Sarasvati (texts & arch.II)

Michael Witzel witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU
Thu May 28 11:44:37 UTC 1998

On Wed, 27 May 1998, Paul K. Manansala wrote:

> However, even in the RV  Vasistha's culture does not seem particularly
> IE.

IE ???? Long ago, RV = IA language & culture ...

V's poetry is in typical IA < IIr < IE style, and so is his

> The RV (II 5-3-7) states that the priests of the Saudasas were
> Angirasas, and Vasistha was the priest of Sudas.

Fine, but not all RV poets/priests are Aangirasa, e.g. the Kanva-s. And V.

> > Or do you also doubt that the Epics/Puranas are *late* texts compared to
> > the Vedas?  ---  (Love to see the proof!)

> Well, according to tradition, Krishna Dvaipayana compiled both at the
> same time.  Also, the Puranas are at least attempts at historical
> writing.  One can't say the same thing about the Vedas.

According to J-Chr. tradition the world is just 6000 years old. And the
Bible is at least an attempt etc. etc.

About the Vedas: their AIM is different but they contain, must I repeat,
CONTEMPORARY data of politics & society.

> > > But the Avesta is in neighboring Iran several centuries after the
> > > proposed "invasion".  If the Avestan language is younger, then using
> > > the standard  presumption we should suggest a migration from east to
> > > west.

> > How do you know that? Standard presumption?
> The practice used in most other cases.  Why make exceptions here?

J. Joyce (Ireland) is  younger than Shakespeare (England). Therefore J.'s
ancestors have invaded/immigrated from S. England???  Don't think so.

> > On reading any Avesta
> > section in the original you would see that it does not contain anything
> > (linguistically) that could have come out of India. No Indian words, no
> > Indian ideas, no Harappan items etc.

> I would strongly disagree with this statement, but the argument
> against it could get long and complicated.

Love to hear it. ANY Indian words, of Dravidian, Munda, nay even
Burushaski origin in Avesta ???? If not, silence is appropriate.

(IA immigration)
> > > > That has changed wit the finds in Bactria-Margiana and Baluchistan.
> > > > Now their is a *trail*, see Hiebert in Erdosy, Indo_Aryans

> > > Highly questionable.  We have to question the "Aryan" identification

> > "Highly questionable" does not do it. ....
> >  Dadhyanc will raise its ugly horse head again...

> Wrong.  The onus is on you to prove IE identification. Since we are
> talking mainly about language, I would love to hear of something more
> than a horse burial which was very common among *non-IE* peoples.

Just don't get it. Dadhyanc is a RV myth, not a *non-IE* horse burial.
That's why I chose him, not any old horse burial. Unfortunately he can't
*speak* to us.

Michael Witzel                       witzel at

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