Re. Black and Bright and Beautiful

[Vanbakkam Vijayaraghavan]

On Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:58:54 GMT, Maran Kathirchelvan
<maran_kathirchelvan at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:

>Vanbakkam Vijayaraghavan states rather authoritatively:
>
>>But generally many Tamils refer to Africans as 'karuppargal'
>>meaning blacks - with the assumption that they are not blacks
>
>I am surprised that Mr. Vijayaraghavan, who has demonstrated  his scant
>familiarity with the Tamil langugage in this list, continues to make such
>authoritative statements.  "Karuppan" is a common name that Tamils use for
>themselves.  I wonder how Mr. Vijayaraghavan can come to the conclusion
that
>Tamils assume that they are not black.  Tamils don't identify themselves as
>whites or browns either.


I seem to have touched a raw nerve in you and you make unwarranted
statements about the lengths of my posts, knowledge,etc. However, you don't
deny that Tamils use the word 'karuppargal'for Africans. Collectively, they
don't use the term for themselves, even though some people are
named 'karuppan', etc. Just as there are white people named Mr.Black or
Nigel (from Latin  nigre meaning black) does not mean there has been no
anti-black racism among whites.
>
>>'Apprikka Azhage' meaning African beauty , is used as a snide
>>remark even by 'dravidian' politcal[sic] parties
>
And yet he continues to make unfounded assertions! I would
>like him to cite a reference to support his claim that "'Apprikka Azhage'
>meaning African beauty , IS USED  as a snide remark even by 'dravidian'
>political PARTIES."

I have seen an election poster attacking Kamaraj as Apprikka azhage in
front of Mambalam station when he was alive in 1965. Who was fighting to
defeat Kamaraj in 65 and putting up poters against him ? I have heard Tamil
people use this word in a snide way.
>
>That there is a complexion consciousness in modern India is undeniable


This is your backhanded way of accepting what I am saying !!


>it cuts across the spectrum of the Indian society.  But that does not imply
>that things were always so in India.  As the citation from Kampa rAmayaNam
>shows, as late as the 13 Century C.E., Tamil poets were still singing the
>praise of dark complexion.

But we don't know the social reality of Kamban's days. You cannot assume
the colour consciousness during Kamban's days by reading Kamban alone Even
Bharathi wrote 'Kariyavanai kanada kan enna kanne', that does not mean you
can deny the social reality of anti-black discrimination in the 20th
century.

 If Mr. Vijayaraghavan can add scholarly insight
>to this discussion, that will be welcome.  But it is disappointing to read
>continual mischaracterizations from Mr. Vijyaraghavan whose Tamil language
>credentials are suspect.

You raw nerves make you  unwarranted accusations against me. Under the
cloak of "scholarly insight" i.e. texts or to be precise the involved
interpretation of the texts, you somehow want to push the everyday reality
under the rug. When I expose the anti-black sentiments in the Tamil
society, you think we should read only texts and nothing beyond it
I have seen the posters attacking Mr.Pandiyan, the ex-speaker of TN
assembly as "karuppu bhoothame", which behaviour in many other countries
would have landed those behind the poster in jail. This was about 12 years
back.