From gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Feb 2 10:48:53 2004 From: gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (gruenendahl) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 04 10:48:53 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) : Rereading Orientalism (Jadavpur University) Message-ID: <161227073824.23782.5355424164541566388.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: CFP: Rereading Orientalism (India) (3/15/04; 8/12/04-8/14/04) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:16:16 +0500 From: offog at vsnl.com To: cfp at english.upenn.edu CALL FOR PAPERS DEPARTMENT OF ENGLISH JADAVPUR UNIVERSITY Other Voices, Other Cultures: Rereading Orientalism INTERNATIONAL SEMINAR August 12, 13 and 14, 2004 Papers are invited for a multidisciplinary international seminar to be held for three days at the department of English, Jadavpur University, to pay tribute to the late Professor Edward Said, the Palestinian-American scholar and activist renowned for his revaluation of Orientalism as a relation between culture and power. The organisers are particularly interested in reappraisals of Said?s work and discussions of contentious issues and debates concerning Orientalism, classified under the following (and other) themes: ? Edward Said in retrospect ? Differentiating Orientalisms ? Orientalism and history re-oriented ? Orientalism and other discourses of imperialism ? Orientalism and continuing debates on postcoloniality/the "postcolonial" ? Orientalism and Culture Studies ? Orientalism and Global Studies ? Orientalism and Visual Culture ? Gender and Orientalism ? Enlightenment and Orientalism ? Orientalism and Romanticism ? Occidentalism and Orientalisms in reverse The title and abstract of the paper (not more than 500 words) should reach us either by post or in the form of an e-mail attachment to chandreyeen at vsnl.net by March 15, 2004. The duration of the entire paper should ideally be 30 minutes. Local hospitality will be provided, but participants are expected to arrange for their own travel funds. Seminar Committee: 1) Dr. Paromita Chakravarti Lecturer in English 2) Ms. Nilanjana Deb Lecturer in English 3) Dr. Chandreyee Niyogi Reader in English 4) Dr. Nilanjana Gupta Reader in English 5) Dr. Abhijit Gupta Lecturer in English =============================================== From the Literary Calls for Papers Mailing List CFP at english.upenn.edu Full Information at http://www.english.upenn.edu/CFP/ or write Erika Lin: elin at english.upenn.edu =============================================== ******************************************************************** Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 G?ttingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 Fax (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 23 61 gruenen at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From christoph.emmrich at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Mon Feb 2 14:19:28 2004 From: christoph.emmrich at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Christoph Emmrich) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 04 15:19:28 +0100 Subject: ADVANCED SUMMER SCHOOL IN SPOKEN SANSKRIT 2004 Message-ID: <161227073826.23782.1500276019435465328.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ADVANCED SUMMER SCHOOL IN SPOKEN SANSKRIT 2004 This year for the second time the South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg offers a three-week intensive course dedicated to advanced learners of spoken Sanskrit. Shri Sadananda Das has prepared a course which especially addresses the needs of the alumni of the previous Heidelberger Sanskrit Summer Schools, but is equally open to those who already speak Sanskrit. What has been learnt in previous courses will be reactivated and the students will be assisted in enlarging their vocabulary, practicing the use of idiomatic expressions as well as in developing free speech and having topically oriented discussions. By introducing new material from gnomic and kaavya literature one of the foci once again will be memorization, recitation and, as a grand finale, a theatrical performance. Prerequisites: elementary Sanskrit and English Organizer: Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels Teacher: Dr. Sadananda Das Participants: max. 15; min. 10 Venue: South Asia Institute Date: September 6 - 24, 2004 Deadlines: application May 15, payment June 30 Fee: Euro 300,- (incl. teaching material) Accomodation: hostel on request, approx. Euro 200,- Application including filled out questionnaire at http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.htm (or in this email below) by email to srilata.mueller at urz.uni-heidelberg.de or letter to: ?Advanced Sanskrit Summer School? The Secretariat, Dept. of Classical Indology, South Asia Institute, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. Payment by cheque or transfer to following account: Univ. Heidelberg 21911 Sparkasse HD BLZ 672 500 20, Re: Skt. Summer School S-Kto 54034, K-Stelle 97028000 Apologies for cross-postings. -- Christoph Emmrich Classical Indology South Asia Institute University of Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 69120 Heidelberg - Germany Tel.: 0049-54-6303 Fax: 0049-546338 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Application for (please tick): Sanskrit Summer School 2004 Sanskrit Summer School for Advanced Speakers 2004 Name: Sex: Age: Nationality: University: Department: Supervisor(s): Semesters: Subjects, courses: Title(s): Occupation, position: Current project: Modern languages: Classical languages: Years of Sanskrit traning, where?: Variety of texts read: Previous courses or practice in spoken Sanskrit: none/some, which? Accomodation required: yes/no From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Feb 2 17:44:11 2004 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 04 17:44:11 +0000 Subject: UNIVERSITY OF OXFORD, Boden Professorship of Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227073829.23782.18426806517868308058.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> --- Copied from http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/ps/gp/current/http003.shtml . For further details, see http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/fp/bodenprof.shtml --- UNIVERSITY OF OXFORD Boden Professorship of Sanskrit Applications are invited for the above post, tenable from 1 October 2004, or such later date as may be arranged. The professor will be a scholar of international distinction in any area or areas of specialisation in Sanskrit and Indology, broadly conceived; will provide academic leadership in promoting and sustaining research and teaching within the Faculty of Oriental Studies; and will contribute fully to the development and delivery of the aims and objectives of the faculty. A non-stipendiary fellowship at Balliol College is attached to the professorship. Further particulars, including details of how to apply, are available from http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/fp/ or from the Registrar, University Offices, Wellington Square, Oxford OX1 2JD (Tel: 01865 270200). The closing date for applications is Monday, 8 March 2004. From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Tue Feb 3 03:04:52 2004 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (michael witzel) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 04 22:04:52 -0500 Subject: Summer Sanskrit @ Harvard Message-ID: <161227073831.23782.8684233649834026381.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This Summer, as ever since 1990, we will again offer an Introduction to Sanskrit: June 28 - August 20, each day MON-THU; equals about 2 regular semesters of first year Sanskrit. Course details at: http://www.summer.harvard.edu/2004/courses/sans.jsp and administrative details at: http://www.summer.harvard.edu Some of our best PhDs of the past decade have emerged from Summer School, so try it out! Or tell your friends... M. Witzel Michael Witzel Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street , Cambridge MA 02138 1-617-495 3295 Fax: 496 8571 direct line: 496 2990 http://witzel at fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Tue Feb 3 14:19:44 2004 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (michael witzel) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 04 09:19:44 -0500 Subject: Summer Sanskrit @ Harvard In-Reply-To: <200402030317.AA00790@garuda.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <161227073837.23782.2909590113479609434.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The whole Divison of Continuing Education" seems to have been off-line until a few minutes ago. http://www.summer.harvard.edu/2003/courses/sans.jsp You can also try : http://www.dce.harvard.edu/summer/ Muneo, unfortunately the fees are set by the University, not by me! MW >Dear Michael, > >>This Summer, as ever since 1990, we will again offer an Introduction to >>Sanskrit: >> >>June 28 - August 20, each day MON-THU; equals about 2 regular semesters of >>first year Sanskrit. > >If it's free, I want to attend it! > > Michael Witzel Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street , Cambridge MA 02138 1-617-495 3295 Fax: 496 8571 direct line: 496 2990 http://witzel at fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm From magier at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue Feb 3 17:01:42 2004 From: magier at COLUMBIA.EDU (David Magier) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 04 12:01:42 -0500 Subject: Peterson Goethe and India lecture CCLS Feb. 12 Message-ID: <161227073843.23782.117207851297324303.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Colleagues, I've been asked to forward to your listserv or mailing >list the following Columbia announcement of a South Asia event of >interest. If you have questions about this event, please contact >Prof. Peterson directly for more details. > >Best, >David Magier, Co-Chair >University Seminar on South Asia, Columbia University > >> The Center for Comparative Literature & Society at Columbia >> University presents >> >> "Reading India in Goethe's Sati Ballad: Orientalist and >> Enlightenment discourses in "Der Gott und die Bajadere" >> >> A Lecture by Indira Viswanathan Peterson >> Professor of Sanskrit and Indian literary studies >> Middle East and Asian Languages and Cultures >> Columbia University >> >> February 12, 6:00p.m. to 8:00p.m. at the Heyman Center, Board Room. >> Dinner reception will follow. For more information, please call >> 212-854-4541 From mtokunag at BUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP Tue Feb 3 03:17:21 2004 From: mtokunag at BUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP (Muneo Tokunaga) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 04 12:17:21 +0900 Subject: Summer Sanskrit @ Harvard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073833.23782.4839767728488566726.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Michael, >This Summer, as ever since 1990, we will again offer an Introduction to >Sanskrit: > >June 28 - August 20, each day MON-THU; equals about 2 regular semesters of >first year Sanskrit. If it's free, I want to attend it! Both Wezler and Aklujkar are in Kyoto: AW (Feb-Apr), Aklujkar (last Oct-this March). AW seems fine and happy here. Valuable but hectic days. Yours, Muneo ---- Muneo Tokunaga mtokunag at bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp From mtokunag at BUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP Tue Feb 3 03:19:36 2004 From: mtokunag at BUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP (Muneo Tokunaga) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 04 12:19:36 +0900 Subject: Summer Sanskrit @ Harvard In-Reply-To: <200402030317.AA00790@garuda.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <161227073835.23782.7345390797928578060.