From harryspier at HOTMAIL.COM  Sun Aug  1 03:58:26 1999
From: harryspier at HOTMAIL.COM (Harry Spier)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 99 23:58:26 -0400
Subject: Indian Calendar Astronomical Data
Message-ID: <161227051394.23782.11706356208600224439.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear list members:

     I had to make a list of the dates of the Indian Lunar holidays for the
year 2000.  Because I was unable to find either a panchanga or lunar
calendar for year 2000 I had to derive the start and end dates of the tithis
from astronomical data.  This I did from the Nasa JPL web site at
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.html .  It was quite easy but tedious.
I.e. extracting the longtitudes of the sun and moon wrt the ecliptic for
each hour of year 2000, and pasting the data into an excel spreadsheet and
deriving the phase angle and tithi from this.  But after doing this it
occured to me that a much easier way of doing this would be to work directly
with the formulas for deriving the longtitudes of the sun and the moon and
that this is probably available in an Indian source somewhere with all the
constants necessary for Indian calendar calculations.

     Do any of the list members know either these formulas (preferably with
the constants and degree of accuracy appropriate for the tithi derivation)
or a source where I can get them either in the USA or in India?  Also I
understand there is an "Indian Astronomical Ephemeris" and a Report from the
Committee for Calendar Reform (1957).  Does anyone know where I can get
copies of these?

Thanks in advance,


Harry


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Sun Aug  1 00:40:09 1999
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 99 01:40:09 +0100
Subject: Rejoining members
Message-ID: <161227051392.23782.13591424030211902118.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Some INDOLOGY members who had been posting to the list at too high a
frequency, or at too high a volume, were suspended from membership last
month.  Today, 1 Aug, they are welcome to rejoin the list.

The list has been ticking over at what I, at least, find a comforatable
and bearable level, i.e., at half a dozen or fewer messages per day.  It
is vacation time, so I imagine many members are getting their research
done, and may be away from their offices, in foreign libraries, etc.
Perhaps that partly explains the quietness.

I wish everyone the very best, and look forward to a continuation of the
list as a useful and unintrusive medium for scholarly exchange.

Sincerely,
Dominik Wujastyk
--
Founder, INDOLOGY list.




From Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE  Sun Aug  1 06:56:40 1999
From: Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE (Martin Gansten)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 99 08:56:40 +0200
Subject: Indian Calendar Astronomical Data
Message-ID: <161227051396.23782.18405336166408643265.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Harry,

Have you considered getting one of the many 'Vedic' (i.e., Hindu) astrology
programs available on the market? I believe several of them are capable of
generating panchangas. If this sounds useful to you, try browsing the Web
for 'Parashara's Light', 'Sri Jyoti', and/or 'Goravani Jyotish' -- so far as
I know, those are the leading brands.

Regards,
Martin Gansten




From rlass at SLIP.NET  Sun Aug  1 17:37:19 1999
From: rlass at SLIP.NET (Richard Lasseigne)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 99 10:37:19 -0700
Subject: Indian Calendar Astronomical Data
In-Reply-To: <19990801035827.56199.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051400.23782.1107568508654675004.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Following are several sources that may be of interest to you.


<bold>Calendrical Calculations

</bold>Presents in a completely algorithmic form, a description of
fourteen calendars including the Hindu lunar. This is a very good
resource for programmers and includes B Lisp source code.


Dershowitz and Reingold

Cambridge University Press


===


<bold>World Calendar

</bold>A shareware application (license may be purchased for $10) based
on the algorithems contained in Calendrical Calculations. It is
available for both Macintosh and Windows from
<underline>http://www.pandawave.com</underline>


===


<bold>Panditji

</bold>A commercial DOS application (license may be purchased for $100)
that can be run under Windows95/98. Contains a daily and monthly
almanic calendar (tithis, nakshatra, etc.) adjusted to the user's
location for any date from 470BC to 9999. Avaliable from
http://members.aol.com/rgopalan/panchang.html


==========================

>     I had to make a list of the dates of the Indian Lunar holidays
for the

>year 2000.  Because I was unable to find either a panchanga or lunar

>calendar for year 2000 I had to derive the start and end dates of the
tithis

>from astronomical data.  This I did from the Nasa JPL web site at

>http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.html .  It was quite easy but
tedious.

>I.e. extracting the longtitudes of the sun and moon wrt the ecliptic
for

>each hour of year 2000, and pasting the data into an excel spreadsheet
and

>deriving the phase angle and tithi from this.  But after doing this
it

>occured to me that a much easier way of doing this would be to work
directly

>with the formulas for deriving the longtitudes of the sun and the moon
and

>that this is probably available in an Indian source somewhere with all
the

>constants necessary for Indian calendar calculations.

>

>     Do any of the list members know either these formulas (preferably
with

>the constants and degree of accuracy appropriate for the tithi
derivation)

>or a source where I can get them either in the USA or in India?  Also
I

>understand there is an "Indian Astronomical Ephemeris" and a Report
from the

>Committee for Calendar Reform (1957).  Does anyone know where I can
get

>copies of these?

>

>Thanks in advance,

>

>

>Harry

>

>

>_______________________________________________________________

>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: attachment.bin
Type: text/enriched
Size: 2424 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/attachments/19990801/391afdf2/attachment.bin>

From Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE  Sun Aug  1 13:35:28 1999
From: Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE (Martin Gansten)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 99 15:35:28 +0200
Subject: Sanskrit bookstores in Bangalore/Chennai?
Message-ID: <161227051398.23782.1906409397321647165.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear list members,

I would very much appreciate any information about Sanskrit booksellers in
Bangalore and/or Chennai. I am particularly interested in all-Sanskrit
editions of astrological and/or other divinatory texts.

Thanks in advance,
Martin Gansten




From a018967t at BC.SEFLIN.ORG  Mon Aug  2 03:05:01 1999
From: a018967t at BC.SEFLIN.ORG (Aditya, the Hindu Skeptic)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 99 23:05:01 -0400
Subject: Mysteries of Asia
Message-ID: <161227051404.23782.13303499786019842668.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

There was a very interesting program on TLC cable channel last week
about India and influence of Indian culture and architecture in Cambodia
(Angkor vat). The two segments are also available for purchase by TLC
(www.tlc.com).
I would like to discuss it with those of you who had a chance to view it
specially about the reasons given for the lack of interest of European
scholars and tourists in South Indian temple architecture which is even
old and grander than Taj Mahal.
--
Have a peaceful and joyous day.
Aditya Mishra
Primary e-mail: a018967t at bc.seflin.org
Primary homepage: http://www.smart1.net/aditya
ICQ # 1131674 Mediaring # 1-954-746-0442
Fax #:  209-315-8571
Random thought of the day:
        A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on. ---Samuel
Goldwyn




From venkatraman_iyer at HOTMAIL.COM  Mon Aug  2 12:03:19 1999
From: venkatraman_iyer at HOTMAIL.COM (Venkatraman Iyer)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 99 05:03:19 -0700
Subject: parvata-dhvaja??
Message-ID: <161227051412.23782.3059603854456941124.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

Aware of different flag standards: garuDa-dhvaja held by ViSNu,
nandhi-dhvaja held by Ziva, makara-dhvaja held by Kaama/Pradyumna,
tAla-dhvaja held by SaMkarSaNa/BalarAma, ta. mayil koDi
(mayUra-dhvaja) with Murukan (Skanda), ...

In a similar manner, does parvatarAjan/himavAn hold
a parvata-dhvaja? May be in the DakSa sacrifice episode??

Thanks for any quotes,
V. Iyer




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET  Mon Aug  2 08:58:20 1999
From: kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET (S.Kalyanaraman)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 99 08:58:20 +0000
Subject: [Sanskrit bookstores in Bangalore/Chennai?]
Message-ID: <161227051407.23782.947441023942798243.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi,
Apart from Motilal Banarsidass in Luz, Mylapore, Chennai, there is, closeby,
Jayalakshmi Indological Book House, 6 Appar Swamy Koil Street, (Opp. Sanskrit
college), Mylapore, Chennai 600004; Tel. 4990539.
Best wishes, 
Dr. S. Kalyanaraman

Martin Gansten <Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE> wrote:
> Dear list members,
> 
> I would very much appreciate any information about Sanskrit booksellers in
> Bangalore and/or Chennai. I am particularly interested in all-Sanskrit
> editions of astrological and/or other divinatory texts.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Martin Gansten


____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com.




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Mon Aug  2 09:02:51 1999
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 99 10:02:51 +0100
Subject: Sanskrit bookstores in Bangalore/Chennai?
In-Reply-To: <199908011335.PAA12772@nomina.net.lu.se>
Message-ID: <161227051409.23782.4938435931457554796.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Vedanta Book House,
Near Uma Talkies,
VI Main,
Chamarajpet
Bangalore 560 018
phone: 607590

proprietor: Gopal Babu.

I can recommend Gopal and his bookshop very highly.  He has sold me many
texts, has taken the initiative in finding rare editions which he thought
would interest me, and he has shipped large quantities of books for me
from India to England, and they all arrived very well packed and very
safely.

Best,
DW

--
--
Dominik Wujastyk
Founder, INDOLOGY list




From yanom at KSUVX0.KYOTO-SU.AC.JP  Mon Aug  2 01:09:28 1999
From: yanom at KSUVX0.KYOTO-SU.AC.JP (Michio Yano)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 99 10:09:28 +0900
Subject: Indian Calendar Astronomical Data
Message-ID: <161227051403.23782.3249804062782711632.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A pancanga program based on the Suuyasiddhaanta
is available at my ftp site:

ccftp.kyoto-su.ac.jp/pub/doc/sanskrit/pancanga

where pancang2.exe is a MSDOS executable program

and pancang2.pas is its source program.

You can download them.

The program is intended for historial purpose, but
we can produce a purely traditional Indian calendar
of nay time without using elements of modern astronomy
except trigonometry.

The ftp server can be accessible from my homepage:
http://www.kyoto-su.ac.jp/~yanom

Michio Yano
yanom at cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp

PS I am now planning to revise the program so that you
can run it at my homepage.




From mpt at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Mon Aug  2 18:18:52 1999
From: mpt at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (M. Tandy)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 99 11:18:52 -0700
Subject: [Sanskrit bookstores in Bangalore/Chennai?]
In-Reply-To: <19990802032820.29218.qmail@wwcst088.netaddress.usa.net>
Message-ID: <161227051417.23782.9748969720684161983.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, S.Kalyanaraman wrote:
> Apart from Motilal Banarsidass in Luz, Mylapore, Chennai, there is, closeby,
> Jayalakshmi Indological Book House, 6 Appar Swamy Koil Street, (Opp. Sanskrit
> college), Mylapore, Chennai 600004; Tel. 4990539.
> Best wishes,
> Dr. S. Kalyanaraman
> Martin Gansten <Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE> wrote:
> > Dear list members,
> > I would very much appreciate any information about Sanskrit booksellers in
> > Bangalore and/or Chennai. I am particularly interested in all-Sanskrit
> > editions of astrological and/or other divinatory texts.
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Martin Gansten
        In Bangalore, try Vedanta Book House, VI Main, Chamarajapet,
Bangalore 560 018, Tel. 607590.

        MT




From smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM  Mon Aug  2 21:43:18 1999
From: smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM (Swaminathan Madhuresan)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 99 14:43:18 -0700
Subject: Ramanuja in Karnataka
Message-ID: <161227051420.23782.1878168124898314641.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Several of the inscriptions mentioning Ramanuja
>date from the early to mid 12th century, i.e.,
>either during Ramanuja's lifetime or shortly
>thereafter.  There are others which mention
>Ramanuja's immediate disciples such as Anantalvan
>and Kidambi Accan.

>Most of these inscriptions are with reference
>to Ramanuja's activity in Melkote and at a temple
>(I forget the name) prior to its renovation.

  There are no inscriptions in 11th/12th centuries mentioning
  Ramanuja's biographical details or his writings or
  activity at Melukote. Ie., during his lifetime.

  Shaivaite Nayanmars and Vaishnavaite Alvars are usually
  mentioned a century or so after their death in inscriptions.
  This may well be the situation for an undated inscription
  (not at Melukote) that begins with "Ramanujaya namah". Even
  though B. R. Gopal calls this undated inscription mentioning
  Ramanuja as of 12th century, it could be 13th century also.
  I think sufficient time has to elapse before saying,
  "Obesience to Ramanuja". No other details on Ramanuja
  in that inscription.

  Ramanuja's hagiography is built from literary accounts
  and not from inscriptions. Decades ago, M. H. Krishna matched
  one BeLagoLa inscription which he dated to 1098 A.D.
  and explained many of Ramanuja's hagiographical details.
  But this inscription is by Bukkaraya and must be after
  1316 A.D. B. R. Gopal, Ramanuja in Karnataka, 1983, p. 14
  "So far as the story of conversion of the Hoysala king
  vi.t.thala, identified with Vishnuvardhana, is concerned,
  the traditional accounts do not stand scrutiny.  ...
  We now know that Ballala III, to whose period this record
  is to be ascribed, ... also bore the epithet Vishnuvardhana
  after 1316 A.D."
  Regards,
  SM

_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com




From Anand.Nayak at UNIFR.CH  Mon Aug  2 15:31:15 1999
From: Anand.Nayak at UNIFR.CH (Anand Nayak)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 99 16:31:15 +0100
Subject: Sanskrit bookstores in Bangalore/Chennai?
In-Reply-To: <199908011335.PAA12772@nomina.net.lu.se>
Message-ID: <161227051415.23782.16569781638217908265.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Dear list members,
>
>I would very much appreciate any information about Sanskrit booksellers in
>Bangalore and/or Chennai. I am particularly interested in all-Sanskrit
>editions of astrological and/or other divinatory texts.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Martin Gansten


One of the following book-stores should be able to send you the books:

Asian Trading Corporation
150, Brigade Road,
Bangalore - 560 025
Phone: 5587807 Fax: 5596363
atc at mcdnet.ems.vsnl.net.in

Subhash Stores
72, Avenue Road
Bangalore-560002

Gangarams Bookstores
Mahatma Gandhi Road
Bangalore-560001

Good luck! A.Nayak



Sarvesham svastirbhavatu        May all be prosperous
sarvesham santirbhavatu         May all be  peaceful
sarvesham purnambhavatu         May all be whole
sarvesam mangalambhavatu        May all be happy

INSTITUT DE MISSIOLOGIE ET DE SCIENCE DES RELIGIONS
INSTITUT FUER MISSIONS- UND RELIGIONSWISSENSCHAFTEN
Universit? de Fribourg
Avenue de l'Europe 20
CH-1700 Fribourg
Tel:    026/ 300 74 38 (Office)
        026/ 475 27 91 (Private)
Fax;    026/ 300 9768

URL: http://www.unifr.ch/imr

Prof.Dr.Anand NAYAK        




From perichandra at YAHOO.COM  Mon Aug  2 23:19:51 1999
From: perichandra at YAHOO.COM (Periannan Chandrasekaran)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 99 00:19:51 +0100
Subject: solution to the "kuyava' etymology
Message-ID: <161227051423.23782.9203337799964191410.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On , Palaniappa <Palaniappa at AOL.COM> wrote:

.......
>
>In his communication to me, Madhav Deshpande said, "Looking at the
discussion
>so far, I believe the traditional commentators
>are merely guessing when it comes to the meaning/etymology of the name
>kuyava. .......
..."
>
>In light of Deshpande's comments, with some further research, I think I
have
>found a solution to the "kuyava" etymology.
>
>Classical Tamil provides a striking parallel to the Vedic material. CT has
a
>homonym "kuyam". It means "community of potters" as well as the
>"harvesting/reaping sickle". "kuya" is used as the first member of
compounds
>as in "kuyakkuTi" meaning "hamlet of potters".
>
>. "kuyam" in the sense of
harvesting/reaping
>sickle occurs in the following poem.
>
.....
>"koy" meaning "to pluck (as flowers), cut, reap, shear(as hair), snip off,
>choose, select. Cognates  of "koy" in the sense of "reap/harvest" occur in
all
>the branches of Dravidian. Hence, it must be traced to proto-Dravidian. I
>think the VS "kuyava" in the sense of "harvest" must be derived from this.
.....
>
>S. Palaniappan

I wonder if one needs to resort to "koy"...
The word "kuy" itself is employed as the root in words  which cover many
classical pursuits of craftsmanship:

pottery, cutting, perforation (of stones, beads, or to make wind
instruments), making/playing musical instruments, jewelry (perforation,
polishing etc), tailoring and so on.

This word has a strong parallel to the usage of "kal" (as in kalam for any
product of craftsmanship). Also worth considering the word Ta. "kai" for
"hand".

Even though CT references for most of these can be cited, for immediate
purposes I am citing the Cologne On Line Tamil Lexicon for many words:
kuyavan2  01 potter

kuyam  1. sickle, reaping-hook, curved knife; 2. razor; 3. potter caste

kuyil 04 hole, perforation

kuyavu  car, chariot

kuyin2ar  1. those who polish and perforate gems; 2. tailors

kuyin2  02 deed, work

kuyiluvam
 playing on stringed instruments, drums, tabrets, clarionets, horns


kuyiluvar

players on stringed instruments, drums, tabrets, clarionets, horns

kuyalan2
  man of great skill, dexterity

kuyiRRu-tal

01 1. to tell, say, utter; to lay down, as rules
02 1. to make, construct, form perform; 2. to enchase, set, as gems

kuyil(lu)-tal
02 1. to make, execute, shape, construct; 2. to weave;
3. to plait, braid, intwine; 4. to bore, perforate,
tunne; 5. to enchase, set as precious stones;
1. to take place; 2. to be thick, close, crowded; 3. to sound, play


Regards
Chandra




From harryspier at HOTMAIL.COM  Tue Aug  3 06:56:55 1999
From: harryspier at HOTMAIL.COM (Harry Spier)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 99 02:56:55 -0400
Subject: Rules for dates of observance of Indian Holidays
Message-ID: <161227051425.23782.15244470749296842578.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear list members:

I am trying to obtain the rules for the dates of observance of the following
list of Hindu holidays.  The type of information I need is similar to the
following examples as given to me by Anand Hudli in a private e-mail:

1) ShivarAtri is to be observed on that day when the 14th tithi of dark
fortnight of the month of Maagha prevails at the nishItha kaala (midnight).

2) sankashhTa chaturthi (in honor of Ganesha) is to be observed
during any month when the fourth tithi of the dark half of the
month prevails during moonrise.

3)ekAdashii The 10th tithi should have ended at least 1 hour 36 minutes
before sunrise on the day when the fast is observed. And if the 12th tithi
prevails at the time of two consecutive sunrises, the
fast should be observed on the second day.

ETC.

The list of holidays I require the information on is as follows:
Makara Sankranti, Ganesha Jayanti, Vasant Panchami, Rathasaptami,
Shivaratri, Holi, Dhuli Vandan, Tukaram Beej
Ranga Panchami, Ekanath Shashthi, Gudhi Padva, Ram Navami,
Hanuman Jayanti, Shivaji Jayanti, Akshaya Tritiya,
Shankaracharya Jayanti, Gangotpatti, Asadha Ekadashi
Guru Purnima, Namdev punyatithi, Nagpanchami
Rakhi day, Krishna Birthday, Gopalkala
Ganesha Chaturthi, Anant Chaturdashi, Pitra Paksha start
Pitra Paksha end, Navaratri start, Navaratri Saraswati puja
Navaratri Lakshmi puja, Navaratri Durgashtami
Dassera, Vijaya Dashami, Sharad Purnima
Kojagiri Purnima , Tukaram's Punyatithi,Govatsa Dvadashi
Dhanteras, Narak Chaturdashi, Diwali
Kartika Ekadashi, Tulasi Vivaha Samapta
Vaikuntha Chaturdashi, End of Chaturmasi
Tripura Purnima, Jnaneshwar's Punyatithi
Dev Diwali, Skanda Shashthi, Gita Jayanti


If any members can give me the rules for any of the above it would be
greatly appreciated.


Thanks in advance,

Harry



_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From venkatraman_iyer at HOTMAIL.COM  Tue Aug  3 12:16:29 1999
From: venkatraman_iyer at HOTMAIL.COM (Venkatraman Iyer)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 99 05:16:29 -0700
Subject: parvata-dhvaja??
Message-ID: <161227051429.23782.11459105842830016480.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

<<<                 I don't know if this is of significance to you.
                 But there is a Malayadhvaja who is a Pandya
         king fighting on the side of the Pandavas in the
         Maha Bharatha War. He is one of the fathers-in-law of
         Arjuna.
                 Again there is another  Malayadhvaja who is
         a Pandya. He is the father of Devi Miinaakshi or
         Thadaathagai as she was known earlier.   >>>

Thanks, Dr. Jayabarathi. Medieval authors in Tamil,
well-versed in Sanskrit, mention parvata = malaya (potiyil).

Parvati is parvata-rAja's daughter and,
Miinaakshi, who is identified with Parvati, came to
be known malaya-dhvaja's daughter in later legends.
My question is whether there is a mention of
Parvati's father holding the parvata (himalaya) emblem?


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From jaybee at TM.NET.MY  Tue Aug  3 05:54:09 1999
From: jaybee at TM.NET.MY (jaybee)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 99 13:54:09 +0800
Subject: parvata-dhvaja??
In-Reply-To: <19990802120319.57829.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051427.23782.3080228180177370257.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

At 05:03 AM 8/2/99 PDT, you wrote:
>Dear Indologists,
>
>Aware of different flag standards: garuDa-dhvaja held by ViSNu,
>nandhi-dhvaja held by Ziva, makara-dhvaja held by Kaama/Pradyumna,
>tAla-dhvaja held by SaMkarSaNa/BalarAma, ta. mayil koDi
>(mayUra-dhvaja) with Murukan (Skanda), ...
>
>In a similar manner, does parvatarAjan/himavAn hold
>a parvata-dhvaja? May be in the DakSa sacrifice episode??
>
>Thanks for any quotes,
>V. Iyer

        Dear Mr. Iyer,

                I don't know if this is of significance to you.
                But there is a Malayadhvaja who is a Pandya
        king fighting on the side of the Pandavas in the
        Maha Bharatha War. He is one of the fathers-in-law of
        Arjuna.
                Again there is another  Malayadhvaja who is
        a Pandya. He is the father of Devi Miinaakshi or
        Thadaathagai as she was known earlier.

        Regards

        Jayabarathi
================================




From shrinivast at HOTMAIL.COM  Wed Aug  4 16:09:42 1999
From: shrinivast at HOTMAIL.COM (Shrinivas Tilak)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 99 09:09:42 -0700
Subject: Source of a Validating Principle in Sanskrit Grammar
Message-ID: <161227051436.23782.12802557754246136766.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

    Does anyone know the source of the following validating principle in
Sanskrit grammar "...yathottara munInAm prAmANyam?" Apparently, it was used
by early commentators (vArttikakAra) to "overrule" (or to validate departure
from) PANini. Later commentators (bhASyakAra), in turn, used it for similar
purposes. I wonder if other schools, too, employed this effective
hermeneutic strategy to legitimate chnage or alternative interpretations.
    Shrinivas Tilak



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM  Wed Aug  4 18:15:36 1999
From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 99 11:15:36 -0700
Subject: use of "draavi.da"?
Message-ID: <161227051438.23782.10532103482236711314.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Prof. Deshpande,

Greetings. I have read somewhere that a purana (bhavishya?
brahmavaivarta?) talks about *pancha drAviDa brahmanas* belonging
to 1) tamil 2) andhra 3) kannada 4) maharashtra and 5) gujarat
regions. Is this correct?

Of course, drAviDa is a sanskritzed form for the term, Tamil.
   K. Zvelebil, Tamil literature, E. J. Brill, 1975 p. 53
   "It is obvious that the Sanskrit drAviDa, Pali damila, damiLo
   and Prakrit dAviDa are all etymologically connected with
  "tamizh" [48]
  [48] The *r* in tamizh > drAviDa is a hypercorrect insertion,
   cf. an analogical case of DED 1033 Ta. Ma. kamuku, Tu. kaGgu,
   "areca palm"; Skt. kramu."
   p.140
   "In Saundaryalaharii 76 ascribed to zaGkara, Campantar
   is called draviDazizu. For this tradition of "the boy-saint",
   cf. also his other epithets, ALuTaiya piLLaiyAr ..."

--------------------------------------

   K. Zvelebil, Companion studies to the history of
   Tamil literature, E. J. Brill, 1992 p. 18
   "the word Dravidian, coined by R. Caldwell, in 1856 on the
   base of the Sanskrit term draaviDa- found in a 7th century AD
   Sanskrit author [kumArila bhaTTa], is in fact most probably
   connected with the indigenous term for the Tamizh language, ie.,
   tamizh, whereby the development might have been
   *tamiz > *damiL > damiLa-/damila- and further, with the
   intrusive 'hyper-correct' (or perhaps analogical) -r-
   into draaviDa- 'Dravidian'.

   cf. the forms damiLa-, damila- occuring in Prakrit, and the
   alternative Sanskrit for dramila-. The -m/-v alternation is a
   common phenomenon in Dravidian."
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,
N. Ganesan





_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Wed Aug  4 15:55:46 1999
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 99 11:55:46 -0400
Subject: use of "draavi.da"?
Message-ID: <161227051434.23782.10836718461799922128.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hello,
        Monier-Williams says that the Sanskrit word "draavi.da", among
other things, collectively refers to the speakers of Telugu, Kannada,
Tamil, Malayalam, and Tulu.  He does not cite any references for such a
use from any classical source.  I would very much like to find out if
anyone has come across such a use of this word either in Sanskrit or in
Dravidian language sources? Of course, we often use this word in this
sense in modern times, but was there such a collective single reference in
pre-modern times?
        Best,
                                        Madhav Deshpande




From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO  Wed Aug  4 10:16:29 1999
From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 99 12:16:29 +0200
Subject: Obituary
Message-ID: <161227051432.23782.17031512882108133397.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

OBITUARY

Knut Kristiansen, who taught New Indic languages at the University of Oslo
until a year ago, died at the beginning of July, brutally murdered in his flat
by an intruder. Knut Kristiansen was 71 years old.

During his career, Knut Kristiansen studied and taught a large number of Indian
languages, in particular Hindi and Urdu. He was Norway's foremost expert on
Gypsy languages, specialising in the so-called Tater language, a dialect of
Romani thought to have disappeared, but eventually found and described by
Kristiansen. The Tater language is a NIA language in the last stage of decay,
with an Indian vocabulary but Norwegian grammar.

Knut Kristiansen's learning was immense and legendary. Due to an unnecessarily
hypercritical attitude to his own work, he published little during his career,
but shared his knowledge and research with students and colleagues in the most
generous manner. Knut Kristiansen invested a great deal of work in the
maintenance and enlargement of the Indological book collection at the
University of Oslo, turning it into a first-rate research tool. There is a sad
irony in the fact that this excellent and highly useful collection was broken
up and transferred to various sections of the new University Library of Oslo
just a few weeks before Kristiansen passed away, a fact that caused him much
grief.

Knut Kristiansen had a great capacity for warmth and made many friends during
his career. When in a convivial mood, he was a brilliant and witty
conversationalist and storyteller who delighted his "audience" with accounts of
his travels and stays in South Asia. He also constituted one of the last links
to the great period of Norwegian Indology, the period of Sten Konow and Georg
Morgenstierne, whose student he was. When he died, Knut Kristiansen was busy
organising and cataloguing papers and research material left by Morgenstierne.
Tragically, his death also represents an irreparable loss to this work.

