From m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM  Tue Apr  2 11:40:50 2002
From: m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM (marina orelskaya)
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 02 03:40:50 -0800
Subject: "Shaman"
In-Reply-To: <l03130301b8cb1e087ef0@[212.1.141.126]>
Message-ID: <161227070796.23782.5112854887276226311.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Is "shaman" a really English word?

Regards,
Marina Orelskaya


--- Valerie J Roebuck <vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET>
wrote:
> What is the current thinking on the relationship (if
> any) between English
> "shaman" and Sanskrit "zramaNa"?
>
> Thanks--
>
> Dr Valerie J Roebuck
> Manchester, UK


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/




From m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM  Tue Apr  2 16:49:53 2002
From: m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM (marina orelskaya)
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 02 08:49:53 -0800
Subject: "Shaman"
In-Reply-To: <l03130304b8cf6ee4c0d3@[212.1.159.94]>
Message-ID: <161227070802.23782.5824805395735668594.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

We use the same word in Russian. I always assumed, it
is coming from a local dialect. Unfortunately, I do
not have any Russian or Slavic dictionary around to
check it up. Perhaps, someone could do it?
     Regards.
    Marina Orelskaya


--- Valerie J Roebuck <vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET>
wrote:
> According to the OED, it was first recorded in
> English in 1698.  It now
> occurs in books and newspapers without italics or
> explanations, so I would
> think it is.
>
> Valerie J Roebuck
> Manchester, UK
>
> >Is "shaman" a really English word?
> >
> >Regards,
> >Marina Orelskaya
> >
> >
> >--- Valerie J Roebuck <vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET>
> >wrote:
> >> What is the current thinking on the relationship
> (if
> >> any) between English
> >> "shaman" and Sanskrit "zramaNa"?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Tue Apr  2 13:38:30 2002
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 02 14:38:30 +0100
Subject: Resources/Networks of the Harvard Forum for Central Asian Studies              (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227070798.23782.745822645715586813.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 08:08:52 -0500
From: John Schoeberlein - HFCAS <centasia at fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Resources/Networks of the Harvard Forum for Central Asian Studies
From: John Schoeberlein, Director, Harvard Forum for Central Asian Studies
       President, Central Eurasian Studies Society
Re:   Resources/Networks of the Harvard Forum for Central Asian Studies


Dear Mr. Dominik Wujastyk:

I outline below a number of information resources and networks which I hope
will be of interest to you.  Central Eurasia is understudied and it is
generally difficult to get good information about the region.  The Harvard
Forum for Central Asian Studies is working on a number of fronts to address
this problem by promoting information exchange and building of the field of
study.  With heightened focus on Afghanistan and the region, now is an
opportune time to bring these resources to wider attention.  Please help to
pass this on to anyone you know who would be interested.

The resources/networks described below include:
  * The Central Eurasian Studies Society
  * The <CentralAsia-L> Announcement List for Central Asian Studies
  * The Central Asia Experts Directory (an on-line resource)
  * Dissertations in Central Asian Studies (on-line)
  * Guide to Scholars of Central Asia (print publication)
  * <Central Asian Studies World Wide>

You are encouraged to visit the web addresses listed below, or to contact
us via e-mail for more information about specific items or to sign up for
any of the resources/networks.

More information about Central Asia/Eurasia is available on the <Central Asian
Studies World Wide> website (http://www.fas.harvard.edu/casww/).  Note that we
use the terms "Central Asia" and "Central Eurasia" in more or less the same
meaning, encompassing a broad region from Mongolia to the Black Sea and
Afghanistan to Siberia.

I write to you because you are in our database as someone with interest
in/commitment to Central Eurasia.  We send a broad mailing such as this about
once a year to provide an update on resources which may interest you.  If your
interest in the region is not sufficient to justify our writing to you, please
let us know and we'll take note accordingly.

Please also let us know if your e-mail address changes so that we can stay in
contact.  If you receive more than one copy of this note from me, please let us
know the duplicate addresses so that we can avoid this in future.

Thank you for your interest!

Sincerely,

John Schoeberlein

Director, Harvard Forum for Central Asian Studies
   +  e-mail: <centasia at fas.harvard.edu>
   +  web: <http://www.fas.harvard.edu/centasia/>
President, Central Eurasian Studies Society
   +  e-mail: <CESS at fas.harvard.edu>
   +  web: <http://www.fas.harvard.edu/cess/>
Chief Editor, <Central Asian Studies World Wide>
   +  web: <http://www.fas.harvard.edu/casww/>



===================================================
   SOME KEY RESOURCES/NETWORKS Sponsored or Hosted
    by the Harvard Forum for Central Asian Studies
===================================================

MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATION:

[1] Central Eurasian Studies Society (CESS)

   A scholarly association with a worldwide membership of people who are
   committed to building the study of Central Eurasia in the humanities and
   social sciences.  The Central Eurasian Studies Society holds an annual
   conference (this year: 17-20 Oct., Madison, Wisconsin), and publishes
   the Central Eurasian Studies Review, among other activities.  Current
   membership includes about 750 people in over 50 countries.

   CESS information/on-line publications:
   http://www.fas.harvard.edu/cess
   To Register as a Member:
   http://www.fas.harvard.edu/cess/CESS_Membership.html
   To Sign Up for the CESS Occasional Mailing List (infrequent notices
   regarding CESS meetings, publications, and other activities):
   http://www.fas.harvard.edu/cess/CESS_Mailing_List.html

   If you are at the upcoming ASN conference in New York, 11-13 April 2002,
   join us for a short CESS Informational Meeting at Friday 12 April,
   6:45 pm in Room 1512.


ANNOUNCEMENT LISTS (via listserver):

[2] <CentralAsia-L> - Announcement List for Central Asian Studies

   The widest reaching media in Central Eurasian studies.  Distributes
   notices via e-mail about conferences, publications, grants, jobs and
   other matters of interest to people studying Central Asia/Eurasia.
   Over 3,200 subscribers worldwide.

   Contact: owner-CentralAsia-L at fas.harvard.edu
   For information, or to subscribe, visit the webpage:
   http://www.fas.harvard.edu/casww/CASWW_CentralAsia-L.html
   To view the archive of past announcements, visit:
   http://www.fas.harvard.edu/casww/CASWW_CAL_Archive.html

[3] Note: there is a separate announcement list covering events/resources
   at Harvard University -- information/subscription:
   http://www.fas.harvard.edu/centasia/Subscribe_CAHL.html


ON-LINE DIRECTORIES:

[4] "Central Asia Experts Directory"

   Provides a link between those who have expertise to offer on Central
   Asia and those who need it.  Useful for journalists, international
   organizations, government, business...  Currently, the Experts Directory
   contains about 200 experts on politics, international relations, economy,
   the environment, social issues, and cultural and historical background.

   To access the Directory or submit your information, visit:
   http://www.fas.harvard.edu/casww/CASWW_Expert.html

[5] "Dissertations in Central Asian Studies"

   Comprehensive information on the current generation of young scholarship
   on Central Eurasia as reflected in Ph.D. and equivalent dissertations which
   have been completed in the past 8-10 years.  This guide helps to identify
   unpublished work of interest to those selecting dissertation topics,
   organizing conferences, etc.  Currently, the Dissertations in Central Asian
   Studies pages contain over 250 dissertations.  Please help to ensure that
   your university/department's graduates are fully represented.

   To access the listing or submit information, visit:
   http://www.fas.harvard.edu/casww/CASWW_Diss.html


REFERENCE ON WORLDWIDE SCHOLARS:

[6] "Guide to Scholars of Central Asia"

   The second edition of the Guide to Scholars is due for publication soon.
   This will contain comprehensive information about over 3,000 scholars world
   wide in the society, politics, culture and history of Central Asia from the
   Caucasus to Mongolia.  The first edition is sold out after two printings --
   there is still time to include your data in the new edition if you are a
   qualified scholar.

   For more information, pre-orders, and to submit your data:
   http://www.fas.harvard.edu/casww/Guide_to_Scholars.html


COMPREHENSIVE REGIONAL STUDIES WEBSITE:

[7] <Central Asian Studies World Wide>

   <Central Asian Studies World Wide> is a central source for information
   relevant to the study of Central Asia:  Central Asian studies research and
   training institutions, publications, conferences, contacts, and much more.
   We are interested to hear from those who might volunteer to serve as
   regional and thematic correspondents to help cover all aspects of Central
   Asian studies.

   http://www.fas.harvard.edu/casww




From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET  Tue Apr  2 14:33:13 2002
From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck)
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 02 15:33:13 +0100
Subject: "Shaman"
In-Reply-To: <20020402114050.27343.qmail@web12503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227070800.23782.8186070577032018018.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

According to the OED, it was first recorded in English in 1698.  It now
occurs in books and newspapers without italics or explanations, so I would
think it is.

Valerie J Roebuck
Manchester, UK

>Is "shaman" a really English word?
>
>Regards,
>Marina Orelskaya
>
>
>--- Valerie J Roebuck <vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET>
>wrote:
>> What is the current thinking on the relationship (if
>> any) between English
>> "shaman" and Sanskrit "zramaNa"?




From asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Tue Apr  2 23:59:37 2002
From: asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Andrew Glass)
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 02 15:59:37 -0800
Subject: "Shaman"
Message-ID: <161227070809.23782.13847420364340274832.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> According to Soothill & Hidous the Chinese word 'sa men' is a
> phonetic rendering of zramaNa.

For those of you with unicode enabled email, the Chinese characters John is referring to are:
    ??
Current thinking on the Gandhari Hypothesis would argue that this term reflects the Gandhari term SamaNa rather than Sanskrit zramaNa.

Andrew Glass

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John C. Huntington" <huntington.2 at OSU.EDU>
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: "Shaman"


> Dear All,
> 
> I have no idea where the word comes from but I have heard it used by
> anthropologists to describe the ritual specialists in an animistic
> religion called "Shamanism" that circles the pacific rim.  There
> shamans in Burma, Thailand, Laos, Kampuchia, Tibetans, Chinese
> minorities especially among the Mongyur or Tu peoples among the
> Mongols, the Siberian and Alaskan Eskimos, North West coast Indians,
> the Huichol of Mexico and among the Inca of Peru. There is a
> remarkable parallelism among the activities of Shamans through out
> all of these cultures.there is also residual shamanism in Korea and
> Japan and Pakistan.  Shamans go into a ritual dance and become
> possessed by a "friend" or "guide" and descend to the underworld to
> benefit their moiety group. some shamans are epileptic although that
> is rare.  Most simply bring on the trance state or induce it with
> some substance.
> 
> There is a relatively vast literature  on the subject in religious
> studies and anthropological studies.
> 
> According to Soothill & Hidous the Chinese word 'sa men' is a
> phonetic rendering of zramaNa.
> I have included a tiny graphic of the characters, but, if I remember
> correctly, this list deletes graphics so you may not get it. (it was
> rejected)
> 
> Their similarity might just be coincidental or possibly the Chinese
> word for priest might have been adapted  during early periods of
> European contact?
> 
> John C. Huntington
> 
> >We use the same word in Russian. I always assumed, it
> >is coming from a local dialect. Unfortunately, I do
> >not have any Russian or Slavic dictionary around to
> >check it up. Perhaps, someone could do it?
> >      Regards.
> >     Marina Orelskaya
> >
> >
> >--- Valerie J Roebuck <vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET>
> >wrote:
> >>  According to the OED, it was first recorded in
> >>  English in 1698.  It now
> >>  occurs in books and newspapers without italics or
> >>  explanations, so I would
> >>  think it is.
> >>
> >>  Valerie J Roebuck
> >>  Manchester, UK
> >>
> >>  >Is "shaman" a really English word?
> >>  >
> >>  >Regards,
> >>  >Marina Orelskaya
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  >--- Valerie J Roebuck <vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET>
> >>  >wrote:
> >>  >> What is the current thinking on the relationship
> >>  (if
> >>  >> any) between English
> >>  >> "shaman" and Sanskrit "zramaNa"?
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> >http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> 




From reimann at UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU  Wed Apr  3 01:04:00 2002
From: reimann at UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann)
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 02 17:04:00 -0800
Subject: "Shaman"
In-Reply-To: <20020402164953.82334.qmail@web12507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227070811.23782.6581113477277364871.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Marina,

Below is Gary Holland's response to Valerie's question (from another list).

Luis Gonzalez-Reimann
University of California, Berkeley
____________
At 08:49 AM 04/02/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>We use the same word in Russian. I always assumed, it
>is coming from a local dialect. Unfortunately, I do
>not have any Russian or Slavic dictionary around to
>check it up. Perhaps, someone could do it?
>     Regards.
>    Marina Orelskaya
____________

These words are ultimately the same. English shaman is borrowed from 
Russian. 
The Russian word in turn is borrowed from Tungusic, which must have borrowed 
the word from Tocharian B, which has s.ama:ne 'monk, ascetic'. The
Tocharian B 
word was borrowed either directly, or via a Middle Indic intermediary, from 
the Sanskrit word. 
For a short exposition of the importance of shamanism in Tungusic culture see 
Lopatin's contribution to Handbuch der Orientalistik, f?nfter Band: 
Altaistik, dritter Abschnitt: Tungusologie, p. 17ff.
I have just found that this etymology is given in the American Heritage 
Dictionary.
Gary Holland




From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU  Tue Apr  2 23:23:23 2002
From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington)
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 02 18:23:23 -0500
Subject: "Shaman"
Message-ID: <161227070804.23782.8743977559677413659.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear All,

I have no idea where the word comes from but I have heard it used by
anthropologists to describe the ritual specialists in an animistic
religion called "Shamanism" that circles the pacific rim.  There
shamans in Burma, Thailand, Laos, Kampuchia, Tibetans, Chinese
minorities especially among the Mongyur or Tu peoples among the
Mongols, the Siberian and Alaskan Eskimos, North West coast Indians,
the Huichol of Mexico and among the Inca of Peru. There is a
remarkable parallelism among the activities of Shamans through out
all of these cultures.there is also residual shamanism in Korea and
Japan and Pakistan.  Shamans go into a ritual dance and become
possessed by a "friend" or "guide" and descend to the underworld to
benefit their moiety group. some shamans are epileptic although that
is rare.  Most simply bring on the trance state or induce it with
some substance.

There is a relatively vast literature  on the subject in religious
studies and anthropological studies.