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sorry for personal message. Tokunaga ---- Muneo Tokunaga mtokunag at bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Tue Feb 3 14:47:37 2004 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 04 15:47:37 +0100 Subject: Georg von Simson Message-ID: <161227073839.23782.418615390805863955.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would greatly appreciate it if someone could give me the current address, email, and phone number of Prof. Georg von Simson, who recently retired from the University of Oslo. You may contact me off-list with the information. Many thanks, Ken Zysk From chlodwig.h.werba at UNIVIE.AC.AT Tue Feb 3 15:55:34 2004 From: chlodwig.h.werba at UNIVIE.AC.AT (srutavega) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 04 16:55:34 +0100 Subject: AW: Georg von Simson In-Reply-To: <5FA95E40EE2AD51190380090272724BBDA2160@humxsrv1.hum.ku.dk> Message-ID: <161227073841.23782.9139592854124076134.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> nivasanasthaanam eva tasyaabhihitasya jaanaami. idam likhyate: em. Univ.-Prof.Dr. Georg von Simson D?stere-Eichen-Weg 56 D - 37073 G?ttingen iti saadhayati ?srutavega.h. > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk]Im Auftrag von Kenneth > Zysk > Gesendet am: Dienstag, 3. Februar 2004 15.48 > An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Betreff: Georg von Simson > > I would greatly appreciate it if someone could give me the > current address, > email, and phone number of Prof. Georg von Simson, who recently > retired from > the University of Oslo. > > You may contact me off-list with the information. > > Many thanks, > > Ken Zysk > From rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ Wed Feb 4 22:40:51 2004 From: rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ (Richard Mahoney) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 04 11:40:51 +1300 Subject: CTAN Submission -- Devanagari for TeX v2.1 Message-ID: <161227073845.23782.12593120074759033821.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, fyi ----- Forwarded message from Robin Fairbairns ----- From: Robin.Fairbairns at cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) Newsgroups: comp.text.tex Subject: Re: CTAN Submission -- Devanagari for TeX v2.1 Anshuman Pandey writes > I've uploaded the file velthuis21.zip to ftp.tex.ac.uk. The zip > archive contains the latest release of the Devanagari for TeX package, > version 2.1. Please place the contents of the zip archive in > language/devanagari/velthuis/ after removing all existing files and > subdirectories from the directory. i've installed the files as requested. thanks for the upload. > Version 2.1 includes a new alternate Devanagari family that offers > character variants often used in the typography of Sanskrit texts. Robin Fairbairns For the CTAN team ----- End forwarded message ----- Best regards, Richard MAHONEY -- Richard MAHONEY | internet: homepages.comnet.net.nz/~r-mahoney Littledene | telephone / telefax (man.): ++64 3 312 1699 Bay Road | cellular: ++64 25 829 986 OXFORD, NZ | e-mail: r.mahoney at comnet.net.nz From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO Thu Feb 5 22:28:34 2004 From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 04 23:28:34 +0100 Subject: Hindi OCR Message-ID: <161227073847.23782.8840499072611095148.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of the list! Do any of you know of a commerically available scanner program that can handle Hindi? (Or for that matter: a non-commercial program) Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at online.no DO NOT OPEN UNEXPECTED ATTACHMENTS. MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS BEING ABUSED BY MALICIOUS OPERATORS. From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Feb 9 00:54:42 2004 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 04 00:54:42 +0000 Subject: some questions Message-ID: <161227073850.23782.14290797568438443336.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A friend of mine send these questions to me. If you have any suggestions, let me know. I don't know the answers. Madhav Deshpande COPIED MESSAGE: 1. This is trick sloka I heard (from one of my grandparents) when I was a child: ? kumaarasambhavaM Srutvaa raghuvamSe manohare ? raakshasaanaam kulSreshTo ramo rajeevalocana: What is the trick here? All I vaguely remember is that it has to do with breaking the first word as kum+aara+sambhavam. 2. In Narayaneeyam:42:11 the word "lambhitamangalaaSisha:" seems to trouble most commentators. However, I am unable to follow their analysis. What is the trouble here? From J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK Mon Feb 9 10:40:46 2004 From: J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK (John Brockington) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 04 10:40:46 +0000 Subject: 13th World Sanskrit Conference Message-ID: <161227073853.23782.2651314402005473054.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, There is now a website for the 13th World Sanskrit Conference to be held in Edinburgh in July 2006, which contains basic details and will be updated and expanded in due course as more details are decided and information becomes available. It is at and it includes a form for registration of interest. Yours John Brockington Professor J. L. Brockington Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies Sanskrit, School of Asian Studies 7-8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW U.K. tel: +131 650 4174 fax: +131 651 1258 From gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Feb 9 15:07:50 2004 From: gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (gruenendahl) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 04 15:07:50 +0000 Subject: Hindi OCR --> Sanskrit OCR In-Reply-To: <000401c3ec37$69bc7260$abfd4382@Winston> Message-ID: <161227073855.23782.8128019280668493156.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > Do any of you know of a commerically available scanner program that can > handle Hindi? (Or for that matter: a non-commercial program) Sorry, I don't know of any such programme. But let me take the opportunity to draw attention to an OCR programme for Sanskrit in Devanagari. It was developed by Oliver Hellwig at the Institute for Indian Philology, Freie Universit?t Berlin. Further information can be obtained from: http://www.sanskritreader.de The programme is still being improved, and offers of collaboration are welcome, I understand. It is a great help in digitizing Sanskrit texts! Several texts he digitized with SanskritReader are available on GRETIL, by the way. Best regards Reinhold Gr?nendahl ******************************************************************** Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 G?ttingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 Fax (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 23 61 gruenen at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Feb 9 23:21:26 2004 From: mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 04 17:21:26 -0600 Subject: Hanumannataka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073860.23782.8074311843271604988.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Allen Thrasher: If your patron can read French, there are still useful indications passim in S. Levi, Le theatre indien, where Mahaanataka is the title of reference. Matthew Kapstein From athr at LOC.GOV Mon Feb 9 23:11:28 2004 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 04 18:11:28 -0500 Subject: Hanumannataka Message-ID: <161227073858.23782.14865596588440720809.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A patron is interested in the Hanumannataka. Is anyone aware of a recent translation into English, perhaps in a journal? The results of my investigations so far for the patron may be of some interest in themselves to someone on the list: According to Montgomery Schuyler, A Bibliography of the Sanskrit Drama (New York: Columbia University Press, 1906; reprint New York, AMS Press, 1965) and Radhavallabh Tripathi and Nilakanth Dash, A New Bibliography of Sanskrit Drama (Delhi: Pratibha Prakashan, 1998), there were two English translations of the Hanumannataka in the nineteenth century: A Dramatic History of King Rama, trans. and ed. by K. K. Bahadur, Calcutta, 1840. 2 parts. trans. Raja Kali Krishna. Calcutta, no date. The above two bibliographies do not tell what libraries the items are found in. Upon researching the matter further I have concluded that these are two reports of the same translation, a copy of which is in the British Library and a microfilm of which is in Harvard University Library: The Maha-Nataka: a dramatic history of King Rama trans. Raja Kali Krishna Bahadur Calcutta: Printed by N. Robertson and Co., 1840, 2 pts. BL shelfmark: 14079.c.10. Microfilm. Cambridge, Mass. : Harvard College Library Imaging Services, 1998. 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm. Harvard College Library preservation microfilm program ; 01476. OCLC number: 39896066 Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Southern Asia Section Asian Division Library of Congress Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Tue Feb 10 10:14:57 2004 From: gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (gruenendahl) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 04 10:14:57 +0000 Subject: Mahanataka In-Reply-To: <001501c3d801$bd8988a0$d5cbce81@SFB619Lap3> Message-ID: <161227073863.23782.5913270767504594085.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christoph.emmrich at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Thu Feb 12 15:00:00 2004 From: christoph.emmrich at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Christoph Emmrich) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 04 16:00:00 +0100 Subject: 1st International Workshop on the Dynamics of Rituals Message-ID: <161227073866.23782.14391025523436577421.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear friends and colleagues, This is just a brief note to tell you that the 1st International Workshop on the Dynamics of Rituals is currently being organized by the Collaborative Research Centre (SFB 619) "Dynamics of Ritual" of Heidelberg University. The workshop will be held in Bhaktapur, Nepal from 23. August until 12. September 2004 and focus on "Rituals in Nepal". For more information on the workshop, how to apply etc. please click here and look at our website. (You may also use the hyperlink: http://www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de/index2.htm) With best regards, the organisers, Prof. Niels Gutschow, Dr. Brigitte Merz and Prof. Axel Michaels -- Christoph Emmrich Classical Indology South Asia Institute University of Heidelberg From acollins at GCI.NET Fri Feb 13 17:31:16 2004 From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 04 08:31:16 -0900 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara Message-ID: <161227073876.23782.16323777776486480938.