Elst's river names

[Michael Witzel]

<I am resending this as this morning's mail was refused by INDOLOGY, due to
the 24 h restriction on sending more than 3 messages; thus, some answers
will come with delay as from now>


At 20:01 +0200 9/6/99, Koenraad Elst wrote:

>As for the Kubha, assuming the name is a loan: well, that river is in the
>Afghan border zone, not in the IE heartland as conceived by the
>India-as-homeland theory (Saraswati and upper Ganga basin).

Not only the Kubhaa but others, even in the Sarasvati area, see following
message.

> Further northwest, deeper into Afghanistan, the expanding Aryans went
>beyond the
>border, hence the typically colonial phenomenon that Aryan settlers gave the
>rivers names from back home in India: Harayu from Sarayu, Harahvaiti from
>Saraswati.

It has not been shown that speakers of the old IA language ("the Aryans" of
Elst ) moved *out* of India (the "border" in prehistoric times???).  In
fact, the IA language would have dropped *all* Indian linguistic
characteristics as soon as it crossed the Sulaiman/Kirthar  Ranges: even
its supposed decendants, the  closely  related and contemporaneous  Old
Iranian languages do not have them...  In short, a ridiculous proposition.
Quote me a case where an emigrant language did so (not American English,
Afrikaans, Surinamese Hindi/Bhojpuri,  etc.  etc. Even the truly emigrant
IA Gipsy languague of the Balkans still has, e.g.,  a present tense closely
resembling Skt & Prakrit : 'to do' : karav, karas, karal... and not a
Persian-, Armenian-like one, etc.)

And, unfortunately, the very name Saras-vatii 'having (many) ponds/lakes'
fits the Arachosian/Sistan  situation with the various  Hamum lakes much
better than the Indian one in the eastern Panjab (especially when you
insist on a Sar. flowing 'from the mountains to the ocean'...) It is  much
more likely that the Indian Sarasvatii ( > mod. Sarsuti) was named after
the Arachosian *sarasvatii >  Avestan Haraxvaitii/ O. Persian hara(h)uvati
(i.e. especially at the post-Indus stage when it was seriously drying up,
yielding desert deltas & lakes just like the Sistan  Hamums).

The same transfer of IA river names of Afghanistan into South Asia can be
seen in the *Sarayu
( > Avestan HarOiium (accc.) /O.Persian Haraiva , mod. Hare/Herat river )
--> U.P. Sarju,  Gomatii ( > modern Afgh. Gomal)  -->  U.P. Gumti, and the
various other Indian Sarasvatis  ...  Cf. also Avest. Viitanguhaitii = Ved.
*vitas-vatii) and Ved. Vitas-taa (Jhelum), *rasaa ( > Avest. Ranghaa,
N.Iranian/Scythian Rahaa as in Greek Rha~ 'Volga').  The same applies, in
all probability to IA *sindhu ( > Iran. Hindu)  ---> Vedic Sindhu "Indus".
The problem here is of one of the local N.Pak. substrate (Bur. sende etc.)
and appearances of Sindes etc. from the N. Caucasus to the Tedzhen (Merw
River). So, maybe a popular etymology (sindu as Thieme's 'border river')
grafted on an older, local form such as *sende  ...

 ==========================================================================
Michael Witzel                          Elect. Journ. of Vedic Studies
Harvard University                  www1.shore.net/~india/ejvs
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