From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Tue Dec 3 08:32:00 2002 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 02 08:32:00 +0000 Subject: Publication announcement Message-ID: <161227071792.23782.17524925995116821183.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The third volume in the series "Geisteskultur Indiens" has just been released: Peter Stephan, Erloesung im Spannungsfeld von aktivem Leben und Entsagung. Eine Studie zu Sankaras Exegese der Bhagavadgita. [Geisteskultur Indiens. Texte und Studien. 3. (Indologica Halensis)] Aachen 2002. 172 S. ISBN 3-8322-0884-4. Euro 30,80 For online orders or for free review copies please contact Shaker Publishers: www.shaker-online.com/Online-Gesamtkatalog/ This study (in the German language) concentrates on a peculiar dilemma, namely the conflict between observing (e.g. violent) duties prescribed for an active life on the one hand, and, on the other, escaping the danger of negative soteriological consequences caused by them. Sankara develops a solution to this svadharma/moksa conflict in his exegesis (Bhasya) of the Bhagavadgita. His peculiar solution and the exegetical strategies through which he achieved his aim will be found elaborated in the present study. All passages from Sankara?s Bhagavadgita-Bhasya which are relevant for the subject are topically analysed in this study to which romanised texts and translations are appended in full on facing pages. Kind regards, Walter Slaje -------------------------- Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1, D-99425 Weimar (Germany) (Home) Tel./Fax: (+49)-3643-501391 (Office) Tel.: (+49)-345-55-23650, Fax: -27139 www.indologie.uni-halle.de From drdj at UMICH.EDU Tue Dec 3 18:22:08 2002 From: drdj at UMICH.EDU (Donald R. Davis, Jr.) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 02 13:22:08 -0500 Subject: Trivarga/Caturvarga Message-ID: <161227071794.23782.6775857472452485525.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In preparing a survey paper on the purusarthas, I have come across two sticking points which I hope list members can clarify for me. 1) I am looking to identify the earliest references to caturvarga in the sense of the four classic purusarthas (viz, dharma, artha, kama, moksa). I have references to caturvarga from the later parts of the Mahabharata, at least one reference in the Raghuvamsa, and all over the puranas. Before this, trivarga is the norm, e.g. Manu, Kautilya, etc. Does anyone know of earlier references to caturvarga? 2) Does the medieval (or early) philosophical literature make much of the purusarthas as a collectivity? Mimamsa and Vedanta, as far as I can tell, do not. Are there substantive discussions of the purusarthas as a group in other darsanas? Any help would be most appreciated. Best, Don Davis Dept of Asian Languages & Cultures University of Michigan From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Wed Dec 4 12:56:19 2002 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 02 06:56:19 -0600 Subject: Additional formats for e-texts in GRETIL In-Reply-To: <3DEDED42.17975.9232B2@localhost> Message-ID: <161227071800.23782.6410927443180751972.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Reinhold: I must be doing something wrong, but access to the site with ATIL was denied to me. When I did try to download the MBh it wanted me to download also the font which appeared as HELVSN---1.TTF; but on my Word it did not show up as a font even after restarting the computer. I am on a MAC with OS 9.2. Thanks. Patrick Olivelle >Dear list members, >the new "GRETIL experimental site" > >http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gret_exp.htm > >is intended to give an impression of the additional formats >announces last week. There has been a change of course with >regard to the "ASCII-only" format: Instead of "Kyoto-Harvard" it will >be a new transliteration called ATIL (ASCII Transliteration for >Indian Languages) - sincere appologies for burdening the world with >another acronym! > >For details see: >http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/ >fiindolo/gretil/gretdiac.pdf > >and ... gretdias.pdf > >ATIL encompasses the entire range of CSX+ (Classical Sanskrit >Extended+) characters, which covers everything indologists may >need for the practical purpose of entering and handling e-texts in >Indian languages, and a lot more besides. It should be gratefully >remembered that the indological community owes the bulk of >e-texts to our Japanese colleagues, who achieved this feat with far >less than what CSX+ offers. On the other hand, the world is still >waiting for contributions of similar import from those who >sometimes seem all too willing to follow the path of compliance all >the way down to Redmond. > >Since it will take at least another two weeks to convert the entire >GRETIL archive, there is enough time to take into account your >comments! > >Best regards > >Reinhold Gr?nendahl > > >******************************************************************** > >Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl >Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek >Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien >(Dept. of Indology) > >37070 G?ttingen, Germany >Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 >Fax (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 23 61 >gruenen at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de > >FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: >http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm >In English: >http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm > >GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian >Languages >http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Wed Dec 4 06:09:13 2002 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 02 07:09:13 +0100 Subject: Trivarga/Caturvarga Message-ID: <161227071796.23782.8617361843353546790.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There is a work, Purusharthasudhanidhih, attributed to Sayana, edited by T. Chandraskharan, and published in Madras, 1955 (Madras Government Oriental Manuscripts Series, 39). It is a collection of passages referring to the four purusarthas. As far as I can see all of the passages come from the Mbh, Puranas, and later smrtis. If you have not already done so, you might take a look at this work. Good luck, K. Zysk ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald R. Davis, Jr. To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Trivarga/Caturvarga In preparing a survey paper on the purusarthas, I have come across two sticking points which I hope list members can clarify for me. 1) I am looking to identify the earliest references to caturvarga in the sense of the four classic purusarthas (viz, dharma, artha, kama, moksa). I have references to caturvarga from the later parts of the Mahabharata, at least one reference in the Raghuvamsa, and all over the puranas. Before this, trivarga is the norm, e.g. Manu, Kautilya, etc. Does anyone know of earlier references to caturvarga? 2) Does the medieval (or early) philosophical literature make much of the purusarthas as a collectivity? Mimamsa and Vedanta, as far as I can tell, do not. Are there substantive discussions of the purusarthas as a group in other darsanas? Any help would be most appreciated. Best, Don Davis Dept of Asian Languages & Cultures University of Michigan From cr_austin at SYMPATICO.CA Wed Dec 4 12:58:59 2002 From: cr_austin at SYMPATICO.CA (Chris Austin) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 02 07:58:59 -0500 Subject: Trivarga/Caturvarga Message-ID: <161227071802.23782.14258501217323442904.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> If I recall, the following book locates the primary textual sources of the (sometimes 3) 4 ends: Arvind Sharma - The Purusharthas: A Study in Hindu Axiology. Michigan State University. 1982. Chris Austin McMaster University Department of Religious Studies ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald R. Davis, Jr." To: Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 1:22 PM Subject: Trivarga/Caturvarga > In preparing a survey paper on the purusarthas, I have come across two > sticking points which I hope list members can clarify for me. > > 1) I am looking to identify the earliest references to caturvarga in the > sense of the four classic purusarthas (viz, dharma, artha, kama, moksa). I > have references to caturvarga from the later parts of the Mahabharata, at > least one reference in the Raghuvamsa, and all over the puranas. Before > this, trivarga is the norm, e.g. Manu, Kautilya, etc. Does anyone know of > earlier references to caturvarga? > > 2) Does the medieval (or early) philosophical literature make much of the > purusarthas as a collectivity? Mimamsa and Vedanta, as far as I can tell, > do not. Are there substantive discussions of the purusarthas as a group in > other darsanas? > > Any help would be most appreciated. > > Best, > > Don Davis > > Dept of Asian Languages & Cultures > University of Michigan From gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Wed Dec 4 11:55:46 2002 From: gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (gruenendahl) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 02 11:55:46 +0000 Subject: Additional formats for e-texts in GRETIL In-Reply-To: <002d01c29b5e$76428fe0$49c8e182@zysk> Message-ID: <161227071798.23782.16397075285227431050.