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I believe Carol Lin Bodin (sp?) was working on a Ph.D. dissertation on the makara at the University of Chicago about 10-15 years ago. Al Collins ----- Original Message ----- From: John Huntington Date: Friday, February 13, 2004 8:18 am Subject: Re: graaha/nakra/makara > The artistic evidence regarding the term Makara: > > As represented in art, the makara is a complex composite creature > with representations from as early as the Mauryan period at the ca. > 250 B.C.E. Lomas Rishi cave through to the present day. It is clearly > not a crocodile an any stage of its representations that I am > familiar with. At Lomas Rishi the representation is quite elaphantine > and is four legged but a comparison with one of the elephants in the > same frieze clearly demonstrates it is not an elephant. > > In the Sanchi stupa two railing the makara is one of a series of > "auspicious" designs ( I am not at all certain if the term mangalam > would be appropriate for them however). Makara occur several time in > a variety of of configurations, again always as a composite of > several creatures. Again it is fairly elephantine but this time with > a fish tail in place of hind legs. > > From this point on the basic construct is pretty much set varying > elements come and go lion-like teeth, wings, scales, and something > auspicious comes out of its mouth, plants, animals, humans pearls > water and so on. > > Between, India, Nepal, and Tibet, I have a great number of > photographs of makara, dating from the Lomas Rishi example, cited > above, down to modern executions. > > I would be happy to send attachments of the two above and more if it > is desired, to anyone who would like to see them. > > In short, as configured in art, the makara is not a living natural > creature but rather a mythic composite that is a fundamental source > of water, life essence and well-being and prosperity. > It compares to the dragon in China, the naga in India. > > John C. Huntington > > > > > > -- > John C. Huntington, Professor > (Buddhist Art and Methodologies) > Department of the History of Art > 108 North Oval Mall > The Ohio state University > Columbus, OH 43210-1318 U.S.A. > > huntington.2 at osu.edu > Phones: > Direct Line to office (614) 688-8198 > Main Department Office: (614) 2927481 > Fax: (614) 292-4401 > > > Please see Dr. Dina Bangdel and my current exhibition at: > http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/exhib/circleofbliss/index.html > > > Please visit the Huntington Archive website at: > http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu > From J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK Fri Feb 13 09:23:26 2004 From: J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK (John Brockington) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 04 09:23:26 +0000 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara Message-ID: <161227073868.23782.4101507984037147019.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, Can anyone point me in the direction of more recent studies of any of these three terms than Vogel's "Errors in Sanskrit Dictionaries" in BSOAS 20? In that he shows that _makara_ means a crocodile but has only passing reference to the other two terms, which are usually thought also to mean the crocodile. What gives me cause for hesitation over this is that there occur dvandva compounds of these terms, which to my mind indicates that, though similar, they are not identical. [Specifically, in the Ramayana, we find _nakra_ and _makara_, and also _graaha_ and _nakra_, so linked, while I detect indications that _graaha_ is a riverine animal but _mahaagraaha_ is marine.] Also, while I am about it, what is the Sanskrit term for the third main crocodile species, the gharial/gavial? Does anyone know of any relevant literature? Yours John Brockington Professor J. L. Brockington Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies Sanskrit, School of Asian Studies 7-8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW U.K. tel: +131 650 4174 fax: +131 651 1258 From silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Fri Feb 13 18:24:25 2004 From: silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 04 10:24:25 -0800 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073883.23782.18025402020375060748.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> While I certainly would not wish to contradict John Huntington when it comes to artistic representations, when I recently discussed the question with Gail Maxwell of the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, a propos a Bharhut image, she showed me her extensive files on the depiction of the makara, including her evidence--I am not able to judge whether it is convincing--that the earliest images are based upon the Gavialis gangeticus, most particularly with regard to the evolution of the snout, which in the actual crocodile inflates when excited. (Another issue which might be relevant here is that at least at a later period there is a conflation of the makara with the timi, timingila and timitimingila [various spelt]). Cheers, JAS -- Jonathan Silk Department of Asian Languages & Cultures Center for Buddhist Studies UCLA 290 Royce Hall Box 951540 Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540 phone: (310)206-8235 fax: (310)825-8808 silk at humnet.ucla.edu From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Feb 13 16:57:43 2004 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 04 11:57:43 -0500 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara Message-ID: <161227073871.23782.3963913124350015612.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I wonder if mahagraha is indeed a marine animal whether it might refer to a sort of shark. Makaras are depicted in miniature paintings illustrating the Gajamocanastotra, they are usually clearly crocodiles. However, when the zodiacal sign Makara is depicted it is much more variously. You see depictions of Makararasi in the antique shops, when long janmapatrika scrolls with dozens of charts analyzing the horoscope in multiple ways and with illustrations of Ganesa, the grahas, and the rasis, have been cut up into individual yantras and miniatures suitable for framing. The makaras often look like hybrid creatures, sometimes crocodiles with leopard spots, sometimes a long low animal that appears to be furry and has a blunter snout. There are also, I think, ones that show the sign as a goat with a fish tail, as in the West; but I may have misremembered this. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Southern Asia Section Asian Division Library of Congress Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From tccahill at LOYNO.EDU Fri Feb 13 17:58:59 2004 From: tccahill at LOYNO.EDU (Timothy C. Cahill) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 04 11:58:59 -0600 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073880.23782.18058876394505912152.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, John Huntington wrote: > I would be happy to send attachments of the two above and more if it > is desired, to anyone who would like to see them. I believe that our Indology list does not allow attachments to be sent out to the whole list. So perhaps viewing what are presented as "makaras" on various web sites will help. These are just a few of the makara images are available on-line at: www.skidmore.edu/academics/asianstudies/TibetanPhotos/Cham/Cham.makara.side.jpg http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.flat3.co.uk/india/full_size/990140.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.flat3.co.uk/india/pages/990140.htm&h=443&w=550&sz=49&tbnid=PKI_Uw7s_XcJ:&tbnh=104&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmakara%26start%3D80%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.himalayan-imports.com/faq/Powell/makaraDragonOfAbundanceAndFertility.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.himalayan-imports.com/faq/carving.htm&h=372&w=576&sz=116&tbnid=tpsx2GAObWcJ:&tbnh=85&tbnw=131&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmakara%26start%3D80%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN [the last image on the page] I believe that they represent pretty well the description John Huntington gives above. best, Tim Cahill From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Fri Feb 13 17:18:09 2004 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John Huntington) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 04 12:18:09 -0500 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073873.23782.2137924895153574268.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The artistic evidence regarding the term Makara: As represented in art, the makara is a complex composite creature with representations from as early as the Mauryan period at the ca. 250 B.C.E. Lomas Rishi cave through to the present day. It is clearly not a crocodile an any stage of its representations that I am familiar with. At Lomas Rishi the representation is quite elaphantine and is four legged but a comparison with one of the elephants in the same frieze clearly demonstrates it is not an elephant. In the Sanchi stupa two railing the makara is one of a series of "auspicious" designs ( I am not at all certain if the term mangalam would be appropriate for them however). Makara occur several time in a variety of of configurations, again always as a composite of several creatures. Again it is fairly elephantine but this time with a fish tail in place of hind legs. From this point on the basic construct is pretty much set varying elements come and go lion-like teeth, wings, scales, and something auspicious comes out of its mouth, plants, animals, humans pearls water and so on. Between, India, Nepal, and Tibet, I have a great number of photographs of makara, dating from the Lomas Rishi example, cited above, down to modern executions. I would be happy to send attachments of the two above and more if it is desired, to anyone who would like to see them. In short, as configured in art, the makara is not a living natural creature but rather a mythic composite that is a fundamental source of water, life essence and well-being and prosperity. It compares to the dragon in China, the naga in India. John C. Huntington > -- John C. Huntington, Professor (Buddhist Art and Methodologies) Department of the History of Art 108 North Oval Mall The Ohio state University Columbus, OH 43210-1318 U.S.A. huntington.2 at osu.edu Phones: Direct Line to office (614) 688-8198 Main Department Office: (614) 2927481 Fax: (614) 292-4401 Please see Dr. Dina Bangdel and my current exhibition at: http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/exhib/circleofbliss/index.html Please visit the Huntington Archive website at: http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Feb 13 17:40:14 2004 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 04 12:40:14 -0500 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara Message-ID: <161227073878.23782.5006889912665119102.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Doesn't A.K. Coomaraswamy have a long discussion on the makara in art (mostly sculpture) somewhere, maybe in "Yaksas"? The 19th or 20th c. paintings of the makararasis I mentioned never look like the makaras in the classic sculpture, as outlined by John Huntington. Notably the elephant features and wings are never there. I don't think I've seen these in the depictions of the Gajamocana, either. I think I've seen the classic makaras in contemporary crafts, namely on sandalwood letter-openers. I have collected a few of the makararasis from horoscopes out of an interest in the depiction of mythological animals and could do digital photos and email them to individuals who are interested. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Southern Asia Section Asian Division Library of Congress Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Fri Feb 13 18:34:50 2004 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 04 18:34:50 +0000 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073885.23782.17762686402916183079.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I had makaras and nakras as different water-dwelling creatures in a list, in the part of the Kasyapasamhita that I translated in The Roots of Ayurveda. I used various reference publications, but especially those of the Natural History Society of Bombay, which gives superb descriptions of actual fauna, and also lists NIA terms. After considering everything I could lay my hands on, including contemporary names, I came up with "gharial" for "makara", and "crocodile" for "nakra". Cf. especially, Daniel, J.~C. (1983). {The book of Indian reptiles}, Bombay: Oxford University Press. Prater, S.~H (1993). {The book of Indian animals}, Bombay, Delhi, etc.: Oxford University Press, fourth edn. I took it as given that the medical text was referring, or intending to refer, to a real creature, rather than a chimera or fabulous beast. That's a big assumption. Best, Dominik From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Fri Feb 13 23:56:38 2004 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John Huntington) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 04 18:56:38 -0500 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073888.23782.12975178465338646608.