From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Sep 1 13:34:03 1998 From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 98 06:34:03 -0700 Subject: epic marriage Message-ID: <161227041250.23782.1845461831862674403.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> * But vasudeva, the subhadra's father was the brother of kuntI, the *arjuna's mother, and hence the wife and husband were very close relatives. * Is such a marriage (between first crossed cousins) a legal one? * If not, the fact that zUra (biological father of subhadrA and *kRSNa) gave his just born daughter to kuntibhoja, son of his paternal aunt, *making him the legal father of kuntI, could make the marriage to be legal *(between third cousins)? * I summarize: *(biological) *zUra > kuntI > arjuna *zUra > vasudeva > subhadrA *(official) *X > a woman > kuntibhoja > kuntI > arjuna *X > citraratha > zUra > vasudeva > subhadrA The official marriage is very legal in the "Dravidian kinship" system. For a full analysis of this marriage pattern and earlier study by Henry Morgan, et al., (I have read that Iroquois Indians, australian tribes, .. also follow this) pl. see: Thomas Trautmann, Dravidian kinship, Univ. Michigan press Regards, N. Ganesan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From thillaud at UNICE.FR Tue Sep 1 04:43:59 1998 From: thillaud at UNICE.FR (Dominique.Thillaud) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 98 06:43:59 +0200 Subject: epic marriage Message-ID: <161227041244.23782.1027538908362688098.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, I have a request about a marriage in the MBh, between arjuna and subhadrA, the kRSNa's sister. A very important one: by it the continuity of the lineage will be assured with abhimanyu. But vasudeva, the subhadra's father was the brother of kuntI, the arjuna's mother, and hence the wife and husband were very close relatives. Is such a marriage (between first crossed cousins) a legal one? If not, the fact that zUra (biological father of subhadrA and kRSNa) gave his just born daughter to kuntibhoja, son of his paternal aunt, making him the legal father of kuntI, could make the marriage to be legal (between third cousins)? I summarize: (biological) zUra > kuntI > arjuna zUra > vasudeva > subhadrA (official) X > a woman > kuntibhoja > kuntI > arjuna X > citraratha > zUra > vasudeva > subhadrA Thanks in advance, Dominique Dominique THILLAUD Universite' de Nice Sophia-Antipolis, France From mahadevasiva at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Sep 1 14:37:07 1998 From: mahadevasiva at HOTMAIL.COM (S Krishna) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 98 07:37:07 -0700 Subject: epic marriage Message-ID: <161227041254.23782.17688061072483359578.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In reply to Dominique Thillaud's question about the legality of the wedding between Arjuna and Subhadra, Georg Von simson says: You may be right that the introduction of Kuntibhoja in >the story was meant to make the case more acceptable. But, as you point >out, arjuna and subhadrA were still third cousins, and their marriage, as >far as I can see, not acceptable according to dharmazAstra. My "prazna" on this: Since Subhadra was "kidnapped" for the wedding by Arjuna, do the DharmazAstra rules apply strictly? As my understanding goes, the bride was always blameless in case of a "forced" marriage and the rules governing "forced" marriages were different from that of arranged marriages; so can the conventional rules be invoked for a special case like this? Regards, Krishna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Sep 1 18:58:04 1998 From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 98 11:58:04 -0700 Subject: epic marriage Message-ID: <161227041261.23782.1461401223729834357.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> K. A. Nilakanta Sastri, Cultural contacts between Aryans and Dravidians. Bombay, 1967 p. 81 reads "The book I have in mind is S. V. Karandikar's Hindu exogamy (1929). The author has argued that gotra or sept exogamy was unknown to Indo-Europeans, and even to Indo-Iranians. ... Greek, Roman and Persian customs have no parallel to gotra exogamy. Karandikar suspects the influence of non-brahman (pre-Aryan ?) totemic exogamy in the growing rigidity of sept exogamy ... The far-reaching scheme of Vedic pedigrees is the result of fusion and standardization worked out by jurists (like varNa samkara theory) having little in common with the simple social units from which the gotras were originally derived. Dravidians stoutly resisted the expansion of prohibited degrees and refused to tamper with cross-cousin marriages. Not so in North India where a puritanizing zeal has in some socially ambitious castes outdone the Brahmins... But his main conclusion is correct that gotra exogamy is modelled on indigenous prototypes while sapiNDa exgogamy is not. .." Regards, N. Ganesan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE Tue Sep 1 12:03:32 1998 From: steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Roland Steiner) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 98 14:03:32 +0200 Subject: ciciir.su.h and dudru.su.h In-Reply-To: <199808301823.OAA05860@math.mps.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <161227041246.23782.11387282175787869118.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have checked the critical edition of the Padmaprabh.rtakam by J. R. A. Loman ("The Padmapraabh.rtakam. An Ancient Bhaa.na Assigned to ;Suudraka." [Ph.D. thesis by] J. R. A. Loman. Amsterdam 1956) who used the following four manuscripts: A: Governmental Oriental MSS Library of Madras; modern paper, Devanaagarii. B: Governmental Oriental MSS Library of Madras; modern paper, Devanaagarii. C: Palace Library of Trivandrum; palm-leaf, Malayaalam. D: Travancore MSS library of Trivandrum; palm-leaf, Malayaalam. Loman says in his introduction that he was not able to trace the genealogy of the MSS-material and to consider the history of the text. The text of the edition runs as follows (16.29-30; pp. 29-30): ki.m bravii.si / kva sa.mciciir.su.h / ti.s.tha taavat / kim asi dudruu.sur iti / Variants: bravii.si om. B. - kva sa.mciciir.su.h D corrupt - dudruu.sur : dudru.su.h A. Accordingly, dudru.su.h indeed seems to be just a mistake for the correct dudruu.su.h. The form sa.mciciir.su.h, however, seems to be definitely wrong (Loman?s Malayaalam-MS D is corrupt here), also according to ;Sarvavarman?s Kaatantra. The "obvious" emendation -cikiir.su.h does not fit the context in which I would expect a somewhat 'pretentious' rather than a wrong form. Therefore, I would suggest reading sa.mcicari.su.h instead of sa.mciciir.su.h. (perhaps a scribal error because of a wrong association with the well known form-cikiir.su.h). -- Dr. Roland Steiner Fachgebiet Indologie, FB 11 der Philipps-Universitaet Wilhelm-Roepke-Strasse 6 D-35032 Marburg (Briefanschrift / for letters) D-35039 Marburg (Paketanschrift / for parcels) Germany Tel.: +49-6421-282184; Fax: +49-6421-284995 email: steiner at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE From g.v.simson at EAST.UIO.NO Tue Sep 1 14:07:03 1998 From: g.v.simson at EAST.UIO.NO (Georg von Simson) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 98 16:07:03 +0200 Subject: epic marriage In-Reply-To: <19980901133404.21385.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <161227041252.23782.7027940556494552213.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >* But vasudeva, the subhadra's father was the brother of kuntI, >the >*arjuna's mother, and hence the wife and husband were very close >relatives. >* Is such a marriage (between first crossed cousins) a legal one? >* If not, the fact that zUra (biological father of subhadrA and >*kRSNa) gave his just born daughter to kuntibhoja, son of his paternal >aunt, >*making him the legal father of kuntI, could make the marriage to be >legal >*(between third cousins)? > >* I summarize: >*(biological) >*zUra > kuntI > arjuna >*zUra > vasudeva > subhadrA >*(official) >*X > a woman > kuntibhoja > kuntI > arjuna >*X > citraratha > zUra > vasudeva > subhadrA > > The official marriage is very legal in the "Dravidian >kinship" system. >For a full analysis of this marriage pattern and >earlier study by Henry Morgan, et al., (I have read >that Iroquois Indians, australian tribes, .. also follow this) >pl. see: >Thomas Trautmann, Dravidian kinship, Univ. Michigan press > >Regards, >N. Ganesan > The cross cousin marriage system may have been rather popular in ancient India (particularlly within the nobility?) before (and even after?) dharmazAstra authors tried to prohibit it by their sapiNDA, gotra and pravara restrictions. There are several examples in the family of the Buddha and the geneology of the first kings of Ceylon according to the MahAvaMsa, cf. A. M. Hocart, "Buddha and Devadatta", Indian Antiquary 52 (1923), p. 267-72. You may be right that the introduction of Kuntibhoja in the story was meant to make the case more acceptable. But, as you point out, arjuna and subhadrA were still third cousins, and their marriage, as far as I can see, not acceptable according to dharmazAstra. For the details of the limiting rules see Kane, Hist. of DharmazAstra, Vol. II, Pt. I, p. 452 ff. Regards, Georg v. Simson From g.v.simson at EAST.UIO.NO Tue Sep 1 15:30:13 1998 From: g.v.simson at EAST.UIO.NO (Georg von Simson) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 98 17:30:13 +0200 Subject: epic marriage In-Reply-To: <19980901143707.29701.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <161227041256.23782.12193945975238737726.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> S. Krishna asks: > > My "prazna" on this: Since Subhadra was "kidnapped" for the wedding >by Arjuna, do the DharmazAstra rules apply strictly? As my understanding >goes, the bride was always blameless in case of a "forced" marriage and >the rules governing "forced" marriages were different from that of >arranged marriages; so can the conventional rules be invoked for a >special case like this? I cannot see why kidnapping should have effect on the sapiNDA etc. rules. By the way, the case of arjuna and subhadrA seems to be a blending of gandharva (mutual love) and rAkSasa (abduction and use of force). According to Manu III. 26, this should be legal for a kSatriya; see Kane, Hist. of Dh. II.I. p. 522, where the case of arjuna and subhadrA is discussed. In my last message I should, of course, have referred to Kane, op. cit., p. 458 ff., where the problem of cross-cousin marriage is discussed in detail (the arjuna-subhadrA case is mentioned on p. 459 f.). p. 459: "... it is clear that a marriage with one's maternal uncle's daughter or paternal aunt's daughter was in vogue in the south (below the NarmadA probably) long before the Baudh.Dh.S. (i.e. several centuries before the Christian era) and that North India did not go in for such marriages abd that orthodox sUtra writers like Gautama and BaudhAyana reprobated such practices." But since the story of arjuna and subhadrA is not connected with the south, one may infer that the practice probably has been common in North India as well. Regards, Georg v. Simson From narayana at HD1.VSNL.NET.IN Tue Sep 1 16:41:09 1998 From: narayana at HD1.VSNL.NET.IN (DEVARAKONDA VENKATA NARAYANA SARMA) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 98 21:41:09 +0500 Subject: epic marriage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041258.23782.9362344112988412541.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 06:43 AM 9/1/98 +0200, you wrote: >Dear Indologists, > I have a request about a marriage in the MBh, between arjuna and >subhadrA, the kRSNa's sister. A very important one: by it the continuity of >the lineage will be assured with abhimanyu. > But vasudeva, the subhadra's father was the brother of kuntI, the >arjuna's mother, and hence the wife and husband were very close relatives. > Is such a marriage (between first crossed cousins) a legal one? > If not, the fact that zUra (biological father of subhadrA and >kRSNa) gave his just born daughter to kuntibhoja, son of his paternal aunt, >making him the legal father of kuntI, could make the marriage to be legal >(between third cousins)? > > I summarize: >(biological) >zUra > kuntI > arjuna >zUra > vasudeva > subhadrA >(official) >X > a woman > kuntibhoja > kuntI > arjuna >X > citraratha > zUra > vasudeva > subhadrA > Thanks in advance, >Dominique > >Dominique THILLAUD >Universite' de Nice Sophia-Antipolis, France > > Men marrying daughters of paternal aunts or maternal uncles are not only very common in South India but are preffered (atleast till recently). They are slightly on the decline now because of the spread of the knowledge of the bad effects of inbreading. regards, sarma. From grotebev at UNI-KOELN.DE Thu Sep 3 03:33:22 1998 From: grotebev at UNI-KOELN.DE (Tobias Ghosh-Beverborg) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 98 05:33:22 +0200 Subject: Punjab Hut Message-ID: <161227041263.23782.11907791296989979506.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List-members, perhaps some of you could help? Please, send copies of your reply to me, too. Dr. Andrews is a faculty member in the Department of Cultural Anthropology at the University of Cologne, Germany. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Peter-Alford Andrews Dear Tobias I have a question you may be able to answer through your Indian connections. There is a particular type of hut which is shown frequently in miniatures, especially those from the Punjab Hills. It is round in plan, domed and has an arched doorway. In general it is somewhat egg-shaped. It often has a top-knot at the apex, apparently where the reeds which make up its walls are tied together, and often has binding lines running around the periphery horizontally, one above the other up to the top. I would like to know a. whether the type still exists, and if so where, b. if it has a standard name, c. whether it has an internal framework or not. The earliest representations are in the Gandhara sculptures from the general direction of Swat, and there are also connections with Central Asia, which is why it interests me. From a.korn at EM.UNI-FRANKFURT.DE Thu Sep 3 10:50:01 1998 From: a.korn at EM.UNI-FRANKFURT.DE (agnes korn) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 98 12:50:01 +0200 Subject: titus Message-ID: <161227041266.23782.1217065889716730220.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> TITUS, the Frankfurt-based server of material related to Indo-European studies, has been refashioned and updated (new adresses, courses, studies programs, research projects...): http://titus.uni-frankfurt.de From yanom at KSUVX0.KYOTO-SU.AC.JP Thu Sep 3 09:10:24 1998 From: yanom at KSUVX0.KYOTO-SU.AC.JP (Michio Yano) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 98 18:10:24 +0900 Subject: e-text of KAmasUtra Message-ID: <161227041265.23782.3613296353693295738.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, I have uploaded the e-text of the KAmasUtra (kamasutra.txt), digitalized by my former student Mrs. Mizue Sugita, at my ftp directory: ccftp.kyoto-su.ac.jp/pub/doc/sanskrit You can get access to it via my homepage: http://www.kyoto-su.ac.jp/~yanom Michio Yano Kyoto Sangyo University yanom at cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp (for private messages) yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp From apandey at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Fri Sep 4 19:52:57 1998 From: apandey at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Anshuman Pandey) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 98 12:52:57 -0700 Subject: [Announce] Bengali for TeX. Message-ID: <161227041273.23782.12575902853974829242.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The new "Bengali for TeX" package is now available from the Comprehensive Tex Archive Network (CTAN). CTAN addresses are: ftp.tex.ac.uk ftp.dante.de The files reside in directory language/bengali/pandey/ Regards, Anshuman Pandey From mpt at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Fri Sep 4 20:41:20 1998 From: mpt at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (M. Tandy) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 98 13:41:20 -0700 Subject: [Announce] Bengali for TeX. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041276.23782.5373179335661396053.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks. On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Anshuman Pandey wrote: > The new "Bengali for TeX" package is now available from the Comprehensive > Tex Archive Network (CTAN). CTAN addresses are: > > ftp.tex.ac.uk > ftp.dante.de > > The files reside in directory language/bengali/pandey/ > > Regards, > Anshuman Pandey > From khofmann at ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE Fri Sep 4 20:13:51 1998 From: khofmann at ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE (Katja Hofmann) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 98 22:13:51 +0200 Subject: Radcliffe, Carol`s adress Message-ID: <161227041275.23782.1233520731773030822.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear listmembers, does anyone know the current adress (or e-mail-adress)of Dr. Carol Elizabeth Radcliffe (Bolon-Radcliffe)? Sincerely yours K. Hofmann khofmann at zedat.fu-berlin.de From narayana at HD1.VSNL.NET.IN Sat Sep 5 04:20:43 1998 From: narayana at HD1.VSNL.NET.IN (DEVARAKONDA VENKATA NARAYANA SARMA) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 98 09:20:43 +0500 Subject: Buddhist Circuit Train Service Message-ID: <161227041278.23782.1539062049100234602.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The following news item that appeared in "THE HINDU" today may be of interest to some indologists. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The railways will start a "Bauddh Parikrama" service from October 2 for pilgrims to the Buddhist circuit. The railway minister, Mr. Nitish Kumar told reporters here that the one-week package tour on this train will cover Raigir,Nalanda,Kushinagar, Saranath, and Bodhgaya. Accomodation, food and any road travel will be taken care of by the railways. The starting point will be either Howrah or Delhi. A final decision is yet to be taken. The launch will coincide with the World Buddhist Conference to be held in Uttara Pradesh next month. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- regards, sarma. From aklujkar at UNIXG.UBC.CA Sun Sep 6 15:30:52 1998 From: aklujkar at UNIXG.UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 98 08:30:52 -0700 Subject: E-mail address change Message-ID: <161227041280.23782.13647641510368087229.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To those who correspond with me: Please note that, for most of the time between 7 Sep 1998 and 31 Aug 1999, my e-mail address will be fo8z003 at public.uni-hamburg.de From jonathan.silk at YALE.EDU Sun Sep 6 17:21:48 1998 From: jonathan.silk at YALE.EDU (jonathan silk) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 98 12:21:48 -0500 Subject: avajja Message-ID: <161227041282.23782.8894989684525302982.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The AMg dictionary says that at Pra"snavyaakara.nasuutra 2.4 (Bombay Agamodaya-samiti, 1919) appears the word avajja = Skt. avadya. I am interested in this because the normal MIA equivalent seems to be vajja. Seth's Pkt. dictionary cites Suuyaga.da.mgasutta II.2.65 as containing the word avajja, but actually in the Jaina Agama Series para 713 = p. 280.14 the reading is vajjabahuula. Does the word avajja actually occur in AMg? Thanks for any help from someone who may have access to the edition Jonathan SILK jonathan.silk at yale.edu From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Sep 7 11:33:53 1998 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 98 07:33:53 -0400 Subject: avajja In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041285.23782.11212287816013317166.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The first volume of the Abhidhaanaraajendra cites the words avajja, avajjakara, and avajjabhiiru with citations and references. Madhav Deshpande On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, jonathan silk wrote: > The AMg dictionary says that at Pra"snavyaakara.nasuutra 2.4 (Bombay > Agamodaya-samiti, 1919) appears the word avajja = Skt. avadya. I am > interested in this because the normal MIA equivalent seems to be vajja. > Seth's Pkt. dictionary cites Suuyaga.da.mgasutta II.2.65 as containing the > word avajja, but actually in the Jaina Agama Series para 713 = p. 280.14 > the reading is vajjabahuula. Does the word avajja actually occur in AMg? > > Thanks for any help from someone who may have access to the edition > > Jonathan SILK > > jonathan.silk at yale.edu > From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Sep 7 12:55:54 1998 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 98 08:55:54 -0400 Subject: avajja In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041287.23782.11345123458100265650.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> One may also note the special treatment of avadya according to Panini 3.1.101 (avadyapaNyavaryA garhyapaNitavyAnirodheSu). Only in the sense of garhya can one have the form avadya, while in other contexts, the form will be anudya. This means that according to Panini the form avadya was not a normal negative of -vadya, but a formation to be understood on its own, a nipAtana (see the KAzikAvRtti on this rule). In Sanskrit usage too one generally finds the contrast between anavadya and avadya, rather than between avadya and vadya. Madhav Deshpande On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > The first volume of the Abhidhaanaraajendra cites the words avajja, > avajjakara, and avajjabhiiru with citations and references. > Madhav Deshpande > > On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, jonathan silk wrote: > > > The AMg dictionary says that at Pra"snavyaakara.nasuutra 2.4 (Bombay > > Agamodaya-samiti, 1919) appears the word avajja = Skt. avadya. I am > > interested in this because the normal MIA equivalent seems to be vajja. > > Seth's Pkt. dictionary cites Suuyaga.da.mgasutta II.2.65 as containing the > > word avajja, but actually in the Jaina Agama Series para 713 = p. 280.14 > > the reading is vajjabahuula. Does the word avajja actually occur in AMg? > > > > Thanks for any help from someone who may have access to the edition > > > > Jonathan SILK > > > > jonathan.silk at yale.edu > > > From Royce.Wiles at ANU.EDU.AU Mon Sep 7 03:46:38 1998 From: Royce.Wiles at ANU.EDU.AU (Royce Wiles) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 98 13:46:38 +1000 Subject: avajja Message-ID: <161227041283.23782.14015052638235962199.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >The AMg dictionary says that at Pra"snavyaakara.nasuutra 2.4 (Bombay >Agamodaya-samiti, 1919) appears the word avajja = Skt. avadya. I am >interested in this because the normal MIA equivalent seems to be vajja. >Seth's Pkt. dictionary cites Suuyaga.da.mgasutta II.2.65 as containing the >word avajja, but actually in the Jaina Agama Series para 713 = p. 280.14 >the reading is vajjabahuula. Does the word avajja actually occur in AMg? > >Thanks for any help from someone who may have access to the edition Consulting the Alpaparicitasaiddhantasabdakosa (v. 1): avajjaM avadyam, pApaM [Visesavasyakasutra 1317, Avasyakasutra 364] avajjapa.dicchanno avadyapraticchanna.h, pApapracchAdita.h [Avasyakasutra 537] avajjabhIru avadyabhIru.h, sAdhu.h [Oghaniryukti 224] The relevant editions are: 1 Visesavasyaka / HaragovindadAsa-BecaradAsAbhyAm sa.msodhita. Benares 1911-14. 2 Avasyaka / [Anandasagara]. Mehasana : Agamodaya Samiti, 1915-1916. Reprinted as Avasyakaniryukti. Mumbai : Sri Bherulala Kanaiyalal Kothari Dharmika Trasta, 1981 or 1982. 2 v. 3 Oghaniryukti. Mehesana : Agamodaya Samiti, 1919. Sorry Jonathan but I don't have access to the Agamodaya Samiti edition here. From vsundaresan at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Sep 8 00:00:59 1998 From: vsundaresan at HOTMAIL.COM (Vidyasankar Sundaresan) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 98 17:00:59 -0700 Subject: pUrva mImAMsA question Message-ID: <161227041288.23782.15516942960918197266.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> While analyzing sureSvara's vArttika on Sankara's commentary to the bRhadAraNyaka upanishad (BU), I find a particular argument very hard to follow. I would appreciate pointers from list members regarding the pUrva mImAMsA aspect of the following. One distinctive position held by Sankara and his disciple is that, as the Atman is beyond all action, meditation on the Self cannot be enjoined in the scripture. This argument does not automatically mean that meditation on the Self is prohibited. The thrust of this argument is that Self-knowledge cannot be obtained as a result of ritual action (which may be enjoined), consisting of meditation on Brahman. Therefore, there is no need to combine ritual karma and jnAna. Still, as regards the sentence "AtmA vA are drashTavyaH, SrotavyaH, mantavyaH, nididhyAsitavyaH" (maitreyI brAhmaNa - BU 2. 4. 5; 4. 5. 6), Sankara accepts that it can be seen as a restrictive injunction (niyama vidhi), regarding meditation on the Self, while sureSvara accepts that it can be seen as an excluding injunction (parisaMkhyA vidhi), that eliminates meditation on the not-Self. Practically, the two interpretations mean the same thing - while Sankara accepts meditation only on the Self, sureSvara rejcts all meditation on the not-Self. What they both reject is the possibility that the above quoted sentence is an initial injunction (apUrva vidhi) or an injunction regarding eligibility (adhikAra vidhi). This portion of the argument makes perfect sense within advaita vedAnta. What is extremely difficult to follow is this. In the discussion under BU 4. 4. 21-22, the vArttika-kAra argues that if an injunction is only restrictive (niyama vidhi) or eliminative (parisaMkhyA vidhi), then it has no eligible person to address itself to. In such a case, an injunction concerning karma or its fruit would not be possible. This is so even for the karmakANDa, so that it would be quite impossible for the jnAnakANDa to enjoin meditation on the Self. My question is, do not even the niyama or parisaMkhyA kinds of injunction presume action, and therefore, a sense of agency? It would seem that even in restricting a certain kind of action or in excluding other kinds of action, an intelligent agent is necessarily assumed. The adhikAra aspect can be taken care of by saying that all human beings are entitled. What does the pUrva mImAMsA system say about the agent, with respect to niyama and parisaMkhyA vidhis? Or is this particular argument of sureSvara meant only against the possibility of adhikAra, and not really about the basic sense of agency itself? Vidyasankar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vsundaresan at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Sep 8 17:36:12 1998 From: vsundaresan at HOTMAIL.COM (Vidyasankar Sundaresan) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 98 10:36:12 -0700 Subject: pUrva mImAMsA question Message-ID: <161227041290.23782.13554262421662696823.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Perhaps I should rephrase my earlier question to emphasize the problem, when working with standard mImAMsA principles, as applied to the karmakANDa of the veda. We can come to the jnAnakANDa and the issue of moksha later. What does it mean, to have a statement that is a niyama or a parisaMkhyA injunction, but with no eligible person on whom anything is enjoined? Two followup questions - has Louis Renou's "Sankara: Prolegomenes au Vedanta" been translated into English? One of the essays in this work is on pUrva mImAMsA, as handled by Sankara. Also, who is the publisher of the 1951 French edition? Thanks, Vidyasankar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET Wed Sep 9 22:22:42 1998 From: kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET (Dr.S.Kalyanaraman) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 98 15:22:42 -0700 Subject: Hittite his'uwa festival and ancient migrants from India Message-ID: <161227041294.23782.4306919843403470179.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A recent compilation may be of interest: (Guterbock, H.G., The Hurrian Element in the Hittite Empire, in: Hoffner, Jr., Harry A. (ed.), Perspectives on Hittite CIvilization: selected writings of Hans Gustav Guterbock, Chicago, Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, 1997). In this article, Guterbock refers to a search for the tablets of Kuzzuwatna and the production of copies of the ritual of his'uwa festival. Could this relate to the vis'uva of the Aryan tradition? or the maha_vrata, another solstice festival of the Aitareya A_ran.yaka? A re-view of the Mitanni documents (including Kikkuli's horse-training manual)and Mesopotamian glyptic traditions of Mitanni cylinder seals seems to indicate the possibility of migration from India to Mesopotamia via the gulf, maritime route ca. 22nd century BC. cf. P. Thieme's thesis on 'aryan'gods in Mitanni (1960). (See extensive bibliographical and pictorial notes presented on the web pages at: http://sarasvati.simplenet.com/contacts/indiancivilization.htm Regards, Kalyanaraman ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail From mani at SHASTA.STANFORD.EDU Wed Sep 9 23:56:47 1998 From: mani at SHASTA.STANFORD.EDU (Mani Varadarajan) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 98 16:56:47 -0700 Subject: films on Hindu ritual Message-ID: <161227041295.23782.7559972945561461522.