From magier at columbia.edu Tue Oct 1 12:53:54 1996 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 08:53:54 -0400 Subject: Address Request Message-ID: <161227026185.23782.17374728607503852163.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > I have, in the past, come across some works of Prof. Johannes > Bronkhorst (Univ. of Lausanne, Switzerland). Since I am right now in > Switzerland, I have an opportunity to call on him personally. > > I would appreciate if someone could provide me his complete address > (including the Telephone and Fax numbers and possibly e-mail address > as well). In addition to a detailed description of Prof. Bronkhorsts research interests, his entry in The International Directory of South Asia Scholars (online) contains the following data: Prof. Dr. Johannes Bronkhorst Dept. of Oriental Languages and Cultures University of Lausanne BFSH 2 CH-1015 Lausanne, Switzerland Phones: +41.21.7291636 +41.21.6922911 FAX: +41.21.6923045 email: johannes.bronkhorst at orient.unil.ch David Magier Columbia University From sreeniva at saw.ch Tue Oct 1 07:28:36 1996 From: sreeniva at saw.ch (Sreenivasa S. S. Nittala) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 09:28:36 +0200 Subject: Address Request Message-ID: <161227026178.23782.10975878570605656763.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have a keen interest in the area of Indology (including Sanskritic studies). I have, in the past, come across some works of Prof. Johannes Bronkhorst (Univ. of Lausanne, Switzerland). Since I am right now in Switzerland, I have an opportunity to call on him personally. I would appreciate if someone could provide me his complete address (including the Telephone and Fax numbers and possibly e-mail address as well). Thanks & Regards, Sreenivasa (sreeniva at saw.ch) From apzwww at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk Tue Oct 1 11:28:55 1996 From: apzwww at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk (J Ganeri) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 12:28:55 +0100 Subject: Matilal conference in Indian Philosophy Message-ID: <161227026183.23782.8022808621467093046.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ***Conference Announcement*** Persons, Time and Paradox 2nd Matilal Conference in Indian Philosophy Saturday November 16 1996, 10am - 6.30pm The Council Room, King's College London 10.00 - 10.30 Registration and Welcome 10.30 - 11.40 'The Inexpressibility Paradox in BhartRhari's Philosophy' Jan Houben (Leiden) and Mark Sainsbury (KCL) 11.50 - 1.00 'The Sense of the Self' Galen Strawson (Oxford) and Tony Pitson (Stirling) 1.20 - 2.20 Lunch Break 2.20 - 3.50 'Social Life, Narrative and Language without Persons' Steven Collins (Chicago) and Derek Parfit (Oxford) 4.00 - 5.10 'Time and the Self in Greek Thought' Joe Sen (KCL) and Richard Sorabji (KCL) 5.20 - 6.30 'Time, Self and Consciousness in the Brahminical Tradition' Anindita Balslev (Copenhagen) and C. Ram Prasad (Oxford) The conference will be held in the Council Room, King's. There will be a small entrance fee (waged: L10, unwaged: L4), which will include a sandwich lunch. Registration is on the door. For further details contact Jonardon Ganeri, Department of Philosophy, University of Nottingham, Nottingham NG7 2RD. Tel: 0115-951-5848. E-mail: Jonardon.Ganeri at nottingham.ac.uk. Conference participants are invited to join the speakers for diner (c. L20) - please let me know before 1.11.96. [JG 29.9.96] From KJKARTTU at Elo.Helsinki.fi Tue Oct 1 13:08:38 1996 From: KJKARTTU at Elo.Helsinki.fi (KJKARTTU) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 13:08:38 +0000 Subject: bhagavadgita in Russian Message-ID: <161227026180.23782.14808132466007266532.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:46:53 BST >Reply-to: indology at liverpool.ac.uk >From: Boris Oguibenine >To: Members of the list >Subject: Re: bhagavadgita in Russian > >On Sun, 18 Aug 1996 18:08:51 BST, Hans G. Tuerstig wrote: > >>Does anyone know whether there exists a translation of the >Bhagavadgita >>into Russian? >>Thanks. >>Hans-Georg Tuerstig > >What is the use of a Russian translation you think of? I read the >Smirnov >translation long ago and find it rather plain. > >Regards, > > >Boris Oguibenine > > Gita in Russian, reply to Tuerstig Oguibenin is probably right, but if you really need to know, there are at least following versions of the Gita in Russian: Baguat-Geta ili besedy Krishny c Arzhunom s primechanijami, perevedennye s podlinnika, pisannogo na drevnem braminskom jazyke, nazyvaemom sanskritta, na anglijskij a s ego na rossijskij jazyk A. A. Petrovym. 213 p. M. 1788 (from Wilkins' English version). Bhagavad-gita (misticheskaja chast' Magabharaty). Per. v stihah i primech. A. P. Kaznacheevoj. 108 p. Vladimir 1909. "Bhagavad-gita (Pesn' gospodnja). Per. s sanskrit I. Manciarli. Pererabot. i predisl. Alba", in Vestnik teosofii, St.P. 1909:11 - 1911:4. Mahabharata. Vol. 2. Bhagavadgita. Bukv. i lit. perevod, vved. i primech. B. L. Smirnova. 361 p. Ashhabad 1956 (from Sanskrit). New ed. ibid. 1960. I am not sure, whether the Gita translated by T. Chhenkeli and published in Tbilisi 1963 is in Russian or Georgian. I must emphasize that all this information is culled out from bibliographical notices given in the Bibliografija Indii (Moscow 1976), I have not read, and probably never seen any of them (if not Smirnov, but then not opened) Klaus Karttunen From raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu Wed Oct 2 01:03:31 1996 From: raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (Narayan S. Raja) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 15:03:31 -1000 Subject: New Message Message-ID: <161227026194.23782.17449107227029889874.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Peter J. Claus wrote: > A colleague asked me about the significance of the > repeated phrase in a particular Buddhist sutra. It > begins each of the discourses of the Buddha, after he > arrived at a meeting place and is greeted. The phrase > is translated: > > "He (the questioner) bared his right shoulder and > clasped his hands ...." > > What is the significance of "baring the right > shoulder"? It is not, to my knowledge, a practice > found generally in India today, nor even in > ethnographic literature. In some South Indian temples (especially in Kerala, but also in Tamil Nadu) males are required to remove their upper body clothing before entering the temple. An example is the famous Guruvayoor temple in Kerala. Also, when meeting the "Aandavan", a highly-respected religious figure among the Tamil Srivaishnava community, it was proper respectful etiquette for all of us males to remove our upper clothing and be bare-chested. I have no idea if this custom is directly related to the practice mentioned in your Buddhist sutra, but based on my upbringing, I would have imagined that it is a similar gesture of respect. Regards, Raja. From gateway2 at xs4all.nl Tue Oct 1 13:19:59 1996 From: gateway2 at xs4all.nl (Gateway Multimedia India Ltd.) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 15:19:59 +0200 Subject: Hindi-English dictionary on CD-ROM Message-ID: <161227026187.23782.7842109641766067588.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Although I very well realise that commercial announcements don't belong on Indology, I dare to take this step for the very reason that the product and its sale serves Indology more on the long term than many other discussions. We are talking about the Hindi-English dictionary on CD-ROM. This CD-ROM has been developed by the very same people that are at present working in Ahmedabad, Gujarat, on a multilingual database containing the Indian national languages linked to the major European ones, each language in its respective scripts. We are a small non-subsidised company tackling this challenging project for the very reason that we enjoy it, but also because we very well realise that it serves a purpose! It serves INDIA ! This CD-ROM can be purchased for $ 175,-- or the equivalant of this amount in your local currency. Please contact: Sangeeta S. Parikh Gateway Multimedia India at: gmi/ahmedabad at dartmail.dartnet.com or Henk W. Wagenaar at: gateway2 at xs4all.nl From somdev.vasudeva at oriental-institute.oxford.ac.uk Tue Oct 1 15:59:35 1996 From: somdev.vasudeva at oriental-institute.oxford.ac.uk (Somdev Vasudeva) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 16:59:35 +0100 Subject: reviews of the Ca.n.damahaaro.sa.natantra Message-ID: <161227026189.23782.9874770500242463638.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indology members: On behalf of Dr.Harunaga Isaacson who recieves but can not currently post to the list may I enquire if anyone recalls seeing a review of C.S George's edition of the Ca.n.damahaaro.sa.natantra, first eight chapters, American Oriental Series Vol.56. New Haven 1974. Thank you for your assistance. From pclaus at haywire.csuhayward.edu Wed Oct 2 00:42:38 1996 From: pclaus at haywire.csuhayward.edu (Peter J. Claus) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 17:42:38 -0700 Subject: New Message Message-ID: <161227026191.23782.13343887123803038800.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Date: October 1, 1996 Indology List indology at Liverpool.ac.uk Dear Members, A colleague asked me about the significance of the repeated phrase in a particular Buddhist sutra. It begins each of the discourses of the Buddha, after he arrived at a meeting place and is greeted. The phrase is translated: "He (the questioner) bared his right shoulder and clasped his hands ...." What is the significance of "baring the right shoulder"? It is not, to my knowledge, a practice found generally in India today, nor even in ethnographic literature. It would seem that the clothing worn which would be removed to "bare the right shoulder" would be the robe which monks distinctively wore. Would that mean that the gesture only occurred (perhaps somewhat anachronistically) within the monastic community? Does anyone know the origin of the robe and this gesture? Is it perhaps Greek? Isn't the robe found in Buddhist sculpture only in the Greek-influenced Gandharan school? Peter J. Claus fax: (510) 704-9636 pclaus at csuhayward.edu From vidya at cco.caltech.edu Wed Oct 2 01:31:14 1996 From: vidya at cco.caltech.edu (Vidyasankar Sundaresan) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 18:31:14 -0700 Subject: New Message Message-ID: <161227026196.23782.18334539721170517412.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > "He (the questioner) bared his right shoulder and > clasped his hands ...." > > What is the significance of "baring the right > shoulder"? It is not, to my knowledge, a practice > found generally in India today, nor even in > ethnographic literature. Among south Indian Brahmins, the upper garment may be worn covering both shoulders, or in the manner of the upavIta, leaving the right shoulder bare. When approaching a guru or an elder, the upper garment is completely removed and tied around the waist, as a mark of respect. When sitting and talking with a monk, the upper garment, if not tied around the waist, is worn in the upavIta fashion, leaving the right shoulder bare. Covering both shoulders (or equivalently, wearing a shirt) is considered a sign of disrespect. This is expected behavior among gr.hasthas, when visiting a temple, when receiving an honored guest, and in general when approaching any monk. These customs are still followed in the south. There is possibly some connection to the practice mentioned in the Buddhist sutras, if it is a general cultural phenomenon. This presumes certain enduring attitudes about an upper garment, even if it has changed its form over the ages, e.g. from a robe to a shirt. S. Vidyasankar From mbose at unixg.ubc.ca Wed Oct 2 03:20:19 1996 From: mbose at unixg.ubc.ca (Mandakranta Bose) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 20:20:19 -0700 Subject: The Bhagavad Gita in Arabic Message-ID: <161227026201.23782.11545186682325987743.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Some of you may be interested to learn that my late father Dr. Makhan Lal Roy Choudhury, Professor of Islamic History and Culture in Calcutta University, translated the Gita into Arabic, with a critical introduction and notes in 1951. The title of the translation is AL-KITA. It was published in Calcutta by Mssrs. Thacker Spink & Co. Mandakranta Bose Religious Studies University of British Columbia From mrabe at artic.edu Wed Oct 2 11:28:05 1996 From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 06:28:05 -0500 Subject: Upper body clothing ... Message-ID: <161227026218.23782.1760145049182136061.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Peter et al., Though not a South Indian brahmin, I too wish to comment on your Buddhist sutra passage. Whether or not this mode of leaving the right shoulder bare finds mention in Buddhist vinaya texts I cannot say, but that would be a good direction to look. Nevertheless, throughout the history of Buddhist sculpture this mode of dress is extremely common--most frequently, I would hazard to generalize, for seated images of the buddha. Perhaps this feature is associated with teaching, or if the questioner too is dressed this way, with learned conversation--i.e., with the right free of the robe for declamatory gestures. And there is a Gandharan link to Hellenistic practice. Several of the stucco sculptures of Hadda, Afghanistan, show the monastic robe over both shoulders, but with the right hand rather awkwardly extending out from the top to make an abhaya mudra. Given their provenance it is reasonable to that these images, together with the Corinthain order pilasters that frame them, "betray" an indebtedness to the West. In the Vatican collection, for example, there is a famous standing potrait of Sophocles dressed this way, his right hand raised through the upper hem of his toga, presumbaly for rhetorical gesticulation. However, this Gandharan/Hellenistic variation is quite distinct really,from the pratice of wrapping the upavita upper cloth over just the left shoulder. For this initial mode of your query, the earliest surviving precedent comes from Mohenjo-daro, on the portrait of the bearded man with down-cast eyes (as if practicing yoga), presently in the National Museum, New Delhi. With thanks for the sutra reference, Michael Rabe >>On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Peter J. Claus wrote: >> >> A colleague asked me about the significance of the >> repeated phrase in a particular Buddhist sutra. It >> begins each of the discourses of the Buddha, after he >> arrived at a meeting place and is greeted. The phrase >> is translated: >> >> "He (the questioner) bared his right shoulder and >> clasped his hands ...." >> >> What is the significance of "baring the right >> shoulder"? It is not, to my knowledge, a practice >> found generally in India today, nor even in >> ethnographic literature. >> From zysk at is2.nyu.edu Wed Oct 2 11:16:26 1996 From: zysk at is2.nyu.edu (Kenneth G. Zysk) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 07:16:26 -0400 Subject: panca-parvan again Message-ID: <161227026216.23782.491172031729595161.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Ashok gave me a reference to panca-parva in the Yogasutra. For that, I am most grateful. However, the panca-parvan with which I need help derives from the tradition of jyotihsastra, and refers to five changes, including the time of the new and full moons. Specifically, I would like to know what the five are, and where in the literature they are mentioned. parvan here is neut. noun. Many thanks again. Ken From bala at biomechanics.asri.edu Wed Oct 2 12:23:34 1996 From: bala at biomechanics.asri.edu (bala at biomechanics.asri.edu) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 08:23:34 -0400 Subject: Upper body clothing ... Message-ID: <161227026220.23782.9324272642327199803.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > From indology-request at liverpool.ac.uk Tue Oct 1 23:02 EDT 1996 > Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:03:32 -0300 (BST) > From: Das Menon > Subject: Re:Upper body clothing ... > To: Members of the list > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Originator: indology at liverpool.ac.uk > X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas > X-Comment: Indology mailing list > > > In Kerala the traditional attaire of the male is "dhothi" and > "angavasthram". Traditionally the angavasthram is removed from one's > shoulder and tied around the waist before entering temples etc. Today , as > far as I know, all temples allow the male to keep the angavasthram over the > upper boady, except for the Sri Padmanabhaswamy Temple in Trivandrum, which > is still a private temple belonging to the Trivandrum royal family. > > But in the temples of Northern India, once enters the temples fully clothed! > > I have no idea whether this is related to the Buddhist custom. > > Regards....Das > Many temples in Karnataka and Andhra also allow people fully clothed to enter the sanctorum. Tirupati, is one famous example. -Bala. From gat4 at columbia.edu Wed Oct 2 12:45:46 1996 From: gat4 at columbia.edu (Gary Alan Tubb) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 08:45:46 -0400 Subject: panca-parvan again Message-ID: <161227026225.23782.8498055682132539676.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> V. S. Apte gives a verse listing the five parvans in his Practical Sanskrit-English Dictionary, s.v. pa~nca-parvan, as follows: caturda"sy a.s.tamii caiva amaavaasyaa ca puur.nimaa parvaa.ny etaani raajendra ravisa.mkraantir eva ca The subject is covered in detail by P. V. Kane in his History of Dharmashastra. On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Kenneth G. Zysk wrote: > > Ashok gave me a reference to panca-parva in the Yogasutra. For that, I am > most grateful. However, the panca-parvan with which I need help derives > from the tradition of jyotihsastra, and refers to five changes, including > the time of the new and full moons. Specifically, I would like to know > what the five are, and where in the literature they are mentioned. parvan > here is neut. noun. Many thanks again. Ken > > > > > From pdb1 at columbia.edu Wed Oct 2 13:34:33 1996 From: pdb1 at columbia.edu (Peter D Banos) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 09:34:33 -0400 Subject: Publications Message-ID: <161227026227.23782.17151813970988191667.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, nagata keisuke wrote: > $BFA1J at h@8(B > > $B%a!<%k$NFbMF$r3NG'CW$7$^$7$?!#(B > > 10/2 $B1JED(B Soo desu ka? -Peter D. Banos pdb1 at columbia.edu "Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia... in our own languages we hear them speaking about God's deeds of power." From l.m.fosse at internet.no Wed Oct 2 08:39:44 1996 From: l.m.fosse at internet.no (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 09:39:44 +0100 Subject: Hindi-English dictionary on CD-ROM Message-ID: <161227026206.23782.7050176416338791298.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >We are talking about the Hindi-English dictionary on CD-ROM. > >This CD-ROM has been developed by the very same people that are at present >working in Ahmedabad, Gujarat, on a multilingual database containing the >Indian national languages linked to the major European ones, each language >in its respective scripts. > >This CD-ROM can be purchased for $ 175,-- or the equivalant of this amount >in your local currency. May I ask the following question: How many words are registered in this database? More specifically: How many Hindi terms are registered? As a comparison, McGregor's Hindi-English Dictionary contains more than 70,000 entries. Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse From AmitaSarin at aol.com Wed Oct 2 13:59:59 1996 From: AmitaSarin at aol.com (AmitaSarin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 09:59:59 -0400 Subject: Baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026230.23782.7367196656585813282.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Regarding Peter Claus' question about the Buddhist practice of baring the right shoulder: This practice seems to date back to the Indus Valley civilization. The famous bust (National Museum Karachi) of the "priest" wears a shawl or robe-type garment, sculpted with trefoil motifs. It covers his back and left shoulder, sloping across the chest to under the right arm, but leaving the right shoulder bare. In circumambulating a stupa or shrine, isn't it the right shoulder that is pointed towards the sacred object? Regards, Amita Sarin From raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu Wed Oct 2 20:03:54 1996 From: raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (Narayan S. Raja) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 10:03:54 -1000 Subject: Baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026244.23782.12395036368955107831.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Girish Beeharry wrote: > I would have thought the same too. However, in the case of the deity being > too close to the back wall, one has to rotate clockwise (once or thrice > etc but never twice; I wonder why) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Among the Tamil Srivaishnava community, one has to go around, or bow down, an EVEN (never ODD) number of times. So this custom is different among different communities. Regards, Raja. From Francois.Voegeli at orient.unil.ch Wed Oct 2 10:52:53 1996 From: Francois.Voegeli at orient.unil.ch (Francois.Voegeli at orient.unil.ch) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 10:52:53 +0000 Subject: New Indian and Buddhist Studies Web Site Message-ID: <161227026214.23782.12323580419318902729.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Members of the list, The Department of Oriental Languages and Civilisations of the University of Lausanne (Switzerland) has recently set up its own Web site at the following URL: http://www.unil.ch/orient This site is best viewed with a frame-capable browser but a full version of it exists also for non frame-capable browsers. It is also fully bilingual (French-English ;-). It contains informations about the activities of our Dept., personal data of the teaching staff, etc. but also some subjects which could be of greater importance to the researcher's community. Among them a list of Indological and Buddhist Studies Resources on the Internet and some other niceties of the Net for scholars, Web page designers etc. There is also a page we made on behalf of our French colleague Dr. Gerschheimer. This page contains scans of a manuscript about which Dr Gerschheimer has some questions to ask to the "wired" community of researchers. It is a kind of experience we want to make to see how much the Web can be useful to solve researcher's problems. If other members of this list (or aquaintances of members of this list) have similar problems in the field of manuscript identification, we could host scans of mss and construct W3 pages for their queries. (For details about how this could be done, please mail the Webmaster of our Dept.). Finally we would like this site to be somewhat "interactive", so if you know of an interesting URL we could add to our list, for example, let us know. Any comments on our site is of course welcomed! Francois Voegeli Fac. des lettres Section de langues et civilisations orientales Universite de Lausanne BFSH 2 CH-1015 Tel.: (41.21) 692-2721 Fax.: (41.21) 692-3045 E-mail: Francois.Voegeli at orient.unil.ch From dmenon at pacific.net.sg Wed Oct 2 02:57:19 1996 From: dmenon at pacific.net.sg (Das Menon) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 10:57:19 +0800 Subject: Upper body clothing ... Message-ID: <161227026198.23782.8937446109077036553.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In Kerala the traditional attaire of the male is "dhothi" and "angavasthram". Traditionally the angavasthram is removed from one's shoulder and tied around the waist before entering temples etc. Today , as far as I know, all temples allow the male to keep the angavasthram over the upper boady, except for the Sri Padmanabhaswamy Temple in Trivandrum, which is still a private temple belonging to the Trivandrum royal family. But in the temples of Northern India, once enters the temples fully clothed! I have no idea whether this is related to the Buddhist custom. Regards....Das >On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Peter J. Claus wrote: > > A colleague asked me about the significance of the > repeated phrase in a particular Buddhist sutra. It > begins each of the discourses of the Buddha, after he > arrived at a meeting place and is greeted. The phrase > is translated: > > "He (the questioner) bared his right shoulder and > clasped his hands ...." > > What is the significance of "baring the right > shoulder"? It is not, to my knowledge, a practice > found generally in India today, nor even in > ethnographic literature. > From francois at sas.ac.uk Wed Oct 2 10:30:52 1996 From: francois at sas.ac.uk (Francois Quiviger) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 11:30:52 +0100 Subject: Bookstores in Calcutta Message-ID: <161227026210.23782.15835777132471292580.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, I will spend some times in Calcutta next December. I wonder whether anyone could suggest the name and address of some good academic book shops. With many thanks in adavnce Francois Quiviger Warburg Institute University of London From mani at shasta.Stanford.EDU Wed Oct 2 18:49:50 1996 From: mani at shasta.Stanford.EDU (Mani Varadarajan) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 11:49:50 -0700 Subject: Baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026238.23782.2001064375883672997.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > In circumambulating a stupa or shrine, isn't it the right shoulder that is > pointed towards the sacred object? Yes, but the shoulder is not the reason one circumambulates clockwise. Rather, it is just to keep the holy shrine or deity to the right of one's self at all times, as a sign of respect. As is well known, the poor left hand is kept out of the way due to its use for certain cleansing tasks. Mani Varadarajan From martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de Wed Oct 2 10:49:54 1996 From: martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de (Fco. Javier Mart177nez Garc177a) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 11:49:54 +0100 Subject: article Message-ID: <161227026208.23782.10615650713354937302.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Pratap, I have been reading very old mails and I found the one I forward to you. As I told you, something confusing has happened with my article, and I hope the Gods will help me further! Best regards and many thanks J. > > Dear Dr Martinez: > > Sorry for the delay in responding. I should have let you know that a few > days ago. Yes your article with the disk has arrived. Here is the > confirmation of the acceptance of your article to be published in our > Journal of the Indological Society of Southern Africa in December 1996 > issue. Sorry again for the delay. > > Pratap > > >Dear Dr Kumar: > >I have sent you per s-mail the article with a floppy. Have you received > >it? > >with best regards, > >J. Martinez > > +----------------------------------------------------------------+ > Dr. P. Kumar > Department of Hindu Studies & Indian Philosophy > University of Durban-Westville > Private Bag X 54001 > Durban > 4000 > South Africa > Tel: 031-820-2194 > Fax: 031-820-2160 > Email: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr. Fco. Javier Martinez Garcia Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft | tel. +49- 69- 7982 2847 Universitdt Frankfurt | (sekr.) +49- 69- 7982 3139 Postfach 11 19 32 | fax. +49- 69- 7982 2873 D-60054 Frankfurt | martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From thillaud at unice.fr Wed Oct 2 10:40:12 1996 From: thillaud at unice.fr (thillaud at unice.fr) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 12:40:12 +0200 Subject: New Message Message-ID: <161227026212.23782.8186528836620886669.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >It would seem that the clothing worn which would be >removed to "bare the right shoulder" would be the robe >which monks distinctively wore. Would that mean that >the gesture only occurred (perhaps somewhat >anachronistically) within the monastic community? > >Does anyone know the origin of the robe and this >gesture? Is it perhaps Greek? Isn't the robe found in >Buddhist sculpture only in the Greek-influenced >Gandharan school? Namaste! I'll put my oar in with a mythological remark: The cutting of ennemy's right arm and shoulder is very well attested in some indo-european traditions (examples in the Beowulf or in a Scythian ritual related by Herodotus). If related, the gesture would be clearly a submissive attitude (see too the 'shake hand'). Just a track. Who will be the hunter ? (perhaps a search in indian epic would be fruitful ...) Friendly, -------------------------------------------------------------- Dominique Thillaud - Universite de Nice - Sophia Antipolis email : thillaud at unice.fr From k52874 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Oct 2 03:52:32 1996 From: k52874 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp (nagata keisuke) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 12:52:32 +0900 Subject: Publications Message-ID: <161227026203.23782.10320742681153602245.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> $BFA1J at h@8(B $B%a!<%k$NFbMF$r3NG'CW$7$^$7$?!#(B 10/2 $B1JED(B From dlusthau at mailer.fsu.edu Wed Oct 2 16:57:37 1996 From: dlusthau at mailer.fsu.edu (dlusthau at mailer.fsu.edu) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 12:57:37 -0400 Subject: Upper body clothing ... Message-ID: <161227026232.23782.8505353322651276639.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Leaving the right shoulder uncovered is indeed prescribed for monks and nuns in the vinaya, and is usually understood as a "middle way" between the "sky-clad" non-attire of the Jains and nonrenunciant dress. Clerical attire was/is prescribed in great detail, from the types of robes and undergarments, to the color (saffron), to whether sandals could be worn (at first, no sandals, then sandals were allowed). I'm not familiar with any sutras that specifically say that someone bared their shoulder to ask a question, but in may have done as sign of respect for sramana-hood. Incidentally, when Buddhist monks began entering China, the Chinese found the bare shoulder scandalous, tantamount to parading around naked in public. As a result the dress code came to be modified in East Asia. Tibetan monks also leave the shoulder uncovered by their main robe, but wear an undergarment (usually of a different color) that keeps their shoulder and chest warm. Dan Lusthaus Department of Religion Florida State University Tallahassee, FL 32306-1029 Ph: (904)644-0210 Email: dlusthau at mailer.fsu.edu Fax: (904)644-7225 From athr at loc.gov Wed Oct 2 17:54:30 1996 From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 13:54:30 -0400 Subject: Baring the shoulder (Was: New Message) Message-ID: <161227026235.23782.11543680302417356480.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> One might more widely say that in general it is an ancient India custom to uncover the upper body in front of superiors, including deities. Thus in many temples men must uncover the entire upper body. In South India (Kerala, I believe) earlier in this century this became a matter of considerable turmoil when Christian Untouchable women were urged by the clergy to wear bodices but the brahmins objected to their uppitiness in keeping covered before their superiors. Allen W. Thrasher The opinions expressed do not represent those of my employer. On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Vidyasankar Sundaresan wrote: > > > "He (the questioner) bared his right shoulder and > > clasped his hands ...." > > > > What is the significance of "baring the right > > shoulder"? It is not, to my knowledge, a practice > > found generally in India today, nor even in > > ethnographic literature. > > Among south Indian Brahmins, the upper garment may be worn covering both > shoulders, or in the manner of the upavIta, leaving the right shoulder > bare. When approaching a guru or an elder, the upper garment is completely > removed and tied around the waist, as a mark of respect. When sitting and > talking with a monk, the upper garment, if not tied around the waist, is > worn in the upavIta fashion, leaving the right shoulder bare. Covering > both shoulders (or equivalently, wearing a shirt) is considered a sign of > disrespect. This is expected behavior among gr.hasthas, when visiting a > temple, when receiving an honored guest, and in general when approaching > any monk. These customs are still followed in the south. > > There is possibly some connection to the practice mentioned in the > Buddhist sutras, if it is a general cultural phenomenon. This presumes > certain enduring attitudes about an upper garment, even if it has changed > its form over the ages, e.g. from a robe to a shirt. > > S. Vidyasankar > > > From Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za Wed Oct 2 14:38:00 1996 From: Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za (Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 14:38:00 +0000 Subject: article Message-ID: <161227026223.23782.9960891654203487394.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Dear Pratap, >I have been reading very old mails and I found the one I forward to you. >As I told you, something confusing has happened with my article, and I >hope the Gods will help me further! > >Best regards and many thanks >J. > Dear Javier, Yes, I did receive it, but I seem to have misplaced it and could not locate the English version, I am sure it will surface when I am finished with it. In the mean time I was running out of time and had to trouble you one more time. But any away not worry now. Everything is under control. I am physically typing the article myself because of the technical details. I also got the one you sent on email as attachment. But the fonts are not compatible so I have decided to retype. The only proble I have is in the greek word "dorfat" I dont seem to have a key that can produce the exact symbol you got there for "f" in the greek word "dorfat". So, I am going to use a modified "f" for it. I hope it would look okay. So, not to worry, and cheers, Pratap +----------------------------------------------------------------+ Prof. P. Kumar (Associate Professor) Head of Department of Science of Religion Director - Centre for Asian Studies University of Durban-Westville Private Bag X 54001 Durban 4000 South Africa Tel: 031-820-2194 Fax: 031-820-2160 Email: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za From vasu at religion.ufl.edu Wed Oct 2 21:36:43 1996 From: vasu at religion.ufl.edu (vasu at religion.ufl.edu) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 17:36:43 -0400 Subject: Baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026246.23782.5397248971334258578.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Girish Beeharry wrote: >> I would have thought the same too. However, in the case of the deity being >> too close to the back wall, one has to rotate clockwise (once or thrice >> etc but never twice; I wonder why) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Among the Tamil Srivaishnava community, >one has to go around, or bow down, an >EVEN (never ODD) number of times. So >this custom is different among different >communities. >Regards, >Raja. I was waiting for a Tenkalai Sri Vaishnava to speak up, but since no one has, I shall venture to give their take on this matter. The Tenkalais *only* bow down once before the deity; they feel that to repeatedly bow two or four times (like the Vatakalai Sri Vaishnavas) smacks of not having faith the first time (sounds Calvinistic/Shinran-ish to me). If you bow down more than once, you are nagging Vishnu to give you protection. They cite Ramayana Yuddha Kanda 18:33 in support of this practice; Rama, after Vibhisana's saranagati, says that if anyone surrenders to him just once, he will award him fearlessness ("sakrdeva prapannaya ..."). I've heard Professor A.K. Ramanujan cite his old aunt on this issue-- she would apparently quote this line and say firmly: "Once, bow down just once; don't hurt his [Rama's] heart." >Vasudha Narayanan > > From 6500carp at ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu Thu Oct 3 01:46:58 1996 From: 6500carp at ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (C.A. Coleman) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 18:46:58 -0700 Subject: Baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026251.23782.10980569150117011020.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Mani Varadarajan wrote: > Yes, but the shoulder is not the reason one circumambulates > clockwise. Rather, it is just to keep the holy shrine or deity > to the right of one's self at all times, as a sign of respect. > As is well known, the poor left hand is kept out of the way due > to its use for certain cleansing tasks. Doesn't circumambulating by the right, that is, clockwise, also mark the passage of sacred time--something about the story of the Buddha engraved into a stupa wall, so you follow the history clockwise? CA Coleman UC, Santa Barbara "It is madness to wear ladies' straw hats and velvet hats to church; we should all be wearing crash helmets." --Annie Dillard _Teaching a Stone to Talk_ From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 2 19:26:55 1996 From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 20:26:55 +0100 Subject: Baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026241.23782.4731857244007549815.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Mani Varadarajan wrote: > > In circumambulating a stupa or shrine, isn't it the right shoulder that is > > pointed towards the sacred object? > > Yes, but the shoulder is not the reason one circumambulates > clockwise. Rather, it is just to keep the holy shrine or deity > to the right of one's self at all times, as a sign of respect. > As is well known, the poor left hand is kept out of the way due > to its use for certain cleansing tasks. > I would have thought the same too. However, in the case of the deity being too close to the back wall, one has to rotate clockwise (once or thrice etc but never twice; I wonder why) in front of the deity; this is a bit contradictory to the previous statement. Can anyone solve this 'problem' please? Thanks. In the North, sometimes the following shloka is uttered while circumnabulating the deity: yaani kaani cha paapaani janmaantara kR^itaaNi cha | taani taani vinashyanti pradakshiNa pade pade || I am curious as to what the South people/Buddhists say. Thanks in advance. Bye, Girish Beeharry From Claude_Setzer at fcsmtp.mum.edu Thu Oct 3 04:49:48 1996 From: Claude_Setzer at fcsmtp.mum.edu (Claude_Setzer at fcsmtp.mum.edu) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 22:49:48 -0600 Subject: Baring the Right Shoulder Message-ID: <161227026253.23782.14155686336898150391.