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There is a good picture if a gharail at: http://www.neherp.com/img/jw/gharial.jpg The snout is far too long and slender to even suggest a makara to me. further the makara snout is always curled, which a gharail simply cannot do since it is an elongation of the skull see at: www.labalena.it/anatomia/ gaviale.htm or digimorph.org/specimens/ Gavialis_gangeticus/ One may also note that the makaras have a very thick snout base much like the elephant's trunk and no extended lower jaw such as the gharail has. John >While I certainly would not wish to contradict John Huntington when >it comes to artistic representations, when I recently discussed the >question with Gail Maxwell of the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, a >propos a Bharhut image, she showed me her extensive files on the >depiction of the makara, including her evidence--I am not able to >judge whether it is convincing--that the earliest images are based >upon the Gavialis gangeticus, most particularly with regard to the >evolution of the snout, which in the actual crocodile inflates when >excited. (Another issue which might be relevant here is that at >least at a later period there is a conflation of the makara with the >timi, timingila and timitimingila [various spelt]). > >Cheers, JAS >-- >Jonathan Silk >Department of Asian Languages & Cultures >Center for Buddhist Studies >UCLA >290 Royce Hall >Box 951540 >Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540 >phone: (310)206-8235 >fax: (310)825-8808 >silk at humnet.ucla.edu From wedemeyer at UCHICAGO.EDU Sat Feb 14 04:27:23 2004 From: wedemeyer at UCHICAGO.EDU (Christian K. Wedemeyer) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 04 22:27:23 -0600 Subject: Prof. Leslie Gunawardena Message-ID: <161227073891.23782.1920992890446065752.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, I am posting the following query on behalf of a colleague ( M. Kapstein): Can anyone please send to me the current e-mail or telephone no. of Prof. Leslie Gunawardena of the University of Peradeniya, Sri Lanka? thanks for your attention, Matthew Kapstein, m-kapstein at uchicago.edu -- Christian K. Wedemeyer Assistant Professor of the History of Religions The University of Chicago Divinity School 1025 East 58th Street Chicago, Illinois 60637 USA (773) 702-8265 (phone) (773) 702-8223 (fax) From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Sat Feb 14 08:29:13 2004 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 04 08:29:13 +0000 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073894.23782.14409861624229534075.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The situation is more complicated than this. The Ganges and Indus river dolphins (Platanista gangetica and Platanista minor) have long snouts remarkably like that of the gharial, and in profile at a distance are easily confused with it. (And I imagine you wouldn't be very inclined to swim up for a closer look....) I have seen photos illustrating this in a book on Whales and Dolphins, and it seemed to explain a lot about the apparent combined crocodile/dolphin character of the makara. For a photo of the Ganges River Dolphin (Susu) see: http://www.cetacea.org/ganges.htm Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK At 6:56 pm -0500 13/2/04, John Huntington wrote: >There is a good picture if a gharail at: >http://www.neherp.com/img/jw/gharial.jpg >The snout is far too long and slender to even suggest a makara to me. >further the makara snout is always curled, which a gharail simply >cannot do since it is an elongation of the skull see at: >www.labalena.it/anatomia/ gaviale.htm or digimorph.org/specimens/ >Gavialis_gangeticus/ One may also note that the makaras have a very >thick snout base much like the elephant's trunk and no extended lower >jaw such as the gharail has. > >John > >>While I certainly would not wish to contradict John Huntington when >>it comes to artistic representations, when I recently discussed the >>question with Gail Maxwell of the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, a >>propos a Bharhut image, she showed me her extensive files on the >>depiction of the makara, including her evidence--I am not able to >>judge whether it is convincing--that the earliest images are based >>upon the Gavialis gangeticus, most particularly with regard to the >>evolution of the snout, which in the actual crocodile inflates when >>excited. (Another issue which might be relevant here is that at >>least at a later period there is a conflation of the makara with the >>timi, timingila and timitimingila [various spelt]). >> >>Cheers, JAS >>-- >>Jonathan Silk >>Department of Asian Languages & Cultures >>Center for Buddhist Studies >>UCLA >>290 Royce Hall >>Box 951540 >>Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540 >>phone: (310)206-8235 >>fax: (310)825-8808 >>silk at humnet.ucla.edu From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sat Feb 14 17:07:35 2004 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 04 10:07:35 -0700 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara Message-ID: <161227073899.23782.2920811727535933254.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > These observations do not address later methods of rendering makaras. > Over time they in great ornamental arrays. One of these, by the > fifteenth century artist Jivarama was drawn in the N.S. 555 (1435) > sketchbook (now in the S. K. Neotia Collection) and was included as > part of a throne back to Rakta Ganapati that he painted for Peljor > Sangpo at Gyantse. See Dina's and my Circle of Bliss Catalog, pp > 495-7 or at: > > http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/exhib/circleofbliss/exhibition.html =========== Going to the web page to see this magnificent picture and the makaras, I note that in this case they are spouting live lotuses from their tails instead of their mouths that seem to support some kind of bird (the resolution is not clear enough to discern more than that). It also looks as though the deities just above their mouths are meant to be seen as having been ejected from their mouths? or not? Joanna Kirkpatrick From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Sat Feb 14 16:01:31 2004 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John Huntington) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 04 11:01:31 -0500 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073897.23782.7147302044981124138.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This is a very interesting suggestion, a possibility that I had never considered. However, I must say that I have exactly the same objections to the Gangetic dolphin as I cited for the Gharail, "The snout is far too long and slender ... etc. The discussion has led be to perform a detailed analysis of our complete photographs (almost 300) of the Sanchi 2 vedika. Without being able to send you the attachments this is a bit awkward (Monday I'll see if the archive personnel have time to make a small website) but I have some comments to make that clear up the issue for some. I have the following observations: All representations of ordinary animals on Sanchi 2 are very realistic and the anatomy of the respective creatures, mostly elephants, horses, lions, bulls, and humans is completely understood and portrayed in a naturalistic manner. Composite animals of several types, centaurs, leogryphs, elephants with antlers, and several others, are also easily determinable as to their respective components except for one feature, a leaf-like convention that appears to be a wing on a few of composite creatures. From these observations it appears that within the local conventions of the time, the artists were familiar with the fauna of their environment and able to convincingly portray what they chose as models. more importantly they appear to have been absolutely consistent in this methodology. Even for mythic creatures the models are easily determinable (this, by the way, has been true since Harappan times and thus it fits the pattern of "continuity" in the Indic material cultural record). This leads me to the following conclusion regarding makara representations at Sanchi stupa 2. The head and fore quarters are those of an elephant without tusks and the hind quarters are those of a finned fish although no scales are shown. The tail shape is vertical like that of a fish and two of the three examples actually have rear fins as well (cetaceans have horizontal tail flukes and no rear fins-like appendages). These observations do not address later methods of rendering makaras. Over time they in great ornamental arrays. One of these, by the fifteenth century artist Jivarama was drawn in the N.S. 555 (1435) sketchbook (now in the S. K. Neotia Collection) and was included as part of a throne back to Rakta Ganapati that he painted for Peljor Sangpo at Gyantse. See Dina's and my Circle of Bliss Catalog, pp 495-7 or at: http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/exhib/circleofbliss/exhibition.html (you will have to enter the exhibition website and go to section 13, then to the second item in the section, then to the Full Screen Image) Thank you all for the fun you have given me in reviewing something I have not thought much about for many years. John >The situation is more complicated than this. The Ganges and Indus >river dolphins (Platanista gangetica and Platanista minor) have long >snouts remarkably like that of the gharial, and in profile at a >distance are easily confused with it. (And I imagine you wouldn't be >very inclined to swim up for a closer look....) I have seen photos >illustrating this in a book on Whales and Dolphins, and it seemed to >explain a lot about the apparent combined crocodile/dolphin character >of the makara. > >For a photo of the Ganges River Dolphin (Susu) see: > >http://www.cetacea.org/ganges.htm > >Valerie J Roebuck >Manchester, UK > >At 6:56 pm -0500 13/2/04, John Huntington wrote: >>There is a good picture if a gharail at: >>http://www.neherp.com/img/jw/gharial.jpg >>The snout is far too long and slender to even suggest a makara to me. >>further the makara snout is always curled, which a gharail simply >>cannot do since it is an elongation of the skull see at: >>www.labalena.it/anatomia/ gaviale.htm or digimorph.org/specimens/ >>Gavialis_gangeticus/ One may also note that the makaras have a very >>thick snout base much like the elephant's trunk and no extended lower >>jaw such as the gharail has. >> >>John >> >>>While I certainly would not wish to contradict John Huntington when >>>it comes to artistic representations, when I recently discussed the >>>question with Gail Maxwell of the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, a >>>propos a Bharhut image, she showed me her extensive files on the >>>depiction of the makara, including her evidence--I am not able to >>>judge whether it is convincing--that the earliest images are based >>>upon the Gavialis gangeticus, most particularly with regard to the >>>evolution of the snout, which in the actual crocodile inflates when >>>excited. (Another issue which might be relevant here is that at >>>least at a later period there is a conflation of the makara with the >>>timi, timingila and timitimingila [various spelt]). >>> >>>Cheers, JAS >>>-- >>>Jonathan Silk >>>Department of Asian Languages & Cultures >>>Center for Buddhist Studies >>>UCLA >>>290 Royce Hall >>>Box 951540 >>>Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540 >>>phone: (310)206-8235 >>>fax: (310)825-8808 >>>silk at humnet.ucla.edu From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Sat Feb 14 18:11:36 2004 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John Huntington) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 04 13:11:36 -0500 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: <002601c3f31d$0afe6070$2930cece@charlie> Message-ID: <161227073901.23782.17926269538781290403.