varna and jati

[Asha Naidu]

Nanda Chandran wrote:

>I believe they may be representative of ancient  incorporations and
>inclusions of darker non-brahmins into the brahmin community.

I find quite a few arguments on this list arguing in this vein. Brahmins
have to be fair and non brahmins (non dvijas) dark. This I think is totally
absurd. Skin complexion has go to do more with climatic conditions than any
racial origin. For eg : in Kerala, even the non-brahmins - the so called
drAvidians - the Menons, Nairs, Nambiars - are quite fair complexioned. And
I've even seen some Namboodiris not quite so fair! I would safely rule out
any argument of inter caste marriages, as the Namboodiris are amongst the
most casteist brahmins in BhArath.

My statement: "I believe they may be representative of ancient
incorporations and
>inclusions of darker non-brahmins into the brahmin community." was intended
>to suggest that the caste system at certain points of history may have been
>more flexible and permitted the co-option of individuals/groups based on
>their merits and not their race - i.e. that it was not always exclusive and
>that Brahmins are not always fair skinned! However in my experience, the
>Brahmins seem to have a higher proportion of "fair skinned" people than
>among the sudras in most parts of India.


>racial origin. For eg : in Kerala, even the non-brahmins - the so called
>drAvidians - the Menons, Nairs, Nambiars - are quite fair complexioned. And
>I've even seen some Namboodiris not quite so fair! I would safely rule out
>any argument of inter caste marriages, as the Namboodiris are amongst the
>most casteist brahmins in BhArath.

Bad example for the point you are making. The non-Brahmin castes in Kerala
have substantial Brahmin genetic heritage, through Kerala's unique social
setup. Among Nambudiri families, the tradition was that only the eldest son
married a Nambudiri girl, while the younger sons married (or had
'sambandham' with, to use Keralite terminology) women of other castes. The
children of these marriages were considered to belong to the mother's caste.


One would think that in this day and age, people would be more aware of
general scientific thought, and on this list, with anthropology too. It is
surprising, the frequency with which caste and race are confused with each
other. The concept of 'race' based on such a superficial (literally)
phenotypic characteristic like skin color is quite outmoded, except in
discussions of social prejudice in countries like the USA and South Africa.

Vidyasankar

I am no more confused than anyone else on this list with respect to race and
caste  and agree that people should be aware of general scientific thought
and suggest the following web page: http://home.earthlink.net/~ravi/genetics
where the "Genetics of Iyers' is discussed.  The Iyers who set up this page
seem to believe that they are genetically speaking, a distinct branch of the
Indo european and Central Asian tree along with some southeast Asian
haplotypes that they may have picked up while coming to India. Abstracts of
comparitive genetic studies are quoted in this article.








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