0100 Subject: History of Sanskrit studies In-Reply-To: <20041101133245.JZMS14256.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@Winston> Message-ID: <161227075220.23782.9663676357761757254.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> See: E.W. Windisch, Geschichte der Sanskrit-Philologie und indischen Altertumskunde, 2 vols., vol. 1: Stra?burg, 1917 (= Grundri? der indogermanischen Sprach- und Altertumskunde I/1b), vol. 2: Berlin - Leipzig, 1920 (reprint en 1 vol., Berlin, 1992). Maybe also: H. Hulin & Ch. Maillard, L'Inde inspiratrice, la r?ception de l'Inde en France et en Allemagne, Strasbourg UP, 1996; P.J. Marshall, The British discovery of Hinduism in the eighteenth century, Cambridge UP, 1970. >Dear members of the list, > >is there a history of sanskrit studies available? Preferably in English, but >any bibliographical data are welcome. > >Best regards, > >Lars Martin Fosse > > > >From: >Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse >Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, >0674 Oslo - Norway >Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 >Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 >E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no Dr. Christophe Vielle Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud Institut orientaliste Place Blaise Pascal 1 B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve BELGIUM Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) E-mail: vielle at ori.ucl.ac.be From hhhock at EXPRESS.CITES.UIUC.EDU Tue Nov 2 03:48:35 2004 From: hhhock at EXPRESS.CITES.UIUC.EDU (Hans Henrich Hock) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 04 21:48:35 -0600 Subject: SV: History of Sanskrit studies Message-ID: <161227075232.23782.540741027851513927.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Without wanting to blow my horn too much, the following two papers, co-written with Rajeshwari Pandharipande, may be useful too, although their focus may be a bit narrow. The sociolinguistic position of Sanskrit in pre-Muslim South Asia. Studies in Language Learning 1:2.106-38, 1976. Sanskrit in the pre-Islamic context of South Asia. Aspects of sociolinguistics in South Asia, ed. by B. B. Kachru & S. N. Sridhar, 11-25. (= International Journal of the Sociology of Language, 16.) 1978. [Condensed version of the preceding item] Cheers, Hans Henrich Hock ---- Original message ---- >Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:51:24 +0100 >From: Lars Martin Fosse >Subject: SV: History of Sanskrit studies >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > >I would like to thank all of you who have sent me bibliographical info on >this subject. I am quite overwhelmed! An incredible response. > >I should perhaps explain why: The university of Oslo has somewhat >high-handedly introduced a course on "research methods in Asian studies". >This apparently includes everything from Sanskrit to Hindi in addition to >everything else. I have proposed a course for Sanskritists more in line with >what they actually need, and a history of the subject would be very useful. >With this information, I can at a later date more easily build a course that >is meaningful to people working with the early period. I may get a chance to >do this next year because I am likely to be half-time lecturer for sanskrit >for a period, since there is a vacancy in Indology right now, and no money >to fill it. My job will be to keep the boat floating, if not to sail the >oceans. > >Best regards, > >Lars Martin > > > >From: >Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse >Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, >0674 Oslo - Norway >Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 >Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 >E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no > > > > >> -----Opprinnelig melding----- >> Fra: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] P? vegne av >> Lars Martin Fosse >> Sendt: 1. november 2004 14:33 >> Til: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Emne: History of Sanskrit studies >> >> Dear members of the list, >> >> is there a history of sanskrit studies available? Preferably >> in English, but any bibliographical data are welcome. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Lars Martin Fosse >> >> >> >> From: >> Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse >> Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, >> 0674 Oslo - Norway >> Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 >> 90 91 91 45 >> E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no >> From rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ Mon Nov 1 19:23:37 2004 From: rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Tue, 02 Nov 04 08:23:37 +1300 Subject: SV: History of Sanskrit studies In-Reply-To: <20041101165131.EJWN28380.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@Winston> Message-ID: <161227075223.23782.14834882219039346188.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 05:51:24PM +0100, Lars Martin Fosse wrote: [snip] > I should perhaps explain why: The university of Oslo has somewhat > high-handedly introduced a course on "research methods in Asian > studies". [snip] > I have proposed a course for Sanskritists more in line with what > they actually need, and a history of the subject would be very > useful. [snip] For method, de Jong could be supplemented with: JIABS 18(2) Winter 1995 Seyfort Ruegg, Some reflections on the place of philosophy in the study of Buddhism, pp. 145ff. Gomez, Unspoken paradigms: meanderings through the metaphors of a field, pp. 183ff. Cabezon, Buddhist Studies as a discipline and the role of theory, pp. 231ff. Tillemans, Remarks on philology, pp. 279ff. Hubbard, Upping the ante: budstud at millenium.end.edu, pp. 309ff. On interpretation and translation see: P. J. Griffiths. Buddhist hybrid english: Some notes on philology and hermeneutics for buddhologists. Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies (Madison, Wisconsin), 4:2:7-32, 1981. For a case study of various approaches to one author: Tuck, A. P., Isogenesis: Western Readings of N?g?rjuna & the Philosophy of Scholarship, Ph.D. thesis, Princeton University (1987). -, Comparative Philosophy and the Philosophy of Scholarship: On the Western Interpretation of N?g?rjuna (New York & Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1990). And finally, on the consequences of an `insufficient philological outfit' -- all too common it seems -- see an early note in: C. Lindtner. Nagarjuniana: Studies in the Writings and Philosophy of N?g?rjuna (Copenhagen: Akademisk Forlag, 1982) Best regards, Richard Mahoney -- Richard MAHONEY | internet: homepages.comnet.net.nz/~r-mahoney Littledene | telephone / telefax (man.): ++64 3 312 1699 Bay Road | cellular: ++64 25 829 986 OXFORD, NZ | e-mail: r.mahoney[use"@"]comnet.net.nz From christian.coseru at ANU.EDU.AU Mon Nov 1 21:46:23 2004 From: christian.coseru at ANU.EDU.AU (Christian Coseru) Date: Tue, 02 Nov 04 08:46:23 +1100 Subject: History of Sanskrit studies In-Reply-To: <20041101133245.JZMS14256.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@Winston> Message-ID: <161227075229.23782.12926465261715899671.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Some additions to the works already mentioned by others: Rocher, Rosane, Alexander Hamilton, 1762-1824; A Chapter In The Early History Of Sanskrit Philology, New Haven, American Oriental Society, 1968. Windisch, Ernst, Geschichte der Sanskrit-Philologie und Indischen Altertumskunde / von Ernst Windisch Berlin : De Gruyter, 1992 Indianisme et bouddhisme, m?langes offerts ? Mgr Etienne Lamotte, Institut Orientaliste Louvain la Neuve 1980 Raghavan, V, Sanskrit and allied Indological studies in Europe, with foreword by A.L.Mudaliar Univ. of Madras, Madras. University. Sanskrit Series no.22 1956 Helmut Eimer, Indology and Indo-Tibetology : thirty years of Indian and Indo-Tibetan studies in Bonn = Indologie und Indo-Tibetologie : dreissig Jahre indische und indo-tibetische Studien in Bonn Sengupta, Gauranga Gopal, Indology and its eminent western savantas : collection of biographies of western Indologists foreword by A.L. Basham Calcutta : Punthi-Pustak, 1996 Henri de Lubac, Le rencontre du bouddhisme et de l'occident (giving a catholic perspective but quite informative on the early missionary works) and on the philosophical side Roger-Pol Droit, L'oubli de l'Inde : une amn?sie philosophique, Paris : Presses Universitaires de France, 1989 Christian Coseru From Scharf at BROWN.EDU Wed Nov 3 00:33:46 2004 From: Scharf at BROWN.EDU (Peter M. Scharf) Date: Tue, 02 Nov 04 19:33:46 -0500 Subject: Devanagari Message-ID: <161227075241.23782.11681158698951261379.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> For simple Devanagari instruction, see the following sites: The Sanskrit Library has developed animations showing the sequence of strokes in drawing each character at: http://sanskritlibrary.org On the reading room page, under "Instructional Materials", click on "Devan?gar? characters". The access page shows the characters in alphabetic order, with the vowels listed twice, first as independent characters, then as diacritics on the character k. Click on any character to view its animation. Click the right arrow to play or replay it. Another site displaying Devan?gar? character animations is: http://sanskrit.claude-marillier.net/alpha.html This site shows alternative shapes of characters for a, ?, ?, ?, and jha not shown at the first site. Stephan Baums and Andrew Glass have covered the Unicode standard and transcoding programs in their messages. The Sanskrit Library has developed comprehensive phonetic encoding schemes (in contrast to input methods, Roman transliterations, etc.) for Sanskrit with conversion routines to each other and to Unicode. The Basic phonetic encoding scheme is posted at sanskritlibrary.org. The purpose of phonetic encoding schemes is to represent Sanskrit sounds in a manner to simplify linguistic processing. Peter Scharf -- ************************************************** Peter M. Scharf (401) 863-2720 office Department of Classics (401) 863-2123 dept Brown University PO Box 1856 (401) 863-7484 fax Providence, RI 02912 Scharf at brown.edu http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/Scharf/ http://sanskritlibrary.org/ ************************************************** From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Wed Nov 3 00:56:32 2004 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 04 11:56:32 +1100 Subject: Help with transliteration of zatapathabrAhmaNa Message-ID: <161227075235.23782.3635933506307669667.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear friends Allow me to parade my ignorance once more! I would like to transliterate a section of the zatapathabrAhmaNa (2.1.4.11-12) in which PrajApati creates the world by uttering the three syllable bhUH, bhuvaH and svaH. The quote begins bhUriti vai prajApatiH. I have two questions: 1. There is a curved stroke like a compressed roman u under the letters r, v and j. 2. The anusvAra in this text has a cipher underneath it that I do not recognise - it looks like arabic numerals 99 joined at foot by horizontal stroke. What is the significance of these two marks? Do I need to reflect them in the transliteration? I have never encountered the zatapathabrAhmaNa before. Please don't think too harshly of me! With thanks in advance McComas From a.griffiths at THEOL.RUG.NL Wed Nov 3 22:49:48 2004 From: a.griffiths at THEOL.RUG.NL (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 04 23:49:48 +0100 Subject: Help with transliteration of zatapathabrAhmaNa In-Reply-To: <002f01c4c13f$f66633d0$d80ecb96@fas2annexe17> Message-ID: <161227075238.23782.7412547301283655101.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I do not know which edition you are using, but it doesn't seem to be the standard one by Weber: Weber, Albrecht 1855 The ?atapatha-Braahma.na in the Maadhyandina-?aakhaa. Berlin & London [reprint Varanasi 1964, no doubt several other reprints too]. The curved strokes have to be your edition's rendering of this text's accent marks. Transliterating the ;Satapathabraahma.na correctly, especially its accentuation system, is difficult, so be warned. An introduction: O. B?htlingk, Sanskrit Chresthomathie, notes to his selection from the (p. 395f. of the 3rd ed. by Garbe, Leipzig 1909). Gory details (besides references in B?htlingk): George Cardona, The bhaa.sika accentuation system, Studien zur Indologie und Iranistik 18 [1993], 1--40. Karl Hoffmann, Aufs?tze zur Indoiranistik I, p. 132 Willem Caland, introduction to his edition of the Kaa.nva recension [Reprint Delhi 1983], chapter III, ?1 p. 30f. Arlo Griffiths On Nov 03, 2004, at 01:56, McComas Taylor wrote: > Dear friends > > Allow me to parade my ignorance once more! I would like to > transliterate a section of the zatapathabrAhmaNa (2.1.4.11-12) in > which PrajApati creates the world by uttering the three syllable bhUH, > bhuvaH and svaH. The quote begins bhUriti vai prajApatiH. > > I have two questions: > > 1. There is a curved stroke like a compressed roman u under the > letters r, v and j. > > 2. The anusvAra in this text has a cipher underneath it that I do not > recognise - it looks like arabic numerals 99 joined at foot by > horizontal stroke. > > What is the significance of these two marks? Do I need to reflect them > in the transliteration? > > I have never encountered the zatapathabrAhmaNa before. Please don't > think too harshly of me! > > With thanks in advance > > McComas > From jrasik at COLMEX.MX Fri Nov 5 16:52:17 2004 From: jrasik at COLMEX.MX (Rasik Vihari Joshi Tripathi) Date: Fri, 05 Nov 04 10:52:17 -0600 Subject: Publication of Upasana-cintamani Message-ID: <161227075244.23782.5995873399230095498.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dar Prof.Griffiths, Thank you for your query. I am sorry for this delayed reply as I was away from Mexico. Vasudeva"s Goipalaarcanapaddhati edited by Gayacarana Tripathi deals with daily puja ceremony in Jagannatha Temple and Lak.smii Naatha Bha.t.ta"s Gopaalaarcanacandrikaa deals with Krishnite rituals to be practised daily three times by a devotee, excellent 36 verses of meditation, rituals of Purascarana, parctice of Yoga and easy method to awake Kundalinii.This is a 17th century text edited for the first time. It is most popular in Nimbarka tradition and the results are immediate and wonderful. Rasik Vihari Joshi -----Mensaje original----- De: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk]En nombre de Arlo Griffiths Enviado el: Mi?rcoles, 20 de Octubre de 2004 04:55 p.m. Para: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Asunto: Re: Publication of Upasana-cintamani Dear Dr. Joshi, Thank you for this announcement. Could you please indicate --- for those who are, like me, uninitiated in this field of literature --- in what relation, if any, Lak.smii Naatha Bha.t.ta's text stands to Vaasudeva's Gopaalaarcanapaddhati, published recently by Gaya Charan Tripathi in his book Communication with God. The Daily Puujaa Ceremony in the Jagannaatha Temple. IGNCA / Aryan Books International (New Delhi), 2004. Arlo Griffiths On Oct 20, 2004, at 18:59, Rasik Vihari Joshi Tripathi wrote: > It is my pleasure to announce the publication of the fourth volume in > two parts of my work "Upaasanaa-cintaamani"(Gem of Meditation) in four > volumes eight parts. The fourth volume is an edition of the > Gopaalaarcana-candrikaa by Laksmi Nath Bhatta (17th century). It > includes the edition of the sanskrit text, English and Hindi > translation and copious notes and introduction. The previous volumes > of the Upaasanaa-citaamani are as follows: > Vol.1 in two parts Mantra-prayoga (Application of the Mantras) > Vol.2 in two parts Kavaca-rahasyam (Secret of the Kavacas) > Vol.3 in two parts Sabiija-Gopaala-sahasra-naama thousand Names of > Gopaala-Krsna with Naamaavalii. > > The book is available with Caukhamba Sanskrit Prakashan, Delhi > > Rasik Vihari Joshi > > From annamisia at YAHOO.COM Sun Nov 7 17:39:53 2004 From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Miska Pruszowska) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 04 09:39:53 -0800 Subject: Indology in Poland In-Reply-To: <20041107130725.ESGS2351.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@Winston> Message-ID: <161227075249.23782.17427650612986796328.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There are two Indology departments in Poland: in Warsaw (Warsaw University) and in Krakow (Jagiellonian University). Sanskrit is also tought in Wroclaw and, perhaps, in Poznan. The information about the Indology department of Krakow (Zaklad Indianistyki; website in Polish) can be found at: http://www.filg.uj.edu.pl/ifo/indianistyka.php and of Warsaw (website in Polish and English) at: http://www.orient.uw.edu.pl/index_pl.html Hope it helps, at least as a start, Anna Slaczka. Anna A. Slaczka CNWS (Research School of Asian, African and Amerindian Studies) Nonnensteeg 1-3 Leiden, The Netherlands. --- Lars Martin Fosse wrote: > Dear members of the list, > > I have been trying to find out what sort of > Indology/South Asian studies is > being done in Poland, and where it is being done. > > Are there any webpages that would be of any help? > > Any Poles on the list that could be of assistance? > > Best regards, > > Lars Martin Fosse > > > > > From: > Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse > Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, > 0674 Oslo - Norway > Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 > Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 > E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM Sun Nov 7 18:49:02 2004 From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 04 10:49:02 -0800 Subject: History of Sanskrit studies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075251.23782.9198171503838029374.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am happy that George mentioned Renou. To be added to the list is: Oldenberg's Vedaforschung (1905) and W. Caland, Ontdekkingsgeschiedenis van den Veda ["history of the discovery of the Veda, in Dutch], Amsterdam 1918. A very interesting recent contribution, just as Caland's study in Dutch, is: De late 'ontdekking' van het Sanskrit en de Oudindischen cultuur in Europa, farewell lecture of Prof. H.W. Bodewitz. The upshot of Bodewitz' overview of the history of the late European 'discovery' of Sanskrit and the old Indian culture is the following: romantic reconstructions of the history of the 'discovery' present it as a very difficult one; however, Sanskrit and old Indian culture were not all that difficult to discover for those India-travellers who could invest sufficient perseverance. The main hindrance was the unwillingness of both catholics and protestants to give free too much information (knowledge of Sanskrit grammar) that was felt to be threatening to its own authority. --- George Thompson wrote: > Louis Renou's *Les maitres de la philologie > v?dique* [Annales du Mus?e > Guimet, xxxviii, 1927] should be added to > Francois Obrist's useful list. > > It is narrowly focused, of course, but it > treats in detail the early > ===== Jan E.M. Houben, Directeur d'?tudes, Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes, ? la Sorbonne, 45-47, rue des ?coles, 75005 Paris -- France. J_E_M_Houben at yahoo.com Homepage: http://home.planet.nl/~j.e.m.houben Website: www.jyotistoma.nl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From lmfosse at CHELLO.NO Sun Nov 7 13:07:23 2004 From: lmfosse at CHELLO.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 04 14:07:23 +0100 Subject: Indology in Poland Message-ID: <161227075246.23782.5386074362824095491.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of the list, I have been trying to find out what sort of Indology/South Asian studies is being done in Poland, and where it is being done. Are there any webpages that would be of any help? Any Poles on the list that could be of assistance? Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no From sellmers at GMX.DE Sun Nov 7 21:55:58 2004 From: sellmers at GMX.DE (Sven Sellmer) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 04 22:55:58 +0100 Subject: Indology in Poland Message-ID: <161227075254.23782.12645084534567491963.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Lars Martin, in addition to the message by Ms. Slaczka, I can confirm that indological research, albeit not on the department level, is being done in Poznan (Sanskrit, Hindi and Tamil). And as far as I know there are also indologists at the Catholic University of Lublin (KUL). Best regards, Sven Sellmer Department of Oriental Studies Adam Mickiewicz University ul. Miedzychodzka 5 60-371 Poznan sellmers at gmx.de From gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Nov 8 08:46:38 2004 From: gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (gruenendahl) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 04 08:46:38 +0000 Subject: Indology in Poland In-Reply-To: <20041107173953.23190.qmail@web12202.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227075256.23782.12149074334851264763.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Krakow and Warsaw websites have been listed for quite some time under: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm#IndolSem (s.v. Poland) I'd like to take the opportunity to ask for additions and corrections. Many thanks in advance Reinhold Gr?nendahl ******************************************************************** Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 G?ttingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 Fax (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 23 61 gruenen at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM Mon Nov 8 18:16:39 2004 From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 04 10:16:39 -0800 Subject: mini-seminar Vedic studies: 12 november Message-ID: <161227075258.23782.12317697002006773183.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> For Indologists in the Netherlands and Belgium: The Association of Friends of the Kern Institute has the pleasure to invite you to attend the following activity on Vedic Studies: Vedic Studies: archeology, linguistics and vedic religion Mini-seminar on the occasion of the 65th birthday of Prof. Henk Bodewitz 12 November 2004 Venue: University of Leiden, Nonnensteeg 1-3, room 329. The programme is as follows: ? 15:00 Opening ? 15:15 Prof. Dr. Asko Parpola (Helsinki): "Vedic religion from the perspective of Eurasian archaeology and linguistics: On the cult of the twin gods (the A?vins) associated with the horse-drawn chariot" ? 16:00 Response by Prof. H.W. Bodewitz ? 16:15 Presentation of The Vedas: Texts, Language and Ritual: Proceedings of the Third International Vedic Workshop (Groningen: Forsten, 2004) to Prof. Henk Bodewitz ? 16:30 ? 18:00 Drinks in the Canteen, opposite to room 329 J.H. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG Wed Nov 10 03:18:02 2004 From: dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG (Dean Anderson) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 04 21:18:02 -0600 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: <4185BBDC.5030007@u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <161227075260.23782.1865556490637215991.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Andrew and Stefan, Thank you for the reply. It's quite possible that I am confused because it has been over two decades since I started working on Sanskrit fonts. But in those days I was involved with all three aspects: designing fonts, writing keyboard software and dealing with encoding issues. From the beginning I tried unsucessfully to get Unicode to adopt a larger character set. I understand why they made their choice but I still don't agree with it. Some of my work was also used by Apple in the early days of creating their Indian Language Kit. Thus I was somewhat distressed to hear that, after all this time, there is still not a workable cross-platform solution. Still it is wonderful to hear that so much progress has been made and I congratulate you all. The reason I asked my original question was because it seemed best to start at the most fundamental level in trying to solve the problem with the Macs and then move "up" from there. This is at the level of encoding. