SV: (second attempt) CDIAL 3331

Lars Martin Fosse lmfosse at ONLINE.NO
Thu Sep 11 11:16:15 UTC 2003

Hello Arlo,

Ruth Schmidt asked me to pass on the following comments on your


I never collected this lexical item, nor did Fussman.

If Phalura does not show the -ka-suffix, I would be surprised to find 
it in any of the accessible modern languages, since Phalura is by far 
the most archaic of the dialects (originating in Chilas, in the 
ancient center of the Shina-speaking zone). This is also the picture 
one gets from a glance at CDIAL. All the reflexes show the pattern 
kúl, kúlu [-u ~ -o is the suffix for a marked masculine noun], and 
that is what is borrowed into Burushaski. The dialects shown, though 
few, also span the range of Shina from west to east and south to 
north, with the exception of Brokskat. If the word is the same in 
Phalura, Gilgiti, Kohistani and Guresi, it will probably not differ 
in Chilasi, Astori or Drasi.

I have not found the -ka-suffix as such surviving in modern Shina, 
though Turner often needs it to show why the Shina reflex survives as 
a closed syllable, instead of being further reduced.





Lars Martin

From: Lars Martin Fosse
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> -----Opprinnelig melding-----
> Fra: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at] På vegne av 
> Arlo Griffiths
> Sendt: 11. september 2003 11:29
> Til: INDOLOGY at
> Emne: (second attempt) CDIAL 3331
> [this message was posted yesterday, but seems not to have 
> been delivered]
> Can anyone with a better understanding of the historical 
> phonology of Dardic languages inform me whether any of the 
> lexical items from modern languages listed by Turner under 
> 3331 kulaka- 'stone of a fruit' (attested as far as I know 
> only Carakasa.mhitaa 6.1 [thus pw]) actually shows a trace of 
> the -ka-suffix of their supposed OIA source?
> Two passages from the Paippalaada Sa.mhitaa rather clearly 
> attest kula- 'stone of a fruit, pit', without the -ka-suffix, 
> and I am tempted to see here another example of an isogloss 
> between Vedic and Dardic (see G. Buddruss, "Der Veda und 
> Kaschmir", KZ/ZVS 77, 235--245, esp. 241--244).
> PS 7.19.3
> yayaahus +t.r.s.ta.m ka.tukam apaguu.dha.m phale kulam |
> tasyai hira.nyake;s{i}yai nama.h k.r.nmo araataye ||
> She by whom, they say, a harsh, sharp pit is hidden away in 
> [its] fruit, to her, the golden haired Araati, do we bring homage.
> PS 9.11.7
> gandharvas te muulam +aasiic chaakhaa apsarasas tava | 
> mariiciir aasan par.naani siniivaalii kula.m tava ||
> The Gandharva was your root, the Apsarases your branches, the 
> particles of light were [your] leaves, Siniivaalii your pit.
> Perhaps Paa.nini 5.4.62 ni.skul;aa kar points to the same 
> meaning, although the example object of this verbal 
> construction, daa.dima- `pomegranate', quoted in Böhtlingk's 
> ed. seems not to be old. See also EWAia I, 373.
> Arlo Griffiths
> [apologies for cross-postings]

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