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am trying to obtain several films produced by H. Daniel Smith on the rituals of the Sri Vaishnavas of South India. Can anyone tell me if these are available anywhere, or whether they are available through interlibrary loan in the United States? The bibliographic information is: Image India: The Hindu Way Eleven Films on Hindu Ritual Syracuse University: 1969 H. Daniel Smith Please email me at mani at be.com. Thanks, Mani From Palaniappa at AOL.COM Thu Sep 10 01:31:38 1998 From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 98 21:31:38 -0400 Subject: a question on viSNu and dadhIchi Message-ID: <161227041298.23782.2795310231149096072.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Tamil kantapurANam refers to a story where viSNu tries to attack dadhIchi with his discus but the discus loses its sharp edge and turns harmless as a potter's wheel. I would like to know more details of this story and references from the Sanskrit side. Regards S. Palaniappan From kradhikary at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Wed Sep 9 22:03:27 1998 From: kradhikary at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Kamal R. Adhikary) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 98 23:03:27 +0100 Subject: Positions in South Asian and Japanese Studies Message-ID: <161227041292.23782.13921255302315040167.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues: There are two positions open at the Asian Studies, the University of Texas at Austin. The adds run as follows: POSITION IN SOUTH ASIAN STUDIES at The University of Texas at Austin Department of Asian Studies at the University of Texas at Austin is recruiting for a tenure-track position in its South Asian Studies Program at the level of Assistant Professor. The candidate needs to have a Ph.D. in hand by the time of appointment. We are looking for a person trained in the humanities having an emphasis on the culture and/or literature of either North India or South India. The candidate needs to have demonstrated teaching and research ability or potential and to possess a strong language background in Hindi/Urdu (for North India) or Tamil (for South India). Knowledge of a related Indian language will be an advantage. Area and period of specialization is open. The successful applicant will complement existing departmental strengths in South Asian languages, literature, history, religion, philosophy, anthropology, political science, and art history. Teaching duties will include an undergraduate gateway course to South Asia and other undergraduate and graduate courses related to the candidate's area of specialization. The University of Texas has a National Resource Center for South Asia funded by the U.S. Department of Education under Title VI. Please send a letter of interest, current CV, three letters of reference, recent papers/publications, and relevant syllabi to: South Asia Search Committee Department of Asian Studies, WCH 4.134 University of Texas at Austin Austin, Texas 78712-1194 The closing date for applications is November 20, 1998. An AA/EEO employer. ________________________________________________________________________ POSITION IN JAPANESE STUDIES The University of Texas at Austin The Department of Asian Studies at The University of Texas at Austin is recruiting for a tenure track position in its Japan program at the level of assistant professor. The candidate needs to have a Ph.D. in hand by the time of appointment. We are looking for a person trained in the humanities, having an emphasis on Japan's premodern culture and literature. The candidate needs to have demonstrated teaching and research ability or potential. The successful applicant will complement existing departmental strengths in 20th-century Japanese literature, cultural anthropology, history, and political science, and be committed to excellence in the classroom as well as to ongoing research. Teaching duties will be divided between the area of the candidate's specialty and upper-division language teaching. Please send a letter of interest, current CV, three letters of reference, recent papers/publications, and relevant syllabi drafts to: Japan Search Committee Department of Asian Studies, WCH 4.134 The University of Texas at Austin Austin, Texas 78712-1194 The closing date for applications is November 20, 1998. An AA/EEO employer The above ads are also posted at: http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/index.html Thanks. Kamal From smittal at RELIGION.UFL.EDU Thu Sep 10 13:05:24 1998 From: smittal at RELIGION.UFL.EDU (Sushil Mittal) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 98 09:05:24 -0400 Subject: email address query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041304.23782.11055634369896103803.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Wendy Doniger At 12:57 PM 9/10/98 +0100, you wrote: >Does Wendy Doniger use email? If so, could someone kindly let me know her >email address? Thanks. > >John Smith > >-- >Dr J. D. Smith * jds10 at cam.ac.uk >Faculty of Oriental Studies * Tel. 01223 335140 (Switchboard 01223 335106) >Sidgwick Avenue * Fax 01223 335110 >Cambridge CB3 9DA * http://bombay.oriental.cam.ac.uk/index.html > > Dr. Sushil Mittal University of Florida Department of Religion 125 Dauer Hall, PO Box 117410 Gainesville, Florida 32611-7410 Telephone (352) 392-1625 Telefax (352) 392-7395 E-mail smittal at religion.ufl.edu IJHS Homepage http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/ijhs/ From KERNLIB at RULLET.LEIDENUNIV.NL Thu Sep 10 11:39:38 1998 From: KERNLIB at RULLET.LEIDENUNIV.NL (Kern Library) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 98 12:39:38 +0100 Subject: sivaramamurti, c. Message-ID: <161227041299.23782.15460981830589244456.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear list members, For a scope note in the ABIA Index bibliography I am trying to find the birth and demise dates of the Indian art historian C. Sivaramamurti, but I have failed to come up with any definitive facts so far. >?From a commemoration volume dedicated to him in the eighties, I gather that he passed away sometime between 1980 and perhaps 1985. I assume obituaries were published... Hoping for more information, Ellen Raven ABIA Index editor for South Asia IIAS, Leiden From jds10 at CUS.CAM.AC.UK Thu Sep 10 11:57:02 1998 From: jds10 at CUS.CAM.AC.UK (John Smith) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 98 12:57:02 +0100 Subject: email address query Message-ID: <161227041303.23782.9189823030225990351.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does Wendy Doniger use email? If so, could someone kindly let me know her email address? Thanks. John Smith -- Dr J. D. Smith * jds10 at cam.ac.uk Faculty of Oriental Studies * Tel. 01223 335140 (Switchboard 01223 335106) Sidgwick Avenue * Fax 01223 335110 Cambridge CB3 9DA * http://bombay.oriental.cam.ac.uk/index.html From Asko.Parpola at HELSINKI.FI Thu Sep 10 11:31:11 1998 From: Asko.Parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 98 14:31:11 +0300 Subject: sivaramamurti, c. In-Reply-To: <01J1N44QY2UA9FMH6X@rullet.LeidenUniv.nl> Message-ID: <161227041301.23782.15547394948042442646.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Dear list members, > >For a scope note in the ABIA Index bibliography I am trying to find the birth >and demise dates of the Indian art historian C. Sivaramamurti, but I have >failed to come up with any definitive facts so far. >>From a commemoration volume dedicated to him in the eighties, I gather >>that he >passed away sometime between 1980 and perhaps 1985. I assume obituaries were >published... >Hoping for more information, > >Ellen Raven >ABIA Index editor for South Asia >IIAS, Leiden Sivaramamurti, Calambur (1909-1983). Best regards, AP Asko Parpola ------ e-mail Asko.Parpola at Helsinki.Fi Dept. of Asian and African Studies, University of Helsinki From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Sep 13 16:07:01 1998 From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 98 09:07:01 -0700 Subject: Dhvanyaaloka quote Message-ID: <161227041306.23782.9474073864309338217.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The DhvanyAloka of Aanandavardhana with the Locana of Abhinavagupta, Harvard univ. press, 1990, p. 343 gives 2.27f "Anandavardhana: An example of the poetic suggestion of fancy (utprek.saadhvani) is this: In spring the Malabar wind, swollen by the breathing of snakes that encircle sandalwood trees, makes travelors swoon. For in this example the capacity of the Malabar wind to cause travelors to swoon in spring is [actually] due to its stimulation of love. But this capacity is fancied (utprek.sita) to be due to the swelling of the wind by the poisonous breath of snakes wrapped around the sandalwood trees [of Malabar]." Can someone please give the sanskrit original? Is this poem by Anandavardhana himself or a different author/work or anonymous? The Malaya breeze occuring in sanskrit poems especially in love situations anywhere will be appreciated. Does Kalidasa or Subhaa.sitaratnako.sa use Malaya breeze in general love descriptions or in more specific vipralambha situations? I found two more instances: Da.n.din and Jayadeva. With kind regards, N. Ganesan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From fritsch_archaeology at YAHOO.COM Mon Sep 14 05:15:11 1998 From: fritsch_archaeology at YAHOO.COM (Christina Fritsch) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 98 22:15:11 -0700 Subject: General enquiry Message-ID: <161227041307.23782.5109267596094790184.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Do any of the indology list members know the 1) email address of Dr J.W de Jong and 2) where SAA conferences is being hosted next year ? Thanks. Caroline Fritsch email c.fritsch at pgrad.unimelb.edu.au _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From tattvarthi at YAHOO.COM Mon Sep 14 12:33:05 1998 From: tattvarthi at YAHOO.COM (Dmitry Olenev) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 98 05:33:05 -0700 Subject: Q: recent translations of Nyayabhashya Message-ID: <161227041314.23782.13434121842118174047.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Netters, do any of you know of recent (from 1980th) translations of Nyayabhashya into european languages? I know just of the translation made by Mrinal Kanti (1982). Many thanks in advance. Olenev Dmitry _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From HOYSALA at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Mon Sep 14 06:41:55 1998 From: HOYSALA at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Shikaripura Harihareswara) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 98 06:41:55 +0000 Subject: dhvanyAlOka quotation - Sanskrit original Message-ID: <161227041309.23782.8160535053281928192.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> REPLY: Dear shrI Ganeshan, Here is the Sanskrit original you were looking for: chandanAsakta-bhujaga-nihshvAsa-anila-mUrChitah | mUrChayati-ESha pathikAn madhau malaya-mArutah || I have a translation by Dr K Krishnamurthy, (Dept of Sanskrit, Karnatak University, Dharawar, in his book published by Sharada Mandira, Mysore) a LITTLE different from what you have cited for the above stanza. Please eMail me if you need more help. Thanks! Sincerely, -Harihareswara 8412 Fontenay Way, Stockton, CA 95210-5237 (209)957-6825 ======================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:07:01 PDT From: "N. Ganesan" Subject: Dhvanyaaloka quote The DhvanyAloka of Aanandavardhana with the Locana of Abhinavagupta, Harvard univ. press, 1990, p. 343 gives 2.27f "Anandavardhana: An example of the poetic suggestion of fancy (utprek.saadhvani) is this: In spring the Malabar wind, swollen by the breathing of snakes that encircle sandalwood trees, makes travelors swoon. For in this example the capacity of the Malabar wind to cause travelors to swoon in spring is [actually] due to its stimulation of love. But this capacity is fancied (utprek.sita) to be due to the swelling of the wind by the poisonous breath of snakes wrapped around the sandalwood trees [of Malabar]." Can someone please give the sanskrit original? Is this poem by Anandavardhana himself or a different author/work or anonymous? The Malaya breeze occuring in sanskrit poems especially in love situations anywhere will be appreciated. Does Kalidasa or Subhaa.sitaratnako.sa use Malaya breeze in general love descriptions or in more specific vipralambha situations? I found two more instances: Da.n.din and Jayadeva. With kind regards, N. Ganesan ============================ From vsundaresan at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Sep 14 23:51:42 1998 From: vsundaresan at HOTMAIL.COM (Vidyasankar Sundaresan) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 98 16:51:42 -0700 Subject: Q: recent translations of Nyayabhashya Message-ID: <161227041319.23782.8674059882711964688.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There is a 1984 English translation from Motilal Banarsidass and a 1985 translation from Munshiram Manoharlal. They include the texts of Uddyotakara, Vacaspati Misra and Udayana too. Both publishers are on the internet, so it should not be difficult to get hold of catalogs or copies. Regards, Vidyasankar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From Richard.Barz at ANU.EDU.AU Mon Sep 14 06:55:19 1998 From: Richard.Barz at ANU.EDU.AU (Richard Barz) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 98 16:55:19 +1000 Subject: General enquiry Message-ID: <161227041311.23782.13543708040687705667.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> As far as I know, Dr. de Jong does not use email. He is best contacted in care of Ms Betty Kat, Faculty of Asian Studies, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT Australia 0200. I don't know where the SAA conference will be next year. Richard >Do any of the indology list members know the 1) email address of Dr >J.W de Jong and 2) where SAA conferences is being hosted next year ? >Thanks. >Caroline Fritsch >email c.fritsch at pgrad.unimelb.edu.au > > > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Sep 14 21:45:34 1998 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 98 22:45:34 +0100 Subject: [Forwarded] DMG prizewinning dissertation Message-ID: <161227041317.23782.7466418025720133868.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 14 Sep 98 20:02 +0100 From: das.rp at t-online.de To: Dominik Wujastyk Subject: For the Indology Bulletin One of the two winners of the research award "DMG-Forschungspreis 1998" of the German Orientalist Society (Deutsche Morgenlaendische Gesellschaft) is Hans Harder of the Martin-Luther-Universitaet Halle-Wittenberg, Germany, for his dissertation entitled "Bankimchandra Chattopadhyay's Srimadbhagavadgita: Translation and Analysis". The dissertation was prepared under the supervision of Rahul Peter Das, professor for the philology of modern Indian languages. From HOYSALA at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Tue Sep 15 06:06:02 1998 From: HOYSALA at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Shikaripura Harihareswara) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 06:06:02 +0000 Subject: A question on viSNu and dadhIchi - Pauranik references Message-ID: <161227041320.23782.1991424063120689770.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> REPLY: Dear Prof Palaniappan, namaskAra! The story of viShNu and dadhIchi, including the sudarshana chakra becoming blunt/powerless, appears in purANas: For example: Linga Purana - Dadhicha (also known as Dadhichi) episode. Incidentally, if you would like to dig into the origin of A. the bladed discus, sudarshana: 1 samudra-mathana episode appears in several puranas, such as: matsya purana vishnu purana, and bhagavata purana, but, it is in Brahma-vaivartha Purana, mention is made about the first appearnce of Sudarshana Chakra while the ocean was churned, after the horse uchchaishravas, the elephant aitAvata and just before Lakshmi appeared there from the great ocean. 2. Vishvakarma creates the discus weapon out of the dust of the Sun. (Vishnu Purana Amsha 3, Chapter 2.) 3. Mahabharata makes Agni to give Sudarshana Chakra to Sri Krishna after Khandava-vana- dahana ( and GanDhIva bow to Arjuna) 4 The power of Sudarshana chakra used by Mahavishnu is narrated in Mahabharata Adiparva, chapter 19. B. Dadhichi: 1 Son of the sage Bhrigu. ( Mahabharata, Shalya Parva, 51.83) 2 Son of Shanti or Chitti (Kardama's daughter)& Atharva (brahma's mAnasa pitra) (Brahma Purana) 3 Had a son by name Pippilada in Suvarcha (born after Dadhichi died.) . 4 Dadhichi's story appears in Rigveda 1:13:84, where he helps Indra ( and other Devas) 4 Dadhichi's helping nature, to the extent of sacrificing himself for a cause he considers worthy- appears in various Puranas, such as: Bhagavata, Brahma, Skanda, Shiva, Devi Bhagavata etc Sincerely, -Harihareswara 8412 Fontenay Way, Stockton, CA 95210-5237 (209)957-6825 ===================YOU WROTE========== Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:31:38 EDT From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan Subject: a question on viSNu and dadhIchi The Tamil kantapurANam refers to a story where viSNu tries to attack dadhIchi with his discus but the discus loses its sharp edge and turns harmless as a potter's wheel. I would like to know more details of this story and references from the Sanskrit side. Regards S. Palaniappan ------------------------------ From Royce.Wiles at ANU.EDU.AU Mon Sep 14 21:35:00 1998 From: Royce.Wiles at ANU.EDU.AU (Royce Wiles) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 07:35:00 +1000 Subject: General enquiry Message-ID: <161227041316.23782.16930211780355464176.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Do any of the indology list members know the 1) email address of Dr J.W de Jong and 2) where SAA conferences is being hosted next year ? Thanks. Caroline Fritsch I can only help with no. 1. Professor J. W. de Jong does not use email. His mailing address is: 4 Jansz Crescent, Manuka ACT 2603 Australia From garzilli at SHORE.NET Tue Sep 15 13:52:16 1998 From: garzilli at SHORE.NET (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 09:52:16 -0400 Subject: Dhvanyaaloka quote Message-ID: <161227041312.23782.17284279751722234519.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> N. Ganesan wrote: > > The DhvanyAloka of Aanandavardhana with the Locana of Abhinavagupta, > Harvard univ. press, 1990, p. 343 gives > > 2.27f > > "Anandavardhana: An example of the poetic suggestion of fancy > (utprek.saadhvani) is this: > > In spring the Malabar wind, > swollen by the breathing of snakes > that encircle sandalwood trees, > makes travelors swoon. > > For in this example the capacity of the Malabar wind to cause > travelors to swoon in spring is [actually] due to its stimulation > of love. But this capacity is fancied (utprek.sita) to be due to > the swelling of the wind by the poisonous breath of snakes wrapped > around the sandalwood trees [of Malabar]." > > Can someone please give the sanskrit original? Is this > poem by Anandavardhana himself or a different author/work or > anonymous? > > The Malaya breeze occuring in sanskrit poems especially > in love situations anywhere will be appreciated. > Does Kalidasa or Subhaa.sitaratnako.sa use Malaya breeze > in general love descriptions or in more specific vipralambha > situations? I found two more instances: Da.n.din and Jayadeva. > > With kind regards, > N. Ganesan > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Also V. Mazzarino, *DhvanyAloka. I principi dello dhvani*, Turin 1983, gives a slighly different transl. In fn. 101 she writes that the source of this verse is unknown. However, this is a topos in Indian Literature. -- Dr. Enrica Garzilli University of Perugia (ITALY) Istituto di Linguistica Piazza Morlacchi, 11 06123 Perugia Tel./Fax: +39-75-585 3755 (office) Editor-in-Chief, Intl. Journ. of Tantric Studies, Journal of S. Asia Women Studies htpp://www.asiatica.org/ ***************************************************************** From athr at LOC.GOV Tue Sep 15 14:26:23 1998 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 10:26:23 -0400 Subject: sivaramamurti, c. -Reply Message-ID: <161227041327.23782.13226986596738284139.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Library of Congress names authority database says that he was born in 1909, and cites as the source Prof. Sivaramamurti himself. Sign onto MUMS and enter, "find n sivaramamurti, c.;f=na" or "pcrd n79-84369". Allen Thrasher Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian Southern Asia Section Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC 20540-4714 tel. (202) 707-3732 fax (202) 707-1724 email: athr at loc.gov The usual disclaimers apply. >>> Kern Library 09/10/98 07:39am >>> Dear list members, For a scope note in the ABIA Index bibliography I am trying to find the birth and demise dates of the Indian art historian C. Sivaramamurti, but I have failed to come up with any definitive facts so far. >?From a commemoration volume dedicated to him in the eighties, I gather that he passed away sometime between 1980 and perhaps 1985. I assume obituaries were published... Hoping for more information, Ellen Raven ABIA Index editor for South Asia IIAS, Leiden From Kjkarttu at ELO.HELSINKI.FI Tue Sep 15 10:18:45 1998 From: Kjkarttu at ELO.HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 12:18:45 +0200 Subject: General enquiry Message-ID: <161227041322.23782.4424939925939269490.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On 13 Sep 98 at 22:15, Christina Fritsch wrote: > Date sent: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:15:11 -0700 > Send reply to: Indology > From: Christina Fritsch > Subject: General enquiry > To: INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK > Do any of the indology list members know the 1) email address of Dr > J.W de Jong and 2) where SAA conferences is being hosted next year ? > Thanks. > Caroline Fritsch > email c.fritsch at pgrad.unimelb.edu.au 2) SAA 1999 will be in Leiden, Netherlands, arranged by Prof. K. van Kooij. Contact e-mail: iias at rullet.leiden Regards Klaus Karttunen From omkar at GIASDL01.VSNL.NET.IN Tue Sep 15 10:02:48 1998 From: omkar at GIASDL01.VSNL.NET.IN (Swami Vishvarupananda) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 15:32:48 +0530 Subject: A question on viSNu and dadhIchi - Pauranik references Message-ID: <161227041324.23782.13031759577676198169.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> -----Original Message----- From: Anand Hudli To: Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 2:22 AM Subject: Shri Rudram 1.5 || AUM namo bhagavate rudrAya || The Rishi of this Rik is either Gautama or GodhUma, the devatA Rudra, and the meter anushhTubh. The dyAna shloka of this mantra is mentioned by BhaTTa bhAskara: sA.ngrAmikeNa vapushhA pravirAjamAnaM dR^ipyatpuratrayatR^iNAshani- mandahAsam.h | daityAndidhaxumachaleshvarachApapANiM dhyAyetpurArimamaraugha- rathAdhirUDham.h|| One should meditate on the brilliant, warrior form of the enemy of tripura whose light smile is the lightning that destroys the arrogant tripura, who bears in His hand the Mount Meru as His bow for the purpose of burning the daityas, and who has mounted the chariot made of the multitude of gods. The mahAbhArata contains an account of how Shiva destroyed the three cities (tripura). The demon tAraka was killed by kArtikeya. The three sons of tAraka then performed penance and obtained a boon from BrahmA according to which they could move about in three castles or cities made of iron, silver, and gold. They could only be slain by a single arrow after a period of a thousand years. Armed with this boon, the demons harassed the gods and good people. The gods approached Shiva and begged Him to annihilate these arrogant demons. Shiva then acquired half the strength of all gods and came to be called mahAdeva, the great God. He made ViShNu the fiery arrow which He shot and completely burned up the three cities and the demons. The three cities are interpreted as the three bodies - the causal body (kAraNa sharIra), the subtle body ( sUkshhma sharIra, and the gross body (sthUla sharIra). Shiva destroys these three bodies that represent ignorance. shivena vachasA tvA girishAchchhA vadAmasi | yathA naH sarvamijjagadayakshhmaM sumanA asat.h || (Shri Rudram: anuvAka 1, Rik 5) shivena vachasA - with auspicious words tvA - You girisha - O Resident of the (KailAsa) Mountain achchha - in order to obtain vadAmasi - we pray yathA - in which manner naH - our sarvamid.h jagat.h - this whole world of man and animals, the movables ayakshhmam.h - free from ills sumanA - filled with cheerfulness and benevolence asat.h - may it become O Girisha (the Resident of the Mountain KailAsa)! In order to attain You we pray with auspicious words. In which manner the whole world of people, animals, (and other) movables, may become free from disease and filled with cheerfulness and benevolence, (make it so). Simple Sanskrit Rendering he girisha! tvAM prAptuM maN^galena vachanena vayaM stumaH | yathA asmAkaM sarvaM jagat.h rogarahitaM saumanasaM bhavati tathA kuru| O Girisha, (the Resident of the Mountain)! In order to attain You we praise You with auspicious words. Make our whole world free from ills and full of cheerfulness and benevolence. sAyaNAchArya-bhAshhyam.h (Commentary of sAyaNAchArya) girau kailAse shete tishhThatIti girisho he girisha tvAmachcha prAptuM shivena maN^galena stutirUpeNa vachasA vadAmasi vayaM prArthayAmahe | yathA yena prakAreNa no.asmadIyaM sarvamijjagat.h | ichchhabdo.avadhAraNe yathA sarvamapi manushhyapashvAdikaM jaN^gamajAtamayaxmaM rogarahitaM sumanA asatsaumanasyopetaM bhavati tathA kuru | Girisha is one who resides in the Mountain KailAsa. O Girisha! In order to attain You we pray with auspicious words in the form of a hymn of praise. Make this whole world of ours (id.h is understood as) consisting of all people and animals, the movables, free from disease and endowed with cheerfulness and benevolence. According to "achchhAbherAptumiti" of YAskAchArya's nirukta, the word "achchha(A)" appearing in the Shruti has the meaning of "Aptum.h", to attain. Notes based on the commentary of bhaTTa bhAskara: 1) shivena vachasA is interpreted as follows: tvadIyaguNasaMkIrtanaparatayA kalyANakareNa tava prItikareNa vA stotralaxaNena vachanena ... By words that indicate a hymn, are engaged in glorifying Your qualities, and bestow auspiciousness or loving devotion to You. 2) ashivena hi vachanena devaH krudhyet.h | The God may become angry by (using) inauspicious words (in His praise). BhaTTa BhAskara has quoted from the R^ig Vedic Rudra sUkta (sometimes also called the R^ig Vedic Rudram) in support of this statement: mA tvA rudra chukrudhAmA namobhirmA dushhTutI vR^ishhabha mA sahUtI | unno vIrAn.h arpaya bheshhajebhirbhishhaktamaM tvA bhishhajAM shR^iNomi || O Rudra! Let us not make You angry by (incorrect) obeisances or by faulty praises or by invoking You with (other lesser) gods. Along with Your remedies (medicines) kindly grant us heroic (sons), (since) we hear that You are the foremost among physicians, O Bestower of gifts! || AUM namo bhagavate rudrAya || Anand ============= -----Original Message----- From: Shikaripura Harihareswara To: Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 12:06 PM Subject: Re: A question on viSNu and dadhIchi - Pauranik references >REPLY: >Dear Prof Palaniappan, >namaskAra! >The story of viShNu and dadhIchi, including the >sudarshana chakra becoming blunt/powerless, >appears in purANas: >For example: > Linga Purana - Dadhicha (also known as Dadhichi) episode. > >Incidentally, if you would like to dig into the origin of >A. the bladed discus, sudarshana: > 1 samudra-mathana episode appears in several puranas, > such as: > matsya purana > vishnu purana, and > bhagavata purana, > but, it is in Brahma-vaivartha Purana, mention is made > about the first appearnce of Sudarshana Chakra while > the ocean was churned, after the horse uchchaishravas, > the elephant aitAvata and just before Lakshmi appeared > there from the great ocean. > > 2. Vishvakarma creates the discus weapon out of the dust > of the Sun. (Vishnu Purana Amsha 3, Chapter 2.) > > 3. Mahabharata makes Agni to give Sudarshana Chakra to > Sri Krishna after Khandava-vana- dahana ( and GanDhIva > bow to Arjuna) > 4 The power of Sudarshana chakra used by Mahavishnu is > narrated in Mahabharata Adiparva, chapter 19. > >B. Dadhichi: > 1 Son of the sage Bhrigu. ( Mahabharata, Shalya Parva, 51.83) > 2 Son of Shanti or Chitti (Kardama's daughter)& Atharva > (brahma's mAnasa pitra) (Brahma Purana) > 3 Had a son by name Pippilada in Suvarcha (born after > Dadhichi died.) . > > 4 Dadhichi's story appears in Rigveda 1:13:84, where he helps > Indra ( and other Devas) > 4 Dadhichi's helping nature, to the extent of sacrificing himself > for a cause he considers worthy- appears in various Puranas, > such as: Bhagavata, Brahma, Skanda, Shiva, Devi Bhagavata etc > >Sincerely, >-Harihareswara >8412 Fontenay Way, >Stockton, CA 95210-5237 >(209)957-6825 >===================YOU WROTE========== >Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:31:38 EDT >From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan >Subject: a question on viSNu and dadhIchi > >The Tamil kantapurANam refers to a story where viSNu tries to attack dadhIchi >with his discus but the discus loses its sharp edge and turns harmless as a >potter's wheel. I would like to know more details of this story and references >from the Sanskrit side. > > >Regards >S. Palaniappan > >------------------------------ > From bvi at AFN.ORG Tue Sep 15 19:42:42 1998 From: bvi at AFN.ORG (Chris Beetle) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 15:42:42 -0400 Subject: Q: recent translations of Nyayabhashya Message-ID: <161227041329.23782.11109723299666965438.