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear list members, the new "GRETIL experimental site" http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gret_exp.htm is intended to give an impression of the additional formats announces last week. There has been a change of course with regard to the "ASCII-only" format: Instead of "Kyoto-Harvard" it will be a new transliteration called ATIL (ASCII Transliteration for Indian Languages) - sincere appologies for burdening the world with another acronym! For details see: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/ fiindolo/gretil/gretdiac.pdf and ... gretdias.pdf ATIL encompasses the entire range of CSX+ (Classical Sanskrit Extended+) characters, which covers everything indologists may need for the practical purpose of entering and handling e-texts in Indian languages, and a lot more besides. It should be gratefully remembered that the indological community owes the bulk of e-texts to our Japanese colleagues, who achieved this feat with far less than what CSX+ offers. On the other hand, the world is still waiting for contributions of similar import from those who sometimes seem all too willing to follow the path of compliance all the way down to Redmond. Since it will take at least another two weeks to convert the entire GRETIL archive, there is enough time to take into account your comments! Best regards Reinhold Gr?nendahl ******************************************************************** Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 G?ttingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 Fax (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 23 61 gruenen at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Wed Dec 4 15:18:37 2002 From: gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (gruenendahl) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 02 15:18:37 +0000 Subject: Additional formats for e-texts in GRETIL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227071804.23782.9682387779172090846.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Patrick, this is the only explanation I have at the moment: > I must be doing something wrong, but access to the site with ATIL was > denied to me. I may have caused this problem by updating the ATIL files several times from morning to noon. In the process the files are temporarily unavailable > When I did try to download the MBh it wanted me to > download also the font which appeared as HELVSN---1.TTF; but on my > Word it did not show up as a font even after restarting the computer. > I am on a MAC with OS 9.2. Thanks. The "Mahabharata online" opened with a reminder to 1) configure your browser to UTF-8 2) to make sure that you have a UTF-8 font installed on your computer. You could then " ... proceed to Mahabharata online" (lower left corner). I have now removed this reminder. So you can now directly enter theMahabharata online. Please let me know in case the problem persists. Best regards Reinhold Gr?nendahl ******************************************************************** Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 G?ttingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 Fax (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 23 61 gruenen at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG Thu Dec 5 01:32:49 2002 From: dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG (dean_anderson at SACARI.ORG) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 02 20:32:49 -0500 Subject: Additional formats for e-texts in GRETIL Message-ID: <161227071806.23782.3005418026421298930.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> 2) to make sure that you have a UTF-8 font installed on your computer. Where can I get the fonts for PC? Dean Anderson From ghart at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU Thu Dec 5 15:30:23 2002 From: ghart at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 02 07:30:23 -0800 Subject: Trivarga/Caturvarga In-Reply-To: <000e01c29b94$f396b300$526ce2d1@cyberus.ca> Message-ID: <161227071808.23782.9757523445990057042.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The exact meaning of the three original purusartha's is vexing -- and would make a fascinating subject of study. I do hope that any work on this subject will not be confined to a mechanical list of what appears where -- that would be of limited value. Certainly the connotations of dharma, artha, and kama change significantly over place and time and are endlessly complex. Perhaps the most detailed exposition of these anywhere is the Tirukkural (4th century CE?), which is organized according to these subjects. The commentary of Parimelazakar is equally enlightening. The Tamil words are aRam, poruL, and kaama (or inpam). Certainly a study of the purusarthas would sadly incomplete if completely ignored the large literature on the subject in Tamil. G. Hart From asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Dec 5 16:04:01 2002 From: asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Andrew Glass) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 02 08:04:01 -0800 Subject: Additional formats for e-texts in GRETIL Message-ID: <161227071810.23782.1052282000839059418.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dean I know of three UTF-8 fonts you can use: 1. The Early Buddhist Manuscripts Project's Gandhari Unicode font. This font is based on the original URW+ Postscript fonts donated to the free software community, has been extended to display the special diacritics necessary for Gandhari and comes with Roman, Italic, Bold, and Bold Italic styles. It contains more than 700 glyphs including all diacritics used for Indological transliteration and European languages as well as modern Greek, IPA and a complete set of Indologically relevant Unicode combining diacritics. An input method for Microsoft Word is provided, as well as a system-wide Windows input method so that users can type Unicode characters directly into email, databases, spread sheets, etc. This latter input method will work with any of the unicode fonts listed in this email. Gandhari Unicode is free and open source software: it is licensed under the GNU General Public License (http://depts.washington.edu/ebmp/software.html) 2. URW+ Palladio UNI. This 16-bit Unicode TrueType font includes all diacritics defined by ISO 15919 (Transliteration of Indic Scripts covering all ancient and modern languages of India). It also includes all diacritics for Western, Central, and Eastern European languages so that this font can be used by Indologist using pretty much any European language. (http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich.stiehl/polfonts.htm#UNI) 3. Titus Cyberbit Basic. This font includes, among other characters, a (nearly) complete set of Korean, Japanese, and Chinese characters. Bold and Italic variants of this font are not yet available. The font has a size of about 13 MB. N.B.: The font does not provide full coverage of Latin diacritics, Ancient Greek, Armenian, Georgian and the like. (http://titus.uni-frankfurt.de/indexe.htm?/unicode/unitest2.htm) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 5:32 PM Subject: Re: Additional formats for e-texts in GRETIL > 2) to make sure that you have a UTF-8 font installed on your > computer. > > Where can I get the fonts for PC? > > Dean Anderson > From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Fri Dec 6 15:38:04 2002 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 02 15:38:04 +0000 Subject: useful list of Oriental Institutes and libraries in India Message-ID: <161227071812.23782.2828699853722820544.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I've just come across the following document, which is very useful: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/Resources/India_uni_list.html DW From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Fri Dec 6 18:04:15 2002 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 02 18:04:15 +0000 Subject: Critical editions on the web Message-ID: <161227071814.23782.2473646136245815364.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> My colleague Gerhard Brey has brought these important resources to my attention. I thought they might interest us INDOLOGISTS. DW ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 03 Dec 2002 18:06:31 +0000 From: Gerhard Brey To: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: Re: Texteditor Dear Dominik, The discussion about a text editor for critical editions on the MEDIAEVISTIK group is still going on. I thought you might be interested in to projects somebody mentioned, you probably know about them already. Anastasia, by Peter Robinson (a Windows program to process XML files, quite expensive at $5000 - 10000) http://www.sd-editions.com/anastasia/index.html Quentin (XML/XSLT based, with Cocoon), this one looks really impressive, there are two examples on the website, but no mention if the code is available, and if it is free or not http://www.talonline.ca:8080/quentin/index.html Best wishes, Gerhard From indologia at LATINMAIL.COM Fri Dec 6 23:50:29 2002 From: indologia at LATINMAIL.COM (humanidades India) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 02 18:50:29 -0500 Subject: search Message-ID: <161227071816.23782.4591692061844165932.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Pranam!! I am in the search of the Garundas and Maulas clans?? Some of your have historical informatiom about this people???? Atty. Horacio F. Arganis U A de C www.uadec.mx _________________________________________________________ http://www.latinmail.com. Gratuito, latino y en espa?ol. From JFStaal at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU Sat Dec 7 19:08:55 2002 From: JFStaal at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (Frits Staal) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 02 11:08:55 -0800 Subject: Weights and Measures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227071822.23782.14730641794324953335.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi Patrick, I believe you might find something in the following but I don't have it here so have not been able to check: D. Chattopadhyaya, History of Science and Technology in Ancient India: The Beginnings, Calcutta: Forma KLM, 1986. ("KLM" might be correct or my typo for the Dutch airline). And then there are more ancient and never seen by me: L.D. Barnett, Antiquities of India, London 1913 A. Bose, Social and Rural Economy of Northern India, Vols.I-II, Calcutta 1942-45. If all fails you obviously have to go to Calcutta whence all these tomes emerge. Greetings At 12:24 PM 12/7/02 -0600, you wrote: >Dear List Members: > >Can anyone direct me to a good secondary source that deals with >ancient Indian weights and measures (and also perhaps coins)? Thanks. > >Patrick Frits Staal http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal/ From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sat Dec 7 18:24:18 2002 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 02 12:24:18 -0600 Subject: Weights and Measures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227071819.23782.3355869700999458501.