Is the Aryan Invasion a Myth?

[H.M.Hubey]

Yaroslav V. Vassilkov wrote:
>
> H.M.Hubey wrote (Nov.30):
>
> >1. The lower numerals (like 3,4,5) were apparently being developed in
> >the
> >Middle East/Sumeria around 3,000 BC. (see Denise Schmand-Bessarat, or
> >Diakanoff). But then circa 4500 BC a bunch of cattle-herders already
> >have
> >the integers (in decimal no less) up to a hundred! How is that possible?
>
>         Do you mean that before the Sumerians (Turkic-speaking, of course),
> "developed numerals", all other poor devils could not count up to 3, 4, 5?

I thought it went like this: God invented the IE peoples and then IE
peoples
invented speech and civilization :-)

I guess you have to ask Diakoff, and Denise Schmand-Bessarat. Like in
all
science, they seem to have noticed patterns in the world's languages
in which the bigger numbers are derived from the smaller numbers like
one-passed-one, one-passed-two, one-passed-three. If these distinguished
scientists (!) have come to the conclusion that the lower numerals as
seen
in the written record of the Middle East were being "invented" from even
smaller ones, then it is strange that a bunch of cattle-herders (that is
what the IE theory says) already could count up to 100 (in the decimal
system too, amazing) millennia before that. One of these is likely
wrong.

> >2. These people ran over, invaded and sacked half the world on horses
> >and
> >carts but cart-wheels can't be made without wood or metals, and there is
> >no wood or metals in the areas from which the IEans issued because they
> >are from the steppes. Why isn't it likely that they got their carts made
> >in civilized areas and which had wood, like North of India or north of
> >the Caucasus?
>
>         Vedic chariots were made without any metal, there was no single nail
> in them.

It's not necessary to use nails. But the outside rim (that goes on the
spokes) is held together by metal. Otherwise it would fall apart.

Besides, you are not suggesting that these great wheel-makers skipped
all the middle-levels in the then high-technology of wheel-making and
went right to spoked-wheels, are you? Or are you saying that the Vedic
wheels were a culmination of many years of wheel-making experience
and experiment starting a long time ago before the metals age possibly?

>         There is a lot of wood in the Ukraine or South Ural, for example, and
> metallurgy is well known there starting from the IV-III mill. B.C.

That is interesting. But South Urals are not the Ukrainian steppes.
Secondly,
perhaps you can tell us how the age of metal-making is known so well.
It surprises me that if dating the age of metal making was so easy we
should
then have a good chronology of where the iron age started and the bronze
age too while we are at it.

PS. Is this copper, bronze, or iron? What kinds of evidence is there? Is
it
mines? What kind of mines? copper? tin? zinc? iron? How is the age
dated?

Unless I am mistaken, often numbers are just invented by linguists. Most
of
them who give the age of IE to be 6,000 do not know where it came from.
It is not much more than fear by most to oppose the vocal few.

>         Most intriguing problem is in what particular way these illiterate
> IE bums made their orders for imports of car(t)s from the "civilized areas"
> in the Near East?

The illiterate IE bums is part of IE theory, according to its staunch
defenders. They do not have writing until Hittites which was borrowed
from
the Middle East. And the IE bums' "have horse, will travel" theory is
also
part of IE theory defended by most IEanists. Since the IE bums'
miraculous
invention of horse-riding and cart-making no other nomads seem to have
been very literate so it is unlikely that the IE bums were literate
either.
What is amazing is why a bunch of cattle-herders would be digging the
ground
for anything at all unless they already knew something about metallurgy.
So maybe humans knew a lot more about metals very long ago which is not
factored into the theories, or else it is unlikely that cattle-herders
discovered metals or worked them or knew how, unless some wandering
tribesmen from an area which already knew metalworking wandered into the
area and taught them.

>
>         Polish "pierogi" - Plural, "pierog" - Sing., Russian "pirog",
> Ukranian "pirig" go back to common Slavic word *pyro- meaning "ritual
> wheat bread" (there is also some connection with *pir "ritual feast").
> Cf. Greek "pyros" "wheat", Lith. "purai", eventually common IE *pU-ro-
> (Pokorny I, 850). There is no possibility of its connection with "burek"
> or any other Turkic word. The link with Chuvash "pyrek", Chagat. "burek",
> suggested by Ramstedt and Rasanen was rejected nany decades ago by all
> linguists.

Yes, I should have guessed. They could not have borrowed anything. I
guess
it is also not true that until the Mongols brought the cabbage to
Europe,
and before potatoes came from the new world, borscht was made with beets
only.

>         In the same way anything else in this posting has no foundation
> in facts and is not even "intuitive", but simply a product of absolutely
> unbridled imagination.

Tanenbaum has a nice saying; "if you don't like this year's standards,
wait
until next year; there will be plenty more." That is the great thing
about
the social scientists,; they are so sure of things that they have been
taught
to memorize while they were in school that they think "argument by
repetetion" is one of the axioms of logic. If some of them knew how to
think
(and some do, unfortunately not you) they would know that most of these
"theories" are based on two things: (1) unbridled imagination, (2) mass
repetetion of childhood memorizations.

If you repeat something enough times, and teach enough people to repeat
it,
it becomes "true" by virtue of repetition. This is why some people
outside of
Europe have realized that they can do the same thing; all they have to
do is
to teach their peoples to repeat the opposite things. Fortunately, there
are
still sane voices who are interested in truth and look for it.


>                        Best regards,
>                                         Yaroslav Vassilkov
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> volcanic eruption like Thera/Santorini?
>
> The biggest problem is that there seems to be no way to date metals.
> Nobody
> knows where the bronze, iron items came from. Nobody even seems to want
> to
> know. At least I am not aware of anyone who has done any thorough
> analysis.
> There is more to metals then what "style" they look like. They probably
> have
> different amounts of impurities in them, and may even contain hints of
> different smelting and working techniques. Unfortunately some of these
> tests are destructive. Maybe archaeologists and museums will learn
> eventually
> to part with small bits of metal objects to further the goal of science
> than
> to learn to polish them and keep them sparkling for visitors. Even the
> amount of
> oxidation may be important in attempting to date their manufacture date
> but
> my guess is that the only thing archaeologists think about is getting
> them
> polished and cleaned as soon as possible and then look at the drawings
> on them
> so they can label them Greek, Latin, Scythian etc.
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Mark
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--
Best Regards,
Mark
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hubeyh at montclair.edu =-=-=-= http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey
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The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity
to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons
or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
material  from any computer.
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