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Sanskrit 2003 font is, technically speaking, not actually a "unicode" font because it does not support the standard unicode language assignments for the upper values. It takes advantage of the larger font size of the unicode standard to overwrite other languages with Sanskrit ligatures and then utilizes the widespread software support for the unicode standard to display the characters in common programs. This is a good solution and one we also used in the bad old days when we only had 256 slots available. The reason I mention all of this is that the problem with Macs may be due to the Mac also using some of those higher values for Mac "special characters" that don't correspond to the PC/Linux values. This was something we had to watch out for in the early days as well. Do you know if anyone has investigated this? If it has been studied and eliminated, then we could look into other reasons for the Mac problem. Best, Dean Anderson >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of >Andrew Glass >Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 10:30 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Devanagari > > >Dean, > >If I understand correctly, your comment may result from a >confusion of encoding, font, and input method. > >"Encoding" refers to the numerical values a document uses to >store units of text. All modern computers can use Unicode for >this. A document encoded as Unicode will be readable on all >other operating systems that support this standard. For >example, there is a unique value assigned to Devanagari 'a'. > >A "font" is a collection of letter shapes that a computer uses >to display the content of a text file. A "Unicode font" is >simply a font that knows which shapes to display for a text >file that is encoded in Unicode. The "OpenType", "TrueType", >"Type 1" and "AAT" are font formats that differ in how they >define and cross-reference letter shapes. The first three of >these work on all modern computers; AAT only works on the Mac. > >"Keyboard layout" (or "input method") refers to the way a user >enters text into the computer. For instance, one can tell the >computer to insert a Devanagari 'a' into a document when the A >key is pressed on the keyboard. Different keyboard layouts are >just different users' preferred ways of entering a particular >script. On modern computers, the choice of keyboard layout is >independent of the choice of font used, and the encoding will >in any case can be Unicode. The resulting files can be freely >shared and edited on different computer systems. > >I hope this clarifies the situation more than it confuses it! > >Andrew Glass >Stefan Baums > From Somadevah at AOL.COM Wed Nov 10 15:41:24 2004 From: Somadevah at AOL.COM (Somadeva Vasudeva) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 04 10:41:24 -0500 Subject: Devanagari [the typsetting and printing of] Message-ID: <161227075266.23782.3489733513746035899.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To my knowledge, there are no unicode compliant typesetting systems currently available that are capable of producing high quality multilingual critical editions. Have you seen XeTeX? (http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=xetex) Works with Unicode Devanagari and Ledmac, you can also use attractive (Venetian) commercial Opentype fonts. Regards Somadeva Vasudeva From isabelle.onians at CLAYSANSKRITLIBRARY.ORG Wed Nov 10 15:37:30 2004 From: isabelle.onians at CLAYSANSKRITLIBRARY.ORG (isabelle.onians at CLAYSANSKRITLIBRARY.ORG) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 04 16:37:30 +0100 Subject: What Ten Young Men Did Message-ID: <161227075265.23782.6802229008732097898.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, Last month I wrote to ask if any of you knew whether any translation of the Da"sakumaaracarita had attempted to reproduce the absence of labials in Mantragupta's story. I will assume that the lack of response means that none are known. Today I have a further question for you. Do any of you happen to know if there is truth to the rumour that some elements of Da.n.din's narrative have echoes in European literature? I am not referring to European texts inspired by nineteenth century translations of the book, such as Mallarm?'s "Le Portrait enchant?" (Oupahara and Soundari) in his "Contes indiens." I would be most grateful to learn if any of the stories find their way into, for example, Boccaccio's Decameron, or indeed to older authors, such as Petronius or Apuleius. The four women, particularly the evil ones, in Mitragupta's responses to the raak.sasa's questions seem like likely candidates. I ask because I [think I] saw such an assertion, once upon a time, in a long forgotten source. Thank you very much in advance for your kind attention. Yours truly, Isabelle Onians From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Nov 11 02:02:04 2004 From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 04 18:02:04 -0800 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: <32B1FB97-3380-11D9-BA2C-000A957FD966@let.rug.nl> Message-ID: <161227075273.23782.15707713956739960623.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > But it uses private/corporate use area of the unicode. So, > while it does not pollute the area meant for other scripts, > documents prepared with Sanskrit 2003 in mind will not work > without that font. Only if a document explicitly uses the PUA codepoints. On any system capable of handling OpenType fonts, however, one would use sequences of the basic Unicode Devanagari characters, and the OpenType features of the Sanskrit 2003 font will automatically map from them to the conjuncts in the PUA. Any text produced this way (and this is what one gets using any of the input methods mentioned earlier) will display fine on other Unicode-Devanagari- capable systems. If, after all this theoretical discussion, anyone should in doubt whether or not his/her computer can handle Unicode, here is verse one of the Bhagavadgita in Unicode Devanagari: ???????????? ???????????? ?????? ????????? ? ?????? ???????????? ????????? ???? ? If that doesn't look right, it's maybe just your email program. You could try saving this email to disk, then opening it in your favourite word-processor (maybe specifying "UTF-8 encoding" explicitly). Alternatively, have a look at the BBC Hindi page (which is in Unicode): http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/ Best regards, Stefan Baums -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Nov 11 03:37:18 2004 From: asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Andrew Glass) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 04 19:37:18 -0800 Subject: Devanagari [the typsetting and printing of] In-Reply-To: <20041110090914.GA367@131-203-240-72.remote.comnet.co.nz> Message-ID: <161227075277.23782.1386970723528928207.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Adobe InDesign is capable of producing high quality multilingual critical editions, and is unicode compliant. However, it is not yet compatible with OpenType features in the Indic ranges. One can get around this problem because it will access any of the conjunct glyphs in a font - they can be entered manually as dedicated units. Thus it can satisfy printed requirements, but fails on the level of document exchange. Of course, InDesign is not Open Source it is very much proprietary. It will work on Mac and PC systems, but not to my knowledge on Unix without emulation software. Andrew Glass From rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ Wed Nov 10 09:09:14 2004 From: rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 04 22:09:14 +1300 Subject: Devanagari [the typsetting and printing of] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075262.23782.16772279824458672862.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 10:04:37AM -0600, Matthew Kapstein wrote: > What is the current wisdom regarding unicode devanagari fonts and > methods of input? For one who wants something easy to install and to > use, that produces an attractive result when printed with a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > reasonably high quality printer, what is most recommended? > > Is there, by the way, a keyboard compatible with the devanagari > that is included in the Titus font set? > > Matthew Kapstein I have been following this thread with interest but am returning to Matthew's question about printing. When it comes to all discussions about fonts and encodings and so on, the quality of printed output is, for me, the central issue. So I'd like to say that although I find unicode fonts useful on web pages, I find them irrelevant to typography. At the moment, I am most interested in typesetting a critical edition in Roman (Venetian), Devanagari and Tibetan. In this work, unicode encodings, fonts, and input methods are no help at all. And, at this point, I can not see how they could be. To my knowledge, there are no unicode compliant typesetting systems currently available that are capable of producing high quality multilingual critical editions. What to do then if one desires high quality Devanagari (or Tibetan) output? One could use `LaTeX' with `Devanagari for TeX' (or `cTibTeX'). If writing a critical edition then perhaps `e-TeX' and `EDMAC' would give one greater flexibility and control. Best regards, Richard Mahoney -- Richard MAHONEY | internet: homepages.comnet.net.nz/~r-mahoney Littledene | telephone / telefax (man.): ++64 3 312 1699 Bay Road | cellular: ++64 25 829 986 OXFORD, NZ | e-mail: r.mahoney[use"@"]comnet.net.nz From k.harimoto at LET.RUG.NL Thu Nov 11 00:31:45 2004 From: k.harimoto at LET.RUG.NL (Kengo Harimoto) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 04 01:31:45 +0100 Subject: Devanagari [the typsetting and printing of] In-Reply-To: <05A1FF58.144A3262.0292DAA8@aol.com> Message-ID: <161227075269.23782.1377849246438043681.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I also find XeTeX attractive, but it works only on Mac OS X. As I understand that the list does not accept attachments, I will upload a sample page to http://homepage.mac.com/kengoharimoto/page1.pdf One can see what kind of output it produces. I'm using Apple's Devanagari MT and Computer Modern derivative PostScript font. In that sample, I'm not using ledmac or ednotes, but using manyfoot package to produce multiple registers for a critical edition. I prepared the source in unicode encoding and typeset using Xe(La)TeX. I find the advantages of using these settings in the following: - commercial grade OpenType/AAT fonts are immediately available - no need for running preprocessors. The second one is especially attractive for me. Debugging the source file is much easier, and one can actually read the TeX source file. > Have you seen XeTeX? > (http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php? > site_id=nrsi&item_id=xetex) Works with Unicode Devanagari and Ledmac, > you can also use attractive (Venetian) commercial Opentype fonts. > > Regards > > Somadeva Vasudeva > From k.harimoto at LET.RUG.NL Thu Nov 11 01:22:48 2004 From: k.harimoto at LET.RUG.NL (Kengo Harimoto) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 04 02:22:48 +0100 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: <000001c4c6d3$e6ac57f0$7eee3e80@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <161227075271.23782.3916446596666975505.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > The reason I asked my original question was because it seemed best to > start at the most fundamental level in trying to solve the problem with > the Macs and then move "up" from there. This is at the level of > encoding. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Sanskrit 2003 font > is, technically speaking, not actually a "unicode" font because it does > not support the standard unicode language assignments for the upper > values. It takes advantage of the larger font size of the unicode > standard to overwrite other languages with Sanskrit ligatures and then > utilizes the widespread software support for the unicode standard to > display the characters in common programs. This is a good solution and > one we also used in the bad old days when we only had 256 slots > available. I looked inside the Sanskrit 2003 and it is indeed to some degree true. But it uses private/corporate use area of the unicode. So, while it does not pollute the area meant for other scripts, documents prepared with Sanskrit 2003 in mind will not work without that font. This does not seem very good. > The reason I mention all of this is that the problem with Macs may be > due to the Mac also using some of those higher values for Mac "special > characters" that don't correspond to the PC/Linux values. This was > something we had to watch out for in the early days as well. Does it suffice to say that the document prepared on my Mac looks fine on my PC as well (except for the fact that Windows demands LF/CR for line ending :)? Document encodings and rendering of the data (where fonts are involved) appear to be very well separated, following the spirit of unicode on both Windows and OS X. Let us hope that people will not start using "special" fonts. I actually do not see the Mac problem here. The only major problem would be that OS X does not support rendering using OpenType font very well yet. Oh, I again was only talking about OS X native apps. Classic Mac OS or Carbon apps, including MS Word, is entirely a different issue. -- kengo harimoto From k.harimoto at LET.RUG.NL Thu Nov 11 02:51:44 2004 From: k.harimoto at LET.RUG.NL (Kengo Harimoto) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 04 03:51:44 +0100 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: <20041111020204.GD15888@deepthought> Message-ID: <161227075275.23782.12460924217671257220.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > Only if a document explicitly uses the PUA codepoints. On any > system capable of handling OpenType fonts, however, one would use > sequences of the basic Unicode Devanagari characters, and the > OpenType features of the Sanskrit 2003 font will automatically map > from them to the conjuncts in the PUA. Indeed. I confirmed. No need to worry. -- ?????? ??????? From silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Fri Nov 12 01:01:59 2004 From: silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Jonathan Silk) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 04 17:01:59 -0800 Subject: email for Prof Ikari Message-ID: <161227075282.23782.10513933315585698320.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> does someone have a current email address for Prof Ikari? Apparently the old Jinbun address no longer works... respond directly to me, please--thanks! -- Jonathan Silk Department of Asian Languages & Cultures Center for Buddhist Studies UCLA 290 Royce Hall Box 951540 Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540 phone: (310)206-8235 fax: (310)825-8808 silk at humnet.ucla.edu From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Fri Nov 12 03:12:54 2004 From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 04 19:12:54 -0800 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: <003101c4c85e$bbaf85e0$7eee3e80@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <161227075290.23782.10529223502834843829.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dean, the Unicode text only specifies the basic letters. The number of conjuncts used in displaying the text is entirely up to the font. The first word, ????????????, for example, is encoded as: KA + U + RA + U + KA + VIRAMA + SHA + E + TA + VIRAMA + RA + E The computer then looks at that encoding, recognises the conjuncts, and if it has a font that provides a proper conjunct glyph, it will use that, otherwise it will use a construction with visible vir?ma. In a way, this mimics the behaviour of a traditional typesetting shop that may also not have lead type for the more exotic conjuncts at all times. Most of the Unicode Devanagari fonts currently available cater to the modern languages and lack some of the conjuncts that we would like to have for Sanskrit. But the important thing to remember is that the encoding of your text files will be the same regardless of which font you use. So you could for example write a text with a Hindi?style Devanagari font that comes with your computer, and then later switch to a Sanskrit?style font with many conjuncts without having to change your text itself. Also, if your computer supports Unicode Devanagari at all, then the Devanagari should always be displayed correctly, even if the currently available fonts don?t make for the most aesthetic viewing experience. That?s what we meant by independence of input, encoding and display in the Unicode model, a significant improvement over the old days, where all three levels were conflated together and where one was dependent on the very particular Devanagari font that one used, making it impossible to exchange texts with colleagues using a different font. Now one can easily write a Devanagari text in one font, later decide to switch to another font, and send the text to a colleague who uses a third font altogether. Those who would like to try Unicode Devanagari fonts beyond those that come with their operating system can have a look here: http://www.travelphrases.info/gallery/Fonts_Devanagari.html But note that most of the fonts described on that page, even if downloadable free of charge, have somewhat onerous usage restrictions. The only truly free Unicode Devanagari font that I am currently aware of is the Gargi font, also linked to from the above page. If you would like more advice or references on how to set things up (though I am no Mac specialist), then please feel free to contact me offlist. Best regards, Stefan Baums -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Thu Nov 11 19:33:12 2004 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 04 19:33:12 +0000 Subject: Request for Ulrich Stiehl's fonts not to be used Message-ID: <161227075280.23782.11470726882438012635.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Ulrich Stiehl has requested that the fonts he has created, e.g., Sanskrit 2003, Palladio fonts etc., should not be used by any members of the INDOLOGY list. I have also removed references to his website from the INDOLOGY website. Please comply with Ulrich's wishes. Best, Dominik From dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG Fri Nov 12 02:21:29 2004 From: dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG (Dean Anderson) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 04 20:21:29 -0600 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: <32B1FB97-3380-11D9-BA2C-000A957FD966@let.rug.nl> Message-ID: <161227075284.23782.12888126425997899651.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I'm glad to hear that it does seem to work with Macs -- at least under OS X. I confess I left the civilized Mac world for the barbaric Windows wasteland some time back so I was only going by what I heard from other Mac users. Does it work with MS Word under OS X? Perhaps they are not using OS X? Dean >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of >Kengo Harimoto >Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:23 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Devanagari > > >> The reason I asked my original question was because it >seemed best to >> start at the most fundamental level in trying to solve the problem >> with the Macs and then move "up" from there. This is at the level of >> encoding. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Sanskrit >2003 font >> is, technically speaking, not actually a "unicode" font because it >> does not support the standard unicode language assignments for the >> upper values. It takes advantage of the larger font size of the >> unicode standard to overwrite other languages with Sanskrit >ligatures >> and then utilizes the widespread software support for the unicode >> standard to display the characters in common programs. This >is a good >> solution and one we also used in the bad old days when we >only had 256 >> slots available. > >I looked inside the Sanskrit 2003 and it is indeed to some degree true. > But it uses private/corporate use area of the unicode. So, >while it does not pollute the area meant for other scripts, >documents prepared with Sanskrit 2003 in mind will not work >without that font. This does not seem very good. > >> The reason I mention all of this is that the problem with >Macs may be >> due to the Mac also using some of those higher values for >Mac "special >> characters" that don't correspond to the PC/Linux values. This was >> something we had to watch out for in the early days as well. > >Does it suffice to say that the document prepared on my Mac >looks fine on my PC as well (except for the fact that Windows >demands LF/CR for line ending :)? Document encodings and >rendering of the data (where fonts are involved) appear to be >very well separated, following the spirit of unicode on both >Windows and OS X. Let us hope that people will not start >using "special" fonts. > >I actually do not see the Mac problem here. The only major problem >would be that OS X does not support rendering using OpenType >font very well yet. > >Oh, I again was only talking about OS X native apps. Classic >Mac OS or Carbon apps, including MS Word, is entirely a >different issue. > >-- >kengo harimoto > From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Fri Nov 12 02:22:54 2004 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 04 20:22:54 -0600 Subject: email for Prof Ikari In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075286.23782.16466762578827213147.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Jonathan: the new e-mail is: ykikari at yahoo.co.jp Patrick >does someone have a current email address for Prof Ikari? Apparently >the old Jinbun address no longer works... respond directly to me, >please--thanks! >-- >Jonathan Silk >Department of Asian Languages & Cultures >Center for Buddhist Studies >UCLA >290 Royce Hall >Box 951540 >Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540 >phone: (310)206-8235 >fax: (310)825-8808 >silk at humnet.ucla.edu From dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG Fri Nov 12 02:24:25 2004 From: dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG (Dean Anderson) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 04 20:24:25 -0600 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: <20041111020204.GD15888@deepthought> Message-ID: <161227075288.23782.15268454046434309365.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Stefan, Thanks for posting that. However I notice your sample does not use many consonant conjuncts -- at least not ones that can't be created using half characters. How good is it at displaying some of the less common, but still widely used conjuncts? Dean >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of >Stefan Baums >Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:02 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Devanagari > > >> But it uses private/corporate use area of the unicode. So, while it >> does not pollute the area meant for other scripts, documents >prepared >> with Sanskrit 2003 in mind will not work without that font. > >Only if a document explicitly uses the PUA codepoints. On any >system capable of handling OpenType fonts, however, one would >use sequences of the basic Unicode Devanagari characters, and >the OpenType features of the Sanskrit 2003 font will >automatically map from them to the conjuncts in the PUA. Any >text produced this way (and this is what one gets using any of >the input methods mentioned earlier) will display fine on >other Unicode-Devanagari- capable systems. > >If, after all this theoretical discussion, anyone should in >doubt whether or not his/her computer can handle Unicode, here >is verse one of the Bhagavadgita in Unicode Devanagari: > > ???????????? ???????????? ?????? ????????? ? > ?????? ???????????? ????????? ???? ? > >If that doesn't look right, it's maybe just your email >program. You could try saving this email to disk, then opening >it in your favourite word-processor (maybe specifying "UTF-8 >encoding" explicitly). Alternatively, have a look at the BBC >Hindi page (which is in Unicode): > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/ > >Best regards, >Stefan Baums > >-- >Stefan Baums >Asian Languages and Literature >University of Washington > From dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG Fri Nov 12 03:56:17 2004 From: dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG (Dean Anderson) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 04 21:56:17 -0600 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: <20041112031254.GI25642@deepthought> Message-ID: <161227075292.23782.6757128145469477064.