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List Members: Can anyone direct me to a good secondary source that deals with ancient Indian weights and measures (and also perhaps coins)? Thanks. Patrick From hwtull at MSN.COM Sat Dec 7 23:00:40 2002 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 02 18:00:40 -0500 Subject: Weights and Measures Message-ID: <161227071830.23782.12669342328730849214.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There is, of course, the old chestnut, Basham's "Wonder That Was India"; appendices VIII and IX are on "Weights and Measures" and "Coinage," respectively. He cites several other secondary sources in his bibliography. Herman Tull ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Olivelle" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 1:24 PM Subject: Weights and Measures > Dear List Members: > > Can anyone direct me to a good secondary source that deals with > ancient Indian weights and measures (and also perhaps coins)? Thanks. > > Patrick > From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Sat Dec 7 23:08:17 2002 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 02 23:08:17 +0000 Subject: ConTeXt support for UTF-8 Roman Translit and Nagari In-Reply-To: <20021207225840.GG220@ext.canterbury.ac.nz> Message-ID: <161227071828.23782.15948540443928072269.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I met Hans Hagen at the recent TeX conference in Trivandrum, and he mentioned among other things that he was planning to put support into ConTeXt for critical edition formatting. Could be very valuable, especially with all the other features ConTeXt has. I've never used it myself, though. Best, Dominik From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.FREESERVE.CO.UK Sun Dec 8 00:26:16 2002 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Stephen Hodge) Date: Sun, 08 Dec 02 00:26:16 +0000 Subject: Weights and Measures Message-ID: <161227071832.23782.17998249256154819198.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Patrick Olivelle wrote: > Can anyone direct me to a good secondary source that deals with > ancient Indian weights and measures (and also perhaps coins)? Thanks. There is detailed information in the appendices at the back of L. Rangarajam's translation of Kautilya's Arthashastra (Penguin Books India. 1992). Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Sun Dec 8 13:44:23 2002 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sun, 08 Dec 02 07:44:23 -0600 Subject: Weights and Measures In-Reply-To: <002701c29eb5$79e5aec0$fe78a8c0@db12g50j> Message-ID: <161227071840.23782.2626510573317084172.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks to all who generously sent bibliographic suggestions. They are really helpful.What did we do in the days before the internet?? Patrick From rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ Sat Dec 7 22:58:40 2002 From: rbm49 at EXT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ (Richard Mahoney) Date: Sun, 08 Dec 02 11:58:40 +1300 Subject: ConTeXt support for UTF-8 Roman Translit and Nagari Message-ID: <161227071825.23782.736950815754048077.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear All, I am not sure how many subscribers to INDOLOGY use ConTeXt, although it seems that a number use TeX and LaTeX. It seems to me that ConTeXt may be useful, especially if it can be successfully configured to support UTF-8 encodings for Skt. in Roman translit. and Nagari. Over the past two weeks progress has been made in this direction. These developments can be followed through the ConTeXt mailing list: http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context/index.html Of note is a recent posting from Hans Hagen: http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2002/000544.html Regards, Richard Mahoney -- Richard Mahoney | E-mail: rbm49 at ext.canterbury.ac.nz 78 Jeffreys Road | r.mahoney at comnet.net.nz Fendalton | Telephone: 0064-3-351-5831 CHRISTCHURCH 8005 | Cellular: 0064-25-829-986 NEW ZEALAND | http://homepages.comnet.co.nz/~r-mahoney From Axel.Michaels at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Sun Dec 8 12:29:33 2002 From: Axel.Michaels at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Axel Michaels) Date: Sun, 08 Dec 02 13:29:33 +0100 Subject: Weights and Measures Message-ID: <161227071837.23782.195776400081718062.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Patrick, in addition to the hints already given by others you might find further information on measurements in: D.M. Bose et al. A Concise Hostory of Science in India, New Delhi 1971; O.P. Jaggi, History of Science and Technology, New Dlehi 1969ff.; G. Pillai, The Way of the Silpis, Allahabad 1948; and, of course, G. Thibaut, Astronomie, Astrologie und Mathematik, Strassburg 1899. If you are interested in the standardisation of measurements you could also look in my dissertation ("Beweisverfahren in der vedischen Sakralgeometrie", Hamburg 1878, pp. 73-78, and pp. 156f. on angula.) which includes a meanwhile outdated but at that time rather conprehensive bibliography on the ancient vedic geometry, i.e. the Sulvasutras (pp. 201-108). Best wishes Axel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Olivelle" To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 7:24 PM Subject: Weights and Measures > Dear List Members: > > Can anyone direct me to a good secondary source that deals with > ancient Indian weights and measures (and also perhaps coins)? Thanks. > > Patrick > > From mtokunag at BUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP Sun Dec 8 04:39:06 2002 From: mtokunag at BUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP (Muneo TOKUNAGA) Date: Sun, 08 Dec 02 13:39:06 +0900 Subject: Weights and Measures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227071834.23782.1740952427596842744.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> jpo> Can anyone direct me to a good secondary source that deals with jpo> ancient Indian weights and measures (and also perhaps coins)? Thanks. Prof. S.R. Sarma, Aligarh, is perhaps the best person to ask about these matters. His email address is: srsarma at sancharnet.in. Tokunaga From harunaga at SAS.UPENN.EDU Mon Dec 9 18:55:32 2002 From: harunaga at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Harunaga Isaacson) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 02 13:55:32 -0500 Subject: Fwd: OpenType Version of URW Palladio UNI for ISO 15919 (fwd) Message-ID: <161227071842.23782.8125985618293569094.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have been asked to forward this message to the list. Harunaga Isaacson ================================ OpenType Version of URW Palladio UNI for ISO 15919 An OpenType version of URW Palladio UNI can be designed, provided that at least 20 indologists are interested in it. Technical specifications of this OpenType version are described in the document http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich.stiehl/opentype.pdf Ulrich.Stiehl at t-online.de ----- End forwarded message ----- From reimann at UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU Tue Dec 10 01:38:40 2002 From: reimann at UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 02 17:38:40 -0800 Subject: Weights and Measures In-Reply-To: <002701c29eb5$79e5aec0$fe78a8c0@db12g50j> Message-ID: <161227071844.23782.8457901284198750286.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 01:29 PM 12/08/2002 +0100, Axel Michaels wrote: >... you could also look in my dissertation...Hamburg 1878... Axel, It's good to see there is a cirajIvin on INDOLOGY! Regards, Luis From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Dec 10 14:36:31 2002 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 02 09:36:31 -0500 Subject: Sir Wm. Jone at the Library of Congress Message-ID: <161227071846.23782.7239369835492484509.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A pleasant curiosity I just discovered is that the mosaic "Law" in the Congressional Members Room of the Library of Congress is inspired by Sir William Jones's poem "An Ode in Imitation of Alcaeus." See http://www.loc.gov/law/public/asl/htdoc/index.html for the mosaic, the ode, and background information. A further Indian connection is that the republican sentiments of the poem delayed his appointment to the Supreme Court of Bengal. Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Southern Asia Section Asian Division Library of Congress Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From clough at BARD.EDU Wed Dec 11 15:23:17 2002 From: clough at BARD.EDU (Bradley Clough) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 02 10:23:17 -0500 Subject: Tirtha Patas In-Reply-To: <3DF73137.DBD7C601@urz.uni-heidelberg.de> Message-ID: <161227071853.23782.7924039094931023754.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Joerg and All: I would recommend contacting Professor Rana P.B. Singh of Banaras Hindu University. To my mind he is the leading scholar on pilgrimages in Banaras and things related to them. His e-mail is ranapbs at satyam,net.in By way of introduction, feel free to mention my name and say that I recommended him to you. Best of luck with your research. Best Wishes, Brad Clough clough at bard.edu On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 07:36 AM, Joerg Gengnagel wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > working on historical pilgrim maps of Banaras I have studied two rare > pictorial > maps of the 18th and early 19th century. > I have found a few references to Tirtha Patas as "sacred hangings" > painted on > cloth in order to have darshana of tirthas for those who are unable to > travel. > These references are all found in the context of Jaina ritual. I would > be > greatful for any further information about the practice of producing > Tirtha > Patas in the context of tirthayatra. > > Best, > > Joerg Gengnagel > South Asia Institute, Heidelberg From joerg.gengnagel at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Wed Dec 11 12:36:07 2002 From: joerg.gengnagel at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Joerg Gengnagel) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 02 13:36:07 +0100 Subject: Tirtha Patas Message-ID: <161227071848.23782.1945121643876195651.