According to Soothill & Hidous the Chinese word 'sa men' is a
phonetic rendering of zramaNa.
I have included a tiny graphic of the characters, but, if I remember
correctly, this list deletes graphics so you may not get it. (it was
rejected)

Their similarity might just be coincidental or possibly the Chinese
word for priest might have been adapted  during early periods of
European contact?

John C. Huntington

>We use the same word in Russian. I always assumed, it
>is coming from a local dialect. Unfortunately, I do
>not have any Russian or Slavic dictionary around to
>check it up. Perhaps, someone could do it?
>      Regards.
>     Marina Orelskaya
>
>
>--- Valerie J Roebuck <vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET>
>wrote:
>>  According to the OED, it was first recorded in
>>  English in 1698.  It now
>>  occurs in books and newspapers without italics or
>>  explanations, so I would
>>  think it is.
>>
>>  Valerie J Roebuck
>>  Manchester, UK
>>
>>  >Is "shaman" a really English word?
>>  >
>>  >Regards,
>>  >Marina Orelskaya
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >--- Valerie J Roebuck <vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET>
>>  >wrote:
>>  >> What is the current thinking on the relationship
>>  (if
>>  >> any) between English
>>  >> "shaman" and Sanskrit "zramaNa"?
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
>http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/




From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU  Tue Apr  2 23:33:46 2002
From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington)
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 02 18:33:46 -0500
Subject: Pictures
In-Reply-To: <20020402164953.82334.qmail@web12507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227070806.23782.1159773812916344515.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dominik Wujastyk

You have done a great thing founding the Indology list.  However I do
have one suggestion to make, let us include attachments in our
correspondence.  This is the only list serve that I am on that does
not and, since I am a visual arts person, I have found it hard to
reply when the message is about something visual. Today I posted a
comment on the shaman thread, and tried to include the proper Chinese
characters via an attachment but that very tiny attachment was
rejected.

It also might become of serious importance in sharing problematic
ligatures for those of us that deal with manuscripts.

Thank you for your consideration

John Huntington

--
John C. Huntington, Professor
(Buddhist Arts of Asia and Buddhist Iconography)
Department of the History of Art
The Ohio State University
108 North Oval Mall
Columbus, Ohio 43210-1318 U.S.A.
________________________________________
01 (614) 688-8198 Direct office line w/ voice-mail
01 (614) 292-7481 Department office
        (8:00a-5:00p EST [U.S])
________________________________________
Visit the Huntington Photographic Archive
of Buddhist and Related Arts at:
http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/
________________________________________




From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU  Wed Apr  3 01:55:35 2002
From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 02 19:55:35 -0600
Subject: Address
In-Reply-To: <3D04D7C4ED7@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <161227070813.23782.2131061434600748832.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Friends:

Could someone send me the e-mail address of Professor Brockington in
Edingburgh? Thanks.


Patrick Olivelle




From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU  Wed Apr  3 13:48:47 2002
From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 02 07:48:47 -0600
Subject: Address
In-Reply-To: <20020403071256.GB16163@deepthought>
Message-ID: <161227070818.23782.8328529023675646068.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thank you one and all for sending Brockington's address.

Patrick




From sbaums at GMX.NET  Wed Apr  3 07:12:56 2002
From: sbaums at GMX.NET (Stefan Baums)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 02 09:12:56 +0200
Subject: Address
In-Reply-To: <p0510032cb8d01161a2a3@[66.136.203.9]>
Message-ID: <161227070816.23782.249886027057162484.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Tuesday,  2 April 2002, Patrick Olivelle wrote:

> Could someone send me the e-mail address of Professor Brockington in
> Edingburgh? Thanks.

j.l.brockington at ed.ac.uk

--
Stefan Baums
Asien-Instituttet
K?benhavns Universitet




From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Wed Apr  3 15:37:51 2002
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 02 10:37:51 -0500
Subject: New EJVS issues (vol. 8,1-3)
Message-ID: <161227070820.23782.11722067549606438143.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In March we have released a number of issues of the
ELECTRONIC JOURNAL  OF VEDIC STUDIES:  http://users.primushost.com/~india/ejvs

EJVS 8-1:

         Iravatham Mahadevan,
     Aryan or Dravidian or Neither?
  A Study of Recent Attempts to Decipher
       the Indus Script (1995-2000)


EJVS 8-2:

      OBITUARY of R.N. Dandekar
       by Madhav M. Deshpande


EJVS 8-3:

          Philip T. Nicholson,
         The Soma Code, Part I:
    Luminous Visions in the Rig Veda.

        The Soma Code, Part II:
      Soma's Birth, Purification, and
        Transmutation into Indra.

        The Soma Code, Part III:
       Visions, Myths, and Drugs.

They are all available  now both in unformatted form and also as PDF (with
diacritics) at:
http://users.primushost.com/~india/ejvs/issues.html

NB: A special issue on the recent Leiden Soma conference, ed. by J. Houben,
is in the works.



========================================================
Michael Witzel
Department of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
2 Divinity Avenue, Cambridge MA 02138, USA

ph. 1- 617-496 2990 (also messages)
home page:  http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm




From mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU  Wed Apr  3 16:52:19 2002
From: mkapstei at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 02 10:52:19 -0600
Subject: "Shaman"
In-Reply-To: <p05100300b8d0d3560aea@[130.132.185.171]>
Message-ID: <161227070824.23782.9463659665569728188.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

And one should not neglect, either, the discussion of the
issue in Eliade's Shamanism, chap. 14, with reference to
Laufer and others who had written on this prior to
Eliade.




From jonathan.silk at YALE.EDU  Wed Apr  3 15:52:27 2002
From: jonathan.silk at YALE.EDU (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 02 10:52:27 -0500
Subject: "Shaman"
In-Reply-To: <003701c1daa2$b097cca0$b731e40c@c1526004a>
Message-ID: <161227070822.23782.1109494107023866443.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Alas, how when we forget the past we are doomed to repeat it. The
questions being asked about 'shaman' have not been ignored by
specialists.  For example, long ago:

Laufer, Berthold.  1917.  "Origin of the word Shaman."  American
Anthropologist 19 / 3: 361-71.


This is the only reference I have to hand at the moment on this
computer, but I recall having written  by hand somewhere a number of
other references to later studies dealing with the history of the
word. Guesses about the etymology (e.g. "Tungusic must have borrowed
the word from Tocharian B") seem to me, without data, not entirely
helpful. (The relation of zrama.na to Chinese sha-men, whether or not
Gandhari is involved, may well be a different but related problem, as
is the issue of whether at some time the complex, due to  phonetic
similarities, became conflated.)

No doubt others have more up-to-date references at hand (which is
what I assumed the original inquiry was after).

--

For quicker response these days please copy your reply to kinu at aol.com


Jonathan Silk

jonathan.silk at yale.edu

Dept. of Religious Studies
Box 208287
Yale University
New Haven CT 06520-8287
USA

tel. 203-432-0828
fax. 203-432-7844




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Wed Apr  3 22:31:29 2002
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 02 15:31:29 -0700
Subject: "Shaman"
Message-ID: <161227070826.23782.11051919027462958856.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Another religions specialist who delved into this issue was Mircea Eliade,
in his book Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy. First translated
edition in USA published in 1972 (I think) by Princeton.
J Kirkpatrick
===========================================================

> Alas, how when we forget the past we are doomed to repeat it. The
> questions being asked about 'shaman' have not been ignored by
> specialists.  For example, long ago:




From mahesrajpant at HOTMAIL.COM  Thu Apr  4 10:12:35 2002
From: mahesrajpant at HOTMAIL.COM (Mahes Raj Pant)
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 02 10:12:35 +0000
Subject: Announcement of a new publication
Message-ID: <161227070828.23782.1865771164900522780.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I would like to announce a new publication from Kathmandu thinking that it
may interest some of the members of  INDOLOGY list. This is a collection of
articles and is entitled Adarsha and is no. 2 in its series. Adarsha is an
English-language supplement to Purnima, a Nepali-language journal published
from Kathmandu and carrying papers on Nepalese history, epigraphy and other
antiquities and  several discipines of Sanskrit studies as well.
The first issue of Purnima was published in 1964 and now its 103rd issue is
on the market.
As Purnima is in Nepali, it is not well known outside Nepal. Rather it
sometimes falls a prey to plagiarism, as far as articles on Nepal concern.
Some of its issues and the same group's other publications contain papers on
the chronology professed in the Vedangajyautisha and  also on comparisons
between Indian and Greek mathematics and astronomy. However, these
contributions are practically unnoticed outside Nepal.
Adarsha in English language was founded in 1993 with an aim of disseminating
the research of Purnima group to a wider circle. However, it took us eight
years and a half to issue its second number because we have practically no
institutional and financial support.
The present number of Adarsha opens with an article that bases on the
Arthashastra of Kautalya and tries to explain causes of some  historical
episodes in the Indian subcontinent such as the Mutiny of 1857. The second
and the third papers review one of the volumes of An Encyclopaediac
Dictionary of Sanskrit in Historical Principles and two edited texts on the
Gandhashastra, published in a single volume in the Gaekwad's Oriental Series
in 1989, respectively. The fourth article is a step towards a historical
seismicity of Nepal. It supplies  descriptions of four major earthquakes
that struck the Kathmandu Valley during a period spanning the 13th to 19th
centuries. The fifth carries texts and English translations of 27
administrative documents from Nepal. The last article tries to solve the
problem of AgnidaNDa, about which I posted a querry on INDOLOGY on 27
September 2001.
                                 Adarsha
               A supplement to Purnima, the journal
                   of the Samshodhana-mandala
                                No. 2
Publisher    Pundit Publications, Kathmandu
Pp. 158        Price   Nepalese Rupees 350.00
Available in Kathmandu's leading bookshops


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com




From GthomGt at CS.COM  Fri Apr  5 02:03:46 2002
From: GthomGt at CS.COM (George Thompson)
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 02 21:03:46 -0500
Subject: Shaman
Message-ID: <161227070831.23782.5242013685354566853.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Well, there is no question in my mind that the word zramaNa [not attested in
early Vedic] is a crucial culture term of classical India.  I said as much a
month ago when my opinion was solicited on the Yahoo-list.  Let me quote
myself:

>Though the verbal root zram- appears to have good IE roots [cf. Greek
kremamai, kremnos; Old >Germ. hirmen, and discussion in Mayrhofer, EWA
II.664], zramaNa itself is unattested in Old >Vedic [although RV has
azramaNa, but in the sense 'untiring', not 'monk'].  First attestation of the
>meaning 'monk' is ZB.
>
>In Avestan there are no attestations of the root *sram-, nor of the word
*sramana.
>
>zramaNa as 'monk' became a much-travelled culture-word, accompanying the
Buddhist >migrations.  The Greeks knew the word  [Samanaioi, Sarmanoi, etc].
It shows up in Buddhist >Sogdian texts, in Khotanese, as well as in Mod.
Persian.  It is found in Tocharian, Chinese, and >Altaic [Tungusic].  It
eventually turns up quite early in the languages of Europe.
>
>It appears that Skt. zramaNa is an old IE word that developed in India a
novel semantics to convey >a novel cultural institution, that of the monk.


Marina Orelskaya might want to look at Vasmer's *Russisches Etymologisches
Woerterbuch* [3.370], which confirms the view of Indo-Europeanists that the
word "shaman" in Russian is indeed a borrowing from Tungusic.

The question is whether this Tungisic word itself is a borrowing of this
well-known Indic culture-word zramaNa [Middle Indic samaNa, Toch. B s.ama:ne]
or whether it is rather native to this Altaic language, as early reactions
like Laufer's argued.

It would be useful to know whether contemporary Altaicists continue to agree
with this Indo-Europeanist model of the word's presence in Altaic languages.
Are there any serious efforts to contest it?

It is good to learn of this article of Menges.in the Poppe Festschrift. But
what about those others alluded to who do not agree?  Who are they?  Would
Geoffrey Samuel or anyone else be able to characterize the consensus among
Altaicists right now?

Best wishes,

George Thompson




From sogbs at CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU  Thu Apr  4 23:43:57 2002
From: sogbs at CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU (Geoffrey Samuel)
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 02 09:43:57 +1000
Subject: Shaman
Message-ID: <161227070829.23782.7182864352264689785.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On the derivation of shaman from zramaNa, see also the discussion at
pp.240-3 of Karl Heinrich Menges, "Aus dem
animistisch-schamanistischen Wortschatz der Altajer." In W. Heissig
and K. Sagaster (ed), Gedanke und Wirkung: Festschrift zum 90.
Geburtstag von Nikolaus Poppe, pp.221-251. Wiesbaden Harrassowitz,
1989.

Menges supports the derivation (not everybody does), citing inter
alia a letter from Sir Harold Bailey to Carmen Blacker (included in
Blacker's The Catalpa Bow) which traces the term through Prakrit,
Saka, Tokharian, Sogdian "and other forms in Uigur Turkish, Asokan
Greek and New Persian until it reached China as sha-men. Thence it
made its way to Japan as shamon."

Geoffrey Samuel
--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Geoffrey Samuel and Santi Rozario, Department of Sociology & Anthropology,
University of Newcastle, NSW 2308, AUSTRALIA
phone (home) (02) 4957 0244, (work, Geoffrey) 4921 5698 (work, Santi) 4921 6790
fax +61-2-49216902 email (Geoffrey) sogbs at alinga.newcastle.edu.au
(Santi) sostr at alinga.newcastle.edu.au
WWW (work) http://www.newcastle.edu.au/school/socsci
WWW (personal) http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~mbbgbs
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *




From aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA  Sat Apr  6 15:44:14 2002
From: aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 02 07:44:14 -0800
Subject: Stem of munja grass
Message-ID: <161227070835.23782.16732027042089125364.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I herewith forward the following message received from Dr. Vidyasankar
Sundaresan. -- ashok aklujkar

1. Botanically speaking, grasses and coconut/palm/areca are not too far off
in the modern classification. Grasses belong to the family Gramineae under
the subclass Commelinidae, while coconut/areca/palm belong to the very next
subclass, namely Arecidae (this name is derived from the word areca). Both
subclasses fall under the class Monocotyledonae, i.e plants with seeds that
have only one cotyledon (as opposed to two cotyledons).