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Raja said: >Among the Tamil Srivaishnava community, >one has to go around, or bow down, an >EVEN (never ODD) number of times. So >this custom is different among different >communities. Unless "Tamil" excludes the Tenkalai Sri Vaishnavas, then this is not correct. The Tenkalais make a big point of only bowing once, although the forehaed may be touched to the ground in three places during that one bow. Also there are many occasions where it is correct to circumambulate an odd number of times: 1,3,7. Claude Setzer -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods! ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From thillaud at unice.fr Wed Oct 2 23:20:47 1996 From: thillaud at unice.fr (thillaud at unice.fr) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 01:20:47 +0200 Subject: Baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026248.23782.16424130293881988271.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >> In circumambulating a stupa or shrine, isn't it the right shoulder that is >> pointed towards the sacred object? > >Yes, but the shoulder is not the reason one circumambulates >clockwise. Rather, it is just to keep the holy shrine or deity >to the right of one's self at all times, as a sign of respect. >As is well known, the poor left hand is kept out of the way due >to its use for certain cleansing tasks. I'm sorry but I can't agree. The anjali too is a mark of respect and both hands are visible! And, as French, I'm not hinduist (except, as scholar, a true devotion towards Ganesha) but I suppose you are everyway clean before any religious act. Otherwise, to make the pradaksina is not specifically an indian ritual: we have celtic and latin testimonies and, very recently in France, ritual processions made the pradaksina around fountains (Louis Dumont, La Tarasque). And in France, there is no restriction on the use of the left hand. Alas, I would like but I don't know the original meaning of the pradaksina (I don't believe the old idea of the running of the sun). At last, back to the original question, I think, as dumezilian, that: 1) we can't dissociate freely the naked shoulder and the hand clapping! 2) we need the true text, not just a english translation! 3) and if the text says: "he bared his right shoulder", that prove the type of garment has nothing to do with the gesture (if your shoulder is already naked, you can't do it). Friendly, -------------------------------------------------------------- Dominique Thillaud - Universite de Nice - Sophia Antipolis email : thillaud at unice.fr From pclaus at haywire.csuhayward.edu Thu Oct 3 13:14:21 1996 From: pclaus at haywire.csuhayward.edu (Peter J. Claus) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 06:14:21 -0700 Subject: New Message Message-ID: <161227026262.23782.586931513312645910.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Date: October 3, 1996 Indology List indology at Liverpool.ac.uk Dear Members My colleague and I would like to thank all of you for the insights you have provided on the formulaic phrase and gesture of "baring the right shoulder" when addressing the Buddha. Particularly significant, I think, is the MahenjoDaro sculpture and I am thankful for the reminder. It seems to me that it evidences the same distinctive practice found later in the Buddhist monastaries, and certainly pre-dates any Greek influences. One wishes there were more representation in the art of that period in order to be able to assess whether it was a garmet and gesture derived from general practice or whether it already was a mark of monastic institutions. I am not sure that the South Indian practice at some temples of removing the upper garmet is 'the same' gesture, but it may be an equivalent. Incidentally, my colleague encountered the phrase in the Chinese "Mugadeglyana Sutra" which she translated to English as given in the original message. There is always the possibility of going astray in third or fourth level translation, but her curiousity was peaked by the phrase because (as mentioned in one of the comments) it would be a rather uncouth gesture in China. Again, we thank you all. Peter J. Claus fax: (510) 704-9636 pclaus at csuhayward.edu From Francois.Voegeli at orient.unil.ch Thu Oct 3 08:56:22 1996 From: Francois.Voegeli at orient.unil.ch (Francois.Voegeli at orient.unil.ch) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 08:56:22 +0000 Subject: Baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026258.23782.12297967713017161828.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:25:36 BST, Dominique Thillaud wrote: >Otherwise, to make the pradaksina is not specifically an indian ritual: we >have celtic and latin testimonies and, very recently in France, ritual ^^^^^^ >processions made the pradaksina around fountains (Louis Dumont, La >Tarasque). And in France, there is no restriction on the use of the left >hand. As far as I know the so-called "Celts" never wrote anything about their culture and religious ideas. The only written testimonies we have of them are a few commercial contracts written mainly with the greek alphabet and a few "ogams" here and there, the decipherment of which could still be a matter of debate. So I would like to know where from these testimonies come. Francois Voegeli Fac. des lettres Section de langues et civilisations orientales Universite de Lausanne BFSH 2 CH-1015 Tel.: (41.21) 692-2721 Fax.: (41.21) 692-3045 E-mail: Francois.Voegeli at orient.unil.ch From raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu Thu Oct 3 19:57:31 1996 From: raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (Narayan S. Raja) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 09:57:31 -1000 Subject: Baring the Right Shoulder Message-ID: <161227026269.23782.9226371296250989085.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Claude Setzer wrote: > Raja said: > >Among the Tamil Srivaishnava community, > >one has to go around, or bow down, an > >EVEN (never ODD) number of times. So > >this custom is different among different > >communities. > > Unless "Tamil" excludes the Tenkalai Sri Vaishnavas, then this is not correct. > The Tenkalais make a big point of only bowing once, > although the forehaed may be touched > to the ground in three > places during that one bow. Interesting... in that case, I should say "Tamil Srivaishnava Vadakalai" community. I wasn't aware that Tenkalai customs were so different. Almost a different species... :-) Regards, Raja. From sreeniva at saw.ch Thu Oct 3 08:13:48 1996 From: sreeniva at saw.ch (Sreenivasa S. S. Nittala) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 10:13:48 +0200 Subject: Baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026255.23782.3832175649111206838.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > Hi, On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Girish Beeharry wrote: > > I would have thought the same too. However, in the case of the deity being > too close to the back wall, one has to rotate clockwise (once or thrice > etc but never twice; I wonder why) in front of the deity; this is a bit > contradictory to the previous statement. Can anyone solve this 'problem' > please? Thanks. > > In the North, sometimes the following shloka is uttered while > circumnabulating the deity: > > yaani kaani cha paapaani janmaantara kR^itaaNi cha | > taani taani vinashyanti pradakshiNa pade pade || > > I am curious as to what the South people/Buddhists say. Thanks in advance. =========================================================== Even in South India, it is the same shloka ("yaani kaani ...") that is chanted. At least I am very sure of the practice in Andhra. This is chanted either while circumnabulating the deity, or sometimes the practice is that one stand erect and starts moving round on the same point (it is not going around the deity but like rotating on a point). Especially in the households, circumnabulating around the deities is not always possible and the person stands facing the deity and while chanting this shloka, moves round. I am not sure of the origin of this shloka. I suppose that it has Vedic origins. This practice is an inevitable feature of any Puja. It is almost as important and as integral a part as starting any ritual by worshipping Lord Ganesha. The chanting goes on beyond this shloka : ("... Paapoham Paapamaatraahimaam Gadavatsale"). Unfortunately, I am unable to exactly reproduce the complete chanting. Thanks & Regards, Sreenivasa (Nittala Sreenivasa Subramanya Sharma) ======= From pemwieser at oeaw.ac.at Thu Oct 3 08:14:35 1996 From: pemwieser at oeaw.ac.at (Monika Pemwieser) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 10:14:35 +0200 Subject: Address Request Message-ID: <161227026260.23782.6836657954547127818.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone on this list know the full addresses (if possible including tel.numbers, fax, e-mail addresses) of 1) Prof. Anna L. Dallapiccola 2) Prof. Kamil V. Zvelebil Many thanks in advance, Monika Pemwieser Pemwieser at oeaw.ac.at From raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu Thu Oct 3 21:47:47 1996 From: raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (Narayan S. Raja) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 11:47:47 -1000 Subject: Q: Upper body clothing outside temple Message-ID: <161227026276.23782.16482566087962586484.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Jakub Cejka wrote: > While reading here about the fact that in southern temples removing upper > clothing is a required gesture of respect, I would like to ask (Indians) > how has the sense that it is otherwise a gesture of disrespect developed ? > > Whenever in India I removed or only unbuttoned my shirt being unable to > bear the heat I was always either laughed at or politely or impolitely > forced to cover my body not by muslims but hindus. When dressed in shorts > I entered the Sanskrit department in a West Bengal university, I was told > that it is not good to come "in dhoti". This particularly puzzled me, > that once shorts are seen as dhoti they are not accepted. The point here is not bare vs. covered, but rather, formal/respectful clothing vs. too informal. Also, it depends who you are. Dhoti/angavastram is formal. Unbuttoned shirt is informal/disrespectful. Even stark naked is acceptable for a Jain monk or Nanga sadhu, though I shudder to think of all those hairs being shed on the ancient palm-leaf scrolls in the Univ Sanskrit department. :-) :-) Regards, Raja. From vidya at cco.caltech.edu Thu Oct 3 20:57:48 1996 From: vidya at cco.caltech.edu (Vidyasankar Sundaresan) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 13:57:48 -0700 Subject: Q: Upper body clothing outside temple Message-ID: <161227026274.23782.9927040167380981211.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > While reading here about the fact that in southern temples removing upper > clothing is a required gesture of respect, I would like to ask (Indians) > how has the sense that it is otherwise a gesture of disrespect developed ? > Blame the Victorian/puritanical mentality that Indian universities and work-places have inherited from the British. Add to it the unwritten rule that an office is a bastion of conservative and /or "Western" values. A student who attends classes dressed in a dhoti and an angavastram (or a kurta) would be ridiculed by his peers and punished by the teacher/headmaster. Jeans + kurta is quite okay in colleges (but not in high schools) but a dhoti + kurta is not. However, at work, you have to be dressed in a suit, or in the so-called "safari". Curiously enough, such sartorial rules apply only to men. A woman who wears a sari to work or to school would be readily accepted. Indians have become quite expert at compartmentalizing these things. For example, in many homes, using your left hand to serve yourself some food is still an absolute no-no. But the same people would use knives and forks and use the left hand without hesitation at an official dinner. S. Vidyasankar From jakub at unipune.ernet.in Thu Oct 3 19:31:56 1996 From: jakub at unipune.ernet.in (Jakub Cejka) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 14:31:56 -0500 Subject: Q: Upper body clothing outside temple Message-ID: <161227026272.23782.10631520878550124418.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> While reading here about the fact that in southern temples removing upper clothing is a required gesture of respect, I would like to ask (Indians) how has the sense that it is otherwise a gesture of disrespect developed ? Whenever in India I removed or only unbuttoned my shirt being unable to bear the heat I was always either laughed at or politely or impolitely forced to cover my body not by muslims but hindus. When dressed in shorts I entered the Sanskrit department in a West Bengal university, I was told that it is not good to come "in dhoti". This particularly puzzled me, that once shorts are seen as dhoti they are not accepted. I appologize a lot for such non-Indological question, but I was always wondering about this: that what is necessary in some temples is considered uncultured in public. Any personal feelings welcome on this on my email address. Thanks J.Cejka ______________________________________________________________________________ Mr. Jakub Cejka Dept. of Sanskrit, University of Pune Ganeshkhind, Pune, India 411 007 e-mail: jakub at unipune.ernet.in (till July 97 the latest) From srini at engin.umich.edu Thu Oct 3 18:53:13 1996 From: srini at engin.umich.edu (Srinivasan Pichumani) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 14:53:13 -0400 Subject: Baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026266.23782.10834407480459425659.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Girish Beeharry wrote: >> I would have thought the same too. However, in the case of the deity being >> too close to the back wall, one has to rotate clockwise (once or thrice >> etc but never twice; I wonder why) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Among the Tamil Srivaishnava community, >one has to go around, or bow down, an >EVEN (never ODD) number of times. So >this custom is different among different >communities. >Regards, >Raja. I was waiting for a Tenkalai Sri Vaishnava to speak up, but since no one has, I shall venture to give their take on this matter. The Tenkalais *only* bow down once before the deity; they feel that to repeatedly bow two or four times (like the Vatakalai Sri Vaishnavas) smacks of not having faith the first time (sounds Calvinistic/Shinran-ish to me). If you bow down more than once, you are nagging Vishnu to give you protection. They cite Ramayana Yuddha Kanda 18:33 in support of this practice; Rama, after Vibhisana's saranagati, says that if anyone surrenders to him just once, he will award him fearlessness ("sakrdeva prapannaya ..."). I've heard Professor A.K. Ramanujan cite his old aunt on this issue-- she would apparently quote this line and say firmly: "Once, bow down just once; don't hurt his [Rama's] heart." Vasudha Narayanan Yes, I too have heard AKR say the same thing about Tenkalai practice... somewhere in a footnote, in his book "Hymns for the drowning", he also quotes a Tenkalai priest from a Madurai temple saying equivalent words like "don't work on the Lord's feelings too hard"... suggesting that 1 and only 1 namaskAram is necessary ! -Srini. From thillaud at unice.fr Thu Oct 3 14:33:44 1996 From: thillaud at unice.fr (thillaud at unice.fr) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 16:33:44 +0200 Subject: Baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026265.23782.15344543275124720838.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Franc,ois Voegeli wrote: >On Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:25:36 BST, Dominique Thillaud wrote: > >>Otherwise, to make the pradaksina is not specifically an indian ritual: we >>have celtic and latin testimonies and, very recently in France, ritual > ^^^^^^ > >As far as I know the so-called "Celts" never wrote anything about their >culture and religious ideas. The only written testimonies we have of them >are a few commercial contracts written mainly with the greek alphabet and a >few "ogams" here and there, the decipherment of which could still be a >matter of debate. >So I would like to know where from these testimonies come. Sorry! I wrote too fastly, using an hyperonymic 'celtic' for 'irish'! The fact I had in mind lies in various versions of the Boand's story, well known after Dumezil's study (Mythe et Epopee III, pp.27-31 with references to irish texts in the notes). This texts imply a moving around a magic well where the direction of the rotation seems significant: "qu'il fit mouvement vers la gauche ou vers la droite" (The Metrical Dindshenchas) - "j'irai trois fois dans le sens contraire du soleil" (Cinaed ua Hartacain's poem on Brugh na Boinne) and this counterclockwise moving fails. I think that's clearly remains of a "circumambulatio" ritual because you must keep in mind that this story is a mythical one about irish gods: Dagda, Nechtan, Oengus, Boand with good sanskrit correspondances for the names (Nechtan / [Apaam] Napaat ; Boand / Govinda). But, for a recent and larger glance on indo-european pradaksina, you can refer to: Bernard SERGENT, Les Indo-Europe'ens, ed. Payot, Paris, 1995, ? 318, pp. 366-367. When Franc,ois Voegeli write: >As far as I know the so-called "Celts" never wrote anything about their ^^^^^^^^^ >culture and religious ideas. The only written testimonies we have of them >are a few commercial contracts written mainly with the greek alphabet and a >few "ogams" here and there, the decipherment of which could still be a >matter of debate. he lump together two branches of the celtic group, gaelic who used early "ogams" and brittonic (specially gallic) who used greek (and latin!) alphabet. Yet, we have many inscriptions (not commercial) and longer texts (Larzac's leads) and we know much better the gallic language (cf Pierre-Yves LAMBERT, La Langue gauloise, ed. Errance, Paris, 1994). About culture and religious ideas, druids wrote nothing, greek and latin authors say few and bias, but theology and epic of the gaels was well compiled and preserved by irish monks in the early Middle Age. The irish and welsh languages themselves are an other source of information and Vendryes have found many correspondances in religious and legal vocabulary between italo-celtic and indo-iranian (the most famous: irish ri, gallic -rix, latin rex, sanskrit raaj-). -------------------------------------------------------------- Dominique Thillaud - Universite de Nice - Sophia Antipolis email : thillaud at unice.fr From srini at engin.umich.edu Thu Oct 3 21:50:29 1996 From: srini at engin.umich.edu (Srinivasan Pichumani) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 17:50:29 -0400 Subject: Baring the Right Shoulder Message-ID: <161227026279.23782.18218271083862991234.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >>I wasn't aware that Tenkalai customs were >>so different. Almost a different species... :-) Gunning for war, eh ??? I have always been intrigued by this Y vs U thingy ;-) Who knows, I may have been a Privy Council member or whomever in my previous avatAra adjudicating on the VaradarAjasvAmi temple elephant's markings (?). On a sober note, I find Patricia Y. Mumme's treatment of the subject in her book, The Srivaisnava theological dispute: Manavalamamuni and Vedanta Desika Madras : New Era Publications, 1988. very informative and enlightening... -a despicable smArta From soumitra at ix.netcom.com Fri Oct 4 03:10:28 1996 From: soumitra at ix.netcom.com (soumitra at ix.netcom.com) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 20:10:28 -0700 Subject: Bookstores in Calcutta Message-ID: <161227026289.23782.15950079169021342151.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> You wrote: > >Dear Indologists, > > I will spend some times in Calcutta next December. I wonder >whether anyone could suggest the name and address of some good academic book >shops. > > With many thanks in adavnce > > > Francois Quiviger > Warburg Institute > University of London > > > Check out the bookshops in College street . Especially Sarat Book House, Dasgupta,Rupa and a whole lot. Check out a tiny little bookshop in JAdavpur , opposite of Jadavpur University and in the 1st floor of Coffee House .But you will get information from the side-walks of College Street. From c_austi at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Oct 4 00:19:11 1996 From: c_austi at alcor.concordia.ca (Chris Austin) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 20:19:11 -0400 Subject: Transl. of Bhojavrtti Message-ID: <161227026281.23782.15157441590233408821.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone know of an English translation of Bhoja's _Bhojavrtti_ (commentary on Patanjali's _Yogasutra_)? I have not been able to find a translation even among those which include Vyasa's, Vacaspatimisra's and Vijnanabhiksu's. Thanks in advance, ______________________________ _ Chris Austin _ _ Concordia University _ _ Department of Religion _ _ Montreal, Canada _ _ c_austi at alcor.concordia.ca _ ______________________________ From vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu Fri Oct 4 02:53:09 1996 From: vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 22:53:09 -0400 Subject: Robes off the right shoulder (was barring the ...) Message-ID: <161227026286.23782.11641512935701805156.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The statement that the mode of wearing a piece of cloth over the left shoulder and under the right shoulder should be traced to the Indus Valley civilization because a statue with such a depiction was found there troubles me. If X is found in IVS and X is found in latter India, does that mean the line of transmission is from IVS to latter India? For example, if we find that women are depicted carrying babies on the left in IVS and since it is the dominant mode of carrying babies today, does that imply the influnece is from IVS to modern day India, not due to some common feature that is not even neccessarily cultural? To get back on topic, how wide spread is this mode of wearing a piece of cloth, either on the bare body, or on another piece of clothing? If memeory serves right, both Roman (toga?) and the Scots wore some piece of cloth over the left and under the right. How did this travel from IVS to Rome and Scotland? -Nath From mrabe at artic.edu Fri Oct 4 08:55:56 1996 From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 96 03:55:56 -0500 Subject: New Message Message-ID: <161227026295.23782.1256706325492733176.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To Peter Claus who wrote: >Date: October 3, 1996 >Particularly significant, I think, is the MahenjoDaro >sculpture and I am thankful for the reminder. It seems >to me that it evidences the same distinctive practice >found later in the Buddhist monastaries, and certainly >pre-dates any Greek influences... I am not >sure that the South Indian practice at some temples of >removing the upper garmet is 'the same' gesture, but it >may be an equivalent. The more so, if the Mohenjo-Daro yogi were Dravidian. ;^) From als1 at midway.uchicago.edu Fri Oct 4 13:38:03 1996 From: als1 at midway.uchicago.edu (william j alspaugh) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 96 08:38:03 -0500 Subject: Transl. of Bhojavrtti Message-ID: <161227026297.23782.1991920893055308537.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In reply to Chris Austin, the LC entry for Bhoja's commentary on the Yogasutra is Bhojaraja, King of Malwa, 11th cent. Rajamartanda. In OCLC there are 24 entries for this title, some of which are translations. The most widely held seems to be J. Ballantyne's translation published by Susil Gupta of Calcutta in 1952. With this info, your ILL librarian should be able to get it for you. William Alspaugh, U. of Chicago South Asia Collection Bitnet: uclals1 at uchimvs1 Internet: als1 at midway.uchicago.edu From dmenon at pacific.net.sg Fri Oct 4 01:41:36 1996 From: dmenon at pacific.net.sg (Das Menon) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 96 09:41:36 +0800 Subject: clockwise circumambulation Message-ID: <161227026284.23782.14734670795957264316.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There is another less known reason for prescribing clockwise circumambulation. This has got to with the fact (as per yogic teaching) that the energy centres in the body (the charkas) are revolving in a clockwise direction. THe clockwise circumambulation helps to keep the charkas in balance. But since the ancients knew that unless one puts fear of God into man, he will not follow any instruction no matter how good it is. The ancient Vedantis had made a fine art of this process. If one were to carefully analyse this and other "religious" practices, one can find instances of many activites that has a religious conotation, but actually has a benefitial effect. Regards...Das At 02:54 AM 10/3/96 BST, you wrote: >On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Mani Varadarajan wrote: > >> Yes, but the shoulder is not the reason one circumambulates >> clockwise. Rather, it is just to keep the holy shrine or deity >> to the right of one's self at all times, as a sign of respect. >> As is well known, the poor left hand is kept out of the way due >> to its use for certain cleansing tasks. From yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp Fri Oct 4 03:31:25 1996 From: yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 96 12:31:25 +0900 Subject: Mahaabhaarata upgraded Message-ID: <161227026292.23782.592257074807882553.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Prof. M. Tokunaga has upgraded his e-text of the Mahaabhaarata. I have replaced the older files in my ftp site by the new ones which Prof. Tokunaga calls version 1_1. My ftp site address is: ccftp.kyoto-su.ac.jp ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ the directory is: pub/doc/sanskrit/mahabharata ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As you see below the files are in two forms, those with .Z are compressed by the standard unix command `compress', thus you should `uncompress' them. Those without .Z are ordinary text files, thus you can directly read them, although some (like m12.1_1) are of huge size. Let us thank again Prof. Muneo Tokunaga! Michio YANO Kyoto Sangyo University yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp yanom at cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp (for private mails) ------------------- FILES ----------------------------- -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 996333 Oct 4 11:50 m1.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 375097 Oct 4 11:48 m1.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 104968 Oct 4 11:51 m10.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 42148 Oct 4 11:34 m10.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 97836 Oct 4 11:51 m11.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 38975 Oct 4 11:34 m11.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 1767998 Oct 4 11:51 m12.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 659282 Oct 4 11:34 m12.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 895040 Oct 4 11:51 m13.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 337705 Oct 4 11:34 m13.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 375226 Oct 4 11:51 m14.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 140969 Oct 4 11:34 m14.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 144004 Oct 4 11:51 m15.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 54753 Oct 4 11:34 m15.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 37432 Oct 4 11:51 m16.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 15951 Oct 4 11:34 m16.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 14555 Oct 4 11:51 m17.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 6573 Oct 4 11:34 m17.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 26448 Oct 4 11:51 m18.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 11330 Oct 4 11:34 m18.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 325248 Oct 4 11:51 m2.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 121307 Oct 4 11:34 m2.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 1426389 Oct 4 11:52 m3.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 536009 Oct 4 11:35 m3.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 253831 Oct 4 11:52 m4.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 96027 Oct 4 11:35 m4.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 842078 Oct 4 11:52 m5.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 316481 Oct 4 11:35 m5.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 741600 Oct 4 11:52 m6.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 268309 Oct 4 11:35 m6.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 1106753 Oct 4 11:52 m7.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 402939 Oct 4 11:35 m7.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 556638 Oct 4 11:52 m8.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 208067 Oct 4 11:35 m8.1_1.Z -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 458359 Oct 4 11:52 m9.1_1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 yanom 170106 Oct 4 11:36 m9.1_1.Z From pwyzlic at pwyz.rhein.de Fri Oct 4 16:38:55 1996 From: pwyzlic at pwyz.rhein.de (pwyzlic) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 96 18:38:55 +0200 Subject: Transl. of Bhojavrtti Message-ID: <161227026299.23782.9553785433507601325.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, william j alspaugh wrote: > In reply to Chris Austin, the LC entry for Bhoja's commentary on the > Yogasutra is Bhojaraja, King of Malwa, 11th cent. Rajamartanda. In OCLC > there are 24 entries for this title, some of which are translations. The > most widely held seems to be J. Ballantyne's translation published by Susil > Gupta of Calcutta in 1952. With this info, your ILL librarian should be able > to get it for you. William Alspaugh, U. of Chicago South Asia Collection James Robert Ballantyne died in the 1860ies (1864 I think), so his translation may be "most widely held" but cannot be the most recent. \bye -- ########################################################################### Peter Wyzlic pwyzlic at pwyz.rhein.de ########################################################################### From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Sat Oct 5 11:49:03 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 96 11:49:03 +0000 Subject: address, etc., request Message-ID: <161227026301.23782.17561208338242842909.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Institute of Asian Studies 377, 10th East Street Tiruvanmiyur MADRAS - 41 Tamil Nadu Tel: +91-44-416728 +91-44-419866 With best wishes Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji Taralabalu Kendra, Bangalore ================================================== ---------- From: Jeyanthy Siva[SMTP:jsiva at uclink3.berkeley.edu] Sent: Friday, September 27, 1996 12:25 AM To: Members of the list Subject: address, etc., request Can someone post the address, phone number and/or e-mail for the Institute of Asian studies in Madras? Thank you very much Jey -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment.bin Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1634 bytes Desc: not available URL: From apandey at u.washington.edu Mon Oct 7 05:19:52 1996 From: apandey at u.washington.edu (Anshuman Pandey) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 96 22:19:52 -0700 Subject: Upanishads and their Vedas. Message-ID: <161227026303.23782.17569724204365102722.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello! I am looking for a comprehensive source which would provide me with a listing of the Upanishads (the "genuine" 108 and perhaps the "ingenuine" ones as well) and the Vedas/Vedic schools to which they belong. I realize that there is one Upanishad which lists all 108 (the name eludes me at the present, Muktikopanishad (?) perhaps), but am unaware as to whether or not it provides the name of the respective Veda from which it comes. I also browsed Renou's 'Vedic Literature' and a few others which outline and classify these types of texts, but was left empty-handed. In any case, I'd much appreciate if anyone could point me in the direction of any sources which would provide me with the information I seek. Thank you! Regards, Anshuman Pandey --- Anshuman Pandey | apandey at u.washington.edu | University of Washington From AmitaSarin at aol.com Mon Oct 7 11:48:03 1996 From: AmitaSarin at aol.com (AmitaSarin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 07:48:03 -0400 Subject: Baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026308.23782.7248657904413653881.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> If memory serves me right, Nanditha Krishna's book: The Art and Iconography of Vishnu Narayana, explores some of the connections between South India and the ancient near east. Undoubtedly, there is a corpus of research literature on this subject. We shouldn't be too surprised if there are similarities between the Indus Valley civilization and practices in South India today. Regards, Amita Sarin From WIKNER at nacdh4.nac.ac.za Mon Oct 7 06:23:48 1996 From: WIKNER at nacdh4.nac.ac.za (Charles Wikner) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 08:23:48 +0200 Subject: Upanishads and their Vedas Message-ID: <161227026305.23782.333970495405919384.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Anshuman Pandey wrote: > I am looking for a comprehensive source which would provide me with a > listing of the Upanishads (the "genuine" 108 and perhaps the "ingenuine" > ones as well) and the Vedas/Vedic schools to which they belong. The attached NEWS item seems to answer your query. Regards, Charles Wikner. wikner at nac.ac.za ___________________________ NEWS item ____________________________ From: gmadras at pinto.engr.ucdavis.edu (Giri) Newsgroups: soc.religion.hindu Subject: Re: upanishads Previously, in this newsgroup and others, there has been some discussion on the authentic 108 upanishhads, and the list found in the muktika upanishhad. Earlier, Vijay Pai had posted a similar list, and here is the modified list (with minor changes, and also now in ITRANS for sanskrit output). Here is the list from the muktika upanishhad. This is narrated by Sri Ramachandra to Hanuman. The only means by which the final emancipation is attained is through maaNDUkya upanishhad alone, which is enough for the salvation for all aspirants. If GYAna is not attained therebym study the 10 upanishhads; thou shalt soon attain GYAna, and then My Seat. O son of ajnjanaa, if thy GYAna is not made firm, practice (study) well the 32 upanishhads. Thou shalt get release. If thou longest after videhamukti, study the 108 upanishhads. I will truly state in order the (names of the) upanishhads with their Shaanti (purificatory mantras). Hearken to them. (They are:) iisha, kena, kaTha, prashna, muNDaka, maaNDukya, taittiriiya, aitareya, chhaandogya, bR^ihadaaraNyaka(10), brahma, kaivalya, jaabaala, shvetaashvatara, ha.nsa, aaruNeya, garbha, naaraayaNa, paramahaMsa, amR^ita\-bindu(20), amR^ita\-naada, atharva\-shira, atharva\-shikha, maitraayaNi, kaushhiitaaki, bR^ihajjaabaala, nR^isiMhataapanii, kaalaagnirudra, maitreyi, subaala(30), kshurika, mantrika, sarva\-saara, niraalamba, shuka\-rahasya, vajra\-suuchika, tejo\-bindu, naada\-bindu, dhyaanabindu, brahmavidyaa(40), yogatattva, aatmabodha, parivraat (naaradaparivraajaka), tri\-shhikhi, siitopanishhad(siita athavaa siitaa), yogachuuDaamaNi, nirvaaNa, maNDalabraahmaNa, dakshiNaamuurti, sharabha, skanda, (tripaaDvibhuuTi)\-mahaanaaraayaNa, advayataaraka, raamarahasya, raamataapaNi, vaasudeva, mudgala, shaaNDilya, pai.ngala, bhikshu(60), mahat\-shaariiraka, yogashikhaa, turiiyaatiita, sa.nnyaasa, paramahaMsa\-parivraajaka, akshamaalika, avyakta, ekaakshara, annapuurNa(70), suurya, akshi, adhyaatmaa, kuNDikopanishhad, saavitri, aatmaa, paashupata, parabrahma, avadhuuta, tripuraatapanopanishhad(80), devi, tripura, kara, bhaavana, rudra\-hR^idaya, yoga\-kuNDalini, bhasmopanishhad, rudraaksha, gaNapati, darshana(90), taarasaara, mahaavaakya, paJNcha\-brahma, praaNaagni\-hotra, gopaala\-tapaNi, kR^ishhNa, yaaGYavalkya, varaaha, shaatyaayani, hayagriiva(100), dattaatreya, gaaruDa, kali\-saNTaaraNa, jaabaala, saubhaagya, sarasvatii\-rahasya, bahvR^icha, muktika\. -------------- 19 upanishhads are from Shukla Yajur veda and have the Shaanti beginning 'puurNamada.' 32 upanishhads are from krishna yajur veda and have the Shaanti beginning 'sahanaavavatu.' 16 upanishhads are from Saama veda and have the Shaanti beginning 'aapyaayantu.' 31 upanishhads are from Atharva veda and have the Shaanti beginning 'bhadram\-karNebhiH.' 10 upanishhads are from Rig veda and have the Shaanti beginning 'vaNme\-manasi.' -------------- Reference : Thirty minor upanishads translated by Narayanasvami aiyar. Chapter : Muktika upanishad ______________________________________________________________________________ From francois at sas.ac.uk Mon Oct 7 12:03:34 1996 From: francois at sas.ac.uk (Francois Quiviger) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 13:03:34 +0100 Subject: Calcutta bookstores (thanks) Message-ID: <161227026310.23782.13799758014421746056.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> My warmest thanks to Soumitra Bose and Jakub Cejka for their help with this query. Best wishes to all. Francois Quiviger From vidya at cco.caltech.edu Mon Oct 7 21:37:02 1996 From: vidya at cco.caltech.edu (Vidyasankar Sundaresan) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 14:37:02 -0700 Subject: Upanishads and their Vedas. Message-ID: <161227026319.23782.5529289691150653193.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Anshuman Pandey wrote: > > Hello! > > I am looking for a comprehensive source which would provide me with a > listing of the Upanishads (the "genuine" 108 and perhaps the "ingenuine" > ones as well) and the Vedas/Vedic schools to which they belong. > You can find the 108 upanishads listed in the muktikA at the following website: http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~vidya/advaita/upanishad.html The 108 upanishads are arranged according to veda affiliation and subject matter in a table. I would like to take this opportunity to let list-members know of the advaita vedAnta website at . Dominik Wujastyk has already added the URL to the INDOLOGY site under his list of general interest items. The advaita website has both frames and non-frames versions. S. Vidyasankar From nick.allen at anthropology.oxford.ac.uk Mon Oct 7 15:29:07 1996 From: nick.allen at anthropology.oxford.ac.uk (nick.allen at anthropology.oxford.