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, working on historical pilgrim maps of Banaras I have studied two rare pictorial maps of the 18th and early 19th century. I have found a few references to Tirtha Patas as "sacred hangings" painted on cloth in order to have darshana of tirthas for those who are unable to travel. These references are all found in the context of Jaina ritual. I would be greatful for any further information about the practice of producing Tirtha Patas in the context of tirthayatra. Best, Joerg Gengnagel South Asia Institute, Heidelberg From drm8 at COLUMBIA.EDU Wed Dec 11 20:10:47 2002 From: drm8 at COLUMBIA.EDU (David Rustin Mellins) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 02 15:10:47 -0500 Subject: Agastya's Birth in a Pot In-Reply-To: <002701c29eb5$79e5aec0$fe78a8c0@db12g50j> Message-ID: <161227071858.23782.7483440192975237129.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List Members, Can anyone direct me to Puranic or epic sources regarding Agastya being born in a pot. Thanks much David Mellins From drm8 at COLUMBIA.EDU Wed Dec 11 20:11:28 2002 From: drm8 at COLUMBIA.EDU (David Rustin Mellins) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 02 15:11:28 -0500 Subject: Agastya's Birth in a Pot In-Reply-To: <002701c29eb5$79e5aec0$fe78a8c0@db12g50j> Message-ID: <161227071860.23782.11386104658076837489.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List Members, Can anyone direct me to Puranic or epic sources regarding Agastya being born in a pot. Thanks much. David Mellins From Joerg.Gengnagel at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Wed Dec 11 16:48:38 2002 From: Joerg.Gengnagel at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Joerg Gengnagel) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 02 17:48:38 +0100 Subject: Tirtha Patas In-Reply-To: <7929FE3F-0D1C-11D7-A523-000393155E46@bard.edu> Message-ID: <161227071856.23782.12485221342036163677.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Brad, you are absolutely right and we do therefore carry out our research in close cooperation with Rana P.B. Singh, in Heidelberg as well as in Banaras. Best Joerg From gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Dec 12 09:04:13 2002 From: gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (gruenendahl) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 02 09:04:13 +0000 Subject: Agastya's Birth in a Pot In-Reply-To: <1039637488.3df79bf026af6@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <161227071865.23782.11958228253148709809.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > Can anyone direct me to Puranic or epic sources regarding Agastya > being born in a pot. Thanks much. For a start you may follow the references to Agastya given in: Epic and Puranic bibliography : (up to 1985) ; annotated and with indexes / comp. under the chairmanship of Heinrich von Stietencron by P. Flamm ... Wiesbaden : Harassowitz, 1992 (Pur?.na research publications T?bingen ; 3,...) As for the Mahabharata, Agastya is called "kumbhayoni" several times, but I'm not aware that the story of his birth is actually told in the epic. Needless to say, references to Agastya are listed in S?rensen's Index. As for "kumbhayoni-", you may check the Index of the "Mahabharata online": http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil/ 1_sanskr/2_epic/mbh/sas/mahabharata.htm (without the line break!) Furthermore: Ramachandra Dikshitar, V.R.: The Purana index . Madras : Madras University 1951-1955 (Madras University Historical series ; 49). Reprint: Delhi [u.a.] : Motilal Banarsidass, 1995 Mani, Vettam: Puranic encyclopaedia : a comprehensive dictionary with special reference Delhi u.a. : Motilal Banarsidass, 1989 (text references usually of rather poor quality) Dange, Sadashiv Ambadas: Encyclopaedia of puranic beliefs and practices. New Delhi : Navrang, 1986- Best regards Reinhold Gr?nendahl ******************************************************************** Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 G?ttingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 Fax (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 23 61 gruenen at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE Thu Dec 12 08:29:47 2002 From: vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 02 09:29:47 +0100 Subject: Agastya's Birth in a Pot In-Reply-To: <1039637488.3df79bf026af6@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <161227071868.23782.37054778466613011.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Beside the Rm passage (crit. ed. Bk 7 App. I n?8 = vulg. ed. 7, ch. 56-7), and the purANic ones (see Pargiter 1922, p. 214-5) there are also Vedic references to that tradition: RgV 7, 33, 11-3 BRhaddevatA 5, 149-54 (ed. Macdonell) SarvAnukramaNI ad RgV I, 166 See Geldner 1892, p. 138-43, and Sieg 1902, p. 105-6. >Dear List Members, > >Can anyone direct me to Puranic or epic sources regarding Agastya >being born in a pot. Thanks much. > > David Mellins Dr. Christophe Vielle Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud Institut orientaliste Place Blaise Pascal 1 B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve BELGIUM Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) E-mail: vielle at ori.ucl.ac.be From garzilli at SHORE.NET Thu Dec 12 11:04:33 2002 From: garzilli at SHORE.NET (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 02 12:04:33 +0100 Subject: Agastya's Birth in a Pot Message-ID: <161227071870.23782.8928932818815535687.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Actually RV VII.33.11 refers specifically to Vasistha's birth. On this stanza, you can read the paper by R. N. Dandekar (1974), "The Two Births of Vasi??ha. A Fresh Study of .gveda VII.33.9-14", in Antiquitates Indogermanicae: Studiesn zur Indogermanischen Altertumskunde und zur Sprach- und Kulturgeschichte der indogermanischen V?lker. Gedenkschrift f?r Hermann G?ntert zur 25. Wiederkehr seines Todestages am 23. April 1973, ed. by Manfred Mayrhofer et. al., Innsbruck: Institut f?r Sprachwissenschaft der Universit?t Innsbruck, pp. 223-231. D also talks about Agastya. You can also see my paper in print in *Pandanus 2002 (Charles University, Prague)*, "The Flowers of Rgveda Hymns: Lotus in V.78.7, X.184.2, X.107.10, VI.16.13, and VII.33.11, VI.61.2, VIII.1.33, X.142.8" where the stanza is analyzed and some more biblio given. Best, eg ************************* Dr. Enrica Garzilli University of Macerata Editor-in-Chief, IJTS & JSAWS http://www.asiatica.org ************************* >RgV 7, 33, 11-3 >BRhaddevatA 5, 149-54 (ed. Macdonell) >SarvAnukramaNI ad RgV I, 166 >See Geldner 1892, p. 138-43, and Sieg 1902, p. 105-6. From garzilli at SHORE.NET Thu Dec 12 12:22:20 2002 From: garzilli at SHORE.NET (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 02 13:22:20 +0100 Subject: Agastya's Birth in a Pot Message-ID: <161227071877.23782.6305153362787566303.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Yes Mana= Agastya (as in the BD, Macdonell ed.), however, RV.33.11 names Vasistha *only*, no other possible interpretations. And I mentioned this only in my msg. Best, eg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Muneo TOKUNAGA" To: Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 1:02 PM Subject: Re: Re : Agastya's Birth in a Pot > garzilli> Actually RV VII.33.11 refers specifically to Vasistha's birth. > > One may also refer to st.13, in which Maana=Agastya is born > simultaneously (Geldner's note on 13c and his footnote, RV, Vol.I, > p.237, fn.1). Thus the story goes back to the RV. > > I coundn't find the actual episode of his birth from the pot (besides > the naming) in the main text of the MBh (Cr.Ed.). > > Tokunaga > > From mtokunag at BUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP Thu Dec 12 11:26:44 2002 From: mtokunag at BUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP (Muneo TOKUNAGA) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 02 20:26:44 +0900 Subject: Agastya's Birth in a Pot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227071872.23782.3716427896821101649.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> vielle> RgV 7, 33, 11-3 vielle> BRhaddevatA 5, 149-54 (ed. Macdonell) vielle> SarvAnukramaNI ad RgV I, 166 vielle> See Geldner 1892, p. 138-43, and Sieg 1902, p. 105-6. Cf. further SaDguruziSya's VedArthadIpikA on SA 1.166 and SkandasvAmin's commentary on RV i.117; also Nirukta v.13, SA on RV viii.67. For the detail, see my editorial notes on BD v.107, 108, 107-114(Story of the birth of VasiSTha and Agastya), and 151M-152cdM (Macdonell ed.) [pp.245--46 of The BRhaddevatA Reconstructed from the Shorter Recension, Kyoto 1998]. Yours, Tokunaga From mtokunag at BUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP Thu Dec 12 12:02:40 2002 From: mtokunag at BUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP (Muneo TOKUNAGA) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 02 21:02:40 +0900 Subject: Agastya's Birth in a Pot In-Reply-To: <002301c2a1ce$40815d70$100aa8c0@ludinho> Message-ID: <161227071875.23782.71683118079390979.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> garzilli> Actually RV VII.33.11 refers specifically to Vasistha's birth. One may also refer to st.13, in which Maana=Agastya is born simultaneously (Geldner's note on 13c and his footnote, RV, Vol.I, p.237, fn.1). Thus the story goes back to the RV. I coundn't find the actual episode of his birth from the pot (besides the naming) in the main text of the MBh (Cr.Ed.). Tokunaga From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Fri Dec 13 10:57:08 2002 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 02 10:57:08 +0000 Subject: Humanist message from the darkest day Message-ID: <161227071879.23782.2871679445233412356.