2. There are about 10000 species under Gramineae, including food grains like
rice and wheat, and also such plants as bamboo, sugarcane etc. As we all
know, bamboos and sugarcane can grow very tall, with even wood-like
formation in the stems, but they are nevertheless "grasses". Also, the
scientific name of Munja grass is Saccharum munja or Saccharum bengalense or
Saccharum sara (i.e. zara (Sanskrit)). I think bengalense is the preferred
botanical name, as botanists tend to give priority to geography over
language, although of course, there is no reason in these post-British-India
times why Bengal should be thus specially priviliged! Anyway, I notice that
the online Monier-Williams gives the botanical name Saccharum sara under
both entries. If munja and zara are closely related (much like both Africans
and Chinese are Homo sapiens), the ritual use of one instead of the other
makes perfect sense, and there may be no botanical confusion at all in this
case. Also, given that sugarcane also belongs to the same genus, i.e.
Saccharum, I have no difficulty in believing that munja can grow rather
tall.

3. In the context of 1 above, the word t.r.na used to refer to
coconut/areca/palm seems quite understandable. Common usage might consider
t.r.na to be tuccha, but maybe not so for special usages. And if we think
about it, both garden variety grass and coconut trees have many similarities
- monocotyledonous seeds, blade like leaves, clusters of flowers,
adventitious roots, no hard wood formation. The only major differing
characteristic is that the clusters of flowers give way to clusters of
medium to big sized nuts in coconut/areca/palm, while grass flowers do not.

4. Having cleared the botany, may I suggest that instead of "stem", one
should probably be thinking of translating as "pith"? This would make better
sense in the context of having to remove multiple outer layers in order to
expose the iSIkA. The interesting biological fact is that grass stems are
usually jointed with a solid vertical joint, and solid horizontal joints at
nodes. So they are hollow inside (think of bamboo flutes, but not so in the
case of sugarcane), enclosing only AkAza. I don't know if munja is also
ultimately hollow inside, but I would guess that it is. The comparison to
the invisible Atman would then be absolutely perfect, both in the anugItA
and in the pancadazI!

5. Finally, for pictures of Saccharum munja, people working in the areas of
water conservation and prevention of soil erosion may have them, or would
know what sources to search. This and other grasses are being extensively
studied in environmental programs in India and elsewhere. See for example
www.vetiver.org <http://www.vetiver.org>  (vetiver is derived from Tamil
veTTivEr)




From sogbs at CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU  Sat Apr  6 00:45:16 2002
From: sogbs at CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU (Geoffrey Samuel)
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 02 10:45:16 +1000
Subject: Shaman
In-Reply-To: <E16tcga-0001Z9-00@listserv2.liv.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <161227070833.23782.232949970317640421.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I'm afraid I'm not an Altaicist, so can't help there - I'd be
interested in the answer myself. Menges says "Es soll an dieser
Stelle noch einmal betont werden, dass gegen eine Herleitung des
tung. samaan/shamaan etc. aus dem indo-arischen Kulturkomplex, die
schon Klaproth, Schott, Mironov und Shirokogorov als richtig erkannt
hatten, keinerlei stichhaltige Argumente vorgebracht werden
k?nnen."(p.240)  - i.e. there are no valid arguments against deriving
shaman from an Indo-Aryan source. He cites the Bailey passage I
mentioned as the best documented derivation so far available, and
adds some notes on the plausibility of the sr/s shift, etc. Menges
then launches into an attack on Janhunen (in FUF 46, 1984, 184 -
unfortunately I don't have the volume here, only a photocopy of the
article, so I'm not certain what FUF stands for) who apparently
accused him of "basic absurdity" and an "omnicomparativist approach"
for supporting the derivation of shaman from zramaNa. Janhunen
"scheint nicht zu wissen, dass er sich mit seiner Behauptung nur
l?cherlich macht, - selbst wenn er mit ihr nicht allein dasteht."
(p.241). So there was clearly no consensus in the mid-1980s.

Geoffrey

>Would
>Geoffrey Samuel or anyone else be able to characterize the consensus among
>Altaicists right now?
>
>Best wishes,
>
>George Thompson

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Geoffrey Samuel and Santi Rozario, Department of Sociology & Anthropology,
University of Newcastle, NSW 2308, AUSTRALIA
phone (home) (02) 4957 0244, (work, Geoffrey) 4921 5698 (work, Santi) 4921 6790
fax +61-2-49216902 email (Geoffrey) sogbs at alinga.newcastle.edu.au
(Santi) sostr at alinga.newcastle.edu.au
WWW (work) http://www.newcastle.edu.au/school/socsci
WWW (personal) http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~mbbgbs
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *




From jfstaal at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU  Sat Apr  6 20:54:37 2002
From: jfstaal at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (Frits Staal)
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 02 12:54:37 -0800
Subject: Stem of munja grass
In-Reply-To: <B8D45774.16E0%aklujkar@interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <161227070837.23782.12369875039328937216.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Very grateful for Dr. Vidyasankar Sundaresan's authoritative information
and corrections in Ashok Aklujkar's forwarding -- a print-out must at least
for me.

At 07:44 AM 4/6/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I herewith forward the following message received from Dr. Vidyasankar
>Sundaresan. -- ashok aklujkar
>
>1. Botanically speaking, grasses and coconut/palm/areca are not too far off
>in the modern classification. Grasses belong to the family Gramineae under
>the subclass Commelinidae, while coconut/areca/palm belong to the very next
>subclass, namely Arecidae (this name is derived from the word areca). Both
>subclasses fall under the class Monocotyledonae, i.e plants with seeds that
>have only one cotyledon (as opposed to two cotyledons).
>
>2. There are about 10000 species under Gramineae, including food grains like
>rice and wheat, and also such plants as bamboo, sugarcane etc. As we all
>know, bamboos and sugarcane can grow very tall, with even wood-like
>formation in the stems, but they are nevertheless "grasses". Also, the
>scientific name of Munja grass is Saccharum munja or Saccharum bengalense or
>Saccharum sara (i.e. zara (Sanskrit)). I think bengalense is the preferred
>botanical name, as botanists tend to give priority to geography over
>language, although of course, there is no reason in these post-British-India
>times why Bengal should be thus specially priviliged! Anyway, I notice that
>the online Monier-Williams gives the botanical name Saccharum sara under
>both entries. If munja and zara are closely related (much like both Africans
>and Chinese are Homo sapiens), the ritual use of one instead of the other
>makes perfect sense, and there may be no botanical confusion at all in this
>case. Also, given that sugarcane also belongs to the same genus, i.e.
>Saccharum, I have no difficulty in believing that munja can grow rather
>tall.
>
>3. In the context of 1 above, the word t.r.na used to refer to
>coconut/areca/palm seems quite understandable. Common usage might consider
>t.r.na to be tuccha, but maybe not so for special usages. And if we think
>about it, both garden variety grass and coconut trees have many similarities
>- monocotyledonous seeds, blade like leaves, clusters of flowers,
>adventitious roots, no hard wood formation. The only major differing
>characteristic is that the clusters of flowers give way to clusters of
>medium to big sized nuts in coconut/areca/palm, while grass flowers do not.
>
>4. Having cleared the botany, may I suggest that instead of "stem", one
>should probably be thinking of translating as "pith"? This would make better
>sense in the context of having to remove multiple outer layers in order to
>expose the iSIkA. The interesting biological fact is that grass stems are
>usually jointed with a solid vertical joint, and solid horizontal joints at
>nodes. So they are hollow inside (think of bamboo flutes, but not so in the
>case of sugarcane), enclosing only AkAza. I don't know if munja is also
>ultimately hollow inside, but I would guess that it is. The comparison to
>the invisible Atman would then be absolutely perfect, both in the anugItA
>and in the pancadazI!
>
>5. Finally, for pictures of Saccharum munja, people working in the areas of
>water conservation and prevention of soil erosion may have them, or would

>know what sources to search. This and other grasses are being extensively
>studied in environmental programs in India and elsewhere. See for example
>www.vetiver.org <http://www.vetiver.org>  (vetiver is derived from Tamil
>veTTivEr)
>
Frits Staal

http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal




From jlc at CCR.JUSSIEU.FR  Sun Apr  7 12:24:52 2002
From: jlc at CCR.JUSSIEU.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 02 14:24:52 +0200
Subject: CTamil list moves to an institutional server
Message-ID: <161227070839.23782.13755722904784510598.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Liverpool Indology list members,

this is an annoucement that the CTamil (=Classical Tamil) list,
which was started on 2001 April 18
as a "younger sister list" to the Y-Indology list
(on the same Yahoo! server)
is from now onwards hosted by a UREC/CNRS server.

The CTamil list is a Forum for those with a special interest in Classical
Tamil .

The reasons for moving to an institutional server were that,
although we valued very much the initial one-year experience
of living on a Yahoo! server, some other list members
and myself were worried about the future stability (or instability)
of the quantity of data which comes, in the course of time,
to accumulate on these transient servers,
that are mostly supported by advertising.

We do wish to see the collection of posts on Classical Tamil
be usable as a reference tool on the web
with a not too short life span,
as the Liverpool Indology list has been since 1990
(if my memory does not betray me)

The new list home page is:
<http://www.services.cnrs.fr/wws/info/ctamil>

Detailed explaination about Subscription/Unsubscription
can be found at the following URL:
<http://www.services.cnrs.fr/wws/arc/ctamil/2002-04/msg00004.html>

Best wishes

-- Jean-Luc Chevillard
   (CNRS, University of Paris 7,
    Linguistics department,
     History of Linguistics Research Team [UMR 7597])
   <http://www.linguist.jussieu.fr/~chevilla/>




From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Wed Apr 10 00:28:28 2002
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 02 20:28:28 -0400
Subject: New books in Harvard Or. Series
Message-ID: <161227070841.23782.20788117556986117.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I am glad to announce a number of new publications.

HARVARD ORIENTAL SERIES   Vol. 59:

Samaveda Samhita of the Kauthuma School, with Padapatha and  the
Commentaries of Madhava, Bharatasvamin and Sayana, vol. ii:  Uttararcika
ed. by B.R. Sharma
Cambridge: Harvard Oriental Series  2001

***

A few months ago we (A.Wezler and undersigned, ed.s) have also released:

Thomas Oberlies,
Pali. A Grammar of the Language of the Theravada Tipitaka. With a
Concordance to Pischel's Grammatik der Prakrit-Sprachen.
Berlin/New York: de Gruyter 2001
[= vol. 3 of : Indian Philology and South Asian Studies, ed. by A. Wezler
and  M. Witzel ]
pp. 385
(eventually to be reprinted in India by Munshiram)

[vol. 4  is nearly ready: Epic Grammar by Th. Oberlies]

======================================================================

Currently in press and to be released this spring are:

HOS Vol. 60:  The Yogasastra of  Hemacandra:  a twelfth century handbook
of Svetambara Jainism, translated by Olle Quarnstr?m
pp.230   (release: late April)

HOS vol. 61:  Madhav M. Deshpande,
Recitational Permutations of the Saunakiya Atharvaveda.
pp. 470.
(release early May)

HOS  Opera Minora, vol. 4:
Atharvaveda-Paippalada, Kanda 5
edition, translation, commentary by
Alexander Lubotsky
pp. 250  (release early May)

<Also note that a critical  re-edition and translation of AVP 1 and 2 has
already been carried out by Th. Zehnder. -- More to come:  by A. Griffiths,
C.Lopez,  among others.>

--------

Later this spring:

HOS vol. 62. Iravatham Mahadevan,
Tamil-Brahmi and Early Vatteluttu Inscriptions (ca. 2nd century B.C. - 6th
century A.D). A critical edition with texts, transliteration, translation
and a detailed commentary.
========================================================
Michael Witzel
Department of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
2 Divinity Avenue, Cambridge MA 02138, USA

ph. 1- 617-496 2990 (also messages)
home page:  http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm




From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Wed Apr 10 13:43:16 2002
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 02 09:43:16 -0400
Subject: "Holy Cow" unbanned
Message-ID: <161227070846.23782.1323239063745319154.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

News from India:

Prof. D.N. Jha's book about beef eating in ancient and medieval India,

"The Holy Cow",  Delhi: Matrix  2001,

which was banned by a Hyderabad court last year has been  unbanned.

In the meantime, the London (UK) publisher Verso has published the book
last week
under the title "The Myth of the Holy Cow".

Enjoy!

========================================================
Michael Witzel
Department of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
2 Divinity Avenue, Cambridge MA 02138, USA

ph. 1- 617-496 2990 (also messages)
home page:  http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm




From A.Griffiths at LET.LEIDENUNIV.NL  Wed Apr 10 08:34:35 2002
From: A.Griffiths at LET.LEIDENUNIV.NL (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 02 10:34:35 +0200
Subject: AVP 1
In-Reply-To: <v04011703b8d8cf024e3f@[209.6.246.85]>
Message-ID: <161227070843.23782.7374818650274206207.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A small correction to Michael's happy tidings below, lest people be
disappointed: Thomas Zehnder's excellent work (Atharvaveda-Paippalaada, Buch
2, Text, ?bersetzung, Kommentar. Idstein [Schulz-Kirchner Verlag]. 1999 --
reviews by Mylius IIJ 43 [2000], 295-298; von Hin?ber ZDMG 151 [2001], 459;
detailed notes by myself forthcoming) in fact covers only AVP 2. Whatever
work he may have done on AVP 1 is and will almost certainly remain
unpublished.

