From RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU  Fri Mar  1 02:18:42 1996
From: RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU (RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 20:18:42 -0600
Subject: Khajuraho
Message-ID: <161227023115.23782.11049432338638490686.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

dear Jm ,
I do not know what you are? sexy ? Promiscuous ? Your question  is not clear. 
M.Rajagopalanm





From RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU  Fri Mar  1 02:23:50 1996
From: RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU (RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 20:23:50 -0600
Subject: Mahabharata reference
Message-ID: <161227023117.23782.2595852953590781236.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear John,
It is not compassion. That is wrong translation and misinterpretretation of mahabharata.
It is lack of compassion.        M.Rajagopalan





From RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU  Fri Mar  1 02:30:52 1996
From: RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU (RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 20:30:52 -0600
Subject: Khajuraho
Message-ID: <161227023119.23782.2622786560255171901.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Ali,
Why are you so tired of truth and knowledge? You wrote " why must we swing between the rather tiresome poles of humanism. MAN TRIUMPHANT .Why should man be subject of these sculptures" Anti=humanism seems to be a profitable avenue"
Khajuraho stands not for antihumanism but for noblest ideas of man . That is the truth
It is wrong to interpret otherse , for that is not what the
inscriptions there say.   M.Rajagopalanm





From RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU  Fri Mar  1 02:35:44 1996
From: RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU (RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 20:35:44 -0600
Subject: Khajuraho
Message-ID: <161227023120.23782.2887567867522297674.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear Bridgeman,
I thought that indology is for learning the truth of ancient Hindu cultutre etc.
So I had to say what Khajkuraho really stands for. I am not interested in any personal attacks on anybody.  M.Rajagopalabnm





From mrabe at artic.edu  Fri Mar  1 01:57:00 1996
From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 20:57:00 -0500
Subject: Mahabharata reference
Message-ID: <161227023122.23782.14708980925150495613.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

M.Rajagopalan claims: "The following verse is carved in Khajuraho:
VinayA shobhate vidyA
kulam shIlena shobhate
nItyaiva shobhate rAjyaM
pAnirdAnena shobhate."

Mr. Rajagopolan, are you able to cite a published reference to this
inscription? Please do share it if you can, in exchange for which I'll be
happy to supply you with a digitized image of bestiality from the
Khandariya Mahadeo.  Or possibly Dominik would be willing to post it on his
web page, with appropriate disclaimers, of course.

Thanks,

Michael Rabe
SXU
SAIC







From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Fri Mar  1 16:55:18 1996
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 08:55:18 -0800
Subject: Deshmukh verse
Message-ID: <161227023136.23782.11935752243673196463.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Earlier today <CVEDGC at Levels.UniSA.Edu.Au> quoted a verse attributed to
C.D. Deshmukh:

RuNakartA pitA Stru na tu mantri param tatha
RuNam duhkhAya putrNam raStrANam tu hitAya cha.

A proper transcription of the verse would be as follows:

RuNakartA pitA Satrur (otherwise the first quarter would be short by one
syllable). 
na tu mantrI para.m tathA /
RuNa.m du.hkhAya putrANA.m
rA.StrANa.m tu hitAya cha //

Or, in the transcription I prefer: 

.r.nakartaa pitaa ;satrur 
na tu mantrii para.m tathaa /
.r.na.m du.hkhaaya putraa.naam
raa.s.trasya tu hitaaya ca //

Deshmukh was good at versification and was very well prepared in Sanskrit
grammar and literature. However, he was not a remarkable poet. One of his
better verses, written about the Buddha, may interest the members of this
list (especially the ones who wish to learn the aorist or the third past
tense):

svaya.m prabuddho jagatiim abuubudhat
svaya.m prakaa;so bhuvanaany adiidipat /
svaya.m ca nirvaa.nam upetya janmana.h
sa.msaara-bandhaat sva-janaan amuumucat //

In the verse quoted by <CVEDGC at Levels.UniSA.Edu.Au>, a better author would
have avoided the redundant use of tu and param and used tat in the place of
the very last word cha/ca. 
A Sanskrit poetician would not have considered the verse poetic, but, if
pressed, would have said that the second quarter should be something like:
naartha-mantrii (minister of finance) tu taad.r;sa.h. 

Good wishes.

Ashok Aklujkar, Professor, Department of Asian Studies, University of B.C.,
Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. Tel: O: (604) 822-5185, R: (604) 274-5353.
 Fax O:
822-8937. E-mail: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca






From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Fri Mar  1 16:56:28 1996
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 08:56:28 -0800
Subject: Summer Skt, summer mythology
Message-ID: <161227023138.23782.7754051294894564864.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On the 1st or 2nd of February, I posted on this list information about the
guaranteed / not-subject-to-enrollment summer Sanskrit course at the
University of British Columbia and about the summer Mythological literature
of South Asia in Translation course at the same institution. 

In that posting, I stated that the two courses would meet on the same days
of the week but the Sanskrit course in the morning and the mythology course
in the afternoon. Kindly note that both courses will meet in the morning on
Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, from 9:00 A.M. to noon. 

Other important details about the courses, for those who might have missed
the earlier extensive posting, are as follows: 

"Introductory Sanskrit" OR "Sanskrit 102 (951)":
 6 weeks between 2 July and 10 August
Proposed fee Canadian $459 for Canadian citizens and permanent residents of
Canada and 2.5 times this amount for international students (C$1147.50 =
approximately US $823). 
6 credits.
Instructor: Professor Ashok Aklujkar
Textbook: Ashok Aklujkar's Sanskrit: an Easy Introduction to an Enchanting
Language 

For Summer Session calendar and application forms, write to the Registrar's
Office, Rm. 2016 - 1874 East Mall, Brock Hall, U.B.C., Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6T 1Z1. 

Accommodation: Write to the Student Housing and Conferences Department,
U.B.C., 1874 East Mall, Brock Hall, Vancouver, B.C., Canada V^T 1Z1. Tel.
(1-604)-822-2811.  

ASIAN STUDIES 350 (951), "Mythological Literature of South Asia in
Translation,  Instructor: Dr. Vidyut Aklujkar. The dates, days, meeting
times, and other particulars of  practical importance are the same as given
above. 

Good wishes.

Ashok Aklujkar, Professor, Department of Asian Studies, University of B.C.,
Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. Tel: O: (604) 822-5185, R: (604) 274-5353.
 Fax O:
822-8937. E-mail: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca






From ZHe at UH.EDU  Fri Mar  1 15:08:27 1996
From: ZHe at UH.EDU (Zesheng He)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 09:08:27 -0600
Subject: Abuses of Indology
Message-ID: <161227023132.23782.5040968682474504204.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

3/1/96

Mr. Rajagopalan's attacks on Western Indologists are really
uncalled for. I regret this happening in Indology listserv.
I don't believe he is interpreting Khajuraho for  what it is.
He is obliged to provide the inscription he claims is in Khajuraho.
Which volume of Epigraphica Indica (EI) or Annual Report of Indian
Epigraphy (ARE) is the citation?

It is a joke that Asamese, etnically closer to Burmese & Southeast
Asia that South Asia, speak in Sanskrit!! Because Brahmin priests
were always closer to Kings, the temples in the North have Sanskrit
inscriptions. It does not mean that all strata of the hierarchically
arranged Hindu society spoke in Sanskrit. Thanks to Western scholars'
& the analytical methodolgy they fostered, we understand India's past
well. Dalit scholars, Subaltern specialists, Dravidianists would
hardly believe Mr. Rajagopalan's line of explanations.

I think Indian sculptural representaions, and literature like Kavyas
& prabandhas must be studied together. Neo-Hindu attempts to cover
them under a carpet are wrong. Equally the old Western Missionaries'
Victorian viewing lenses.

What about the Telugu & Tamil erotic Pathams. V. Narayana Rao &
A. K. Ramanujan & D. Shulman have translated them. How to interpret them?

I am neither a scholar of classical/medieval India nor my profession
is Indology. But I learnt a great deal about India by books from
University presses, written by academics in the West. We must really
welcome & nurture them. I still feel that there are too few Indologists
compared to people interested in China or Japan. For various reasons,
this happens. An Indian arthistorian told me once: If we find oil,
lot more will be interested in India's past. Also the Chinese pictorial
traditions are easy to study in a museum rather than the sculptures at
remote temples of India.

I am really ashamed of the abuses of Indology listserv.

Sincerely,
R. Ananthanarayanan






From pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu  Fri Mar  1 14:12:54 1996
From: pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Peter Gaeffke)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 09:12:54 -0500
Subject: Indology list ,Hinduja
Message-ID: <161227023131.23782.7518130919585307331.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Mr. Achar wrote that according to the stipulations in the will of 
Colonel Boden the Sanskrit chair at Oxford was established for "the 
conversion of the natives  of India to the Christian Religion" and he 
follows this up by giving the reason for H.H.Wilson's writing his 
"The Religious and Philosophical System of the Hindus"

Out of these sentences some members of the List draw solace and confidence 
about the horrible West and thoses who follow its traces  even now.

But the actual issue is another one: Since the establishment of Western
Universities State and Church were the overlords. However, and differently
from the Muslim madrasas, the Western professors formed corporations and
negotiated charters which slowly provided this "freedom of teaching" we
cherish so much. But still in the 18th century Oxford asked his
professors to adhere to Christian teachings. Therefore it is not
surprising that the Boden bequests was accepted by the Christian regents
and Wilson argued in a Christian way. 

But neither his translation of the Visnu Purana nor the edition of the
Rgveda by Max Mueller and his book about India and what it can teach us,
helped the expansion of Christianity very much. On the contrary, 
despite the official restrictions, some useful work was done in Oxford. 

Now there is no state and religious authority who sets the framework for 
scholarly activities, Unfortunately, scholars themselves, voluntarily 
negotiate the  strings for the money they accept and live happily ever after.





From conlon at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar  1 18:27:48 1996
From: conlon at u.washington.edu (Frank Conlon)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 10:27:48 -0800
Subject: Changes in INDOLOGY
Message-ID: <161227023139.23782.16301668706318618962.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The announced changes in Indology may prove to be an adequate solution 
to  the spamming matter--I certainly hope so.  Restricting posts to 
members of the list may also eliminate some of the more egregious abuses 
of civility to which the list has become increasingly subject.

However, may I offer an observation based upon my experience of 
co-editing H-ASIA.  Subscription to the H-ASIA is not completed until the 
intending subscriber has been sent, completed and returned, an 
information form which includes postal address, e-mail address, status, 
and a description of interests in teaching and/or research.

This required, until last September, my attention on a regular basis.  
Now that our list stands at 1400, it is impossible for me to do this, and 
an alternative arrangement employing staff at our list server has been 
evolved by the H-NET executive.  Still, this has served to assure that 
the majority of subscribers are persons actually interested in the 
scholarly study of the topic of the list--Asian history and culture.

Second, no post goes to the list--even from a member--until it has been 
vetted, and sometimes, edited by one of the co-editors.  Here we seek 
clarity and an absence of the fuel of flames.  The spontaneity of e-mail 
has led some distinguished scholars to tap out a few quick lines in 
response to a post, employing concepts and words which, upon reflection, 
they might well wish to have returned to sender unopened.  This does not 
mean censorship, but it does mean an editorial function that has to be 
met regularly.   

Quite possibly none of the INDOLOGY owners or members would be prepared 
to take up the often burdensome tasks outlined above, but on the basis of 
the two years' experience of H-ASIA, I would submit that it provides an 
effective method for assuring the continuance and expansion of a civil 
academic discourse.


Frank F. Conlon
Professor of History
University of Washington
Seattle, WA 98195
Co-editor of H-ASIA
<conlon at u.washington.edu>






From magier at columbia.edu  Fri Mar  1 15:36:17 1996
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 10:36:17 -0500
Subject: Changes in INDOLOGY
Message-ID: <161227023134.23782.7503068222931360586.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> ... the signal-to-noise ratio on INDOLOGY is becoming too
> low.
> 
> In consultation with colleagues, I have decided that in the interests of
> academic probity, quality, and focus, the INDOLOGY list will in future
> be a closed list.  This means that people who have not subscribed to the
> list will no longer be able to post messages to it.

Dominik,

I'm sure I speak for most of our colleagues who are scholars of
Indology, when I heartily thank you for taking this important and
valuable step to restore INDOLOGY to the high level of intellectual
and scholarly discourse which it once enjoyed. Amusing as the spammers
and quacks have sometimes been, it's certainly high time we got this
forum focussed once again on the actual topic of Indology. No doubt
you will receive a barrage of flames and abuse from those who will now
be prevented from hijacking our mailboxes for their own peculiar
agendas, but rest assured we are behind you all the way.

If this partial step of limiting postings only to subscribers doesn't
work well enough to keep out all the cranks, I would personally
support the stronger step of turning INDOLOGY into a moderated
listserv (so that each individual message could be reviewed before
being allowed to go out to the list), as long as the moderator were
someone (such as yourself) known to be just and objective and clearly
committed to the scholarly enterprise of Indology. But I realize that
would entail much more work, and just might not be necessary.

Thanks once again for 'doing the needful' and for making INDOLOGY an
excellent forum.

David Magier
Columbia University





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Fri Mar  1 11:03:34 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 11:03:34 +0000
Subject: Man/Manu (was Re: Khajuraho)
Message-ID: <161227023126.23782.7177689583691352389.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Joydeep Mitra said:
> 
> Man (the word) originates from the Sanskrit word of 'Manu' (inclusive). -JM.
> 

Dear Mr Mitra,

A lack of knowledge of historical philology has led you astray.
"Man" in no sense "originates" from a Sanskrit word, although of course
they are cognate forms.

Very few English words are borrowed from Sanskrit.  Many English words
are cognate with Sanskrit and other IE words.

Dominik Wujastyk







From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Fri Mar  1 11:38:37 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 11:38:37 +0000
Subject: Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji
Message-ID: <161227023127.23782.10666183894081229534.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Due to serious system crashes at the VSNL in India, the email addresses
for some subscribers have had to change.  Also, if you have
correspondents on VSNL systems, be aware that recent email to them may
have been lost.

A few days ago I posted the address of Dr. Shivamurthy Swamiji, Chairman
of the Organizing Committee for the next World Sanskrit Conference. That
email address has now been changed to

        swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in

(i.e., giasbm01 -> giasbg01)



Dominik Wujastyk,






From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Fri Mar  1 11:55:29 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 11:55:29 +0000
Subject: Changes in INDOLOGY
Message-ID: <161227023129.23782.17181831288963877918.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Recent and continuing abuses and misuses of the INDOLOGY discussion
group have led to a reexamination of the terms on which INDOLOGY is
conducted.

The abuses I have in mind fall into two categories: 1) spamming and 2)
use of INDOLOGY bandwidth by vocal persons not qualified in the academic
disciplines of indology, or for purposes not included in INDOLOGY's
terms of reference.

Both of these problems have existed for a long time, but as a result of
rising membership numbers (over 450), and the general expansion
of the internet, the signal-to-noise ratio on INDOLOGY is becoming too
low.

In consultation with colleagues, I have decided that in the interests of
academic probity, quality, and focus, the INDOLOGY list will in future
be a closed list.  This means that people who have not subscribed to the
list will no longer be able to post messages to it.

I hope that this change will eliminate the spamming which has assailed
the list recently.  Vulnerabilities still exist, but the overall
situation should be ameliorated.

I am also discussing with colleagues methods for processing subscription
requests, as a means of addressing point 2) above.

These changes to INDOLOGY will entail a certain amount of upheaval, I'm
afraid.  It seems likely that in the near future we shall be asking all
members to unsubscribe from INDOLOGY, and then to resubscribe.  This is
necessary in order to address the problem of people whose email
addresses have changed since they originally subscribed.

Watch this space.

Sincerely,

Dominik Wujastyk

--

Wellcome Institute,
183 Euston Road,
London NW1 2BE.

FAX: +44 171 611 8545
email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk

For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page:
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html






From athr at loc.gov  Fri Mar  1 19:35:29 1996
From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 14:35:29 -0500
Subject: Library of Congress resumed limited international interlibrary loan
Message-ID: <161227023141.23782.13172350405597851203.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The Library of Congress has resumed interlibrary loan to other countries 
on a limited basis.  Please see the following forwarded message.

Allen Thrasher
Southern Asia Section
Library of Congress  


From: "Carol Ann Hughes"  <BL.CAH at rlg.stanford.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <shares-all at lyra.stanford.edu>
Subject: LC joins SHARES

          Library of Congress Joins SHARES

The Library of Congress (DCLW) has joined SHARES.  As a full
participant in SHARES, LC need no longer be a lender of last
resort.  Ariel delivery will be used whenever possible and every
effort will be made to provide prompt turnaround time for
requests.

The Library of Congress is also now accepting ILL requests from
non-U.S. libraries for both loans and copies over the RLIN ILL
system.  Filled requests for international SHARES partners will
be included in the annual net lending calculation. Domestic
lending will not be included in the net lending calculation
because of LC's long-standing policy of free document supply for
U.S. institutions.









From ANDREWC at cc1.uca.edu  Fri Mar  1 14:53:20 1996
From: ANDREWC at cc1.uca.edu (Andrew Cohen)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 14:53:20 +0000
Subject: address request
Message-ID: <161227023142.23782.4259953797222291389.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anyone know the address of Tapati Guha-Thakurta? or, if she is 
still there, the address of the Centre for Studies in Social 
Sciences, Calcutta?

While I'm at it: anyone have the addresses for Geeta Kapur and Sunit 
Chopra?

Thanks
Andrew Cohen
Andrewc at cc1.uca.edu





From CVEDGC at Levels.UniSA.Edu.Au  Fri Mar  1 06:33:40 1996
From: CVEDGC at Levels.UniSA.Edu.Au (CVEDGC at Levels.UniSA.Edu.Au)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 16:03:40 +0930
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <161227023124.23782.1741386307819843415.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

For the past five weeks Australia is in the grip of national election
campaign.We have been subjected to debates concerning Australia's external debt
burden which currently runs at some 185 billion Australian dollars. The
governing party says it is not bad to have such debt level whereas the
opposition says it impedes economic growth. These exchanges reminded me of the
following shloka composed and recited in the Indian Parliament by the late C.D.
Deshmukh (Finance Minister in Pandit Nehru's cabinet and a Sanskrit scholar):
RuNakartA pitA Stru na tu mantri param tatha
RuNam duhkhAya putrNam raStrANam tu hitAya cha.





From hgroover at qualitas.com  Fri Mar  1 21:43:01 1996
From: hgroover at qualitas.com (Henry Groover)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 16:43:01 -0500
Subject: Deshmukh verse -Reply
Message-ID: <161227023144.23782.5514766083322924894.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dr. Aklujkar-

I enjoyed this posting immensely (like a breath of fresh air after recent
rants).  Would you mind if I forward it to humanities.language.sanskrit
(currently suffering from lack of input) ?

Regards,
Henry Groover







From ericgeer at mindspring.com  Sat Mar  2 21:26:41 1996
From: ericgeer at mindspring.com (Eric Geer)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 96 16:26:41 -0500
Subject: Changes in INDOLOGY
Message-ID: <161227023146.23782.14999664534166315926.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

At 01:53 PM 3/1/96 GMT, you wrote:
>
>Recent and continuing abuses and misuses of the INDOLOGY discussion
>group have led to a reexamination of the terms on which INDOLOGY is
>conducted.
>
>The abuses I have in mind fall into two categories: 1) spamming and 2)
>use of INDOLOGY bandwidth by vocal persons not qualified in the academic
>disciplines of indology, or for purposes not included in INDOLOGY's
>terms of reference.

>These changes to INDOLOGY will entail a certain amount of upheaval, I'm
>afraid.  It seems likely that in the near future we shall be asking all
>members to unsubscribe from INDOLOGY, and then to resubscribe.  This is
>necessary in order to address the problem of people whose email
>addresses have changed since they originally subscribed.
>
 
What will happen to those of us without "academic credentials" who neither
spam nor annoy the list members?  I read this and several other academic
lists in order to keep abreast of the fields and the current discourse.  I
don't contribute or ask questions, as I'm not really qualified, but I enjoy
and I learn.  In a way, I think that educated amateurs like me may be a
valuable link, although a quiet one, to the rest of the world.  I would miss
greatly your conversation if I were to be excluded.
 
respectfully,
Eric Geer






From RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU  Sat Mar  2 23:56:18 1996
From: RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU (RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 96 17:56:18 -0600
Subject: Mahabharata reference
Message-ID: <161227023147.23782.12359139668555553645.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Michael Rabe ,
	The statement I made was that the sculptures which are shown
repeatedly in many photographs of Khajuraho is not the correct 
interpretation of what the Hindu temple stands for . The yemple stands for 
the noblest of all human principles as it is incribed in the walls of khajuraho itself .
	In fact the hindu religious texts like the vedas , puranas 
stress brahmacharya which is control of such sexual bestility .
	The pictures of carvings have been used for a long time to give
a wrong interpretation of the hindu temple.
	As for the quotation given  on the walls of that Hindu temple it is 
for anyone to go there and see. A picture of it can be taken if one
wants.  I did not say that such sculptures are non-existent on that temple.
M.Rajagopalan





From RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU  Sun Mar  3 00:26:33 1996
From: RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU (RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 96 18:26:33 -0600
Subject: Abuses of Indology
Message-ID: <161227023149.23782.12138503972552240221.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Anantanarayanan ,
I said that in a news paper reort in India it was said that some
assamese still speak in sanskrit. I also mentioned as an internal evidence
to think about that many inscriptions in the temples of north india
are i sanskrit and not the local languages. Many inscriptions in
the recently built temples in tamilnadu ( where tamil is spoken ) is in 
tamil and it is not neccessary to work hard to prove that
tamil is spoken by masses to-day in tamilnadu .These are evidences to
think about in the decision making of whether sanskrit was 
spoken in the past history of india by masses . Persons like kalidasa
are said to have written the great sanskrit epics before they joined
any royal court and at that situation Kalidasa was just an ordinary 
person among the masses .Please read hinduism from hindu sorces and learn
and do not be ashamed of knowing the truth .





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Sun Mar  3 18:13:05 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 96 13:13:05 -0500
Subject: Changes in INDOLOGY
Message-ID: <161227023151.23782.13146700305089438048.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Sat,  2 Mar 1996 21:34:05 GMT Eric Geer wrote:

>What will happen to those of us without "academic credentials" who neither
>spam nor annoy the list members? 

This is a central question, and hard to solve.  I and the others who are
discussing this matter with me certainly want you and others in your category to
continue to stay with the list.  In the end, any system has to balance openness
with the risk of misuse, and there is no perfect solution.  There is another
category we can imagine too, of people who are qualified in Indology, but keep
posting advertisements, or something else unsuitable.  

I think that when people join the new INDOLOGY, there will be a questionnaire
and this document will make the aims and rules of acceptable conduct very clear.
 There will also be a system of graded warnings: "Dear Sir or Madam, if your
<xxx> posting does not meet the criteria of conduct or acceptability described
for the INDOLOGY list.  This is a first warning.  After two more such warnings
your name will be removed from the list of subscribers."

Another idea under discussion is that every message passes before an editor
before appearing on the list.  This is very labour intensive, but may be the
only solution.  If a message is judged by the editor to be unsuitable, it never
gets to the list, or gets edited first.  If the poster feels aggrieved, s/he
takes it up with the editor; it never gets to the public list.

Rest assured, the category of member which you describe is not under threat.

Dominik


--
Dominik Wujastyk







From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no  Sun Mar  3 14:13:50 1996
From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 96 15:13:50 +0100
Subject: Changes in INDOLOGY
Message-ID: <161227023153.23782.16088529064661268874.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Eric Geer wrote:

>What will happen to those of us without "academic credentials" who neither
>spam nor annoy the list members?  I read this and several other academic
>lists in order to keep abreast of the fields and the current discourse.  I
>don't contribute or ask questions, as I'm not really qualified, but I enjoy
>and I learn.  In a way, I think that educated amateurs like me may be a
>valuable link, although a quiet one, to the rest of the world.  I would miss
>greatly your conversation if I were to be excluded.
>

Dominik, Eric has a point with which I personally sympathize, even if I
agree that something has to be done with the more idiotic contributions
that have hit the screens lately. Would it be possible to construct a
system with graded privileges? E.g.: Full privileges: Being able to do what
we have been doing so far; Restricted privileges: Only being able to *read*
mail from the Indology server. If graded privileges are technically
feasible, it would seem a fair solution to me. Full privileges could then
be granted to persons with an Indological education (active scholars,
students etc.) If somebody abuses the net, then it would be possible to
remove his/hers writing privilege, and the serious netters would not be
bothered.

Best regards,

Lars Martin Fosse



Lars Martin Fosse
Research Fellow
Department of East European
and Oriental Studies
P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
N-0315 OSLO Norway

Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
Fax: +47 22 85 41 40

E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no







From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Sun Mar  3 22:48:57 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 96 17:48:57 -0500
Subject: New TeX fonts for Indian languages
Message-ID: <161227023155.23782.9715848064160668967.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


I was checking out the CTAN archive on Friday, and noticed two new Indian fonts
for TeX: 

*  Bengali by Muhammad Masroor Ali (masroor at human.ai.kyushu-u.ac.jp),
and 
*  Gurumukhi by Amarjit Singh (asingh at evolving.com).

The Bengali is an adaptation of an earlier 300dpi bitmap font, so is best when
used with 300dpi laser printers.  It also needs ITRANS to be installed.  

The Gurumukhi, however, is a proper METAFONT vector font, and is thus suitable
for all levels of printing, from dot-matrix right up to phototypesetting.  It
looks very nice indeed.

Finally, news is just breaking of a new Devanagari Sanskrit font by Charles
Wikner (wikner at nacdh4.nac.ac.za).  This started off as an adaptation of the fine
Velthuis font which is in wide use by TeX users.  But Wikner has ended up with a
substantially different font, which I find very attractive.  It has a less
formal look than the Velthuis, with a nod in the direction of high-quality
calligraphy.  He has written a completely new pre-processor too.  The biggest
step forward is that Wikner's system permits the use of Vedic accentuation,
which opens up a whole new range of uses.  The pre-processor also allows the
same transliterated input (which is essentially the same as Velthuis input) to
appear either as Devanagari or as romanized transliteration with a simple change
of macro.  The i-hooks that connect to consonants are all different widths, in
order correctly to join the consonant upright.  There are other nice features
too.

Wikner's Devanagari will also appear on CTAN in a day or two.

The CTAN -- Comprehensive TeX Archive Network -- is a group of ftp/www sites
which provide huge archives of TeX software, and which mirror each other.  The
British site is ftp.tex.ac.uk; the US one (not always up to date) is
ftp.shsu.edu.  For the above materials, look in /pub/tex-archive/languages.  For
a general www overview of CTAN, see http://jasper.ora.com/ctan.html.

Dominik



--
Dominik Wujastyk







From ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU  Mon Mar  4 00:02:25 1996
From: ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU (ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 96 18:02:25 -0600
Subject: Indology list ,Hinduja
Message-ID: <161227023160.23782.9590018745975156953.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Mr. Peter Gaeffke wrote on the stipulations of the Boden Chair:
>Out of these sentences some members of the List draw solace and confidence 
>about the horrible West and thoses who follow its traces  even now.
>

I for one do not draw any solace, nor do I think that the whole west is
horrible. I only feel sorry and hurt that wrong ideas about Hinduism have been
propagated because of ignorance or prejudice of one kind or another. I try in
my own inadequate way to point out them.

He further writes:

>But the actual issue is another one: Since the establishment of Western
>Universities State and Church were the overlords. However, and differently
>from the Muslim madrasas, the Western professors formed corporations and
>negotiated charters which slowly provided this "freedom of teaching" we
>cherish so much. But still in the 18th century Oxford asked his
>professors to adhere to Christian teachings. Therefore it is not
>surprising that the Boden bequests was accepted by the Christian regents
>and Wilson argued in a Christian way. 
>

Certainly, we have to thank those pioneers for raising the flag of intellectual
freedom.

But, when he writes
>........................................... nor the edition of the
>Rgveda by Max Mueller and his book about India and what it can teach us,
>helped the expansion of Christianity very much. On the contrary, 
>despite the official restrictions, some useful work was done in Oxford. 
>
I must again quote, this time Max Mueller himself:

" Large number of Vedic hymns are childish in the extreme;tedious, low
commonplace"  in "chips from a german workshop", p 27 (1866)

" nay, they contain, by the side of simple, natural, childish thoughts, many
ideas which to us sound modern, or secondary and tertiary" in "India, what it
can teach us" p 118, (1882)
 
" This edition of mine and the translation of the Veda will hereafter tell to a
great extent on the fate of India....It is the root of their religion and to
show them what the root is, I feel sure, is the only way of uprooting all that
has sprung from it during the last three thousand years." in a letter to his
wife written in 1866; Life and letters of Max Mueller vol I, ch XV, p 346.

"The ancient religion of India is doomed and if Christianity does not step in,
whose fault will it be?" in a letter to Duke of Argyl, 16 Dec. 1868.

He arbitrarily fixed the date of the Vedas much against the objections of
Wilson.

Monier-Williams declared "Brahmanism, therefore, must die out.  In point of
fact,false ideas on the most ordinary scientific subjects are so mixed up with
its doctrines..". in "Modern India and the Indians" 1879, p 261

But, it was then. According to Mr. Gaeffke:
 
>Now there is no state and religious authority who sets the framework for 
>scholarly activities, Unfortunately, scholars themselves, voluntarily 
>negotiate the  strings for the money they accept and live happily ever after.
>

With the intellectual freedom they enjoy, it is up to the unbiased scholars to
reexamine many wrong statements which have been made against Hinduism.

With the best regards,perhaps not qualified to be a member of the list,
_ Narahari Achar 





From vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu  Sun Mar  3 23:13:22 1996
From: vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 96 18:13:22 -0500
Subject: Changes to Indology
Message-ID: <161227023158.23782.13505632856380002595.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


While I sympathise with the desire to make this a restricted list, it
would be quite disappointing to have the privilege of posting withheld
from all non-professionals. The main advantage of mailing lists is
the ability to ask questions of live persons. I hope that this would
not be lost.

-Nath






From ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU  Mon Mar  4 00:17:24 1996
From: ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU (ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 96 18:17:24 -0600
Subject: "Occi-centric" values in Vedic Studies?
Message-ID: <161227023162.23782.12807109768843390499.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 
>Though I understand the reasoning that compells Mr. Gaeffke to make this
>statement, I have difficulty swallowing the underlying "occi-centric"
>values in this type of perspective from those who study ancient India. I
>think this way of thinking needs to be problematized, in a more scholarly
>sense!
>
>Yvette

>
Dear Ms. Yvette:
 I agree with you. Surely you give me more credit than I deserve!
Narahari Achar





From gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de  Sun Mar  3 20:14:09 1996
From: gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (gor05)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 96 21:14:09 +0100
Subject: "RE: INDOLOGY
Message-ID: <161227023156.23782.15852003686549844470.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dominik,

I hate to add yet another suggestion to an already long list of suggestions 
for re-arranging the system for INDOLOGY, but here goes nothing:

Why not just leave the list - closed to non-members - unmoderated? If an 
advertisement or chain-letter is posted, that member would just be removed 
from the list with no further warning. If however, accusations, etc., 
are flung across the screen, then the individual involved would  
receive a warning (up to 3 altogether? 2?) and would only be removed if 
his/her conduct continued to be abusive. That way there would not be the 
need to edit the list and no one who is interested but without academic 
'credentials' would be excluded. 

Just thought I'd add that. At any rate, I also whole-heartedly support 
every attempt at bringing INDOLOGY back to where it should be (and was not 
so long ago)

John Peterson, gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de





From phijag at cobra.nus.sg  Mon Mar  4 01:48:36 1996
From: phijag at cobra.nus.sg (phijag at cobra.nus.sg)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 09:48:36 +0800
Subject: Mahabharata reference
Message-ID: <161227023164.23782.1400228538638436052.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear members of the list:
I wish to thank all those who took the time and effort to check the
Mahabharata "vice-list" for me in regards to the word "compassion". 1) Such
self-less sharing of resources instantiates what a wonderful service the
list provides. 2) Isn't it interesting that van Buitenen's translation hid
this little gem (compassion) within the list of vices all these years and,
to my knowledge, no one ever thought it a strange bed-fellow? I wonder why
it didn't strike him as odd when he translated it, or, if it did, what his
justification or interpretation was which rendered it acceptable to his
brilliant mind.
Again, thank you, thank you
John

---
John Grimes, Dept of Philosophy, NUS







From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no  Mon Mar  4 09:57:22 1996
From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 10:57:22 +0100
Subject: Changes to Indology
Message-ID: <161227023166.23782.6791560715036238179.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>While I sympathise with the desire to make this a restricted list, it
>would be quite disappointing to have the privilege of posting withheld
>from all non-professionals. The main advantage of mailing lists is
>the ability to ask questions of live persons. I hope that this would
>not be lost.
>
>-Nath

The idea about not giving non-professionals unrestricted access (read and
write privileges) to the list does not imply that these could not ask
questions. Non-professionals may ask any member of the list individually a
question, and if s/he cannot answer it, s/he can forward the question to
the list (this is already being done in some cases). In this way, every
member of the list becomes an "editor" in a small way. The important thing
is to restrict the traffick on the net to serious stuff and exclude the
nonsense.

Lars Martin Fosse



Lars Martin Fosse
Research Fellow
Department of East European
and Oriental Studies
P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
N-0315 OSLO Norway

Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
Fax: +47 22 85 41 40

E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no







From relpbc at emory.edu  Mon Mar  4 16:04:39 1996
From: relpbc at emory.edu (Paul B. Courtright)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 11:04:39 -0500
Subject: Indology list ,Hinduja
Message-ID: <161227023172.23782.18303190153359018606.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A couple of comments regarding the Boden chair and the politics of 
religious/Orientalist discourse in 1832 when Wilson took up the chair.  
Wilson's candidacy for the appointment was contested by some within the 
Church of England on the grounds that he was not religious enough and had 
perhaps not lived up sufficiently to the acceptable levels of personal 
decorum (he had three illigitimate children, one by an Indian mother and 
the other two by an Irish woman active in the Calcutta theater!).  The 
records in the Bodleian show that Wilson was hired over his competition, 
the Rev. Mills, who was then the principal of Bishops College Calcutta.  
Mills made his case for the chair ont he grounds he wanted to train 
English students to learn Sanskrit so that they could translate the 
Christian scriptures into Sanskrit in order that the Brahmanical elites 
would embrace the gospel in their own language.  Wilson, in what may have 
been the last stand of the Orientalists, argued that it was more 
important to teach students to read Sanskrit and translate its content 
into English.  Mills was backed by the more evangelical voices in the 
EIC, Wilson by the older guard whose interests were mre scholarly, and 
whose social standing was more aristocratic. 
Finally, Wilson won out because he was a better scholar.  His opponent 
had only one publication (if I recall correctly) One wonders how the history 
of British India might have gone had Oxford decided differently.  As it 
turned out Wilson had very few students, lived in London, directed the 
EIC Library.  His chair passed to MacDonnell (a Scot) rather than Max 
Mueller (A German expatriate), who had no particular ties to the Church 
of England as far as I know. 

In the present momement of "Post-Orientalism" it is important to look at 
what the historical "facts on the ground" were.  By today's standards all 
of them look alike in that they thought Indian culture was inferior to 
Western culture.  What separated Wilson and Max Mueller from the James 
Mills of his generation was that they did believe that Hinduism's 
creative genius had been obscured and "buried" in the early texts.  Like 
the archaeological projects in Egypt and Babylon, Wilson and others saw 
themselves as digging up and reclaiming a "lost" past.  What, of course, 
they did not do, was pay attention to what was going on in front of them 
in their own day.  The religious practices of Hinduism after the turn of 
the 19th C. were increasingly reclassified as barbaric, superstitious, 
and childlike.  The debates over sati need to be read in the light of 
this cultural shift.  Put on the defensive, the Hindu "community"--i.e., 
a coalition of tradition Brahmanic scholars and their noveau-riche 
patrons in Shobabazaar split between a reinvented Hinduism that excised 
the "medieval" accretions of image worship, pilgrimages, and sacrifice of 
animals (and humans, in the case of sati, "ghat murders", and suicides at 
Prayag and under the wheels of the temple car in Puri--a shrine that the 
Company was complicit in managing and from which it collected money.  
This reform position was articulated by Ram Mohun Roy.  It was an 
inventive and creative move, exemplifying, as some have argued, a 
"Renaissance" in Hinduism.  The other strategy was followed by the 
so-called "orthodox" under the leadership of Radhakanta Deb.  Both Deb 
and Roy were contemporaries, lived near each other in North Calcutta, 
presided over informal gatherings of influential people with serious 
money.  Deb threw the most lavish Durga Puja's which Roy either refused 
to attend or wasn't invited to (I can't get a clear answer to this 
question).  Wilson was friends with Deb, supported him as a fellow member 
on the board of the Sanskrit College in Benares and at other junctures.  
Wilson wrote harsh criciticsm of Carey and the Serampore missionaries, 
and did not appear to have much regard for Roy's reconstruction of the 
"essence" of Hinduism.  

Some random thoughts on a very important period of "paradigm shift" in 
India and Britain with respect to cross cultural (mis)understanding and 
hegemony and resistence.  

Paul Courtright
Emory University   





From JHOUBEN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl  Mon Mar  4 10:33:57 1996
From: JHOUBEN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl (JHOUBEN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 11:33:57 +0100
Subject: board-games: two articles
Message-ID: <161227023168.23782.14673527753025124939.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Two articles on "Sanskrit-studies and Board Games" appeared at a place where 
Sanskritists interested in the subject will perhaps not start searching, viz. 
in the IIAS Working Papers Series, vol. 3, New Approaches to Board Games 
Research: Asian Origins and Future Perspectives. Editor: A.J. de Voogt. 
Publisher: International Institute for Asian Studies, P.O. Box 9515, 2300 RA  
Leiden. 

The book contains the following parts: 
I: Introducing Board Games; II: Descriptive Research and Board Games; III: 
Archaeology and Board Games; IV: Sanskrit Studies and Board Games; V: Computer 
Science and Board Games; VI: Philosophy and Board Games. 

The articles in part IV are "The literary sources of Indian Chess and related 
board games" by Andreas Bock-Raming, and "Antiquity of Indian Board Games - a 
new approach" by C. Panduranga Bhatta. Unfortunately, the editor did not care 
to get all diacritics of Sanskrit words right. 

Jan Houben, research fellow IIAS 





From mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com  Mon Mar  4 19:59:13 1996
From: mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com (mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 11:59:13 -0800
Subject: New TeX fonts for Indian languages
Message-ID: <161227023181.23782.7928235395466852407.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


One of the problems with Velthuis's otherwise excellent
Devanagari font is the lack of hyphenation tables.  This 
makes it very difficult to typeset Devanagari text that
is visually very long, either due to samAsa or sandhi,
since right-justification now becomes an impossibility
due to word wrap.  The ornate, samAsa laden literature
exemplified by Bana's ``kAdambari'', for example, just 
does not look right when typeset using this font.

Has anyone else encountered this problem? If someone
has a solution, I would love to hear it.

Mani Varadarajan
mani at sgi.com





From P.G.Moore at ukc.ac.uk  Mon Mar  4 12:20:44 1996
From: P.G.Moore at ukc.ac.uk (pgm)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 12:20:44 +0000
Subject: "RE: INDOLOGY
Message-ID: <161227023171.23782.965521412640254665.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Unmoderated but closed is definitely the best solution.  Moderation
is a lot of work and slows discussion up (and to some extent subverts
the whole idea of a discussion list).

There is, however, the further question: to remove wrongdoers
immediately, or to post one or more warnings.  Three strikes and
you're out is the *most* generous one should be!

peter moore





From magier at columbia.edu  Mon Mar  4 17:51:55 1996
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 12:51:55 -0500
Subject: Event announcement
Message-ID: <161227023178.23782.2268365359223137191.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The following event announcement is being forwarded to your listserv
or mailing list from the EVENTS CALENDAR section of The South Asia
Gopher. Apologies for any cross-posting. Please contact event
organizers (not me) directly for further information.

David Magier <The South Asia Gopher>

============================================================

THE ROLE OF THE WOMAN DURING CONCEPTION
ACCORDING TO ANCIENT INDIAN MEDICAL LITERATURE

A talk by Dr. Rahul Peter Das
          Professor of Modern Indic Languages
          University of Halle, Germany

co-sponsored by

Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center
and
Southern Asian Institute
Columbia University

MONDAY, March 25, 1996
4:00-6:00pm
Lindsay Rogers Room, 7th Floor
International Affairs Building
420 West 118th Street
Columbia University
New York, NY

Coffee, tea and cookies will be served

For more information:
dhirc at columbia.edu










From garzilli at shore.net  Mon Mar  4 18:43:01 1996
From: garzilli at shore.net (Enrica Garzilli)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 13:43:01 -0500
Subject: IJTS/JSAWS Best of 1995 WWW Resources: RESULTS!
Message-ID: <161227023179.23782.15138371665193763763.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

                         I J T S  and  J S A W S 
                       
                       http://www.shore.net/~india/ 
                             March 4, 1995

We are very glad to announce that our Journals have won several awards in
the "Best of 1995 Social Sciences, Humanities & Asian-Pacific Studies WWW
Resources" promoted by the Australian National University! 

Even though we entered the competition very late and, most important, we
started our publications only a few months ago, these results demonstrate
our readers' support and appreciation -- and this is the most important 
thing for us. 

I heartfully thank who works with me and who has voted for and supported
our Journals! 
  _____________________________________________________________________
                          O U R    A W A R D S


 1995 HIGHEST DATA QUALITY WWW RESOURCE:

                 Journal of South Asia Women Studies
            
                 Independent, USA
                        
 _________________________________________________________________

 1995 2nd BEST OVERALL WWW RESOURCE:

                 Journal of South Asia Women Studies
            
                 Independent, USA
  _________________________________________________________________
   
 1995 2nd MOST ELEGANT WWW RESOURCE:
        
                 Journal of South Asia Women Studies
            
                 Independent, USA
                      
 1995 3rd MOST ELEGANT WWW RESOURCE:       

                 International Journal of Tantric Studies
            
                 Independent, USA
                      


Thank you very much!