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 04:51 PM 9/14/98 PDT, you wrote: >There is a 1984 English translation from Motilal Banarsidass and a 1985 >translation from Munshiram Manoharlal. They include the texts of >Uddyotakara, Vacaspati Misra and Udayana too. Both publishers are on the >internet, so it should not be difficult to get hold of catalogs or >copies. Do you have a URL for Munshiram Manoharlal? I was unable to find their web page. Thank you for your help. Chris Beetle From bvi at AFN.ORG Tue Sep 15 19:59:19 1998 From: bvi at AFN.ORG (Chris Beetle) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 15:59:19 -0400 Subject: Mahabharata with Index Needed Message-ID: <161227041331.23782.9448185493121055117.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Do you know of an English translation of the Mahabharata with an index? Thank you for your help. Chris Beetle Bhaktivedanta Institute From vsundaresan at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Sep 16 00:10:01 1998 From: vsundaresan at HOTMAIL.COM (Vidyasankar Sundaresan) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 17:10:01 -0700 Subject: Q: recent translations of Nyayabhashya Message-ID: <161227041333.23782.6395509908076039247.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Do you have a URL for Munshiram Manoharlal? I was unable to find their web >page. MM is the first entry under the link to Indological publishers and booksellers, at the Indology website. Go to . Vidyasankar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From omkar at GIASDL01.VSNL.NET.IN Tue Sep 15 14:21:53 1998 From: omkar at GIASDL01.VSNL.NET.IN (Swami Vishvarupananda) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 19:51:53 +0530 Subject: Awfully Sorry Message-ID: <161227041326.23782.6927794825828166043.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Harih Om, I'm awfully sorry for the posting which was an accident. I don't know by what stupid mistake I posed this. Please excuse. Greetings and Om, Vishvarupananda From kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET Wed Sep 16 03:14:06 1998 From: kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET (Dr.S.Kalyanaraman) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 20:14:06 -0700 Subject: Decipherment of Indus Script Message-ID: <161227041335.23782.14084795005578099202.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Friends, Breakthrough! So many claims have been made so far (cf. Possehl's Indus Age: Writing System)that I am submitting this after careful deliberation and 18 years of work on an electronic comparative Indian lexicon. 37 pages of Decipherment of Indus Script: Preliminary Hieroglyphic Dictionary have been posted as PDF and MSWORD documents. Only lexemes, as attested in one or more Indian languages are matched with the glyphs. URL: http://sarasvati.simplenet.com Language? Indic (of the Indian Sprachbund ca. 3000 BC in Sarasvati and Sindhu River Valleys--from Ga_ndha_ra to Lothal, from Shahr-i-Sokhta to Rupar). Contents? Bronze-age Weapons. Writers? Metal- and Fire-workers who could engrave on copper plates. No wonder, India was, perhaps,the only ancient region in the world which used copper plates for recording property transactions and gifts. Would deeply appreciate receiving critical comments and suggestions. Thanks and best regards, Kalyanaraman ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail From magier at COLUMBIA.EDU Wed Sep 16 14:08:38 1998 From: magier at COLUMBIA.EDU (David Magier) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 10:08:38 -0400 Subject: Komal Kothari event: WEB announcement Message-ID: <161227041337.23782.18156501638261769940.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Members of the Rajasthan Studies Group and other interested scholars, please visit the EVENTS CALENDAR section of SARAI (South Asia Resource Access on the Internet) to see details of the upcoming talk with eminent Rajasthan-wallah, Shri Komal Kothari ("Oral & Vernacular Traditions at Risk") SARAI is at: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/libraries/indiv/area/sarai Calendar is at: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/libraries/indiv/area/sarai/conferences.html From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Sep 16 22:56:08 1998 From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 15:56:08 -0700 Subject: Decipherment of Indus Script Message-ID: <161227041339.23782.9271688007898769491.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> *Breakthrough! So many claims have been made so far (cf. Possehl's Indus Age: *Writing System)that I am submitting this after careful deliberation and 18 *years of work on an electronic comparative Indian lexicon. [...] *Language? Indic (of the Indian Sprachbund ca. 3000 BC in Sarasvati and Sindhu *River Valleys--from Ga_ndha_ra to Lothal, from Shahr-i-Sokhta to Rupar). Does this mean that the IVC seals is a mixture of Sanskrit and Dravidian? Why I am asking this is Dr. Kalyanaraman has written few times about coalsceing "so-called" Dravidian and "so-called" Indo-Aryan into "Indian Sprachbund ca. 3000 BC" in this forum. In Indology forum on 27-feb-1995, Mr. S. Kalyanaraman wrote under the title "Semantic clustering technique in South Asian dictionary", * I think I have proved that Burrow and Emeneau's * work is an aberrant, erroneous construct of a artificial family; * most of their etyma (over 4,000 out of 5,000) really belong with * the rest of the family of languages of South Asia. Is Dravidian language family really an aberrant, erroneous construct? Is Dravidian an "artificial" family? Regards, N. Ganesan In Indology link to members' queries, post etc, one can find: Sarasvati-Sindhu civilization (c. 3000 B.C.) <<< More researches need to be done in identifying the civilization that flourished along the Sarasvati river. Balarama's sojourn along this river up from the Rann of Kutch is depicted in the Mahabharata. This has to be studied further. Sanskrit literature will have abundant material on the importance of sarasvati. Siddha-mAtrka is the name of the BrAhmi script. BrAhmi is another name for Sarasvati. Without apriori assumption that brAhmI was derived from the Indus\-Sarasvati seal inscription script, it should be possible to postulate a hypothesis that sarasvati river played a significant part in the sustenance of the civilization circa 3000 to 1700 B.C. This may mean a new paradigm in our protohistoric studies. Aryans and Dravidians and perhaps Mundas lived in harmony in this civilization. The so-called indo-aryan and so-called dravidian languages may have originated from the common lingua franca spoken by these people on the Indus and Sarasvati river valleys. Thus, common words of Tamil can be found in Sanskrit/Vedic. The author claims to have established that the Dravidian etymological dictionary with 5000 entries can cease to exist since many of these words have cognates in vedic/munda and many south asian languages. >>> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mahadevasiva at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Sep 17 01:57:18 1998 From: mahadevasiva at HOTMAIL.COM (S Krishna) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 18:57:18 -0700 Subject: Decipherment of Indus Script Message-ID: <161227041341.23782.14034062696235097054.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Mr s.Kalyanaraman writes: >Friends, > >Breakthrough! So many claims have been made so far (cf. Possehl's Indus A= >ge: >Writing System)that I am submitting this after careful deliberation and 1= >8 >years of work on an electronic comparative Indian lexicon. Dear Mr Kalyanaraman, I must congratulate you on your monumental achievement which may help us to unlock secrets which are currently beyond our reach..I do have a small question for you based on what I've read of your paper.. (pardon my naievity if I missed some very elementary point) In the begining, while listing the technique of reconstruction( as I understand it), you said that words belonging to all Indian languages would be listed and have thereby included Urdu. Has the Urdu word in any given case been used to reconstruct the assumed original root word? The reason why I'm specifically asking you this is because Urdu, as is well known has an unusually large number of words of Farsi descent which in turn are derived from Arabic, which is not related to any Indian language that I know off..I therefore am not sure of why you would want to list Urdu words and more importantly, how this would help in the derivation of the original root... Regards, Krishna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From tattvarthi at YAHOO.COM Thu Sep 17 10:32:12 1998 From: tattvarthi at YAHOO.COM (Dmitry Olenev) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 03:32:12 -0700 Subject: Q:Dehatmavada of Badarinath Sukla Message-ID: <161227041343.23782.8224144598838889253.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, more than 10 years ago Badarinath Sukla, a great naiyayika, propounded his theory of dehatmavada at the conference of scholars held at Sarnath. The text of report has been translated into English and published in Journal of Indian Council of Philosophical Research, Vol.5, No3, 1988. (Unfortunately, I don't remember the title, so I cannot mention it). In this connection I'd like to know whether the original text of the report (in sanskrit) has ever been published or not. Besides, I'm sure this original theory could not but cause lively controversy, so I'd like also to know of articles discussing dehatmavada. Could you help me find relevant references? I'll be very grateful for any useful information. Dmitry Olenev _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET Thu Sep 17 14:55:53 1998 From: kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET (Dr.S.Kalyanaraman) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 07:55:53 -0700 Subject: [Re: Decipherment of Indus Script] Message-ID: <161227041345.23782.14657309000422542590.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> owner-indology at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK wrote: >krishna wrote: > I must congratulate you on your monumental achievement which may help > us to unlock secrets which are currently beyond our reach...[snip]you said that words belonging to all Indian languages> would be listed and have thereby included Urdu. Has the Urdu word in any> given case been used to reconstruct the assumed original root word? The> reason why I'm specifically asking you this is because Urdu,> as is well known has an unusually large number of words of Farsi descent> which in turn are derived from Arabic, which is not related to> any Indian language that I know off..I therefore am not sure of why you> would want to list Urdu words and more importantly, how this would help> in the derivation of the original root...> In the Indian Lexicon containing 8000+ semantic clusters, not a single reconstruction has been made of an assumed original root word. I have clustered the lexemes as they are attested in the dictionaries of Punjabi_, La_hn.d.a, Jat.ki (Jukes' dic.), Sindhi, Gujarati_, Ma_rwa_ri_, Western Paha_r.i_, Bashkari_k (Dardic), Ga_ndha_ri_ (Dharmapada ed. J. Brough, Oxford 1962), Gar.hwa_li_, Gypsy, Bhojpuri_, Awadhi_, Kashmiri, lexemes attested in Corpus Inscripionum Indicarum, Kumauni_, Brahui, Prakrit, Pali and Rigveda. Since over 3000 lexemes of Dravidian Etyma (DEDR) are also so clustered, I am confident that most of the lexemes collated in the Lexicon related to very ancient times. Many Urdu lexemes are certainly relatable to these languages. Wherever a Persian or Arabic concordance is found as recorded for e.g. in Balsara's Gujarati Etymological Dictionary, the Persian or Arabic lexeme has also been cited. I believe that the stunning finding from the Lexicon is the remarkable phonemic stability of the lexemes over perhaps five millennia or more. Hence, there was no need to reconstruct a hypothetical *INDIC for reading either a glyph or a substantive word for a weapon. Thanks and regards, Kalyanaraman ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail From sreeni at KTP.UNI-PADERBORN.DE Thu Sep 17 15:31:35 1998 From: sreeni at KTP.UNI-PADERBORN.DE (Sreenivas Paruchuri) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 17:31:35 +0200 Subject: In word and deed (India Today) In-Reply-To: <19980917015718.14449.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <161227041346.23782.10632579580821680921.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The following report may be of interest to some people on this list. Regards, Sreenivas www.india-today.com/itoday/21091998/offtrack.html A couple raises their 3 children on an undiluted diet of Sanskrit to prove a point. ..... From mahadevasiva at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Sep 18 01:12:25 1998 From: mahadevasiva at HOTMAIL.COM (S Krishna) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 18:12:25 -0700 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227041353.23782.2848861737251725158.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Lars Martin Fosse writes: >Dear members of the Net, and also to any other reviews = >and discussions of Rao's books ("Lothal and the Indus Civilization"; "The Decipherment of the Indus Script").=20 > >Best regards, > >Lars Martin Fosse Iravatham Mahadevan as I remember it, reviewed his work as part of an overall review presented at the Annual Session of the Indian History Congress in 1996(I believe) under the title "nEti! nEti!"( NOT thus! NOT thus!). In addition, there also exists a more "populist" review by Shireen Ratnaugar in the "India Today" if I remember right, but this seems (atleast to me) a simplified version of the former... Regards, Krishna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET Fri Sep 18 02:34:25 1998 From: kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET (Dr.S.Kalyanaraman) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 19:34:25 -0700 Subject: [] Message-ID: <161227041355.23782.10038953713712793953.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, In addition to the posting of Krishna on Mahadevan's survey in an Indian History Congress, there was a comprehensive review of Rao's decipherment by Mahadevan in Puratattva. An excellent bibliography which also references mine is in Parpola, Deciphering the Indus Script. Regards, kalyanaraman. owner-indology at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK wrote: > Dear members of the Net, > > I am looking for some information concerning S. R. Rao's decipherment of the Indus script. There is supposed to be a review of his work in the American Journal of Oriental Studies. I would be grateful for bibliographic references to this review, and also to any other reviews and discussions of Rao's books ("Lothal and the Indus Civilization"; "The Decipherment of the Indus Script"). > > Best regards, > > Lars Martin Fosse > > > > Dr. art. Lars Martin Fosse > Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, > 0674 Oslo > Norway > Phone/Fax: +47 22 32 12 19 > Email: lmfosse at online.no ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail From ebryant at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Fri Sep 18 02:44:51 1998 From: ebryant at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Edwin Bryant) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 22:44:51 -0400 Subject: Indus Writing: Critique of Rao In-Reply-To: <01BDE28E.33076D00@ti01a23-0022.dialup.online.no> Message-ID: <161227041357.23782.12337619345470192488.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In addition to Mahadevan, there is a review of Rao by Norman, K.R. in Lingua 63 (3-4): 313-324. I imagine you are also aware of Greg Possehl's 'Indus Age: the Writing System' which critiques just about every decipherment attempt including Raos's. Best Edwin. On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Lars Martin Fosse wrote: > Dear members of the Net, > > I am looking for some information concerning S. R. Rao's decipherment of the Indus script. There is supposed to be a review of his work in the American Journal of Oriental Studies. I would be grateful for bibliographic references to this review, and also to any other reviews and discussions of Rao's books ("Lothal and the Indus Civilization"; "The Decipherment of the Indus Script"). > > Best regards, > > Lars Martin Fosse > > > > Dr. art. Lars Martin Fosse > Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, > 0674 Oslo > Norway > Phone/Fax: +47 22 32 12 19 > Email: lmfosse at online.no > From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO Thu Sep 17 22:54:52 1998 From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 22:54:52 +0000 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227041348.23782.14267898005498336213.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of the Net, I am looking for some information concerning S. R. Rao's decipherment of the Indus script. There is supposed to be a review of his work in the American Journal of Oriental Studies. I would be grateful for bibliographic references to this review, and also to any other reviews and discussions of Rao's books ("Lothal and the Indus Civilization"; "The Decipherment of the Indus Script"). Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Dr. art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo Norway Phone/Fax: +47 22 32 12 19 Email: lmfosse at online.no From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Thu Sep 17 22:21:13 1998 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 23:21:13 +0100 Subject: Lecture on HIndu-Muslim Violence in India, Prof. Paul Brass (fwd) Message-ID: <161227041350.23782.3408152940502595142.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:56:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Nancy Braxton To: dhirc at columbia.edu Subject: Lecture on HIndu-Muslim Violence in India, Prof. Paul Brass Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center at Columbia University invites you to the September meeting of the UNIVERSITY SEMINAR ON INDOLOGY The Production of Hindu-Muslim Violence in Contemporary India Professor Paul Brass Department of Political Science, University of Washington Thursday, September 17, 1998 5:00 pm Lindsay Rodgers Room 700 International Affairs Bldg. w Information: call 854-5300 or email dhirc at columbia.edu w From dkprint at 4MIS.COM Fri Sep 18 04:56:22 1998 From: dkprint at 4MIS.COM (dkprint) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 00:56:22 -0400 Subject: Q: AIOC in Baroda Message-ID: <161227041359.23782.1258136101981402254.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Matsumura wrote: > > Dear Indian Colleagues, > > If anybody lets me know about the AIOC which is expected to be held in > Baroda in the end of this year, I am very grateful. I would like to know > the e-mail address of the organazing body. > > Thanks in advance > > Hisashi MATSUMURA prince at kobe-shinwa.ac.jp Dear Dr. Matsumura, The 39th Session of ALL INDIA ORIENTAL CONFERENCE is scheduled to be held in Oriental Institute of Vadodara during 13th - 15th Oct. 1998. Address of the organizers is as follows: Prof. R. I. Nanavati Director, Oriental Institute, and Local Secretary ALL INDIA ORIENTAL CONFERENCE Opp. Palace Gate, Palace Road Vadodara 390001 Phone (0265) 425121 I don't have their fax or E-mail details Thanks Susheel K. Mittal Director D. K. Printworld (P) Ltd. 'Sri Kunj', F- 52 Bali Nagar New Delhi-110015 From mahesh at STARNETINC.COM Fri Sep 18 13:12:00 1998 From: mahesh at STARNETINC.COM (Mahesh) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 08:12:00 -0500 Subject: Indus Script Message-ID: <161227041369.23782.10915591951353547448.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello Dominique! I share your frustrations. When I went to the URL, I started receiving what were "advertistisements". Perhaps this web page is hosted on one of those "free" servers because the author cannot afford it or is unable to host it elsewhere? This could be a real problem in third world countries. It would be instructive to contact the author and find out. mahesh -----Original Message----- From: Jibunnessa To: INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 7:55 AM Subject: Re: Indus Script >Dear Dominique > >I've just had a look at the WEB site mentioned below, >and had NO PROBLEMS!!! > >>>For more recent comments to the Indus Script decipherment >>>problem see: >>>http://www.vedickalidas.home.ml.org > >>Once more time a fucking web site! >>I was interested by content, not by a tremendously great >>picture, consuming a lot of time and money before any >>serious information appears! I resigned before the end. > >Well, it's a shame that you did! Though I don't have time >to read through the articles at this precise moment in time, >one thing I can say is that the picture on the front page is >the only one really (+ the odd textual graphics on the contents >page). All the other pages are just texts of probably interesting >information. > >>I'll never know what could be interesting. The lesser internet >>etiquette is to leave a choice to the user, not to act like an >>contemtible American moneymaker! > >I don't think these are very helpful comments. And to be so >textually viscious because of one attempt to access that took >longer than you hoped, is rather unfair! > >I'm actually very grateful to the merry band of people all over >the world who can be bothered enough to take the time and trouble >to set up and maintain WEB pages containing useful and interesting >information/discussions (esp if they also contain bibliographies >as well)! > >While I agree that some pages can be rather gimmicky and don't >take the user into consideration when designing, this is NOT one >of them! And your comment about 'contemtible American moneymaker' >is rather offensive. What are you talking about? What money? >The site is simply disceminating information, and engaging in >discussion! > >This is my first encounter with the WEB site in question and I >have no vested interest in defending it. However, let's NOT slag >off other people's efforts with such poison WITHOUT REASON! > >Jibunnessa Abdullah > >--- >Jibunnessa Abdullah Fax: +44 (181) 731-9770 >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Old Bengali saying: "If you don't know how to dance > the yard must be wonky!" > From prince at MX.KOBE-SHINWA.AC.JP Thu Sep 17 23:23:19 1998 From: prince at MX.KOBE-SHINWA.AC.JP (Matsumura) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 08:23:19 +0900 Subject: Q: AIOC in Baroda Message-ID: <161227041352.23782.9622936467058023907.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indian Colleagues, If anybody lets me know about the AIOC which is expected to be held in Baroda in the end of this year, I am very grateful. I would like to know the e-mail address of the organazing body. Thanks in advance Hisashi MATSUMURA prince at kobe-shinwa.ac.jp From bmisra at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Fri Sep 18 13:11:48 1998 From: bmisra at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Bijoy Misra) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 09:11:48 -0400 Subject: Indus Script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041367.23782.2440619415318459491.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dominique, Is it possible to keep your reaction to yourself? It is required.. I'm not joking. Bijoy Misra On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Dominique.Thillaud wrote: > >For more recent comments to the Indus Script decipherment problem see: > >http://www.vedickalidas.home.ml.org > > Once more time a fucking web site! > I was interested by content, not by a tremendously great picture, consuming > a lot of time and money before any serious information appears! > I resigned before the end. I'll never know what could be interesting. > The lesser internet etiquette is to leave a choice to the user, not to act > like an contemtible American moneymaker! > I don't know from where the site was made, but it's sure that the makers > understand fully the Bill Gates' spirit. > Sorry for the words, not for the reaction, > Dominique > > Dominique THILLAUD > Universite' de Nice Sophia-Antipolis, France > From jgardner at BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU Fri Sep 18 14:20:43 1998 From: jgardner at BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU (JR Gardner) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 09:20:43 -0500 Subject: Indus Script & new website In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980918144005.1b978af0@pop-server.bcc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <161227041373.23782.1336550189604645317.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The "debate" over the web site in question (http://www.vedickalidas.home.ml.org) probably arises from the fact that the site is served from a tripod.com site. With some browsers, Java will launch ("spawn") additional windows. Accordingly, some folks would and others would not get advertisements. The large image is, to be sure, well over the so-called etiquette of under 40k (it's 188k, and could be cut down in size with PhotoShop or other tools if need be), but all one has to do is set the browser preferences to not load images, or simply click on the 'stop' button in the browser bar before it fully loads. The site creator could also employ a "low source" tag so a B&W image loads first--quickly--while the color slowly loads in teh bkgd (I'd be happy to supply code syntax if the author wishes). The rest of the text pages were very image-free and quick loading. The content was otherwise generally well-organized and accessible. I also think it is important to consider the kinds rhetorical strategies employed by Dr. Rajaram, the site editor. Anyone familiar with Edwin Bryant's excellent dissertation on the whole Indus Valley and Aryan Civ. debate will know that Rajaram's is one of the more vocal perspectives and one which--agreeable to scholars or not--warrants some consideration if one is to understand the complexity and intensity of views on this subject. Perhaps it is alaso important to be conscious that even in the technology-concerned world of today, there is much less time and resources for scholars to invest in internet publication and tech. skills b/c the demands of one's own academic discipline alone are so consuming. In terms of netiquette, it is very appropriate to report one's own problems with access to the purveyor of the site-- a list-wide flame mail with profanity is not appropriate. respectfully, jr ___________________ John Robert Gardner http://vedavid.org/ ____________________________________________________ Obermann Center The Graduate College for Advanced Studies Gilmore Hall University of Iowa University of Iowa 319-335-4034 319-335-2144 http://www.uiowa.edu/~obermann/ ____________________________________________________ "Your dreams must always lead you beyond comfort" From mahesh at STARNETINC.COM Fri Sep 18 14:40:43 1998 From: mahesh at STARNETINC.COM (Mahesh) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 09:40:43 -0500 Subject: Indus Script Message-ID: <161227041375.23782.1876839996385942532.