Arlo Griffiths




> From: Michael Witzel <witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU>
> Reply-To: Indology <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:28:28 -0400
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Subject: New books in Harvard Or. Series
> 
> I am glad to announce a number of new publications.
> 
> HARVARD ORIENTAL SERIES   Vol. 59:
> 
> Samaveda Samhita of the Kauthuma School, with Padapatha and  the
> Commentaries of Madhava, Bharatasvamin and Sayana, vol. ii:  Uttararcika
> ed. by B.R. Sharma
> Cambridge: Harvard Oriental Series  2001
> 
> ***
> 
> A few months ago we (A.Wezler and undersigned, ed.s) have also released:
> 
> Thomas Oberlies,
> Pali. A Grammar of the Language of the Theravada Tipitaka. With a
> Concordance to Pischel's Grammatik der Prakrit-Sprachen.
> Berlin/New York: de Gruyter 2001
> [= vol. 3 of : Indian Philology and South Asian Studies, ed. by A. Wezler
> and  M. Witzel ]
> pp. 385
> (eventually to be reprinted in India by Munshiram)
> 
> [vol. 4  is nearly ready: Epic Grammar by Th. Oberlies]
> 
> ======================================================================
> 
> Currently in press and to be released this spring are:
> 
> HOS Vol. 60:  The Yogasastra of  Hemacandra:  a twelfth century handbook
> of Svetambara Jainism, translated by Olle Quarnstr?m
> pp.230   (release: late April)
> 
> HOS vol. 61:  Madhav M. Deshpande,
> Recitational Permutations of the Saunakiya Atharvaveda.
> pp. 470.
> (release early May)
> 
> HOS  Opera Minora, vol. 4:
> Atharvaveda-Paippalada, Kanda 5
> edition, translation, commentary by
> Alexander Lubotsky
> pp. 250  (release early May)
> 
> <Also note that a critical  re-edition and translation of AVP 1 and 2 has
> already been carried out by Th. Zehnder. -- More to come:  by A. Griffiths,
> C.Lopez,  among others.>
> 
> --------
> 
> Later this spring:
> 
> HOS vol. 62. Iravatham Mahadevan,
> Tamil-Brahmi and Early Vatteluttu Inscriptions (ca. 2nd century B.C. - 6th
> century A.D). A critical edition with texts, transliteration, translation
> and a detailed commentary.
> ========================================================
> Michael Witzel
> Department of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
> 2 Divinity Avenue, Cambridge MA 02138, USA
> 
> ph. 1- 617-496 2990 (also messages)
> home page:  http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm




From jonathan.silk at YALE.EDU  Wed Apr 10 16:24:53 2002
From: jonathan.silk at YALE.EDU (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 02 12:24:53 -0400
Subject: zariira
Message-ID: <161227070851.23782.18050707193017909774.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Colleagues:

Is there some general agreement on the etymology of the word zariira?
For reasons I do not entirely understand, there seem to be two roots
traditionally associated with the word, zri and zRR (boy, that comes
out looking weird in this system!). Mayrhoffer if I understand him
correctly seems to favor the latter.  Any thoughts or references?

many thanks, jonathan
--

For quicker response these days please copy your reply to kinu at aol.com


Jonathan Silk

jonathan.silk at yale.edu

Dept. of Religious Studies
Box 208287
Yale University
New Haven CT 06520-8287
USA

tel. 203-432-0828
fax. 203-432-7844




From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Wed Apr 10 19:15:32 2002
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 02 15:15:32 -0400
Subject: zariira
In-Reply-To: <p05100308b8da17005037@[130.132.185.171]>
Message-ID: <161227070853.23782.8459893168834232151.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Traditionally the word zariira is derived from the root zRR (which is
listed in the sense of hi.msana "injure", z.r.naati, past pple ziir.na) by
adding an affix  -iiran, cf. the U.naadisuutra 4.30:
kRR-zRR-pRR-ka.ti-pa.ti-zau.ti-bhya.h iiran.  The fact that this is
accounted for by the U.naadisuutra also means that Panini himself
considered this word as an underived nominal.  Yaaska's Nirukta (2.16) also
derives zariira the same way: zariiram z.r.naate.h

                                                Madhav Deshpande

--On Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:24 PM -0400 Jonathan Silk
<jonathan.silk at YALE.EDU> wrote:

> Colleagues:
>
> Is there some general agreement on the etymology of the word zariira?
> For reasons I do not entirely understand, there seem to be two roots
> traditionally associated with the word, zri and zRR (boy, that comes
> out looking weird in this system!). Mayrhoffer if I understand him
> correctly seems to favor the latter.  Any thoughts or references?
>
> many thanks, jonathan
> --
>
> For quicker response these days please copy your reply to kinu at aol.com
>
>
> Jonathan Silk
>
> jonathan.silk at yale.edu
>
> Dept. of Religious Studies
> Box 208287
> Yale University
> New Haven CT 06520-8287
> USA
>
> tel. 203-432-0828
> fax. 203-432-7844




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Wed Apr 10 16:05:28 2002
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 02 17:05:28 +0100
Subject: Strange message
In-Reply-To: <2002Apr10.194950@YV1041.spb.edu>
Message-ID: <161227070849.23782.1506361314435035739.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Your email fault caused all messages from INDOLOGY to your account to
bounce back, creating a problem in Liverpool.  This computer behaviour
(nothing to do with you personally) is tolerated for a limited period by
the software, but after some days the listserv closes your subscription,
since it is the only way to stop a mounting pile of error messages.

Again: it's nothing personal.  Just the INDOLOGY software and its
administrators (Chris Wooff) doing what is, after all, reasonable.

Now that your email system is working normally again, we can reinstate
your membership without any problem.

Best,
Dominik

--
Dr Dominik Wujastyk
Wellcome Trust Senior Research Fellow
Wellcome Centre for the History of Medicine at UCL
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/histmed/


On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Yaroslav Vassilkov wrote:

> Dear Dominik,
>       my e-mail programm for several days was out of order, and the
> first message I recieved after it had been mended was a letter from
> the List server informing me about my removal from the List. Could not you explain me
> what goes on? Has INDOLOGY been closed? Or is it just a mistake? I did not send any
> contribution to the List since March 30 and certainly could not
> misbehave in any way to deserve a punishment of that kind.
> Who is Mr. Chris Wooff, who had removed my name from the List, as I was told?
> Many thanks in advance for an explanation.
> All the best
> Yaroslav
>
> P.C. I hope the strange message is in the Attachement.
> ---
> Yaroslav Vassilkov (yavass at YV1041.spb.edu)
> Institute of Oriental Studies
> Wed, 10 Apr 102 19:36 +0300 MSK




From asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Fri Apr 12 16:37:38 2002
From: asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Andrew Glass)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 02 09:37:38 -0700
Subject: sanskrit text
Message-ID: <161227070861.23782.8058864615427022735.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The conjuncts will work properly with IE 6 if you have Windows XP or Office
XP installed.
This is because the software that reads Devanagari encoding with virama and
displays conjuncts only shipped with these versions on the windows platform.

Andrew Glass

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dominik Wujastyk" <ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK>
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: sanskrit text


> Dear Yves,
>
> Your Dutavakya encoding using Unicode Devanagari is truly remarkable.
> I've uploaded it to
>
>   http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/bhasa/
>
> and also as an ftp-able file from the INDOLOGY ftp archive, as
> bhasa-dutavakya.zip (including all the TEI files).
>
> When I view the xml file with MS IE 6, the conjunct consonants don't work
> properly.  When I use Opera 6.01, everything looks very fine (and
> different font).
>
> This is a pathbreaking piece of encoding.  Thank you very much indeed.
>
> --
> Dr Dominik Wujastyk
> Wellcome Trust Senior Research Fellow
> Wellcome Centre for the History of Medicine at UCL
> http://www.ucl.ac.uk/histmed/
>




From mahesrajpant at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Apr 12 11:31:03 2002
From: mahesrajpant at HOTMAIL.COM (Mahes Raj Pant)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 02 11:31:03 +0000
Subject: Dinakhaya-sam.kraanti
Message-ID: <161227070855.23782.1915808287168079964.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List Members

I have come across a term Dinakhayasam.kraanti in a mid-sixteenth century
Nepalese inscription. As we know, there are 12 sam.kraanti-s in a year and
the word in question means the passage of the sun from one ra.shi to the
next. We also know that a sam.kraanti is prefixed either with the name of a
zodiac or of a month and this helps us in identifying a month according to
the solar reckoning.
>?From the context of the inscription I can say that the term is expressive of
the Makarasam.kraanti. I am just wondering why it is called Dinakshaya. I
think it has nothing to do with the literal meaning of dinakhaya. Could you
tell me what this means in the present context and whether the term is
attested elsewhere or not.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Mahes Raj Pant


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.




From mahesrajpant at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Apr 12 13:09:06 2002
From: mahesrajpant at HOTMAIL.COM (Mahes Raj Pant)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 02 13:09:06 +0000
Subject: Once more dinakshaya-sam.kraanti
Message-ID: <161227070859.23782.8052487836969641334.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List Members

just checking once more the photo of the inscription I found that the
correct reading is dinakshaya. If you translate it literally, needless to
point out, it means 'day-decline', as Monier-Williams does. Traditionally,
the udag-ayana starts on the day of the Makara- sam.kraanti and this
sam.kranti this year occured on 14 January. Due to the precession of the
equinoxes the makara-sam.kraanti is observed these days 23 days behind, as
Kane has noticed. Is not correct that when winter solstice occures days
start being longer day by day?

Mahes Raj Pant

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Fri Apr 12 12:26:55 2002
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 02 13:26:55 +0100
Subject: sanskrit text
In-Reply-To: <B8DB6FD8.17D%ycodet@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <161227070857.23782.16525182221611868211.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Yves,

Your Dutavakya encoding using Unicode Devanagari is truly remarkable.
I've uploaded it to

  http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/bhasa/

and also as an ftp-able file from the INDOLOGY ftp archive, as
bhasa-dutavakya.zip (including all the TEI files).

When I view the xml file with MS IE 6, the conjunct consonants don't work
properly.  When I use Opera 6.01, everything looks very fine (and
different font).

This is a pathbreaking piece of encoding.  Thank you very much indeed.

--
Dr Dominik Wujastyk
Wellcome Trust Senior Research Fellow
Wellcome Centre for the History of Medicine at UCL
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/histmed/




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Fri Apr 12 17:46:42 2002
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 02 18:46:42 +0100
Subject: sanskrit text
In-Reply-To: <20020412170134.GB5452@deepthought>
Message-ID: <161227070865.23782.8133252282352491263.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Well, I've got the Arial Unicode, but not XP or Office.  Apparently Opera
6.1 has the necessary glyph rendering built into it.  (It appears to be
better than IE 6 at handling XML in other respects too; and there's a
Linux version.)  That explains why things look wrong with IE but right
with Opera, on my workstation.

D


On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, Stefan Baums wrote:

> On Friday, 12 April 2002, Andrew Glass wrote:
>
> > This is because the software that reads Devanagari encoding with virama and
> > displays conjuncts only shipped with these versions on the windows platform.
>
> Plus you need an OpenType font containing mappings from Unicode code
> point combinations to conjunct glyphs, and one such is the _new_ Arial
> Unicode that comes with Office XP (not sure whether it is also
> included in mere Windows XP).
>
> Stefan
>
> --
> Stefan Baums
> Asien-Instituttet
> K?benhavns Universitet
>




From sbaums at GMX.NET  Fri Apr 12 17:01:34 2002
From: sbaums at GMX.NET (Stefan Baums)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 02 19:01:34 +0200
Subject: sanskrit text
In-Reply-To: <004101c1e240$85f4ecd0$b731e40c@c1526004a>
Message-ID: <161227070863.23782.12582877067587733986.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Friday, 12 April 2002, Andrew Glass wrote:

> This is because the software that reads Devanagari encoding with virama and
> displays conjuncts only shipped with these versions on the windows platform.

Plus you need an OpenType font containing mappings from Unicode code
point combinations to conjunct glyphs, and one such is the _new_ Arial
Unicode that comes with Office XP (not sure whether it is also
included in mere Windows XP).

Stefan

--
Stefan Baums
Asien-Instituttet
K?benhavns Universitet




From A.Fort at TCU.EDU  Sat Apr 13 00:33:09 2002
From: A.Fort at TCU.EDU (Fort, Andrew)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 02 19:33:09 -0500
Subject: an inquiry
Message-ID: <161227070868.23782.6222623331436174549.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A colleague of mine is doing some research on E. M, Forster, and is looking for information on a book he mentions in a December 1944 BBC broadcast:  a then recent translation, in India, of Kusti Prayers by Piloo Nanavutty, a member of the Parsi community in Bombay.  She checked WorldCat and the British Library catalogue, but couldn't find the Indian publishing details (city, publisher, date).  Can anyone recommend a good place to get this information?  Thanks.  Andy Fort

Andrew O. Fort, Professor of Religion
TCU Box 298100  Fort Worth TX  76129
a.fort at tcu.edu  (817) 257-6448
http://enterprise.is.tcu.edu/~afort
  




From yavass at YV1041.SPB.EDU  Sat Apr 13 08:43:13 2002
From: yavass at YV1041.SPB.EDU (Yaroslav Vassilkov)
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 02 11:43:13 +0300
Subject: Stem of munja grass
In-Reply-To: <200204062026.g36KQmP04203@socrates.Berkeley.EDU>
Message-ID: <161227070870.23782.10514487080721405031.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

        Many belated thanks to Ashok Aklujkar, Vidyasankar Sundaresan and
Frits Staal for their illuminating discussion of the munja plant and
its structure. Each one of their contributions is a "print-out must"
for me.
        Dr. Vidyasankar Sundaresan's suggestion that iSIkA is rather a "pith"
than a "stem" is corroborated, as it seems, by RAmakRSNa's gloss in
his commentary on VidyAraNya's PancadazI: iSIkA - garbhastham komalam tRNam
(as quoted by Ashok Aklujkar). It must be this tender pith hidden inside the munja
plant that used to be compared with Atman. But I doubt that tertium comparationis
in this case was the invisibility. A true yogin *sees* the Atman, first in itself
and then in all living beings in the same way as a man who once *saw* iSIkA inside
a munja (in situ, if I may say so), is able from now on to *see* it in another sample
of the same species.
       And then there is one more question which still remains open for me:
was iSIkA identical, or not, with those long twigs (I can not find at the
moment a better word) which were being
extracted from munja plants and (probably, after some processing)
used for weaving baskets, mats, making girdles etc.?
        Many thanks once again to all participants of this discussion.

                                                        Yaroslav Vassilkov



---
Yaroslav Vassilkov (yavass at YV1041.spb.edu)
Institute of Oriental Studies
Sat, 13 Apr 102 11:04 +0300 MSK




From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU  Sun Apr 14 13:31:21 2002
From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 02 08:31:21 -0500
Subject: iijaanaa bahubhir yaj~nair
In-Reply-To: <F127gAGeU75iMaUfOIm000017bf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227070876.23782.16615673257021132285.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

dRSTipuutam nyaset paadam [a variant of your # 1] is Manu 6.46. Also
in Visnu Smriti 96.14.