Enrica Garzilli
Editor-in-Chief









From michaels at relwi.unibe.ch  Mon Mar  4 14:19:51 1996
From: michaels at relwi.unibe.ch (Axel Michaels)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 15:19:51 +0100
Subject: earpieces
Message-ID: <161227023176.23782.15780991429559300167.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Mr. Pulliainen,
there is, as you already might know, an elaborate cult of earpiecing 
and wearing thick ear-rings made out of wood or rhino horns among the kanphata 
asectics of Northern India. The classical study for it is Briggs, 
Gorakhnath and the Kanphata Yogis. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass (Reprint). More recent 
literature you'll find listed in Guenter Unbescheid, Kanphata- Untersuchungen zu 
Kult, Mythologie und Geschichte sivaitischer Tantriker in Nepal, 
Wiesbaden  1980. 
With best wishes for your work, A.M.
>
>On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Petri Pulliainen wrote:
>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>       Petri Pulliainen                                        ENQUIRY
>>       Vapaudenkatu 15 B 39                                    1996-02-27
>>       15140 Lahti
>>       home +358 18 7528 582
>>       work  +358 40 511 2986
>>       E-mail ppulliai at ameba.lpt.fi
>> 
>>               
>> 
>> 
>>               I`m 26 year old graduating student from Lahti Institute of Design,
>>               Goldsmithing and Jewellery Design Department. For graduating
>>               I`m doing a research of male earpieces and existence in different
>>               cultures. I`d need as much information as possible about, how
>>               those were related into ones social statue, and were there any 
>>               particular group of men who did wear those? I`m searching any-
>>               kind of information, it don`t have to be related to your culture, 
>>               cause research area is from 5000 B.C >>>>>> 1996 A.D.  Pictoral 
>>               evidence would be very precious to me. Already thankful for
>>               your help!!!!!!!!!!!
>>               P.S. also names of books and writers helps and www paths too !
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>                                                       Yours humble student
>> 
>>                                                       Petri Pulliainen 
>> 
>>               
>> 
>> 
>
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof.Dr. Axel Michaels
Universit{t Bern
Institut f}r Religionswissenschaft
Lerchenweg 36
CH-3000 Bern 9
Tel.: (0041)(0)31 631 80 62, Fax.: (0041)(0)31 631 35 51
---------------------------------------------------------------------------





From lubin at husc.harvard.edu  Mon Mar  4 20:24:04 1996
From: lubin at husc.harvard.edu (Timothy Lubin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 15:24:04 -0500
Subject: unedited texts meriting attention?
Message-ID: <161227023187.23782.5937799911664569810.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Indology being a relatively small field that covers a lot of ground, one 
hears of texts that have received scanty attention (or none at all), but 
which might be valuable and interesting to the scholarly community were 
they to be examined in detail.

I suspect that younger scholars in particular--though not exclusively 
they--would be interested to hear from more experienced
researchers suggestions of Sanskrit or other Indian texts in need of editing 
and/or translation and analysis, so that more effort could be directed to 
untilled ground.  Ideally, a suggestion would also note the potential 
value of the text, or the problem on which it could throw light.

If nothing else, the airing of such suggestions would help to indentify 
areas of Indian cultural history that remain in shadow, and to indicate 
gaps in collective knowledge.  It also seems to me that this would be an 
excellent use of the electronic medium's potential for fostering 
collegiality and coordinated effort in the international academy.

Timothy Lubin
Lecturer on the Study of Religion
Harvard University






From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Mon Mar  4 16:27:48 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 16:27:48 +0000
Subject: Error Condition Re: help set
Message-ID: <161227023174.23782.13590998586068712279.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear Dr Houben,

As far as I can deduce, after scrutinizing the messages you forwarded
with a very intense scrut, your "help set" message was apparently
inadvertently sent not to listserv at liverpool..., but to
indology at liverpool....  The listserv software noticed that your message
looked more like a command than something it should send to all the
members.  However, you have sent it to them anyway :-(

Try again, making sure you post to "listserv at liverpool.ac.uk".


Best wishes,
Dominik






From wagers at computek.net  Tue Mar  5 00:45:34 1996
From: wagers at computek.net (wagers at computek.net)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 18:45:34 -0600
Subject: IJTS/JSAWS Best of 1995 WWW Resources: RESULTS!
Message-ID: <161227023185.23782.6397214586019629593.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>We are very glad to announce that our Journals have won several awards in
>the "Best of 1995 Social Sciences, Humanities & Asian-Pacific Studies WWW
>Resources" promoted by the Australian National University!

>Enrica Garzilli
>Editor-in-Chief

Congratulations! I couldn't agree more.

Regards,

Will







From ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU  Tue Mar  5 01:40:22 1996
From: ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU (ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 19:40:22 -0600
Subject: unedited texts meriting attention?
Message-ID: <161227023188.23782.8706446110194153946.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 Great idea! Thanks- Narahari Achar
>Indology being a relatively small field that covers a lot of ground, one 
>hears of texts that have received scanty attention (or none at all), but 
>which might be valuable and interesting to the scholarly community were 
>they to be examined in detail.
>
>If nothing else, the airing of such suggestions would help to indentify 
>areas of Indian cultural history that remain in shadow, and to indicate 
>gaps in collective knowledge.  It also seems to me that this would be an 
>excellent use of the electronic medium's potential for fostering 
>collegiality and coordinated effort in the international academy.
>
>Timothy Lubin
>Lecturer on the Study of Religion
>Harvard University
>
>





From gthursby at religion.ufl.edu  Tue Mar  5 02:43:16 1996
From: gthursby at religion.ufl.edu (Gene Thursby)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 21:43:16 -0500
Subject: Devolutionary/Evolutionary Paradigms
Message-ID: <161227023190.23782.8448111490110242850.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	Can anyone recommend 18th-19th century sources from India that
particularly well illustrate (or are pertinent to) the twin themes that
Paul Courtright noted -- the 18th-20th century "recovery" of practices
from ancient India in the service of what M. Eliade called "the prestige
of origins" or, alternatively, the introduction of innovations in service
of "reform" or "progress" without loss of the "essential genius" of Indic
culture(s).
	Of course there is an ocean of material that contributed to the
formation, development, and application of these simple paradigms in
India.  I know some of it fairly well -- e.g., most of what was produced
by the Arya Samaj, some of what was produced by figures variously
associated with the Brahmo Samaj, etc. -- but would like to take this
occasion to inquire whether someone might wish to commend any particularly
influential or eloquent document(s) that would merit current attention. 

Gene Thursby
University of Florida
<gthursby at religion.ufl.edu>





From kappa-y at sh0.po.iijnet.or.jp  Mon Mar  4 15:26:18 1996
From: kappa-y at sh0.po.iijnet.or.jp (Yasuhiro Okazaki)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 00:26:18 +0900
Subject: Thanks about Vyomavatii's MSS
Message-ID: <161227023183.23782.13036220531272615403.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Members
Today I have recieved the copy of Manuscript of Vyomavatii. I am
thanking for the persons who adviced me or take the trouble to copy
the manuscripts and to send me it. Especially thaniking Dr. Wujastyk
and Dr. Shankar. I am very happy. Their kindnesses encourage me.
I thank very much.
Best wishes
Yasuhiro Okazaki



Yasuhiro Okazaki
Chiyoda-High-School
Arima 600-1, Chiyoda-cho, Yamagata-gun
Hiroshima, JAPAN 731-15
Home: Arima 545, - do -
Phone:+81-826-72-3121(Office)
Phone & Fax:+81-826-72-8851(Home)
E-mail:kappa-y at po.iijnet.or.jp
       khb12400 at niftyserve.or.jp






From mrabe at artic.edu  Tue Mar  5 12:36:52 1996
From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 07:36:52 -0500
Subject: Khajuraho (in a triveni with Changes in Indology, Mbh ref.)
Message-ID: <161227023196.23782.7786426198391049319.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Friends in the cross-cultural business,
        Isn't it often the case that statements that seem patently idoitic
or profaning in one context may contain a welcome truth when
sympathetically construed as emenating from a very different
mindset/discipline or language?

For example, when M. Rajagopalan states that photographs of bestiality or
group-sex at Khajuraho do not give "the correct interpretation of what the
Hindu temple stands for," my first impulse is to protest!  The simple act
of exhibiting objective fact cannot be labeled misinterpretation.  The
likelihood that misinterpretations may abound in subsequent literature is a
different problem--one that keeps later generations of scholars gainfully
employed, thank you very much.

In hopes of finding common ground upon which we two M.R.s may stand, I
recall how helpful to was to read, way back when, this cautionary insight
in W.C. Smith's _Meaning and End of Religion_.  Though it has seemed an
obvious truism ever since, it came as Revelation to my undergraduate
attention:  everyone tends to judge their own religious tradition (or other
cultural biases) in the _Ideal_, while scrutinizing the _real_ (however
aberrant) practices of others.

Thus, while some on this list are wondering about the intentions of
architects, royal patrons and their KApAlika ministrants at 11th c.
Khajuraho, others (naturally) wish to reconcile whatever picture may emerge
with normative statements about _The Hindu Temple_ in general. [Good Luck!]

Rather than speculate further about where that purported inscription is in
Khajuraho (on the walls of a 20th c. temple or guest house, perhaps?) I
conclude with an appeal to keep the Indology listserv unchanged. Can we not
tolerate the the rough and tumble that is inherent when participants speak
from such a variety of vantages, even as we learn to exercise the
Trash-button on our e-mail applications with ever-more blinding speed in
this age of infoglut?








From pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu  Tue Mar  5 13:24:37 1996
From: pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Peter Gaeffke)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 08:24:37 -0500
Subject: Indology list ,Hinduja
Message-ID: <161227023194.23782.13873481223528577697.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Mr. Achar writes:
> 
> With the intellectual freedom they enjoy, it is up to the unbiased scholars to
> reexamine many wrong statements which have been made against Hinduism.
> 
> With the best regards,perhaps not qualified to be a member of the list,
 
It would be a great loss to those interested in South Asia when for what 
reasons ever contributors to the List such as Mr. Achar would be removed. He 
has brought up one of the central problems which plague recent Western 
scholarship on India:

There exist now two camps. One which thinks that Orientalists were 
intellectual imperialists and whatever they did and produced was designed 
to keep South Asia in constant  servitude and intellectual inferiority. 
These are ideas taken out of the grab bag of Edward Said who got his cues 
from Michael Foucoult, etc., etc.

The other camp follows a vision that a serious attempt to discover the
truth was made since the methods of classical philology and indo-european
linguistics were applied in the study of the Veda and from there in the
larger field of classical indology. However, this discovery of the truth
and the truth itself are complicated and sometimes excruciating processes. 
Nevertheless, useful contributions to a field which has advanced since
enormously, has been made by the scholars of the 19th century. Mistaken
judgments and egregious assumptions were and will be always with us 
(the list offers examples in abundance)

As to Max Mueller, the really interesting question is: Why would an 
intelligent human being in his right mind devote nearly most of his 
working life to the study of a text which he himself calls "childish in 
the extreme," "tedious,""common place," etc. 

One can say, of course, he did this to please the British imperialists 
and his friends, the royal family and this would cast a serious blame on 
his character.. 

But why then was he called Mokshamula in India and why took Vivekananda
the great trouble to Visit him in Oxford?. 

I would say Mueller provided the Indian with the first printed edition of 
the Rgveda but he did not understand the text as we do today. He could 
not use Hermann Grassmannn,s Woerterbuch zum Rigveda, nor was the 
translation of Karl Friedrich Geldner known to him to name only the 
starting point of a serious study of the text. But his edition elicited 
Theodor Aufrecht's Rgveda which for being printed in Latin characters never 
achieved the fame of Max Mueller's edition. However, Aufrecht's book 
meant a remarkable advancement  of the field.

As to Mr. Achar's defense of Hinduism as basis for his scholarship, I 
would like to remind him of the words of a historian who already 2000 
years ago started his history with the promise that he would present 
his material "sine ira et studio" (Tacitus, Annales,1.1)

Though it is not "ira" (krodha) which speaks out of Mr. Achar's words, but 
it is definitely "studium" (partisanship) which easily clouds the view of 
the whole picture and ultimately makes the attainment of something like the 
truth impossible. .  

Peter Gaeffke





From pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu  Tue Mar  5 13:56:52 1996
From: pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Peter Gaeffke)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 08:56:52 -0500
Subject: Indology list ,Hinduja
Message-ID: <161227023198.23782.8443415282754839536.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I would like to congratulate Dr. Courtright  to a message which shows 
nicely how facts, correctly interpreted,  conquer ideology

Peter Gaeffke





From bthorp at plains.nodak.edu  Tue Mar  5 16:46:18 1996
From: bthorp at plains.nodak.edu (Burt M Thorp)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 10:46:18 -0600
Subject: Indology list ,Hinduja
Message-ID: <161227023199.23782.2417796165609643687.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

How did Monier-Williams fit into the Wilson-Mueller-Macdonnell lineage?   
I had assumed he was the one who beat out Mueller for the Boden chair.

Burt M. Thorp
University of North Dakota
Internet:  bthorp at plains.nodak.edu

On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, Paul B. Courtright wrote:

> A couple of comments regarding the Boden chair and the politics of 
> religious/Orientalist discourse in 1832 when Wilson took up the chair.  
> Wilson's candidacy for the appointment was contested by some within the 
> Church of England on the grounds that he was not religious enough and had 
> perhaps not lived up sufficiently to the acceptable levels of personal 
> decorum (he had three illigitimate children, one by an Indian mother and 
> the other two by an Irish woman active in the Calcutta theater!).  The 
> records in the Bodleian show that Wilson was hired over his competition, 
> the Rev. Mills, who was then the principal of Bishops College Calcutta.  
> Mills made his case for the chair ont he grounds he wanted to train 
> English students to learn Sanskrit so that they could translate the 
> Christian scriptures into Sanskrit in order that the Brahmanical elites 
> would embrace the gospel in their own language.  Wilson, in what may have 
> been the last stand of the Orientalists, argued that it was more 
> important to teach students to read Sanskrit and translate its content 
> into English.  Mills was backed by the more evangelical voices in the 
> EIC, Wilson by the older guard whose interests were mre scholarly, and 
> whose social standing was more aristocratic. 
> Finally, Wilson won out because he was a better scholar.  His opponent 
> had only one publication (if I recall correctly) One wonders how the history 
> of British India might have gone had Oxford decided differently.  As it 
> turned out Wilson had very few students, lived in London, directed the 
> EIC Library.  His chair passed to MacDonnell (a Scot) rather than Max 
> Mueller (A German expatriate), who had no particular ties to the Church 
> of England as far as I know. 
> 
> In the present momement of "Post-Orientalism" it is important to look at 
> what the historical "facts on the ground" were.  By today's standards all 
> of them look alike in that they thought Indian culture was inferior to 
> Western culture.  What separated Wilson and Max Mueller from the James 
> Mills of his generation was that they did believe that Hinduism's 
> creative genius had been obscured and "buried" in the early texts.  Like 
> the archaeological projects in Egypt and Babylon, Wilson and others saw 
> themselves as digging up and reclaiming a "lost" past.  What, of course, 
> they did not do, was pay attention to what was going on in front of them 
> in their own day.  The religious practices of Hinduism after the turn of 
> the 19th C. were increasingly reclassified as barbaric, superstitious, 
> and childlike.  The debates over sati need to be read in the light of 
> this cultural shift.  Put on the defensive, the Hindu "community"--i.e., 
> a coalition of tradition Brahmanic scholars and their noveau-riche 
> patrons in Shobabazaar split between a reinvented Hinduism that excised 
> the "medieval" accretions of image worship, pilgrimages, and sacrifice of 
> animals (and humans, in the case of sati, "ghat murders", and suicides at 
> Prayag and under the wheels of the temple car in Puri--a shrine that the 
> Company was complicit in managing and from which it collected money.  
> This reform position was articulated by Ram Mohun Roy.  It was an 
> inventive and creative move, exemplifying, as some have argued, a 
> "Renaissance" in Hinduism.  The other strategy was followed by the 
> so-called "orthodox" under the leadership of Radhakanta Deb.  Both Deb 
> and Roy were contemporaries, lived near each other in North Calcutta, 
> presided over informal gatherings of influential people with serious 
> money.  Deb threw the most lavish Durga Puja's which Roy either refused 
> to attend or wasn't invited to (I can't get a clear answer to this 
> question).  Wilson was friends with Deb, supported him as a fellow member 
> on the board of the Sanskrit College in Benares and at other junctures.  
> Wilson wrote harsh criciticsm of Carey and the Serampore missionaries, 
> and did not appear to have much regard for Roy's reconstruction of the 
> "essence" of Hinduism.  
> 
> Some random thoughts on a very important period of "paradigm shift" in 
> India and Britain with respect to cross cultural (mis)understanding and 
> hegemony and resistence.  
> 
> Paul Courtright
> Emory University   
> 
> 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Tue Mar  5 11:17:28 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 11:17:28 +0000
Subject: New TeX fonts for Indian languages
Message-ID: <161227023192.23782.2846196188493688413.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Mani Varadarajan said:
> 
> 
> One of the problems with Velthuis's otherwise excellent
> Devanagari font is the lack of hyphenation tables.


Actually, Velthuis's devnag.c pre-processor was updated several years
ago to insert discretionary hyphenation points after all syllables.  The
skt.c pre-processor from Charles Wikner does the same.  My dev2e.sty
(q.v. for documentation) package for LaTeX2e contains [hyphenation] as
an option when loading.

Unfortunately, Frans hasn't been very pro-active in promoting the latest
changes to his system.  But the INDOLOGY supplementary gopher has the
new version.

Incidentally, this scheme for hyphenation may seem rudimentary, but it
works surprisingly well, in my view.  It also reflects accurately the
line-breaking habits of manuscript scribes.

In transliterated Sanskrit, scholars have implicitly developed
etymologically-based hyphenation rules, which are much harder to encode
for an automatic system.  (But work on this problem for German and other
languages has been reasonably successful.)  But while, say,
"buddhava-cana" looks very odd in romanization, it looks okay in
Devanagari (in my view), and it is in the tradition of manuscript and
early book production.

Best wishes,
Dominik







From ssa at violet.berkeley.edu  Tue Mar  5 22:08:21 1996
From: ssa at violet.berkeley.edu (ssa at violet.berkeley.edu)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 14:08:21 -0800
Subject: Social Science Position at Berkeley
Message-ID: <161227023207.23782.11084493234768611683.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

We have been informed that there was an error in the closing
date for the below advertisement.
Please note the date of April 30, 1996 for the receipt of applications.


The Dean of Social Sciences at the University of California,
Berkeley invites applications for a tenure
or tenure-track position in South Asian Studies beginning in the
1996-97 academic year.  Candidates
in Political Science and other social science disciplines whose
work contains a significant focus on
contemporary Indian politics will be considered.  In the event
of a distinguished senior hire, a chair in
India Studies may accompany the appointment.  Candidates should
have a Ph.D. in hand or expected
by June 1996.  Applications with vitae, letters of
recommendation, and other relevant materials
should be sent to Ms. Gail Stern, South Asia Search Committee,
International and Area Studies, 260
Stephens Hall, University of California, Berkeley 94720-2300 by April 30, 1996.

The University of California is an Affirmative Action, Equal
Opportunity Employer.







From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov  Tue Mar  5 20:26:00 1996
From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 14:26:00 -0600
Subject: Khajuraho
Message-ID: <161227023201.23782.1921126272639976357.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


3/5/96

   

   Re: Khajuraho
  **************

All of these are quoted from memory. I don't have the books with me.

1) There is a good article on Khajuraho builders
in B. S. Miller, The powers of art: patronage in Indian 
culture, 1992 Oxford UP.

In the notes, there is a translation of a beautiful inscription
wherein Goddess Uma makes fun of Lord Siva for wearing no clothes, ...
There is slesa in that poem & fits well with that temple motifs.
Will anyone care to write what is given in that article & also
possibly the original sloka. (not given in that work.)


2) Lot of nice pictures of animal sculpture are given in
Stella Snead, Animals in four worlds, University of Chicago press, 1989.
Wendy Doniger's foreword tells her thoughts on why animals
& forests are depicted mainly in outer prakaras. As one moves
towards garbagraha to confront divinity, we see less & less of those
scenes. 

Hinduism is far larger than hindutva views.

N. Ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov





From kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu  Tue Mar  5 20:57:37 1996
From: kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu (Kamal Adhikary)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 14:57:37 -0600
Subject: Abstract
Message-ID: <161227023203.23782.2186534101769157115.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear Colleagues:

	I would like to share with you the abstract of the talk by Prof. 
Deshpande at the Asian 
Studies, at UT Austin.  The abstract is also posted on ASNIC, and 
the URL is: http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/subject/madhavdeshpande.html

Title: "Changing Grammars of Changing Texts: 
                  Understanding the Transmission of the Vedas

              Madhav M. Deshpande, Professor of Sanskrit, Univ. of Michigan

                                   ---Abstract

The traditional Indian conception of the Vedas treats these texts as 
eternal texts and even the possibility of change is rejected. Modern 
scholarship also does not speak with unanimity on the
subject of change during transmission. On the one hand, Oldenberg and 
Bhandarkar say that the text of the Rigveda is not quite the same as it 
was originally. On the other hand, there are scholars today who assert 
that the Rigveda t hat we have today can be treated as a 
tape-recording of what was first composed and recited some 3000 years 
ago. In my presentation, I plan to analyze the
process of transmission of the Vedic exts. This process needs to be 
understood as consisting of many different phases, each being susceptible 
to various factors leading to different degrees of
textual alteration. Such alteration was possible not only before the  
Vedic Samhitas were codified by ancient scholars like Shakalya and 
Shaunaka. Changes of various kinds were possible even after the
formation of the Samhitas.

An impressive record of transmissional changes is available to us, 
especially, in regard to the tradition of the Shaunakiiya Atharvaveda. 
have the formation of the various AV Samhitas, e.g. Shaunakiiya and
Paippalaada. The last two KaaNDas of the currently available Shaunakiiya 
Samhita were most certainly added at a relatively later date and are 
unknown to the two AV Praatishaakhyas: Shaunakiiya Caturaadhyaayikaa and 
Atharva-Praatishaakhya. Besides manuscripts, living and recorded 
reciters, and the commentary of a so-called SaayaNa, we have 
access to a number of interestingly different linguistic descriptions of 
the Shaunakiiya AV. The Sh.AV as known to the Caturaadhyaayikaa is 
already a slight departure from the AV as known to Shaunaka. Then we have
an ancient Shikzaa cited in the Caturaadhyaayiibhaazya (CAB) and the CAB 
itself. There seem to be interesting differences between these texts. 
Then comes the text of the AV as known the Atharva-Praatishaakhya, which 
is significantly different from the AV as known to the Caturaadhyaayikaa 
tradition. The AV as known from the commentary of  SaayaNa is 
againsomething quite different. Finally, the manuscripts and the reciters make 
us aware of a regionally diverse tradition, which often underwent 
unconscious changes as well as self-conscious processes
of ShuddhiikaraNa ("purification") from time to time.



Thanks.
kamal
_______________
Kamal R. Adhikary, Ph.D.
Internet Coordinator, Asian Studies
UT, Austin, Texas 78712
Tel:512-475-6034
Email:kamal at asnic.utexas.edu






From jsiva at uclink3.berkeley.edu  Tue Mar  5 23:03:43 1996
From: jsiva at uclink3.berkeley.edu (jsiva at uclink3.berkeley.edu)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 15:03:43 -0800
Subject: Changes in INDOLOGY
Message-ID: <161227023209.23782.12899594800238868117.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hello INDOLOGY members,

I am a relatively recent member to this list (since Jan. '96) and I have
been at times fascinated, engaged, stirred up, amused, provoked, and yes,
sometimes even bored. Mostly I have been reading with interest but have not
had the desire to contribute until now. What brings me out of the shadows
is the subject of changes to INDOLOGY. As I was reading D Wujastyk's post
(and the responses from D Magier, F Conlon, E Geer, L M Fosse, etc.,) I
found myself getting disturbed even more then when reading some of the
nonsense that have found their way into my mailbox recently through this
list. I think addressing this problem of spaming and inappropriate posts is
commendable. But I am not at all sure of the way in which it is being done.


One of my concerns is the proposal to restrict "use of INDOLOGY bandwidth
by vocal persons not qualified in the academic disciplines of Indology," *
If we were to decide this on the basis of weather or not one has a degree
in "Indology" "oriental studies", etc., that may exclude a number of people
who have knowledge, insight and enthusiasm but no Indology degree. As we
have seen, there has been lots of interesting and illuminating (most
recently the posts by P Courtright and P Gaeffke) discussions going on and
it seems to  me, some of them have been initiated by challenges that seem
(and perhaps are) inappropriate. I think the credit for this goes to the
members of the list who chose to address the issue raised in spite of the
ways in which it was done. The fact that the discussion has brought up "one
of the central problems which plague recent Western scholarship on India"**
seems to me to be no small matter.

This brings me to an other issue, that of power and representation. Lars
Martin Fosse has made a suggestion that seems reasonable, on how to
restrict the "noise" He suggested  "Full privileges could then be granted
to persons with an Indological education (active scholars, students
etc.)"*** This brings up the question of who is (and is most likely to be)
1) scholars of Indology and 2) have access to the net. I think these two
factors (along with what language we choose to use and are restricted to
use by current levels of technology ( i.e., English mostly and roman
alphabet definitely )) act as strong filters for the kinds of discussions
that are even possible on a list such as this. And although I do not know
what the "solution" is I do believe that this is a problem and need to be
taken seriously.

Having said that, I will refrain from going into any more detail for the
moment. I do request however, that at the very least the "consultation with
colleagues"* be carried out in the open and with the contribution of the
rest of the members of the list. And this may be the hardest of all, but
that perhaps we state by name whose postings fall into the category of
inappropriate (or "idiotic" or "nonsense") posts so that we can be clear on
whether we are all in agreement on what constitutes inappropriate posting
and how extensive is the problem, really.

I am sending this off in this half formed manner because if I wait until I
can write it to my satisfaction, it may be too late. Due to the hurried
nature of this response I have not taken the time to put in all the caveats
that are necessary. Let me say here, that I have the highest respect for
the members of this list whose thoughts and opinions I have had the
privilege to read and there is no intention to accuse or attack anyone
personally but only to deal with the issue at hand and to contribute my
voice to the discussion.

My apologies for the length of this post.  Thank you all for your patience.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Date: Fri,  1 Mar 1996 14:26:15 GMT, From: Dominik Wujastyk
<ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk>, Subject: Changes in INDOLOGY

**Date: Tue,  5 Mar 1996 18:10:35 GMT, From: Peter Gaeffke
<pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu>, Subject: Re: Indology list ,Hinduja

*** Date: Sun,  3 Mar 1996 14:21:12 GMT, From:
l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (Lars Martin Fosse), Subject: Re: Changes
in INDOLOGY

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Jeyanthy Siva
South and Southeast Asian Studies
University of California, Berkeley

jsiva at uclinik3.berkeley.edu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lose an hour in the morning, and you will spend all day looking for it.
                                            -- Richard Whately







From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA  Tue Mar  5 21:33:56 1996
From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (RAH)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 15:33:56 -0600
Subject: Velthuis's Devanagari and hyphenation
Message-ID: <161227023205.23782.4640996916912107477.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I used Velthuis's Devanagari script to typeset a book, and Dominik 
Wujastyk helped me immensely. I, too, complained then about no 
hyphenation, so 
he, maybe with the help of others, developed a dev2e package that would 
allow for hyphenation. It worked just fine. The book was published by 
Harrassowitz, complete with hyphenation where needed. If you look at 
Dominik's site on the web or at his ftp site, or at CTAN, I think you will 
find dev2e.sty, and then you should be all right. One little problem I 
had was that at first the hyphenation would work fine in the body of the 
text but not in footnotes. To solve that problem I had to use fnfix.sty. 
Dominik may be able to help more. 

To use dev2e.sty, however, you will have to use LaTeX2e.

Best,
Bob Hueckstedt

Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages
Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba
Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada
http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/asian_studies
fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797







From RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU  Wed Mar  6 00:39:43 1996
From: RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU (RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 18:39:43 -0600
Subject: Indology list ,Hinduja
Message-ID: <161227023212.23782.11884414445879655633.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Peter Gaffke,
Your recent posting on Hinduja celter dated 5-Mar-1996 is interesting.
I am not aware that there are two camps but from my perspective ( since
I spend my life as a scientist) there in only one camp namely to see
the truth . That is why I posted that message on Khajuraho and the verse that 
I saw on the walls . My intention is also to see that we all learn together
the truth and whenever we see a new a data relevant to an item we post it.
	In fact one of the central themes of Hinduism is " SATYAMEVA
JAYATE" which means the truth will win .
	I hope that I  will not be misunderstood if I post information 
( maybe new) as I come across one pertaining to India and Hindu culture.

Rajagopalan





From RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU  Wed Mar  6 00:51:05 1996
From: RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU (RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 18:51:05 -0600
Subject: Khajuraho
Message-ID: <161227023214.23782.3771102262013341329.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

dear ganesan ,
your statement on the sloka about parvati and siva is interesting . it will
be nice to actually see that sloka and analyse calmly what it means and
its intended purpose and learn more about the subject . M.Rajagopalan





From NSALMOND at arus.ubishops.ca  Wed Mar  6 00:03:56 1996
From: NSALMOND at arus.ubishops.ca (Noel Salmond)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 19:03:56 -0500
Subject: khajuraho
Message-ID: <161227023211.23782.14099310293115591523.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

There have been oceans of ink spilled trying to explain the erotic 
temple carvings of India. To my knowledge, the most serious attempt 
in this field remains Devangana Desai, _Erotic Sculptures of India: A 
Socio-Cultural Study_ New Delhi: Munshiram Manoharlal, 1975.

Desai reviews explanatory theories of this material and offers her 
own analysis. I believe the book is an outcome of her doctoral 
dissertation from the University of Bombay.

To my mind, the Khajuraho sculptures are a good example of the 
phenomenon which often occurs in art history wherein we lack 
explicit textual sources that tell us precisely what the intention of 
the visual artists was. Lacking this explicit explanation all we can 
do is juxtapose the visual record with texts that appear to be 
correlated with it. In terms of explanation sometimes this works, 
sometimes it doesn't. Erwin Goodenough demonstrated how the anomolous 
figurative frescos on the walls of the 3rd century synagogue of Dura 
Europus cannot be explained by reference to the Talmud.

Noel Salmond
Dept. of Religion
Bishop's University





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Wed Mar  6 10:44:50 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 10:44:50 +0000
Subject: Sanskrit subhasitas
Message-ID: <161227023217.23782.8417238805050026310.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Forwarded message:
> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 12:30:45 EST
> From: ksn2 at Lehigh.EDU (Kedar Naphade)
> Subject: please forward to indology list
> To: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk
> 
> Could you please forward the following information to the indology list ?
> 
> Thanks, Kedar
> 
> ---------------> ----------------- > ----------------- > ---------
> 
> My collection of Sanskrit SubhAshitas available on the web at
>
>    http://www.lehigh.edu/~ksn2/subh.html
>
>    is now converted to TRANSPERENT GIF format. This means that any of you who
>    do not have access to postscript viewers (and hence could not earlier view
>    the devanaagari subhAshitas) can now do so.
>
>    You just require a mosaic/netscape like web browser to be able to read the
>    subhAshitas in devanaagari..
>
>    Check the site out and send me your comments/corrections at
>    ksn2 at lehigh.edu
>
>    Regards,
>
>    Kedar Naphade
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>All problems of existence are essentially problems of harmonium.
>
>WWW   : http://www.lehigh.edu/~ksn2/personal.html
>






From raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu  Wed Mar  6 22:17:53 1996
From: raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (Narayan S. Raja)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 12:17:53 -1000
Subject: Khajuraho oops! Indology
Message-ID: <161227023232.23782.16525772922371277554.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



On Wed, 6 Mar 1996 RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU wrote:

> As I said before in my posted letters  those figures on the temple do not
> have the purpose of having sexuality as a message. So do not go to khajuraho
> with the hope of a good nice sexy show if that is your intention. As I 
> posted earlier the verses on the walls of the temple indicate that the
> temple stands for  the noblest of human values . Some viewers do not want
> the same story repeated again and again . But I could not help it
> since you brought it up. The age old writngs  which started with some westerners
> who gave their interpreyretation about the temple stands for does seem to be 
> valid .The  purpose of the temple is well interpreted by its users and
> the hindu literature on temples in general and the writing on the wall in
> particular.   M. Rajagopalan 

I get the feeling that you are somewhat
apologetic/defensive about the "sexy"
sculptures at Khajuraho (they are, in
fact, quite sexy -- at least some of them).

As you probably agree, most Hindus (incl.
me, and probably you) are completely
clueless as to what these figures stand
for, and enjoy them on their own terms,
i.e., as "sexy" sculptures.  So what?
Possibly our ancestors were more elevated,
but somehow I doubt it.

I don't see any particular need to bring
in the "noblest of human values" (whatever
they might be) to explain away these sculptures.
Not that sexy sculptures are ignoble, of course.  

Cool it, dude.  No need to be prudish.  Such
sculptures, on a smaller scale, are found in
many other ancient Hindu temples.  No problem,
we like them.

All the best,


Narayan Sriranga Raja.






From Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za  Wed Mar  6 12:25:00 1996
From: Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za (Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 12:25:00 +0000
Subject: Indological Society of South Africa -Conference
Message-ID: <161227023215.23782.8364554502974332145.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

This is to bring to your notice about the Indological conference in South
Africa.  I hope some of you might find time and money to visit SA and
participate in our annual conference.

Annual Conference of the Indological Society of Southern Africa

Call for Papers

The Indological Society of Southern Africa has entered its fourth year.
Once again we are coming up with our annual conference.  The conference
will be held from 1-2 of August 1996 at the University of Durban-Westville
campus.  The topics include a whole range of subjects--Vedic Studies,
Hinduism, Indian Philosophy, Modern and Classical Literature (Sanskrti and
Indian Vernaculars included), Indian Art, Music and Drama, Performing Arts.
Should any of you wish to participate in the conference either by reading
a paper or organising a roundtable discussion, or simply a participant, we
welcome you with lots of enthusiasm.  We do not have funds to provide you
with travel grants but we can write good supporting letters if you wish to
apply for funding from institutions where you work. The deadline for
receiving abstracts of papers is 30 May 1996.  If any of you are planning
to participate in the conference and need accommodation facilities, you
should let us know by the 30 May 1996.  The following are the details of
the conference:

Dates:                  1-2 August 1996
Venue:                  University of Durban-Westville
Conference fee:         $ 10.00 (Ten US dollars)
Accommodation:          Between $60 and $65 (prior information is needed
for reservation)

Please send your abstracts and requirements for accommodation by the 30 May
1996 to:

Dr. P Kumar
Department of Indian Philosophy & Hindu Studies
University of Durban-Westville
Private Bag X54001
Durban
4000
South Africa
Fax: 031-820-2160 or 031-820-2383
Email:kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za

PS: You can either fax or email your abstract and other details.  The
abstract may not exceed 200 words.  If you require a visa to enter South
Africa, then you should send your details at least by end of April so that
you have enough time to get all the paper work done for your Visa etc.,
details.

With kind regards, and welcome to South Africa!


Pratap Kumar
Conference Committee


+----------------------------------------------------------------+
Dr. P. Kumar
Department of Hindu Studies & Indian Philosophy
University of Durban-Westville
Private Bag X 54001
Durban
4000
South Africa
Tel: 031-820-2194
Fax: 031-820-2160
Email: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za







From relpbc at emory.edu  Wed Mar  6 17:31:01 1996
From: relpbc at emory.edu (Paul B. Courtright)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 12:31:01 -0500
Subject: Position Announcement
Message-ID: <161227023224.23782.17616409983497118162.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


	EMORY UNIVERSITY Department of Religion announces a search for an 
Assistant Professor (tenure track) in the study of RELIGIONS OF EARLY 
INDIA, beginning August 15, 1996.  Undergraduate teaching in the 
following areas needed:  early and medieval religions of India, including 
Theravada and early Mahayana Buddhism, and participation occasionally in 
the Introduction to Religion course, and courses dealing with theory, 
methods, and themes in the study of religion.  Graduate teaching in 
Emory's Ph.D. program in Religion with an emphasis on West and South 
Asian Religion needed: advanced Sanskrit, and seminars in topics in early 
South Asian religion.

	Ph.D. must be completed by date of appointment.  Candidates 
should send a curriculum vitae, three letters of recommendation, a sample 
syllabus for an undergraduate course in early through medieval India, and 
a sample of current scholarly writing to:  Paul B. Courtright, Department 
of Religion, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, 30322, USA.  Consideration of 
candidates will begin on April 15 and continue until the position is 
filled.  Emory University is an Equal Opportunity, Affirmative Action 
Employer.





From roesleru at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE  Wed Mar  6 11:05:48 1996
From: roesleru at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE (Roesler Ulrike)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 13:05:48 +0200
Subject: JSAWS Vol. 2, No. 2 - January 1996 - ISSN 1085-7478
Message-ID: <161227023219.23782.15698911384106269140.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Wed, 21 Feb 1996 18:34:13 GMT, Enrica Garzilli wrote:

>The   *JOURNAL OF SOUTH ASIA WOMEN STUDIES*
>  VOL. 2, NO. 1 (JANUARY 26, 1996) -- ISSN 1085-7478
>
>has just been published on our WWW pages:
> 
>http://www.shore.net/~india/jsaws/
>
>CONTENTS:
>
>- Note from the Editor
>- How to submit a contribution?
>- Copyright Notice
>- News
>- The Kyoto-Harvard Transcription
>- Paper: *StrIdhana: To Have and To Have Not*, by Enrica
>  Garzilli
>
>
>If you want to subscribe to the JSAWS mail to:
>
>jsaws at shore.net
>
>with the subject and/or the body:
>
>subscribe <your name>
>
>
>Enjoy the reading!
>
>Enrica Garzilli
>Harvard Law School
>Editor-in-Chief





From sdiamond at sas.upenn.edu  Wed Mar  6 18:11:26 1996
From: sdiamond at sas.upenn.edu (sdiamond at sas.upenn.edu)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 13:11:26 -0500
Subject: South Asian Folklore: An Enyclopedia
Message-ID: <161227023225.23782.11702074862671473771.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

RE:  SEARCH FOR AUTHORS ON CLOTH DYEING- SOUTH ASIA

Dr. Margaret Mills and Dr. Peter Claus are seeking an author to write a 
short article on cloth dyeing to be included in the volume <South Asian
Folklore: An Encyclopedia>.
  
Please send any suggestions for authors, including a brief description of 
their qualifications, to sdiamond at sas.upenn.edu.


Thank You,

Sarah Diamond
Production Editor
<South Asian Folklore: An Encyclopedia>






From RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU  Wed Mar  6 20:58:46 1996
From: RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU (RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 14:58:46 -0600
Subject: Khajuraho oops! Indology
Message-ID: <161227023227.23782.12669018439313255529.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Tritsch,
As I said before in my posted letters  those figures on the temple do not
have the purpose of having sexuality as a message. So do not go to khajuraho
with the hope of a good nice sexy show if that is your intention. As I 
posted earlier the verses on the walls of the temple indicate that the
temple stands for  the noblest of human values . Some viewers do not want
the same story repeated again and again . But I could not help it
since you brought it up. The age old writngs  which started with some westerners
who gave their interpreyretation about the temple stands for does seem to be 
valid .The  purpose of the temple is well interpreted by its users and
the hindu literature on temples in general and the writing on the wall in
particular.   M. Rajagopalan 





From GRUENEN at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Wed Mar  6 15:05:14 1996
From: GRUENEN at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (GRUENENDAHL)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 15:05:14 +0000
Subject: unedited texts meriting attention?
Message-ID: <161227023220.23782.12237191061269637634.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Timothy Lubin's suggestions, I think, should be supported by everyone.
Nevertheless, I for one would hesitate to name a particular text or 
manuscript. It is impossible to keep track of all the activities going 
on, and there is a risk that someone else is already working on the 
very item you suggest.

Therefore all I can contribute is a bit of unsolicited advice: One
way of finding a text worth your time and effort is to consult the
descriptive catalogues of the prominent manuscript collections in
India and elsewhere and to check that against the reference works
(history of literature etc.) of your particular field of interest
(Veda, grammar, epics or whatever it may be). That should give you a
first idea. Then talk to others. This is the point where a forum like
INDOLOGY comes in. Before you really get started try to find out
whether the library that holds the manuscript in question knows of
any other person working on it.

An example: In Haraprasa Sastri's catalogues of the Durbar Library 
(now the National Archives, Kathmandu) you can find any number of 
presumably unique manuscripts of outstanding importance from any 
field of literature. Sastri himself has sometimes pointed out their 
importance in his introduction. The Nepal-German Manuscript 
Preservation Project has microfilmed practically all these 
manuscripts. The microfilmed material is enough to keep several 
generations of scholars busy, and it is available with relative ease.


Reinhold Gruenendahl
Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek
37070 Goettingen
Germany
Phone: 0551/395283

GRUENEN at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de





From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov  Wed Mar  6 21:42:57 1996
From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 15:42:57 -0600
Subject: Dr. A. Govindan Kutty, Leiden University
Message-ID: <161227023230.23782.10587963474694661176.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>





3/16/96

         Dr. A. Govindan Kutty's address
        ***********************************

Can anyone of the learned members here give me the e-mail/postal address
of Dr. A. Govindan Kutty, Leiden University, The Netherlands.
He is a specialist in Tamil & Dravidian languages.

Thanks,
n. ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov





From tritsch at MZDMZA.ZDV.UNI-MAINZ.DE  Wed Mar  6 14:52:17 1996
From: tritsch at MZDMZA.ZDV.UNI-MAINZ.DE (Mark F. Tritsch)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 15:52:17 +0100
Subject: Khajuraho oops! Indology
Message-ID: <161227023222.23782.3136173102923241628.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I'm one of those indologically non-qualified persons, but I'd like to 
nudge along the discussion on Khajuraho. It's 
always struck me that there is a big difference between the 
artistically highly polished portrayals of what seems like 
ritual, "consecrated" sex on the main panels of the upper walls of the 
temple, and the crude representations of oral sex, bestial sex and so 
on along the lower foundation walls. Isn't this intended to 
distiguish divinely dedicated sex (practiced by kings and priests) 
from sex for the satisfaction of animal lusts (practiced by the "ignorant 
masses")? I know there's an enormous literature, and everything 
has probably already been said twenty times, but are there any further 
comments in this direction?

Now about the Indology List. It's a bit like Khajuraho - sublimely 
elevated professional indologists up there simultaneously spouting 
sanskrit slokas and penning transatlantic barbs to one another, down 
here the ignorant unqualified, shooting off unoriginal comments 
often without regard for common decency. Well, no, it's not 
that bad, and any other way it might lose a lot of the spontaneity it 
has. Perhaps a bit cocktail-party like - lots of rubbish and the 
occasional nugget - but one man's nugget is another man's rubbish.

Make it a closed list to keep out the spamming. Be tough with 
insulting contributions. Try to ignore the cranks. And, those of you 
who know it all anyway, just smile patiently and press "delete".

Dominik, the work you do is really worthwhile and very much 
appreciated by many people who never say so.

Regards,

Mark Tritsch
**********************************************************

DR. MARK F. TRITSCH      (Tel/Fax: +49 611 691497)

Institut fuer Zoologie III
Johannes Gutenberg Universitaet
55099 Mainz
Germany

Schnappschuss internationale Forschungsnachrichten
Breslauer Strasse 14 b
65203 Wiesbaden
Germany

**********************************************************





From athr at loc.gov  Wed Mar  6 21:16:27 1996
From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 16:16:27 -0500
Subject: South Asian Folklore: An Enyclopedia
Message-ID: <161227023229.23782.11165711932693043035.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I would suggest contacting Mattie-Belle Gittinger at the Textile Museum 
in Washington and asking her advice.  The Museum's general number is 
202-667-0441.