Lars Martin Fosse


Dr. art. Lars Martin Fosse
Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114,
0674 Oslo
Norway
Phone/Fax: +47 22 32 12 19
Email: lmfosse at online.no




From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM  Wed Aug  4 20:25:38 1999
From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 99 13:25:38 -0700
Subject: use of draavi.da?
Message-ID: <161227051447.23782.15663458182951853970.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A part of Dr. Zydenbos' post on 20-dec-98,

B?htlingk and Roth, Sanskrit-W?rterbuch (Delhi reprint 1990, of the
1855-1875 original), vol. 3, col. 797: "N. pr. eines Volkes (und des
von ihm bewohnten Gebietes) an der Ostk?ste des Dekhan's" (with
references to the Mahaabhaarata, Hariva.m;sapuraa.na and
Bhaagavatapuraa.na); "Collectivname f?r 5 V?lker: aandhraa.h
kar.naa.takaa;s caiva gurjaraa dravi.daas tathaa / mahaaraa.s.traa
iti khyaataa.h pa;ncaite dravi.daa.s sm.rtaa.h//"



_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Wed Aug  4 20:02:52 1999
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 99 16:02:52 -0400
Subject: Source of a Validating Principle in Sanskrit Grammar
In-Reply-To: <19990804160943.60356.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051443.23782.3484565178731457877.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This principle is used explicitly for the first time by Kaiya.ta in his
commentary Pradiipa on the Mahaabhaa.sya (Motilal Banarsidass edn., Vol.
I, Sec. I, p. 217, 1967, on Panini 1.1.29).  Two of my articles relevant
for this principle are :

        Evolution of the notion of praamaa.nya in the Paninian tradition,
Histoire Epistemologie Langage, Tome XX, Fasc 1, 1998, Paris, pp. 5-28.

        Who inspired Panini?  Reconstructing the Hindu and Buddhist
Counter-claims, JAOS, Vol. 117, Number 3, July-September 1997.

        Best,
                                        Madhav Deshpande


On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Shrinivas Tilak wrote:

>     Does anyone know the source of the following validating principle in
> Sanskrit grammar "...yathottara munInAm prAmANyam?" Apparently, it was used
> by early commentators (vArttikakAra) to "overrule" (or to validate departure
> from) PANini. Later commentators (bhASyakAra), in turn, used it for similar
> purposes. I wonder if other schools, too, employed this effective
> hermeneutic strategy to legitimate chnage or alternative interpretations.
>     Shrinivas Tilak
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>




From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Wed Aug  4 20:08:08 1999
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 99 16:08:08 -0400
Subject: use of "draavi.da"?
In-Reply-To: <19990804181537.58646.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051445.23782.1115689339457348419.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I am familiar with the term Panca Dravida brahmanas, but not with the use
of Dravida covering all (or five, as Monier Williams says) languages which
we call Dravidian today.  That is what I would like to know.  Thanks.
                                Madhav Deshpande

On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, N. Ganesan wrote:

> Dear Prof. Deshpande,
>
> Greetings. I have read somewhere that a purana (bhavishya?
> brahmavaivarta?) talks about *pancha drAviDa brahmanas* belonging
> to 1) tamil 2) andhra 3) kannada 4) maharashtra and 5) gujarat
> regions. Is this correct?
>
> Of course, drAviDa is a sanskritzed form for the term, Tamil.
>    K. Zvelebil, Tamil literature, E. J. Brill, 1975 p. 53
>    "It is obvious that the Sanskrit drAviDa, Pali damila, damiLo
>    and Prakrit dAviDa are all etymologically connected with
>   "tamizh" [48]
>   [48] The *r* in tamizh > drAviDa is a hypercorrect insertion,
>    cf. an analogical case of DED 1033 Ta. Ma. kamuku, Tu. kaGgu,
>    "areca palm"; Skt. kramu."
>    p.140
>    "In Saundaryalaharii 76 ascribed to zaGkara, Campantar
>    is called draviDazizu. For this tradition of "the boy-saint",
>    cf. also his other epithets, ALuTaiya piLLaiyAr ..."
>
> --------------------------------------
>
>    K. Zvelebil, Companion studies to the history of
>    Tamil literature, E. J. Brill, 1992 p. 18
>    "the word Dravidian, coined by R. Caldwell, in 1856 on the
>    base of the Sanskrit term draaviDa- found in a 7th century AD
>    Sanskrit author [kumArila bhaTTa], is in fact most probably
>    connected with the indigenous term for the Tamizh language, ie.,
>    tamizh, whereby the development might have been
>    *tamiz > *damiL > damiLa-/damila- and further, with the
>    intrusive 'hyper-correct' (or perhaps analogical) -r-
>    into draaviDa- 'Dravidian'.
>
>    cf. the forms damiLa-, damila- occuring in Prakrit, and the
>    alternative Sanskrit for dramila-. The -m/-v alternation is a
>    common phenomenon in Dravidian."
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Regards,
> N. Ganesan
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Wed Aug  4 18:26:40 1999
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 99 19:26:40 +0100
Subject: Please post : Update of upaniShads page (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227051441.23782.17545732263157603756.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:17:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sanskrit Team Member <sanskrit_documents at yahoo.com>

Subject: Please post : Update of upaniShads page

namaste,
       The following post is regarding the update of the upaniShads
page on the Sanskrit documents page. I request you to kindly post it on
the Indology List for the benefit of the members.

Thank you,
sanskrit at cheerful.com

namo namaH |
        The upaniShad page of the Sanskrit document site has been
updated to include more upaniShads. In addition to the principal
upaniShads, other upaniShads
like the atharvashira and kaula have been added to the web site. The
newly added upaniShads are marked with a 'nava' superscript in
devanaagarii.
Interested readers are welcome to utilize the same at :
http://sanskrit.gde.to/doc_upanishhat/doc_upanishhat.html
and its mirror sites.
Contributions in the form of additional encodings and proof-reads are
welcome.
Thank you.

Please send suggestions and enquiries to either sanskrit at cheerful.com
or reply to sanskrit_documents at yahoo.com




From arjunwadkar at MCMAIL.COM  Thu Aug  5 05:17:07 1999
From: arjunwadkar at MCMAIL.COM (K S Arjunwadkar)
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 99 06:17:07 +0100
Subject: use of "draavi.da"?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908041151200.21991-100000@joust.rs.itd.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <161227051449.23782.1160749108408352797.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Date sent:              Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:55:46 -0400
Send reply to:          Indology <INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
From:                   Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at UMICH.EDU>
Subject:                use of "draavi.da"?
To:                     INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK

> Hello,
>         Monier-Williams says that the Sanskrit word "draavi.da", among
> other things, collectively refers to the speakers of Telugu, Kannada,
> Tamil, Malayalam, and Tulu.  He does not cite any references for such a
> use from any classical source.  I would very much like to find out if
> anyone has come across such a use of this word either in Sanskrit or in
> Dravidian language sources? Of course, we often use this word in this
> sense in modern times, but was there such a collective single reference in
> pre-modern times?
>         Best,
>                                         Madhav Deshpande

Reply/August 4

Apte's Dictionary records this word (v.l. drAviDa) as occurring in
this sense in DaNDin's DazakumAracarita. BANabhaTTa also
describes a 'jarad-draviDa'.
KSA




From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Fri Aug  6 12:37:32 1999
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 99 08:37:32 -0400
Subject: use of "dravida" in Sanskrit?
Message-ID: <161227051451.23782.2133754728962677682.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This is what I am trying to find out.  The term Panca Dravida includes
Maharashtrian and Gujarati Brahmins besides the Dravida (= Tamil),
Karnataka and Andhra Brahmins.  This use of the word is obviously not
coextensive with what we call Dravidian language areas today.  The other
uses of Dravi.da or Draavi.da cited by Apte and others seem to refer to
Tamil speakers (like Appaya Dikshita in d.rpyad-draavi.da ... etc).  The
Vizvagu.naadarzacampuu also seems to use this term to refer to Tamil
speakers, and not to refer to speakers of other Dravidian languages. Are
the speakers of Telugu, Kannada, and Malayalam (when it is distinguished
from Tamil) referred to by the term Draavi.da in any (pre-modern,
pre-Caldwell) Sanskrit works.  I hope this makes the question more
specific.
                                                Madhav Deshpande




From smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM  Fri Aug  6 16:10:26 1999
From: smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM (Swaminathan Madhuresan)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 99 09:10:26 -0700
Subject: BeLagoLa in Sravana beLagoLa
Message-ID: <161227051455.23782.671885649176126944.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Esteemed Indologists,

I read about the toponymy for bElUru and beLagAm connected
with the tamil titles, vEL/vELir/vELALar/veLLALan in this list.

Sravana beLagoLa, the famous Jain shrine exhibiting the nude ascetic,
in a monolith, contains the word, "beL-". Is this "beLa" cognate with
 tamil veL-? What does "beLagoLa" mean? A "tank dug by beLa"?
Any inscriptional data is much appreciated.

Yours,
SM



_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com




From garzilli at SHORE.NET  Fri Aug  6 14:59:17 1999
From: garzilli at SHORE.NET (Enrica Garzilli)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 99 10:59:17 -0400
Subject: JSAWS: Conferences announc.
Message-ID: <161227051453.23782.906227666811626379.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

You can find the complete info on the 2 conferences below on the
Asiatica Association web page http://www.asiatica.org
Please do not write to me for more info.                     EG
********************************************************************
1) Sakyadhita -- 6th International Conference on Buddhist Women:
      *Women as Peacemakers: Self, Family, Community World*

Where: Lumbini, Nepal
When : February 1 to 7, 2000
***************************************************************
2) Symposium and Participatory Forum, to be held at the University
of British Columbia in Vancouver, BC, Canada.

                  "WOMEN'S STUDIES: ASIAN CONNECTIONS"

Friday November 3rd - Sunday November 5th, 2000

****************************************************************
Bagchee Associates, a leading Indological book dealer supports the
Asiatica Association (http://www.bagchee.com)

****************************END*********************************
Dr. Enrica Garzilli                 University of Perugia (ITALY)
Istituto di Linguistica                      Piazza Morlacchi, 11
06123 Perugia                  Tel./Fax: +39-75-585 3755 (office)
Editor-in-Chief,
Intl. Journ. of Tantric Studies, Journal of S. Asia Women Studies
htpp://www.asiatica.org/
*****************************************************************




From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Aug  6 22:43:34 1999
From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 99 15:43:34 -0700
Subject: PataJjali a form of ZeSa
Message-ID: <161227051457.23782.8424004065818621466.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dr. Deshpande once asked:
  > Patanjali is known to KaiyaTa (11th cent. A.D.)
  >as an incarnation of Seza, the serpent divinity.  This is also
  >depicted iconographically in the Cidambaram NaTarAja temple.  Does
  >anyone know of older iconographic or textual sources for this
  >motif?  I have a suspicion that Saiva Agama texts may contain such
  >references.  I have looked, but have not yet found any older
  >references.

  Agastya, the first tamil grammarian, learns from
Dakshinamurti in the malaya mountains. This myth starts atleast
by 5-6th centuries. This god-grammarian myth percolates to all the
Tamil country and then as Panini/Patanjali myths at Cidambaram
to all over India.

Patanjali as ZeSamuni is first depicted iconographically
in a Vaishnavaite setting! In the 8th century.
Namakkal cave temples depict Patanjali as ZeSa muni.
There are 8th c. inscriptions on this "atiyendra viSNugRham".
Reference: R, Champakalakshmi, VaiSNava iconography in the Tamil
country, 1981, p. 71, In the Namakkal Ranganatha cave temple,
see the Patanjali muni along with Tumburu and Narada.
What is more interesting is in the neighboring bhUvarAha cave temple
at Namakkal, there are four rishis above the hand of Varaha.
They are Sanaka, Sanandana, SanAtana and SanatkumAra -
usually associated with daxinamurti! Even though Saivism succeeded in
appropriating the four rishis and patanjali as disciples of
Dakshinamurti or Nataraja, Namakkal caves show the vaishnavaite
attempt.

Patanjali as ZeSamuni is sung first by TirumUlar (7th century)
and by ManikkavAcakar (8-9th century).  Later, Vaacaspati Mizra
(who writes on Sankara's bhAshyas) and Abhinavagupta (who writes about
many Saivaite ideas coming from the South) take Patanjali as a zeSa
divinity. Interestingly MadhurAjayogi praises Abhinava as
Dakshinamurti himself seated in vIrAsana posture. While no daxinamurti
icons in vIrAsana exist from North India, 1000s exist in Pallava and
Chola temples.

Regards,
N. Ganesan


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From essare at SATYAM.NET.IN  Sun Aug  8 20:59:35 1999
From: essare at SATYAM.NET.IN (Subir Ghosh/Richa Bansal)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 99 02:29:35 +0530
Subject: E-zine
Message-ID: <161227051459.23782.12269128962373929339.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Calling all ye Indologists and those interested in Indology




The Reviewer is a just relaunched FREE weekly e-zine of book reviews. The Reviewer, however, has a commitment ?not promises? to keep. It is against junk non-fiction (read, infotainment) and pulp fiction that is unabashedly promoted by a host many periodicals the world over. For The Reviewer, there is room for everything except trash. Yet, it will not cater to the experts-only categories. Downright text books too are not meant for The Reviewer. 

To subscribe, send a blank mail to TheReviewer-subscribe at onelist.com.

 



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/attachments/19990809/9fac6e67/attachment.htm>

From 103322.630 at COMPUSERVE.COM  Mon Aug  9 13:55:14 1999
From: 103322.630 at COMPUSERVE.COM (Ulrich T. Kragh)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 99 09:55:14 -0400
Subject: ZAntideva - Digital Sanskrit Texts
Message-ID: <161227051469.23782.11203975126374099868.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

For an electronic version of the Tibetan text of bodhicarayavatAra, the
first place I would check would be the homepage of Asian Classics Input
Project (also known simply as ACIP). I do not have the internet address at
hand, but any internet search with the above name will definitely bring you
there.

With regards,
Ulrich T. Kragh
University of Copenhagen




From Toru.Tomabechi at ORIENT.UNIL.CH  Mon Aug  9 08:13:29 1999
From: Toru.Tomabechi at ORIENT.UNIL.CH (Toru Tomabechi)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 99 10:13:29 +0200
Subject: IABS Conference/Abstracts available
Message-ID: <161227051465.23782.9693497521006793279.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

(This message has been sent to INDOLOGY and budschol mailing
lists. Sorry for inconvenience if you received it more than once.)

Dear list members,

Abstracts to the IABS Conference papers are now available for download
(in PDF and Gzipped PostScript; no HTML version) at:

      http://www-orient.unil.ch/

The full program of the Conference will shortly be available on our web
site.

(If you have any questions about the abstracts, please send me a
message *off-list*. Thanks!)

Best wishes,

Toru Tomabechi
University of Lausanne




From athr at LOC.GOV  Mon Aug  9 14:48:45 1999
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 99 10:48:45 -0400
Subject: Oriya short stories book for exchange
Message-ID: <161227051472.23782.15057191393823753958.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The following duplicate is available for exchange or gift with
research libraries have an exchange relationship with the Library of
Congress:


98-906504


Rauta, Samyukta.

  Nibuja ghara / Samykta Rauta.  1st ed.  Batesvara, Salepura :

Rupambara Prakasani, 1998.  104 p. ; 22 cm.



LC CALL NUMBER: PK2579.R25625 N53 1998  <Asian Ori>



NOTES:

  Short stories.

  In Oriya.



ACQUISITION SOURCE:

  Library of Congress -- New Delhi Field Office Rs45.00

Allen Thrasher



Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
LJ-150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
U.S.A.
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
email: athr at loc.gov

The opinions expressed do not necessarily represent those of the
Library of Congress.




From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT  Mon Aug  9 16:04:07 1999
From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (birgit kellner)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 99 18:04:07 +0200
Subject: ZAntideva - Digital Sanskrit Texts
Message-ID: <161227051474.23782.12456197237898723656.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

"Ulrich T. Kragh" wrote:

> For an electronic version of the Tibetan text of bodhicarayavatAra, the
> first place I would check would be the homepage of Asian Classics Input
> Project (also known simply as ACIP). I do not have the internet address at
> hand, but any internet search with the above name will definitely bring you
> there.
>

The latest ACIP release (number IV) contains the Tibetan text (Derge version)
of the Bodhicaryaavataara (file number TD3871) and also a host of commentaries,
check http://www.asianclassics.org/download/TengSkt.html for a list of all
available Tanjur-texts, and
http://www.asianclassics.org/download/texts/tengyur/TD3871M.ACT for the BCA in
particular.

Best,

--
Birgit Kellner
Institut f. Tibetologie und Buddhismuskunde / Institute for Tibetan and
Buddhist Studies
Universitaet Wien / Vienna University




From chris.eade at ANUGPO.ANU.EDU.AU  Mon Aug  9 08:28:03 1999
From: chris.eade at ANUGPO.ANU.EDU.AU (Chris Eade)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 99 18:28:03 +1000
Subject: how are tithis counted?
Message-ID: <161227051467.23782.12446717021779923356.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

As a consequence of computer dating some 500 South Indian inscriptions I am
interested to know whether scholars are in the habit of assuming that the
tithi mentioned in historical texts is considered to be necessarily the one
that is in force at dawn (6 a.m.).
        What do members think? Do you adopt the dawn tithi as the one that
is in force for that entire day, or do you look to the tithi that might
have come into action later in the day?




From rbm49 at STUDENT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ  Mon Aug  9 07:27:43 1999
From: rbm49 at STUDENT.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ (Mahoney, Richard B)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 99 19:27:43 +1200
Subject: ZAntideva - Digital Sanskrit Texts
Message-ID: <161227051462.23782.15450878844072540286.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Subscribers

Over the next while, I am going to work on the text of "Engaging in the
Bodhisattva Deeds" or "BodhisattvacharyAvatAra" of ZAntideva.

Do any Subscribers know if this text is available in electronic form?  I
would be most interested in a Sanskrit version but if anyone knows of a
Tibetan version that would also be helpful.

Many thanks in advance.

Richard Mahoney




From David.Jonsson at DJK.SE  Tue Aug 10 10:27:29 1999
From: David.Jonsson at DJK.SE (David Jonsson)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 99 11:27:29 +0100
Subject: The veda of war
Message-ID: <161227051476.23782.8842319042962473217.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I heard from a ISKCON member that there is a veda dealing with matters of
war. It was called something like daur veda. Where can I locate more info
regarding this?

David




From athr at LOC.GOV  Tue Aug 10 15:32:44 1999
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 99 11:32:44 -0400
Subject: International Association of Orientalist Librarians. Bulletin.              Extra copies
Message-ID: <161227051483.23782.6026292984049283876.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The following are available for exchange with any library having an
exchange relationship with the Library of Congress:

International Association of Orientalist Librarians. Bulletin.
Nos. 32/33, 36/37, 40, 41/42


Allen Thrasher



Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
LJ-150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
U.S.A.
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
email: athr at loc.gov

The opinions expressed do not necessarily represent those of the
Library of Congress.




From gabriele.zeller at UB.UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE  Tue Aug 10 12:25:43 1999
From: gabriele.zeller at UB.UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE (Gabriele Zeller)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 99 13:25:43 +0100
Subject: Adress Prof Bodewitz
Message-ID: <161227051478.23782.4638272565432759372.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anybody know how to contact Prof. Hendrik W. Bodewitz in
Utrecht?

Thanks for your help.

Gabriele
----------------------------------------------------------
Dr Gabriele Zeller
Universit?tsbibliothek T?bingen
Wilhelmstr. 32
72016 T?bingen
Tel:+49-7071-2974030
Fax:+49-7071-293123

http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/ub
----------------------------------------------------------




From athr at LOC.GOV  Tue Aug 10 20:22:22 1999
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 99 16:22:22 -0400
Subject: Veda of war
Message-ID: <161227051485.23782.568176086042055329.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The Library of Congress has the following versions of the Dhanurveda:

ITEMS 1-3 OF 4                 SET 4: BRIEF DISPLAY
FILE: LOC3
                                (DESCENDING ORDER)

1. 91-906786: Vasistha, Rishi.  Vasistha's Dhanurveda samhita : text

     with English translation /  1st ed.  Delhi : J.P. Pub. House,
1991.  80
     p., {10} p. of plates : ill. ; 23 cm.

     LC CALL NUMBER: U805 .V3713 1991

2. 90-905012: Vasistha, Rishi.  Dhanurvedasamhita /  Bambai :
Khemaraja
     Srikrsnadasa Prakasana, 1990.  66 p. ; 20 cm.

     LC CALL NUMBER: U805 .V3716 1990  <Orien Hind>

3. 89-905952: Vasistha, Rishi.  Dhanurvedasamhita /  Prathamavrttih.

     Varanasi, Bharata : Caukhambha Samskrta Samsthana, 1989.  24,

     84 p. : ill. ; 23 cm.

     LC CALL NUMBER: U805 .V3716 1989  <Orien Hind>

4. 85-909886: Krsnamacarya, 18th cent.  Dhanurvidyavilasamu
{microform}
     /  Madras : Govt. Oriental Manuscripts Library, 1950.  56, 170
p. :
     geneal. table ; 24 cm.

     LC CALL NUMBER: Microfiche 90/61314 (G)  <So Asia>

>?From the complete records the English translation in 1 seems to be
from the same text as the Hindi trans. in 3.  No. 4 is in Telugu.

The LOC also has an uncataloged  manuscript Dhanurveda which I have
not been had the time to compare with these printed eds.  As far as I
know there is no study on whether the various printed and manuscript
Dhanurvedas are one work or several independent ones.

Allen Thrasher
Asian Division
Library of Congress




From vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM  Wed Aug 11 00:31:56 1999
From: vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM (Vishal Agarwal)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 99 17:31:56 -0700
Subject: Veda of war
Message-ID: <161227051487.23782.8307836564559706635.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Another work of Dhanurveda commonly available is the 'Nitiprakasika' of
Maharshi Vaisampayana/Charaka. An english translation of this was published
by Gustav Oppert

Vishal


----Original Message Follows----
From: Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV>
Subject: Veda of war
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:22:22 -0400

The Library of Congress has the following versions of the Dhanurveda:

ITEMS 1-3 OF 4                 SET 4: BRIEF DISPLAY
FILE: LOC3
                                 (DESCENDING ORDER)


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From jaybee at TM.NET.MY  Tue Aug 10 12:28:42 1999
From: jaybee at TM.NET.MY (jaybee)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 99 19:28:42 +0700
Subject: The veda of war
In-Reply-To: <37AFFE91.9CCD96EF@djk.se>
Message-ID: <161227051480.23782.17894719981712552561.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

At 11:27 AM 8/10/99 +0100, you wrote:
>I heard from a ISKCON member that there is a veda dealing with matters of
>war. It was called something like daur veda. Where can I locate more info
>regarding this?
>
>David
>

        Dear Sir,

                The Danur Veda is one of the four upavedas.
                "War in Ancient India" by V.R.Ramachandra Dikshitar,
        published by Motilal Benarsidass-1944.
                It covers the subject along with much more later
        information.

        Regards

        Jayabarathi

====================================================================





From Palaniappa at AOL.COM  Wed Aug 11 06:27:30 1999
From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 99 02:27:30 -0400
Subject: cAkrika
Message-ID: <161227051489.23782.1240593204145070507.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

For the word , cAkrika, Monier Williams gives "bard" as one of the meanings.
(He cites Wilson for this.) I would appreciate if someone can give any actual
examples of its occurrence in that meaning in Sanskrit texts? Thanks in
advance.

Regards
S. Palaniappan




From jds10 at CAM.AC.UK  Wed Aug 11 08:58:24 1999
From: jds10 at CAM.AC.UK (John Smith)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 99 09:58:24 +0100
Subject: cAkrika
In-Reply-To: <145f993c.24e271d2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <161227051493.23782.856608896363036251.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote:

> Dear Indologists,
>
> For the word , cAkrika, Monier Williams gives "bard" as one of the
> meanings. (He cites Wilson for this.) I would appreciate if someone
> can give any actual examples of its occurrence in that meaning in
> Sanskrit texts? Thanks in advance.

Note that MW himself, under the closely related sense "proclaimer", cites
Yajn. [yAjJ] 1.165, Hariv. 9047. The word occurs once in the MBh at
12.69.49a, bhikSukAMz cAkrikAMz caiva kSIbonmattAn kuzIlavAn. This is a
list of people who should be removed from a city that comes under military
threat, since they will otherwise cause harm (doSAya syur hi te 'nyathA):
beggars, cAkrikas, eunuchs, lunatics and kuzIlavas. The pairing of
cAkrikas with kuzIlavas perhaps suggests that some sense such as "bard" is
intended, and it would make some sense to banish street performers at a
time of crisis. (However, Nilakantha glosses cAkrikAn as zAkaTikAn,
"carters", and kuzIlavAn as phAlalekhAn kInAzAn "hoe-wielding cultivators"
-- perhaps not his most convincing interpretation.)

Your word does not occur in the Ramayana.

John Smith

--
Dr J. D. Smith                *  jds10 at cam.ac.uk
Faculty of Oriental Studies   *  Tel. 01223 335140 (Switchboard 01223 335106)
Sidgwick Avenue               *  Fax  01223 335110
Cambridge CB3 9DA             *  http://bombay.oriental.cam.ac.uk/index.html




From smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM  Wed Aug 11 20:36:53 1999
From: smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM (Swaminathan Madhuresan)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 99 13:36:53 -0700
Subject: M. Andronov's book
Message-ID: <161227051504.23782.4826025338909861117.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

About 2 years ago, I heard from Indologist friends
that M. Andronov's book on Comparative Dravidian Grammar
updating Caldwell's work will be published in Germany.

Has that book been out? Thanks.

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From sohum at MS.UKY.EDU  Wed Aug 11 17:56:28 1999
From: sohum at MS.UKY.EDU (Avinash Sathaye)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 99 13:56:28 -0400
Subject: Pythagorean theorem in India
Message-ID: <161227051499.23782.3320291202763384854.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Toke Lindegaard Knudsen wrote:

> On 17 Jun 99, at 16:32, Shrinivas Tilak wrote:
>
> Dear Dr. Tilak,
>
> >     While going through my notes this afternoon I found a clipping of a
> > report that appeared in The Tribune (Ambala) of June 26, 1993. Professors
> > Sema'an-I-Salem and Alok Kumar of California State University, Long Beach,
> > according to this report, have translated a text called Kitab Tabaqut
> > al-Umam (Book of Categories of Nations) written by Sa'id-al-Andalusi in
> > 1068.
> >     Among eight contributions to science made by ancient Indian scholars,
> > the book mentions that one Bhadrabahu solved in Kalpasutra, in 290 BCE,
> > "the so-called Pythagorean theorem."
> >     The title of the translation is "Science in Medieval World."
>
> I realize that I am responding to a rather old posting.  Anyway, I got
> the above-mentioned book on the library.  There seems to be no
> mention of the Pythagorean theorem nor mention of any
> "Bhadrabahu."  In fact, in the introduction the translators state that
> Sa'id al-Andalusi "is able to cite the name of only one Indian
> scholar, 'Kanka al-Hindi.'"  This Kanka al-Hindi does not appear to
> have any relation with Kalpasutras or the Pythagorean theorem.
> Do you still have a copy of that clipping?  If Arabian scholars really
> made comments about the theorems discovery in India I would be
> very interested to learn more.
>

In his book "Mathematics in ancient India (Chaukhamba O.R.S. 16)" Dr. A.K. Bag
mentions Bhadrabahu to be one of the  Jains  "who quoted mathematical formulas
in connection with their doctrines, but were not Mathematicians
themselves"(p.8). Dr. Bag's book, of course, discusses various conjectures and
facts about the origin of the Pythagorian Theorem in great detail. He supports
the view that it was indeed fairly understood as a theorem - rather than an
experimental fact, in the Baudhayana shulba suktas and gives evidence based on
other geometric constructions from the suktas which show an understanding of the
theorem.
--
|Avinash Sathaye Phone:(606)277-0130(Home), (606)257-8832(Office) |
Web page: www.ms.uky.edu/~sohum




From gabriele.zeller at UB.UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE  Wed Aug 11 13:59:21 1999
From: gabriele.zeller at UB.UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE (Gabriele Zeller)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 99 14:59:21 +0100
Subject: Address of Prof Bodewitz
Message-ID: <161227051495.23782.616760682771588514.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hello again,

as I do not know, whether my yesterday's mail reached the list,
here it is again: Does anybody know how and where I can contact Prof.
Hendrik Bodewitz? I have an urgent question to ask him on behalf of
an Indian friend.