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> When I founded the INDOLOGY list so many years ago (1990!), I was consciously imitating the HUMANIST discussion list of Willard McCarty, which I had followed for some years. HUMANIST still exists and is still going strong. It's a fine resource, civilized, urbane, witty, informative, and at least once a year, downright wise. Once a year, Willard (now at King's College London), writes a "state of the nation" message which is always worth reading. His message for this year arrived today, and can be read at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/Humanist/v16/0370.html Since the INDOLOGY list closed in April 2001 and re-opened under new management in July that same year, it has attracted 194 members, all of whom have kindly submitted a brief CV and been approved by the INDOLOGY Committee (indologycommittee at liverpool.ac.uk). The list as it exists now is very much the kind of forum I had intended to create in 1990, when my imagination envisaged a discussion amongst, perhaps 50 people. The discussion in recent months has included book announcements, grammatical, literary, and historical discussions, software and fonts for Indian languages, job and conference announcements, Buddhism as a Kenyan heresy (!), and even pointers to a campaign to release one of our Indological colleagues from inappropriate conditions of imprisonment in Israel (now accomplished). Perhaps best of all, for those who remember the days of 2001, the list now only offers a smallish number of postings, so none of us need feel overwhelmed by an unmanageable torrent of messages. As 2002 draws all too rapidly to its conclusion, I would like to share with you all my pleasure in how the list has now evolved, and to offer my gratitude to all of you as INDOLOGY members for your use of the list, which I do believe is once again an important academic benefit. And I would especially like publicly to offer my thanks to my colleagues on the INDOLOGY Committee, John Brockington, Jan Houben, Birgit Kellner, Harunaga Isaacson, Gary Tubb, Madhav Deshpande, and Christian Wedemeyer. The new success and smooth running of the forum is entirely due to their support, careful judgement, and hard work, and I cannot express strongly enough how grateful I am to them for their willingness to offer their time and energy to running the INDOLOGY list, and how impressed I have been by their professionalism. Although I am penning this note from some sort of privileged position as founder of INDOLOGY, today it really is the truth that the list is not "mine" in any real sense, and that it has grown up into a shared responsibility of a group of indologists. Thank you everyone, and all the best for the holidays. -- Dominik Wujastyk From drm8 at COLUMBIA.EDU Fri Dec 13 21:11:15 2002 From: drm8 at COLUMBIA.EDU (David Rustin Mellins) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 02 16:11:15 -0500 Subject: Agastya's Birth in a Pot In-Reply-To: <200212121159.UAA01399@sendmail.kuins.net> Message-ID: <161227071881.23782.157588596751145052.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks to Dr.'s Vielle, Garzilli and Tokunaga for such timely and precise suggestions. This is a welcome boon. Unlike the ocean, you have NOT forgotten the one who was born in a pot (see Candraloka 8.5). Gratefully, David Mellins From indologia at LATINMAIL.COM Tue Dec 17 03:00:40 2002 From: indologia at LATINMAIL.COM (humanidades India) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 02 22:00:40 -0500 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227071884.23782.16422861545825733000.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hai: What is the difference amongs the Bhodayana-dharma-sutra, the Bhodayana grhya-sutra and the Bhodayana sastra quoted by Jiva Goswami in his Sandharbhas??? The last question is, from where sruti book is the Narayana sukta himn?? Of yours Horacio Arganis ww.uadec.mx _________________________________________________________ http://www.latinmail.com. Gratuito, latino y en espa?ol. From reusch at UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU Tue Dec 17 18:18:51 2002 From: reusch at UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU (B. Reusch) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 02 10:18:51 -0800 Subject: Unicode fonts in Mac OS X In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227071886.23782.16915046154626614541.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:35:57 +0100 >From: Ulrich.Stiehl >..... > >Some are of the opinion that Unicode is a >way out of this encoding jungle, but a lot of diacritical letters required for >translitering Indic scripts have not been defined by the Unicode >consortium, so >that these additional diacritics must be defined by font makers in >the "Private >Use Area" (hexadecimal range E000-F8FF). Not being a computer-programming pro or a fonts pro, and speaking only for the Roman transliteration of (Vedic and Classical) Sanskrit, I beg to disagree. I have found all the needed characters in the Character Palette for Unicode fonts -- such as Lucida Grande, included in OS X. When "View All" is selected in Character Palette, macron vowels and accented s are found in Latin Extended A; characters with dot above or dot below are found in Latin Extended Additional; dots for all positions, all kinds of accents, and many other things are found in Combining Diacritical Marks. Now, how about typing all those nifty gadgets from your keyboard with merely two-to-ten fingers? After installing US Extended Keyboard from System Preferences, all Sanskrit diacritics can be easily produced with the sole exception of Combining Dot Below. Luckily, someone had thought about this before and done something about it. A non-South-Asia specialist offers his modified version of US Extended, which he named Latin Extended, to type dots or macrons below. It is downloadable from his site: http://quinon.com/files/keylayouts/LatinExtended_X.sit Finally, if, understandably, you do not like Lucida Grande too much, there is an (elegant) alternative: http://www.sil.org/~gaultney/gentium/download.html Gentium's only drawback, as far as I can see, is that it lacks bold. As a consolation, Gentium includes Candrabindu. Greetings, Beatrice Reusch From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Dec 17 22:57:14 2002 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 02 17:57:14 -0500 Subject: How notes were kept and books were made? Message-ID: <161227071889.23782.473069210159949358.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Has anyone done anything on how people composed books in pre-modern India, starting perhaps from how they kept notes (or whether)? Has anyone noted mss in the repositories that seemed to be of in-process books rather than completed ones? Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Southern Asia Section Asian Division Library of Congress Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM Wed Dec 18 16:15:29 2002 From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 02 08:15:29 -0800 Subject: How notes were kept and books were made? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227071898.23782.608005556770658511.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Some additional thoughts on this issue - In addition to Christan Lee Novetzke's reference one may mention the traditional notebooks or sketchbooks used by Nepalese artists at least until the last century (see 1989 thesis by Margriet Blom, Utrecht, entitles Depicted deities: painters' model books in Nepal). - In the case of early well-known literary, religious and scholarly texts they may have taken concrete form in an oral milieu before they were committed to writing (cf. Falk 1993 on Mahaabhaarata: only recent parts point to writing). Early collections of suutras can here be compared to the aphoristic sayings of pre-Socratics (Havelock pointed out that their aphoristic character probably points to the oral milieu in which they arose rather than being "fragments" from lost treatises). - In an article (http://dsal.uchicago.edu/sanskrit/papers/SaamkhyaRationality.pdf) I tried to show that Saa.mkhya first functioned in a predominantly oral milieu before it came to be represented by written texts. - In library catalogue sections on ;saastric disciplines we often find so-called "kro.dapatraa.ni" (additional or inserted leaves) which apparently contain remarks on a limited issue, as for instance some problematic grammatical suutra in the case of grammar. - A major question is whether traditional authors such as Pata?jali and Bhart.rhari in grammar (and authors in so many other fields) physically sat down to write or whether they dictated their work to a scribe. In the latter style of working we may expect much less written notes than a modern western author would make when composing works of similar extent. The traditional Indian way of working would then be more like that of a 19th century German Professor dictating his secretary. This style of working perhaps also shows in the preference, thoughout the Sanskrit tradition, for generalized references to standard doxographic positions rather than references to author date and place of publication. In the pre-printing era an author may also have circulated his work in different versions so that some of the variants of problematic words which modern editors try to eliminate may all go back to the author himself (or to the first scribe). We come quite close to a series of preliminary versions of a book expressing the final view of the author in the case of Naage;sa where the Laghuma?juu.saa and Paramalaghuma?juu.saa are not only briefer versions of the Ma?juu.saa but give also expression to developed and changed viewpoints. An author could also formulate some of his thoughts first in writing a commentary or subcommentary on an existing text before writing an independent work (in grammar: Bhart.rhari, first writing a .Tiikaa on the Mahaabhaa.sya, then his magnum opus Vaakyapadiiya which has the character of an independent work though it also comments on issues in the Mahaabhaa.sya). Best, Jan Houben --- Allen W Thrasher wrote: > Has anyone done anything on how people composed > books in pre-modern > India, starting perhaps from how they kept > notes (or whether)? Has > anyone noted mss in the repositories that > seemed to be of in-process > books rather than completed ones? > > Allen > > > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. > Senior Reference Librarian > Southern Asia Section > Asian Division > Library of Congress > Jefferson Building 150 > 101 Independence Ave., S.E. > Washington, DC 20540-4810 > tel. 202-707-3732 > fax 202-707-1724 > athr at loc.gov > The opinions expressed do not necessarily > reflect those of the Library > of Congress. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From cln at SAS.UPENN.EDU Wed Dec 18 04:41:25 2002 From: cln at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Christian Lee Novetzke) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 02 10:11:25 +0530 Subject: How notes were kept and books were made? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227071891.23782.3719773406422167005.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Allen, I have written on "premodern" manuscripts called bADas or notebooks (also vahI) in Marathi that were kept by kirtankars and that certainly resemble "notebooks" in that they contain notes on the performance of kirtan, as well as notes on astrology, rates of trade for certain items, prescriptions for home remedies, notes on births and deaths, etc. Most of the manuscripts are from the 17th-19th centuries. I can share this information with you off-list if you would like. Yours, Christian At 05:57 PM 12/17/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone done anything on how people composed books in pre-modern >India, starting perhaps from how they kept notes (or whether)? Has >anyone noted mss in the repositories that seemed to be of in-process >books rather than completed ones? > >Allen > > > >Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. >Senior Reference Librarian >Southern Asia Section >Asian Division >Library of Congress >Jefferson Building 150 >101 Independence Ave., S.E. >Washington, DC 20540-4810 >tel. 202-707-3732 >fax 202-707-1724 >athr at loc.gov >The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library >of Congress. Christian Lee Novetzke Assistant Professor of South Asia Studies University of Pennsylvania 820 Williams Hall 36th and Spruce Streets Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305, USA Website: http://sas.upenn.edu/~cln Email: cln at sas.upenn.edu Number in India: 9818048892 From p.friedlander at LATROBE.EDU.AU Wed Dec 18 05:08:00 2002 From: p.friedlander at LATROBE.EDU.AU (Peter Friedlander) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 02 16:08:00 +1100 Subject: How notes were kept and books were made? Message-ID: <161227071893.23782.14057407573638270987.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There was at least one manuscript of a Hindi work from the 19th century in the Wellcome Institute library which seemed to be a translation of a physics textbook into Hindi and which had blue pencil annotations on it. The best candidate I ever saw for a pre-press draft pre-modern Hindi manuscript. On the other hand there were also lots of what you might call 'common place books' which had collections of notes and texts in them, but I don't think they were ever intended for printing, or copying out neatly. -------------------------------------------- Dr Peter G. Friedlander Asian Studies La Trobe University, VIC 3086, Australia Tel: (03) 9479 2064 Fax: (03) 9479 1880 Email: p.friedlander at latrobe.edu.au Hindi Language: http://www.latrobe.edu.au/indiangallery/default.htm From cln at SAS.UPENN.EDU Wed Dec 18 16:02:06 2002 From: cln at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Christian Lee Novetzke) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 02 21:32:06 +0530 Subject: International Conference on Indic Religions: Follow-Up Announcements Message-ID: <161227071895.23782.9570501988847827649.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello, I am distributing these announcements on behalf of Madhu Kishwar. Please respond to her directly. Thanks. Christian __________________________________________________________________________ International Conference on Indic Religions: Follow-Up Announcements Please Distribute I. Network of Scholars of Indic Religions On 22nd December 2003, soon after the conclusion of the Conference on Indic Religions, we will convene a special meeting to work towards the formation of a formal Network of Scholars of Indic Religions. Those interested in joining this meeting are requested to let us know of their interest at an early date. Membership fee for founder members: South Asia: Rs. 500 Rest: $125 II. Lowering Registration Fee Several scholars from abroad have written to say that the registration fee for the December 2003 Conference on Indic Religions is excessive and may inhibit participation, particularly from countries outside Europe and America. We had earlier followed the IAHR practice of charging a registration fee of US $125. We are committed to doing whatever possible to see that for those who find even the below mentioned fee unaffordable, no scholar genuinely interested in participating in the conference is inhibited from doing so on account of money problems. Accordingly, we have decided on the following structure of the fees: South Asia Foreign Participants Students: Rs.100 Student: $25 Early - Rs.200 Early: $ 50 Late - Rs.300 Late: $75 Note: The Committee would consider reducing or waiving the fee altogether. III. Travel support Many scholars keen to participate in the conference on Indic Religions with proposals for organising panels and presenting papers have written to say that they may not be able to raise institutional travel grants. The means at our disposal are limited but we have decided to try raising additional resources so that we may be able to provide some funding to meet travel costs of those scholars with substantial proposals in case they are unable to raise institutional funds. Sincerely, Madhu Kishwar Email: madhukishwar at indicreligions.com Christian Lee Novetzke Assistant Professor of South Asia Studies University of Pennsylvania 820 Williams Hall 36th and Spruce Streets Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305, USA Website: http://sas.upenn.edu/~cln Email: cln at sas.upenn.edu Number in India: 9818048892 From A.Griffiths at LET.LEIDENUNIV.NL Thu Dec 19 13:39:28 2002 From: A.Griffiths at LET.LEIDENUNIV.NL (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 02 15:39:28 +0200 Subject: (unpublished?) inscription Message-ID: <161227071900.23782.11434933782864077928.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, In D.B. Diskalkar's article "Atharvaveda and Epigraphi" [sic], J.A.S. Bombay n.s. 34--35 (1959--1960), I find a reference under item (16) to a "Khe.d Maahuli (Saataraa Dist.), Mahaaraashtra, stone inscription, dated ;S. 1499 (?). (unpublished)" Can anyone tell me more about this inscription --- has it perhaps been published by now? ---, supposedly associated with a Para;suraama temple, or about the Bhaargavaraama temple which, Diskalkar writes, is also located in Maahuli, at the confluence of the Krishna and Vennaa rivers, and is in charge of Atharvavedic Brahmins? Best greetings from -- Arlo Griffiths CNWS / Instituut Kern Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden the Netherlands tel.: +31-71-5274128 From indologia at LATINMAIL.COM Fri Dec 20 13:22:32 2002 From: indologia at LATINMAIL.COM (humanidades India) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 02 08:22:32 -0500 Subject: Russia Veda??? Message-ID: <161227071904.23782.8826843842741207030.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Chairman of Religius Affairs Comitte en the Ural region and researcher of State University of the Urals reports the presence of a book called Sussian Veda, Its work relates histories liike the puranic account of Krisna lila, the hero is called Krishen. The cuestion arise, some of your erudite persons have notions of the dates of this work??? Or do you have the e-mails of this University or this Professor?? Horacio, Arganis U A de C www.uadec.mx _________________________________________________________ http://www.latinmail.com. Gratuito, latino y en espa?ol. From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Fri Dec 20 09:57:14 2002 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 02 09:57:14 +0000 Subject: OpenType Font for ISO 15919 (fwd) Message-ID: <161227071902.23782.7800426352835389588.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:35:18 +0100 From: Ulrich.Stiehl To: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Subject: OpenType Font for ISO 15919 OpenType Unicode Font for ISO 15919 Only ONE single person was interested in this OT font for ISO 15919. Therefore this OT font cannot be made. Perhaps in a couple of years, more indologists will be interested in state-of-the-art OpenType Unicode fonts. Ulrich.Stiehl at t-online.de From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Dec 20 16:21:27 2002 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 02 11:21:27 -0500 Subject: Cataloging post in Hindi or Sanskrit (etc.) at Library of Congress Message-ID: <161227071906.23782.12041625754567285988.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There is a cataloger's post open in the Library of Congress, in Washington, DC, described at: http://jsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/ftva.asp?OPMControl=TU5643 Applicants must know at least one of the following languages: Thai, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Hindi, or Sanskrit. Please address any questions about the positions to the places indicated in the posting, not to me. Allen Thrasher Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Southern Asia Section Asian Division Library of Congress Jefferson Building 150 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4810 tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 athr at loc.gov The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. From JFStaal at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU Sat Dec 21 01:46:20 2002 From: JFStaal at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (Frits Staal) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 02 17:46:20 -0800 Subject: Agrahara, gurukula, pravacana query (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227071912.23782.6790831553249545346.