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Our web person was in doing some work today and said he could put up the makaras on Monday. I'll Put up a detail of the Rakta Ganesh one with a detailed explanation. John > > These observations do not address later methods of rendering makaras. >> Over time they in great ornamental arrays. One of these, by the >> fifteenth century artist Jivarama was drawn in the N.S. 555 (1435) >> sketchbook (now in the S. K. Neotia Collection) and was included as >> part of a throne back to Rakta Ganapati that he painted for Peljor >> Sangpo at Gyantse. See Dina's and my Circle of Bliss Catalog, pp >> 495-7 or at: >> >> >http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/exhib/circleofbliss/exhibition.html >=========== >Going to the web page to see this magnificent picture and the makaras, I >note that in this case they are spouting live lotuses from their tails >instead of their mouths that seem to support some kind of bird (the >resolution is not clear enough to discern more than that). It also looks as >though the deities just above their mouths are meant to be seen as having >been ejected from their mouths? or not? >Joanna Kirkpatrick From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sun Feb 15 03:18:07 2004 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 04 20:18:07 -0700 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara Message-ID: <161227073909.23782.10620927882339601794.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear McComas, Your quotation sounds a lot like David G. Mandelbaum--but I'm not sure. The term used in anthropology was usually biradari. Mandelbaum, David (especially his 2 vol summaries of a lot of village studies literature--_Society in India , 2 vols: Continuity and Change; Change and Continuity_. S. Asia Books brought out an edition in 1991--but it came out much earlier than that. Joanna Kirkpatrick ============= > Dear Friends > > I wonder if any of you good folk could help me find a quotation that went > something like this: > > `If you read the scriptures, you'd think India was about vaRnas; if you read > colonial censuses, you'd think it was about jAti; if you are an > anthropologist in a village, you'd think it was about brotherhoods.' > > The word for brotherhood was a derivative of bhratR. I thought it might be > from McKim Marriott or Dumont, or possibly Inden, Pollock, Dirks... > > With greetings and thanks in advance from a sweltering Canberra summer. > > McComas > > > > > > Does this ring a bell? > > > > Many thanks > > > > McComasCan anyone help me From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Sun Feb 15 08:48:54 2004 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 04 08:48:54 +0000 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073911.23782.1399070027390875081.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Up to a point.... Sometimes *we* are the ones who are imprecise. Think of the famous Indian painting in the V & A cheerfully captioned 'Lady with a Hawk', when the Lady is holding an extemely accurate portrayal of a Lugger Falcon (Falco juggur). I think on the whole people in earlier times in India and elsewhere probably knew a lot more about wildlife and nature than most of us do--they had to--but they didn't think about it in the same categories (mammal, reptile, species, genus, etc). Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK >Dear list members > >My feeling from looking at the names of birds in KAlidAsa that it is not >really appropriate to try to identify traditional names with their precise >modern equivalents. The two systems are not necessarily compatible. >Traditional authors were not troubled by a lesser degree of precision. >Trying to name a makara is a little like trying to identify a leviathan: was >it a shark or a whale or something else? In fact, it is a sign for something >big and frightening in the water. Different authors probably used the same >word with different things in mind. > >With bows > >McComas > >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk]On Behalf Of John >Brockington >Sent: Friday, 13 February 2004 8:23 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: graaha/nakra/makara > > >Dear Colleagues, > >Can anyone point me in the direction of more recent studies of any of these >three terms than Vogel's "Errors in Sanskrit Dictionaries" in BSOAS 20? In >that he shows that _makara_ means a crocodile but has only passing reference >to the other two terms, which are usually thought also to mean the >crocodile. What gives me cause for hesitation over this is that there occur >dvandva compounds of these terms, which to my mind indicates that, though >similar, they are not identical. [Specifically, in the Ramayana, we find >_nakra_ and _makara_, and also _graaha_ and _nakra_, so linked, while I >detect indications that _graaha_ is a riverine animal but _mahaagraaha_ is >marine.] Also, while I am about it, what is the Sanskrit term for the third >main crocodile species, the gharial/gavial? Does anyone know of any >relevant literature? > >Yours > >John Brockington > > >Professor J. L. Brockington >Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies > >Sanskrit, School of Asian Studies >7-8 Buccleuch Place >Edinburgh EH8 9LW U.K. > >tel: +131 650 4174 >fax: +131 651 1258 From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Sun Feb 15 16:11:28 2004 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John Huntington) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 04 11:11:28 -0500 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073916.23782.3700588058110046222.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Actually, the artistic evidence suggests other wise. Although there is a evolving and ever increasing elaboration to representations of the makara, the fundamental elements of this creature remain remarkably constant. We have other auspicious components (e.g., shardula and vyalaka) that also are astonishingly consistant. John C. Huntington >Dear list members > >My feeling from looking at the names of birds in KAlidAsa that it is not >really appropriate to try to identify traditional names with their precise >modern equivalents. The two systems are not necessarily compatible. >Traditional authors were not troubled by a lesser degree of precision. >Trying to name a makara is a little like trying to identify a leviathan: was >it a shark or a whale or something else? In fact, it is a sign for something >big and frightening in the water. Different authors probably used the same >word with different things in mind. > >With bows > >McComas > >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk]On Behalf Of John >Brockington >Sent: Friday, 13 February 2004 8:23 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: graaha/nakra/makara > > >Dear Colleagues, > >Can anyone point me in the direction of more recent studies of any of these >three terms than Vogel's "Errors in Sanskrit Dictionaries" in BSOAS 20? In >that he shows that _makara_ means a crocodile but has only passing reference >to the other two terms, which are usually thought also to mean the >crocodile. What gives me cause for hesitation over this is that there occur >dvandva compounds of these terms, which to my mind indicates that, though >similar, they are not identical. [Specifically, in the Ramayana, we find >_nakra_ and _makara_, and also _graaha_ and _nakra_, so linked, while I >detect indications that _graaha_ is a riverine animal but _mahaagraaha_ is >marine.] Also, while I am about it, what is the Sanskrit term for the third >main crocodile species, the gharial/gavial? Does anyone know of any >relevant literature? > >Yours > >John Brockington > > >Professor J. L. Brockington >Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies > >Sanskrit, School of Asian Studies >7-8 Buccleuch Place >Edinburgh EH8 9LW U.K. > >tel: +131 650 4174 >fax: +131 651 1258 From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Sun Feb 15 00:54:55 2004 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 04 11:54:55 +1100 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073904.23782.10568093413999145462.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Friends I wonder if any of you good folk could help me find a quotation that went something like this: `If you read the scriptures, you'd think India was about vaRnas; if you read colonial censuses, you'd think it was about jAti; if you are an anthropologist in a village, you'd think it was about brotherhoods.' The word for brotherhood was a derivative of bhratR. I thought it might be from McKim Marriott or Dumont, or possibly Inden, Pollock, Dirks... With greetings and thanks in advance from a sweltering Canberra summer. McComas > > Does this ring a bell? > > Many thanks > > McComasCan anyone help me -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk]On Behalf Of John Brockington Sent: Friday, 13 February 2004 8:23 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: graaha/nakra/makara Dear Colleagues, Can anyone point me in the direction of more recent studies of any of these three terms than Vogel's "Errors in Sanskrit Dictionaries" in BSOAS 20? In that he shows that _makara_ means a crocodile but has only passing reference to the other two terms, which are usually thought also to mean the crocodile. What gives me cause for hesitation over this is that there occur dvandva compounds of these terms, which to my mind indicates that, though similar, they are not identical. [Specifically, in the Ramayana, we find _nakra_ and _makara_, and also _graaha_ and _nakra_, so linked, while I detect indications that _graaha_ is a riverine animal but _mahaagraaha_ is marine.] Also, while I am about it, what is the Sanskrit term for the third main crocodile species, the gharial/gavial? Does anyone know of any relevant literature? Yours John Brockington Professor J. L. Brockington Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies Sanskrit, School of Asian Studies 7-8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW U.K. tel: +131 650 4174 fax: +131 651 1258 From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Sun Feb 15 01:05:00 2004 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 04 12:05:00 +1100 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073906.23782.4132870161669220812.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear list members My feeling from looking at the names of birds in KAlidAsa that it is not really appropriate to try to identify traditional names with their precise modern equivalents. The two systems are not necessarily compatible. Traditional authors were not troubled by a lesser degree of precision. Trying to name a makara is a little like trying to identify a leviathan: was it a shark or a whale or something else? In fact, it is a sign for something big and frightening in the water. Different authors probably used the same word with different things in mind. With bows McComas -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk]On Behalf Of John Brockington Sent: Friday, 13 February 2004 8:23 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: graaha/nakra/makara Dear Colleagues, Can anyone point me in the direction of more recent studies of any of these three terms than Vogel's "Errors in Sanskrit Dictionaries" in BSOAS 20? In that he shows that _makara_ means a crocodile but has only passing reference to the other two terms, which are usually thought also to mean the crocodile. What gives me cause for hesitation over this is that there occur dvandva compounds of these terms, which to my mind indicates that, though similar, they are not identical. [Specifically, in the Ramayana, we find _nakra_ and _makara_, and also _graaha_ and _nakra_, so linked, while I detect indications that _graaha_ is a riverine animal but _mahaagraaha_ is marine.] Also, while I am about it, what is the Sanskrit term for the third main crocodile species, the gharial/gavial? Does anyone know of any relevant literature? Yours John Brockington Professor J. L. Brockington Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies Sanskrit, School of Asian Studies 7-8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW U.K. tel: +131 650 4174 fax: +131 651 1258 From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Sun Feb 15 13:47:41 2004 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 04 13:47:41 +0000 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073914.23782.12528170970720557280.