Age of the Veda ...

[Michael Witzel]

At 7:51 +0000 12/1/99, L.S.Cousins wrote:
>Michael Witzel writes:
>
>>* it is a pre-iron age (copper/bronze) age text of the Greater Panjab
>>(incl. parts of Afghanistan).
>>This sets a date ante quem of c. 1200, the earliest iron in India.
>>
>>(iron is, not surprisingly, found in an old section of the linguistically
>>slightly later text, the Atharvaveda, both SS and PS)

The AV belongs to the  -linguistically  and culturally- 2nd level of Vedic
texts, along with Samaveda, Yajurveda Mantras. Iron occurs in hymns which
are found in the *core* section of the text, both in the S'aunaka and
Paippalada versions, and thus must be old, in other words "ur-AV".

>Can you clarify this a little for me ?
>
>Two points:
>
>1. I have not kept up with the literature on this, but you must be
>referring to relatively recent archaeological evidence, since the
>date for the first iron in India used to be quite a bit later than
>this. How extensive and how reliable is the archaeological evidence
>that confirms such an early date ?

Well, the age of iron has been creeping up. Already by 1980 one could get
calibrated dates around 1000/1100 BCE. The very good account by D. P.
Agrawal, The archaeology of India, London 1982 still has your conservative,
low dates.

G. Erdosy, in Allchin et al., The archaeology of Early Historic S. Asia,
Cambridge 1995, p. 79 sqq. has the minimally earlier "10th- 6th cent." for
the early Iron Age as he stresses  calibrated dates for the *middle*
Painted Gray Ware period in te Gangetic Basin (801, 793 BCE and regards one
of 1057 as anomalous). -- But what about the early PGW??

For example, Rafique Mughal, Ancient Cholistan, Lahore 1997, -- who
certainly has no interest nor involvement in "Aryan" theories -- has PGW in
the Pakistani Hakra valley (lower Sarasvati) at 1100/1000-600/500 BCE, and
PGW  at "an overall time bracket of 1155-400 BC, calibrated"... "it seems
that the PGW sites in Pakistan ... constitute a group of early PGW sites
dating to the end of the second or beginning of the first mill. BC..."

I have seen slightly earlier dates elsewhere:
e.g., Erdosy in Allchin 1995: p. 83-4 has dates at Ahar (S. Rajasthan)
calibr. 1255, 1240, 1221 BCE,  Hallur 993 BCE, and Eran (S. Gangetic rim,
Vindhya) of even 1420 BCE calib. --  Pirak (E. Baluchistn) has "anomalous
dates" 1255, 1240, 1221 BCE.


All of this has to be separated, of course, from the occasional use of
meteoric  iron which is much earlier, but does not establish an iron age...


>2. We know that cultures at different stages of technological
>development can exist side by side for quite long periods. How can
>you rule out the possibility of some iron-age technology existing at
>the same time as other large areas which don't use iron at all ?

Certainly.  PGW are sites still have some stone and many copper
implements: they are cheaper.
The interesting point here is that the Rgveda does not yet have iron at all
(only copper/bronze :ayas) , but the next level of texts has it (zyaama,
kRSNa ayas)... It seems now that this 2nd level is divided from the later
stages of the RV only by some 3-4 generations which brings down the later
parts of the RV somewhat. - not to speak of coexisting cultures of
different technological level in roughly the same area (e.g. plains ::
hills!, note even modern Orissa)

And D. K. Chakrabarti long ago (1973?, 1977 ) pointed out that iron emerges
first in the Vindhyas (note the Munda Asur smiths even today), and not from
the west (Caucasus, Iran). Cf. Erdosy in Allchin 1995 p. 83. Note, however,
Pirak.

Hope that helps. MW.





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Michael Witzel                          Elect. Journ. of Vedic Studies
Harvard University                  www1.shore.net/~india/ejvs
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