Allen Thrasher


On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Sarah Diamond wrote:

> RE:  SEARCH FOR AUTHORS ON CLOTH DYEING- SOUTH ASIA
> 
> Dr. Margaret Mills and Dr. Peter Claus are seeking an author to write a 
> short article on cloth dyeing to be included in the volume <South Asian
> Folklore: An Encyclopedia>.
>   
> Please send any suggestions for authors, including a brief description of 
> their qualifications, to sdiamond at sas.upenn.edu.
> 
> 
> Thank You,
> 
> Sarah Diamond
> Production Editor
> <South Asian Folklore: An Encyclopedia>
> 
> 
> 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Wed Mar  6 17:19:25 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 17:19:25 +0000
Subject: unedited texts meriting attention?
Message-ID: <161227023239.23782.7046166397962997802.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

GRUENENDAHL said:
> The Nepal-German Manuscript
> Preservation Project has microfilmed practically all these 
> manuscripts. The microfilmed material is enough to keep several 
> generations of scholars busy, and it is available with relative ease.

... to German nationals only.

I would love to know why this part of the German-Nepalese contract was
agreed to.  Whose idea was it?

Dominik







From RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU  Wed Mar  6 23:44:43 1996
From: RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU (RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 17:44:43 -0600
Subject: Khajuraho oops! Indology
Message-ID: <161227023234.23782.126268147568583860.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

dear sriranga raja,
I am glad to know from your message of 6,mar ,1996 that you go to the temple for a sexy feeling . Then you are surely having a sad and disapoionting experience .
You must go to some clubs for that purpose . Temples are places of worship .
You should be considerate to your ancestors before telling bad things about them.
 I  did not say that there are not some figures on the temples which may be sexy. 
But the point I repeatedly make is that the interpretattion that the temple stands for sexy things is wrong . Some persons like you insist on that wrong thing.
But the correct thing  is that the interpretation is learnt from the Hindu
literature on temples and the inscriptions in the walls of the temples.
Perhaps you have gone to temple as a show and not to worship . I do not 
know.But your interpretation that the temple is standing for sexuality is
wrong. People who go there for worship just do that.If you said that you
go to enjoy sexual objects then you are not going for praying in a 
temple , for the purpose it is intended. Your behaviour does not give out the
purpose of the temple. M.Rajagopalan





From thompson at handel.jlc.net  Thu Mar  7 00:26:38 1996
From: thompson at handel.jlc.net (thompson at handel.jlc.net)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 19:26:38 -0500
Subject: Elizarenkova
Message-ID: <161227023235.23782.12827931032779947281.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I am seeking the address, e-mail or otherwise, of Prof. T. Elizarenkova, to
whom I would like to forward a review of her new book. Can anyone help?
                                                George Thompson







From Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za  Thu Mar  7 11:24:00 1996
From: Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za (Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 11:24:00 +0000
Subject: Khajuraho (in a triveni with Changes in Indology, Mbh ref.)
Message-ID: <161227023237.23782.10634085962093846820.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

I seem to agree with Michael Rabe's suggestion that we keep indology
unchanged in light of what he says.  Yes, many of us were often irritated
with the level to which discussions sliped, but one good thing was that it
opened up controversial matters for open discussion.

Pratap


>Friends in the cross-cultural business,
>        Isn't it often the case that statements that seem patently idoitic
>or profaning in one context may contain a welcome truth when
>sympathetically construed as emenating from a very different
>mindset/discipline or language?
>
>For example, when M. Rajagopalan states that photographs of bestiality or
>group-sex at Khajuraho do not give "the correct interpretation of what the
>Hindu temple stands for," my first impulse is to protest!  The simple act
>of exhibiting objective fact cannot be labeled misinterpretation.  The
>likelihood that misinterpretations may abound in subsequent literature is a
>different problem--one that keeps later generations of scholars gainfully
>employed, thank you very much.
>
>In hopes of finding common ground upon which we two M.R.s may stand, I
>recall how helpful to was to read, way back when, this cautionary insight
>in W.C. Smith's _Meaning and End of Religion_.  Though it has seemed an
>obvious truism ever since, it came as Revelation to my undergraduate
>attention:  everyone tends to judge their own religious tradition (or other
>cultural biases) in the _Ideal_, while scrutinizing the _real_ (however
>aberrant) practices of others.
>
>Thus, while some on this list are wondering about the intentions of
>architects, royal patrons and their KApAlika ministrants at 11th c.
>Khajuraho, others (naturally) wish to reconcile whatever picture may emerge
>with normative statements about _The Hindu Temple_ in general. [Good Luck!]
>
>Rather than speculate further about where that purported inscription is in
>Khajuraho (on the walls of a 20th c. temple or guest house, perhaps?) I
>conclude with an appeal to keep the Indology listserv unchanged. Can we not
>tolerate the the rough and tumble that is inherent when participants speak
>from such a variety of vantages, even as we learn to exercise the
>Trash-button on our e-mail applications with ever-more blinding speed in
>this age of infoglut?

+----------------------------------------------------------------+
Dr. P. Kumar
Department of Hindu Studies & Indian Philosophy
University of Durban-Westville
Private Bag X 54001
Durban
4000
South Africa
Tel: 031-820-2194
Fax: 031-820-2160
Email: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za







From ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU  Thu Mar  7 17:24:30 1996
From: ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU (ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 11:24:30 -0600
Subject: carvings of "samudramathana"
Message-ID: <161227023249.23782.4919477137019552430.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear members:
I would appreciate hearing about any pictures/carvings of the churning of the
milky ocean from any of the temples from India. I know of the one from
Ankarvat. Thanks in advance. Sincerely, -Narahari Achar





From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Thu Mar  7 16:36:07 1996
From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 11:36:07 -0500
Subject: unedited texts/NGMPP films
Message-ID: <161227023251.23782.17287050026432014795.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



I do not think the following information is correct. 

On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

> GRUENENDAHL said:
> > The Nepal-German Manuscript
> > Preservation Project has microfilmed practically all these 
> > manuscripts. The microfilmed material is enough to keep several 
> > generations of scholars busy, and it is available with relative ease.
> 
> .. to German nationals only.
 

Dominik said:

> I would love to know why this part of the German-Nepalese contract was
> agreed to.  Whose idea was it?
 


The Nepalese Government's idea!



I do not have the agreement between HMG of Nepal  (Dept. of Archaeology) and 
the German Oriental Society (DMG) right in front of me, but I remember quite 
well from my blissfull days in Kathmandu (1972-78) that it read:
"
"[mss films can be used only by] ....  the German Oriental Society.."


The background is as follows: It took the late Prof. K.L.Janert several 
years before the first agreement with His Majesty's Government/Nepal could 
be signed. There was too much resistance from "conservative forces" who 
feared about their secrets being exported to the west [NB: one fact 
missing so far in the ongoing 19th cent. discussion in this list].

In fact, while we had a very good working relation with the Archives 
staff, one or two of the pandits working at there tried to 
frame us constantly, (I learned very well to live with stupid rumours 
already then!!), and it took a lot of diplomacy to keep things going...

The compromise, to reach ANY agreement with HMG/Nepal, was to put in that
restrictive clause. The interpretation, however, depends on the mood 
prevailing at Kathmandu.  Mostly it means that members of the DMG can 
use the microfilms, sometimes it means that only "the DMG" can use them. 

The solution in both cases is: Join the DMG and you can get your films 
from Berlin speedily.


If you want to join the DMG, write to:

Bibl.-Dir. Dr. George Bauman, 
Orientabteilung der
Universitaetsbibliothek Tuebingen,  
Wilhelmstr. 32
D - 72074 Tubingen  
Germany.


If you want information on the MSS write to 

Dr. H.O. Feistel, 
Director, Orientabteilung
Staatsbibliothek Preussischer Kulturbesitz,
Postfach 1407
D 1000 Berlin 33 
Germany


I do not need to stress that many of the oldest MSS of South Asi are found
at Kathmandu, .. and quite often, in fact mostly, have not been used at
all. Such as the old (late Gupta style) Skanda Purana MSS which I pointed
out to Dr Bakker already in 1986 at Leiden, the Mbh, Ram., Candra
Vyakarana, unknown dramas (even in Prakrt), etc,.  etc... not to speak of
(Kashmirian Shivaite) Tantras (R. Gnoli was a regular visitor to Kathmandu
already in the Sixties and Seventies!), and of course Buddhist texts in
Sanskrit (I remmebr filming some 2200 Stotras...) There is no end to the
list. 

In short, there a a few MSS older than 800 AD., many from c. 1000-1100 
AD, and c. 2,400 in the Archives of before c. 1500 AD; the Archives alone 
have some 24,000 MSS, and the project has filmed well over 100,000; in 
recent years a large number of Tibetan texts from all over Northern Nepal
have been filmed as well. 

M. Witzel
Wales Prof. of Sanskrit
Harvard University

Witzel at husc3.harvard.edu





From Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za  Thu Mar  7 12:40:00 1996
From: Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za (Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 12:40:00 +0000
Subject: article
Message-ID: <161227023243.23782.14349193226987245756.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear Dr Martinez:

Sorry for the delay in responding.  I should have let you know that a few
days ago. Yes your article with the disk has arrived.  Here is the
confirmation of the acceptance of your article to be published in our
Journal of the Indological Society of Southern Africa in December 1996
issue.  Sorry again for the delay.

Pratap



>Dear Dr Kumar:
>I have sent you per s-mail the article with a floppy. Have you received
>it?
>with best regards,
>J. Martinez
>--
>
>=================================================================
>                  Dr. Fco. Javier Martinez Garcia
>Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft  |  tel.     +49- 69- 7982 2847
>Universit?t Frankfurt             |   (sekr.) +49- 69- 7982 3139
>Postfach 11 19 32                 |  fax.     +49- 69- 7982 2873
>D-60054 Frankfurt                 |  martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de
>=================================================================

+----------------------------------------------------------------+
Dr. P. Kumar
Department of Hindu Studies & Indian Philosophy
University of Durban-Westville
Private Bag X 54001
Durban
4000
South Africa
Tel: 031-820-2194
Fax: 031-820-2160
Email: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za







From Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za  Thu Mar  7 13:33:00 1996
From: Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za (Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 13:33:00 +0000
Subject: Vaikhanasa Aagamas
Message-ID: <161227023241.23782.15089679891153458046.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

Does any one know where (or in which library collection) I would be able to
find the manuscript of Ananda Samhita.  It is a Vaikhaanasa Aagama text.  W
Caland made some notes on it when he was working on it in the late 1920s.
I did obtain of photocopy of the printed (in Telugu script with a
translation into Telugu) text from Prof Witzel.  The text contains some
errors here and there.  I would like to compare the original manuscript
with the printed text.  I would deeply appreciate any leads in this
connection.

Pratap

+----------------------------------------------------------------+
Dr. P. Kumar
Department of Hindu Studies & Indian Philosophy
University of Durban-Westville
Private Bag X 54001
Durban
4000
South Africa
Tel: 031-820-2194
Fax: 031-820-2160
Email: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za







From mitra at aecom.yu.edu  Thu Mar  7 18:34:09 1996
From: mitra at aecom.yu.edu (Joydeep Mitra)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 13:34:09 -0500
Subject: Two Indological questions.
Message-ID: <161227023253.23782.3919032183352738162.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

1. In school, we were mostly taught about the Indus Valley civilization and
   absolutely nothing about the state of affairs in the then south India. I
   presume that since the sophisticated 'Thirukural'could have been written
   in Tamil by Thiruvalluvar in 0 B.C/A.D implies that there must have been
   an advanced society in place by then. Would you happen to  be  aware  of 
   the of state of affairs in south India at the time when the Rig Veda was
   probably written (~1500 B.C.) in northwestern India?

2. When and how did Sanskrit as a language develop?   I have also been told
   by my Tamil friends that the Tamil language developed independently  (at
   least initially) and is older than Sanskrit.  Over the years, some words
   (of Sanskrit origin) have indeed infiltrated Tamil. In  addition,  Tamil
   grammar is different from that of Sanskrit (I'm told).  When and how did 
   Tamil develop? This is probably related to Q.1 because, the  development
   of a language possibly coincides with the advancement of its mother society.

With regards,
A mUrkhA Joydeep Mitra.





From GRUENEN at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Thu Mar  7 15:02:37 1996
From: GRUENEN at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (GRUENENDAHL)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 15:02:37 +0000
Subject: unedited texts meriting attention?
Message-ID: <161227023245.23782.3088492968093272328.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


> > The Nepal-German Manuscript
> > Preservation Project has microfilmed practically all these 
> > manuscripts. The microfilmed material is enough to keep several 
> > generations of scholars busy, and it is available with relative ease.
> 
> .. to German nationals only.
> 
> I would love to know why this part of the German-Nepalese contract was
> agreed to.  Whose idea was it?
> 
> Dominik

I am not in a position to discuss the intricacies of the agreement 
that made this project possible. All this is more than 25 years ago, 
and I assume, both sides achieved whatever was possible at the time.

Well, it may be easier for German nationals. What D. Wujastyk did
not mention, though, is that everyone, irrespective of nationality,
can apply for microfilms from the National Archives (the former
Durbar Library), Kathmandu. In this way the charge for the copies
directly contributes to the maintenance of the institution that
takes care of the manuscripts. Not such a bad idea after all, is it?
At least I cannot see any harm in that. And it is still relatively
easy going, compared to the obstacles you sometimes have to overcome
in order to get mss. from other parts of the world.



Reinhold Gruenendahl
Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek
37070 Goettingen
Germany
Phone: 0551/395283

GRUENEN at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de





From KERNLIBRVN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl  Thu Mar  7 15:04:22 1996
From: KERNLIBRVN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl (KERNLIBRVN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 16:04:22 +0100
Subject: Elizarenkova
Message-ID: <161227023247.23782.10202210573894310273.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Mr. Thompson,

My colleague at the Kern Institute, Marianne Oort, keeps in touch with
Prof. Elizarenkova. She gave me her adress: 
T.V. Elizarenkova
Russia 125315
Moscow A-315
uL. Sameda Varguna
d.5, kv 49

I have transcribed it following a handwritten adress on an envelope, and I am 
not sure that I have got all the characters exactly right.
Perhaps you should check with Mrs Oort, 
e-mail KERNLIBORT at RULLET.LeidenUniv.NL.


Yours,


Ellen Raven 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Thu Mar  7 17:52:48 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 17:52:48 +0000
Subject: Vaikhanasa Aagamas
Message-ID: <161227023259.23782.15652790981557825062.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dr Kumar said:
> 
> Does any one know where (or in which library collection) I would be able to
> find the manuscript of Ananda Samhita.

V. Raghavan's _New Catalogus Catalogorum_, vol. 2, lists manuscript
copies in Madras (M. Descriptive Cat. 14758, M. Triennial 3477b, 3825
(extracts)), and Punjab University Library (II. App, p.54, by Marici).

The PUL copy, is part of the Woolner collection in Lahore, which has
been unavailable since partition.

Dominik


-- 

Dominik Wujastyk,
Wellcome Institute,
183 Euston Road,
London NW1 2BE.

FAX: +44 171 611 8545
email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk

For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page:
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html






From dplukker at inter.NL.net  Thu Mar  7 18:43:32 1996
From: dplukker at inter.NL.net (dplukker at inter.NL.net)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 19:43:32 +0100
Subject: Dr. A. Govindan Kutty, Leiden University
Message-ID: <161227023255.23782.6133539516692256765.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


>Can anyone of the learned members here give me the e-mail/postal address
>of Dr. A. Govindan Kutty, Leiden University, The Netherlands.
>He is a specialist in Tamil & Dravidian languages.
>
>Thanks,
>n. ganesan
>nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov
>
Postal address of dr. Govindankutty: Kern Institute (Leiden U.)
                                     PO Box 9515
                                     2300 RA Leiden

Dr. Govindankutty is nowadays known as dr. A.G. Menon.

Regards,



    Dick Plukker
    India Institute, Amsterdam






From GRUENEN at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Fri Mar  8 08:55:34 1996
From: GRUENEN at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (GRUENENDAHL)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 08:55:34 +0000
Subject: Vaikhanasa Aagamas
Message-ID: <161227023257.23782.4525599951545009423.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

According to the New Catalogus Catalogorum you can find mss. of the 
Anandasamhita 

1)  in the Government Oriental Manuscripts Library, Madras:
    Descriptive catalogue,, no. 14758 (20 cantos); Triennial 
    catalogue, 3477 (b), 3825
    
2)  in the Punjab University Library, Lahore:
    Catalogue, vol. 2 App., p. 54 (by Marici)
    
It may also help to enquire at the New Catalogus Catalogorum office, 
Madras University (next door to the Government Oriental Mss. Lib.) 
whether they have collected additional entries in the meantime.
(I don't have their exact address with me, but I'm sure you can find 
that out.)



Reinhold Gruenendahl
Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek
37070 Goettingen
Germany
Phone: 0551/395283

GRUENEN at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de




> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> Does any one know where (or in which library collection) I would be able to
> find the manuscript of Ananda Samhita.  It is a Vaikhaanasa Aagama text.  W
> Caland made some notes on it when he was working on it in the late 1920s.
> I did obtain of photocopy of the printed (in Telugu script with a
> translation into Telugu) text from Prof Witzel.  The text contains some
> errors here and there.  I would like to compare the original manuscript
> with the printed text.  I would deeply appreciate any leads in this
> connection.
> 
> Pratap
> 
> +----------------------------------------------------------------+
> Dr. P. Kumar
> Department of Hindu Studies & Indian Philosophy
> University of Durban-Westville
> Private Bag X 54001
> Durban
> 4000
> South Africa
> Tel: 031-820-2194
> Fax: 031-820-2160
> Email: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za
> 
> 
> 
> 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Fri Mar  8 10:50:44 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 10:50:44 +0000
Subject: Two Indological questions.
Message-ID: <161227023261.23782.8835492249937974598.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Joydeep Mitra said:
> 
> 2. When and how did Sanskrit as a language develop?   

I recommend _The Sanskrit Language_ by Thomas Burrow (London: Faber,
1973).  Also see _Indo-Aryan from the vedas to modern times_ by Jules
Bloch (Eng. tr. by A. Master, Paris: Librarie d'Amerique et d'Orient,
1965).

On Tamil, see, for example,  _Tamil Literature_ by Kamil V. Zvelebil
(Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz, 1974) ["The earliest corpus of Tamil literary
texts may be dated roughly between 100 BC and 250 AD -- p. 9."], and the
fascinating book _The relation between Tamil and Classical Sanskrit
literature_ by George L. Hart (Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz, 1976).  There is
a great deal else, of course.

Dominik Wujastyk,






From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Fri Mar  8 10:53:56 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 10:53:56 +0000
Subject: Vaikhanasa Aagamas
Message-ID: <161227023262.23782.14798254890123878912.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



> Does any one know where (or in which library collection) I would be able to
> find the manuscript of Ananda Samhita.

The current curator of the GOML in Madras is
        Dr S. Soundarapandian,
        Curator,
        Government Oriental Manuscripts Library,
        Madras University Buildings,
        Chepauk,
        Madras 600 005.

Dominik






From girish at mushika.wanet.com  Fri Mar  8 19:06:12 1996
From: girish at mushika.wanet.com (girish at mushika.wanet.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 11:06:12 -0800
Subject: Shabara Bhasyam
Message-ID: <161227023271.23782.17209453505313448962.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Two members of the list kindly gave me a reference for the
apparently sole English translation of this work.  I have
tried to order it through South Asia Books but they say it
is out of print.  Does someone know of a source where I can
purchase this book.  Thank you for any help you can provide.


>'SAbara-bhASya
>Translated into English by Ganganatha JHA, in three volumes
>Gaekwad's Oriental Series N 66,70,73 (1933)
>Reprint : Oriental Institute Baroda,1973

-----------------------------------------------------------

Girish Sharma
San Diego, CA
girish at mushika.wanet.com






From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov  Fri Mar  8 17:08:58 1996
From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 11:08:58 -0600
Subject: Tamil & Sanskrit: Prof. G. Hart
Message-ID: <161227023269.23782.10573014834795385929.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



April 7, 1995

These are recent postings in soc.culture.tamil by Prof. George Hart, 
University of California, Berkeley. I thought they may of interest to you.

Sincerely
n. ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov

*****************************************************************************

             Relations between Dravidian (Tamil) and Sanskrit

 
Actually, Sanskrit has many Dravidian syntactic features as well as loan 
words from Dravidian.  A few of these are very old -- even as old as the 
Rig Veda.  Clearly, Sanskrit came to be spoken as a second language by 
Dravidian speakers, and, as is common in such situations, these speakers 
transferred syntax from their native languages into the new language.  
Such features include the use of api, of iti, and of evam, and also, I 
believe, of certain compounds.  These ARE Indo-European words, not 
Dravidian, but their usage is equivalent to similar particles in 
Dravidian languages (e.g. Tamil -um, enRu, taan).  Prof. Murray Emeneau 
has written at length on this phenomenon.  The North-Indian Indo-Aryan 
languages are even more akin syntactically to Dravidian languages.  I 
have tried to show that many of the major conventions of Sanskrit 
literature, and especially of poetry, come from a Dravidian poetic 
tradition (e.g. the messenger poem such as Meghaduta, the idea of lovers 
suffering in separation during the monsoon, etc. etc.).  The fact is, it 
is not possible to talk about Sanskrit as a separate "non-Dravidian" 
tradition -- the truth is far more complex.  George Hart.
 
Presumably, the people who adopted Sanskrit (or something akin to it) in 
North India didn't have a highly developed literature -- there are still 
some Dravidian languages in N. India like that.  On the other hand, 
history is full of cultivated languages that have been replaced by less 
developed newer ones -- e.g. Elamite speakers started speaking Persian 
and Elamite disappeared.  People tend to speak whatever language gives 
them influence, prestige, and the ability to survive -- to some extent, 
English has this function in modern India (at least in some parts, e.g. 
IIT's).  Most areas of the earth have changed their language 3 times in 
HISTORICAL times (at least this is what I learned in a linguistics class 
at Harvard a long time ago).  I wouldn't say Sanskrit is Dravidian -- it 
isn't.  But it has many intriguing "Dravidian" features not found in 
other (non-Indian) Indo-European languages.  (Retroflexes, for example 
-- called murdhanya in Skt).  This stuff is interesting, isn't it?  GH
 
One of the most intriguing contributions of the Tamil area to Sanskrit 
is the Bhagavatapurana.  It is pretty universally agreed that it was 
written by a Tamilian and that it is filled with motifs and themes from 
the Divyaprabandha and other Tamil literature.  Its author also uses 
"Vedic" forms -- sometimes incorrectly! -- to try to make it sound old 
and hoary.  This work has catalyzed Bhakti movements all over India and 
is, arguably, one of the most important works in the Sanskrit language.  
An example of a Tamilism is the word avamocana, "inn."  This occurs 
nowhere else in Sanskrit -- it is clearly a translation of Tamil viTuti.  
On the other hand, the greatest poet of all Indian literature, Kampan, 
took his story from Sanskrit.  There has been an enormously productive 
interchange between Sanskrit and Tamil.  GH









From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov  Fri Mar  8 17:16:12 1996
From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 11:16:12 -0600
Subject: Indological quesions on Dravidian/Tamil history
Message-ID: <161227023268.23782.10239560306468336166.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


3/8/96


   Re: Indological Questions
  ***************************

Tamil is one of the Dravidian languages. Others are Kannada,
Telugu, Malayalam, Tulu, & some non-literary languages
of North India and more importantly, Brhui in Baluchistan.

English Sources:
*****************
R. C. Caldwell is the one who first wrote the book
about these languages & how they form a distint family 
different from North Indian/Indo Aryan
languages.  Murray B. Emeneau, V. I. Subramoniam are
other more recent pioneers.

As a starting point, Kamil Zvelebil's articles about Tamil
and Dravidian languages in Encyclopaedia Britannica are good.
Also see his, Dravidian Linguistics: an introduction, 1990, 156 p.

For relations between Tamil & classical Sanskrit literature,
see G. L. Hart, The relation between Tamil and classical
Sanskrit literature, Wiesbaden 1976.

A. F. Sjoberg, 1) Symposium on Dravidian civilization, 1971, University
of Texas, Austin.
2) The impact of Dravidian on Indo-Aryan: An overview
in Edgar C. Polome, Reconstruction of Languages & cultures, New York, 1992,
p. 507-529
3) The Dravidian contribution to the development of Indian civilization:
A call for a reassessment
in Comparative Civilizations Review, no. 23, Fall 1990, p. 40-74.
S. K. Chatterji wrote a lot about Dravidian substratum in Bengali.

The credit goes to U. V. Saminathaiyar who edited the classical
Tamil works doing a great service.
For beautiful translations from classical Tamil, called Sangam poetry
look at life-long efforts by the late lamented A. K. Ramanujan. He was 
a distinguished Professor at Univ. of Chicago. He won a Macarthur foundation
award for his translations. Especially, his Poems of Love & war
and also The Interior Landscape. To understand tamil stalapurana
trdition, take a look at works by David Shulman. Tamil Bhakti
has an enormous impact at a Pan Indian level. Indira Peterson,
Poems of Siva, Princeton, 1989.
Vasudha Narayanan, 1) The Tamil Veda, University of Chicago press, 1989.
2) The vernacular Veda: revelation, recitation & ritual, 1994.

For How the South Indian kinship varies from that of North India,
see T. R. Trautmann, Dravidian kinship, Cambridge university press,
1981

It has been theorized by generations of scholars, both in India
and from outside that Dravidians lived in India for thousands of years
prior to Indoaryans. Indus valley is an essentially a Dravidian
civilization. Several scholars have proposed that Indus script
is most likely written in a Proto-Dravidian language. See A. Parpola,
Deciphering the Indus script, Cambridge university press, 1994.
Iravatham Mahadevan, a well-known scholar, in a lifelong effort 
has used the Tamil Brahmi scripts (1st century b.c -200 a.d)
as a model to decipher the Indus script. (Few scholars think 
it is in Sanskrit. See the works of S. R. Rao.) I talked to
Dr. R. Nagaswamy, he also thinks Indus valley is mainly Dravidian.

I have collected over the years a big bibliography
of 16000 English articles/books & 70,000 tamil booklist
on Tamil/Dravidian/South Indian culturescape. 
Roja Muttaiyah collected and saved many thousands of rare Tamil
printed books from 19th century. But for him, they would have
been lost. University of Chicago and a Madras trust are building
a fine library in Madras in memory of him. Koeln University 
library has almost 40000 Tamil books. British library has
about 30000. If anybody needs some references, I will gladly 
give the citations on almost any topic related to 
Tamil/Dravidian/South India.

What I have understood from a general reading of the 
papers & books are:
Dravidian words are found in Indo Aryan from early times.
Some are even in the Vedas. All North Indian languages
follow the Dravidian syntax. In fact, the main difference
between Indoaryan & Indoeuropean is in their syntax structure.
Dravidian languages have a lot of terms from Sanskrit.
Among them, Tamil has the least borrowings. However, the syntax
of Dravidian never changed. In fact, it is the other way around.

This is on a linguistic level. On the level of literature,
there are many borrowings from classical Tamil. For example,
Hala's prakrit work saptasatI is influenzed by Tamil interior
landscape poems. The dhvany theory is very well developed in early
Tamil which is found much later in Sanskrit.

T. Burrow, A Dravidian etymological dictionary, Oxford university
press, second edition, 1984, 853 p.

An international bibliography of Dravidian languages and linguistics,
Madras, T. R. Publications, 1994-1995 ($ 30)
vol. 1: General and Comparative Dravidian languages & linguistics
vol. 2: Tamil language and linguistics. ($ 60)

Tamil, other than Sanskrit, possesses a large number of manuscripts.
Many of the Tamil manuscripts remain unpublished. Out of a total of 
25000, there are about 2500 Tamil manuscripts scattered in many 
libraries all over Europe. This century's great Tamil scholars
never travelled to Europe & they knew little or no English.
Some Tamil sangam work or atleast few important prabandham/talapurANam
will be existing somewhere, hitherto unpublished or thought to have been lost.

1) K. C. Chellamuthu, International catalogue of Tamil palmleaf manuscripts,
5 vol. 1995, Tamil university, Thanjavur.

2) A descriptive catalogue of Tamil palm-leaf manuscripts,
The first 3 volumes in 6 parts has come out, Madras. Institute of
Asian studies.

3) G. John Samuel, Palmleaf manuscripts in tamil and their preservation,
p. 85-100, Journal of the Institute of Asian studies, XIII, 1, Sep. 1995.

Sanskrit & Tamil are  the classical languages of India. The literature
and inscriptions are more than 2000 old.  The Chola emperor,
Rajendra's one copper plate Tamil inscription of 1040 A.D. is one of
the longest in any world language. K. G. Krishnan, Karandai Tamil
Sangam plates of Rajendra Chola, Archaeological Survey of India, New Delhi,
1984. Tamil inscriptions have been found in Thailand, Malaysia, 
Cambodia, Indonesia, ...
More recently Tamil inscriptions (10th century A.D.) have
been found in Egypt. R. Solomon, Epigraphic remains of Indian traders
in Europe,  Jl. of Americal Oriental Society, 111, 4, p. 731-6, 1991.
article on it. In Ceylon, Tamil Brahmi inscriptions have been found
that are dated in 2nd century A.D.

For an overview of South Indian studies,
Pauline Kolenda, Studies of South India, an anthology of
recent research & scholarship, Madras, 1985, 464 p.

Hope more and more students/scholars of India will take up the
study of Tamil & other Dravidian languages to enhance knowledge
about South India. Hinduism and Indian civilization is truly
a blending of Dravidian and Indoaryan cultures.

N. Ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov.

Archaeology:
B. Narasimhaiah, Neolithic and megalithic cultures in Tamil Nadu,
Sundeep, 1980, Delhi

R. Nagaswamy, Roman sites in Tamil Nadu: Recent discoveries
in M. S. Nagaraja Rao, Madhu: recent researches in Indian
art and art history. Delhi: Agam Kala Prakashan, 1981, p. 337-9.


Vimala S. Begley 1) From Iron age to early history in South Indian
archaeology in J. Jacobson, Studies in the archaeology of
India & Pakistan, Delhi Oxford & IBH, p. 297-319, 1986
2) Rome & India: The ancient sea trade, Oxford university press, 1991

L. Casson, The Periplus Maris Erythraei: text with translation,
Princeton university, 1989

R. Champakalakshmi, Archaeology and the Tamil literary tradition,
Purattava, Delhi, v. 8, p.110-122, 1978.

and so on....


















From martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de  Fri Mar  8 11:09:23 1996
From: martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de (F. Javier Martinez Garcia)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 12:09:23 +0100
Subject: article
Message-ID: <161227023264.23782.1532233587009721932.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> confirmation of the acceptance of your article to be published in our
> Journal of the Indological Society of Southern Africa in December 1996
> issue.  Sorry again for the delay.
> 
> Pratap

thanks a lot!
Javier





From raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu  Fri Mar  8 23:07:21 1996
From: raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (Narayan S. Raja)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 13:07:21 -1000
Subject: Temples & shoes (many languages) was Re: Khajuraho
Message-ID: <161227023274.23782.16738659181684847766.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>




On Wed, 6 Mar 1996 RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU wrote:

> I am glad to know from your message of 6,mar ,1996 that you 
> go to the temple for a sexy feeling . 


No, I also go to the temple to steal footwear.
As Julius Caesar has said: "Veni.  Vidi.  Givenchy."  

I'm guided by an ancient Sanskrit inscription 
that I found on the wall of my house in Srirangam,
embodying the noblest of human values:

   "AkAshAt patitam tOyam   yathA gachchati sAgaram
    sarva loka pAdarakshA:  pratigachchanti mAm tathA"


Or to put it in our mutual mothertongue, Tamil:

   "siRappu kettAlum
    seRuppu kidaiththathu"

Or again, as the Tamil poetess Auvaiyar might have 
said ("aaththich chUdi" style):
 
   "kAlaNi kayattEl"


Even Meerabai warns us from the sixteenth century:

   "pag ghunghru BAANDH Meera naachi re"
                 ^^^^^^
    
In Gujarati they greet each other:

   "Shoe chhe?  Saaru chhe"


And for the benefit of German Indologists visiting
Indian temples:

   "Pilger, ich hoff' du findest Ruh'
    vergesse aber nicht dein' Schueh'  "


Happy shoehunting.  Have a Nike day,


Narayan Sriranga Raja.






From robgood at mail.utexas.edu  Fri Mar  8 20:42:26 1996
From: robgood at mail.utexas.edu (robgood at mail.utexas.edu)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 14:42:26 -0600
Subject: MSS Depositories
Message-ID: <161227023272.23782.17157169386433472428.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues

Can anyone give me the names of the current directors and the addresses
(including PINs) of the Prajna Pathasala Mandala Collection in Wai,
Maharashtra, the Rajasthan Oriental Research Institute in Jodhpur, and the
Government Oriental Manuscripts Library in Madras?  I am attempting to
acquire photocopies of mss. of Vidyaranya's Jivanmuktiviveka archived at
these locations.
Regards,
Robert Goodding
University of Texas-Austin







From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no  Fri Mar  8 15:38:13 1996
From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 16:38:13 +0100
Subject: Critique of The Golden Germ
Message-ID: <161227023266.23782.4215837985132686813.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have tried to find book reviews/critiques of The Golden Germ by T. D. K.
Bosch, without success. Would anybody out there on the list happen to have
any suggestions?

Lars Martin Fosse



Lars Martin Fosse
Research Fellow
Department of East European
and Oriental Studies
P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
N-0315 OSLO Norway

Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
Fax: +47 22 85 41 40

E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no







From RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU  Fri Mar  8 23:24:22 1996
From: RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU (RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 17:24:22 -0600
Subject: khajuraho
Message-ID: <161227023276.23782.16046600293563242192.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Rabe ,
Your enquiry about where did i see the inscription i quoted from 
Khajuraho is / was seen ? Since this  same question was put to me
by some more members of the net , I am answering it on the net. Hope that
you do not mind it . That sloka ( verse ) was on the walls of the temple in khajuraho
juraho in a form that i could read . It was on the wall itself.
I did not get it fromany books    M.rajagopalan





From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Sat Mar  9 00:56:04 1996
From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 19:56:04 -0500
Subject: Changes in INDOLOGY??
Message-ID: <161227023278.23782.848410879515887375.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear Dominik,

Other than proposed by some, it is not necessary at all to turn Indology 
into a closed list in order to solve the problem of spamming, etc. 

The following option has not been considered:

The usual way to filter spamming out of mailing lists is to install a
"filter", a custom script which scans incoming mail for keywords, and
rejects a message if one or more keywords are found.Such scripts are very
easy to write and install, and many are freely available, as usual, on the
Internet. 

Such a filter posted on the SmartList mailing list a few months ago. It
filters out the us[Aual spamming, including the "Free one-year magazine
subscription" messages that are almost the only spamming I've seen on
Indology. 

These scripts are highly customizable. To solve some of the other problems
one could, easily, include such keywords as "khajuraho"/"chaos" ( etc.) to
turn away the more inane messages, -- in case it really becomes necessary,
though I personally would not advise to do so on the spur of the moment... 


So, *no need* to "close" the list, certainly not from a technical point of
view. Every mailing list and newsgroup on the Internet has to deal with
spamming, etc. but very few of them are moderated. 


I think this solves our problem.


Best wishes, 

M. Witzel














From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Sat Mar  9 01:26:55 1996
From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 20:26:55 -0500
Subject: Vaikhanasa/at Lahore
Message-ID: <161227023281.23782.2653214424859183791.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


I do not think that the follwoing information on Lahore is correct:

On Fri, 8 Mar 1996, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

> ....manuscript of Ananda Samhita.....
>  Punjab University Library (II. App, p.54, by Marici).
> 
> The PUL copy, is part of the Woolner collection in Lahore, which has
> been unavailable since partition.
> -- 


 
This must be the *Indian* perception. 


In fact some of my friends, Indian nationals included, have been there 
during the past 20 years, and have found the Skt. MSS collection intact, 
and the Pakistani Library staff very friendly and helpful.

Of course, the staff  had problems with (south) Indian scripts -- but who in 
the north doesn't? (and often vice versa, see Ksemendra's Desopadesa on the 
Bengali student in Kashmir, 900 years ago...). 

Even the PUL catalogue was still on sale..

<< I vaguely remember: didn't someone publish a somewhat mispelled item
from PUL, Lahore on this list recently, information received directly 
from LAHORE???>>


Thus, a visit to Lahore is worthwile, given the rich collection there;
much of it was collected by R.A. Sastry. 


Hope this helps all interested in the PUL collection




Michael Witzel (witzel at husc3.harvard.edu)





From y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu  Sat Mar  9 02:31:33 1996
From: y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu (y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 20:31:33 -0600
Subject: Gondawanaland BhAsha?
Message-ID: <161227023283.23782.14304658149025447524.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I read that the language spoken by some tribal groups in central India
(Gonda?) is related to the language spoken by Aborigines in Australia.  If
this is true--would someone please cite some research on this topic?  [If
it is not true, it it certainly a facinating bit of academic folklore.]

Thank you,
Yvette Rosser







From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Sat Mar  9 03:05:31 1996
From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 22:05:31 -0500
Subject: Gondawanaland BhAsha?
Message-ID: <161227023284.23782.3725932995196628681.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Thanks for another comic relief!

Someone seems to have taken the geographical designation of the 
pre-continental shift, jurassic Gaia seriously...

Dravidian (Gondi) of course has no relation with the Australian languages 
-- unless you believe the new trend, "Mother Tongue" linguists with the 
African Eve speaking "gondwani"...

Just take a brief look at, e.g. S.W. Wurm,(ed.),  Australian Linguistic 
Studies, = Pacific Linguistics,Series C- No. 54, Austr. National University
1979. (or ask our Indological colleague at Canberra, Dr. Hercus 
who studies these languages as well).

Of course some of the Austr. languages have retroflex (cerebral) sounds
(Wurm, p.  452 sqq.) , -- but so do some Scandinavians, Dutch -- and
Americans... 

Though the chaotic carnival is over since ASH WEDNESDAY, there still are 
3 weeks to go until the FIRST of APRIL!!!

Cheers, M. Witzel.


On Sat, 9 Mar 1996, Yvette C. Rosser wrote:

> I read that the language spoken by some tribal groups in central India
> (Gonda?) is related to the language spoken by Aborigines in Australia.  If
> this is true--would someone please cite some research on this topic?  [If
> it is not true, it it certainly a facinating bit of academic folklore.]
> 
> Thank you,
> Yvette Rosser
> 
> 
> 
> 





From y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu  Sat Mar  9 10:42:36 1996
From: y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu (y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 96 04:42:36 -0600
Subject: Gondawanaland BhAsha?
Message-ID: <161227023290.23782.187502352847506146.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>I read that the language spoken by some tribal groups in central India
>(Gonda?) is related to the language spoken by Aborigines in Australia.  If
>this is true--would someone please cite some research on this topic?  [If
>it is not true, it it certainly a facinating bit of academic folklore.]
>
>Thank you,
>Yvette Rosser

Yvette C. Rosser
---+-}---+-}--+-<@

Generate Ideas and Events to Promote Peace and Justice--
in YOUR OWN Community--Create & Celebrate:
                The First International
     -<@>-  DAY WITHOUT VIOLENCE   -<@>-
                   - APRIL 4, 1996 -
                   -<@>--<@>--<@>-
http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~iwork/peacetxt.htm
-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>

   "Peace is not simply the absence of war.
   It is not a passive state of being.
   We must wage peace, as vigilantly as we wage war."
              @>---+-{---+-{--+----  XIV Dalai Lama

"Let us put our minds together and see what life
we will make for our children." --Sitting Bull	
         				
<@> <@>  <@>  <@> <@>  <@>  <@>  <@>  <@>  <@>  <@>
\|/_ \|/_ \|/_ \|/_ \|/_ \|/_ \|/_ \|/_ \|/ _\|/  _\|/








From MDSAAA48 at GIASMD01.VSNL.NET.IN  Sat Mar  9 02:30:32 1996
From: MDSAAA48 at GIASMD01.VSNL.NET.IN (MDSAAA48 at GIASMD01.VSNL.NET.IN)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 96 07:30:32 +0500
Subject: Changes in INDOLOGY??
Message-ID: <161227023279.23782.15465280466535154579.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dominik,

I wholeheartedly endorse the recommendations of Prof. Witzel. The problem
is analogous to the debate in the USA on the V-chip to control violent TV shows
not suitable for children. There are all types of printed media; it is for
the discerning buyer to decide on what magazines he wants to pick up from
the news stand. So too on the internet newsgroups; the core interest group
will last out the transient spammers. Regards. Kalyanaraman.

>
>Dear Dominik,
>
>Other than proposed by some, it is not necessary at all to turn Indology 
>into a closed list in order to solve the problem of spamming, etc. 
>
>The following option has not been considered:
>
>The usual way to filter spamming out of mailing lists is to install a
>"filter", a custom script which scans incoming mail for keywords, and
>rejects a message if one or more keywords are found.Such scripts are very
>easy to write and install, and many are freely available, as usual, on the
>Internet. 
>
>Such a filter posted on the SmartList mailing list a few months ago. It
>filters out the us[Aual spamming, including the "Free one-year magazine
>subscription" messages that are almost the only spamming I've seen on
>Indology. 
>
>These scripts are highly customizable. To solve some of the other problems
>one could, easily, include such keywords as "khajuraho"/"chaos" ( etc.) to
>turn away the more inane messages, -- in case it really becomes necessary,
>though I personally would not advise to do so on the spur of the moment... 
>
>
>So, *no need* to "close" the list, certainly not from a technical point of
>view. Every mailing list and newsgroup on the Internet has to deal with
>spamming, etc. but very few of them are moderated. 
>
>
>I think this solves our problem.
>
>
>Best wishes, 
>
>M. Witzel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Sat Mar  9 15:17:02 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 96 10:17:02 -0500
Subject: Changes in INDOLOGY??
Message-ID: <161227023288.23782.14099864315520386312.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Michael,

You mentioned installing a filter to weed out the spammed messages from
INDOLOGY.  

>The following option has not been considered:
>
>The usual way to filter spamming out of mailing lists is to install a
>"filter", a custom script which scans incoming mail for keywords, and
>rejects a message if one or more keywords are found.Such scripts are very
>easy to write and install, and many are freely available, as usual, on the
>Internet. 

You make a good point, but in fact, INDOLOGY is protected already by such
scripts, and a great deal of work is done by the staff at Liverpool, both
manually and with automatic routines, to keep rubbish off our list.  The
existing filter weeds out most of the subscription requests to indology (which
should be sent to listserv), for example.

However, I am told that such scripts, far from being easy to write and install,
are actually hard to write (well) and difficult to maintain.  And they don't
catch everything.  Spammers get cleverer too.

So the solution has to be more radical, I'm afraid.  I'm still thinking hard,
and talking to the technicians about the best way forward.  But don't worry, I
hope not to make INDOLOGY unpleasantly limited.

Dominik 

--
Dominik Wujastyk







From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Sat Mar  9 15:25:24 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 96 10:25:24 -0500
Subject: Vaikhanasa/at Lahore
Message-ID: <161227023286.23782.10847437928848225475.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Sat,  9 Mar 1996 02:17:23 GMT you wrote:

>
>I do not think that the follwoing information on Lahore is correct:
>
>> The PUL copy, is part of the Woolner collection in Lahore, which has
>> been unavailable since partition.
>> -- 
>This must be the *Indian* perception. 