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, McComas Taylor wrote: > it a shark or a whale or something else? In fact, it is a sign for something > big and frightening in the water. ... like a timingala? :-) Dominik From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Mon Feb 16 18:56:04 2004 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 04 10:56:04 -0800 Subject: Prof. Leslie Gunawardena Message-ID: <161227073921.23782.7001756896122949413.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have this e-mail address for him: leslieg12 at hotmail.com Richard Salomon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian K. Wedemeyer" To: Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 8:27 PM Subject: Prof. Leslie Gunawardena > Dear Colleagues, > > I am posting the following query on behalf of a colleague ( M. Kapstein): > > Can anyone please send to me the current e-mail or telephone > no. of Prof. Leslie Gunawardena of the University of Peradeniya, > Sri Lanka? > > thanks for your attention, > Matthew Kapstein, m-kapstein at uchicago.edu > > -- > Christian K. Wedemeyer > Assistant Professor of the History of Religions > The University of Chicago Divinity School > 1025 East 58th Street > Chicago, Illinois 60637 USA > (773) 702-8265 (phone) > (773) 702-8223 (fax) > From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Mon Feb 16 16:35:54 2004 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John Huntington) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 04 11:35:54 -0500 Subject: Makara Website In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073919.23782.14948241851330181664.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, Thanks to Andrew LaMoreaux, the Huntington archive's imaging specialist I am able to share with those who wish to see them the Makara the images I have been referring to in the "Makara" discussion. It is at: http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/makara/index.html Or it may be accessed from the home page http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/ through "Projects" then "Indology Images & Discussion." I have added a makara from the Jivarama Sketchbook of N.S. 555, to help explain the painting I referred to in the Circle of Bliss and a large detail of that painting. In addition I have also added two very different makara from the same time and place, Vasu Vinhar, a 6th century site in Bangla Desh. Cheers, John From jkirk at SPRO.NET Mon Feb 16 23:26:43 2004 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 04 16:26:43 -0700 Subject: Makara Website Message-ID: <161227073923.23782.5692112462348337796.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear John Huntington, Thanks so much for posting this lovely makara collection with comment. Is there any chance that the composite bird perched on the lotus that grows out of the makara's water tail might be a version of the phoenix? I'm curious also as to how you know the makara's tail is a "water" tail: is that how it's glossed in the relevant languages? Regards, Joanna Kirkpatrick =============================== > Dear colleagues, > > Thanks to Andrew LaMoreaux, the Huntington archive's imaging specialist > > I am able to share with those who wish to see them the Makara the > images I have been referring to in the "Makara" discussion. > > It is at: http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/makara/index.html > > Or it may be accessed from the home page > http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/ through "Projects" then > "Indology Images & Discussion." > > I have added a makara from the Jivarama Sketchbook of N.S. 555, to > help explain the painting I referred to in the Circle of Bliss and a > large detail of that painting. In addition I have also added two very > different makara from the same time and place, Vasu Vinhar, a 6th > century site in Bangla Desh. > > Cheers, > > John > > From J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK Tue Feb 17 18:02:18 2004 From: J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK (John Brockington) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 04 18:02:18 +0000 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073926.23782.7181591286304771240.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, My warm thanks to all those who have contributed to the discussion of these terms, both in the literary context and the visual. Any further comments (or leads to secondary literature) will still be welcome. Yours John Brockington Professor J. L. Brockington Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies Sanskrit, School of Asian Studies 7-8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW U.K. tel: +131 650 4174 fax: +131 651 1258 From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET Wed Feb 18 07:32:50 2004 From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 04 07:32:50 +0000 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073928.23782.4046785930383120474.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A thought has come to mind re the astrological makara. VarAhamihira (BRhajjAtaka I.5) lists this sign among the ones that *don't* look exactly like the thing they're named after, and says: makaro mRgAsya, 'the makara has the face of a deer'. Similarly MInarAja describes it as 'a makara with the front half of a deer' (vRddhayavanajAtaka I.13? Sorry, original text not to hand). Which suggests to me that the astrological makara was originally thought of as not being a *normal* makara, but a special, deer-headed one. Sometimes, in fact, it's called 'mRga' for short (as is the lunar mansion of mRgaziras, which can cause confusion among the unwary). Originally, perhaps, the astrologers needed a word to describe the classical symbol of the capricorn, and the word 'makara' was the obvious one to use. They saw the front half as a deer rather than a goat, perhaps because the deer was already a familiar astrological beast. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK At 6:02 pm +0000 17/2/04, John Brockington wrote: >Dear Colleagues, > >My warm thanks to all those who have contributed to the discussion of these >terms, both in the literary context and the visual. Any further comments >(or leads to secondary literature) will still be welcome. > >Yours > >John Brockington > > >Professor J. L. Brockington >Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies > >Sanskrit, School of Asian Studies >7-8 Buccleuch Place >Edinburgh EH8 9LW U.K. > >tel: +131 650 4174 >fax: +131 651 1258 From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Feb 19 02:24:46 2004 From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 04 18:24:46 -0800 Subject: Emeneau's 100th birthday Message-ID: <161227073931.23782.283923157859107588.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> List members: February 28th is the 100th birthday of the great Indologist Murray B. Emeneau, which is being celebrated at a symposium in Berkeley CA on Feb. 20-21; see http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~garrett/LanguageEcologyConference.pdf . A contact address is given there, which, I suppose, can be used for sending congratulatory messages. May all Indologists live to be 100 in the future! ("jijiivis.ecchatam. samaah.") Richard Salomon From swantam at ASIANETINDIA.COM Thu Feb 19 16:51:27 2004 From: swantam at ASIANETINDIA.COM (Maheswaran Nair) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 04 21:51:27 +0500 Subject: query Message-ID: <161227073933.23782.2583924641674376962.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello, Please tell me the exact place of occurrence of the following lines of Ramayana(?) Api svarnamayii lankaa na me lakshmana rocate jananii janmabhuumisca svargaadapi gariiyasii. Thanks in advance. K.Maheswaran Nair Ph.D. Professor of Sanskrit & Director Centre for Vedanta Studies University of Kerala Trivandrum, India From J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK Fri Feb 20 09:24:15 2004 From: J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK (John Brockington) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 04 09:24:15 +0000 Subject: query In-Reply-To: <15eab415d2ae.15d2ae15eab4@asianetindia.com> Message-ID: <161227073935.23782.15963412119867451170.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> on 19/2/04 4:51 pm, Maheswaran Nair wrote: > Hello, > Please tell me the exact place of occurrence of the following lines of > Ramayana(?) > Api svarnamayii lankaa na me lakshmana rocate > jananii janmabhuumisca svargaadapi gariiyasii. > > Thanks in advance. > K.Maheswaran Nair Ph.D. > Professor of Sanskrit & Director > Centre for Vedanta Studies > University of Kerala > Trivandrum, India > See the posting by Jan Houben to this list on 7th June 2003 in response to a query by Pradip Bhattacharya. This verse does not occur in the Valmiki Ramayana and no-one has yet suggested where else it may be found. John Brockington Professor J. L. Brockington Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies Sanskrit, School of Asian Studies 7-8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW U.K. tel: +131 650 4174 fax: +131 651 1258 From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO Fri Feb 20 09:31:11 2004 From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 04 10:31:11 +0100 Subject: Hindi position Message-ID: <161227073937.23782.14976617524135540755.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of the list! I would like to draw the attention of the members of the list to the following announcement of a vacant position of associate professor of Hindi at the University of Oslo, Norway. http://www.hf.uio.no/ledige-stillinger/ Please follow the link above. Go to: F?rsteamanuensis (hindi) Institutt for ?steuropeiske og orientalske studier S?knadsfrist:: 20. april 2004 The deadline is April 20th 2004. Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at online.no DO NOT OPEN UNEXPECTED ATTACHMENTS. MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS BEING ABUSED BY MALICIOUS OPERATORS. From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO Fri Feb 20 10:07:21 2004 From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 04 11:07:21 +0100 Subject: SV: Hindi position In-Reply-To: <000e01c3f794$479da4c0$1ab44382@Winston> Message-ID: <161227073939.23782.7562713134874249901.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of the list! Apparently, the web address below got garbled in transfer. Therefore, try the following one: More info: http://www.admin.uio.no/opa/ledige-stillinger/assprofhindiDepeasteuropea n.html Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at online.no DO NOT OPEN UNEXPECTED ATTACHMENTS. MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS BEING ABUSED BY MALICIOUS OPERATORS. > -----Opprinnelig melding----- > Fra: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] P? vegne av > Lars Martin Fosse > Sendt: 20. februar 2004 10:31 > Til: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Emne: Hindi position > > > Dear members of the list! > > I would like to draw the attention of the members of the list > to the following announcement of a vacant position of > associate professor of Hindi at the University of Oslo, Norway. > http://www.hf.uio.no/ledige-stillinger/ Please follow the link above. Go to: F?rsteamanuensis (hindi) Institutt for ?steuropeiske og orientalske studier S?knadsfrist:: 20. april 2004 The deadline is April 20th 2004. Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at online.no DO NOT OPEN UNEXPECTED ATTACHMENTS. MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS BEING ABUSED BY MALICIOUS OPERATORS. From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO Fri Feb 20 14:05:54 2004 From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 04 15:05:54 +0100 Subject: VS: VS: Hindi position Message-ID: <161227073942.23782.14215890857534334411.