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I will contact you off-list and we can try to work out a truly free and, hopefully, widely acceptable solution based either on my older font or on other ones that I'm aware of. Dean Anderson >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of >Stefan Baums >Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 9:13 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Devanagari > > >Dear Dean, > >the Unicode text only specifies the basic letters. The number >of conjuncts used in displaying the text is entirely up to the >font. The first word, ????????????, for example, is encoded as: > > KA + U + RA + U + KA + VIRAMA + SHA + E + TA + VIRAMA + RA + E > >The computer then looks at that encoding, recognises the >conjuncts, and if it has a font that provides a proper >conjunct glyph, it will use that, otherwise it will use a >construction with visible vir?ma. In a way, this mimics the >behaviour of a traditional typesetting shop that may also not >have lead type for the more exotic conjuncts at all times. > >Most of the Unicode Devanagari fonts currently available cater >to the modern languages and lack some of the conjuncts that we >would like to have for Sanskrit. But the important thing to >remember is that the encoding of your text files will be the >same regardless of which font you use. So you could for >example write a text with a Hindi?style Devanagari font that >comes with your computer, and then later switch to a >Sanskrit?style font with many conjuncts without having to >change your text itself. Also, if your computer supports >Unicode Devanagari at all, then the Devanagari should always >be displayed correctly, even if the currently available fonts >don?t make for the most aesthetic viewing experience. > >That?s what we meant by independence of input, encoding and >display in the Unicode model, a significant improvement over >the old days, where all three levels were conflated together >and where one was dependent on the very particular Devanagari >font that one used, making it impossible to exchange texts >with colleagues using a different font. Now one can easily >write a Devanagari text in one font, later decide to switch to >another font, and send the text to a colleague who uses a >third font altogether. > >Those who would like to try Unicode Devanagari fonts beyond >those that come with their operating system can have a look here: > > http://www.travelphrases.info/gallery/Fonts_Devanagari.html > >But note that most of the fonts described on that page, even >if downloadable free of charge, have somewhat onerous usage >restrictions. The only truly free Unicode Devanagari font >that I am currently aware of is the Gargi font, also linked to >from the above page. > >If you would like more advice or references on how to set >things up (though I am no Mac specialist), then please feel >free to contact me offlist. > >Best regards, >Stefan Baums > >-- >Stefan Baums >Asian Languages and Literature >University of Washington > From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Fri Nov 12 12:13:54 2004 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 04 06:13:54 -0600 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075300.23782.16967551623030472287.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Valerie: I have been using Madhav Deshpande's Madhushree font (with Manjushree for the transliterated text), but it is not free. However, there is the Jaipur font -- an old one, and I think free. I can send you a copy if you would like (so long as I am not violating a copyright!!).. atrick >I have been following the correspondence about Devanagari with >interest and increasing frustration. Isn't there anyone else who, >like me, just wants a Mac font (or set of fonts) with all the >ligatures for correct Sanskrit? > >I don't see why I should have to buy OS X (and probably a new >computer to run it on) just to try what sounds like yet another Hindi >font. I'm not bothered about Unicode, cross-platform compatibility >and all the rest of it, so long as I can print out Sanskrit teaching >materials with accuracy. (Vedic accent marks would be nice, but I >can manage without them.) > >At least one good Sanskrit (free) font has been available for PC for >at least 10 years now. Why is there apparently nothing for Mac, >apart from the very expensive commercial ones? > >Valerie J Roebuck >Manchester, UK > > >At 7:12 pm -0800 11/11/04, Stefan Baums wrote: > >>the Unicode text only specifies the basic letters. The number of >>conjuncts used in displaying the text is entirely up to the font. > >..... > >>Most of the Unicode Devanagari fonts currently available cater to >>the modern languages and lack some of the conjuncts that we would >>like to have for Sanskrit. >... From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Fri Nov 12 18:28:46 2004 From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 04 10:28:46 -0800 Subject: Devanagari [new unicode font set possible] In-Reply-To: <20041112080523.GA378@131-203-240-72.remote.comnet.co.nz> Message-ID: <161227075305.23782.805937275090319107.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > the Devanagari fonts initially designed by Frans Velthuis for > Groningen and currently maintained by Anshuman Pandey &c. Exactly what we were thinking of! More offlist, and if anyone else wants to keep posted or contribute, please let us know. Best regards, Stefan Baums -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Fri Nov 12 11:25:29 2004 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 04 11:25:29 +0000 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: <20041112031254.GI25642@deepthought> Message-ID: <161227075298.23782.2380514170038054476.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have been following the correspondence about Devanagari with interest and increasing frustration. Isn't there anyone else who, like me, just wants a Mac font (or set of fonts) with all the ligatures for correct Sanskrit? I don't see why I should have to buy OS X (and probably a new computer to run it on) just to try what sounds like yet another Hindi font. I'm not bothered about Unicode, cross-platform compatibility and all the rest of it, so long as I can print out Sanskrit teaching materials with accuracy. (Vedic accent marks would be nice, but I can manage without them.) At least one good Sanskrit (free) font has been available for PC for at least 10 years now. Why is there apparently nothing for Mac, apart from the very expensive commercial ones? Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK At 7:12 pm -0800 11/11/04, Stefan Baums wrote: >the Unicode text only specifies the basic letters. The number of >conjuncts used in displaying the text is entirely up to the font. ..... >Most of the Unicode Devanagari fonts currently available cater to >the modern languages and lack some of the conjuncts that we would >like to have for Sanskrit. ... From mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Nov 12 18:38:07 2004 From: mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 04 12:38:07 -0600 Subject: Navadharma In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075307.23782.16419123938838926235.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> One of the best known groups of Mahayana scriptures is the navadharma of Newari Buddhism. Though very widely mentioned in 20th c. Buddhist Studies -- it was the basis, e.g., for the first nine vols. of the Buddhist Sanskrit Texts series of P.L. Vaidya -- no one to my knowledge has discussed the origins and conceptual basis (if indeed there is one) for the group. Or am I wrong about this? And whether or not I am, when do we first find the phrase navadharma (or navaagama), referring to this collection, turning up in Newar Buddhist usage? In what contexts? Matthew Kapstein From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Fri Nov 12 13:46:35 2004 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 04 13:46:35 +0000 Subject: Mac vs. PC (was: Re: Devanagari) In-Reply-To: <003001c4c85e$52738540$7eee3e80@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <161227075303.23782.8129187001548747054.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In case you don't already know it, there's a marvellous little book by Neal Stephenson (of _Cryptonomicon_ fame) called _In the Beginning was the Command Line_. I was put on to this by Gary Tubb, and it remains one of my favourite computing books. It's very funny, and explores the whole Mac/PC/Linux debate with great good cheer and insight. (It was written before the Mac world went Unix, with OS X.) Dominik PS: I've just found the whole thing on the web! http://www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.html and http://artlung.com/smorgasborg/C_R_Y_P_T_O_N_O_M_I_C_O_N.shtml On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Dean Anderson wrote: > I'm glad to hear that it does seem to work with Macs -- at least under > OS X. I confess I left the civilized Mac world for the barbaric Windows > wasteland some time back so I was only going by what I heard from other > Mac users. > > Does it work with MS Word under OS X? > > Perhaps they are not using OS X? > > Dean > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of >> Kengo Harimoto >> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:23 PM >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Subject: Re: Devanagari >> >> >>> The reason I asked my original question was because it >> seemed best to >>> start at the most fundamental level in trying to solve the problem >>> with the Macs and then move "up" from there. This is at the level of >>> encoding. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Sanskrit >> 2003 font >>> is, technically speaking, not actually a "unicode" font because it >>> does not support the standard unicode language assignments for the >>> upper values. It takes advantage of the larger font size of the >>> unicode standard to overwrite other languages with Sanskrit >> ligatures >>> and then utilizes the widespread software support for the unicode >>> standard to display the characters in common programs. This >> is a good >>> solution and one we also used in the bad old days when we >> only had 256 >>> slots available. >> >> I looked inside the Sanskrit 2003 and it is indeed to some degree true. >> But it uses private/corporate use area of the unicode. So, >> while it does not pollute the area meant for other scripts, >> documents prepared with Sanskrit 2003 in mind will not work >> without that font. This does not seem very good. >> >>> The reason I mention all of this is that the problem with >> Macs may be >>> due to the Mac also using some of those higher values for >> Mac "special >>> characters" that don't correspond to the PC/Linux values. This was >>> something we had to watch out for in the early days as well. >> >> Does it suffice to say that the document prepared on my Mac >> looks fine on my PC as well (except for the fact that Windows >> demands LF/CR for line ending :)? Document encodings and >> rendering of the data (where fonts are involved) appear to be >> very well separated, following the spirit of unicode on both >> Windows and OS X. Let us hope that people will not start >> using "special" fonts. >> >> I actually do not see the Mac problem here. The only major problem >> would be that OS X does not support rendering using OpenType >> font very well yet. >> >> Oh, I again was only talking about OS X native apps. Classic >> Mac OS or Carbon apps, including MS Word, is entirely a >> different issue. >> >> -- >> kengo harimoto >> > From yanom at CC.KYOTO-SU.AC.JP Fri Nov 12 06:25:35 2004 From: yanom at CC.KYOTO-SU.AC.JP (Michio YANO) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 04 15:25:35 +0900 Subject: email for Prof Ikari In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075294.23782.10531489399691771945.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> After retirement from Kyoto University, Prof. Ikari is using two addresses: ykikari at yahoo.co.jp ikari5316 at yahoo.co.jp Michio Yano From dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG Fri Nov 12 22:02:20 2004 From: dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG (Dean Anderson) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 04 16:02:20 -0600 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075309.23782.8872259843069539202.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Was Jaipur one of the original Mac system fonts? If so, it wouldn't violate copyright. But does it have a rich set of conjuncts? Dean >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of >Patrick Olivelle >Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 6:14 AM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Devanagari > > >Valerie: > >I have been using Madhav Deshpande's Madhushree font (with >Manjushree for the transliterated text), but it is not free. > >However, there is the Jaipur font -- an old one, and I think >free. I can send you a copy if you would like (so long as I am >not violating a copyright!!).. atrick > > > >>I have been following the correspondence about Devanagari with >>interest and increasing frustration. Isn't there anyone else who, >>like me, just wants a Mac font (or set of fonts) with all the >ligatures >>for correct Sanskrit? >> >>I don't see why I should have to buy OS X (and probably a new >computer >>to run it on) just to try what sounds like yet another Hindi >font. I'm >>not bothered about Unicode, cross-platform compatibility and all the >>rest of it, so long as I can print out Sanskrit teaching >>materials with accuracy. (Vedic accent marks would be nice, but I >>can manage without them.) >> >>At least one good Sanskrit (free) font has been available for >PC for at >>least 10 years now. Why is there apparently nothing for Mac, apart >>from the very expensive commercial ones? >> >>Valerie J Roebuck >>Manchester, UK >> >> >>At 7:12 pm -0800 11/11/04, Stefan Baums wrote: >> >>>the Unicode text only specifies the basic letters. The number of >>>conjuncts used in displaying the text is entirely up to the font. >> >>..... >> >>>Most of the Unicode Devanagari fonts currently available >cater to the >>>modern languages and lack some of the conjuncts that we >would like to >>>have for Sanskrit. >>... > From dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG Fri Nov 12 22:03:31 2004 From: dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG (Dean Anderson) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 04 16:03:31 -0600 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075311.23782.844971471923272508.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Valerie, I will try to track down some of the Mac fonts I made a long time ago that had a pretty full set of conjuncts including Vedic accents. Dean >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of >Valerie J Roebuck >Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 5:25 AM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Devanagari > > >I have been following the correspondence about Devanagari with >interest and increasing frustration. Isn't there anyone else who, >like me, just wants a Mac font (or set of fonts) with all the >ligatures for correct Sanskrit? > >I don't see why I should have to buy OS X (and probably a new >computer to run it on) just to try what sounds like yet >another Hindi font. I'm not bothered about Unicode, >cross-platform compatibility and all the rest of it, so long >as I can print out Sanskrit teaching >materials with accuracy. (Vedic accent marks would be nice, but I >can manage without them.) > >At least one good Sanskrit (free) font has been available for >PC for at least 10 years now. Why is there apparently nothing >for Mac, apart from the very expensive commercial ones? > >Valerie J Roebuck >Manchester, UK > > >At 7:12 pm -0800 11/11/04, Stefan Baums wrote: > >>the Unicode text only specifies the basic letters. The number of >>conjuncts used in displaying the text is entirely up to the font. > >..... > >>Most of the Unicode Devanagari fonts currently available cater to the >>modern languages and lack some of the conjuncts that we would like to >>have for Sanskrit. >... > From rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ Fri Nov 12 08:05:23 2004 From: rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 04 21:05:23 +1300 Subject: Devanagari [new unicode font set possible] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075296.23782.2523449556067096352.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 09:56:17PM -0600, Dean Anderson wrote: > >From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of > >Stefan Baums [snip] > >Those who would like to try Unicode Devanagari fonts beyond those > >that come with their operating system can have a look here: > > > > http://www.travelphrases.info/gallery/Fonts_Devanagari.html > > > >But note that most of the fonts described on that page, even if > >downloadable free of charge, have somewhat onerous usage > >restrictions. The only truly free Unicode Devanagari font that I > >am currently aware of is the Gargi font, also linked to from the > >above page. > > > >If you would like more advice or references on how to set things up > >(though I am no Mac specialist), then please feel free to contact > >me offlist. > > > >Best regards, > >Stefan Baums > > > I will contact you off-list and we can try to work out a truly free > and, hopefully, widely acceptable solution based either on my older > font or on other ones that I'm aware of. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Dean Anderson This discussion may be moving off-list but I am far from weary of it. Especially as it holds the possibility of being so fruitful. A correctly designed, cross platform, freely available, unicode Devanagari font -- what a mouthful -- would I am sure be well received and widely used. While you are gathering details of what is currently available you might like to assess the Devanagari fonts initially designed by Frans Velthuis for Groningen and currently maintained by Anshuman Pandey &c.: ftp://ftp.dante.de/tex-archive/language/devanagari/velthuis/ These fonts are available as METAFONTs and as PostScript Type 1 font programs in binary format (PFBs). I'm not sure if I've still got a set in ASCII format (PFAs) on my beast, but if needed they are simple to generate from the PFBs using Hetherington and Kohler's `t1utils': http://www.lcdf.org/~eddietwo/type/ Test pages for all the glyphs -- to see them up close -- can be generated from PFAs or Bs with `t1testpage' (bundled in the same). Of special note are the various of families, shapes and weights now available (esp. as of Version 2.11, 16 August 2004). With kind regards, Richard Mahoney -- Richard MAHONEY | internet: homepages.comnet.net.nz/~r-mahoney Littledene | telephone / telefax (man.): ++64 3 312 1699 Bay Road | cellular: ++64 25 829 986 OXFORD, NZ | e-mail: r.mahoney[use"@"]comnet.net.nz From a.griffiths at THEOL.RUG.NL Sat Nov 13 17:38:37 2004 From: a.griffiths at THEOL.RUG.NL (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 04 18:38:37 +0100 Subject: The Vedas: Texts, Language & Ritual Message-ID: <161227075314.23782.8323777931209024981.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> We are very happy to announce publication of the following volume: The Vedas: Texts, Language & Ritual Proceedings of the Third International Vedic Workshop, Leiden 2002 Edited by Arlo Griffiths & Jan E.M. Houben. Groningen Oriental Studies, Vol. XX. Groningen: Egbert Forsten, 2004, pp. X, 658 (cloth). ISBN 90 6980 149 3. 125,? ?. / . Table of Contents: Preface (A. Griffiths and J.E.M. Houben) Introduction (J.E.M. Houben) PART I --- Textual History and Interpretation - S.S. Bahulkar, The Apocryphal (?) Hymn to Pratya:ngiraa in the Paippalaada Tradition - T.N. Dharmadhikari, Re-editing the Maitraaya.nii Sam.hitaa: a Desideratum - Gerhard Ehlers, Old and New Manuscripts of the Jaiminiiya-Braahma.na - Shingo Einoo Notes on the v.r.sotsarga - Arlo Griffiths, Paippalaada Mantras in the Kau;sikasuutra - Konrad Klaus, On the Sources of the AA;svalaayana-;Srautasuutra - Fran?ois Voegeli, On the Kaat.haka Sam.hitaa Hapax pa;suyaj;na and its Relationship with the .sa.d.d.hot.r Mantra PART II --- Language and Style - Dipak Bhattacharya, On y;aat, t;aat, uttar;aat and Similar Forms - Abhijit Ghosh, Problems in Determining Austric Lexical Elements in Sanskrit: a Case from the Atharva-Veda - Stephanie W. Jamison, Poetry and Purpose in the .Rgveda: Structuring Enigmas - Jared S. Klein, Nominal and Adverbial AAmre.ditas and the Etymology of .Rgvedic n;aanaa - Werner Knobl, The Nonce Formation: A more-than-momentary look at the Augenblicksbildung - Georges-Jean Pinault, On the Usages of the Particle iva in the .Rgvedic Hymns - Ulrike Roesler, The Theory of Semantic Fields as a Tool for Vedic Research PART III --- Ritual and Religion - Joel P. Brereton, Br;ahman, Brahm;an, and Sacrificer - Silvia D?Intino, Vision and Battle in Vedic Hymns: A Remark on the Theme of Battle in the Symbolism of Poetic Creation - Cezary Galewicz, Ka.tavalluur Anyoonyam: a Competition in Vedic Chanting? - Jan E.M. Houben, Memetics of Vedic Ritual, Morphology of the Agni.s.toma - Mieko Kajihara, The Upanayana and Marriage in the Atharvaveda - David M. Knipe, Ritual Subversion: Reliable Enemies and Suspect Allies - Charles Malamoud, A Note on abii.s.takaa (Taittiriiya AAra.nyaka I) - Sof?a Monc? Taracena, Dawn and Song in the Vedic Hymns - Asko Parpola, From Archaeology to a Stratigraphy of Vedic Syncretism: The banyan tree and the water buffalo as Harappan-Dravidian symbols of royalty, inherited in succession by Yama, Varu.na and Indra, divine kings of the first three layers of Aryan speakers in South Asia - Stephanie W. Jamison, Response to Parpola, ?From Archaeology to a Stratigraphy of Vedic Syncretism? - Frits Staal, From praa:nmukham to sarvatomukham: A Thread through the ;Srauta Maze - G.U. Thite Vicissitudes of Vedic Ritual - Jarrod L. Whitaker, Ritual Power, Social Prestige, and Amulets (ma.n;i) in the Atharvaveda - Michael Witzel The .Rgvedic Religious System and its Central Asian and Hindukush Antecedents List of Contributors Index of Authors General Index Arlo Griffiths & Jan E.M. Houben From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Sat Nov 13 18:39:23 2004 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 04 18:39:23 +0000 Subject: Shankaracharya of Kanchi arrested in connection with a murder case Message-ID: <161227075317.23782.16967885969356102628.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The news services are carrying the following news bulletin: ------ Forwarded message Saturday November 13, 10:08 PM Ravi Shankar calls for restraint over seer's arrest By Indo-Asian News Service New Delhi, Nov 13 (IANS) Indian spiritual guru Sri Sri Ravi Shankar Saturday appealed to Hindus to keep their calm and not to precipitate matters in the wake of the Kanchi Shankaracharya's arrest in connection with a murder case. In a statement issued in Rishikesh in Uttaranchal, Ravi Shankar urged the people not to make the crisis the religion was going through into a communal issue. He said the news of Kanchi Shankaracharya Jayendra Saraswathi's arrest Thursday had shaken the Hindu psyche. "Saints cannot even think of committing such a crime. At a time when such an accusation has been made, all that one can say is that saints should keep a watch on people around them," he said. Shankaracharya Jayendra Saraswathi, head of the Kanchipuram hermitage in Tamil Nadu, was arrested for alleged involvement in the murder of Sankara Raman, a manager of the Varadaraja Perumal temple in the same town. The arrest evoked strong reactions from supporters as well as critics of the high profile seer. ----------------------------------------- From Scharf at BROWN.EDU Sun Nov 14 18:20:45 2004 From: Scharf at BROWN.EDU (Peter M. Scharf) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 04 13:20:45 -0500 Subject: Devanagari Message-ID: <161227075322.23782.11926817392110350131.