No, it is *my* perception.  I have repeatedly tried to get into contact by mail
with the authorities at the PUL library, Lahore, and I have never once receivied
a reply.  There may be a copy of the Vyadiyaparibhasavrtti in the library, and
in the 1980s I was understandably eager to include it in my edition of that
text.  However, I had heard from other non-Indian scholars that the MSS were
not, in actual practice, available, even when visiting.  I therefore judged
money spent travelling to Lahore as probably unjustifiable.  (Also, the one time
I tried to get to Lahore, I was refused a visa.  But that's another story....) 
I know of a Sanskritist who has seen the library in the last few years, and says
that it was neat and well kept.  But getting microfilms or copies, or working on
the MSS was not possible, I was given to understand.

Our mileages seem to differ.

Dominik




--
Dominik Wujastyk







From seanhud at europa.com  Sat Mar  9 21:52:00 1996
From: seanhud at europa.com (seanhud at europa.com)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 96 13:52:00 -0800
Subject: Sanskrit courses in India
Message-ID: <161227023292.23782.13509622916239313686.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Are there any intensive sanskrit programs in India that you would recommend,
particularly summer programs?  How about summer programs in the US?

Also, could anyone provide me with the email address of Professor Alex
Sanderson at Oxford?






From mbose at unixg.ubc.ca  Sun Mar 10 22:46:07 1996
From: mbose at unixg.ubc.ca (Mandakranta Bose)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 96 14:46:07 -0800
Subject: Sanskrit courses in India
Message-ID: <161227023296.23782.5232404316713200017.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 Alexis Sanderson is the Spalding Professor of Eastern Religions and 
Philosophy at Oxford. His address is:

All Souls College
Oxford OX1 4AL
England

Mandakranta Bose
Religious Studies
University of British Columbia

On Sat, 9 Mar 1996, Sean Miller wrote:

> Are there any intensive sanskrit programs in India that you would recommend,
> particularly summer programs?  How about summer programs in the US?
> 
> Also, could anyone provide me with the email address of Professor Alex
> Sanderson at Oxford?
> 
> 
> 





From gheil at cs.washington.edu  Mon Mar 11 02:36:50 1996
From: gheil at cs.washington.edu (gheil at cs.washington.edu)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 96 18:36:50 -0800
Subject: stereo tantrists
Message-ID: <161227023298.23782.7476846711956707050.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A little treat for those tantrists who are also into stereo
viewing. I know, i know, small subsubset!

http://www.scn.org/tl/anvil/stereo/sriyantra.html

For more stereograms, click on my initials - something for the
Irish too.

Speaking of minorities i would like to suggest that, from the
purely selfish perspective of a long time quiet lurker on this
list, that list input not be restricted to "professionals". A
more surgical strategy would be to cut off priveleges to abusers.
That way we would not all need to go through the hassle of
rejoining too!-)

-greg


>?From P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk 11 96 Mar EST 10:08:00
Date: 11 Mar 96 10:08:00 EST
From: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk
Subject: Jivanmuktiviveka
Reply-To: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Robert Goodding asked about mss of the Jivanmuktiviveka
It also might interest you that there is a copy of this work in Gurmukhi 
script with a Brajabhasa commentary in the Wellcome Library London.
Dr Peter G. Friedlander
Cataloguer of Hindi and Panjabi Manuscripts
Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine
183 Euston Road
London NW1 2BN
England
e-mail: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk





From y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu  Mon Mar 11 13:03:19 1996
From: y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu (y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 07:03:19 -0600
Subject: Munda & the Austric language group
Message-ID: <161227023304.23782.9205167779795797327.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I apologize that my message about "Gonda" languages vis-a-vis an Australian
connection, was sent to Indology twice.  (Sorry. . . . user error. . . with
the current discussion of abuses of Indology, this error was particularly
grievous. oops <g>;-)

I did find out more information to clarify my previous query:

"Most tribal groups in Central India speak Munda languages, which some
linguists classify as members of the Austro-Asiatic branch of the Austric
language group, which also includes the Malayo-Polynesian languages, which
range from Hawaii to New Zealand. (Father W.Schmidt first posed this
theory)."

My question is, is there reliable research on this linguistic connection or
is it a discredited theory?  Thanks for your help.


Re the ironic Temple Shoes message posted by:
> "Narayan S. Raja" <raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu>

The vision of ghunghru strung around Nikes is certainly a remarkable
example of high fashion hybridity.

pag ghunghru bAndha MeerA nAchI re

visha kA pyala RAnA ne bhejA
PIvata MeerA hAsI re

Log kahe meerA bahi bavari
saha kahe kula nAsI re

pag ghunghru bAndha MeerA nAchI re

---------
kem chhe?

Yvette Rosser

I hope that this sort of query, from neophytes such as myself, are not
considered:
bhegA hUA vish.
Thanks.







From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Mon Mar 11 15:35:19 1996
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 07:35:19 -0800
Subject: NCC office, Vaikhanasa agamas
Message-ID: <161227023307.23782.17818745663101824925.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In his message of 8 March Reinhold Gruenendahl wrote:
<the New Catalogus Catalogorum office, 
Madras University (next door to the Government Oriental Mss. Lib.)>

The present location of the NCC office is on the first floor (one floor
below the office of the Department of Sanskrit) at the U of Madras.  It is
a good 15 minutes walk from the G.O.M.L. The building which now houses the
NCC office is opposite the statue of Kamban/Kampan on Beach Road.

Interested individuals should write to either Dr. Mrs. N.S. Rugmini or Dr.
Mrs. M. Vishalakshi, Research Asst, New Catalogus Catalogorum Section,
Dept. of Sanskrit, Univ of Madras,  Marina, Madras 600 005. 

It should be noted that the NCC office has entries from ms. catalogues,
handlists etc. only up to 1934/1935. Many, many catalogues have been
published n the last 60 years. These catalogues are, on the whole, more
reliable too. Therefore, collecting the information the NCC team has
accumulated is only the first step for anyone wishing to conduct a good ms.
search. Secondly, almost all major Indian ms.  libraries have hundreds of
uncatalogued mss that are mentioned only in the accession/stock registers
and do not appear in the published catalogues because they were acquired
after the press copies of the catalogues were prepared. 

Mss are perishing in India every day as they probably are in many other
countries of the world. In the last fifty years, as pandits became scarce,
not only mss have been thrown away or offered to the rivers by their
descendants, the quality of the work done in ms libraries for identifying
ms contents has gone down. More works are now listed simply as 'a text in
grammar,' 'a text in Miimaa.msaa,' etc. , without spending much effort on
specific identification. 

ashok aklujkar






From Jayant.B.Bapat at sci.monash.edu.au  Mon Mar 11 07:48:43 1996
From: Jayant.B.Bapat at sci.monash.edu.au (Bapat Jb)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 07:48:43 +0000
Subject: MSS Depositories
Message-ID: <161227023294.23782.14088294260473692550.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> Date:          Fri, 08 Mar 1996 20:52:47 +0000 (GMT)
> From:          robgood at mail.utexas.edu (Robert Goodding)
> Subject:       MSS Depositories
> To:            Members of the list <indology at liverpool.ac.uk>
> Reply-to:      indology at liverpool.ac.uk

> Dear Colleagues
> 
> Can anyone give me the names of the current directors and the addresses
> (including PINs) of the Prajna Pathasala Mandala Collection in Wai,
> Maharashtra, the Rajasthan Oriental Research Institute in Jodhpur, and the
> Government Oriental Manuscripts Library in Madras?  I am attempting to
> acquire photocopies of mss. of Vidyaranya's Jivanmuktiviveka archived at
> these locations.
> Regards,
> Robert Goodding
> University of Texas-Austin
> 
> 

 Re: Prajnapathashala Mandal Wai address:
 I do not knoe who the current director is but 
 just write to :
   Mr.N.V. Nayagaonkar, Librarian,
   Prajna-Pathashala, Vishwakosha Karyalaya,
   Gangapuri, WAI, Maharashtra State.
  

   Jayant Bapat

> 
> 
____________________________________________________________________
Dr J.B. Bapat                                     Phone (03)9054510
Chemistry Department                              Fax   (03)9054597 
Monash University           e-mail:jayant.b.bapat at sci.monash.edu.au
Clayton, Victoria
Australia
____________________________________________________________________



 
    





From pdb1 at columbia.edu  Mon Mar 11 18:00:19 1996
From: pdb1 at columbia.edu (Peter D Banos)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 13:00:19 -0500
Subject: Munda & the Austric language group
Message-ID: <161227023309.23782.2492497850109286080.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, Yvette C. Rosser wrote:

> "Most tribal groups in Central India speak Munda languages, which some
> linguists classify as members of the Austro-Asiatic branch of the Austric
> language group, which also includes the Malayo-Polynesian languages, which
> range from Hawaii to New Zealand. (Father W.Schmidt first posed this
> theory)."
> 
> My question is, is there reliable research on this linguistic connection or
> is it a discredited theory?  Thanks for your help.

Yvette,
I believe that the idea of a Munda/Mon-Khmer relationship, and a more 
distant link with Malayo-Polynesian, is generally accepted; proposed 
connections with Vietnamese and Thai are more controversial, but they are 
serious and not crank proposals. If no one gets to it sooner I'll try to 
look up some references.
However the Australian aboriginal languages, which you asked about 
originally, are a different story entirely, no one I can think of 
believes that they are traceably related to anything. 
(I was tempted to reply to your original post with a reference to Prof. 
Jan _Gonda_, but I see that others on the list are better at that sort of 
humor than I.)

						-Peter D. Banos
						pdb1 at columbia.edu





From FO5A006 at rrz-cip-1.rrz.uni-hamburg.de  Mon Mar 11 13:00:27 1996
From: FO5A006 at rrz-cip-1.rrz.uni-hamburg.de (MACDONALD.ANNE)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 13:00:27 +0000
Subject: unedited text /NGMPP films
Message-ID: <161227023300.23782.2962563560281224079.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


    Just to set the record straight, the availability of microfilms 
from the NGMPP is not restricted only to persons of German 
nationality or to members of the Deutsche Morgenlaendische 
Gesellschaft.  In terms of the agreement between His Majesty's 
Government of Nepal and the DMG, the copyright for the materials 
microfilmed rests with the Nepalese Government.  
    For copies of microfilms and permission to publish them, 
all interested parties are therefore requested to write to:  

        The Chief Research Scholar
        National Archives
        Ramshahpath
        Kathmandu, Nepal
        
    As you are likely aware, a preliminary title list is being 
prepared here in Hamburg. Individuals wishing to order a microfilm 
would be best advised to contact us first. Requests (from anyone!) 
regarding manuscript titles, microfilm reel numbers, etc., may be 
directed to our address:

        NGMPP
        Institut fuer Indien und Tibet
        Neue Rabenstrasse 3
        D-20354 Hamburg
        Germany
        
    Whether one orders directly from the National Archives or 
contacts us, we would appreciate being informed of orders made since 
we keep a list of all manuscripts already ordered.
    For ordering assistance, one may also contact:

        The Director 
        Nepal Research Centre
        P.O.B. 180
        Kathmandu NEPAL

--- For recent information regarding the NGMPP, see "German 
Research in Nepal" in Acta Orientalia 56 (1995), pp.169-172, by Prof. 
A. Wezler (Project Director) 

Anne MacDonald
NGMPP
Hamburg





From pdb1 at columbia.edu  Mon Mar 11 18:16:03 1996
From: pdb1 at columbia.edu (Peter D Banos)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 13:16:03 -0500
Subject: Munda & the Austric language group
Message-ID: <161227023311.23782.15316420567241720287.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Correction:
It seems that the Munda/Mon-Khmer/Vietnamese grouping ("Austroasiatic") is 
generally accepted but _not_ the further link to Malayo-polynesian 
("Austronesian").
							-Peter D. Banos
							  pdb1 at columbia.edu





From magier at columbia.edu  Mon Mar 11 19:12:24 1996
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 14:12:24 -0500
Subject: event announcement
Message-ID: <161227023312.23782.10028974744512928701.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The following event announcement is being forwarded to your mailing
list or listserv from the Events Calendar section of The South Asia
Gopher. Please contact event organizers directly for any further
information.

David Magier (South Asia Gopher)

============
        RELIGION AND THE ENVIRONMENT IN SOUTH ASIA
             A Meeting of Concerned Scholars

Sponsored by the Southern California Consortium on International Studies, 
the USD Internationalization of the Curriculum Committee, the Department 
of Theological & Religious Studies, and the Graduate Program in Pastoral 
Theology

         Saturday, March 30, 1996, 9:00 a.m.-4:30 p.m.
      University of San Diego, University Center, Forum B
                 Open to the Public, No Charge

                            Program

Lance Nelson, University of San Diego, presiding

*  Christopher Chapple, Loyola Marymount University

   "Traditionalist and Renouncer Models: Toward an Indigenous
          Indian Environmentalism"

   Respondent: Lance Nelson, University of San Diego

*  Arvind Sharma, McGill University

   "Attitudes to Nature in the Early Upanishads" 
  
   Respondent: J.  G.  Arapura, McMaster University

*  Robert L.  Brown, UCLA

   "Attitudes to Nature in Hindu and Buddhist Art"
  
   Respondent: P. S. Jaini, UC Berkeley

LUNCH BREAK*

*  Vijaya Nagarajan, UC Berkeley

   "Women and the Social Construction of Bhu-devi,
        the Earth Goddess, in Tamil Nadu"

   Respondent: Kathleen Dugan, University of San Diego

*  J.  G.  Arapura, McMaster University

   "Nonviolence, Nondualism, and Ecological Ethics in South Asia"

   Respondents: Arvind Sharma, McGill University;
                P. S. Jaini, UC Berkeley

*  Lance Nelson, University of San Diego

   "A Few Doubts: How 'Ecological' is Religion in South Asia?"

   Open Discussion, All Panelists

*The University Center Deli will be open for soup, salad, and sandwiches, 
11 a.m.- 3 p.m.  Colleagues who would like to join the panelists for 
lunch, please contact Lance Nelson, lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu.









From KERNLIBRVN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl  Mon Mar 11 13:34:59 1996
From: KERNLIBRVN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl (KERNLIBRVN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 14:34:59 +0100
Subject: Critique of The Golden Germ
Message-ID: <161227023302.23782.9740618731829422199.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> From:	IN%"indology at liverpool.ac.uk"     8-MAR-1996 21:18
> To:	IN%"indology at liverpool.ac.uk"  "Members of the list"
> CC:	
> Subj:	Critique of The Golden Germ
> 
> I have tried to find book reviews/critiques of The Golden Germ by T. D. K.
> Bosch, without success. Would anybody out there on the list happen to have
> any suggestions?
> 
> Lars Martin Fosse
> 
> 
> 
> Lars Martin Fosse
> Research Fellow
> Department of East European
> and Oriental Studies
> P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
> N-0315 OSLO Norway
> 
> Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
> Fax: +47 22 85 41 40
> 
> E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no
> 
> 
The best way to find reviews of F.D.K. Bosch's The Golden Germ is by means
of the Annual Bibliography of Indian Archaeology, published at the Kern
Institute, Leiden.

The ABIA for 1958-1960 mentions:
Oriental Art n.s. 6/3, 1960:114-115, by Edward Conze;

The ABIA for 1961 mentions:
East and West n.s. 12/4, 1961:266-267, by Rita Taticchi
L'Homme 1/1, 1961:132-134, by Louis Dumont

The ABIA for 1962-1963 gives:
OLZ 57, no.s 5-6, 1962, pp. 299-300 by W. Kirfel

The ABIA for 1964-1966 gives:
Arts Asiatiques 10/1, 1964:95-99, by Arion Rosu

We are presently working on details of a project proposal to turn
the ABIA into a modern computer database in which one can quickly
and completely find the answer to questions such as yours (including
references to older material, going back at least to circa 1925).

Ellen Raven
Indologisch Instituut Kern
Leiden University

e-mail; KERNLIBRVN at RULLETLeidenUniv.NL

  
 
 





From KERNLIBRVN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl  Mon Mar 11 14:01:27 1996
From: KERNLIBRVN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl (KERNLIBRVN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 15:01:27 +0100
Subject: Critique of The Golden Germ - 2
Message-ID: <161227023305.23782.2847857729633378696.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I forgot to mention the reviews of the first, Dutch edition of Bosch's book
(de gouden kiem), which was published in 1948.

The ABIA for 1948-1953 mentions:

Phoenix 3, 1948:287 ff, by J.M. Hondius;
Eastern Art 1949:66-68, by E. Abegg
Tijdschrift Bataviaasch Genootschap (TBG) 83, 1949:145-158, by A.J. Bernet
Kempers
Orientatie, April 1949:54-56, by A.J. Bernet Kempers
Tijdschrift van het Koninklijk Nederlands Aardrijkskundig Genootschap,
66/5, 1949:595 ff., by C. Tj. Bertling
Geographica Helvetica 4/4, 1949:266, by A. Steinmann
Arts Asiatiques 13, 1950:118 ff., by Robert Heine-Geldern
Bijdragen KITLV, 107, 1951:67-85, by F.B.J. Kuiper

The ABIA for 1954-1957 gives:
Art and Letters,28/2, 1954:53-60, by J.E. van Lohuizen

Ellen Raven
Instituut Kern
Leiden University 





From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA  Mon Mar 11 21:06:29 1996
From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (RAH)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 15:06:29 -0600
Subject: Q: Devanagari email
Message-ID: <161227023314.23782.2364909334088128363.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

(Apologies for any cross-posting.)

Fellow Indologists and Hindi teachers,
For primarily pedagogical reasons, I would like to be able to send and 
receive email 
messages in Devanagari. The systems I use are UNIX, OS/2, DOS and Windows 
3.1. 
As far as I am aware, no such program exists for those or for any other 
systems. I don't have the computer chops myself to build such a program. 
Does anybody know if any such program already exists or is in the works 
somewhere? (Ideally, I would like to be able to mix English, etc. 
languages and the Devanagari script in the same message.) 

Hopefully,
Bob Hueckstedt

Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages
Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba
Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada
http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/asian_studies
fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797






From zysk at is2.NYU.EDU  Tue Mar 12 14:22:17 1996
From: zysk at is2.NYU.EDU (Kenneth G. Zysk)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 09:22:17 -0500
Subject: Address/email request
Message-ID: <161227023317.23782.11022558735863883786.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


I should appreciate it if you could give me the address and email of Dr. 
Karen Lang at the University of Virginia. Thanks, K. Zysk





From gheil at cs.washington.edu  Tue Mar 12 18:00:16 1996
From: gheil at cs.washington.edu (gheil at cs.washington.edu)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 10:00:16 -0800
Subject: stereo/sriyantra
Message-ID: <161227023319.23782.6894422289936285978.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Michael

>I got an error message when trying this address (copy/pasted
from your post on Indology):

http://www.scn.org/tl/anvil/stereo/sriyantra.html

My apologies. My excuse is i uploaded from windows so the name
was chopped to the (8,3) size. Now corrected. Many thanks for the
early warning.

>Looking forward to seeing it, and forwarding a workable address to my
Buddhist art class,

As long as you are going to have qualified critics look at the
Yantra i have a number of questions i have been looking at and
would appreciate any understanding that develops from their
reviews.

1)	Color. Texts are vague, listing plant names etc. Here are the
choices i made from the outside it:
C	M	Y	K
0	0	0	33
0	20	80	0
0	0	100	0
0	0	100	10
0	0	0	25
0	50	50	0
0	50	50	25
0	0	0	0
60	40	0	0
0	70	30	0
60	40	0	0
50	0	50	0
0	0	100	0
0	70	30	0

Additionally i intend of outline the inner most triangle with red
when i print it. Most people find the yellow almost impossible to
fuse because of its lack of definition.

2)	Construction. I have been making a collection of
constructions, illustrating their steps. So far i have not found
a correct one in publication. By correct i mean simply that there
are the right number of triangles and the figure touches a circle
in the right places.

3)	3D. The literature is even vaguer when it comes to describing
its 3D shape - assuming it truly is a 3D shape. Examples i have
seen are of two kinds. a) like mine are plates stacked atop one
another b) inscribed on spheroids with great circle arcs.

4)	Physical meaning. There is some discussion of Pythagorean
acoustics but not to the point of a definitive description.

-greg





From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no  Tue Mar 12 09:28:50 1996
From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 10:28:50 +0100
Subject: Munda & the Austric language group
Message-ID: <161227023316.23782.15774467789121946333.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, Yvette C. Rosser wrote:
>
>> "Most tribal groups in Central India speak Munda languages, which some
>> linguists classify as members of the Austro-Asiatic branch of the Austric
>> language group, which also includes the Malayo-Polynesian languages, which
>> range from Hawaii to New Zealand. (Father W.Schmidt first posed this
>> theory)."
>>
>> My question is, is there reliable research on this linguistic connection or
>> is it a discredited theory?  Thanks for your help.

If I am not entirely wrong, Australia lost "contact" - geologically
speaking - with the rest of the world about 25.000 years ago. We must
assume that Australian languages developed in isolation after that (barring
the odd Polynesian seafarer). Since languages change dramatically over such
long periods, all traces of linguistic connections with other language
families elsewhere should have been lost forever.

Best regards,

Lars Martin Fosse



Lars Martin Fosse
Research Fellow
Department of East European
and Oriental Studies
P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
N-0315 OSLO Norway

Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
Fax: +47 22 85 41 40

E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no







From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Tue Mar 12 19:07:49 1996
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 11:07:49 -0800
Subject: Summer Skt, summer mythology
Message-ID: <161227023321.23782.10155644184273292339.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The information I posted in February about the Introductory Sanskrit and
Mythological Literature of South Asia in Translation summer courses(2
Jul-10 Aug)  at the University of B.C.
contained the following statement: "International students should apply for
admission by 28 February. Applications from others must be received by 15
April. The documentation deadline for international students is 15 April.
For all other students it is 15 June. Telereg will be open for registration
on 15 March."

Subsequently, I have received several inquiries regarding the 28 February
deadline  from individuals who came to know about the course only recently.


Please note that the UBC admissions office does its best to accommodate
late applications if the documentation is in order. For students already
enrolled at other universities, the documentation includes a letter of
permission from the home university to take a specific course, an official
transcript and a filled-out application form. Late applicants would
probably be better off if they send their documentation with the words
"Attention: Ms. Mary Cooney, Associate Registrar" at the top of the
address. 






From jsiva at uclink3.berkeley.edu  Tue Mar 12 21:10:25 1996
From: jsiva at uclink3.berkeley.edu (jsiva at uclink3.berkeley.edu)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 13:10:25 -0800
Subject: Indological quesions on Dravidian/Tamil history
Message-ID: <161227023324.23782.6958029004305426160.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dr Ganesan,
Thank you for the extensive bibliography you posted.

A few questions (for anyone who could answer them):

>It has been theorized by generations of scholars, both in India
>and from outside that Dravidians lived in India for thousands of years
>prior to Indoaryans. Indus valley is an essentially a Dravidian
>civilization. Several scholars have proposed that Indus script
<more deleted>

Any current work on this anyone could recommend?


Also,

Any opinions on these two new books? I heard high praise from at least one
source. But he didn't seem exactly unbiased. I haven't seen them yet, am
wondering what people who have read them, thought of them?

_Vedic "Aryans" and the Origins of Civilization
by Navaratna Rajaram and David Frawley

_In Search of the Cradle of Civilization
by Georg Feuesrstein, Subhash Kak, & David Frawley

Thank you,
Jey









Jeyanthy Siva
South and Southeast Asian Studies
University of California, Berkeley

jsiva at uclinik3.berkeley.edu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      We who seek justice will have to do justice to others
                                                        - Gandhi







From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Tue Mar 12 21:48:38 1996
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 13:48:38 -0800
Subject: Temples and shoes
Message-ID: <161227023325.23782.10130556588538563008.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In a light-hearted message, Narayan S. Raja wrote on 8 March:

<I also go to the temple to steal footwear.
...  I'm guided by an ancient Sanskrit inscription 
that I found on the wall of my house in Srirangam,
embodying the noblest of human values:
"AkAshAt patitam tOyam   yathA gachchati sAgaram
    sarva loka pAdarakshA:  pratigachchanti mAm tathA">

Quarter 'c  of this verse is metrically not correct.

As coincidence would have it,  my hobby is to wander in Srirangam at night
and change the inscriptions found on its house walls. Unbeknownst to Mr.
Raja, the inscription he quoted was changed some years ago to: 
aakaa;saat patita  toya.m yathaa gacchati saagaram / 
tathopaanaha aayaanti sarvaa maam ii a-mandiraat // 

Through my nocturnal wanderings, I also managed to get the authentic
version of the much-talked-about inscription at Khajuraho. It goes as
follows (refer to our resident expert Richard Salomon for translation): 

tvan-netra-sukha-kaariidam asmacchilpa.m, na sa.m;saya.h /
bhavya.m divya.m ;siva.m kaavya.m paa.saa.ne.su prasaaritam //1//
yathaa sajiivataa.m yaayaan nirjiivapi ;silaa tathaa /
.ta:nita.m ;silpibhi.h ;sre.s.thair viga.nayya nija-;sramam //2//
bhartra ca ;silpinaa.m te.saa.m ga.nito na dhana-vyavya.h /
cintita.m naiva  kaalasya kiyaan syaad vyaya ity api //3//
kim etat prek.sakaa.naa.m syaan muhuurtam anura;njanam /
ity etayaa k.rta.m buddhyaa sa.mbhogaade.h sucitra.nam //4//
ti.s.tha, he pathikaatra tva.m nipu.na.m cintayasva ca /
ki.m kalaa dharmato bhinnaa, ki.m kaamo dharmato 'pi vaa //5//
naaya.m devaalayo vaastu kevala.m graava-nirmitam /
;sivo 'ya.m muurtimaan nyasta.h puras te tattva-cintakai.h //6//
yathaa 'siva-caritre.su dharma.h kaama;s ca sa.mgatau /
sa.myama.h sa.myamaabhaavo, yatitva.m patitaa, tathaa //7//
asmin mi;sriik.rta.m dvandvam asmaabhir a;sma-ve;smani /
sundare mahadaakaare mahaa-deva-nibhe 'dbhute //8//
tavaapi jiivana.m. paantha, ;silpaad asmaan na bhidyate /
;silpa.m ca ;sivto 'bhinna.m. tasmadd asi ;sivaatmaka.h //9//
maitad vismara, he dra.s.tar. maavamanyasva kaamitaam /
d.r.s.tim aa;sritya paa;scaatyaa.m vik.toriiya-yugotthitaam //10//
yathaa d.r.s.tis tathaa s.r.s.tir. dr.s.tyaa te mok.sa-bandhanau /
d.r.s.tyaa s.r.s.ti.m vyatikramya bhukti.m muktyaa vi;sodhaya //11//
raajaa vaa raaja-gopaalo gopaalo vavi;se.sa.na.h /
ima.m lekha.m pa.thed ya.h sa bhaved buddha.h sva-jiivane //12//

Good wishes.

Ashok Aklujkar, Professor, Department of Asian Studies, University of B.C.,
Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. Tel: O: (604) 822-5185, R: (604) 274-5353.
 Fax O:
822-8937. E-mail: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca






From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Tue Mar 12 21:48:43 1996
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 13:48:43 -0800
Subject: Dravidian (Tamil) Sanskrit relation
Message-ID: <161227023327.23782.15592820865006494061.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On 8 March, <nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (Ganesan)> posted two very useful
and balanced messages on the relation between Dravidian (Tamil) and
Sanskrit. In one of them, he  has, if I recall correctly, once again,
posted Prof. Hart's views. 

While I agree with the thrust (the two linguistic traditions are much
closer for a longer time than most introductory books depict) of Hart's
views, it seems important to me to bear in mind that much of recent
research points toward the desirability of assuming a 'linguistic area' in
India from a very early time -- an area in which languages belonging to
different families had begun to share each other's features. In this
situation, it is not as easy to determine syntactic borrowings and
borrowings of literary conventions as Prof. Hart seems to have assumed. 

An important article on the antiquity of relation between Tamil and
Sanskrit is: Sharma, K.V. 1983. "Spread of Vedic culture in ancient south
India." Adyar Library Bulletin 47:1-14.






From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov  Tue Mar 12 20:24:59 1996
From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 14:24:59 -0600
Subject: Jacqueline Kennedy collection
Message-ID: <161227023322.23782.16252858103441644898.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


3/12/96

      Moghul & Pahari Paintings
      *************************
  
I was watching TV news. They told that
the collection of late Mrs. Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis
are on sale. The catalog itself costs $ 100.

Kennedys collected many Moghul & Pahari paintings.
Hope the paintings reach a museum public collection so that
it is available for study. Does anyone know more about
the Kennedy collection?

N. Ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov






From girish at mushika.wanet.com  Wed Mar 13 17:46:59 1996
From: girish at mushika.wanet.com (girish at mushika.wanet.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 09:46:59 -0800
Subject: Wikner devanagari location
Message-ID: <161227023337.23782.7877263217585698699.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A week or so ago there was some discussion about a new TeX Devanagari
font on the CTANs.  I haven't found it yet under tex-archive/languages.
Could someone provide the full path to it.  Thanks.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Girish Sharma
San Diego, CA
girish at mushika.wanet.com






From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Mar 13 14:50:48 1996
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 09:50:48 -0500
Subject: legal aspects of ancient Indian medicine
Message-ID: <161227023333.23782.16705617999185585589.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	I am not familiar with the legal position of doctors in ancient 
India.  However, a great deal of social information concerning th 
position of a Vaidya can be gleaned from several different types of 
materials.  For example, the texts like Carakasamhita contain a lot of 
material regarding the role of a vaidya in relation to society, perhaps 
from the point of view of the medical practitioners, though it also has 
a lot of critical material about false practitioners, e.g. chapter 29 
of Suutrasthaana in Carakasamhitaa, p. 181ff, ed. by Jadavaji Trikamji 
Acharya, Nirnayasagara Press, 1941.  On the other hand, 
there are a lot of verses found in the collections of Subhaazitas and 
works like the KaliviDambana of NiilakaNTha, and the Deshopadesha and 
Narmamaala of Kzemendra which provide us by way of criticism of the 
vaidyas an opposite point of view.  Here they are often presented as 
cheats who are bloodsuckers.  Consider the following:
	vaidyaraaja namas tubhyam yamaraajasahodara |
	yamas tu harati praaNaan vaidyaH praaNaan dhanaani ca ||
In many parts of India, Vaidya became a caste by itself, and other 
Brahmans refused to have marriage relations with them.
	
		Madhav Deshpande

On Wed, 13 Mar 1996, Elmar Stapelfeld wrote:

> Namaste,
> 
> could anyone help me in finding literature on the legal aspects of ancient
> Indian Medicine? How was a vaidya socially graded? Could wrong and fatal
> actions of his be penalized? In what ways do the modes of conduct vary
> between those lain down in the ayurvedic text (especially Caraka) and those
> for example in the niti-shastra?
> The first steps of my research have not been very fruitfull. Yajnyavalkya,
> Manu, Kautilya only have a couple of verses. Besides a few general
> statements, also Indologist (apart maybe from R.F.G. Mueller, who is also
> very much repeating himself) don't seem to show deeper interest in medical
> law and the position of the physicians. Or is there really nothing to find?
> 
> Elmar Stapelfeldt
> 
> 
> 
> 





From rebecca at umich.edu  Wed Mar 13 15:56:33 1996
From: rebecca at umich.edu (rebecca ruth armstrong)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 10:56:33 -0500
Subject: position opening (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227023335.23782.9830236433229041196.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

To whom it may concern:

The International Institute at the University of Michigan has an new 
faculty opening. We would like to place this announcement in your 
Assoc. for Asian Studies Newsletter.  Please let me know the cost of this, 
my email is rebecca at umich.edu.
Please find the announcement below:

INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN

Position in Sikh Studies

The University of Michigan seeks candidates for a tenure-track or tenured 
endowed position in Sikh Studies, beginning in September 1997.  This 
endowed chair is intended to promote the study of Sikh culture, history, 
literature, philosophy, and religion, which expands the Universitys 
teaching and research activities in South Asian civilizations.  The 
appointment may be located among departments that include Asian Languages 
and Cultures, Anthropology, Comparative Literature, Film and Video, 
History, Philosophy, and Sociology.  Qualifications include a Ph.D. in an 
appropriate social science or humanities discipline, native or 
near-native competence in Panjabi, the ability to situate the study of 
Sikh topics within the broader study of South Asia, and the capacity to 
link Sikh studies with the theory, methodologies, and knowledge of a 
social science or humanities discipline.  Teaching duties, to be 
determined by the successful applicants academic background, will include 
courses which integrate Sikh studies with a liberal arts discipline and 
the study of South Asia, and may include the teaching of Panjabi.  
Materials received by May 1, 1996 will receive first consideration, but 
applications will be reviewed until the position is filled.

Send application materials, including three letters of recommendation, to 
Sikh Studies Search Committee, International Institute, 340 Lorch Hall, 
611 Tappan St., Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1220.  The University of Michigan is 
an affirmative action, equal opportunity employer.




*****************************************************
Rebecca Armstrong 
International Institute / Advanced Study Center
office: (313) 764-2268   e-mail: rebecca at umich.edu
*****************************************************







From elmar at philosophie.uni-tuebingen.de  Wed Mar 13 10:19:48 1996
From: elmar at philosophie.uni-tuebingen.de (elmar at philosophie.uni-tuebingen.de)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 11:19:48 +0100
Subject: legal aspects of ancient Indian medicine
Message-ID: <161227023328.23782.4086081683422447921.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Namaste,

could anyone help me in finding literature on the legal aspects of ancient
Indian Medicine? How was a vaidya socially graded? Could wrong and fatal
actions of his be penalized? In what ways do the modes of conduct vary
between those lain down in the ayurvedic text (especially Caraka) and those
for example in the niti-shastra?
The first steps of my research have not been very fruitfull. Yajnyavalkya,
Manu, Kautilya only have a couple of verses. Besides a few general
statements, also Indologist (apart maybe from R.F.G. Mueller, who is also
very much repeating himself) don't seem to show deeper interest in medical
law and the position of the physicians. Or is there really nothing to find?

Elmar Stapelfeldt







From d.keown at gold.ac.uk  Wed Mar 13 12:59:48 1996
From: d.keown at gold.ac.uk (Damien Keown)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 12:59:48 +0000
Subject: Conference on Ethics in Western Buddhism
Message-ID: <161227023330.23782.12902930667886034968.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

ONLINE CONFERENCE ON ETHICS IN WESTERN BUDDHISM

ANNOUNCEMENT AND CALL FOR PAPERS

October 7-21, 1996

Sponsored by The Journal of Buddhist Ethics

In view of the remarkable succes of the 1995 online conference on
Buddhism and Human Rights, the editors of the Journal of Buddhist
Ethics are pleased to announce that the 1996 online conference will
be devoted to the topic of "ETHICS IN WESTERN BUDDHISM" and will be
held between October 7-21, 1996.

Please note that there is no need to be CONTINUOUSLY available
between these dates, since the conference will be ONLINE, utilizing
the Journal of Buddhist Ethics World Wide Web site and the JBE-L
list.

1) Conference Papers

Papers will be published electronically in a special edition of the
JBE in advance of the conference. Hypertext (HTML for the World
Wide Web) and Abode Acrobat (PDF) versions of the papers will be
available. It is hoped that the proceedings of the conference will
subsequently be published in book form. The subject matter of the
papers may be of an historical, social, political, or philosophical
nature and deal with any aspect of the topic "ETHICS IN WESTERN
BUDDHISM. Papers should be around 5,000 words in length and must be
received by August 31, 1996. Please contact the editors if you
would like to discuss a proposal for a paper.

2) Conference Members

The conference will be a public one on the list JBE-L and anyone is
welcome to "attend" free of charge. To attend the conference you
subscribe to the list, and you may unsubscribe when the conference
ends. Comments can be made, and questions put to the authors of the
papers and to the panel. All comments from the "floor" will be very
strictly moderated for appropriateness of content. To provide fair
access to all participants, individuals may be limited to the
number of times they can offer comments during the duration of the
conference. Subscriptions can be taken out at any time before the
conference from now onwards by sending an email message as follows:

To: Listserv at psuvm.psu.edu
Subject:___________

SUB JBE-L (Your name here)
Example:
SUB JBE-L MICHAEL FOX

Subscribers to the list will be kept up to date with new
developments.

Enquiries about the conference, panels, and papers should be sent
to jbe-ed at psu.edu

The Editors
Journal of Buddhist Ethics







From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Wed Mar 13 14:18:29 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 14:18:29 +0000
Subject: legal aspects of ancient Indian medicine
Message-ID: <161227023332.23782.5049372073150844064.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


I had to give a lecture recently on "traditional indian medicine and the
state", and the only thing I was able to find along the lines you
mention was a brief passage in Kautalya's _Arthasastra_, in which
punishments are laid down for medical malpractice (4.1.56).  The main
offence seems to be a doctor doing something life-threatening to a
patient without informing anyone.

I too would be very interested in any more information along these
lines.

Also, does anyone have any evidence from Sanskrit or Tamil literature
about ancient plagues or epidemics?

Dominik Wujastyk


-- 

Dominik Wujastyk,
Wellcome Institute,
183 Euston Road,
London NW1 2BE.

FAX: +44 171 611 8545
email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk

For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page:
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html






From HaroldA at eworld.com  Thu Mar 14 01:04:42 1996
From: HaroldA at eworld.com (HaroldA at eworld.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 17:04:42 -0800
Subject: Temples and shoes
Message-ID: <161227023341.23782.14283122058663982331.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It's nice that this tedious, dendentious, voluminous thread has lightened up
somewhat. While quarter 'c  of 

"AkAshAt patitam tOyam   yathA gachchati sAgaram
    sarva loka pAdarakshA:  pratigachchanti mAm tathA"

may not be metrically correct, Aklujkar's emendation of  c & d to:

"tathopaanaha aayaanti sarvaa maam ii a-mandiraat "

makes less sense to me. Might the learned nizAcara provide us with the
analysis of the sandhi of the last pada?

Harold Arnold





From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Thu Mar 14 02:05:32 1996
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 18:05:32 -0800
Subject: temples, shoes, sandhi
Message-ID: <161227023343.23782.7321088547179138900.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

tathopaanaha aayaanti sarvaa maam ii;sa-mandiraat 
= tathaa upaanaha.h aayaanti sarvaa.h maam ii;sa-mandiraat 
= 'in the same way all shoes come to me from the house/palace of god (=
temple).' 






From filipsky at site.cas.cz  Wed Mar 13 18:05:10 1996
From: filipsky at site.cas.cz (Jan Filipsky)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 20:05:10 +0200
Subject: Subscription to TAMIL-L
Message-ID: <161227023340.23782.5375142518825909102.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Networkers,
I would very much like to subscribe to the TAMIL-L electronic conference, if
it is still in existence, but all my attempts to contact the 
<listserv at vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> have so far failed. Is the listserv no 
longer active or is there a queue of those wishing to join so long that it
takes more than 5 days to get through? Gratefully Yours, Jan Filipsky 

<listserv at vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>... Deferred: Connection timed out during initial connection with lsv.urz.uni-heidelberg.de.
>Message could not be delivered for 5 days
>Message will be deleted from queue
>
>Final-Recipient: RFC822; listserv at lsv.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
>Action: failed
>

Jan Filipsky, Oriental Institute, Pod vodarenskou vezi 4,
182 08 Praha 8





From filipsky at site.cas.cz  Wed Mar 13 18:12:34 1996
From: filipsky at site.cas.cz (Jan Filipsky)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 20:12:34 +0200
Subject: Reconstructing South Indian History
Message-ID: <161227023338.23782.16200857627800151399.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

CALL FOR PAPERS
Dear Netters,
I am commissioned to edit a special thematic volume of the Indo-British
Journal - A Journal of History, published by the Indo-British Historical 
Society in Madras, with the (provisional) working title "Reconstructing 
South Indian History" and I call upon all scholars interested in South 
Indian (Dravidian) studies, be it political or social history, linguistics,
literary history or history of religion, to contribute. I would like the
original research papers to concentrate on lesser known, even obscure 
aspects of SI history, which have something relevant to say about the topic 
at hand, viz. to contribute towards reconstructing the history (both early 
and modern) of Andhrapradesh, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Kerala. I would 
appreciate any contributions and suggestions. The papers not exceeding 20 
pages should reach me not later than by July 31, preferably by e-mail, or 
by s-mail on a floppy disc in a PC compatible format (Word Perfect, MS Word 
and the like). I am afraid we do not go in for Mac too much down here! 
Looking forward to your response, I remain, sincerely Yours, Jan Filipsky

Jan Filipsky, Oriental Institute, Pod vodarenskou vezi 4,
182 08 Praha 8





From lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca  Thu Mar 14 04:05:08 1996
From: lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca (lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 23:05:08 -0500
Subject: Wikner devanagari location
Message-ID: <161227023345.23782.707336230219272680.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

you have the wrong address. please try something else.