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of the list, Ruth Schmidt has asked me to correct her e-mail address. See below. Re: Hindi position at University of Oslo Ruth Schmidt's correct email address is: r.l.schmidt at east.uio.no -- *********************************************** Dept. of East European and Oriental Studies University of Oslo P.O. Box 1030 Blindern N-0315 Oslo, Norway Phone: (47) 22 85 55 86 Fax: (47) 22 85 41 40 Email: r.l.schmidt at east.uio.no DO NOT OPEN UNEXPECTED ATTACHMENTS. MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS BEING ABUSED BY MALICIOUS OPERATORS. From silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Sun Feb 22 18:37:57 2004 From: silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Jonathan Silk) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 04 10:37:57 -0800 Subject: a difficult word Message-ID: <161227073947.23782.7078118519324378020.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In the Yazastilaka (Zivadatta 1903: ii.95-96) we find the passage: zruuyate hi: vangiima.n.dale n.rpatido.saad bhuudeve.sv aasavopayoga.h paarasiike.su ca svasavitriisamyoga.h simhale.su ca vizvaamitras.r.s.tiprayoga iti. It is said that in Bengal Brahmins consume alcoholic spirits thanks to the sinfulness of the king, and the Persians have sexual relations with their own mothers, and the Ceylonese mix castes. The commentary explains the last term as var.nasamkara, but while I am certainly willing to accept this, I do not understand why it should be so. Why does vizvaamitras.r.s.tiprayoga mean var.nasamkara? (Incidentally, the usually very detailed commentary omits any remarks at all about svasavitriisamyoga.h). thanks in advance, JAS (PS: I am aware that the entire passage is offered in criticism of the bad moral influence of kings, and that my translation might suggest that the criticism extends only to Bengal--but is there some reason why the word n.rpatido.saad should not come at the beginning of the citation, where it might more clearly apply to all three items?) -- Jonathan Silk Department of Asian Languages & Cultures Center for Buddhist Studies UCLA 290 Royce Hall Box 951540 Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540 phone: (310)206-8235 fax: (310)825-8808 silk at humnet.ucla.edu From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO Sun Feb 22 15:23:25 2004 From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 04 16:23:25 +0100 Subject: VS: [ScS] South Asian snake lore Message-ID: <161227073945.23782.5453533522481533135.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of the list, I am passing the message below on to you. Pls answer directly to Ruth Schmidt, who is not on this list. Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: Ruth L. Schmidt [mailto:r.l.schmidt at east.uio.no] Sendt: 22. februar 2004 16:13 Til: ScholarlyServices at yahoogroups.com Emne: [ScS] South Asian snake lore Dear members of the list, I am looking for recent references to South Asian Naga-lore or snake-lore. They may apply to any historical period including the present, but I am primarily interested in works written recently. Thank you for information on this topic. With best wishes, Ruth Schmidt -- *********************************************** Dept. of East European and Oriental Studies University of Oslo P.O. Box 1030 Blindern N-0315 Oslo, Norway Phone: (47) 22 85 55 86 Fax: (47) 22 85 41 40 Email: r.l.schmidt at east.uio.no DO NOT OPEN UNEXPECTED ATTACHMENTS. MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS BEING ABUSED BY MALICIOUS OPERATORS. From adheesh at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU Mon Feb 23 00:27:54 2004 From: adheesh at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (adheesh sathaye) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 04 16:27:54 -0800 Subject: a difficult word In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227073949.23782.1542943125575382447.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Very interesting passage, and I would love to know more about the context! 'vizvaamitras.r.stiprayoga' would refer, I believe, to the alternate creation engineered by the rsi Visvamitra in his efforts to send the king-cursed-to-be-a-Candala Trisanku into heaven in his own body (sadeha). This narrative is best detailed in the Balakanda of the Ramayana, Ram 1.56-1.59, though it is also found in different versions in a slew of puranas, most interesting of which, perhaps are DeviBhagavataP 7.10-14 and SkandaP (Nagarakhanda) 6.2-8. This counter-creation, usually termed a prati-srsti in modern accounts, but often just srsti in epic and puranic texts, is now blamed for 'defective' versions of the real thing - the water buffalo for the cow, the October monsoon for the June monsoon, the donkey for the horse, and so on. Visvamitra (the subject of my dissertation) serves in epic and puranic texts as an icon of varnasamkara primarily due to his having changed his varna from ksatriya to brahman, also inhis own body. So when the passage is referring to VM-srsti-prayoga, it is likely referring both to this notion of intermixture (of kings becoming brahmans, perhaps?) as well as to his counter-creation. hope this is useful, Adheesh Sathaye PhD Candidate, Dept of South and Southeast Asian Studies University of California, Berkeley Jonathan Silk wrote: > In the Yazastilaka (Zivadatta 1903: ii.95-96) we find the passage: > > zruuyate hi: vangiima.n.dale n.rpatido.saad bhuudeve.sv > aasavopayoga.h paarasiike.su ca svasavitriisamyoga.h simhale.su ca > vizvaamitras.r.s.tiprayoga iti. > > It is said that in Bengal Brahmins consume alcoholic spirits thanks > to the sinfulness of the king, and the Persians have sexual relations > with their own mothers, and the Ceylonese mix castes. > > > The commentary explains the last term as var.nasamkara, but while I > am certainly willing to accept this, I do not understand why it > should be so. Why does vizvaamitras.r.s.tiprayoga mean var.nasamkara? > > (Incidentally, the usually very detailed commentary omits any remarks > at all about svasavitriisamyoga.h). > > thanks in advance, JAS > > (PS: I am aware that the entire passage is offered in criticism of > the bad moral influence of kings, and that my translation might > suggest that the criticism extends only to Bengal--but is there some > reason why the word n.rpatido.saad should not come at the beginning > of the citation, where it might more clearly apply to all three > items?) > -- > Jonathan Silk > Department of Asian Languages & Cultures > Center for Buddhist Studies > UCLA > 290 Royce Hall > Box 951540 > Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540 > phone: (310)206-8235 > fax: (310)825-8808 > silk at humnet.ucla.edu > > From sseas at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU Mon Feb 23 21:55:39 2004 From: sseas at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (Robert Goldman) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 04 13:55:39 -0800 Subject: Dr. V. P. Bhatta In-Reply-To: <001701c3f9f5$df5e2a60$4ec809c0@indok> Message-ID: <161227073956.23782.3908652235229535172.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > >Dr. V. P. Bhatta >Sanskrit Dictionary Department >Deccan College Post-Graduate and Research Institute >Pune 411-006 >INDIA >Dear list members, > I am looking for the address of Dr. V. P. Bhatta who is the author >of the book "Navya nyaya theory of verbal cognition". I hope some of >you have his correct phone number and correct adress. >Please let me know the same. >veernarayana >French Institute of Pondicherry. -- Dr. R. P. Goldman Professor of Sanskrit Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies 7303 Dwinelle Hall MC #2540 University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 email: sseas at socrates.berkeley.edu Phone: (510) 642-4089 Fax: (510) 642.2409 From veerankp at IFPINDIA.ORG Mon Feb 23 10:14:48 2004 From: veerankp at IFPINDIA.ORG (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 04 15:44:48 +0530 Subject: Dr. V. P. Bhatta Message-ID: <161227073953.23782.8412913973346687047.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear list members, I am looking for the address of Dr. V. P. Bhatta who is the author of the book "Navya nyaya theory of verbal cognition". I hope some of you have his correct phone number and correct adress. Please let me know the same. veernarayana French Institute of Pondicherry. From jkirk at SPRO.NET Thu Feb 26 02:05:22 2004 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 04 19:05:22 -0700 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara Message-ID: <161227073961.23782.11000901117296071488.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Aw heck! Pauline Kolenda wrote a lot about caste and varna--why not try to find her via the office of the anthro dept at Univ. of Houston: carous at uh.edu "Pauline Kolenda is Emerita Professor of Anthropology at the University of Houston, Texas, USA" If you have not met her, she is a very nice woman, approachable. ----- Original Message ----- From: "McComas Taylor" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 6:21 PM Subject: Re: graaha/nakra/makara > Thanks JK - I had a good look in Mandelbaum - which I enjoyed for many other > reasons, but couldn't find this one. > > Yours > > McC > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk]On Behalf Of jkirk > Sent: Sunday, 15 February 2004 2:18 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: graaha/nakra/makara > > > Dear McComas, > > Your quotation sounds a lot like David G. Mandelbaum--but I'm not sure. The > term used in anthropology was usually biradari. > Mandelbaum, David (especially his 2 vol summaries of a lot of village > studies literature--_Society in India , 2 vols: Continuity and Change; > Change and Continuity_. > S. Asia Books brought out an edition in 1991--but it came out much earlier > than that. > > Joanna Kirkpatrick > ============= > > > Dear Friends > > > > I wonder if any of you good folk could help me find a quotation that went > > something like this: > > > > `If you read the scriptures, you'd think India was about vaRnas; if you > read > > colonial censuses, you'd think it was about jAti; if you are an > > anthropologist in a village, you'd think it was about brotherhoods.' > > > > The word for brotherhood was a derivative of bhratR. I thought it might be > > from McKim Marriott or Dumont, or possibly Inden, Pollock, Dirks... > > > > With greetings and thanks in advance from a sweltering Canberra summer. > > > > McComas > > > > > > > > > > Does this ring a bell? > > > > > > Many thanks > > > > > > McComasCan anyone help me > > From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Thu Feb 26 01:21:29 2004 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 04 12:21:29 +1100 Subject: graaha/nakra/makara In-Reply-To: <003101c3f372$551cfbd0$2930cece@charlie> Message-ID: <161227073958.23782.10126501305297923050.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks JK - I had a good look in Mandelbaum - which I enjoyed for many other reasons, but couldn't find this one. Yours McC -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk]On Behalf Of jkirk Sent: Sunday, 15 February 2004 2:18 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: graaha/nakra/makara Dear McComas, Your quotation sounds a lot like David G. Mandelbaum--but I'm not sure. The term used in anthropology was usually biradari. Mandelbaum, David (especially his 2 vol summaries of a lot of village studies literature--_Society in India , 2 vols: Continuity and Change; Change and Continuity_. S. Asia Books brought out an edition in 1991--but it came out much earlier than that. Joanna Kirkpatrick ============= > Dear Friends > > I wonder if any of you good folk could help me find a quotation that went > something like this: > > `If you read the scriptures, you'd think India was about vaRnas; if you read > colonial censuses, you'd think it was about jAti; if you are an > anthropologist in a village, you'd think it was about brotherhoods.' > > The word for brotherhood was a derivative of bhratR. I thought it might be > from McKim Marriott or Dumont, or possibly Inden, Pollock, Dirks... > > With greetings and thanks in advance from a sweltering Canberra summer. > > McComas > > > > > > Does this ring a bell? > > > > Many thanks > > > > McComasCan anyone help me From joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU Fri Feb 27 14:05:01 2004 From: joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU (Joseph Walser) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 04 09:05:01 -0500 Subject: Buddhist pedagogical history In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040227131507.00b9f4d8@pop.lu.se> Message-ID: <161227073970.23782.14037284081101015155.