Some questions on Asuras

[Bjarte Kaldhol]

Dear listmembers,

Steve Farmer wrote:

1.  > The reversal of attitudes towards the
> asuras in later RV hymns and the Brahmanas, when viewed in light
> of the *consistently* negative views of daeuuas in the Gathas,
> would seem to me to hold a critical clue to resolving the
> Zarathustra/Gathas dating problem. The probability of this
> increases when we note that the level of abstraction of theistic
> concepts in later RV 10 hymns are similar to those found in the
> Gathas -- and quite different from those found in older hymns in
> the RV family books. Taken together, these two pieces of data
> suggest that the Gathas date from no earlier than the latest RV
> strata, e.g. in mandala 10, which were presumably composed long
> after the Indo-Iranian language split.

I can see some difficulties in measuring "the level of abstraction of
theistic concepts" at different times, and names like Artadama (if from
Rta-dhaman) in the fourteenth century BC would reveal some degree of
abstraction among Indo-Aryans already in the second millennium. Also, in
the Ancient Near East, abstractions (as well as physical objects, for
instance a kinna:ru at Ugarit!) were regarded as gods and received
offerings. In this connection I would like to remind my readers of the
difficult interpretation of "the gods Midra$$el" and "the gods
Uruwana$$el/Aruna$$el" in the treaty between a Hittite and a Hurrian king.
It is very strange that Mitra and Varuna have received Hurrian abstract
suffixes here. Was this a Hurrian innovation, or did it correspond to
something that already existed in Indo-Aryan? In Onofrio Carruba's paper,
which I have discussed earlier, he cites Gernot Wilhelm, who suggests that
we should regard the expressions as denoting "die Vertragsnumina als ein
evtl. konkretisiertes Abstraktum... das wie ein Kollektiv behandelt wird".
Carruba himself says (p. 64-65): "Wenn wir uns die urspruengliche Bedeutung
beider Goetterbezeichnungen und ihre Eigenschaften ins Gedaechtnis
zurueckrufen, so heisst mitra- "Vertrag, Buendnis", und der Gott gilt als
Vertragsbeschuetzer; bei Varuna ist die Bedeutung noch unsicher, scheint
aber auf "Wahrheit" und auf den vor allem bei Vertraegen sie beschuetzenden
"Schwur"... hinzudeuten."

What has happened, then, is that the abstractions "treaty, alliance" and
"truth", as qualities of Mitra and Varuna, have been deified. This is
indeed remarkable, but there are some parallels in other Hurrian texts.

2.  > In any case, the demonization of the gods of bordering
> civilizations occurred everywhere in the premodern world, as
> witnessed by much evidence from the Middle East, Europe, China,
> and even Mesoamerica. It is difficult to believe that something
> else was involved in the asuras/ahuras case. The sharp reversal
> in attitudes towards the asuras found in late RV and later Vedic
> sources appears to be strong prima facie evidence of extended
> contact between Indian and Iranian civilizations long after their
> linguistic split.

In the Ancient Near East of the second millennium, foreign gods were as a
rule respected and highly regarded. They could even be brought back to the
city of a conqueror and venerated there.

The demonization of the daevas is regarded by Manfred Hutter as a somewhat
gradual  phenomenon, particularly strong in post-islamic times. According
to Hutter, Zarathustra was not a monotheist; Ahura Mazda is merely "an der
Spitze der Ahuras", and in OA "Ahura Mazda" is not even a fixed name at
Zarathustra's time. He says explicitly that "die feste Wendung "Ahura
Mazda" sich jedoch erst in jungavestischer Zeit als Eigenname durchgesetzt
hat". Hutter cites a plural form of Mitra used in Y. 46,5, mithroibiio
(strangely reminiscent of the Hurrian plural "Midra$$el"!), and comments
that Zarathustra in this way succeeded in avoiding the singular form, "die
lautlich mit dem Gottesnamen zusammenfaellt". Zarathustra does not like
Mitra, but he simply cannot get rid of him.

Hutter dates the arrival of the Medes in the Iranian plateau to about 1000
BC, and he thinks the Gathas were composed farther to the north before this
time. He notes that the name Assara Maza$ is mentioned in an Assyrian text
from the ninth or eighth century BC, and that the teachings would have
needed some time to spread to the Medes in the west. Archaeologically, the
use of horse-drawn chariots in the area east of the Aral Sea is known from
about 1600 BC, so the terminology of horses and horse races (in the Avesta)
could be very old. (By the way, horse-drawn chariots were used in warfare
in Anatolia in the eighteenth century, as attested in the Anitta text.)

3. > I assume that there are probably strong counterarguments to these
> views, which I would be interested in hearing. I also assume that
> George Thompson might have informed opinions on this issue.

I, too, would be very interested in George Thompson's views!

Best wishes,
Bjarte Kaldhol,
Oslo