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Mar 14 11:31:55 1996
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 06:31:55 -0500
Subject: Temples and shoes
Message-ID: <161227023346.23782.16393404226433906091.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	After reading the long inscription "discovered" by Aklujkar, it
seems to me that the "scribe" has made some lapses in inscribing hrasvas
and diirghas.  I suggest that if Aklujkar were to visit the temple walls
at night again, he may find the corrected version of that great
inscription and report it to us.
	As for missing footware in temples, I have lost mine several 
times in temples in Pune.  It is one of the ways God makes the haves feel 
humble and vulnerable, and He rewards the non-haves.  Of course, as soon 
as I discovered that my footware was missing, I could always walk away 
with someone elses, with or without inscriptional support.
	Madhav Deshpande	

On Tue, 12 Mar 1996 aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca wrote:

> In a light-hearted message, Narayan S. Raja wrote on 8 March:
> 
> <I also go to the temple to steal footwear.
> ..  I'm guided by an ancient Sanskrit inscription 
> that I found on the wall of my house in Srirangam,
> embodying the noblest of human values:
> "AkAshAt patitam tOyam   yathA gachchati sAgaram
>     sarva loka pAdarakshA:  pratigachchanti mAm tathA">
> 
> Quarter 'c  of this verse is metrically not correct.
> 
> As coincidence would have it,  my hobby is to wander in Srirangam at night
> and change the inscriptions found on its house walls. Unbeknownst to Mr.
> Raja, the inscription he quoted was changed some years ago to: 
> aakaa;saat patita  toya.m yathaa gacchati saagaram / 
> tathopaanaha aayaanti sarvaa maam ii a-mandiraat // 
> 
> Through my nocturnal wanderings, I also managed to get the authentic
> version of the much-talked-about inscription at Khajuraho. It goes as
> follows (refer to our resident expert Richard Salomon for translation): 
> 
> tvan-netra-sukha-kaariidam asmacchilpa.m, na sa.m;saya.h /
> bhavya.m divya.m ;siva.m kaavya.m paa.saa.ne.su prasaaritam //1//
> yathaa sajiivataa.m yaayaan nirjiivapi ;silaa tathaa /
> ta:nita.m ;silpibhi.h ;sre.s.thair viga.nayya nija-;sramam //2//
> bhartra ca ;silpinaa.m te.saa.m ga.nito na dhana-vyavya.h /
> cintita.m naiva  kaalasya kiyaan syaad vyaya ity api //3//
> kim etat prek.sakaa.naa.m syaan muhuurtam anura;njanam /
> ity etayaa k.rta.m buddhyaa sa.mbhogaade.h sucitra.nam //4//
> ti.s.tha, he pathikaatra tva.m nipu.na.m cintayasva ca /
> ki.m kalaa dharmato bhinnaa, ki.m kaamo dharmato 'pi vaa //5//
> naaya.m devaalayo vaastu kevala.m graava-nirmitam /
> ;sivo 'ya.m muurtimaan nyasta.h puras te tattva-cintakai.h //6//
> yathaa 'siva-caritre.su dharma.h kaama;s ca sa.mgatau /
> sa.myama.h sa.myamaabhaavo, yatitva.m patitaa, tathaa //7//
> asmin mi;sriik.rta.m dvandvam asmaabhir a;sma-ve;smani /
> sundare mahadaakaare mahaa-deva-nibhe 'dbhute //8//
> tavaapi jiivana.m. paantha, ;silpaad asmaan na bhidyate /
> ;silpa.m ca ;sivto 'bhinna.m. tasmadd asi ;sivaatmaka.h //9//
> maitad vismara, he dra.s.tar. maavamanyasva kaamitaam /
> d.r.s.tim aa;sritya paa;scaatyaa.m vik.toriiya-yugotthitaam //10//
> yathaa d.r.s.tis tathaa s.r.s.tir. dr.s.tyaa te mok.sa-bandhanau /
> d.r.s.tyaa s.r.s.ti.m vyatikramya bhukti.m muktyaa vi;sodhaya //11//
> raajaa vaa raaja-gopaalo gopaalo vavi;se.sa.na.h /
> ima.m lekha.m pa.thed ya.h sa bhaved buddha.h sva-jiivane //12//
> 
> Good wishes.
> 
> Ashok Aklujkar, Professor, Department of Asian Studies, University of B.C.,
> Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. Tel: O: (604) 822-5185, R: (604) 274-5353.
>  Fax O:
> 822-8937. E-mail: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca
> 
> 
> 





From ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU  Thu Mar 14 15:34:26 1996
From: ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU (ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 09:34:26 -0600
Subject: Indology list ,Hinduja
Message-ID: <161227023356.23782.1124682676014040655.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Mr. Peter Gaeffke wrote recently:
> 
>It would be a great loss to those interested in South Asia when for what 
>reasons ever contributors to the List such as Mr. Achar would be removed. He 
>has brought up one of the central problems which plague recent Western 
>scholarship on India:
>

He is too generous. In his view,one 

>
>........... camp follows a vision that a serious attempt to discover the
>truth was made since the methods of classical philology and indo-european
>linguistics were applied in the study of the Veda and from there in the
>larger field of classical indology. However, this discovery of the truth
>and the truth itself are complicated and sometimes excruciating processes. 
>Nevertheless, useful contributions to a field which has advanced since
>enormously, has been made by the scholars of the 19th century. Mistaken
>judgments and egregious assumptions were and will be always with us 
>


 where as my view, which is in his opinion, 

"definitely 'studium' (partisanship) which easily clouds the view of the whole
picture and ultimately makes the attainment of something like the truth
impossible...."


Be it as may. I would like to submit that no one has a lock on truth any more
than others. It just reminds me of the story of  six blind men and the elephant.

He further writes:
>As to Max Mueller, the really interesting question is: Why would an 
>intelligent human being in his right mind devote nearly most of his 
>working life to the study of a text which he himself calls "childish in 
>the extreme," "tedious,""common place," etc. 
>
>One can say, of course, he did this to please the British imperialists 
>and his friends, the royal family and this would cast a serious blame on 
>his character.. 
>


The clue actually can be found in Paul Courtright's very informative article,
which tells about Wilson's competition, Rev. Mills.

Max Mueller had the missionary zeal (it is clear from his letter to his wife).


>But why then was he called Mokshamula in India and why took Vivekananda
>the great trouble to Visit him in Oxford?. 
>
This was in recognition of his genius

-Narahari Achar





From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov  Thu Mar 14 16:27:31 1996
From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 10:27:31 -0600
Subject: Male Ear Rings
Message-ID: <161227023358.23782.16091072093581550503.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



   Re: Male Ear Rings
   ******************

1) In Tamil, male ear rings are called as kaTukku or kaTukkan.
Female ear rings have many names - kuzhai, thOTu, kammal, curuL, thongal, 
kaathOlai, kaathaNi, ceviyaNi, nakai ..,

2) From 12/13th centururies to 1900 A.D., there are hundreds of
solitary stanzas, called "tanippATal" wherein male poets wandering
in countryside were awarded with kaTukkans by chieftains.
As a thanksgiving measure, the poets composed stanzas
extolling the giver. It usually says, 
"these bright ear rings were awarded by this patron.
And, they always do a great job!
They beat on my cheeks to warn sternly so that
I will never go to uncourteous & uncultured men even if
they happen to be rich". For tamil poems, look at any of
the editions of tanippaaTal tiraTTu as well as prabandhas.

3) I have heard male ear rings served a practical
purpose. Vijayanagar & later Nayaka times were rough.
In the constant warfare, those fallen on battlefields
were distinguished to be Hindu or Muslim
depending on whether his ears were pierced or not.
Then, cremation or burial decisions could be made.

4) I have heard from Tiru. Variyar, a great kathakalakshepam
exponent that ears look like the  praNava mantram in Tamil
and it is complete only if they are pierced.
 
Tamil Om.
             .------------.
            /              \
           /                \
          ()        o    .__)
              .-.   __   \ 
              | |  |  |   >
              | |__|__|  /
              \._______./


The dot ("o") over the tamil letter "ma" that makes "ma" to "m"
represents the pierced hole of the ear. The clustered O & ma
form the human ear!

N. Ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov






From magier at columbia.edu  Thu Mar 14 15:32:18 1996
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 10:32:18 -0500
Subject: Subscription to TAMIL-L
Message-ID: <161227023353.23782.15408876046913472313.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> I would very much like to subscribe to the TAMIL-L electronic conference, if
> it is still in existence, but all my attempts to contact the 
> <listserv at vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> have so far failed. Is the listserv no 
> longer active or is there a queue of those wishing to join so long that it
> takes more than 5 days to get through? Gratefully Yours, Jan Filipsky 

Does anyone know if the bitnet address for this list still functions?
(TAMIL-L at dhdurz1.bitnet)

David Magier





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Mar 14 15:33:01 1996
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 10:33:01 -0500
Subject: Temples and shoes
Message-ID: <161227023355.23782.12663983577592129666.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	And while I was despondent about finding the apropriate authority 
for walking away with someone else's shoes from a temple, I "saw" the 
following verse which is missing from all standard versions of Manu's Laws:

	sarvathaa nuutana.m vastu nirmaatu.m ne.svaro' py alam |
	ekasyopaanahau tasmaad anyasmai pradadaaty asau ||

	Now no one needs to feel guilty.
		Madhav Deshpande

On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Madhav Deshpande wrote:

> 	After reading the long inscription "discovered" by Aklujkar, it
> seems to me that the "scribe" has made some lapses in inscribing hrasvas
> and diirghas.  I suggest that if Aklujkar were to visit the temple walls
> at night again, he may find the corrected version of that great
> inscription and report it to us.
> 	As for missing footware in temples, I have lost mine several 
> times in temples in Pune.  It is one of the ways God makes the haves feel 
> humble and vulnerable, and He rewards the non-haves.  Of course, as soon 
> as I discovered that my footware was missing, I could always walk away 
> with someone elses, with or without inscriptional support.
> 	Madhav Deshpande	
> 
> On Tue, 12 Mar 1996 aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca wrote:
> 
> > In a light-hearted message, Narayan S. Raja wrote on 8 March:
> > 
> > <I also go to the temple to steal footwear.
> > ..  I'm guided by an ancient Sanskrit inscription 
> > that I found on the wall of my house in Srirangam,
> > embodying the noblest of human values:
> > "AkAshAt patitam tOyam   yathA gachchati sAgaram
> >     sarva loka pAdarakshA:  pratigachchanti mAm tathA">
> > 
> > Quarter 'c  of this verse is metrically not correct.
> > 
> > As coincidence would have it,  my hobby is to wander in Srirangam at night
> > and change the inscriptions found on its house walls. Unbeknownst to Mr.
> > Raja, the inscription he quoted was changed some years ago to: 
> > aakaa;saat patita  toya.m yathaa gacchati saagaram / 
> > tathopaanaha aayaanti sarvaa maam ii a-mandiraat // 
> > 
> > Through my nocturnal wanderings, I also managed to get the authentic
> > version of the much-talked-about inscription at Khajuraho. It goes as
> > follows (refer to our resident expert Richard Salomon for translation): 
> > 
> > tvan-netra-sukha-kaariidam asmacchilpa.m, na sa.m;saya.h /
> > bhavya.m divya.m ;siva.m kaavya.m paa.saa.ne.su prasaaritam //1//
> > yathaa sajiivataa.m yaayaan nirjiivapi ;silaa tathaa /
> > ta:nita.m ;silpibhi.h ;sre.s.thair viga.nayya nija-;sramam //2//
> > bhartra ca ;silpinaa.m te.saa.m ga.nito na dhana-vyavya.h /
> > cintita.m naiva  kaalasya kiyaan syaad vyaya ity api //3//
> > kim etat prek.sakaa.naa.m syaan muhuurtam anura;njanam /
> > ity etayaa k.rta.m buddhyaa sa.mbhogaade.h sucitra.nam //4//
> > ti.s.tha, he pathikaatra tva.m nipu.na.m cintayasva ca /
> > ki.m kalaa dharmato bhinnaa, ki.m kaamo dharmato 'pi vaa //5//
> > naaya.m devaalayo vaastu kevala.m graava-nirmitam /
> > ;sivo 'ya.m muurtimaan nyasta.h puras te tattva-cintakai.h //6//
> > yathaa 'siva-caritre.su dharma.h kaama;s ca sa.mgatau /
> > sa.myama.h sa.myamaabhaavo, yatitva.m patitaa, tathaa //7//
> > asmin mi;sriik.rta.m dvandvam asmaabhir a;sma-ve;smani /
> > sundare mahadaakaare mahaa-deva-nibhe 'dbhute //8//
> > tavaapi jiivana.m. paantha, ;silpaad asmaan na bhidyate /
> > ;silpa.m ca ;sivto 'bhinna.m. tasmadd asi ;sivaatmaka.h //9//
> > maitad vismara, he dra.s.tar. maavamanyasva kaamitaam /
> > d.r.s.tim aa;sritya paa;scaatyaa.m vik.toriiya-yugotthitaam //10//
> > yathaa d.r.s.tis tathaa s.r.s.tir. dr.s.tyaa te mok.sa-bandhanau /
> > d.r.s.tyaa s.r.s.ti.m vyatikramya bhukti.m muktyaa vi;sodhaya //11//
> > raajaa vaa raaja-gopaalo gopaalo vavi;se.sa.na.h /
> > ima.m lekha.m pa.thed ya.h sa bhaved buddha.h sva-jiivane //12//
> > 
> > Good wishes.
> > 
> > Ashok Aklujkar, Professor, Department of Asian Studies, University of B.C.,
> > Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. Tel: O: (604) 822-5185, R: (604) 274-5353.
> >  Fax O:
> > 822-8937. E-mail: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 





From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Thu Mar 14 20:09:25 1996
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 12:09:25 -0800
Subject: "Discovered" Khajuraho inscription
Message-ID: <161227023366.23782.14586604966063852676.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks to the diligent eyes of Professor Madhav M. Deshpande, I have been
able to discover the typos that remained in my earlier hurried copying of
the by-now-famous Khajuraho inscription. 

 (Hushsh! It is not easy to visit Khajuraho overnight and return to Canada
the next day to teach the Ma.ni-cuu.daavadaana and the Yoga-bhaa.sya.)

Here is the corrected version (most of the inaccuracies in the earlier
version were cases of typing "a" where "aa" was needed): 

tvan-netra-sukha-kaariidam asmacchilpa.m, na sa.m;saya.h /
 bhavya.m divya.m ;siva.m kaavya.m paa.saa.ne.su prasaaritam //1//
yathaa sajiivataa.m yaayaan nirjiivaapi ;silaa tathaa /
. ta:nkita.m ;silpibhi.h ;sre.s.thair viga.nayya nija-;sramam //2//
 bhartraa ca ;silpinaa.m te.saa.m ga.nito na dhana-vyavya.h /
 cintita.m naiva  kaalasya kiyaan syaad vyaya ity api //3//
 kim etat prek.sakaa.naa.m syaan muhuurtam anura;njanam /
 ity etayaa k.rta.m buddhyaa sa.mbhogaade.h sucitra.nam //4//
 ti.s.tha, he pathikaatra tva.m nipu.na.m cintayasva ca /
 ki.m kalaa dharmato bhinnaa, ki.m kaamo dharmato 'pi vaa //5//
 naaya.m devaalayo vaastu kevala.m graava-nirmitam /
 ;sivo 'ya.m muurtimaan nyasta.h puras te tattva-cintakai.h //6//
 yathaa ;siva-caritre.su dharma.h kaama;s ca sa.mgatau /
 sa.myama.h sa.myamaabhaavo, yatitva.m patitaa, tathaa //7//
 asmin mi;sriik.rta.m dvandvam asmaabhir a;sma-ve;smani /
 sundare mahadaakaare mahaa-deva-nibhe 'dbhute //8//
 tavaapi jiivana.m. paantha, ;silpaad asmaan na bhidyate /
 ;silpa.m ca ;sivato 'bhinna.m. tasmadd asi ;sivaatmaka.h //9//
 maitad vismara, he dra.s.tar. maavamanyasva kaamitaam /
 d.r.s.tim aa;sritya paa;scaatyaa.m vik.toriiya-yugotthitaam //10//
 yathaa d.r.s.tis tathaa s.r.s.tir. dr.s.tyaa te mok.sa-bandhane  /
 d.r.s.tyaa s.r.s.ti.m vyatikramya bhukti.m muktyaa vi;sodhaya //11//
 raajaa vaa raaja-gopaalo gopaalo vaavi;se.sa.na.h /
 ima.m lekha.m pa.thed ya.h sa bhaved buddha.h sva-jiivane //12// 






From magier at columbia.edu  Thu Mar 14 17:40:26 1996
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 12:40:26 -0500
Subject: event announcement
Message-ID: <161227023360.23782.5414170576206893315.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The following event announcement is being forwarded to your mailing
list or listserv from the events calendar section of The South Asia
Gopher. PLEASE contact event organizers directly for any further
information.
David Magier
===========================
Contact the Southern Asian Institute, Columbia University, (212) 854-3616 
for information or to reserve a seat at the symposium described below.

Bangladesh at 25: A Symposium
Tuesday, March 26, 1996    1-5:30 pm
Kellogg Center, 15th floor
School of International & Public Affairs
420 West 118th Street
Columbia University
New York, NY
                   
The symposium celebrates Bangladesh's first twenty-five years as a nation 
and highlight the untold story of the country's development.  Dismissed 
as an "international basket case" at birth, Bangladesh has continued to 
draw media attention primarily for its poverty and natural disasters.  The
successful initiatives and struggles of the people of Bangladesh in
tackling poverty and maintaining a democratic, secular and tolerant
society have generally gone unnoticed.  The seminar focuses on
macro-level trends in development as well as some innovative initiatives 
(e.g. Grameen Bank, BRAC, Nijera Kari, Banchte Shekha) in the fields of 
credit, non-formal education, health, population, human rights and 
women's empowerment.

1-2 pm     1. Introducing Bangladesh: a CD Rom presentation

2-3:30 pm  Panel 1. Bangladesh: The first 25 years.
           Chair: Prof. Philip Oldenburg, Columbia University.
           Panelists: 1. Mr. George Zeidenstein, Distinguished
                         Fellow of Population Studies, Harvard
                         University (Dilemmas of Int'l Development 
                         Assistance)
                      2. Dr. Nurul Islam, Res. Fellow Emeritus, Int'l
                         Food Policy Research Inst. (Economy: Past
                         Performance and Future Trends)
                      3. Ms. Roushan Jahan, Founding Member, Women for Women
                         (Society and Culture Reflected Through
                         Literature)
     
3:30-4 pm   Break

4-5:30 pm   Panel 2. Learning from Bangladesh
            Chair: Prof. Rounaq Jahan, Columbia University
            Panelists: 1. Ms. Jan Piercy, U.S. Executive Director,
                       World Bank (Grameen Bank Model and Its
                       Replication in the US)
                       2. Mr. Manzoor Ahmad, Assoc Dir, Program Div,  
                       UNICEF (Non-formal Education and the BRAC Model)
                       3. Ms. Susan Davis, WEDO (Women's
                       Empowerment Initiatives)
                       4. Ms. Barbara Crossette, Chair, UN Bureau, New 
                       York Times (Reporting on Bangladesh)

5:30 pm     Reception








From relpbc at emory.edu  Thu Mar 14 18:22:17 1996
From: relpbc at emory.edu (Paul B. Courtright)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 13:22:17 -0500
Subject: Conference on Religion in South India
Message-ID: <161227023361.23782.17412327680887593143.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


ANNUAL WORKSHOP
"NON-HINDU TRADITIONS OF SOUTH INDIA"
SNOW MOUNTAIN RANCH, GRANBY, COLORADO
Thursday evening, June 6 through Sunday noon, June 9, 1996

	This year's Workshop will focus on non-Hindu traditions of South 
India, their texts, conceptual systems, values, practices, architectures, 
social organizations, relations with other traditions, and media.  
Proposals for papers on any of the following topics:

*Aspects of Jain, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Dalit, and new religious 
movements in South India.

*Attitudes, dialogues, and polemics between Hindu and non-Hindu 
traditions, historically or in the contemporary situation.

*Religious dimensions of organizations and communities with secular or 
ethnic ideologies.

*Comparative studies of non-Hindu traditions in South India with other 
regions of South Asia.

*Religious practices in which the boundary of Hindu and non-Hindu are 
blurred.

*History and critique of the category "Hindu" as it applies to the South 
Indian cultural area.

	The Conference on Religion in South India seeks to provide a 
forum for new and exploratory scholarship in a more small-scale and 
leisurely context than is possible at large scholarly conferences.  
Participants make forty minute presentations followed by thirty minutes 
of discussion.  Ample time is provided during the Workshop for individual 
and small group conversations.  Many colleagues attend without making 
presentations in order to enjoy the scholarly community in a relaxed 
atmosphere.

	One page proposals for presentations should be sent by April 15th 
to Paul Courtright, CRSI, Department of Religion, Emory University, 
Atlanta, GA 30322.  Fax: 404-727-7597; Email:relpbc at emory.edu.  
Reservations for accommodations should be sent by April 30th.

	The Workshop will be held at the Indian Peaks Lodge at Snow 
Mountain Ranch, near Granby, Colorado, ninety minutes west of Denver 
International Airport.  Amenities include spectacular views of the 
Continental Divide, hiking, swimming, tennis, Rocky Mountain air.  
Accommodations are in cabins with three queen-sized beds per room.  Cost 
for the Workshop's three days will be $350 for a single room; $230 each 
for two in a room; $180 each for three to a room.  All meals included. 
Vegetarian meals are available.  Sorry,no discounts can be given for 
partial stays.  Transportation to and from Denver International Airport 
is not included.  Carpooling arrangements will be made at cost.  





From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Thu Mar 14 21:44:32 1996
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 13:44:32 -0800
Subject: Jaina concordance
Message-ID: <161227023369.23782.8741101321623621728.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In the context of the useful information supplied by Prof. Falk and the
kind offer of help made by him, I should mention that impressive work in
computerization of Jaina gaathaa literature and bibliography of writings on
Jainism (including Hindi and Gujarati writings, which are very important in
the case of Jainism but which rarely receive publicity outside India) has
been carried out at: Sharadaben Chimanlal Educational Research Centre,
"Darshan,  Opposite Ranakpur Society, Shahibag, Ahmedabad 380 004. 

Another promising place for computerized Jaina materials is: Shree Mahaveer
Jain Aradhana Kendra, Koba 382 009, near Ahmedabad.  -- aklujkar






From falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Thu Mar 14 12:53:54 1996
From: falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de (falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 13:53:54 +0100
Subject: Address of Claus Oettke
Message-ID: <161227023348.23782.16439928103088621413.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anyone know the addresses, private and/or office of
Prof. Claus Oettke?
Harry Falk
falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de





From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov  Thu Mar 14 19:59:25 1996
From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 13:59:25 -0600
Subject: Q: Tamil mss.
Message-ID: <161227023365.23782.13037624800340793725.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



          Tamil Manuscripts stored in Tibet??!
         -------------------------------------


Zvelebil quotes this: "Fortunately photostat copies of Tamil
works on cadjan leaves of the 12th century was made; The manuscripts
were preserved in the much more favaorable climate of Tibet. But, so far, 
they do not seem to be available for study" (T. P. Meenakshisundarm,
A history of Tamil literature, page 5, 1965)

Does anyone know where the Tamil manuscripts from Tibet or the
copies of them are stored? This seems to be very interesting
material for study. Do they contain Buddhist texts??

Thanks for any pointers,

N. Ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov





From rsalomon at u.washington.edu  Thu Mar 14 22:30:54 1996
From: rsalomon at u.washington.edu (Richard Salomon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 14:30:54 -0800
Subject: Temples and shoes
Message-ID: <161227023371.23782.90995375031908878.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



> 
> Through my nocturnal wanderings, I also managed to get the authentic
> version of the much-talked-about inscription at Khajuraho. It goes as
> follows (refer to our resident expert Richard Salomon for translation): 

Ashok and others,

For some reason I haven't been able to locate this inscription in my 
nocturnal wanderings through Epigraphia Indica.  What a pity that we 
cannot identify the ancient kavi who composed this little gem!  I'm sure 
that only he himself could do it justice in translation, so I 
must decline.

Rich



> 
> tvan-netra-sukha-kaariidam asmacchilpa.m, na sa.m;saya.h /
> bhavya.m divya.m ;siva.m kaavya.m paa.saa.ne.su prasaaritam //1//
> yathaa sajiivataa.m yaayaan nirjiivapi ;silaa tathaa /
> ta:nita.m ;silpibhi.h ;sre.s.thair viga.nayya nija-;sramam //2//
> bhartra ca ;silpinaa.m te.saa.m ga.nito na dhana-vyavya.h /
> cintita.m naiva  kaalasya kiyaan syaad vyaya ity api //3//
> kim etat prek.sakaa.naa.m syaan muhuurtam anura;njanam /
> ity etayaa k.rta.m buddhyaa sa.mbhogaade.h sucitra.nam //4//
> ti.s.tha, he pathikaatra tva.m nipu.na.m cintayasva ca /
> ki.m kalaa dharmato bhinnaa, ki.m kaamo dharmato 'pi vaa //5//
> naaya.m devaalayo vaastu kevala.m graava-nirmitam /
> ;sivo 'ya.m muurtimaan nyasta.h puras te tattva-cintakai.h //6//
> yathaa 'siva-caritre.su dharma.h kaama;s ca sa.mgatau /
> sa.myama.h sa.myamaabhaavo, yatitva.m patitaa, tathaa //7//
> asmin mi;sriik.rta.m dvandvam asmaabhir a;sma-ve;smani /
> sundare mahadaakaare mahaa-deva-nibhe 'dbhute //8//
> tavaapi jiivana.m. paantha, ;silpaad asmaan na bhidyate /
> ;silpa.m ca ;sivto 'bhinna.m. tasmadd asi ;sivaatmaka.h //9//
> maitad vismara, he dra.s.tar. maavamanyasva kaamitaam /
> d.r.s.tim aa;sritya paa;scaatyaa.m vik.toriiya-yugotthitaam //10//
> yathaa d.r.s.tis tathaa s.r.s.tir. dr.s.tyaa te mok.sa-bandhanau /
> d.r.s.tyaa s.r.s.ti.m vyatikramya bhukti.m muktyaa vi;sodhaya //11//
> raajaa vaa raaja-gopaalo gopaalo vavi;se.sa.na.h /
> ima.m lekha.m pa.thed ya.h sa bhaved buddha.h sva-jiivane //12//
> 
> Good wishes.
> 
> Ashok Aklujkar, Professor, Department of Asian Studies, University of B.C.,
> Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. Tel: O: (604) 822-5185, R: (604) 274-5353.
>  Fax O:
> 822-8937. E-mail: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca
> 
> 
> 





From falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Thu Mar 14 13:34:27 1996
From: falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de (falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 14:34:27 +0100
Subject: Vaikhanasa/at Lahore
Message-ID: <161227023350.23782.7355220806058218417.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I must second Michael Witzel. Last October I payed the PUL a visit
and was shown the shelves where the mss are kept. Working with the mss
would be allowed without restrictions, I was told by the chief
librarian, who was helpful in every respect.

Harry Falk (falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de)





From falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Thu Mar 14 15:14:59 1996
From: falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de (falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 16:14:59 +0100
Subject: Jaina concordance
Message-ID: <161227023351.23782.3262362277194604600.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Starting in the 70s Profs. K. Bruhn and C.B. Tripathi began
preparing a concordance of stanza padas of the Jaina canonical and
post-canonical texts. This work resulted in a huge collection of
file cards. Except for rare occasions this collection is unused
by research scholars. I want to draw your attention to this
collection and offer our services in case you look for parallels
of stanzas or need to trace words - which have to have their place
at the beginning of a stanza.
The project and the texts covered have been described in
Beitraege zur Indienforschung - Ernst Waldschmidt FS; Berlin 1977,
pp. 67-80.
Any search would result in a series of file cards which could
be copied and faxed to the enquiring party.
Fax to 0049-30-838-4775
or email to me

Harry Falk (falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de)






From mgansten at sbbs.se  Thu Mar 14 19:00:42 1996
From: mgansten at sbbs.se (mgansten at sbbs.se)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 20:00:42 +0100
Subject: Address of Claus Oetke
Message-ID: <161227023363.23782.2542904170637404949.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Does anyone know the addresses, private and/or office of
>Prof. Claus Oettke?
>Harry Falk
>falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de

Claus Oetke
Avd. for indologi
Stockholms universitet
106 91 Stockholm
Sweden

I believe you can also reach him by e-mail at <claus.oetke at orient.su.se>.

Martin Gansten



>?From D-JOHN4 at vm1.spcs.umn.edu 14 96 Mar CST 13:03:58
Date: 14 Mar 96 13:03:58 CST
From: Donald C Johnson <D-JOHN4 at vm1.spcs.umn.edu>
Subject: Reconstructing South Indian History

Prof. Filipsky,
You mention that you are editing the Indo-British Journal.  Is this a new
journal or has the Indo-British Review changed its name?  I could find no
bibliographic verification of the Indo-British Journal.
Donald Clay Johnson





From aditya at icanect.net  Thu Mar 14 21:30:58 1996
From: aditya at icanect.net (aditya at icanect.net)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 21:30:58 +0000
Subject: Male Ear Rings
Message-ID: <161227023368.23782.7138031222593057825.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (Ganesan)  has  recently written as
follows:

>1) In Tamil, male ear rings are called as kaTukku or kaTukkan.
>Female ear rings have many names - kuzhai, thOTu, kammal, curuL, thongal, 
>kaathOlai, kaathaNi, ceviyaNi, nakai ..,
I understand they are also called Kundala in Sanskrit and ear-piercing
is still counted as one of the 16 sanskars among Hindus.
Ear piercing for males was considered as important an event as
circumcision is among the Jews.
Have a nice day. 
---------------
Aditya Mishra  
http://www.icanect.net/~aditya   
***********************************************************
The opinions expressed herein are continually mutating and*
might have already been changed  by the time you read them* 
owing to the more recent information that became available*
***********************************************************





From lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca  Fri Mar 15 03:21:21 1996
From: lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca (lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 22:21:21 -0500
Subject: Temples and shoes
Message-ID: <161227023375.23782.14898373091905252012.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

you have the wrong address.  Please try something else.





From aditya at icanect.net  Fri Mar 15 00:18:41 1996
From: aditya at icanect.net (aditya at icanect.net)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 00:18:41 +0000
Subject: Male Ear Rings
Message-ID: <161227023373.23782.13674887163597728452.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It was stated that:
>3) I have heard male ear rings served a practical
>purpose. Vijayanagar & later Nayaka times were rough.
>In the constant warfare, those fallen on battlefields
>were distinguished to be Hindu or Muslim
>depending on whether his ears were pierced or not.
>Then, cremation or burial decisions could be made.
It is some kind of an urban myth, since the muslims were/are
always circumcised and it was far easier to spot them than 
Hindus with pierced ears.
Piercing of ears was custom among with long tradition and
has nothing to do with muslims.
Have a nice day. 
---------------
Aditya Mishra  
http://www.icanect.net/~aditya   
***********************************************************
The opinions expressed herein are continually mutating and*
might have already been changed  by the time you read them* 
owing to the more recent information that became available*
***********************************************************





From mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com  Fri Mar 15 08:39:49 1996
From: mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com (mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 00:39:49 -0800
Subject: Suggestion on what computer to buy
Message-ID: <161227023377.23782.7316818402289230696.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


I received this request from Dr. M.A. Lakshmi Tatachar,
director of the Academy of Sanskrit Research in 
Melkote, Karnataka.  They are involved in publishing
critical editions of the major works of the Visistadvaita 
school of Vedanta philosophy.  

Please read this over and respond to me (mani at sgi.com)
or to him directly. 

I greatly appreciate your help.

Thanks,
Mani Varadarajan 

---

From: "M.A.Laksmitatachar" <tatachar at asrm.ernet.in>
Subject: Compurers
Message-Id: <A.825123483 at asrm.ernet.in>

Dear friends,
We  are proposing to purchase a few computers for our  desk-
top-publishing  system. We have a fund of Rs.3.00 lakhs for  this 
purpose. 

We  print around 2500 pages per year in Devanagari,  English  
and Kannda scripts.  At present we have one LC II, one LaserWrit
er Pro 600, Mac SE for DTP work.  Generally we don't have  graph
ics  in our publications.  Initially we had planned  to  purchase 
APPLE  MACINTOSH  LC 475 2 Nos. and two Nos. IBM PC 486  SX.  Now 
that these machines are phased out, we are rethinking reg. the
models.   Please suggest whether we can go in for Apple power book
range and IBM pentiums and scanners.  We also need softwares like 
PageMaker  for  IBM & MAC (latest version) &  font  packages  for 
Kannada  and  Devanagari scripts.  At present, our  need  is  for 
desk-top-publishing and programming only.  

We would be obliged if any of the members help us by getting 
the literature and prices of latest MAC computers, laserwriter  & 
inkjets,  scanners, software packages like PageMaker,  multi-lin
gual (Indian) fonts etc.  at the earliest.
         
We  had purchased the existing computers without any  expert 
consultation.   Now that we have access to experts like  you,  we 
want to purchase latest & reliable computers best suited for  our 
needs.  Hence this request.

M.A. Lakshmithathachar
Director, Academy of Sanskrit Research
Melkote 571 431 Karnataka India
Ph: (08232) 38741 (O) 38742 (R)






From mm383 at columbia.edu  Fri Mar 15 14:56:43 1996
From: mm383 at columbia.edu (Mary McGee)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 09:56:43 -0500
Subject: Hinduja Center at Columbia
Message-ID: <161227023382.23782.17573439305058686385.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear Colleagues,

Recent postings on the Indology network provide an opportunity 
for me to tell you more about the goals and undertakings of the 
Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center at Columbia University, 
which was inaugurated here in 1994.  I joined the Columbia 
University faculty in July of 1995, at which time I assumed the 
directorship of the Hinduja Center.  According to the 
memorandum of understanding agreed upon by Columbia University 
and the donor, the aim of the Center is to study Indian 
traditions of knowledge from the Vedas up to modern times and 
to promote research of academic excellence relevant to 
contemporary issues.  Concurrent with the Center's 
establishment,  four working groups were set up to pursue 
research centered around particular issues of contemporary 
concern: health, science, gender, and conflict management; a 
fifth working group has focused on the role of scriptural 
authority in various religious communities in India.  The 
research of the Center is not limited to these concerns, but 
our efforts during the first five years are concentrated on 
these particular issues.  

Through academic research and teaching, seminars, educational 
workshops, publications, and outreach, the Hinduja Center at 
Columbia seeks to foster an environment in which research 
scholars can pursue the contributions of various Indian 
communities to human civilization, while investigating how 
those contributions may provide us with a better understanding 
of as well as possible strategies for dealing with problems 
present in many of our cultures today, such as illness, 
violence, and intolerance.  Our activities are not limited to a 
focus on one particular body of texts or one particular 
religious tradition and the research of scholars involved in 
our various projects draws on many resources to advance their 
scholarship and our understanding of the pluralism of Indian 
traditions.  Much of the Hinduja Center's research is channeled 
through its small working groups, which draw together scholars 
with shared concerns and enable them to advance their research 
collaboratively.  

In addition to our research activities and educational outreach 
programs, the Hinduja Center funds two faculty positions at 
Columbia, one in Sanskrit and one in classical Hinduism, and 
also offers one post-doctoral fellowship.  It co-sponsors with 
the Columbia University Seminars Program a monthly seminar on 
texts and traditions of India and funds a project that is 
preparing an on-line catalogue of Indic manuscripts in the 
Columbia Library collection.  Announcements about our 
conferences and lectures are usually posted on the South Asia 
Gopher and sometimes on Indology; summaries of the University 
Seminar series are also available on the South Asia Gopher.  We 
welcome inquires about our Center and its endeavors; contact us 
_directly_ (not via Indology) at dhirc at columbia.edu or at 
Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center, 1102 International 
Affairs Building, 420 W. 118th St., Columbia University, New 
York, NY 10027.  


Mary McGee, Director
Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center
Columbia University






From strnad at site.cas.cz  Fri Mar 15 09:33:02 1996
From: strnad at site.cas.cz (Jaroslav Strnad)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 11:33:02 +0200
Subject: legal aspects of ancient Indian medicine
Message-ID: <161227023379.23782.17873140690626407394.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Basic information and useful bibliography can be found in:
A.L. Basham, The Practice of Medicine in Ancient and Medieval India. In: 
Charles Leslie (ed.), Asian Medical Systems: A Comparative Study. 
University of California Press,  Berkeley etc. 1976, pp. 18-43.

_____________________________
Jaroslav Strnad
Oriental Institute
Czech Academy of Sciences
Pod vodarenskou vezi 4
182 08 Praha 8
CZECH REPUBLIC
e-mail: strnad at orient.cas.cz
______________________________





From g.v.simson at easteur-orient.uio.no  Fri Mar 15 12:05:31 1996
From: g.v.simson at easteur-orient.uio.no (g.v.simson at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 14:05:31 +0200
Subject: Address of Claus Oettke
Message-ID: <161227023381.23782.12373666860805978619.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Answering Harry Falk's question, Claus Oetke's address is:
University of  Stockholm,
Institute of Oriental Languages
S-106 91 Stockholm (Sweden)

Oetke's E-mail address is perhaps not yet in operation,
for the time being communicate via William.Smith at orient.su.se

His private address is not known to me.



Professor Georg von Simson
University of Oslo
Department of East European and Oriental Studies
Box 1030, Blindern
0315 Oslo, Norway







From lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca  Fri Mar 15 19:58:16 1996
From: lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca (lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 14:58:16 -0500
Subject: Suggestion on what computer to buy
Message-ID: <161227023389.23782.1224263875670739715.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

you have the wrong address.  please try something else.





From lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca  Fri Mar 15 20:40:51 1996
From: lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca (lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 15:40:51 -0500
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023390.23782.5555862225632481005.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

you have the wrong address.  please try something else.





From pdb1 at columbia.edu  Fri Mar 15 20:51:55 1996
From: pdb1 at columbia.edu (Peter D Banos)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 15:51:55 -0500
Subject: Suggestion on what computer to buy
Message-ID: <161227023392.23782.12241604859958959586.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Fri, 15 Mar 1996 lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca wrote:

> you have the wrong address.  please try something else.

Guys,
This is the third time I've seen this message from poor lgriff.
Isn't it about time the listmanagers took notice and did something?

						-Peter D. Banos
						pdb1 at columbia.edu
"The noise thereof sheweth concerning it,
  the cattle also concerning the vapour." 
						- Job 36:32 (KJV)





From HaroldA at eworld.com  Sat Mar 16 01:27:54 1996
From: HaroldA at eworld.com (HaroldA at eworld.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 17:27:54 -0800
Subject: temples, shoes, sandhi
Message-ID: <161227023395.23782.7808112490372976256.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


----------------------------- Begin Original Text
-----------------------------

tathopaanaha aayaanti sarvaa maam ii;sa-mandiraat 
= tathaa upaanaha.h aayaanti sarvaa.h maam ii;sa-mandiraat 
= 'in the same way all shoes come to me from the house/palace of god (=
temple).' 

----------------------------- End Original Text -----------------------------

Thanks, I didn't realize that ";s" represented the palatal sibilant

Yrs.
Harold Arnold





From AmitaSarin at aol.com  Fri Mar 15 23:26:47 1996
From: AmitaSarin at aol.com (AmitaSarin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 18:26:47 -0500
Subject: Male earpieces
Message-ID: <161227023394.23782.5596993726482496175.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Emperor Jahangir recorded his reasons for boring his ears in his diary
(Tuzuk-i-Jahangiri, vol. I, p. 267):
"During my illness it had occurred to me that when I completely recovered,
inasmuch as I was inwardly an ear-bored slave of the Khwaja (Muinu-din
Chishti - the sufi saint) and was indebted to him for my existence, I should
openly make holes in my ears and be enrolled among his ear-marked slaves.  On
 . . I Made holes in my ears and drew into each a shining pearl.  When the
servants of the palace and my loyal friends saw this, both those who were in
the presence and some who were in the distant borders diligently and eagerly
made holes in their ears and adorned the beauty of sincerity with pearls and
rubies which were in the private treasurey, and were bestowed on them, until
by degrees the infection caught Ahadis and others."
A Mughul fashion originally symbolic of devotion to one's pir?!





From aditya at icanect.net  Fri Mar 15 19:54:24 1996
From: aditya at icanect.net (aditya at icanect.net)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 19:54:24 +0000
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023387.23782.15436896998647521154.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

As you know M$ has standard fonts in several scripts including Arabic,
Japanese and Korean.
It is a shame that we do not have any standard fonts to exchange
information.
I have come across a new product called Beyondmail that would allow
email using any font. I personally prefer the keyboard assignments by
Inpros although I also have Velthuis fonts on disk.
Since this list is frequented by the academic community interested in
the use of Devnagri fonts, I would request that we should set up a
consensus on the Devnagri font assignments so that we can exchange
information in  Devnagri script.
Have a nice day. 
---------------
Aditya Mishra  
http://www.icanect.net/~aditya   
***********************************************************
The opinions expressed herein are continually mutating and*
might have already been changed  by the time you read them* 
owing to the more recent information that became available*
***********************************************************





From lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca  Sat Mar 16 03:48:35 1996
From: lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca (lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 22:48:35 -0500
Subject: Male earpieces
Message-ID: <161227023397.23782.1313891895072831548.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

You have the wrong address. please try something else.





From lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca  Sat Mar 16 03:49:29 1996
From: lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca (lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 22:49:29 -0500
Subject: temples, shoes, sandhi
Message-ID: <161227023398.23782.8002349152283502538.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

You have the wrong address.  Please try something else.





From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in  Sat Mar 16 00:53:25 1996
From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 96 00:53:25 +0000
Subject: Temples and shoes
Message-ID: <161227023385.23782.5267651137574158657.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


No wonder then that Basavanna who led the great socio-religious movement in Karnataka during 12th century AD remarked in one of his writings (called Vachanas) in Kannada as follows:

hAgada keraha horage kaledu degulake hogi
devarige namaskArava mA.duva bhaktanante
tanna kerahina dhyAnavallade
devara dhyAnavilla no.dA   
				-  Basavanna (Vacana 202)

Eng Translation:

A devotee who closes his eyes and
Prostrates before the deity in a temple
Thinks seriously not of God
But of his shoes removed outside the temple!

Thanks to God that the "devotees" are now blessed with the new shoes atleast, while returning from the temple!!

Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji


----------
From: 	Madhav Deshpande[SMTP:mmdesh at umich.edu]
Sent: 	Friday, 15 March, 1996 1:36 AM
To: 	Members of the list
Subject: 	Re: Temples and shoes

	And while I was despondent about finding the apropriate authority 
for walking away with someone else's shoes from a temple, I "saw" the 
following verse which is missing from all standard versions of Manu's Laws:

	sarvathaa nuutana.m vastu nirmaatu.m ne.svaro' py alam |
	ekasyopaanahau tasmaad anyasmai pradadaaty asau ||

	Now no one needs to feel guilty.
		Madhav Deshpande

On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Madhav Deshpande wrote:

> 	After reading the long inscription "discovered" by Aklujkar, it
> seems to me that the "scribe" has made some lapses in inscribing hrasvas
> and diirghas.  I suggest that if Aklujkar were to visit the temple walls
> at night again, he may find the corrected version of that great
> inscription and report it to us.