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Your friend may want to look at vinaya texts dealing with the education of novices. Also: Singh, Sanghasen and Kenryo Minowa, ed. and trans. "A Critical Edition and Translation of Abhidamacarika Nama Bhiksu-Prakirnakah" _Buddhist Studies_, Department of Buddhist Studies, University of Delhi, vol. 12 (March 1988): pp. 81-143. Sylvain Levi also touches on the subject in his article, "Sur la recitation primitive des textes bouddhiques." Journal Asiatique, ser. II, vol. 5 (1915): pp. 401-447. I hope this helps some. Joseph Walser Quoting Martin Gansten : > A friend who is not a member of this list has asked me to post the > following query on his behalf: > > >I am looking for references to studies on concrete > >pedagogical situations in Buddhist history, e.g. > >studies on how a monk or nun was trained, how > >scriptures were used, what scriptures were used > >(shaastra/aagama/...), different functions in the > >monastery, or similar questions. Any reference would > >be helpful. The more concrete the better (but that is > >perhaps too much to hope for when it comes to > >Indian history ;-) > > Many vicarious thanks in advance, > Martin Gansten > From Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE Fri Feb 27 12:15:07 2004 From: Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 04 13:15:07 +0100 Subject: Buddhist pedagogical history Message-ID: <161227073965.23782.7483893794201231116.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A friend who is not a member of this list has asked me to post the following query on his behalf: >I am looking for references to studies on concrete >pedagogical situations in Buddhist history, e.g. >studies on how a monk or nun was trained, how >scriptures were used, what scriptures were used >(shaastra/aagama/...), different functions in the >monastery, or similar questions. Any reference would >be helpful. The more concrete the better (but that is >perhaps too much to hope for when it comes to >Indian history ;-) Many vicarious thanks in advance, Martin Gansten From Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE Fri Feb 27 12:19:38 2004 From: Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 04 13:19:38 +0100 Subject: Conference announcement Message-ID: <161227073967.23782.16741738814772056458.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The following is posted on behalf of a colleague not on this list. Please direct any inquiries to . For full details, see: http://www.teol.lu.se/chakra/conference04/index.html Martin Gansten * * * * * * * * * * Ritual practices in Indian religions and contexts December 9 - 11, 2004 History and Anthropology of Religion, Lund University Welcome to a Nordic conference which explores ritual practices in Indian religions and contexts. The conference is arranged by the seminars of Indian Religions and Ritual Studies at the Department of History and Anthropology of Religion, Lund University, in cooperation with the academic journal Chakra - Tidskrift f?r indiska religioner. We invite scholars and Ph D students who are engaged in research concerning Indian religions and rituals to take part in the conference. Presented papers will be considered for publication in the journal Chakra. The conference will take place in the medieval city of Lund, in southern Sweden, December 9-11, 2004. Conference outline The conference aims at initiating an interdisciplinary conversation on various aspects of Indian religions and ritual practices. Indian religions are mostly associated with the major world religions originating from India - Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and Sikhism. The conference also aims to include religions practiced in India today and Indian religions in other contexts, such as diaspora communities outside Asia. The conference wants to emphasize different perspectives of ritual practices in various research studies of Indian religions, and encourage new theoretical and methodological approaches in the field. Therefore, we are now inviting scholars and Ph D students from various disciplines to contribute to a new dialogue concerning Indian religions and rituals. The conference will include keynote speakers and five panels, where scholars and Ph.D. students will present papers covering the following themes: 1. Ritual Theories and Methods 2. Rituals and History 3. Rituals and Modernity 4. Rituals and Texts 5. Rituals and Daily life Participants presenting papers should plan to give a short introduction of maximum 15 minutes each, followed by panel discussions. A chairperson will supervise each panel discussion. In order to create constructive scholarly discussions, registered participants will receive all papers in advance. To reach out to a broader audience, the conference proceedings will be in English. From Asko.Parpola at HELSINKI.FI Fri Feb 27 18:29:06 2004 From: Asko.Parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 04 20:29:06 +0200 Subject: Vacancy - Professor of South Asian and IE Studies in Helsinki Message-ID: <161227073973.23782.3527299482312774699.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A professorship in South Asian and Indo-European Studies at the University of Helsinki, Finland, is open for international application until 31 March 2004. For the requirements and other details see the official advertisement below. A more detailed document on the procedures of how the post is filled can be see on the web page of the Faculty of Humanities at the address http://www.helsinki.fi/hum/tdk/vacancies.html. The professorship is for a period of five years from the date of appointment. Anticipating the question, "What happens after those five years?", I give the following background information. "Sanskrit and Comparative Indo-European Linguistics" has been taught at the University of Helsinki since 1875 by Personal Extraordinary Professors. The university had 30 such chairs that became vacant for any subject in any faculty of Helsinki University when the occupant retired or died -- every faculty in competition with each other proposed a candidate to be invited to a professorship tailored to the candidate. In the 1980s, the university decided to limit the occupation of these rotating chairs to a period of five years, so that the university could better take care of the acute needs of various fields, with the proviso that such a professorship could not stay longer in any one field. For some small fields which only have had personal chairs this new arrangement poses a big problem of continuity. Recognizing this, the university has adopted a new arragement, which stipulates that if the rotating five-year professorship is allotted to a field (as has now happened in the case of "South Asian and Indo-European Studies") instead of a definite person (who is to be invited), the vacancy is filled by open competition -- in this case international competition -- and the university (in this case more exactly the Institute for Asian and African Studies and the Faculty of Humanities) can decide to make the professorship an ordinary one after these five years are over. However, no official decision about the continuation of the chair has been made -- at present we have only got oral expressions of good intentions. Asko Parpola Personal Extraordinary Professor of Indology, University of Helsinki (retiring on the 1st of December 2004) --------------------------------- Professorship in South Asian and Indo-European Studies The University of Helsinki, Finland, invites applications for the Professorship in South Asian and Indo-European Studies. The post will be filled for a fixed term of five years, beginning on the date of appointment. The relevant field of teaching has been specified as the most important modern and classical languages of South Asia (especially the Indian subcontinent) and the region?s religions, literature and other expressions of culture. Because of the appointee?s duty to grade students in Indo-European studies, applicants are expected to have completed adequate linguistic training. Practical familiarity with the field of the post (especially a knowledge of modern languages and experience of fieldwork in the region) will be considered as a major asset. The post will be placed in the Institute for Asian and African Studies, Faculty of Arts. In addition to the present post, the discipline has a lectureship in Indian languages, and the Institute for African and Asian Studies has professorships in African studies, Arabic and Islamic studies, East Asian studies, Japanese language and culture and Semitic languages, and a professorship extraordinary in Assyriology. The official languages of instruction at the University of Helsinki are Finnish and Swedish. A foreign citizen may be appointed without having proved his or her competence in the Finnish or Swedish languages. However, mastery of English-language skills is required, and knowledge of Finnish and Swedish will be considered as assets. The monthly salary will range between 3564 ? 5537 euro depending on the previous experience. The application should contain: 1) A curriculum vitae in English; 2) A short written report on the merits the candidate considers relevant in the assessment of teaching skills; 3) A report (max. two pages), in English, of the applicant?s research activities and plans to provide for future developments in the field; 4) A numbered list of those publications or other works with which the applicant wishes to demonstrate his or her competence and merits; 5) One copy each of a maximum of 10 publications or other works numbered as in the above list; 6) A report of language skills. Written applications, together with the required enclosures should be addressed to the Faculty of Arts, University of Helsinki, and sent to the Registrar of the University of Helsinki, PO Box 33, FIN-00014 University of Helsinki. The closing date for the application is March 31, 2004 by 3.45 p.m. Instructions for appointments of the professorship in question can be obtained on request from the Faculty Office, Ms Leena Barros, email leena.barros at helsinki.fi or from the www-adress http://www.helsinki.fi/hum/tdk/vacancies.html Informal enquires may be made to Mr Harry Hal?n, email harry.halen at helsinki.fi or Professor Asko Parpola email asko.parpola at helsinki.fi. From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Sun Feb 29 01:18:33 2004 From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 04 17:18:33 -0800 Subject: Email for Jaan Puhvel In-Reply-To: <000501c3fe5b$a0f118e0$210110ac@Lifebook> Message-ID: <161227073978.23782.6228612694015813646.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > Does anyone have the email for Jaan Puhvel? jpuhvel at ucla.edu -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG Sun Feb 29 00:33:17 2004 From: dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG (Dean Anderson) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 04 18:33:17 -0600 Subject: Email for Jaan Puhvel Message-ID: <161227073975.23782.8098931978108636562.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone have the email for Jaan Puhvel? Thanks, Dean Anderson