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 15:29:07 +0000 Subject: Baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026312.23782.8938802363113098591.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Return-Path: >Received: from oxmail2.ox.ac.uk by vax.ox.ac.uk (MX V4.2 VAX) with SMTP; Mon, > 07 Oct 1996 12:55:49 +0100 >Received: from mailhub.liverpool.ac.uk (actually host mail.liv.ac.uk) by > oxmail2 with SMTP (PP); Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:55:36 +0100 >Received: from mail.liv.ac.uk (actually host localhost) by mail.liv.ac.uk > with Local-SMTP (PP); Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:55:10 +0100 >Message-ID: <961007074803_327377843 at emout12.mail.aol.com> >Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:54:51 BST >Reply-To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk >Originator: indology at liverpool.ac.uk >Sender: indology-request at liverpool.ac.uk >Precedence: bulk >From: AmitaSarin at aol.com >To: Members of the list >Subject: Re: Baring the right shoulder >X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas >X-Comment: Indology mailing list > >If memory serves me right, Nanditha Krishna's book: The Art and Iconography >of Vishnu Narayana, explores some of the connections between South India and >the ancient near east. Undoubtedly, there is a corpus of research literature >on this subject. We shouldn't be too surprised if there are similarities >between the Indus Valley civilization and practices in South India today. > >Regards, >Amita Sarin On those similarities see Asko Parpola's recent Deciphering the Indus Script. Nick Allen From thompson at jlc.net Mon Oct 7 20:50:46 1996 From: thompson at jlc.net (thompson at jlc.net) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 16:50:46 -0400 Subject: Fenced villages Message-ID: <161227026317.23782.15213066533123243312.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Dear list members, > > In a recent book (Ariel Glucklich, _The Sense of Adharma_, New York, >OUP: 1994) we are told that the communities (grAma) known from Vedic >literature were usually surrounded by a fence. We don't know how these >fences looked like except for what can be guessed from later stone rails >(around stupa complexes for instance). What do we know about such fenced >villages from post-Vedic and medieval evidence? Is there a good historical >description of the topography of Indian villages? > >Best regards to all, > >Mikael Aktor, Research Fellow, cand.phil. > Dear Mikael, Besides the series of books by Wilhelm Rau on Vedic material culture, which perhaps you are already familiar with, there is an old article by Renou ["La maison v?dique"in JA 231, 1939]. There is also a recent publication by Elizarenkova called "'Words and Things' in the Rgveda" which you may not have run into yet [publ. by Bhandarkar Oriental Research Inst. as part of the Prof. Gune Memorial Lectures, sixth series, 1995]. She briefly touches on the Vedic grAma, describing it as more a less a heap of sheds and awnings, mats and reeds,all very temporary, and sometimes even arranged around a carriage. She refers to such primitive material conditions as reflective of the "material asceticism" of the Vedic Aryans.... Best wishes, George From vidya at cco.caltech.edu Tue Oct 8 00:22:05 1996 From: vidya at cco.caltech.edu (Vidyasankar Sundaresan) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 17:22:05 -0700 Subject: baring the right shoulder Message-ID: <161227026322.23782.3500910948285261492.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am forwarding this on behalf of my brother, Somasekhar Sundaresan, who is on the list, but is not able to post to it. It makes an observation about debates among Buddhist monks from Tibet and Nepal. S. Vidyasankar ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 06 Oct 96 18:49:46 PDT From: som at bcclb.ernet.in To: vidya at cco.caltech.edu Dear Sankar, I read a question on INDOLOGY about the Buddhist sutra on baring the right shoulder and clasping the hand. The discussion however veered to the South Indian practice of wearing an `angavastram'. I clearly recollect television documentaries on Buddhist stupas in Nepal and Tibet, where the debates are held by monks seated under trees. As soon as one of the participants finishes making his point, he pulls up an invisible(?) thread (like the poonal) and claps his hands, not clasps, as mentioned in the query. This goes on throughout the debate and each participant puts forth his argument with increasing vehemence and claps his hands with greater noise. This is perceived to a display of intellectual arrogance/superiority. -------------------------------------------------------- From aktor at coco.ihi.ku.dk Mon Oct 7 17:34:28 1996 From: aktor at coco.ihi.ku.dk (Mikael Aktor) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 18:34:28 +0100 Subject: Fenced villages Message-ID: <161227026314.23782.16752497475766025469.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear list members, In a recent book (Ariel Glucklich, _The Sense of Adharma_, New York, OUP: 1994) we are told that the communities (grAma) known from Vedic literature were usually surrounded by a fence. We don't know how these fences looked like except for what can be guessed from later stone rails (around stupa complexes for instance). What do we know about such fenced villages from post-Vedic and medieval evidence? Is there a good historical description of the topography of Indian villages? Best regards to all, Mikael Aktor, Research Fellow, cand.phil. Department of History of Religions, University og Copenhagen, Njalsgade 80, DK-2300 Copenhagen S, Denmark. Phone: (45) 3532 8954 - Fax: (45) 3532 8956 - E-mail: aktor at coco.ihi.ku.dk From pwyzlic at pwyz.rhein.de Mon Oct 7 16:34:57 1996 From: pwyzlic at pwyz.rhein.de (pwyzlic) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 18:34:57 +0200 Subject: Upanishads and their Vedas. Message-ID: <161227026316.23782.16594911734702379486.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Anshuman Pandey wrote: > I am looking for a comprehensive source which would provide me with a > listing of the Upanishads (the "genuine" 108 and perhaps the "ingenuine" > ones as well) and the Vedas/Vedic schools to which they belong. > > I realize that there is one Upanishad which lists all 108 (the name eludes > me at the present, Muktikopanishad (?) perhaps), but am unaware as to > whether or not it provides the name of the respective Veda from which it > comes. The colophon says: iti "suklayajurvedagataa muktikopani.sat samaaptaa To be found in (English title): Ii"saadi-a.s.tottara"satopani.sada with different readings and explanatory notes. Comp. & ed. by Vasudev Lakshman Panashikar. (Repr.) Varanasi: Chowkhamba Vidyabhawan 1990 (originally a Nirnaya Sagara edition, photomechanically reproduced). I think there are other Upanishad collections out there that contain this text, too. > I also browsed Renou's 'Vedic Literature' and a few others which outline > and classify these types of texts, but was left empty-handed. In any case, > I'd much appreciate if anyone could point me in the direction of any > sources which would provide me with the information I seek. If you want an overview you may take L'Inde Classique. In one of the appendices you will find a list of all the Upanishads mentioned in the Muktika. If my memory serves me right, Renou and Filliozat give also other lists (from Max Mueller and (?) Albrecht Weber). Hope this helps. -- ########################################################################### Peter Wyzlic pwyzlic at pwyz.rhein.de ########################################################################### From pclaus at haywire.csuhayward.edu Tue Oct 8 13:51:24 1996 From: pclaus at haywire.csuhayward.edu (Peter J. Claus) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 06:51:24 -0700 Subject: Fences. Message-ID: <161227026328.23782.5461252459403549643.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Date: October 8, 1996 Indology List indology at Liverpool.ac.uk Dear Members "What do we know about such fenced villages from post-Vedic and medieval evidence? Is there a good historical description of the topography of Indian villages?" Fenced villages (or hamlets, or seltements, sections of a 'village') are common in the areas of the southern Indian Deccan where I have been working. Many are associated with herding communities, but not all. The fences encircle the group of houses (conical-shaped, incidentally) of the community and are usually made of a tangled mass of the thorny branches of several species of readily available bushes and plants. Although there are obvious utilitarian functions for the fences---to keep animals in, to keep males from females, to protect from wild animals and theives--- there are also a strong symbolic significance to the fences: it defines the community, sets inside-outside parameters for various kinds and levels of purity and sacredness (as walls might). The fenced settlement can be found widely (Africa, having ones most similar to those still found in South India) among the world's herding communities. I would speculate that, along with the stupa fences and others which might be mentioned by Members, structures such as the Deccan (and maybe the West Indian) durga (fort) of the BeDa Nayakas (Telugu Boyya) Palegars and the Myees BeDas might well be derived from such 'fences'. Along the Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka border, at least, these stone walls seem to have originally enclosed one- caste communities. Within a mixed-caste settlement (ie. 'village') there are still physical dividers (usually stone walls) and the name for the settlement of each (or at least some) communities is distinct. kaDu gollas, eg., have haTTis (paTnam?), the migrant LambaDis (also called Banjara or Suukkaliga) live in hamlets called taNDa, etc. I have recently written a paper (not yet published) on the significance of these fences among the Kadu Golla. I any one would like a copy of it, I would be happy to mail it to them: please include a postal address with your request. I would imagine there is a lot of older ethnographic literature describing such 'fences' among the "tribal" peoples of Western and Central India (Bihar, Orissa, eastern Maharashtra, etc). Whether these "fences" are "the same" as the ones mentioned in the Vedas entails our usual problem of whether common forms (physical and symbolic [semantic, structural]) are Dravidian or IE or otherwise. Given the distribution, I would think African, but I suspect that will not be a popular sugestion! Peter J. Claus fax: (510) 704-9636 pclaus at csuhayward.edu From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Tue Oct 8 09:08:55 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 10:08:55 +0100 Subject: Tenure-track position available in South Asian History (fwd) Message-ID: <161227026324.23782.10800735774641399663.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 10:33:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Nikki Lamberty Subject: Tenure-track position available in South Asian History Carleton College announces a tenure-track assistant professorship, beginning September 1997. (In exceptional circumstances, appointment at higher rank may be considered.) We are looking for someone with broad teaching and research interests and a strong commitment to undergraduate teaching in a liberal arts environment. Candidates should have a specialization in Indian history (any era), be able to teach a survey in Southeast Asian history, and to direct a seminar on women in Asia. Some teaching experience is desirable. To apply, submit a letter of application, a c.v., a graduate transcript, syllabi of one or two courses you have taught or could teach, and three letters of recommendation by December 10, 1996, to Prof. Philip Niles, Department of History, Carleton College, One N. College Street, Northfield, MN 55057. We will interview at the AHA annual meeting. Carleton College is an AA/EOE; we particularly encourage applications from women and members of minority groups. From mmdesh at umich.edu Tue Oct 8 16:01:24 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 12:01:24 -0400 Subject: Position in ASIAN MUSICOLOGY/LITERATURE Message-ID: <161227026329.23782.16001744296224705112.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indology Members, I am pleased to announce the following open position at the University of Michigan. The position is open to all areas of Asian Musicology/Literature (INCLUDIND SOUTH ASIA). For further information, contact Professor Judith Becker (beckerj at umich.edu) or Professor Madhav M. Deshpande (mmdesh at umich.edu). All the best, Madhav Deshpande Position: A joint appointment in the School of Music, department of musicology, and Asian Laguages & Cultures OR Program in Comparative Literature (50% in Musicology plus 50% in Asian Languages & Cultures OR Comparative Literature). Duties: Teach undergraduate survey course, seminars in the scholar's specialty, interdisciplinary service on doctoral committees, possibly the direction of a performance ensemble. Qualifications: An appropriate doctorate, fluency in an Asian language, significant field work, a distinguished record of teaching and publication, scholarly expertise in both literature and music. The departments will be searching for a scholar who is well-versed in literature and music, and who is engaged with the current social and political isues surrounding the performing arts in Asia. Rank: OPEN (Assistant Professor/Associate Professor/Professor) Salary: Negotiable. To Apply: Send curriculum vitae, writing sample, three current letters of recommendation, and cover letter to: Professor Judith Becker (email: beckerj at umich.edu) Chair, Asian Musicology/Literature Search Committee School of Music University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2085 Deadline: 15 January 1997 From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Oct 8 19:58:53 1996 From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (Hueckstedt) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 14:58:53 -0500 Subject: Book request Message-ID: <161227026333.23782.18221025006673607899.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> (Apologies in advance to those of you who will get this twice.) I have searched high and low, up and down, and all around for the following, but I have so far had no luck at all. Now I'm beginning to wonder if this has even "come down" to us from the seventeenth century. The work is: (Prau.dha)manoramAkha.n.danam The author is: CakrapA.nidatta or "Se.sacakrapA.ni(datta) or just CakrapA.ni It is an attack on the SiddhAntakaumudI of Bha.t.toji DIk.sita. With the help of our loyal but sometimes mystified interlibrary loan people here, I have checked all the libraries in the major universities in Canada, and the libraries in most of the major universities of the US. I will be grateful for any suggestions. Bob Hueckstedt Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/asian_studies fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797 From LGoehler at aol.com Tue Oct 8 19:15:08 1996 From: LGoehler at aol.com (LGoehler at aol.com) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 15:15:08 -0400 Subject: Fenced villages Message-ID: <161227026331.23782.14526197335919760160.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In einer eMail vom 07.10.1996 22:01:43, schreiben Sie: >>Dear list members, >> >> In a recent book (Ariel Glucklich, _The Sense of Adharma_, New York, >>OUP: 1994) we are told that the communities (grAma) known from Vedic >>literature were usually surrounded by a fence. We don't know how these >>fences looked like except for what can be guessed from later stone rails >>(around stupa complexes for instance). What do we know about such fenced >>villages from post-Vedic and medieval evidence? Is there a good historical >>description of the topography of Indian villages? >> >>Best regards to all, >> >>Mikael Aktor, Research Fellow, cand.phil. >> >Dear Mikael, > >Besides the series of books by Wilhelm Rau on Vedic material culture, which >perhaps you are already familiar with, there is an old article by Renou >["La maison vedique"in JA 231, 1939]. There is also a recent publication >by Elizarenkova called "'Words and Things' in the Rgveda" which you may not >have run into yet [publ. by Bhandarkar Oriental Research Inst. as part of >the Prof. Gune Memorial Lectures, sixth series, 1995]. She briefly touches >on the Vedic grAma, describing it as more a less a heap of sheds and >awnings, mats and reeds,all very temporary, and sometimes even arranged >around a carriage. She refers to such primitive material conditions as >reflective of the "material asceticism" of the Vedic Aryans.... > >Best wishes, >George > > For the time of the BrAhmaNas it may also be worth reading Klaus Mylius: *Die gesellschaftliche Entwicklung Indiens in jungvedischer Zeit nach den Sanskritquellen*, published in a series of articles in Ethnographisch-Archaeologische Zeitschrift, Berlin 2/12 (1971), 3/13 (1972), 3/14 (1973), 3/15 (1974) Lars Goehler From P.Magnone at agora.stm.it Tue Oct 8 15:34:38 1996 From: P.Magnone at agora.stm.it (P.Magnone at agora.stm.it) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 15:34:38 +0000 Subject: Transl. of Bhojavrtti Message-ID: <161227026326.23782.9096136590121242863.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am aware of two English translations of Bhoja's rAjamArtaNDa commentary on the yogasUtra: - by J. R. Ballantyne, published still fragmentary in 1852 and subsequently completed by Govindadeva Shastri as from 1868. - by Rajendralal Mitra, published in 1883. I could not lay hands on the latter; the former is available in reprint as follows: _YogasUtras of PataJjali with BhojavRtti called rAjamArtaNDa_, transl. into English by J. R. Ballantyne and Govinda Sastri Deva, Delhi rep. 1983 (Parimal Sanskrit Series 10). This version is, however, quite unreliable, as being interspersed with various mistakes and lacunae, often arbitrarily summarizing or even altogether skipping without notice the more difficult passages. If you can read Italian, I might recommend my own version: _Aforismi dello Yoga (YogasUtra)_. Con il commentario rAjamArtaNDa di Bhoja (a cura di Paolo Magnone), Torino, Promolibri, 1991 where hopefully I have made a better job of it! With best wishes, Paolo Magnone Catholic University of Milan p.magnone at agora.stm.it ----------------------------------------------------------- On 4-Ott-96 Chris Austin wrote: > Does anyone know of an English translation of Bhoja's _Bhojavrtti_ > (commentary on Patanjali's _Yogasutra_)? I have not been able to > find a translation even among those which include Vyasa's, > Vacaspatimisra's and Vijnanabhiksu's. From ljmccrea at midway.uchicago.edu Tue Oct 8 22:54:58 1996 From: ljmccrea at midway.uchicago.edu (Lawrence J. McCrea) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 16:54:58 -0600 Subject: Book request Message-ID: <161227026335.23782.15521677709414431287.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In message Tue, 8 Oct 1996 21:11:45 BST, Hueckstedt writes: > > I have searched high and low, up and down, and all around for the > following, but I have so far had no luck at all. Now I'm beginning to > wonder if this has even "come down" to us from the seventeenth century. > The work is: > (Prau.dha)manoramAkha.n.danam > The author is: > CakrapA.nidatta or "Se.sacakrapA.ni(datta) or just CakrapA.ni > > It is an attack on the SiddhAntakaumudI of Bha.t.toji DIk.sita. > > With the help of our loyal but sometimes mystified interlibrary loan > people here, I have checked all the libraries in the major universities > in Canada, and the libraries in most of the major universities of the US. > I will be grateful for any suggestions. The work has "come down" to us and has been printed. According to the _New Catalogus Catalogorum_ (Vol. 6, p. 283), Cakrapaa.ni's _Prau.dhamanoramaakha.n.dana_ was published as _Pandit Reprints_ 50 (no date is given); it mentions no other edition, but obviously the work must have been printed previously in some issue of _The Pandit_. I hope this information is of some help to you. Sincerely, Lawrence J. McCrea (University of Chicago) From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed Oct 9 01:32:29 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 21:32:29 -0400 Subject: Book request Message-ID: <161227026337.23782.10955294667249312305.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> As I communicated to Hueckstedt in a personal message, this work was published in sections in volumes of the journal Pandita between 1910 (Nos 1-3, Vol. XXXII) to 1914 (Nos 1-3, Vol. XXXVI), and was then separately published in book form (with the front page saying "Reprinted from the Pandit") in 1916. Many years ago, I made a photocopy from the volumes of Pandita at the Harvard Library. It goes up to pp. 134 and ends with the discussion of the Karma kaaraka. It was edited by Vindhyeshwari Prasada Dvivedin and Ganapati Sastri Mokate. Printed and published in Benares by Bhagavati Prasad for E.J. Lazarus & Co., at the Medical Hall Press, 1916. Madhav Deshpande On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Lawrence J. McCrea wrote: > In message Tue, 8 Oct 1996 21:11:45 BST, > Hueckstedt writes: > > > > I have searched high and low, up and down, and all around for the > > following, but I have so far had no luck at all. Now I'm beginning to > > wonder if this has even "come down" to us from the seventeenth century. > > The work is: > > (Prau.dha)manoramAkha.n.danam > > The author is: > > CakrapA.nidatta or "Se.sacakrapA.ni(datta) or just CakrapA.ni > > > > It is an attack on the SiddhAntakaumudI of Bha.t.toji DIk.sita. > > > > With the help of our loyal but sometimes mystified interlibrary loan > > people here, I have checked all the libraries in the major universities > > in Canada, and the libraries in most of the major universities of the US. > > I will be grateful for any suggestions. > > The work has "come down" to us and has been printed. According to the > _New Catalogus Catalogorum_ (Vol. 6, p. 283), Cakrapaa.ni's > _Prau.dhamanoramaakha.n.dana_ was published as _Pandit Reprints_ 50 (no > date is given); it mentions no other edition, but obviously the work must > have been printed previously in some issue of _The Pandit_. I hope this > information is of some help to you. > > Sincerely, > Lawrence J. McCrea > (University of Chicago) > > From pclaus at haywire.csuhayward.edu Wed Oct 9 13:43:12 1996 From: pclaus at haywire.csuhayward.edu (Peter J. Claus) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 96 06:43:12 -0700 Subject: address change Message-ID: <161227026343.23782.13578872124525295900.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Congratulations, Axel! I hope to see you there sometime on my way to India. Peter Claus On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Axel Michaels wrote: > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:23:49 BST > From: Axel Michaels > Reply-To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk > To: Members of the list > Subject: address change > > Dear friends and colleagues, > since I have accepted the Chair of Classical Indology at the South Asia > Institute of the University of Heidelberg from 1st of Oct 1996, e-mail to > Berne will reach me only with some delay. I will let you know my new e-mail > adress as soon as I know it myself. > Best wishes and greetings, A.M. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Prof.Dr. Axel Michaels > Universit{t Bern > Institut f}r Religionswissenschaft > Lerchenweg 36 > CH-3000 Bern 9 > Tel.: (0041)(0)31 631 80 62, Fax.: (0041)(0)31 631 35 51 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov Wed Oct 9 14:37:50 1996 From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 96 09:37:50 -0500 Subject: Q: Neelakanta Bhaashyam Message-ID: <161227026346.23782.8703899172634531603.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Q: Neelakanta Bhaashyam ************************* I want to know of any Western language articles/books on Neelakantha Sivacharyar's bhaashyam on brahmasutram. This is a Saiva Siddhanta work. May be the references will deal with the differences when compared to Sankara's advaita philosophy. Has the French institute of indology, Pondichery brought out any books? Kasivasi Senthinathaiyar in 1907 published a tamil translation for Neelakanta bhaasyam. Any references welcome. Thanks, N. Ganesan nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov From vidya at cco.caltech.edu Wed Oct 9 16:38:36 1996 From: vidya at cco.caltech.edu (Vidyasankar Sundaresan) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 96 09:38:36 -0700 Subject: Q: Neelakanta Bhaashyam Message-ID: <161227026348.23782.17492688199351830812.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > I want to know of any Western language articles/books on > Neelakantha Sivacharyar's bhaashyam on brahmasutram. > This is a Saiva Siddhanta work. May be the references will > deal with the differences when compared to Sankara's advaita philosophy. Check Roma Chaudhuri, "Doctrine of the Srikantha and other monotheistic schools of the Vedanta," Calcutta, 1959-62 [v.1, 1962]. Series title: Pracyavani research series no. 11, (1959-1962) S. N. Dasgupta's History of Indian Philosophy: Vol. V gives other references. The entire volume deals with various Saiva schools, but it was published a while ago, and is not upto date. S. Vidyasankar From nozawa at la.numazu-ct.ac.jp Wed Oct 9 01:50:45 1996 From: nozawa at la.numazu-ct.ac.jp (NOZAWA Masanobu) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 96 10:50:45 +0900 Subject: vinigraha Message-ID: <161227026339.23782.5550049795701202811.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members, Among the definitions of 'vinigraha' by Monier Williams, we find the following : an antithesis which implies that when two propositions are antithetically stated peculiar stress is laid on one of them (p.970a). I hope someone can give me information about the source of this definition MW used. Any suggestion would be much appreciated. With best wishes Nozawa Masanobu From michaels at relwi.unibe.ch Wed Oct 9 11:16:42 1996 From: michaels at relwi.unibe.ch (Axel Michaels) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 96 12:16:42 +0100 Subject: address change Message-ID: <161227026340.23782.3828989877654188530.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear friends and colleagues, since I have accepted the Chair of Classical Indology at the South Asia Institute of the University of Heidelberg from 1st of Oct 1996, e-mail to Berne will reach me only with some delay. I will let you know my new e-mail adress as soon as I know it myself. Best wishes and greetings, A.M. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof.Dr. Axel Michaels Universit{t Bern Institut f}r Religionswissenschaft Lerchenweg 36 CH-3000 Bern 9 Tel.: (0041)(0)31 631 80 62, Fax.: (0041)(0)31 631 35 51 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From phijag at zelacom.com Wed Oct 9 19:31:54 1996 From: phijag at zelacom.com (phijag at zelacom.com) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 96 15:31:54 -0400 Subject: Q: Neelakanta Bhaashyam Message-ID: <161227026351.23782.15100015316313278644.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >> I want to know of any Western language articles/books on >> Neelakantha Sivacharyar's bhaashyam on brahmasutram. >> This is a Saiva Siddhanta work. May be the references will >> deal with the differences when compared to Sankara's advaita philosophy. See: S. Suryanarayana Sastri, The Sivadvaita of Srikantha, Madras Roma Chaudhuri, Doctrine of Srikantha. Calcutta John Grimes From fsmith at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Thu Oct 10 13:20:43 1996 From: fsmith at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (F. Smith) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 08:20:43 -0500 Subject: Agastya Message-ID: <161227026358.23782.6712163871898701988.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have been reading a Skt text called Vrataraaja with a student. This text is filled with astrological and astronomical references that occasionally stump me completely. One is agastya. MW defines this as Canopus. If only I knew what and where Canopus is in the sky! As the name indicates, it seems to be a southern star, one that is visible from Kaarttika maasa to Vai.saakha. In spite of that, I suspect it might be a star in a raa'si or a nak.satra, if for no other reason than because these were the usual templates through which classical India viewed the sky. Any help out there? Fred Smith University of Iowa From magier at columbia.edu Thu Oct 10 13:51:37 1996 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 09:51:37 -0400 Subject: EVENT ANNOUNCEMENT: Ayurveda Workshop Message-ID: <161227026360.23782.13081629729833597388.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The following event announcement is being forwarded to your mailing list or listserv from the EVENTS CALENDAR section of The South Asia Gopher. Please contact event organizers directly (as below) for any further information. David Magier, SAG =================================================================== Introduction to Ayurveda: A Fall Workshop November 1-3, 1996 Kellogg Center 15th Floor, International Affairs Building Columbia Univeristy 420 West 118th Street New York City, NY (Sponsored in part by the Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center of Columbia University) With Vasant Lad, Director, Ayurvedic Institute Albuquerque, New Mexico This weekend workshop will include an introduction to the principles and practices of Ayurveda featuring discussions and practical demonstrations. Special attention will be given to how Ayurveda understands and treats common health problems experienced by women. Friday, November 1st 6 pm - 8 pm, The Asia Society Saturday, November 2nd 9 am - 5 pm, Kellogg Center Sunday, November 3rd 10 am - 1 pm, Kellogg Center Advance Registration $100 On-site Registration $125 Advance registation must be received by Friday, October 25th, 1996. Please contact the Hinduja Center administrative office for registration information at: 212-854-5300 or dhirc at columbia.edu. From francois at sas.ac.uk Thu Oct 10 10:34:04 1996 From: francois at sas.ac.uk (Francois Quiviger) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 11:34:04 +0100 Subject: NORD/LB WARBURG-WOLFENBUTTEL RESEARCH FELLOWSHIP 1997-98 Message-ID: <161227026353.23782.14799344232617100348.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, Here are details of the fellowships offered by the Warburg Institute. Although they are not intended to support indological research, they are open to projects involving historical comparative East-West studies. Francois Quiviger ************************************************** (This information may also be found on the Warburg Institute Web site -- http://www.sas.ac.uk/warburg) The Norddeutsche Landesbank has generously funded a four-month Research Fellowship to enable a younger scholar to spend two months at the Warburg Institute, University of London, and two months at the Herzog August Bibliothek Wolfenbuttel, pursuing research into the cultural and intellectual history of early modern Europe. The Warburg Institute The Warburg Institute is dedicated to the interdisciplinary study of the classical tradition - in the sense of those elements in European thought, art and institutions that have evolved out of the cultures of the ancient world. Its Library and Photographic Collection are designed and arranged to encourage research into the processes whereby one culture learns from another, and different fields of thought and art act on one another. They are particularly concerned with continuities between the ancient Mediterranean civilizations and the cultural and intellectual history of post-classical Europe, especially in the period to c. 1800. The Herzog August Bibliothek Wolfenbuttel Over the past twenty years the Herzog August Bibliothek, with its rich historic book and manuscript holdings, has developed into an independent research institute combining the traditional role of a library with that of a humanities research centre concentrating on European cultural history of the early modern period. The Library takes its name from Duke August the Younger (1579-1666), whose collection of 135,000 imprints was one of the largest libraries of his day. It now also houses the collections of the Helmstedt University Library as well as all those books and manuscripts acquired for the collections since the death of Duke August in 1666. The Herzog August Bibliothek has recently been designated the national repository for 17th-century imprints in a scheme to establish a decentralized national library of German texts 1450-1912. The Library offers a broad range of research facilities within its own interdisciplinary fellowship programme, runs summer schools, and organizes conferences and workshops. Eligibility The Fellowship is intended for younger scholars, who should have completed at least two years' research towards a doctorate. Those employed at Professor, Lecturer or equivalent in a university of learned institution may normally hold an award only if they are taking unpaid leave for the whole of the period. The Fellowship may not be held concurrently with any othe Fellowship or award. Applicants must normally have been under 35 years of age on 1 October 1996. Duration and Value The Fellowship lasts four months, two of which must be spent in each institution. The total stipend, which may be applied to travel expenses as well as living and other incidental expenses, will be 5,100 pounds (approx. DM 12,000). Applicants domiciled in the UK will be liable for National Insurance costs on the English portion of the award. No additional funds are available. Tenure The Fellowship may be held for any four consecutive months during the year beginning 6 October 1997. Fellows must spend at least 6 weeks of their two months in London during University term-time; term dates for 1996-97 will be 6 October-12 December 1997; 12 January-20 March and 20 April-26 June 1998. Selection Candidates will be selected jointly by the two institutions and the Bank; the decision of the selection committee will be final. The successful candidate will be notified in March 1997, and all other candidates will be informed of the outcome of the applications. General At the Warburg Institute, the Fellow will be expected to be in London for the full duration of th award, and to participate in the life of the Institute by presenting his or her research in a seminar, and by advising the Library and Photographic Collection. At th Herzog August Bibliothek the Fellow will be expected to be in residence at the Library for the full duration of the award, and to present an informal paper on his or her research at one of the Fellows' meetings. The Fellow may not teach elsewhere during the tenure of the award, unless with the express permission of the Director of the relevant institution, and will be required to submit a brief written report to both institutions at the conclusion of the Fellowship. The Fellowship may be terminated if the Directors are not satisfied that the conditions of the award are being met. All publications containing results of work done with the aid of the Fellowship shall include adequate acknowledgment of the fact. Applications Applications should be made in the form of a letter in English or German, one copy of which should be sent ot the Director of the Warburg Institute, and one to the Director, Herzog August Bibliothek, Postfach 1364, 38299 Wolfenbuttel. The letter should give the following information: 1. A curriculum vitae giving full details of name, date of birth, address and present occupation, school and university education, degrees, teaching and research experience and publications. 2. An outline of the proposed research. 3. Particulars of any grants or awards received in support of the same subject. 