> 	As for missing footware in temples, I have lost mine several 
> times in temples in Pune.  It is one of the ways God makes the haves feel 
> humble and vulnerable, and He rewards the non-haves.  Of course, as soon 
> as I discovered that my footware was missing, I could always walk away 
> with someone elses, with or without inscriptional support.
> 	Madhav Deshpande	
> 
> On Tue, 12 Mar 1996 aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca wrote:
> 
> > In a light-hearted message, Narayan S. Raja wrote on 8 March:
> > 
> > <I also go to the temple to steal footwear.
> > ..  I'm guided by an ancient Sanskrit inscription 
> > that I found on the wall of my house in Srirangam,
> > embodying the noblest of human values:
> > "AkAshAt patitam tOyam   yathA gachchati sAgaram
> >     sarva loka pAdarakshA:  pratigachchanti mAm tathA">
> > 
> > Quarter 'c  of this verse is metrically not correct.
> > 
> > As coincidence would have it,  my hobby is to wander in Srirangam at night
> > and change the inscriptions found on its house walls. Unbeknownst to Mr.
> > Raja, the inscription he quoted was changed some years ago to: 
> > aakaa;saat patita  toya.m yathaa gacchati saagaram / 
> > tathopaanaha aayaanti sarvaa maam ii a-mandiraat // 
> > 
> > Through my nocturnal wanderings, I also managed to get the authentic
> > version of the much-talked-about inscription at Khajuraho. It goes as
> > follows (refer to our resident expert Richard Salomon for translation): 
> > 
> > tvan-netra-sukha-kaariidam asmacchilpa.m, na sa.m;saya.h /
> > bhavya.m divya.m ;siva.m kaavya.m paa.saa.ne.su prasaaritam //1//
> > yathaa sajiivataa.m yaayaan nirjiivapi ;silaa tathaa /
> > ta:nita.m ;silpibhi.h ;sre.s.thair viga.nayya nija-;sramam //2//
> > bhartra ca ;silpinaa.m te.saa.m ga.nito na dhana-vyavya.h /
> > cintita.m naiva  kaalasya kiyaan syaad vyaya ity api //3//
> > kim etat prek.sakaa.naa.m syaan muhuurtam anura;njanam /
> > ity etayaa k.rta.m buddhyaa sa.mbhogaade.h sucitra.nam //4//
> > ti.s.tha, he pathikaatra tva.m nipu.na.m cintayasva ca /
> > ki.m kalaa dharmato bhinnaa, ki.m kaamo dharmato 'pi vaa //5//
> > naaya.m devaalayo vaastu kevala.m graava-nirmitam /
> > ;sivo 'ya.m muurtimaan nyasta.h puras te tattva-cintakai.h //6//
> > yathaa 'siva-caritre.su dharma.h kaama;s ca sa.mgatau /
> > sa.myama.h sa.myamaabhaavo, yatitva.m patitaa, tathaa //7//
> > asmin mi;sriik.rta.m dvandvam asmaabhir a;sma-ve;smani /
> > sundare mahadaakaare mahaa-deva-nibhe 'dbhute //8//
> > tavaapi jiivana.m. paantha, ;silpaad asmaan na bhidyate /
> > ;silpa.m ca ;sivto 'bhinna.m. tasmadd asi ;sivaatmaka.h //9//
> > maitad vismara, he dra.s.tar. maavamanyasva kaamitaam /
> > d.r.s.tim aa;sritya paa;scaatyaa.m vik.toriiya-yugotthitaam //10//
> > yathaa d.r.s.tis tathaa s.r.s.tir. dr.s.tyaa te mok.sa-bandhanau /
> > d.r.s.tyaa s.r.s.ti.m vyatikramya bhukti.m muktyaa vi;sodhaya //11//
> > raajaa vaa raaja-gopaalo gopaalo vavi;se.sa.na.h /
> > ima.m lekha.m pa.thed ya.h sa bhaved buddha.h sva-jiivane //12//
> > 
> > Good wishes.
> > 
> > Ashok Aklujkar, Professor, Department of Asian Studies, University of B.C.,
> > Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. Tel: O: (604) 822-5185, R: (604) 274-5353.
> >  Fax O:
> > 822-8937. E-mail: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 



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From vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu  Sat Mar 16 15:20:37 1996
From: vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 96 10:20:37 -0500
Subject: Khajuharo and newly discovered poetry
Message-ID: <161227023403.23782.10769502856994070613.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



I was talking a friend of mine whose ancesstors where shilpins. He
referred to some old odd leaves left by his grandfather. He looked
through them for me and discovered the following stanza. As this differs
from what has been said so far, I thought that it might be of interest:

    yathaapanetu.m yatate sumaargaat
        tapasvino vajrabh.rd apsarobhi.h |
    tathaalaye kaamagatai.h prabimbair
        didhyaasataa.m vai ka.situ.m sthiratvam ||



-Nath





From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no  Sat Mar 16 14:08:31 1996
From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 96 15:08:31 +0100
Subject: Indologically irrelevant question
Message-ID: <161227023400.23782.11642696440253001445.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Would any of you out there know what "doing track and field" means in
connection with children's activities? (Sorry to bother you with this, but
if you want to give the answer an Indological twist, you may answer in
Sanskrit).

Best regards,

Lars Martin Fosse



Lars Martin Fosse
Research Fellow
Department of East European
and Oriental Studies
P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
N-0315 OSLO Norway

Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
Fax: +47 22 85 41 40

E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no







From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no  Sat Mar 16 14:38:06 1996
From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 96 15:38:06 +0100
Subject: Indologically irrelevant question II
Message-ID: <161227023402.23782.7613374548857352008.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

My question about the meaning of "doing track and field" has now been
answered. You may now disregard the question!

Best regards,

Lars Martin Fosse




Lars Martin Fosse
Research Fellow
Department of East European
and Oriental Studies
P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
N-0315 OSLO Norway

Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
Fax: +47 22 85 41 40

E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no







From wagers at computek.net  Sun Mar 17 01:06:32 1996
From: wagers at computek.net (wagers at computek.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 96 19:06:32 -0600
Subject: New Indologist Web Page
Message-ID: <161227023407.23782.17913248157091227004.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

I have created a new resource page _for the Indologist_.
The web address is:

        http://denton.computek.net/pub/wagers/ousia/Indologist.html

I have tried to make it fast and comprehensive. Please visit the site and
e-mail me your comments, problems, or suggestions.

Regards,

Will

Incidentally, in creating web pages, I have run across a few URLs, all in
England, which come back "Done.", but without loading any data. One
such URL is "http://www.dmu.ac.uk/~pka/guides/jain.html". Would
someone please try it and report to me if the site is working? Thx.







From lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca  Sun Mar 17 00:17:34 1996
From: lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca (lgriff at po-box.mcgill.ca)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 96 19:17:34 -0500
Subject: confusions
Message-ID: <161227023405.23782.3965645697062166000.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Please use a different address for "sghosh".  At the moment, you have the 
wrong one.  I'm receiving many messages from this organization, which i am not 
a part of.  All messages for "Sujata Ghosh" should be sent at an alternative 
address.
                                          Thank-you





From wagers at computek.net  Sun Mar 17 02:47:07 1996
From: wagers at computek.net (wagers at computek.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 96 20:47:07 -0600
Subject: Male earpieces
Message-ID: <161227023411.23782.12782229522532665545.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>"halqe-i gosh" is an old idiom meaning "a slave". Today men who wear ear
>rings mostly do not know how a person from the East wouldi interpret
>this item.
>
>Peter Gaeffke

FYI, the ancient Israelites would puncture the ear of a slave upon the
relationship becoming permanent, i.e. he/she signed up for a second
7-year hitch.

Regards,

Will







From pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu  Sun Mar 17 02:38:21 1996
From: pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Peter Gaeffke)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 96 21:38:21 -0500
Subject: Male earpieces
Message-ID: <161227023409.23782.10348629865228801543.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

"halqe-i gosh" is an old idiom meaning "a slave". Today men who wear ear 
rings mostly do not know how a person from the East wouldi interpret 
this item.

Peter Gaeffke





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Sun Mar 17 05:04:17 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 00:04:17 -0500
Subject: Summer Hindi-Urdu at UNC-CH
Message-ID: <161227023415.23782.15903068787412078467.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


On Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:34:46 EST Afroz Taj <taj at server.sasw.ncsu.edu> wrote:

	
> Please Post and Forward to Potentially Interested People or Listservers:

>               1996 INTENSIVE ELEMENTARY SUMMER HINDI
> 		   AT UNC-CHAPEL HILL
> 
> The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill announces a summer 
> intensive course in beginning Hindi-Urdu (HIND 1-2), from June 27 to August 
> 2, 1996 (including exam days). The Instructor will be Afroz Taj.  
> The class will meet 6.5 hours a day, 5 days a week. 
> Students can expect to complete the class with a competency level 
> permitting enrollment in intermediate Hindi-Urdu.  Students will receive 6 
> credit hours, the equivalent of two semesters.  Tuition and fees for graduate 
> students from out of state will be $2,097, for undergraduates out of state, 
> $2,008.  The figures for in state are graduate, $537, undergraduates, $433.  
> 
> Questions may be directed to any of the following:
> 
> 1. The University Center for International Studies,
> 223 E. Franklin St., University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC 27599-5145.  
> email: btl4 at president.oit.unc.edu
> phone: 919-962-0299  FAX 919-962-5375
> 2. Afroz Taj, 919-515-2475 (office) or 919-832-1237 (home)
>  email: taj at server.sasw.ncsu.edu
> 3. The Curriculum in Asian Studies, 919-962-4294 (secretary Pat 
> Maroney, call between 1:00 and 4:00 pm).
> Afroz N. Taj             Triangle South Asia Consortium
> 
> NCSU Dept. of Foreign Languages and Literatures
> 131 1911 Building, NCSU Raleigh, NC 27695          919-515-2475
> 
> UNC-Chapel Hill Dept. of Asian Studies
> 209 Abernethy Hall, UNC, Chapel Hill 27599         919-962-6825
> 
> 736 Ryan Ct.
> Raleigh NC 27606                                   919-832-1237

=========END FORWARDED MESSAGE=========







From y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu  Sun Mar 17 07:33:48 1996
From: y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu (y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 01:33:48 -0600
Subject: help getting back on.
Message-ID: <161227023413.23782.1253619783539071195.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 list's owner:
		c.wooff at liverpool.ac.uk

For information on this service  send the following
request in the body of a mail message to listproc at liverpool.ac.uk:

			HELP










From y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu  Sun Mar 17 08:01:14 1996
From: y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu (y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 02:01:14 -0600
Subject: Apologies to Indology (again)
Message-ID: <161227023416.23782.5854146311057165173.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Apologies to Indology,

It is far too easy to make a slip and forget to change one detail and send
a message  to the wrong address.  What is even worse is to write yet
another message to apologize! (esp. on a list that would rather not have
the traffic. . .) oops! ;-)  user error. . .


to: pclaus at csuhayward.edu
>list's owner:
		c.wooff at liverpool.ac.uk

For information on this service  send the following
request in the body of a mail message to listproc at liverpool.ac.uk:

			HELP







From lusthaus at macalstr.edu  Sun Mar 17 04:31:23 1996
From: lusthaus at macalstr.edu (lusthaus)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 04:31:23 +0000
Subject: New Indologist Web Page
Message-ID: <161227023419.23782.5789936283167921034.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> Incidentally, in creating web pages, I have run across a few URLs, 
all in
> England, which come back "Done.", but without loading any data. One
> such URL is "http://www.dmu.ac.uk/~pka/guides/jain.html". Would
> someone please try it and report to me if the site is working? Thx.

My Netscape (2.01) says: "This document contains no data"





From unknown at example.com  Sun Mar 17 14:56:37 1996
From: unknown at example.com (unknown at example.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 08:56:37 -0600
Subject: Q: Tamil manuscripts.
Message-ID: <161227023428.23782.1248402773514899076.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



          Tamil Manuscripts stored in Tibet??!
         -------------------------------------


Zvelebil quotes this: "Fortunately photostat copies of Tamil
works on cadjan leaves of the 12th century was made; The manuscripts
were preserved in the much more favaorable climate of Tibet. But, so far, 
they do not seem to be available for study" (T. P. Meenakshisundarm,
A history of Tamil literature, page 5, 1965)

Does anyone know where the Tamil manuscripts from Tibet or the
copies of them are stored? This seems to be very interesting
material for study. Do they contain Buddhist texts??

Thanks for any pointers,

N. Ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov





From unknown at example.com  Sun Mar 17 14:57:47 1996
From: unknown at example.com (unknown at example.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 08:57:47 -0600
Subject: Q: People in the East Indies (Book)
Message-ID: <161227023430.23782.10142367916043239912.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


       Book Title on East Indies?
       ---------------------------

The following question is with me for a long time. Hope some
learned member of the group can answer this query.


I read from a book by K. Zvelebil that some in Indonesia
use "cEntanAr's tiruppallANTu" (Tamil) during some festivals.

The book he cites is
G. K. Vanborough, The peoples in the East Indies.
The author and title may not be very exact, though very close.

Can anybody give the exact author, title, press and year please?

N. Ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov





From pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu  Sun Mar 17 14:33:31 1996
From: pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Peter Gaeffke)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 09:33:31 -0500
Subject: Male earpieces
Message-ID: <161227023426.23782.14150430851055430847.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Will Wagers

Thank you for your response. The piering of ears of slaves seems to be a
Middle Eastern custom and was brought to India from Iran as the Persian
idiom shows which I quoted. 

The Indians (Hindus) had other ideas what an ear ornament could be as the
name Kapalakundala shows which is an epithet of Kali and used as a title
of Bankim Chandra Chatterji"s famous novel.  The heroine of this book, of
course, did not wear skulls on her ears. But the name alone shows  how 
powerful notions are connected with the piercing of the ear.

Peter Gaeffke






From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Sun Mar 17 14:59:28 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 09:59:28 -0500
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023418.23782.12590923008630300906.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Fri, 15 Mar 1996 20:16:04 GMT Aditya wrote:

>I have come across a new product called Beyondmail that would allow
>email using any font. 

The place I work has had Beyondmail installed for the past year, and it is not a
very nice package in my view.  Oh, it has a lot of features, but it is very
clumsy to use, and doesn't allow easy quotation and comment on replies.

About the fonts: Beyondmail allows one to use any installed windows font, it is
true, but such information only gets passed to other Beyondmail users on the
same local network, not to people on the internet generally.

So we are back to mime, which is still not so widely supported that one can rely
on people in general having it. 

Finally, for a scheme such as you suggest, everyone would have to buy or acquire
the *same* Devanagari font and display software.  Unrealistic.  

I'm afraid 7-bit transliteration will be with us in our internet communications
for a while yet.

>Since this list is frequented by the academic community interested in
>the use of Devnagri fonts, I would request that we should set up a
>consensus on the Devnagri font assignments so that we can exchange
>information in  Devnagri script.

I would vote for using the Velthuis transliteration, which is simple, as good as
any, and at least allows those with TeX or ITRANS to get Devanagari out of the
text without too much fiddling.

Dominik

--
Dominik Wujastyk







From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk  Sun Mar 17 13:01:21 1996
From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 13:01:21 +0000
Subject: Right & Left
Message-ID: <161227023421.23782.3343878537460179040.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi,

Something has been puzzling me for a long time and I wonder if anyone can 
help me out.

Usually one comes across shlokas where the devi is placed at the left of the
deva; e.g. :-

niilaambujashyaamalakomalaN^gaM siitaa samaaropita vaama bhaagam.h |
paaNau mahaasaayaka chaaru chaapaM namaami raamaM raghuva.nshanaatham.h ||

and 

dakshine lakshmaNo yasya vaame tu janakaatmajaa |
purato marutiryasya taM vande raghunandanam.h ||

However, at the start of the ba.Daa bandii mochana one finds :-

sadaa bhavaanii daahine sanmukha rahe.n gaNesha |
paa.ncha deva rakshaa kare.n brahma vishhNu mahesha |

Can someone please explain the difference? Many thanks beforehand.

bye,

Girish Beeharry

ps:- Thanks to the anonymous Khajuraho 'tagger' who brought the list back to
normal! :-) 





From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no  Sun Mar 17 13:10:33 1996
From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 14:10:33 +0100
Subject: confusions
Message-ID: <161227023423.23782.2209026642914588293.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Please use a different address for "sghosh".  At the moment, you have the
>wrong one.  I'm receiving many messages from this organization, which i am not
>a part of.  All messages for "Sujata Ghosh" should be sent at an alternative
>address.
>                                          Thank-you

Try to avail yourself of these instruction:

To subscribe to INDOLOGY, send the email message:

"subscribe indology Your Name"

(where "Your Name" is, obviously, your real name) to the address:

"listserv at liverpool.ac.uk".

That will do the trick.

Later, messages to (and from) the are sent to:
"indology at liverpool.ac.uk"
To get a list of members, send the message:
"review indology"
to the listserv address. To resign, send the message:
"unsub indology"
to listserv.

If you unsubscribe, you may get rid of Indology net.

Best regards,

Lars Martin Fosse



Lars Martin Fosse
Research Fellow
Department of East European
and Oriental Studies
P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
N-0315 OSLO Norway

Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
Fax: +47 22 85 41 40

E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no







From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no  Sun Mar 17 13:22:27 1996
From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 14:22:27 +0100
Subject: New Indologist Web Page
Message-ID: <161227023425.23782.8491392621215276405.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Dear Indologists,
>
>I have created a new resource page _for the Indologist_.
>The web address is:
>
>        http://denton.computek.net/pub/wagers/ousia/Indologist.html
>
>I have tried to make it fast and comprehensive. Please visit the site and
>e-mail me your comments, problems, or suggestions.
>

Beautiful job! Rather nice to be able to read the Hindu on screen.

Lars Martin Fosse



Lars Martin Fosse
Research Fellow
Department of East European
and Oriental Studies
P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
N-0315 OSLO Norway

Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
Fax: +47 22 85 41 40

E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no







From RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU  Mon Mar 18 00:41:57 1996
From: RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU (RAJAGOPALANM at HARPO.TNSTATE.EDU)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 18:41:57 -0600
Subject: Right & Left
Message-ID: <161227023435.23782.12280070004882524892.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear girish  Beharry ,
You raised the question : Sometimes the devi is on the right side and
sometimes on the left . why this difference ?   The description of the
deva and devi depends on the temple where the bhakta is worshipping .
Not all temples have the devi on the same side of the deva. So if the bhakta
had a darshan of the deity in one way we see a sloka one way and if
a bhakta sees  the otherway then  there is a sloka the other way .
a famous example of thisphenomenon of change from right to left
is the murthy of Sri Nataraja where he is seen in all temples lifting 
the left leg but in Madurai Sri Nataraja is seen having his right leg lifted.
That Nataraja is also called  Kaal Maari Adiya Natarajar ( the Nataraja
who changed his leg ) which he did at the request of one his
great devotees who was also a king.)  M.Rajagopalanz





From magier at columbia.edu  Mon Mar 18 00:20:26 1996
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 19:20:26 -0500
Subject: New Indologist Web Page
Message-ID: <161227023433.23782.9603985952285864970.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> I have created a new resource page _for the Indologist_.
> The web address is:
> 
>         http://denton.computek.net/pub/wagers/ousia/Indologist.html
> 
> I have tried to make it fast and comprehensive. Please visit the site and
> e-mail me your comments, problems, or suggestions.

Will,
a very nice focused collection. Thank you.


> Incidentally, in creating web pages, I have run across a few URLs, all in
> England, which come back "Done.", but without loading any data. One
> such URL is "http://www.dmu.ac.uk/~pka/guides/jain.html". Would
> someone please try it and report to me if the site is working? Thx.

I've been getting the same response from that site for the last week.
In fact, it is not just the jain document, but the entire web site
(which comes from DeMontfort University) which seems to be down... I
haven't noticed this behavior from any others...

David Magier





From aditya at icanect.net  Mon Mar 18 03:47:51 1996
From: aditya at icanect.net (aditya at icanect.net)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 03:47:51 +0000
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023436.23782.11757501742792768542.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dr Dominik Wujastyk)  has  recently written as
follows:
>The place I work has had Beyondmail installed for the past year, and it is not a
>very nice package in my view.  Oh, it has a lot of features, but it is very
>clumsy to use, and doesn't allow easy quotation and comment on replies.
I am not sure about last year but it seems they have a new release
that does not seem that clumsy.
>About the fonts: Beyondmail allows one to use any installed windows font, it is
>true, but such information only gets passed to other Beyondmail users on the
>same local network, not to people on the internet generally.
That was the point of my note. At least one mailer does allow devnagri
fonts. If had one standard Hindi font with standard keyboard
assignments then other mailers may also start including it in there
offering. As I said if Arabic and Japanese fonts can supported by MS,
why not Devnagri fonts as well.
In the mean time we have some means of making ends meet by Bmail.
Bmail is being offered for free for now but even later (April 15) the
price is not unreasonably high. The only problem is having to settle
on a standard fonts and at least on this list we can have a consensus
of have some standard font. And let us vote it out.

>

Have a nice day. 
---------------
Aditya Mishra  
http://www.icanect.net/~aditya   
***********************************************************
The opinions expressed herein are continually mutating and*
might have already been changed  by the time you read them* 
owing to the more recent information that became available*
***********************************************************





From vyasa at ix.netcom.com  Mon Mar 18 11:12:50 1996
From: vyasa at ix.netcom.com (Martin Epstein)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 06:12:50 -0500
Subject: Rig Veda Concordance
Message-ID: <161227023440.23782.8966519910358579793.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Namaskar

Would you know of a Rig Veda concordance on word for word cross reference. I looked at Bloomfield's which provided references by pada. Even more ideal would be the Rig Veda on disk or on-line. Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

Thank you,

Martin






From mrabe at artic.edu  Mon Mar 18 13:04:19 1996
From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 08:04:19 -0500
Subject: Right & Left
Message-ID: <161227023447.23782.6729768495433029872.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In response to Dr. J.B. Bapat who writes:
>One could advance reasons why the bride had to on the right. In olden
>times marriages took place when the bride was essentially a child and
>hence a virgin. A KumAri is essentially pure and can therefore sit on
>the right.( right is the pure side)

By Occam's Razor a simpler explanation may be that during the wedding
ceremony the bride stands to the right UNTIL the appointed time for her to
move to her appointed place as wife, at her husband's left.  Iconographic
sanction for this reasoning is common in South Indian KalyANa-sundara mUrti
groupings and occurs as early at the mid-6th c. at Elephanta, where Parvati
stands on Shiva's right side, being presented to him by "brother" Vishnu at
her right side.

Michael Rabe
Saint Xavier University
& School of the Art Institute of Chicago







From Jayant.B.Bapat at sci.monash.edu.au  Mon Mar 18 09:29:33 1996
From: Jayant.B.Bapat at sci.monash.edu.au (Bapat Jb)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 09:29:33 +0000
Subject: Right & Left
Message-ID: <161227023431.23782.5619654302036031834.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Re Girish Behamy's querry concerning the position of the woman in 
relation to man:
While I cannot explain why it is so, I may offer a comment.Whether 
the woman is on the right or left seems to depend on several factors.
1) type of ritual involved: viz. in Maharashtra, during wedding, the 
daughter to be married sits on the right side of her father wheras 
her mother sits on his left. In the rituals before the actual 
wedding, she sits(or stands) on the right side of the groom.However,
after the exchanging of garlands, she now sits on his left as his
newly wedded wife. Thus the wife's position in Maharashtra is always
on the left. There are however exceptions to this rule as well.
2)Part of India: In South India, wife sits on the RIGHT of the 
husband during rituals.
While according to the texts, wAmAngi is the correct position for the 
woman, the exceptions seem to be nothing more than customs because
the people I asked were unable to explain the reasons.
One could advance reasons why the bride had to on the right. In olden 
times marriages took place when the bride was essentially a child and 
hence a virgin. A KumAri is essentially pure and can therefore sit on 
the right.( right is the pure side)
____________________________________________________________________
Dr J.B. Bapat                                     Phone (03)9054510
Chemistry Department                              Fax   (03)9054597 
Monash University           e-mail:jayant.b.bapat at sci.monash.edu.au
Clayton, Victoria
Australia
____________________________________________________________________



 
    





From r.l.schmidt at easteur-orient.uio.no  Mon Mar 18 08:54:54 1996
From: r.l.schmidt at easteur-orient.uio.no (r.l.schmidt at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 09:54:54 +0100
Subject: Address
Message-ID: <161227023438.23782.8994187243396305916.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear members of the Indology List:

Can anyone give me the address of Prof. Nespital at Freie Universitaet in
Berlin?  It would be particularly nice to get an email address.

Thank you in advance,

Ruth Schmidt
Dept of East European and Oriental Studies 
University of Oslo
P.O. Box 1030 Blindern
N-0315 Oslo, Norway
Phone: (47) 22 85 55 86
Fax: (47) 22 85 41 40
Email: r.l.schmidt at easteur-orient.uio.no 






From mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com  Mon Mar 18 19:11:49 1996
From: mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com (Mani Varadarajan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 11:11:49 -0800
Subject: Right & Left
Message-ID: <161227023455.23782.861529395805092840.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Mar 18,  2:14pm, Michael Rabe wrote:
> By Occam's Razor a simpler explanation may be that during the wedding
> ceremony the bride stands to the right UNTIL the appointed time for her to
> move to her appointed place as wife, at her husband's left.

No, in south India, the wife is always to the right of
the husband. This is the ``dampati'' pose.  This tradition,
however, does not seem to be followed for temple deities.

Mani







From unknown at example.com  Mon Mar 18 17:11:52 1996
From: unknown at example.com (unknown at example.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 11:11:52 -0600
Subject: Q: Exact Kavya Condensations?
Message-ID: <161227023449.23782.112363842071093564.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

3/18/96


           Query: Exact Kavya Condensations in Sankrit
          ---------------------------------------------
                and other Indian language?
                --------------------------

takkai rAmAyaNam (1580 A.D, tamil) follows Kampan's story from 
beginning to end. takkai R.  has been sung in a way so that it 
can be used for oral performances,  set to "tALam" of takkai, a small drum.

takkai rAmAyaNam is a beautiful, simple, lucid work. (eLimai, teLivu, curukkam)
and follows Kampan (9th century.) poem by poem. Almost like a commentary 
for Kampan. Depending on the place, takkai R. condenses three or two or one 
poem(s) of Kampan into one song showing the essence of Kampan's genius.

Even though there are about 10-15 Ramayanas in Tamil, including a Jain one,
none follows Kampan literally like takkai R. A. K. Ramanujan wrote a classic
paper on 300 versions of ramayana in India. He was planning an english
book on Kampan along with D. Shulman. Now that AKR is gone to meet
Kampan himself in heaven. however, it is a loss down here on earth for 
South Indian studies. There are other condensations in tamil, usually 
they turn out to be "harder" than even the originals and they are no longer
good poetry where as takkai r. succeeds in its intent to a large extent.

My question:
In Sanskrit, are there any (good) kavya sangrahas? Are they popular
and well-known? What are the originals and the redactions? I need
the authors/titles of these pairs? What about other Indic lanuages?
Any reasearch papers in this area?

Thanks,
N. Ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov

More on takkai ramayanam:
Kampan's 10500 classic viruttam poems of high Tamil were condensed 
into 3250  easy-to-follow songs by Emperuman. 
This is the greatest tribute that Tamils have ever paid to Kampan. 

Kampan praises his patron, Cataiyappa Vallal 
in about ten places in his Ramayanam as part of thanksgiving.
There is a nice story of how it came to be ten. Originally when 
Kampan introduced his masterpiece to his peers in Srirangam, he 
has praised his protector once in 100 poems. The Srirangam pundits protested 
this narastuti saying they have no place in God's story.
Kampan would not agree. Finally, a compromise was reached so that
Kampan can sing about Cataiyappan in 10 places in his 10000-piece
Ramayana. Kampan said, "Ah! My Cataiyan is indeed rare. He is one
among thousand, not one in hundred."

What is interesting about takkai Ramayanam is that at the same 
places of the Kampa Ramayanam where Cataiyan is eulogized, Emperuman
praises Morur Nallathampi, a local chieftain given to literary taste
and the one who commissioned takkai ramayanam.

takkai R. is an aesthetic retelling of Kampan in a different metre. 
About 1/3rd of Kampan. takkai rAmAyaNam helps in understanding 
which are true kampan's poems and about interpolations.
Because it is about 400 years-old and a tribute to Kampan, we can confidantly
say that one particular poem is by kampan  if it is redone by emperumAn 
of takkai rAmAyaNam and not a "mikaip pATal" by someone else. There are lot of
of examples. In addition to comparing various manuscripts from
different places of different periods, takkai R. serves as an aid to get at
the Ur-text of Kampan.

takkai ramayanam was written around 1580 A.D. by Emperuman
Kavirayar of tiruchengode. Only the first five Kandams have come out.
(k. aruNAcala kavuNTar, emperumAn kavirAyar pATiya
takkai irAmAyaNam, 2v., first five cantos, 1983, Dept. 
of Archaeology, Madras). Yuddha Kantam is being readied for publication.

A poem from takkai R. and kampa R.

vaaraNam  porutha  maarpum,  varaiyinai  eTuththa  thOLum,
n^aaratha  munivaRku  ERpa  n^ayampaTa  uraiththa  n^aavum,
thaaraNi  mavuli  paththum,  changkaran  koTuththa  vaaLum,
vIramum  kaLaththE  pOTTu  veRungkaiyE  mINTu  pOnaan.
                                         --  kampan


vEza  maruppu  aRRa  maarpuramum
     veLLimalai  koNTa  thOLmiTukkum
vaaza  varamtharum  n^aaratharmun
     maRaiaayiram  chonna  vaayvaliyum
IzamaNi  minnum  makuTam  paththum
     Ichan  aruLiya  kathirvaaLum
thaaza  vIramum  thiRaikoTuththuth
     thaniyE  veRungkaiyaan  n^aTan^thu  chenRaan.
                                         --  emperumaan


Emperuman flatters Kampan by artful imitation!

























From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no  Mon Mar 18 12:20:33 1996
From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 13:20:33 +0100
Subject: Rig Veda Concordance
Message-ID: <161227023442.23782.1313270076309202778.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Namaskar
>
>Would you know of a Rig Veda concordance on word for word cross reference. I
>looked at Bloomfield's which provided references by pada. Even more ideal
>would be the Rig Veda on disk or on-line. Any help would be gratefully
>appreciated.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Martin

The new edition of the Rigveda by van Nooten and Holland is accompanied by
a diskette with the text of the edition:

Barend A. van Nooten and Gary B. Holland (1994). Rig Veda. A Metrically
Restored Text with an Introduction and Notes. Cambridge, Mass., Harvard
University Press.

Best regards,

Lars Martin Fosse



Lars Martin Fosse
Research Fellow
Department of East European
and Oriental Studies
P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
N-0315 OSLO Norway

Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
Fax: +47 22 85 41 40

E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no







From Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za  Mon Mar 18 14:27:00 1996
From: Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za (Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 14:27:00 +0000
Subject: Male Ear Rings
Message-ID: <161227023445.23782.3624918969844961372.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I tend to disagree with the suggestion that it is easier to spot a
circumcised muslim.  I would have thougth it would be easier to spot a
pierced ear than to spot the circumcised spot unless one tears open the
underpant.  In any case, I did not get the impression from the earlier
writer's posting that piercing the ear by Hindus had anything to with
muslims.  The message simply says that "ear rings served practical
purpose."

Cheers

Pratap



>It was stated that:
>>3) I have heard male ear rings served a practical
>>purpose. Vijayanagar & later Nayaka times were rough.
>>In the constant warfare, those fallen on battlefields
>>were distinguished to be Hindu or Muslim
>>depending on whether his ears were pierced or not.
>>Then, cremation or burial decisions could be made.
>It is some kind of an urban myth, since the muslims were/are
>always circumcised and it was far easier to spot them than
>Hindus with pierced ears.
>Piercing of ears was custom among with long tradition and
>has nothing to do with muslims.
>Have a nice day.
>---------------
>Aditya Mishra
>http://www.icanect.net/~aditya
>***********************************************************
>The opinions expressed herein are continually mutating and*
>might have already been changed  by the time you read them*
>owing to the more recent information that became available*
>***********************************************************

+----------------------------------------------------------------+
Dr. P. Kumar
Department of Hindu Studies & Indian Philosophy
University of Durban-Westville
Private Bag X 54001
Durban
4000
South Africa
Tel: 031-820-2194
Fax: 031-820-2160
Email: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za







From kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu  Mon Mar 18 21:51:37 1996
From: kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu (Kamal Adhikary)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 15:51:37 -0600
Subject: Male earpieces
Message-ID: <161227023462.23782.6813825997015144191.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear colleagues:
        On February 15, John Hawley, Barnard College, gave a talk on
      "Bhakti Studies in an Age of Hindu Nationalism" at the Asian
Studies, UT Austin.  The abstract of the talk is is given below:


BHAKTI STUDIES IN AN AGE OF HINDU NATIONALISM
				
University of Texas, 2/15/96
Jack Hawley

Rustom Bharucha concludes a recent essay called The Question of Faith   
as follows:

    [I]t is heartening to acknowledge the increased scholarly and 
activist interest in the
    radical religious movements of our past history, most notably in 
studies of bhakti... 
    [F]or a ?secualr theology? to exist in India, there would have to be 
a theory that could 
    be adapted within the multireligious context of differing faiths.  
The basis for such a 
    theory is less likely to be found in the existing political rhetoric 
of ?religious tolerance?, 
    than in the vision of saints like Kabir, Guru Nanak, and Chaitanya 
who, as Tagore 
    understood so well, ?preached one God to all races in India,? 
adapting different idioms 
    of communication.  Secualrists have a lot to learn from the idioms of 
?tolerance? 
    embedded in every religious faith.

    The purpose of my paper is to see what light is shed by current 
scholarship on such luminaries as Kabir, Nanak, and Chaitanya.  What do 
we now see it takes to ?get at? the vision of this cohort of bhakti  
saints?  I do so by considering three realms: (1) textual studies 
striclty speaking. (2) biographical or hagiographical studies, and (3) 
studies of context--hitorical, social, ritual, performance.  I focus 
especially on scholarhsip about Kabir, but make reference also to recent 
work on Mirabai.
    The results are not simple.  Textual studies yield a picture of 
multiple recensions for both saints; hagiographical studies, similarly, 
take us around the ?hermeneutical circle?? and contextual studies cause 
us to confront the fact that canons are constructed, not in any way 
given.. What then can we conclude?
    Perhaps the most important point to grasp is that whether of not 
bhakti  is always in some fundamental sense ABOUT democracy-- in the 
sense of articulating a language of faith that would be amenable to the 
cause of national integration-- it nonetheless IS democracy.  Undoubtedly 
there are settings where bhakti   has carefully cordoned off from the 
rough-and-tumble of everyday life, and represented as some splendid, 
polished pavilion.  The pavilion may take the shape of a temple or 
school; or it may be a theology (perhaps even with a commentarial 
literature in Sanskrit explaining the words of a poet who deplored that 
language--Kabir); or it may take the very different form of modern social 
scientese pressed into service for the advancement of a progressive 
agenda.  But the great thing about  bhakti   as a resource for democracy 
and national intergration is that it always escapes from airy pavilions 
such as these.  It is a people?s literature, a people?s religion, and its 
axpressions vary across the social spectrum, with new infusions all the time.



The abstrct is also post at:
	http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/subject/s.asia.sem.962.html

Thanks.
	kamal

_______________
Kamal R. Adhikary, Ph.D.
Internet Coordinator, Asian Studies
UT, Austin, Texas 78712
Tel:512-475-6034
Email:kamal at asnic.utexas.edu






From HaroldA at eworld.com  Tue Mar 19 00:25:17 1996
From: HaroldA at eworld.com (HaroldA at eworld.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 16:25:17 -0800
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023468.23782.12349655654651563128.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


----------------------------- Begin Original Text
-----------------------------

I would vote for using the Velthuis transliteration, which is simple, as good
as
any, and at least allows those with TeX or ITRANS to get Devanagari out of
the
text without too much fiddling.

----------------------------- End Original Text -----------------------------

I agree that trying to use a Devanaagari font would be practically
impossibly, given the fact that the scholars at each and every university
seem to have their own fonts and keyboard mappings, not to speak of the chasm
between Mac and PC users. What is the Velthius transliteration? Could you
simply post the varNamAla? E.g. a A i I, etc.? (Or is it a aa i ii? )
Yrs.
Harold F. Arnold






From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Mon Mar 18 18:24:42 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 18:24:42 +0000
Subject: legal aspects of ancient Indian medicine
Message-ID: <161227023451.23782.9022823786911380187.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Jaroslav Strnad said:
> 
> Basic information and useful bibliography can be found in:
> A.L. Basham, The Practice of Medicine in Ancient and Medieval India. In: 
> Charles Leslie (ed.), Asian Medical Systems: A Comparative Study. 
> University of California Press,  Berkeley etc. 1976, pp. 18-43.

[Distastefully blowing own trumpet: ]

See also, D. Wujastyk, "Indian Medicine", ch. 33 of _Companion
encyclopedia of the history of medicine_ ed. W. F. Bynum an Roy Porter
(Routledge, 1993), vol. 1, 755--778.

DW






From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Mon Mar 18 18:36:19 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 18:36:19 +0000
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023453.23782.6380535454476029877.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Aditya, the Hindu Skeptic said:
> 
> ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dr Dominik Wujastyk)  has  recently written as
> follows:

> >About the fonts: Beyondmail allows one to use any installed windows font, it is
> >true, but such information only gets passed to other Beyondmail users on the
> >same local network, not to people on the internet generally.
> That was the point of my note. At least one mailer does allow devnagri
> fonts.

No, no, you misunderstand.  I said *local* network.  This would only
work on an internal Novell network, running MHS, for example.  Not over
the internet.

> The only problem is having to settle
> on a standard fonts and at least on this list we can have a consensus
> of have some standard font. And let us vote it out.

I'm sorry to have to repeat that the technical problems are much greater
than you realize.  This is not a matter that can be solved by a vote; if
it were, I would be the first to rejoice.  Unfortunately, the bulk of
the internetworked networks that form the Internet are still based on a
7-bit smtp transport level.  This precludes any direct transmission of
anything other than the 128 characters of the ASCII/IISO 646 character
set.

The MIME protocol is the best hope of transmitting richer text for the
present, but even that is not widespread.  In the final analysis, too,
any font work will rely on users at both ends using the same
application software, or at least a shared operating system if the
latter supports font display.  Such uniformity at the end-user level is
impossible.  I, for example, have never used Windows (and never will, if
I can avoid it).  Many people use Unix workstations.  So a Windows-based
solution would be inadequate.  This situation is unfortunate, but
perhaps when Unicode gets more widespread, we may see some progress.

Best wishes,
Dominik





From pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu  Tue Mar 19 03:48:17 1996
From: pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu (pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 19:48:17 -0800
Subject: None
Message-ID: <161227023472.23782.17476913821315248310.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


New Message
Date: March 18, 1996 
 
Indology List
indology at Liverpool.ac.uk
 
Dear Members,
 
I didn't catch the beginning of the discussion of the placement
of a woman in relation to men in ritual, but I have something of
an 'explanation' in response to Dr. Bapat's observation that in
Maharashtra the bride initially sits to the right of the groom
and later to his left. 
 
During a fieldwork methodology workshop in India we made video of
each of the stages of a wedding as practiced by Telugu-speaking
Gollas (pastoralists) living in Karnataka.  During the stage when
the couple is washed with turmeric, and then playfully smear
large handfuls of turmeric on one another (the act resembling
throwing a pie in someone's face!) the bride sits on the groom's
right.  Later, as Dr. Bapat observed, after the garlanding, she
stands to his left.
 
Now, interestingly, the workshop participants, all highly
educated Indians, insisted that the bride sat on the left at all
times, and it took repeated replays of the video to convince them
otherwise.  Finally, we came up with the same explanation
(interpretation) that Michael Rabe has already given: "during the
wedding ceremony the bride stands to the right UNTIL the
appointed time for her to move to her appointed place as wife, at
her husband's left." 
 
But fortunately, we were still in the field and could go and ask
the Gollas themselves: were they aware of the switch? why do they
do it? etc.  
 
They were indeed aware of it and laughed at our interest in the
matter.  We suggested our interpretation of why it was done like
it was.  They laughed again, harder.  The reason THEY gave was
that with the bride on the groom's right, he could reach his
right arm around her back and hold her firmly while he pasted her
in the face with a handful of the turmeric!  Their explanation at
first appeared purely practical: he could control (overcome) her
better. She was at a disadvantage in that regard.  (In fact she
had missed his face and merely grazed his check, depositing most
of the turmeric on his shoulder.)
 
While this may not satisfy many Indologists as THE explanation
(it doesn't me) it is certainly ONE explanation, and it does tie
in with the fact that this was a stage in which there was other
humor and playfulness.  At South Indian weddings, in fact, there
are definite stages in which a variety (varying by caste and
region) of formal games are played. Certainly, one can say that
the Golla explanation fits well with why the GOLLAS do what they
do, and why at this stage in the wedding the bride sits on the
groom's right.  Furthermore, in this fairly strongly male-
dominant community, despite being on the usually more dominant
right side, it puts her in the more submissive position,
perfectly in keeping with her husband's responsibility to control
her, physically, and in most other ways. A rare case of the
exception proving the rule!
 
Peter J. Claus                        
fax: (510) 885-3353
pclaus at csuhayward.edu





From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk  Mon Mar 18 21:02:17 1996
From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 21:02:17 +0000
Subject: Right & Left
Message-ID: <161227023459.23782.17147834773917392819.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi,

I think that the question needs to be refocused. Issues raised have been 
about wives' and deities positions and the difference between the North 
and the South. In our tradition the wife assumes either the left or the right
position depending on the circumstances. However, I believe that the 
question raised is not being answered. Would anyone please give an 
explanation for the difference between the two positions described below?  
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Incidentally, the first shloka gives the position of lakshmana and the 
marutis; would anyone please explain why they have these particular 
positions? Many thanks beforehand.

dakshine lakshmaNo yasya vaame tu janakaatmajaa |
purato marutiryasya taM vande raghunandanam.h ||

sadaa bhavaanii daahine sanmukha rahe.n gaNesha |
paa.ncha deva rakshaa kare.n brahma vishhNu mahesha |

bye,

Girish Beeharry






From falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Mon Mar 18 20:36:10 1996
From: falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de (falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 21:36:10 +0100
Subject: Address
Message-ID: <161227023457.23782.11217248779373089913.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> 
> Dear members of the Indology List:
> 
> Can anyone give me the address of Prof. Nespital at Freie Universitaet in
> Berlin?  It would be particularly nice to get an email address.
> 
> Thank you in advance,
> 
> Ruth Schmidt
> Dept of East European and Oriental Studies 
> University of Oslo
> P.O. Box 1030 Blindern
> N-0315 Oslo, Norway
> Phone: (47) 22 85 55 86
> Fax: (47) 22 85 41 40
> Email: r.l.schmidt at easteur-orient.uio.no 
> 
> 
> 

nespital at zedat.fu-berlin.de

will be back from India by the end of this month
h.Falk






From thompson at handel.jlc.net  Tue Mar 19 02:42:25 1996
From: thompson at handel.jlc.net (thompson at handel.jlc.net)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 21:42:25 -0500
Subject: Bart van Nooten
Message-ID: <161227023470.23782.13605425999779199141.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The e-mail address of Bart van Nooten which I have is apparently wrong [my
mail to him has been returned].  Does anyone know his s-mail address, or a
correct e-mail address?
Many thanks,
George Thompson







From mgansten at sbbs.se  Mon Mar 18 21:33:51 1996
From: mgansten at sbbs.se (mgansten at sbbs.se)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 22:33:51 +0100
Subject: Right & Left
Message-ID: <161227023461.23782.8440254669142197758.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Girish Beeharry wrote:

>Incidentally, the first shloka gives the position of lakshmana and the 
>marutis; would anyone please explain why they have these particular 
>positions? Many thanks beforehand.
>
>dakshine lakshmaNo yasya vaame tu janakaatmajaa |
>purato marutiryasya taM vande raghunandanam.h ||

"mArutiH" in this stanza is singular, and refers to hanumAn (vAyuputra).