>Dear List Members,
>
>Could you help me in locating the following verse (quoted in
>Vaacaspatimisra?s Tattvasamiik.saa):
>
>iijaanaa bahubhir yaj~nair braahma.naa vedapaaragaa.h|
>?saastra.ni cet pramaa.na.m syur yaataas te paramaa.m gatim||
>
>Might any member know the source of the following quotations:
>
>1. d.r.s.tipuuta.m pada.m nyaset
>2. (ta/ya)thaa dravyaantara.m chaayaa ruupabhedasamaa?srayam|
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Diwakar Acharya
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com




From acharyadiwakar at HOTMAIL.COM  Sun Apr 14 06:19:48 2002
From: acharyadiwakar at HOTMAIL.COM (diwakar acharya)
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 02 12:04:48 +0545
Subject: iijaanaa bahubhir yaj~nair
Message-ID: <161227070873.23782.5646613075000642227.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List Members,

Could you help me in locating the following verse (quoted in
Vaacaspatimisra?s Tattvasamiik.saa):

iijaanaa bahubhir yaj~nair braahma.naa vedapaaragaa.h|
?saastra.ni cet pramaa.na.m syur yaataas te paramaa.m gatim||

Might any member know the source of the following quotations:

1. d.r.s.tipuuta.m pada.m nyaset
2. (ta/ya)thaa dravyaantara.m chaayaa ruupabhedasamaa?srayam|

Thanks in advance

Diwakar Acharya




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com




From reimann at UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU  Mon Apr 15 06:28:25 2002
From: reimann at UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann)
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 02 23:28:25 -0700
Subject: Once more dinakshaya-sam.kraanti
In-Reply-To: <F1135KofKc9gbZave3o00012468@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227070879.23782.8694238995200513327.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

At 01:09 PM 04/12/2002 +0000, Mahes Raj Pant wrote:

> Is not correct that when winter solstice occures days
>start being longer day by day?

Yes, that is correct. The day of the winter solstice is the shortest day (and
the longest night) of the year. From there until the summer solstice, days get
longer and nights shorter.
On the day of the winter solstice the point of sunrise is as far to the south,
that is to the right, of an observer looking East as it gets; the Sun then
starts rising a little bit more to the north, that is to the left, every day
until it reaches its northernmost point of sunrise in the summer solstice (the
longest day and the shortest night).That is why the period from winter to
summer solstice is callled "the movement towards the north,"
uttarAyaNa/udagAyana; while that from the summer to the winter solstice is the
"movement towards the south," dakSiNAyana. This is so in the northern
hemisphere.

By the way, the point of sunrise doesn't move at the same speed throughout the
year, it moves faster around the equinoxes (when the Sun rises due East) and
slows almost to a standstill (sol-stitium, in Latin) as it approaches the
solstices. An understanding of this seems to be reflected in a verse of the
MahAbhArata (13.143.4) in which BhISma, while waiting for the Sun to turn
north
(that is, for the winter solstice to arrive) points out that the Sun is not
moving fast, implying that the time of the solstice is near.

Best,

Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann 




From athr at LOC.GOV  Mon Apr 15 17:51:14 2002
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 02 13:51:14 -0400
Subject: The Library of Congress has a record of Piloo Nanavutty doing the              Kusti prayers.  Are you sure there
Message-ID: <161227070888.23782.9087988681309227680.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The Library of Congress has a record of Piloo Nanavutty doing the Kusti
prayers.  Are you sure there was also a book?

LC Control Number:       2001660322
Type of Material:        Nonmusic Sound Recording
Personal Name:           Nanavutty, Piloo. prf
Main Title:              Kusti prayers (Zoroastrian) [sound
recording].
Published/Created:       1946.
Related Names:           Library of Congress.
Description:             2 sound discs : analog, 33 1/3 rpm ; 16 in.
Summary:                 Miss Nanavutty reads the Kusti prayers and
then explains the  meaning in English. These are the prayers taught to
all                             children of the Zoroastrian faith in
order to introduce them to                             the religion. She
continues with chanting in Hindu, songs                            known
as bhajans and written by Indian mystics and in Urdu,
    Sufi songs about the Sikh religion.
Notes:                   Original LWO for discs: 927.
                         Recorded May 14, 1946, in Studio A, Recording
Laboratory, Library of Congress.
                         Preservation master. Washington, D.C. :
Library of Congress Magnetic Recording Laboratory, 1968. On 1 sound tape
reel :                             analog, 7 1/2 ips, 2 track, mono. ;
10 in.
Subjects:                Zoroastrianism.
                         Sikhism.
                         Bhajans, Hindi.
                         Sufi meditations.
LC Classification:       LWO 5293, r14B1-4 (preservation master)
CALL NUMBER:             LWO 5293, r14 (preservation master)
-- Request in:           Recorded Sound Reference Center (Madison,
LM113)

Allen Thrasher
Southern Asia Section
Library of Congress




From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU  Mon Apr 15 19:37:11 2002
From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 02 14:37:11 -0500
Subject: Manu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.44.0204151936190.1620-100000@Anat-lws119.anat.ucl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <161227070883.23782.17685197560155499174.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Friends:

This is an unusual request, but since an edition is intended to be
USEFUL to the readers, I thought I would canvas your opinions.

As many of you know, I am in the final stages of preparing the
critical edition of the Manava Dharmasastra. The question is whether
to publish it in a single but large volume, or to divide it into two
volumes. I have to resolve this in the next month or two, because the
placing of the notes will be determined by this decision. The
edition, translation, critical apparatus, notes, indices, etc will
run to approximately 1200 pages. I have been told that it is
technically possible to produce a volume with that many pages.

If it is divided into two volumes, one will contain the text and the
other the translation, with the rest divided between the two.

The question is whether two volumes or a single volume would serve
the reader best. I would very much appreciate your thoughts and your
vote. Thanks.

Patrick




From jfstaal at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU  Mon Apr 15 22:54:34 2002
From: jfstaal at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (Frits Staal)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 02 15:54:34 -0700
Subject: Manu
In-Reply-To: <p0510036cb8e0db3e3e54@[216.62.201.176]>
Message-ID: <161227070890.23782.13132948137651768593.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Patrick,

This may be of interest to others so I respond to your query thru
"Indology" since I have an answer (or opinion).

As you know, I published two very large volumes called AGNI. Years later, I
asked the then head of Univ. of California Press (Phil Lilienthal) if he
would have done it differently if his press had published the books. He
answered right away: "We would never publish two such large volumes; very
inconvenient for the user. I would have advised to turn it into four."

Years of lugging around one or two of those huge tomes have added substance
to my conviction that he was absolutely right!

Come to think of it, the publisher of  the three volume Apte dictionary
also did the same though Monier-Williams OUP had not done so. But MW was
earlier I believe so Apte editors leant from the earlier mistake.

The only reason to the contrary is if you were interested in developing
your arms.

As for "votes," it is better to follow reasons, in my opinion; but in the
final resort: do as you like!

best,

FritsAt 02:37 PM 4/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Friends:
>
>This is an unusual request, but since an edition is intended to be
>USEFUL to the readers, I thought I would canvas your opinions.
>
>As many of you know, I am in the final stages of preparing the
>critical edition of the Manava Dharmasastra. The question is whether
>to publish it in a single but large volume, or to divide it into two
>volumes. I have to resolve this in the next month or two, because the
>placing of the notes will be determined by this decision. The
>edition, translation, critical apparatus, notes, indices, etc will
>run to approximately 1200 pages. I have been told that it is
>technically possible to produce a volume with that many pages.
>
>If it is divided into two volumes, one will contain the text and the
>other the translation, with the rest divided between the two.
>
>The question is whether two volumes or a single volume would serve
>the reader best. I would very much appreciate your thoughts and your
>vote. Thanks.
>
>Patrick
>
Frits Staal

http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Tue Apr 16 00:04:52 2002
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 02 18:04:52 -0600
Subject: Manu
Message-ID: <161227070894.23782.8428576841583930654.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

If I may offer a humble suggestion--it could be about time for publishers to
offer these massive texts on CD-ROM as well as in hard copy.  A CD is so
much easier to cart about and to store than printed volumes.
Joanna Kirkpatrick
---------------------------------------
 "We would never publish two such large volumes; very
> inconvenient for the user. I would have advised to turn it into four."
>
> Years of lugging around one or two of those huge tomes have added
substance
> to my conviction that he was absolutely right!




From asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Tue Apr 16 01:49:03 2002
From: asg at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Andrew Glass)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 02 18:49:03 -0700
Subject: Manu
Message-ID: <161227070898.23782.202256945528698341.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

My humble opinion,

You should do what works best for you, since it is clear from the recent
exchange on the subject you will inevitably disappoint some and please
others.

Having said that, as someone who has done some typesetting, I enjoy the
challenge of comlex layouts, such as have been proposed. However, with 1200
pages, I think it would be rather more costly to your publishers (and
therefore to your readers), to lay out text, translation and notes on facing
pages.

With two (or more) volumes, and a big desk, one can acheive the same effect
as facing pages, by having both volumes open at the same time. But this
won't help those who like to read on the bus.

And for what its worth, I'm very happy that Monier Williams comes in a
single volume.

asg

----- Original Message -----
From: "Birgit Kellner" <birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT>
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: Manu


> My humble opinion:
>
> - two volumes, text in one, translation in the other.
>
> Or:
>
> - text on one page, translation on the adjacent page (a nightmare in terms
> of layouting unless you have omnipotent software!).
>
> Having half the text/translation in one and the second half in the other
is
> inconvenient, as the reader would have to constantly go back and forth in
> one and the same book. I suppose publishing text and translation in
> separate volumes is the most convenient solution for the reader, and also
> the most convenient solution in terms of doing the layout.
>
>
> > At 02:37  15/04/02 -0500, Patrick Olivelle wrote:
> >> Friends:
> >>
> >> This is an unusual request, but since an edition is intended to be
> >> USEFUL to the readers, I thought I would canvas your opinions.
> >>
> >> As many of you know, I am in the final stages of preparing the
> >> critical edition of the Manava Dharmasastra. The question is whether
> >> to publish it in a single but large volume, or to divide it into two
> >> volumes. I have to resolve this in the next month or two, because the
> >> placing of the notes will be determined by this decision. The
> >> edition, translation, critical apparatus, notes, indices, etc will
> >> run to approximately 1200 pages. I have been told that it is
> >> technically possible to produce a volume with that many pages.
> >>
> >> If it is divided into two volumes, one will contain the text and the
> >> other the translation, with the rest divided between the two.
> >>
> >> The question is whether two volumes or a single volume would serve
> >> the reader best. I would very much appreciate your thoughts and your
> >> vote. Thanks.
> >>
> >> Patrick
>
> -----------------------------------
> Best regards,
>
> Birgit Kellner
> Institute for South Asian, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies
> Vienna University
>




From reimann at UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU  Tue Apr 16 01:51:25 2002
From: reimann at UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 02 18:51:25 -0700
Subject: Manu
In-Reply-To: <p0510036cb8e0db3e3e54@[216.62.201.176]>
Message-ID: <161227070900.23782.2895828114052941162.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Patrick,

One more vote.
In practical terms, two volumes seems the reasonable option. That way one can
choose to carry around either only the text (with the apparatus) or the
translation (with footnotes). I agree with Lars Martin that it is useful to
have the text on one side of the page and the translation on the other but, in
this case, it's probably not a good idea.

The CD Rom (with search capabilities) is, of course, also an excellent
suggestion, but in addition to, not instead of the printed version.
_________________

At 02:37 PM 04/15/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Friends:
>
>This is an unusual request, but since an edition is intended to be
>USEFUL to the readers, I thought I would canvas your opinions.




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Mon Apr 15 18:44:20 2002
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 02 19:44:20 +0100
Subject: New light on tailapaayin
Message-ID: <161227070881.23782.6624783384686535798.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Some of you may remember that in 1996 I was translating a list of birds in
the Kasyapasamhita, and came across "tailapaayin" which we decided must be
a cockroach.

I've just had the idea of checking for "cockroach" in the index of Dave's
classic work "Birds in Sanskrit Literature", and it turns out that there
are late MIA terms which seem certainly cognate with tailapaayin, and
which mean Spotted Munia (p.85), Oily Starlings and both Himalayan and
Finsch's Starlings (Hindi: telorii, teliyaa mainaa).

DW

--
Dr Dominik Wujastyk
Wellcome Trust Senior Research Fellow
Wellcome Centre for the History of Medicine at UCL
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/histmed/




From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO  Mon Apr 15 19:53:41 2002
From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 02 21:53:41 +0200
Subject: SV: Manu
Message-ID: <161227070886.23782.7163091194178754197.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Patrick Olivelle [SMTP:jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU] skrev 15. april 2002 21:37:
> If it is divided into two volumes, one will contain the text and the
> other the translation, with the rest divided between the two.
>
> The question is whether two volumes or a single volume would serve
> the reader best. I would very much appreciate your thoughts and your
> vote. Thanks.

Personally, I would prefer a single volume with Skt text to the left and
the translation to the right (opposing pages), and with the notes etc. at
the bottom of the page. In other words: all info relevant to a given
verse/set of verses immediately available to the eye. It may make the page
look cluttered, but it is infinitely more practical than having two
volumes, which involves a more laborious shift of focus.

Good luck!

Lars Martin Fosse

Dr. art. Lars Martin Fosse
Haugerudvn. 76, H0102,
0674 Oslo
Norway
Phone: +47 22 32 12 19
Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45
Fax 1:  +47 22 32 12 19
Fax 2:  +47 85 02 12 50 (InFax)
Email: lmfosse at online.no




From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT  Tue Apr 16 00:07:30 2002
From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 02 02:07:30 +0200
Subject: Manu
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020416092857.024504e0@cres.anu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <161227070896.23782.13312833181794815367.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

My humble opinion:

- two volumes, text in one, translation in the other.

Or:

- text on one page, translation on the adjacent page (a nightmare in terms
of layouting unless you have omnipotent software!).

Having half the text/translation in one and the second half in the other is
inconvenient, as the reader would have to constantly go back and forth in
one and the same book. I suppose publishing text and translation in
separate volumes is the most convenient solution for the reader, and also
the most convenient solution in terms of doing the layout.