Please answer to my personal email-address:

gabriele.zeller at ub.uni-tuebingen.de

Thanks a lot,
Gabriele
----------------------------------------------------------
Dr Gabriele Zeller
Universit?tsbibliothek T?bingen
Wilhelmstr. 32
72016 T?bingen
Tel:+49-7071-2974030
Fax:+49-7071-293123

http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/ub
----------------------------------------------------------




From tlk at MATH.KU.DK  Wed Aug 11 16:43:38 1999
From: tlk at MATH.KU.DK (Toke Lindegaard Knudsen)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 99 18:43:38 +0200
Subject: Pythagorean theorem in India
In-Reply-To: <19990617233243.64931.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051497.23782.3171920830202568463.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On 17 Jun 99, at 16:32, Shrinivas Tilak wrote:

Dear Dr. Tilak,

>     While going through my notes this afternoon I found a clipping of a
> report that appeared in The Tribune (Ambala) of June 26, 1993. Professors
> Sema'an-I-Salem and Alok Kumar of California State University, Long Beach,
> according to this report, have translated a text called Kitab Tabaqut
> al-Umam (Book of Categories of Nations) written by Sa'id-al-Andalusi in
> 1068.
>     Among eight contributions to science made by ancient Indian scholars,
> the book mentions that one Bhadrabahu solved in Kalpasutra, in 290 BCE,
> "the so-called Pythagorean theorem."
>     The title of the translation is "Science in Medieval World."

I realize that I am responding to a rather old posting.  Anyway, I got
the above-mentioned book on the library.  There seems to be no
mention of the Pythagorean theorem nor mention of any
"Bhadrabahu."  In fact, in the introduction the translators state that
Sa'id al-Andalusi "is able to cite the name of only one Indian
scholar, 'Kanka al-Hindi.'"  This Kanka al-Hindi does not appear to
have any relation with Kalpasutras or the Pythagorean theorem.
Do you still have a copy of that clipping?  If Arabian scholars really
made comments about the theorems discovery in India I would be
very interested to learn more.

I hope this meets you well.

Sincerely,
Toke Lindegaard Knudsen




From cssetzer at MUM.EDU  Thu Aug 12 02:34:17 1999
From: cssetzer at MUM.EDU (Claude Setzer)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 99 21:34:17 -0500
Subject: bRhadAranyaka
Message-ID: <161227051507.23782.4144310424110660627.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Harry,

Please see updated file format information in attached file.

Thanks
Claude
----- Original Message -----
From: Harry Falk <falk at ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE>
To: <INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 1999 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: bRhadAranyaka


> Dear Claude Setzer,
> I would like to order the full set of your texts including
> Caraka. Am I right in calculating the sum to 110 $?
> Please send the CD with bill addressed to
>
> Institut fuer Indische Philologie und Kunstgeschichte
> Koenigin-Luise-Str. 34a
> D-14195 Berlin
> Germany
> (my name should not occur in the bill header)
> Thanks,
> Harry Falk
>
>
> Claude Setzer schrieb:
> >
> > Dear David,
> >
> > I have the following available on CD, both in Devanagari and in 8-bit
> > Transliteration. The license fee is $100 for single user including some
very
> > nice true type fonts. If you get a more extensive set of fonts you also
get
> > first 80 chapters of Caraka both for total of $5 extra. There is $5
charge
> > for shipping and handling. These were all typed in independently of
other
> > texts you may have seen on the web. They are directly as printed, with
no
> > "editing."
> >
> > sincerely,
> >
> > Claude Setzer  cssetzer at mum.edu
> >
> > (About 28MB total when in Microsoft Word format)
> > Rig Veda  (1.54 MB)
> > Yajur Veda Mantra SaMhitaa  (0.0945MB)
> > Ashtangha Hridayama  (0.942MB)
> > Bhava Prakasha  (1.39MB)
> > Galita Prakasha  (0.161MB)
> > Darshanas: (combined size = 0.523 MB including references)
> >      (These are not complete at this point, and not available in all
fonts.)
> > Nyaya  (0.089MB)
> >       Vaisheshika (0.097MB)
> >       Sankhya  (0.064MB)
> >       Yoga   (0.015MB)
> >       Karma Mimansa   (0.223MB)
> >       Vedanta (.035MB)
> > Madhava Nidanam  (0.191KB)
> > Ramayana     (5.367MB)
> > Mahabharata  (8.856MB)
> > Narada Purana  (2.03MB)
> > Padma Purana  (5.25MB)
> > Sharngdhara Samhita  (0.447MB)
> > Sushruta Samhita (0.986MB) [small section at the end is missing]
> > Upanishads:  (0.3MB)
> > Isavasyopanishat
> > Kenopanishat
> > Kathopanishat
> > Prashnopanishat
> > Mundakopanishat
> > Mandukyopanishat
> > Taittiriyopanishat
> > Aitareyopanishat (Ityaitareyopanishat)
> > Chandogyopanishat (Chandoyopanishat)
> > Brihadaranyakopanishat
> > Shvetashvataropanishat
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: David Scarbrough <scarbro at CROSSLINK.NET>
> > To: <INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
> > Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 3:57 AM
> > Subject: bRhadAranyaka
> >
> > > Has anyone come across the bRhadAranyaka upanishhat in electronic form
> > > for doing a word search?
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > > David.
> > >
>


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/attachments/19990811/e4d78f67/attachment.html>

From tlk at MATH.KU.DK  Wed Aug 11 20:03:57 1999
From: tlk at MATH.KU.DK (Toke Lindegaard Knudsen)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 99 22:03:57 +0200
Subject: Pythagorean theorem in India
In-Reply-To: <37B1B94C.4363294E@ms.uky.edu>
Message-ID: <161227051502.23782.1319958686212280898.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On 11 Aug 99, at 13:56, Avinash Sathaye wrote:

> In his book "Mathematics in ancient India (Chaukhamba O.R.S. 16)" Dr. A.K.
> Bag mentions Bhadrabahu to be one of the  Jains  "who quoted mathematical
> formulas in connection with their doctrines, but were not Mathematicians
> themselves"(p.8). Dr. Bag's book, of course, discusses various conjectures
> and facts about the origin of the Pythagorian Theorem in great detail. He
> supports the view that it was indeed fairly understood as a theorem -
> rather than an experimental fact, in the Baudhayana shulba suktas and
> gives evidence based on other geometric constructions from the suktas
> which show an understanding of the theorem. -- |Avinash Sathaye
> Phone:(606)277-0130(Home), (606)257-8832(Office) | Web page:
> www.ms.uky.edu/~sohum

It sounds interesting, thank you for the information.  Could you
kindly give me the full details of Dr. Bag's book.  For example I am
not sure what "O.R.S." abbreviates.

Thank you very much.

Sincerely,
Toke Lindegaard Knudsen




From sbaldwin at EXECPC.COM  Thu Aug 12 03:30:51 1999
From: sbaldwin at EXECPC.COM (Shauna Singh Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 99 22:30:51 -0500
Subject: Seed of an Idea
Message-ID: <161227051509.23782.14895574747135940946.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Listserv Members:
Indian heirloom seeds and remedies are being patented by US
multinationals for their exclusive exploitation. e.g. Basmati rice.

A group of concerned NRIs is interested in combatting the granting of
these patents by providing a public web-based database accessible by
patent offices around the world, a database that will prove that old
Indian remedies/seeds/plants are public knowledge/domain and hence not
patentable in themselves (though the processes related to their use may
be).

We are looking for historical documents/books that can be referenced by
index or in full on a website, to assist us in proving the origin and
antiquity of Indian remedies and seeds.

If you have bibliographies you can send us, we would be most grateful.
Your comments or suggestions on this idea are also welcome. Please
respond to sbaldwin at execpc.com
Many thanks for your attention.
Shauna Baldwin


Shauna Singh Baldwin
What the Body Remembers (Doubleday USA, Sept 99)
English Lessons and Other Stories (Goose Lane, Canada 1996)
A Foreign Visitor's Survival Guide to America (John Muir Publications
USA, 1992)




From sohum at MS.UKY.EDU  Thu Aug 12 13:28:35 1999
From: sohum at MS.UKY.EDU (Avinash Sathaye)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 99 09:28:35 -0400
Subject: Dr. Bag's book and Pythagorean theorem in India
Message-ID: <161227051511.23782.14970817378668064212.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The details of  Dr. Bag's book are:
Mathematics in Ancient and Medieval India
Dr. A. K. Bag
Chaukhamba Oriental Research Studies No. 16
Chaukhamba Orientalia Varanasi/Delhi
First edition 1979

I would also recommend another classic (if you can get hold of it)
History of Hindu Mathematics parts I,II (Motilal Banarsidas 1935, 38)
Reprinted by Asia Publishing House Bombay (Sorry, no further details. I only
have a copy of the original).

Toke Lindegaard Knudsen wrote:

> On 11 Aug 99, at 13:56, Avinash Sathaye wrote:
>
> > In his book "Mathematics in ancient India (Chaukhamba O.R.S. 16)" Dr. A.K.
> > Bag mentions ...
>
> It sounds interesting, thank you for the information.  Could you
> kindly give me the full details of Dr. Bag's book.  For example I am
> not sure what "O.R.S." abbreviates.
> ...

--
|Avinash Sathaye Phone:(606)277-0130(Home), (606)257-8832(Office) |
Web page: www.ms.uky.edu/~sohum




From shrinivast at HOTMAIL.COM  Thu Aug 12 23:30:47 1999
From: shrinivast at HOTMAIL.COM (Shrinivas Tilak)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 99 16:30:47 -0700
Subject: Pythagorean theorem in India
Message-ID: <161227051516.23782.4307420829464526726.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Yes, I still have the original clipping with me and I could send you a copy
after I receive your mailing address. Incidently, Prof Alok Kumar, one of
the authors, contacted me privately concerning the newspaper report and
corrected it. I understand from him that he intends to send a more detailed
response to the subject matter of the clipping at a later date,
ST


>From: "Toke Lindegaard Knudsen" <tlk at math.ku.dk>
>To: Shrinivas Tilak <shrinivast at HOTMAIL.COM>,        Indology
><INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
>Subject: Pythagorean theorem in India
>Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:43:38 +0200
>
>On 17 Jun 99, at 16:32, Shrinivas Tilak wrote:
>
>Dear Dr. Tilak,
>
> >     While going through my notes this afternoon I found a clipping of a
> > report that appeared in The Tribune (Ambala) of June 26, 1993.
>Professors
> > Sema'an-I-Salem and Alok Kumar of California State University, Long
>Beach,
> > according to this report, have translated a text called Kitab Tabaqut
> > al-Umam (Book of Categories of Nations) written by Sa'id-al-Andalusi in
> > 1068.
> >     Among eight contributions to science made by ancient Indian
>scholars,
> > the book mentions that one Bhadrabahu solved in Kalpasutra, in 290 BCE,
> > "the so-called Pythagorean theorem."
> >     The title of the translation is "Science in Medieval World."
>
>I realize that I am responding to a rather old posting.  Anyway, I got
>the above-mentioned book on the library.  There seems to be no
>mention of the Pythagorean theorem nor mention of any
>"Bhadrabahu."  In fact, in the introduction the translators state that
>Sa'id al-Andalusi "is able to cite the name of only one Indian
>scholar, 'Kanka al-Hindi.'"  This Kanka al-Hindi does not appear to
>have any relation with Kalpasutras or the Pythagorean theorem.
>Do you still have a copy of that clipping?  If Arabian scholars really
>made comments about the theorems discovery in India I would be
>very interested to learn more.
>
>I hope this meets you well.
>
>Sincerely,
>Toke Lindegaard Knudsen
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From arjunwadkar at MCMAIL.COM  Thu Aug 12 17:22:40 1999
From: arjunwadkar at MCMAIL.COM (K S Arjunwadkar)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 99 18:22:40 +0100
Subject: Pythagorean theorem in India
In-Reply-To: <199908112013.WAA96846@runningman.mobilixnet.dk>
Message-ID: <161227051513.23782.13509922357303974171.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Priority:               normal
Date sent:              Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:03:57 +0200
Send reply to:          Indology <INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
From:                   Toke Lindegaard Knudsen <tlk at MATH.KU.DK>
Subject:                Re: Pythagorean theorem in India
To:                     INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK

> On 11 Aug 99, at 13:56, Avinash Sathaye wrote:
>
> > In his book "Mathematics in ancient India (Chaukhamba O.R.S. 16)" Dr. A.K.
> > Bag mentions Bhadrabahu to be one of the  Jains  "who quoted mathematical
> > formulas in connection with their doctrines, but were not Mathematicians
> > themselves"(p.8). Dr. Bag's book, of course, discusses various conjectures
> > and facts about the origin of the Pythagorian Theorem in great detail. He
> > supports the view that it was indeed fairly understood as a theorem -
> > rather than an experimental fact, in the Baudhayana shulba suktas and
> > gives evidence based on other geometric constructions from the suktas
> > which show an understanding of the theorem. -- |Avinash Sathaye
> > Phone:(606)277-0130(Home), (606)257-8832(Office) | Web page:
> > www.ms.uky.edu/~sohum
>
> It sounds interesting, thank you for the information.  Could you
> kindly give me the full details of Dr. Bag's book.  For example I am
> not sure what "O.R.S." abbreviates.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Sincerely,
> Toke Lindegaard Knudsen

Observation and explanation

shulba suktas
Should be shulba sutras
ORS=Oriental Research Series

KSA <arjunwadkar at mcmail.com>




From fo8z003 at PUBLIC.UNI-HAMBURG.DE  Fri Aug 13 05:56:19 1999
From: fo8z003 at PUBLIC.UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 99 06:56:19 +0100
Subject: Transmitting files with diacritics
In-Reply-To: <37B23FEB.B00E9F23@execpc.com>
Message-ID: <161227051518.23782.7314370523275286043.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In an attachment to a recent message to Indology, the following helpful
statement was made: >The only font characters that can be relied upon to
always display correctly are the 62 simple Roman characters and the 10
digits. In spite of all the magnificent electronic technology available and
all the work done by international standards groups, the other characters,
especially the upper 128 are subject to a wide range of "interpretation" by
virtually all available software. The font as it appears on your screen
will be influenced by the version of your word processor, the version and
type of operating system, the country code pages in use, and various other
factors.<

Being loath to correcting someone's retyping of my computer-printed
(usually complex) research articles, I have been using the system given
below for the last few months to send my articles for publication. It does
not solve every problem, but it does reduce the work on the clerical side
of publication considerably and, when I get the proofs of my piece as a
hard copy, I have to do very little correcting, if any, unless my original
contained mistakes.

Sequence:
(1) You type your journal contribution in your own font with all the
diacritics using the keyboard layout you are used to.
(2) After your text has reached the final form you change the characters
with diacritical marks globally and matching the case (upper case, lower
case etc.) to 'letter + number' pairs according to the scheme given below.
(3) The file is sent in this changed form either on a disk or as an e-mail
attachment. If the person doing the reconversion on the other side is
unfamiliar with the language, a copy of your printout is also sent to guide
him or her.
(4) The other side replaces the 'letter plus number' pairs according to its
keyboard layout for characters with diacritical marks, globally and
matching the upper and lower cases.
(5) It does whatever minor reformatting, checking or editing that may be
necessary and sends you a printout as proofs.

I know nothing about computer programming. I developed the scheme simply as
a practical solution that could be used until a universally accepted ideal
solution is developed. (If you believe that an ideal universal solution
will be developed soon, you will also believe that all car manufacturers
will soon standardize car sizes and sizes of all spare parts in the
interest of eliminating polution that is caused models and spare parts
discarded because of minor differences in sizes.) It is not terribly
inadequate and saves much work as far as indological writing with
diacritical marks is concerned, although for special purposes (e.g. texts
with accents or files that contain profuse use of letters followed by
numbers) a few 'buffers' may have to be introduced to block global changes
from producing unwanted results. One can easily do that by inserting
periods, commas etc. between a letter and a number following it. However,
even without such devices the present scheme saves much work for the
publisher and the author.

-- ashok aklujkar


Ashok Aklujkar's system for indicating diacritics through the use of numbers.

The same principles apply to noncapital (or small) letters and the capital
letters.

Replace globally as far as possible.

While replacing, remember to tick "match case" in the "Change" dialogue box
(your computer may have different wordings for these.)

a1      =  long a; similarly for "i1", "u1," etc. Thus, number 1  stands
for the macron or bar on top of a vowel and indicates greater length.

r2      = vowel r (usually pronounced as ri or ru). Thus, 2 indicates that
a dot should appear below the preceding letter . Similarly, "l2",
"h2(visarga)", "t2" ,  "d2," "n2,"  "s2" (retroflex sounds).
For the aspirate retroflexes this will not pose a problem, since "t", "d"
etc. will be changed first.

Note that the long vowel/vocalic r will look "r21". Therefore, its
conversion to r carrying a diacritical mark should be carried out first by
using "21". Since its occurrence is very rare, this may be done
non-globally.

m3      = anusvara
n3      = nasal consonant at the end of the ka-class/series
s3      = palatal s, the one which is usually indicated by an acute accent
on top of s.
Thus, 3 indicates most top marks such as dot and acute accent used to
indicate nasal off-glide, nasality and palatal nature.

n4      = nasal consonant at the end of the ca-class/series, tilde

Q5      = single quotation mark that appears on the right of the quoted
part. And APOSTROPHE (the latter used for avagraha). The latter situation
will not be common. So, change it first non-globally, if necessary.
Q6      = double quotation mark that appears on the right of the quoted part.




From pmg6s at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU  Fri Aug 13 19:45:09 1999
From: pmg6s at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU (Patricia Meredith Greer)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 99 15:45:09 -0400
Subject: Minkowski article
Message-ID: <161227051522.23782.6053090815129478077.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

In a 1989 JAOS article, C.Z. Minkowski
cites the following as a forthcoming article by himself and
I. Weeks: "The Frame Story and Ancient Indian Epic: P. A.
Grintser's Drevneindijskaya Proza."  I can't find it
anywhere.  Does anyone know if this has been published --
or anything else not in Russian about Grintser's work on
the MBh?  Thanks!

Patricia Greer

________________________________
Patricia M. Greer
Department of Religious Studies
University of Virginia




From yanom at KSUVX0.KYOTO-SU.AC.JP  Fri Aug 13 07:38:36 1999
From: yanom at KSUVX0.KYOTO-SU.AC.JP (Michio Yano)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 99 16:38:36 +0900
Subject: Pythagorean theorem in India
Message-ID: <161227051520.23782.11344791566540133985.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have been working on an Arabic manuscript of Kanaka's
book on astrology.  He says nothing about India.

Michio Yano
Kyoto Snagyo University




From tlk at MATH.KU.DK  Fri Aug 13 19:03:56 1999
From: tlk at MATH.KU.DK (Toke Lindegaard Knudsen)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 99 21:03:56 +0200
Subject: Pythagorean theorem in India
In-Reply-To: <19990812233048.16579.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051524.23782.6206152588028972612.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On 12 Aug 99, at 16:30, Shrinivas Tilak wrote:

> Yes, I still have the original clipping with me and I could send you a
> copy after I receive your mailing address. Incidently, Prof Alok Kumar,
> one of the authors, contacted me privately concerning the newspaper report
> and corrected it. I understand from him that he intends to send a more
> detailed response to the subject matter of the clipping at a later date,

Thank you very much.  My mailing address is:

 Toke Lindegaard Knudsen
 Sdr. Fasanvej 51, 3.th.
 DK-2000 Frederiksberg
 DENMARK

I would also like to hear more if Professor Asok Kumar do send out
a response.

Thank you very much for your kind help.

Sincerely,
Toke Lindegaard Knudsen




From Palaniappa at AOL.COM  Sat Aug 14 05:55:47 1999
From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 99 01:55:47 -0400
Subject: inscriptions, pAlAciriyar and parAzara/zrI
Message-ID: <161227051526.23782.8230851185531205332.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

There are three Classical Tamil poets from Madurai with the following names:
pAlAciriyar nappAlan2Ar
pAlAciriyar naRRAman2Ar
pAlAciriyan2 cEntan2 koRRan2Ar

Regarding each of these U. V. Saminataiyar  suggests they were probably
teachers of children, based on Ta. pAla < Skt. bAla (cagkakAlap pulavarkaL,
p.342-3). The Tamil Lexicon also interprets it in the same manner.

However, a study of Tamil inscriptions reveals that pAlAciriyan2 is a variant
of Tamilized pArAzarya, ie., one who belonged to the lineage of parAzara/zrI.

An inscription, SII vol. 17, no. 598, of the period of Kulottunga Chola II
(12 th century) gives three variants of the same name as:
pArAcirian2
pArAzrIan2
pAlAzrIan2

When considered along with other names in the inscription, it is obvious that
it is a gotra name. There are other inscriptions which give the variant
pAlAcirian2. Another inscription gives the variant pArAcarian.

This will help us correctly interpret the name of another CT poet maturai
iLampAlAciriyanr cEntan2 kUttan2Ar. UVS intreprets the name as teacher
cEntan2 kUttan2 who was originally from the place called iLampAl and later
settled in Madurai. The correct interpretation should be, "cEntan2 kUttan2,
the young  one of the lineage of parAzara/zrI".

We have other poets with part of the names derived from gotra names such as
maturai iLagkoucikan2Ar (kouzika) , ko/OTimagkalam vAtuLi naRcEntan2Ar
(vAdhUla) , kAcipan2 kIran2Ar (kAzyapa) , kaTampan2UrccANTiliyan2Ar
(zANDilya), tagkAl AttirEyan2 cegkaNNan2Ar (Atreya)

Similarly, CT poet kOn2ATTu eRiccilUr mATalan2 maturaikkkumaran2Ar and mATala
maRaiyOn2 of cilappatikAram were brahmins of the mADala gotra which is one of
the gotras listed by Chitralekha Gupta in "The Brahmanas of India., 1983,
p.117. Similarly, tolkAppiyan2 probably belonged to kApi/kApya gotra. Both
mATalan2 and kAppiyan2 occur in inscriptions.

Regards
S. Palaniappan




From Toru.Tomabechi at ORIENT.UNIL.CH  Sat Aug 14 11:57:19 1999
From: Toru.Tomabechi at ORIENT.UNIL.CH (Toru Tomabechi)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 99 13:57:19 +0200
Subject: IABS Conference/Programme available
Message-ID: <161227051528.23782.16298079630210464306.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear list members,

The programme of the XIIth IABS Conference is now available for
download at http://www-orient.unil.ch/

(Please don't ask me a question of `What's-this-PDF-thing?' type. I'm
not something like "For-Dummies" book :-) )

Best wishes,

Toru Tomabechi
University of Lausanne




From Palaniappa at AOL.COM  Sat Aug 14 20:31:06 1999
From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 99 16:31:06 -0400
Subject: PataJjali a form of ZeSa
Message-ID: <161227051532.23782.13082632083861153311.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

N. Ganesan wrote on  Fri, 6 Aug 1999 15:43:34 PDT:

<<Even though Saivism succeeded in appropriating the four rishis and
patanjali as disciples of Dakshinamurti or Nataraja, Namakkal caves show the
vaishnavaite attempt.>>

The earliest attested attempt by vaishnavites to appropriate dakSiNAmUrti is
found in the following lines from paripATal, a late CT text.

azal purai kuzai kozu nizal tarum pala cin2ai
Alam um kaTampu um nal yARRu naTu um
kAl vazakku aRu nilai kun2Ram um piRa um
a avai mEviya vERu vERu peyarOy
e vayin2Oy um nI E ...                                            (pari.
4.66-70)

A trough translation is:
"O, tirumAl!, you are the one who resides (1) under the banyan tree with many
branches and flame-like flourishing young leaves, (2) under the kaTampu tree,
(3)on the island in the middle of the river and (4) on hills where the flow
of winds is stopped. Although you reside in these places under different
names, you are the one in all places."

Here (1) refers to dakSiNAmUrti (2) refers to murukan2 and (3) to tirumAl as
the popularly known raGganAtha.

One has to see the vaishnavite attempt to subsume murukan2 as an aspect of
tirumAl relative to the zaivites' successful attempt at Madurai which has
been also known as kaTampavan2am. If there was ever a cultic presence of
murukan2 in Madurai's kaTampavan2am, it must have disappeared with the rise
of zaivite AlavAy.

Regards
S. Palaniappan




From vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM  Sun Aug 15 00:23:18 1999
From: vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM (Vishal Agarwal)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 99 17:23:18 -0700
Subject: Visistadvaita Homepage URL
Message-ID: <161227051536.23782.12503200591957634475.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The homepage has been moved to its permanent URL

http://hinduweb.org/home/dharma_and_philosophy/vvh/

We have added new sections on Sri Sudarsana Bhatta and Sri Rangaramanuja.
The section on Sri Parasara has been expanded thoroughly. Several
corrections have been made (and more will be in future).

Corrections, suggestions, comments are welcome

Vishal


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From HubeyH at MAIL.MONTCLAIR.EDU  Sat Aug 14 21:50:54 1999
From: HubeyH at MAIL.MONTCLAIR.EDU (H. Mark Hubey)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 99 17:50:54 -0400
Subject: leopard
Message-ID: <161227051534.23782.4230074787767722061.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I read that the leopard is native to Africa and South Asia. The word is
from
Greek leo + pard. I wonder if 'pard' is related to Parth/Parthia,
Pers/Persia,
etc. The word for leopard in Turkic is pars. What is it in Indic, Hindi,
Iranian etc? If Indic-Iranian is an intrusion to this area then the word
must have existed in the previous inhabitants' language. Is the word
also
in Dravidian?

--
Sincerely,
M. Hubey
hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu
http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey




From David.Jonsson at DJK.SE  Sat Aug 14 17:02:37 1999
From: David.Jonsson at DJK.SE (David Jonsson)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 99 19:02:37 +0200
Subject: The veda of war
Message-ID: <161227051530.23782.767559199019245522.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thankyou. This book has been reprinted and is available on the common
webshops. Cheapest at www.books.com $25.80

David

----- Original Message -----
From: jaybee <jaybee at TM.NET.MY>
To: <INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: The veda of war


> At 11:27 AM 8/10/99 +0100, you wrote:
> >I heard from a ISKCON member that there is a veda dealing with matters of
> >war. It was called something like daur veda. Where can I locate more info
> >regarding this?
> >
> >David
> >
>         Dear Sir,
>
>                 The Danur Veda is one of the four upavedas.
>                 "War in Ancient India" by V.R.Ramachandra Dikshitar,
>         published by Motilal Benarsidass-1944.
>                 It covers the subject along with much more later
>         information.
>
>         Regards
>
>         Jayabarathi




From vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM  Mon Aug 16 03:15:32 1999
From: vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM (Vishal Agarwal)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 99 20:15:32 -0700
Subject: Looking for a book
Message-ID: <161227051538.23782.4984198055422135581.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Vaisesika darsanam by Gangadhara Raya; 1870 (Published from either Serampore
or Calcutta)


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From jds10 at CAM.AC.UK  Mon Aug 16 08:36:17 1999
From: jds10 at CAM.AC.UK (John Smith)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 99 09:36:17 +0100
Subject: Minkowski article
In-Reply-To: <SIMEON.9908131509.B@bootp-197-6.bootp.Virginia.EDU>
Message-ID: <161227051539.23782.15531383136137689841.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Patricia Meredith Greer wrote:

> Dear Indologists,
>
> In a 1989 JAOS article, C.Z. Minkowski
> cites the following as a forthcoming article by himself and
> I. Weeks: "The Frame Story and Ancient Indian Epic: P. A.
> Grintser's Drevneindijskaya Proza."  I can't find it
> anywhere.  Does anyone know if this has been published --
> or anything else not in Russian about Grintser's work on
> the MBh?  Thanks!

Can't help with your q. 1. On your q. 2, you might want to look at J. W.
de Jong's article in Adyar Library Bulletin 39: 1-42 (1975): "Recent
Russian publications on the Indian epic".

John Smith

--
Dr J. D. Smith                *  jds10 at cam.ac.uk
Faculty of Oriental Studies   *  Tel. 01223 335140 (Switchboard 01223 335106)
Sidgwick Avenue               *  Fax  01223 335110
Cambridge CB3 9DA             *  http://bombay.oriental.cam.ac.uk/index.html




From venkatraman_iyer at HOTMAIL.COM  Mon Aug 16 18:22:57 1999
From: venkatraman_iyer at HOTMAIL.COM (Venkatraman Iyer)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 99 11:22:57 -0700
Subject: tohna river
Message-ID: <161227051542.23782.12380527772612010585.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does Ptolomey refer to Yamuna (modern Jumna) river
as something like tOhna? If so, what is the corresponding
name for tohna in Sanskrit material?