4. The names and adresses of two or three persons who have agreed to write, without further invitation, in support of th application. These letters of reference should be sent ot the Director of the Warburg Institute by 6 January 1997. It is the responsibility of the candidates to ask their referees to write by this date. 5. Copies of published work should if possible be submitted. Candidates should indicate whether the wishe these publications to be returned, or whether they may be given to the Library of either institution. Closing date: applications must arrive at both institutions no later than 6 December 1996. NO applications will be accepted by e-mail. The postal addresses are: The Warburg Institute, Woburn Square, London WC1H 0AB, United Kingdom Herzog August Bibliothek, Postfach 13 64, 38299 Wolfenbuttel, Deutschland From francois at sas.ac.uk Thu Oct 10 10:36:44 1996 From: francois at sas.ac.uk (Francois Quiviger) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 11:36:44 +0100 Subject: Warburg Institute Research Fellowships 1997-98 Message-ID: <161227026355.23782.17590244885395151731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Warburg Institute Research Fellowships, 1997-98 The Warburg Institute The Warburg Institute is dedicated to the interdisciplinary study of the classical tradition - in the sense of those elements in European thought, art and institutions that have evolved out of the cultures of the ancient world. Its Library and Photographic Collection are designed and arranged to encourage research into the processes by which one culture learns from another and by which different fields of thought and art act on each other. They are particularly concerned with continuities between the ancient Mediterranean civilizations and the cultural and intellectual history of post-classical Europe, especially in the period to c. 1800. Research Fellowships The following Fellowships in intellectual and cultural history will be tenable at the Warburg Institute in the 1997-98 session. Brian Hewson Crawford Fellowship: A Research Fellowship has been endowed from the estate of, and in memory of, Dr Brian Hewson Crawford, who graduated from the University of London in 1926. A one-month Fellowship is available for the study of any aspect of the classical tradition. Under the terms of the deed, the Fellowship is open to European scholars other than of British nationality. Henri Frankfort Fellowship: Mrs Enriqueta Frankfort has endowed a Research Fellowship in memory of her husband Henri Frankfort, who was Director of the Institute from 1949 to 1954. The Fellowship, which is short-term, may be held in any of the areas in which Professor Frankfort made his distinguished contributions to scholarship: the intellectual and cultural history of the ancient Near and Middle East, with particular reference to society, art architecture, religion, philosophy and science; the relations between the cultures of Mesopotamia, Egypt and the Aegean, and their influence on later civilizations. The Fellowship is not intended to support archaeological excavation. Frances A. Yates Fellowships: Dame Frances Yates, who died on 29 September 1981, generously bequeathed her residuary estate to found a research Fellowship or Fellowships in her name at the Institute. Fellows' interests may lie in any aspect of cultural and intellectual history but, other things being equal, preference will be given to those whose work is concerned with those areas of the medieval and Renaissance encyclopedia of knowledge to which Dame Frances herself made such distinguished contributions. One long-term and approximately ten short-term Fellowships are available. NORD/LB Warburg-Wolfenbuttel Fellowship: The Norddeutsche Landesbank has funded a four-month Research Fellowship tenable for two months at the Institute and two months at the Herzog August Bibliothek Wolfenbuttel for research into the cultural and intellectual history of early modern Europe. [Conditions, value of award and method of application for this Fellowship follow in a separate message.] Eligibility: The Fellowships are intended for younger scholars who should have completed at least two years' research towards the doctorate. Those employed as Professor, Lecturer, or equivalent in a university or learned institution may normally hold an award only if they are taking unpaid leave for the whole of the period. The Fellowship may not be held concurrently with another Fellowship or award. Applicants must normally have been under 35 years of age on 1 October 1996. Other things being equal, in the case of short-term Fellowships, preference will be given to those candidates who do not live within daily travelling distance of the Institute. Any other conditions for eligibility applicable to individual Fellowships are stated above. Duration and Value of Fellowships: The long-term Fellowship will be for up to three years and is not normally renewable. The value will be in the range of 13,500-15,500 pounds p.a. according to age and qualifications. The stipend will be paid monthly in arrears and will be liable to deductions of approximately 27% for tax and National Insurance. The short-term Felloships will be of one to three months' duration. The value of awards will be: applicants domiciled in the United Kingdom, 1,700 pounds for three months (shorter periods not available; National Insurance contributions required); applicants domiciled abroad, 850 pounds for one month, 1,400 pounds for two months, 2,000 pounds for three months. The amount of these stipends is absolute; no additional travel costs or expenses will be paid. Tenure: Fellows must hold at least three-quarters of their award during term-time. Term dates for 1997-98 will be 6 October - 12 December 1997; 12 January - 20 March 1998; 20 April - 26 June 1998. Selection: Long-term Fellowship: Interviews of short-listed candidates will be held in late February or early March. Short-term Fellowships: No interviews are held for short-term Fellowships. Awards will be notified in March 1997. All candidates will be informed of the outcome of their application. General: All Fellows will be expected to participate in the life of the Institute and to put their knowledge at the disposal of the Institute by presenting their work in a seminar and by advising the Library and Photographic Collection. Fellows may teach elsewhere during tenure of the Fellowship only with the express permission of the Director. They will be required to present a brief written report at the conclusion of their appointments. A Fellowship may be terminated if the Appointing Committee is not satisfied that the conditions of the award are being met. All publications containing results of work done with the aid of a Fellowship shall include adequate acknowledgement of the fact. Applications: Applications should be made by letter to the Director giving the following information: 1. A curriculum vitae giving full details of name, date of birth, address and present occupation, school and university education, degrees, teaching and research experience, publications 2. An outline of proposed research 3. Particulars of grants received, if any, for the same subject 4. The names and addresses of two or three persons who have agreed to write, without further invitation, to the Director in support of the appliction. These letters of reference should reach the Director by 6 January 1997. It is the responsibility of candidates to ask their referees to write to the Director by this date. 5. Candidates should state in their application whether they wish to be considered for a long-term and/or short-term Fellowship; candidates from abroad applying for awards should specify how long they wish to spend at the Institute (i.e. one, two or three months). 6. Copies of published work should be submitted, if possible. Candidates should indicate whether they wish these publications to be returned, or whether they may be given to the Institute's library. Closing date: applictions must arrive at the Institute no later than 6 December 1996. Applications MUST be made by post. (No e-mail applications will be accepted.) The postal address of the Institute is: The Warburg Institute University of London Woburn Square London WC1H 0AB UK From witzel at husc3.harvard.edu Thu Oct 10 18:58:54 1996 From: witzel at husc3.harvard.edu (witzel at husc3.harvard.edu) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 14:58:54 -0400 Subject: Agastya Message-ID: <161227026366.23782.3960313479700910456.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Details on Canopus = Agastya, a very bright star in the southern skies which indeed is visible only during the summer (monsoon) at Delhi or Ujjain in: Yasuke Ikari, A study of the Nilamata, Kyoto 1994, p. 233-4 (article by Michio Yano, with tables for AD 500-1500). M. Witzel Sanskrit, Harvard University 617-495 3295 From athr at loc.gov Thu Oct 10 19:38:01 1996 From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 15:38:01 -0400 Subject: Angkor Encore: Travels in Cambodia 1996 (Slide Lecture) Message-ID: <161227026369.23782.11647065043969069478.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Library of Congress Asian Division presents: ANGKOR ENCORE: TRAVELS IN CAMBODIA 1996 A Slide Lecture by Kay Gottesman and Robert Grafton Monday, October 28, 1996 The Library Services Conference Room Madison Bldg. Room 642 Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.E. Washington, DC (Metro stop: Capitol South) 12:00 noon Kay and Robert will speak on the famous ruins of Angkor, the temples of Ancient Cambodia. During the last years of the eighth century, King Jayavarman II liberated and unified his country, thus founding the first dynasty of Angkor. His successors built an incomparable series of decorative temples in the region now known as Siemreap. The architecturally rich structures, some over one thousand years old, testify to the pomp and genius of the King of Angkor and the deep spirituality of the people. Interpreting services (American Sign Language) will be provided if requested five business days in advance of the event. Please call 202/707-6362 TTY and voice to make a request. For other ADA accomodations please contact the Disability Employment Program office at 202/707-9948 or 202/707-7544 voice. From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk Thu Oct 10 14:38:27 1996 From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 15:38:27 +0100 Subject: Agastya Message-ID: <161227026363.23782.9612314499862037205.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >I have been reading a Skt text called Vrataraaja with a student. This >text is filled with astrological and astronomical references that >occasionally stump me completely. One is agastya. MW defines this as >Canopus. If only I knew what and where Canopus is in the sky! As the name >indicates, it seems to be a southern star, one that is visible from >Kaarttika maasa to Vai.saakha. In spite of that, I suspect it might be a >star in a raa'si or a nak.satra, if for no other reason than because >these were the usual templates through which classical India viewed the >sky. Any help out there? I am not sure that agastya is Canopus but Canopus is the second brightest star in the sky, after Sirius, and is in the southern constellation of Carina. It is quite easily spotted next to the Southern Cross (Crux) , because of its being the only very bright object in that region of sky. Its declination is 52 degrees south so, it is only visible to observers below a latitude of 38 degrees south. That includes practically the whole of India. I hope this helps. Girish Beeharry From mmaggi at sinergia.it Thu Oct 10 20:40:20 1996 From: mmaggi at sinergia.it (mmaggi at sinergia.it) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 20:40:20 +0000 Subject: Fax number? Message-ID: <161227026371.23782.6029427997784394062.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone know the fax number of Nalini Balbir, Paris? With many thanks in advance, M. Maggi From mrabe at artic.edu Fri Oct 11 03:02:38 1996 From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 22:02:38 -0500 Subject: M.F. Hussain Message-ID: <161227026374.23782.12625909489774415283.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Friends, Since many of you may have been following the headlines out of Mumbai on the IndiaWorld this week, I thought it appropriate to share this dispassionate editorial from today's edition of _The Hindu_ With almost bated-breath, Michael Rabe Saint Xavier University & School of the Art Institute of Chicago ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Outcry against Hussain Date: 10-10-1996 :: Pg: 12 :: Col: b THE ORCHESTRATED OUTCRY against the noted painter, Mr. Maqbul Fida Hussain, led by the Hindutva forces and abetted by the Maharashtra State Government is a threat to the freedom of expression, to say the least. The `public' outcry conducted by the BJP-Shiv Sena cadres and the prompt response by the Mumbai police in registering a case against Mr. Hussain ``for hurting the sentiments of the Hindus'' were planned and those involved in converting this work of art _ of Goddess Saraswati and Draupadi _ into a political controversy were connected in one way or the other with the RSS. It was an article by Dr. Om Nagpal, whose leanings are far too well-known, in a Hindi language monthly published from Bhopal, Vichar Mimamsa whose editorial positions are manned by those with RSS background that raked up this controversy. The title of the article reads, ``Hussain _ is he an artist or a butcher.'' It was then only a matter of time before the BJP-Shiv Sena began demonstrating in Madhya Pradesh and Maharashtra and Mr. Pramod Navalkar, Maharashtra's Culture Minister, shot out a missive to the Mumbai police to ``take action against the painter.'' That the entire affair was orchestrated is beyond doubt and it is not the first time that freedom of expression has been attacked in recent times. There were similar outrages when the SAHMAT organised a painting exhibition where among other tales from the Ramayana, the Jataka tradition was also presented. At that stage too, the BJP orchestrated a vicious campaign, the language of which was filled with communal venom. There were similar attacks on the freedom of expression when Islamic fundamentalists launched a vicious tirade against Mr.Salman Rushdie endangering his life; Dr. Mushirul Hassan too was a victim of this fundamentalist rage. The latest instance involving Mr. Hussain, no doubt, is part of a concerted effort by fundamentalists against the freedom of expression and it needs to be condemned outright. It is far more serious when such a campaign is abetted by the State, in this case the Maharashtra Government and its Culture Minister, Mr. Navalkar. Indeed, there is more to the Hussain affair than an attack on the freedom of expression. It is a fact that such a set of paintings by Mr. Hussain is not new. The rich heritage represented by the sculptures in Khajuraho, Ajanta and Konark have not ``hurt the sentiments of the Hindus''; instead, they continue to be seen as the reflections of the effervescent art and culture that flourished under Hindu kings of that time. It is also a fact that the notion of blasphemy _ if at all Mr. Hussain could be accused of this _ has never been a part of the Hindu ethos. On the contrary, heretics of various hues had not only found a place in the Hindu ethos but had been absorbed and had even contributed immensely to the richness of this tradition. A disturbing fact that has emerged in this episode is that the campaign has taken a direction where the work of a painter of Mr. Hussain's eminence is sought to be portrayed on Hindu-Muslim lines. This is not the case. The basis for the hue and cry against Mr. Hussain is that he happens to be a Muslim and hence the outcry is essentially an attempt to intensify the communal divide. The Maharashtra Government would do well to reverse its orders against Mr. Hussain and instead of aiding those trying to trample upon the painters' right to expression, it must act firmly against them. It is the duty of the state to protect the freedom of expression subject to certain well-defined limits which clearly have not been crossed now. The Maharashtra Government cannot abdicate this responsibility. From wfsands at mum.edu Fri Oct 11 15:49:02 1996 From: wfsands at mum.edu (wfsands at mum.edu) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 96 10:49:02 -0500 Subject: Pandava Gita Message-ID: <161227026381.23782.5207007032506138679.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone have information on the Pandava Gita? I would like to know if it is embedded in the Mahabharata, and if so where. Also, are there any published editions? Thank you so much, --- William Sands, Ph.D. Maharishi University of Management FM 1015 Fairfield, Iowa 52557 Phone: (515) 472-1149 Fax: (515) 472-1189 E-mail wfsands at mum.edu http://www.mum.edu From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca Fri Oct 11 19:52:41 1996 From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 96 12:52:41 -0700 Subject: vinigraha Message-ID: <161227026384.23782.5650243547937281811.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Nozawa Masanobu wrote: "Among the definitions of 'vinigraha' by Monier Williams, we find the following : an antithesis which implies that when two propositions are antithetically stated peculiar stress is laid on one of them (p.970a). I hope someone can give me information about the source of this definition MW used.? My guess would be that MW was directly or indirectly referring to the discussion of nipaatas in Yaaska's Nirukta 1.4-11. The interpretation of the Nirukta discussion is problematic, particularly of the karmopasa.mgrahaarthiiya section. Already several scholars, including Mehendale, Bronkhorst and Falk, have written on the problem. Yaaska mentions the meanings of at least some nipaatas with the taddhita formation vinigrahaarthiiya. Skanda-Mahe;svara characterize Yaaska's use of aha in the definition of the karmopasa.mgrahaarthiiya nipaata as vinigrahaarthiiya. From Gerard.Huet at inria.fr Fri Oct 11 11:18:16 1996 From: Gerard.Huet at inria.fr (Gerard Huet) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 96 13:18:16 +0200 Subject: Fax number? Message-ID: <161227026376.23782.6511301073665883033.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Nalini Balbir [Fax: (33) (1) 46 26 38 24 ] From martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de Fri Oct 11 12:51:27 1996 From: martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de (Fco. Javier Mart177nez Garc177a) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 96 13:51:27 +0100 Subject: faxes Message-ID: <161227026378.23782.16780969825284331001.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Pratap, I have received your fax and I have just sent another one with some corrections and wishes. I4m very happy about the results. Could you please confirm me in which volume is it going to appear? I ask it, because a collega would like to make mention of it. With many thanks and cheers, Javier -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr. Fco. Javier Martinez Garcia Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft | tel. +49- 69- 7982 2847 Universitdt Frankfurt | (sekr.) +49- 69- 7982 3139 Postfach 11 19 32 | fax. +49- 69- 7982 2873 D-60054 Frankfurt | martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From mmdesh at umich.edu Fri Oct 11 21:18:37 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 96 17:18:37 -0400 Subject: Pandava Gita Message-ID: <161227026387.23782.4612848521958935826.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have a printed version of Pandava Gita, a collection of 30 verses, published in an old book called Bhaktimaargapradiipa, ed. by Lakshman Ramchandra Pangarkar, 16th edition, Bombay: Keshav Bhikaji Dhavale Publishers, "saka year 1860, pp.42-45. I doubt if it is part of the Mahabharata. If you need a copy, let me know your snail mail address and I will send you a photocopy of these pages. Madhav Deshpande On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Bill Sands wrote: > > Does anyone have information on the Pandava Gita? I would like to know if > it is embedded in the Mahabharata, and if so where. Also, are there any > published editions? > > Thank you so much, > > > --- > > William Sands, Ph.D. > Maharishi University of Management > FM 1015 > Fairfield, Iowa 52557 > Phone: (515) 472-1149 > Fax: (515) 472-1189 > E-mail wfsands at mum.edu > http://www.mum.edu > > > > From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Sat Oct 12 06:16:18 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 96 07:16:18 +0100 Subject: Upgraded Mahaabhaarata again Message-ID: <161227026396.23782.9826618961409399479.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Kyoto archive is available as a link through the INDOLOGY web site http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html under the heading Virtual archive of e-texts for those of us who like just pointing and clicking. May I express my thanks to Profs. Tokunaga and Yano and colleagues for their continued work on the Mbh and Ram texts, and especially for the amazing generosity of Prof. Tokunaga in deciding to share his work freely with the world of scholarship. Best wishes, Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE, England FAX: 44 171 611 8545 From yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp Sat Oct 12 02:27:12 1996 From: yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 96 11:27:12 +0900 Subject: Agastya Message-ID: <161227026390.23782.6394190310068244504.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Prof. Witzel wrote: >Details on Canopus = Agastya, a very bright star in the southern skies >which indeed is visible only during the summer (monsoon) at Delhi or >Ujjain in: > Yasuke Ikari, A study of the Nilamata, Kyoto 1994, >p. 233-4 (article by Michio Yano, with tables for AD 500-1500). As the author of the paper I must correct Witzel's remark. Since Canopus (Agastya)'s declination is about 52.5 degrees south, it can be seen at the place whose geographical latitude is less than 37.5 degrees north. The less the latitude the longer is the period of its visibility. At the latitude of Delhi it can be seen AFTER mid-August and for quite a long time. The FIRST appearance of Agastya was important and puujaa was performed. Michio YANO Professor of Sanskrit and History of Science Kyoto Sangyo University From yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp Sat Oct 12 02:29:24 1996 From: yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 96 11:29:24 +0900 Subject: Upgraded Mahaabhaarata again Message-ID: <161227026393.23782.4437920682630462254.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, I placed the upgraded Mahaabhaarata e-text (1_1) in my ftp site on October 3. Prof. Tokunaga and one of his students, however, found that some corrections were missing in the process of comparison. So I have replaced the Mahaabhaarata e-text in my site again. If you downloaded the text between October 3 and 11, we advice you to do it again. Sorry for inconvenience! My ftp address is: ccftp.kyoto-su.ac.jp ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ the directory is: pub/doc/sanskrit/mahabharata ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michio YANO yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp yanom at cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp (for private mail) From apandey at u.washington.edu Sun Oct 13 01:32:25 1996 From: apandey at u.washington.edu (Anshuman Pandey) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 96 18:32:25 -0700 Subject: Query: Verse referencing in the Samaveda. Message-ID: <161227026398.23782.6287883807485917776.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello - Could anyone please provide me with details regarding the proper referencing of verses of the Samaveda? For instance, when quoting or refering to a verse from Rgveda Book I, hymn 150, the following is used: Rv. I.150.1; or from the Yajurveda Book 15, verse 35, the following: Yv. XV.35. Mostly, I've seen verses of the Samaveda referenced/quoted using a serial number, but once noticed that the prapaaThaka, ardha, khaNDa, and dashati of the verse were all given. Is there an accepted or standard method of refering/quoting verses of the Samaveda? Thank you. Regards, Anshuman Pandey --- Anshuman Pandey | apandey at u.washington.edu | University of Washington From reusch at uclink4.berkeley.edu Sun Oct 13 19:29:13 1996 From: reusch at uclink4.berkeley.edu (reusch at uclink4.berkeley.edu) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 96 11:29:13 -0800 Subject: The usage of Skt. Message-ID: <161227026400.23782.8219203682703968503.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear fellow listers, Please excuse any cross postings. I am a PhD student at UC Berkeley, South Asian Studies, concentrating on Skt. I have read on a Skt. online list some contributions about mixing Skt. and English for conversation, etc. and would like to comment on this. I have heard that the Skt. language is not meant for vyavahaara. And it is for that reason that it is stated in the Rg Veda, the Bhagavata Purana, etc. that vaac/bhaaSaa (i.e. the Skt. language) is found on four levels -- vaikharii, madhyamaa, paSyandii, and paraa. It seems to me that even the vaikharii level is intended to communicate with others within the realm of philosophical discussions, religious performances, ritual man-nature relations (yajNa), etc. And for that reason as well there have been conscious efforts throughout the ages to keep that bhaaSaa as unchanged as possible. Of course there is a difference between Vedic and Classical Sanskrit -- and that needs to be explained -- which have their parallel praakRta languages or dialects. On the other hand, we find that the Hindi language, for example, is being constantly increased with the addition of needed vyaavahaarika terms -- doordarshan and so on. I'd be delighted to hear your feedback on this subject, including sources for further study. With best wishes, Beatrice From apandey at u.washington.edu Mon Oct 14 03:34:31 1996 From: apandey at u.washington.edu (Anshuman Pandey) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 96 20:34:31 -0700 Subject: Upanishads and their Vedas Message-ID: <161227026402.23782.13397429348572333244.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you to everyone who answered my questions regarding the 108 Upanishads and their respective Vedas. Your time and assistance is very much appreciated. Thanks again. Regards, Anshuman Pandey --- Anshuman Pandey | apandey at u.washington.edu | University of Washington From KJKARTTU at Elo.Helsinki.fi Tue Oct 15 14:36:41 1996 From: KJKARTTU at Elo.Helsinki.fi (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 14:36:41 +0000 Subject: Baring one's shoulder in Buddhism Message-ID: <161227026409.23782.12029138584388863453.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thinking the amount of discussion about this question lately, and being no Buddhist scholar myself, I was quite surprised, when I hit a reference. It was really pure accident, I was actually searching for Naga stories somehow coping with classical accounts of Indian giant snakes. In I-tsing's Record of the Buddhist Religion, translated by J. Takakusu (1896, Reprinted Delhi 1982) pages 72ff. contain chapter XI The mode of wearing garments, and in this some information on this question, too, can be found. For instance, in the monastery it is not necessary to have one's shoulder bared. With best wishes Klaus Karttunen From francois at sas.ac.uk Tue Oct 15 15:14:39 1996 From: francois at sas.ac.uk (Francois Quiviger) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 16:14:39 +0100 Subject: Virus scare Message-ID: <161227026405.23782.10524327291292140443.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This good times virus poped up on other lists about a year ago. It was in fact a hoax. Francois Quiviger From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Tue Oct 15 16:58:47 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 17:58:47 +0100 Subject: Virus Warning !!! --- not Message-ID: <161227026407.23782.9054724767217705042.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Relax, everyone. The "Good Times" virus does not exist, and the convincing-sounding warning about it is a spoof that surfaces every year or two on the internet and gets sent from group to group by good people who haven't heard of it before. Best wishes, Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE, England FAX: 44 171 611 8545 From bmisra at husc.harvard.edu Wed Oct 16 09:59:57 1996 From: bmisra at husc.harvard.edu (Bijoy Misra) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 05:59:57 -0400 Subject: Prof. Tokunaga's message Message-ID: <161227026416.23782.5556328733286157893.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> what's the URL on the material? Copyright laws are much valid on material on internet as for printed material. A Web link to the original is the right approach to reference. Sounds somewhat strange!! On Wed, 16 Oct 1996 yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp wrote: > Prof. Muneo Tokunaga, my repsected friend, asked me to post the following > message since he is not on our mailing list. Michio YANO > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Dear Fellow-Indologists, > > Two days ago I knew that Dr. John Smith of Cambridge is circulating > my file of the Mahaabhaarata as his file with his modifications through > Internet. He didn't let me know. I opened his homepage and read his harsh > criticism on my files. I don't mind criticism; it is rather welcome. > But I cannot but feel very sad that he is using my files, which he > considers to be even `disasterous' in some respect, without giving > me any notice or request to use them. > > After reading his page I sent him the following mail. > > - - - - - > > Dear Dr. John Smith, > > I was told of your epic files and your homepage today. I opened your > homepage and read your comment on my files. My files are intended just > to be a word-index to the printed edition. It was originally prepared > just for my own purpses, but I opened them to the public by strong > requests of Indologists all over the world. > It's quite OK if you want to join word-separations inside the compound. > But if you open them to the public as YOUR files, why don't you type all > the Mahaabhaarata by yourself? I think this is a fair way of doing, and > the etiquette in using e-files on the Internet. > Please do not use my files any more if you are not happy about them. > > Muneo Tokunaga, Kyoto > > - - - - - > > If he ever type the whole Mahaabhaarata reading it, Dr. Smith will realize > that the job is thousand times harder than what he has done so far on > my files. The question is not his harsh comment but what he has been doing > behind against the goodwill of the one who kindly offered the files to him > in answer to his request. It is not his outspokenness but his lack of the > sense of acknowledgment about the contribution of others. > > > =============================================== > Muneo TOKUNAGA > Professor of Indian Philosophy > Graduate School of Letters, Kyoto University > Kyoto, Japan (606-01). Tel. 075-753-2778 > email: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp > =============================================== > From Francois.Voegeli at orient.unil.ch Wed Oct 16 12:12:17 1996 From: Francois.Voegeli at orient.unil.ch (Francois.Voegeli at orient.unil.ch) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 12:12:17 +0000 Subject: Prof. Tokunaga's message Message-ID: <161227026420.23782.13875131844758012992.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Wed 16.10.1996 Bijoy Misra wrote: >what's the URL on the material? The direct URL to Dr Smith's criticism on Prof. Tokunaga's work is the following: http://bombay.oriental.cam.ac.uk/john/mahabharata/statement.html >Copyright laws are much valid on material >on internet as for printed material. >A Web link to the original is the >right approach to reference. >Sounds somewhat strange!! I have to say I totally agree with Prof. Tokunaga's (whom I send my best greetings by the way) following statement: > But if you open them to the public as YOUR files, why don't you type all > the Mahaabhaarata by yourself? I think this is a fair way of doing, and > the etiquette in using e-files on the Internet. > Please do not use my files any more if you are not happy about them. So doing, Dr Smith has has caused a serious breach in the "Netiquette". I hope this will not impair the availability of the wonderfull work the Kyoto team is making. And if it does we will all suffer serious drawbacks in our work but we will know whom to blame... Francois Voegeli Fac. des lettres Section de langues et civilisations orientales Universite de Lausanne BFSH 2 CH-1015 Tel.: (41.21) 692-2721 Fax.: (41.21) 692-3045 E-mail: Francois.Voegeli at orient.unil.ch From yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp Wed Oct 16 03:42:02 1996 From: yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 12:42:02 +0900 Subject: Prof. Tokunaga's message Message-ID: <161227026412.23782.1184449763046341486.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Prof. Muneo Tokunaga, my repsected friend, asked me to post the following message since he is not on our mailing list. Michio YANO ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dear Fellow-Indologists, Two days ago I knew that Dr. John Smith of Cambridge is circulating my file of the Mahaabhaarata as his file with his modifications through Internet. He didn't let me know. I opened his homepage and read his harsh criticism on my files. I don't mind criticism; it is rather welcome. But I cannot but feel very sad that he is using my files, which he considers to be even `disasterous' in some respect, without giving me any notice or request to use them. After reading his page I sent him the following mail. - - - - - Dear Dr. John Smith, I was told of your epic files and your homepage today. I opened your homepage and read your comment on my files. My files are intended just to be a word-index to the printed edition. It was originally prepared just for my own purpses, but I opened them to the public by strong requests of Indologists all over the world. It's quite OK if you want to join word-separations inside the compound. But if you open them to the public as YOUR files, why don't you type all the Mahaabhaarata by yourself? I think this is a fair way of doing, and the etiquette in using e-files on the Internet. Please do not use my files any more if you are not happy about them. Muneo Tokunaga, Kyoto - - - - - If he ever type the whole Mahaabhaarata reading it, Dr. Smith will realize that the job is thousand times harder than what he has done so far on my files. The question is not his harsh comment but what he has been doing behind against the goodwill of the one who kindly offered the files to him in answer to his request. It is not his outspokenness but his lack of the sense of acknowledgment about the contribution of others. =============================================== Muneo TOKUNAGA Professor of Indian Philosophy Graduate School of Letters, Kyoto University Kyoto, Japan (606-01). Tel. 075-753-2778 email: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp =============================================== From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Oct 16 18:18:58 1996 From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (Hueckstedt) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 13:18:58 -0500 Subject: Book Request Message-ID: <161227026424.23782.3918700575656624612.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> (Apologies for double posting.) I am looking for the _B.rhacchabdaratnavyAkhyA_ by Bhavadeva. This is a commentary on Hari DIk.sita's _B.rhacchabdaratna_, which is a commentary on Bha.t.toji DIk.sita's _Prau.dhamanoramA_, which is a commentary on his own _VaiyAkara.nasiddhAntakaumudI_. The interlibrary loan people here have come up with no "hits" in any library of the major universities in Canada or the major US universities that are in its data base. Any help, suggestions or pointers are greatly appreciated. Gratefully, Bob Hueckstedt Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/asian_studies fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797 From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Oct 16 18:35:12 1996 From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (Hueckstedt) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 13:35:12 -0500 Subject: Beginnings of writing Message-ID: <161227026422.23782.1358824479264003014.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To pick up an old thread . . . While involved in a project that has nothing to do with the beginnings of writing in South Asia, I happened upon a varttika in the _MahAbhA.sya_ of Pata~njali that may be of some interest. (I don't recall that it was mentioned in the previous discussion. If I'm bringing up something that is generally known, smile faintly and hit the ole delete button.) In the _a.s.tAdhyAyI_ rule 4.1.49 says: indra-varu.na-bhava-"sarva-rudra-m.r.da-himAra.nya- yava-yavana-mAtulAcAryA.nAm Anuk which basically means that to form the feminine after the nominal stems indra, etc. one uses the augment Anuk and the affix "nI.s. For example, from indra we get indrA.nI. Varttika 3 on that rule states: yavanAl lipyAm which means, according to Pata~njali, that the word yavanAnI, formed in this way, refers to the script of the yavanas. This in no way proves that at the time of the conception of this idea there must have been a script in use among the inhabitants of South Asia, but it does mean that they must have known what such a thing was. Dates here, of course, are murky, but if we accept that 200 bc is a good approximate date for Pata~njali, then the above varttika clearly dates to a time before that. Looking forward to comments and discussion, Bob Hueckstedt Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/asian_studies fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797 From fujii at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Oct 16 05:39:15 1996 From: fujii at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Masato Fujii) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 14:39:15 +0900 Subject: Query: Verse referencing in the Samaveda. Message-ID: <161227026414.23782.16981391852652329840.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Concerning the method of referring Saamavedic verses, aside from the lengthy numbering method of the Kauthuma Saamaveda given by Th. Benfey [e.g. SV 1(puurva-aarcika),1(1st prapaa.thaka),1(1st ardha),1(1st da'sati),1(1st suukta)], a simpler method has been generally used by Vedic schalors, Caland etc., which was proposed by W. D. Whitney in Indische Studien II (1853), pp. 321ff. [ SV 1,1,1,1,1(Benfey) = SV 1,1; SV 1,2,1,1,4(Benfey) = SV 1,100; etc.] Whitney attaches a correspondence table of both numbering methods (pp. 347-3620). Masato FUJII ====================================================== Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University E-mail: fujii at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Phone: +81-75-753-6949 Fax: +81-75-753-6903 ====================================================== From filipsky at site.cas.cz Wed Oct 16 13:24:20 1996 From: filipsky at site.cas.cz (Jan Filipsky) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 15:24:20 +0200 Subject: Reconstructing South Indian History Message-ID: <161227026418.23782.11032681092026650716.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> CALL FOR PAPERS - SECOND CIRCULAR Dear Netters, my first request for contributions to the special thematic volume of the Indo-British Review - A Journal of History, published by the Indo-British Historical Society in Madras, with the working title "Reconstructing South Indian History" I am guest-editing, publicized here in March last evoked encouraging response from scholars interested in South Indian (Dravidian) studies and I was able to collect some interesting papers on Nolamba political history, on the early history and archaeology of the Deccan, on the Enigmatic History of Cults and Sects at Srisailam and on the Oral Historiography of the Tamils (my own). There is, however, still some space left waiting for your insightful inquiries into the political or social history of Southern India, Dravidian linguistics, literary history or history of religion. I would like your original research papers to concentrate on lesser known, even obscure aspects of SI history, which have something relevant to say about the topic at hand, viz. to contribute towards reconstructing the history (both early and modern) of Andhrapradesh, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Kerala. I would appreciate any contributions and suggestions. The papers not exceeding 20-25 pages should reach me as early as possible, but not later than by the end of November, preferably by e-mail, or by s-mail on a floppy disc in a PC compatible format (Word Perfect, MS Word and the like) together with a hard copy showing the necessary diacritics. (I am afraid we do not go in for Mac too much down here!) We have the appropriate fonts at our disposal enabling us to transliterate any Indian language and to use the Devanagari (both Hindi and Sanskrit) as well as the Tamil script. Looking forward to your response, I remain, sincerely Yours, Jan Filipsky ******************************************************** Jan Filipsky, Oriental Institute, Pod vodarenskou vezi 4, 182 08 Praha 8 Phone: 00422/6605 3729 Private: U Pentlovky 466/7, 181 00 Praha 8 Phone: 00422/855 74 53 ******************************************************** From chattrj at is3.nyu.edu Wed Oct 16 22:59:44 1996 From: chattrj at is3.nyu.edu (chattrj at is3.nyu.edu) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 18:59:44 -0400 Subject: Nazi "Degenerate Art" all over again? Message-ID: <161227026427.23782.11403904190589049481.