> At 02:37  15/04/02 -0500, Patrick Olivelle wrote:
>> Friends:
>>
>> This is an unusual request, but since an edition is intended to be
>> USEFUL to the readers, I thought I would canvas your opinions.
>>
>> As many of you know, I am in the final stages of preparing the
>> critical edition of the Manava Dharmasastra. The question is whether
>> to publish it in a single but large volume, or to divide it into two
>> volumes. I have to resolve this in the next month or two, because the
>> placing of the notes will be determined by this decision. The
>> edition, translation, critical apparatus, notes, indices, etc will
>> run to approximately 1200 pages. I have been told that it is
>> technically possible to produce a volume with that many pages.
>>
>> If it is divided into two volumes, one will contain the text and the
>> other the translation, with the rest divided between the two.
>>
>> The question is whether two volumes or a single volume would serve
>> the reader best. I would very much appreciate your thoughts and your
>> vote. Thanks.
>>
>> Patrick

-----------------------------------
Best regards,

Birgit Kellner
Institute for South Asian, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies
Vienna University




From mccomas at CRES.ANU.EDU.AU  Mon Apr 15 23:36:45 2002
From: mccomas at CRES.ANU.EDU.AU (mccomas)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 02 09:36:45 +1000
Subject: Manu
In-Reply-To: <p0510036cb8e0db3e3e54@[216.62.201.176]>
Message-ID: <161227070892.23782.6986774632764550277.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

May I offer an opinion on Manu?

As a potential user, I like to have all the relevant material open in the
one place. Personally, I prefer interlinear/inter-paragraph texts with
footnotes. Perhaps the bulk of the critical apparatus will not allow this.
What about two 600-page volumes with with half the text/translation
together in each?

For what is is worth, I have put up a completely uncritical bilingual
version of Manu at

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mooncharts/manu/index.html

Here is a quick-and-easy screen grab of what I have done:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mooncharts/manu/screenimage.gif

With greetings

McComas

At 02:37  15/04/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Friends:
>
>This is an unusual request, but since an edition is intended to be
>USEFUL to the readers, I thought I would canvas your opinions.
>
>As many of you know, I am in the final stages of preparing the
>critical edition of the Manava Dharmasastra. The question is whether
>to publish it in a single but large volume, or to divide it into two
>volumes. I have to resolve this in the next month or two, because the
>placing of the notes will be determined by this decision. The
>edition, translation, critical apparatus, notes, indices, etc will
>run to approximately 1200 pages. I have been told that it is
>technically possible to produce a volume with that many pages.
>
>If it is divided into two volumes, one will contain the text and the
>other the translation, with the rest divided between the two.
>
>The question is whether two volumes or a single volume would serve
>the reader best. I would very much appreciate your thoughts and your
>vote. Thanks.
>
>Patrick




From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO  Tue Apr 16 08:42:26 2002
From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 02 10:42:26 +0200
Subject: SV: Manu
Message-ID: <161227070902.23782.7156748123629571950.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

jkirk [SMTP:jkirk at SPRO.NET] skrev 16. april 2002 02:05:
> If I may offer a humble suggestion--it could be about time for publishers
to
> offer these massive texts on CD-ROM as well as in hard copy.  A CD is so
> much easier to cart about and to store than printed volumes.
> Joanna Kirkpatrick

I would like to second that opinion: both book (one way or the other) and a
CD. Your publisher might want to decide if they should be sold separately
or as a package.

Lars Martin



Dr. art. Lars Martin Fosse
Haugerudvn. 76, H0102,
0674 Oslo
Norway
Phone: +47 22 32 12 19
Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45
Fax 1:  +47 22 32 12 19
Fax 2:  +47 85 02 12 50 (InFax)
Email: lmfosse at online.no




From mahesrajpant at HOTMAIL.COM  Wed Apr 17 08:44:40 2002
From: mahesrajpant at HOTMAIL.COM (Mahes Raj Pant)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 02 08:44:40 +0000
Subject: Again Dinakshya-sam.kraanti
Message-ID: <161227070904.23782.13583557094819181150.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

At 23:28:25  Sun,14 APr 2002 -0700, Luis Gonzalez-Reimann wrote:

>The day of the winter solstice is the shortest day (and the longest >night)
>of the year.

Thus I think the meaning of the appelation dinakhaya-sam.kraanti to the
Makara-sam.kraanti is intelligible. Now only remains to be seen whether the
word under scrutiny is attested in the Dharmashaastra literature.

Meantime, Dr Harry Spier endeavoured to make me understand the term basing
himself on jyautisha. Many thanks.

Mahes Raj Pant



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com




From jl6 at SOAS.AC.UK  Wed Apr 17 13:27:54 2002
From: jl6 at SOAS.AC.UK (Julia Leslie)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 02 14:27:54 +0100
Subject: Manu
In-Reply-To: <p0510036cb8e0db3e3e54@[216.62.201.176]>
Message-ID: <161227070906.23782.14929120063038130824.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Patrick,

After reading the exchanges on this, my vote is for two volumes: text
in one, translation in the other.

Good luck!

Julia




Dr I J Leslie
Department of the Study of Religions
SOAS




From athr at LOC.GOV  Wed Apr 17 19:42:16 2002
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 02 15:42:16 -0400
Subject: Yamagita in Nepal
Message-ID: <161227070908.23782.7456861586174532842.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The Library of Congress has just been given a 12 ff. manuscript
apparently missing at least one final page.  There is no final colophon
and the last p. seems to end in the middle of Sloka 44.  In the margins
with the folio numbers is the abbreviation Ya. GI.

The ms begins: ZrIgaNezAya namaH// //ZrIyamAya namaH// //duttagachanti
bhUrloke. vaiSNavAnAM parittejet//vaiSNavAnAM anAcAri. Zighram ca
KathitaM prabhU//1//yamarAjAle AgyAganyA. (ryA? tyA?) hedujaho.
manuSyelokamAjAyeraheravicAragarajovaiSNadharmAtmAchantimanuSyekananalpAvaherdApaninahera//1
(sic)//

The periods represent dots between two letters, halfway down from the
ZirorekhA.

F. 12 seems to include a phalastuti of a YamagItA.  The phrase
yamarAjAle AgyAganyA. (ryA? tyA?), included above, occurs repeatedly in
the book.

The donor knows nothing about the ms except that it was from Manang,
Nepal, and is supposed to be from around 1775.

The text is clearly in some other language than Sanskrit.

Does anyone know anything about Yamagitas from Nepal?

Thanks,

Allen Thrasher
Library of Congress




From athr at LOC.GOV  Thu Apr 18 17:27:33 2002
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 02 13:27:33 -0400
Subject: Yamagita in Nepal
Message-ID: <161227070912.23782.6136408331723835837.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks for the tips, Michael.  I will have a closer look to see if parts
look Sino-Tibetan rather than Indo-Aryan.  I suppose the phrase
YamarAjA... could be taken over bodily from Nepali in Bhote.

Allen

>>> witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU 04/18/02 09:48PM >>>
It is in (older) Nepali:   yamarAjA-le AgyA garyA  "Yamaraja gave the
order..."  etc. etc.
You could ask Ted Riccardi to take a look at it.

Manang, Tibetan (South Tibetan dialect, "Bhote") speaking and high up
in
the Himalayas,  is a bit unsual for such a text, but of course not
impossible: the Manangis  are great traders, all the way to SE Asia,
and
have a "firman" (Lal Mohar) for that since about the time the MS is
supposed to have been written.

MW.


>The ms begins: ZrIgaNezAya namaH// //ZrIyamAya namaH//
//duttagachanti
>bhUrloke. vaiSNavAnAM parittejet//vaiSNavAnAM anAcAri. Zighram ca
>KathitaM prabhU//1//yamarAjAle AgyAganyA. (ryA? tyA?) hedujaho.
>manuSyelokamAjAyeraheravicAragarajovaiSNadharmAtmAchantimanuSyekananalpAvaherdA
>paninahera//1
>(sic)//
========================================================
Michael Witzel
Department of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
2 Divinity Avenue, Cambridge MA 02138, USA

ph. 1- 617-496 2990 (also messages)
home page:  http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm




From athr at LOC.GOV  Thu Apr 18 19:31:34 2002
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 02 15:31:34 -0400
Subject: Yamagita in Nepal
Message-ID: <161227070916.23782.6223916007023894920.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Noted.  Makes life easier though it would have been cool to have a
Manang/Bhote language ms.

AT

>>> Michael Witzel <witzel at fas.harvard.edu> 04/18/02 03:14PM >>>
Sorry, I should have said that the rest of the quote that you sent
(minus
the intro) ALSO is in Nepali.

MW




From athr at LOC.GOV  Thu Apr 18 19:32:35 2002
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 02 15:32:35 -0400
Subject: Yamagita in Nepal
Message-ID: <161227070918.23782.10008685993619079404.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks, but I think we can catalog it without that.

Allen

>>> jneuss at ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE 04/18/02 02:47PM >>>
I don't know whether this helps, but the records of the Nepal German
Manuscript Preservation Project (NGMPP) contain a number of
manuscripts of the Yamagita. If you are interested, I could possibly
provide the accession numbers which should hide somewhere in my old
paper bundles.

best wishes

jn




From jneuss at ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE  Thu Apr 18 18:47:29 2002
From: jneuss at ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE (Juergen Neuss)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 02 20:47:29 +0200
Subject: Yamagita in Nepal
In-Reply-To: <scbd97fd.076@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227070914.23782.196741095455600726.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I don't know whether this helps, but the records of the Nepal German
Manuscript Preservation Project (NGMPP) contain a number of
manuscripts of the Yamagita. If you are interested, I could possibly
provide the accession numbers which should hide somewhere in my old
paper bundles.

best wishes

jn




From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Fri Apr 19 01:48:43 2002
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 02 21:48:43 -0400
Subject: Yamagita in Nepal
In-Reply-To: <scbd97fd.076@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227070910.23782.4339748986820379963.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It is in (older) Nepali:   yamarAjA-le AgyA garyA  "Yamaraja gave the
order..."  etc. etc.
You could ask Ted Riccardi to take a look at it.

Manang, Tibetan (South Tibetan dialect, "Bhote") speaking and high up in
the Himalayas,  is a bit unsual for such a text, but of course not
impossible: the Manangis  are great traders, all the way to SE Asia, and
have a "firman" (Lal Mohar) for that since about the time the MS is
supposed to have been written.

MW.


>The ms begins: ZrIgaNezAya namaH// //ZrIyamAya namaH// //duttagachanti
>bhUrloke. vaiSNavAnAM parittejet//vaiSNavAnAM anAcAri. Zighram ca
>KathitaM prabhU//1//yamarAjAle AgyAganyA. (ryA? tyA?) hedujaho.
>manuSyelokamAjAyeraheravicAragarajovaiSNadharmAtmAchantimanuSyekananalpAvaherdA
>paninahera//1
>(sic)//
========================================================
Michael Witzel
Department of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
2 Divinity Avenue, Cambridge MA 02138, USA

ph. 1- 617-496 2990 (also messages)
home page:  http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm




From mahesrajpant at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Apr 19 08:01:33 2002
From: mahesrajpant at HOTMAIL.COM (Mahes Raj Pant)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 02 08:01:33 +0000
Subject: Yamagita in Nepal
Message-ID: <161227070920.23782.14977311339522500219.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The quotation of the manuscript, as given by Allen Thraser, clearly shows
that it contains a bilingual text. To be specific, the original text in
Sanskrit is followed by a translation-type commentary in the Nepali
language. Judging from the Nepali language itself the manuscript cannot be
so old. We may fix it not around 1775 rather one century later.

Yamagiitaa is a quite popular text among Nepali Hindus. I have noticed some
people still recite the text every morning in their prayer rooms. There are
a lot of microfilms of Yamagiitaa manuscipts accompanied by Nepali-language
translation in the collection of the Nepal-German Manuscript Preservation
Project.

  Mahes Raj Pant





_________________________________________________________________
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From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU  Fri Apr 19 14:22:04 2002
From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 02 09:22:04 -0500
Subject: kSaara
Message-ID: <161227070922.23782.10156173049820764260.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Friends:

A query about the word kSaara, often appearing in the compound
akSaara-lavaNa. Manu 3.257; 5.73, 11.109. Commentators and Buhler
take akSaara to be "non-artificial". At Manu 5.114 kSaara used as a
cleansing agent appears to be some form of alkaline. But
interestingly Arthasastra 2.4.27, and especially 2.15.14 take it
clearly to mean some form of sugar/sweet substance. Could the latter
meaning be also operative in the compound akSaara-lavaNa, referring
to food without salt and kSaara -- i.e. a kind of ascetic food
preparation?

Thanks.

Patrick




From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU  Fri Apr 19 15:29:27 2002
From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 02 10:29:27 -0500
Subject: SV: Manu
In-Reply-To: <01C1E4C8.0C185D40.lmfosse@online.no>
Message-ID: <161227070925.23782.7057935852153811504.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks to all those who responded to my query about Manu -- one or
two volumes. I received several interesting and helpful comments. The
vote however is divided down the line -- half wanting a single volume
and half a single volume -- the latter especially in view of the fact
that the translation alone will be published in the Oxford World
Classics series.

Thanks again.

Patrick




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Fri Apr 19 17:36:10 2002
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 02 18:36:10 +0100
Subject: kSaara
In-Reply-To: <p05100322b8e5d75ee7fc@[216.62.201.241]>
Message-ID: <161227070928.23782.6587718875112312804.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

My aayurvediiya mahaako"sa says:

k.saaralava.na - na., bhai.sajya. lava.abheda.h lo.naarak.saaram (raa. 6.53).

The reference "raa" is the Raajanigha.n.tu, which I don't have to hand,
I'm afraid.

The normal meaning in med. lit. is "caustic", most commonly an alkaline,
as you said.  It's in the class of "sastras, or cutters.

Dominik

--
Dr Dominik Wujastyk
Wellcome Trust Senior Research Fellow
Wellcome Centre for the History of Medicine at UCL
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/histmed/




From ghezziem at TIN.IT  Mon Apr 22 16:42:58 2002
From: ghezziem at TIN.IT (Daniela Rossella)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 02 18:42:58 +0200
Subject: lost messages
Message-ID: <161227070930.23782.15883794098923950984.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

All the messages sent today (22 April 2002)  to my address have been lost.
Please, if it is  possible: send them again. Thanks.

Tutti i messaggi inviatimi oggi sono andati perduti. Per gentilezza, se
possibile spedirli di nuovo. Grazie.