Sincerely,
V. Iyer


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From saraswatirao at HOTMAIL.COM  Tue Aug 17 12:55:32 1999
From: saraswatirao at HOTMAIL.COM (Saraswati Rao Kavaluri)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 99 05:55:32 -0700
Subject: None
Message-ID: <161227051544.23782.17063945167192178183.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

HI,

I AM DOING RESEARCH FOR A DOCUMENTARY FILM ON THE ARYAN INVASION THEORY,
COULD  HISTORIANS, INDOLOGISTS, ANTHROPOLOGISTS AND ARCHAEOLOGISTS WORKING
ON THIS SUBJECT PLEASE CONTACT ME ?



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From Palaniappa at AOL.COM  Tue Aug 17 16:17:46 1999
From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 99 12:17:46 -0400
Subject: Jean-Luc Chevillard's email
Message-ID: <161227051546.23782.5867384625944936812.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

I would appreciate if anybody could give the email address of Jean-Luc
Chevillard at the French Institute in Pondicherry. Thanks in advance.

Regards
S. Palaniappan




From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM  Tue Aug 17 21:13:39 1999
From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 99 14:13:39 -0700
Subject: Free Tamil email service
Message-ID: <161227051549.23782.6365316520161759089.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>?From 1996, a list exchanging information in Tamil language
is in operation (http://www.tamil.net) using Murasu anjal software.

Heard that a free email service in Tamil
using murasu anjal has been launched on 15 August 1999.
A user knowing Tamil alone can exchange email using this.
Something similar to Hotmail German and Japanese emails.

Has any Indologist tried the new facility at http://mail.ambalam.com?

Regards,
N. Ganesan




_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From Jon.Skarpeid at HINT.NO  Tue Aug 17 21:30:58 1999
From: Jon.Skarpeid at HINT.NO (Jon Skarpeid)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 99 23:30:58 +0200
Subject: ADDRESS OF PROF PRABAL SEN
Message-ID: <161227051551.23782.13041202907358241399.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


ADDoes anybody have the address of Prabal Sen, Prof at Calcutta University?
Jon.




From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Wed Aug 18 10:43:27 1999
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 99 06:43:27 -0400
Subject: Brahman origin myths
In-Reply-To: <AA3rbkt4T5@YV1041.spb.edu>
Message-ID: <161227051557.23782.10943691601539734690.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

        Currently I am looking into origin myths about different Brahman
communities.  There are the famous stories in works like the
Sahyaadrikha.n.da about the origins of the Chitpavan, Karhade, and
Sarasvata Brahmins of Maharashtra and Goa.  Are there any origin stories
about the Brahman communities in Tamilnad, Andhra and Karnataka?
        Best,
                                Madhav Deshpande




From jgardner at BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU  Wed Aug 18 14:07:00 1999
From: jgardner at BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU (JR Gardner)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 99 09:07:00 -0500
Subject: Tamas & dyaus?
In-Reply-To: <199908180504.KAA22463@mbg.vsnl.net.in>
Message-ID: <161227051562.23782.15550022524335013567.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Someone sent me a snippet on some rare astrological phenomenon involving
the planets, moon, and comets which is considered altogether rare occuring
today and y'day, supposedly (as these things often are) with potent
portents- here's a snip from their e-mail (note last 3-5 lines):

The likes of the configuration that will be occurring in August of 1999
has
not been seen in recent times. There was a weaker version of this
configuration on January 11, 1910. This was in cardinal signs and included
7
major planets and 1 of the asteroids. The Grand Cross is part of a
"crossing
over" to a new era or age. It is to be noted that the first air
transportation service, utilizing dirigibles in Germany, was established
on
this date. It is easy to see how the advances in technology transformed
the
world from a horse-and-buggy condition to the high-tech world we live in
now. The Grand Cross coming this next August is much more powerful and
features 9 major planets, the Moon's nodes, Chiron and 2 of the 4
asteroids
in fixed signs. It will take someone with more sophisticated computer
software than I have to research how long it has been since this
configuration was last seen. It will affect everyone and everything. The
Grand Cross can occur in any of 3 modes; cardinal, fixed or mutable. These
correspond to the 3 gunas of the Vedas or rajas, tamas or sattva. This one
is in the tamasic, or fixed signs. These are Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and
Aquarius. The fixed signs have long been recognized as crucial in the
experience of mankind. The Sphinx is a composite of the fixed cross. It
has
the head of a man (Aquarius), the front paws of a lion (Leo), the body and

___________________
John Robert Gardner
http://vedavid.org/diss/
________________________________________________________________________




From jgardner at BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU  Wed Aug 18 14:53:47 1999
From: jgardner at BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU (JR Gardner)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 99 09:53:47 -0500
Subject: Tamas & dyaus?
In-Reply-To: <37BB75C4.10268D8B@jps.net>
Message-ID: <161227051565.23782.13135181050676959615.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Wed, 18 Aug 1999, Paul Kekai Manansala wrote:

> The "Grand Cross" generally refers specifically to the solar
> eclipse of August 11.  During that event, you have a close opposition
> of Mars and Saturn occuring at nearly 90 degree angles to the
> eclipse.  Uranus is also in opposition to the Sun and Moon.

Yes, true-- Sorry, I should have clarified the specific phenomena.  The
11th is noted, but this is specific to the 17th-18th of August (elsewhere
in teh rather long posting I received it acknowledges the 11th as a first
step toward this more rare phenomenon.

So, stillinterested if anyone knows about that aspect of this alignment in
addition to the 11th Eclipse.

jr




From zydenbos at BIGFOOT.DE  Wed Aug 18 04:25:59 1999
From: zydenbos at BIGFOOT.DE (Robert Zydenbos)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 99 09:55:59 +0530
Subject: New issue of online journal on Kannada literature
Message-ID: <161227051553.23782.16289157667097149917.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Just a short reminder: the second online issue of Aniketana, the
English-language journal of the Karnataka Sahitya Academy, is
now available at http://www.aniket.com.


Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos
Mysore (India)
e-mail zydenbos at bigfoot.de




From yavass at YV1041.SPB.EDU  Wed Aug 18 07:14:11 1999
From: yavass at YV1041.SPB.EDU (Yaroslav V. Vassilkov)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 99 11:14:11 +0400
Subject: Minkowski article
Message-ID: <161227051555.23782.9757182608888929842.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Ms Greer,
        in addition to the review by J.W. de Jong, mentioned by J.Smith,
I would point also to another review of Grintser's book by the same author,
being a sequel to the first review:
        J.W.de Jong. The Study of the MahAbhArata. A Brief Survey (Part II).
- Hokke bunka kenkyu, No. 11, March 1984, pp. 11-19.
        Wendy Doniger (O'Flaherty) dealt briefly with Grintser's book on the
MahAbhArata in her review of van Buitenen's translation - Religious Studies
Review, vol. 4., No. 1, January 1978, pp.22, 25-26.
        Hope this may help.
        Best regards,
                        Yaroslav Vassilkov




From jgardner at BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU  Wed Aug 18 16:18:03 1999
From: jgardner at BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU (JR Gardner)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 99 11:18:03 -0500
Subject: Tamas & dyaus?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.3.95.990818095145.48650B-100000@green.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Message-ID: <161227051567.23782.13621095153774894774.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Okay, here's a URL--a bit on the cheesy side . .. .

http://www.angelfire.com/ny/earthspirit/GrandCross.html

http://www.newage.com.au/astrology/grandcross.html

___________________
John Robert Gardner
http://vedavid.org/diss/
________________________________________________________________________

On Wed, 18 Aug 1999, JR Gardner wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Aug 1999, Paul Kekai Manansala wrote:
>
> > The "Grand Cross" generally refers specifically to the solar
> > eclipse of August 11.  During that event, you have a close opposition
> > of Mars and Saturn occuring at nearly 90 degree angles to the
> > eclipse.  Uranus is also in opposition to the Sun and Moon.
>
> Yes, true-- Sorry, I should have clarified the specific phenomena.  The
> 11th is noted, but this is specific to the 17th-18th of August (elsewhere
> in teh rather long posting I received it acknowledges the 11th as a first
> step toward this more rare phenomenon.
>
> So, stillinterested if anyone knows about that aspect of this alignment in
> addition to the 11th Eclipse.
>
> jr
>




From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM  Wed Aug 18 18:39:03 1999
From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 99 11:39:03 -0700
Subject: Krishna's hallIsaka dance
Message-ID: <161227051570.23782.17845993475978446546.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

"hallIsaka" is a circular dance often mentioned as one of
Krishna's bAlacarita episodes. Let us look at a Sanskrit dictionary.
Monier-Williams (1899: 1293 b), for instance, records:

  halliiza m. 'one of the 18 uparuupakas or minor dramatic
  entertainments (described as a piece in one act, consisting chiefly
  of singing and dancing by one male and 7, 8 or 10 female performers;
  perhaps a kind of ballet)' (Saahitya-darpaNa); n. 'a circular dance
  (performed by women under the direction of a man)' (DaNDin's
  Kaavyaadarza)  halliizaka m. n. 'a kind of dance'
  (= preceding)(Kaavyaadarza)
  halliiSa, halliiSaka m.n. 'id. (= the same)' (lexicographers)
  halliisa m.n. 'id.' (Hemacandra)
  halliisaka m.n. 'id.' (PancadaNDachattra-prabandha);
  'a kind of musical instrument (v.l. jhalliiSaka)' (HarivaMza)
  Also, hallIsakam (Vaatsyaayana, Bhaasa, Abhinavagupta,
  VaagbhaTa, Bhoja).

How is the name of the dance, attested in several texts, coined?

Regards,
N. Ganesan




_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM  Wed Aug 18 20:19:09 1999
From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 99 13:19:09 -0700
Subject: Krishna's hallIsaka dance
Message-ID: <161227051572.23782.3365547833472849387.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sanskrit hallIza etc. could represent Proto-Dravidian *allica.

hal(l)-("move, shake") is, according to Turner (CDIAL 14001-14018),
a loanword from Dravidian. This hal(l)a- might be derived
from Tamil alaGku/alacu/alai(cu)  etc. meaning
'to wave, shake, move, roam, wander' etc.

Compare DEDR entry on Tamil alliyam 'Krishna's dance when he broke
the tusk of the elephant that was set upon him by Kamsa'. This
alliyam dance by Krishna to kill kuvalayapita elephant occurs in
CilappatikAram. Tamil alliyan_ 'stray elephant separated from the
fold' and Malayalam alliyan 'female elephant' (DEDR 258).
These words might also be derived from Tamil alanku/alacu/alai(cu)
etc. meaning 'to wave, shake, move, roam, wander' etc. (DEDR 240)
from which could come both 'stray (= roaming, wandering, vagabond)
elephant' and 'dance (with shaking, moving)'.

The last part of hallIza/hallISa/hallIsa has three different
kinds of sibilants (s,z,S) which certainly suggests a
non-Sanskritic origin. While it is difficult to explain through
Sanskrit etymology this later part, -isa in hallIza(ka),
a Dravidian origin for -iza / -iyam is most likely. It might be
DEDR no. 469 Tamil iyaGku etc. 'movement' (also iyal 'dance'),

  From the citations given in Monier-Williams, it is clear that
-ka- at the end of hallIsaka is the deminutive suffix so frequently
added to Sanskrit nouns at a later stage.

So, PDr. *allica as the source for hallIsaka, may have important
implications for the roots of Indian dance. Similarly, are "ranga"
(dance stage) and tamil 'arangu' (dance stage, small island between
rivers) related?

F.B.J. Kuiper, Varu.na and Viduu.saka,
On the origin of the Sanskrit Drama, Amsterdam, etc. 1979. Cf.,
e.g.:
-- p. 116: "An entirely different thesis has been defended by
Indu Shekar, who argued that the drama was a product of an
non-Aryan culture of India. The present study will show why I
think that the evidence available points to a different conclusion."
-- p. 116, n. 29: "It is true, influence of non-Aryan cultures has
too often been invoked, without the slightest proof , as a _deus
ex machina_ to explain difficult problems. If, however, there are
specific (mostly linguistic) indications pointing to that conclusion,
there is obviously no point in ignoring their existence, our task
then being to try to understand what the role of the influence can
have been in the whole context of Indian culture."

  "hallIsa" may well be one such linguistic indication.

Regards,
N. Ganesan


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From jds10 at CAM.AC.UK  Wed Aug 18 13:31:11 1999
From: jds10 at CAM.AC.UK (John Smith)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 99 14:31:11 +0100
Subject: ADDRESS OF PROF PRABAL SEN
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990817233058.007df490@pat.hint.no>
Message-ID: <161227051559.23782.7323567321389753087.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Tue, 17 Aug 1999, Jon Skarpeid wrote:

>
> ADDoes anybody have the address of Prabal Sen, Prof at Calcutta University?
> Jon.
>

I am told it is:

Prof. Prabal Kumar Sen,
Dept of Philosophy,
University of Calcutta,
Alipur Campus,
1 Reformatory Street,
Calcutta 700 027.

John Smith

--
Dr J. D. Smith                *  jds10 at cam.ac.uk
Faculty of Oriental Studies   *  Tel. 01223 335140 (Switchboard 01223 335106)
Sidgwick Avenue               *  Fax  01223 335110
Cambridge CB3 9DA             *  http://bombay.oriental.cam.ac.uk/index.html




From kekai at JPS.NET  Thu Aug 19 03:11:00 1999
From: kekai at JPS.NET (Paul Kekai Manansala)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 99 20:11:00 -0700
Subject: Tamas & dyaus?
Message-ID: <161227051563.23782.14759319684723844371.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The "Grand Cross" generally refers specifically to the solar
eclipse of August 11.  During that event, you have a close opposition
of Mars and Saturn occuring at nearly 90 degree angles to the
eclipse.  Uranus is also in opposition to the Sun and Moon.

Some connect the Grand Cross to Nostradamus' prediction concerning
the year 1999.  Strangely, even before Nostradamus, the Kalajnana,
written around 1000 years ago, predicted grand events for the same
year (Kali 5101).

The Kalajnana, written in Kannada and Telugu, predicts the arrival
of Kalki in the form of Sriveerabhoga Vasantaraya.

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala

JR Gardner wrote:
>
> Someone sent me a snippet on some rare astrological phenomenon involving
> the planets, moon, and comets which is considered altogether rare occuring
> today and y'day, supposedly (as these things often are) with potent
> portents- here's a snip from their e-mail (note last 3-5 lines):
>
> The likes of the configuration that will be occurring in August of 1999
> has
> not been seen in recent times. There was a weaker version of this
> configuration on January 11, 1910. This was in cardinal signs and included
> 7
> major planets and 1 of the asteroids. The Grand Cross is part of a
> "crossing
> over" to a new era or age. It is to be noted that the first air
> transportation service, utilizing dirigibles in Germany, was established
> on
> this date. It is easy to see how the advances in technology transformed
> the
> world from a horse-and-buggy condition to the high-tech world we live in
> now. The Grand Cross coming this next August is much more powerful and
> features 9 major planets, the Moon's nodes, Chiron and 2 of the 4
> asteroids
> in fixed signs. It will take someone with more sophisticated computer
> software than I have to research how long it has been since this
> configuration was last seen. It will affect everyone and everything. The
> Grand Cross can occur in any of 3 modes; cardinal, fixed or mutable. These
> correspond to the 3 gunas of the Vedas or rajas, tamas or sattva. This one
> is in the tamasic, or fixed signs. These are Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and
> Aquarius. The fixed signs have long been recognized as crucial in the
> experience of mankind. The Sphinx is a composite of the fixed cross. It
> has
> the head of a man (Aquarius), the front paws of a lion (Leo), the body and
>
> ___________________
> John Robert Gardner
> http://vedavid.org/diss/
> ________________________________________________________________________




From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM  Thu Aug 19 11:12:37 1999
From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 99 04:12:37 -0700
Subject: Krishna's hallIsaka dance
Message-ID: <161227051576.23782.9719752423471536855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>On the basis of one or two or even a few linguistic terms, it is not only
>unfair to  decide upon the origin of drama/natya but is a wrong
>methodology to explore the origins.

Thanks, Prof. Gupt. On the other hand, this is the first time
a secondary dance, hallIsaka, is derived from Dravidian.
I agree that few more important words have to be shown
that way.

Regards,
N. Ganesan



_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM  Thu Aug 19 14:51:04 1999
From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 99 07:51:04 -0700
Subject: Krishna's hallIsaka dance
Message-ID: <161227051580.23782.1721816483820061853.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 >In my book ``Untersuchungen zu Har.sadeva?s Naagaananda
 >und zum indischen Schauspiel"  [``Investigations into
 >Har.sadeva?s Naagaananda and Indian Drama"] (Swisttal-
 >Odendorf 1997, p. 114 f.) I have made another proposal,
 >connecting the word ra"nga with the root ra(~n)j meaning ``to be
 >delighted". I think, to put it briefly, that ra"nga originally means
 >``entertainment, delight" and ra"ngapii.tha (attested already in the
 >Naa.tya"saastra, where it is the technical term for ``stage")
 >accordingly means a ``platform for an entertaining performance,
 >stage"; thus puurvara"nga would literally mean:
 >``PREperformance, PREplay" (and not ``PREstage"). Then, with
 >time, the word ra"nga as an abbreviation for ra"ngapii.tha came
 >to mean ``stage".

   I do not know about ra(~n)j,  And how it gets transformed to
   "ranga". However in Tamil, araGku/araGkam always meant "stage,
   islet, etc.,". It is likely that this tamil arangam is the sanskrit
   "ranga". Given below are some sangam and post-sangam quotes.

Consider the sangam text, naRRiNai (poem 3) where the "araGku" stage
for playing vaTTu, a game by children
      "In2 paruntu uyavum vAn2 poru neTu cin2ai
      pori arai vEmpin2 puLLi nIzal
      kaTTaLai an2n2a iTTu *araGku* izaittu
      kallA ciRAar nelli vaTTu ATum
      vil Er uzavar ve mun2ai cIRUr"

Another sangam text, akanAnURu talks about raised platform
for setting an oven. "tI il aTuppin2 araGkam pOla"

A sangam text, Kalittokai 74 where a girl dances on araGku.
   " vaL itaz uRa nITi vayagkiya oru katir
    avai pukaz araGkin2 mEl ATuvAL aNi nutal "

ParipATal quote for a girl dancing on arangam.
   " paTu kaN imiz koLai payin2Ran2ar ATum
    kaLi nAL araGkin2 aNi nalam puraiyum "

araGku(stage, raised platform) for playing vaTTu,
"araGku in2Ri vaTTu ATiyaRRE
nirampiya nUl in2Rik kOTTi koLal" - TirukkuRaL 401
"nirai iruntu mANTa aragkin2uL vaTTu
karai iruntArkku eLiya pOr"   -pazamozi (a didactic work like TirukkuRaL).

CilappatikAram where araGku is the islet between two rivers
(cf. srirangam = tiruvarangam) "ARRu vI aragkattu vIRRu vIRRu Aki".

CilappatikAram and Manimekalai epics have scores of
occurence for "araGku/araGkam" as dance stage. An example from Manimekalai.
  "akal man2ai aragkattu Aciriyar tammoTu
  vakai teri mAkkaTku vaTTaNai kATTi
  ATal puNarkkum aragku iyal makaLirin2
  kUTiya kuyiluvak karuvi kaN tuyin2Ru
  paNNuk kiLai payirum paN yAzt tIm toTai
  koLai val AyamOTu icai kUTTuNTu"...

Regards,
N. Ganesan






_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN  Thu Aug 19 12:18:26 1999
From: abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN (Bharat Gupt)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 99 12:18:26 +0000
Subject: Krishna's hallIsaka dance
Message-ID: <161227051575.23782.13955298712952839727.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

N. Ganesan wrote:
>
> Sanskrit hallIza etc. could represent Proto-Dravidian *allica.
>
> hal(l)-("move, shake") is, according to Turner (CDIAL 14001-14018),
> a loanword from Dravidian. This hal(l)a- might be derived
> from Tamil alaGku/alacu/alai(cu)  etc. meaning
> 'to wave, shake, move, roam, wander' etc.
>
> Compare DEDR entry on Tamil alliyam 'Krishna's dance when he broke
> the tusk of the elephant that was set upon him by Kamsa'. This
> alliyam dance by Krishna to kill kuvalayapita elephant occurs in
> CilappatikAram. Tamil alliyan_ 'stray elephant separated from the
> fold' and Malayalam alliyan 'female elephant' (DEDR 258).
> These words might also be derived from Tamil alanku/alacu/alai(cu)
> etc. meaning 'to wave, shake, move, roam, wander' etc. (DEDR 240)
> from which could come both 'stray (= roaming, wandering, vagabond)
> elephant' and 'dance (with shaking, moving)'.
>
> The last part of hallIza/hallISa/hallIsa has three different
> kinds of sibilants (s,z,S) which certainly suggests a
> non-Sanskritic origin. While it is difficult to explain through
> Sanskrit etymology this later part, -isa in hallIza(ka),
> a Dravidian origin for -iza / -iyam is most likely. It might be
> DEDR no. 469 Tamil iyaGku etc. 'movement' (also iyal 'dance'),
>
>   From the citations given in Monier-Williams, it is clear that
> -ka- at the end of hallIsaka is the deminutive suffix so frequently
> added to Sanskrit nouns at a later stage.
>
> So, PDr. *allica as the source for hallIsaka, may have important
> implications for the roots of Indian dance. Similarly, are "ranga"
> (dance stage) and tamil 'arangu' (dance stage, small island between
> rivers) related?
>
> F.B.J. Kuiper, Varu.na and Viduu.saka,
> On the origin of the Sanskrit Drama, Amsterdam, etc. 1979. Cf.,
> e.g.:
> -- p. 116: "An entirely different thesis has been defended by
> Indu Shekar, who argued that the drama was a product of an
> non-Aryan culture of India. The present study will show why I
> think that the evidence available points to a different conclusion."
> -- p. 116, n. 29: "It is true, influence of non-Aryan cultures has
> too often been invoked, without the slightest proof , as a _deus
> ex machina_ to explain difficult problems. If, however, there are
> specific (mostly linguistic) indications pointing to that conclusion,
> there is obviously no point in ignoring their existence, our task
> then being to try to understand what the role of the influence can
> have been in the whole context of Indian culture."
>
>   "hallIsa" may well be one such linguistic indication.
>
> Regards,
> N. Ganesan
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

A Response:

On the basis of one or two or even a few linguistic terms, it is not only unfair to
decide upon the origin of drama/natya but is a wrong methodology to explore the origins.

It has been suggested by those who were anxious of tracing the Greek origins of Indian
drama that hallisaka , could have been derived from "hellas" (like the "yavanika"). And
that is as good a guess as its hypothetical linkage to dravidian tongues.  Even in
modern Hindi and Gujarati, hil,hilana,hale, all  mean movement (and could have come from
dravida bhashas). But is that enough to decide about  the origins of a dance form ?

 Perhaps modern linguistic methodologies and even ancient method of vyutpattih are not
sufficient to trace the origin or shaping of an art form. An art form is not merely a
name but is a living form, a sharira. Its name alone cannot decide its origin. Many
Indian communists have named their daughters Natashas and many sikhs are called  Amrika
Singh. A tenuous link is not an origin.

Hallisaka is a minor dance genre, not a rupaka of substantial standing not even part of
the ten rupakas enunciated by Bharata Muni in the Natyashastra.  Can a mere dance step
contribute towards the development of a major art like theatre? Hallisaka might have
been a Dravida or Greek dance but its presence alone does not give Greek or Dravidian
origins to Inian Theatre and Natya.

Theories of origin are themselves suspect as they imply "first use credit" which is
impossible to establish in art and culture born of interchange. The ancient were wiser
in atributing the first use to gods than to races or cultures.

In terms of distinguishable features in the art of theatre, music and dance, such as the
technology of musical instruments and musical grammar, the most ancient location of the
practice of Indian drama, music and dance seems to have been the Gandhara region or
modern Afghanistan, as evidenced from the Brahmanas, the epics, and the Natyashastra.
The same affinity in the performing arts in terms of musical grammar, theatrical
expressions, musical scales of rural songs and general art aesthetics exists even now
from Greece to Assam, the South of India included (where a remarkable improvisation has
happened since medieval times).
Bharat Gupt
Associate Professor, Delhi Univ.
PO BOX 8518 , ASHOK VIHAR , DELHI 110052 , INDIA
tel:724-1490 , fax 741-5658
bharatgupt at vsnl.com
webpage: http://personal.vsnl.com/bharatgupt/




From steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE  Thu Aug 19 12:09:35 1999
From: steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Roland Steiner)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 99 14:09:35 +0200
Subject: Krishna's hallIsaka dance
In-Reply-To: <19990818201909.93473.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051578.23782.13775949354712066692.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Mr Ganesan,
As I already wrote to you in an earlier private message, I
consider it possible that Skt. hallii"saka as a technical designation
of an uparuupaka (``secondary play") might finally be of
Dravidian origin. Nevertheless, you have to take notice of the
fact that the term hallii"saka does not occur in the
Naa.tya"saastra but has been merely mentioned only by
Abhinavagupta in his commentary to the Naa.tya"saastra (Vol.
1, 2nd ed. Baroda 1956, p. 181 [1st ed. 1926, p. 183]).
Moreover, the reference to Da.n.din?s Kaavyaadar"sa is
somewhat misleading since it is not Da.n.din who uses the term,
but only a modern commentator on his work (Premacandra
Tarkavaagii"sa, 1863 A.D.).
Apart from one or two Hariva.msa passages (only in the
appendix of the critical edition) and ``Bhaasa?s" Baalacarita
(which I would date not earlier than the 7th century), a relatively
old record of the word halliisaka in Skt. is Kaamasuutra 2.10 (p.
181, 2nd ed. Nir.naya Saagara Press 1900) where it designates
a kind of circular dance, and not an uparuupaka (this is also true
for the Baalacarita).

In short: hallii"sa(ka) or halliisaka has been used by some critics
as a technical designation for a special kind of uparuupaka (with
Abhinavagupta being the earliest and, by the way, NOT by
Dhanika in his commentary to the Da"saruupaka); cf., e.g.,
Vaagbha.ta?s Kaavyaanu"saasana (K. M. 43, p. 18), Bhoja?s
"S.r"ngaaraprakaa"sa (ch. 11); Vi"svanaatha?s Saahityadarpa.na
6.307. Saagaranandin (pobably not earlier than the 13th century)
is comparatively exhaustive when he says: A hallii"saka has
``seven, eight or nine female characters. The style is principally
kai"sikii. There is much rhythmical music. It is in one act. One
male character predominates. The language is not elevated. For
example, Keliraivataka" (Naa.takalak.sa.naratnako"sa 3154 ff.).
Thus, the term hallii(")saka neither plays an early nor an
important role within the dramaturgical tradition (As is well
known, the two leading types of a play proper are the naa.taka
and prakara.na). Therefore, to see in hallii(")saka a linguistic
indication pointing to the conclusion that the drama was a
product of a non-Aryan culture of India, is obviously going a bit
too far, I think.

>  Similarly, are "ranga" (dance stage) and tamil 'arangu' (dance
> stage, small island between rivers) related?
In my book ``Untersuchungen zu Har.sadeva?s Naagaananda
und zum indischen Schauspiel"  [``Investigations into
Har.sadeva?s Naagaananda and Indian Drama"] (Swisttal-
Odendorf 1997, p. 114 f.) I have made another proposal,
connecting the word ra"nga with the root ra(~n)j meaning ``to be
delighted". I think, to put it briefly, that ra"nga originally means
``entertainment, delight" and ra"ngapii.tha (attested already in the
Naa.tya"saastra, where it is the technical term for ``stage")
accordingly means a ``platform for an entertaining performance,
stage"; thus puurvara"nga would literally mean:
``PREperformance, PREplay" (and not ``PREstage"). Then, with
time, the word ra"nga as an abbreviation for ra"ngapii.tha came
to mean ``stage".

With regards,
Roland Steiner




From Palaniappa at AOL.COM  Thu Aug 19 23:18:26 1999
From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 99 19:18:26 -0400
Subject: use of "dravida" in Sanskrit?
Message-ID: <161227051584.23782.9134572958332165832.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Since nobody responded to M. M. Deshpande's question, consider the following.