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Friends: This reminds me of the Nazi movement against the so-called "degenerate art" that featured works of artists like Kandinsky and other expressionists. What's going on in India? Can anything be done against this? It's Hussain today, it was Safdar Hashmi yesterday, who's next? The signs are tell-tale. :Sudipto ___________________________________________________________ NEW DELHI, Oct. 11 (UPI) -- Right-wing Hindu zealots broke into an Indian art gallery and burned at least 25 paintings by celebrated artist Maqbool Fida Husain, who has been under attack for his depiction of a Hindu goddess as a nude woman, reports said Friday. Husain, a Muslim, is one of India's best known painters. Experts value the destroyed works at an estimated $1.7 million. The rampage took place at an art gallery in Ahmedabad, in the western state of Gujarat, where curators planned an exhibit of some of the artist's rare paintings. Many of the works destroyed in the attack had been favorites of Husain and had never left his house before, the Pioneer newspaper reported. Officials said the attack was carried out by activists from the Bajrang Dal, the youth wing of the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party. "This should be a lesson to Husain to keep his hands off our faith,'' a spokesman of the BJP was quoted as saying in the Pioneer. "Let him come here and we will teach him a lesson.'' Husain has been criticized by right-wing Hindus for his depiction of the deity Saraswati, the goddess of education and learning, as a highly stylized naked woman. The painter said he did not intend to offend anyone. He has also argued that the Hindu pantheon is the legacy of all Indians, regardless of their religious heritage. Bombay police, however, have filed criminal charges against Husain for offending the religious sentiments of Hindus and promoting hatred between Hindus and Muslims. NEW DELHI, India (Reuter) - Dozens of artists Saturday protested the burning by a Hindu fundamentalist group of paintings of nude Hindu goddesses, calling the canvas torchings a shameful act of arson and demanding the arrest of the culprits. "I consider the present furor the ugliest form of communal hatred,'' Satish Gujral, a leading artist told artists gathered in New Delhi. They were protesting the burning of some of Maqbool Fida Hussain's paintings in the western city of Ahmedabad. Said one artist: "We demand the immediate arrest of the arsonists in Ahmedabad.'' "What has happened in Ahemedabad in a dangerous signal to artists, painters, writers, poets, dancers and musicians. I myself feel very ashamed,'' said Bhabesh Sanyal, another artist. Hussain, a Muslim, earned the ire of some Hindu fundamentalist groups and parties over his nude paintings of Hindu goddesses. The artist painted the offending pictures two to four years ago. A Hindu fundamentalist group Thursday burnt some of Hussain's paintings in Ahmedabad city, saying they were an offense to Hindu religious practices. Members of the militant wing of the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and Shiv Sena activists, along with some other groups, staged a small demonstration outside Hussain's home in Bombay Tuesday. The same day, Bombay police, heeding calls from Hindu nationalists, filed obscenity charges against Hussain. The storm over Hussain broke when Vichar magazine, based in the Madhya Pradesh state capital of Bhopal, published an article on the painter titled "Is this man a painter or a butcher?'' Hussain, a former member of parliament, is currently visting London. [The messages were forwarded to me by my friend Bhaskar Ghosh at "ghosh at informix.com".] From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA Thu Oct 17 01:16:33 1996 From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (Hueckstedt) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 20:16:33 -0500 Subject: Baffled by the BSR Message-ID: <161227026429.23782.12185100873567833905.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I hate to admit it, but I am at wits end with a passage in Hari Diksita's _B.rhacchabdaratna_. It is on _iko ya.n aci_, my old friend, but I can't figure out the following passage. It begins with a short objection. Then there's a short reply to that objection. Remember that the _BSR_ is a commentary on the _Prau.dhamanoramA_ of Bha.t.toji DIk.sita. I will be grateful for any hints or suggestions. I am using the BHU edition, 1964, edited by Sitaram Shastri. If you have that text handy, you'll find the passage beginning on the last line of p 84. Here's the text: yattu hrasvekArAdInA.m tadvAcyatvena yugapad v.rttidvayavirodha iti| tanna| ga"ngAyA.m mInagho.sau sta ityAdau tada"ngIkArAt, hrasvAnA.m tadvAcyavAcyatvena lak.syatAvacchedakAkrAntatvAt| ata eva gha.tI bhavatItyAdAv Ittvam| k.rtaj~natayA saha, Bob Hueckstedt Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/asian_studies fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797 From mrabe at artic.edu Thu Oct 17 08:51:23 1996 From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 03:51:23 -0500 Subject: Nazi "Degenerate Art" all over again? Message-ID: <161227026432.23782.8475836193329505866.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Following up, with thanks, to Sudipto: >This reminds me of the Nazi movement against the so-called "degenerate art" >that featured works of artists like Kandinsky and other expressionists. >What's going on in India? Can anything be done against this? It's Hussain >today, it was Safdar Hashmi yesterday, who's next? The signs are tell-tale. > >:Sudipto >___________________________________________________________ What happened to Safdar Hashmi? And can anyone cite the issue of India Today what had an article about Hussain's mythologicals, sometime in the last year or so, as I recall? A macabre thought in response to your query about "who's next": there's been alot of talk in the 20th century, much of it glib, about Spirituality in Modernist Art. Now let's see (when the going gets tough), if any are willing to follow through to martrydom. Hopefully not. Michael Rabe Saint Xavier University Fax,for the offending pictures: 1 (773) 779-9061 & The School of the Art Institute of Chicago From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Oct 17 12:59:08 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 08:59:08 -0400 Subject: Baffled by the BSR Message-ID: <161227026434.23782.14180389965983718929.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Bob (and anyone else who loves Paninian debates), Here is how I interpret the passage. The main thesis of PM [=Prau.dhamanoramaa] is that iK in P.6.1.77 (iko ya.n aci) ultimately stands for 66 sounds (cf. tena ik-"sabdena .sa.t.sa.s.tir g.rhyante, PM). How do we get these 66? BSR is saying that the short varieties are obtained as tad-vaacya "denoted by that (=iK)", while the other savar.na varietiesd are obtained as a result of a second level signification function: tad-vaacya-vaacya "denoted by that [=i, u, .r, .l] which is denoted by that [=iK]". The passage at hand first cites an objection to this procedure. If some items are obtained through one v.rtti [="sakti, abhidhaa] while other items are obtained through a secondary signification function [=lak.sa.naa], then there is a problem of having to rely upon two signification functions simultaneously [=yugapad-v.rtti-dvaya-virodha]. For details on this argument, see my 1992 book "The Meaning of Nouns", pp. 114-5, which also discusses the example gangaayaam miinagho.sau. The BSR rejects this objection first by saying that it is not a problem to have to take recourse to two signification functions [i.e. abhidhaa and lak.sa.naa] simultaneously, because such a recourse has been accepted [cf. tad-angiikaaraat] in the example: gangaayaam miinagho.sau. The normal example of lak.sa.naa is gangaayaam gho.sa.h "the cowherd-colony is on the Ganges", where the word gangaa is understood through a secondary signification function [=lak.sa.naa] to refer to the bank of the river, because its primary meaning [=vaacya, mukhya-artha] of the stream of the river is inapplicable [=mukhyaarthabaadha]. However, in the example gangaayaam miinagho.sau "there are fish and the cowherd-colony in/on the Ganges", the word gangaa is understood in its primary meaning with reference to the fish, while it is simultaneously understood in its secondary meaning with reference to the cowherd-colony. The second argument brought up by the BSR is that even the coverage of short varieties is to be done by taking recourse to a secondary signification [tad-vaacya-vaacya, lak.sa.naa]. This is predicated on the understanding that the sound 'a' in the Sivasutra a-i-u-N is a different instance (vyakti) from the sound 'a' mentioned in other rules of Panini. Thus, for the sound 'a' denoted by the shortform a-N [tad-vaacya] to cover the sound 'a' in another rule such as P.7.4.32 (asya cvau), one needs to take recourse to a secondary signification [=tad-vaacya-vaacya, lak.sa.naa]. The short vowels are also thus possessed of the property of being denoted through a secondary signification function [= hrasvaanaam tad-vaacya-vaacyatvena lak.syataavacchedakaakraantatvaat]. This is necessary for the derivation of the expression gha.tiibhavati, where the final 'a' of the word gha.ta is replaced by long 'ii' by P.7.4.32. The final position defended by the BSR in this passage is that it is ok to take recourse to two simultaneous signification functions to get the coverage of all 66 varieties from the shortform iK. For those who survive this heavy Paninian dose, have a nice day! Madhav Deshpande On Thu, 17 Oct 1996, Hueckstedt wrote: > I hate to admit it, but I am at wits end with a passage in Hari Diksita's > _B.rhacchabdaratna_. It is on _iko ya.n aci_, my old friend, but I can't > figure out the following passage. It begins with a short objection. Then > there's a short reply to that objection. Remember that the _BSR_ is a > commentary on the _Prau.dhamanoramA_ of Bha.t.toji DIk.sita. I will be > grateful for any hints or suggestions. I am using the BHU edition, 1964, > edited by Sitaram Shastri. If you have that text handy, you'll find the > passage beginning on the last line of p 84. Here's the text: > > yattu hrasvekArAdInA.m tadvAcyatvena yugapad v.rttidvayavirodha iti| > tanna| ga"ngAyA.m mInagho.sau sta ityAdau tada"ngIkArAt, hrasvAnA.m > tadvAcyavAcyatvena lak.syatAvacchedakAkrAntatvAt| ata eva gha.tI > bhavatItyAdAv Ittvam| > > k.rtaj~natayA saha, > Bob Hueckstedt > > Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages > Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba > Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada > http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/asian_studies > fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797 > > > From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA Thu Oct 17 21:05:44 1996 From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (Hueckstedt) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 16:05:44 -0500 Subject: Safdar Hashmi Message-ID: <161227026442.23782.11532337062930077454.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am not the best person to answer this question, i.e., what happened to Safdar Hashmi, but I do know a little. I happened to meet him briefly, in the summer of 1988, a few months before he was killed. The story I heard was along these lines. It was during the campaign for elections to, I think, the Delhi municipal corporation. Safdar and his troupe were putting on a street play that was critical of the Congress (I) person running in that campaign. In the middle of the day, I don't know where exactly, while the street play was going on, Safdar Hashmi was gunned down and killed. As I understand it, this was not a matter of communalism or artistic over-sensitivity. It was simply "power" politics. He is memorialized briefly, along with many others, at the end of the fine documentary on Punjab called _In Memory of Friends_. Also, there is now an NGO, I believe, or some such organization, that uses his name, the Safdar Hashmi Memorial Trust. I may have the name all wrong. The Hindi writers whose works I translate knew him very well. Bob Hueckstedt Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/asian_studies fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797 From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA Thu Oct 17 21:18:20 1996 From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (Hueckstedt) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 16:18:20 -0500 Subject: News-resources Message-ID: <161227026444.23782.13214108717660488351.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The gopher service at Columbia is excellent for many countries. I don't remember its address, but you can find it at the Web site below. From there go to Links useful for the Study of Asia. Then you might want to go to South Asia. There you will find news resources, updated daily, for India and Pakistan, particularly The Hindu and Dawn, respectively. Also, there is a news service for Nepal, but I forget exactly where in that links file I put it. It should be easily findable, however. Best, Bob Hueckstedt Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/asian_studies fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797 From jb.tuemmers at uni-koeln.de Thu Oct 17 16:06:38 1996 From: jb.tuemmers at uni-koeln.de (Johannes B. Tuemmers) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 18:06:38 +0200 Subject: News-resources Message-ID: <161227026437.23782.14876908099949751056.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Members, I know there is WTN-L and TIN for daily news about Tibet, but how about news-lists about other asian countries? Does anybody have recommendation where to access or how to find? all best wishes, J. Tuemmers -- Johannes B. Tuemmers jb.tuemmers at uni-koeln.de http://www.uni-koeln.de/phil-fak/indologie/jtjt2.htm From pwyzlic at pwyz.rhein.de Thu Oct 17 17:12:59 1996 From: pwyzlic at pwyz.rhein.de (pwyzlic) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 19:12:59 +0200 Subject: Book Request Message-ID: <161227026439.23782.17872449651508465070.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Hueckstedt wrote: > I am looking for the _B.rhacchabdaratnavyAkhyA_ by Bhavadeva. This is a > commentary on Hari DIk.sita's _B.rhacchabdaratna_, which is a commentary > on Bha.t.toji DIk.sita's _Prau.dhamanoramA_, which is a commentary on his > own _VaiyAkara.nasiddhAntakaumudI_. The interlibrary loan people here > have come up with no "hits" in any library of the major universities in > Canada or the major US universities that are in its data base. Any help, > suggestions or pointers are greatly appreciated. Are you sure that there exists a printed version? I have older material here and the only reference to Bhavadeva's commentary I have met with was in Aufrecht's Catalogus Catalogorum, sub voce Prau.dhamanoramA. Aufrecht listed only one manuscript to be found in one catalogue. I have checked the reference, in 1877 the manuscript was part of a private collection and this means: unaccessible then and most probably now. It seems to be a rare work. \bye Peter Wyzlic -- ########################################################################### Peter Wyzlic pwyzlic at pwyz.rhein.de ########################################################################### From neelisja at u.washington.edu Fri Oct 18 02:33:27 1996 From: neelisja at u.washington.edu (J. Neelis) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 19:33:27 -0700 Subject: News-resources Message-ID: <161227026463.23782.553518982880854782.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> One can subscribe to India-L at LISTSERV at INDNET.BGSU.EDU and Pakistan news at LISTSERV at ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU by writing: subscribe India-L/Pakistan your name Each of these news services provide regular, but not daily, postings. There is also a Sri Lanka net at slnetad at ganu.colorado.edu -Jason Neelis From neelisja at u.washington.edu Fri Oct 18 02:51:46 1996 From: neelisja at u.washington.edu (J. Neelis) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 19:51:46 -0700 Subject: H-ASIA: Asian Studies WWW Virtual Library (fwd) Message-ID: <161227026465.23782.2711032012542559578.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There is also the following list of sites for many other Asian countries which I received in an H-Asia posting a few days ago. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 06:35:01 -0700 From: Frank Conlon Reply-To: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA Subject: H-ASIA: Asian Studies WWW Virtual Library H-ASIA October 14, 1996 Asian Studies WWW Virtual Library *************************************************************************** From: "T.Matthew Ciolek" Dear Colleagues, You and your research associates and students might be interested in the following information: ************************** Asian Studies WWW Virtual Library ************************** Coombs Computing Unit, RSSS/RSPAS, Australian National University, Australia http://coombs.anu.edu.au/WWWVL-AsianStudies.html [maintained by: Dr T.Matthew Ciolek (tmciolek at coombs.anu.edu.au)] Asian Studies WWW Virtual Library is a large-scale, distributed, collaborative project providing an up-to-date guide to the networked scholarly documents, resources and information systems concerned with social sciences research in Asia. This Virtual Library is a collaborative endeavour, which - in addition to several online research facilities developed at the Coombs Computing Unit, RSSS/RSPAS, Australian National University's Coombsweb (http://coombs.anu.edu.au) server - integrates catalogueing efforts, initiative and expertise of the following WWW sites: 1.Afghanistan WWW VL http://www.rockbridge.net/personal/bichel/afghan.htp [maintained by: Anthony and Rebecca Bichel (bichel at rockbridge.net)] 2.Armenia WWW VL http://www.arminco.com/ArmeniaVL.html [maintained by: Samvel Stepanian (sam at arminco.com)] 3.Australia WWW VL http://www.psu.edu/research/anzsc/areas/au/Ausi.html [maintained by: Frank Poyas (fbp1 at psu.edu)] 4.Central Asia WWW VL http://www.rockbridge.net/personal/bichel/cenasia.htp [maintained by: Anthony and Rebecca Bichel (bichel at rockbridge.net)] 5.Indonesia WWW VL http://coombs.anu.edu.au/WWWVLPages/IndonPages/WWWVL-Indonesia.html [maintained by: Michael Laffan (Michael.Laffan at info.anu.edu.au)] 6.East Timor WWW VL http://www.uc.pt/Timor/TimorNet.html [maintained by: Joaquim Ramos de Carvalho (joaquim at mercurio.uc.pt)] 7.India WWW VL http://webhead.com/WWWVL/India/ [maintained by: Sergio A. Paoli (spaoli at fcaglp.fcaglp.unlp.edu.ar)] 8.Japan WWW VL http://fuji.stanford.edu:80/VLIB/index.html [maintained by: Burton Lee (blee at fuji.stanford.edu)] 9.Kazakhstan WWW VL http://www.rockbridge.net/personal/bichel/kazakh.htp [maintained by: Anthony and Rebecca Bichel (bichel at rockbridge.net)] 10.Kyrgyzstan WWW VL http://www.rockbridge.net/personal/bichel/kyrgyz.htp [maintained by: Anthony and Rebecca Bichel (bichel at rockbridge.net)] 11.Laos WWW VL http://www.monash.edu.au/ftp/pub/bane_lao/laoweb/laoVL.htm [maintained by: The Lao Web team (laoweb at tuddy.cc.monash.edu.au)] 12.Macau WWW VL http://www.macau.net/main/macau_vl.html [maintained by: Antonio M. L. Inacio (ainacio at macau.net)] 13.Malaysia WWW VL http://www.mtc.com.my/Virtual-Library/Malaysia.html [maintained by: MTC Adminstrator (mtc at mgate.mtc.com.my)] 14.Middle East WWW VL http://menic.utexas.edu/mes.html [maintained by: Center for Middle Eastern Studies, University of Texas at Austin (cmes at menic.utexas.edu )] 15.Mongolia WWW VL http://www.bluemarble.net/~mitch/monglinks.html [maintained by: Mitch Rice (mitch at bluemarble.net)] 16.Nepal WWW VL http://www.catmando.com/wwwvlnp.htm [maintained by: Mahendra B. Shrestha (shrestha at catmando.com)] 17.New Zealand WWW VL http://www.psu.edu/research/anzsc/areas/nz/NZi.html [maintained by: Frank Poyas (fbp1 at psu.edu)] 18.Pacific Ocean WWW VL http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/spin/wwwvl-pacific/index.html [maintained by: 'Alopi Latukefu (alopi.latukefu at anu.edu.au)] 19.Papua New Guinea WWW VL http://coombs.anu.edu.au/SpecialProj/PNG/WWWVL-PNG.html [maintained by: John Burton (John.Burton at anu.edu.au)] 20.Saudi Arabia WWW VL http://www.arablink.com/saudi-arabia/ [maintained by: Sany Zakharia (zakharia at wpi.edu)] 21.Sri Lanka WWW VL http://members.tripod.com/~hettiarachchi/sl2.html [maintained by: Rohan Hettiarachchi (r.hettiarachchi at amc.uva.nl)] 22.Tajikistan WWW VL http://www.rockbridge.net/personal/bichel/tajik.htp [maintained by: Anthony and Rebecca Bichel (bichel at rockbridge.net)] 23.Thailand WWW VL http://www.nectec.or.th/WWW-VL-Thailand.html [maintained by: Trin Tantsetthi (webmaster at nwg.nectec.or.th)] 24.Taiwan WWW VL http://peacock.tnjc.edu.tw/taiwan-wwwvl.html [maintained by: Joe Hsu (joe at peacock.tnjc.edu.tw)] 25.Tibet WWW VL http://coombs.anu.edu.au/WWWVL-TibetanStudies.html [maintained by: T.Matthew Ciolek (tmciolek at coombs.anu.edu.au)] 26.Turkmenistan WWW VL http://www.rockbridge.net/personal/bichel/turkmen.htp [maintained by: Anthony and Rebecca Bichel (bichel at rockbridge.net)] 27.Uzbekistan WWW VL http://www.rockbridge.net/personal/bichel/uzbek.htp [maintained by: Anthony and Rebecca Bichel (bichel at rockbridge.net)] 28.Vietnam WWW VL http://coombs.anu.edu.au/WWWVLPages/VietPages/WWWVL-Vietnam.html [maintained by: Vern Weitzel (vern at coombs.anu.edu.au)] Additional 'virtual librarians' are warmly invited to join this ongoing, collaborative project. Please feel free to forward this information to other interested persons or sites. - best regards - Dr T. Matthew CIOLEK tmciolek at coombs.anu.edu.au ANU Social Sciences Information Systems Administrator, Coombs Computing Unit, Research School of Social Sciences, [Coombsweb Social Sciences Server http://coombs.anu.edu.au] Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 0200, Australia ph +61 (0)6 249 0110 fax: +61 (0)6 257 1893 ========================================================================== From AmitaSarin at aol.com Fri Oct 18 16:42:59 1996 From: AmitaSarin at aol.com (AmitaSarin at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 12:42:59 -0400 Subject: Gayatri mantraa Message-ID: <161227026472.23782.3641839753410747484.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, A friend has asked me to post the following queries: 1) Can anyone supply a good translation of the Gayatri mantraa (first verse). The translations given in popular hymn books do not seem to correspond to the Sanskrit. According to what I've read, it was originally an invocation to Savitar, the Sun. 2) I know one can write a book on the subject, but can anyone offer a concise definition of "Om" 3) A translation of the Shanti Paath, with some background. Much obliged to anyone who can help. Regards, Amita Sarin amitasarin at aol.com From mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk Fri Oct 18 12:11:44 1996 From: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk (L.S. Cousins) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 13:11:44 +0100 Subject: Prof. Tokunaga's message Message-ID: <161227026470.23782.12030391537281519051.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Wed, 16 Oct 1996 yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp wrote: > Prof. Muneo Tokunaga, my repsected friend, asked me to post the following > message since he is not on our mailing list. Michio YANO > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Dear Fellow-Indologists, > > Two days ago I knew that Dr. John Smith of Cambridge is circulating > my file of the Mahaabhaarata as his file with his modifications through > Internet. If this is a claim that John Smith has not acknowledged the provenance of these files, then the statement is clearly actionable. It would be inadvisable for anyone to repeat it or for it to be carried on any server. It would be difficult to imagine a more serious libel against any scholar. It is also completely untrue. Any longstanding reader of the Indology list will have been well aware of the provenance of these files and of John Smith's corrected version. He has posted announcements of what he is doing. >He didn't let me know. I opened his homepage and read his harsh > criticism on my files. I don't mind criticism; it is rather welcome. The criticism _is_ rather harsh in the circumstances but hardly justifies such an extreme response. > But I cannot but feel very sad that he is using my files, which he > considers to be even `disasterous' in some respect, without giving > me any notice or request to use them. We all understood that these files had been made public domain. If that is not the case, then why put them on the Net ? If John Smith is mistaken here, he is certainly not the only one. It is to be hoped that after Professor Tokunaga is more fully informed as to this matter, he will reconsider his response. His generosity in making these files available to scholars has been widely and rightly praised; it is to be hoped that he will not now wish to go back on this. Lance Cousins natthi loke anindito MANCHESTER, UK Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk From KJKARTTU at Elo.Helsinki.fi Fri Oct 18 13:32:46 1996 From: KJKARTTU at Elo.Helsinki.fi (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 13:32:46 +0000 Subject: Beginnings of writing Message-ID: <161227026468.23782.10216220050061701569.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A couple of days ago Robert A. Hueckstedt referred to the Varttika 3 to P. 4.1.49 referring to Greek writing, dated it somewhat before 200 BC and asked for comments. Actually, this particular passage has been much discussed during the two classical controversies about the date of Panini and Patanjali, first by Weber et al. and again in the 1930s (see my India in Early Greek Literature 1989 for references). After these, the Greek (and Aramaic) versions of Asokan inscriptions found in Kandahar have shown that Greek writing was indeed known and used in the Northwest. There is at least one further and probably somewhat earlier Greek inscription from Kandahar and several from other parts of Afghanistan (see my list in South Asian Archaeology 1993). Though not attested epigraphically, Greek writing must have been in use in what is now Pakistan during the brief period of Achaemenian suzerainty during ten years or so beginning in 327/326 BC. Klaus Karttunen From tatelman at total.net Sat Oct 19 14:58:50 1996 From: tatelman at total.net (tatelman at total.net) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 96 10:58:50 -0400 Subject: Re John Smith's Mahaabhaarata Message-ID: <161227026478.23782.8466975205147662355.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indology List Members, I have been following the discussion developing around John Smith's use of Muneo Tokunaga's Mahaabhaarata files. First of all, I wish to record my gratitude to Prof. Tokunaga for his labours and Dr. Smith for his. Secondly, I'd also like to mention Prof. Tounaga's valuable article on metre in the Mahaabhaarata ('Statistic Survey of the "Sloka in the Mahaabhaarata', Memoirs of the Faculty of Letters, Kyoto University no. 34, March 1995, pp. 1-38), which I have found a precious resource in my own work. Thirdly, I'd like to venture a few opinions. As I understand it, the whole point of making the text of the Mahaabhaarata available on the Internet is to facilitate study and research. If Dr. Smith is able, through a year's hard work, to render Prof. Tokunaga's original texts more useful to students and scholars, I think everyone gains and no one loses. At the same time, considering the enormous labours to which Prof. Tokunaga went in order to produce the Mahaabhaarata files, without which Dr. Smith would have had no material revise, it strikes me as not unreasonable that Prof. Tokunaga would wish to be consulted before such revised files were made available to the public. If I were John Smith, I would wish to express my regrets to Prof. Tokunaga that I did not do so. But I am not, and it is not my business to tell Dr. Smith what to do. Above all, I do not think this should be regarded as a matter of who is right or wrong, or who is more right or more wrong or anything of the sort. I think the most important consideration is mutual, ongoing good-will among all those engaged in Indology and related disciplines; all other considerations, to my mind, pale in comparison. We are a small discipline, not particularly appreciated by the wider community and especially by such bodies as provide funding. This is perhaps acutely apparent to a person such as myself, who has just devoted a dozen years of hard study to a discipline that I love, but who cannot expect to obtain employment in that discipline in my own country, nor, perhaps, anywhere else. It is not astonishing that Prof. Tokunaga was stung or at least taken aback by Dr. Smith's criticism of his labours on the Mahaabhaarata. My impression is that this is because Dr. Smith's comments did not acknowledge first and foremost the enormous service that Prof. Tokunaga has performed for all of us. Perhaps if Dr. Smith had described his own revisions of the files simply as making useful changes to what was already an exceedingly valuable gift to all those engaged in Indological study, no acrimony would have arisen in the first place. I for one regard his revisions exactly in this way. Let us, then, remind ourselves of the importance of being more than ordinarily considerate to one another. If we do not do so ourselves, we can be sure that no one outside the discipline will be. I can think of no scenario more regrettable and deplorable than Sanskrit scholars falling out with one another. Let us discuss, debate, share the fruits of our research, but always endeavour to do in a spirit of great good will, grateful we have companions on the long and not always comfortable journey for which, by and large, no one outside the discipline will reward us for undertaking. Let us, indeed, cultivate the four cardinal virtues of amity, joy in others' happiness, compassion and equanimity. Finally, if Prof. Tokunaga, Dr. Smith or anyone else should revise the Mahaabhaarata files so that they can be read by an ordinary Macintosh word processor, I, for one, would be truly grateful. Regards to all. Joel Tatelman Joel Tatelman #2-293A Roncesvalles Ave., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA M6R 2M3. Tel.: (416) 535-4997 From g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sat Oct 19 04:55:38 1996 From: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Muneo Tokunaga) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 96 13:55:38 +0900 Subject: Dr. Lance Cousins' renponse Message-ID: <161227026474.23782.13319833599342634354.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dr. Lance Cousins, Thank you for your kind comment on the trouble I am now in. My answer to your mail to me is as follows. The first point is that Dr. John Smith criticizes my files, (intentionally?) misunderstanding the main objective of my files. Anyone who looks at my files, I suppose, can easily understand that I made an utmost effort to make the files usable as a word-finder of the printed text not as a replacement of the latter. What offended me is that Dr. Smith seems to criticize this point knowingly in order to justify his publication. He should have been more sincere to say that my files are OK as a word-finder although still many typing errors remain but that he wants to produce a literally `Machine-readable Mahaabhaarata' from my files. Then his remakrs on his homepage was not so surprising to me. > We all understood that these files had been made public domain. If that is > not the case, then why put them on the Net ? If John Smith is mistaken > here, he is certainly not the only one. I have told in my previous mail (through Prof. Michio Yano) why I put them on the Net. Am I wrong to think that anyone is free to revised someone else's files for his pursonal use, but that it is an etiquette at least to inform the original producer of his revision of the files if one produces his files and make them PUBLIC as his own on the Internet? I openend my files as an incentive to others who keep personal Sanskrit files by their side. Without letting them open their files, our grobal library of Sanskrit files will never be achieved. Reading your mail, I am afraid, many owners of such files will become hesitant in opening their files (as long as a minimun of the etiquette is observed). I myself is reconsidering about the publication of my files and future revisions. =============================================== Muneo TOKUNAGA ($BFA1J=!M:(B) Professor of Indian Philosophy Graduate School of Letters, Kyoto University Kyoto, Japan (606-01). Tel. 075-753-2778 email: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp =============================================== From g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sat Oct 19 09:25:07 1996 From: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Muneo Tokunaga) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 96 18:25:07 +0900 Subject: Re John Smith's Mahaabhaarata Message-ID: <161227026475.23782.8462756688868698951.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear subscribers of Indology, I joined Indology just four hours ago and sent my answer to Dr. L.S. Cousins's mail to me concerning Dr. John Smith's Mahaabhaarata, which I didn't know until recently. So I do not know what reactions had entered Indology before my subscription. Please write to me what you thought about my mail to Dr. Smith sent through Prof. Michio Yano. I hope a sort of the global Sanskrit library, which we can share with each other freely, come into being as soon as possible. The prerequisite for that goal, in my view, is for us to keep a minimun etiquette, with a fair judgment (not misunderstanding), in handling the data offered by others. This is my point. I will appreciate your response. =============================================== Muneo TOKUNAGA ($BFA1J=!M:(B) Professor of Indian Philosophy Graduate School of Letters, Kyoto University Kyoto, Japan (606-01). Tel. 075-753-2778 email: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp =============================================== From reusch at uclink4.berkeley.edu Sun Oct 20 02:41:07 1996 From: reusch at uclink4.berkeley.edu (reusch at uclink4.berkeley.edu) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 96 18:41:07 -0800 Subject: John Smith's Mahaabhaarata Message-ID: <161227026488.23782.2771085724879996646.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 16:16 10/19/96, Joel Tatelman wrote: >Dear Indology List Members, > sadhu! sadhu! (from a Mac user) From g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sat Oct 19 11:28:05 1996 From: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Muneo Tokunaga) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 96 20:28:05 +0900 Subject: waiting for your answer Message-ID: <161227026477.23782.13969249834550056068.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dr. John Smith, I have been waiting for your answer since I sent my mail to you a few days ago. I do not mind anybody's criticism on my epic files. But if it does not hit the point, I have the right to ask him to correct the judgement on them. In addition, if you had just let me know of your project using my files in advance (since it is not a simple revision for a personal usage), I would have been much happier with your files. We have to have this kind of mishap solved on this occasion in order to guarantee a free exchange of Sanskrit files among Indologits. =============================================== Muneo TOKUNAGA ($BFA1J=!M:(B) Professor of Indian Philosophy Graduate School of Letters, Kyoto University Kyoto, Japan (606-01). Tel. 075-753-2778 email: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp =============================================== From g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sat Oct 19 19:38:13 1996 From: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Muneo Tokunaga) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 04:38:13 +0900 Subject: Re tatelman Message-ID: <161227026480.23782.16496364787965526886.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Joel Tatelman, I feel very happy to see your mail of fair and objective judgment. It is a consolation to me. I have no acrimony to Dr. John Smith himself; I only felt disappointment at his misunderstanding of the purpose of my epic files. I try to find someone who can make the Mac version of the epic files. =============================================== Muneo TOKUNAGA ($BFA1J=!M:(B) Professor of Indian Philosophy Graduate School of Letters, Kyoto University Kyoto, Japan (606-01). Tel. 075-753-2778 email: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp =============================================== From g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sat Oct 19 19:56:42 1996 From: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Muneo Tokunaga) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 04:56:42 +0900 Subject: Re John Smith's MBh Message-ID: <161227026482.23782.7671549627624787520.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dr. L.S. Cousins, I appreciate your repeated comment on this mishap. They might have been some confusions on my side, too, because I joined Indology just yesterday. Let me repeat my standpoint again. I have no acrimony about Dr. John Smith. I am only asking him to correct his remarks on my epic files. Dr. Smith must be smart enough to understand the main purpose of my files. Since his files are of quite different sort from mine, there is no need for him to denounce my files. Let us stop putting down the files offered by others from goodwill. There is no merit it in for our society. =============================================== Muneo TOKUNAGA ($BFA1J=!M:(B) Professor of Indian Philosophy Graduate School of Letters, Kyoto University Kyoto, Japan (606-01). Tel. 075-753-2778 email: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp =============================================== From g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sat Oct 19 21:19:26 1996 From: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Muneo Tokunaga) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 06:19:26 +0900 Subject: finale Message-ID: <161227026484.23782.2724571102515261426.