Paired Horse and PIE breakup

H.M.Hubey hubeyh at MONTCLAIR.EDU
Sat Nov 7 04:45:21 UTC 1998

Yaroslav V. Vassilkov wrote:
> There are many (dozens, hundreds) of scholarly works in English on the
> subject, see e.g. J.Harmatta. Studies in the language of the Iranian tribes in South
> Russia. - "Acta Orientalia" Budapest, t.I (1951), pp. 261-314;  M.Rostovtzeff.
> Iranians and Greeks in South Russia. Oxford, 1922; for the language of Eastern
> Scythians - Sakas see fundamental works by H.W.Bailey and R.E.Emmerick, etc.).
> But why are you going to limit yourselves with English sources only? If you
> are ready to make a revolution in world linguistics and to prove that Scythian
> language was not Iranian, how can you, being such a learned linguist, have any
> difficulties at all with French or German?

I am a computer scientist and engineer.

We have these problems with freshman students in comp sci. They think
will spend the next 4 years learning to program in umpteen languages.

Does being a linguist mean being able to converse in umpteen languages?
In my school people who do that are in the Department of Foreign

And then you will find another
> hundred of titles in French (numerous works by G.Dumezil, E.Benveniste
> and others) and German (e.g., works by J.Marquart). But I am sure that even
> if you read all this it will not shake your belief that Scythians, together
> with Sumerians and Etruscans, spoke (Proto-)Turkish.

I am sure that in at least one of your courses, you have learned how to
read things that are written and not read things that are not written.
I know that mathematical precision is not one of the hallmarks of being
a historical linguist but even for a fuzzy field there must be some
rules in which one can know the difference between slight exaggaration
and inaccuracy.

>     Olzhas Sulejmenov whom you refer to is no linguist, no historian, no
> anthropologist; he is a talanted and well-known Kazakh poet, who tries since
> the late 1970-ies in a diletant's way to prove the identity of Proto-Turks
> with Sumerians and exceptional role played by them in the world history.
> I don't know who are Tuna and Miziev, but if I may judge from your references
> to their works they belong to the same genre of nationalistic "science"-fiction.

I think I alread wrote about this. This is called "fallacy of argument
from authority". And there is also another fallacy of association. An
goes like this:
        This guy is black. Blacks have never achieved great standing
        in science. So there is no reason to pay attention.

There is really a very good reason why problems like this occur. It has
do with ignorance. If I ask the question "Does a qumquat look more like
quince or kiwi?" one must know what all 3 look like to make a decision.
All IEnists see only IE words. That is natural because that is their
area. But Altaicists should see Altaic words, but since most of them
come from
Europe, they don't see them. Then having formed a closed fraternity for
200 years they then blame everyone else who do not see things that way
as "ethnic chauvinists". That is very funny, especially for people who
were instrumental in creating the great "Aryan Racist Philosophy" of the
20th century.

There has to be neutral referee.

That great neutral referee has existed for 500 years.

It is math, and its branch of probability theory is younger but is
available for all those not too pompous.

> >That is also false. Romans called the Etruscans Tusci/Tursi. Turan was
> >a fertility goddes of Etruscans. Remarkably, /tuw/ is the root for
> >birth and begetting in Turkic. That is not all. There is more, even up
> >to and including the idea that 'troy' was really 'tur' and the Greek
> >language created the consonant cluster. I posted a list of cognates
> >between Chuvash and Etruscan at one time.
>          A dozen years ago a Russian ultra-patriotic writer made similar
> discovery. He is absolutely sure that the word "Etruscan" means simply
> "Eto - russkij", that is: "This is a Russian". Why should not the
> interested persons pay attention to this idea too?

Turan was an Etruscan goddess of fertility.

Perhaps you failed logic (if you ever took such a course) and
probably never took a probability theory course. That explains why
your reasoning processes are mixed up, to say the least.

But fortunately there are others who might see things differently.

>         But not on this list. It is hightime, I think, for somebody to open,
> let's say, "Nationalistic World history discussion club" (with the motto:
> Nationalists of all nations, unite!). Let them all come


Let's start from scratch, and get rid of creating a truth by
assertion and by popular vote.

That is one of the things holding up the present state of affairs.

> together there and decide in a friendly discussion, once and for all,
> what nation did Adam belong to, what language did Eve speak.
> Without us. We shall better stick to the problems of Indology.

>         This is my best wish to us all,
>                                         Ya.V.
> ______________________________
> Yaroslav V.Vassilkov, Ph.D.
> Department of South and SE Studies
> Institute of Oriental Studies
> Dvortsovaya nab., 18,
> St Petersburg, 191186,
> Russia
> Home address: Fontanka, 2,
> kv. 617, St Petersburg,
> 191187, Russia
> tel. +7 (812) 275 8179
> e-mail: yavass at

Best Regards,
hubeyh at =-=-=-=
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