There is positive evidence that there were some who thought of the speakers
of Tamil, Malayalam, Telugu, and Kannada are dramiDas. This is found in the
lIlAtilakam, a fourteen century Sanskrit text on the maNipravALam  (See
"Sanskrit Influence on Malayalam" by K. Kunjunni Raja, IJDL, v.21, no.2,
p.50-105). Raja adds, "It was Robert Caldwell who used the term Dravidian to
this family of languages, and established that these South Indian languages
belong to a family totally different from Sanskrit." But K. N. Ezhuthachan
discusses the lIlAtilakam's use of the word Tamil to refer to Malayalam in
the following words. ( The History of the Grammatical Theories in Malayalam,
p. 66)
"The writer makes it clear that the word "Tamil" used above is kEraLabhASa
and not pANDyabhASa, i.e., the Tamil proper. He explains: "The people of
Kerala can be called dramiDas and hence their language is called Tamil which
is an apabhRamza (corrupted form) of that word.[footnote 6] It is well known
that the cOLas, kEraLas and pANDyas are dramiDas".
      The author of lIlAtilakam adds that some people say that the Kannadigas
and Andhras also are dramiDas, but it is not so.  His reasons are:-
(1) Their languages are different from the language of tiruvAymozi which is
called dramiDa vEda.
(2) They have an alphabet different from that of the Tamilians. He quotes a
Sanskrit verse showing the greatness of saThakOpa or nammALvAr. .."

Footnote 6:
"The modern view is that Tamil, initially changed into dramiDa, became
drAviDa later. The Sanskrit and PrakRt works give only the from <sic>
dramiDa. The author's above-noted statement clearly proves that the old
Malayalam scholars had a clear idea of the origin of their language, which
they considered as a variety of Tamil; but which as our author emphasizes
later, had an individuality of its own. The writer always uses the word
kEraLa for cEra."

Even though the author of lIlAtilakam did not include Kannadigas and Andhras
in his definition of dramiDas, clearly there were others who considered
Tamils, Malayalis, Kannadigas and Andhras to be dramiDas. This was at least
five centuries before Caldwell.

Thus, Rev. Caldwell did not discover a totally new Dravidian identity as some
seem to think (or , in some cases, deplore :-)).

Regards
S. Palaniappan




From tlk at MATH.KU.DK  Thu Aug 19 18:17:39 1999
From: tlk at MATH.KU.DK (Toke Lindegaard Knudsen)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 99 20:17:39 +0200
Subject: Questions regarding Vedic sacrifices
In-Reply-To: <199906071750.TAA04987@korovev.stm.it>
Message-ID: <161227051582.23782.5145103846686189129.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indology members,

I have been studying the geometrical contents in the Sulbasutras
and in this connection I have a few questions which some of you
may shed some light on.

1*  Some of the fire-altars described in the Sulbasutras use bricks
which are not rectangular or simple division of rectangular bricks.
For example, the bricks for the altar shaped as a chariot wheel.
They can be bounded by arcs of a circle.  My question is: has any
such bricks been uncovered in archeological findings?  Subhash
Kak seems to imply that the answer is no in one article (Indian
Journal of History of Science, Vol. 32(4), 1997, pp. 307-314), but I
have no other references.  Does anyone know?  What about other
bricks used for fire-altars?  What has been recovered
archeologically?

2*  In one article (Indian Journal of the History of Science, Vol. 25(1-
4), 1990, pp. 4-19) A. K. Bag states that "the scholars were
ordered to maintain strict secrecy of the occurence of important
results from other schools." (p. 10)  Bag is here speaking of the
geometrical and mathematical constructions found in the
Sulbasutras of Baudhayana and Apastamba who belong to different
schools.  The similarity thus reflects, in Bag's opinion, that both
schools took from an older source as there were no exchange
between the schools.  Now, this is interesting.  Can anyone give
references to this "secrecy" between schools?  In particular the
schools of Baudhayana, Apastamba, Manava and Katyayana.  I
am trying to trace mathematical development in India and thus this
could be very significant.

Thank you very much.

Sincerely,
Toke Lindegaard Knudsen
tlk at math.ku.dk




From hoysala at WORLDNET.ATT.NET  Fri Aug 20 03:35:55 1999
From: hoysala at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Shikaripura Harihareswara)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 99 20:35:55 -0700
Subject: "Hallisaka /Hallishaka"
Message-ID: <161227051586.23782.16610519313682441261.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

======
Dear Friends in the Indology Group,
I am refering to the book"Studies in the Natyashastra" by Dr G H
Tarlekar.(Motilal Banarasidas Publn, 1991 Second Edition). This is his
Doctoral thesis with special reference to the Sanskrit Drama in Performance.
He refers to Hallisaka ( the women dance in a circle with one hero at the
center) in classical Sanskrit plays, and quotes Dr V S Agrawal
("Harshacharita" - Eka Samskritijka Adhyayana, Bihar Rashtrabhasaha
Parishad, Ptna 1953, pp 33-34) as Agrawal opiining that 'Hallisaka' is
derived from Ionian Elysian. He states-
"The ancient Aryabhata region had the Indian Raasa and Ionian Slysian
mixed. ...". Dr Tarlekar identifies the group dance in Baalacharita and
Paancharaatra of Bhasa as Hallisaka.  Also, he mentions that "Natyashastra
with Abhnava Bharathi's commtr." (G O S Baroda, Vol 1, p181) quotes ancient
authorities giving the definitions of Hallisaka ( and other Nrutthamaka
Prabhandas such as Dombika, Shidgaka, Bhaanika, Raasaka etc.).
2.  "Saahitya Darpana" 555, may also throw some light on "Hallisham", one
of the 18 minor dramatic compositions (uparupakas).
3.  Any study about "hallisaka" should be done relative to "Raasa", and HH
Wilson's Commentary  and page full of footnotes on Vishnu Purana 13. 47-
61, Vol II, p 737- 740 ( Nag Publications, 1989) and of course, Tenth Canto
of Bhagavata - will help.
-Harihareswara
Stockton, California
=================




From abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN  Fri Aug 20 00:10:56 1999
From: abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN (Bharat Gupt)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 00:10:56 +0000
Subject: Krishna's hallIsaka dance
Message-ID: <161227051588.23782.1523319094060089956.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

N. Ganesan wrote:
>
> >On the basis of one or two or even a few linguistic terms, it is not only
> >unfair to  decide upon the origin of drama/natya but is a wrong
> >methodology to explore the origins.
>
> Thanks, Prof. Gupt. On the other hand, this is the first time
> a secondary dance, hallIsaka, is derived from Dravidian.
> I agree that few more important words have to be shown
> that way.
>
> Regards,
> N. Ganesan
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

The Naytasastra has many more such words. Muraja for instance is another dravidian
origin.
But as I do not know any Southern language ( life is short and art great , O bios brchis
e techne makra , as the Greeks said it ) but can only guess.
But that only ondicates interchange and fusion that art is born out of.
Regards,
Bharat Gupt




From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Aug 20 14:57:19 1999
From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 07:57:19 -0700
Subject: pANi as style/school
Message-ID: <161227051593.23782.13945444923844944911.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

  Among the traditional schools of BharatanATyam, pANi
is used as style/school. Eg., pantaNainallUr pANi where
Mrinalini Sarabhai got her training.

Does pANi as a style/school of dance occurs in Natyashastra
or elsewhere? Is it one of the DasarUpakas?
Heard that pANi as "hand" does not have IE origins,
despite long attempts to show that way.

Could these "pANi" be related to tamil "paN-" (to do)?

Regards,
N. Ganesan

---------------------------------------------------------------
Cologne Sanskrit lexicon

  Entry   pANi
  Meaning 2 m. (said to be fr. %{paN}) the hand RV. &c. &c. (often
          ifc. = holding in the h?hand e.g. %{asi-p-} , holding a
          sword in the  s?sword in h?hand ; %{pANiM-grah} or
          %{-Nau-kR} , to take the  h?hand of a bride , marry ;
          %{-niMdA} , to give the h?hand in marriage) ; a hoof. RV.
          ii , 31 , 2 ; N. of Sch. on th Das3a-rupaka Cat. [Orig
          %{palni} ; cf. Gk. $ ; Lat. {palma} ;  Angl. Sax.
          &188673[615 ,2] {folm} ; Germ. {fu10hlen} ; Eng.
          {feel}.]
-----------------------------------------------------------------




_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM  Fri Aug 20 17:08:29 1999
From: smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM (Swaminathan Madhuresan)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 10:08:29 -0700
Subject: pANi as style/school
Message-ID: <161227051597.23782.4491503246299637118.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

--- hans henrich hock <hhhock at STAFF.UIUC.EDU> wrote:
 > For the most likely IE etymology, see the entry from the Cologne Sanskrit
 > lexicon which N. Ganesan was kind enough to append to his message.

   Is it correct to take skt. hasta, hindi haath  - have more to do
   with IE roots pANi?


> >---------------------------------------------------------------
> >Cologne Sanskrit lexicon
> >
> >  Entry   pANi
> >  Meaning 2 m. (said to be fr. %{paN}) the hand RV. &c. &c. (often
> >          ifc. = holding in the h?hand e.g. %{asi-p-} , holding a
> >          sword in the  s?sword in h?hand ; %{pANiM-grah} or
> >          %{-Nau-kR} , to take the  h?hand of a bride , marry ;
> >          %{-niMdA} , to give the h?hand in marriage) ; a hoof. RV.
> >          ii , 31 , 2 ; N. of Sch. on th Das3a-rupaka Cat. [Orig
> >          %{palni} ; cf. Gk. $ ; Lat. {palma} ;  Angl. Sax.
> >          &188673[615 ,2] {folm} ; Germ. {fu10hlen} ; Eng.
> >          {feel}.]
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com




From hhhock at STAFF.UIUC.EDU  Fri Aug 20 15:42:54 1999
From: hhhock at STAFF.UIUC.EDU (hans henrich hock)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 10:42:54 -0500
Subject: pANi as style/school
In-Reply-To: <19990820145720.64741.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051595.23782.16600914504716663359.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

For the most likely IE etymology, see the entry from the Cologne Sanskrit
lexicon which N. Ganesan was kind enough to append to his message.

Hans Henrich Hock


>  Among the traditional schools of BharatanATyam, pANi
>is used as style/school. Eg., pantaNainallUr pANi where
>Mrinalini Sarabhai got her training.
>
>Does pANi as a style/school of dance occurs in Natyashastra
>or elsewhere? Is it one of the DasarUpakas?
>Heard that pANi as "hand" does not have IE origins,
>despite long attempts to show that way.
>
>Could these "pANi" be related to tamil "paN-" (to do)?
>
>Regards,
>N. Ganesan
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>Cologne Sanskrit lexicon
>
>  Entry   pANi
>  Meaning 2 m. (said to be fr. %{paN}) the hand RV. &c. &c. (often
>          ifc. = holding in the h?hand e.g. %{asi-p-} , holding a
>          sword in the  s?sword in h?hand ; %{pANiM-grah} or
>          %{-Nau-kR} , to take the  h?hand of a bride , marry ;
>          %{-niMdA} , to give the h?hand in marriage) ; a hoof. RV.
>          ii , 31 , 2 ; N. of Sch. on th Das3a-rupaka Cat. [Orig
>          %{palni} ; cf. Gk. $ ; Lat. {palma} ;  Angl. Sax.
>          &188673[615 ,2] {folm} ; Germ. {fu10hlen} ; Eng.
>          {feel}.]
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From Alan.Thew at LIVERPOOL.AC.UK  Fri Aug 20 09:44:06 1999
From: Alan.Thew at LIVERPOOL.AC.UK (Alan Thew)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 10:44:06 +0100
Subject: Hindi conference (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227051591.23782.1178293534302697078.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>?From an old member, I have set the Reply-To field to him...

--
Alan Thew                                       alan.thew at liverpool.ac.uk
Computing Services,University of Liverpool      Fax: +44 151 794-4442

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Dear members of the List:

Please find below details of an all-day seminar, "Hindi in the Next
Century," to be held in Perth, Australia on Saturday, September 11, 1999.
Unfortunately the conference is been organised in great haste, so apologies
go out for the lack of advance notice. Anyone interested in presenting a
paper or otherwise participating would be most welcome indeed.

Paul Arney
Treasurer,
The Hindi Academy of Western Australia
paul_arney at bigpond.com <mailto:paul_arney at bigpond.com>
phone & fax: + (618) 9330 3198


-------------------
The Hindi Academy of Western Australia:
Seminar On
HINDI IN THE NEXT CENTURY

The Hindi Academy of Western Australia is pleased to announce that it will
be holding a seminar on 11 September 1999 called "Hindi in the Next
Century". During this all-day conference the importance of the Hindi
language to Indians living in Australia will be examined from a variety of
perspectives.

With the world-wide dominance of English, increasing globalization, and
growing access to the Internet, the relevance of Hindi to future generations
of Indian-Australians as a vehicle for the transmission of Indian culture,
beliefs and values seems increasingly problematic. Yet Hindi is the national
language of India and the fourth most widely spoken language in the world.
Closer economic ties between Australia and India have been much touted by
both the business community and politicians, with the emerging middle class
in India heralded as a market of vast, untapped potential. Members of
Perth's Indian community and academics from around Australia will examine
these and related issues, as well as discuss developments in Hindi pedagogy.
The seminar, which has been planned to coincide with the golden jubilee of
the declaration of Hindi as India's national language, will include
presentations in both English and Hindi.


This seminar will be inaugurated by the
Honourable Mike Board JP, MLA
Minister for Works; Services; Youth; Citizenship and Multicultural Interests

The keynote address will be delivered by
His Excellency C. P. Ravindranathan
The High Commissioner of India


Date: 11 September 1999
Time: 9.00am - 5.00pm
Venue: Hollis Theatre No 1, Curtin University of Technology, Bentley Campus,
Perth
(Car Park 3 has been reserved for Hindi Seminar attendees)
Cost: $10 per person (includes lunch, morning and afternoon tea & coffee)
RSVP: Payment must be received by Monday 6 September 1999. Cheques are to be
made out to The Hindi Academy of Western Australia and sent with
registration form to the Secretary, The Hindi Academy of Western Australia,
PO Box 70, Bull Creek, WA 6154



The Hindi Academy of Western Australia is committed to serving the interests
of the Hindi-Urdu speaking community of Perth. The academy organises various
activities throughout the year including cultural evenings, radio programs,
picnics, quizzes, debates and seminars. The academy also publishes a
bi-monthly newsletter and an annual magazine in Hindi. For further
information about The Hindi Academy of Western Australia and its activities
contact the President, Dr. Dilawar Singh (+[61]8 9354 7051)
<dsingh at webace.com.au <mailto:dsingh at webace.com.au>>; or the Secretary, Dr.
Ravi Tiwari (+[61]8 9417 8394) <ravi at possum.murdoch.edu.au
<mailto:ravi at possum.murdoch.edu.au>>.




From steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE  Fri Aug 20 09:13:49 1999
From: steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Roland Steiner)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 11:13:49 +0200
Subject: Krishna's hallIsaka dance
In-Reply-To: <19990819145104.37729.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051589.23782.1630216341309185438.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On 19 Aug 99, at 7:51, N. Ganesan wrote:
>    I do not know about ra(~n)j,  And how it gets transformed to
> "ranga".
Cf., e.g., Skt. a~nj, anakti ``anoint" : a"nga; .r(~n)j, .r~njate
``direct, stretch, attain" : -.r"nga (RV); bha~nj, bhanakti [Perf.:
babha~nja] ``break" : bha"nga; yuj, yunakti ``join" : -yu"nga;
ra(~)j, rajyati / ra~njati [Perf.: rara~nja] ``color; be delighted":
ra"nga; sa(~n)j, sajati [Perf.: sasa~nja] ``hang" : sa"nga;
sva(~)nj, svajate ``embrace" : -sva"nga.

With regards,
Roland Steiner




From shrinivast at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Aug 20 20:33:15 1999
From: shrinivast at HOTMAIL.COM (Shrinivas Tilak)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 13:33:15 -0700
Subject: Bricks in Vedic Sacrifice
Message-ID: <161227051600.23782.5109893106682620887.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

   With reference to the query by Toke Lindegaard Knudsen concerning the
shape and size etc of the bricks used in ancient Vedic sacrifices, I just
came across a relevant article by R. P. Kulkarni entitled "Indian
Engineering" in the web page <orientalthane.com> sponsored by the Oriental
Institute, Thane, India. He might be in a better position to supply
additional information.
   ST


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From jdwhite at EMAIL.UNCC.EDU  Fri Aug 20 19:29:45 1999
From: jdwhite at EMAIL.UNCC.EDU (J. Daniel White)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 20:29:45 +0100
Subject: Query on Peacock Myths, Stories
Message-ID: <161227051598.23782.16077334851179814102.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

Apart from simple notations on the use of the peacock as a vehicle for a
deity, does anyone know of myths or traditional stories in which the peacock
figures prominently as a focus of the story?

Thanks.

Dan White




From abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN  Fri Aug 20 21:50:45 1999
From: abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN (Bharat Gupt)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 21:50:45 +0000
Subject: pANi as style/school
Message-ID: <161227051604.23782.15115658016927647264.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

N. Ganesan wrote:
> 
>   Among the traditional schools of BharatanATyam, pANi
> is used as style/school. Eg., pantaNainallUr pANi where
> Mrinalini Sarabhai got her training.
> 
> Does pANi as a style/school of dance occurs in Natyashastra
> or elsewhere? Is it one of the DasarUpakas?
> Heard that pANi as "hand" does not have IE origins,
> despite long attempts to show that way.
> 
> Could these "pANi" be related to tamil "paN-" (to do)?
> 
> Regards,
> N. Ganesan
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Cologne Sanskrit lexicon
> 
>   Entry   pANi
>   Meaning 2 m. (said to be fr. %{paN}) the hand RV. &c. &c. (often
>           ifc. = holding in the h?hand e.g. %{asi-p-} , holding a
>           sword in the  s?sword in h?hand ; %{pANiM-grah} or
>           %{-Nau-kR} , to take the  h?hand of a bride , marry ;
>           %{-niMdA} , to give the h?hand in marriage) ; a hoof. RV.
>           ii , 31 , 2 ; N. of Sch. on th Das3a-rupaka Cat. [Orig
>           %{palni} ; cf. Gk. $ ; Lat. {palma} ;  Angl. Sax.
>           &188673[615 ,2] {folm} ; Germ. {fu10hlen} ; Eng.
>           {feel}.]
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

PANi is a musical term in the Natyasastra and all the later musicological works till 
17th cent.  I am competent to speculate on Bharatnatyam terms, but the general tendency 
after the 16th/17th cent is that many classical terms from natya were given limited and 
transformed meanings in the arts. "Bani" , gati, dharmi, etc., are many such examples.
Anga, as used by katthak dancers is yet another such term.
The acnient terms for style in performance are vritti and pravritti
Cordially yours,
Bharat Gupt
Associate Professor, Delhi Univ.
PO BOX 8518 , ASHOK VIHAR , DELHI 110052 , INDIA
tel:724-1490 , fax 741-5658
bharatgupt at vsnl.com
webpage: http://personal.vsnl.com/bharatgupt/




From tlk at MATH.KU.DK  Fri Aug 20 21:47:43 1999
From: tlk at MATH.KU.DK (Toke Lindegaard Knudsen)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 23:47:43 +0200
Subject: E-mail of Dr. R. P. Kulkarni.  Was: Bricks in Vedic Sacrifice
In-Reply-To: <19990820203315.98874.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051602.23782.1095464418021238948.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On 20 Aug 99, at 13:33, Shrinivas Tilak wrote:

>    With reference to the query by Toke Lindegaard Knudsen concerning the
> shape and size etc of the bricks used in ancient Vedic sacrifices, I just
> came across a relevant article by R. P. Kulkarni entitled "Indian
> Engineering" in the web page <orientalthane.com> sponsored by the Oriental
> Institute, Thane, India. He might be in a better position to supply
> additional information.

Thank you for the information.  I looked the at the article and it
would seem that Dr. Kulkarni might be in a good position to shed
light on these matters.  Would you happen to know his e-mail or
address?  I have at hand one article of his but it is 20 years old so
the address given there might not apply anymore.

Thank you very much for your kind help.

Sincerely,
Toke Lindegaard Knudsen
tlk at math.ku.dk




From venkatraman_iyer at HOTMAIL.COM  Sat Aug 21 12:40:24 1999
From: venkatraman_iyer at HOTMAIL.COM (Venkatraman Iyer)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 99 05:40:24 -0700
Subject: pANi as style/school
Message-ID: <161227051610.23782.9945098639333915984.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

    The following quote says pANi is "said to be from %{paN}
  the hand RV". But while talking of IE cognates "Orig.
  %{palni}". This is not clear to me.

     Is pANi from paN or palni? Does Sayana say that
  pANi is from paN-? What is the cognate of pANi in
  Old Iranian? Is hasta in Old Iranian? How is the
  retroflex -N- in pANi explained  while comparing with IE cognates?

  Regards,
  V. Iyer

 >---------------------------------------------------------------
 >Cologne Sanskrit lexicon
 >
 >  Entry   pANi
 >  Meaning 2 m. (said to be fr. %{paN}) the hand RV. &c. &c. (often
 >          ifc. = holding in the h?hand e.g. %{asi-p-} , holding a
 >          sword in the  s?sword in h?hand ; %{pANiM-grah} or
 >          %{-Nau-kR} , to take the  h?hand of a bride , marry ;
 >          %{-niMdA} , to give the h?hand in marriage) ; a hoof. RV.
 >          ii , 31 , 2 ; N. of Sch. on th Das3a-rupaka Cat. [Orig
 >          %{palni} ; cf. Gk. $ ; Lat. {palma} ;  Angl. Sax.
 >          &188673[615 ,2] {folm} ; Germ. {fu10hlen} ; Eng.
 >          {feel}.]



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN  Sat Aug 21 09:38:32 1999
From: abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN (Bharat Gupt)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 99 09:38:32 +0000
Subject: pANi as style/school
Message-ID: <161227051606.23782.1583750061388418991.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Bharat Gupt wrote:
> 
> N. Ganesan wrote:
> >
> >   Among the traditional schools of BharatanATyam, pANi
> > is used as style/school. Eg., pantaNainallUr pANi where
> > Mrinalini Sarabhai got her training.
> >
> > Does pANi as a style/school of dance occurs in Natyashastra
> > or elsewhere? Is it one of the DasarUpakas?
> > Heard that pANi as "hand" does not have IE origins,
> > despite long attempts to show that way.
> >
> > Could these "pANi" be related to tamil "paN-" (to do)?
> >
> > Regards,
> > N. Ganesan
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > Cologne Sanskrit lexicon
> >
> >   Entry   pANi
> >   Meaning 2 m. (said to be fr. %{paN}) the hand RV. &c. &c. (often
> >           ifc. = holding in the h?hand e.g. %{asi-p-} , holding a
> >           sword in the  s?sword in h?hand ; %{pANiM-grah} or
> >           %{-Nau-kR} , to take the  h?hand of a bride , marry ;
> >           %{-niMdA} , to give the h?hand in marriage) ; a hoof. RV.
> >           ii , 31 , 2 ; N. of Sch. on th Das3a-rupaka Cat. [Orig
> >           %{palni} ; cf. Gk. $ ; Lat. {palma} ;  Angl. Sax.
> >           &188673[615 ,2] {folm} ; Germ. {fu10hlen} ; Eng.
> >           {feel}.]
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
> 
> PANi is a musical term in the Natyasastra and all the later musicological works till
> 17th cent.  I am competent to speculate on Bharatnatyam terms, but the general tendency
> after the 16th/17th cent is that many classical terms from natya were given limited and
> transformed meanings in the arts. "Bani" , gati, dharmi, etc., are many such examples.
> Anga, as used by katthak dancers is yet another such term.
> The acnient terms for style in performance are vritti and pravritti
> Cordially yours,
> Bharat Gupt
> Associate Professor, Delhi Univ.
> PO BOX 8518 , ASHOK VIHAR , DELHI 110052 , INDIA
> tel:724-1490 , fax 741-5658
> bharatgupt at vsnl.com
> webpage: http://personal.vsnl.com/bharatgupt/

A CORRECTION;

"I AM NOT COMPETENT TO SPECULAT N BHARATNATYAM TERMS"
i MISSED WRITING  NOT, IT WAS NOT A FREUDIAN SLIP !
BHARAT GUPT




From dbgray62 at HOME.COM  Sat Aug 21 15:59:27 1999
From: dbgray62 at HOME.COM (DAVID GRAY)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 99 11:59:27 -0400
Subject: Paaravatii's names
Message-ID: <161227051612.23782.9787888971862464916.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In Tibetan texts I have found several references to a goddess named
"dka' thub zlog ma", "She who thwarts/turns back ascesis (tapas)."  The
goddess clearly is Paaravatii, the name refering to her disturbance of
Siva's asceticism.  I could venture a guess that term might be
translation of a  Sanskrit compound such as "taponivartinii", but I was
wondering if anyone has encountered this name in Sanskrit texts, and if
so how it occurs in Sanskrit. Thank you.

David Gray
Columbia University




From mahadevasiva at HOTMAIL.COM  Sat Aug 21 20:30:19 1999
From: mahadevasiva at HOTMAIL.COM (S Krishna)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 99 13:30:19 -0700
Subject: Brahman origin myths
Message-ID: <161227051613.23782.428827473643553944.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Prof DEshpande asks:

         Currently I am looking into origin myths about different Brahman
communities.  There are the famous stories in works like the
Sahyaadrikha.n.da about the origins of the Chitpavan, Karhade, and
Sarasvata Brahmins of Maharashtra and Goa.  Are there any origin stories
about the Brahman communities in Tamilnad, Andhra and Karnataka?
         Best,
                                 Madhav Deshpande>>


W.r.t. Andhra Pradesh, there exists the following stories:

1. about the origin myth of a particular subsect, namely the "prathamazAkhI"
of the niyogi brahmin sect:

The story goes that that this community was cursed to turn into mlecchas at
12:00 in the afternoon for an hour after which they could turn back into
Brahmins. Thus they traditinally left their homes at noon for an hour and
went back only after cleansing themselves. The crude expression for members
of this sect is "madhyAnamu mAla"( He who becomes an outcast in the
afternoon).

2. There is a community of toddy tappers in Northern Coastal Andhra Pradesh
whose origin is supposed to be partly Brahmin:

A Brahmin allegedly agreed to marry his daughter to a member of the lower
castes if he( the low caste bridegroom) could set water on fire. The
ingenious bridegroom-to-be concocted a combination of spirits which looked
like water but could catch fire. The women of this community traditionally
didn't consume meat or fish in the evenings as a result of their Brahmin
background.

3. The dominant sect among the Niyogis is called "AruvEla niyOgi"
(6000 Niyogi Brahmins). This is because of a story about 6000 of them
immigrating from Kanauj in the 10th/11th centuries. I am not sure
if this is myth/history.

Regards,
Krishna


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Sat Aug 21 12:35:28 1999
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 99 13:35:28 +0100
Subject: Invitation
In-Reply-To: <199908211714.MAA08235@del2.vsnl.net.in>
Message-ID: <161227051608.23782.7914174378537279443.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

You have sent me multiple copies of unsolicited spam advertising materials
against my wishes, seeking to promote your India book fair at
www.indiabookfair.com . Because of this gross breach of Netiquette, I
shall certainly not visit your site, and I shall try my utmost to
discourage others from using your services.  You have shown that your
commercial methods are clearly unscrupulous and indiscriminate, and I
would not feel secure in using any services which you might mediate.

I am a list owner, and I am forwarding this message to 600 of my
colleagues on the list, who share an interest in Indian studies.


Dominik Wujastyk




From marpally_n_p at YAHOO.COM  Sat Aug 21 22:11:18 1999
From: marpally_n_p at YAHOO.COM (Nikhil Rao)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 99 15:11:18 -0700
Subject: Brahman origin myths
Message-ID: <161227051615.23782.2578542774186061883.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The same story about prathamashakhi brahmins holds good
in maharashtra, karnataka and tamil nad too. While it is applied to
brahmins of the shukla yajur school, I am not sure whether it applies
to both the kanva and madhyandina sub schools. Atleast in Maharashtra,
there exist followers of both the schools. Whereas in the southern
states, only followers of the kanviya shakha exist. (If the meaning of
prathamashakhi is taken literally then it should apply to the
madhyandina school, since madhyandina is supposed to be the
first/foremost disciple of sage yagnavalkya ?)