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologits, I can end this argument on the MBh files with a very fair and objective judgment by Dr. Joel Tatelman. I thank him for it. I am sorry for poluting this academic network for several days. But I don't think it was quite futile. Through this argument I think we have come a little bit closer to the consensusconcerning sharing digitalized files with each other. I would like to continue contributing this society in a positive way. =============================================== Muneo TOKUNAGA ($BFA1J=!M:(B) Professor of Indian Philosophy Graduate School of Letters, Kyoto University Kyoto, Japan (606-01). Tel. 075-753-2778 email: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp =============================================== From lehmann at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Oct 20 14:26:27 1996 From: lehmann at alcor.concordia.ca (Jutta K. Lehmann) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 09:26:27 -0500 Subject: Re John Smith's Mahaabhaarata Message-ID: <161227026490.23782.12906496120640753221.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Well done Joel. Your sentiments match mine entirely. However, I'm a little puzzled by your reference to the Mac. I downloaded the original files to my Mac at home here, and after doing a bit of "search and replace" I converted the files into my preferred font. You may contact me by E-mail if you need any further info on this, or - since you are in Toronto, you can contact me here in Montreal phone (514) 844-6267. Cheers Julian Woods From g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sun Oct 20 00:46:56 1996 From: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Muneo Tokunaga) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 09:46:56 +0900 Subject: closing statement Message-ID: <161227026486.23782.15732672254512894791.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> [I remail this closing statement to Indology, which was returned by error.] Dear Indologists, I can end this argument on the MBh files with a fair and objective judgment presented by Dr. Joel Tatelman. I thank him from heart for it. Also I thank all those who joined in discussion and gave me valuable instructions and comments on this matter. I am sorry for poluting this academic network for several days. But I don't think it was quite futile. We had to discuss on the problem of sharing digitalized files sooner or later. Through this argument I feel we have come a little bit closer to the consensus about this matter. Let's exchange our files with due respect to each other and establish the global Sanskrit archives through this network. I will continue contributing this society in a positive way. =============================================== Muneo TOKUNAGA ($BFA1J=!M:(B) Professor of Indian Philosophy Graduate School of Letters, Kyoto University Kyoto, Japan (606-01). Tel. 075-753-2778 email: g53772 at sakura.kudpc.kyoto-u.ac.jp =============================================== From reusch at uclink4.berkeley.edu Sun Oct 20 17:52:48 1996 From: reusch at uclink4.berkeley.edu (reusch at uclink4.berkeley.edu) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 09:52:48 -0800 Subject: PC vs Mac Skt. files Message-ID: <161227026493.23782.535407274602070843.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 14:32 10/20/96, Julian Woods wrote: > > and after doing a bit of "search and >replace" I converted the files into my preferred font. I have done that, too, but it takes quite some time and patience. I have seen that in some cases, such as the HOS Rg Veda, there are programs for PC users to adjust their fonts. Those programs, needless to say, won't work on a Mac. And in that particular case, since the RV has also accents besides the basic diacritics, the time and patience requirement went really up. (I needed to set up a specific sequence to do the replacements, etc.) Is there any better way? Best wishes, Beatrice From HFArnold at aol.com Sun Oct 20 20:50:16 1996 From: HFArnold at aol.com (HFArnold at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 16:50:16 -0400 Subject: Re John Smith's Mahaabhaarata Message-ID: <161227026495.23782.2549478899370008962.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Julian Woods writes: "I converted the files into my preferred font. You may contact me by E-mail if you need any further info on this, or - since you are in Toronto, you can contact me here in Montreal phone (514) 844-6267." Might you post "further info on this" to this list for the benefit of other Mac users in a PC world? Sincerely, Harold F. Arnold From zysk at is2.nyu.edu Mon Oct 21 11:24:15 1996 From: zysk at is2.nyu.edu (Kenneth G. Zysk) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 07:24:15 -0400 Subject: Copyright Message-ID: <161227026502.23782.12714783108894596490.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would like some clarification about "copyright" in the case of electronic files. In the USA, one cannot just say that a piece of written work is "copyrighted". There is the process that must take place. If I recall, an application must be made to the Library of Congress, accompanied by two copies of the work. The copyright is then issued by the LC. I assume that a similar procedure occurs in the UK via the British Library, and other places as well. Two questions arise out of this: 1. Do electronic materials follow the same procedure for copyright? 2. Where would the copyright be issued? The country of the author or the country of the publisher. In the former case, it would be Japan, in the latter, the UK. Best, Ken Zysk From lehmann at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Oct 21 14:58:48 1996 From: lehmann at alcor.concordia.ca (Jutta K. Lehmann) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 09:58:48 -0500 Subject: Re John Smith's Mahaabhaarata Message-ID: <161227026511.23782.12216497117247459767.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This will serve as a reply to Harold Arnold, Beatrice Reusch, Joel Tatelman and other "Mac users in a PC world" who have asked for more information on converting Prof. Tokunaga's voluminous files to a Mac font format. Let me say in advance that I agree with Beatrice that a manual search and replace would take some time and patience (the Rg Veda would no doubt be a nightmare). The first thing to consider is the particular font you wish to use (e.g. Normyn, Mytimes, Madhushree, Indic Times etc.). The task is to translate the source coding (in this case Tokunaga's system) into the keyboard equivalents of your preferred font. Of course you could proceed by doing a letter-by-letter "search and replace" with your word processor. A much quicker method is to use a search and replace utility such as Torquemada (the one I happen to use). The following information from the ReadMe file will explain better than I can: "Torquemada is a Macintosh bulk search and replace utility. It operates on files of type 'TEXT' and incorporates a number of features to facilitate the wholesale revision of text. Among these are more than 30 "wildcards" of various stripes, which make it possible to write very elaborate search and replace strings. Strings are stored in sets of up to twenty strings per set. Up to 32 set files can be deployed at once, yielding a total of 640 search and replace strings. Under System Seven, up to 32 set files and up to 128 text files can be dropped on the program's icon; each set will be run against each text file in an unattended batch." Once you have set up your parameter, the program does its thing in a matter of seconds (Yes, the whole of the Mahabharata in a matter of seconds - unbelievable!). Version 1.1.0 is still freeware although the author has also developed a commercial version. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the site where I downloaded this, but it should still be available on one of the Info-Mac sites, at Stanford, or at the Merit Archive. Hope this helps. Julian Woods From jonathan.silk at wmich.edu Mon Oct 21 14:30:37 1996 From: jonathan.silk at wmich.edu (jonathan.silk at wmich.edu) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 10:30:37 -0400 Subject: Re tatelman Message-ID: <161227026519.23782.13518094296607505838.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I cannot say *why* this is so, being nearly computer illiterate, but I had absolutely no trouble downloading and reading Prof. Tokunaga's files on my Mac, using NisusWriter (= SoloWriter in Japan) -- but I think MSWord should also work equally well. If you use a CSX font there is nothing to convert; otherwise you have to run a few global replaces (e.g. to change it into Norman font). Let me just add my 2 cents worth; I cannot imagine that there is any Sanskritist or Indologist in the world -- and certainly not on this list -- who does not have the highest appreciation for Prof. Tokunaga's tremendous efforts to input the *entire* MBh and R, in the first place, (and for this, as one says in Hebrew, dayenu -- this would have been enough), but to exercise (now, as the Buddhists say) not only his prajnaa but his karu.naa in making available to us all the fruits of his labors. If Prof. Tokunaga feels unappreciated by Dr. Smith, or even betrayed, there is nothing I can do about this (I think only Dr. Smith can), but I think I can, for my part, assure him that he is certainly *not* unappreciated by others -- many, many others. (I myself have already used his data for a forthcoming article, and duly cited it with appreciation.) J Silk From jonathan.silk at wmich.edu Mon Oct 21 14:44:16 1996 From: jonathan.silk at wmich.edu (jonathan.silk at wmich.edu) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 10:44:16 -0400 Subject: Copyright Message-ID: <161227026516.23782.17466419265526488545.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Although I have no specialized knowledge about this, I think Ken is wrong about US copyrights. Any work, as I understand it, whether registered or not, is *automatically* copyrighted, unless this right is explicitly waived. Registration is more or less merely a way of formalizing the process which takes place automatically. J Silk From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Mon Oct 21 10:20:21 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 11:20:21 +0100 Subject: Prof. Tokunaga's message Message-ID: <161227026497.23782.16510304568455744032.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, L.S. Cousins wrote: > We all understood that these [Mahabharata and Ramayana] files had been > made public domain. If that is not the case, then why put them on the > Net ? If John Smith is mistaken here, he is certainly not the only one. No, the files have never been public domain. The readme file accompanying the files make it very clear that Prof. Tokunaga has retained the copyright on these files: ==================================================================== | These files are copyrighted by Prof. Muneo Tokunaga. | | They may be freely distributed and used for scholarly purposes, | | but anyone wishing to use the files for commercial purposes must | | apply to the copyright holder for permission to copy the file. | ==================================================================== When Prof. Tokunaga was first pondering on how to distribute these files, he was indeed planning to make them public domain. Through Prof. Yano, I suggested that he should add a statement like the one above. This statement protects his intellectual rights, while at the same time serving international scholarship with great generosity. This statement is in the spirit of the GNU public license (although it does not follow it in certain respects). Since Prof. Tokunaga owns the copyright on these files, I think he would probably be within his rights to deny the right to copy the files to anybody he wishes. This is clearly not his intention, as the above statement makes clear. Nevertheless, the files are *not* public domain. Obviously there are several difficulties: since the copyright statement on *this* copy of the files says that copies may be made for "scholarly purposes," it might be argued that if he changed his mind, the change would only apply to future releases which had a different copyright statement on them. I don't know if copyright holders are allowed to alter their copying conditions retroactively (I think they are, but I'm not certain). Secondly, there are the practical issues that arise from the files now being "out there" on the internet, and on people's disks. In practical terms, control is not possible. However, one would of course expect scholars to apply the highest standards of probity and integrity in their own dealings with each other, and if Prof. Tokunaga were to issue a formal request for his files to be withdrawn, deleted, or whatever, then the only honourable course would be to comply with his wishes. However, I very much doubt that it will ever come to that. Finally, this is a diachronic issue, not merely synchronic. As we know, Prof. Tokunaga has now released two "upgrades" to the texts (one merely a temporary intermediate release). This process may be expected to continue (we hope), as more people use the files and feed their refinements back to the maintainer of the master copy of the files, Prof. Tokunaga. It is perfectly possible that Prof. Tokunaga will change the terms of distribution for future enhancements of the files, although again, I doubt that he would wish to do so. There are several other issues one could imagine here too, concerning copyright, intellectual property rights, version control, and so forth. I leave this as an exercise for the reader. :-) Best wishes, Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE, England FAX: 44 171 611 8545 From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Mon Oct 21 10:27:49 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 11:27:49 +0100 Subject: Re John Smith's Mahaabhaarata Message-ID: <161227026500.23782.16638323299649069855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I should like to thank Joel Tatleman for his thoughtful message, which expresses my feelings on this issue too. Best wishes, Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE, England FAX: 44 171 611 8545 From athr at loc.gov Mon Oct 21 17:12:46 1996 From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 13:12:46 -0400 Subject: New SAT WWW Page--Sri Ramana, Vedanta & Nonduality (fwd) Message-ID: <161227026522.23782.6160779113424457313.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 13:19:01 PDT From: Stanley Rice To: athr at loc.gov Subject: New SAT WWW Page--Sri Ramana, Vedanta & Nonduality Dear Allen, You may be very interested in the new Home Page of SAT, the Society of Abidance in Truth. It focuses on Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi, the great tradition of spiritual Nonduality in general, and that of Advaita Vedanta in particular. The address is: http://www.SATRamana.org/ --------------------------------------------------------------- This is a page rich in many aspects of Nonduality. Note especially the December 27-29 '96 Meditation Retreat.* There is access to the following from the home page: INFORMATION ABOUT SAT, the Society of Abidance in Truth http://www.SATRamana.org/satinfo1.htm Directions to the SAT Temple in Santa Cruz Events open to the public http://www.SATRamana.org/events.htm * NONDUAL MEDITATION RETREAT at SAT, December 27-29, 1996 http://www.SATRamana.org/medret1.htm BHAGAVAN SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI A gallery of exquisite color pictures of Sri Ramana Maharshi Who is Sri Ramana Maharshi? http://www.SATRamana.org/whoisra1.htm Infinite Wisdom and Bliss - on 'Self-Enquiry'(1-2) of Sri Ramana Everyday stories concerning Sri Ramana (cow Lakshmi) How one devotee came to Sri Ramana NONDUAL BOOKSHELF AND PUBLICATIONS A review of the 'Ribhu Gita' (recently published by SAT) About 'Nirguna Manasa Puja' by Sankara (published by SAT) Nondual books available from 'Treasures of the Heart' bookstore http://www.SATRamana.org/catalis1.htm FROM THE TRADITION OF ADVAITA VEDANTA--PURE NONDUALITY The text of Chapters 1-3 of the Ribhu Gita http://www.SATRamana.org/chapter1.htm Ashtavakra's Song: the experience of Nonduality Extract from the Mandukya Upanishad and Karika MESSAGES FROM SRI RAMANA DEVOTEES AROUND THE WORLD >From Ramana Maharshi Centre for Learning, Bangalore: shrines, publications, seminars, cultural & student programs http://www.SATRamana.org/rmcentre.htm >From other Ramana devotees around the world SAT, CLOSE-UP AND IN MORE DETAIL Satsang with Master Nome http://www.SATRamana.org/nome11.htm 'Among the Wise' -- activities at SAT Ashram >From 'Reflections,' the SAT Newsletter Notes on a satsang, and life at SAT Ashram, by Shanti Coble Various support activities of SAT, described http://www.SATRamana.org/support.htm We hope that you will not only visit this page, but may choose to contribute letters and news -- in response to the materials, or to communications from other devotees. Almost every link on the page allows you to communicate with us easily. Please let us hear from you. And please forward this message to anyone who may be interested in this resource. Thank you. OM NAMO BHAGAVATE SRI RAMANAYA http://www.SATRamana.org/images/nomrambw.gif Master Nome and Sri Ramana Maharshi -- On behalf of SAT, the Society of Abidance in Truth. Honoring Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi, and the great Nondual tradition. Reply to: ramana at cruzio.com. WWW: http://www.SATRamana.org/ (from: Stan Rice, srice at cruzio.com) From vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu Mon Oct 21 17:22:27 1996 From: vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 13:22:27 -0400 Subject: Copyright: meta questions Message-ID: <161227026525.23782.5733240408477608080.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The recent flurry of messages raise, in my mind, two questions. Note that these are not questions about etiquette of ackonwledging others work that we use, but legal rights. First: In US at least, it is not supposed to be possible to copyright material whose expression is unique. The usual examples are formulas and ``laws of nature''. Now would samhita and pada texts of Rgveda be copyrightable? Even if I happen to the first one to type them in? Should they be? Second: Due to changes in laws, when various countries signed some treaty or other, or even fortuens in wars (Germany after world wars), editions published at various times in various places may not be in copyright. Does that mean that by typing them in, I can claim legal copyright on it? To be specific, can anyone except BORI claim copyright on the critical edition of the Mahabharata? It seems to me etiquette should be enfored by the community of scholars, without bringing in lawyers and courts. What would happen if people get facsimiles of manuscripts and then copyright them without the consent of the manusript owner? We in the West may be able to get away with it, but that would be at best unethical and likely to lead to illwill and lessened availabilty of manuscripts. From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Mon Oct 21 13:41:59 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 14:41:59 +0100 Subject: Copyright Message-ID: <161227026506.23782.5815973004574014661.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> As far as I know, the formal procedures Ken refers to are not strictly necessary, or at least not necessary outside the USA. I believe (but I may be wrong) that to assert your ownership of the copyright of a copyable product, all you have to do is to include a copyright statement, or the international copyright sign, name, and date, on the product. ... I've just had a word with our legal department, and their informal opinion confirms my belief: the assertion of copyright is all that is necessary to stake the claim. It is apparently not necessary to go through any more formal procedure. Things may be different in the USA, and our specialist in US law is being consulted about this. More later. Best wishes, Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE, England FAX: 44 171 611 8545 From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Mon Oct 21 13:44:34 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 14:44:34 +0100 Subject: Copyright Message-ID: <161227026509.23782.4562426493962223598.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A further point on Ken's message: fighting copyright battles in foreign countries is difficult and expensive. But, if copyright is established on a product, then it can be defended in most countries, because almost all countries in the world are signatories to the International Copyright Convention, and have agreed at a supra-national level to abide by its terms. Best wishes, Dominik From martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de Mon Oct 21 13:50:51 1996 From: martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de (Fco. Javier Mart177nez Garc177a) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 14:50:51 +0100 Subject: Copyright Message-ID: <161227026504.23782.13088455004740991551.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > application must be made to the Library of Congress, accompanied by a very common mistake! What about the Berne Convention? s. http://www.pitt.edu/~skvarka/education/copyright/ ......... One of the biggest mistakes that people believe is that if a work has no copyright notice, it is not copyrighted. The correct form of a copyright notice is "Copyright or ) (date) by (author/owner)" (Templeton 1). Many people believe that if this notice is absent, they can post, use, or take any work on the Internet. Although no name can be copyrighted, the owner's work is (Templeton 2). In fact, everything from April 1, 1989 is copyrighted by the owner or author whether is has a notice or not. Most nations follow the same rules set up by the Berne copyright convention (Templeton 1). The Berne convention created uniform laws for worldwide works (Lussier 1). One of these laws was everything created privately and originally after April 1, 1989 is copyrighted. All Internet users must assume that the work is copyrighted, unless otherwise specified by the author. see further a very useful Document under http://www.clari.net/brad/copymyths.html 1) "If it doesn't have a copyright notice, it's not copyrighted." This was true in the past, but today almost all major nations follow the Berne copyright convention. For example, in the USA, almost everything created privately and originally after April 1, 1989 is copyrighted and protected whether it has a notice or not. The default you should assume for other people's works is that they are copyrighted and may not be copied unless you know otherwise. There are some old works that lost protection without notice, but frankly you should not risk it unless you know for sure. 3) "If it's posted to Usenet it's in the public domain." False. Nothing modern is in the public domain anymore unless the owner explicitly puts it in the public domain(*). Explicitly, as in you have a note from the author/owner saying, "I grant this to the public domain." Those exact words or words very much like them. Some argue that posting to Usenet implicitly grants permission to everybody to copy the posting within fairly wide bounds, and others feel that Usenet is an automatic store and forward network where all the thousands of copies made are done at the command (rather than the consent) of the poster. This is a matter of some debate, but even if the former is true (and in this writer's opinion we should all pray it isn't true) it simply would suggest posters are implicitly granting permissions "for the sort of copying one might expect when one posts to Usenet" and in no case is this a placement of material into the public domain. Furthermore it is very difficult for an implicit licence to supersede an explicitly stated licence that the copier was aware of. Note that all this assumes the poster had the right to post the item in the first place. If the poster didn't, then all the copies are pirate, and no implied licence or theoretical reduction of the copyright can take place. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr. Fco. Javier Martinez Garcia Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft | tel. +49- 69- 7982 2847 Universitdt Frankfurt | (sekr.) +49- 69- 7982 3139 Postfach 11 19 32 | fax. +49- 69- 7982 2873 D-60054 Frankfurt | martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Mon Oct 21 14:16:54 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 15:16:54 +0100 Subject: Copyright Message-ID: <161227026513.23782.4260543725525331061.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I should like to thank Dr Garcia for his web references to Copyright sites. I have now incorporated these into the INDOLOGY web pages under "Virtual E-text Archive of Indic texts". See http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html Best wishes, Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE, England FAX: 44 171 611 8545 From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Tue Oct 22 08:48:22 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 09:48:22 +0100 Subject: Copyright: meta questions Message-ID: <161227026530.23782.15123248011809583341.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Vidhyanath K. Rao wrote: > To be specific, can anyone except BORI claim copyright on the critical > edition of the Mahabharata? This is important: copyright isn't a general thing about intellectual rights; it's a very specific law about actual copying, reproduction, of specific physical objects. The Tokunaga files are not a reproduction of the BORI crit. ed. ("by any means, electronic or otherwise"). If the BORI ed. had been scanned, and shoved through an OCR, then copyright might have been violated. But the Tokunaga files, if you examine them, are quite clearly not a raw copy of the BORI edition. Based on it, yes; copy no. The fact that Prof. Tokunaga lemmatized the text is an intellectual contribution, and makes the e-text quite distinct from the printed edition. Best wishes, Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE, England FAX: 44 171 611 8545 From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Tue Oct 22 09:16:47 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 10:16:47 +0100 Subject: Lecture by Francis Zimmerman Message-ID: <161227026533.23782.2375275860741220669.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Colleagues in the London area who are not on the Wellcome Institute mailing list may wish to know about a lecture this afternoon at the Institute. Dr Francis Zimmerman, (L'Ecole des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Sociales, Paris) will be speaking on "The Astavaidya Tradition - History and Anthropology of Ayurveda in Kerala". Time: 4:30 (tea), 4:30 talk begins Place: Franks room II, mezzanine floor, Wellcome Building (address below). Everyone is welcome. Best wishes, Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE, England FAX: 44 171 611 8545 >?From 100734.2313 at CompuServe.COM 22 96 Oct EDT 11:05:56 Date: 22 Oct 96 11:05:56 EDT From: Hans-Georg Tuerstig <100734.2313 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: email in India Can anybody tell me how I can get and send email via compuserve in / from India? Pls send your reply directly to me 100734.2313 at compuserve.com Thank you very much. Hans-Georg Tuerstig >?From 100734.2313 at CompuServe.COM 22 96 Oct EDT 11:05:56 Date: 22 Oct 96 11:05:56 EDT From: Hans-Georg Tuerstig <100734.2313 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: email in India Sender: ltserver at liverpool.ac.uk [resend after server crash --list.admin] Can anybody tell me how I can get and send email via compuserve in / from India? Pls send your reply directly to me 100734.2313 at compuserve.com Thank you very much. Hans-Georg Tuerstig From n-iyanag at ppp.bekkoame.or.jp Tue Oct 22 02:40:47 1996 From: n-iyanag at ppp.bekkoame.or.jp (n-iyanag at ppp.bekkoame.or.jp) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 11:40:47 +0900 Subject: Prof. Tokunaga's message (Copyright and etiquette) Message-ID: <161227026527.23782.6331778501908435441.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, First, I would like to repeat Jonathan Silk's words, who wrote: >.................I cannot imagine that there is any Sanskritist or >Indologist in the world -- and certainly not on this list -- who does not >have the highest appreciation for Prof. Tokunaga's tremendous >efforts to input the *entire* MBh and R, in the first place, (and for >this, as one says in Hebrew, dayenu -- this would have been enough), but >to exercise (now, as the Buddhists say) not only his prajnaa but his >karu.naa in making available to us all the fruits of his labors. > This is exactly what I think. That said, I would like to point out that the copyright law and the etiquette are two different things. The copyright law is a social thing, a law having its history, having been made necessary mainly because of some economical and industrial reasons. It seems to be evolving quickly, but as all laws, it is conservative, and certainly must be changed to be adapted to the current situation of "information revolution". The law can be different for each country, and everybody is not supposed to know all its details. Personally, I tend to think of it as "a necessary evil" -- I personally think that we should make our efforts for a more freedom in the information circulation. On the other hand, the etiquette is also a social thing, but it is at the same time a personal thing. It is not because we can be object of a lawsuit that we should not copy things from others works and not recognize it explicitely. Everybody is supposed to be aware of the etiquette. We should have more freedom as far as the law is concerned, but we should be more strict in regard to the etiquette... Of course, I know that all this is somewhat "idealist"... The "necessary evil" is necessary as far as we live in our "imperfect world". But I think that it is important to be aware of the difference of the law and the etiquette. Dr. Dominik Wujastyk wrote about the "GNU public license spirit". I don't know if the GNU public license is really valid from the strict point of view of the copyright law. But I heard that the GNU public license has been made possible because of the somewhat "revolutionary and beatnick spirit" of some UNIX programmers... Anyway, the copyright statement put at the top of Prof. Tokunaga's files, reproduced here by Dr. Wujastyk, is very interesting: > > ==================================================================== > | These files are copyrighted by Prof. Muneo Tokunaga. | > | They may be freely distributed and used for scholarly purposes, | > | but anyone wishing to use the files for commercial purposes must | > | apply to the copyright holder for permission to copy the file. | > ==================================================================== > I would tend to think that to avoid misunderstandings such as that happened to Prof. Tokunaga, it would be good to add to that statement something like this: "Anyone wishing to modify their entire contents [of the files] in any way and make the result *publicly available*, must apply to the copyright holder for permission to do so." Again, in my feeling, this kind of thing should not be "juridical thing" -- but a statement like this could avoid many misunderstandings...?? Just my 2 yen... Best regards, Nobumi Iyanaga Tokyo, Japan From reimann at uclink.berkeley.edu Tue Oct 22 19:11:56 1996 From: reimann at uclink.berkeley.edu (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 12:11:56 -0700 Subject: Copyright: meta questions Message-ID: <161227026536.23782.14635535784715627964.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 07:07 PM 10/21/96 BST, Vidhyanath K. Rao wrote: >First: In US at least, it is not supposed to be possible to copyright >material whose expression is unique. The usual examples are formulas >and ``laws of nature''. Now would samhita and pada texts of Rgveda be >copyrightable? Even if I happen to the first one to type them in? >Should they be? > >To be specific, can anyone except BORI claim copyright on the critical >edition of the Mahabharata? As I understand it, what prof. Tokunaga has a well-deserved copyright on is not the Mahabharata itself, but his particular electronic version of it; just as a translator of a classical text owns the copyright to his particular translation, but not to the text itself. In that sense, yes, I suppose the BORI has the copyright to the critical edition. Luis Gonzalez-Reimann University of California, Berkeley From apandey at u.washington.edu Tue Oct 22 22:06:45 1996 From: apandey at u.washington.edu (Anshuman Pandey) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 15:06:45 -0700 Subject: The AaraNya KaaNDa of the SV. Message-ID: <161227026545.23782.10518563439309583490.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello Gentlemen - Please pardon my changing the topic from copyright laws and ethics to the Saamaveda. In his translation of the Saamaveda (Veda Pratishthana, New Delhi, 1991-1992), Satya Prakash Sarasvati mentions that the aaraNya kaaNDa/arcika of the puurvaarcika is comprised of four separate parva-s, namely the arka parva, dvandava parva, vaacovrata parva, and the shukriya parva. But in doing so, he fails to mention the verse numbers at which these parvas begin and end. Can anyone provide me with information regarding these divisions of the AaraNya KaaNDa, or lead me to sources which could? Thank you. Regards, Anshuman Pandey --- Anshuman Pandey | apandey at u.washington.edu | University of Washington "Life is an impossible scheme, and love an imperceptible dream. Face the facts, that's what it's always been. Relax. What you see is what you've seen, What you get is a new philosophy." From phijag at zelacom.com Tue Oct 22 19:07:34 1996 From: phijag at zelacom.com (phijag at zelacom.com) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 15:07:34 -0400 Subject: email in India Message-ID: <161227026540.23782.13632220592861588058.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I can't tell you that but I know that whatever abides in this, abides in That. Mahasamadhi intensive is over. A public talk takes place on this coming Saturday. Then nothing till the Christmas retreat - which will include a 5 day course on the 18th chapter of the Jnanesvari in honor of Jnanesvar's mahasamadhi. Life goes on . . .goodl luck in connecting or at least finding out how to . . . All the best - rejoice in bharatmata. John From HFArnold at aol.com Tue Oct 22 20:54:17 1996 From: HFArnold at aol.com (HFArnold at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 16:54:17 -0400 Subject: Re John Smith's Mahaabhaarata Message-ID: <161227026542.23782.5511433438973376526.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks to Julian Woods for the instructions on how to convert Prof.Tokunaga's Mbh. files to a Mac font. Harold F. Arnold From girish at mushika.wanet.com Wed Oct 23 14:58:22 1996 From: girish at mushika.wanet.com (girish at mushika.wanet.com) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 96 07:58:22 -0700 Subject: Shiva Sahasranama Message-ID: <161227026548.23782.3505379840624111854.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am interested in authoritative commentaries on the Shiva Sahasranama from the Mahabharata. I have heard of one by Niilaka.n.tha. What is the time frame of this bhaasyam? Are any books available with the original text? Are there other bhaasyam-s on this subject? Thanks for any help you can provide. ----------------------------------------------------------- Girish Sharma San Diego, CA girish at mushika.wanet.com From athr at loc.gov Thu Oct 24 15:02:55 1996 From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 11:02:55 -0400 Subject: Copyright in US law Message-ID: <161227026551.23782.3705032161455199382.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The following is an official statement of US Copyright law downloaded from the Library of Congress. Parts have gotten a bit garbled in the process but the main points I think are clear. N.B. the following in particular: 1. There are two international copyright conventions, the Universal Copyright Convention and the Berne Convention. The U.S. long belonged to the former but only recently has signed on the to the latter, which necessitated various changes in U.S. copyright law. 2. Copyright in the U.S. is now inherent, i.e. one does not have to register a work to be protected by it, although registration does provide significant legal advantages. 3. Computer databases are copyrightable. I am not going to comment on the particulars of the discussion of the Mahabharata database that has been going on in this list. Allen Thrasher Allen W. Thrasher Senior Reference Librarian Southern Asia Section Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4814 tel. (202) 707-5600 fax (202) 707-1724 email: athr at loc.gov COPYRIGHT BASICS WHAT COPYRIGHT IS Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States (title 17, U.S. Code) to the authors of "original works of authorship" including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works. This protection is available to both published and unpublished works. Section 106 of the Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to do and to authorize others to do the following: -- To reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords; -- To prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work; -- To distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending; -- To perform the copyrighted work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works; and -- To display the copyrighted work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work. It is illegal for anyone to violate any of the rights provided by the Act to the owner of copyright. These rights, however, are not unlimited in scope. Sections 107 through 119 of the Copyright Act establish limitations on these rights. In some cases, these limitations are specified exemptions from copyright liability. One major limitation is the doctrine of "fair use," which is given a statutory basis in section 107 of the Act. In other instances, the limitation takes the form of a "compulsory license" under which certain limited uses of copyrighted works are permitted upon payment of specified royalties and compliance with statutory conditions. For further information about the limitations of any of these rights, consult the Copyright Act or write to the Copyright Office. WHO CAN CLAIM COPYRIGHT ? Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form; that is, it is an incident of the process of authorship. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created it. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright. In the case of works made for hire, the employer and not the employee is presumptively considered the author. Section 101 of the copyright statute defines a "work made for hire" as: ? her employment; or? contribution to a collective work, as a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, as a translation, as a supplementary work, as a compilation, as an instructional text, as a test, as answer material for a test, or as an atlas, if the parties expressly agree in a written instrument signed by them that the work shall be considered a work made for hire.... The authors of a joint work are co-owners of the copyright in the work, unless there is an agreement to the contrary. Copyright in each separate contribution to a periodical or other collective work is distinct from copyright in the collective work as a whole and vests initially with the author of the contribution. Two General Principles -- Mere ownership of a book, manuscript, painting, or any other copy or phonorecord does not give the possessor the copyright. The law provides that transfer of ownership of any material object that embodies a protected work does not of itself convey any rights in the copyright. -- Minors may claim copyright, but state laws may regulate the business dealings involving copyrights owned by minors. For information on relevant state laws, consult an attorney. COPYRIGHT AND NATIONAL ORIGIN OF THE WORK Copyright protection is available for all unpublished works, regardless of the nationality or domicile of the author. Published works are eligible for copyright protection in the United States if any one of the following conditions is met: -- On the date of first publication, one or more of the authors is a national or domiciliary of the United States or is a national, domiciliary, or sovereign authority of a foreign nation that is a party to a copyright treaty to which the United States is also a party, or is a stateless person wherever that person may be domiciled; or -- The work is first published in the United States or in a foreign nation that, on the date of first publication, is a party to the Universal Copyright Convention; or the work comes within the scope of a Presidential proclamation; or -- The work is first published on or after March 1, 1989, in a foreign nation that on the date of first publication, is a party to the Berne Convention; or, if the work is not first published in a country party to the Berne Convention, it is published (on or after March 1,1989) within 30 days of first publication in a country that is party to the Berne Convention; or the work, first published on or after March 1, 1989, is a pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work that is incorporated in a permanent structure located in the United States; or, if the work, first published on or after March 1, 1989, is a published audiovisual work, all the authors are legal entities with headquarters in the United States. WHAT WORKS ARE PROTECTED? fixed in a tangible form of expression. The fixation need not be directly perceptible, so long as it may be communicated with the aid of a machine or device. Copyrightable works include the following categories: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? These categories should be viewed quite broadly: for example, computer programs and most "compilations" are registrable as "literary works;" maps and architectural plans are registrable as "pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works." WHAT IS NOT PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT Several categories of material are generally not eligible for statutory copyright protection. These include among others: -- Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of ex- pression. For example: choreographic works that have not been notated or recorded, or improvisational speeches or performances that have not been written or recorded. -- Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents. -- Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description, explanation, or illustration. -- Works consisting entirely of information that is common property and containing no original authorship. For example: standard calendars, height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables taken from public documents or other common sources. HOW TO SECURE A COPYRIGHT Copyright Secured Automatically Upon Creation The way in which copyright protection is secured under the present law is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright (see following NOTE). There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. ? NOTE: Before 1978, statutory copyright was generally secured by the act of publication with notice of copyright, assuming compliance with all other relevant statutory conditions. Works in the public domain on January 1, 1978 ( for example, works published without satisfying all conditions for securing statutory copyright under the Copyright Act of 1909) remain in the public domain under the current act. Statutory copyright could also be secured before 1978 by the act of registration in the case of certain unpublished works and works eligible for ad interim copyright. The current Act automatically extends to full term (sectin 304 sets the term) copyright for all works including those subject to ad interim copyright if ad interim registration has been made on or before June 30, 1978. * * * * Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. "Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. "Phonorecords" are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CD's, or LP's. Thus, for example, a song (the "work") can be fixed in sheet music ("copies") or in phonograph disks ("phonorecords"), or both. If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part of the work that is fixed on a particular date constitutes the created work as of that date. PUBLICATION Publication is no longer the key to obtaining statutory copyright as it was under the Copyright Act of 1909. However, publication remains important to copyright owners. The Copyright Act defines publication as follows: "Publication" is the distribution of copies or phonorecords of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending. The offering to distribute copies or phonorecords to a group of persons for purposes of further distribution, public performance, or public display constitutes publication. A public performance or display of a work does not of itself constitute publication. A further discussion of the definition of "publication" can be found in the legislative history of the Act. The legislative reports define "to the public" as distribution to persons under no explicit or implicit restrictions with respect to disclosure of the contents. The reports state that the definition makes it clear that the sale of phonorecords constitutes publication of the underlying work, for example, the musical, dramatic, or literary work embodied in a phonorecord. The reports also state that it is clear that any form of dissemination in which the material object does not change hands, for example, performances or displays on television, is not a publication no matter how many people are exposed to the work. However, when copies or phonorecords are offered for sale or lease to a group of wholesalers, broadcasters, or motion picture theaters, publication does take place if the? display. Publication is an important concept in the copyright law for several reasons: -- When a work is published, it may bear a notice of copyright to identify the year of publication and the name of the copyright owner and to inform the public that the work is protected by copyright. Works published before March 1, 1989, must bear the notice or risk loss of copyright protection. (See discussion "notice of copyright" below.) -- Works that are published in the United States are subject to mandatory deposit with the Library of Congress. (See discussion on "mandatory deposit," below.) -- Publication of a work can affect the limitations on the exclusive rights of the copyright owner that are set forth in sections 107 through 120 of the law. -- The year of publication may determine the duration of copyright protection for anonymous and pseudonymous works (when the author's identity is not revealed in the records of the Copyright Office) and for works made for hire. -- Deposit requirements for registration of published works differ from those for registration of unpublished works. (See discussion on "registration procedures," below.) NOTICE OF COPYRIGHT For works first published on and after March 1, 1989, use of the copyright notice is optional, though highly recommended. Before March 1, 1989, the use of the notice was mandatory on all published works, and any work first published before that date must bear a notice or risk loss of copyright protection. (The Copyright Office does not take a position on whether works first published with notice before March 1, 1989, and reprinted and distributed on and after March 1, 1989, must bear the copyright notice.) Use of the notice is recommended because it informs the public that the work is protected by copyright, identifies the copyright owner, and shows the year of first publication. Furthermore, in the event that a work is infringed, if the work carries a proper notice, the court will not allow a defendant to claim "innocent infringement" --that is, that he or she did not realize that the work is protected. (A successful innocent infringement claim may result in a reduction in damages that the copyright owner would otherwise receive.) The use of the copyright notice is the responsibility of the copyright owner and does not require advance permission from, or registration with, the Copyright Office. Form of Notice for Visually Perceptible Copies The notice for visually perceptible copies should contain all of the following three elements: 1. The copyright symbol (the letter "C" in a circle), or the? 2. The year of first publication of the work. In the case of compilations or derivative works incorporating previously published material, the year date of first publication of the compilation or derivative work is sufficient. The year date may be omitted where a pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work, with accompanying textual matter, if any, is reproduced in or on greeting cards, postcards, stationery, jewelry, dolls, toys, or any useful article; and 3. The name of the owner of copyright in the work, or an abbreviation by which the name can be recognized, or a generally known alternative designation of the owner. The "C in a circle" notice is used only on "visually perceptible copies." Certain kinds of works_for example, musical, dramatic, and literary works_may be fixed not in "copies" but by means of sound in an audio recording. Since audio recordings such as audio tapes and phonograph disks are "phonorecords" and not "copies," the "C in a circle" notice is not used to indicate protection of the underlying musical, dramatic, or literary work that is recorded. Form of Notice for Phonorecords of Sound Recordings The copyright notice for phonorecords of sound recordings* has somewhat different requirements. The notice appearing on phonorecords should contain the following three elements: *Sound recordings are defined as "works that result from the fixation of a series of musical, spoken, or other sounds, but not including the sounds accompanying a motion picture or other audiovisual work, regardless of the nature of the material objects, such as disks, tapes, or other phonorecords, in which they are embodied." 1. The sound recording copyright symbol (the letter "P" in a circle); and 2. The year of first publication of the sound recording; and 3. The name of the owner of copyright in the sound recording, or an abbreviation by which the name can be recognized, or a generally known alternative designation of the owner. If the producer of the sound recording is named on the phonorecord labels or containers, and if no other name appears in conjunction with the notice, the producer's name shall be considered a part of the notice. NOTE: Since questions may arise from the use of variant forms of the notice, any form of the notice other than those given here should not be used without first seeking legal advice. Position of Notice The notice should be affixed to copies or phonorecords of the work in such a manner and location as to "give reasonable notice of the claim of copyright." The notice on phonorecords may appear on the surface of the phonorecord or on the phonorecord label or container, provided the manner of placement and location give reasonable notice of the claim. The three elements of the notice? The Copyright Office has issued regulations concerning the form and position of the copyright notice in the Code of Federal Regulations (37 CFR Part 201). For more information, request Circular 3. Publications Incorporating United States Government Works Works by the U.S. Government are not eligible for copyright protection. For works published on and after March 1, 1989, the previous notice requirement for works consisting primarily of one or more U.S. Government works has been eliminated. However, use of the copyright notice for these works is still strongly recommended. Use of a notice on such a work will defeat a claim of innocent infringement as previously described provided the notice also includes a statement that identifies one of the following: those portions of the work in which copyright is claimed or those portions that constitute U.S. Government material. An example is: ? ? Works published before March 1, 1989, that consist primarily of one or more works of the U.S. Government must bear a notice and the identifying statement. Unpublished Works To avoid an inadvertent publication without notice, the author or other owner of copyright may wish to place a copyright notice on any copies or phonorecords that leave his or her control. An appropriate notice for an unpublished work is: Unpublished work Copyright 1994 Jane Doe. Effect of Omission of the Notice or of Error in the Name or Date The Copyright Act, in sections 405 and 406, provides procedures for correcting errors and omissions of the copyright notice on works published on or after January 1, 1978, and before March 1, 1989. In general, if a notice was omitted or an error was made on copies distributed on or after January 1, 1978, and before March 1, 1989, the copyright was not automatically lost. Copyright protection may be maintained if registration for the work has been made before or is made within 5 years after the publication without notice, and a reasonable effort is made to add the notice to all copies or phonorecords that are distributed to the public in the United States after the omission has been discovered. For more information request Circular 3. HOW LONG COPYRIGHT PROTECTION ENDURES Works Originally Created On or After January 1, 1978 A work that is created (fixed in tangible form for the first time) on or after January 1, 1978, is automatically protected from the moment of its creation, and is ordinarily given a term enduring for the author's life, plus an additional 50 years after the author's death. In the case of "a joint work prepared by two or more authors who did not work for hire," the term lasts for 50 years after the last surviving author's death. For works made for hire, and for anonymous and pseudonymous works (unless the author's identity is revealed in Copyright Office records), the duration of copyright will be 75 years from publication or 100 years from? Works Originally Created Before January 1, 1978, But Not Published or Registered by That Date Works that were created but not published or registered for copyright before January 1, 1978, have been automatically brought under the statute and are now given Federal copyright protection. The duration of copyright in these works will generally be computed in the same way as for works created on or after January 1, 1978: the life-plus-50 or 75/100-year terms will apply to them as well. The law provides that in no case will the term of copyright for works in this category expire before December 31, 2002, and for works published on or before December 31, 2002, the term of copyright will not expire before December 31, 2027. Works Originally Created and Published or Registered Before January 1, 1978 Under the law in effect before 1978, copyright was secured either on the date a work was published or on the date of registration if the work was registered in unpublished form. In either case, the copyright endured for a first term of 28 years from the date it was secured. During the last (28th) year of the first term, the copyright was eligible for renewal. The current copyright law has extended the renewal term from 28 to 47 years for copyrights that were subsisting on January 1, 1978, making these works eligible for a total term of protection of 75 years. Public Law 102-307, enacted on June 26, 1992, amended the Copyright Act of 1976 to extend automatically the term of copyrights secured from January 1, 1964, through December 31, 1977 to the further term of 47 years and increased the filing fee from $12 to $20. This fee increase applies to all renewal applications filed on or after June 29, 1992. P.L. 102-307 makes renewal registration optional. There is no need to make the renewal filing in order to extend the original 28-year copyright term to the full 75 years. However, some benefits accrue to making a renewal registration during the 28th year of the original term. For more detailed information on the copyright term, write to the Copyright Office and request Circulars 15, 15a, and 15t. For information on how to search the Copyright Office records concerning the copyright status of a work, request Circular 22. TRANSFER OF COPYRIGHT Any or all of the exclusive rights, or any subdivision of those rights, of the copyright owner may be transferred, but the transfer of exclusive rights is not valid unless that transfer is in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed (or such owner's duly authorized agent). Transfer of a right on a nonexclusive basis does not require a written agreement. A copyright may also be conveyed by operation of law and may be bequeathed by will or pass as personal property by the applicable laws of intestate succession. Copyright is a personal property right, and it is subject to the various state laws and regulations that govern the ownership, inheritance, or transfer of personal property as well as terms of contracts or conduct of business. For information about relevant? Transfers of copyright are normally made by contract. The Copyright Office does not have or supply any forms for such transfers. However, the law does provide for the recordation in the Copyright Office of transfers of copyright ownership. Although recordation is not required to make a valid transfer between the parties, it does provide certain legal advantages and may be required to validate the transfer as against third parties. For information on recordation of transfers and other documents related to copyright, request Circular 12. Termination of Transfers Under the previous law, the copyright in a work reverted to the author, if living, or if the author was not living, to other specified beneficiaries, provided a renewal claim was registered in the 28th year of the original term. [The copyright in works eligible for renewal on or after June 26, 1992, will vest in the name of the renewal claimant on the effective date of any renewal registration made during the 28th year of the original term. Otherwise, the renewal copyright will vest in the party entitled to claim renewal as of December 31st of the 28th year.] The present law drops the renewal feature except for works already in the first term of statutory protection when the present law took effect. Instead, the present law permits termination of a grant of rights after 35 years under certain conditions by serving written notice on the transferee within specified time limits. For works already under statutory copyright protection before 1978, the present law provides a similar right of termination covering the newly added years that extended the former maximum term of the copyright from 56 to 75 years. For further information, request Circulars 15a and 15t. INTERNATIONAL COPYRIGHT PROTECTION There is no such thing as an "international copyright" that will automatically protect an author's writings throughout the entire world. Protection against unauthorized use in a particular country depends, basically, on the national laws of that country. However, most countries do offer protection to foreign works under certain conditions, and these conditions have been greatly simplified by international copyright treaties and conventions. For a list of countries which maintain copyright relations with the United States, request Circular 38a. The United States belongs to both global, multilateral copyright treaties_the Universal Copyright Convention (UCC) and the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works. The United States was a founding member of the UCC, which came into force on September 16, 1955. Generally, a work by a national or domiciliary of a country that is a member of the UCC or a work first published in a UCC country may claim protection under the UCC. If the work bears the notice of copyright in the form and position specified by the UCC, this notice will satisfy and substitute for any other formalities a UCC member country would otherwise impose as a condition of copyright. A UCC notice should consist of the symbol accompanied by the name of the copyright proprietor and the year of first publication of the work. By joining the Berne Convention on March 1, 1989, the United States gained protection for its authors in all member nations of the? copyright relations or had bilateral treaty arrangements. Members of the Berne Union agree to a certain minimum level of copyright protection and agree to treat nationals of other member countries like their own nationals for purposes of copyright. A work first published in the United States or another Berne Union country (or first published in a non-Berne country, followed by publication within 30 days in a Berne Union country) is eligible for protection in all Berne member countries. There are no special requirements. For information on the legislation implementing the Berne Convention, request Circular 93 from the Copyright Office. An author who wishes protection for his or her work in a particular country should first find out the extent of protection of foreign works in that country. If possible, this should be done before the work is published anywhere, since protection may often depend on the facts existing at the time of first publication. If the country in which protection is sought is a party to one of the international copyright conventions, the work may generally be protected by complying with the conditions of the convention. Even if the work cannot be brought under an international convention, protection under the specific provisions of the country's national laws may still be possible. Some countries, however, offer little or no copyright protection for foreign works. COPYRIGHT REGISTRATION In general, copyright registration is a legal formality intended to make a public record of the basic facts of a particular copyright. However, except in one specific situation,* registration is not a condition of copyright protection. [*Under sections 405 and 406 of the Copyright Act, copyright registration may be required to preserve a copyright on a work first published before March 1, 1989, that would otherwise be invalidated because the copyright notice was omitted from the published copies or phonorecords, or the name or year was omitted, or certain errors were made in the year date.] Even though registration is not generally a requirement for protection, the copyright law provides several inducements or advantages to encourage copyright owners to make registration. Among these advantages are the following: -- Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim; -- Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U.S. origin and for foreign works not originating in a Berne Union country. (For more information on when a work is of U.S. origin, request Circular 93.); -- If made before or within 5 years of publication, registration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate; and -- If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.? record the registration with the U.S. Customs Service for protection against the importation of infringing copies. For additional information, request Publication No. 563 from: ? ? ? ? ? ? Registration may be made at any time within the life of the copyright. 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Copyright information, including many of the other circulars mentioned in Circular 1, as well as the latest Copyright Office regulations and announcements, is available via the Internet. Internet site addresses are: World Wide Web URL: http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright Gopher: marvel.loc.gov Telnet: marvel.loc.gov and login as marvel Copyright Office records of registrations and other related documents from 1978 forward are also available over the Internet via the above addresses or telnet directly to LOCIS (Library of Congress Information System) at: Telnet: Locis.loc.gov The Copyright Public Information Office is also open to the public Monday-Friday, 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Eastern Time, except Federal holidays. The office is located in the Library of Congress, Madison Building, Room 401, at 101 Independence Ave., S.E., Washington, D.C., near the Capitol South Metro stop. Information Specialists are available to answer questions, provide circulars, and accept applications for registration. Access for disabled individuals is at the front door on Independence Avenue, S.E. The Copyright Office is not permitted to give legal advice. If you need information or guidance on matters such as disputes over the ownership of a copyright, suits against possible infringers, the procedure for getting a work published, or the method of obtaining royalty payments, it may be necessary to consult an attorney. ***Last update 9/95 (er)*** From gat4 at columbia.edu Thu Oct 24 15:38:18 1996 From: gat4 at columbia.edu (Gary Tubb) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 11:38:18 -0400 Subject: Shiva Sahasranama Message-ID: <161227026553.23782.7011175784952438451.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > I am interested in authoritative commentaries on the Shiva Sahasranama > >From the Mahabharata. I have heard of one by Niilaka.n.tha. What > is the time frame of this bhaasyam? Are any books available with the > original text? Are there other bhaasyam-s on this subject? > The text of Nilakantha's commentary is included in a new book by Professor RK Sharma entitled _Sivasahasranamastakam (Eight Collections of Hymns Containing One Thousand and Eight Names of Siva)_. Of the seven other Sivasahasranama texts presented in the book there is one other one (from the Lingamahapurana) with a Sanskrit commentary. The book is being published by Nag Publishers in Delhi, and also includes a very useful glossary of all the names from the texts with English translation ("Sivasahasranamakosa"), as well as appendices giving passages from the Vedic samhitas. From jkcowart at io-online.com Thu Oct 24 19:56:15 1996 From: jkcowart at io-online.com (J. Kingston Cowart) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 12:56:15 -0700 Subject: Query: Can this be true? Message-ID: <161227026561.23782.17354389189797356761.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have been given the following information (but have serious doubts): 1) That both jivata (life) and jivitam (alive)--which are morphologically almost identical--originally functioned as a past participle of the verb "to live"; 2) That it is therefore possible to regard the Sanskrit for "I live in Dehli" and "I lived in Dehli" as in some sense the same--at least poetically if not strictly linguistically. (It is this about which I have my doubts.) While the first assertion is evidently correct, the second appears to entail quite an interpretive stretch even in the imagic/poetic context. Can anyone tell me if such an interpretation might indeed be the case nonetheless; and if so, how so; and if not, why not? Thank you, J. Kingston Cowart San Diego, California jkcowart at io-online.com From mcdermot at wehle.canisius.edu Thu Oct 24 17:26:00 1996 From: mcdermot at wehle.canisius.edu (James McDermott) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 13:26:00 -0400 Subject: Nikalsaini Message-ID: <161227026559.23782.2745658628628824924.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In the ERE, W. Crooke speaks of a Nikalsaini or Narangkaria sect which sprang up in the Punjab after the battle of Gujarat in 1849. He goes on to speak of the way in which this group attached itself to the name of John Nicholson, and concludes with a comment to the effect that it "is doubtful whether there was actually a cult of Nichol- son" and an indication that "the sect does not appear in recent returns." Can anyone suggest a source of further information on this group and provide support of Crooke's suspicions or evidence for the (on-going) existence of the Nikalsaini? Thanks for your help. Jim McDermott Dept. of Religious Studies Canisius College Buffalo, NY From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk Thu Oct 24 16:58:28 1996 From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 17:58:28 +0100 Subject: [Release of First Hindi Thesaurus. (fwd)] Message-ID: <161227026556.23782.15550520288006587909.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ------- Start of forwarded message ------- - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 21:33:01 +0500 (GMT+0500) From: "Dr. Kumar" Subject: Release of First Hindi Thesaurus. Hello, I could not write to you earlier as I was in Delhi for quite some time, in connection with the publication of my thesaurus. It has been co-authored by me and my wife Kusum. It has been named Samaantar Kosh. It is being published by: The National Book Trust India, A-5, Green Park, New Delhi 110 019 The book is in the press right now. It is expected to be out any time mid-December this year. It contains 1768 pages of text and index, in two volumes. The Trust believes in making books easuly affordable to the public. That is why it has priced it at only Rs. 400.00. Like all Indian languages, Hindi offers many more synonyms than the European languages. This made the work of compiling Samaantar Kosh a huge task and increased the size of the book. A task much more complex as compared to Roget's English thesaurus. To give you an idea of the problem. The first edition offers 1,60,800 expressions, under 1,100 headings subdivided into 23,759 subheadings. These have been chosen out of about 5,40,000 expressions collected and classified by Kusum and me over the past twenty years (April 76 to September 96). The first edition gives 36 synonyms for 'akash' (sky) 51 synonyms for 'raat' (night) 30 synonyms for 'shobha' (elegance) 60 synonyms for 'ichchha' (desire or wish) 71 synonyms for 'prempatra' (male object of love) 57 synonyms for 'prempatraa' (female ohject of love) 540 synonyms for 'Shiva' (The full data gives 2,317 words for Shiva!) I hope to be quite active now on the internet and be prompt in responding to you. All the best Arvind Kumar - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ARVIND KUMAR Former Editor, Madhuri (Times of India), Sarvottam (Reader's Digest). BG1/1, Builders Apartments, 151/1, Airport Road, Bangalore 560 017 Tel: +91-80-5273856 Email: Arvind Kumar - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- End of forwarded message ------- From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Sat Oct 26 15:41:01 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 96 15:41:01 +0000 Subject: Postal Strike in India Message-ID: <161227026563.23782.11550765077905125454.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Xth WORLD SANSKRIT CONFERENCE - 1997 (Silver Jubilee Year) Taralabalu Kendra, Bangalore [ INDIA ] (3-9 January 1997) ___________________________________________________________________ Dear Participants, The Post and Telegraph Department employees in India are on strike. The telephone and fax lines may go out of order at any time. Please bear with us for any delay in responding to your letters/fax/emails during the strike period which hopefully would end soon. Cordially yours, Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji Hon. President _____________________________________________________ Secretariat Xth World Sanskrit Conference TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032 Karnataka [ India ] Tel: +91-80-3430017 +91-80-3332759 Fax: +91-80-3334541 E-mail: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indnet-wscx.html http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wsc-full.html ======================================================= From thillaud at unice.fr Sun Oct 27 13:35:20 1996 From: thillaud at unice.fr (thillaud at unice.fr) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 96 14:35:20 +0100 Subject: beauty of Bhiima Message-ID: <161227026565.23782.2039730648735753734.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, Few time ago, as I was saying Bhiima is beautiful, some scholars objected: 'Bhiima is NOT beautiful'. But, using memory and Pr. Tokunaga's index, I've found this two passages (restored from the Poona's printed edition): When Hidimbaa falls in love with him (I, 139, 13-14): dRSTvaiva bhiimasenam saa zaalaskandhamivodgatam | raakSasii kaamayaamaasa ruupeNaapratimaM bhuvi || ayaM zyaamo mahaabaahuH siMhaskandho mahaadyutiH | kambugriivaH puSkaraakSo bhartaa yukto bhavenmama || When Viraata don't believe he's a cook (IV, 7, 6): na suudataaM maanada zraddadhaami te sahasranetrapratimo hi dRzyase | zriya ca ruupeNa ca vikrameNa ca prabhaasi taataanavaras nareSviha || It seems to me they refer clearly to a great corporal beauty. Wrong ? Do you know other passages (except in battle's furor) where he's not beautiful ? Or his ugliness an oral or pictural tradition ? On an other hand, I'm unable to find his hair's color (and Arjuna's). Do know it someone ? Best thanks, -------------------------------------------------------------- Dominique Thillaud - Universite de Nice - Sophia Antipolis email : thillaud at unice.fr From indobib at indoger.unizh.ch Mon Oct 28 08:45:13 1996 From: indobib at indoger.unizh.ch (Abt. f. Indologie) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 09:45:13 +0100 Subject: A Brhatkatha Problem Message-ID: <161227026567.23782.3262409847499932363.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, Is there anyone out on the net, who has access to the complete edition of the B.rhatkath-a/slokasa.mgraha by F. Lacote? I am reading part of this text with some students right now, but I have only the editions by Agrawala and Poddar at my disposal. In verse 15.81ab they pose the following problem: Agrawala: ya.m yam eva smaran bh-ava.m tyajaty ante ka.devaram | Poddar: ya.m yam eva smaran bh-ava.m tyajaty ante kalevaram | Because both editions claim to be based on Lacote, I would like to know, which reading Lacote adopts in his text for the last word? And if he does adopt ka.devaram, I would like to know, if he gives any comments on the meaning of this word in the footnotes (I know French, so you may just type down, what he writes). The word does not occur in any of the dictionaries I have checked so far, but it seems to have the advantage of the lectio difficilior... Any help in this matter would be most welcome. Andreas Bigger (indobib at indoger.unizh.ch or abigger at indoger.unizh.ch) From jonathan.silk at wmich.edu Mon Oct 28 15:29:26 1996 From: jonathan.silk at wmich.edu (jonathan.silk at wmich.edu) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 10:29:26 -0500 Subject: A Brhatkatha Problem Message-ID: <161227026573.23782.1378710641795052712.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am almost entirely ignorant of IE and associated problems, but is it possible to explain briefly why a connection between kaDevara and lat. cadaaver is correctly ignored by Mayrhoffer? J Silk From thillaud at unice.fr Mon Oct 28 10:47:39 1996 From: thillaud at unice.fr (thillaud at unice.fr) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 11:47:39 +0100 Subject: A Brhatkatha Problem Message-ID: <161227026569.23782.11815060871485367819.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Dear colleagues, >Is there anyone out on the net, who has access to the complete edition of >the B.rhatkath-a/slokasa.mgraha by F. Lacote? I am reading part of this >text with some students right now, but I have only the editions by >Agrawala and Poddar at my disposal. In verse 15.81ab they pose the >following problem: >Agrawala: >ya.m yam eva smaran bh-ava.m tyajaty ante ka.devaram | >Poddar: >ya.m yam eva smaran bh-ava.m tyajaty ante kalevaram | > >Because both editions claim to be based on Lacote, I would like to know, >which reading Lacote adopts in his text for the last word? And if he does >adopt ka.devaram, I would like to know, if he gives any comments on the >meaning of this word in the footnotes (I know French, so you may just >type down, what he writes). The word does not occur in any of >the dictionaries I have checked so far, but it seems to have the advantage >of the lectio difficilior... >Any help in this matter would be most welcome. > >Andreas Bigger (indobib at indoger.unizh.ch or abigger at indoger.unizh.ch) Je ne dispose pas de la re'fe'rence que vous souhaitez, mais voici les extraits du KEWA ou` Mayrhofer conside`re qu'il ne s'agit la` que de variantes phone'tiques: kadDepara-, kaDebara-, kaDevara-, s. kalevaraH. kalevaraH m., -am n. Leib, Koerper / body, auch kaDebara-, buddh. kaDevara-, kaDepara-, paali kaLebara-, kalebara, kalevara, praakrit kalera- (vgl. Lueders, Wackernagel-Festschrift 296 = Phil. Ind. 549; Charpentier, Ind. Ling. 2, 49ff.; Kuiper 68); vermutlich ein austroasiatisches Wort, vgl. ka-Debara- : Dimba- 'Koerper' (Praefix ka-, aehnlich praakrit kaa-limba- 'Koerper'): Kuiper, a.a.O. L'he'sitation entre 'l' et 'D' est tellement ordinaire que je ne crois pas qu'il faille chercher plus loin. Vous remarquerez aussi qu'il ignore comple`tement (et justement!) le rapprochement avec lat. cadaaver indique' dans le MMW. Amicalement, -------------------------------------------------------------- Dominique Thillaud - Universite de Nice - Sophia Antipolis email : thillaud at unice.fr From g.v.simson at easteur-orient.uio.no Mon Oct 28 15:22:41 1996 From: g.v.simson at easteur-orient.uio.no (g.v.simson at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 16:22:41 +0100 Subject: A Brhatkatha Problem Message-ID: <161227026571.23782.8082911820679092720.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Regarding A. Bigger's question concerning kalevaram/ka.devaram in B.rhatkathaa-Sloka-Sa.mgraha 15.81: Lacote has ka.devaram ("corps"); with varia lectio: ka.demvara.m, B; and footnote "ka.devaram=kalevaram". Otherwise see Dominique Thillaud's answer. Best regards, Georg v. Simson Professor Georg von Simson University of Oslo Department of East European and Oriental Studies Box 1030, Blindern 0315 Oslo, Norway From pwyzlic at pwyz.rhein.de Mon Oct 28 19:07:42 1996 From: pwyzlic at pwyz.rhein.de (pwyzlic) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 20:07:42 +0100 Subject: A Brhatkatha Problem Message-ID: <161227026576.23782.485049579839073632.