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> RE. pravacana One of the earliest or the earliest use of pravacana to refer to a "text" (but the point is that it isn't a text) is the Srauta Sutra of Baudhayana. It uses expressions such as "That direction" when the composer/teacher obviously pointed in a certain direction. See W. Caland, Uber das rituelle Sutra des Baudhayana, Abhandlungen fur die Kunde des Morgenlandes, 12/1 (1903) 1-65. Reprint Kraus 1966. On B.'s time and place see M.Witzel, "The Vedic Canon and its Political Milieu," Inside the Texts/Beyond the Texts, Harvard Oriental Series, opera minora, 1997: 316-7. At 10:34 PM 12/20/02 +0000, you wrote: >Kindly CC replies to Dr Venkat Rao at the "From:" email address just >below. >DW > > >--- > > >Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 01:20:31 +0530 (IST) >From: "venkat at ciefl.ac.in" > >Subject: query > > >[...] > >I have been for some time now groping for some historical material on the >themes of "agrahara", "gurukula", "pravacana" and in general the >"intellectual traditions" in the precolonial period. Though I am not an >indologist by training, I am drawn to these areas of inquiry. (My training >has been in the areas of literary theory and cultural studies or broadly >the fields of critical humanities). > >Lacking expertise in historical/philological methods, I am looking for >literary material. Currently I am absorbed in the biography of a >Mahamahopadhyaya Rani Narasimhasastry (a Vedanta Pandit from Andhra, who >died last year in November). The biography is narrated by his son (who is >also a Sanskrit pandit), in his autobiography aptly called The Last >Brahmin. I have begun to feel that this is a classic work in this area >(probably first of its kind to have been written from inside). One of the >most fascinating aspects of this work is to offer a critique of religion >from the ontological basis of caste. This is probably one of the first >philosophical critiques of Brahmanism to emerge from the classical >traditional background. A powerful intellectual position is examined by >the narrator in conjunction with its tragic undercurrent (the place this >tradition accords to women). I am currently involved in translating this >work. > >While working on this and as I came across your own work website, I >thought I should seek your help in continuing my inquiry. Could you >kindly inform me (or suggest sources) whether there is any work on the >theme of agrahara. Is there any work on the Sanskrit curriculum as it was >developed (a) in traditional setting and (b) after 18th century especially >in the context of South India . > >I am sorry to bother you with these questions. I would be grateful if you >could spare some time to help me in pursuing my inquiry. > >Kind regards > >D. Venkat Rao >School of Critical Humanities >Central Institute of Enlgish and Foreign Languages >Hyderabad 500007 >India Frits Staal http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal/ From JFStaal at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU Sat Dec 21 01:56:20 2002 From: JFStaal at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (Frits Staal) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 02 17:56:20 -0800 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227071914.23782.9110920985459861727.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sorry listmembers - I just sent a reply for Dr. Venkat Rao to all of you. Have forwarded it him. Frits Staal http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal/ From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Fri Dec 20 22:34:10 2002 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 02 22:34:10 +0000 Subject: Agrahara, gurukula, pravacana query (fwd) Message-ID: <161227071910.23782.12330255301682889341.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Kindly CC replies to Dr Venkat Rao at the "From:" email address just below. DW --- Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 01:20:31 +0530 (IST) From: "venkat at ciefl.ac.in" Subject: query [...] I have been for some time now groping for some historical material on the themes of "agrahara", "gurukula", "pravacana" and in general the "intellectual traditions" in the precolonial period. Though I am not an indologist by training, I am drawn to these areas of inquiry. (My training has been in the areas of literary theory and cultural studies or broadly the fields of critical humanities). Lacking expertise in historical/philological methods, I am looking for literary material. Currently I am absorbed in the biography of a Mahamahopadhyaya Rani Narasimhasastry (a Vedanta Pandit from Andhra, who died last year in November). The biography is narrated by his son (who is also a Sanskrit pandit), in his autobiography aptly called The Last Brahmin. I have begun to feel that this is a classic work in this area (probably first of its kind to have been written from inside). One of the most fascinating aspects of this work is to offer a critique of religion from the ontological basis of caste. This is probably one of the first philosophical critiques of Brahmanism to emerge from the classical traditional background. A powerful intellectual position is examined by the narrator in conjunction with its tragic undercurrent (the place this tradition accords to women). I am currently involved in translating this work. While working on this and as I came across your own work website, I thought I should seek your help in continuing my inquiry. Could you kindly inform me (or suggest sources) whether there is any work on the theme of agrahara. Is there any work on the Sanskrit curriculum as it was developed (a) in traditional setting and (b) after 18th century especially in the context of South India . I am sorry to bother you with these questions. I would be grateful if you could spare some time to help me in pursuing my inquiry. Kind regards D. Venkat Rao School of Critical Humanities Central Institute of Enlgish and Foreign Languages Hyderabad 500007 India From lel at LEL.MSK.RU Fri Dec 20 21:57:09 2002 From: lel at LEL.MSK.RU (Lielukhine D.N.) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 02 00:57:09 +0300 Subject: Russia Veda??? In-Reply-To: <20021220132229.1BB2218613@smtp.latinmail.com> Message-ID: <161227071908.23782.15490030549662926432.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Do you know his family ? Any other coordinates ? Friday, December 20, 2002, 4:22:32 PM, you wrote: hI> The Chairman of Religius Affairs Comitte en the Ural region and researcher of State University of the Urals reports the presence of a book called Sussian Veda, Its work relates histories liike hI> the puranic account of Krisna lila, the hero is called Krishen. The cuestion arise, some of your erudite persons have notions of the dates of this work??? Or do you have the e-mails of this hI> University or this Professor?? hI> Horacio, Arganis hI> U A de C hI> www.uadec.mx hI> _________________________________________________________ hI> http://www.latinmail.com. Gratuito, latino y en espa?ol. -- Best regards, Lielukhine mailto:lel at lel.msk.ru From m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM Sat Dec 21 10:10:40 2002 From: m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM (marina orelskaya) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 02 02:10:40 -0800 Subject: About Russian Veda In-Reply-To: <301923859.20021221005709@lel.msk.ru> Message-ID: <161227071916.23782.13454308065541233363.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The book called Russian Vedas is, in fact, a compilation based on the folk songs and mythological stories retold by a modern Russian fantasy writer A.Barashkov (under pseudonyms Bus Kresen' and Alexandr Asov). The book came out about 10 years ago. The edition contained so called Pesni ptitsy Gamaiun (Songs of the Gamaiun bird) and a Russian translation of the Vlesova Kniga (The book of Veles). The name Kryshen' is originally found in the latter, where it has been listed among the others at the beginning of the text. All parallels of this character with Krishna or other similar associations are apparently modern trends of neo-pagan ideology. There are also other more or less similar books called Slavic Vedas, Aryan Vedas and the like. Regards, Marina Orelskaya Dr Marina Orelskaya C/o Department of Performing Arts University of Pune Ganeshkhind Road Pune 411007 Maharashtra India --- "Lielukhine D.N." wrote: > Do you know his family ? Any other coordinates ? > Friday, December 20, 2002, 4:22:32 PM, you wrote: > hI> The Chairman of Religius Affairs Comitte en the > Ural region and researcher of State University of > the Urals reports the presence of a book called > Sussian Veda, Its work relates histories liike > hI> the puranic account of Krisna lila, the hero is > called Krishen. The cuestion arise, some of your > erudite persons have notions of the dates of this > work??? Or do you have the e-mails of this > hI> University or this Professor?? > hI> Horacio, Arganis > hI> U A de C > hI> www.uadec.mx > > > hI> > _________________________________________________________ > hI> http://www.latinmail.com. Gratuito, latino y en > espa?ol. > > > > -- > Best regards, > Lielukhine mailto:lel at lel.msk.ru __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From indologia at LATINMAIL.COM Sun Dec 22 14:54:53 2002 From: indologia at LATINMAIL.COM (humanidades India) Date: Sun, 22 Dec 02 09:54:53 -0500 Subject: About Russian Veda Message-ID: <161227071918.23782.13064362937136019827.