Nikhil
--- S Krishna <mahadevasiva at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Prof DEshpande asks:
>
>          Currently I am looking into origin myths
> about different Brahman
> communities.  There are the famous stories in works
> like the
> Sahyaadrikha.n.da about the origins of the
> Chitpavan, Karhade, and
> Sarasvata Brahmins of Maharashtra and Goa.  Are
> there any origin stories
> about the Brahman communities in Tamilnad, Andhra
> and Karnataka?
>          Best,
>                                  Madhav Deshpande>>
>
>
> W.r.t. Andhra Pradesh, there exists the following
> stories:
>
> 1. about the origin myth of a particular subsect,
> namely the "prathamazAkhI"
> of the niyogi brahmin sect:
>
> The story goes that that this community was cursed
> to turn into mlecchas at
> 12:00 in the afternoon for an hour after which they
> could turn back into
> Brahmins. Thus they traditinally left their homes at
> noon for an hour and
> went back only after cleansing themselves. The crude
> expression for members
> of this sect is "madhyAnamu mAla"( He who becomes an
> outcast in the
> afternoon).
>
> 2. There is a community of toddy tappers in Northern
> Coastal Andhra Pradesh
> whose origin is supposed to be partly Brahmin:
>
> A Brahmin allegedly agreed to marry his daughter to
> a member of the lower
> castes if he( the low caste bridegroom) could set
> water on fire. The
> ingenious bridegroom-to-be concocted a combination
> of spirits which looked
> like water but could catch fire. The women of this
> community traditionally
> didn't consume meat or fish in the evenings as a
> result of their Brahmin
> background.
>
> 3. The dominant sect among the Niyogis is called
> "AruvEla niyOgi"
> (6000 Niyogi Brahmins). This is because of a story
> about 6000 of them
> immigrating from Kanauj in the 10th/11th centuries.
> I am not sure
> if this is myth/history.
>
> Regards,
> Krishna
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit
> http://www.msn.com
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com




From vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM  Sat Aug 21 22:25:55 1999
From: vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM (Vishal Agarwal)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 99 15:25:55 -0700
Subject: Brahman origin myths
Message-ID: <161227051617.23782.635847476952682036.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In fact, the title 'Prathama Sakha' is normally applied to Kanvas, not the
Madhyanadinas.  However, such designations are not static and change
depending on the prevelance of various Sakhas at that time. It is possible
that most of the texts which give this designation to the Kanvas are of
Southern Provenance (although the Kanvas were earlier prevelant in the North
in areas like Himachal Pradesh, Bengal, Nepal etc. as well--now only
Madhyanadinas are found).

I have seen this term being applied to the Sakalas (among Rigvedins) and
also to the Kathakas and Taittiriyas. The latter even hold that they follow
the 'Adya Yajurveda', and similar claims are made by the
Maitrayaniyas/Charakas and Madhyandinas as well sometimes. N Indian Vaidiks
are of the firm opinion that of the 2 Samhitas (Madhyandina and Kanva), it
is the Madhyandina which is closest (or even identical) to the archetype
Vajasneyi Samhita.

I refer you to the book 'Yogeeswara Yajnavalkya' by E. R. Krishnamurty
(Madras, 1984) for more details on the claims of Kanvas.

Regards

Vishal

----Original Message Follows----
From: Nikhil Rao <marpally_n_p at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Brahman origin myths
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:11:18 -0700

The same story about prathamashakhi brahmins holds good
in maharashtra, karnataka and tamil nad too. While it is applied to
brahmins of the shukla yajur school, I am not sure whether it applies
to both the kanva and madhyandina sub schools. Atleast in Maharashtra,
there exist followers of both the schools. Whereas in the southern
states, only followers of the kanviya shakha exist. (If the meaning of
prathamashakhi is taken literally then it should apply to the
madhyandina school, since madhyandina is supposed to be the
first/foremost disciple of sage yagnavalkya ?)

Nikhil



_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM  Sat Aug 21 22:56:08 1999
From: vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM (Vishal Agarwal)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 99 15:56:08 -0700
Subject: Brahui
Message-ID: <161227051619.23782.8134459004648100044.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

What is the earliest attested presence of Brahui as a spoken language in
Baluchistan? How does the status of Brahui as a 'Dravidian' language fit
into the theory that IVC was essentially Dravidian?

It is well known that in Pre-Islamic India, several Kannada dynasties
occuppied lands up North (Gujarat, Maharashtra. Kannada inscriptions are
even said to be found in Rajasthan). Is it possible that the Brahuis are in
fact descendents of the Kannada elite that followed these ruling dynasties
and then happened migrate to Baluchistan? Are there any Baluchi traditions
which hint at these migrations?

>?From the photographs that I have seen, the Brahui speakers have very 'Aryan'
features and are indistinguishible from their neighbours. Then, how does one
account for the fact that the Dravidians in that region were absorbed by
invading/migrating Aryans but managed to retain the Dravidian basis of their
language?

Thanks

Vishal


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN  Sat Aug 21 15:59:39 1999
From: abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN (Bharat Gupt)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 99 15:59:39 +0000
Subject: address of KAtz
Message-ID: <161227051622.23782.10345162940203943189.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does any body know the email address or fax number of
Professor MARC KATZ , ingallilsvagen 15, 656 38 KARLSTAD , SWEDEN
I shall be very much obliged,
Cordially,
Bharat Gupt
Associate Professor, Delhi Univ.
PO BOX 8518 , ASHOK VIHAR , DELHI 110052 , INDIA
tel:724-1490 , fax 741-5658
bharatgupt at vsnl.com
webpage: http://personal.vsnl.com/bharatgupt/




From hhhock at STAFF.UIUC.EDU  Sat Aug 21 23:24:02 1999
From: hhhock at STAFF.UIUC.EDU (Hans Henrich Hock)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 99 18:24:02 -0500
Subject: Brahui
In-Reply-To: <19990821225608.92049.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051621.23782.7766732469145647021.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

For a recent linguistic assessment of Brahui in its extreme northwestern
context see Elfenbein's contribution to Sanford Steever (ed.) The Dravidian
Languages (with references).  The Brahui themselves believe they are not
indigenous to the area they now occupy, but their belief that they hail
from Aleppo, Syria, must be considered fanciful.  (The latter information
comes from Jules Bloch.)  The traditions of the speakers of the other two
North Dravidian languages, KuRux and Malto, suggest an earlier origin in
present-day Karnataka and migration via the Narmada valley.  Note that
there is also a tribal language in Karnataka, Koraga, which exhibits
linguistic features linking it to the North Dravidian languages.  The
overall evidence, then, favors a northern migration of KuRux, Malto, and
Brahui, rather than relic status.  (For further discussion see my paper,
Pre-.Rgvedic convergence between Indo-Aryan (Sanskrit) and Dravidian?  A
survey of the issues and controversies.  In:  Ideology and status of
Sanskrit:  Contributions to the history of the Sanskrit language, ed. by J.
E. M. Houben, pp. 17-58.  Leiden: Brill.  1996.)

I hope this helps.

Hans Henrich Hock


>Dear Indologists,
>
>What is the earliest attested presence of Brahui as a spoken language in
>Baluchistan? How does the status of Brahui as a 'Dravidian' language fit
>into the theory that IVC was essentially Dravidian?
>
>It is well known that in Pre-Islamic India, several Kannada dynasties
>occuppied lands up North (Gujarat, Maharashtra. Kannada inscriptions are
>even said to be found in Rajasthan). Is it possible that the Brahuis are in
>fact descendents of the Kannada elite that followed these ruling dynasties
>and then happened migrate to Baluchistan? Are there any Baluchi traditions
>which hint at these migrations?
>
>>From the photographs that I have seen, the Brahui speakers have very 'Aryan'
>features and are indistinguishible from their neighbours. Then, how does one
>account for the fact that the Dravidians in that region were absorbed by
>invading/migrating Aryans but managed to retain the Dravidian basis of their
>language?
>
>Thanks
>
>Vishal
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From vsundaresan at HOTMAIL.COM  Sun Aug 22 20:18:29 1999
From: vsundaresan at HOTMAIL.COM (Vidyasankar Sundaresan)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 99 13:18:29 -0700
Subject: A question on Vedic vANa - 1
Message-ID: <161227051628.23782.17781143161256355775.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <Palaniappa at AOL.COM> wrote:

>In
>his Aryans in the Rigveda, Kuiper reiterates ......
......
The general tendency at all times
>was to 'sanskritize' words with the foreign phoneme b by changing it to v
>or
>bh
(p.33)

The phrase "at all times" in the above quote is still valid. A small aside
in this connection might be interesting. The Bengali tendency to convert v
to b in their speech is well known. However, among contemporary Bengali
authors, there is a tendency to revert to v from b (when they are not
writing in Bengali). In some instances, authors do such a thorough job of it
that they change b to v even in words that require the phoneme b. For
example, bAhya becomes vAhya, nirbIja becomes nirvIja etc, in Mukerji's
translation of Hariharananda Aranya's commentary to the Yogasutra Bhashya.
Sanskritization seems to be going awry!

Vidyasankar


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From Palaniappa at AOL.COM  Sun Aug 22 19:21:21 1999
From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 99 15:21:21 -0400
Subject: A question on Vedic vANa - 1
Message-ID: <161227051624.23782.1602147282308961559.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

Related to my research into the ancient Indian bards, I would like some 
information from Vedic/IE experts. However, before I pose the question, I 
need to present some information which I shall split into two posts to stay 
within the size limit. 

I am interested in the relationship, if any, between DEDR 4068 (Ta. pAN song, 
melody; pANar caste; praise, flattery; pANan2 an ancient class of Tamil bards 
and minstrels; pANi song, melody, music; pANu song, paN music; paNNu (paNNi-) 
to sing in an instrument (as a tune), tune, tune musical instruments; paNNal 
tuning the lute strings according to the required melody;
) and Vedic vANa' 
(instrumental) music, voice; vA'NI music, sound, voice; plur. choir of 
singers or musicians. Kuiper  in his Rigvedic Loanwords, IJDL, v.21, no.2, p. 
18-19, says "The restriction of these words to music is not favourable to the 
proposed connection with bhan- "to say" (PMW 32, cf. Tam. paNi - to say, 
speak, declare"). Note Tam. paNNu- "to sing in an instrument, as a tune"". In 
his Aryans in the Rigveda, Kuiper reiterates his view that bANa, vANa, and 
vANI do not have a plausible IA etymology (p. 79-80). He also says "A 
development v>b within Indo-Aryan can probably be excluded for Vedic in 
general. A few cases with a secondary b in zaunaka are due to a less correct 
transmission of this text and may stem from a much later (post-Vedic) period. 
Cf.6.16.1 AbayU'-, 10.2.17 bANa'- 'music'
.The general tendency at all times 
was to 'sanskritize' words with the foreign phoneme b by changing it to v or 
bh
(p.33)

We have an interesting parrallel in the historical period in the south of 
India which is given in the second part of this discussion. 

Regards
S. Palaniappan




From Palaniappa at AOL.COM  Sun Aug 22 19:21:25 1999
From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 99 15:21:25 -0400
Subject: A question on Vedic vANa - 2
Message-ID: <161227051626.23782.11760836457940916960.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A chieftain in northern Tamilnadu was called "pANan2" in CT period. But
lOkavibhAga, a Jain Sanskrit work, possibly translated from prakrit into
Sanskrit, says it was copied in zAka 380 (458 AD) by the Jain sarvanandin in
the village named pATalika in the pANA-rASTra. According to Lewis Rice (EI,
no.24, p.334), " pATalika, the village in which sarvanandin made his copy,
may be pATaliputra, in the South Arcot District. The periya-purANam makes it
the seat of a large Jaina monastery. pANArASTra is no doubt the territory of
the bANa kings."  The earliest reference to "bANa" dynasty I have found is in
the Talagunda Sanskrit inscription (belonging roughly to the same period as
the Jain text) which refers to one bRihad-bANa. F. Kielhorn (EI, v. 8, p. 28)
says, "According to Prof. Hultzch (South-Ind. Inscr. Vol. III, p. 89) the
capital of the bANa dynasty appears to have been tiruvallam, 'as one of its
names was vANapuram, and as it belonged to the district of perumbANappADi,'
i.e. the country of the Great bANa. Tiruvallam is only about 40 miles west by
north of Conjeevaram (kAJchIpura). It may be noted that the bRihad-bANa of
our text exactly corresponds to the Tamil perumbANa; bRihat apparently forms
an essential part of the name, and is not a mere epitheton ornans."

The correct transliteration of the Tamil word is "perumpANappATi" which in
actual pronunciation will be "perumbANappADi". This name is found in
inscriptions.  Some scholars have argued that inscriptional reference to
perumpANan2  actually  refers to a type of bard called "perumpANan2". (See M.
Rajamanickam's "pattuppATTu ArAycci", p.614-5) A CT work perumpANARRuppaTai
deals with just such a bard.  We know that in the northern dialect of Tamil
and in Telugu, word-initial p > b in some cases (eg. palli, balli lizard).
Could this be a case where an initial  p-> b-> v-? If so, was the Vedic
situation similar?

Thanks in advance for any comments.

Regards
S. Palaniappan




From vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM  Mon Aug 23 00:12:21 1999
From: vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM (Vishal Agarwal)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 99 17:12:21 -0700
Subject: A question on Vedic vANa - 1
Message-ID: <161227051631.23782.15010999238501696454.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The trends in Bengali actually parallel in contemporary Hindi as well.
However, it must be pointed out that the confusion between 'v' and 'b' is
not recent or 'Sanskritic'.
Even in Vedic times, a Lakshana Grantha of the Atharvaveda
(Dantyoshthavidhi) had to be written to clarify which mantras have a 'v' and
which have a 'b'. The reason is obvious--close similarity of these sounds
and the mode of pronouncing them. As such, the related sounds 'pha' and
'bha' also occur relatively rarely in the Vedas and even to this day, there
is considerable mix up between 'b', 'bha', 'pha' in Hindi and other North
Indian Languages.

Vishal


----Original Message Follows----
From: Vidyasankar Sundaresan <vsundaresan at HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: A question on Vedic vANa - 1
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:18:29 PDT

Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <Palaniappa at AOL.COM> wrote:

>In
>his Aryans in the Rigveda, Kuiper reiterates ......
......
The general tendency at all times
>was to 'sanskritize' words with the foreign phoneme b by changing it to v
>or
>bh
(p.33)

The phrase "at all times" in the above quote is still valid. A small aside
in this connection might be interesting. The Bengali tendency to convert v
to b in their speech is well known. However, among contemporary Bengali
authors, there is a tendency to revert to v from b (when they are not
writing in Bengali). In some instances, authors do such a thorough job of it
that they change b to v even in words that require the phoneme b. For
example, bAhya becomes vAhya, nirbIja becomes nirvIja etc, in Mukerji's
translation of Hariharananda Aranya's commentary to the Yogasutra Bhashya.
Sanskritization seems to be going awry!

Vidyasankar


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From harryspier at HOTMAIL.COM  Sun Aug 22 21:13:35 1999
From: harryspier at HOTMAIL.COM (Harry Spier)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 99 17:13:35 -0400
Subject: History  use and etymology of dhImahi
Message-ID: <161227051629.23782.7184923411655719909.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear list members,

The sanskrit word dhImahi (well known of course from the Gayatri mantras)is
listed by Whitney in his "Roots, Verb-Forms and Primary Derivatives of the
Sanskrit Language" under the root "dhI, dhIdhI, 'think'" as a lone entry
under class II present tense (dating from the Brahmana period). i.e. "Pres.
[2.] dhImahi B.+ --".  He remarks at the end of the entry "The form dhImahi
belongs here only as thus used later, with a false apprehension of its
proper meaning."  Whitney also lists adhImahi dhImahi and dhImahe under the
root "dhA, dadh, 'put'" among his aorist forms (as appearing in the Vedas).
Also under section 837 b. of his grammar he lists dhImahi as optative form
but remarks "...and probably from A roots,...dhImahi (which might also be
augmentless indicative since adhImahi and adhItAm also occur).".

(Quotes from M-W) are from on-line dictionary from U. of Koeln)
Monier-Williams under entry: "dhI to perceive, think,reflect desire..." says
"...the forms dhImahi and adhAyi belong rather to 1. dhA". M-W lists
adhImahi dhImahi and dhImahe under the entry for root dhA.  He lists both
meanings(among others) there of "to put" and "to direct the mind or
attention".

Can someone tell me:

1. Did dhImahi at some point change its meaning in its later use?  And was
this due to a "misapprehension in its meaning" and if so what was the
misapprehension and what was its original meaning?

2. Is Whitney indicating that dhImahi is used as a present tense without an
optative or injunctive sense?

Thanks in advance

Harry Spier


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM  Mon Aug 23 00:26:03 1999
From: vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM (Vishal Agarwal)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 99 17:26:03 -0700
Subject: S. Madhuresan + D. Frawley
Message-ID: <161227051633.23782.6041367684809130062.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Mr. Madhuresan,
Appropos your earlier posting below. could you list some (5 would be
sufficient) contradictions in Dr. Frawley's
works for my benefit?
Thank you in advance,
Vishal
______________

Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:48:46 -0700
From:         Swaminathan Madhuresan <smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jamshid
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Dear Toke,

Don't take David Frawley seriously. Most of his writings
is garbage and with several contradictions, though he has
good support from the Hindutva folks. This will become clear
as you spend years studying old India.

Best wishes,
SM


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM  Mon Aug 23 02:25:21 1999
From: smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM (Swaminathan Madhuresan)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 99 19:25:21 -0700
Subject: S. Madhuresan + D. Frawley
Message-ID: <161227051635.23782.6816652255293517716.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> Dear Mr. Madhuresan,
> Appropos your earlier posting below. could you list some (5 would be
> sufficient) contradictions in Dr. Frawley's
> works for my benefit?
> Thank you in advance,
> Vishal

  Dear Sir,
  As an expert on Vedic Sarasvati civilization, Dr. Frawley's
  writings are of interest. However, his writings about
  Dravidian languages like Tamil are not convincing;
  To quote his writings about Dravidian, I don't have
  his books now.
  Regards,
  SM




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com




From clopez at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Mon Aug 23 05:27:04 1999
From: clopez at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Carlos Lopez)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 99 01:27:04 -0400
Subject: History  use and etymology of dhImahi
In-Reply-To: <19990822211336.11092.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051636.23782.13077763997925190634.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hoffman treats this particular form in his AufsAtze sur Indoiranistic, bd 2,
1976, pp.483-485

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK]On Behalf Of Harry
> Spier
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 5:14 PM
> To: INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK
> Subject: History use and etymology of dhImahi
>
>
> Dear list members,
>
> The sanskrit word dhImahi (well known of course from the
> Gayatri mantras)is
> listed by Whitney in his "Roots, Verb-Forms and Primary
> Derivatives of the
> Sanskrit Language" under the root "dhI, dhIdhI, 'think'" as a
> lone entry
> under class II present tense (dating from the Brahmana
> period). i.e. "Pres.
> [2.] dhImahi B.+ --".  He remarks at the end of the entry
> "The form dhImahi
> belongs here only as thus used later, with a false apprehension of its
> proper meaning."  Whitney also lists adhImahi dhImahi and
> dhImahe under the
> root "dhA, dadh, 'put'" among his aorist forms (as appearing
> in the Vedas).
> Also under section 837 b. of his grammar he lists dhImahi as
> optative form
> but remarks "...and probably from A roots,...dhImahi (which
> might also be
> augmentless indicative since adhImahi and adhItAm also occur).".
>
> (Quotes from M-W) are from on-line dictionary from U. of Koeln)
> Monier-Williams under entry: "dhI to perceive, think,reflect
> desire..." says
> "...the forms dhImahi and adhAyi belong rather to 1. dhA". M-W lists
> adhImahi dhImahi and dhImahe under the entry for root dhA.
> He lists both
> meanings(among others) there of "to put" and "to direct the mind or
> attention".
>
> Can someone tell me:
>
> 1. Did dhImahi at some point change its meaning in its later
> use?  And was
> this due to a "misapprehension in its meaning" and if so what was the
> misapprehension and what was its original meaning?
>
> 2. Is Whitney indicating that dhImahi is used as a present
> tense without an
> optative or injunctive sense?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Harry Spier
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>




From smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM  Mon Aug 23 13:27:50 1999
From: smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM (Swaminathan Madhuresan)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 99 06:27:50 -0700
Subject: [Q] -aa to -oo in Indian
Message-ID: <161227051640.23782.6673634071876353063.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

"pApA" changes Pope over time. Is this observable in
Indo-Aryan and Dravidian?

Ie., Does word-intial aa/a becomes o?
Or, Caa/ca -> Coo/Co? (C= a consonant)
Thanks a bunch for examples.

Regards,
SM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com




From ekelin at BAHNHOF.SE  Mon Aug 23 09:50:23 1999
From: ekelin at BAHNHOF.SE (Sven Ekelin)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 99 09:50:23 +0000
Subject: Address of KAtz
Message-ID: <161227051638.23782.2013462066581154525.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Address of KAtz
***************

On Saturday, August 21, Bharat Gupt wrote

     >Does any body know the email address or fax number of
     >Professor MARC KATZ [......]

The  email is <marc.katz at kau.se>.
The fax to the department is +54 700 14 98.

**********************************************************************
Sven Ekelin
ekelin at bahnhof.se
**********************************************************************




From harryspier at HOTMAIL.COM  Tue Aug 24 11:22:04 1999
From: harryspier at HOTMAIL.COM (Harry Spier)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 99 07:22:04 -0400
Subject: Ordering books from Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series
Message-ID: <161227051642.23782.11879309247348350226.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear members,

Does anybody know how it is possible to order books from the Chowkhamba
Sanskrit Series? Preferably from a dealer in the U.S. or if this is not
possible then from a dealer in India (in Delhi if possible).

Thanks

Harry


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From lsrinivas at YAHOO.COM  Tue Aug 24 15:51:55 1999
From: lsrinivas at YAHOO.COM (Lakshmi Srinivas)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 99 08:51:55 -0700
Subject: New issue of online journal on Kannada literature
Message-ID: <161227051649.23782.9674906176406731289.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi Robert,

Nice magazine but I must confess that red letters on
black background is really a strain on the eyes.

Thanks and Warm Regards,




--- Robert Zydenbos <zydenbos at BIGFOOT.DE> wrote:
> Just a short reminder: the second online issue of
> Aniketana, the
> English-language journal of the Karnataka Sahitya
> Academy, is
> now available at http://www.aniket.com.
>
>
> Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos
> Mysore (India)
> e-mail zydenbos at bigfoot.de
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com




From jrasik at COLMEX.MX  Tue Aug 24 14:00:00 1999
From: jrasik at COLMEX.MX (Rasik Vihari Joshi)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 99 09:00:00 -0500
Subject: Ordering books from Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series
Message-ID: <161227051648.23782.6541343360077594417.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Dear Harry,There is " Chaowkhamba Sanskrit Pratisthan,38 U.A.Bungalow
Road,Jawaharnagar,Post BoxNo.2113,Delhi-110007"Telephone No.91.11.236391
Rasik Vihari Joshi


: Indology <INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
>From: Rasik Vihari Joshi <jrasik at colmex.mx>
>Subject: Re: Ordering books from Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series
>
>At 07:22 AM 24/08/99 EDT, you wrote:
>>Dear members,
>>
>>Does anybody know how it is possible to order books from the Chowkhamba
>>Sanskrit Series? Preferably from a dealer in the U.S. or if this is not
>>possible then from a dealer in India (in Delhi if possible).
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Harry
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________________________
>>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>>




From cssetzer at MUM.EDU  Tue Aug 24 16:12:21 1999
From: cssetzer at MUM.EDU (Claude Setzer)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 99 11:12:21 -0500
Subject: Ordering books from Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series
Message-ID: <161227051651.23782.1749734510658752412.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

----- Original Message -----
From: Harry Spier <harryspier at HOTMAIL.COM>



> Dear members,
>
> Does anybody know how it is possible to order books from the Chowkhamba
> Sanskrit Series? Preferably from a dealer in the U.S. or if this is not

Their store in Delhi is just about 50 feet form Motilal Banarsidas. I have
had excellent luck getting the t walk down the street and pick up books for
me and then mail to the US.

Claude Setzer




From ondracka at TIGER.VSCHT.CZ  Tue Aug 24 13:42:12 1999
From: ondracka at TIGER.VSCHT.CZ (Lubomir Ondracka)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 99 13:42:12 +0000
Subject: Ordering books from Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series
In-Reply-To: <19990824112205.71019.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051644.23782.18200178897966932466.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> Does anybody know how it is possible to order books from the Chowkhamba
> Sanskrit Series? Preferably from a dealer in the U.S. or if this is not
> possible then from a dealer in India (in Delhi if possible).

Ask Mr. Pankaj Jain from Munshiram Manoharlal in Delhi (mrml at mantraonline.com).
I have very good experience with this publisher and bookseller. You can ask
them for any book published in India.

 Lubomir Ondracka
=============================================
 Institute of Philosophy & Religious Studies
 Charles University
 Namesti Jana Palacha 2
 110 00 Prague 1
 Czech Republic
---------------------------------------------
 e-mail:   ondracka at tiger.vscht.cz
---------------------------------------------
 phone:    00420-2-21619356
=============================================




From biernack at CCAT.SAS.UPENN.EDU  Tue Aug 24 17:53:54 1999
From: biernack at CCAT.SAS.UPENN.EDU (Loriliai Biernacki)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 99 13:53:54 -0400
Subject: Ordering books from Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series
In-Reply-To: <002801beee4b$74fc4400$0fcc91d0@cs>
Message-ID: <161227051653.23782.11086709034392539304.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Harry,
plese let us know which method you chose and how well it works.

Loriliai Biernacki

>----- Original Message -----
>From: Harry Spier <harryspier at HOTMAIL.COM>
>
>
>
>> Dear members,
>>
>> Does anybody know how it is possible to order books from the Chowkhamba
>> Sanskrit Series? Preferably from a dealer in the U.S. or if this is not
>
>Their store in Delhi is just about 50 feet form Motilal Banarsidas. I have
>had excellent luck getting the t walk down the street and pick up books for
>me and then mail to the US.
>
>Claude Setzer


Loriliai Biernacki
Dept. of Religious Studies
Campus Box 292
Boulder, CO 80309
(303) 735-4730
email: Loriliai.Biernacki at colorado.edu




From abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN  Tue Aug 24 17:34:50 1999
From: abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN (Bharat Gupt)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 99 17:34:50 +0000
Subject: Ordering books from Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series
Message-ID: <161227051646.23782.12640749046371415589.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Harry Spier wrote:
>
> Dear members,
>
> Does anybody know how it is possible to order books from the Chowkhamba
> Sanskrit Series? Preferably from a dealer in the U.S. or if this is not
> possible then from a dealer in India (in Delhi if possible).
>
> Thanks
>
> Harry
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

YOU CAN ORDER ALL KINDS OF INDOLOGICAL BOOKS THROUGH DK PRINTWORLD, NEW DELHI. WRITE AT
 dkprint at 4mis.com

BHARAT GUPT




From bernede at WLINK.COM.NP  Wed Aug 25 02:11:17 1999
From: bernede at WLINK.COM.NP (BERNEDE Franck)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 99 03:11:17 +0100
Subject: adress of Prof. Brendan Quayle
Message-ID: <161227051655.23782.10585996473506785534.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dears members,

Does any body know the email address or fax number of
Prof. Brendan Quayle (University of Dhuram) ?
Thanks

F. Bernede
cellist / ethnomusicologist
Off : UPR 299 du CNRS, Villejuif. France
Res  :Basnetgaon - Patan. N?pal
Tel :  00 977 1 528 051
Fax : 00 977 1 419 968 (Ambassade de France ? Kathmandu)
E. Mail :       bernede at wlink.com.np
        bernede@ easynet.fr

Courrier : c/o Bernadette Vasseux
Ambassade de france a Kathmandu / Nepal
service de la valise diplomatique
128bis rue de l'univrsite
75351 Paris 07 SP




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Wed Aug 25 12:58:38 1999
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 99 13:58:38 +0100
Subject: Hoax
Message-ID: <161227051660.23782.8625306308735546090.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear All

You may receive an email warning about "California Virus" or "Wobbler
Virus" urging you tp email everyone you know, to pass the warning on.

These do not exist, and the warning is a HOAX. Please do not pass the
warning on.

See  http://www.datafellows.fi/hoaxes/wobbhoax.htm

for further info from Datafellows

DW
Founder, INDOLOGY list.