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Mon, 28 Oct 1996, Andreas Bigger wrote: > In verse 15.81ab they pose the > following problem: > Agrawala: > ya.m yam eva smaran bh-ava.m tyajaty ante ka.devaram | > Poddar: > ya.m yam eva smaran bh-ava.m tyajaty ante kalevaram | Lacote has: "... bh-ava.m tyajaty ante ka.devaram". He notes the varia lectio "ka.demvara.m" and gives the following short note: "ka.devaram = kalevaram". \bye Peter Wyzlic -- ########################################################################### Peter Wyzlic pwyzlic at pwyz.rhein.de ########################################################################### From indobib at indoger.unizh.ch Tue Oct 29 08:20:58 1996 From: indobib at indoger.unizh.ch (Abt. f. Indologie) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 09:20:58 +0100 Subject: Brhatkatha (Thanks!) Message-ID: <161227026578.23782.10462671397140902170.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks to all, who helped me to solve the Brhatkatha problem. I am completely answered! Thank you very much Andreas Bigger, Zuerich From mm383 at columbia.edu Tue Oct 29 16:54:21 1996 From: mm383 at columbia.edu (Mary McGee) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 11:54:21 -0500 Subject: Hinduism on the world wide web Message-ID: <161227026585.23782.5367296633431633124.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Jack Hawley and I have a student who is doing her senior thesis on Hinduism on the world wide web. She is particularly interested in web sites that use images and which may be used for darshan or worship. If you have any suggestions for her -- her name is Michelle Caswell, you can e-mail her directly at mlc23 at columbia.edu or send your suggestions to me and I will forward them to her. Thanks for your help. mary mcgee From falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de Tue Oct 29 14:48:43 1996 From: falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de (falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 15:48:43 +0100 Subject: Fax number? Message-ID: <161227026581.23782.875999913557281550.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> asdfkjhpoiuqwer> > Nalini Balbir [Fax: (33) (1) 46 26 38 24 ] > > From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Wed Oct 30 09:42:34 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 09:42:34 +0000 Subject: Hinduism on the world wide web Message-ID: <161227026587.23782.3664243658787087417.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Mary, Always lovely to see your name in my email in-tray. Gary mentioned recently that things have been particularly hectic a few weeks ago; everything okay? About the student: there is, of course, quite a bit of material in the INDOLOGY archives. Every message that passes through the INDOLOGY list is archived at the "mother site" in Liverpool, and is key-word searchable. One can get at this through the INDOLOGY web page. From time to time INDOLOGY has carried images -- and still has images of the Isa upanishad and Yogasutras in manuscript -- and the responses of readers to these could be looked up. I also received a certain amount of private email from appreciative viewers, and perhaps I could dig that out somehow. Finally, she should send a message to INDOLOGY asking for people's input on this topic directly. Best wishes, Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE, England FAX: 44 171 611 8545 From dlusthau at mailer.fsu.edu Wed Oct 30 18:22:53 1996 From: dlusthau at mailer.fsu.edu (dlusthau at mailer.fsu.edu) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 13:22:53 -0500 Subject: Re to J Silk: kaDevara & cadaaver Message-ID: <161227026597.23782.2695800927380304090.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > 2) in kaDevara, hesitations in spelling betray a non-IE origin, >kaDa/kala 'dumb' is very far from 'body, corpse' Maybe not. In Hebrew "body" is guf, which eventually entered English as "goof", implying, I guess, someone who is present physically but not mentally... a dummy who makes mistakes. Grammars give the appearance of neat logic, but interlinguistic transmissions are more chancey and happenstancish. Dan Lusthaus Department of Religion Florida State University Tallahassee, FL 32306-1029 Ph: (904)644-0210 Email: dlusthau at mailer.fsu.edu Fax: (904)644-7225 From athr at loc.gov Wed Oct 30 18:41:49 1996 From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 13:41:49 -0500 Subject: Re to J Silk: kaDevara & cadaaver Message-ID: <161227026599.23782.7208567555833329358.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Dominique Thillaud wrote: > >I am almost entirely ignorant of IE and associated problems, but is it > >possible to explain briefly why a connection between kaDevara and lat. > >cadaaver is correctly ignored by Mayrhoffer? > > > >J Silk > > Briefly: A link between this two words is not strictly impossible, but: > we can't prove it by known phonetical laws nor our knowledge of their languages: > > 1) both words are long but don't split in their own languages, none > of them looks clearly as compound or derived in an IE way: > 2) in kaDevara, hesitations in spelling betray a non-IE origin, > kaDa/kala 'dumb' is very far from 'body, corpse' and what would be i(i)vara > ? > 3) cadaaver is perhaps related with cadoo 'fall' but this latter > corresponds probably to skr. zad- and, anyway, the final is obscure (and if > a perfect participe -wes we expect skr. -vas) > 4) in a diphthong the 'i' in kaDevara (and other forms) can't be a > laryngal, just a poor 'i': why vanished in cadaaver ? > 5) we don't know equivalent word in a third IE language. > > The only possibilities I can see are: both belong to a badly known > part of IE (popular, womanly, funeral, ?), are reinterpretations by false > etymologies of a unknow isolated IE word or are borrowed from an other > unknown language. But nothing of that is a better proof than: they come > from the venusian teachers in their flying saucers and that's an > irrefutable proof of their existence! > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Dominique Thillaud - Universite de Nice - Sophia Antipolis > email : thillaud at unice.fr > > > > From jonathan.silk at wmich.edu Wed Oct 30 20:20:05 1996 From: jonathan.silk at wmich.edu (jonathan.silk at wmich.edu) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 15:20:05 -0500 Subject: Re to J Silk: kaDevara & cadaaver Message-ID: <161227026601.23782.9048164571476545556.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks to Dominique Thillaud and, privately, Boris Oguibenine, for clarifying my IE ignorance (not limited, I am afraid, to comparative etymology!). J Silk From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Wed Oct 30 16:26:52 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 16:26:52 +0000 Subject: INDOLOGY admin Message-ID: <161227026591.23782.8660624073558210761.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In case you haven't checked recently, INDOLOGY currently has 544 members. The counters on the INDOLOGY web pages have apparently been reset by the web server. It's a pity; now they show only a few hundred hits, whereas we were up to about 9000 on the main page. In any case, the daily hit rate is ca. 40 (and I promise it's not all me!). If you have not looked at the INDOLOGY web pages recently, there have been some significant additions, including an online Sanskrit dictionary with web interface! I do add and change the web pages in bursts every now and then, but I don't always remember to announce the changes. Best wishes, Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE, England FAX: 44 171 611 8545 From thillaud at unice.fr Wed Oct 30 16:31:06 1996 From: thillaud at unice.fr (thillaud at unice.fr) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 17:31:06 +0100 Subject: Re to J Silk: kaDevara & cadaaver Message-ID: <161227026594.23782.3066632673133129450.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >I am almost entirely ignorant of IE and associated problems, but is it >possible to explain briefly why a connection between kaDevara and lat. >cadaaver is correctly ignored by Mayrhoffer? > >J Silk Briefly: A link between this two words is not strictly impossible, but: we can't prove it by known phonetical laws nor our knowledge of their languages: 1) both words are long but don't split in their own languages, none of them looks clearly as compound or derived in an IE way: 2) in kaDevara, hesitations in spelling betray a non-IE origin, kaDa/kala 'dumb' is very far from 'body, corpse' and what would be i(i)vara ? 3) cadaaver is perhaps related with cadoo 'fall' but this latter corresponds probably to skr. zad- and, anyway, the final is obscure (and if a perfect participe -wes we expect skr. -vas) 4) in a diphthong the 'i' in kaDevara (and other forms) can't be a laryngal, just a poor 'i': why vanished in cadaaver ? 5) we don't know equivalent word in a third IE language. The only possibilities I can see are: both belong to a badly known part of IE (popular, womanly, funeral, ?), are reinterpretations by false etymologies of a unknow isolated IE word or are borrowed from an other unknown language. But nothing of that is a better proof than: they come from the venusian teachers in their flying saucers and that's an irrefutable proof of their existence! -------------------------------------------------------------- Dominique Thillaud - Universite de Nice - Sophia Antipolis email : thillaud at unice.fr From thompson at jlc.net Thu Oct 31 13:11:05 1996 From: thompson at jlc.net (thompson at jlc.net) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 09:11:05 -0400 Subject: Michigan-Lausanne conf. Message-ID: <161227026605.23782.15621410137223040387.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, On another e-mail list there has been an extensive discussion of the Aryan migration thesis, as opposed to the Indigenous Aryan thesis, a controversy with which you are all perhaps all too familiar. I do not want to raise that issue on this list [yet again?]. Rather, I am hoping that someone on this list has attended the recent Michigan-Lausanne conference on this very topic, and would be willing to offer comments, observations, summaries, of what went on there. I feel strongly that any sound discussion of this issue would require the input of the scholars present at that conference. Thank you in advance, George Thompson From pdb1 at columbia.edu Thu Oct 31 14:26:26 1996 From: pdb1 at columbia.edu (Peter D Banos) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 09:26:26 -0500 Subject: Vikram Seth - some more problems Message-ID: <161227026607.23782.3642126697845021471.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Jan Dvorak wrote: > Is anyone able to help me with the following words found in Vikram Seth's A > Suitable Boy?... > Ruksh - this should be a name of some war-horse, the sentence sound like > 'he is not a war-horse like Ruksh or Bucephalus' (this is not > a citation), where Bucephalus is the name of the horse of Alexander > the Great. This sounds like the name of the horse of one of the heroes of the Shahnameh - Rustam I think? -Peter D. Banos pdb1 at columbia.edu "Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia... in our own languages we hear them speaking about God's deeds of power." From Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz Thu Oct 31 08:51:35 1996 From: Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz (Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 09:51:35 +0100 Subject: Vikram Seth - some more problems Message-ID: <161227026603.23782.5182460801309200837.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Is anyone able to help me with the following words found in Vikram Seth's A Suitable Boy? (Sorry, I don't have the English text with me today, therefore I can give neither the full quotations nor the page numbers, but tommorrow I can add these too, if needed) Ruksh - this should be a name of some war-horse, the sentence sound like 'he is not a war-horse like Ruksh or Bucephalus' (this is not a citation), where Bucephalus is the name of the horse of Alexander the Great. kamini - this should be some bush or tree, probably sort of Jasmine ch?autha- in the context like: I will die two days after you, therefore I will not attend your chautha - apparently some ritual performed on the fourth day after a death - is this correct? Maloos - quoted in my last mail, got no answer (p. 431 - one of the last paragraphs of the chapter 7.23): Meenakshi answers to her mother-in-law: "Of course I can, Maloos dear, don't be so old-fashioned." I should mention that Meenakshi is Bengali. Any suggestions? Rat - In the beginning of a letter to her beloved Kabir, Lata writes: 'My sweet Rat, my sweetest sweetest Rat' or something like this, the capital R is correct. My Indian informant told me: "this must be the English 'rat'", but I hesitate. chanderi - Late wears 'green chanderi sari'. Is it cundri? (I mean the method of dying)? If you have any suggestions regarding the words quoted above, please let me know. Thank you, Jan Dvorak From carolyn-b-brown at uiowa.edu Thu Oct 31 16:17:10 1996 From: carolyn-b-brown at uiowa.edu (carolyn-b-brown at uiowa.edu) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 10:17:10 -0600 Subject: Vikram Seth - some more problems Message-ID: <161227026612.23782.5086325554597849421.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> One answer and three suggestions for Jan Dvorak: >kamini - this should be some bush or tree, probably sort of Jasmine kaminii (in Bengali) is a plant with sweet-smelling flowers; the word is also used for "woman" or "wife" (jasmine is cameli--pron. chameli) >ch?autha- in the context like: I will die two days after you, therefore I > will not attend your chautha - apparently some ritual performed on > the fourth day after a death - is this correct? Perhaps this is (also Bengali) ch?a (cuya with the "u" nasalized), which can mean smelling badly, like smoke in particular) + uTha, to rise or ascend. >Rat - In the beginning of a letter to her beloved Kabir, Lata writes: > 'My sweet Rat, my sweetest sweetest Rat' or something like this, > the capital R is correct. My Indian informant told me: "this must > be the English 'rat'", but I hesitate. rat is "night" in Bengali--might, then, be a term of endearment for a lover? > >chanderi - Late wears 'green chanderi sari'. Is it cundri? (I mean the > method of dying)? > If the term comes from Bengali, it would suggest either "moon," if the "ch" isn't aspirated, or "fashion," if it is. Carolyn Brown International Writing Program Univ. of Iowa From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Oct 31 19:02:28 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 14:02:28 -0500 Subject: Aryan-non-Aryan Conference Program Message-ID: <161227026614.23782.4558383055992754508.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indology Members, In response to recent queries about the Michigan-Lausanne International Seminar, I am posting the abstracts of papers presented at this seminar. Madhav Deshpande MICHIGAN-LAUSANNE INTERNATIONAL SEMINAR "ARYANS AND NON-ARYANS IN SOUTH ASIA : EVIDENCE, INTERPRETATION, AND IDEOLOGY" October 25-27, 1996 University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan Coordinated by: Johannes Bronkhorst (University of Lausanne) Madhav Deshpande (University of Michigan) Thomas Trautmann (University of Michigan) Titles and Abstracts of Papers (in alphabetical order) __________________________________________ HINDUISM AS AN INDO-EUROPEAN IDEOLOGY: CULTURAL COMPARATIVISM AND POLITICAL SENSITIVITIES Nicholas Allen (Oxford University, UK) The study of Sanskrit as one branch of the Indo-European language family is far better established than the study of the Hindu tradition as one branch of Indo-European culture, but the second undertaking, already envisaged by Sir William Jones, has remained an obvious intellectual challenge. Any contemporary response to the challenge must refer to the work of Dumezil, which the author has elsewhere tried to emend and elaborate (and thereby defend), by exploring the idea of a fourth function. But what political dimensions are there to such an undertaking? On the one hand questions can be raised about the presuppositions and motivations of Dumezil and of those who continue his work. On the other, one wonders how the results of the work will be perceived outside academia (if and when they make the transition). Two possibilities are discussed. Nationalist sentiment might be offended by any claim that what has previously been thought of as 'Indian' has its roots outside India before the immigration of the Aryans; and whereas right-wing parties might welcome evidence for the importance of the Sanskritic tradition, speakers of non-IE languages might feel that their contribution to the development of Hinduism was being slighted. What precautions, if any, should be taken by the comparativist? IS THERE AN INNER CONFLICT OF TRADITION? Johannes Bronkhorst (University of Lausanne) The question I wish to address in this paper is the following. Does the opposition which the early Indian tradition itself introduce by distinguishing Aryans from non-Aryans help us to understand later developments of Indian culture? Put more generally: Do we have to assume any kind of opposition in order to understand some of the later developments, whether or not the parties concerned referred to themselves as Aryans? I will limit the discussion of this question to a few examples, representing the views of some chosen scholars. LINGUISTIC SUBSTRATA AND THE INDO-ARYAN MIGRATION DEBATE Edwin Bryant (Columbia University, New York) There has been considerable and increasing controversy, of late, about the origins of the Indo-Aryan speakers. A significant body of scholarship has developed, in India, which can be termed the 'Indigenous Aryan' school, which claims that the Indo-Aryans were autochthonous to thesubcontinent and not invaders or immigrants as is generally held. This group, which consists predominantly of philologists, historians and archaeologists, draws particular attention to the impossibility of definitively identifying Aryan speakers with any intrusive element in the archaeological record. The external origin of the Aryans, however, was a theory predicated on linguistic evidence. Irrespective of the status of the archaeological debate surrounding the Aryan presence on the subcontinent, most detractors of the Indigenous Aryan school ultimately refer to the linguistic evidence as conclusive in this regard. The Indigenous Aryan school has not critiqued the linguistic dimension of this problem with the same gusto with which it has reconsidered the archaeological and philological evidence. This paper, which is based on a section of my dissertation examining the whole Aryan 'invasion' debate from the perspective of the Indigenous Aryan school, examines the most compelling feature of the linguistic evidence, namely, that of a non-Indo-Aryan linguistic substratum in Sanskrit texts. I will first outline the major strands of scholarship that have dealt with this area. In assessing them as a group, I will be forced to conclude that they are not internally consistent, since the opinions of the principal linguists in this area have differed quite considerably. This problematizes the value of this method as a significant determinant in the Indo-Aryan debate and raises the question as to whether the position being advanced by the Indigenous Aryan school survives this particular linguistic challenge intact. WHOSE GODDESS? KALI AS CULTURAL CHAMPION IN KERALA ORAL NARRATIVES Sarah Lee Caldwell (University of Michigan) Abstract: ??? WHAT TO DO WITH THE ANARYAS? DHARMIC DISCOURSES OF INCLUSION AND EXCLUSION Madhav M. Deshpande (University of Michigan) The discussion of the terms Arya and non-Arya is normally dominated on the one hand by the discussions in linguistics and archaeology, and, now more increasingly in the context of politics of knowledge as reflected in colonial and post-colonial histories of South Asia. However, there is a middle period which is dominated by the discourses of the Hindu Dharmashastras and epics on the one hand and the contesting traditions of Buddhism and Jainism, where these terms played an equally significant role. When we deal with the vast literature covered by these traditions, we certainly need to move away both from the archaeological and linguistic studies of South Asian prehistory, which was too remote and unknown to the classical authors in these traditions, and from the politics of knowledge as reflected in the colonial and post-colonial developments which have yet to come into being in a distant future. However, in the period we are concerned with, the religious traditions are indeed not without their own politics of knowledge, and indeed they have their own conceptions of linguistic, ethnic, moral and spiritual purity and superiority. In this paper, I shall study the use of these terms in these traditions in the context of the underlying politics between these traditions. CHINESE BUDDHIST UNDERSTANDINGS OF "ARYA" Luis O. Gomez (University of Michigan) In this paper I consider some Chinese translations and explanations of Buddhist uses of the term "a-rya." The sources are primarily sutras, commentaries and glossaries in which we find the Buddhist terms "a-rya=s'ra-vaka," "a-rya=satya," and "a-rya=as.th.a-nggika=ma-rga." I discuss the ways in which the Chinese translators on the one hand continued the task of "spiritualizing" and emptying the terms of their social connotations, and on the other, found new parallels between spiritual status and social prestige and power. THROUGH A GLASS DARKLY: MODERN COLONIALIST ATTITUDES VS. TEXTUAL AND GENERAL PREHISTORIC EVIDENCE ON "RACE" AND "CASTE" IN VEDIC INDO-ARYAN SOCIETY Hans Henrich Hock (University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign) Since at least the time of Zimmer (1879), the conflict between arya and dasa/dasyu portrayed in the earliest Vedic texts has tended to be interpreted tantamount to conflict between two racially distinct groups, whose differences are characterized especially in terms of white/light vs. black/dark skin color. (See for instance Macdonnell & Keith 1912: s.vv. d7asa and var na; Chatterji 1960: 7 (with the qualification that the Indo-Europeans were of 'unknown racial characteristic (though it is not unlikely that they were Nordic originally [!])') and 32; Elizarenkova 1995: 36; Gonda 1975: 129; Hale 1986: 147 (see also 154); Kuiper 1991: 17 (vs. ibid. 3-4); Kulke & Rothermund 1986: 35; Mansion 1931: 6; Rau 1957: 16; Parpola 1988: 104-106, 120-121, 125. This racial interpretation of the Vedic textual evidence overlaps, and in many cases closely agrees with, an interpretation of the conflict between arya and dasa as comparable that between the British and India in (early) modern times. The aryas are seen as conquering invaders who subjugate the indigenous popula tion (often identified as Dravidian) who, in turn, subvert the language of the conquerors in a way similar to the Indianization of English. It has further been assumed that the conflict between colonialist/imperialist aryas and the indigenous dasas is responsible for the Indian caste system, especially (but not exclusively) the establishment of the shudra caste as the social group appropriate for subjugated and unassimilated dasas. It is the purpose of this paper to question the "orthodox" position (or positions) just outlined, in terms both of a reexamination of textual evidence and linguistic evidence and of a reconsideration of the basic assumptions made about the arya/dasa contact specifically and the nature of such contacts in prehistoric contexts in general. As I show in Hock 1996, the textual evidence for interpreting words meaning 'dark, black' and 'light, white' as referring to skin color is quite uncertain. At least equally possible is an "ideolog ical" interpretation of the terms somewhat along the lines of the black hats of the 'good guys' and the white hats of the 'bad guys' in Western movies. In fact, such an interpretation provides a plausible explana tion of why a word originally meaning 'light' came to designate the world, loka, if we assume that it first meant the 'light world' of the aryas. Moreover, there is good reason for believing that such notions as "race", defined in terms of skin color, are an invention of (early) modern European colonial ism and imperialism (see e.g. Appiah 1987) and thus are inappropriate for the prehistoric arya/dasa contact. Hock 1996 presents similar arguments against identifying prehistoric conflicts between different ethnic groups with modern colonialist/indigenous conflicts: ' both "civilized" empires (such as the Roman one) and "barbarian" ones (such as that of the Huns) were truly multiethnic, multilin gual, and mul ticultural. War-time alliances might pit members of the same linguistic and ethnic group against each other (such as the Germanic allies of the Huns and of the Romans).' This view is supported by such evidence as the fact that the Rig-Vedic 'battle of the ten kings' arrays aryas and dasas on both sides of the fight. Further support that the contact situation was less one-sided than commonly assumed is found in the thesis of Hock MS that early Dravidian and Indo-Aryan, and to a lesser degree even Iranian, participated in convergent changes that presuppose a situation of stable bi- or multilingualism. Time permitting, I also adress the issue of caste. While specifics of the Indian caste system no doubt reflect an uneven relationship in terms of power (see especially the 'outer groups' of the Sunahsepa story in the Aitereya-Brahmana), the antecedents of the system can be traced to Indo-Iranian, even Indo-European origins. The Dumezilian tripartite "ideology" of the Indo-Europeans at best reflects the stratification of the "in-group"; there is ample evidence for at least two "out-groups" that play an im portant, even if socially marginal, role in society artisans (see the fourth caste of Avestan) and slaves/prisoners of war. What appears to be specifically Indian is the explicit consolidation of these two out-groups into the fourth, shudra, caste but it is not at all clear that this consolidation must be attributed to a special relationship between aryas and dasa, different from the relationship between, say, early Iranian "in-group" and "out-group" strata. SANSKRIT KIMPURUSA AND KINNARA: AN EARLY MIXTURE OF ARYAN AND DRAVIDIAN Asko Parpola (University of Helsinki) At the Fourth World Sanskrit Conference held in Weimar in 1979 I presented a paper on this very same theme, and a one-page abstract was published in the proceedings. A more extended outline of the argument was included in a paper that came out four years later with the title "The pre-Vedic Indian background of the Zrauta rituals" (pp. 41-75 in: Frits Staal ed., Agni: The Vedic ritual of the fire altar, vol. II, Berkeley: Asian Humanities Press, 1983). I am returning to this subject for three reasons. Firstly, the documentation of those earlier outlines is defective; secondly, my contentions have escaped the notice of scholars writing on kiMpuruSa / kinnara (cf. M. Mayrhofter, Etymologisches Woerterbuch des Altindoarischen I, Heidelberg 1992, p. 348; and A. Wayman's paper on kinnara read at the meeting of the AOS in 1994); and thirdly, some striking new material pertinent to this topic has come to light in the meantime. I have also continued my work on the prehistory of early Indian religions, which I find necessary for understanding the mixture of early Indo-Aryan and Dravidian, as represented by these words. The structure of the paper is as follows: 1. The meaning of kiMpuruSa and kinnara in classical Sanskrit, Prakrit and Neo-Indo-Aryan. 2. The meaning of kiMpuruSa in Vedic texts. 3. The ritual context of Vedic kiMpuruSa and its Proto-Aryan background. 4. Etymology of kiMpuruSa and kinnara: Proto-Dravidian *kinnaram and its occurrence in the Near East (Semitic *kinnAru) since the last quarter of the third millennium BC --- if accepted, this is by far the earliest attestation of any Dravidian word. 5. Hypotheses concerning the contexts of *kinnaram in the Harappan / Dravidian religion. DOES ARCHAEOLOGY HOLD THE ANSWERS? Shereen Ratnagar (Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi) This paper will investigate the ways in which archaeological data have been used to support interregional migration and the presence of Aryan speakers in Central Asia, Iran and northwestern India-Pakistan. What are the categories of evidence used, and how does this vary? What about the rest of material culture residues? Considering the nature of that entity we call 'culture' in archaeology, is the conceptual leap from artefact-distributions to migration-of-a-group-speaking-a-particular-language justified? ORIENTALISM AND CULTURAL CONTINUITY IN SOUTH ASIAN ARCHAEOLOGY Jim G. Shaffer (Case Western University, Cleveland) South Asian archaeology remains significantly influenced by interpretations proposed by prominent European scholars (e.g., Marshall and Wheeler) that developed this area's archaeological record into one of international importance during the first half of the twentieth century. However, seldom is it recognized that these scholarly interpretations significantly reflect eighteenth and nineteenth century European perceptions of history, language, ethnicity, and what is today referred to as orientalism. These interpretations continue to influence our understanding of South Asian cultural history including recent archaeological discoveries. This historical background will be critically examined here as well as how recent developments in the archaeological record argue for a fundamental restructuring of the region's cultural history prior to the Early Historic Period. REVISITING THE ARYA-SAMAJ MOVEMENT Pashaura Singh (University of Michigan, Ann Arbor) This paper will address the issue of how the ancient Vedic term "Arya" was employed successfully by a late nineteenth-century movement, the Arya-Samaj, and how it underwent a radical change in its meaning and application in a new historical context. Although the Arya-Samaj claimed to restore the pristine ancient glory of Vedic religion following the Orientalist perspective, it was in fact involved in the process of redefining Hinduism in the colonial context. In that process, the Arya-Samaj had to meet the challenges offered by the other competing religious organizations. We will try to assess the role of this movement in presenting a model of unified and monolithic Arya Dharam in contrast to the prevalent diversity of the Hindu tradition. We will also examine the role of the terms, Arya and Non-Arya, in the growth of the politics of religious nationalism in South Asia, particularly in India, as a result of the legacy of the Arya-Samaj movement. DRAVIDIAN PLACE NAMES IN MAHARASHTRA F. C. Southworth (University of Pennsylvania) In their book _The_Rise_of_Civilization_in_India_and_Pakistan_ (1982), the Allchins state that there is a substratum of Dravidian place names in Maharashtra. This statement, based probably on the ideas of H. D. Sankalia, has never been properly investigated. Fortunately there exist two lists of Maharashtrian village names which provide the data for such a study. My investigation of these names turned up a number of candidates for Dravidian origin among the suffixes of Marathi place names. Among these suffixes, the most promising is -vali/oli, both because of its high frequency and because its Dravidian origin is not questioned (< Drav. paLLi 'hamlet, camp, place to lie down' < paT- 'lie,fall'). A study of the spatial distribution of village names with the suffix -vali/oli shows 90% or more of them concentrated in the coastal region known as Konkan. In the remainder of the Marahi-speaking area, the greatest concentration is in the southern part of the Desh, i.e. in the districts of Kolhapur and Solapur. A number of other suffixes of probable Dravidian origin are also found in these areas, though they are of lower frequency of occurrence. Thus these suffixes of Dravidian origin are in a continuous distribution with the Dravidian paLLi, as well as with similar suffixes in the state of Gujarat (discussed in Sankalia's doctoral thesis, which is based on early inscriptions in Gujarat). Thus there can be little doubt that these areas were previously inhabited by speakers of some Dravidian language(s). The paper will also discuss reflexes of Dravidian paLLi in place names in Sindh and Pakistani Panjab, where the evidence is somewhat less clear. CONSTRUCTING THE RACIAL THEORY OF INDIAN CIVILIZATION Thomas R. Trautmann (University of Michigan) Accepting that knowledge and politics are mutually entailed, it by no means follows that the constructions of Orientalism have stable meanings or unitary politics attaching to them. The Aryan or Indo-European idea has at least three different readings belonging to different political contexts. (1) The exclusionary sense is the one associated with Nazism and other modern racial-hate doctrines, while (2) for the orientalists of British India the Aryan idea had always an inclusionary sense, as a sign of the kinship of Britons and Indians, related to Orientalist policy positions; and (3) for Indians, the Aryan idea tends to be equated with the celebration of Hinduism. This multiplicity of political tendencies is a capital fact, showing the historically contigent character of the conjecture. The Dravidian idea had its own politics, to do with the growing assertiveness of Madras vis-a-vis the Calcutta establishment, different again from political uses made of it in the twentieth century in South India and Sri Lanka. In the course of the nineteenth century, the growing tension between an emergent "race science" and the Sanskritists was compromised in the racial theory of Indian civilization, that is, the notion that Indian civilization was formed by conquest and the intermingling of white, Aryan, Sanskrit-speaking civilized invaders and dark savages native to India. The paper closes with a critique of this theory, which has proved remarkably durable and resistant to the appearance of new evidence against it. A NOTE ON AIRYAMAN AND FRIENDSHIP Gernot Windfuhr (University of Michigan) Some notes on the functional range of Airyaman in Iranian tradition, compared with Indian Aryaman, and a possible new etymology that fits the description. THE LINGUISTIC SITUATION IN NORTHERN INDIA DURING THE VEDIC PERIOD Michael Witzel (Harvard University) Our means for reconstructing the prehistory of India are limited: apart from the testimony of the Vedic texts and of archaeology, including the Indus inscriptions, there are only the materials provided by the languages that have been spoken in South Asia for the past four thousand years. However, the evidence of them that appears in the early texts needs to be re-investigated and re-evaluated, especially the loan words and names of persons, localities and rivers. In this paper attention is limited to the northern part of South Asia for which the evidence is earliest and most copious. A brief overview is presented of the languages known or discernable in the Vedic texts, with stress on their ancient geographical location, and can discern various dialects of Indo-Iranian: Old Indo-Aryan (Vedic and local dialects), some East Iranian dialects close to Young Avestan (Bactrian, Arachosian Kamboja) and a predecessor of Nuristani (Kafiri). Secondly, early forms of Dravidian and Munda as loans in the Rgveda. This is confronted with a study of the personal and place names found in the post-Rgvedic texts, again establishing traces of Dravidian, Munda, but also of Tibeto-Burmese. Further evidence for a wide-spread cultural network of exchange of goods, products, plants and domesticated animals can be established through the study of certain loan words, especiallly those designating wheat (from W. Asia), rice (from S.E. Asia), horse (from Central Asia). -- To this is added a brief discussion of the layering and the substrates of the various languages that were successively introduced into South Asia. This allows to posit mutual linguistic influence in Northern South Asia of Munda, Dravidian, Indo-Iranian, perhaps also Tibeto-Burmese, since at least the end of the Indus civilization, c. 1900 B.C.E. Even the hieratic Rgveda bears witness to acculturation and substrate influence in the form of loan words, calques or in its syntax. All of this indicates that the linguistic (and ethnic) situation in S. Asia was quite varied from early on and further, that S. Asia was not isolated from developments in other parts of Asia but took part in the transmission of new techniques and economies along with the words designating them. The study of much of these data has been fairly cursory so far. Especially (northern) place names are in need of (re-) evaluation. The progress made during the last few decades in Dravidian, Munda and Tibeto-Burmese linguistics should open the path for a close cooperation of specialists in these languages and in Indo-Iranian for the study of the prehistory and early history of S. Asia. From mkv1 at york.ac.uk Thu Oct 31 12:10:52 1996 From: mkv1 at york.ac.uk (Mahendra Verma) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 17:10:52 +0500 Subject: Michigan-Lausanne conf. Message-ID: <161227026610.23782.15746700038453740879.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists Could you send me the details of the recent Michigan-Lauanne conference ? Thanks. mahendra From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Oct 31 22:56:48 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 17:56:48 -0500 Subject: note on the abstracts Message-ID: <161227026616.23782.8455013301233947239.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, Here I wish to post a Note in relation to the abstracts of the papers presented at the recent Michigan-Lausanne International Seminar on the theme of "Aryan and Non-Aryan in South Asia: Evidence, Interpretation, and Ideology". The reservations included in my Note are necessary in order to make a proper use of these abstracts and avoid their misuse. All the best, Madhav Deshpande NOTE ON THE POSTED ABSTRACTS: The abstracts represent pre-seminar statements. The actual presentations at the seminar were indeed often more complex, extensive, and often significantly differed from the abstracts. Similarly, the presentations were followed by very intensive open discussions of individual papers and of general issues raised. The final papers, revised in view of the extensive discussions at the seminar, will appear in the 1998 volume of the Swiss journal Etudes Asiatiques/ Asiatische Studien. The abstracts should not be taken to represent the final views of any given author and should not be cited as statements of claims by any of the authors. Madhav Deshpande Organizer of the Michigan-Lausanne Seminar For any further questions in relation to the seminar, please contact me personally at mmdesh at umich.edu.