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello Jibunnessa! The "Advertisements" related to "Tripod" etc. and were probably related to the web server the site is hosted on. I am sorry, I brought up the subject because I was hoping better understanding would defuse the situation. Our focus should be on the content of the web site. In this age of almost instant communication, we can get impatient. The content of the web site deserves more of our focus. If the hosting server has a problem, maybe the author may consider hosting it elsewhere -- just a suggestion if anyone else experiences difficulties. Maybe Dominique being in France has a problem with his ISP and a slow connection. mahesh -----Original Message----- From: Jibunnessa To: INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 8:39 AM Subject: Re: Indus Script >Dear Mahesh > >>When I went to the URL, I started receiving what were "advertistisements". >>Perhaps this web page is hosted on one of those "free" servers because the >>author cannot afford it or is unable to host it elsewhere? This could be a >>real problem in third world countries. > >Now I'm really CONFUSED!!! > >I didn't get any advertisements coming up what so ever! Since your message >I've checked it again twice, and never did I get advertisements when going >to the vedickalidas site. > >Hmmm! Am I just lucky? > >--- >Jibunnessa Abdullah Fax: +44 (181) 731-9770 >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Old Bengali saying: "If you don't know how to dance > the yard must be wonky!" > From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Sep 18 16:58:49 1998 From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 09:58:49 -0700 Subject: Decipherment of Indus Script Message-ID: <161227041380.23782.1163564283327327197.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> *For more recent comments to the Indus Script decipherment problem see: *http://www.vedickalidas.home.ml.org I browsed the Web page. Some interesting portions are given below. Not sure whether the academy, east or west will agree on these! N. S. Rajaram says "Though there is now a tendency to treat the Aryan-Dravidian division as a linguistic phenomenon". Thank God! The "artifical construct" of Dravidian language family is allowed to exist. I am happy. Few in Indology list say "DEDR can cease to exist". Shri. Rajaram is more generous in this, I am glad to know. Regards, N. Ganesan ----------------------------------------------------- In the Editorial, Shri. N. S. Rajaram, the editor says > EDITORIAL: INDIA VS INDOLOGY [..] >But this is only part of the problem. The real problem is the field known >as Indology - a creation of alien interests with their own axes to grind. >It is not enough if we expose the distortions that are part of the current >version of history. We must strike at the root of the problem and expose >the forces that created these distortions to serve their own interests. >When we do so, what we find is that the Aryan invasion theory is only the >symptom, an external manifestation. The real insidious force is the >academic discipline known as Indology. ----------------------------------- <<<< VEDIC BOOKSHELF It becomes logical then to argue for North India to be the original home of the Aryans. The authors further argue for a reversal of the movement of the Aryans: they moved out of India into the outlying areas, into Persia and beyond. This new theory receives support from archaeology, from a comparative analysis of Mesopotamian and Egyptian mathematics with Vedic mathematics. - Professor K.D. Prithipaul There are now scholars mainly outside the establishment who are both original thinkers and compelling writers. One of them is Shrikant Talageri, the author of the book under review. His book upsets the whole framework built on the belief that the Rigveda contains the oldest records of India; Talageri?s contention, well supported, is that the much-maligned Puranas actually contain the accounts of the oldest dynasties of India. With this seemingly simple shift, he not only presents a coherent picture of ancient India, but also arrives at a plausible scenario for the origin and spread of the Indo-European speakers. When Talageri?s book appeared in 1993, this was like a bolt from the blue; Talageri?s most remarkable conclusion is the following: the Aryan dynasties' expansion in North India was from east to west and not from the nortwest to the Ganga valley as the invasionist dogma would have it. >>>>>>> -------------------------------------- The Aryan Invasion: History or Politics? <<< The evidence of science now points to two basic conclusions: first, there was no Aryan invasion, and second, the Rigvedic people were already established in India no later than 4000 BC. [...] Though there is now a tendency to treat the Aryan-Dravidian division as a linguistic phnomenon, its roots are decidedly racial and political ... >>> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET Fri Sep 18 17:59:57 1998 From: kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET (Dr.S.Kalyanaraman) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 10:59:57 -0700 Subject: [Re: Decipherment of Indus Script] Message-ID: <161227041383.23782.932965619651956267.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Ganesan wrote:[snip]> Thank God! The "artifical construct" of Dravidian language> family is allowed to exist. I am happy. Few in Indology list say> "DEDR can cease to exist". On DEDR, the following quote may be of interest: "The native Dravidian vocabulary has not been reconstructed. Burrow and Emeneau's Dravidian Etymological Dictionary (1960) only assembles materials for it... The civilization seems to have continued peacefully in Gujarat until a comparatively late period, i.e. 800 BC (Fairservis 1975: 307), after which it dissolved into the subsequent culture, which makes that area one of prime importance in detecting any Harappan influence on Aryan language and culture." (Colin P. Masica, The Indo-Aryan Languages, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press, 1991). San:gam literature refers to the descent of Chera kings from 42 generations of the rulers of Dwaraka... I suppose the point is that even at a lexical level,lot more work needs to be done to isolate Dravidian etyma which will certainly take the Dravidian languages back at the least to the neolithic. I have challenged that 3000+ DEDR etyma have concordant lexemes in NW Indian languages, including Gujarati_ and Dardic. I would be happy to be proven wrong which will only reinforce the underlying hypothesis that an Ursprache is a an ephemeral chase but a sprachbund is a reasonable framework to relate archaeology and language during the periods of transition from the neolithic and evolution into the bronze age. Regards, Kalyanaraman ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail From cssetzer at MUM.EDU Fri Sep 18 16:49:22 1998 From: cssetzer at MUM.EDU (Claude Setzer) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 11:49:22 -0500 Subject: Indus Script Message-ID: <161227041377.23782.3296391004611462370.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dominique, I tried this web site, and even with a slow connection it took only 50 seconds to bring up the home page. I think this is reasonable for such nice picture. However, if you cannot tolerate this you should just choose INTERNET options in your web browser and turn off "show Pictures." then this home page loads in about one second. I also get irritated by web site that take along time to load, however, your language is much more offensive than waiting for a nice picture!!! By the way, Bill Gates has absolutely nothing to do with how a person creates their web site. And Microsoft was actually a rather late comer into the INTERNET market, which had already developed its tradition of creating slow web site. Claude Setzer -----Original Message----- From: Dominique.Thillaud To: INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 7:08 AM Subject: Re: Indus Script >>For more recent comments to the Indus Script decipherment problem see: >>http://www.vedickalidas.home.ml.org > >Once more time a fucking web site! >I was interested by content, not by a tremendously great picture, consuming >a lot of time and money before any serious information appears! >I resigned before the end. I'll never know what could be interesting. >The lesser internet etiquette is to leave a choice to the user, not to act >like an contemtible American moneymaker! >I don't know from where the site was made, but it's sure that the makers >understand fully the Bill Gates' spirit. > Sorry for the words, not for the reaction, >Dominique > >Dominique THILLAUD >Universite' de Nice Sophia-Antipolis, France > From raoul at MARTENS.PP.SE Fri Sep 18 18:50:51 1998 From: raoul at MARTENS.PP.SE (Raoul Martens) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 11:50:51 -0700 Subject: Indus Script Message-ID: <161227041361.23782.15735749329782904950.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Lars Martin Fosse wrote: > > I am looking for some information concerning S. R. Rao's decipherment of the Indus script. There is supposed to be a review of his work in the American Journal of Oriental Studies. I would be grateful for bibliographic references to this review, and also to any other reviews and discussions of Rao's books ("Lothal and the Indus Civilization"; "The Decipherment of the Indus Script").< In addition to "Decipherment of the Indus Script, Bombay 1982", Rao has later published: "New light on Indus Script and Language, Frontiers of the Indus Civilization, Indian Archaeological Society, 1984" and "Dawn and Development of the Indus Civilization, Adita Prakashan, 1991". For more recent comments to the Indus Script decipherment problem see: http://www.vedickalidas.home.ml.org Sincerely Raoul Martens From jgardner at BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU Fri Sep 18 18:09:01 1998 From: jgardner at BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU (JR Gardner) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 13:09:01 -0500 Subject: embarrassing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041385.23782.2416316742895726715.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ******No Need to Reply to the Entire List******* I can't believe it but I cannot--anywhere--find Deshpande's address, and I was just communicating with him barely a few days ago. If anyone can help, please send it along to me rather than troubling the whole list. jr ___________________ John Robert Gardner http://vedavid.org/ ____________________________________________________ Obermann Center The Graduate College for Advanced Studies Gilmore Hall University of Iowa University of Iowa 319-335-4034 319-335-2144 http://www.uiowa.edu/~obermann/ ____________________________________________________ "Your dreams must always lead you beyond comfort" From gjha at STUDENTS.UIUC.EDU Fri Sep 18 18:18:49 1998 From: gjha at STUDENTS.UIUC.EDU (Girish Jha) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 13:18:49 -0500 Subject: Indus Script In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980918135555.2e4f5a6e@pop-server.bcc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <161227041387.23782.4234846275401842959.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Namaskaar, I too had no problems. The site is great. BTW which God is represented in that icon? Girish ******************************************************************** Girish Nath Jha Grad2, Computational Linguistics Graduate Research Assistant Dept. of Linguistics Beckman Institute 4088, FLB, UIUC 1714, Beckman, UIUC Ph. (217) 333-3563 Ph. (217) 244-7831 Home Address: 2025 B, S. Orchard Street, Urbana, IL, 61801 Ph. (217) 344-7050 ******************************************************************** "VASUDHAIVA KUTUMBAKAM" "The world itself is a family" (A Sanskrit saying from Upanishadas) On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Jibunnessa wrote: > Dear Dominique > > I've just had a look at the WEB site mentioned below, > and had NO PROBLEMS!!! > > >>For more recent comments to the Indus Script decipherment > >>problem see: > >>http://www.vedickalidas.home.ml.org > > >Once more time a fucking web site! > >I was interested by content, not by a tremendously great > >picture, consuming a lot of time and money before any > >serious information appears! I resigned before the end. > > Well, it's a shame that you did! Though I don't have time > to read through the articles at this precise moment in time, > one thing I can say is that the picture on the front page is > the only one really (+ the odd textual graphics on the contents > page). All the other pages are just texts of probably interesting > information. > > >I'll never know what could be interesting. The lesser internet > >etiquette is to leave a choice to the user, not to act like an > >contemtible American moneymaker! > > I don't think these are very helpful comments. And to be so > textually viscious because of one attempt to access that took > longer than you hoped, is rather unfair! > > I'm actually very grateful to the merry band of people all over > the world who can be bothered enough to take the time and trouble > to set up and maintain WEB pages containing useful and interesting > information/discussions (esp if they also contain bibliographies > as well)! > > While I agree that some pages can be rather gimmicky and don't > take the user into consideration when designing, this is NOT one > of them! And your comment about 'contemtible American moneymaker' > is rather offensive. What are you talking about? What money? > The site is simply disceminating information, and engaging in > discussion! > > This is my first encounter with the WEB site in question and I > have no vested interest in defending it. However, let's NOT slag > off other people's efforts with such poison WITHOUT REASON! > > Jibunnessa Abdullah > > --- > Jibunnessa Abdullah Fax: +44 (181) 731-9770 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Old Bengali saying: "If you don't know how to dance > the yard must be wonky!" > From ycrnn14 at UCL.AC.UK Fri Sep 18 13:55:55 1998 From: ycrnn14 at UCL.AC.UK (Jibunnessa) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 13:55:55 +0000 Subject: Indus Script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041365.23782.12931416883270498030.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dominique I've just had a look at the WEB site mentioned below, and had NO PROBLEMS!!! >>For more recent comments to the Indus Script decipherment >>problem see: >>http://www.vedickalidas.home.ml.org >Once more time a fucking web site! >I was interested by content, not by a tremendously great >picture, consuming a lot of time and money before any >serious information appears! I resigned before the end. Well, it's a shame that you did! Though I don't have time to read through the articles at this precise moment in time, one thing I can say is that the picture on the front page is the only one really (+ the odd textual graphics on the contents page). All the other pages are just texts of probably interesting information. >I'll never know what could be interesting. The lesser internet >etiquette is to leave a choice to the user, not to act like an >contemtible American moneymaker! I don't think these are very helpful comments. And to be so textually viscious because of one attempt to access that took longer than you hoped, is rather unfair! I'm actually very grateful to the merry band of people all over the world who can be bothered enough to take the time and trouble to set up and maintain WEB pages containing useful and interesting information/discussions (esp if they also contain bibliographies as well)! While I agree that some pages can be rather gimmicky and don't take the user into consideration when designing, this is NOT one of them! And your comment about 'contemtible American moneymaker' is rather offensive. What are you talking about? What money? The site is simply disceminating information, and engaging in discussion! This is my first encounter with the WEB site in question and I have no vested interest in defending it. However, let's NOT slag off other people's efforts with such poison WITHOUT REASON! Jibunnessa Abdullah --- Jibunnessa Abdullah Fax: +44 (181) 731-9770 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Old Bengali saying: "If you don't know how to dance the yard must be wonky!" From thillaud at UNICE.FR Fri Sep 18 12:13:29 1998 From: thillaud at UNICE.FR (Dominique.Thillaud) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 14:13:29 +0200 Subject: Indus Script In-Reply-To: <3602AB8B.15E4@martens.pp.se> Message-ID: <161227041363.23782.11937575963287518788.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >For more recent comments to the Indus Script decipherment problem see: >http://www.vedickalidas.home.ml.org Once more time a fucking web site! I was interested by content, not by a tremendously great picture, consuming a lot of time and money before any serious information appears! I resigned before the end. I'll never know what could be interesting. The lesser internet etiquette is to leave a choice to the user, not to act like an contemtible American moneymaker! I don't know from where the site was made, but it's sure that the makers understand fully the Bill Gates' spirit. Sorry for the words, not for the reaction, Dominique Dominique THILLAUD Universite' de Nice Sophia-Antipolis, France From mahadevasiva at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Sep 18 21:20:51 1998 From: mahadevasiva at HOTMAIL.COM (S Krishna) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 14:20:51 -0700 Subject: Indus Script Message-ID: <161227041389.23782.15906737815691756062.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Domique Thillaud writes: > >>For more recent comments to the Indus Script decipherment problem see: >>http://www.vedickalidas.home.ml.org > A few comments about the site and a few questions: 1. Whatever be N.s.Rajaram's other faults, humility does not seem to figure among them....It sure takes a lot of self-confidence to put oneself in the same category of people as Jacobi et al...To suggest that Georg Feuerstein and JAcobi are "co-workers" is obviously insulting to the later..... 2. Rajaram claims that Jacobi the mathematician was influenced by Vedic mathematics...Has anybody seen this elsewhere? I've read about the life of Jacobi in three different places but donot remember seeing any such thing there... 3. Rajaram refers to Kosambi's work and the class theory etc etc... Where does Kosambi use class theory to justify Aryan invasion or migration? AFAIK, he uses the "class theory" to bash and beat up the quality of Samskrt poetry written in the 6th-12th centuries.. In fact, Ingalls who edited the "zubhAzitaratnakOSa:" with Kosambi also points this out and expresses his disagreement with the same.. Kosambi's dating of the gItA( where he differs from others) is based mainly on grammatical analysis and has nothing to do with "class theory"..I really am interested in knowing where Kosambi uses class theory to support AIT, though he does quote Marx frequently on the high no of invasions into India.... 4. He mentions Natwar Jha's "breakthrough" in the decipherment of the IV Script...From what I have seen of Mahadevan's review, there seemed to be no such "breakthrough"...in fact Mahadevan points out basic fallacies like confusion between sound-values because of orthographical resemblence ( i.e. what I mean is that the symbol "S" would suggest "s" to somebody who knows only the Roman script, the letter "ka" to somebody who knows only the Telugu script("S" with a hat on the top is the Telugu symbol for "ka") and a "sandhi" for somebody who knows only the "nAgri" script( i.e: ka:+ ayam = koSyam) ..apparently Jha as well as Kak believe that if a symbol bares any resemblance to a Devanagri symbol, then their pronounciation is the same..... 5. He mentions Shriram Sathe's finding that the Christians wanting to get rid of Judaic ancestry or whatever...That argument takes the cake as well as the icing... I know that in the 18th century there were works which portrayed Islam as being a "better" religion than Christianity (Voltaire, if I remember correctly, authored one of these works)but at no stage was there any attempt to rid Christianity of Judaic roots.... 6. Rajaram takes a swipe at Christian mythology which says that the world came into being at 9:00 in the morning and notes that the time zone remains unspecified( giggle, giggle)....What he does not seem to know is that the same Shriram Sathe says that Rama brought back Sita to Ayodhya from Lanka in the year 7747 BC( or sometime around that).. He does not give us the time and does not specify whether Rama was using Srilankan standard time or Indian standard time or Bangladeshi standard time....more importantly since Rajaram believes that there is no difference between mythology and history, he should know that Lava and Kusa are still unborn and Rama still has to perform the azvamedhayagna since he is supposed to have lived for 10,000 years (he brought back sita 7500+ years ago according to Sathe, so atleast 2,400 years of Rama's reign still remain....). As always, I welcome comments, corrections and answers... Regards, Krishna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ycrnn14 at UCL.AC.UK Fri Sep 18 14:40:05 1998 From: ycrnn14 at UCL.AC.UK (Jibunnessa) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 14:40:05 +0000 Subject: Indus Script In-Reply-To: <021d01bde305$ecaacc80$1fb4e3cf@default> Message-ID: <161227041371.23782.3649728002913285488.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Mahesh >When I went to the URL, I started receiving what were "advertistisements". >Perhaps this web page is hosted on one of those "free" servers because the >author cannot afford it or is unable to host it elsewhere? This could be a >real problem in third world countries. Now I'm really CONFUSED!!! I didn't get any advertisements coming up what so ever! Since your message I've checked it again twice, and never did I get advertisements when going to the vedickalidas site. Hmmm! Am I just lucky? --- Jibunnessa Abdullah Fax: +44 (181) 731-9770 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Old Bengali saying: "If you don't know how to dance the yard must be wonky!" From kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET Sat Sep 19 01:18:34 1998 From: kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET (Dr.S.Kalyanaraman) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 18:18:34 -0700 Subject: [Re: Indus Script -- sort of far off the point now] Message-ID: <161227041393.23782.8817424406852061.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Jonathan Silk wrote: [snip]> Minor quibble: Kosambi edited the >subhASitaratnakoSa (sic, correctly> romanized: in Skt. why capitalize O? >I can't understand that? Except> prosodically, it cannot be short ever...) >along with V V Gokhale.[snip] The lengthening of the vowel O appears to be correct in case we end up digitizing Indian speech sounds. It is, unfortunate, that the Siddha Ma_tr.ka_ script did not an additional glyph to differentiate between short and long 'o'. The distinction is vividly preserved in scripts of all Dravidian languages. (Of course, ancient scripts for Tamil economise on glyphs for consonants). One has to hear the way 'Om' is uttered in almost all corners of India; or how 'sOma' or 'asmi bhOh' are rendered. Regards, Kalyanaraman. ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail From mahadevasiva at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Sep 19 01:26:46 1998 From: mahadevasiva at HOTMAIL.COM (S Krishna) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 18:26:46 -0700 Subject: Indus Script -- sort of far off the point now Message-ID: <161227041395.23782.16410745661107503598.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Jonathan Silk says: >>Re: Krishna's comment >>In fact, Ingalls who edited the "zubhAzitaratnakOSa:" with Kosambi also ----------------- >>points this out and expresses his disagreement with the same.. Minor quibble: Kosambi edited the subhASitaratnakoSa (sic, correctly >romanized: in Skt. why capitalize O? Very sorry for the wrong transliteration...it should be "subhASitaratnakoSa"....didn't realise that this misspelling of mine was going to confuse things...Mea Culpa! << In his translation introduction Ingalls takes issuewith the Marxist interpretation Kosambi offered in his own intro, but asfar as I remember (I don't have time to reread it now), Kosambi does *not* "bash ... the QUALITY of Sanskrit poetry..."; rather he attacks the motives of the poets and their place in the socio-economic order.>> I beg to differ from your interpretation, in my humble opinion, the very low opinion that Kosambi seems to have had of the quality of this collection is alluded to by Ingalls in the preface to the book (page X of the introduction)..."On this subject I and Kosambi are on disagre ement, NOT ONLY because I judge the artistic merits of the poems to be much higher than he does, but because I feel a class theory......is an improper guide...". Thus it is evident that Ingalls differs from Kosambi on two SEPARATE issues, namely the artistic merit AND the inapplicability of class theory to the problem at hand. As for Kosambi's bashing of the quality( as opposed to the motives of the poets), we have on page (XLVI), : The samskrt stanza implies......, ample time to work out it's double and triple meanings" and quite a few other expressions in the same vein( too numerous to list) and finally, at the end of the chapter: "It is not surprising that this literature produced only one Kalidasa( and that with the early Gupta empire[note: please note time period that I refered to]}, tending towards the bombast of a Rajasekhara to subhASitas packed with intricate subtlities which suffocate the sense". I therefore believe that Kosambi despised not only the motives, social class that the poets belonged to but also the quality of the poetry itself.......(Note: these are the references that I could hunt up on the spot from the introduction, the next few chapters i.e. Twilight of the Gods e.g. also has similar references as I understand them) <> Well, at the end of the introduction, Ingalls is compelled to make the following statements: "I trust that a difference between the editor and a co-editor....will in no way diminish the value of their joint efforts. Certainly, it has not weakened the bonds of their friendship"...Thus, while having major disagreements, they did manage to work on the text together and Ingalls also says that he will take up the problem in greater detail in chapter 8, which is unfortunately missing in the copy that I have now..... Regards, Krishna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From erpet at COMP.CZ Fri Sep 18 17:05:24 1998 From: erpet at COMP.CZ (Petr Mares) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 19:05:24 +0200 Subject: Indus Script Message-ID: <161227041381.23782.391034196590147019.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear People I found the Indus site very interesting and hope that the owner of this list will direct others to speak in a civilized way or take them off the list if they continue. Sincerely Petr From jonathan.silk at YALE.EDU Sat Sep 19 01:09:18 1998 From: jonathan.silk at YALE.EDU (jonathan silk) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 20:09:18 -0500 Subject: Indus Script -- sort of far off the point now In-Reply-To: <19980918212052.28587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <161227041391.23782.5263466968687646897.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Re: Krishna's comment >3. Rajaram refers to Kosambi's work and the class theory etc etc... >Where does Kosambi use class theory to justify Aryan invasion or >migration? AFAIK, he uses the "class theory" to bash and beat up >the quality of Samskrt poetry written in the 6th-12th centuries.. >In fact, Ingalls who edited the "zubhAzitaratnakOSa:" with Kosambi also >points this out and expresses his disagreement with the same.. Minor quibble: Kosambi edited the subhASitaratnakoSa (sic, correctly romanized: in Skt. why capitalize O? I can't understand that? Except prosodically, it cannot be short ever...) along with V V Gokhale. Ingalls translated the text. In his translation introduction Ingalls takes issue with the Marxist interpretation Kosambi offered in his own intro, but as far as I remember (I don't have time to reread it now), Kosambi does *not* "bash ... the QUALITY of Sanskrit poetry..."; rather he attacks the motives of the poets and their place in the socio-economic order. I have to presume that if he did not share with Ingalls and others an appreciation for the quality of the poetry, he would not have worked on it. Where they differ, as I have understood it, is that Ingalls is willing, or feels compelled, to read the poetry as poetry, and Kosambi insists on understanding it (as much else he wrote about) within some Marxist dialectic. But perhaps my understanding or my memory of this debate is flawed? Jonathan SILK jonathan.silk at yale.edu From thillaud at UNICE.FR Sat Sep 19 07:55:00 1998 From: thillaud at UNICE.FR (Dominique.Thillaud) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 09:55:00 +0200 Subject: Indus Script Message-ID: <161227041402.23782.17530019112107841934.