From tlk at MATH.KU.DK  Wed Aug 25 12:25:42 1999
From: tlk at MATH.KU.DK (Toke Lindegaard Knudsen)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 99 14:25:42 +0200
Subject: Information needed on 1979 work
In-Reply-To: <s75bdfb5.078@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227051658.23782.2987065843507258467.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indology members,

I came across one reference

Satya Prakash and Usha Jyotishmati (1979), "The Sulba Sutras:
Texts on Vedic Geometry."  Allahabad: Ratna Kumari Svadhyaya
Sansthana.

Does anyone know whether this is a work in English?  I was able
to figure out whether this was an edition of Sulbasutras or an
English work.  Your help would be appreciated.

Sincerely,
Toke Lindegaard Knudsen




From mbose at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA  Thu Aug 26 03:22:44 1999
From: mbose at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA (Mandakranta Bose)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 99 20:22:44 -0700
Subject: Hallisaka
Message-ID: <161227051662.23782.14352736439269102186.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,
        There exists a lot of information on Hallisaka, a dramatic dance.
D. R. Mankad described it in his Types of Sanskrit Drama (Karachi,1936).
Dr.  Raghavan has discussed it at length in his book Bhoja's
Srngaraprakasa (Madras, 1963). Professor A.K.  Warder in his four volume
book on Indian Kavya Literature (New Delhi,1972-83) has also discussed it.
My own book, Movement and Mimesis (Kluwer Academic Publishers, Dordrecht,
1991) has a lengthy section on it.  A forthcoming article of mine on
Uparupakas, which includes Hallisaka, is due to appear in the Journal of
Hindu Studies this fall, edited by Professor Bruce Sullivan.

Mandakranta Bose
Department of Religious Studies/
Director, Centre for South Asia and India Research
Director, Programme in Inter-cultural Studies in Asia
Institute of Asian Research
University of British Columbia
Vancouver B.C. V6T 1Z2
mbose at interchange.ubc.ca




From smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM  Thu Aug 26 21:10:21 1999
From: smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM (Swaminathan Madhuresan)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 99 14:10:21 -0700
Subject: A question on Vedic vANa - 1
Message-ID: <161227051665.23782.11622009370257531842.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

ta. pANan (bard) to vedic vANa may parallel the changes observed
in changes of village names in Gujarat, Sind etc.,
ta. paLLi => valli/vali (-oli/-ol in modern Gujarat)
ta. -pATi => -vATi. A. Parpola, Deciphering the Indus script, p. 170
"The place-names of the Harappan area provide one more potential source
of clues to identifying the Harappan language. Settlement names are
particularly relevant, because they may go back to the Early Harappan
period but not further. Among the elements which denote `village'
or `town' in the Harappan area there are several of common occurence that
are of non-Aryan etymology, and all of these have a Dravidian origin
and occur frequently in South Indian place-names. They include nag'ara
(cf. Binag'ara in Sind on Ptolomy's map [...]); palli `village' (whence
valli and modern -oli, -ol in Gujarat), corresponding to South Dr.
paLLi; pATa(ka) or pATi (whence -vATa, -vATi etc., modern -vADaa, vAD,
etc., in Gujarat) as well as paTTana (Gujarati paTTan), all originally
`pastoral village' from the Dravidian root paTu `to lie down, to sleep'. "

 Does vANI (= Sarasvati) denote the female counterpart of `vANa', the bard?
Then, IVC is a vANI civilization? The river names vENA/vENI may also
be formed out of the same process: Dr. peNNA => veNA/veNI.

Regards,
SM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com




From venkatraman_iyer at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Aug 27 13:14:17 1999
From: venkatraman_iyer at HOTMAIL.COM (Venkatraman Iyer)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 99 06:14:17 -0700
Subject: tohna river
Message-ID: <161227051676.23782.6626799259345132270.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Ptolemy 7,1,29 Diamounas is Yamuna
>Nothing like Tohna (where h is impossible in ancient Greek).
>The only names in Ptolemy's 7th book (India, SEAsia, SriLanka) distantly
>similar are 7,1,52 Touana (a town) and 7,2,2 Tokosana (river in Bengal).

  Sri. R. Raghava Aiyangar in a 1908 tamil article
in the research jl., centamiz (founded by Ramnad Sethupathis)
quotes many poems that write tozunai for yamuna. RR says
that Ptolemy uses tOhna. Due to tamil alphabets, it could
mean dohna as well.

Don't know whether RR meant this "Touna" taking it as
ta. "tozunai". Is Touna a town on the banks of Yamuna?
Or the Ptolemy's info insuffiecient to determine?

Does Diamounas have any variants?
Like Doulounas, Diolunas, etc.,?

Thanks,
V. Iyer



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From ebryant at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Fri Aug 27 12:42:41 1999
From: ebryant at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Edwin Bryant)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 99 08:42:41 -0400
Subject: A question for RISA and Indology (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227051673.23782.11407502528945638144.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On behalf of someone not on these lists:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 99 09:43:19 PDT
From: Jan Brzezinski <janbrz at microtec.net>
To: Edwin Bryant <ebryant at fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: A question for RISA and Indology

The effeminate Hindu question, again

Dear scholars,

The question of Hindus being effeminate came up in the course of the
British colonial discourse and had a great influence on the development of
Hindu attitudes.


I would very much like to know whether anything of this sort came up
during the Muslim period. Did the conquering Muslims ever overtly accuse
Hindus of being effeminate? If so, where can I find references.

Thank you for your help.




From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Aug 27 15:59:12 1999
From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 99 08:59:12 -0700
Subject: Hallisaka
Message-ID: <161227051678.23782.3136949279972127897.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dr. Bose,

Thanks for references on HallIsakam. How do the references summarize
its etymology? PDr. *allica => hallIsa(ka) has been suggested.
hal(l) "move, shake" (CDIAL 14001-14018)
(compare ta. alacu/alai(cu)/alaGku "move,wave,shake")
iza/iSa/isa from DEDR 469
(compare ta. iyangu "move", etc.,)

The vedic verbal root iS(eSati) "to cause to move quickly"
is likely to be related to this Dr. iyangu/isangu/esangu
("to move, to go"). Probably, -Iza in gaNeza and Izvara
may belong to Dr. 'isangu'. Compare 'iyavuL' of sangam
texts as God, also Isan in srivaishna and saivaite ta. texts.

Regards,
N. Ganesan




_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com




From Klaus.Karttunen at HELSINKI.FI  Fri Aug 27 06:41:34 1999
From: Klaus.Karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 99 09:41:34 +0300
Subject: tohna river
In-Reply-To: <19990816182257.75734.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051669.23782.15201127391024345140.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Does Ptolomey refer to Yamuna (modern Jumna) river
>as something like tOhna? If so, what is the corresponding
>name for tohna in Sanskrit material?
>
>Sincerely,
>V. Iyer
>
Ptolemy 7,1,29 Diamounas is Yamuna
Nothing like Tohna (where h is impossible in ancient Greek).
The only names in Ptolemy's 7th book (India, SEAsia, SriLanka) distantly
similar are 7,1,52 Touana (a town) and 7,2,2 Tokosana (river in Bengal).

Regards

Klaus


Klaus Karttunen
Institute for Asian and African Studies
Box 59, 00014 Helsinki, Finland
tel. +358-9-191-22224, fax. +358-9-191-22094




From pradip2000 at YAHOO.COM  Fri Aug 27 19:03:32 1999
From: pradip2000 at YAHOO.COM (Gabriel)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 99 16:03:32 -0300
Subject: WEB SITE ON SANSKRIT
Message-ID: <161227051671.23782.4630528695828649886.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear friends,
                        A group of people from Argentina has published a
Sanskrit Web Site. It is both in English and Spanish. Our mission or purpose
is to spread the Sanskrit culture all over the world.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3502/index.html

It is based on frames but it has support for older non-frame capable
browsers. You are invited.




From abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN  Fri Aug 27 22:21:45 1999
From: abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN (Bharat Gupt)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 99 22:21:45 +0000
Subject: risa
Message-ID: <161227051680.23782.14984533311224423358.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

How do I become a member of the RISA list ?
Please give URLs,
Cordially,
Bharat Gupt
Associate Professor, Delhi Univ.
PO BOX 8518 , ASHOK VIHAR , DELHI 110052 , INDIA
tel:00-91-11-724-1490 , fax 741-5658
bharatgupt at vsnl.com
webpage: http://personal.vsnl.com/bharatgupt/




From garzilli at SHORE.NET  Sat Aug 28 04:15:11 1999
From: garzilli at SHORE.NET (Enrica Garzilli)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 99 00:15:11 -0400
Subject: JSAWS Vol. 5, No. 1 (Aug. 27, 1999)
Message-ID: <161227051682.23782.6149825742023487863.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

I am glad to inform you that you can read the *Journal of South Asia
Women Studies* Vol. 5, no. 1 on our WWW page http://www.asiatica.org/
Bagchee Associates, a leading Indological book dealer
(http://www.bagchee.com) supports this publication.

You will be able to read the JSAWS by becoming a member of the journal
(Life membership: US$ 35). http://www.asiatica.org

IN THIS ISSUE

NOTE FROM THE EDITOR: The *Asiatica Association *
http://www.asiatica.org/

PAPERS:
*Gender Equity Restricted: Indian Demographic Transition Delayed*, by
William M. Alexander
* Eurogamy as Racism Among South Asian Women: A Consequence of
Euro-Western Domination *, by  Ronald E. Hall

NEW TITLES: * Asian Women in the Information Age. New Communication
Technology, Democracy, and Women*, ed. by Ila Joshi, Singapore: Asian
Media Information and Communication Centre, s.d. Pp. VII+ 205. ISBN
9971-905-72-3 (E.G.)

ABTRACT of the PAPERS:

*Gender Equity Restricted: Indian Demographic Transition Delayed*, by
William M. Alexander

India combines an ecosystem condition of limited resources pro capita
and a strong emphases on the value of male lineage causing fatal
daughter syndrome and an abnormally low ratio of females to males.
Kerala is one state within India without fatal daughter syndrome, where
the ratio of females to males is normal, and the demographic transition
is nearly complete. Matrilineage in Kerala supports gender equity while
patrilineage in India does not. Inasmuch as Kerala has shared with India
the consequences of low resources pro capita without an emphasis on the
value of male lineage, restrictions on gender equity in India can
explain the delay of the Indian demographic transition.
                          * * * * *
*Eurogamy as Racism among South Asian Women: A Consequence of
Euro/Western Assimilation*, by Ronald E. Hall

A black/white dichotomy has historically dominated the concept of
Western racism. South Asian women, and other people of color, are
consistently portrayed as victim and those of European descent, as
perpetrators. In fact, following years of Euro/Western domination, South
Asian women act out racist behaviors vis-a-vis eurogamy. Eurogamy is a
form of selective exogamy, whereby men of European descent are
idealized. In an effort to assimilate, South Asian women then act out
racist behaviors by assuming the psychological demeanor of their
Euro/Western oppressors. The inability of scholars to acknowledge its
existence is reinforcing. Resolution will require a more encompassing
perspective of racism and South Asian women dialogue should confront
this issue directly.

********************************END*******************************
Happy reading!
--
Dr. Enrica Garzilli                 University of Perugia (ITALY)
Istituto di Linguistica                      Piazza Morlacchi, 11
06123 Perugia                  Tel./Fax: +39-75-585 3755 (office)
Editor-in-Chief,
Intl. Journ. of Tantric Studies, Journal of S. Asia Women Studies
htpp://www.asiatica.org/
*****************************************************************




From tlk at MATH.KU.DK  Sat Aug 28 17:29:39 1999
From: tlk at MATH.KU.DK (Toke Lindegaard Knudsen)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 99 19:29:39 +0200
Subject: Mistakes in carrying out Vedic sacrifices
In-Reply-To: <19990607172539.2600.rocketmail@web306.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051684.23782.14421590854641340465.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indology members,

>?From the Puranas we know the story of how Tvasta performed a
sacrifice after Indra had killed his son Visvarupa.  The purpose of
the sacrifice was to create an enemy of Indra.  However, due a
mistake in the prononciation of a mantra the sacrifice had a
different effect.

I am curious about other stories from the Vedas or puranas
concerning sacrifices that "went wrong" - particularly if the fault
was due to a mistake in the construction of the altar (wrong
dimensions, wrong area, etc.) or in the orientation of the altar.

I am aware of one story from the Mahabharata (Adi, LXI, 9ff) where
a king, desiring to perform a sacrifice, employs priests to measure
the measure the arena of the sacrifice and construct the altar.
However, these priests could not really get it together and finally
the errors in the construction was detected by a mason who was
knowledgeable in the science of architecture (vastu-vidya).

If anyone knows of references to such stories I would be happy to
hear.

Thank you very much.

Sincerely,
Toke Lindegaard Knudsen




From vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM  Sun Aug 29 02:31:24 1999
From: vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM (Vishal Agarwal)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 99 19:31:24 -0700
Subject: Seeking Information: Icons of Bhairava
Message-ID: <161227051686.23782.7108142670889927634.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

I am seeking information on the installation of icons of Bhairava within or
outside shrines. Please list the texts where the dimensions/form of such
images and their installation procedures might be described.

Best regards

Vishal

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM  Sun Aug 29 19:21:17 1999
From: vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM (Vishal Agarwal)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 99 12:21:17 -0700
Subject: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
Message-ID: <161227051690.23782.14784384187937334113.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists, I am posting review of the book "An Update on the AIT"
(Dr. Koenraad Elst) written by Dr. Rajaram (one of the key players in the
book). This is part 1
___________
Book review by N.S. Rajaram


        Update on the Aryan Invasion Debate by Koenraad Elst. 1999. Aditya
Prakashan,
New Delhi. 342 + x pages. Price Rs. 450 (HB). Reviewed by N.S. Rajaram

Created at a time when there was no scientific data from any source, using
tools and techniques that were the product of the same intellectual and
social
milieu that gave birth to comparative linguistics, the famous Aryan Invasion
Theory of India has held the fort for well over a century. For the better
part
of this period, which conspicuously but not exclusively included the period
of
European colonialism, it was more or less unchallenged as the history of
ancient India. It was only in the past few decades that a serious challenge
to this theory was mounted. At first it was dismissed as 'Hindu chauvinism',
in effect transferring to the Hindus the racist chauvinism of Western
scholars and
pseudo-scholars of the colonial period. But increasingly, scholars calling
themselves Indologists and Indo-Europeanists are finding their scholarship
and even their motives questioned by outsiders. As a result, the debate
today is not merely over dry facts and academic theories, but also political
and other
motives. The important thing is that there is a debate. (See the volume by
Deo
and Kamath in the References.) The book under review, Update on the Aryan
Invasion Debate by Koenraad Elst is a comprehensive account by a leading
scholar who has been at the center of this debate. In the process, he has
probably written also the theory's obituary.

An important point to note is that one of the strategies of the
'invasionists',
which the author exposes to telling effect, has been to avoid debate
altogether
by dismissing their adversaries as chauvinists and cranks. Even a decade
ago, a scholar raising questions about the truth of the Aryan invasion would
have been hard pressed to find an audience, much less a platform. Often
their
'refutations' of challenges to the theory were little more than 'haughty
dismissals' - as the American scholar A. Seidenberg put it. In addition, as
the
present reviewer can attest from his own experience, they took the form of
personal attacks. A certain Robert Zydenbos (or his ghostwriter) compared
this
reviewer to Hitler for questioning the Aryan invasion, and even exhorted him
to
accept responsibility for the Ayodhya demolition! (Since this reviewer
figures
prominently in the debate, references to his work cannot be avoided.) All
this
is told in fascinating detail in Update on the Aryan Invasion Debate.

Obviously, there is more to these 'debates' than meets the eye. It is not
just
obscure academics like Zydenbos and JNU (Leftist) propagandists like Romila
Thapar and Shereen Ratnagar who have indulged in such tactics. Even a
relatively high profile worker like Richard Meadow of the Peabody Museum at
Harvard has allowed himself such liberties. In his Preface to Johnathan
Kenoyer's Ancient Cities of the Indus Valley Civilization, Meadow tried to
dismiss the whole ofIndian scholarship by praising Kenoyer's work as being
"tempered by Western academic skepticism," where one does not see "those
wild flights of fancy or long leaps of faith that characterize some
literature of the region [India]." Of late even the publisher Voice of
India, which has specialized in bringing outimportant works that were kept
out by the establishment dominated publishing business, has come under
attack by scholars in India and the West. All this indicates some uneasiness
among these scholars, suggesting they are not reallysure of their ground.

To get back to the Aryan invasion, the study of ancient India, at least in
the
modern Western sense, may be said to have begun with Sir William Jones in
the late 18th century. One of Jones's discoveries was that Indian languages
-
Sanskrit in particular - and European languages are related. To account for
this, European scholars, the most famous of whom was F. Max M?ller, proposed
aninvasion of 'Aryans' from the Eurasian steppes. There were other currents
- like colonial politics and Christian missionary interests - that need not
detain us here. He assigned a date of 1500 BC for the invasion and 1200 BC
for thecomposition of the Rigveda. The reason for the date was his firm
belief in the Biblical chronology that assigned 23 October 4004 BC for the
Creation and c. 2448 for Noah's Flood, though he sought to give other -
equally fanciful -
explanations. Though their knowledge of the Vedas and the Sanskrit language
was limited, European scholars contrived to find and interpret a few
passages in the Vedas as the record of the invasion of fair skinned Aryans
and their victory over the dark skinned natives. In other words, the Aryan
invaders were
colonizers like themselves. As often the case, such theories tell us more
about
the people who created them than history.(To be contd.)


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From nasti at ASTERCITY.NET  Sun Aug 29 17:27:01 1999
From: nasti at ASTERCITY.NET (Piotr Janiak)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 99 19:27:01 +0200
Subject: Odp:      Mistakes in carrying out Vedic sacrifices
Message-ID: <161227051688.23782.13727667453131321587.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Toke,
You may find some references in:
1. "Sacrifice in the Brahmana Texts", by Ganesh Umakant Thite, ed. by
University of Poona, 1975
2. "PrajApati and PrAyazcitta", by J. Gonda - printed in one of the JAOS

Regards,

Piotr Janiak
University Of Warsaw
Poland

-----Wiadomo?? oryginalna-----
Od: Toke Lindegaard Knudsen <tlk at MATH.KU.DK>
Do: INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK <INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Data: 28 sierpnia 1999 19:41
Temat: Mistakes in carrying out Vedic sacrifices


Dear Indology members,

>???From the Puranas we know the story of how Tvasta performed a
sacrifice after Indra had killed his son Visvarupa.  The purpose of
the sacrifice was to create an enemy of Indra.  However, due a
mistake in the prononciation of a mantra the sacrifice had a
different effect.

I am curious about other stories from the Vedas or puranas
concerning sacrifices that "went wrong" - particularly if the fault
was due to a mistake in the construction of the altar (wrong
dimensions, wrong area, etc.) or in the orientation of the altar.

I am aware of one story from the Mahabharata (Adi, LXI, 9ff) where
a king, desiring to perform a sacrifice, employs priests to measure
the measure the arena of the sacrifice and construct the altar.
However, these priests could not really get it together and finally
the errors in the construction was detected by a mason who was
knowledgeable in the science of architecture (vastu-vidya).

If anyone knows of references to such stories I would be happy to
hear.

Thank you very much.

Sincerely,
Toke Lindegaard Knudsen




From GthomGt at CS.COM  Mon Aug 30 04:01:05 1999
From: GthomGt at CS.COM (George Thompson)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 00:01:05 -0400
Subject: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
Message-ID: <161227051693.23782.14591585485084783841.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It seems to me that if Rajaram wants us to take him seriously, he should
start, finally, now that the rest of us are preparing for the next
milllennnium, to make his entry into the twentieth century.  Why does he keep
on harping on an out of date scholar like poor Max Mueller.? Or even older
Sir Wm. Jones?  How long will it take Rajaram to enter the twentieth century?
How long is it polite for the rest of us to wait for him to catch up with the
 rest of us? The repetition in these arguments is nothing if not tedious. We
keep on rebuting the silly arguments that he poses. Hoiw much longer must we
endure the waste of time involved in restuing his banalities over and over
and over again? And what about  the accompanying insults? How long shall we
bite our tongues while this sort of charlatan persaudes all of India that it
is Atlantis all over again?

I for one am eager to advance reseach in my field. How much time should I
waste on this sort of uninformed ethnocentric rant?

Rajaram, put some facts on the table. Then let us debate them.

How can this review be called an 'update' when it says nothing, absolutely
nothing, about what has gone on  in the AIT debate over the past hundred
years?

Let the list see what kind of opponent stands before us.

George Thompson




From venkatraman_iyer at HOTMAIL.COM  Mon Aug 30 11:22:47 1999
From: venkatraman_iyer at HOTMAIL.COM (Venkatraman Iyer)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 04:22:47 -0700
Subject: P. Chowdhury
Message-ID: <161227051697.23782.3777608668629849550.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Scholars,

Would like to know the details on
a book by Chowdhury so that I can place an order.
The book title is something like
"The Indian origin of the Chinese Nation".

Is he also part of the school that propagates its ideology that
IE originated in India and spread westward also?

Regards,
V. Iyer

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From pandanet at WORLDNET.ATT.NET  Mon Aug 30 12:35:04 1999
From: pandanet at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Jogesh Panda)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 05:35:04 -0700
Subject: P. Chowdhury
Message-ID: <161227051703.23782.4258499118577989512.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

----- Original Message -----
From: Venkatraman Iyer <venkatraman_iyer at HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 4:22 AM
Subject: P. Chowdhury


> Dear Scholars,
>
> Would like to know the details on
> a book by Chowdhury so that I can place an order.
> The book title is something like
> "The Indian origin of the Chinese Nation".
>
> Is he also part of the school that propagates its ideology that
> IE originated in India and spread westward also?
>
> Regards,
> V. Iyer
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Dear Mr. Iyer:

Details on the Chowdhury book:

       Caudhuri, Paramesa:
       Indian origin of the Chinese nation : a challenging,
         unconventional theory of the origin of the Chinese ....
        Calcutta : Dasgupta & Co., 1990

  I have not read the book, so cannot say any more. I saw the book in the
Anthropology stacks. Hint: Anthropolgy of Scholarly Ideas ?

Good luck.

Jogesh Panda




From smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM  Mon Aug 30 13:54:57 1999
From: smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM (Swaminathan Madhuresan)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 06:54:57 -0700
Subject: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
Message-ID: <161227051705.23782.8005455738510224327.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

---Dr. Vishal Agarwal <vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Dear Indologists, I am posting review of the book "An Update on the AIT"
> (Dr. Koenraad Elst) written by Dr. Rajaram (one of the key players in the
> book). This is part 1

[cut]
> The book under review, Update on the Aryan
> Invasion Debate by Koenraad Elst is a comprehensive account by a leading
> scholar who has been at the center of this debate. In the process, he has
> probably written also the theory's obituary.

     Is Elst a Professor at any European university?
   Which dept.: Asian studies, religion, or indology.

[cut]
> It is not   just
> obscure academics like Zydenbos ...

   Atleast, the "just obscure " Dr. Zydenbos writes in this list along
 with many other Indologists. But have not seen Elst, Frawley or Rajaram do so.
 Any special e-lists where they exchange their "theories".


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com




From yavass at YV1041.SPB.EDU  Mon Aug 30 05:30:20 1999
From: yavass at YV1041.SPB.EDU (Yaroslav V. Vassilkov)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 09:30:20 +0400
Subject: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
Message-ID: <161227051695.23782.7786397761456949381.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I agree fully with George Thompson. How long will Mr. Rajaram (who is
obviously watching the "AIT debates" on our list) hide behind the backs
of his enthusiastic followers? When will he appear in person and produce
any serious argument against the Indo-European nature of Sanskrit or against
the location of IE homeland outside India (not against Max Mueller's "Aryan
Invasion theory" in the proper sense of the word which has been dead for
many decades)? I have not seen any argument of this kind yet: nothing at all,
but "patriotic" emotions.
                                                Yaroslav Vassilkov.

P.S. I was glad to learn that Romila Thapar and Shireen Ratnagar, Indian
scholars whose names are known all over the world, expressed in writing
what do they think about Mr. Rajaram's propagandistic "theory".
     By the way, I have never heard the name of such "leading scholar"
as K.Elst. Is he known for anything else than participation in this
"debate"?

                                                       Ya.V.




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Mon Aug 30 11:41:47 1999
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 12:41:47 +0100
Subject: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
In-Reply-To: <19990829192117.57486.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051699.23782.14805246888371562821.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Mr Agarwal,

Please, PLEASE keep your postings to the size recommended for INDOLOGY
postings (re-read the Rules).  The size should not be more than about 2k.
Your book review is three times this size.  This is exactly the type of
posting for which the mention of a URL would be ideal, and perfectly
sufficient.

I must caution you seriously that you risk being denied access to INDOLOGY
if you persist in posting messages significantly longer than the
recommended maximum length.

Sincerely
Dominik Wujastyk
Founder, INDOLOGY list.




From shrinivast at HOTMAIL.COM  Mon Aug 30 22:11:03 1999
From: shrinivast at HOTMAIL.COM (Shrinivas Tilak)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 15:11:03 -0700
Subject: "Masculine Pakistan, Feminine India"
Message-ID: <161227051717.23782.8069194361332971887.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

   In a recent post he sent to Edwin Bryant (and forwarded by EB to Indology
list) Jan Brzezinski asked,"Did the conquering Muslims ever overtly accuse
Hindus of being effeminate?" The following excerpt entitled "Masculine
Pakistan, Feminine India" is cited by Shahnaz Rouse in her chapter "The
Oursider(s) Within" in Appropriating Gender: Women's Activism and
Politicized Religion in South Asia," edited by Patricia jeffrey and Amrota
Basu (pp65-66). I thought it might be relevant to Jan's query. The excerpt
comes from a 1994 article by Rubina Saigol in the context of her discussion
of government sponsored school texts in Pakistan.

   "The period before the advent of Islam [in India] is always a "feminine"
period. It represents unbridled desire, darkness, mystery, strangeness and
uncontrolled moral laxity. After Islam conquers and subjugates the sensuous
pre-oedipal/pre-Islamic society, it brings the Law of the Father and the
society enters its moral and cleansed oedipal phase...The masculine finally
defeats the feminine and establishes its law. Conquest here is equivalent to
purification through insemination."



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From prasad_velusamy at HOTMAIL.COM  Mon Aug 30 22:12:39 1999
From: prasad_velusamy at HOTMAIL.COM (Prasad Velusamy)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 15:12:39 -0700
Subject: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
Message-ID: <161227051720.23782.3295219723285574420.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Caldwell's Grammar - most-cited English-language narrative in Tamil
>devotional discourse - belonged to this arsenal and authorized
>many of the founding assumptions of Tamil devotion. It popularized the key
>term "Dravidian" (based on the Sanskrit word drAviDa,
>itself a transmutation of tamiz) as the umbrella category for Tamil
>and the other languages of South India whose origins and structure, as
>demonstrated using the "scientific" principles of comparative
>philology, were quite different from Sanskrit and its "Indo-European
>family of tongues" of the North.>> (p.13-14).

  For scholars knowing no Tamil, Sumathi's work will
appear great. Having been brought up in Delhi and going to
English-mediam school, her knowledge of Tamil tradition, ethos
ans passions is rather poor.

  Did Caldwell teach Tamils about the uniqueness of Tamil
and their place in Indian history? Is he the guy who taught
Tamils the Tamil's relationship to (say) Telugu or Malayalam?
She ought to know better: It begins with TolkAppiyar.

Regards,
N. Ganesan



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From prasad_velusamy at HOTMAIL.COM  Mon Aug 30 22:22:58 1999
From: prasad_velusamy at HOTMAIL.COM (Prasad Velusamy)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 15:22:58 -0700
Subject: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
Message-ID: <161227051722.23782.13317897011701444245.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sorry for sending a private message sent to me
to the list.

Sincerely,
Prasad

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From Palaniappa at AOL.COM  Mon Aug 30 20:19:22 1999
From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 16:19:22 -0400
Subject: Rajatarangini references and "vidyAdhara"
Message-ID: <161227051707.23782.16652019129991278509.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

I need help with two issues.

1. Monier-Williams gives the following references from Rajatarangini for
"cAkrika":

 "a companion" Rajat. vi , 272 ; "a companion" , v , 267

I would appreciate if anybody can give the actual text and conventional
explanations for these two occurrences.