Martin Gansten






From aditya at icanect.net  Mon Mar 18 23:04:10 1996
From: aditya at icanect.net (aditya at icanect.net)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 23:04:10 +0000
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023466.23782.8744736438470516645.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dominik Wujastyk <ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk>  has  recently written as
follows:

>No, no, you misunderstand.  I said *local* network.  This would only
>work on an internal Novell network, running MHS, for example.  Not over
>the internet.
I have tested i t to work on non-local network.
However, I have no personal agenda in pushing of Beyondmail or any
other product as such. It is just happens to be the only product that
did  allow me to transmit in Devnagri script and I am just too eager
to start communicating devnagri text.
>I'm sorry to have to repeat that the technical problems are much greater
I would like to know about other problems that make Msoft to provide
standard fonts in Arabic, Cyrilic and Japanese etc to the exclusion of
Devnagri alone.
>The MIME protocol is the best hope of transmitting richer text for the
>present, but even that is not widespread.  In the final analysis, too,
>any font work will rely on users at both ends using the same
>application software, or at least a shared operating system if the
>latter supports font display.  Such uniformity at the end-user level is
>impossible.  I, for example, have never used Windows (and never will, if
>I can avoid it).  Many people use Unix workstations.  So a Windows-based
>solution would be inadequate.  This situation is unfortunate, but
>perhaps when Unicode gets more widespread, we may see some progress.
That is a long term solution and we must push for it but windows is a
very widespread and easily accessible. Most of can have at least
secondary access to it  at relatively low price just to avail exchange
of data. BTW Beyond mail is also being developed for Apple
environment. What is does, is that it appends the font data at the end
of each message and if we know the fonts that were used to create a
text they can just be read back.
Whatever may be our personal preferences, it is indisputable that MS
has beat all the other system. In the market place it is not always
the best product that succeeds and I do not have to quote the
examples.
Have a nice day. 
---------------
Aditya Mishra  
http://www.icanect.net/~aditya   
***********************************************************
The opinions expressed herein are continually mutating and*
might have already been changed  by the time you read them* 
owing to the more recent information that became available*
***********************************************************





From n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de  Mon Mar 18 22:16:55 1996
From: n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de (n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 23:16:55 +0100
Subject: Right & Left
Message-ID: <161227023464.23782.12423707345417264234.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Girish Behari wrote
>Hi,
>
>Something has been puzzling me for a long time and I wonder if anyone can 
>help me out.
>
>Usually one comes across shlokas where the devi is placed at the left of the
>deva; e.g. :-
>
>niilaambujashyaamalakomalaN^gaM siitaa samaaropita vaama bhaagam.h |
>paaNau mahaasaayaka chaaru chaapaM namaami raamaM raghuva.nshanaatham.h ||
>
>and 
>
>dakshine lakshmaNo yasya vaame tu janakaatmajaa |
>purato marutiryasya taM vande raghunandanam.h ||
>
>However, at the start of the ba.Daa bandii mochana one finds :-
>
>sadaa bhavaanii daahine sanmukha rahe.n gaNesha |
>paa.ncha deva rakshaa kare.n brahma vishhNu mahesha |
>
>Can someone please explain the difference? Many thanks beforehand.

Perhaps the sloution to your puzzle is simple:  in one case  husband and 
wife are involved -  not so much devi and deva, and in another case 
bhavaanii and her sons are involved.  

Narahari Rao
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. B. Narahari Rao,                         F.R. 5.1. Philosophie,  
Unversitaet des Saarlandes,
                                                            Postfach 15 11 
50,  D-66041 Saarbruecken, Germany. (Tel: +49 681 302 2849)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------






From mrabe at artic.edu  Tue Mar 19 13:23:32 1996
From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 08:23:32 -0500
Subject: Right & Left
Message-ID: <161227023478.23782.18317812929153888283.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A foot note prompted by the engrossing field-report by Peter Claus:
...
>During a fieldwork methodology workshop in India we made video of
>each of the stages of a wedding as practiced by Telugu-speaking
>Gollas (pastoralists) living in Karnataka.  During the stage when
>the couple is washed with turmeric, and then playfully smear
>large handfuls of turmeric on one another (the act resembling
>throwing a pie in someone's face!) the bride sits on the groom's
>right.  Later, as Dr. Bapat observed, after the garlanding, she
>stands to his left.
...
>They were indeed aware of it and laughed at our interest in the
>matter.  We suggested our interpretation of why it was done like
>it was.  They laughed again, harder.  The reason THEY gave was
>that with the bride on the groom's right, he could reach his
>right arm around her back and hold her firmly while he pasted her
>in the face with a handful of the turmeric!  Their explanation at
>first appeared purely practical: he could control (overcome) her
>better...*

* In much the same vein, but in total seriousness, my Sanskrit professor
(a Brahman, Aryasamajist Panjabi) once confided to his chelas that the
wife's appointed place at her husband's left side originated in bed: the
better for right-handed men to make love...


My final comment on this thread (promise):
        the best student response to slide projections of ardhanArIzvara
icons, and to the question of why the female invariably occupies the left
half came from a senior-citizen auditor: instantly she shot back, "because
the heart is on the left."







From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk  Tue Mar 19 09:22:00 1996
From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 09:22:00 +0000
Subject: Right & Left
Message-ID: <161227023477.23782.14274705169766004014.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi,

>dakshine lakshmaNo yasya vaame tu janakaatmajaa |
>purato marutiryasya taM vande raghunandanam.h ||

>"mArutiH" in this stanza is singular, and refers to hanumAn (vAyuputra).

I'm sorry about the mistake. I was thinking about the Marutis and wrote it in 
the plural. 

The explanations, which are scholarly, are still about the brides & grooms. As
far as can see the shlokas refer to devis and devas. In addition, would someone
please provide the explanation for the relative positions in the shloka above?
Many thanks beforehand.

Bye,

Girish Beeharry


>?From P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk 19 96 Mar EST 10:16:00
Date: 19 Mar 96 10:16:00 EST
From: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk
Subject: Ramacaritamanas in Nagari/Nastaliq
Reply-To: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

I have recently seen a manuscript of the Ramacaritamanasa copied in AD 1819 
which is in both Nagari and Nastaliq scripts, each page being in two columns,
 one for each script.
I've never seen anything like it before.
I wonder if anyone else has ever seen similar dual script manuscripts of 
famous Hindi works, or for that matter other NIA or Sanskrit works?
Dr Peter G. Friedlander
Cataloguer of Hindi and Panjabi Manuscripts
Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine
183 Euston Road
London NW1 2BN
England
e-mail: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk





From apsss at uohyd.ernet.in  Tue Mar 19 15:45:56 1996
From: apsss at uohyd.ernet.in (apsss at uohyd.ernet.in)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 10:45:56 -0500
Subject: None
Message-ID: <161227023473.23782.14747895714384780484.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

MORE ON MALE EAR-PIERCING

P.V. Kane list 32 books written between the 14th to the 17th
centuries dealing with ritual ceremonies meant for the Sudras
(History of Dharmasastra, i, 640-1). One such the ---
Sudracara Siromani written by Sesakrsna (ed. by Gopinath Kaviraj 2vols
Benares 1933 and 1936 ....The intorduction by Narayana Sastri Khiste
informs us that Sesakrsna wrote this work in the time of Pilaji Rao,
a king of Daksinatya. Further, he is also said to have written the 
Kamsavadham at the behest of Todarmal's son, Giridhari) --- states 
(1,68-69) that although ordinarily the sudras are not allowed samskaras, 
an exception is made to this rule (pratiprasava) by allowing them the rights
to perform the panchamahayajnas, sraddha, garbhadhana, namakarna,niskramana,
annaprasana and karnavedha (ear-piercing
..... It is further stated (i,79-80) that the karnavedha takes the 
place of the yajnopavita in the case of the sudras....
This,in my opinion explains why a large number of Hindu males 
undergo a ear piercing ceremony and are proud of it..
ALOKA PARASHER,
Department of History,
University of Hyderabad  Email: apsss at uohyd.ernet.in
India.
d






From aditya at icanect.net  Tue Mar 19 14:35:06 1996
From: aditya at icanect.net (aditya at icanect.net)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 14:35:06 +0000
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023480.23782.2818135749972274211.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

kellner at hws.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (Birgit Kellner)  has  recently
written as follows:
>Mac or Windows-users. Hence, I would strongly suggest that, until the
>current lcd is replaced by one which allows for Devanagari, let's stick to
>the present conventions. 
That is no convention at all. We do not have any means of
communicating in Devnagri at all. What you propose translates into "If
I cannot have it my way :no one else should have it either"
Have a nice day. 
---------------
Aditya Mishra  
http://www.icanect.net/~aditya   
***********************************************************
The opinions expressed herein are continually mutating and*
might have already been changed  by the time you read them* 
owing to the more recent information that became available*
***********************************************************





From aditya at icanect.net  Tue Mar 19 14:46:34 1996
From: aditya at icanect.net (aditya at icanect.net)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 14:46:34 +0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <161227023483.23782.13327021431184908867.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

apsss at uohyd.ernet.in (Dr Aloka Parasher-Sew)  has  recently written as
follows:
>Sudracara Siromani written by Sesakrsna (ed. by Gopinath Kaviraj 2vols
>Benares 1933 and 1936 ....The intorduction by Narayana Sastri Khiste
>informs us that Sesakrsna wrote this work in the time of Pilaji Rao,
>a king of Daksinatya. Further, he is also said to have written the 
>Kamsavadham at the behest of Todarmal's son, Giridhari) --- states 
>(1,68-69) that although ordinarily the sudras are not allowed samskaras, 
by whom?
>an exception is made to this rule (pratiprasava) by allowing them the rights
>to perform the panchamahayajnas, sraddha, garbhadhana, namakarna,niskramana,
>annaprasana and karnavedha (ear-piercing
>.... It is further stated (i,79-80) that the karnavedha takes the 
>place of the yajnopavita in the case of the sudras....
>This,in my opinion explains why a large number of Hindu males 
>undergo a ear piercing ceremony and are proud of it..
I see nothing to proud of after reading this note about uncle tomism.
It is one thing to study the customs and history but to attach value
to them is a something different. If I were a shudra I would reject
any such humiliation with contempt.
Have a nice day. 
---------------
Aditya Mishra  
http://www.icanect.net/~aditya   
***********************************************************
The opinions expressed herein are continually mutating and*
might have already been changed  by the time you read them* 
owing to the more recent information that became available*
***********************************************************





From ecl6tam at lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk  Tue Mar 19 14:47:21 1996
From: ecl6tam at lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk (Alec McAllister)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 14:47:21 +0000
Subject: Right & Left
Message-ID: <161227023482.23782.10121227855361690595.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In British folk-dancing, the lady is invariably on the man's right 
for the (originally) very practical reason that if she were on the 
left, she'd trip over his sword, which was usually worn on the left.
 
To 20th century urbanites, this is less than obvious, but had a 
perfectly good reason when the dances were being invented. Could 
there have been some similar reason practical reason, now lost, for 
the Indian practice?

Alec McAllister
Arts Computing Development Officer
Computing Service
University of Leeds
United Kingdom
tel 0113 233 3573
email: T.A.McAllister at Leeds.AC.UK





From kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp  Tue Mar 19 07:07:02 1996
From: kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 16:07:02 +0900
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023475.23782.7383520740444395365.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

At 11:13 PM 96.3.18 +0000, Aditya, the Hindu Skeptic wrote:

>Whatever may be our personal preferences, it is indisputable that MS
>has beat all the other system. In the market place it is not always
>the best product that succeeds and I do not have to quote the
>examples.

Whatever may be the situation on the market - the Internet is supposed to
be a platform open to users of all sorts of systems (nobody mentioned OS/2
as yet, or those people who still stick to their old DOS-software), and
because, theoretically speaking, somewhere out there there might be users
who employ their own individual operating system, it's nonsense to step up
from a lowest common denominator-solution to one which would only apply to
Mac or Windows-users. Hence, I would strongly suggest that, until the
current lcd is replaced by one which allows for Devanagari, let's stick to
the present conventions. 







From ericgeer at mindspring.com  Wed Mar 20 01:59:01 1996
From: ericgeer at mindspring.com (Eric Geer)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 20:59:01 -0500
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023485.23782.7181991440245634098.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

At 03:42 PM 3/19/96 GMT, you wrote:
>kellner at hws.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (Birgit Kellner)  has  recently
>written as follows:
>>Mac or Windows-users. Hence, I would strongly suggest that, until the
>>current lcd is replaced by one which allows for Devanagari, let's stick to
>>the present conventions. 
>That is no convention at all. We do not have any means of
>communicating in Devnagri at all. What you propose translates into "If
>I cannot have it my way :no one else should have it either"
>Have a nice day. 
>---------------
>Aditya Mishra  
>http://www.icanect.net/~aditya   
>

  A possible, if awkward solution to this problem would be to create an 
image file (GIF, JPG, FAX) of the text in whatever script.  Every mailer I
know of can send and receive "attached files", in which these could be sent.
The disadvantage, of course, is that the file would not be treated as editable
or quotable text, but as an image and it would have to be read with some
sort of image viewing program.
 
(my sole expertise here is as a programmer/comm. consultant)
 
as ever,
Eric Geer
ericgeer at atl.mindspring.com






From mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk  Wed Mar 20 07:14:57 1996
From: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 07:14:57 +0000
Subject: Right & Left
Message-ID: <161227023487.23782.7967784786287435328.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Michael Rabe writes:

>* In much the same vein, but in total seriousness, my Sanskrit professor
>(a Brahman, Aryasamajist Panjabi) once confided to his chelas that the
>wife's appointed place at her husband's left side originated in bed: the
>better for right-handed men to make love...

This notion is at least as old as the Pali commentaries and probably much older.

L.S. Cousins


MANCHESTER, UK
Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk







From elmar at philosophie.uni-tuebingen.de  Wed Mar 20 09:22:12 1996
From: elmar at philosophie.uni-tuebingen.de (elmar at philosophie.uni-tuebingen.de)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 10:22:12 +0100
Subject: legal aspects of ancient indian medicine II
Message-ID: <161227023489.23782.10166712423816616768.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


I came across L. Sternbachs (1965) "Juridical Studies in Ancient Indian
Law". Chapter VIII "Legal Position of Physicians in Ancient Indian Law"
covers the subject very well. Thanks for the help.

Elmar Stapelfeldt
University of Tuebingen, Germany







From athr at loc.gov  Wed Mar 20 17:02:36 1996
From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 12:02:36 -0500
Subject: Right & Left
Message-ID: <161227023498.23782.6651909732317473786.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Could it be that the TEXTUAL sources say the wife (or other female) 
should be on one side, left or right, but are not clear whether this 
means what in heraldry is called the "proper" right or left, i.e. the 
side as viewed from the image's own viewpoint, or the right or left as 
viewed by an observer, and that this point has been interpreted 
differently in different times, places, and groups?  To explain the 
concept of "proper" side again:  if a statue of Parvati is placed on 
Siva's "proper" right it is next to Siva's right arm, but as a viewer 
looks at it it will be to the left of Siva.


Allen W. Thrasher

Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Library of Congress
Washington, DC 20540-4744
tel. 202-707-5600
fax  202-707-1724
Email: athr at loc.gov






From athr at loc.gov  Wed Mar 20 18:28:06 1996
From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 13:28:06 -0500
Subject: Ramacaritamanas in Nagari/Nastaliq
Message-ID: <161227023500.23782.316462402070621361.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have not seen that in manuscripts but have purchased several biscriptal 
printed editions (Nagari/Perso-Arabic) of Sanskrit religious classics in 
Kashmir.  The Perso-Arabic was a transliteration not a translation.


Allen Thrasher


On Tue, 19 Mar 1996 P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk wrote:

> I have recently seen a manuscript of the Ramacaritamanasa copied in AD 1819 
> which is in both Nagari and Nastaliq scripts, each page being in two columns,
>  one for each script.
> I've never seen anything like it before.
> I wonder if anyone else has ever seen similar dual script manuscripts of 
> famous Hindi works, or for that matter other NIA or Sanskrit works?
> Dr Peter G. Friedlander
> Cataloguer of Hindi and Panjabi Manuscripts
> Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine
> 183 Euston Road
> London NW1 2BN
> England
> e-mail: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk
> 
> 





From RKASTHAGIRI at miavx3.mid.muohio.edu  Wed Mar 20 18:46:09 1996
From: RKASTHAGIRI at miavx3.mid.muohio.edu (RKASTHAGIRI at miavx3.mid.muohio.edu)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 13:46:09 -0500
Subject: khajuraho temple
Message-ID: <161227023502.23782.6004951375832534521.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Recently, much has been said about this temple on its face value towards
its sexual attractions. I truly believe that theinner meaning of a Hindu
temple signifying peace and the Almighty's grace is not missing in this
temple too. In fact, the people who built it wants to show the outward
the Maya of this life and the inner with the lord symbolising the ultimate
goal of life for a spiritual uplift. I have not observed any hindu going
to a temple with second thoughts on his faith in Almighty for peace and   
His grace.           





From C.Wooff at liverpool.ac.uk  Wed Mar 20 14:14:16 1996
From: C.Wooff at liverpool.ac.uk (Chris Wooff)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 14:14:16 +0000
Subject: Changes to the way we run the list
Message-ID: <161227023493.23782.4780423441254567032.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

With immediate effect only those people who are members of the
Indology list will be able to make postings. We hope this step
will go some way towards alleviating recent problems.

IMPORTANT NOTE
Please note that the membership list contains the email address
you had *at the time you joined the list*. Even if you routinely 
receive Indology postings this does not necessarily make you a
"member". Many sites periodically change what appears in the
From: field of your email whilst continuing to accept email to
the older address. If you are one of these users then you will
continue to receive mail but will not be able to post.

I will see all failed attempts to post and will deal with them
as they occur. This will be achieved by correcting subscriptions.

If it becomes problematic to run the list in this way we may have
to revert. However, it is certainly worth trying.

In a seperate mail item I'll send you a list of subscribers so
that you can if you wish alert me to any "old" addresses.

Chris Wooff (list owner)





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Wed Mar 20 17:19:55 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 17:19:55 +0000
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023511.23782.6890718029371437454.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Birgit Kellner said:
> 
> [...] all sorts of systems (nobody mentioned OS/2
> as yet, [...]

I have been using OS/2 as my main platform for several years, and I
think it combines the very best qualities of Windows, DOS, and Unix in a
single product.  It is very stable (never crashes) and a wonderful
platform for communications of all sorts.  A happy customer.

Dominik Wujastyk


> Hence, I would strongly suggest that, until the
> current lcd is replaced by one which allows for Devanagari, let's stick to
> the present conventions. 

Yes, indeed.

The issue of Devanagari representation of Sanskrit text is, in any case,
not of great importance in contemporary indological scholarship.
Indologists are all used to reading and writing books, journals, and
indeed entire Sanskrit texts, in romanization.  And historically, of
course, Devanagari is not by any means the only script that has been
used to record Sanskrit.  It is attractive and "natural" in a way, but
romanization also has its advantages for representing certain linguistic
and semantic features.

I do think, however, that since Devanagari is now so easy to typeset,
some of the journals like BSOAS, JAOS, JRAS, IIJ, etc., might consider
admitting the use of Devanagari in some articles, if desired.

Dominik Wujastyk





From kharimot at sas.upenn.edu  Wed Mar 20 23:13:03 1996
From: kharimot at sas.upenn.edu (Kengo Harimoto)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 18:13:03 -0500
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023506.23782.6695153465885676514.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Members of the list:

There was an annnoucement a few weeks ago that Adobe, Apple (and 
Netscape?) are developing a technology that enables users to transfer 
documents that include font information and fonts themselves (as current 
pdf) over Internet.  Although this technology is primarily meant to be 
used by web publishers, it seems poosible to attach such documents to an 
e-mail and read them using future version of Netscape Navigator or any 
other MIME compliant e-mailer.  I think vast majority of users are now 
using Netscape Navigator especially those who are at educational 
institutes since it is free to them. 

Even now, if one is not afraid of sending huge size of e-mail, 
PostScript file that include font can be sent and viewed/printed on most 
of platforms.  I believe the above mentioned new technology is an 
extension of this technology.

So, I think the future is rather bright.

By the way, Apple is reportedly planning to release Indian Language Kit 
(at last).

It seems that software developers are not as stupid as to neglect nearly 
billion population.

-- Kengo





From aditya at icanect.net  Wed Mar 20 23:01:20 1996
From: aditya at icanect.net (aditya at icanect.net)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 23:01:20 +0000
Subject: Glossary of Sanskrit Terms. Need 10 people 15 minutes daily for a  month
Message-ID: <161227023504.23782.10474460279736659126.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Nandu Abhyankar <abhyankn at plk.af.mil> has recently written an
interesting message which I am forwarding since it may be of interest
to many of you as well.:

                                                Happy New Year
                                                chaitra pratipadaa
                                                varshhapratipadaa
                                                yugaadii
                                                March 20, 1996
Dear friends,

This is a message regarding glossary of Sanskrit terms.
Please read it carefully since it has a long-term/far-reaching
consequences on the glossary preparation, the planned
work of many minds accessing Sanskrit digest!

We encourage your participation whole-heartedly to show any
significant achievement.

The planned work is an on-line one-line meaning representation of
a large collection of Sanskrit words.

There is an on-going project of encoding
Monier-Williams' dictionary for on-line use. The work is initiated
in Europe, and will be useful since it will give a wider
understanding of each Sanskrit word.  It is also a scholarly work,
although we do not know its copyright implications or possible cost
involved.
(http://www.uni-koeln.de/phil-fak/indologie/index.html).

We realize that everyone interested in Sanskrit
must have a printed/published, well prepared , personal
Sanskrit-English-Sanskrit type dictionary.  This is mainly because
Sanskrit, or any language for that matter, should not/cannot be learnt
by
sitting in front of computer screen, although it may be the future
trend!

So our attempt is not to substitute other dictionaries but provide
something complementary and comprehensive, something for ready 
reference when the access to your living room dictionary 
copy is not possible!

With this relevant introduction, let us try to understand what has
already
been done to create an example of Sanskrit words glossary/dictionary 
consisting of about 2500 words.  
We expect that you will join us in providing additional help.

The glossary is available for browsing, word-searching,
and adding more words in a certain format.  Please access it using
Web-URL
http://reality.sgi.com/employees/atul/sanskrit/sanskrit.html
under the category of Sanskrit Dictionary.

You can use the search procedure to do meaningful searches based on 
prefix or exact words strictly according to the ITRANS transliteration
scheme.

You can directly browse the present version of the dictionary file
which
has words in the format
Devanagari (English transliteration) = meaning
The file is kept for reading only.  The words are arranged in the
Devanagari letter sequence with little modifications.

We request that you visit words-add page and add meanings to Sanskrit
words
in the format
word = meaning
one per line.  After adding your list you can browse a file addlist
in http://reality.sgi.com/employees/atul/sanskrit location to check
if your entry is included.  Please note that it is important that you
follow a strict ITRANS transliteration to avoid hours of editting 
by a volunteer later on.  This addlist will then be processed
to enlarge the existing version of the word-meaning pair.  

If web/www access is not possible from your computer, please let us
know
so that we can place a file for FTP access or email it directly.

Anyone interested in the programming procedure or in assisting in
software efforts should contact Atul Narkhede atul at sgi.com .
All the software scripts are written in Perl for Unix-based
workstations.

Independently we request you to prepare short files with
word = meaning
pair one on each line.  Other suggestion is to take-up a small stotra
available on jaguar site, 
(ftp://jaguar.cs.utah.edu/private/sanskrit/sanskrit.html)
split-it into words and give meanings to the shloka
and words, as a result we will have both word/meaning pair as well
as meanings to the stotra-s.
For a list of large number of words please access
sanshab.itx(or sanshab_557_pages.ps) from jaguar site.

Our expectation is that ten people would spend 15 minutes of
their time *daily* to give us 20 word/meaning pairs per day for at 
least a month.  Can we do that?  5000 words per month, more the
better!
After such a collection, it will be editted to eliminate typing
errors.
That leads us to request you to give accurate transliteration and
meanings.

We consider it a beginning and your cooperation is invaluable!

Please join us in providing an on-line preliminary Sanskrit words
glossary,
one among many Sanskrit related projects presented at jaguar site.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Have a nice day. 
---------------
Aditya Mishra  
http://www.icanect.net/~aditya   
***********************************************************
The opinions expressed herein are continually mutating and*
might have already been changed  by the time you read them* 
owing to the more recent information that became available*
***********************************************************





From kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp  Wed Mar 20 15:54:07 1996
From: kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (Birgit Kellner)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 00:54:07 +0900
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023495.23782.7003959415577895553.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Aditya Mishra wrote; 

>>kellner at hws.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (Birgit Kellner)  has  recently
>>written as follows:
>>>Mac or Windows-users. Hence, I would strongly suggest that, until the
>>>current lcd is replaced by one which allows for Devanagari, let's stick to
>>>the present conventions. 
>>That is no convention at all. We do not have any means of
>>communicating in Devnagri at all. What you propose translates into "If
>>I cannot have it my way :no one else should have it either"
>>Have a nice day. 
>>---------------
>>Aditya Mishra  
>>http://www.icanect.net/~aditya
??? If I cannot have it my way, no one else should have it my way either ???
   
Anyway, my proposition rather translates into "If not everybody can have it
(=devanagari-e-mail) in one way, it is better for all not to have it, so
that all can have at least have something (=communication in
transliteration) in some way". 

As long as there is no lowest common denominator for ALL operating systems,
I'd rather stick to transliteration than restricting communication by
favouring solutions which are only possible on some operating systems, that
is, and that's all I have to say on this matter. 













From cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu  Thu Mar 21 12:23:15 1996
From: cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu (cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 07:23:15 -0500
Subject: hAla's _gAthA saptas'ati_
Message-ID: <161227023512.23782.16562676821750147034.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Greetings!
>
>Yesterday while reading _telugu vijn~Ana sarwaswamu_ came across a reference
>to hAla's _gAthA saptas'ati_ published by Weber (?) in 1811 in Germany. Is
>any one aware of this version? If yes, could you please tell me more about
>it! I was earlier told that the existing (modern) versions are incomplete
>and contain many mistakes. How far is this true?
>
>Regards,
>Sreenivas
>
>  E-Mail: sreeni at ktpsp1.uni-paderborn.de
In addition to Weber's edition and translation (Halle, 1881), you may be
interested in the following: The GAthAsaptazatI of SAtavAhan, with the
commentary of GangAdharabhaTTa, edited by DurgAprasAd and KaxInAth
PaNDurang Parab (KAvyamAlA 21); Bombay, Nirnayasagar Pr., 1889;
KavivatsalahAlasAtavAhanaviracitA GAthAsaptazatI (GAhAsattasaI), savimarx
'PrakAxa' hind^vyAkhyopetA (KSS 192), Varanasi, Chowkhamba, 1969.  A fairly
recent edition of a related work, the VajjAlaggam (ed. M. V. Patwardhan,
Ahmedabad, 1969 [Prakrit Text Society Series 14]), has a good introduction,
including a listing of verses common to the VajjAlaggam and the
GAthAsaptazatI.  George Cardona







From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Mar 21 12:58:39 1996
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 07:58:39 -0500
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023514.23782.48483173862455211.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	The issue of being able to use Devanagari on a network like 
Indology carries a possible assumption that one may not only be quoting 
texts using this script, but that one may also wish to communicate by 
using those languages like Hindi which use Devanagari as their normal 
script.  While I see the merit of being able to communicate using Hindi 
or Marathi for a certain group of users of those languages, Indology as a 
group is well served by using means which are most widely available to 
all participants.  Here we are interested in discussing issues related to 
Indological matters, rather than present ourselves as users of specific 
languages or scripts.  To this extent, I would rather like to see the use 
of romanization continued.
	However, I agree with Dominik that a time has indeed come to 
start using Indian scripts in our western journals and other 
publications.  Even here, I have a feeling that we must make a 
distinction between citations or editions of texts and non-western words 
being discussed in a western language.  While the citations and editions 
should preferably be in a native script such as Devanagari, individual 
words being discussed should be romanized to make that discussion 
accessible to a wider audience.
	Some recent publications have taken the question of script to 
another possibility:  using both Devanagari and Roman transcriptions of 
citations and texts side by side.  Bob Hueckstedt's book on 'iko yaN aci' 
and Cardona's books have followed this pattern.  Personally I think this 
leads to unnecessary prolixity and destroys too many trees.  Anyone who 
can be presumed to read a book in English can be presumed to read 
Romanized Sanskrit, or one can make a judicious (?) decision to leave all 
textual citations in Nagari.  I do not see the need to put each citation 
in both the scripts.
	Hope this is some food for thought.
		All the best,

				Madhav Deshpande

On Thu, 21 Mar 1996, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

> Birgit Kellner said:
> > 
> > [...] all sorts of systems (nobody mentioned OS/2
> > as yet, [...]
> 
> I have been using OS/2 as my main platform for several years, and I
> think it combines the very best qualities of Windows, DOS, and Unix in a
> single product.  It is very stable (never crashes) and a wonderful
> platform for communications of all sorts.  A happy customer.
> 
> Dominik Wujastyk
> 
> 
> > Hence, I would strongly suggest that, until the
> > current lcd is replaced by one which allows for Devanagari, let's stick to
> > the present conventions. 
> 
> Yes, indeed.
> 
> The issue of Devanagari representation of Sanskrit text is, in any case,
> not of great importance in contemporary indological scholarship.
> Indologists are all used to reading and writing books, journals, and
> indeed entire Sanskrit texts, in romanization.  And historically, of
> course, Devanagari is not by any means the only script that has been
> used to record Sanskrit.  It is attractive and "natural" in a way, but
> romanization also has its advantages for representing certain linguistic
> and semantic features.
> 
> I do think, however, that since Devanagari is now so easy to typeset,
> some of the journals like BSOAS, JAOS, JRAS, IIJ, etc., might consider
> admitting the use of Devanagari in some articles, if desired.
> 
> Dominik Wujastyk
> 
> 





From sreeni at ktp.uni-paderborn.de  Thu Mar 21 08:07:51 1996
From: sreeni at ktp.uni-paderborn.de (Sreenivas Paruchuri)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 09:07:51 +0100
Subject: hAla's _gAthA saptas'ati_
Message-ID: <161227023507.23782.17755100384139343709.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Greetings!

Yesterday while reading _telugu vijn~Ana sarwaswamu_ came across a reference
to hAla's _gAthA saptas'ati_ published by Weber (?) in 1811 in Germany. Is
any one aware of this version? If yes, could you please tell me more about
it! I was earlier told that the existing (modern) versions are incomplete
and contain many mistakes. How far is this true?

Regards,
Sreenivas

  E-Mail: sreeni at ktpsp1.uni-paderborn.de





From roesleru at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE  Thu Mar 21 08:13:25 1996
From: roesleru at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE (Roesler Ulrike)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 10:13:25 +0200
Subject: hAla's _gAthA saptas'ati_
Message-ID: <161227023509.23782.18001604704655380433.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Thu, 21 Mar 1996 08:13:37 GMT, Sreenivas Paruchuri wrote:

>Greetings!
>
>Yesterday while reading _telugu vijn~Ana sarwaswamu_ came across a reference
>to hAla's _gAthA saptas'ati_ published by Weber (?) in 1811 in Germany. Is
>any one aware of this version? If yes, could you please tell me more about
>it! I was earlier told that the existing (modern) versions are incomplete
>and contain many mistakes. How far is this true?
>
>Regards,
>Sreenivas
>
>  E-Mail: sreeni at ktpsp1.uni-paderborn.de



Weber's edition and german translation is from 1881. The title is: "Das 
sapta'sataka des HAla.





From cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu  Thu Mar 21 16:58:54 1996
From: cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu (George Cardona)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 11:58:54 -0500
Subject: Why not a definitive devnagri font
Message-ID: <161227023516.23782.14433207201518085951.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Since Madhav Deshpande has mentioned my work in connection with this
discussion, let me add a few words.  Although I do not say this explicitly, my
practice has been this: sutras and examples are given both in Devanagari and
Roman script.  The former is intended for those scholars who, even though they
read English, prefer to read Sanskrit text in Devanagari; the latter is for
those linguists and others who are not primarily Sanskritists but are
interested in rules and examples.  For other citations, of commentators'
discussions, for example, only   Devanagari is used, under the assumption that the
material in question is of interest primarily to the Indologist.  As for
journal practices: given that a journal like the JAOS routinely uses Arabic and
Cyrillic and Chinese scripts, there is no reason in principle why Indian
scripts too should not be used.  For communicating on a network such as this,
on the other hand, it may well be simplest to stick to transliterations, most
of which are not all that hard.  The audience is such that this would appear
adequate.  George Cardona









From magier at columbia.edu  Fri Mar 22 11:52:40 1996
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 06:52:40 -0500
Subject: Pali Canon Online
Message-ID: <161227023520.23782.4846724695579482628.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> It is with great pleasure that I can announce that the first public domain
> version of the tipi.taka in Pali is now available from the websites of the
> Journal of Buddhist Ethics:
> 
> U.K.
> http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe/
> 
> U.S.A.
> http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/

This is great. Many thanks for this valuable work.
By the way, the URL above was listed incompletely. The full URL is:

http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/jbe.html

The direct link to the tipitaka is:

http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/ibric.html

Thanks again.
David Magier






From mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk  Fri Mar 22 09:53:06 1996
From: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 09:53:06 +0000
Subject: Pali Canon Online
Message-ID: <161227023519.23782.7145520615197508444.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It is with great pleasure that I can announce that the first public domain
version of the tipi.taka in Pali is now available from the websites of the
Journal of Buddhist Ethics:

U.K.
http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe/

U.S.A.
http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/

Initially, only the files for the Macintosh have been posted. We hope,
however, to post those for DOS/Windows within a week or two, file
conversions permitting. The files are SEAs. (Ignore files with the
extension .MAC).

This is something of a historic event in Buddhist and Pali Studies, I
believe and even in their present form the files are most valuable. They
have been working hard at IBRIC in Sri Lanka to further proofread the files
for the first of the planned three monthly updates. So in the course of the
coming year we expect to be able to considerably improve the accuracy,
especially of the text of the first four Nikaayas.

L.S. Cousins,

on behalf of:

IBRIC and JBE

MANCHESTER, UK
Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk







From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Sat Mar 23 15:01:49 1996
From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 96 10:01:49 -0500
Subject: Summer Sanskrit at Harvard (II)
Message-ID: <161227023522.23782.17301626168545702634.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



On Thu, 01 Feb 1996 I gave some details on this year's offering of 

                 SUMMER SANSKRIT at HARVARD.


In the meantime, the definite catalogue has come out and the data below 
reflect this year's schedule, fees, etc.

I repeat the salient features below.

Like last year, I got several inquiries regarding our offering of Introductory 
Sanskrit this summer, -- taught here since 1988. Last summer's course (10 
"takers" from the mid-west to the south-east) was very enjoyable, indeed the 
best I have had here.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


  SANS S-101 Elementary Sanskrit 
  (8 units)  Monday-Thursday 3:30 - 6 p.m.
  June 24 - August 16;  exam period Aug. 13-16
  Instructor: Michael Witzel 
   
  This course, equivalent to two semesters of course work, will 
  enable students to acquire the basic reading skills in Sanskrit. Stress
  will be placed on learning the Devanagari script, basic grammar and 
  essential vocabulary. Emphasis will also be given to correct 
  translation of passages from simple narrative literature to the epics.
  

Fees: Application fee (nonrefundable $35)
      
Tuition (credit or non-credit): 8 unit course: $ 2,820

      Health insurance  $95 (required if not covered by an American 
             carrier) 
      
      On-campus housing (if desired):  room and board, eight week session:
             $ 2,360     
             (Housing deposit $ 510)  

Registration by mail, fax (credit card only, with full tuition and fees)
through June 5.

Late registration  June 6 - June 28 ($50 late fee).

Catalogues/Information 
from Harvard Summer School, 51 Brattle Street, Cambridge MA 
02138, USA
phone 617- 495 4024 


On-line catalogue:
=================

http://www.harvard.edu/summer

gopher.harvard.edu

Telnet:  vine.harvard.edu  (at the login type: courses and RETURN)
 
via modem:  617 496 8500, 
            choose option 4 (vine): 
            select Harv.Univ. course catalogs    
            then elect Summer school for catalogue and all other info.

For assistance call 617 496 2001 (Monday-Friday 9am-5pm)


--------------------------------------------------------------------


Michael Witzel                              Department of Sanskrit
Wales Professor of Sanskrit                 and Indian Studies
Chair, Committee on South Asian Studies     53 Church Street
Harvard University                          Cambridge MA 02138, USA

phones: - 1- 617 - 495 3295 (messages)      Electronic Journal of
                   496 8570                 Vedic Studies
fax:               496 8571                 EJVS-list at shore.net
email:  witzel at husc3.harvard.edu            http://www.shore.net/~india/ejvs











From mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk  Sat Mar 23 15:30:26 1996
From: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 96 15:30:26 +0000
Subject: Pali Canon Online
Message-ID: <161227023525.23782.9091750534406485409.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

David Magier writes:

>> U.K.
>> http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe/

>> U.S.A.
>> http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/
>
>This is great. Many thanks for this valuable work.
>By the way, the URL above was listed incompletely. The full URL is:
>
>http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/jbe.html

I didn't give this because it didn't work when I tested it the other day on
one of the two websites, but perhaps my browser was misbehaving.

Lance Cousins

MANCHESTER, UK
Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk







From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no  Sat Mar 23 15:54:27 1996
From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 96 16:54:27 +0100
Subject: Pali Canon Online
Message-ID: <161227023527.23782.4271128622714147365.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>David Magier writes:
>
>>> U.K.
>>> http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe/
>
>>> U.S.A.
>>> http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/
>>
>>This is great. Many thanks for this valuable work.
>>By the way, the URL above was listed incompletely. The full URL is:
>>
>>http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/jbe.html
>
>I didn't give this because it didn't work when I tested it the other day on
>one of the two websites, but perhaps my browser was misbehaving.
>
>Lance Cousins

I had the same experience. I have tried to transfer texts to my harddisk,
but things don't work out the way they are supposed to. I get something
down on my harddisk, but it is garbled. Any suggestions, anyone?

Lars Martin Fosse



Lars Martin Fosse
Research Fellow
Department of East European
and Oriental Studies
P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
N-0315 OSLO Norway

Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
Fax: +47 22 85 41 40

E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no







From magier at columbia.edu  Mon Mar 25 12:26:27 1996
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 96 07:26:27 -0500
Subject: Pali Canon Online
Message-ID: <161227023529.23782.18051298542505395552.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> >>> U.K.
> >>> http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe/
> >
> >>> U.S.A.
> >>> http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/
> >>
> >>This is great. Many thanks for this valuable work.
> >>By the way, the URL above was listed incompletely. The full URL is:
> >>
> >>http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/jbe.html
> >
> >I didn't give this because it didn't work when I tested it the other day on
> >one of the two websites, but perhaps my browser was misbehaving.
> 
> I had the same experience. I have tried to transfer texts to my harddisk,
> but things don't work out the way they are supposed to. I get something
> down on my harddisk, but it is garbled. Any suggestions, anyone?

I connected without trouble to the page at
www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/jbe.html and then had no difficulty getting and
installing the (Mac) Normyn fonts (just drop them in your FONTS
folder), and then downloading and displaying/printing the pali files.
They looked beautiful.

David Magier





From mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk  Mon Mar 25 13:49:59 1996
From: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 96 14:49:59 +0100
Subject: Pali Canon Online
Message-ID: <161227023531.23782.17660224363582952556.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

David Magier and Lars Fosse wrote:

>>>> http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe/
>>
>>>> U.S.A.
>>>> http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/
>>>
>>>This is great. Many thanks for this valuable work.
>>>By the way, the URL above was listed incompletely. The full URL is:
>>>
>>>http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/jbe.html
>>
>>I didn't give this because it didn't work when I tested it the other day on
>>one of the two websites, but perhaps my browser was misbehaving.

I have now tested all four possibilities. The results were:
U.K.
Both http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe/ and http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe/jbe.html
worked fine.
U.S.
http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/jbe.html worked fine.
http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/ produced a filelist from which you could select
jbe.html, whereupon everything worted fine.

This is a different result to my previous test!

>I had the same experience. I have tried to transfer texts to my harddisk,
>but things don't work out the way they are supposed to. I get something
>down on my harddisk, but it is garbled. Any suggestions, anyone?

I have test-downloaded successfully. Some browsers seem to have problems
recognizing the extension .SEA (for self-extracting archive) and either
don't download or perhaps download as TEXT instead of binary. In such a
case it might be necessary to ensure that e.g. under helper applications
Stuffit is set to accept .SEA as well as .SIT extensions.

If you are trying to access by ftp, then the files must be downloaded in
binary mode.

We could put the files up in binhexed form so that they would download as
text, but they would be very large that way; so we are trying to avoid
that.

If none of the above covers your case, Lars, please email me with further
details.

Lance Cousins


MANCHESTER, UK
Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk







From mmdesh at umich.edu  Tue Mar 26 13:31:00 1996
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 08:31:00 -0500
Subject: Pali Canon Online
Message-ID: <161227023533.23782.14069404885499451745.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	I have a suggestion for those who are managing the Tripitaka 
files at this website.  One of the 'sea' archive files, KN.sea, is too 
large to fit on a high-density floppy disk, and that makes it rather 
difficult to move it from one computer to another after downloading.  May 
I suggest that it be split into two archives such as 'KN1.sea' and 
'KN2.sea'.  This would make moving these files between the computers 
easier.  Otherwise, I have to 'extract' the contents on one machine and 
move the extracted files to the other machine.
	Thanks.
		Madhav Deshpande

On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, L.S.Cousins wrote:

> It is with great pleasure that I can announce that the first public domain
> version of the tipi.taka in Pali is now available from the websites of the
> Journal of Buddhist Ethics:
> 
> U.K.
> http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe/
> 
> U.S.A.
> http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/
> 
> Initially, only the files for the Macintosh have been posted. We hope,
> however, to post those for DOS/Windows within a week or two, file
> conversions permitting. The files are SEAs. (Ignore files with the
> extension .MAC).
> 
> This is something of a historic event in Buddhist and Pali Studies, I
> believe and even in their present form the files are most valuable. They
> have been working hard at IBRIC in Sri Lanka to further proofread the files
> for the first of the planned three monthly updates. So in the course of the
> coming year we expect to be able to considerably improve the accuracy,
> especially of the text of the first four Nikaayas.
> 
> L.S. Cousins,
> 
> on behalf of:
> 
> IBRIC and JBE
> 
> MANCHESTER, UK
> Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 





From rdsaran at umich.edu  Tue Mar 26 22:13:28 1996
From: rdsaran at umich.edu (Richard D. Saran)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 17:13:28 -0500
Subject: crossbow
Message-ID: <161227023535.23782.10175768950618427410.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I am interested in the use of the crossbow in South Asia before 1700.  
Can someone recall depictions of this weapon in painting or sculpture?  
Thanks,
Richard Saran.