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I apologize for my excessive reaction and I regret sending it on the list, blinded by a momentary anger. Dominique Dominique THILLAUD Universite' de Nice Sophia-Antipolis, France From sreeni at KTP.UNI-PADERBORN.DE Sat Sep 19 12:28:02 1998 From: sreeni at KTP.UNI-PADERBORN.DE (Sreenivas Paruchuri) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 14:28:02 +0200 Subject: DDK (Re: Indus Script) In-Reply-To: <19980918212052.28587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <161227041397.23782.13816761282880810302.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >> S Krishna wrote: > oneself in the same category of people as Jacobi et al...To suggest that > Georg Feuerstein and JAcobi are "co-workers" is obviously > insulting to the later..... I couldn't find anything on above lines. any help? > 2. Rajaram claims that Jacobi the mathematician was influenced by Vedic > mathematics...Has anybody seen this elsewhere? I've read about the life I thought he was refering to the German Indologist (/Philologist) Hermann Jacobi!? > Where does Kosambi use class theory to justify Aryan invasion or Thats my understanding too! Aside, JL Masson while dedicating his _bhaasa's avimaarka (translation)_ to DDK mentions that they had different opinions on the quality of class. Sanskrit poetry, but that never detered their relations. While Kosambi's name came up let me ask something. are there any comprehensive, critical reviews of his Indological work; esp. published in the last 20 years? I have all the comm. volumes produced in his honour, which have -no surprise- a lot of praise for him. Apart from, I came across only two essays critically looking at his work: 1. Prof. Robert Goldman in _Marxist Influences and south Asian Literature_, Carlo Coppola (Ed), Occasional paper ; 23, Asian Studies Center, Michigan State Univ., East Lansing, 1974 and 2. Prof. Romila Thapar in _Interpreting early India_ (a collection of essays), OUP, Delhi, 1992. Regards, Sreenivas From emstern at NNI.COM Sat Sep 19 19:17:56 1998 From: emstern at NNI.COM (Elliot Stern) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 15:17:56 -0400 Subject: Indus Script -- sort of far off the point now In-Reply-To: <19980919012646.3165.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <161227041398.23782.7650444480441395992.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> S. Krishna replied to Jonathan Silk: >Jonathan Silk says: > >>>Re: Krishna's comment > .... > ><< In his translation introduction Ingalls takes issuewith the Marxist >interpretation Kosambi offered in his own intro, but asfar as I remember >(I don't have time to reread it now), Kosambi does *not* >"bash ... the QUALITY of Sanskrit poetry..."; rather he attacks the >motives of the poets and their place in the socio-economic order.>> > > >I beg to differ from your interpretation, in my humble opinion, the >very low opinion that Kosambi seems to have had of the quality of this >collection is alluded to by Ingalls in the preface to the book (page >X of the introduction)..."On this subject I and Kosambi are on disagre >ement, NOT ONLY because I judge the artistic merits of the poems to >be much higher than he does, but because I feel a class theory......is >an improper guide...". > > > > Thus it is evident that Ingalls differs from Kosambi on two SEPARATE >issues, namely the artistic merit AND the inapplicability of class >theory to the problem at hand. > > As for Kosambi's bashing of the quality( as opposed to the motives of >the poets), we have on page (XLVI), : The samskrt stanza implies......, >ample time to work out it's double and triple meanings" > >and quite a few other expressions in the same vein( too numerous to >list) and finally, at the end of the chapter: > >"It is not surprising that this literature produced only one Kalidasa( >and that with the early Gupta empire[note: please note time period that >I refered to]}, tending towards the bombast of a Rajasekhara to >subhASitas packed with intricate subtlities which suffocate the sense". > >I therefore believe that Kosambi despised not only the motives, social >class that the poets belonged to but also the quality of the poetry >itself.......(Note: these are the references that I could hunt up on the >spot from the introduction, the next few chapters i.e. Twilight of the >Gods e.g. also has similar references as I understand them) > > > ><appreciation for the quality of the poetry, he would not have worked on >it. But perhaps my understanding or my memory of this debate is >flawed?>> > > Well, at the end of the introduction, Ingalls is compelled to make the >following statements: "I trust that a difference between the editor and >a co-editor....will in no way diminish the value of their joint efforts. >Certainly, it has not weakened the bonds of their >friendship"...Thus, while having major disagreements, they did manage to >work on the text together and Ingalls also says that he will take up the >problem in greater detail in chapter 8, which is unfortunately missing >in the copy that I have now..... > >Regards, >Krishna D.D. Kosambi did not *bash* the artistic merit of the verses in the collection. Here is the final paragraph of section 8 of his introduction to the edition: "If these authors dealt with no major problem of the individual spirit, if they strove neither to burn with a hard gem-like flame nor to free humanity from any of the shackles man has imposed upon himself in making his own history, time has exacted full penalty for the failrue. Most of their works and all their biography have been gathered to an oblivion that makes future restoration extremely doubtful. The poetry strive to be and is, at best, exquisite rather than great. Yet, though the voice be thin, it is clear. The field might be limited as to objectives, vision, or endeavor, but excess is rare. The poets speak across the centuries in refined musical tones bearing a soft but indelible charm, visualising an elegant life. The dominant ideal, frankly expressed, is tasteful though not placid lovemaking in luxury -- without vice, greed, brutal lust after blood, bourgeois concentration upon money-breeding profit. It is only fitting that their names and verses should not altogether be forgotten." Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 USA telephone: 215 747 6204 From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO Sat Sep 19 21:22:53 1998 From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 21:22:53 +0000 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227041400.23782.7687555928729918966.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of the net! I would like to thank those of you that responded to my inquiry about discussion concerning S. R. Rao's attempt at the Indus script problem! Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Dr. art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo Norway Phone/Fax: +47 22 32 12 19 Email: lmfosse at online.no From kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET Sun Sep 20 17:12:07 1998 From: kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET (Dr.S.Kalyanaraman) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 10:12:07 -0700 Subject: Sarasvati Sindhu Civilization Monographs Message-ID: <161227041408.23782.1895595487294858743.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, I have been asked to provide the compendia of arguments at the web in monograph format. The monographs in pdf format, together with pictorials, extensive references and bibliographies are kept for view, zoom, download, print (as desired) at: (http://sarasvati.simplenet.com): Monographs on Sarasvati-Sindhu Civilization LOCUS, ARCHAEOLOGY, SOMA AND RIGVEDA: Sarasvati River (543k) Soma (1256k) India (Meluhha) and the Region (10320k) TECHNOLOGY AND WARFARE Bronze-age Weapons (5969k) Bronze-age Metallurgy (638k) Sea-/Land-Transport and Horse (945k) LANGUAGE AND DECIPHERMENT Indian Hieroglyphic Dictionary (1441k) Decipherment method (249k) Device: lathe/portable furnace (287k) Indic Linguistic Area ca. 3000 BC (8045k) Mitanni-Indic (1489k) Bibliography (45k) Regards, Kalyanaraman ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail From emstern at NNI.COM Sun Sep 20 14:16:04 1998 From: emstern at NNI.COM (Elliot Stern) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 10:16:04 -0400 Subject: Query: unknown quantities Message-ID: <161227041404.23782.6247408206965486476.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> My twelve year old son brought home a math assignment on Friday that involves "ancient Hindu" mathematics. I have not been able to help him, as my knowledge of this field is limited, as are the resources available at home. The question is: What notation did ancient Greek and ancient Hindu mathematicians use for unknown quantities? I have taken this to refer to such unknown quantities as we might indicate by x, y, and z, or other letters in such expressions as 2x = 4. The Encyclopedia Britannica article "History of Mathematics" mentions Diophantus of Alexandria (lived some time between 2nd century BC and 3rd century AD) as having used a figure resembling the Roman letter S as the unknown quantity, but does not mention if Indian mathematicians used any such figures. Secondary sources at home that treat Indian mathematics in any way do not treat this matter. Rapid and superficial perusal of the few Sanskrit mathematical texts I have suggests to me that there may be no figurative or symbolic notation, but I would welcome any informed answer, so that I can help my son answer his question. Thank you in advance. Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 USA telephone: 215 747 6204 From sohum at MS.UKY.EDU Sun Sep 20 15:24:08 1998 From: sohum at MS.UKY.EDU (Avinash Sathaye) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 11:24:08 -0400 Subject: Query: unknown quantities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041406.23782.11409616270315651523.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am not sure about the Greek formaliasm (without consulting more books) but I know the Indian systems. They used words like "yaavat" "taavat" or names of various colors - the "varNaaH". Since the word "varNa" also denotes a symbol or letter, it is consistent to use appropriate letters in place of whole words. Thus "yaa" (for "yaavat") or "pii" for "piita", "nii" for "niila" etc. were common. One useful source is Cajori. He has a good book on history as well as the history of notations. The Sanskrit texts of Bhaskaracharya would be a good source for Indian notation. "Elliot Stern said " || ||My twelve year old son brought home a math assignment on Friday that ||involves "ancient Hindu" mathematics. I have not been able to help him, as ||my knowledge of this field is limited, as are the resources available at ||home. || ||The question is: What notation did ancient Greek and ancient Hindu ||mathematicians use for unknown quantities? I have taken this to refer to ||such unknown quantities as we might indicate by x, y, and z, or other ||letters in such expressions as 2x = 4. || ||The Encyclopedia Britannica article "History of Mathematics" mentions ||Diophantus of Alexandria (lived some time between 2nd century BC and 3rd ||century AD) as having used a figure resembling the Roman letter S as the ||unknown quantity, but does not mention if Indian mathematicians used any ||such figures. Secondary sources at home that treat Indian mathematics in ||any way do not treat this matter. Rapid and superficial perusal of the few ||Sanskrit mathematical texts I have suggests to me that there may be no ||figurative or symbolic notation, but I would welcome any informed answer, ||so that I can help my son answer his question. || -- |Avinash Sathaye Phone:(606)277-0130(Home), (606)257-8832(Office) | And now, the next thought is from our CPU ... >>>>>>>>>>>> Commitment, n.: Commitment can be illustrated by a breakfast of ham and eggs. The chicken was involved, the pig was committed. From hart at POLBOX.COM Sun Sep 20 18:43:43 1998 From: hart at POLBOX.COM (Artur Karp) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 20:43:43 +0200 Subject: Query: unknown quantities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041410.23782.17041592261988691088.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 10:16 20.09.98 -0400, you wrote: >My twelve year old son brought home a math assignment on Friday that >involves "ancient Hindu" mathematics. I have not been able to help him, as >my knowledge of this field is limited, as are the resources available at >home. > >The question is: What notation did ancient Greek and ancient Hindu >mathematicians use for unknown quantities? I have taken this to refer to >such unknown quantities as we might indicate by x, y, and z, or other >letters in such expressions as 2x = 4. > >The Encyclopedia Britannica article "History of Mathematics" mentions >Diophantus of Alexandria (lived some time between 2nd century BC and 3rd >century AD) as having used a figure resembling the Roman letter S as the >unknown quantity, but does not mention if Indian mathematicians used any >such figures. Secondary sources at home that treat Indian mathematics in >any way do not treat this matter. Rapid and superficial perusal of the few >Sanskrit mathematical texts I have suggests to me that there may be no >figurative or symbolic notation, but I would welcome any informed answer, >so that I can help my son answer his question. > >Thank you in advance. > > >Elliot M. Stern >552 South 48th Street >Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 >USA > >telephone: 215 747 6204 > -------------------------------------------------- S.N. Sen in "A Concise History of Science in India" [Chapter "Mathematics"; New Delhi 1971; pp. 189-200] writes on the matter: "... Various terms for the unknown quantity are met with in the Hindu mathematical literature, e.g. yavat-tavat, yadrccha, vanccha, varna, kamika, gulika and avyakta. ...For the equations the various technical terms used were sama-karana, sami-karana, sadrsi-karana, etc. The Sthananga-sutra classifies them according to the powers of unknown quantity into the following: the simple (yavat-tavat), the quadratic (varga), the cubic (ghana) and the biquadratic (varga-varga)... ...For writing algebraic equations it is necessary to use some kind of symbols for the unknown quantities, symbols of operations, powers and roots. For unknown quantities we have noticed the practice of using a symbol for zero or vacant place in the Bakhshali MS. The use of the letters of the alphabet is strongly indicated by the use of the word varna (letters of the alphabet). Various colour names, e.g. kalaka (black), nilaka (blue), pita (yellow), lohita (red), or abbreviations of the names of precious gems, e.g. ma (for manikya, ruby), ni (for indra-nila, sapphire), mu (for mukta-phala, pearl), etc., served this purpose..." Hoping it helps, Artur Karp ----------------- [ REKLAMA / ADVERTISEMENT ] ----------------- NAJTANSZE serwery wirtualne 50 MB!!! www.twojafirma.com.pl E-mail 10 MB tez mamy TANIO! sprawdz! http://www.virgo.com.pl --------------------------------------------------------------- From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Sun Sep 20 23:23:04 1998 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 98 00:23:04 +0100 Subject: Indus Script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041413.23782.1954200323502302129.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you, Dominique, for your apology. We all get furious sometimes, perfectly human. But it is sometimes too easy to press "send". It can be salutary to remember that our INDOLOGY group is about six hundred souls. --- Dominik Wujastyk http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/ From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Sun Sep 20 23:34:11 1998 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 98 00:34:11 +0100 Subject: DDK (Re: Indus Script) In-Reply-To: <199809191228.OAA03788@ktpsp> Message-ID: <161227041415.23782.18174062938056301343.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Sreenivas Paruchuri wrote: > > 2. Rajaram claims that Jacobi the mathematician was influenced by Vedic > > mathematics...Has anybody seen this elsewhere? I've read about the life > > I thought he was refering to the German Indologist (/Philologist) Hermann > Jacobi!? It seems likely that Rajaram is confusing his Hermans. Herman Grassmann (1809-77). The latter was a very fine mathematician, but turned to Vedic studies apparently in disgust when his substantial mathematical contributions were not recognized. (They were appreciated posthumously.) It would not be correct to say that Grassman's mathematics was influenced by his Vedic studies. --- Dominik Wujastyk http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/ From hdehejia at CCS.CARLETON.CA Mon Sep 21 12:40:03 1998 From: hdehejia at CCS.CARLETON.CA (Harsha V. Dehejia) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 98 08:40:03 -0400 Subject: Shangar Message-ID: <161227041417.23782.3726090568671360412.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists: I am researching vernacular words for adornment in Indian languages. The Sanskrit word shingar means both romantic love and adornment. In Gujarati the words are split and the word shangar (an apabrahmsa from the original Sanskrit) means adornment especially of a woman. I would be grateful if anyone can let me know the equivalent of the Gujarati "shangar" in other languages. Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia Professor of Religion Carleton University, Ottawa, ON. Canada. hdehejia at ccs.carleton.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emstern at NNI.COM Mon Sep 21 12:54:23 1998 From: emstern at NNI.COM (Elliot Stern) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 98 08:54:23 -0400 Subject: Close Query: unknown quantities Message-ID: <161227041420.23782.1551362121531145476.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would like to thank Avinash Sathaye, Birgit Kellner, and Artur Karp for their informative and suggestive responses to my query. With these, my son will have excellent material for answering the assignment question. Please consider this query closed. Thank you. Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 USA telephone: 215 747 6204 From am9s at VIRGINIA.EDU Mon Sep 21 17:24:41 1998 From: am9s at VIRGINIA.EDU (Anne Monius) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 98 13:24:41 -0400 Subject: job announcement Message-ID: <161227041422.23782.2644159173391933486.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ANNOUNCEMENT OF POSITION IN SOUTH ASIAN LITERATURE FOR SPRING 1999 Applications are invited for a Spring 1999 position (rank to be determined) in South Asian Literature (translated or originally composed in English) in the Division of Asian and Middle Eastern Languages and Cultures at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville. Responsibilities are to teach: 1) an undergraduate survey course on South Asian Literature and 2) a seminar on some aspect of South Asian Literature. Applications from graduate students who are at the ABD level or those holding the Ph.D. are welcome. Salary commensurate with experience. Send curriculum vitae and the names of at least two references to: Professor Brantly Womack, Chair, Asian and Middle Eastern Languages and Cultures, University of Virginia, B27 Cabell Hall, Charlottesville, VA 22903. Further information can be obtained by telephoning 804-924-8815. Faxes can be sent to 804-924-6977. The address for electronic mail is southasia at virginia.edu. Deadline for applications is October 22, 1998. The University of Virginia is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer. PLEASE POST AND CIRCULATE From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Sep 21 22:02:10 1998 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 98 23:02:10 +0100 Subject: [Announcement] Lecture at Columbia Message-ID: <161227041424.23782.18409798163085127474.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:00:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Nancy Braxton To: dhirc at columbia.edu Notice: On Monday, October 5, at 2:00 pm, Dr. Mary McGee, Associate Professor of Classical Hinduism at Columbia University, will give a talk on "Making War, Making Peacce: Strategies from Hindu Texts on Polity and Kingship", in the context of the University Seminar on Religion and Conflict. For location, please contact Emily at 854-5623. From sns at IX.NETCOM.COM Tue Sep 22 13:21:21 1998 From: sns at IX.NETCOM.COM (SNS) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 98 08:21:21 -0500 Subject: DDK (Re: Indus Script) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041433.23782.421850813618886912.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Sreenivas Paruchuri asked ... >While Kosambi's name came up let me ask something. are there any >comprehensive, critical reviews of his Indological work; esp. published >in the last 20 years? You might want to lookup Frontlines webpage (Aug15th issue)at http://www.indiaserver.com/frontline/ where Comrade Thapar gives her spin on Indian history - she writes ".....The inclusion of history as a social science has resulted from the changes in the discipline of history and that has been a major contribution of historians from the 1950s. It began with the seminal work of D.D.Kosambi. The emphasis given by Marxism to the economy and to social stratification is in itself an interdisciplinary process drawing on other social sciences. This has been developed further in at least three themes of research: the formation of states was once seen as resulting from conquest or from class confrontation....". This article is in response to a written questionaire, so Comrade Thapar must have spent some time and given thought to what she was saying. Subrahmanya From hdehejia at CCS.CARLETON.CA Tue Sep 22 13:12:57 1998 From: hdehejia at CCS.CARLETON.CA (Harsha V. Dehejia) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 98 09:12:57 -0400 Subject: Shangar Message-ID: <161227041430.23782.12893465626226233585.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks for those who responded to my request for non-Sanskrit wrods for adornment (Gujarati shaNgAr). Does anyone know the list of the traditional 16 adornments of an Indian woman? Many thanks. Harsha V. Dehejia Professor of Religion Carelton University, Ottawa. ON. Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roheko at T-ONLINE.DE Tue Sep 22 11:55:48 1998 From: roheko at T-ONLINE.DE (Rolf Koch) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 98 13:55:48 +0200 Subject: Shangar Message-ID: <161227041425.23782.15190405553375957448.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Probably the Sanskrit root is zRNga "horn" Harsha V. Dehejia wrote: > Dear Indologists: I am researching vernacular words for adornment in > Indian languages. The Sanskrit word shingar means both romantic love > and adornment. In Gujarati the words are split and the word shangar > (an apabrahmsa from the original Sanskrit) means adornment especially > of a woman. I would be grateful if anyone can let me know the > equivalent of the Gujarati "shangar" in other languages. Prof. Harsha > V. DehejiaProfessor of ReligionCarleton University, Ottawa, ON. > Canada.hdehejia at ccs.carleton.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r.l.schmidt at EAST.UIO.NO Tue Sep 22 13:53:47 1998 From: r.l.schmidt at EAST.UIO.NO (Ruth Laila Schmidt) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 98 14:53:47 +0100 Subject: Shangar In-Reply-To: <36079043.CF9057BD@t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227041428.23782.417294018668125363.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Nepali siMgaara, 'decoration, ornamentation (of women)'. > >Harsha V. Dehejia wrote: > > Dear Indologists: I am researching vernacular words for adornment in >Indian languages. The Sanskrit word shingar means both romantic love and >adornment. In Gujarati the words are split and the word shangar (an >apabrahmsa from the original Sanskrit) means adornment especially of a >woman. I would be grateful if anyone can let me know the equivalent of the >Gujarati "shangar" in other languages. Prof. Harsha V. DehejiaProfessor of >ReligionCarleton University, Ottawa, ON. Canada.hdehejia at ccs.carleton.ca > > *********************************************** Ruth Laila Schmidt Dept of East European and Oriental Studies University of Oslo P.O. Box 1030 Blindern N-0315 Oslo, Norway Phone: (47) 22 85 55 86 Fax: (47) 22 85 41 40 Email: r.l.schmidt at east.uio.no From sreeni at KTP.UNI-PADERBORN.DE Tue Sep 22 14:15:59 1998 From: sreeni at KTP.UNI-PADERBORN.DE (Sreenivas Paruchuri) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 98 16:15:59 +0200 Subject: Brittle legacy: Ancient palm-leaf mss are in danger of crumbling Message-ID: <161227041434.23782.15676145026080964236.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> http://www.india-today.com/itoday/28091998/offtrack.html From gkb at ICARUS.UOM.AC.MU Tue Sep 22 15:02:50 1998 From: gkb at ICARUS.UOM.AC.MU (Girish Beeharry) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 98 19:02:50 +0400 Subject: Query Message-ID: <161227041436.23782.17786379742431324260.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, As you may know the navaraatrii (religious ceremonies for goddess durgaa) has started with the new moon. I have been looking at some of the available texts for the durgaasaptashaTii (or chaNDii) and I am bewildered by the variants in the shlokas. As example, I have seen three different 'versions' of both the argalaastotra and the kiilakamantra! I haven't looked at the kavacha or the text proper in any detail yet. Metrically, the differing shlokas seem ok. My rather naive questions are: Is this 'normal'? Has anyone who has worked with the mss seen many variants? Is there any critical edition of the text? Many thanks beforehand for your help. Bye, Girish Kumar Beeharry From rockland at DEL2.VSNL.NET.IN Tue Sep 22 20:24:09 1998 From: rockland at DEL2.VSNL.NET.IN (ROCKLAND) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 01:54:09 +0530 Subject: Web Site Hosting Message-ID: <161227041438.23782.13072529618347529985.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> JTA Communications proudly announces Web Hosting at never before prices of USD 12/month for 5 MB of web space supported by dedicated T3 Lines and you can even have your own domain name by paying an additional One Time Set-up fees of USD 30. You may visit our website: http://www.jtaonline.com for details and to know more about us! Thanks All enquiries may please not be posted to this list and be forwarded to: marketing at jtaonline.com From Royce.Wiles at ANU.EDU.AU Tue Sep 22 22:11:39 1998 From: Royce.Wiles at ANU.EDU.AU (Royce Wiles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 08:11:39 +1000 Subject: Shangar Message-ID: <161227041441.23782.4748355156941041570.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks for those who responded to my request for non-Sanskrit wrods for adornment (Gujarati shaNgAr). Does anyone know the list of the traditional 16 adornments of an Indian woman? Have you consulted B. J. Sandesara's study of these terms in medieval Gujarati literature? It is included in his two volume Varnaka-samuccaya : samskrtika ane sahityika itihasa mate mahatvana padyanukari gadyavarnakono samuccaya. Vadodara : Maharaja Sayajirava Visvavidyalaya, 1956?59. 2 v. (Pracina Gurjara granthamala ; 4, 8). v. 1 has an appendix on vastra and abharana v. 2 has a chapter discussing these (chapter 3) From mm383 at COLUMBIA.EDU Wed Sep 23 16:21:17 1998 From: mm383 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Mary McGee) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 12:21:17 -0400 Subject: Query: unknown quantities (fwd) Message-ID: <161227041443.23782.412887874159945627.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Kim Plofker at Brown provided this response to the recent posting regarding mathematical texts. I forward it as another piece of information on this matter. Mary McGee ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:36:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Plofker To: Mary McGee Subject: Re: Query: unknown quantities (fwd) Mathematical texts generally use verbal abbreviations for unknown quantities (e.g., "ya" for the first syllable of "yavat"). I've read that different colors of ink were used for different variables (hence, I suppose, Bhaskara's terms "ekavarna" and "anekavarna" for equations in one or more unknowns, respectively), but I've never seen this used. Look in Datta & Singh's _History of Hindu Mathematics_ or Hayashi's _The Bakhshali Manuscript_ for detailed discussions. Kim From smittal at RELIGION.UFL.EDU Wed Sep 23 17:51:04 1998 From: smittal at RELIGION.UFL.EDU (Sushil Mittal) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 13:51:04 -0400 Subject: Gombrich In-Reply-To: <01BDE728.B84B69A0@ti34a22-0099.dialup.online.no> Message-ID: <161227041449.23782.14985913358465496792.