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> For simple Devanagari instruction, see the following sites: The Sanskrit Library has developed animations showing the sequence of strokes in drawing each character at: http://sanskritlibrary.org On the reading room page, under "Instructional Materials", click on "Devan?gar? characters". The access page shows the characters in alphabetic order, with the vowels listed twice, first as independent characters, then as diacritics on the character k. Click on any character to view its animation. Click the right arrow to play or replay it. Another site displaying Devan?gar? character animations is: http://sanskrit.claude-marillier.net/alpha.html This site shows alternative shapes of characters for a, ?, ?, ?, and jha not shown at the first site. Peter Freund (pfreund at mum.edu), a Librarian at Maharishi University of Management, has designed instructional materials for Devanagari at: http://www.peterfreund.freeservers.com/ another Pre-Unicode Mac Sanskrit font Vedic Font too. Stephan Baums and Andrew Glass have covered the Unicode standard and transcoding programs in their messages, and Richard Mahoney has brought attention to Velthuis' excellent Devanagari font. The Sanskrit Library has developed comprehensive phonetic encoding schemes (in contrast to input methods, Roman transliterations, etc.) for Sanskrit with conversion routines to each other and to Unicode. The Basic phonetic encoding scheme is posted at sanskritlibrary.org. The purpose of phonetic encoding schemes is to represent Sanskrit sounds in a manner to simplify linguistic processing. My colleague Malcolm Hyman and I have drafted a long paper "Linguistic issues in coding Sanskrit" to be submitted for publication shortly and are preparing recommendations to the Unicode Consortium for Vedic encoding. We organized a panel on the linguistic coding of Sanskrit at the ACH/ALLC (Association of Computing in the Humanities and Association of Literary and Linguistic Computing) meeting in Georgia last year, to participate in which some of you contributing to the Devanagari thread were invited. I will deliver a brief version of our paper at SALA (South Asian Linguistics Association) next week in Stony Brook, NY. I would like to collaborate with those of you who would like to work to improve the data-entry, encoding, processing, and display of Sanskrit. Please include me in your discussion if you continue it "off-line". Sincerely, Peter Scharf -- ************************************************** Peter M. Scharf (401) 863-2720 office Department of Classics (401) 863-2123 dept Brown University PO Box 1856 (401) 863-7484 fax Providence, RI 02912 Scharf at brown.edu http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/Scharf/ http://sanskritlibrary.org/ ************************************************** From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sun Nov 14 23:02:44 2004 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 04 17:02:44 -0600 Subject: Manu In-Reply-To: <20041112031254.GI25642@deepthought> Message-ID: <161227075324.23782.13707064084901195773.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Friends: Hope I am not violating any rules of personal promotion -- but since many of you over the years and months have asked me about the critical edition of Manu -- I am pleased to announce that the critical edition (translation and notes) has finally been published by Oxford University Press, New York. My web site (http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/olivelle/index.htm) will continue to list all errors of this edition, as well as that of the translation published earlier in the Oxford World's Classics Series. Thanks. Patrick From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Sun Nov 14 17:33:12 2004 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 04 17:33:12 +0000 Subject: Indology Cologne (fwd) Message-ID: <161227075320.23782.15851474868298749031.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I shall personally be writing a letter to the Rector's address given below, protesting against the closure of the dept. at Cologne. DW ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:16:53 +0100 From: Joerg.Gengnagel at urz.uni-heidelberg.de To: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: Indology Cologne Dear Dominik, this message has been posted on the German "Indologie" Liste. I have not yet seen it on Indology. There might be reasons for this that I am not aware of. However, I?ve got the impression that the work done in Cologne has been also received favorably on an international level. Best wishes Joerg Gengnagel South Asia Institute Heidelberg Sehr geehrte Kolleginnen und Kollegen, gestern, am Mittwoch, dem 10.11., wurde auf einer Sitzung der Philosophischen Fakult?t der Universit?t zu K?ln beschlossen, da? der Lehrstuhl f?r Indologie und Tamilistik in K?ln nach meiner Emeritierung im M?rz 2006 nicht wiederbesetzt und damit das Institut geschlossen werden soll. Ich selbst wurde erst am Abend zuvor (gegen 19.00 Uhr) vom Dekan und Prodekan dar?ber informiert, da? die Abstimmung am folgenden Tag im Rahmen der Fakult?tssitzung stattfinden sollte. Diese Entscheidung ist zum gegenw?rtigen Zeitpunkt lediglich fakult?tsintern. Sollte dieser Beschlu? tats?chlich durchgesetzt werden, so w?rde dies einerseits den Verlust eines weiteren indologischen Lehrstuhls sowie andererseits die Vernichtung einer gesamten Teildisziplin, der Tamilistik, in Deutschland bedeuten. Dar?ber hinaus w?re die Indologie nur ein Anfang. Weitere sog. "kleinere" F?cher werden mit Sicherheit folgen. Ebenfalls mu? davon ausgegangen werden, da? angesichts des zur Zeit in Deutschland herrschenden politischen Klimas das Verhalten der Universit?t K?ln kein Einzelfall bleiben wird. Ich w?re Ihnen daher f?r eine Bekundung Ihrer Solidarit?t dankbar. Ein entsprechendes Schreiben gegen die drohende Schlie?ung des Faches Indologie und Tamilistik an der Universit?t zu K?ln senden Sie bitte direkt an die folgende Anschrift: An den Rektor der Universit?t zu K?ln Albertus-Magnus-Platz 50923 K?ln Mit bestem Dank im voraus und freundlichem Gru? Ihr D. B. Kapp db.kapp at uni-koeln.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear colleagues, yesterday, on Wednesday 10 November, the Faculty of Philosophy of the University of Cologne decided that the Cologne Institute of Indology and Tamil Studies will be closed down after my retirement in March 2006. This decision was reached at faculty level, but if it is carried out, it would mean not only the loss of yet another South Asian Studies chair, but also the destruction of the entire discipline "Tamil Studies" in Germany. I would like to ask you herewith to express your solidarity. Please send your note of protest against the demise of Indology at the University of Cologne to the following address: University of Cologne The Rector Albertus-Magnus-Platz D-50923 Cologne Germany Thanking you in advance, Yours, Prof. Dr. D. B. Kapp Institute of Indology and Tamil Studies Director db.kapp at uni-koeln.de From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Mon Nov 15 04:30:04 2004 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 04 20:30:04 -0800 Subject: H-ASIA: Disaster at University of Hawaii Manoa, Library Flooded Message-ID: <161227075331.23782.16744796509241043679.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> H-ASIA November 14, 2004 Heavy rains lead to flash flooding through campus of the University of Hawai'i Manoa on October 30: Hamilton Library devastated. ************************************************************************ From: Frank Conlon My friend and colleague Frank Joseph Shulman just altered me to a fact which had not appeared in my news media in Boulder or Seattle, namely that on the evening of October 30, following twenty-four hours of heavy rain, a flash flood decimated portions of the Manoa campus of the University of Hawai'i. The news bulletin on the Library Journal website gives an overview: The University of Hawaii (UH) at Manoa, October 30, sustained major flood damage, destroying priceless collections and knocking out much of the librarys computing capability. According to reports in The Kaleo, the UH student newspaper, as many as 35 buildings on campus were damaged, with the Hamilton Library hit hardest. The paper claims a "six to seven foot wall of water" swept through the librarys ground floor. UH president David McClain told reporters that over a ton of dry ice has already been brought in to help preserve damaged documents, a process that involves freezing them while wet. McClain said it would take time to assess the full extent of the damages. Fortunately, the library was closed, and the few people that were in the library were able to escape the flood unharmed. While a more detailed assessment of the damage is still to come, an email message from UH librarian Gwen Sinclair, UH-Manoas head of government documents & maps, hinted at the magnitude of the destruction. The ground floor that flooded, Sinclair reported, housed the librarys government documents and map collections, as well as the technical services departments. "The force of the flood water was so great that it knocked out walls, broke windows, moved fully loaded map cases, and knocked over our stacks," she wrote. The above story doesn't begin to tell the story. For a most vivid and sickening visual record of the flood, please consult the special coverage on the flooding at the UH web site: provides a series of slide photos of the damage--for my money--the worst are the pictures of the new mold farms that have come up on the books and papers. Six feet of feet of flood water filled the lower floor of Hamilton Library. The government documents section was destroyed; all library servers and most computers were flooded out; the map room (including the invaluable collection of Pacific area maps and related materials) and the photo collections were inundated, and much of the cataloging department was also flooded. There were other important research and teaching buildings also damaged severely, in particular the Bio-Medical Sciences Building where major long-term research projects were washed away. The area has been declared a state disaster area by Hawai'i's governor, Linda Lingle. The Library web page offers many links at the following basic URL: The total damage in terms of physical destruction has not yet been fully documented, but it will run into millions of dollars. It is too early to know how successful will be the efforts at conservation and restoration using freezing techniques, but restoration will take years and may never enable a full recovery. Our hearts go out to our colleagues in the Hamilton Library and in the University of Hawai'i generally. May I urge H-ASIA members to consider adjusting their end of year charitable donations to include directing some of their generosity toward the Library Enrichment and Flood Relief Fund at the University of Hawai'i Foundation? The folks at Manoa are making heroic efforts to save as much of the valuable collections as possible. Some of you may recall that back in the summer of 1997, the library at Colorado State University was devastated by a flash flood. CSU's experience will provide some precedents for recovery efforts, but Fort Collins' climate is a dry one, Honolulu's is not. Also, CSU was able to link up with neighboring institutional libraries at Greeley and Boulder, both a short drive away--Honolulu is not a short drive from anywhere, but Honolulu. So help really is needed. A secure online donation site may be reached at: And may I ask UH members of H-ASIA to keep us posted on progress? Frank Conlon Co-editor, H-ASIA Professor Emeritus University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195-3560 ****************************************************************** To post to H-ASIA simply send your message to: For holidays or short absences send post to: with message: SET H-ASIA NOMAIL Upon return, send post with message SET H-ASIA MAIL H-ASIA WEB HOMEPAGE URL: http://h-net.msu.edu/~asia/ From dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG Mon Nov 15 06:36:24 2004 From: dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG (Dean Anderson) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 04 00:36:24 -0600 Subject: Manu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075333.23782.14068756289662990098.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Are there rules against (reasonably concise) personal promotion on this list? Personally, I look forward to announcements here by scholars about their publications. Dean Anderson >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of >Patrick Olivelle >Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 5:03 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Manu > > >Friends: > >Hope I am not violating any rules of personal promotion -- but >since many of you over the years and months have asked me >about the critical edition of Manu -- > >I am pleased to announce that the critical edition (translation and >notes) has finally been published by Oxford University Press, >New York. My web site >(http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/olivelle/index.htm) >will >continue to list all errors of this edition, as well as that >of the translation published earlier in the Oxford World's >Classics Series. > >Thanks. > >Patrick > From ferenc.ruzsa at ELTE.HU Mon Nov 15 08:19:21 2004 From: ferenc.ruzsa at ELTE.HU (Ferenc Ruzsa) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 04 09:19:21 +0100 Subject: Request for Ulrich Stiehl's fonts not to be used Message-ID: <161227075335.23782.5589505332303491275.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dominik, could you elaborate? I have downloaded the Sanskrit 2003 font from Omkarananda Ashram's homepage, where no restriction of any kind was hinted at, and no special prerogatives of Ulrich Stiehl were stated. But I am also interested in the morale of the thing -- is being on this list somewhat similar to being a black gay woman? Yours, Ferenc -------------------------------------------------------- Ferenc Ruzsa, PhD associate professor of philosophy E?tv?s Lor?nd University, Budapest e-mail: ferenc.ruzsa at elte.hu ----- Original Message ----- > Ulrich Stiehl has requested that the fonts he has created, e.g., Sanskrit > 2003, Palladio fonts etc., should not be used by any members of the > INDOLOGY list. From ferenc.ruzsa at ELTE.HU Mon Nov 15 08:42:39 2004 From: ferenc.ruzsa at ELTE.HU (Ferenc Ruzsa) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 04 09:42:39 +0100 Subject: Devanagari Message-ID: <161227075337.23782.4190052405561430734.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> For Ms Word users only: I have written a small macro (100 lines) that converts the selected text (in roman characters, Unicode encoding, e.g. Times IndUni or Gandhari Unicode font) to Unicode Devanagari (e.g. Arial Unicode MS or Sanskrit 2003). Of course it is slow, on my system 2500 characters / sec. It has been tested for Microsoft Word 2002 (running under Windows XP Home Edition), but it uses fairly standard Visual Basic programming only, so probably it works with other versions as well. I have no homepage, but I would be pleased to send it in e-mail to anybody. (If some of you could host it on their homepage, that would be wonderful). Greetings, Ferenc -------------------------------------------------------- Ferenc Ruzsa, PhD associate professor of philosophy E?tv?s Lor?nd University, Budapest e-mail: ferenc.ruzsa at elte.hu From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Mon Nov 15 09:59:23 2004 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 04 09:59:23 +0000 Subject: sankaracraya arrested (fwd) Message-ID: <161227075339.23782.11041041276377646621.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:12:52 +0100 From: Ute Huesken To: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Subject: sankaracraya arrested Dear Dominik, Hope all is fine with you! Since the topic "sankaracarya arrested (in connection with the murder case within the varadaraja temple)" is directly connected to my current research project i would be very grateful if you could post a message to the Indology list (unfortunately i am not a member) for me indicating that I would appreciate every bit of information (print or electronic media, gossip, or elsewhere) regarding this incident (address: ute.huesken at gmx.de). Thanks a lot Ute -- PD Dr. Ute Huesken Research Fellow Collaborative Research Center 619 "Dynamics of Ritual" Heidelberg University Subproject A 3: Ritual traditions in the south Indian temple city of Kancipuram http://www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de/ office: South Asia Institute Classical Indology Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 D-69120 Heidelberg phone: +49(0)6221/54-4940 fax: +49(0)6221/54-6338 private address: Lehmkuhle 31 D-37130 Gleichen phone: +49(0)5508-923686 From adeo at STANFORD.EDU Mon Nov 15 18:20:34 2004 From: adeo at STANFORD.EDU (Ashwini Sharad Deo) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 04 10:20:34 -0800 Subject: The Imperfective Participle Message-ID: <161227075347.23782.17880888551807707166.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello, In Tulsi Ramayana, the imperfective participle is often the bare predicate in a clause (without any auxiliary verb.) For example: guna avaguna jAnata saba koi -------- tulasI raghubara nAma ke barana birAjata dou ---------- gAvata guna sura muni bara bAnI ------ (sentences from BAlakANDa) Sometimes, these bare predicates must be understood to have past reference based on the context, and sometimes they have present reference (in narration or description.) Is the precise distribution of this participle for Old or Middle Hindi/Awadhi known? Also is there such a use of this form in Prakrit where the bare imperfective participle may be used with both present and past interpretation? Any information would be appreciated. thanks, Ashwini Deo From yanom at CC.KYOTO-SU.AC.JP Mon Nov 15 03:03:49 2004 From: yanom at CC.KYOTO-SU.AC.JP (Michio YANO) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 04 12:03:49 +0900 Subject: visit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075326.23782.8929334740604844803.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dr Peter Scharf I am planning to visit Providence to see Prof. Pingree in the beginning of January. If you have time in January 3 or 4 I would like to see you in Brown. With best wishes, Michio YANO Tel +81-75-705-1781 Faculty of Cultural Studies Fax +81-75-705-1799 Kyoto Sangyo University e-mail: yanom at cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp Kyoto 603-8555 Japan http://www.kyoto-su.ac.jp/~yanom/ From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Mon Nov 15 11:06:36 2004 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 04 12:06:36 +0100 Subject: Posting of book announcements (from the INDOLOGY guidelines) Message-ID: <161227075342.23782.3412410976178720269.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dean Anderson asked whether INDOLOGY accepts publication announcements. The short answer is: yes. The long answer is in the INDOLOGY guidelines, accessible at http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html, "LISTSERV: membership & rules" in the left hand menu: "6. Encouraged forms of communication: Members may start discussions, ask or answer questions, post announcements of publications, meetings, conferences or other forms of events characteristic of academia. Job announcements are equally welcome. Announcement of book publications as well as of new journal issues on the part of their authors or editors is welcome. Book catalogues may be linked to the list web-page upon request, but should not be posted directly to the list. 7. Discouraged forms of communications: List members are discouraged from posting messages that are not part of a discourse on indology. In particular, commercial or advertising messages are strongly deprecated, and may lead to suspension. (On the other hand, authors are positively encouraged to post news of their recent academic publications.)" Best regards, Birgit Kellner From yanom at CC.KYOTO-SU.AC.JP Mon Nov 15 03:11:51 2004 From: yanom at CC.KYOTO-SU.AC.JP (Michio YANO) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 04 12:11:51 +0900 Subject: visit In-Reply-To: <20041115030349.9CAEC757D9@ccnic2.kyoto-su.ac.jp> Message-ID: <161227075328.23782.13807170055948934412.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sorry for sending my personal e-mail to this mailing list. Michio Yano From dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG Mon Nov 15 20:55:56 2004 From: dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG (Dean Anderson) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 04 14:55:56 -0600 Subject: Posting of book announcements (from the INDOLOGY guidelines) In-Reply-To: <41988DBC.6010106@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <161227075349.23782.9511291310975272432.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you for posting that. I had seen a few posted earlier so I assumed it was OK. I wanted to encourage more announcements like Patrick Olivelle's so that the valuable research of members of this list does not go overlooked. Best, Dean >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of >Birgit Kellner >Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 5:07 AM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Posting of book announcements (from the INDOLOGY guidelines) > > >Dean Anderson asked whether INDOLOGY accepts publication announcements. > >The short answer is: yes. > >The long answer is in the INDOLOGY guidelines, accessible at http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html, "LISTSERV: membership & rules" in the left hand menu: "6. Encouraged forms of communication: Members may start discussions, ask or answer questions, post announcements of publications, meetings, conferences or other forms of events characteristic of academia. Job announcements are equally welcome. Announcement of book publications as well as of new journal issues on the part of their authors or editors is welcome. Book catalogues may be linked to the list web-page upon request, but should not be posted directly to the list. 7. Discouraged forms of communications: List members are discouraged from posting messages that are not part of a discourse on indology. In particular, commercial or advertising messages are strongly deprecated, and may lead to suspension. (On the other hand, authors are positively encouraged to post news of their recent academic publications.)" Best regards, Birgit Kellner From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Mon Nov 15 16:19:21 2004 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 04 16:19:21 +0000 Subject: Request for Ulrich Stiehl's fonts not to be used In-Reply-To: <00db01c4caeb$d00f5e90$1607b59d@elte.hu> Message-ID: <161227075344.23782.4167776907414127087.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Ferenc Ruzsa wrote: > is being on this list somewhat similar to being a black gay woman? :-) I've always thought so. Indologists are a bit like Mac users in that respect: we think of ourselves as members of a persecuted minority :-) But regarding Ulrich Stiehl's request, I can only refer you to him directly. He wrote to me as a member of the Indology list committee asking that members of the list should not use his fonts, so I passed on that message. I do not wish to go further into the matter, really. Best, Dominik From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Tue Nov 16 08:46:00 2004 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 04 08:46:00 +0000 Subject: Announcement Message-ID: <161227075351.23782.2117072081345506146.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > I wanted to encourage more announcements like Patrick Olivelle's so that > the valuable research of members of this list does not go overlooked. > > Best, > > Dean In compliance with the above, here is another announcement: "Medieval Kashmir and the Science of History." By Walter Slaje. [Madden Lecture 2003-04. Ed. by Patrick Olivelle.]. Austin 2004. Published by: South Asia Institute, The University of Texas at Austin, 1 University Station, G 9300, Austin, TX 78712-0587. Can be had from the series editor (P. Olivelle) only. Best wishes, Walter Slaje -------------------------- Prof Dr Walter Slaje Hermann-Loens-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) Tel./Fax: ++49-(0)3643-501391 www.indologie.uni-halle.de From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Tue Nov 16 10:10:18 2004 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 04 10:10:18 +0000 Subject: change of address Message-ID: <161227075353.23782.135923611839783098.