Daniela Rossella




From J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK  Tue Apr 23 15:41:47 2002
From: J.L.Brockington at ED.AC.UK (John Brockington)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 02 16:41:47 +0100
Subject: temporary post at Edinburgh
Message-ID: <161227070932.23782.13055768005823212794.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

First of all, my apologies that this will not be relevant to all of you,
because of distance.

The reason for it is that I shall be on sabbatical next academic year (from
October 1 for nine months) and that, following the award to me of a
Leverhulme Research Fellowship, there is the assurance of funds to pay for a
replacement post during my absence.  The administrative details still have
to be sorted out but, in view of the passage of time, I thought that this
informal notification would be useful.  Would you please pass the
information on to anyone you think might be interested?  Details about
salary and employment conditions and the like (including the closing date
for applications) will be posted in the next few days (hopefully within a
week) at <http://www.jobs.ed.ac.uk>.  I will add below the basic description
of what we are looking for in terms of the teaching involved; I have given
it separately so that you can print it out or forward it readily.

With all good wishes
and thanks

Yours

John Brockington


Professor J. L. Brockington
Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies

Sanskrit, School of Asian Studies
7 Buccleuch Place
Edinburgh   EH8 9LW        U.K.

tel:  +131 650 4174
fax: +131 651 1258



THE UNIVERSITY OF EDINBURGH

School of Asian Studies: Temporary Lectureship in Sanskrit section

Applications are invited for a temporary lectureship in the Sanskrit section
of the School of Asian Studies for the first nine months (three terms) of
the academic year 2002-3, during which Professor John Brockington will be on
research leave.

The Sanskrit section consists of two posts, whose holders between them
provide a full Honours degree in Sanskrit, joint Honours degrees with Greek,
Latin and Linguistics, and contribute substantially to the Religious Studies
degrees of the Faculty of Divinity, teaching Hinduism and Buddhism at
Honours level, as well as teaching courses in Indian Civilisation (1st
level) and Indian Religion and Philosophy (2nd level).  Professor
Brockington is primarily responsible for the the two general courses and for
Hinduism Honours, though contributing also to the language teaching.

These two general courses form part of the first two years of both Sanskrit
Honours and Religious Studies Honours but they are also open to students
following other curricula.  They are therefore planned as general survey
courses, on a broadly historical basis (but also covering the fields of
literature, art and architecture, religion and philosophy), and they require
no knowledge of Sanskrit from the students; the period covered by both is
from earliest times to the 18th century.  Since the appointee will be
teaching these two courses and Hinduism Honours, (s)he should have a general
competence in ancient Indian culture, as well as a more specific interest in
Hinduism.

The appointment will be made at the bottom of the current lecturer scale.
Intending applicants are welcome to contact Professor Brockington
(J.L.Brockington at ed.ac.uk) for further details of what the teaching
involves.




From vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE  Wed Apr 24 12:55:35 2002
From: vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE (Vielle Christophe)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 02 14:55:35 +0200
Subject: Mythic origin of the Nastikas/BArhaspatyas
In-Reply-To: <B8EB3F4B.17BF%J.L.Brockington@ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <161227070933.23782.3788073857933608671.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,
at the moment inputing the vaMzAnucarita portion for the
Brinkhaus-Schreiner-DICSEP3 HarivaMza electronic transliteration Project, I
come across the story of Raji and his sons in ch. 21. As you probably know,
Raji's sons seize the kingdom of Indra, who goes to BRhaspati for asking
help. The latter restores Indra's tejas. As for Raji's sons, "the best of
the munis created delusion in their intellect"
te.s-a.m ca buddhisa.mmoham !akarod .r.sisattama.h !!21.34cd!
Then occurs a star passage: all Mss. (except /S1 ?N1 M1-3) G(ed.) ins.
x n-astiv-ad-artha/s-astra.m hi !dharmavidve.sa.na.m param !
x parama.m tarka/s-astr-a.n-am !asat-a.m tan manonugam !
x na hi dharmapradh-an-an-a.m !rocate vai kath-antare !!
x te tad b.rhaspatik.rta.m !/s-astra.m /srutv-alpacetasa.h !
x p-urvoktadharma/s-astr-a.n-am !abhavan dve.si.na.h sad-a !!
x pracakrur ny-ayarahita.m !tanmata.m bahu menire !
x ten-adharme.na te p-ap-a.h !sarva eva k.saya.m gat-a.h !!
x trailokyar-ajya.m /sakras tu !pr-apya du.spr-apam eva ca !
x b.rhaspatipras-ad-ad dhi !par-a.m nirv.rtim abhyag-at !!21.34*327!
Then the main text continues:
te yad-a sma susa.mm-u.dh-a !r-agonmatt-a vidharmi.na.h !
brahmadvi.sa/s ca sa.mv.rtt-a hatav-iryapar-akram-a.h !!21.35!

Since this star passage does not occur in the "best" Mss. and has no
equivalent in the BDP-VAP common text (cf. HV 21.34cd-5 = VAP 96.97-8a-b),
one can effectively conclude that it did not belong to the HV in his
earliest stage. Nor can it be very late, however,  since it is shared by
most of the Mss. from different families, and the tradition itself could be
older than the text.

It is well known that the traditional treatise of the CArvAkas was called
the BArhaspatya-sUtras, but as far as I know it seems not to have been
explained by the historians of Indian philosophy why that treatise came to
be mythologically ascribed to BRhaspati (I came across a reference to an
hypothesis by Pizzagalli quoted by Silburn in Renou-Filliozat MEI II, but
without any bibliographical data, that I would be therefore happy to get).
The HV passage is in this way interesting, and fits well with the allusion
in Maitry-UpaniSad 7.9:
b.rhspatir vai /sukro bh-utvendrasy-abhay-ay-asurebhya.h k.say-ayem-am
avidy-am as.rjat
Also interesting is the fact that the nAstivAdins seem to designate here
the logicians (cf. their tarka-zAstra, even if, with a play on words, their
action is declared nyAya-rahita).

I would be happy to get some comments on this by specialists of Indian
philosophy.

Dr. Christophe Vielle
Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud
Institut orientaliste
Place Blaise Pascal 1
B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve
BELGIUM
Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home)
E-mail: vielle at ori.ucl.ac.be




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Thu Apr 25 09:42:10 2002
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 02 10:42:10 +0100
Subject: Yamagita in Nepal (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227070936.23782.17415998703187487116.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:51:25 +0000
From: Michael Hutt <mh8 at soas.ac.uk>
To: Dominik Wujastyk <ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Yamagita in Nepal (fwd)

Dominik, I can discern some Nepali there
(manuSyelokamAjAyeraheravicAragarajovaiSNadharmAtmAchantimanuSyekananalpAvaherdA
paninahera) and some Skt, I think, but nothing that looks like Newari to
me.


--- Message from DW:
Mike, does this look like Newari or Nepalese?
>
>Dominik
>
>--

>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:42:16 -0400
>From: Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV>
>Reply-To: Indology <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
>To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>Subject: Yamagita in Nepal
>
>The Library of Congress has just been given a 12 ff. manuscript
>apparently missing at least one final page.  There is no final colophon
>and the last p. seems to end in the middle of Sloka 44.  In the margins
>with the folio numbers is the abbreviation Ya. GI.
>
>The ms begins: ZrIgaNezAya namaH// //ZrIyamAya namaH// //duttagachanti
>bhUrloke. vaiSNavAnAM parittejet//vaiSNavAnAM anAcAri. Zighram ca
>KathitaM prabhU//1//yamarAjAle AgyAganyA. (ryA? tyA?) hedujaho.
>manuSyelokamAjAyeraheravicAragarajovaiSNadharmAtmAchantimanuSyekananalpAvaherdA
>paninahera//1
>(sic)//
>
>The periods represent dots between two letters, halfway down from the
>ZirorekhA.
>
>F. 12 seems to include a phalastuti of a YamagItA.  The phrase
>yamarAjAle AgyAganyA. (ryA? tyA?), included above, occurs repeatedly in
>the book.
>
>The donor knows nothing about the ms except that it was from Manang,
>Nepal, and is supposed to be from around 1775.
>
>The text is clearly in some other language than Sanskrit.
>
>Does anyone know anything about Yamagitas from Nepal?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Allen Thrasher
>Library of Congress

Michael Hutt
Reader in Nepali and Himalayan Studies & Dean of Vernon Square campus
School of Oriental and African Studies, London
tel 020 7074 5011
fax 020 7074 5039




From tccahill at LOYNO.EDU  Thu Apr 25 16:06:27 2002
From: tccahill at LOYNO.EDU (Timothy C. Cahill)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 02 11:06:27 -0500
Subject: Kandahar [Journey] -Makhmalbaf film
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.44.0204251623150.1256-100000@Anat-lws119.anat.ucl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <161227070939.23782.14391301790812813556.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Indologists,

   There's a Sanskrit verse in Kandahar that gets repeated 2-3 times
in a stylized recitation. Part of it went: "Shri Satya-Sai" and in another
place I had a vague sense of it being from the Gita.  (Didn't stay for the
credits.) If anyone knows what's being recited I'd like to know.

best,
Tim Cahill




From rmanring at INDIANA.EDU  Thu Apr 25 16:10:29 2002
From: rmanring at INDIANA.EDU (Manring, Rebecca)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 02 11:10:29 -0500
Subject: Kandahar [Journey] -Makhmalbaf film
Message-ID: <161227070941.23782.2296657287425351096.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It sounded to me like a hymn to the dawn.  I wondered too, why it was there,
and since the credits were in Farsi, I couldn't read anything about the
music.

Rebecca J. Manring
Religious Studies
Indiana University


-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy C. Cahill [mailto:tccahill at LOYNO.EDU]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 11:06 AM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Kandahar [Journey] -Makhmalbaf film

Indologists,

   There's a Sanskrit verse in Kandahar that gets repeated 2-3 times
in a stylized recitation. Part of it went: "Shri Satya-Sai" and in another
place I had a vague sense of it being from the Gita.  (Didn't stay for the
credits.) If anyone knows what's being recited I'd like to know.

best,
Tim Cahill




From athr at LOC.GOV  Thu Apr 25 17:49:10 2002
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 02 13:49:10 -0400
Subject: Yamagita in Nepal
Message-ID: <161227070943.23782.1494196151833965250.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks to Michael Hutt and Dominic for their further help.

Allen Thrasher




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Thu Apr 25 15:31:41 2002
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 02 16:31:41 +0100
Subject: Fw: Sanskrit-German Dictionary 1800's
In-Reply-To: <001301c1ec6a$3251e180$1de9d043@mary>
Message-ID: <161227070937.23782.1785041059479721396.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

We don't ususally carry advertisements, but there are parts of Boehtlingk
and Roth for auction (opening bid $5) at
   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1532916779

Best,
D




From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Fri Apr 26 01:57:15 2002
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav M. Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 02 21:57:15 -0400
Subject: Announcing a new book
Message-ID: <161227070945.23782.4312503072632302349.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I am happy to announce the publication of my recent book:

RECITATIONAL PERMUTATIONS OF THE ZAUNAKIIYA ATHARVAVEDA
Critically edited with an Introduction
by
Madhav M. Deshpande
Harvard Oriental Series, Vol. 61, 2002

Series Editor: Michael Witzel

Introduction (65 pages), Sanskrit texts (460 pages)

Contains the critically edited texts of the Ja.taapaa.tha for the 15th and
the 17th Kaa.n.da and the Kramapaa.tha for the 20th Kaa.n.da of the
Zaunakiiya Atharvaveda


Madhav M. Deshpande




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Fri Apr 26 13:36:21 2002
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 02 14:36:21 +0100
Subject: Research assistantship offered
Message-ID: <161227070947.23782.11341278502295976465.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

If you know of anyone who would be interested in six months of
Sanskrit-related research-assitant work in London, please show them the
following advertisement.

There's a copy which might be nicer for printing out at:

 	http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/advert/

Thanks,
DW



------------------------------------------------------------------

Research Assistant

A research assistant is required for six months to assist Dr
Dominik Wujastyk with a project on the history of medicine in
India on the eve of colonialism, 1550-1750.  The project aims to
systematically collect prosopographical information on medical
authors and practitioners of the period, their works, and the
surviving manuscripts of these works.  It also aims to discover as
much as is possible about centres of medical excellence and
education during the period, as well as revealing professional and
scholarly networks of activity amongst pre-colonial Sanskrit
intellectuals and medical practitioners.

The successful applicant will be expected to provide general
research assistance on the project.  This is likely to include
normal office work, as well as entering data into a database,
clarifying issues of authorship and identity of pre-modern medical
authors and practitioners,  and providing summaries of research
publications and of selected Sanskrit works on ayurveda and
related subjects.

Applicants should have a good command of the Sanskrit language to
at least BA level, and some familiarity with the history of
Sanskrit literature.  Familiarity with other Indian languages
would be an advantage.  Applicants should also be familiar with
computer skills such as word processing, email, databases and data
entry, and be willing to take the European Computer Driving
License if deemed necessary.  A knowledge of TeX would be an
advantage.

Applicants must be citizens of the European union, or be eligible
to obtain a full UK work permit.  The position is available
immediately.

The salary will be pro-rata to the annual salary range of ?18,655
to ?21,503 plus ?2134 London weighting.

To apply, please send or email your CV and the contact details of
at least two academic referees to Mr Alan Shiel, Wellcome Centre
for the History of Medicine at UCL, 24 Eversholt Street, London
NW1 1AD, UK.  For further details, please send email to
a.shiel at ucl.ac.uk.

The closing date for applications is 17 May 2002.




------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Dominik Wujastyk
Wellcome Trust Senior Research Fellow
Wellcome Centre for the History of Medicine at UCL
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/histmed/




From GthomGt at CS.COM  Sat Apr 27 01:45:02 2002
From: GthomGt at CS.COM (George Thompson)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 02 21:45:02 -0400
Subject: nyUGkha in Vedic recitation
Message-ID: <161227070949.23782.7535163745264491537.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List,




From JFStaal at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU  Sat Apr 27 18:52:01 2002
From: JFStaal at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (Frits Staal)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 02 11:52:01 -0700
Subject: nyUGkha in Vedic recitation
In-Reply-To: <6e.1bb29d79.29fb5c9e@cs.com>
Message-ID: <161227070952.23782.8173930667603445909.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Warning! List was empty...


all the best,

F

At 09:45 PM 4/26/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear List,




From wedemeyer at HUM.KU.DK  Mon Apr 29 09:35:10 2002
From: wedemeyer at HUM.KU.DK (Christian K. Wedemeyer)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 02 11:35:10 +0200
Subject: Fwd: [RISA-L] Job Opening for Graduate Student
Message-ID: <161227070958.23782.13947544837245804309.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I don't remember seeing this posted on this list and I suspect there
may be students of INDOLOGY members who might be interested.