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> richard.gombrich at balliol.ox.ac.uk At 07:31 PM 9/23/98 +-200, you wrote: >Dear members of the Net: > >Do any of you have Gombrich's snailmail/email address? > >Best regards, > >Lars Martin Fosse > >Dr. art. Lars Martin Fosse >Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, >0674 Oslo >Norway >Phone/Fax: +47 22 32 12 19 >Email: lmfosse at online.no > > Dr Sushil Mittal University of Florida Department of Religion 125 Dauer Hall, PO Box 117410 Gainesville, Florida 32611-7410 Telephone (352) 392-1625 Telefax (352) 392-7395 E-mail smittal at religion.ufl.edu IJHS Homepage http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/ijhs/ From patte at MATH-INFO.UNIV-PARIS5.FR Wed Sep 23 17:03:35 1998 From: patte at MATH-INFO.UNIV-PARIS5.FR (Francois Patte) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 19:03:35 +0200 Subject: Query: unknown quantities (fwd) Message-ID: <161227041444.23782.13780984522995340641.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Mary McGee wrote: > Kim Plofker at Brown provided this response to the recent posting > regarding mathematical texts. I forward it as another piece of > information on this matter. > > Mary McGee > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:36:22 -0400 (EDT) > From: Kim Plofker > To: Mary McGee > Subject: Re: Query: unknown quantities (fwd) > > Mathematical texts generally use verbal abbreviations for unknown quantities > (e.g., "ya" for the first syllable of "yavat"). I've read that different > colors of ink were used for different variables (hence, I suppose, Bhaskara's > terms "ekavarna" and "anekavarna" for equations in one or more unknowns, > respectively), but I've never seen this used. Look in Datta & Singh's > _History of Hindu Mathematics_ or Hayashi's _The Bakhshali Manuscript_ for > detailed discussions. > > Kim Here is the stanza from Bhaskara's bijaganitam: yaavattaavatkaalako niilako.anyo var.na.h piito lohita"scaitadaadyaa.h| avyaktaanaa.m kalpitaa maanasa.mj~naastatsa.mkhyaana.m kartumaacaaryavaryai.h|| black, blue, yellow, red are the first names of unknown quantities that we use to note: x, y, z, t ... To calculate there is a formalism: yaa 3 ruu 5 means: 3x + 5 (ruu stands for ruupa.m: "integer") yaava 5 yaa 3 ruu 2 means: 5x^2 + 3x + 2 (va stands for varga.h: square) This can be more sophisticated: yaava 2 kaava 3 niiva 2 yaakaabhaa 23 yaaniibhaa 12 kaaniibhaa 6 yaa 2 kaa 9 nii 5 ruu 7 2x^2 + 3y^2 + 2z^2 + 23xy + 12 xz + 6 yz + 6x + 9y + 5z + 7 bhaa, in yaakaabhaa stands for bhaavita.m: "product" There is also a minus sign: a dot over the number, but I don't know how to produce it with my keyboard! -- Fran?ois Patte. UFR de math?matiques et informatique. 45 rue des St P?res. 75270 Paris Cedex 06 Tel: 01 44 55 35 59 -- Fax: 01 44 55 35 35 http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO Wed Sep 23 19:31:06 1998 From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 19:31:06 +0000 Subject: Gombrich Message-ID: <161227041447.23782.1731652703832462051.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of the Net: Do any of you have Gombrich's snailmail/email address? Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Dr. art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo Norway Phone/Fax: +47 22 32 12 19 Email: lmfosse at online.no From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO Wed Sep 23 22:11:26 1998 From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 22:11:26 +0000 Subject: SV: Gombrich Message-ID: <161227041452.23782.11174402761767003843.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------- Fra: Sushil Mittal[SMTP:smittal at RELIGION.UFL.EDU] Svar til: Indology Sendt: 23. september 1998 19:51 Til: INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK Emne: Re: Gombrich richard.gombrich at balliol.ox.ac.uk Thank you! Lars Martin Dr. art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 22 32 12 19 Email: lmfosse at online.no -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment.bin Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1516 bytes Desc: not available URL: From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Sep 24 13:08:22 1998 From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 06:08:22 -0700 Subject: Retroflex sounds Message-ID: <161227041456.23782.10465440700968110573.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In the Out-of-India model/Indigenous Aryans theory, how are the "systemic" Sanskrit retroflexes lost as Sanskrit spreads from India to Iran and further Westward? What is OOI school's position? In Sanskrit inscriptions found in Southeast Asia, we still find retroflexion. N. Ganesan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Thu Sep 24 09:04:52 1998 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 10:04:52 +0100 Subject: [Apology to members] Was: Web Site Hosting In-Reply-To: <36080768.5CE472C1@jtaonline.com> Message-ID: <161227041454.23782.10447502790295856858.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I apologise to INDOLOGY members for the commercial advertising sent to the list by ROCKLAND apparently representing an insensitive and unscrupulous company called JTA Communications The terms and conditions of the INDOLOGY list are well-known to everyone, and clearly explained in our documentation. It is an academic list for scholarly exchanges. The internet is saturated with commercialism and profit-seeking activities: our little group is a haven of academic and intellectual activity, aimed only at nurturing the growth of knowledge concerning classical India. The above company has crudely taken advantage of our scholarly list, by subscribing under false pretences in order to promote its self-interest through inappropriate advertising. I must ask you whether you would consider it wise to have any contact with such a company, especially in any financial transaction. Please spread this warning to anyone you know who might have been considering using the services of JTA Communications. All the best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk, FAX: +44 171 611 8545 Wellcome Institute for URL: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/ the History of Medicine, Email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Wellcome Trust, 183 Euston Road, Trust URL: http://www.wellcome.ac.uk London NW1 2BE, England. From am9s at VIRGINIA.EDU Thu Sep 24 15:43:08 1998 From: am9s at VIRGINIA.EDU (Anne Monius) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 11:43:08 -0400 Subject: job announcement Message-ID: <161227041458.23782.17960311643169455030.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Art Historian: Himalayan Art The University of Virginia has an opening for a one-year appointment in Himalayan art history for 1999-2000. The person will be expected to teach undergraduate surveys, an undergrad seminar, and probably a graduate seminar. We expect that the successful candidate will give a public lecture, under either departmental or Center for South Asian Studies sponsorship. Interested applicants are invited to send a letter of application, a CV, and three letters of reference to L. O. Goedde, Chair, McIntire Department of Art, Fayerweather Hall, University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA 22903. ABDs and recent PhDs are invited to apply. Women and minorities are invited to apply. The deadline is January 15, 1999. The University of Virginia is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer. From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Thu Sep 24 17:09:18 1998 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 18:09:18 +0100 Subject: [Apology to members] Was: Web Site Hosting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041460.23782.10048661023000669564.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Further to the ROCKLAND incident, it now appears that the perpetrator joined INDOLOGY, posted the spam, and then unsubscribed. This is more callous than we had at first realized, and has resulted in the perp. being banned from any future membership of the list. The listserv operators are pursuing this person, with a view to instigating punitive procedures. I and the Liverpool support team take this sort of misuse of the list rather seriously. All the best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk, FAX: +44 171 611 8545 Wellcome Institute for URL: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/ the History of Medicine, Email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Wellcome Trust, 183 Euston Road, Trust URL: http://www.wellcome.ac.uk London NW1 2BE, England. From sns at IX.NETCOM.COM Fri Sep 25 16:00:27 1998 From: sns at IX.NETCOM.COM (SNS) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 98 11:00:27 -0500 Subject: Search for the Sarasvati Message-ID: <161227041470.23782.13926132229471638989.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Search for the Sarasvati http://www.india-today.com/itoday/28091998/science.html From info at TICONSOLE.NL Fri Sep 25 10:00:32 1998 From: info at TICONSOLE.NL (T.I. Console) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 98 12:00:32 +0200 Subject: Address Staal Message-ID: <161227041465.23782.12489879128627314166.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Francois Voegeli asked for the address of Frits Staal. I don't have his electronic addresses, but I have his snail-mail address: Dr. J.F. Staal 3253 Brunell Drive Oakland CA 94602 U.S.A. tel. 530 3615 In case he stays in the Netherlands: Dr. J.F. Staal Oudezijds Voorburgwal 115 1012 EN Amsterdam tel. 020-6261510 Sandra van der Geer Leiden NL info at ticonsole.nl From srini_pichumani at MENTORG.COM Fri Sep 25 17:41:06 1998 From: srini_pichumani at MENTORG.COM (Srini Pichumani) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 98 13:41:06 -0400 Subject: Address of Prof. Staal Message-ID: <161227041472.23782.13764659102764971927.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I heard that Prof.Staal is on sabbatical in the Netherlands this fall and was given the following e-mail address: staal at rullett.leidenuniv.nl -Srini. Francois VOEGELI wrote: > Dear Members of the List, > > I am looking for the e-mail or fax number of Prof. Frits Staal. > In case he doesn't have either an e-mail or a fax, his snail mail > address would do. > Thanks in advance. > > -- > Francois Voegeli > Dept. of Indian Philosophy > Faculty of Letters > University of Kyoto - Japan From tcahill at CCAT.SAS.UPENN.EDU Fri Sep 25 20:40:25 1998 From: tcahill at CCAT.SAS.UPENN.EDU (Tim Cahill) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 98 16:40:25 -0400 Subject: Devi-mahatmya In-Reply-To: <360BD5B1.BE0FF32A@mentorg.com> Message-ID: <161227041475.23782.11094559407523448889.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In response to G.K. Beeharry's question relating to the textual tradition of the DM, Tom Coburn writes: There is no critical edition of the DM. I've waded through countless mss and popular editions, focusing more on the text than on the angas. But I've also written about the constitution of the text, the angas, and the commentaries in my Devi: The Crystallization of the Goddess Tradition and Encountering the Goddess. There remains lots of good work to do here, esp. on the commentaries. ------------ In addition, I'd like to note two sources with particular relevance, culled from Coburn's notes to ch. 5 of Encountering the Goddess: "The Markandeya Purana: Editions and Translations", Purana 3, #1 (Jan. 1961),pp. 38-45 and "An Interesting Variant in the Devi-Mahatmya", Purana 25 #2 (July 1983), pp. 236 -244?? Finally, note that in giving names and titles I dispense with diacritical conventions, hoping that we all can supply these in cases such as Ramayana, Markandeya Purana and the like. I urge others to consider following suit, since reading things like kRSNa tires my eyes. (Of course, for textual passages we have no choice...) best, Tim From fdv at OSK3.3WEB.NE.JP Fri Sep 25 08:11:41 1998 From: fdv at OSK3.3WEB.NE.JP (Francois VOEGELI) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 98 17:11:41 +0900 Subject: Address of Prof. Staal Message-ID: <161227041463.23782.15316618987572771005.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Members of the List, I am looking for the e-mail or fax number of Prof. Frits Staal. In case he doesn't have either an e-mail or a fax, his snail mail address would do. Thanks in advance. -- Francois Voegeli Dept. of Indian Philosophy Faculty of Letters University of Kyoto - Japan From fujii at ZINBUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP Fri Sep 25 10:46:35 1998 From: fujii at ZINBUN.KYOTO-U.AC.JP (Masato FUJII) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 98 19:46:35 +0900 Subject: Address of Prof. Staal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041467.23782.17002673747368371366.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The e-mail address and the fax number of Prof. F. Staal is: jfstaal at socrates.berkeley.edu Fax (510) 530-6464 With best wishes, Masato FUJII ====================================================== Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University E-mail: fujii at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Phone: +81-75-753-6949 Fax: +81-75-753-6903 ====================================================== From: Francois VOEGELI Subject: Address of Prof. Staal Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:11:41 +0900 > Dear Members of the List, > > I am looking for the e-mail or fax number of Prof. Frits Staal. > In case he doesn't have either an e-mail or a fax, his snail mail > address would do. > Thanks in advance. > > -- > Francois Voegeli > Dept. of Indian Philosophy > Faculty of Letters > University of Kyoto - Japan > From info at TICONSOLE.NL Fri Sep 25 17:57:14 1998 From: info at TICONSOLE.NL (T.I. Console) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 98 19:57:14 +0200 Subject: Address of J.F. Staal Message-ID: <161227041473.23782.14357074407647165260.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Srini Pichumani wrote >I heard that Prof.Staal is on sabbatical in the Netherlands this fall >and was given the following e-mail address: > > staal at rullett.leidenuniv.nl Unfortunately, he misspelled the second word. The e-mail address is staal at rullet.leidenuniv.nl (thus, rullet instead of rullett) Sandra van der Geer Leiden The Netherlands info at ticonsole.nl From garzilli at SHORE.NET Sat Sep 26 20:26:13 1998 From: garzilli at SHORE.NET (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 98 16:26:13 -0400 Subject: Asiatica Association Message-ID: <161227041468.23782.4450711614482980860.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, In May 13, 1997 our e-journals, the *International Journal of Tantric Studies* and the *Journal of South Asia Women Studies* became part of the larger ASIATICA ASSOCIATION (http://www.asiatica.org/). We had to organize the journals into a structure which was able to manage our over 1,000 subscribers and 2,000 WWW readers per month. We also wanted to offer readers the possibility to contribute to the journals by writing sections of the journals themselves, and to the projects we have in mind: the NINA fonts for Devanagari, of which the first printable version is on our ftp server (ftp://ftp.shore.net/india/members/), and other short and long-term projects we are realizing such as the hard copy collection of our journals. The ASIATICA ASSOCIATION is a non-profit, non governmental, cultural association to promote and diffuse the study of Asian cultures. Please visit our page and find out our about our aims and purposes, our electronic and hard copy publications, and our projects. Contribute with your papers, reviews, announcements, news. Please do not visit anymore our old sites to read the IJTS and the JSAWS. Open http://www.asiatica.org/ Thank you, Enrica (garzilli at shore.net or garzilli at asiatica.org) -- Dr. Enrica Garzilli University of Perugia (ITALY) Istituto di Linguistica Piazza Morlacchi, 11 06123 Perugia Tel./Fax: +39-75-585 3755 (office) Editor-in-Chief, Intl. Journ. of Tantric Studies, Journal of S. Asia Women Studies htpp://www.asiatica.org/ ***************************************************************** From das at NETCOM.COM Mon Sep 28 02:56:59 1998 From: das at NETCOM.COM (Das Devaraj) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 98 19:56:59 -0700 Subject: Vegan diet Message-ID: <161227041477.23782.11232590813770241338.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> (This query may only be somewhat related to Indology.) I am a vegan living in CA, USA. (A vegan is a strict vegetarian, who does not even eat dairy products or honey.) As you can imagine, ordering food in restaurants take a long time for me :-) Onto my question. Recently, I was talking to a priest who had come to USA very recently. When he heard that I was vegan, I believe he asked me whether I was a "Palghat Iyer." Again at an Indian restaurant here, a waiter (who apparently came to US only 8 months ago) asked me whether I was a Palghat Iyer, hearing my vegan request. Is this something new Palghat Iyer's are starting to do in India? (I have been a vegan for ethical reasons for many years and nobody has asked me this particular question before). Also, are there any books or papers, which discusses in a factual manner, vegetarian diets or better yet vegan diets in India? das From kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET Mon Sep 28 16:28:02 1998 From: kalyan99 at NETSCAPE.NET (Dr.S.Kalyanaraman) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 09:28:02 -0700 Subject: [Devi-mahatmya] and writing diacriticals in ASCII Message-ID: <161227041496.23782.2804974536548420694.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Tim Cahill wrote: [snip]> Finally, note that in giving names and titles I dispense with diacritical> conventions, hoping that we all can supply these in cases such as> Ramayana, Markandeya Purana and the like. I urge others to consider> following suit, since reading things like kRSNa tires my eyes. (Of course,> for textual passages we have no choice...)> A comment on writing Indian scripts using email text. While Harvard and Kyodo have a joint convention using capitals for sounds such as N R S T... I have found a simpler method and less of a strain on the eyes. Following the earlier transliteration practices of affixing diacritical marks on tops of the english alphabet, I sugges the following simple rule (which I have used for the entire Indian Lexicon at the Sarasvati web): Affix the diacritical following the english alphabet. For example, A can be written as a_ S as s. z as s' N as n. T as t. R as r. A half-nasal Hindi haa:n as ha~_ Tamil ZH as r.. Best regards, Kalyanaraman ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail From beitel at GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU Mon Sep 28 14:21:01 1998 From: beitel at GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU (Alf Hiltebeitel) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 10:21:01 -0400 Subject: Drupada In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041487.23782.6526962188238909562.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On "Drupada," more or less in line with John Smith's note, see Madeleine Biardeau, "Etudes de mythologie hindoue: 4, bhakti et avatara," Bulletin de l'Ecole Francaise d'Extreme Orient 65 (1978), 241-53, and the "Compte rendu" of her 1978-79 seminars in the Annuaire de l'Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, vol. 87:153-55. A peg-leg seems a stretch. Alf Hiltebeitel Director, Human Sciences Program Columbian School Professor of Religion and Human Sciences The George Washington University Phillips Hall 412 202/ 994-4297 Fax: 202/ 994-7034 Department of Religion 202/ 994-6325 or 202/ 994-1674 Fax: 202/ 994-9379 On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, John Smith wrote: > On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Dominique.Thillaud wrote: > > > Dear list members, > > For which reason Drupada has such a name? Could be he a lame (a > > staff being the wooden leg)? More precisely, could be a link between > > Pancalas and pangu? Are the people of Pancalas a people of smithes? > > (smithes are frequently lame). > > In a same way, who is the God worshipped by smithes? > > I don't remember ever coming across any explanation of Drupada's name. But > in fact drupada- doesn't seem to be used to mean "staff" or "wooden leg" > -- apart from the Pancala king's name, the only meaning MW gives is > pillar/sacrificial post, with some Vedic refs. > > John Smith > > -- > Dr J. D. Smith * jds10 at cam.ac.uk > Faculty of Oriental Studies * Tel. 01223 335140 (Switchboard 01223 335106) > Sidgwick Avenue * Fax 01223 335110 > Cambridge CB3 9DA * http://bombay.oriental.cam.ac.uk/index.html > From fdv at OSK3.3WEB.NE.JP Mon Sep 28 03:02:36 1998 From: fdv at OSK3.3WEB.NE.JP (Francois VOEGELI) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 12:02:36 +0900 Subject: Many thanks for query Message-ID: <161227041479.23782.18427062166636364748.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Members of the List, Many thanks to all the people who answered my query about Prof. Staal's address. -- Francois Voegeli Dept. of Indian Philosophy Faculty of Letters University of Kyoto - Japan From alpana at LW1.VSNL.NET.IN Mon Sep 28 07:55:14 1998 From: alpana at LW1.VSNL.NET.IN (Sunil Lal) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 13:25:14 +0530 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <161227041490.23782.13773813606909925284.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear sir/Madam We introduce ourselves as creative visulaisers, designers and printers, known for the international quality print production. Ours is a Delhi based unit, functioning at Lucknow, under the name and style of ALPANA ARTS, as an extension of DORA GRAPHICS, New Delhi. At Delhi our work is executed on India's leading pre-press terminals through our dedicated team of creative visualisers, designers, photographers, copywriters and techncians who strive for quality, cost and stripulated deadlines. We undertake turnkey projects, right from conceptualisation to the final delivery. We handle jobs of any magnitute and produce print materials, conforming to the highest international standars be it Literatures, Catologues, Brochures, Annual Reports, Journals, News Letters, Posters, Conference Materials etc.. Please visit http://www.angelfire.com/sk/alpana/index.html to view few of our samples and to know little more about us. Thanking you Yours faithfully for ALPANA ARTS Sunil Kumar Lal Art Director From thillaud at UNICE.FR Mon Sep 28 12:46:13 1998 From: thillaud at UNICE.FR (Dominique.Thillaud) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 14:46:13 +0200 Subject: Drupada Message-ID: <161227041482.23782.7058426931042006347.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear list members, For which reason Drupada has such a name? Could be he a lame (a staff being the wooden leg)? More precisely, could be a link between Pancalas and pangu? Are the people of Pancalas a people of smithes? (smithes are frequently lame). In a same way, who is the God worshipped by smithes? Thanks in advance, Dominique Dominique THILLAUD Universite' de Nice Sophia-Antipolis, France From jds10 at CUS.CAM.AC.UK Mon Sep 28 14:17:05 1998 From: jds10 at CUS.CAM.AC.UK (John Smith) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 15:17:05 +0100 Subject: Drupada In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041484.23782.18232002373569760692.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Dominique.Thillaud wrote: > Dear list members, > For which reason Drupada has such a name? Could be he a lame (a > staff being the wooden leg)? More precisely, could be a link between > Pancalas and pangu? Are the people of Pancalas a people of smithes? > (smithes are frequently lame). > In a same way, who is the God worshipped by smithes? I don't remember ever coming across any explanation of Drupada's name. But in fact drupada- doesn't seem to be used to mean "staff" or "wooden leg" -- apart from the Pancala king's name, the only meaning MW gives is pillar/sacrificial post, with some Vedic refs. John Smith -- Dr J. D. Smith * jds10 at cam.ac.uk Faculty of Oriental Studies * Tel. 01223 335140 (Switchboard 01223 335106) Sidgwick Avenue * Fax 01223 335110 Cambridge CB3 9DA * http://bombay.oriental.cam.ac.uk/index.html From sumedh at CS.WUSTL.EDU Mon Sep 28 21:16:21 1998 From: sumedh at CS.WUSTL.EDU (Sumedh Mungee) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 16:16:21 -0500 Subject: Best computer for Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041500.23782.1412441009764805286.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello, I am an amateur, but in my brief experience, I have found Linux to be the best platform for this kind of work. The xdvng devanagari fonts allow me to browse devanagari websites without effort, the itrans package is excellent for creating new web pages. The Emacs editor also has an excellent support for composing, viewing and saving articles in Devanagari fonts. Unicode support in Linux is also pretty good. Linux is far more stable than any version of Windows I have used. I am using Redhat Linux v5.1, running on a Pentium-400. All of the above software was free, and I bought the operating system for about 50 bucks, but it can be downloaded via the Net for free also, from www.redhat.com. Let me know if you need any more information. ~sumedh Brian Akers writes: > Please post your responses to the list--I'm sure I'm not the only person in > this situation. > > I'm nursing a six-year-old Macintosh computer that is at the end of its useful > life. I am going to buy a new computer by January, 1999. While the Apple > Computer Corporation certainly seems to be coming back to life, I am undecided > whether to stick with the Mac or switch to Windows. > > What do members of this list feel is the best platform for multilingual > computing--esp. Indic languages and, most particularly, Sanskrit? > Who is doing the best job of implementing Unicode? > Which platform has the best Devanagari fonts? > Is WorldScript now a cutting-edge technology, average, or obsolete? > > Thank you all for your input. I am looking forward to reading your comments. > > Brian > > > -------------------- > Brian Dana Akers > www.pipeline.com/~sfauthor/ > sfauthor at aol.com From Sfauthor at AOL.COM Mon Sep 28 20:49:37 1998 From: Sfauthor at AOL.COM (Brian Akers) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 16:49:37 -0400 Subject: Best computer for Sanskrit? Message-ID: <161227041498.23782.12326170677954710743.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Please post your responses to the list--I'm sure I'm not the only person in this situation. I'm nursing a six-year-old Macintosh computer that is at the end of its useful life. I am going to buy a new computer by January, 1999. While the Apple Computer Corporation certainly seems to be coming back to life, I am undecided whether to stick with the Mac or switch to Windows. What do members of this list feel is the best platform for multilingual computing--esp. Indic languages and, most particularly, Sanskrit? Who is doing the best job of implementing Unicode? Which platform has the best Devanagari fonts? Is WorldScript now a cutting-edge technology, average, or obsolete? Thank you all for your input. I am looking forward to reading your comments. Brian -------------------- Brian Dana Akers www.pipeline.com/~sfauthor/ sfauthor at aol.com From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Sep 28 16:18:22 1998 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 17:18:22 +0100 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <360F40E2.E2A20D65@lw1.vsnl.net.in> Message-ID: <161227041493.23782.2022799343846646543.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, I apologise for yet another crude misuse of the academic INDOLOGY list. Some Delhi graphics company has used our academic list for personal advertisement and self-aggrandisement, in complete contradiction to the published purpose of this group. We exist for the promotion of scholarship on classical India only, and we are not a general forum for anything Indian, and above all not for anything commercial. I advise you never to use the company DORA GRAPHICS or ALPANA ARTS, since they are evidently careless of other peoples's interests, and ignorant of basic netiquette. Their behaviour in misusing our list for their own commercial purposes may well be duplicated in their dealings with individual clients. Please also warn all your colleagues about these companies. Our list stands at ca. 600 members, so we should be able to reach quite a lot of people. I am taking steps to block the company from further use of the list forever, and to pursue them through their service provider. All the best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk, FAX: +44 171 611 8545 Wellcome Institute for URL: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/ the History of Medicine, Email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Wellcome Trust, 183 Euston Road, Trust URL: http://www.wellcome.ac.uk London NW1 2BE, England. From raja at IFA.HAWAII.EDU Tue Sep 29 04:39:46 1998 From: raja at IFA.HAWAII.EDU (Narayan S. Raja) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 18:39:46 -1000 Subject: Question on Chinese folk novels Message-ID: <161227041509.23782.18089356562407836146.