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Office relocation: As of January 2005, The Wellcome Truast Centre for the History of Medicine at UCL, where I work, will have a new address. Old address: 24 Eversholt Street, London NW1 1AD, UK. New address: 210 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE, UK. All telephone extensions and email addresses will remain the same. Dominik Wujastyk From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Tue Nov 16 18:30:16 2004 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John Huntington) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 04 13:30:16 -0500 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075355.23782.16693837426262160855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Valerie's message leads me to what is probably a rash move. However several years ago (maybe ten), I had a then new graduate student who was struggling with transcribing Newar ligatures for Sanskrit into Romanization. I wrote for her use a simple Mac font with most of the half letters and so on. We then had material that we both could read and worked on the transliteration together. However, it was based on a rather elegant Devanagari calligraphy book (Which I cannot tell you the name of because I have given it to my son to work with for a Hindi project). The font look rather nice as the original glyphs were done in illustrator and then coded into a font in Fontmaker. It does not follow any formal keyboard system but was based on the same key calls as SAsiadiacritic which I also produced and which I understand has found fairly wide spread Mac usage. If any of you want to try the font, please send me a message with your e-mail address in it, I will send you a copy of the font and the coding sheet for the key calls. Warning not all of the subscribed, and superscribed aspects of a ligature show up well on the screen, but they print very well on a postscript (or emulator) printer. If you find any missing components, please let me know and I see what I can do about adding them over the winter holidays (If I stay in Columbus) John >I have been following the correspondence about Devanagari with >interest and increasing frustration. Isn't there anyone else who, >like me, just wants a Mac font (or set of fonts) with all the >ligatures for correct Sanskrit? > >I don't see why I should have to buy OS X (and probably a new >computer to run it on) just to try what sounds like yet another Hindi >font. I'm not bothered about Unicode, cross-platform compatibility >and all the rest of it, so long as I can print out Sanskrit teaching >materials with accuracy. (Vedic accent marks would be nice, but I >can manage without them.) > >At least one good Sanskrit (free) font has been available for PC for >at least 10 years now. Why is there apparently nothing for Mac, >apart from the very expensive commercial ones? > >Valerie J Roebuck >Manchester, UK > > >At 7:12 pm -0800 11/11/04, Stefan Baums wrote: > >>the Unicode text only specifies the basic letters. The number of >>conjuncts used in displaying the text is entirely up to the font. > >..... > >>Most of the Unicode Devanagari fonts currently available cater to >>the modern languages and lack some of the conjuncts that we would >>like to have for Sanskrit. >... From rubberjoel at SAFE-MAIL.NET Tue Nov 16 20:52:55 2004 From: rubberjoel at SAFE-MAIL.NET (Joel Bordeaux) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 04 15:52:55 -0500 Subject: Devanagari Message-ID: <161227075358.23782.3119546960372867152.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello. I'd like to check out this font, please. And thanks very much for your generous offer. My address is jeb2104 at columbia.edu best, Joel Bordeaux -------- Original Message -------- From: John Huntington Apparently from: owner-indology at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Devanagari Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:30:16 -0500 > Valerie's message leads me to what is probably a rash move. > > However several years ago (maybe ten), I had a then new graduate > student who was struggling with transcribing Newar ligatures for > Sanskrit into Romanization. I wrote for her use a simple Mac font > with most of the half letters and so on. We then had material that we > both could read and worked on the transliteration together. However, > it was based on a rather elegant Devanagari calligraphy book (Which I > cannot tell you the name of because I have given it to my son to work > with for a Hindi project). The font look rather nice as the original > glyphs were done in illustrator and then coded into a font in > Fontmaker. It does not follow any formal keyboard system but was > based on the same key calls as SAsiadiacritic which I also produced > and which I understand has found fairly wide spread Mac usage. > > If any of you want to try the font, please send me a message with > your e-mail address in it, I will send you a copy of the font and the > coding sheet for the key calls. Warning not all of the subscribed, > and superscribed aspects of a ligature show up well on the screen, > but they print very well on a postscript (or emulator) printer. > > If you find any missing components, please let me know and I see what > I can do about adding them over the winter holidays (If I stay in > Columbus) > > John > > > >I have been following the correspondence about Devanagari with > >interest and increasing frustration. Isn't there anyone else who, > >like me, just wants a Mac font (or set of fonts) with all the > >ligatures for correct Sanskrit? > > > >I don't see why I should have to buy OS X (and probably a new > >computer to run it on) just to try what sounds like yet another Hindi > >font. I'm not bothered about Unicode, cross-platform compatibility > >and all the rest of it, so long as I can print out Sanskrit teaching > >materials with accuracy. (Vedic accent marks would be nice, but I > >can manage without them.) > > > >At least one good Sanskrit (free) font has been available for PC for > >at least 10 years now. Why is there apparently nothing for Mac, > >apart from the very expensive commercial ones? > > > >Valerie J Roebuck > >Manchester, UK > > > > > >At 7:12 pm -0800 11/11/04, Stefan Baums wrote: > > > >>the Unicode text only specifies the basic letters. The number of > >>conjuncts used in displaying the text is entirely up to the font. > > > >..... > > > >>Most of the Unicode Devanagari fonts currently available cater to > >>the modern languages and lack some of the conjuncts that we would > >>like to have for Sanskrit. > >... From magier at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue Nov 16 21:47:50 2004 From: magier at COLUMBIA.EDU (David Magier) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 04 16:47:50 -0500 Subject: Two First Vietnamese Dictionaries Printed in India (fwd) Message-ID: <161227075360.23782.16058368535833880080.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, I am trying to help a research reference client here at Columbia Libraries, who is seeking any information about the two books listed below, which were published in India in the 18th and 19th centuries, respectively. (Of course, if someone knows where copies of these books might exist and be consulted, he would also be very pleased to have that information as well). Many thanks for any assistance you could provide. David Magier South/Southeast Asia Librarian Columbia University Libraries ------------ Forwarded Message ------------ Date: Monday, November 15, 2004 5:27 PM -0500 From: jtl60 at columbia.edu To: magier at columbia.edu Subject: Two First Vietnamese Dictionaries Printed in India Dear Dr. Magier, It was nice meeting with you. Thank you for your interest in my research. Following are two important dictionaries printed in India that I mentioned to you and were cited by John DeFrancis in his book "Colonialism and Language Policy in Vietnam", 1977. 1. Dictionarium Annamitico-Latinum by Pierre Pigneau de Behaine, printed in Goa, India, in 1771-1773. 2. Dictionarium Annamitico-Latinum et Latino-Annamiticum by Jean-Louis Taberd, printed in Serampore, Begale, India, in 1838. Please note that Annam (Annamiticum) is the name of Vietnam at that time. Thank you for your support and encouragment, *=* James Lap *=* ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- From bb145 at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue Nov 16 22:32:00 2004 From: bb145 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Bindu Bhat) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 04 17:32:00 -0500 Subject: Two First Vietnamese Dictionaries Printed in India (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075363.23782.17316932355725113776.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> David, According to OCLC record 1. Pigneau de B?ehaine, Pierre Joseph Georges, 1741-1799. Dictionarium anamitico-latinum, primitus inceptum ab illustrissimo et reverendissimo P.J. Pigneaux. Dein absolutum et editum a J.L. Taberd. Fredericnagori vulgo Serampore, ex typis J. Marshman, 1838. DLC OCLC: 1869054 STATE LOCATIONS NY NYP CA CUY CT TYC YUS DC dgt DGU DLC lnn IL SOI MA BAT HLS mwn SNN MD JHE NJ PUL PA LYU AS KEI nhn EU eux ffd loa n6i zmf and 2. Taberd, J. L. (Jean Louis) Dictionarium anamitico-latinum ex opere ill. et rev. Taberd constans necnon ab ill. et rev. J.S. Theurel, episc. Acanthensi et vicario apost. Tunquini occidentalis, recognitum et notabiliter adauctum, ad quod accedit Appendix de vocibus sinicis et locutionibus minus usitatis. Ninh Ph?u, ex typis missionis Tunquini occidentalis, 1877. OCLC: 22521588 STATE LOCATIONS NY COO NYP CA CLU CT YUS Hope, this helps. Though the dates are a bit different, I think the reference client is probably looking for the above two. They are both available at several locations including New York Public Library. Thanks, Bindu Bindu Bhatt South Asian Studies Librarian Columbia University --On 16 ?????? 2004 16:47 -0500 David Magier wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > I am trying to help a research reference client here at Columbia > Libraries, > who is seeking any information about the two books listed below, which > were > published in India in the 18th and 19th centuries, respectively. (Of > course, if someone knows where copies of these books might exist and be > consulted, he would also be very pleased to have that information as > well). > > Many thanks for any assistance you could provide. > David Magier > South/Southeast Asia Librarian > Columbia University Libraries > > ------------ Forwarded Message ------------ > Date: Monday, November 15, 2004 5:27 PM -0500 > From: jtl60 at columbia.edu > To: magier at columbia.edu > Subject: Two First Vietnamese Dictionaries Printed in India > > Dear Dr. Magier, > > It was nice meeting with you. Thank you for your interest in my > research. Following are two important dictionaries printed in India > that I mentioned to you and were cited by John DeFrancis in his book > "Colonialism and Language Policy in Vietnam", 1977. > > 1. Dictionarium Annamitico-Latinum by Pierre Pigneau de Behaine, > printed in Goa, India, in 1771-1773. > 2. Dictionarium Annamitico-Latinum et Latino-Annamiticum by > Jean-Louis Taberd, printed in Serampore, Begale, India, in 1838. > > Please note that Annam (Annamiticum) is the name of Vietnam at that > time. > > Thank you for your support and encouragment, > > *=* James Lap *=* > > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Tue Nov 16 22:46:10 2004 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 04 09:46:10 +1100 Subject: Advanced Spoken Sanskrit course in Varanasi Message-ID: <161227075365.23782.10521008289513360033.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear friends Pandit Sadananda Das will run his wonderful Advanced Spoken Sanskrit course in Varanasi, 18-31 January 2005. Pandit Das is a gifted and inspiring teacher, and his course are highly recommended. Details are available here: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/aktuell/ASS05/AdvancedSkrtVara05.htm The course is hosted at http://www.jnanapravaha.org/ With deep bows McComas From magier at COLUMBIA.EDU Wed Nov 17 15:37:52 2004 From: magier at COLUMBIA.EDU (David Magier) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 04 10:37:52 -0500 Subject: Two First Vietnamese Dictionaries Printed in India (fwd) In-Reply-To: <00a501c4ccab$e79bd540$0802a8c0@johnqep3ru12fr> Message-ID: <161227075371.23782.14141970088468230446.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks to all who responded with good information about the Vietnamese dictionaries published in India. My reference client had indicated that he had already searched WorldCat, so it didn't occur to me to try that again: hence my plea to the listservs for information. Imagine my surprise (and embarrassment) to find perfectly good records for the books, and holdings in many libraries, INCLUDING Columbia! A good lesson for reference librarians: when patrons say they have searched a database and not found something, it doesn't mean it's not there! Thanks again. David From a.passi at ALMA.UNIBO.IT Wed Nov 17 11:18:43 2004 From: a.passi at ALMA.UNIBO.IT (Alex Passi) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 04 12:18:43 +0100 Subject: Advanced Spoken Sanskrit course in Varanasi In-Reply-To: <00d701c4cc2e$11606b30$d80ecb96@fas2annexe17> Message-ID: <161227075367.23782.16294524818722086976.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Allow me to add a comment to P. Sadandanda Das's work. So far four of my (ex)students here have completed at least one of his courses in Heidelberg and - last year - in Florence, and have emerged beaming from the experience. I thoroughly envy their capacity to hold real conversations in Sanskrit on most anything and chant all the classical meters in the traditional way. I'm sure the advanced course will prove to be to their immense advantage. This kind of initiative deserves the highest praise. Alex Passi -- --------------------------------------------------- Alex (Alessandro) Passi, Dept. of Linguistic and Oriental Studies, Via Zamboni 16, 40126 Bologna, Italy. ph. +39-051-233133 - fax +39-051-235298 cell +39-338-269.4933. ---------------------------------------------------- From Axel.Michaels at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Wed Nov 17 12:24:46 2004 From: Axel.Michaels at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 04 13:24:46 +0100 Subject: Advanced Spoken Sanskrit course in Varanasi Message-ID: <161227075369.23782.8724746625069187239.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am happy to let you know that next year the already 6th sixth International Summer School in Spoken Sanskrit with Dr.Sadananda Das will be organized at the South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University. Details will follow in due time. For the history of this institution see: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html and then click "Sanskrit Summer School". Sadananda's work has been officially recognized by the fact that the Language Teaching Programmes of the South Asia Institute has been awarded a Regional Teaching Award ("Landeslehrpreis") from the Federal State Baden-W?rttemberg. This enables us for the first time to announce scholarships for interested students. Axel Michaels Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels Direktor der Abt. Klassische Indologie; Sprecher des SFB 619 (Ritualdynamik); Sprecher des DFG-Kollegiums 106 S?dasien-Institut der Universit?t Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 D-69120 Heidelberg Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338 www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Wed Nov 17 20:29:47 2004 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John Huntington) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 04 15:29:47 -0500 Subject: Kabul Museum Message-ID: <161227075374.23782.18379261869102269142.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Good News The National Geographic Announced today at 12:00 EST that they have completed inventorying more than 22,500 objects of gold ivory and other materials from the Kabul Museum that had been hidden in vaults in Afghanistan. I am sure your papers will be full of things but I thought you would like to be alerted to the news early on John From a.griffiths at THEOL.RUG.NL Thu Nov 18 08:20:01 2004 From: a.griffiths at THEOL.RUG.NL (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 04 09:20:01 +0100 Subject: The Imperfective Participle [in Hindi] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075376.23782.2960246817943283883.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Please excuse a poor sa.msk.rta-vaalaa from meddling in Hindi affairs. > In Tulsi Ramayana, the imperfective participle is often > the bare predicate in a clause (without any auxiliary verb.) > ... > Sometimes, these bare predicates must be understood to have past > reference > based on the context, and sometimes they have present reference (in > narration or description.) > Is the precise distribution of this participle for Old or Middle > Hindi/Awadhi known? > Also is there such a use of this form in Prakrit where the bare > imperfective participle may be used with both present and past > interpretation? You can have a look at Thomas Oberlies' Historische Grammatik des Hindi [Reinbek 1998], p. 28 n. 6 (the note appears on p. 33). Oberlies also observes that "Used as predicate (negated with mere na) it may describe "routines of action" (McGregor p. 187)". Oberlies refers for modern Hindi to Porizka 1950, McGregor p. 173-178 and Shapiro ? 27.1 [p. 216-218] and for the usage with reference to past routines to Bloch 1965: 261 (this is the famous Indo-Aryan. From the Vedas ...), to Lienhard 1961: 104-120, Hacker 1963a: 203-204 and de Vreese 1965: 203. He goes on to quote examples from Apabhra.m;sa and early Middle Indo-Aryan. If Oberlies' book is not available to you, I will gladly give the bibliographical details for the references off-list. If you are interested in doing grammatical research using Old/Middle Hindi electronic texts of Tulsiidaas and other Avadhii authors, I may refer you to http://hin.osaka-gaidai.ac.jp/etext.html Best wishes, Arlo Griffiths From kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Thu Nov 18 22:26:23 2004 From: kiparsky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Paul Kiparsky) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 04 14:26:23 -0800 Subject: The Imperfective Participle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075378.23782.15075782661018641449.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Do you have some time this afternoon? Paul > From owner-indology at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK Mon Nov 15 10:33:13 2004 > Received: from lsrv-mail.liv.ac.uk (lsrv-mail.liv.ac.uk [138.253.100.145]) > by hypatia.Stanford.EDU (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iAFIXAP26992 > for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:33:11 -0800 (PST) > Received: from [138.253.100.144] (helo=listserv2.liv.ac.uk) > by lsrv-mail.liv.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.34) > id 1CTlcc-0007fA-Nk; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:30:38 +0000 > Received: from [138.253.100.144] (helo=listserv2) > by listserv2.liv.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.34) > id 1CTlcc-0002MU-Bf; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:30:38 +0000 > Received: from LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK by LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK (LISTSERV-TCP/IP > release 1.8d) with spool id 640648 for INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK; > Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:30:38 +0000 > Received: from [138.253.100.83] (helo=mailhub3.liv.ac.uk) by > listserv2.liv.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CTlSw-0002Lv-3n for > indology at listserv.liv.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:20:38 +0000 > Received: from [138.253.100.181] (helo=mx3.liv.ac.uk) by mailhub3.liv.ac.uk > with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CTlSw-00070L-1g for > INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:20:38 +0000 > Received: from smtp2.stanford.edu ([171.67.16.125]) by mx3.liv.ac.uk with esmtp > (Exim 4.34) id 1CTlSu-00036K-Ew for INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk; Mon, 15 > Nov 2004 18:20:37 +0000 > Received: from elaine17.Stanford.EDU (elaine17.Stanford.EDU [171.64.15.82]) by > smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAFIKYJp030675 for > ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:20:34 -0800 > Received: (from adeo at localhost) by elaine17.Stanford.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9) id > iAFIKYL8022683; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:20:34 -0800 (PST) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) > Message-ID: > Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:20:34 -0800 > Reply-To: Indology > Sender: Indology > From: Ashwini Sharad Deo > Subject: The Imperfective Participle > Comments: To: Indology > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Precedence: bulk > > Hello, > > In Tulsi Ramayana, the imperfective participle is often > the bare predicate in a clause (without any auxiliary verb.) > > For example: > > guna avaguna jAnata saba koi > -------- > tulasI raghubara nAma ke barana birAjata dou > ---------- > gAvata guna sura muni bara bAnI > ------ > > (sentences from BAlakANDa) > > > Sometimes, these bare predicates must be understood to have past reference > based on the context, and sometimes they have present reference (in > narration or description.) > > Is the precise distribution of this participle for Old or Middle > Hindi/Awadhi known? > > Also is there such a use of this form in Prakrit where the bare > imperfective participle may be used with both present and past > interpretation? > > Any information would be appreciated. > > thanks, > Ashwini Deo > From srangan at YORKU.CA Fri Nov 19 20:21:03 2004 From: srangan at YORKU.CA (Shyam Ranganathan) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 04 15:21:03 -0500 Subject: Sanskrit as a Natural Language? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075383.23782.3087749276498609968.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Friends and Colleagues I was wondering if any one could provide me some references to either articles or books in English on the question of whether Sanskrit was ever a natural, vernacular language, or whether what we understand as Sanskrit has for the most part been a formalized language. I ask because I am interested in the question of whether Sanskrit vocabulary (particularly in philosophical texts) has displayed more stability in meaning and function over centuries and millennia, than a language such as English. Thank you Shyam ************************************************************************* Shyam Ranganathan Department of Philosophy, York University, Toronto (http://shyam.org/) Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (http://www.iep.utm.edu/1/editors.htm) (http://www.yorku.ca/srangan/DesiredArticleList.htm) ************************************************************************* From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Fri Nov 19 16:29:41 2004 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 04 16:29:41 +0000 Subject: Devanagari In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075381.23782.9755435549588999980.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you to everyone who contacted me with advice, ideas and even fonts. At present I am getting to grips with two Devanagari fonts from the University of Bologna which are very elegant and appear remarkably complete. I think these may be the answer to the Mac user's prayers. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK >I have been following the correspondence about Devanagari with >interest and increasing frustration. Isn't there anyone else who, >like me, just wants a Mac font (or set of fonts) with all the >ligatures for correct Sanskrit? > >I don't see why I should have to buy OS X (and probably a new >computer to run it on) just to try what sounds like yet another Hindi >font. I'm not bothered about Unicode, cross-platform compatibility >and all the rest of it, so long as I can print out Sanskrit teaching >materials with accuracy. (Vedic accent marks would be nice, but I >can manage without them.) > >At least one good Sanskrit (free) font has been available for PC for >at least 10 years now. Why is there apparently nothing for Mac, >apart from the very expensive commercial ones? > >Valerie J Roebuck >Manchester, UK > > >At 7:12 pm -0800 11/11/04, Stefan Baums wrote: > >>the Unicode text only specifies the basic letters. The number of >>conjuncts used in displaying the text is entirely up to the font. > >..... > >>Most of the Unicode Devanagari fonts currently available cater to >>the modern languages and lack some of the conjuncts that we would >>like to have for Sanskrit. >... From drdavis at WISC.EDU Sat Nov 20 13:06:05 2004 From: drdavis at WISC.EDU (Donald R. Davis, Jr.) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 04 07:06:05 -0600 Subject: Job Announcement: Lecturer and Faculty Assistant Positions in South Asian Language Message-ID: <161227075385.23782.7377833641503364150.