As noted, do not contact me, but Brad Clough.

Best,

Christian


>Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:18:05 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Brad Clough <clough at bard.edu>
>To: risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu
>Subject: [RISA-L] Job Opening for Graduate Student
>
>Dear All:
>       The New York State Independent College Consortium for Study in
>India (NYSICCSI) is looking for an assistant director to help lead our
>program abroad in India for the fall of this year. We are looking for
>a graduate student at the M.A. or ABD level who would be interested in
>helping to teach (on a number of Indological topics) and guide
>undergraduates in the classroom and in the field, and to assist in the
>organization and carrying out of various other aspects of the program,
>such as field trips.  The pay is $3,000 for the semester, and the
>assistant's airfare, insurance, and room and board costs are all
>covered. If you have a graduate student who would be interested in this,
>please have them e-mail me, Brad Clough, with an attached cover letter and
>CV. Or, if you are an interested graduate student yourself, please send
>the same materials.
>
>Sincerely,
>Brad Clough
>Field Director, NYSICCSI '02
>
>clough at bard.edu




From phbernede at YAHOO.COM  Tue Apr 30 13:04:23 2002
From: phbernede at YAHOO.COM (Pascale Haag Bernede)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 02 06:04:23 -0700
Subject: Fwd: TR: IMPORTANT ET SERIEUX VIRUS SUIVRE INSTRUCTIONS
Message-ID: <161227070960.23782.12808790701713746553.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Bonjour,

En recevant ce message, j'ai effectu? la recherche ?
tout hasard et trouv? ce fameux virus ? deux reprises
sur le disque dur de l'ordinateur que j'utilise ?
l'universit? de Hambourg. Ce n'est donc pas une blague
et il peut ?tre utile de v?rifier le v?tre comme
indiqu? ci-dessous.

Pascale.


> Subject: Fwd: TR: IMPORTANT ET SERIEUX VIRUS SUIVRE
> INSTRUCTIONS
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:21:29 +0000
><DIV></DIV>)" <YCHARPENTIER at HOTMAIL.COM>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: TR: IMPORTANT ET SERIEUX VIRUS
SUIVRE INSTRUCTIONS

 JE VIENS D'ETRE INFECTE PAR UN VIRUS. FAITES CE QU'IL
Y A ECRIT EN DESSOUS ET TOUT SE PASSERA BIEN. LE NOM
DU VIRUS EST jdbgmgr.exe L'ICONE EST UN PETIT
OURSON.IL EST TRANSMIS AUTOMATIQUEMENT PAR LE CARNET
D'ADRESSES.
LE VIRUS N'EST PAS DETECTE PAR VOTRE ANTIVIRUS ET
RESTE EN SOMMEIL PENDANT 14 JOURS AVANT DE S'ATTAQUER
AU DISQUE DUR. IL PEUT DETRUIRE TOUT LE SYSTEME !!!
JE VIENS MOI MEME DE LE TROUVER SUR MON DISQUE DUR
!!!AGISSEZ DONC TRES VITE POUR L' ELIMINER COMME SUIT:


 1. Aller dans DEMARRER, faire "RECHERCHER"
 2. dans la fenetre FICHIERS-DOSSIERS taper le nom du
virus:  jdbgmgr.exe
 3. Assurez vous de faire la recherche sur votre
disque dur "C"
 4. Appuyer sur "RECHERCHER MAINTENANT"
 5. Si vous trouvez le virus L'ICONE EST UN PETIT
OURSON son nom  "jdbgmgr.exe " ---&gt; NE L'OUVREZ
SURTOUT PAS!!!!!
 6. Appuyer sur le bouton droit de la souris pour
l'?liminer aller la CORBEILLE) vous pouvez aussi
l'effacer en appuyant sur SHIFT DELETE afin qu'il ne
reste pas dans la corbeille.
7. aller la CORBEILLE et l'effacer d?finitivement ou
bien vider la corbeille. Mais SURTOUT NE L'OUVREZ PAS
, SUPPRIMEZ-LE DIRECTEMENT  !!!!!

SI VOUS TROUVEZ LE VIRUS SUR VOTRE DISQUE DUR ENVOYEZ
CE MESSAGE A TOUS VOS CORRESPONDANTS FIGURANT SUR
VOTRE CARNET D'ADRESSES CAR CE VIRUS PASSE VRAIMENT
PARTOUT ET TRES VITE !!! !!! !!! .



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com




From phbernede at YAHOO.COM  Tue Apr 30 13:42:49 2002
From: phbernede at YAHOO.COM (Pascale Haag Bernede)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 02 06:42:49 -0700
Subject: Fausse alerte
Message-ID: <161227070968.23782.11928053132932514800.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Le message qui m'a ?t? transmis concernant un
dangereux virus serait un "Hoax" ("canular"). Pri?re
d'ignorer et de bien vouloir excuser mon pr?c?dent
courriel.

Pascale Haag-Bern?de.

Merci ? Jean-Luc Chevillard de m'avoir signal?
l'existence de ce canular de mauvais go?t.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com




From phbernede at YAHOO.COM  Tue Apr 30 14:02:08 2002
From: phbernede at YAHOO.COM (Pascale Haag Bernede)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 02 07:02:08 -0700
Subject: Hoax
Message-ID: <161227070970.23782.59710943100342144.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear non francophone list members,

Very sorry about sending by mistake a message in
French to the list. For those who don't read French, I
got frightened by some virus alert sent to me today,
but it was only a Hoax.

Best wishes,

Pascale Haag-Bern?de.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com




From jlc at CCR.JUSSIEU.FR  Tue Apr 30 13:25:54 2002
From: jlc at CCR.JUSSIEU.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 02 15:25:54 +0200
Subject: HOAX WARNING! Re: Fwd: TR: IMPORTANT ET SERIEUX VIRUS SUIVRE              INSTRUCTIONS
In-Reply-To: <20020430130423.51770.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227070963.23782.6897924493012524220.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Please do not believe what is contained
in Pascale's message.

This is a hoax!

See
<http://vil.nai.com/VIL/hoaxes.asp>
if you don't believe me!

Or see:
<http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99436.htm>

Be careful not to propagate the hoax!


-- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris)


At 06:04 30/04/02 -0700, Pascale wrote:
>Bonjour,
>
>En recevant ce message, j'ai effectu? la recherche ?
>tout hasard et trouv? ce fameux virus ? deux reprises
>sur le disque dur de l'ordinateur que j'utilise ?
>l'universit? de Hambourg. Ce n'est donc pas une blague
>et il peut ?tre utile de v?rifier le v?tre comme
>indiqu? ci-dessous.
>
>Pascale.
>
>
> > Subject: Fwd: TR: IMPORTANT ET SERIEUX VIRUS SUIVRE
> > INSTRUCTIONS
> > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:21:29 +0000
> ><DIV></DIV>)" <YCHARPENTIER at HOTMAIL.COM>
><DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: TR: IMPORTANT ET SERIEUX VIRUS
>SUIVRE INSTRUCTIONS
>
>  JE VIENS D'ETRE INFECTE PAR UN VIRUS. FAITES CE QU'IL
>Y A ECRIT EN DESSOUS ET TOUT SE PASSERA BIEN. LE NOM
>DU VIRUS EST jdbgmgr.exe L'ICONE EST UN PETIT
>OURSON.IL EST TRANSMIS AUTOMATIQUEMENT PAR LE CARNET
>D'ADRESSES.
>LE VIRUS N'EST PAS DETECTE PAR VOTRE ANTIVIRUS ET
>RESTE EN SOMMEIL PENDANT 14 JOURS AVANT DE S'ATTAQUER
>AU DISQUE DUR. IL PEUT DETRUIRE TOUT LE SYSTEME !!!
>JE VIENS MOI MEME DE LE TROUVER SUR MON DISQUE DUR
>!!!AGISSEZ DONC TRES VITE POUR L' ELIMINER COMME SUIT:
>
>
>  1. Aller dans DEMARRER, faire "RECHERCHER"
>  2. dans la fenetre FICHIERS-DOSSIERS taper le nom du
>virus:  jdbgmgr.exe
>  3. Assurez vous de faire la recherche sur votre
>disque dur "C"
>  4. Appuyer sur "RECHERCHER MAINTENANT"
>  5. Si vous trouvez le virus L'ICONE EST UN PETIT
>OURSON son nom  "jdbgmgr.exe " ---&gt; NE L'OUVREZ
>SURTOUT PAS!!!!!
>  6. Appuyer sur le bouton droit de la souris pour
>l'?liminer aller la CORBEILLE) vous pouvez aussi
>l'effacer en appuyant sur SHIFT DELETE afin qu'il ne
>reste pas dans la corbeille.
>7. aller la CORBEILLE et l'effacer d?finitivement ou
>bien vider la corbeille. Mais SURTOUT NE L'OUVREZ PAS
>, SUPPRIMEZ-LE DIRECTEMENT  !!!!!
>
>SI VOUS TROUVEZ LE VIRUS SUR VOTRE DISQUE DUR ENVOYEZ
>CE MESSAGE A TOUS VOS CORRESPONDANTS FIGURANT SUR
>VOTRE CARNET D'ADRESSES CAR CE VIRUS PASSE VRAIMENT
>PARTOUT ET TRES VITE !!! !!! !!! .
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
>http://health.yahoo.com




From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT  Tue Apr 30 13:46:16 2002
From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 02 15:46:16 +0200
Subject: Fwd: TR: IMPORTANT ET SERIEUX VIRUS SUIVRE INSTRUCTIONS
In-Reply-To: <20020430130423.51770.qmail@web14309.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227070965.23782.13088631105423029294.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Pascale and others,

the following is a quote from an anti-virus homepage:
"In April 2002 there appeared a hoax message concerning a new virus that 
was reportedly discovered in Windows utility JDBGMGR.EXE. The jdbgmgr is a 
standard windows component that is found in every windows installation, it 
is used as Java debugger manager in Microsoft Java runtime engine. We 
checked several versions of this utility from Windows installations and 
found nothing malicious in them.

Please ignore this hoax or anything similar warning about jdbgmgr.exe and 
don't pass it on.

If you have deleted JDBGMGR.EXE from your system, it can be restored by 
installing updated version of Microsft Virtual Machine or Internet 
Explorer.

Please note that some e-mail worms (for example, Magistr) might sometimes 
send an infected JDBGMGR.EXE in an e-mail attachment, but this infection is 
caused by Magistr not JDBGMGR by itself. So the bottom line is, if you 
receive JDBGMGR.EXE or any other windows component by email, it is most 
probably a file infected by a virus. If you find JDBGMGR.EXE from your 
system directory, it is most probably a clean file."

http://www.europe.f-secure.com/hoaxes/jdbgmgr.shtml

Best regards,

Birgit Kellner



--On Dienstag, 30. April 2002 06:04 -0700 Pascale Haag Bernede 
<phbernede at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Bonjour,
>
> En recevant ce message, j'ai effectu? la recherche ?
> tout hasard et trouv? ce fameux virus ? deux reprises
> sur le disque dur de l'ordinateur que j'utilise ?
> l'universit? de Hambourg. Ce n'est donc pas une blague
> et il peut ?tre utile de v?rifier le v?tre comme
> indiqu? ci-dessous.
>
> Pascale.
>
>
>> Subject: Fwd: TR: IMPORTANT ET SERIEUX VIRUS SUIVRE
>> INSTRUCTIONS
>> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:21:29 +0000
>> <DIV></DIV>)" <YCHARPENTIER at HOTMAIL.COM>
> <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: TR: IMPORTANT ET SERIEUX VIRUS
> SUIVRE INSTRUCTIONS
>
>  JE VIENS D'ETRE INFECTE PAR UN VIRUS. FAITES CE QU'IL
> Y A ECRIT EN DESSOUS ET TOUT SE PASSERA BIEN. LE NOM
> DU VIRUS EST jdbgmgr.exe L'ICONE EST UN PETIT
> OURSON.IL EST TRANSMIS AUTOMATIQUEMENT PAR LE CARNET
> D'ADRESSES.
> LE VIRUS N'EST PAS DETECTE PAR VOTRE ANTIVIRUS ET
> RESTE EN SOMMEIL PENDANT 14 JOURS AVANT DE S'ATTAQUER
> AU DISQUE DUR. IL PEUT DETRUIRE TOUT LE SYSTEME !!!
> JE VIENS MOI MEME DE LE TROUVER SUR MON DISQUE DUR
> !!!AGISSEZ DONC TRES VITE POUR L' ELIMINER COMME SUIT:
>
>
>  1. Aller dans DEMARRER, faire "RECHERCHER"
>  2. dans la fenetre FICHIERS-DOSSIERS taper le nom du
> virus:  jdbgmgr.exe
>  3. Assurez vous de faire la recherche sur votre
> disque dur "C"
>  4. Appuyer sur "RECHERCHER MAINTENANT"
>  5. Si vous trouvez le virus L'ICONE EST UN PETIT
> OURSON son nom  "jdbgmgr.exe " ---&gt; NE L'OUVREZ
> SURTOUT PAS!!!!!
>  6. Appuyer sur le bouton droit de la souris pour
> l'?liminer aller la CORBEILLE) vous pouvez aussi
> l'effacer en appuyant sur SHIFT DELETE afin qu'il ne
> reste pas dans la corbeille.
> 7. aller la CORBEILLE et l'effacer d?finitivement ou
> bien vider la corbeille. Mais SURTOUT NE L'OUVREZ PAS
> , SUPPRIMEZ-LE DIRECTEMENT  !!!!!
>
> SI VOUS TROUVEZ LE VIRUS SUR VOTRE DISQUE DUR ENVOYEZ
> CE MESSAGE A TOUS VOS CORRESPONDANTS FIGURANT SUR
> VOTRE CARNET D'ADRESSES CAR CE VIRUS PASSE VRAIMENT
> PARTOUT ET TRES VITE !!! !!! !!! .
>
>
>
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