Aryan invasion debate

[nanda chandran]

Selvakumar writes :
>Would you say just because we have works in English expounding on the
>     Buddhist philsophy or the Jainist philosophy, the American and
>     British (or Western) language(s),
>     literature and culture are undeniably of Indian influence ?
>     Tamil has works like cIRaappurranam of the poet umaRup pulavar
>     on themes of Islam and thEmbavaani a work on Christian themes and so
>on.

But are the non-Indian religious texts considered as the epitome of Tamizh
literature?
The "Aim Perum KApiyangal" or the five great epics of the Tamizh literature
are closely
related to Arya culture. So is probably the finest work in Tamizh literature
- the Kamba RAmAyanam (which the dravidian nationalists so
sadly ignore!). And this is what I'm trying to point out.

If you can point out a *substantial* literary corpus which shows no Arya
connections and
points to an original individual identity of the Tamizh people, it would be
more useful
for the discussion.

>     By the way the tamil work tirukkuRaL is not a Jaina work,
>     though it is often claimed so.

Just asserting that it is not so will not do. Please give us more proof. If
you want
I can give you the Samskrutam name by which it is referred to by the JainAs.
And they think that Thiruvalluvar was just the publisher and not the author.

>The brAhmanas may be people who have accepted Vedas
>     like Tamil Christians who have accepted Bible,
>     but apart from the few differences in spiritual and cultural
>     practices due to their  'religion' or 'sub-religion' they are
>     by and large Tamils in their ethnicity, language and culture.

By this I don't really understand as to where you're pointing! If the Tamizh
brAhmanas
are of the same race as the dravidian Tamizhs, then why not the rest of the
brAhmanas
in India?

>    The Saiva Siddhantha was systematised by
>    Meykandaar who is not a brAhmana
>    and the Saivite school is in part crystallized by Sekkizaar
>    who wrote PeriyapuraaNam.

There's a big difference between systematizing the doctrines of a religion
and
systematic philosophic thought.

>The only problem
>    is brAhmanas of non-tamil origin, who came from the north at various
>    periods, not knowing the tamil roots, try to
>    propagate the 'arya-centric' view as you are doing.

This is a new angle, but definitely worth pursuing. If somebody could come
up with
the earliest date of literature in Samskrutam in the Southern lands, we
could see
if the brAhmanas in early Tamil Nadu had a preference to Tamizh over
Samskrutam.

FYI, my mother and grandmother are both pulavar level in Tamizh (they just
laugh
outright at the claim that Tamizh is not their native tongue!). And both
have
nurtured enough Tamizh pattru in me since childhood that I'll never degrade
it on
any false claim. So I'm not 'Arya centric' as you presume, but am just
trying to
ascertain facts. So please let's not get carried away by our emotions and
let's try
to remain objective.

>     The art of Carnatic music is in no small measure advanced by
>     great Naagasuram players none of whom is a brAhmana (except may be one
>     or two who are not exponents anyway).

But this doesn't in anyway undermine the position of the 'trinity' in the
field.

>     Most of the Tamil brAhmanas are dravidians!

So why don't classical dravidian exponents (and there're quite a few on this
list!) accept it to be so?

And I'm not really clear with your stand regarding the AIT, for you assert
that the
Tamizh brAhmanas are dravidians! So please state your position in your next
post, so
we can be clear as to what're arguing for!

>There are people who have declared that it is a shame to call
>     Tamil a language when it has got only a few letters in the alphabet
>     which are different from the Sanskrit and now you think ('it seems')
>    'dravidian culture has no idenity of its own'!
>     Nothing new! Just as incorrect as ever!

I just wish you'd more facts to support your claims, instead of mere
assertions.


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