2. Does the Sanskrit tradition ever associate vidyAdharas with music-making
(similar to gandharvas)?

Thanks in advance.

Regards
S. Palaniappan




From Palaniappa at AOL.COM  Mon Aug 30 20:39:21 1999
From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 16:39:21 -0400
Subject: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
Message-ID: <161227051709.23782.11754898173148926028.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Note the following quote from Sumathi Ramaswami's "Passions of the Tongue:
Language Devotion in Tamil India, 1891-1970" published by University of
California Press in 1997.

<<The "comparative" study of languages, the genealogical links between
languages of the same "family," the "history" of language, and the "progress"
of language: these provided the agenda for the numerous linguistic studies
carried out in colonial India, "the happy hunting ground of the philologist,"
from the late eighteenth century. Colonial ideologies were driven by the
assumption that "mastery" of India's languages would secure the "mastery" of
India; it would enable British "command" and "native" obedience; and it would
ensure "the vast and noble project of the Europeanization of the Indian
mind." The "grand work" of British rule was thus inevitably accompanied by
the colonization of Indian languages, a project involving "descriptive
appropriation" and "prescriptive imposition and control" (Cohn 1985; Fabian
1986: 76). India's numerous languages were collected, classified,
standardized, enumerated, and thus  dramatically transformed from "fuzzy" and
uncounted entities into neatly bounded, counted, and mapped configurations
(Kaviraj 1992). The result was an arsenal of grammars, manuals, dictionaries,
and glossaries culminating in the grand, multi-volume authoritative
Linguistic Survey of India (1903-28). Caldwell's Grammar - most-cited
English-language narrative in Tamil devotional discourse - belonged to this
arsenal and authorized many of the founding assumptions of Tamil devotion. It
popularized the key term "Dravidian" (based on the Sanskrit word drAviDa,
itself a transmutation of tamiz) as the umbrella category for Tamil and the
other languages of South India whose origins and structure, as demonstrated
using the "scientific" principles of comparative philology, were quite
different from Sanskrit and its "Indo-European family of tongues" of the
North.>> (p.13-14)

As to be expected, Ramaswami's work fails miserably by not giving a
fact-based history of Tamils' attachment to language.

Anti-JNU Rajaram and JNU-trained Sumathi Ramaswamy make strange bedfellows.
However, with her academic position at Penn, Ramaswami's work is far more
harmful to the pursuit of knowledge than Rajaram's.

Regards
S. Pala




From Palaniappa at AOL.COM  Mon Aug 30 20:59:14 1999
From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 16:59:14 -0400
Subject: Correction: Re: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
Message-ID: <161227051711.23782.13436192223232725402.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

Earlier, by mistake, I posted the uncorrected version of the message. The
post had mentioned  the name, Ramaswami. The correct spelling is Ramaswamy.
Also my name was truncated as "S. Pala". I apologize for the errors.

Regards
S. Palaniappan




From chris.eade at ANUGPO.ANU.EDU.AU  Mon Aug 30 12:29:31 1999
From: chris.eade at ANUGPO.ANU.EDU.AU (Chris Eade)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 22:29:31 +1000
Subject: wrong word?
Message-ID: <161227051701.23782.940382752761147816.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Excuse my not using diacritics. I think you will understand me anyway.
        In Epigraphia Carnatica, vol. iv 676, the translation fails to render
        "pushkal - amsa"
and simply leaves the word in italic.
        Now, "-amsa" here is clearly the same word as in tri-amsa or
nav-amsa, the astrological "division" of a rasi (sign of the zodiac) into
threes or into nines. So what is a pushkal - amsa?
        M-W 639a has "pushkala" which means merely "much, many", which
would give us "many-division". But M-W 638c has "pushkara" which has a much
more interesting meaning, one that involves a whole group of nakshatras.
        My question, then, is this: do you think that in reading Kannada
script it would be easy for someone (original author, epigraphist, series
editor) to supplant the interesting word pushkara[-amsa] by the bland word
pushkala[-amsa]?




From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO  Mon Aug 30 21:17:57 1999
From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 23:17:57 +0200
Subject: SV: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
Message-ID: <161227051713.23782.13792806145893820508.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan [SMTP:Palaniappa at AOL.COM] skrev 30. august 1999 22:39:
> Anti-JNU Rajaram and JNU-trained Sumathi Ramaswamy make strange bedfellows.
> However, with her academic position at Penn, Ramaswami's work is far more
> harmful to the pursuit of knowledge than Rajaram's.

I see nothing wrong in Ramaswamy's words. I have not read all of her book, but
what I have read is both fair-minded and inspiring. I am quite unable to see
that her book is harmful to the pursuit of knowledge. I am afraid that the
difference between Ramaswamy and Rajaram is the difference between a
professional, even brilliant scholar and a hack political propagandist. British
knowledge-seeking in India was not uninfluenced by political concerns, as we
all know, and Ramaswamy quite rightly points this out. But the linguistics that
were developed where not as a result of the underlying political motives
automatically unscientific and without academic merit. The same methods were
used in India as elsewhere, and the description of India's languages was as
scientific as the description of other languages in the world during the same
period. Evidently, some things would have been done differently today, but it
would be unfair to judge the pioneers of the nineteenth century by the
standards and theories that apply today. If we remember this, there is no
reason why we shouldn't throw a critical glance at the less palatable aspects
of colonial scholarship. This scholarship cannot be reduced to a mere political
matter, as some of its critics are trying to do, but we cannot do as if the
politics and cultural bias weren't there either.

British knowledge-seeking in India was not necessarily and always driven by
political or missionary motives. Many scholars simply took an interest in the
study of Indian language and culture for purely academic and personal reasons.
This would also apply to non-British scholars. The Germans had their own
nationalist agenda, but still managed to produce a great deal of high-quality
scholarship. Much of the criticism directed at nineteenth century philology by
Rajaram and fellows is in fact misdirected: it really applies to the fledgling
science of physical anthropology, at the middle of the century in the throes of
primitive Darwinism, and early ethnology. One of Rajaram's little tricks is to
set up strawmen to strike them down, usually by dressing up philologists to
look like indophobic anthropologists/ethnologists. He also has other tricks,
but I'll let them rest for now.

Best regards,

Lars Martin Fosse




Dr. art. Lars Martin Fosse
Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114,
0674 Oslo
Norway
Phone/Fax: +47 22 32 12 19
Email: lmfosse at online.no




From kekai at JPS.NET  Tue Aug 31 10:19:44 1999
From: kekai at JPS.NET (Paul Kekai Manansala)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 03:19:44 -0700
Subject: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
Message-ID: <161227051715.23782.16976800262710458224.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote:
>
> As to be expected, Ramaswami's work fails miserably by not giving a
> fact-based history of Tamils' attachment to language.
>
> Anti-JNU Rajaram and JNU-trained Sumathi Ramaswamy make strange bedfellows.
> However, with her academic position at Penn, Ramaswami's work is far more
> harmful to the pursuit of knowledge than Rajaram's.
>

The information you have given does not justify this conclusion. In
terms of Ramaswamy's characterization of early European linguistics
in India, what is not supported?

In regards to Tamil, there is hardly anything quoted related to the
Tamil attachement to language.

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala




From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM  Tue Aug 31 13:04:06 1999
From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 06:04:06 -0700
Subject: Obituary: South Indianists
Message-ID: <161227051731.23782.13869031145179824711.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Four important scholars  have passed away during recent months.
Iravatham Mahadevan, I.A.S told me that their contributions
have not been fully felt yet in the Classical Indian studies.
The last important gathering they all were present was the
First Int. Conference on Skanda-Murukan organized by
the Inst. of Asian Studies, Chennai.

1) N. Sethuraman, Director, Raman and Raman Bus Co., Kumbakonam.
His contribution to dating of Chola and Pandya inscriptions
from the panchAngas is immense. A strong believer in Nadi astrology,
he always believed Nagaswamy was the "peruntaccan" (chief architect)
of tanjore big temple.

2) Francoise L'Hernault. Her book on Subrahmanya iconography
has almost 250 photographs. Can a list member provide a
list of publications by her, please?

3) P. L. Samy I.A.S. was retired and living in Pondichery.
His efforts at culling the science data on fauna and flora
is unique. His study on Goddess worship, Murugan etc.,
from Sangam texts remains largely unknown in the West
because most of his brillinat pieces are in Tamil.

4) S. S. Janaki who worked on many Sanskrit texts produced
in the South and taught many students both in India and from
abroad.

I thought of mentioning their sad demise away from us.

Regards,
N. Ganesan


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cln4 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Tue Aug 31 15:48:27 1999
From: cln4 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Christian)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 08:48:27 -0700
Subject: BORI e-mail
In-Reply-To: <AAxFwotWE4@ST1798.spb.edu>
Message-ID: <161227051733.23782.18329170381148678979.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Try this one.  It never gets returned, but then again I've never gotten a
reply either...


bori at ip.eht.net


Christian


At 01:44 PM 8/31/99 +0400, you wrote:
>Dear List Members!
>Please, help, if anybody knows e-mail of the
>Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute.
>Thank You
>S.Tawaststjerna




From bthorp at PLAINS.NODAK.EDU  Tue Aug 31 14:04:09 1999
From: bthorp at PLAINS.NODAK.EDU (Burt Thorp)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 09:04:09 -0500
Subject: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
In-Reply-To: <6b90ce37.24fc45f9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <161227051735.23782.16650057428634547743.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Your example is a good one of "Post Colonialism"--the current faddish and
hot position to take in academia if one wants to be considered as and
admired as a radical thinker.  Solid historical work, sadly, is considered
old-fashioned and dull.




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Tue Aug 31 10:17:31 1999
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 11:17:31 +0100
Subject: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
In-Reply-To: <6b90ce37.24fc45f9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <161227051729.23782.7516270698835100543.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote:

> Note the following quote from Sumathi Ramaswami's "Passions of the Tongue:
> Language Devotion in Tamil India, 1891-1970" published by University of
> California Press in 1997.


I haven't read Ramaswami's book, so what I say may be mistaken, but what
surprises me from the quotation offered is the narrow focus on political
and hegemonic power relations and the exclusion of any mention of
missionary zeal.  Surely Caldwell ("Bishop Caldwell") and most other early
language-workers were motivated not primarily by the desire to rule, but
by the desire to bring their vision of Christian Truth to the population
of India.  This is also clearly a deeply problematic programme, but surely
a much more interesting and one.

--
Dominik Wujastyk
Founder, INDOLOGY list




From abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN  Tue Aug 31 11:24:25 1999
From: abhinav at DEL3.VSNL.NET.IN (Bharat Gupt)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 11:24:25 +0000
Subject: "Masculine Pakistan, Feminine India"
Message-ID: <161227051724.23782.3075322384382839545.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Shrinivas Tilak wrote:
>
>    In a recent post he sent to Edwin Bryant (and forwarded by EB to Indology
> list) Jan Brzezinski asked,"Did the conquering Muslims ever overtly accuse
> Hindus of being effeminate?" The following excerpt entitled "Masculine
> Pakistan, Feminine India" is cited by Shahnaz Rouse in her chapter "The
> Oursider(s) Within" in Appropriating Gender: Women's Activism and
> Politicized Religion in South Asia," edited by Patricia jeffrey and Amrota
> Basu (pp65-66). I thought it might be relevant to Jan's query. The excerpt
> comes from a 1994 article by Rubina Saigol in the context of her discussion
> of government sponsored school texts in Pakistan.
>
>    "The period before the advent of Islam [in India] is always a "feminine"
> period. It represents unbridled desire, darkness, mystery, strangeness and
> uncontrolled moral laxity. After Islam conquers and subjugates the sensuous
> pre-oedipal/pre-Islamic society, it brings the Law of the Father and the
> society enters its moral and cleansed oedipal phase...The masculine finally
> defeats the feminine and establishes its law. Conquest here is equivalent to
> purification through insemination."
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

A Comment:
In this whole construction of "hindu feminity", it is important to note as to how much
of it was a part of the minds of the conquering aristocracy of the Turks, Khaljis,
Lodi's and Mongols, Taimurites, Mughals and finally the BRITISH. Through my readings of
the medieval histories (in translations in English, hindi and urdu) right from the
virtually earliest like the Tabkaate-Nasiri which begins with the reign of Delhi
Sultanate (12th century) to those written in Auragzeb's time, the theme of hindu
"femininity" and sexual decadence is NOT much notable.  The great hindu/brahmin hater
like Barni (14th cent.) emphasises Kufra or disbelief in Islam as the justification for
eliminating hindus and brahmins.

Effiminate hindus are a construct of colonial writers. Even vegetarianism of hindus was
imputed to have made them weak in the face of invaders. If scholars of medievals history
could shed more light on this , we will be better informed.

By the way, all muslim medieval rulers patronised hindu music and dance with immense
fervour and their Sunni critics ridiculed them for being irreligious not effeminate.

The bias against fine arts and music and "softness" has neither an arabic or an islamic
origin. As recorded historically, it is Christian that started with the Chruch killing
Greek theatre and other performative arts that were based on arousal and ecstasy.
For the Christians god never causes enthusiasmos, not devil does so.
Hence the colonial rewriting of Indian history.
Bharat Gupt
Associate Prof, DelhiUniv.




From smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM  Tue Aug 31 19:08:04 1999
From: smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM (Swaminathan Madhuresan)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 12:08:04 -0700
Subject: Book Review: An Update on AIT (Part 1)
Message-ID: <161227051745.23782.10144862452345572356.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

--- Dr. D. Wujastyk <ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK> wrote:

> I haven't read Ramaswami's book, so what I say may be mistaken, but what
> surprises me from the quotation offered is the narrow focus on political
> and hegemonic power relations and the exclusion of any mention of
> missionary zeal.  Surely Caldwell ("Bishop Caldwell") and most other early
> language-workers were motivated not primarily by the desire to rule, but
> by the desire to bring their vision of Christian Truth to the population
> of India.  This is also clearly a deeply problematic programme, but surely
> a much more interesting and one.

  For a scholarly treatment of Caldwell's missionary motives and work,
 pl. see Ravindran Vaitheesparan's PhD thesis, U. Toronto (1998).
Ravi is a lecturer in History there and has published some papers in
South Indian Studies, U. Madras, Editor: M. S. S. Pandian.

Here is one, not a very scholarly assessment on Caldwell:
"the view that the South Indian languages have an origin different
from that of the North Indian languages is based on irresponsible,
ignorant and motivated utterances of a missionary".
N. R. Waradpande, "Facts and fiction about the Aryans"
in S. B. Deo & S. Kamath, The Aryan problem, Pune, 1993, p. 14-15.

Wardpande's view on IE family from the same:
"the linguists have not been able to establish that the similarities
in the Aryan or Indo-European languages are genetic, i.e., due to
their having a common ancestry".

In his recent review, Rajaram refers to this book (Deo/Kamath).

Regards,
SM




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com




From harryspier at HOTMAIL.COM  Tue Aug 31 17:33:34 1999
From: harryspier at HOTMAIL.COM (Harry Spier)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 13:33:34 -0400
Subject: Mistakes in carrying out Vedic sacrifices
Message-ID: <161227051742.23782.15148620865937356070.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Toke Lindegaard Knudsen wrote:
>I am curious about other stories from the Vedas or puranas
>concerning sacrifices that "went wrong" - particularly if the fault
>was due to a mistake in the construction of the altar (wrong
>dimensions, wrong area, etc.) or in the orientation of the altar.
>>If anyone knows of references to such stories I would be happy to
>hear.
>

I have come across a rendering of a wonderful story attributed to the
Shrimad Devi Bhagavatam about a yajna held by Devadatta and his wife Rohini
for a son and presided over by the Brahmin priest Govila.  It is a story
about a sacrifice that "goes wrong" (not due to dimensions etc. but for
other reasons).  I don't have access to a Devi Bhagavatam ( and have only
seen the rendering)but perhaps someone on this list can give you the
reference for the original story.  If this is of interest to you and you
can't get the original story I can fax the rendering to you.

Harry Spier

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From tawast at ST1798.SPB.EDU  Tue Aug 31 09:44:27 1999
From: tawast at ST1798.SPB.EDU (Sergey S.Tawaststjerna)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 13:44:27 +0400
Subject: BORI e-mail
Message-ID: <161227051726.23782.9613284308049920716.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List Members!
Please, help, if anybody knows e-mail of the
Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute.
Thank You
S.Tawaststjerna




From kamal at LINK.LANIC.UTEXAS.EDU  Tue Aug 31 21:14:34 1999
From: kamal at LINK.LANIC.UTEXAS.EDU (Kamal Adhikary)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 16:14:34 -0500
Subject: New Position in Classical India
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.10.9908311710150.233-100000@c0459.wellcome.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <161227051747.23782.8655543135608057861.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

                      POSITION IN CLASSICAL INDIA


The Department of Asian Studies at The University of Texas at Austin is
recruiting for a tenure track position, rank open, in its South Asia
program. The candidate needs to have a Ph.D. in hand by the time of
appointment.  We are looking for a scholar focusing on the classical
period of India (ancient/medieval) in the Brahmanical/Hindu, Buddhist, or
Jain tradition.  The candidate needs to have demonstrated teaching and
research ability or potential with a high level of proficiency in
Sanskrit and a commitment  to excellence in the classroom as well as to
ongoing research. The successful applicant will complement existing
department strengths in South Asian  literature, history, religion,
anthropology, art history, music, and political science. Teaching duties
include Sanskrit, Indian religious and cultural  history, and specialized
undergraduate and graduate course in the areas of the candidate's specialty.

Please send a letter of interest, current CV, three letters of reference,
recent papers/publications, and relevant syllabi drafts to:


                         South Asia Search Committee

                         Department of Asian Studies, WCH 4.134

                         The University of Texas at Austin

                           Austin, Texas 7871201194


        The closing date for applications is November 22, 1999. An AA/EEO
                                   employer.


The above ad is also posted at:
http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/positioninclindia.html

_______________
Kamal R. Adhikary, Ph.D.
Asian Studies,UT, Austin
Email:kamal at asnic.utexas.edu




From fo8z003 at PUBLIC.UNI-HAMBURG.DE  Tue Aug 31 15:45:15 1999
From: fo8z003 at PUBLIC.UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 16:45:15 +0100
Subject: Year of publication of a Gode article
Message-ID: <161227051749.23782.18060248201407367098.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In order to complete a paper for publication, I need to know the year of
the original publication of the following article by P.K. Gode: "Bernier
and Kaviindraacaarya Sarasvatii at the Mughal Court." This article is
reprinted in (the collection of Gode's articles) Studies in Indian Literary
History, vol. II, pp. 364-379. Bombay: Singhi Jain Shastra Sikshapith,
Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan. 1954. Sighi Jain Series 38. Even the detail that it
was originally published in the Annals of S.V. Oriental Institute,
Tirupati, 1.4:1-16 is given. However, the year in which this vol 1 was
published has not been given. As I do not have access to the journal, I
would be grateful if someone could convey to me the missing detail. Thanks.
-- ashok aklujkar




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Tue Aug 31 16:10:38 1999
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 17:10:38 +0100
Subject: LC catalogue
Message-ID: <161227051738.23782.12720314149825086344.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The new Library of Congress catalogue became available on the Web today.

        http://catalog.loc.gov

DW




From fo8z003 at PUBLIC.UNI-HAMBURG.DE  Tue Aug 31 16:32:15 1999
From: fo8z003 at PUBLIC.UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 17:32:15 +0100
Subject: Place and year of a remark by Kielhorn
Message-ID: <161227051752.23782.3925580675056054850.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In the introduction to his edn and tr of Naage;sa's or Naagoji-bha.t.ta's
Paribhaa.sendu-;sekhara, Lorenz Franz Kielhorn made the following
(important) remark according to the second edn (by K.V. Abhyankar) of the
same work, in which the remark is reproduced: "It is sad to see the number
of great ;saastriis, distinguished no less for their humility and modesty
than for their learning and intelligence, diminish year after year, and to
feel that with them there is dying away more and more of that traditional
learning which we can so ill dispense with in the interpretation of the
enigmatic works of Hindu antiquity, but it appears to me all the more to be
the duty of both Native and European Sanskrit scholars to save as much as
can still be saved, and to fix in writing what in less than half a century
will otherwise be irreparably lost."

I have been able to gather the following details about what Abhyankar calls
K's first edn (I drop the diacritics): (a) The Paribhasendu-sekhara of
Nagoji-bhatta. Part I: the Sanskrit Text and Various Readings. Bombay: The
Indu Prakash Press. Bombay Sanskrit Series 2.  1868.  (b) The
Paribhasendu-sekhara of Nagoji-bhatta, edited and explained by F.
Kielhorn.Part II: Translation and Notes. Bombay: The Indu Prakash Press (7,
9) / Government Central Book Depot (12). Bombay Sanskrit Series 7, 9, 12.
1871-1874.

This means that while only one year is associated with part I of K's edn,
part II took 3-4 years to appear (it was quite common in those days to
publish Skt texts in fasciculi). Did K make the remark quoted above in 1871
when the first fascicule of part II appeared (one would expect the
introduction to be at the beginning) or did he make it in an introduction
that appeared only in the last fascicule of part II? Could anyone with
access to K's original edn clarify the situation for me and also specify
the pages on which that remark appears? Thanks. -- ashok aklujkar




From jehms at KABELFOON.NL  Tue Aug 31 17:12:01 1999
From: jehms at KABELFOON.NL (Erik Hoogcarspel)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 99 19:12:01 +0200
Subject: "Masculine Pakistan, Feminine India"
In-Reply-To: <19990830221104.28072.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227051740.23782.3783011928125594034.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hallo Shrinivas

Op dinsdag, 31-aug-99 schreef Shrinivas Tilak:

ST|   In a recent post he sent to Edwin Bryant (and forwarded by EB to Indology
ST| list) Jan Brzezinski asked,"Did the conquering Muslims ever overtly accuse
ST| Hindus of being effeminate?" The following excerpt entitled "Masculine
ST| Pakistan, Feminine India" is cited by Shahnaz Rouse in her chapter "The
ST| Oursider(s) Within" in Appropriating Gender: Women's Activism and
ST| Politicized Religion in South Asia," edited by Patricia jeffrey and Amrota
ST| Basu (pp65-66). I thought it might be relevant to Jan's query. The excerpt
ST| comes from a 1994 article by Rubina Saigol in the context of her discussion
ST| of government sponsored school texts in Pakistan.

ST|   "The period before the advent of Islam [in India] is always a "feminine"
ST| period. It represents unbridled desire, darkness, mystery, strangeness and
ST| uncontrolled moral laxity. After Islam conquers and subjugates the sensuous
ST| pre-oedipal/pre-Islamic society, it brings the Law of the Father and the
ST| society enters its moral and cleansed oedipal phase...The masculine finally
ST| defeats the feminine and establishes its law. Conquest here is equivalent to
ST| purification through insemination."

This is a nasty piece of Freudian gossip. If there would be any truth in it the ideal of
virility would be an ayatolla with prostate problems. Please do quote only texts
with scientific value.

regards
--
erik


 *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
  Erik Hoogcarspel           <    jehms at kabelfoon.nl    ><       Boerhaaveln 99b     >
                             <    tl+31.(0)104157097    ><       3112 LE Schiedam    >
                             <    fx+31.(0)842113137    ><       Holland             >
 *===================================================================================*




From fo8z003 at PUBLIC.UNI-HAMBURG.DE  Tue Aug 31 23:31:37 1999
From: fo8z003 at PUBLIC.UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 99 00:31:37 +0100
Subject: My recent publications
In-Reply-To: <v03020902b3855e866ce5@[128.32.100.10]>
Message-ID: <161227051754.23782.7091912940593032676.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

(Please use <aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca> as my e-mail address as of 1 Sep 99.)

In the tradition of sharing news about each other's research, I submit the
following. Those who are NOT interested in study areas such as Vedaanta,
Saa.mkhya, Sanskrit grammar, grammatical theory, dramaturgy and teaching of
Sanskrit as a language need not read the following details.

In 1998-99, the following of my writings have appeared in print (volume
titles have been given without diacritical marks, so that they would
conform with what you are likely to find in library listings):

Monographs:

1999. _The Theory of Nipatas (Particles) in Yaska's Nirukta_. Pune:
Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute. Post-graduate and Research
Department Series No. 42. Pandit Shripad Shastri Deodhar Memorial Lectures,
sixt series. Pp. xii + 107. I did not have control over the quality of
paper used. Please read for content and convey corrections, if any, to me.

(1998. Reprint _Sanskrit: an Easy Introduction to an Enchanting Language_.
Svadhyaya Publications, 5346 Opal Place, Richmond, B.C., Canada V7C 5V4.)


Articles:
1997. "A response to Dr. Peter Scharf." Studien zur Indologie und Iranistik
21:1-4. Actual appearance in 1998.

1998. "Bhart.r-hari." In A companion to the Philosophers, pp. 561-565. Ed.
Robert L. Arrington. Malden, MA and Oxford: Blackwell.
.
1998. ".Sa.da:nga-naa.tya." Samskrita Ranga Annual X (1991-97), Dr. S.S.
Janaki Felicitation Volume, pp. 24-37. Chennai: The Samskrita Ranga. Actual
appearance in 1999.

1998. "Vaacaspati-mi;sra's Tattva-samiik.saa  and the last two verses in
Yukti-diipikaa manuscripts." Adyar Library Bulletin 62:125-165. Actual
appearance in 1999. An addition to note 44 in this is given at the end of
this message.

Reviews:

1998. Of _Metarules of Paninian Grammar: Vyadi's Paribhasa-vrtti_ by
Dominik Wujastyk. Vols 2. Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African
Studies, pp. 353-355.

1998. Of _From Early Vedanta to Kashmir Shaivism: Gaudapada, Bhartrhari,
and Abhinavagupta_ by Natalia Isayeva. Journal of the American Oriental
Society 118.4:550-551.


Addition to note 44 of the article  "Vaacaspati-mi;sra's Tattva-samiik.saa
and ...:

Subsequent to the publication of the article, I happened to read Dinesh
Chandra Bhattacharya's 1946 article "More light on Sanskrit literature of
Bengal (Hindu period)," published in the Indian Historical quarterly
22:127-151. On pp. 143-150 of this important article, Bhattacharya makes a
good case to the effect that ;Srii-har.sa, the author of the
Kha.n.dana-kha.n.da-khaadya and the Nai.sadha-carita, among other works,
should be thought of as originally hailing from Bengal but spending a
significant part of his life in Kashi-Varanasi. The epithet gau.dena
employed by Vaacaspati-mi;sra-II, then, need not become applicable to
;Srii-har.sa through the 'Pa;nca-gau.d' concept as I have supposed. The
extraordinary scholar-poet can be viewed as a Gau.da in the sense 'one
belonging to the Gau.da country.' Secondly, without giving any of the
information or reasons I have given, Bhattacharya emends the faulty reading
utana gau.dena of the Kha.n.danoddhaara ms to uttaana-gau.dena and takes it
(as I have taken) as applying to Vaacaspati-mi;sra-II's philosophical
opponent, namely ;Srii-har.sa, as an expression of contempt. Although
Bhattacharya's construal is thus acceptable to me, I find his emendation
and the sense he attaches to it ('supine Gau.da') problematic. It is
transcriptionally probable that utana could be a corruption of uttaana.
However, I consider it improbable that Vaacaspati-mi;sra-II would refer to
his adversary as 'one lying on his back' in the subject part of his
sentence. Until another ms containing the the full text of the third
quarter of the verse is discovered, we would be better off in entertaining
emendations such as hatena, mattena or d.rptena as contextually more
appropriate.




From Periannan.Chandrasekaran at DELTA-AIR.COM  Thu Aug 26 21:49:16 1999
From: Periannan.Chandrasekaran at DELTA-AIR.COM (Chandrasekaran, Periannan)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 99 17:49:16 -0400
Subject: Skt cognates for Tamil word for "horse"
Message-ID: <161227051667.23782.13283688764873465053.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Could someone kindly provide the Skt. cognates for the following Tamil words
for "horse" and comment if the words listed under other columns are correct
too?

Tamil         Greek                 Latin                      Skt
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ivuLi         ile, hippos                                      ?
puravi        polia                 ferrus, burricus        pelin(?)
kutirai       kottos                                       kuruTin(?)


Regards
Chandra