The Origins of Indra

[Stephen Hodge]

----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel George <strixspiral at YAHOO.COM>
To: <INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 1999 11:01 PM
Subject: The Origins of Indra


> It is my understanding that the devolopment of the gods Indra, Soma,
and
> Agni precede that of Shiva and Vishnu. I have been unable to
persuade a
> friend that this was how the religions of India evolved. Showing her
a
> refence she discarded it as a "Western" source and quoted Sanskrit
> scripture. I have dropped the subject with her but suspect her
> understanding is derived froma devotional disposition, in contrast
with my
> more philosophical approach. Since the mythology of India absorbed
and
> adapted preceding aspects as it evolved, I am assuming that texts
which
> refer to Shiva represent a religion which already absorbed Indra
into its
> pantheon and placed him in a lower loka. Thus, whether older texts
refer to
> Indra without Shiva would not convice a devotee of Shiva that Indra
> preceded Shiva. In any case, I need to get this clear in my own mind
and if
> anyone has particular knowledge on the chronology of the evolution
of the
> pantheon as it relates to Indra, I would much appreciate the
information.

Hello, Daniel !

My main area of expertise is Buddhism so I cannot speak with any
authority -- somebody else more knowledgeable may reply.   However,
here is my take on your question.   There seems to be a scholarly
consensus that Shiva is a later "incarnation" of Rudra who is
mentioned in the Vedas.  There was possibly some syncreticism at work
as it is also thought that Shiva per se was a local "tribal"
pre/non-Vedic local deity.  There is also a famous Indus Valley seal
depicting a Shiva-like pashupati figure sitting in what is thought is
a yogic meditational pose.  The classic book covering Shiva is, of
course, Stella Kramrisch's The Presence of Shiva.   She also goes into
detail about the relationship between Rudra and Indra.
If you look at Buddhist texts, I think those that belong to the
earliest strata preserved in Pali do not mention Shiva by name but
there is increasing mention of him by the time one comes to Mahyana
texts.   The situation in Buddhist tantras is interesting as Shaivite
sects were probably contemporary rivals.  There is the famous chapter
in the Sarva-tathagata-tattva-samgraha-tantra where Vajrapani (who has
many of the attributes of Indra) overcomes Maheshvara (= Shiva).
Hope this is of some help.

Best wishes,
Stephen Hodge