Viveka & Rta/Satya

[Rajarshi Banerjee]

MW> I thought AIT was forbidden here. I will therefore restrict myself here
to aspects of cultural change.
All comparisons carry only so far. Conditions are never identical in any two
settings.
As for the eastward-ho covered wagons, I suggest to read W. Rau (even in
English, see below) before writing with limited knowledge of the texts. He
shows that the Vedic texts say exactly that: covered wagons:
wagons trains on the move; 2 days move, one day rest; at night, arranging
them in a circle like a snake biting its own tail. Graama means 'wagon
train' almost down to Patanjali (Rau in: HOS-Opera Minora vol 2.), who still
remembers it. Certainly so during much of the Brahmana period. Why else
aaryaavarta? They 'turn around' in their pastoral territory.
RB> Sounds compelling but with some reservations. Covered bullock carts are
still a common mode of transport in India and were used for inter city trade
by merchants in historic times and for long distance travel. Nothing
uniquely central asian about them. Harappans and every one else in india
would surely would be using such things especially during a crisis when all
belongings need to be moved. See film footage of the partition.
As for varta in "Aryavarta".. A region is defined by its boundary or
perimeter(circle). Dont see why "varta" needs to be connected  to a wagon
encampment. I would assume that "aryavarta" connotes a different context and
scale than a travelling party of bullock carts. Maybe I am missing
something.
RB> Are comparisions scientific? The spanish had guns, canons, armour,
steel, >new disases all of which had a drastic effect on the native
population >particularly the diseases. It was an interaction of two
civilizations >separated by a huge technological gap. The northern
neighbours of the meso >americans had barely started agriculture and the
region was nowhere as >advanced as europe.
MW> The last sentence is patently wrong. There was agriculture up to Dakota
and Chicago. And the latter area shows exactly what RB denies: around 1300
the agricultural people in that area reverted to hunting. Due to change of
climate (little Ice Age as in Greenland). A new economy, due to ecological
changes and influence from more successful (that is: better adapted)
neighbors.
RB> Come on was north america as technological economically and
agriculturally advanced as europe? They had just dabbled in agriculture at
best and thats all I meant.
Did european society revert to hunting around 1300. Did the arapaho , sioux
nations have an economy based on agricutural surplus and industry which let
them build and support cities, navies etc? The tribes of the north western
america were just getting economically organized and establishing trade
networks when he europeans came in and disrupted them. Quite late dont you
think?
MW> What's the problem? As I have written here before, you only need one
tribe out of Afghanistan who took the wrong turn and stayed in the Panjab
instead of returning to the Afghani summer pastures, -- and you start Ch.
Ehret's scenario of billiard-ball like innovation and cultural change, which
spreads successfully, so that no member of the end of the chain must have
any (genetic or other direct) connection with those that started it.
RB> The problem is that this sort of domino effect is fine when it comes to
religious and even cultural change. But linguistic change cannot be that
drastic or rapid. If we assume that an IE language had an earlier presense
in India then it could also explain quicker adoption of external IE customs.
Not necessary implying that india was the PIE homeland.

RB