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Colleagues, Below is the general announcement calling for applications for instructors during the annual South Asian Summer Language Institute (SASLI) in Madison, WI. SASLI is the nationally coordinated program of South Asia Centers that regularly offers a wide variety of intensive courses in critical South Asian languages (http://www.wisc.edu/sasli/). Please forward this message to potential instructors and please inform your students of the opportunity to have a great learning experience in a great town. Best, Don Davis Dept of Languages & Cultures of Asia University of Wisconsin-Madison ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Hammond" To: "Laura Hammond" Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 11:17 AM Subject: Job Announcement: Lecturer and Faculty Assistant Positions in South Asian Language > Job Announcement: Lecturer and Faculty Assistant Positions in South Asian > Language > > Lecturer and Faculty Assistant vacancies are available in the following > languages (elementary and intermediate and some advanced levels): Bengali, > Gujarati, Hindi, Malayalam, Marathi, Nepali, Sanskrit, Tamil, Telegu, > Tibetan, and Urdu. > > Languages are taught in a summer intensive format. For application > requirements and deadlines, please follow the links below. Dates of > employment are June 6, 2005 - August 5, 2005. > > Position vacancies can be accessed through the following links: > http://www.ohr.wisc.edu/pvl/pv_048938.html > http://www.ohr.wisc.edu/pvl/pv_048941.html > > Please forward this email to any qualified applicants. > > Thank you very much, > > -- > Laura Hammond > SASLI Coordinator > 203 Ingraham Hall > 1155 Observatory Drive > Madison, WI 53706 > Tel: 608-265-4304 > Fax: 608-265-3062 > http://www.wisc.edu/sasli/ > > From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Nov 22 00:44:10 2004 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 04 19:44:10 -0500 Subject: Hindi/Urdu Lecturer position at the University of Michigan Message-ID: <161227075392.23782.16947187012944842688.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Please pass this information to all interested lists and individuals: The Department of Asian Languages and Cultures at the University of Michigan invite applications for an open position for Lecturer in Urdu and Hindi for a one-year appointment, renewable, beginning September 1, 2005. Applicants are expected to have an M.A. in a relevant field (linguistics, SLA , literature, history), experience in teaching Urdu and Hindi as a second language, native or near-native fluency in Urdu, both spoken and written and fluency in English. The successful candidate will be expected to teach courses in all levels of Urdu, and an occasional course in First-year Hindi. Full-time teaching load: 10-12 contact hours per term. Complete dossiers will include a CV, a statement of purpose, relevant publications, three letters of reference and a letter of application. Please provide evidence of teaching excellence. Review of applications will begin on January 15, 2005. The final date for receipt of applications is January 31, 2005. All applications will be acknowledged. Please send materials to Dr. Tahsin Siddiqi Department of Asian Languages and Cultures University of Michigan 3070 Frieze Building Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1285 The University of Michigan is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. Women and members of minority groups are especially encouraged to apply. From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Sun Nov 21 21:49:06 2004 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 04 22:49:06 +0100 Subject: Critical editions in Devanagari with LaTeX (ledmac, utfskt) Message-ID: <161227075387.23782.15441365120610829830.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear list-members, inspired by the recent thread on Devanagari, I (once again) looked for possibilities to typeset critical editions in Devanagari, preferably with LaTeX. The packages utf-skt and ledmac had been recommended to me, the former for producing Devanagari from Unicode transliteration, the latter for the layout required for critical editions (multiple apparati, combination of verse and prose, line- and verse- numbering, and such). (Thanks to all those who contributed to making these packages available, by the way!) I have reached the point where I can produce text output in Devanagari, with appropriate annotation - in principle, that is, because I'm stuck with certain problems. Ledmac requires encoding critical notes in the following fashion: \edtext{This is the text to which the note belongs, and whose line-number is placed in the apparatus}{\lemma{Lemma in the critical note, optional, otherwise the lemma will be the content of "edtext"}{\Afootnote{This is the critical note, belonging to apparatus A}}} Of all this material, only the content of "edtext" really needs to be in Devanagari. This is printed as the main text, and also, unless a special lemma is given, as a lemma in the apparatus. The content of "edtext" can be converted to Devanagari through enclosure with \Nag{ ... }, but in many cases this proves impractical because whatever Devanagari text ends up printed after the code for the critical note gets separated - not surprisingly, a word-final consonant at the end of \edtext{ } receives a virAma, and this is not always how it should be. I have uploaded .tex and .dvi sample files to show what I mean: http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Birgit.Kellner/ledmac_utfskt_test/ledmac_utfskt_test.dvi http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Birgit.Kellner/ledmac_utfskt_test/ledmac_utfskt_test.tex The problem is that a critical note interrupts the Devanagari "stream". From a logical viewpoint this could be avoided if ledmac did its processing first, before utfskt sets in, and if utfskt per default combined adjacent \Nag-tags into one continuous "stream", but I have no idea whether this can be done technically. (It might also lead to problems because Devanagari text occupies more space than roman text, and the assignment of critical notes to lines in the main text might be imprecise if they are computed before Devanagari is processed.) Oh well ... I would greatly appreciate any hints towards either a solution with these two packages, or solutions with other packages - but ideally, with these two, since I'd really like to keep my source files in Unicode. Thanks, and best regards, Birgit Kellner From aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA Mon Nov 22 17:54:14 2004 From: aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 04 09:54:14 -0800 Subject: Sanskrit as a Natural Language? In-Reply-To: <1100895663.419e55afa7e26@webmail.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <161227075396.23782.112357909283132743.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Mr. Ranganathan, You will find a discussion in parts of the following articles of mine, two published and two, as far as I know, soon to be published. The second and the fourth shoud be especially relevant. However, a comprehensive and focused discussion of the issue to which you refer will do the field (and the language politics in contemporary India) much good.: 1996. "The early history of Sanskrit as supreme language." Ideology and Status of Sanskrit: Contributions to the History of the Sanskrit Language, pp. 69-85. Ed. Jan E.M. Houben. Leiden, etc.: E.J. Brill. 2003 "A Different Sociolinguistics for Brahmins, Buddhists and Jains." In Contemporary Views on Indian Civilization, pp. 54-69. (ed) Bhu Dev Sharma, USA: World Association for Vedic Studies, USA. Originally, a keynote address at a conference held in 2001. 2004. "Can the Grammarians' dharma be a dharma for all?" This will be published in the forthcoming Dharma volume of the Journal of Indian Philosophy being edited by Prof. Patrick Olivelle. You can have a look at its "uncorrected proof" version by visiting http://www.kluweronline.com/issn/0022-1791/ under "Articles in advance". 2004. "Where do laksanaika-caksuska and laksyaika-caksuska apply?" Professor A.R. Kelkar Felicitation Volume of Bulletin of the Deccan College Research Institute 62-63 (2002-2003). pp. 105-126. I can send you a pdf of this if you need to read the article urgently. ashok aklujkar On 11/19/04 12:21 PM, "Shyam Ranganathan" wrote: >references to either articles > or books in English on the question of whether Sanskrit was ever a natural, > vernacular language, or whether what we understand as Sanskrit has for the > most > part been a formalized language. From rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ Mon Nov 22 00:20:16 2004 From: rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 04 13:20:16 +1300 Subject: Critical editions in Devanagari with LaTeX (ledmac, utfskt) In-Reply-To: <41A10D52.1070100@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <161227075389.23782.14632331454126495606.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Sun, Nov 21, 2004 at 10:49:06PM +0100, Birgit Kellner wrote: [snip] > Ledmac requires encoding critical notes in the following fashion: > \edtext{This is the text to which the note belongs, and whose > line-number is placed in the apparatus}{\lemma{Lemma in the critical > note, optional, otherwise the lemma will be the content of > "edtext"}{\Afootnote{This is the critical note, belonging to > apparatus A}}} > > Of all this material, only the content of "edtext" really needs to > be in Devanagari. This is printed as the main text, and also, unless > a special lemma is given, as a lemma in the apparatus. > > The content of "edtext" can be converted to Devanagari through > enclosure with \Nag{ ... }, but in many cases this proves > impractical because whatever Devanagari text ends up printed after > the code for the critical note gets separated - not surprisingly, a > word-final consonant at the end of \edtext{ } receives a virAma, and > this is not always how it should be. > > I have uploaded .tex and .dvi sample files to show what I mean: > http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Birgit.Kellner/ledmac_utfskt_test/ledmac_utfskt_test.dvi > http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Birgit.Kellner/ledmac_utfskt_test/ledmac_utfskt_test.tex > > The problem is that a critical note interrupts the Devanagari > "stream". Although I'm using TeX, Devanagari for TeX and EDMAC the same issue can arise. The following code (pre preprocessing) may indicate the solution: %%%%%%%%%% base Sanskrit text (Devanaagarii) %%%%%%%%%% %%%_ + 02:34 base Sanskrit text (Devanaagarii) % checked: %%%_ - AB \VBD %%%_ : t \text{$k.rtaak.rtaapariik.so.aya.m$} %%%_ > l \lemma{$k.rtaak.rtaa@$} %%%_ > n \FD{\MI\ \VP\ \FV\ {\FDN $k.rtaak.rta@$} \LT}/ %%%_ : t \text{$m.rtyurvi"srambhaghaataka.h$} %%%_ > l \lemma{$@vi"srambha@$} %%%_ > n \FD{\MI\ \VP\ \FV\ {\FDN $visrambha@$} \LO\ \LT}/ %%%_ : b $|$ %%%_ - CD \VMD %%%_ : b $svasthaasvasthairavi"svaasya aakasmikamahaa"sani.h || 34$ \VEND %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% N.B. 02:34AB has been broken in two and each half placed within its own \text{}, in your case \Nag{}. Each lemma only refers to part of the text in each \text{} construct. The `@' = `abbreviation'. In your case you may be able to do something such as: \stanza \edtext{\Nag{tasm?dyato}}{\lemma{?tmabhed?t}{\Bfootnote{PV(S), PV(M), PVin; ?tmabhedo PV(Pr); Tosaki stellt fest, dass ?tmabhedo metri causa nicht m?glich ist.}}} \edtext{\Nag{'sy?tmabhed?dasy?dhigatirityayam |}}{\lemma{adhigatir}{\Bfootnote{PV(S), PV(M), PVin; avagatir PV(Pr)}}} & \Nag{kriy?y?? karmaniyama? siddh? s? tatpras?dhan? ||} \& Another option may be to combine both notes into one, i.e: \stanza \edtext{\Nag{tasm?dyato'sy?tmabhed?dasy?dhigatirityayam |}}{\lemma{@?tmabhed?dasy?dhigatir@}{\Bfootnote{?tmabhed?t PV(S), PV(M), PVin; ?tmabhedo PV(Pr); Tosaki stellt fest, dass ?tmabhedo metri causa nicht m?glich ist.\ | adhigatir PV(S), PV(M), PVin; avagatir PV(Pr)}}} & \Nag{kriy?y?? karmaniyama? siddh? s? tatpras?dhan? ||} \& Not sure what you might use for `abbreviation' in LaTeX, perhaps superscript \circ ? Best, Richard -- Richard MAHONEY | internet: homepages.comnet.net.nz/~r-mahoney Littledene | telephone / telefax (man.): ++64 3 312 1699 Bay Road | cellular: ++64 25 829 986 OXFORD, NZ | e-mail: r.mahoney[use"@"]comnet.net.nz From aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA Tue Nov 23 00:42:51 2004 From: aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 04 16:42:51 -0800 Subject: Position at the University of British Columbia Message-ID: <161227075398.23782.12508289840052110108.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, Kindly bring the announcement reproduced below to the attention of all qualified scholars. Most inquiries will probably be better answered by the Chair, South Asian Search, Dept. of Asian Studies, Univ. of British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada V6T 1Z2. However, if the prospective candidates specializing in one or more of the following areas need some specific information pertaining to the study of the areas at UBC, I may be able to supply it (such interested persons, as far as possible, should call me on my office telephone number, 1 (country code)- 604 (area code)-822-5185, before contacting the Chair; I am unlikely to find the time needed to respond to e-mails; messages for me to return the call can be left on 1-604-822-0019): Sanskrit, Pali, Prakrit, Indology in general, early Hinduism/Vedism/Brahmanism, Indian Buddhism, Jainism, Indian philosophy. Many thanks. Sorry for any cross-postings. Ashok Aklujkar Professor South Asian History, Language and Culture University of British Columbia The Dept. of Asian Studies seeks to appoint an assistant professor (tenure track) of South Asian History, Language and Culture to begin in July 2005. The successful candidate is expected to have an earned doctorate, an outstanding research agenda, excellent knowledge of a South Asian language required for her/his research and evidence of excellence in scholarship. Applicants should send a letter of application describing their research interests and agenda, a current CV, and complete transcripts of university-level education, and should arrange for three letters of reference to be sent to the Chair, South Asian Search, Dept. of Asian Studies, Univ. of British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada V6T 1Z2. Letters of application and supporting materials can also be sent electronically to asia.admin at arts.ubc.ca. The deadline for applications is December 15, 2004. The position is subject to final budgetary approval. UBC hires on the basis of merit and is committed to employment equity. We encourage all qualified persons to apply; however Canadians and permanent residents of Canada will be given priority. From rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ Mon Nov 22 08:54:24 2004 From: rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 04 21:54:24 +1300 Subject: [rbm49@EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ: Re: Critical editions in Devanagari ... Erratum] Message-ID: <161227075394.23782.16841824816411083555.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Mistake noted below ... ----- Forwarded message from Richard MAHONEY ----- From: Richard MAHONEY Sender: Indology To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Critical editions in Devanagari with LaTeX (ledmac, utfskt) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:20:16 +1300 On Sun, Nov 21, 2004 at 10:49:06PM +0100, Birgit Kellner wrote: [snip] N.B. 02:34AB has been broken in two and each half placed within its own \text{}, in your case \Nag{}. Each lemma only refers to part of ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ the text in each \text{} construct. The `@' = `abbreviation'. for: \text{}, in your case \Nag{} read: \text{$...$}, in your case \edtext{\Nag{...}} ----- End forwarded message ----- Best regards, Richard -- Richard MAHONEY | internet: homepages.comnet.net.nz/~r-mahoney Littledene | telephone / telefax (man.): ++64 3 312 1699 Bay Road | cellular: ++64 25 829 986 OXFORD, NZ | e-mail: r.mahoney[use"@"]comnet.net.nz From d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK Mon Nov 22 23:45:16 2004 From: d.wujastyk at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 04 23:45:16 +0000 Subject: Critical editions in Devanagari with LaTeX (ledmac, utfskt) In-Reply-To: <41A10D52.1070100@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <161227075400.23782.2023518284904838011.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Birgit, I'm in the middle of doing a small critical edition myself at the moment, using Ledmac. Would it be useful for me to send you my Ledmac input file, and a PDF of the output? It's only half done, so it's a bit scrappy, but the important bits about the use of Ledmac are all okay. Best, Dominik From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Tue Nov 23 17:09:09 2004 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 04 09:09:09 -0800 Subject: Position at the University of British Columbia Message-ID: <161227075402.23782.14373814440698155385.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Ashok, Do you think that someone like my former students Tim Lenz or Jason Neelis would be competitive candidates for this position? Rich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashok Aklujkar" To: Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 4:42 PM Subject: Position at the University of British Columbia > Dear Colleagues, > > Kindly bring the announcement reproduced below to the attention of all > qualified scholars. Most inquiries will probably be better answered by the > Chair, South Asian Search, Dept. of Asian Studies, Univ. of British > Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada V6T 1Z2. However, if the > prospective candidates specializing in one or more of the following areas > need some specific information pertaining to the study of the areas at > UBC, > I may be able to supply it (such interested persons, as far as possible, > should call me on my office telephone number, 1 (country code)- 604 (area > code)-822-5185, before contacting the Chair; I am unlikely to find the > time > needed to respond to e-mails; messages for me to return the call can be > left > on 1-604-822-0019): Sanskrit, Pali, Prakrit, Indology in general, early > Hinduism/Vedism/Brahmanism, Indian Buddhism, Jainism, Indian philosophy. > > Many thanks. Sorry for any cross-postings. > > Ashok Aklujkar > Professor > > > > South Asian History, Language and Culture > University of British Columbia > > The Dept. of Asian Studies seeks to appoint an assistant professor (tenure > track) of South Asian History, Language and Culture to begin in July > 2005. The successful candidate is expected to have an earned doctorate, > an > outstanding research agenda, excellent knowledge of a South Asian language > required for her/his research and evidence of excellence in > scholarship. Applicants should send a letter of application describing > their research interests and agenda, a current CV, and complete > transcripts > of university-level education, and should arrange for three letters of > reference to be sent to the Chair, South Asian Search, Dept. of Asian > Studies, Univ. of British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada > V6T > 1Z2. Letters of application and supporting materials can also be sent > electronically to asia.admin at arts.ubc.ca. The deadline for applications > is > December 15, 2004. The position is subject to final budgetary > approval. UBC hires on the basis of merit and is committed to employment > equity. We encourage all qualified persons to apply; however Canadians > and > permanent residents of Canada will be given priority. > From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Tue Nov 23 17:23:32 2004 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 04 09:23:32 -0800 Subject: Position at the University of British Columbia Message-ID: <161227075405.23782.5361539412177116926.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> List members, Please ignore the message below, which was sent to the list in error. It was meant to be a private message to Ashok Aklujkar. Sorry, Richard Salomon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Salomon" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 9:09 AM Subject: Re: Position at the University of British Columbia > Dear Ashok, > > Do you think that someone like my former students Tim Lenz or Jason Neelis > would be competitive candidates for this position? > > Rich > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashok Aklujkar" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 4:42 PM > Subject: Position at the University of British Columbia > > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> Kindly bring the announcement reproduced below to the attention of all >> qualified scholars. Most inquiries will probably be better answered by >> the >> Chair, South Asian Search, Dept. of Asian Studies, Univ. of British >> Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada V6T 1Z2. However, if the >> prospective candidates specializing in one or more of the following areas >> need some specific information pertaining to the study of the areas at >> UBC, >> I may be able to supply it (such interested persons, as far as possible, >> should call me on my office telephone number, 1 (country code)- 604 (area >> code)-822-5185, before contacting the Chair; I am unlikely to find the >> time >> needed to respond to e-mails; messages for me to return the call can be >> left >> on 1-604-822-0019): Sanskrit, Pali, Prakrit, Indology in general, early >> Hinduism/Vedism/Brahmanism, Indian Buddhism, Jainism, Indian philosophy. >> >> Many thanks. Sorry for any cross-postings. >> >> Ashok Aklujkar >> Professor >> >> >> >> South Asian History, Language and Culture >> University of British Columbia >> >> The Dept. of Asian Studies seeks to appoint an assistant professor >> (tenure >> track) of South Asian History, Language and Culture to begin in July >> 2005. The successful candidate is expected to have an earned doctorate, >> an >> outstanding research agenda, excellent knowledge of a South Asian >> language >> required for her/his research and evidence of excellence in >> scholarship. Applicants should send a letter of application describing >> their research interests and agenda, a current CV, and complete >> transcripts >> of university-level education, and should arrange for three letters of >> reference to be sent to the Chair, South Asian Search, Dept. of Asian >> Studies, Univ. of British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada >> V6T >> 1Z2. Letters of application and supporting materials can also be sent >> electronically to asia.admin at arts.ubc.ca. The deadline for applications >> is >> December 15, 2004. The position is subject to final budgetary >> approval. UBC hires on the basis of merit and is committed to employment >> equity. We encourage all qualified persons to apply; however Canadians >> and >> permanent residents of Canada will be given priority. >> > From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Tue Nov 23 18:05:00 2004 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 04 13:05:00 -0500 Subject: Help on installing fonts on Mac OS 10.3.5 Message-ID: <161227075407.23782.11689478409927694162.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Friends, For the past many years, I have been using an Apple G4 computer (OS 9.1), and using my fonts Madhushree and ManjushreeCSX without any problems. Recently I acquired an iMac G5 computer that runs OS 10.3.5 (Panther), and so far I have not been able to install my old fonts or keyboard layouts on OS 10.3.5. I have too many current projects that use these fonts and if I cannot load them on to the new machine, it is practically useless for my purposes. I am hoping that some of you who use my Mac fonts have figured out how to use them on OS 10.3.5. If you have been successful in using these fonts on OS 10.3.5, please let me know how you did it. You can send a personal message to me (mmdesh at umich.edu). Thanks in anticipation. Madhav Deshpande From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Wed Nov 24 14:25:59 2004 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 09:25:59 -0500 Subject: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani Message-ID: <161227075415.23782.256747486760561073.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There is a book on the GSBs by Frank Conlon [A Caste in a Changing World: The Chitrapur Saraswat Brahmins, 1977, University of California Press] and several important articles by Narendra Wagle (1970: "The History and Social Organization of the Gauda Sarasvata Brahmanas of the West Coast of India," Journal of Indian Hisotry, vol. 48: 8-25. 