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > From: "N. Ganesan" > > Heard that Chinese folktales telling that > Hsuan-tsang took Potalaka from South India and deposited it > in Western China. I am curious to find where this is narrated. Haven't heard this legend. If you find more details about this, please share them. Any references? Thanks in advance. > Could this taking of Potalaka occur in any of the follow-ups > on the Journey to the West? Does any ofthe Xiyou bu (supplement to > the Westward journey), Hou Xiyou ji (Later record of the > Westward journey), Xu Xiuou ji (Sequel to the Westward journey) > speak of the carrying of Potalaka? Do the follow ups > of the Westward journey exist in English translation? A rather boring work called "Tower of Myriad Mirrors" does exist in English translation. Nothing in there about the above legend. > "Monkey turned and somersaulted off into his loud and in less than > a half hour he came in sight of the Southern Ocan and saw Mount > Potalaka rise up before him". Nowadays in China, "Potalaka" is firmly identified with Putuo Shan, a mountain and small island off the coast near Shanghai and Taiwan in the East China Sea. It is considered one of the "four sacred mountains" of Chinese Buddhism. Pilgrims and tourists go there. FYI, Raja. From sbaldwin at EXECPC.COM Mon Sep 28 23:45:13 1998 From: sbaldwin at EXECPC.COM (Shauna Singh Baldwin) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 18:45:13 -0500 Subject: Question: Matrimonials in Indian newspapers? Message-ID: <161227041502.23782.16487844939426230855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of Indology: I hope a member of this group can help with this question for a novel currently in editing "What the Body Remembers" (Doubleday USA/Knopf Canada, 1999). I need to know if matrimonial advertisements were used in Punjab - in Punjabi or Urdu papers as early as 1930? I did find reference to the practise in a memoir published in 1946, but I really need to know about 1930. Many thanks in advance for your assistance. If you would like to respond off-list, my email is sbaldwin at execpc.com Shauna Singh Baldwin From mitra at AECOM.YU.EDU Tue Sep 29 01:15:57 1998 From: mitra at AECOM.YU.EDU (Joydeep Mitra) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 21:15:57 -0400 Subject: Question: are there quotes/references in ancient Indian texts? In-Reply-To: <36101F89.90C3B189@execpc.com> Message-ID: <161227041505.23782.10906188271813031539.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Some households in India mention that 'it is written in the Vedas/Upanishads' that 'special guests were served veal in the vedic era'. A second thing mentioned in a similar vein is that 'near the end of the Koli yug, the peeth (yellow) people will reign supreme in the world'. Are these accurate? If so, what is the quote and where is it? From calmvs at CONCENTRIC.NET Tue Sep 29 05:11:21 1998 From: calmvs at CONCENTRIC.NET (Kakmuk) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 22:11:21 -0700 Subject: Question on Chinese folk novels Message-ID: <161227041511.23782.13336246775772935766.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ?? ??, ?? ?? ????. ?? ?? ??? ?? ??????. ??? ?????? ???????. ???????. ?? ???? ?? 5???? ????. ?? ... From calmvs at CONCENTRIC.NET Tue Sep 29 05:27:23 1998 From: calmvs at CONCENTRIC.NET (Kakmuk) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 22:27:23 -0700 Subject: I am very sorry to have sent my personal mail to the server. Message-ID: <161227041513.23782.10924486139018600190.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members, I am very sorry to have mistakenly sent my personal mail to the list server. Please excuse my mistake. Yours sincerely, Kakmuk From Palaniappa at AOL.COM Tue Sep 29 03:54:19 1998 From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 23:54:19 -0400 Subject: tantric rites and potter's wheel Message-ID: <161227041507.23782.1221529799036062242.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Baidyanath Saraswati says the followingin Pottery-Making Cultures and Indian Civilization (1978, p.88): "In Tantra literature, we find a few esoteric rites connected with the potter's wheel which also aim at the attainment of vigour." Can anybody describe what these rites are or give references? Thanks in advance. Regards S. Palaniappan From winnie.fellows at UNIKEY.COM.BR Tue Sep 29 13:06:32 1998 From: winnie.fellows at UNIKEY.COM.BR (winnie fellows) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 10:06:32 -0300 Subject: librairies parisiennes Message-ID: <161227041522.23782.13944917331240949516.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> -- >Just for French readers knowing Paris, > Je me rends a Paris a la fin de la semaine. Quelqu'un connait-il >une librairie ou je pourrais trouver la traduction du livre I du MBh (van >Buitenen, Chicago, neuf ou occasion)? > Merci d'avance, >Dominique > >>>>> Certainement ? la Librairie Orientaliste Samuelian, ? la rue Monsieur le Prince. J.C. From Sfauthor at AOL.COM Tue Sep 29 14:38:28 1998 From: Sfauthor at AOL.COM (Brian Akers) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 10:38:28 -0400 Subject: Best computer for Sanskrit? Message-ID: <161227041525.23782.8426903888407504904.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In a message dated 9/29/98 12:58:29 PM, you wrote: >I don't want to stir up the pot. But in response to Prof Thillaud's >objection to an earlier commercial ad., would the below stuff constitute >commercial? No, it is not commercial. It is helpful information; an honest evaluation that the poster does not profit from. Brian From sns at IX.NETCOM.COM Tue Sep 29 18:17:50 1998 From: sns at IX.NETCOM.COM (SNS) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 13:17:50 -0500 Subject: Website on Indian Archeology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041531.23782.12412690026775139547.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A most interesting site on Indian Archeology. Discover India Website http://www.picatype.com/dig/dig.htm From thillaud at UNICE.FR Tue Sep 29 11:54:30 1998 From: thillaud at UNICE.FR (Dominique.Thillaud) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 13:54:30 +0200 Subject: librairies parisiennes Message-ID: <161227041517.23782.9399426913436403285.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Just for French readers knowing Paris, Je me rends a Paris a la fin de la semaine. Quelqu'un connait-il une librairie ou je pourrais trouver la traduction du livre I du MBh (van Buitenen, Chicago, neuf ou occasion)? Merci d'avance, Dominique Dominique THILLAUD Universite' de Nice Sophia-Antipolis, France From kumar at PIXIE.UDW.AC.ZA Tue Sep 29 12:07:05 1998 From: kumar at PIXIE.UDW.AC.ZA (Prof P Kumar) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 14:07:05 +0200 Subject: Best computer for Sanskrit? Message-ID: <161227041519.23782.16355264766089199700.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I don't want to stir up the pot. But in response to Prof Thillaud's objection to an earlier commercial ad., would the below stuff constitute commercial? How do we decide whether something is commercial if the below is not one? For instance someone wanting to find a publisher for his/ her work in Indology would have benefitted from that contact in much the same way as someone wanting to buy Indian fonts would have benefitted from the below info. Pratap >At 16:49 28/09/98 EDT, you wrote: > > >> I am undecided >>whether to stick with the Mac or switch to Windows. > > > >For anyone considering using Windows or Windows NT to write in Indian >scripts I can strongly recommend the package of fonts and keyboard program >developped by Avinash Chopde and Shreekrishna Patil. It goes by the name of >ILKEYB (Indian Language Keyboard Program). The Indian Language Fonts are >elegant and the keyboard layout program is ingeniously simple. It has a >simple little program which runs inconspicuously in the background, and >with it you can write in Indian Language Fonts in just about any Windows >word processor (MS Word, Word Perfect...). Typing is very quick, as quick >as you can type in English. No need to remember any samaasa-aksharas. >They are all produced automatically as you type. > >The best thing about it is the help and support accorded by Messers Chopde >and Patil. They are both professional programmers based in the USA. >Although the package is a very simple self-installing affair, still if you >have any particular needs they are ready to add things on request. > >Mr Chopde has also developped the ITRANS package (for UNIX and DOS) and he >is working on a package which will work on any Operating System (IScript). > > >The ILKEYB web page: > > > >The ITRANS page: > > > >The OS independant project: > > > > > >I don't say that ILKEYB is perfect nor can I say that this package is the >best around, because I haven't tried them all. But I can say that I have >used this package extensively and have found it to be elegantly simple and >perfectly suited to my needs. > >And the price is VERY reasonable. > > >regards, > >Adrian Burton > > > >______________________________________________________________ > >Adrian Burton ph:(61) (2) 6279 8240 >South and West Asia Centre fax:(61) (2) 6279 8326 >Faculty of Asian Studies > >Australian National University >0200 ACT Australia Prof. P. Kumar (Head of Dept) Department of Science of Religion University of Durban-Westivlle Private BagX54001 Durban 4000 South Africa Tel: 027-31-204-4539 (work) Fax: 027-31-204-4160 (work) Email: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za Director of the 18th Quinquennial Congress of the IAHR Durban- August 5-12 2000 For more info on the Congress please see: http://www.udw.ac.za/iahr From ditte.bandini at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Tue Sep 29 12:17:40 1998 From: ditte.bandini at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Ditte Bandini) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 14:17:40 +0200 Subject: librairies parisiennes Message-ID: <161227041520.23782.4515499668791457949.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dominique.Thillaud schrieb: > Just for French readers knowing Paris, > Je me rends a Paris a la fin de la semaine. Quelqu'un connait-il > une librairie ou je pourrais trouver la traduction du livre I du MBh (van > Buitenen, Chicago, neuf ou occasion)? > Merci d'avance, > Dominique > > Dominique THILLAUD > Universite' de Nice Sophia-Antipolis, France Dear Dominique Thillaud,I would try the librairie de l' Institut de Civilisation Indienne ( 52 Rue du Cardinal Lemoine). It's in the Quartier Latin not far from the Coll?ge de France. They as a rule have everything you want in this respect. But being in Paris you might as well phone Madame Isabelle Szelagowwski 44271828, she will know if the book is there or not. D. Bandini From Adrian.Burton at ANU.EDU.AU Tue Sep 29 06:21:38 1998 From: Adrian.Burton at ANU.EDU.AU (Adrian Burton) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 16:21:38 +1000 Subject: Best computer for Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: <3a4eae0e.360ff661@aol.com> Message-ID: <161227041515.23782.16632762247500308530.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 16:49 28/09/98 EDT, you wrote: > I am undecided >whether to stick with the Mac or switch to Windows. For anyone considering using Windows or Windows NT to write in Indian scripts I can strongly recommend the package of fonts and keyboard program developped by Avinash Chopde and Shreekrishna Patil. It goes by the name of ILKEYB (Indian Language Keyboard Program). The Indian Language Fonts are elegant and the keyboard layout program is ingeniously simple. It has a simple little program which runs inconspicuously in the background, and with it you can write in Indian Language Fonts in just about any Windows word processor (MS Word, Word Perfect...). Typing is very quick, as quick as you can type in English. No need to remember any samaasa-aksharas. They are all produced automatically as you type. The best thing about it is the help and support accorded by Messers Chopde and Patil. They are both professional programmers based in the USA. Although the package is a very simple self-installing affair, still if you have any particular needs they are ready to add things on request. Mr Chopde has also developped the ITRANS package (for UNIX and DOS) and he is working on a package which will work on any Operating System (IScript). The ILKEYB web page: The ITRANS page: The OS independant project: I don't say that ILKEYB is perfect nor can I say that this package is the best around, because I haven't tried them all. But I can say that I have used this package extensively and have found it to be elegantly simple and perfectly suited to my needs. And the price is VERY reasonable. regards, Adrian Burton ______________________________________________________________ Adrian Burton ph:(61) (2) 6279 8240 South and West Asia Centre fax:(61) (2) 6279 8326 Faculty of Asian Studies Australian National University 0200 ACT Australia From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Tue Sep 29 15:26:45 1998 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 16:26:45 +0100 Subject: Best computer for Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: <15049f68.3610f0e4@aol.com> Message-ID: <161227041526.23782.12887711687654918086.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Brian Akers wrote: > No, it is not commercial. It is helpful information; an honest > evaluation that the poster does not profit from. Yes, I agree, and I'm the final arbiter where this particular list is concerned. INDOLOGY is my baby, and although it has grown up now into a wayward teenager, I can still exert some parental control occasionally. Adrian Burton's information about the Indian Language Keyboard program was a testimonial from a happy customer, not an advertisement by a commercial concern. There's a difference. One of the characteristic behaviours we see in these commercial companies who have despoiled our list recently is that they join the list, post their adverts, and immediately resign again. Probably this is done automatically by a spamming machine, though I don't know for sure. Adrian, however, is an ordinary member of the list, and has not (as of a minute or two ago, at least) resigned! As I have said in the past, the very *essence* of INDOLOGY is that it is a conversazione, and it is as important to listen as to speak. A hundred years ago we would have been gathering in a salon to exchange the latest in gossip, academic and artistic development, politics, and so on; today we have a listserv group. Those of you who just read and write to INDOLOGY as "end users" will not be aware of the amount of editing and filtering work that goes on behind the scenes, especially by Chris Wooff and Alan Thew at Liverpool, and to a lesser extent by me. This is necessary in order to cope with difficulties of various kinds, some technical and some personal. The recent posters of advertisements to INDOLOGY have all been permanently banned from joining the list, and one of them, from Alpana Arts, has subsequently sent insulting email, containing swearwords, to the Liverpool crew. A true vulgarian. >?From the point of view of the list maintainers, it is usually very clear who is doing what, and who the commercial spammers are. All the best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk, FAX: +44 171 611 8545 Wellcome Institute for URL: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/ the History of Medicine, Email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Wellcome Trust, 183 Euston Road, Trust URL: http://www.wellcome.ac.uk London NW1 2BE, England. From lmfosse at ONLINE.NO Tue Sep 29 18:25:38 1998 From: lmfosse at ONLINE.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 18:25:38 +0000 Subject: SV: Best computer for Sanskrit? Message-ID: <161227041529.23782.16257702958162551387.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dominik Wujastyk wrote: A hundred years ago we would have been gathering in a salon to exchange the latest in gossip, academic and artistic development, politics, and so on; today we have a listserv group. An interesting thought! Of course, a hundred years ago, all of us (not quite so many as today) would probably have been able to fit into one of those huge, wonderful salons of the fin-de-siecle (I hope, in a house of GOOD repute!) The thought of cramming us all into a salon today seems positively mind-boggling. It takes a salon the size of Internet. With convivial greetings, Lars Martin Fosse Dr. art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 22 32 12 19 Email: lmfosse at online.no -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment.bin Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1791 bytes Desc: not available URL: From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Sep 30 02:44:20 1998 From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 19:44:20 -0700 Subject: Question on Chinese folk novels Message-ID: <161227041532.23782.8282449246905550910.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> <<< Nowadays in China, "Potalaka" is firmly identified with Putuo Shan, a mountain and small island off the coast near Shanghai and Taiwan in the East China Sea. It is considered one of the "four sacred mountains" of Chinese Buddhism. Pilgrims and tourists go there. >>> Pl. see Yu Chun-fang's article, "P'u-t'o Shan: Pilgrimage and the Creation of the Chinese Potalaka," in Susan Naquin and Chun-fang Yu, editors, "Pilgrims and Sacred Sites in China" (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1992). Chinese Pu-to and Tibetan Potala palace are secondary derivations after South Indian Potalaka. The following is what I read on location of Potalaka. In addition we have GaNDavyUha sUtram where Potalaka comes after describing a string of Tamilnadu places. In any reference, there is NO mention of Potalaka in the Northwest. T. Watters, On Yuan Chwang's travels in India, 1905 2.229 says: "From Kanchi city he went south above 3000 li to the Mo-la-ku-ta country" (K. A. Nilakanta Sastri, Foreign notices of South India, 1939 says "This is the contemporary Pandyan kingdom. See Proc. of the Transactions of the sixth All India Oriental conference, p. 173-179") T. Watters continues: "In the south of the mo-lo-kuta (malakUTa) country near the sea was mo-lo-ya (malaya) mountain, lofty cliffs and ridges and deep valleys and gullies, on which were sandal, camphor and other trees. To the east of this was the pu-ta-lo-ka (potalaka) mountain with steep narrow paths over its cliffs and gorges in irregular confusion; on the top was a lake of clear water, whence issues a river which on its wayto the sea, flowed twenty times round the mountain. By the side of the lake was a deva place frequented by kuan-tzu-tsai-p?usa (avalokitezvara). Devotees, risking life, brave water and mountain to see the p?usa, but only a few succeed in reaching the shrine. To the people at the foot of the mountain who pray for a sight of the P?usa, he appears sometimes as a pazupata tIrthika, or mahezvara, and consoles the suppliant with his answer." S. Beal, Si-yu-ki, Buddhist records of the Western world, 1884 2.233 says: "To the east of the Malaya mountains is Mount Po-ta-la-ka (Potalaka)." L. M. Joshi, Studies in the Buddhist culture of India, 1967 "This Potalaka is located by Hsuan Tsang in MalakuuTa, identified by Cunningham with a tract between Madura, Tanjore and Travancore. Nandolal De suggested that Potalaka lay in Western Ghats. Nalinaksha Dutt suggets that modern Potiyam may represent Potalaka [203]" Have few papers including those of Lokesh Chandra (Kailash jl) and S. Hikosaka (JIAS) placing Potalaka as Potiyil mountain in Malaya mountain range. In Tamil literature, it is interesting to see that Malaya mountain is considered a cultural symbol of the South while Himalayas symbolozes the North. "poRkOTTu imayamum potiyamum pOn2RE" - puRanAn2URu "imayam Ayin2um potiyam Ayin2um ... pukArE tamatUr" - cilappatikAram In Manimekalai, instead of going to Himalayas, a couple decide as a substitute to go to Potiyil (can give exact lines). Eighth century Pandya copper plates refer to Agastya as their Kulaguru... Agastya resides in Potiyil in ParipaaTal. For Kamban, Agastya teaches tamil in Potiyil/Malaya mountain which he learnt from Siva. For the buddhist author of ViiracOziyam grammar, Agastya learns Tamil from Avalalokitezvara. This theme is used in Sanskrit too. In Lalitaa sahasranAmam, bhagavatii (acc. to Bhaskararaya) is) malayAcala vAsini, In Buddhist Taaraa suuktam, she is potalakagirinivAsini. Tara is the spouse of Avalokitesvara. In DaNDin, an anonymous quote in DhvanyAlokam and Jayadeva, we find the malaya breeze hurts lovers in separation. (This theme comes in tamil early on: ainguRunURu, akanaan2URu, Cilampu, nammAzvAr, tirumangai AzvAr, Kamban, Villi, .. will provide the passages later). Is the Sanskrit usage arising because Tamil is well-known for akam"interior,love"/puram"exterior,societal" division of life and majority of sangam poems are love poems? Agastya represents the Aryanization of the South in Tamil literature from 4th century AD onwards. That is from the time Agastya appears in the literature of the South. It is only natural that his abode, malaya figures in Hindu Sanskrit texts while potalaka figures in Buddhist Sanskrit texts in special ways. More later, N. Ganesan Prof. Meir Shahar gave some references to read when asked about Xuanzang carrying Potalaka from the South and deposting in West China. <<<<< I will not try to address your Potalaka question directly, since I am really not an expert on the subject. However, I am enclosing the titles of several publications where you may be able to find answers to this fascinating question: 1) Yu Chun-fang's article, "P'u-t'o Shan: Pilgrimage and the Creation of the Chinese Potalaka," in Susan Naquin and Chun-fang Yu, editors, "Pilgrims and Sacred Sites in China" (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1992). 2) Anthony Yu, translator, "The Journey to the West" (Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1977), 4 volumes. (especially the translator's introduction in volume 1). 3) Arthur Waley. "The Real Tripitaka and Other Pieces" (London 1952). 4) Glen Dudbridge, "The Hsi-yu chi: A Study of Antecedents to the Sixteenth-Century Chinese Novel" (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1970). >>>>> When I read Qobad Afshar's work on Geographical appellatives in gaNdavyUham, I find many parrallels in tamil literature. For example, the vasumitra story has some thing to do with kollippAvai of sangam texts. Vasumitra's place is full of gemstones vaiDuurya (cat's eye), beryls, etc., Near Kolli hills these are found. May be 60-70% Roman coins ever found in India come from that region traded for these gemstones. ng ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From laks at IDMB.TAMU.EDU Wed Sep 30 04:48:10 1998 From: laks at IDMB.TAMU.EDU (Lakshminarayan Iyer) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 23:48:10 -0500 Subject: Question on Chinese folk novels Message-ID: <161227041536.23782.4146958232937702651.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Mr. Ganesan: I find this compilation really interesting... Ofcourse, the Indology novice in me wonders if there is a connection between Potalaka and Sabarimala.. the ardurous journey (something we still follow), the river Pampa, the Amman temple next to the temple of Lord Ayyappa (Here according to the legend, the goddess is not wedded to this lord of the hills)... the temple architecture is reminiscent of Buddhist influence? The directions in the texts mentioned. All very suggestive of some homology, if not similarity. Thank you, Lakshminarayan > ---------- > From: N. Ganesan[SMTP:naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM] > Reply To: Indology > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 9:44 PM > To: INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK > Subject: Re: Question on Chinese folk novels > > <<< > Nowadays in China, "Potalaka" is firmly identified with > Putuo Shan, a mountain and small island off the coast > near Shanghai and Taiwan in the East China Sea. It > is considered one of the "four sacred mountains" of > Chinese Buddhism. Pilgrims and tourists go there. > >>> > > > Pl. see Yu Chun-fang's article, "P'u-t'o Shan: Pilgrimage and the > Creation of the Chinese Potalaka," in Susan Naquin and Chun-fang Yu, > editors, "Pilgrims and Sacred Sites in China" (Berkeley: University of > California Press, 1992). > > Chinese Pu-to and Tibetan Potala palace are secondary derivations > after South Indian Potalaka. > > The following is what I read on location of Potalaka. > In addition we have GaNDavyUha sUtram where Potalaka comes after > describing a string of Tamilnadu places. In any reference, there is > NO mention of Potalaka in the Northwest. > > T. Watters, On Yuan Chwang's travels in India, 1905 > 2.229 says: > "From Kanchi city he went south above 3000 li to the Mo-la-ku-ta > country" > (K. A. Nilakanta Sastri, Foreign notices of South India, 1939 > says "This is the contemporary Pandyan kingdom. See Proc. of the > Transactions of the sixth All India Oriental conference, p. 173-179") > > T. Watters continues: > "In the south of the mo-lo-kuta (malakUTa) > country near the sea was mo-lo-ya (malaya) mountain, lofty cliffs and > ridges > and deep valleys and gullies, on which were sandal, camphor and other > trees. > To the east of this was the pu-ta-lo-ka (potalaka) mountain with steep > narrow > paths over its cliffs and gorges in irregular confusion; on the top was > a > lake of clear water, whence issues a river which on its wayto the sea, > flowed > twenty times round the mountain. By the side of the lake was a deva > place > frequented by kuan-tzu-tsai-p'usa (avalokitezvara). Devotees, risking > life, > brave water and mountain to see the p'usa, but only a few succeed in > reaching > the shrine. To the people at the foot of the mountain who pray for a > sight > of > the P'usa, he appears sometimes as a pazupata tIrthika, or mahezvara, > and > consoles the suppliant with his answer." > > S. Beal, Si-yu-ki, Buddhist records of the Western world, 1884 > 2.233 says: > "To the east of the Malaya mountains is Mount Po-ta-la-ka (Potalaka)." > > L. M. Joshi, Studies in the Buddhist culture of India, 1967 > "This Potalaka is located by Hsuan Tsang in MalakuuTa, identified by > Cunningham with a tract between Madura, Tanjore and Travancore. > Nandolal De suggested that Potalaka lay in Western Ghats. > Nalinaksha Dutt suggets that modern Potiyam may represent Potalaka > [203]" > > Have few papers including those of Lokesh Chandra (Kailash jl) and S. > Hikosaka (JIAS) > placing Potalaka as Potiyil mountain in Malaya mountain range. > > In Tamil literature, it is interesting to see that Malaya mountain is > considered > a cultural symbol of the South while Himalayas symbolozes the North. > "poRkOTTu imayamum potiyamum pOn2RE" - puRanAn2URu > "imayam Ayin2um potiyam Ayin2um ... pukArE tamatUr" - cilappatikAram > In Manimekalai, instead of going to Himalayas, a couple decide as a > substitute > to go to Potiyil (can give exact lines). > Eighth century Pandya copper plates refer to Agastya as their > Kulaguru... > > Agastya resides in Potiyil in ParipaaTal. For Kamban, Agastya teaches > tamil > in Potiyil/Malaya mountain which he learnt from Siva. For the buddhist > author of ViiracOziyam grammar, Agastya learns Tamil from > Avalalokitezvara. > > This theme is used in Sanskrit too. In Lalitaa sahasranAmam, bhagavatii > (acc. to Bhaskararaya) is) malayAcala vAsini, In Buddhist Taaraa > suuktam, > she is potalakagirinivAsini. > Tara is the spouse of Avalokitesvara. > > In DaNDin, an anonymous quote in DhvanyAlokam and Jayadeva, we find the > malaya breeze > hurts lovers in separation. (This theme comes in tamil early on: > ainguRunURu, akanaan2URu, Cilampu, nammAzvAr, tirumangai AzvAr, Kamban, > Villi, .. > will provide the passages later). Is the Sanskrit usage arising because > Tamil is well-known for > akam"interior,love"/puram"exterior,societal" division of life > and majority of sangam poems are love poems? > > Agastya represents the Aryanization of the South in Tamil literature > from > 4th century AD onwards. That is from the time Agastya appears in the > literature > of the South. It is only natural that his abode, malaya figures > in Hindu Sanskrit texts while potalaka figures in Buddhist Sanskrit > texts in special ways. > > More later, > N. Ganesan > > Prof. Meir Shahar gave some references to read when asked about > Xuanzang carrying > Potalaka from the South and deposting in West China. > > <<<<< > I will not try to address your Potalaka question directly, since I am > really not an expert on the subject. However, I am enclosing the titles > of several publications where you may be able to find answers to this > fascinating question: > > 1) Yu Chun-fang's article, "P'u-t'o Shan: Pilgrimage and the > Creation of the Chinese Potalaka," in Susan Naquin and Chun-fang Yu, > editors, "Pilgrims and Sacred Sites in China" (Berkeley: University of > California Press, 1992). > > 2) Anthony Yu, translator, "The Journey to the West" (Chicago: > The > University of Chicago Press, 1977), 4 volumes. (especially the > translator's introduction in volume 1). > > 3) Arthur Waley. "The Real Tripitaka and Other Pieces" (London > 1952). > > 4) Glen Dudbridge, "The Hsi-yu chi: A Study of Antecedents to > the > Sixteenth-Century Chinese Novel" (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, > 1970). > >>>>> > > When I read Qobad Afshar's work on Geographical appellatives in > gaNdavyUham, > I find many parrallels in tamil literature. For example, the vasumitra > story has some > thing to do with kollippAvai of sangam texts. Vasumitra's place is full > of > gemstones > vaiDuurya (cat's eye), beryls, etc., Near Kolli hills these are found. > May > be 60-70% > Roman coins ever found in India come from that region traded for these > gemstones. > > ng > > From sns at IX.NETCOM.COM Wed Sep 30 12:52:38 1998 From: sns at IX.NETCOM.COM (SNS) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 07:52:38 -0500 Subject: YAW - yet another website In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980930115054.00818790@hd1.vsnl.net.in> Message-ID: <161227041549.23782.17577881274384956594.