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Mrs. Marina: Thanks very much. My regarding is about the popular folk. It is coming from long ago??? Because according to the quoted Dr. It is coming from the legends of Norse and other barbarics fathers of Russia. Therefore. do youknow more about this? Horacio UAdeC > The book called Russian Vedas is, in fact, a > compilation based on the folk songs and mythological > stories retold by a modern Russian fantasy writer > A.Barashkov (under pseudonyms Bus Kresen' and Alexandr > Asov). The book came out about 10 years ago. The > edition contained so called Pesni ptitsy Gamaiun > (Songs of the Gamaiun bird) and a Russian translation > of the Vlesova Kniga (The book of Veles). The name > Kryshen' is originally found in the latter, where it > has been listed among the others at the beginning of > the text. All parallels of this character with Krishna > or other similar associations are apparently modern > trends of neo-pagan ideology. There are also other > more or less similar books called Slavic Vedas, Aryan > Vedas and the like. > > Regards, > Marina Orelskaya > > Dr Marina Orelskaya > C/o Department of Performing Arts > University of Pune > Ganeshkhind Road > Pune 411007 > Maharashtra > India > > --- "Lielukhine D.N." wrote: > > Do you know his family ? Any other coordinates ? > > > Friday, December 20, 2002, 4:22:32 PM, you wrote: > > hI> The Chairman of Religius Affairs Comitte en the > > Ural region and researcher of State University of > > the Urals reports the presence of a book called > > Sussian Veda, Its work relates histories liike > > hI> the puranic account of Krisna lila, the hero is > > called Krishen. The cuestion arise, some of your > > erudite persons have notions of the dates of this > > work??? Or do you have the e-mails of this > > hI> University or this Professor?? > > hI> Horacio, Arganis > > hI> U A de C > > hI> www.uadec.mx > > > > > > hI> > > > _________________________________________________________ > > hI> http://www.latinmail.com. Gratuito, latino y en > > espa?ol. > > > > > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > Lielukhine > mailto:lel at lel.msk.ru > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________ http://www.latinmail.com. Gratuito, latino y en espa?ol. From karp at MERCURY.CI.UW.EDU.PL Tue Dec 24 13:53:59 2002 From: karp at MERCURY.CI.UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 02 14:53:59 +0100 Subject: Xmas In-Reply-To: <20021221101040.94489.qmail@web12503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227071920.23782.9246280264470600597.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year to all patricipants of the Indology List Artur Karp Poland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 2002-12-17 From m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM Thu Dec 26 21:46:29 2002 From: m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM (marina orelskaya) Date: Thu, 26 Dec 02 13:46:29 -0800 Subject: About Russian Veda In-Reply-To: <20021222145453.2E3853BA269@smtp.latinmail.com> Message-ID: <161227071923.23782.11238098253706025826.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> As far as I remember, Mr Barashkov has based his fantasies mostly on the songs and ballads collected by various researchers in the 19th-20th centuries (like Gilferding). Some of the texts have traces of the Slavic pagan cults. Ironically, more information about these cults is found in the Christian works against Slavic paganism, etc. What exactly are you interested in? Regards, Marina Orelskaya Dr Marina Orelskaya C/o Department of Performing Arts University of Pune Ganeshkhind Road Pune 411007 Maharashtra India --- humanidades India wrote: > Mrs. Marina: > Thanks very much. My regarding is about the popular > folk. It is coming from long ago??? Because > according to the quoted Dr. It is coming from the > legends of Norse and other barbarics fathers of > Russia. Therefore. do youknow more about this? > Horacio > UAdeC > > > > The book called Russian Vedas is, in fact, a > > > compilation based on the folk songs and > mythological > > > stories retold by a modern Russian fantasy writer > > > A.Barashkov (under pseudonyms Bus Kresen' and > Alexandr > > > Asov). The book came out about 10 years ago. The > > > edition contained so called Pesni ptitsy Gamaiun > > > (Songs of the Gamaiun bird) and a Russian > translation > > > of the Vlesova Kniga (The book of Veles). The name > > > Kryshen' is originally found in the latter, where > it > > > has been listed among the others at the beginning > of > > > the text. All parallels of this character with > Krishna > > > or other similar associations are apparently > modern > > > trends of neo-pagan ideology. There are also other > > > more or less similar books called Slavic Vedas, > Aryan > > > Vedas and the like. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Marina Orelskaya > > > > > > Dr Marina Orelskaya > > > C/o Department of Performing Arts > > > University of Pune > > > Ganeshkhind Road > > > Pune 411007 > > > Maharashtra > > > India > > > > > > --- "Lielukhine D.N." wrote: > > > > Do you know his family ? Any other coordinates ? > > > > > > > Friday, December 20, 2002, 4:22:32 PM, you > wrote: > > > > hI> The Chairman of Religius Affairs Comitte en > the > > > > Ural region and researcher of State University > of > > > > the Urals reports the presence of a book called > > > > Sussian Veda, Its work relates histories liike > > > > hI> the puranic account of Krisna lila, the hero > is > > > > called Krishen. The cuestion arise, some of your > > > > erudite persons have notions of the dates of > this > > > > work??? Or do you have the e-mails of this > > > > hI> University or this Professor?? > > > > hI> Horacio, Arganis > > > > hI> U A de C > > > > hI> www.uadec.mx > > > > > > > > > > > > hI> > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > hI> http://www.latinmail.com. Gratuito, latino > y en > > > > espa?ol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Best regards, > > > > Lielukhine > > > mailto:lel at lel.msk.ru > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > now. > > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > http://www.latinmail.com. Gratuito, latino y en espa?ol. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From indologia at LATINMAIL.COM Fri Dec 27 22:23:13 2002 From: indologia at LATINMAIL.COM (humanidades India) Date: Fri, 27 Dec 02 17:23:13 -0500 Subject: Xmas Message-ID: <161227071925.23782.1673484397473640390.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---gomati [?] putena bh?gavatena.. bhagavato pr?sadota masa gaudadhvaja k?rita dv{asa?bhisite] bh?gavate mah?raje. Hello!! Happy new year to all of Yours. Could of your erudite person translate the last sanscrit quoted. It is for corraboret the my, becuase my sanscrit teacher is now in vacation. Is so urgent???? Wth my best wish for all of your Horacio F. Arganis www.uadec.mx _________________________________________________________ http://www.latinmail.com. Gratuito, latino y en espa?ol. From indologia at LATINMAIL.COM Fri Dec 27 22:27:18 2002 From: indologia at LATINMAIL.COM (humanidades India) Date: Fri, 27 Dec 02 17:27:18 -0500 Subject: inscripton Message-ID: <161227071927.23782.11028281745597392101.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---gomati [?] putena bh?gavatena.. bhagavato pr?sadota masa gaudadhvaja k?rita dv{asa?bhisite] bh?gavate mah?raje. Hello!! Happy new year to all of Yours. Could of your erudite person translate the last sanscrit quoted? It is for corrabored the my, becuase my sanscrit teacher is now in vacation. Is so urgent???? Wth my best wish for all of your Horacio F. Arganis www.uadec.mx _________________________________________________________ http://www.latinmail.com. Gratuito, latino y en espa?ol. From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM Sun Dec 29 16:01:32 2002 From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Sun, 29 Dec 02 08:01:32 -0800 Subject: Upcoming Somayaagam in Trissur, Kerala Message-ID: <161227071929.23782.5946723174347318796.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> For those interested in current performances of Vedic rituals the following message is forwarded in abbreviated form in acccordance with the guidelines of the list (ca. two screenfuls maximum). For the full message contact addresses are given at the end. Jan Houben *** Somayaagam 2003 ------------------------------- The objective of this article is to inform the world that it has been decided to conduct a "Somayaagam", at Vadakke Madhom Brahmaswom (Brahmaswom Madhom, M. G. Road, Trissur - 680001 , Kerala, India, Tel: ++91 487 2440877 ). The 6-day Somayaagam (Agnistomam) will begin on 6th April, 2003. The team headed by Thaikkat Vaidikan Neelakantan Namboothiri had sworn (by reciting "Thaitheereeyam Bhaasha" ) in the name of Lord Dakshinaamoorthy of Sukapuram to perform the Somayaagam with Puthillam Ramanujan Namboothiri as Yajamaanan. He has already commenced the elaborate preparations. The word "Yaagam" in Kerala-context is the same as "Yajna" in other states. The attractions of the Somayaagam in Kerala is that all Rithwiks learn all manthras by heart and chanted in the traditional style, with vedic accents like Udaatha, Anudaatha and Svarita as well as the special hand gestures ("Mudra") that accompany special features of Vedam recitation. This method of vedic recitation is believed to release maximum positive energy for purifying the environment. It is well known that large quantity of fumes arising out of burnt ghee, seeds and vast quantity of appropriate herbals, cleanse the environment. ***snip*** ( Data collected and the article prepared by P. Vinod Bhattathiripad, Polpaya Mana, Thiruthiyad, Calicut 673004, Kerala, India. ) For more details, here are the telephone numbers & e-mail addresses. 1. P. Vinod Bhattathiripad, Chief Co-ordinator, namboothiri.com, Calicut & Joint Secretary of Somayaagam 2003 committee: 0495 - 2720522 (R), 2723522 (R). e-mail: 2. Olappamanna Damodaran Namboothiripad, President, Brahmaswom Madhom, Trissur-1 Tel: 0487-2440877 (O), 0492 - 682383 (R). 3. Vaidikan Thekkat Neelakantan Namboothiri ( For ritual related queries ): 0494 - 2680896 (R) 4. V. K. Narayanan Namboothiri, Secretary, Brahmaswom Madhom, Trissur-1 Tel: 0487-2440877 (O), 0488 - 525383 (R) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM Mon Dec 30 14:28:42 2002 From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 02 06:28:42 -0800 Subject: New York Times article "Hijacking India's History" In-Reply-To: <20021229160132.74510.qmail@web40801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227071931.23782.3348184855990402873.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Readers of this list may be interested in an article by Kai Friese now appearing in the New York Times, entitled "Hijacking India's History" and dealing with "the rewriting of history" by "the men who run India". http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/30/opinion/30FRIE.html?todaysheadlines Jan Houben __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. 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