295-333. Also see my article: "Panca-Gauda und Panca-Dravida. Umstrittene Grenzen einer traditionellen Klassifikation," and its bibliography in Arier und Draviden, Konstruktionen der Vergangenheit als Grundlage fur Selbst- und Fremdwahrnehmungen Sudasiens, herausgegeben von Michael Bergunder und Rahul Peter Das, Verlag der Franckeschen Stiftungen zu Halle, 2002. Madhav Deshpande -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Christophe Vielle Sent: Wed 11/24/2004 8:13 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani Dear colleagues, In the useful little book "Malayalam for beginners" by V.R. Prabodhachandran Nayar (Trivandrum, 1999, Swantham Books publ.), I come across this (Malayalam - a linguistic profile - Bilingualism p. 72): "Pockets of Gaudasaraswatha Brahmins and Chettis ((/ce.t.ti/) who speak two different varieties of Konkani are mostly in the districts of Ernakulam and Alappuzha". Who are these "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins (coming from Konkan where some still remain, I suppose)? Where could I find something about them? Thank you for your help Dr. Christophe Vielle Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud Institut orientaliste Place Blaise Pascal 1 B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve BELGIUM Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) E-mail: vielle at ori.ucl.ac.be From hhhock at EXPRESS.CITES.UIUC.EDU Wed Nov 24 15:36:28 2004 From: hhhock at EXPRESS.CITES.UIUC.EDU (Hans Henrich Hock) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 09:36:28 -0600 Subject: Help on installing fonts on Mac OS 10.3.5 Message-ID: <161227075418.23782.11351699785949846899.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Here is what worked for me: Copy your font files onto a CD, insert the CD into your new Mac, and copy the font(s) into your "libraries". (You can find the libraries, of which there is more than one, serving different functions, including the "MacClassic" operating system, by doing a search [command f] from the desktop.) One thing you should be aware of: On the new operating system, you can still see old bitmapped fonts in MS Word, but they won't print. So you need to convert all bitmapped fonts (even those embedded in graphics) to corresponding postscript or truetype fonts. The "upside" is that once you have only postscript or truetype fonts in your documents, you can use the "print" command, select the 'save as pdf document' button, and you get a pdf-file that recognizes any postscript or truetype fonts, not just the ones that Adobe in all its wisdom considers acceptable. To make sure the document is recognizable as a pdf-file on other platforms you need to make sure to add the extension ".pdf" to your file name. I hope this helps. Best wishes, Hans ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:05:00 -0500 >From: Madhav Deshpande >Subject: Help on installing fonts on Mac OS 10.3.5 >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > >Dear Friends, > > For the past many years, I have been using an Apple G4 computer (OS 9.1), and using my fonts Madhushree and ManjushreeCSX without any problems. Recently I acquired an iMac G5 computer that runs OS 10.3.5 (Panther), and so far I have not been able to install my old fonts or keyboard layouts on OS 10.3.5. I have too many current projects that use these fonts and if I cannot load them on to the new machine, it is practically useless for my purposes. I am hoping that some of you who use my Mac fonts have figured out how to use them on OS 10.3.5. If you have been successful in using these fonts on OS 10.3.5, please let me know how you did it. You can send a personal message to me (mmdesh at umich.edu). Thanks in anticipation. > >Madhav Deshpande > > Hans Henrich Hock Professor of Linguistics and Sanskrit Department of Linguistics 4080 FLB, MC-168 University of Illinois 707 S. Mathews Urbana, IL 61801-3652, USA Tel. 1-217-333-3563, Fax 1-217-244-8430 E-mail hhhock at staff.uiuc.edu Ceterum censeo curiam internationalem iuris criminalis esse instituendam consensu senatus populique americani From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Wed Nov 24 17:46:16 2004 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 09:46:16 -0800 Subject: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075426.23782.13095783206166429011.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> With reference to Christophe Vielle's query-- the Gauda Saraswata Brahmanas are a cluster of related jatis spread up and down the west coast of the Indian peninsula centering on Goa. Among Saraswats, there are varying traditions regarding their origin either as migrants from the far north (banks of the Saraswati) or from the north via the northeast (Gauda). I am not in a position to comment on this issue authoritatively--there is a text, the Konkanakhana of the Sahyadrikhanda of the Skanda Purana which asserts claims, but as if, I think, widely acknowledged, the various recensions of the Skanda Purana, like Skanda himself, I suppose, provide quite different aspects of tradition. Regardless of that, there were by medieval times, centering on the territory that is modern Goa, brahmans who followed both Vaishnava and Smartha religious practices (that is either one or the other). The were of the Konkan region, but must not be confused with the "Konkanastha" or Chitpavan Brahmans who also hailed from places on the coast north of Goa. (I am leaving out many details here.) Saraswats were categorized in tradition as Gauda Brahmans not Dravida Brahmans and were characterized by the southern (Maharashtra Deshasthas, Karnataka, Tamil etc.) brahmans as 'tri-karmi' rather than 'sat-karmi.' Although Chitpavans were regarded by Deshashtas in Maharashtra as lower in status, they were accepted as part of the Dravida division, whereas the Saraswats were not. The status distinctions, some say, originated in the fact that as coastal people, many of these brahamans were known to include fish in their diet. And indeed in Konkani there was a usage of jalashakha (sea vegatable) that may have reflected a jocular recognition of this matter. On the other hand, I know of many GSBs who are pure veg in habits, so this was only one of the building blocks of distinction. Within Goa, the ancestors of today's GSBs were prominent in all positions of dominance, religious, land control, government service AND commerce. Although records are limited, it is clear that the Portuguese conquest of the old territories of Goa in 1510, found Brahmans in positions of considerable power. On the one hand, the 'Christianizing' motivation led to pressure on these elites to convert; while the practical concerns of the Estado da India accepted many of these brahmans as intermediaries and functionaries in both administration and trade. With time, pressure for Christian conversion led many families to take a practical decision -- dividing, with one branch turning Christian and remaining in the Portuguese territories--in modern times, among Goan Cathoic elites, one finds families known as 'bammans'--while others moved, with their family deities (notably Mangesh and Shantadurga, but there were several others) across the creeks into Indian-ruled territory. (I should note that in the 18th century these territories were annexed to Goa, but by that time, the Portuguese were no longer in the 'Christianizing' enterprise.) Even before these pressures, the landed, administrative and commercial families were pursuing opportunities outside of Goa. Some went north, and within Maratha history one finds that Shivaji employed "Shenvis" in his military and civil administrations. Others moved to the south, including some who served in revenue/administrative roles in territories of various coastal sub-states and the intermediary rule of the Nayaks of Ikkeri/Bednur (a successsor of the Vijayanagar domination.) There was also an important coastal trade in rice and spices and Konkani speaking GSBs spread along the coast right down to Kanya Kumari. The Portuguese Inquisition--which was directed less agains Hindus per se and more against ex-Hindus who had 'converted' but were viewed as not fully enthused in the converstion--prompted the movement of some Catholic Brahmans southward toward other posts and trading centers such as Mangalore. In modern times there are 'Mangalore Christians' whose hyphenated surnames retain both an Indian and Portuguese element--one that comes to mind just now is Lobo-Prabhu, but there were others with such elements as Kamath and Pai. These folk remained Catholic, but unlike many Goan Christians, they retained Indian dress and cuisine. Also there were others of the commercial branch of the GSB lineages who moved south and became traders and money-lenders and later prominent commercial actors along the coasts of modernday Karnataka and Kerala. They spoke Konkani at home, and as an internal trade language while mastering the dominant languages of the region, Kannada, Tulu and Malayalam. Over the years they became an enclaved community in many of the towns along or near the coast. In Cochin there is a bazaar area where virtually every shop was owned (at least in the 1960s) by Konkanis -- as they were known. The Konkani language has been written in devanagari, roman, Kannada and Malayalam scripts, and there are dialects that are quite distinguished. If your interest lies toward language issues, there is a long-standing dispute regarding the status of Konkani. Some linguists, historians and publicists insist that Konkani is a dialect of Marathi; others hold the view that Konkani is a distinct Indo-Aryan language. This heated up quite a bit in the 1960s when the former Portuguese territories of Goa were proposed to be merged into the Indian state of Maharashtra. For a number of reasons this was narrowly defeated in a referendum and Goa is now a state of the Indian union. So, Konkanis aka Gauda Saraswatha Brahams are indeed in Kerala, primarily an urban population, with a heritage of commerce; of course today members of those families are spread all over the world and make their mark in wide number of arenas. I confess that my 'off the top of the head' response has its roots in a book I wrote some years ago, alas now out of print, on one of the divisions of the GSB cluster, _A Caste in a Changing World: The Chitrapur Saraswat Brahmans, 1700-1935_ Berkeley: Univ. of California Press, 1977 ISBN 0520029984. LCCN 78100339 75007192 OCLC # 3892213 Unaccountably, when I compiled the bibliography for that volume, I misplaced (and left out) reference to two valuable articles by my friend Narendra Wagle in the _Journal of Indian History_ 48 (1970) 8-25, 295-333. Other materials that are, alas, important and difficult to obtain are: Kudva, Venkataraya Narayan, 1898-1961 _History of the Dakshinatya Saraswats_ Madras, Samyukta Gowda Saraswata Sabha [1972] LCCN 72905916 /SA OCLC # 658817 Keni, Chandrakanta, compiler _Saraswats in Goa and beyond_ Vasco-da-Gama, Goa : Murgaon Mutt Sankul Samiti, 1998 LCCN 99932716 OCLC # 41143421 Gauda Sarasvata Samaja paricaya grantha / Ravindra Patakara; nirmiti-sankalpana ani mukhya sampadana sahayyaka Pramoda Tendulakara, Sudhakara Lotalikara Mumbai : Sarasvata Prakasana, 1994- in Marathi LCCN 94905751 OCLC # 32201230 Sharma, Ganesa Ramacandra, _Sarasvata Bhusana_ Mumbai: Popular Book Depot, 1950. in Marathi Chavan, V. P. _Vaishnavism of the Goud Saraswat Brahmins, etc. and a few Konkani Folklore Tales_ Bombay: Ramachandra, Govind and Sons, 1928 Colonial ethnographies appear in various volumes of the Gazetteer of the Bombay Presidency, the South Canara District Manual, L. K. Anantha Krishna Iyer's _The Cochin Tribes and Castes_ (Cochin: Government of Cochin, 1909-1912); R. E. Enthoven, _Tribes and Castes of the Bombay Presidency_ (Bombay, 1920-22). Gereon, P. "The Konkani-Brahiminen der Malaburkuste" _Anthropos_ 32 (1937) 335-339 Saldanha, Jerome Anthony, _The Indian Caste, Vol. 1: Konkani or Goan Castes_ Sirsi, North Kanara dt., author?, 1904. Konkani's political aspect may be seen in the interest of various places where it is spoken, in asserting a distinctive character. In the 1960s, the Maharashtra State Board for Literature and Culture sponsored a series of linguistic studies on Konkani dialects; an example is: Ghatage, Amrit Madhav, _Konkani of South Kanara_ Bombay, State Board for Literature and Culture, 1963 Series Survey of Marathi dialects, 1 LCCN sa 68002999 OCLC # 473843 An down in Cochin, there were a clutch of "Konkani patriots" who regularly publicized the contributions of Konkanis to Kerala's history and progress, and promoted study of Konkani: Rava, Ara. Ke [Rao, A. K.] Konkani svayamsikshaa_ Cochin : Konkani Language Institute ; [Ernakulam : sole distributors, Pai], 1975Series Konkani Language Institute book series ; 1 Series Konkani Language Institute book series ; no. 1 LCCN 79902921 /SA OCLC # 9081899 Hope this gives you some leads. Frank Frank Conlon Co-editor, H-ASIA Managing Director, Bibliography of Asian Studies Online Professor Emeritus University of Washington Seattle, WA, 98195-3560 USA On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Christophe Vielle wrote: > Dear colleagues, > In the useful little book "Malayalam for beginners" by V.R. > Prabodhachandran Nayar (Trivandrum, 1999, Swantham Books publ.), I come > across this (Malayalam - a linguistic profile - Bilingualism p. 72): > "Pockets of Gaudasaraswatha Brahmins and Chettis ((/ce.t.ti/) who speak two > different varieties of Konkani are mostly in the districts of Ernakulam and > Alappuzha". > Who are these "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins (coming from Konkan where some > still remain, I suppose)? Where could I find something about them? > Thank you for your help > > Dr. Christophe Vielle > Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud > Institut orientaliste > Place Blaise Pascal 1 > B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve > BELGIUM > Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) > E-mail: vielle at ori.ucl.ac.be > From klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI Wed Nov 24 07:50:49 2004 From: klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 09:50:49 +0200 Subject: Help on installing fonts on Mac OS 10.3.5 In-Reply-To: <60D386B60521234BB917967801F3A30F01C24C5D@lsa-m4.lsa.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227075410.23782.13747422022473980174.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear friends, I have exactly same problem. So if you answer to Madhav, could you also send a copy to me, please. Thanks, Klaus On Nov 23, 2004, at 8:05 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Dear Friends, > > For the past many years, I have been using an Apple G4 computer > (OS 9.1), and using my fonts Madhushree and ManjushreeCSX without any > problems. Recently I acquired an iMac G5 computer that runs OS 10.3.5 > (Panther), and so far I have not been able to install my old fonts or > keyboard layouts on OS 10.3.5. I have too many current projects that > use these fonts and if I cannot load them on to the new machine, it is > practically useless for my purposes. I am hoping that some of you > who use my Mac fonts have figured out how to use them on OS 10.3.5. > If you have been successful in using these fonts on OS 10.3.5, please > let me know how you did it. You can send a personal message to me > (mmdesh at umich.edu). Thanks in anticipation. > > Madhav Deshpande > > > Klaus Karttunen, Ph.D. Research Fellow, Helsinki Collegium for Advanced Studies P.O. Box 4 FIN-00014? University of Helsinki Finland Tel +358-(0)9-191 23500 Fax +358-(0)9-191 24509 Email?Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi also Docent of Indology and Classical Ethnography Institute of Asian and African Studies PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B), 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Wed Nov 24 16:54:37 2004 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 11:54:37 -0500 Subject: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani Message-ID: <161227075423.23782.16329917393072098326.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The GSB claim, in part on the basis of certain chapters of the Sahyadrikhanda (see my article mentioned in the previous email), that Parasurama found that the local Brahmins in the Marathi/Konkani regions, namely the Chitpavans and the Karhade (=karahataka) turned out to be unworthy, and that he finally brought a community of northern (gauda) brahmins to the region of Konkan. Madhav Deshpande -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Christophe Vielle Sent: Wed 11/24/2004 11:36 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani Thank you very much, dear Madhav Deshpande, for all these very useful references on the GSB that I am eager to read. Now I find in my own archives collected from the Indological list, in a discussion about Nambudiri etc. (1999), this sentence [by a certain B.N.Hebbar - I quote it such as I have] "the ParashurAma kShetra includes the CitpAvan (MarAThi-speaking), SArasvat, GauDa-SArasvat (both KonkaNI-speaking), Havyak, KoTa, (both "coastal" KannaDa-speaking) ShivaLLi (TuLu-speaking) and Nambudiri (MaLayALam-speaking) brahmins referred to collectively as the SaptakonkaNa brahmins." I do not know on which source this assertion was based. The same Hebbar was referring to the Sahyaadrikha.n.da of the SkP, but according to the r?sum? of Gail (1977: 200-3) the names of the seven Konkana given there (UttKh 6.48) are the ones of the seven lands ("Kerala, Tulanga, Sauraa.s.tra, Konkana, Karahaa.ta, Karanaa.ta und Barbara") not the ones of the different brahmins. When brahmin classification is concerned, it is the pa?ca-Gau.da/pa?ca-Draavi.da one which is used (UttKh 1.2-3), and in the latter case the brahmins from North India or Gau.das, among the five groups of which are named the Sarasvatas, can not easily be identified with the "Konkani" Gau.da-Sarasvatas. >There is a book on the GSBs by Frank Conlon [A Caste in a Changing World: >The Chitrapur Saraswat Brahmins, 1977, University of California Press] and >several important articles by Narendra Wagle (1970: "The History and >Social Organization of the Gauda Sarasvata Brahmanas of the West Coast of >India," Journal of Indian Hisotry, vol. 48: 8-25. 295-333. Also see my >article: "Panca-Gauda und Panca-Dravida. Umstrittene Grenzen einer >traditionellen Klassifikation," and its bibliography in Arier und >Draviden, Konstruktionen der Vergangenheit als Grundlage fur Selbst- und >Fremdwahrnehmungen Sudasiens, herausgegeben von Michael Bergunder und >Rahul Peter Das, Verlag der Franckeschen Stiftungen zu Halle, 2002. > >Madhav Deshpande > >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology on behalf of Christophe Vielle >Sent: Wed 11/24/2004 8:13 AM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani > >Dear colleagues, >In the useful little book "Malayalam for beginners" by V.R. >Prabodhachandran Nayar (Trivandrum, 1999, Swantham Books publ.), I come >across this (Malayalam - a linguistic profile - Bilingualism p. 72): >"Pockets of Gaudasaraswatha Brahmins and Chettis ((/ce.t.ti/) who speak two >different varieties of Konkani are mostly in the districts of Ernakulam and >Alappuzha". >Who are these "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins (coming from Konkan where some >still remain, I suppose)? Where could I find something about them? >Thank you for your help > >Dr. Christophe Vielle >Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud >Institut orientaliste >Place Blaise Pascal 1 >B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve >BELGIUM >Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) >E-mail: vielle at ori.ucl.ac.be Dr. Christophe Vielle Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud Institut orientaliste Place Blaise Pascal 1 B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve BELGIUM Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) E-mail: vielle at ori.ucl.ac.be From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Wed Nov 24 18:26:44 2004 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John Huntington) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 13:26:44 -0500 Subject: Help on installing fonts on Mac OS 10.3.5 In-Reply-To: <8EA93BE6-3DED-11D9-94A0-000D9354979E@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227075429.23782.15334014877986266699.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The usual way to install fonts in the Mac is to find the Users folder on the hard disk, open your user home (a silly little house icon for home) it will have your user name on (mine is jhunting). open that and go to library. from there go to the fonts folder -- Drag copy the fonts you want to use to that folder. If you have Administrator access to your machine. You can do it the following way which is preferable. On the main hard disk first level open the Library folder, go to Library and drag copy the font to the fonts folder in there. The newer versions of OS 10 allow this latter method freely however some of the older versions are limited in access by the Unix OS John >Dear friends, >I have exactly same problem. So if you answer to Madhav, could you >also send a copy to me, please. >Thanks, >Klaus >On Nov 23, 2004, at 8:05 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > >>Dear Friends, >> >> For the past many years, I have been using an Apple G4 >>computer (OS 9.1), and using my fonts Madhushree and ManjushreeCSX >>without any problems. Recently I acquired an iMac G5 computer that >>runs OS 10.3.5 (Panther), and so far I have not been able to >>install my old fonts or keyboard layouts on OS 10.3.5. I have too >>many current projects that use these fonts and if I cannot load >>them on to the new machine, it is practically useless for my >>purposes. I am hoping that some of you who use my Mac fonts have >>figured out how to use them on OS 10.3.5. If you have been >>successful in using these fonts on OS 10.3.5, please let me know >>how you did it. You can send a personal message to me >>(mmdesh at umich.edu). Thanks in anticipation. >> >>Madhav Deshpande >> >> >Klaus Karttunen, Ph.D. >Research Fellow, > Helsinki Collegium for Advanced Studies > P.O. Box 4 > FIN-00014 University of Helsinki > Finland > >Tel +358-(0)9-191 23500 > Fax +358-(0)9-191 24509 > Email Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > >also >Docent of Indology and Classical Ethnography >Institute of Asian and African Studies >PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B), 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND From vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE Wed Nov 24 13:13:59 2004 From: vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 14:13:59 +0100 Subject: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani In-Reply-To: <60D386B60521234BB917967801F3A30F01C24C5D@lsa-m4.lsa.adsroot.itcs.umich.ed u> Message-ID: <161227075413.23782.11659494112618988658.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, In the useful little book "Malayalam for beginners" by V.R. Prabodhachandran Nayar (Trivandrum, 1999, Swantham Books publ.), I come across this (Malayalam - a linguistic profile - Bilingualism p. 72): "Pockets of Gaudasaraswatha Brahmins and Chettis ((/ce.t.ti/) who speak two different varieties of Konkani are mostly in the districts of Ernakulam and Alappuzha". Who are these "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins (coming from Konkan where some still remain, I suppose)? Where could I find something about them? Thank you for your help Dr. Christophe Vielle Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud Institut orientaliste Place Blaise Pascal 1 B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve BELGIUM Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) E-mail: vielle at ori.ucl.ac.be From jkirk at SPRO.NET Wed Nov 24 21:24:42 2004 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 14:24:42 -0700 Subject: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani Message-ID: <161227075432.23782.5197001861059678988.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> But wasn't Gauda in Bengal?????? how could it be northern then? Joanna K. ========================================= The GSB claim, in part on the basis of certain chapters of the Sahyadrikhanda (see my article mentioned in the previous email), that Parasurama found that the local Brahmins in the Marathi/Konkani regions, namely the Chitpavans and the Karhade (=karahataka) turned out to be unworthy, and that he finally brought a community of northern (gauda) brahmins to the region of Konkan. Madhav Deshpande From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Nov 25 00:25:09 2004 From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 16:25:09 -0800 Subject: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani In-Reply-To: <006201c4d26c$036f1910$2930cece@charlie> Message-ID: <161227075442.23782.15408698941163308100.