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Yet another article of interest on Indian History from the Times Of India... http://www.timesofindia.com/today/30edit11.htm From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Wed Sep 30 08:18:24 1998 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 09:18:24 +0100 Subject: Hinduja Center spring/summer 1998 Newsletter on line (fwd) Message-ID: <161227041541.23782.6808095684417211989.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:33:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Nancy Braxton Subject: Hinduja Center spring/summer 1998 Newsletter on line The 1998 Spring/Summer issue of the Newsletter of the Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center is now available on-line. Please browse by consulting our Website at From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Wed Sep 30 08:19:49 1998 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 09:19:49 +0100 Subject: soc.history.early-modern RFD (fwd) Message-ID: <161227041543.23782.6757663163396824255.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:51:25 -0500 From: Curt Emanuel Subject: soc.history.early-modern RFD Dominik, Please forward the following message to the INDOLOGY list. Thanks, Curt Emanuel (cemanuel at accs.net) proponent soc.history.early-modern ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dear Indology Listmembers, Enclosed below is the RFD (Request for Discussion) for a new Usenet newsgroup, soc.history.early-modern. Please keep in mind that while your input in the discussion is welcome and encouraged, that discussion should take place on Usenet, in news.groups. Curt Emanuel (cemanuel at accs.net) proponent soc.history.early-modern ----- enclosed message follows ----- REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) unmoderated group soc.history.early-modern This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a worldwide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup, soc.history.early-modern. This is not a Call For Votes (CFV); you cannot vote until a CFV is posted at a future date, assuming one is. Procedural details are below. Newsgroup line: soc.history.early-modern Early modern history worldwide, to 1800. RATIONALE: soc.history.early-modern Early modern history, as often defined, is an era of history in various areas of the world which centres on roughly the 17th century AD. There is much disagreement about when it begins and ends, but for the purpose of this proposal the period runs from about 1500 to about 1800. There is much interest in early modern history on Usenet, but currently there is no Usenet newsgroup specifically dedicated to the topic, and discussion is often fragmented. Both soc.history and soc.history.moderated are appropriate. In an eleven-day period in May, there were 98 posts on early modern topics to soc.history, and one or two to soc.history.moderated. However, during an overlapping seven-day period, there were 154 such posts to soc.history.medieval, where they are off-topic. Despite this fact, in soc.history.medieval, DejaNews shows over 1700 posts just in 1998 whose subject lines contain the keyword "SHEM", developed after planning for this newsgroup began last year; of these, probably 300 or 400 concern the creation of the group, but other recent discussions dealt with Martin Luther, the movie "The Man with the Iron Mask", gunpowder weapons, the European voyages of discovery, and early modern Southeast Asia. Discussion on soc.history.medieval to date has shown near-unanimous support for the creation of soc.history.early-modern. In addition, at least one group (soc.war.us-revolutionary) covers a subset of this period. Others cover topics which overlap with it (soc.history.science, soc.history.war.misc), or deal with the topic in a different way (soc.history.what-if, soc.history.living). Early modern arts are discussed in humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare and rec.music.early. None of this traffic is likely to move to soc.history.early-modern (in fact, very little of it is more on- topic for soc.history.early-modern than for its present location). Still, it is clear that wherever possible, early modern history is discussed on Usenet, in some cases heavily discussed. So it is reasonable to expect a group dedicated specifically to that subject to succeed. The existing groups soc.history.medieval and soc.history.ancient demonstrate that unmoderated groups for specific historical periods are viable. Soc.history.early-modern fits naturally into this Usenet sub-hierarchy and seems its natural culmination, given that soc.history and soc.history.moderated are already dominated by discussion of more recent history. The name for the period, "early modern", while less intuitive than "ancient" or "medieval", is the standard scholarly name, is reasonably clear, and is preferable to several alternatives considered since discussion began last year (e.g. "renaissance", "1400to1800", ...). CHARTER: soc.history.early-modern This is a newsgroup for discussion of the history of all peoples from about 1500 to about 1800 - the era from the beginning of worldwide contact to the consolidation of Europe's worldwide control, roughly from the voyages of exploration to the French Revolution. Some examples of appropriate topics include, among many other possibilities: - military (artillery, muskets, firearms trading...) - political (absolutism, gunpowder empires, mercantilism...) - economic (trading companies, African slave trade, crop exchange...) - intellectual (Renaissance, scientific revolution, rationalism...) - religious (Sikhism, the Reformation, Shi`ite Persia...) - people (Akbar, Askia Muhammad, Cheng Ho, Galileo, Moctezuma, Pocahontas, Suleyman, whoever interests you ...) - ecological (disease exchange, deforestations...) - whatever other early modern topic strikes your fancy. (Pirates! The Taj Mahal! ! ... :-) The boundaries between this group and soc.history.medieval and any possible modern history group, should one be formed, are intended to be flexible. The roots of any period reach back to the one before, and its fruits to the following one. It should be possible for discussion pertaining to early-modern topics to extend both before and after the time period defined here, in order to explore their causes and ends. In particular, while some topics pertaining to the 15th century or to the early 19th century are clearly early modern in character and appropriate to this group (the Quattrocento, the Lewis and Clark expedition), others clearly are not and should be discussed elsewhere (the Wars of the Roses, Latin American independence), and still others are debatable and could reasonably be discussed on either group (the founding of Songhai, the first printing press in Persia). Appropriate postings include discussions of appropriate topics, FAQs, booklists, personal insight essays, announcements of new publications and research, analyses of historical patterns, reviews of current research and media programs, etc. Cross-posting should usually be avoided. Before starting a thread posters should consider whether another group is more appropriate. If a topic is near the beginning of the group's period, it might do better in soc.history.medieval; if it's near the end, it might do better in soc.history or soc.history.moderated. When posting about a topic for which a more specialised group already exists - such as Shakespeare (humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare), the American Revolution (soc.history.war.us-revolution), music (rec.music.early), or Mesoamerican archaeology (sci.archaeology.mesoamerican) - it is usually best to use the specialised group. Topics for which an alternative history group exists - such as war (soc.history.war.misc) or science (soc.history.science) - may be posted either there or in soc.history.early-modern, perhaps with a pointer to direct readers of the other group to the discussion. Inappropriate postings include: - postings on "what-if" alternate history speculations (use soc.history.what-if); - postings about current events as rooted in the past (use soc.history or a politics group); - postings about re-enactment of history (use soc.history.living); - postings about unverifiable events and fantasy cultures (unless the fantasies were in fact written in the early modern period and are being discussed in relation to that period; otherwise, use rec.arts.sf.written, alt.mythology, alt.archaeology, or whatever). - HTML postings, which are dropped by some news servers and cannot be read in many news programs (use news.newusers.questions to find out how to turn off HTML posting and all of Usenet will thank you). *Totally* inappropriate postings include: - advertisements and commercial posts, with the exception of short, non-hype, and infrequent (less than one per month) announcements of books and other media on the topic of early modern history; - binary files (excluding short signatures such as PGP signatures), which should be placed on the Web, or offered by e-mail, or posted to alt.binaries.pictures.misc etc.; - inappropriate cross-posts (usually, cross-posts to more than three groups total, including soc.history.early-modern). This group is unmoderated, allowing anyone with the proper access to participate in discussions. This charter is subject to modification to the extent that newsgroups named in it may be renamed or removed, or other newsgroups relevant to early modern history may be created. END CHARTER. PROCEDURE: This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroup should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) will be posted by a neutral vote taker. Please do not attempt to vote until this happens. All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups. This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process. DISTRIBUTION: This RFD will be posted to the following newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, soc.history, soc.history.medieval, soc.history.moderated, soc.history.war.us-revolution, humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare, rec.music.early and the following mailing lists: EARLY-MODERN Early Modern History (temporary list until this group is created or defeated) early-modern-request at postilion.org SHEMPLANNERS Planning for soc.history.early-modern (temporary list until this group is created or defeated) shemplanners-request at postilion.org H-OIEAHC Colonial and Early American History listserv at h-net.msu.edu (Note that this is an H-Net list and subscription is restricted.) HABSBURG Culture and History of the Central European Habsburg Monarchy and its successor states, 1500 - present listserv at vm.cc.purdue.edu (Note that this is an H-Net list and subscription may be restricted.) C18-L 18th Century Interdisciplinary Discussion listserv at lists.psu.edu PIRATES The history of piracy on the high seas. majordomo at listbox.com EARLYSCIENCE-L History of Science Society - Early Science Interest Group listserv at listserv.vt.edu POST1492 History of Spanish American Contacts RENAIS-L Early Modern History - Renaissance listserv at ulkyvm.louisville.edu GEMCS-L Early modern culture, both eastern and western mailserv at vaxc.hofstra.edu FICINO Discussion of the Renaissance and Reformation listserv at listserv.utoronto.ca MINGLIST The Society for Ming Studies majordomo at colby.edu INDOLOGY Indology listserv at listserv.liv.ac.uk SLAVERY The history of slavery, the slave trade, abolition, and emancipation listserv at listserv.uh.edu (The address given for each mailing list is the subscription address; for exact details on how to subscribe it is usually best to send a "help" command to that address. Appearance of the RFD on C18-L will be contingent on approval of the list-owner, who has been contacted.) Following this RFD's appearance on news.groups, pointers to it will be posted to the following newsgroups: soc.history.living, soc.history.science and full copies will be posted, with followups set to news.groups, to the following newsgroups: soc.history.war.misc, soc.history.what-if. Proponent: Joe Bernstein Proponent: Curt Emanuel Proponent: Mark Swann From pventhb at XS4ALL.NL Wed Sep 30 08:42:39 1998 From: pventhb at XS4ALL.NL (Th. de Bruijn) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 09:42:39 +0100 Subject: Best computer for Sanskrit? Message-ID: <161227041538.23782.669526715171995902.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Adrian Burton wrote: P.S. The single biggest problem of all Indic fonts on all operating systems is the lack of a standard keyboard layout. So for example to read a particular web site in a Hindi font you have to download the particular font used. No two fonts are the same. So no matter how ingeniously a software package like ILKEYB might be it is completely unintelligible to someone who doesn't have the same font. Thence my hidden commercial agenda - I would like the whole world to use the same font as I do! Dear Indology-readers, A short note to add to Burton's fine description of the situation for those who do not have the spare time to mess with Tex's intricacies (to put it mildly): there is a standard and it is called Unicode. There are many fonts by commercial companies available and one can make fonts with editors. The only wordprocessor I know that has full Unicode compliance would be Word97 on Windows NT (except for some texteditors that can use Unicode). Perhaps someone can shed light on how WordPerfect copes with this. As Unicode seems to have a future it is worthwhile mentioning it in advices for future users of Devanagari on Windows systems. I am experimenting with it myself, but lack the time to go very deep into it. Thomas de Bruijn (just a more or less happy user of all the stuff mentioned above) International Institute for Asian Studies Leiden From kumar at PIXIE.UDW.AC.ZA Wed Sep 30 07:53:58 1998 From: kumar at PIXIE.UDW.AC.ZA (Prof P Kumar) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 09:53:58 +0200 Subject: Apology Message-ID: <161227041539.23782.1245670379306520215.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Prof.Wujastyk, I take your point and thank you for clarifying. As I said in my previous message I did not mean to be critical but just wondered if there is some way of distinguishing commercial matters from useful information. But my sincere apologies to you for any misunderstanding that I might have created in this matter. I surely appreciate your personal effort in going through the trouble of offering this service to us as scholars. Pratap Prof. P. Kumar (Head of Dept) Department of Science of Religion University of Durban-Westivlle Private BagX54001 Durban 4000 South Africa Tel: 027-31-204-4539 (work) Fax: 027-31-204-4160 (work) Email: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za Director of the 18th Quinquennial Congress of the IAHR Durban- August 5-12 2000 For more info on the Congress please see: http://www.udw.ac.za/iahr From Palaniappa at AOL.COM Wed Sep 30 13:56:41 1998 From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 09:56:41 -0400 Subject: On ghaTikA Message-ID: <161227041553.23782.18027816024359417001.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would like to know if there are detailed descriptions of time measuring devices, ghaTikA, in Sanskrit texts? How did they operate? How were they made? Thanks in advance. Regards S. Palaniappan From naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Sep 30 18:02:04 1998 From: naga_ganesan at HOTMAIL.COM (N. Ganesan) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 11:02:04 -0700 Subject: Question on Chinese folk novels Message-ID: <161227041556.23782.5782108135606905571.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Message-ID: <161227041545.23782.5901602147980712021.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> How to reconcile the two statements below. Agastya teaches tamil not Sanskrit. Is this aryanisation? regards, sarma. At 07:44 PM 9/29/98 PDT, you wrote: ><<< >Agastya resides in Potiyil in ParipaaTal. For Kamban, Agastya teaches >tamil >in Potiyil/Malaya mountain which he learnt from Siva. For the buddhist >author of ViiracOziyam grammar, Agastya learns Tamil from >Avalalokitezvara. > >Agastya represents the Aryanization of the South in Tamil literature >from >4th century AD onwards. That is from the time Agastya appears in the >literature >of the South. It is only natural that his abode, malaya figures >in Hindu Sanskrit texts while potalaka figures in Buddhist Sanskrit >texts in special ways. > >More later, >N. Ganesan From a.korn at EM.UNI-FRANKFURT.DE Wed Sep 30 11:36:12 1998 From: a.korn at EM.UNI-FRANKFURT.DE (agnes korn) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 12:36:12 +0100 Subject: unicode Message-ID: <161227041547.23782.8236471903037790431.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear list-members, those who are interested in the development of Unicode are invited to visit our test pages (http://titus.uni-frankfurt.de/unicode/unitest.htm). The devanagari characters officially provided can be found in the upper half of block 09 (0900 through 0970), and the additional ones proposed by us are in block E9. A font to go with all that is under preparation. Agnes Korn -- ......................................................................... Agnes Korn Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft : Tel. + 49 - 69 - 798 22 847 Universitaet Frankfurt : Fax + 49 - 69 - 798 22 873 PF 11 19 32 : a.korn at em.uni-frankfurt.de D - 60054 Frankfurt : http://titus.uni-frankfurt.de From smittal at RELIGION.UFL.EDU Wed Sep 30 16:41:52 1998 From: smittal at RELIGION.UFL.EDU (Sushil Mittal) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 12:41:52 -0400 Subject: TOC: Volume 2, Number 2 (forthcoming) Message-ID: <161227041554.23782.9664297742774588868.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> International Journal of Hindu Studies ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Volume 2, Number 2, 1998 ARTICLES Relocating Ramarajya: Perspectives on Sita's Kitchen in Ayodhya Phyllis Herman, California State University Northridge A message without an audience: Svami Rama Tirtha's "Practical Vedanta" Robin Rinehart, Lafayette College Hindus at the edge: Self-awareness among adult children of interfaith marriages in Chennai, south India Mattison Mines, University of California Santa Barbara The Gurav Jati Puranas Jayant Bapat, Monash University Indianization versus Sanskritization in Javanese Law Mason C. Hoadley, Lund University BOOK REVIEWS ========================================================================== Full details on the _International Journal of Hindu Studies_, including contents pages and Notes for Contributors, can be found on the Journal Home Page at: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/ijhs/ ========================================================================== The annual subscription rates, which includes postage, for the Journal are N. America Rest of World Institutions: $150 $156 Individuals: $60 $66 Students: $30 $36 Orders from outside Canada must be paid in U.S. dollars. Canadian orders must add 7% GST (#138810882). Contact: World Heritage Press 1270 St-Jean, St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada J2S 8M2 Tel (514) 771 0213 Fax (514) 771 2776 ========================================================================= From Adrian.Burton at ANU.EDU.AU Wed Sep 30 03:55:05 1998 From: Adrian.Burton at ANU.EDU.AU (Adrian Burton) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 13:55:05 +1000 Subject: Best computer for Sanskrit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227041534.23782.11574448630017739648.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dominic's point is valid: the spammers do not contribute to the discussion on Indology. Contrast the behaviour of the spammers with the civilised discretion of the gentlemen from D.K.Printworld and other commercial concerns who contribute here from time to time. Nobody would join this list if it were only a flood of advertisements. The owner of a salon should have the right to stop hawkers from flooding the salon and driving away the clientele. (Dominic, when will we start getting our refreshments?) Perhaps I was waxing lyrical about ILKEYB, excuse me if my language was too persuasive. I feel indebted since I have found the product so useful. I can confirm that I am just a "happy customer". I was writing in the spirit of a favourable review. And it was in response to an explicit enquiry. (Incidentally ITRANS is freeware and ILKEYB sells for a token) Back on the point of the inquiry, I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone to type Indic fonts in Windows unless they had 'some kind' of keyboard program. It's very messy trying to remember Alt + 0xxx codes to insert the samaasa-aksharas that don't fit on the mere 128 spaces of our Anglo-centric keyboard. In contrast to this, most Mac fonts automatically allow one to use an extended font set by using the apple key in conjunction with the other key strokes. Another problem with the Windows platform used to be that documents containing extended font characters could be rather fragile, especially if you wanted to convert your file into another file format. It used to be that all your samaasa aksharas would be distorted if you converted the file to another file format. This situation has improved with the Win 95 onwards. On Win NT now I find that I can exchange documents in Indian fonts between word processors and between and between different versions of the same word processor without any problems. As far as Windows word processors are concerned the big two are MS Word and Word Perfect. They both keep pace with each other and as such are pretty much the same. I would favour WordPerfect [I dare again!! ] since it allows you to "reveal the codes" of your document so that you can view simultaneously both the finished devanagari (or other) result and also the exact keystrokes which went to form it (including the extended font set character numbers). There used to be some problems of interference between WordPerfect Characters and the characters of an extended font set but that seems to have been remedied in versions 7.x onwards. Moral: Up until quite recently Macintosh was well ahead of the Windows platform with regard to using Indic fonts. I believe that now there is not that much difference on this score and you can safely decide on other criteria (price, software availability, opinion of Mr. William Gates, etc..) regards, Adrian Burton P.S. The single biggest problem of all Indic fonts on all operating systems is the lack of a standard keyboard layout. So for example to read a particular web site in a Hindi font you have to download the particular font used. No two fonts are the same. So no matter how ingeniously a software package like ILKEYB might be it is completely unintelligible to someone who doesn't have the same font. Thence my hidden commercial agenda - I would like the whole world to use the same font as I do! ______________________________________________________________ Adrian Burton tel:(61) (2) 6279 8240 South and West Asia Centre fax:(61) (2) 6279 8326 Faculty of Asian Studies Australian National University 0200 ACT Australia From ycrnn14 at UCL.AC.UK Wed Sep 30 20:57:05 1998 From: ycrnn14 at UCL.AC.UK (Jibunnessa) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 13:57:05 -0700 Subject: Website on Indian Archeology Message-ID: <161227041551.23782.11001993662197167351.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Subramanya > http://www.picatype.com/dig/dig.htm > http://www.timesofindia.com/today/30edit11.htm Thanks for the above! Much appreciated! Haven't had time to look at the 'Fragile Falsehoods' article, but the dig.htm page does look good! Cheers. Jibunnessa -- Jibunnessa Abdullah Fax: (+44) 181 731-9770 ------------------------------------------------------ Old Bengali saying: "If you don't know how to dance, the yard must be wonky!" From smittal at RELIGION.UFL.EDU Wed Sep 30 18:14:52 1998 From: smittal at RELIGION.UFL.EDU (Sushil Mittal) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 14:14:52 -0400 Subject: CFP: Method and Theory section of IJHS Message-ID: <161227041558.23782.6744598422669773311.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Call for Papers _International Journal of Hindu Studies_ seeks contributions for a new section of the journal devoted to Method and Theory. It will serve as a forum for methodological critiques and debates about the merits of various theories of religion as they might apply to the study of Hinduism. Papers are invited that engage in theoretical analysis of aspects of religion (such as myths, rituals, institutions, and so on) as they relate to Hinduism. The hope is that this section will encourage the development of theories, interpretations, and explanations of religion best suited to the study of Hinduism. Contributions submitted for this section of the journal will be evaluated through the usual _International Journal of Hindu Studies_ double-blind, peer reviews. Completed manuscripts and inquiries about material for possible publication should be send to the Editor: Dr Sushil Mittal University of Florida Department of Religion Tel (352) 392-1625 125 Dauer Hall, P.O. Box 117410 Tel (352) 392-7395 Gainesville, Florida 32611-7410 Email: smittal at religion.ufl.edu Full details on the _International Journal of Hindu Studies_, including contents pages and Notes for Contributors, can be found on the Journal Home Page at: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/ijhs/ From smittal at RELIGION.UFL.EDU Wed Sep 30 18:21:46 1998 From: smittal at RELIGION.UFL.EDU (Sushil Mittal) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 14:21:46 -0400 Subject: CFP: Schools and Scholars section of IJHS Message-ID: <161227041560.23782.5262226838959713948.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Call for Papers _International Journal of Hindu Studies_ seeks contributions for a new section of the journal devoted to Schools and Scholars. This section will publish critical appreciations of major scholars and schools who have contributed to the development of the field of Hinduism. Schools and scholars considered under this rubric do not have to be religionist by disciplinary affiliation; and we will publish commentaries both sympathetic and sceptical. Contributions submitted for this section of the journal will be evaluated through the usual _International Journal of Hindu Studies_ double-blind, peer reviews. Completed manuscripts and inquiries about material for possible publication should be send to the Editor: Dr Sushil Mittal University of Florida Department of Religion Tel (352) 392-1625 125 Dauer Hall, P.O. Box 117410 Tel (352) 392-7395 Gainesville, Florida 32611-7410 Email: smittal at religion.ufl.edu Full details on the _International Journal of Hindu Studies_, including contents pages and Notes for Contributors, can be found on the Journal Home Page at: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/ijhs/