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> As suggested in an earlier post today, the 'origins' of the GSBs is a matter of no great certainty. Informants confidently told me that their ancestors had come 'directly from the North, i.e. Kashmir via the Sarasvati River' while others said that the ancestors had "first gone to Bengal (Gauda) and hence the name" while the other party said that "Gauda" merely was a reference to the Panca Gauda division of Brahmans, without contemplating the necessity of that term since there were no Panca Dravida Saraswat Brahmans. Similarities between Konkani and Bengali are held forth by the second party, but I believe it was the late Professor Katre of Deccan College who said that the similarities were consisten with linguistic change at the peripheries of Indo-Aryan languages. If it wasn't Professor Katre, it might have been another of the Deccan College faculty--my memory is not brahanical and it would have been about 40 years ago. Frank Conlon On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, jkirk wrote: > But wasn't Gauda in Bengal?????? how could it be northern then? > Joanna K. > > ========================================= From vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE Wed Nov 24 16:36:16 2004 From: vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 17:36:16 +0100 Subject: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani In-Reply-To: <60D386B60521234BB917967801F3A30F01C24C6A@lsa-m4.lsa.adsroot.itcs.umich.ed u> Message-ID: <161227075421.23782.3562718837918979021.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you very much, dear Madhav Deshpande, for all these very useful references on the GSB that I am eager to read. Now I find in my own archives collected from the Indological list, in a discussion about Nambudiri etc. (1999), this sentence [by a certain B.N.Hebbar - I quote it such as I have] "the ParashurAma kShetra includes the CitpAvan (MarAThi-speaking), SArasvat, GauDa-SArasvat (both KonkaNI-speaking), Havyak, KoTa, (both "coastal" KannaDa-speaking) ShivaLLi (TuLu-speaking) and Nambudiri (MaLayALam-speaking) brahmins referred to collectively as the SaptakonkaNa brahmins." I do not know on which source this assertion was based. The same Hebbar was referring to the Sahyaadrikha.n.da of the SkP, but according to the r?sum? of Gail (1977: 200-3) the names of the seven Konkana given there (UttKh 6.48) are the ones of the seven lands ("Kerala, Tulanga, Sauraa.s.tra, Konkana, Karahaa.ta, Karanaa.ta und Barbara") not the ones of the different brahmins. When brahmin classification is concerned, it is the pa?ca-Gau.da/pa?ca-Draavi.da one which is used (UttKh 1.2-3), and in the latter case the brahmins from North India or Gau.das, among the five groups of which are named the Sarasvatas, can not easily be identified with the "Konkani" Gau.da-Sarasvatas. >There is a book on the GSBs by Frank Conlon [A Caste in a Changing World: >The Chitrapur Saraswat Brahmins, 1977, University of California Press] and >several important articles by Narendra Wagle (1970: "The History and >Social Organization of the Gauda Sarasvata Brahmanas of the West Coast of >India," Journal of Indian Hisotry, vol. 48: 8-25. 295-333. Also see my >article: "Panca-Gauda und Panca-Dravida. Umstrittene Grenzen einer >traditionellen Klassifikation," and its bibliography in Arier und >Draviden, Konstruktionen der Vergangenheit als Grundlage fur Selbst- und >Fremdwahrnehmungen Sudasiens, herausgegeben von Michael Bergunder und >Rahul Peter Das, Verlag der Franckeschen Stiftungen zu Halle, 2002. > >Madhav Deshpande > >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology on behalf of Christophe Vielle >Sent: Wed 11/24/2004 8:13 AM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani > >Dear colleagues, >In the useful little book "Malayalam for beginners" by V.R. >Prabodhachandran Nayar (Trivandrum, 1999, Swantham Books publ.), I come >across this (Malayalam - a linguistic profile - Bilingualism p. 72): >"Pockets of Gaudasaraswatha Brahmins and Chettis ((/ce.t.ti/) who speak two >different varieties of Konkani are mostly in the districts of Ernakulam and >Alappuzha". >Who are these "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins (coming from Konkan where some >still remain, I suppose)? Where could I find something about them? >Thank you for your help > >Dr. Christophe Vielle >Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud >Institut orientaliste >Place Blaise Pascal 1 >B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve >BELGIUM >Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) >E-mail: vielle at ori.ucl.ac.be Dr. Christophe Vielle Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud Institut orientaliste Place Blaise Pascal 1 B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve BELGIUM Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) E-mail: vielle at ori.ucl.ac.be From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Wed Nov 24 23:19:58 2004 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 18:19:58 -0500 Subject: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani Message-ID: <161227075440.23782.6318633922468709882.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The word gauDa is used both in a narrow and and a wide sense. In its narrow sense it refers to Bengal, but in its wider sense it refers to the whole of north India (north of Narmada river to be exact) in the concept of panca-gauDa brahmins. This is also true of the word draviDa. In its narrow sense, the word is used to refer to Tamils, but in its wider sense, it covers south India, but also includes Gujarat, in the concept of Panca draviDa. Madhav Deshpande ________________________________ From: Indology on behalf of jkirk Sent: Wed 11/24/2004 4:24 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani But wasn't Gauda in Bengal?????? how could it be northern then? Joanna K. ========================================= The GSB claim, in part on the basis of certain chapters of the Sahyadrikhanda (see my article mentioned in the previous email), that Parasurama found that the local Brahmins in the Marathi/Konkani regions, namely the Chitpavans and the Karhade (=karahataka) turned out to be unworthy, and that he finally brought a community of northern (gauda) brahmins to the region of Konkan. Madhav Deshpande From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Wed Nov 24 22:46:35 2004 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 23:46:35 +0100 Subject: Critical editions in Devanagari with LaTeX (ledmac, utfskt) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075434.23782.9290190313051878196.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Dear Birgit, > > I'm in the middle of doing a small critical edition myself at the moment, > using Ledmac. Would it be useful for me to send you my Ledmac input file, > and a PDF of the output? It's only half done, so it's a bit scrappy, but > the important bits about the use of Ledmac are all okay. > > Best, > Dominik Dear Dominik, thank you for your offer; indeed it would be very helpful to have your Ledmac and PDF files. I still have to digest Richard Mahoney's suggestion, which is a little bit too advanced for me as a LaTeX neophyte. Off-list, I also received some very helpful answers from J?rgen Hanneder. The unwanted separation of letters with virAma can be overcome by a different approach to separating strings in ledmac: Instead of: \edtext{\Nag{adhigam?d}}{\Bfootnote{some variant reading for adhigam?t}}arthasiddhi? use: \edtext{\Nag{adhigam?da}}{\lemma{adhigam?t}{\Bfootnote{some variant reading for adhigam?t}}}rthasiddhi? The drawback is that the text then gets cut up beyond belief, and that it becomes rather cumbersome to search in it - unless there is some tool that allows you to search in LaTeX source files ignoring all control codes. I also had difficulties with certain consonants and ligatures; they would just not get processed. J?rgen found out that these problems arise because the file uses both the devnag and the babel-german package, both of which make use of " as a special character. For the time being, it seems that I have to do without German hyphentation in critical editions, which is actually a negligible evil. Many thanks for all replies, best regards, Birgit Kellner From k.harimoto at LET.RUG.NL Wed Nov 24 22:55:37 2004 From: k.harimoto at LET.RUG.NL (Kengo Harimoto) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 23:55:37 +0100 Subject: Help on installing fonts on Mac OS 10.3.5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227075437.23782.9389748703240693140.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I thought the original question was more than just installing the font. For that, the simplest way (in 10.3) is to just double-click on the font file :) Font Book will open and there will be a button to install the font. As for the Keyboard layout file: http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:p5Y5ACIKpxQJ:www.sandiego.edu/ theo/risa-l/archive/msg06449.html+ManjushreeCSX&hl=en answers exactly that question. -- kengo harimoto From J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK Thu Nov 25 18:01:04 2004 From: J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK (J. L. Brockington) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 04 18:01:04 +0000 Subject: Post in Sanskrit, University of Edinburgh Message-ID: <161227075445.23782.9881805512571471631.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >> APPLICATIONS ARE INVITED FOR THE POST OF LECTURER IN SANSKRIT IN THE >> UNIVERSITY OF EDINBURGH >> >> >> SCHOOL OF LITERATURE, LANGUAGES AND CULTURE, >> UNIVERSITY OF EDINBURGH >> >> >> Applications are invited for a lectureship ( Grade A or B ) in >> Sanskrit in the department of Asian Studies. The successful candidate >> will have an honours degree, or the equivalent, in Sanskrit and hold >> a doctoral degree in some aspect of Indology. Preference will be >> given to applicants with a specialist research interest in classical >> Hinduism and the ability to contribute publications to the >> forthcoming UK Research Assessment Exercise. As well as participating >> in the teaching of Sanskrit language and literature, the appointee >> will be expected to organise and teach first and second level courses >> in Indian civilisation and religion / philosophy and Honours level >> courses in Hinduism. It is hoped that the successful candidate will >> be able to take up his / her position in September 2005. >> >> Salary Range: ?23, 634 - ?30, 363 >> >> Closing date: 10 January 2005 >> >> Full details, including information about application procedure, can >> be found at >> >> The job reference number is 3003254. >> >> >> Paul Dundas >> Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit >> University of Edinburgh >> 7 Buccleuch Place >> Edinburgh EH8 9LW >> Scotland >> U.K. >> From anand.nayak at UNIFR.CH Fri Nov 26 09:29:13 2004 From: anand.nayak at UNIFR.CH (NAYAK Anand) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 04 10:29:13 +0100 Subject: "Gaudasaraswatha" brahmins speaking Konkani Message-ID: <161227075447.23782.18228755772954836746.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am happy to say that I belong to the Gaudasaraswati groupe and my mother tongue is Konkani. Incidentally, there are many Gaudasaraswati's in the West, all those who have names like mine and others like Prabhu, Bhandari, Kamath,Bhatt and so forth and who speak Konkani at home.Most of the members of our community are Brahmin Hindus but there are exceptions like me, my ancestors converted to Christianity in the 16th century. These Christians are particularly in the region of Goa and Mangalore. The Gaudasaraswatis have their Temples alll over the West coast of India, from Cochin to Bombay, dedicated to Saraswati, Laksmi or one of the Consorts of Vishnu who is venerated particularly under his symbol of Shesha, the Serpent. The Valkeshwari Temple in Bombay is one of their main centres. Material for a research work is not easily available. But there is a popular literature available in India, written for the Saraswatis who seek to know more about thier roots. True, we are often taken for Bengalis in India. Perhaps more for our physical features than for the language Konkani which has some resemblancres to Bengali but which more akin to Marathi and is often considered by the Marathi people as a sort a dialect of that language. The Konkani people however do not accept this interpretation and since a few years there have been efforts to revive this langauge ( most of the Gaudasaraswatis live outside their homeland), particularly in Goa. The "Christupurana" (The Purana of Christ) written by the English Jesuit Thomas Stevens (landed in Goa in 1579)is taken to be in old Konkani by the Konkani people; the Marathis claim it as their literature. This only shows that both these languages belong to the same source. Research material on Konkan Gauda Sarasvatis can be found at the Xavier Centre of Historical Research Institute,Alto Provonm, Goa - 403 521. A few recent books can also be useful: P.F. Pinto, History of Christians in Coastal Karnataka (1500-1763), Samanvaya, Mangalore 575 002, 1999.This work gives an extensive bibliography over the Portuguese conquest of the Konkan coastal territories where the Gaudasaraswatis live. Two other works: A. Machado, Sarasvati's children (1799-1999), Mangalore, 1999; M. Lobo, The Mangalorean Catholic Community, Camelot, Mangalore, 2001 (printmatic at vsnl. Net). Prof. Dr. Anand Nayak Universit? de Fribourg/ Universit?t Freiburg-Schweiz INSTITUT DE MISSIOLOGIE ET DE SCIENCE DES RELIGIONS INSTITUT F?R MISSIONSWISSENSCHAFT UND RELIGIONSWISSENSCHAFT Avenue de l'Europe 20 CH- 1700 Fribourg Switzerland 0041-26 300 74 38 / 300 74 37 0041-79 306 97 45 (mobile) Anand.Nayak at unifr.ch www.unifr.ch/imr - From hhhock at EXPRESS.CITES.UIUC.EDU Fri Nov 26 18:35:04 2004 From: hhhock at EXPRESS.CITES.UIUC.EDU (Hans Henrich Hock) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 04 12:35:04 -0600 Subject: Help on installing fonts on Mac OS 10.3.5 Message-ID: <161227075450.23782.15990913721867012623.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Double clicking the font file doesn't always work; hence my suggestions. Hans Henrich Hock ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:55:37 +0100 >From: Kengo Harimoto >Subject: Re: Help on installing fonts on Mac OS 10.3.5 >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > >I thought the original question was more than just installing the font. > For that, the simplest way (in 10.3) is to just double-click on the >font file :) Font Book will open and there will be a button to install >the font. > >As for the Keyboard layout file: > >http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:p5Y5ACIKpxQJ:www.sandie go.edu/ >theo/risa-l/archive/msg06449.html+ManjushreeCSX&hl=en > >answers exactly that question. > >-- >kengo harimoto From rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ Sun Nov 28 03:59:28 2004 From: rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 04 16:59:28 +1300 Subject: Fwd: [Ann] Mem available ... [Multilingual Unicode Typesetting] Message-ID: <161227075452.23782.15826480269859490256.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Following on from recent discussions, fyi: ----- Forwarded message from RBMahoney ----- From: "Javier Bezos" Newsgroups: comp.text.tex Subject: [Ann] Mem available on SourceForge Mem. A multilingual environment for LaTeX with Aleph Mem provides an experimental environment for multilingual and multiscript typesetting with LaTeX in the Aleph typesetting system. Aleph is Unicode-savvy and combines features of Omega and eTeX. With Mem you should be able to typeset Unicode documents mixing several languages and several scripts taking advantage of its built-in OCP mechanism and with a high level interface. Currently Mem is still under study and development and in its present state are not intended to be a fully functional package. The first experimental code was presented in Tokyo (Japan) in 2001 with the name of Lambda, and after a pause work is again in progress with the new name of Mem and with a major overhaul. Mem is designed to be capable of following the development of Omega and LaTeX3, and I'm publishing it to encourage other people to think about the ideas behind it and to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of several approachs to the involved problems. The project is now hosted in the public respository SourceForge.org to open its development to other people: http://mem-latex.sourceforge.net A talk is scheduled for the forthcoming EuroTeX 2005 and Mem will be available on CTAN soon. Javier ____________________________________________________________ Javier Bezos | TeX y tipograf?a jbezos at wanadoo at es | http://perso.wanadoo.es/jbezos ............................|............................... CervanTeX | http://www.cervantex.org ----- End forwarded message ----- Best regards, Richard MAHONEY -- Richard MAHONEY | internet: homepages.comnet.net.nz/~r-mahoney Littledene | telephone / telefax (man.): ++64 3 312 1699 Bay Road | cellular: ++64 25 829 986 OXFORD, NZ | e-mail: r.mahoney[use"@"]comnet.net.nz From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Nov 29 23:54:10 2004 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 04 18:54:10 -0500 Subject: THANKS FOR THE HELP: installing fonts on Mac OS 10.3.6 Message-ID: <161227075455.23782.18291904080098891561.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, Eureka! Eureka!! It finally worked. I want to thank everyone who sent in instructions on how to install fonts and especially the keyboards on Mac OS X. The keyboards proved to be a major headache. Evidently, as soon as copied my old keyboards to the desktop of the OS X, it could not read their contents, and converted them into zero KB empty files. So installing these empty keyboard layouts, even with the suffix .rsrc, in the Library folder was having no effect. Finally, and only by accident, I was looking at the size of these files and realized that on the OS X desktop they appeared with zero KB, while on my old OS 9 computer they showed their true size. Then I added the .rsrc suffix to the keyboard files while they were still on the old OS 9 machine, and after connecting the two machines, I copied these files directly into the Library folder. And it worked. I don't have any idea why the OS X desktop was treating these files as empty files. Some of you who may still be having this problem may find some solution in the procedure I followed. In any case, my new 20 inch i-Mac G5 is now up and running with Madhushree and ManjushreeCSX fonts and keyboards, and I can use it for editing my old files, rather than merely watching DVDs on it. Best wishes, Madhav Deshpande -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Hans Henrich Hock Sent: Fri 11/26/2004 1:35 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Help on installing fonts on Mac OS 10.3.5 Double clicking the font file doesn't always work; hence my suggestions. Hans Henrich Hock ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:55:37 +0100 >From: Kengo Harimoto >Subject: Re: Help on installing fonts on Mac OS 10.3.5 >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > >I thought the original question was more than just installing the font. > For that, the simplest way (in 10.3) is to just double-click on the >font file :) Font Book will open and there will be a button to install >the font. > >As for the Keyboard layout file: > >http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:p5Y5ACIKpxQJ:www.sandie go.edu/ >theo/risa-l/archive/msg06449.html+ManjushreeCSX&hl=en > >answers exactly that question. > >-- >kengo harimoto From Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR Tue Nov 30 13:29:25 2004 From: Gerard.Huet at INRIA.FR (=?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A9rard_Huet?=) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 04 14:29:25 +0100 Subject: fonts In-Reply-To: <60D386B60521234BB917967801F3A30F01C24C86@lsa-m4.lsa.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227075457.23782.13418084329416989573.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear indologists, the flurry of messages concerning fonts prompted me to look into the problem of generating proper ligatures for Sanskrit on the Web. Thanks to the hint provided by Stefan Baum on nov 12th, I understood how to encode ligatures in Unicode, and I could generate pages with correct rendering mixing devanagari with ligatures, transliteration with diacritics, and French with accents. I have tentatively installed an experimental version of my site http://pauillac.inria.fr/~huet/SKT/ which I submit to your perusal. In order to get a correct rendering, you must have installed on your workstation Unicode compliant fonts, such as IndUni from Cambridge for diacritics, and Sanskrit99 from Ulrich Stiehl for devanagari (or Devanagari MT for Mac users). At present, I get correct rendering using Mac System X browser Safari 1.2.4 - except that there is still some problematic buffer size limitation (devanagari does not show after a while for long Web pages). If you try it out, please let me know by private email whether you get properly rendered devanagari by viewing a typical page such as http://pauillac.inria.fr/~huet/SKT/DICO/gh.html. Please mention precise parameters of your installation: - operating system version - browser version - relevant locally installed fonts. If people are interested, I could explain my method for Sanskrit publishing, featuring: - perfect typography for scholarly documents with TeX - good rendering of Web documents with devanagari ligatures and diacritics - unique source of documents in roman diacritics (using any non-ambiguous transliteration scheme) - fast algorithms for linguistic processing (using arithmetical encoding of phoneme streams). In this methodology, TeX descriptions AND Unicode/UTF8 representations are compiled from transliteration texts in 7-bit ASCII, so there is no need for specific keyboard input or Unicode editors. G?rard Huet From rubberjoel at SAFE-MAIL.NET Tue Nov 30 21:10:48 2004 From: rubberjoel at SAFE-MAIL.NET (Joel Bordeaux) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 04 16:10:48 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [GRAD-R] Call for papers - Columbia Conference 2005 Message-ID: <161227075460.23782.5178711975792877426.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> -------- Original Message -------- From: rubberjoel To: al2308 at columbia.edu Subject: Fwd: [GRAD-R] Call for papers - Columbia Conference 2005 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:12:18 -0500 -------- Original Message -------- From: Rosemary Hicks Apparently from: owner-grad-relig at CUVMC.AIS.COLUMBIA.EDU To: GRAD-RELIG at CUVMC.AIS.COLUMBIA.EDU Subject: [GRAD-R] Call for papers - Columbia Conference 2005 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:48:47 -0500 ***Please Forward to List-Serves and Notify Me*** Columbia University Graduate Student Association Department of Religion CALL FOR PAPERS: Spring 2005 Conference ?Identity, Representation, and Narrative in the Studies of Religion? Dates: March 31-April 1, 2005 Location: Columbia University Keynote Speaker: Robert Orsi, Harvard, 2003 President of the American Academy of Religion and author of "Between Heaven and Earth: The Religious Worlds People Make and the Scholars Who Study Them" (2004) The Religion Department of Religion at Columbia University is soliciting papers for its forthcoming 2005 conference. The conference will focus on methodological and theoretical issues applied to the studies of religions, specifically concerning the ways in which religious identities are conceptualized, recorded, and represented in both practice and academic discourse. Featured Presentations: -Mark Taylor, Williams College and Columbia University, author of "Confidence Games" (2004), on the future of identity politics in religious studies. -Religion and Media in the United States -The History of Religious Studies at Columbia University **Possible panels include, but are not restricted to: Religious Identity in/during/through Migration Identity and Conversion ?The History of the History of Religion? Hagiography and Biography Lived Religion as Methodology Psychology as Analytical Lens Intertextuality Religion and Media Submissions must be no longer than 10 pages (20 minute presentation length). Complete panel proposals in keeping with the theme will also be considered. Deadline: December 20th, 2004. Submissions and information: Rosemary Hicks rrh2103 at columbia.edu This message has been sent to you via GRAD-RELIG, a graduate student only listserv for the Department of Religion, Columbia University. To send a message to the list, list members should address it to: GRAD-RELIG at CUVMC.AIS.COLUMBIA.EDU To unsubscribe, send a message with the command -- SIGNOFF GRAD-RELIG -- as the message to LISTSERV at CUVMC.AIS.COLUMBIA.EDU.