From ramakrishnan at mail.utexas.edu  Tue Mar 26 15:30:00 1996
From: ramakrishnan at mail.utexas.edu (ramakrishnan at mail.utexas.edu)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 21:00:00 +0530
Subject: The Texas Tamil Festival, Austin
Message-ID: <161227023537.23782.8726101313608613076.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

From: Tamil Students Association <tamilsa at www.utexas.edu>

TEXAS TAMIL FESTIVAL
Saturday, April 6, 1996 2:00 pm -9:30 pm
Venues: Graduate School of Business (GSB) and Batts Hall
The University of Texas at Austin

A festival of art, music, dance and illustrated talks reflective 
of the unique cultural traditions of Tamil Nadu, South India

------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Dancing Shiva and His Saints: Bronze sculptures and Devotion
Talk by Dr. David Sanford, Wheaton College, MA

Dr. David Sanford  is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Art 
at Wheaton College, Massachusetts. His research interests are in South 
Indian temple arts, particularly the images and stories associated with 
them. He has spent seven years of field research in South and South-East 
Asia, with particular focus on Tamil Nadu and Kerala.  He will speak on 
the sculptures of the dancing aspect of Shiva and the traditions of 
devotion associated with Shiva worship.  Such traditions are of general 
interest as they have provided much impetus for the development of arts,
literature, and music in South India. (GSB 2.124. 2:00-3:00 pm)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Thirukkural: Translator's Dream or Nightmare?
Talk by Dr. Norman Cutler, University of Chicago

Dr. Norman Cutler is an Associate Professor of Tamil in the Department 
of South Asian Languages and Civilizations at the University of Chicago. 
His areas of erudition are Tamil literature, poetics and literary criticism. 
The subject of his talk will be the Thirukkural,  a poem  of over a
thousand didactic verses composed more than 2000 years ago by celebrated
saint-poet Thiruvalluvar. The Kural, which describes the socio-cultural
values of  
early Tamil civilization, has received more public and scholarly attention 
than any other Tamil text, ancient or modern.  Not only is the Kural the 
most intensely studied Tamil text, but since the early 19th century it 
is also the most frequently translated.  Though English translations 
abound, the allure of the  Kural has not diminished for aspiring 
translators.  In his talk Dr. Cutler will explore the nature of its 
universal appeal and the challenges it poses for its translators. 
(GSB 2.124, 3:00-4:00 pm)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Exhibition of Arts, Crafts and Wedding Customs of Tamil Nadu
(GSB 2.125 4-5.30 pm)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Ritu Samhaaram: Pageant of Seasons
Danseuse Pavithra Prasad and Orchestra from Madras

A classical Indian dance-drama that blends lyricism and dance in the 
Bharatanaatyam style. Danseuse Pavithra Prasad has regaled audiences 
around the world for over ten years. She will be accompanied by an 
orchestra consisting of V. Uma Mahesh (voice), T. K. Padmanabhan (violin)
and G. Vijayaraghavan (percussion).  The theme of her presentation will 
be Ritu Samhaaram  or Pageant of the Seasons. This adaptation is based 
on the immortal Sanskrit poem attributed to poet Kalidasa  (6th century AD). 
(Batts 7, 7:00-9:30 pm)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

FREE ADMISSION TO ABOVE EVENTS

South Indian food available at venue between 5.30 and 6.45 pm
@ $5 for adults & $2 for children 12 and under

Sponsored by

Tamil Students Association &
Texas Union CoSponsorship Review Board
The University of Texas at Austin

For more information and directions to the venue
contact tamilsa at www.utexas.edu

-------------------------------------------------------------------------






From mrabe at artic.edu  Wed Mar 27 09:17:22 1996
From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 04:17:22 -0500
Subject: crossbow
Message-ID: <161227023540.23782.8961586151468875663.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>I am interested in the use of the crossbow in South Asia before 1700.
>Can someone recall depictions of this weapon in painting or sculpture?
>Thanks,
>Richard Saran.

Firearms yes, but not the crossbow, in the arms of equestrian
pillar-figures on the Kalyanamandapam of the Varadaraja Perumal temple,
Kanchipuran, c. 1700.







From srini at engin.umich.edu  Wed Mar 27 18:30:44 1996
From: srini at engin.umich.edu (Srinivasan Pichumani)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 13:30:44 -0500
Subject: World Sanskrit Conference topics
Message-ID: <161227023546.23782.3371039874274648138.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>>the list of topics being used to organize
>>the 1997 World Sanskrit Conference

you mean there is no

	Sanskrit and Beavis&Butthead  ?

In that case, I won't be attending...

Sorry,
-Srini.

;-)





From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov  Wed Mar 27 20:02:43 1996
From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 14:02:43 -0600
Subject: GathasaptashatI
Message-ID: <161227023549.23782.14095284154960618516.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



      Ancient Love Poems
     ********************

Hala's GathasaptashatI has been beautifully rendered into tamil.
The translator employs tamil sangam akam poetry ("Poems of Interior
Landscape) as the model to translate.

mu. ku. jakannAtarAjA, kAtA captacatI, vicuvacAn^ti patippakam,
Rajapalayam, 1983, 650 p.


Comparisons between ancient prakrit & tamil poems:

1) D. Nadarajah, Love in Sanskrit & Tamil literature:
a study of characters and nature, 200B.C. to A.D. 500
M. Banarsidass, 1994, 333 p.

2) K. S. Srinivasan, Love poems of anient India:
an anthology of songs in Prakrit, tamil and sanskrit, New Delhi, 1987, 110 p.

3) G. L. Hart, The relationship between classical Sanskrit & tamil literature.

4) T. Takahashi, Tamil love poetry and poetics,
E. J. Brill: Leiden, 1995 225 p.


N. Ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Mar 27 20:43:32 1996
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 15:43:32 -0500
Subject: crossbow
Message-ID: <161227023551.23782.14317580451901715852.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	One may find some interesting information regarding the use of 
specific types of bows in India in an article by M.B. Emeneau: "The 
Composite Bow in India".  This is included in the volume: Sanskrit 
Studies of M.B. Emeneau, Select Papers, edited by B.A. van Nooren, Center 
for South and Southeast Asia Studies, University of California, Berkeley, 
1988.
	Madhav Deshpande





From dmenon at pacific.net.sg  Wed Mar 27 08:05:34 1996
From: dmenon at pacific.net.sg (dmenon at pacific.net.sg)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 16:05:34 +0800
Subject: Siri Boovalaya..
Message-ID: <161227023538.23782.8606207601046035880.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anyone have information on the Kannada work 'Siri Boovalaya'. Any
information is most appreciated.

Thanks & Regards...Das






From mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk  Wed Mar 27 15:06:41 1996
From: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 16:06:41 +0100
Subject: Pali Canon Online
Message-ID: <161227023541.23782.9334063466939538203.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Madhav Deshpande writes:

        I have a suggestion for those who are managing the Tripitaka
files at this website.  One of the 'sea' archive files, KN.sea, is too
large to fit on a high-density floppy disk, and that makes it rather
difficult to move it from one computer to another after downloading.  May
I suggest that it be split into two archives such as 'KN1.sea' and
'KN2.sea'.  This would make moving these files between the computers
easier.  Otherwise, I have to 'extract' the contents on one machine and
move the extracted files to the other machine.

Yes, it is rather a nuisance. I will try and arrange for a different
arrangement for the update in three months time. We have had a lot of
difficulties getting this sorted out, but hopefully we can avoid many of
the problems next time round.

Lance Cousins

MANCHESTER, UK
Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk







From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Wed Mar 27 16:29:18 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 16:29:18 +0000
Subject: From comp.fonts: Bitstream unicode font
Message-ID: <161227023543.23782.10092327575424187060.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



Forwarded message, from the comp.fonts newsgroup:

> From: ge86 at c3.hrz.uni-giessen.de (Berthold Frommann)
> Subject: Unicode fonts
> Date: 20 Mar 1996 10:24:59 GMT
> Organization: Hochschulrechenzentrum (HRZ) der Universitaet Giessen
> Message-ID: <4iomdr$10d9 at c4.hrz.uni-giessen.de>
> 
> Hi all!
> Bitstream is about to release a Unicode-font called "Cyberbit". The first 
> release will be in Q1; including Latin*, Cyrillic, Greek, Devanagari, 
> Kana, Arabic, and Hebrew.
> The second release (Q2) will also include CJK.
> And the best: the roman version will be free of charge!!!
> If you want italic etc. derivates, you'll have to pay... :|
> 
> This font will be pretty large - several megs.
> 
> Greetings,
>    Berthold
> 
> P.S.: Please inform me if you get to know more about the whole topic 
>       "Unicode".
> 
> Berthold.Frommann at anorg.chemie.uni-giessen.de 







From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Wed Mar 27 16:46:36 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 16:46:36 +0000
Subject: World Sanskrit Conference topics
Message-ID: <161227023544.23782.15779721717104316926.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have been informed that the list of topics being used to organize the
1997 World Sanskrit Conference has been modified, and now stands as
follows:

  Sections

  1    Agamas and Tantras
  2    Art, Architecture and Archaeology
  3    Buddhist Studies
  4    Classical Sanskrit Literature
  5    Dharma Shastra and Artha Shastra
  6    Epics and Puranas
  7    Hindu Studies
  8    Jaina Studies
  9    Manuscripts and Historical Resources
  10   Modern Sanskrit Literature
  11   Music and Performing Arts
  12   Philosophies (Darshanas)
  13   Poetics and Aesthetics
  14   Sanskrit and Regional Languages
  15   Sanskrit Scientific Literature
  16   Sanskrit Medical Literature
  17   Sanskrit and the Environment
  18   Sanskrit and Computer
  19   Veda and Vedangas
  20   Vyakarana and Linguistics

--
Dominik Wujastyk





From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Thu Mar 28 01:54:28 1996
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 17:54:28 -0800
Subject: Lords of the eight directions
Message-ID: <161227023557.23782.7122297177770628933.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On 28 Mar 1996,  dmenon at pacific.net.sg (Das Menon) asked: "Does anyone know
the sloka that is used to describe (or help remember) the Lords of the
eight directions like indra, vAyu etc.?"

The Amara-ko;sa (6.4 or verse 149) has: indro vahni.h pit.r-patir nair.rto
varu.no marut / kubera ii;sa.h pataya.h puurvaadiinaa.m di;saa.m krammat //
 

--aklujkar






From NSALMOND at arus.ubishops.ca  Thu Mar 28 00:19:18 1996
From: NSALMOND at arus.ubishops.ca (Noel Salmond)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 19:19:18 -0500
Subject: Max Muller
Message-ID: <161227023554.23782.11459708398258262195.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Would someone please tell me where to find the actual location of 
the phrase from Max Muller: "He who knows one religion knows none." 
This has become a mantram in religious studies but I don't know 
where Muller actually said it.

With thanks

Noel Salmond

P.S. Does anyone know the source of the retort: "He who knows too 
many doesn't know any"? 





From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA  Thu Mar 28 02:07:11 1996
From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (RAH)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 20:07:11 -0600
Subject: Q: nA.tyasya mAtara.h
Message-ID: <161227023559.23782.6940024266354934430.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I'm reading the nA.tya"sAstra these days, and one phrase has been 
particularly troubling. Who are the "mothers of the nA.tya"? In the 
edition by Nagar put out by Parimal publishers the phrase that means that 
appears in 3.30, 3.67, and what I take to be a synonymous phrase, simply 
mAtara.h, appears in 3.87. The AbhinavabhAratI is silent about this, at 
least at those spots.

Gratefully,
Bob Hueckstedt

Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages
Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba
Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada
http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/asian_studies
fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797






From amuellen at ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de  Wed Mar 27 19:26:06 1996
From: amuellen at ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Martin Bemmann)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 20:26:06 +0100
Subject: crossbow
Message-ID: <161227023548.23782.9290402796923687604.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Richard Saran wrote:
>I am interested in the use of the crossbow in South Asia before 1700.
>Can someone recall depictions of this weapon in painting or sculpture?

The crossbow was apparently used in China since the time of the >Warring
States< (5.-3. cent. BC). Triggers were found in the famouse grave of Ch'in
Shih-Huang-Ti (reign 221-210 B.C.). Now for South Asia: I have seen in
Pakistan a similar bronze trigger in the exhibitition halls of the Taxila
site museum, but I don't know whether it is published or not (I have not
Marshall's volumes at my hand now).

Martin Bemmann








From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Mar 28 02:43:17 1996
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 21:43:17 -0500
Subject: A question
Message-ID: <161227023561.23782.7394216128933738442.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anyone know the email address for Professor Albrecht Wezler at 
Hamburg?  Thanks.
	Madhav Deshpande





From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Thu Mar 28 04:11:46 1996
From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 23:11:46 -0500
Subject: A question
Message-ID: <161227023564.23782.4370286045074332274.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>




On Thu, 28 Mar 1996, Madhav Deshpande wrote:

> Does anyone know the email address for Professor Albrecht Wezler at 
> Hamburg?  Thanks.
> 	Madhav Deshpande
> 
It is:

"WEZLER.ALBRECHT" <FO4A010 at rrz-cip-1.rrz.uni-hamburg.de>

> 





From sghosh1 at PO-Box.McGill.CA  Thu Mar 28 08:35:34 1996
From: sghosh1 at PO-Box.McGill.CA (sghosh1 at PO-Box.McGill.CA)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 03:35:34 -0500
Subject: Max Muller
Message-ID: <161227023568.23782.9797434307870800477.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Noel,

The  Mueller  quote  on  comparative religion  comes from   his  'Introduction 
to   the Science of Religion' (1873),  p.16.   Also see   Eric J.Sharpe's  
'Comparative Religion: A History' ( London: Open Court, 1986, 26-46),  in 
which he discusses Mueller and other scholars with a simliar stance on  
religion in the chapter of  the same title, 'He who knows...'.  As for  the  
'he who knows too much...' quote  - well, I haven't  come across it!  

Hope you're doing well!

Regards, 
Sujata





From vasu at religion.ufl.edu  Thu Mar 28 12:25:35 1996
From: vasu at religion.ufl.edu (Vasudha Narayanan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 07:25:35 -0500
Subject: Max Muller
Message-ID: <161227023572.23782.11320339618344542897.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Streng, Lloyd and Allen quote an African proverb, said to be from the Ganda
tribe in central Uganda: "He who never visits thinks his mother is the only
cook." :-) Ways of Being Religious: Readings for a new approach to Religion,
Prentice Hall, 1973, 1.

Vasudha Narayanan
Religion, University of Florida
PS Old Tamil Proverb: "He who visits too often needs Maalox"





At 12:32 AM 3/28/96 GMT, you wrote:
>Would someone please tell me where to find the actual location of 
>the phrase from Max Muller: "He who knows one religion knows none." 
>This has become a mantram in religious studies but I don't know 
>where Muller actually said it.
>
>With thanks
>
>Noel Salmond
>
>P.S. Does anyone know the source of the retort: "He who knows too 
>many doesn't know any"? 
>
>






From conlon at u.washington.edu  Thu Mar 28 15:42:15 1996
From: conlon at u.washington.edu (Frank Conlon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 07:42:15 -0800
Subject: A Fatal Bus Accident near Taj Mahal involving "American Professor"
Message-ID: <161227023581.23782.11029831006067917394.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

With reference to the query below, on the basis of UPI and Reuters reports
accessed at clari.world.asia.india, it appears that a bus crash near
Mathura occurred during the night, the bus going off the road into a ditch
or nullah.  The bus, which was carrying 30 passengers including 27
Americans, was  destined for the city of Agra, presumably commencing in
Delhi.

	A U.S. Embassy spokesman identified the dead as Cherese Laulhere of
Long Beach, Calif., Jennifer Druck of Belmar, Calif., Virginia Amato of
Metairie, La., Sarah Schewe of Amherst, Mass., and John Wilson, who was
identified only as a staff member of the University of Pittsburgh.
	The injured were reported in serious condition at a hospital in Agra.
Although their hometowns were not available, the four were identified as
Heidi Holmes, Kelly Glass, Kevin Kirby and Thomas Broyles, the spokesman
said.
	The university students and faculty members were on the study abroad
program called ``A Semester at Sea,'' and had arrived in India at the
port city of Bombay before coming to New Delhi, the spokesman said.

	 Local news agencies reported that two Indians were also
killed when the bus, carrying about 30 passengers, went into a
ditch on Wednesday night. The embassy spokesman said the Americans were
on a trip organised by the University of Pittsburgh.

Frank Conlon


On Thu, 28 Mar 1996, WILLIAM HARMAN wrote:

>
> I heard on the news this morning that a fatal bus accident occurred in the
> vicinity of Agra and that four American students and an American University
> Professor from the University of Pittsburgh were killed. Does anyone know who
> this professor was?
>
> 				Bill Harman
> 				DePauw University
> 			    "wharman at depauw.edu"
>
>







From WHARMAN at DEPAUW.EDU  Thu Mar 28 14:16:32 1996
From: WHARMAN at DEPAUW.EDU (WILLIAM HARMAN)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 09:16:32 -0500
Subject: A Fatal Bus Accident near Taj Mahal involving "American Professor"
Message-ID: <161227023578.23782.9912666874970716050.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


I heard on the news this morning that a fatal bus accident occurred in the
vicinity of Agra and that four American students and an American University
Professor from the University of Pittsburgh were killed. Does anyone know who
this professor was?

				Bill Harman
				DePauw University
			    "wharman at depauw.edu"





From dmenon at pacific.net.sg  Thu Mar 28 01:22:16 1996
From: dmenon at pacific.net.sg (dmenon at pacific.net.sg)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 09:22:16 +0800
Subject: Slokas.
Message-ID: <161227023555.23782.11580660701653224902.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anyone know the sloka that is used to describe (or help remember) the
Lords of the eight directions like indra, vAyu etc.

Thanks & Regards...Das






From michaels at relwi.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 28 08:43:08 1996
From: michaels at relwi.unibe.ch (Axel Michaels)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 09:43:08 +0100
Subject: Max Muller
Message-ID: <161227023570.23782.4403067446969030432.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

If I remember it correctly, Muellers mantra is a variation of Goethes 
mantra: "Wer eine kennt, kennt keine" - in his case, however, referring to 
languages. Unfortunately, my library facilities are too poor to verify this.
Best wishes, A.M.

Noel Salmond wrote:

>
>Would someone please tell me where to find the actual location of 
>the phrase from Max Muller: "He who knows one religion knows none." 
>This has become a mantram in religious studies but I don't know 
>where Muller actually said it.
>
>With thanks
>
>Noel Salmond
>
>P.S. Does anyone know the source of the retort: "He who knows too 
>many doesn't know any"? 
>
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof.Dr. Axel Michaels
Universit{t Bern
Institut f}r Religionswissenschaft
Lerchenweg 36
CH-3000 Bern 9
Tel.: (0041)(0)31 631 80 62, Fax.: (0041)(0)31 631 35 51
---------------------------------------------------------------------------





From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Thu Mar 28 17:59:39 1996
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 09:59:39 -0800
Subject: Lords of eight directions
Message-ID: <161227023584.23782.1505251285902647946.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The following message was returned to me as one that could not be
delivered. Hence I am posting it again.

On 28 Mar 1996,  dmenon at pacific.net.sg (Das Menon) asked: "Does anyone know
the sloka that is used to describe (or help remember) the Lords of the
eight directions like indra, vAyu etc.?"

The Amara-ko;sa (6.4 or verse 149) has: indro vahni.h pit.r-patir nair.rto
varu.no marut / kubera ii;sa.h pataya.h puurvaadiinaa.m di;saa.m krammat //






From conlon at u.washington.edu  Thu Mar 28 18:58:35 1996
From: conlon at u.washington.edu (Frank Conlon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 10:58:35 -0800
Subject: Alan Entwistle (1949-1996) (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227023586.23782.7486337853602879691.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Friends:

Our colleague and friend Alan Entwistle died this morning after a two
month battle against the effects of a brain tumor.  I attach an obituary
which I posted to H-ASIA a moment ago.

Frank Conlon
------------
From: Frank Conlon <conlon at u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture <H-ASIA at msu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA <H-ASIA at msu.edu>
Subject: H-ASIA: Alan Entwistle (1949-1996)

                             H-ASIA
                         March 28, 1996

Alan Entwistle (1949-1996)
*****************************************************************
From: Frank F. Conlon <conlon at u.washington.edu>

It is with deep sadness that I report the death this morning,
March 28, 1996, of Professor Alan Entwistle of the University of
Washington, a distinguished scholar, esteemed college and
wonderful human being.  Shortly after joining our faculty in
1986, Alan was diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumor.  He
endured severe radiation and chemotherapy treatments and
experienced a remission which enabled him to enjoy nearly a
decade of further research and teaching.  However in the past
autumn, when he had taken up a Senior Fellowship of the American
Institute of Indian Studies during a long postponed sabbatical
leave in India, he experienced unmistakable signs that the
remission had ended.  He was forced to return to Seattle in
January, 1996.

Alan Entwistle was born in Weymouth, England, March 10, 1949.  He
completed undergraduate studies with an honors B.A. in French at
the University of Southhampton in 1971.  Subsequently he entered
the School of Oriental and African Studies of the University of
London, earning an M. A. in South Asia Area Studies in 1975.  In
1982 he completed a Ph.D. in Hindi, writing a dissertation "The
_Rasa mana ke pada_ of Kevalarama, a Medieval Hindi Text of the
Eighth Gaddi of the Vallabha Sampradaya," under the supervision
of Professor J. C. Wright, Dr. R. D. Gupta and Dr. R. S.
McGregor.

of Groningen in The Netherlands where he taught Hindi language
and courses on Indian civilization, iconography, religion and
literature.  He joined the faculty of the Department of Asian
Languages and Literature in 1986, being promoted to the rank of
Associate Professor with tenure in September, 1990.  Here at
Seattle Alan distinguished himself as an effective and dedicated
teacher of Hindi language and literature, as well as teaching
courses on Indian devotional literature , Hinduism, Indian
iconography and a graduate seminar on Religion in Comparative
Perspective.  Thus, in addition to his many contributions within
his department Alan also worked within the University of
Washington's South Asia and Comparative Religion programs in the
Jackson School of International Studies.

Alan Entwistle's scholarly contributions to the study of India
and Indian religions are distinguished by their careful attention
to both philological linguistic issues of translation of texts
and a broad emphasis upon contexts

Alan Entwistle's scholarship was grounded in a thorough
linguistic and literary training which maintained and extended a
standard of excellence which combined close attention to both
philological issues of text and cultural context.  In 1981 he co-
edited (with H. T. Bakker), _Vaisnavism: the history of the Krsna
and Rama cults and their contribution to Indian pilgrimage_
(Groningen: Instituut voor Indische Talen en Culturen) within
which he was author of chapters on the history of Vaishnavism as
well as an appendix "Notes on the Hindu Calendar and Vaisnava
Festivals."  In 1983 he also published _The Rasa mana ke pada of
Kevalarama: a medieval Hindi text of the Eighth Gaddi of the
Vallabha sect_ [republished in revised edition in 1993] and co-
edited (again with H. T. Bakker), _Devi: the worship of the
goddess and its contribution to Indian pilgrimage_ which included
his essay "Varieties of Devi."

In 1987, Alan published an extraordinary work--a multi-
dimensional study of medieval Indian cultural history.  It's
title, _Braj: Centre of Krishna Pilgrimage_ (Groningen: Egbert
Forsten).  In my view, this book did not receive the wide
distribution it deserved.  I think its significance and its form
reflected all that was so uniquely strong in Alan's career.  Jack
Hawley recently wrote of the Braj book:

     "It earns him [Alan] a place in The Great Annals,
     wherever they are kept.  It's not just the scope of the
     work, which is wonderful, but the trustworthiness of
     all of it--those dense footnotes, which serve as the
     best meeting place for scholarship and thought about
     Braj over the course of the last 50 years, perhaps 100.
     It is a remarkable thing to have accomplished--and it
     is made the more remarkable by the way in which he has
     accomplished it: not self-effacingly, surely, but with
     a smile and quietly and without calling particular
     attention to the magnitude of what he was doing."

In 1994 Alan co-edited, with Francoise Mallison, _Studies in
South Asian Devotional Literature: Research Papers 1988-91
(Delhi: Manohar).  At the time of his final illness, he was
working on a work in "Readings in Medieval Rajasthani (Dingal)"
for the SOAS South Asian Texts series and a critical edition and
translation of _Acaldas Khici ri vacanika_ (The Tale of Acaldas
Khici, a 15th century historical ballad from Rajasthan.)

Alan's colleagues and students (and in a sense they were one and
the same) in India, Europe and America will miss his presence for
a very long while.  He moved us to seek to achieve a higher level
of excellence than might "just do."  His life was a lesson in the
art of living with a quiet grace and steadiness of both purpose
and nature, who always put the subject of investigation in the
foreground.

Alan is survived by his sister Janet and a world full of friends.
Memorial service arrangements are pending.


Frank F. Conlon
University of Washington
=================================================================






From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Thu Mar 28 19:19:06 1996
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 11:19:06 -0800
Subject: Velthuis' font
Message-ID: <161227023588.23782.9843558711222196022.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Making an excuse of the recent posting regarding improvements in Velthuis'
devanaagarii font, I would like to suggest that an improvement, originally
suggested by Dr. Gary Tubb, should be made in Velthuis' conventions for
Roman transliteration. 

The palatal sibilant (commonly anglicized as "sh" and at present
transcribed on the Indology list as ""s", that is, with a double quotation
mark preceding "s") should be transcribed as ";s", that is, with a
semicolon preceding "s".

The palatal nasal (the sound coming after "c," "ch," "j" and "jh") can then
be consistently transcribed as ";n". 

For the guttural nasal ":n", tha is, "n" preceded by colon, should serve
well.

These changes would free up the double quotes for their normal use and also
make the transcription of nasals easier and unambiguous. 

I particularly appreciate the fact that  Velthuis scheme leaves the
capitals or upper key letters available for their established use in Roman
printing. 

For the benefit of those who do not know what Velthuis  system at present
is, I reproduce below the latest statement I have:
I. Velthuis's conventions are as follows:
1) LONG VOWELS ARE DOUBLED. (This also happens to be phonetically correct.)
#The vowels of Sanskrit, then, are a, aa, i, ii, u, uu. An exception to the
doubling rule occurs with long vocalic r, which is encoded .R
2) CONSONANTAL DIACRITICS PRECEDE THE CONSONANTS MARKED BY THEM. Thus the
retroflex class of vowels and consonants is written: .  .r .t .th .d .dh .n
.s  Visarga is written: .h   The palatals that take diacritics are: ~n and
"s  [My suggestion, following Tubb: ;n, ;s] The guttural nasal is written:
"n [my suggestion, following Tubb: :n]
3) DA.N.DA IS WRITTEN |

INDOLOGY should continue to use Velthuis  conventions and should not create
confusion through the use of a variety of Devanaagarii fonts (I am not
opposed to the use of Devanaagarii if a standard, almost universally
accepted system for its use in electronic communication emerges).








From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk  Thu Mar 28 12:30:00 1996
From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 12:30:00 +0000
Subject: Lords
Message-ID: <161227023574.23782.6310534263648656690.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi,

I have already thanked the members who have answered to my previous question
in a private mail. I now have another question and I would be very grateful if
anyone could provide an answer.

Consider the following well known verse praising gaNesha:
			Om
gaNanaM tvaa gaNapati gvaM havaamahe |
priyaanaaM tvaa ....

and the nandii stuti:

mahaakaayaM mahaaviiryaM shivavaahanamuttamam.h |
gaNanaaM prathamaM vande nandiishvaraM mahaabalam.h ||

Are both of them lords of the gaNas of shiva?

Many thanks beforehand for your comments.

Bye,

Girish Beeharry





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Thu Mar 28 13:23:34 1996
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 13:23:34 +0000
Subject: Wikner's new Devanagari announcement
Message-ID: <161227023576.23782.7905662445858589604.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


>Path: bcc.ac.uk!psinntp!uknet!psinntp!psinntp!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!uct.ac.za!quince.nac.ac.za!nacdh4.nac.ac.za!wikner
>From: wikner at nacdh4.nac.ac.za (Charles Wikner)
>Newsgroups: comp.fonts
>Subject: ANNOUNCE: another Sanskrit font (metafont) on CTAN
>Date: 20 Mar 96 09:28:05 +0200
>Organization: National Accelerator Centre, South Africa
>Lines: 107
>Message-ID: <1996Mar20.092805 at nacdh4.nac.ac.za>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: nacdh4.nac.ac.za


After several years' experience with Velthuis' devanaagarii font,
an adventure to refine the font was started. This rapidly got out
of hand, and the result is a completely new font and pre-processor 
suitable for Sanskrit.

Some changes or additions compared to Velthuis' font are:

 o  i-hooks that connect to the consonant at the correct position.

 o  Accents (udaatta anudaatta svarita).

 o  Vedic anusvaara and jihvaamuuliiya/upadhmaaniiya.

 o  Crisper characters (to look good at poster size of 150mm/6-inches).

 o  A grayer font more in keeping with the weight of cmr: in fact, there 
    are three weights (feint medium bold) and two slopes (upright slant).

 o  Transliterated output in roman script with diacritics, using the 
    same encoding scheme as for producing devanaagarii.

 o  Technical transliterated output using four `cases', following the
    style of S.M.Katre in his translation of the A.s.taadhyaayii.

 o  Ligature disabling and other run-time options specified in a
    separate file rather than in the text source file.

Features of Velthuis' scheme that are NOT supported are:

 o  Hindi, Marathi and Indic languages other than Sanskrit.

 o  Dollar mode to switch in and out of devanaagarii.

 o  The \dnnum and \cmnum commands.

 o  Upper case encoding (because of transliteration requirements).

The font and supporting files are designed for use with LaTeX2e; it is 
a bitmap font (using Metafont) rather than PostScript (simply because 
I cannot afford the software tools for designing a PostScript font).

Indebtedness to the earlier work of Frans Velthuis and Dominik Wujastyk
is acknowledged: the overall structure and encoding scheme is very 
similar to theirs. 


The requisite files on CTAN in the language/sanskrit subdirectory 
(as of today on ftp.tex.ac.uk/pub/archive/language/sanskrit) are:

readme.txt   Brief announcement and installation notes.
skt.sty      Style file (LaTeX2e) for the skt-series fonts.
ot1skt.fd    Font descriptor file for the skt-series fonts.
skt.opt      Sample of run-time options file.
skt.c        Pre-processor source program in ANSI C.
sktdoc.skt   Source file of documentation and samples.
sktdoc.600ps Documentation and samples print file: PostScript at 600dpi.
sktdefs.mf   Common definitions of pens, macros, etc. for skt-series fonts.
sktchars.mf  Common character source file for skt-series fonts.
sktligs.mf   Ligature codes (in fact access codes for non-printing
                      ASCII code characters) for skt-series fonts.
skt8.mf      Metafont source file for skt font at 8pt upright.
skt9.mf      Metafont source file for skt font at 9pt upright.
skt10.mf     Metafont source file for skt font at 10pt upright.
sktb10.mf    Metafont source file for skt font at 10pt upright bold.
sktf10.mf    Metafont source file for skt font at 10pt upright feint.
skts10.mf    Metafont source file for skt font at 10pt slanted.
sktbs10.mf   Metafont source file for skt font at 10pt bold slant.
sktfs10.mf   Metafont source file for skt font at 10pt feint slant.
skt*.tfm     Eight .tfm files for above.

Charles Wikner
wikner at nacdh4.nac.ac.za
20 March 1996.

P.S.
For those wanting a preview, a PostScript (600dpi) print file (1.2 Mbyte)
of the documentation and samples file is available by anonymous ftp from
ftp.nacdh4.nac.ac.za/wikner/sktdoc.ps600.
Beware: there is a very thin piece of wire to South Africa, and it is 
stretched rather taut, so the best time to ftp would be Sunday morning
local time (GMT+2:00).

There are also encoded versions of the file:
sktdoc.ps600-zip     (192k) - remember to set TYPE to BINARY
sktdoc.ps600-zip-uue (265k)

P.P.S. If you don't already have them, you will need to get the style
files ifthen.sty and relsize.sty for LaTeX2e: these are used by skt.sty.


--------------------- BUG REPORT 20-MAR-1996 --------------------------

The format lists the bug symptom(s) and the fix(es), followed by the 
original source line(s) and new source line(s).

BUG00.01:  Documentation error: skt.opt
FIX00.01:  skt.opt line 27: g~m -> g.m
% 100 % Disable candrabindu-style Vedic anusvaara, use g~m-style.
% 100 % Disable candrabindu-style Vedic anusvaara, use g.m-style.

BUG00.02:  Documentation error: skt.opt
FIX00.02:  skt.opt line 32: #103 -> #104
      % When enabled, you should disable obey-lines (#103) or you may
      % When enabled, you should disable obey-lines (#104) or you may

----------------- END OF BUG REPORT 20-MAR-1996 -----------------------





From mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com  Thu Mar 28 23:54:02 1996
From: mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com (mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 15:54:02 -0800
Subject: M. Sarasvati papers
Message-ID: <161227023593.23782.17936724913492573986.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear Lance,

Thank you very much for the papers. I received
them a couple days back. I found them very interesting.

One question: how does your understanding of Madhusudana
Sarasvati's relative placement of bhakti and the
gopika-bhaava vis-a-vis the orthodox jnaana-yoga
of Sankara square up with the interpretation of
traditional advaitic scholars?  By traditional, I
wish to exclude T.M.P. Mahadevan and others who
wrote in English.  How do the orthodox advaita
acharyas view M.S.'s philosophy?

Mani






From dmenon at pacific.net.sg  Thu Mar 28 08:00:01 1996
From: dmenon at pacific.net.sg (dmenon at pacific.net.sg)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 16:00:01 +0800
Subject: Vote on Kashmir newgroup
Message-ID: <161227023566.23782.720341624080017151.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hello Everyone,

Indiaworld news headlines has reported the following:

> 22,000 Net votes on Kashmir held invalid to pip India (IE)
>
>   The month-long vote over a proposal for the formation of a newsgroup
>    on Kashmir under an Indian rubric was deemed to have got 82 `yes' and
>    50 `no' votes. Invalid votes numbered 21,987. A winning proposal
>    needs to get 100 more `yes' votes than `no' votes.
>

Those of you who has voted and got "invalid", pls vote again. We need to
keep the Kashmir discussion within the Indian context given that Kashmir has
a long tradition of Vedic studies etc.


Regards...Das

Return-Path: <warren at zion.Consultix.COM>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 03:11:44 -0500 (EST)
To: dmenon at pacific.net.sg
Subject: soc.culture.indian.jammu-kashmir Vote Ack
From: warren at Syra.NET (Warren Lavallee)
Errors-To: warren at Syra.NET (Warren Lavallee)
X-Automated-Message: generated by UseVote 2.2x

This is an automatic message sent to you after your vote has been counted.
If this is correct, there is no need for you to reply. If your vote is
registered incorrectly then please vote again so we can fix it.

If this is a duplicate message, it's OK.  The Vote Taker is probably just
recounting the votes to make sure all is well.  No action is required on
your part.  Your vote will only be counted once.

You may change your vote by voting again.  This is a public vote, and
all addresses and votes will be listed in the final voting results.
To erase your vote and eliminate your address and vote from the final
results listing, vote again and use a CANCEL in place of YES or NO.

Voter address: dmenon at pacific.net.sg
Voter name:    Das Menon

     YES vote on soc.culture.indian.jammu-kashmir

IMPORTANT: if anyone gave you a pre-filled ballot which did not leave all
the choices up to you, you can make your own choice of yes/no/abstain on
each item on the ballot.

Thank you for voting.  For a copy of the Call For Votes (CFV), send mail to
<cfv at Syra.NET> indicating which vote you want the CFV for
(I am running several).
                                  -- Warren Lavallee (warren at Syra.NET)
                                     Running UseVote 3.0







From michaels at relwi.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 28 16:24:01 1996
From: michaels at relwi.unibe.ch (Axel Michaels)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 17:24:01 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Max muller
Message-ID: <161227023591.23782.18203899755974890105.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

If I remember it correctly, Muellers mantra is a variation of Goethes
mantra: "Wer eine kennt, kennt keine" - in his case, however, referring to
languages. Unfortunately, my library facilities are too poor to verify this.
Best wishes, A.M.

Noel Salmond wrote:

>
>Would someone please tell me where to find the actual location of
>the phrase from Max Muller: "He who knows one religion knows none."
>This has become a mantram in religious studies but I don't know
>where Muller actually said it.
>
>With thanks
>
>Noel Salmond
>
>P.S. Does anyone know the source of the retort: "He who knows too
>many doesn't know any"?
>
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof.Dr. Axel Michaels
Universit{t Bern
Institut f}r Religionswissenschaft
Lerchenweg 36
CH-3000 Bern 9
Tel.: (0041)(0)31 631 80 62, Fax.: (0041)(0)31 631 35 51
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


--GAA29644.828022786/rho.ben2.ucla.edu--



------ Forwarded message ends here ------

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof.Dr. Axel Michaels
Universit{t Bern
Institut f}r Religionswissenschaft
Lerchenweg 36
CH-3000 Bern 9
Tel.: (0041)(0)31 631 80 62, Fax.: (0041)(0)31 631 35 51
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From wagers at computek.net  Fri Mar 29 01:32:19 1996
From: wagers at computek.net (wagers at computek.net)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 19:32:19 -0600
Subject: Indologist web Page
Message-ID: <161227023596.23782.17851135457420552423.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List Members,

Thx to those of you who notified me of the problem with the Indologist page.
Apparently, our server was the victim of a net hoodlum who deleted our
public directory.

It seems to be back up. Let me know if you have any problems or suggestions.

BTW, the page has a new URL:

        http://denton.computek.net/pub/wagers/ousia/Indologist.Shtml

The only difference is the file extension begins with an "S". (This allows
me to use server side includes.)

Please note the new URL.

Regards,



Will wagers at computek.net
http://denton.computek.net/pub/wagers/ousia/Mayanist.Shtml
http://denton.computek.net/pub/wagers/ousia/Indologist.Shtml







From vyasa at ix.netcom.com  Fri Mar 29 10:57:04 1996
From: vyasa at ix.netcom.com (Martin Epstein)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 05:57:04 -0500
Subject: Rig Veda, A Metrically Restored Text Question on the Software
Message-ID: <161227023603.23782.9623514888473964646.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I recently purchased Rig Veda, A Metrically Restored Text. I am trying to work with the diskette to convert the diacritics. In the instructions there is a mention of a file called CONVERT.SG which accompanies the program SG.EXE. I do not see this file on the diskette. Is it embedded somewhere or was it not included in error. If it was not included would anyone know how I would obtain it? 

Thanks for the help.








From kichenas at math.umn.edu  Fri Mar 29 14:33:02 1996
From: kichenas at math.umn.edu (Satyanad Kichenassamy)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 08:33:02 -0600
Subject: Max Muller
Message-ID: <161227023606.23782.1803805020092728961.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



On Fri, 29 Mar 1996, Dr Kumar wrote:

> Just an addendum to the Tamil proverb-- in Telugu we say,
> 
> "poruinTi pullakUra ruci"  -- "The neighbour's sour herb is tastier"
> 
> Pratap
> 
[...]
> 
> >
> >Vasudha Narayanan
> >Religion, University of Florida
> >PS Old Tamil Proverb: "He who visits too often needs Maalox"
[...]
> >
> >
> >>the phrase from Max Muller: "He who knows one religion knows none."
> 

This Telugu proverb appears to be related to the Tamil proverb
  
       akkarai paccai

which means that the other bank (of the river is, or looks) greener (than
your own). This is meant to ridicule the envious mind. It therefore makes
a point somewhat different from the one initially alluded to. 


                                Satyanad Kichenassamy
                                School of Mathematics
                                University of Minnesota
                                127 Vincent Hall
                                206 Church Street, S. E.
                                Minneapolis, MN 55455-0487
                                E-mail: kichenas at math.umn.edu






From garzilli at shore.net  Fri Mar 29 14:40:45 1996
From: garzilli at shore.net (Enrica Garzilli)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 09:40:45 -0500
Subject: HSC at MIT: Talk on Indian Women in the United States
Message-ID: <161227023608.23782.14833725988915772723.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Thu, 28 Mar 1996, Rahul Advani wrote:

 Please forward this to all interested people and organizations.
************************************************************************** 
          	Hindu Students Council at MIT
 
 			    presents 
 
                 INDIAN WOMEN IN THE UNITED STATES 
 
 A panel discussion will be held on some of the unique issues and problems
 that Indian women face while growing up or living in this country. 
 Issues such as : 

* The question of Indian or American identity 
* Inter-racial dating 
* Parents expectations of sons and daughters 
* Mistrust between women and men 
* Women against women or helping them? 

WHEN: April 3, 1996  (5:15 PM - 8:30 PM)
WHERE: MIT, Cambridge-MA (USA) 
       Building 3-133

SPEAKERS:

Prof. Enrica Garzilli (Harvard) 
Shuba Satyaprasad (Tufts) 
Deepa Iyengar (MIT)

MODERATOR:  Rahul Advani (President of HSC)

Dr. Enrica Garzilli is a Visiting Researcher at the Harvard Law School 
and is the Editor-in-Chief of the electronic JOURNAL OF SOUTH ASIA
WOMEN STUDIES (http://www.shore.net/~india/jsaws/) and the 
electronic INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF TANTRIC STUDIES 
(http://www.shore.net/~india/ijts/). 

S. Satyaprasad is an undergraduate senior in Biology at Tufts University

D. Iyengar is a first year graduate student in Neuroscience at MIT.

                              * * * * * 

This will be followed by a LECTURE by Prof. Maitrayee Chaudhuri, author 
of the book "Indian Women's Movement".

There will be a discussion following the talk moderated by Chaudhuri and
Poonam Pillai, Visiting Scholar at Women's Studies. 

Co-sponsored by : MIT Program in Women's Studies, SAWA.
****************************************************************************
Partecipation is free and open to all. 
We encourage you to bring your questions for the panel discussion. 
For more information please call R. Advani: 617/ 225-7183 or 225-6153.

**********************************End*************************************** 
 






From Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za  Fri Mar 29 09:42:00 1996
From: Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za (Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 09:42:00 +0000
Subject: Max Muller
Message-ID: <161227023601.23782.1693834415237597673.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Just an addendum to the Tamil proverb-- in Telugu we say,

"poruinTi pullakUra ruci"  -- "The neighbour's sour herb is tastier"

Pratap


>Streng, Lloyd and Allen quote an African proverb, said to be from the Ganda
>tribe in central Uganda: "He who never visits thinks his mother is the only
>cook." :-) Ways of Being Religious: Readings for a new approach to Religion,
>Prentice Hall, 1973, 1.
>
>Vasudha Narayanan
>Religion, University of Florida
>PS Old Tamil Proverb: "He who visits too often needs Maalox"
>
>
>
>
>
>At 12:32 AM 3/28/96 GMT, you wrote:
>>Would someone please tell me where to find the actual location of
>>the phrase from Max Muller: "He who knows one religion knows none."
>>This has become a mantram in religious studies but I don't know
>>where Muller actually said it.
>>
>>With thanks
>>
>>Noel Salmond
>>
>>P.S. Does anyone know the source of the retort: "He who knows too
>>many doesn't know any"?
>>
>>

+----------------------------------------------------------------+
Dr. P. Kumar
Department of Hindu Studies & Indian Philosophy
University of Durban-Westville
Private Bag X 54001
Durban
4000
South Africa
Tel: 031-820-2194
Fax: 031-820-2160
Email: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za







From dmenon at pacific.net.sg  Fri Mar 29 02:07:03 1996
From: dmenon at pacific.net.sg (dmenon at pacific.net.sg)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 10:07:03 +0800
Subject: Velthuis' font
Message-ID: <161227023598.23782.11977608861384242014.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi,

May be you could look at the 'ITRANS' method used by the Sanskrit mailing
list? Contact owner-sanskrit-digest at cs.utah.edu or  sanskrit-digest at cs.utah.edu

REgards...Das


At 07:25 PM 3/28/96 GMT, you wrote:
>Making an excuse of the recent posting regarding improvements in Velthuis'
>devanaagarii font, I would like to suggest that an improvement, originally
>suggested by Dr. Gary Tubb, should be made in Velthuis' conventions for
>Roman transliteration. 
 






From kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu  Fri Mar 29 16:24:25 1996
From: kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu (Kamal Adhikary)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 10:24:25 -0600
Subject: Indologist web Page
Message-ID: <161227023610.23782.4205904812022193872.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Hi all of you:

I tried the Indology page  a few times at  the intervals of five  to ten 
minutes just to see if if can be accessed most of the time.  I found that   
the site is easily accessible and the page looks great.  Congratulations.
kamal
_______________
Kamal R. Adhikary, Ph.D.
Internet Coordinator, Asian Studies
UT, Austin, Texas 78712
Tel:512-475-6034
Email:kamal at asnic.utexas.edu

On Fri, 29 Mar 1996, Will Wagers wrote:

> Dear List Members,
> 
> Thx to those of you who notified me of the problem with the Indologist page.
> Apparently, our server was the victim of a net hoodlum who deleted our
> public directory.
> 
> It seems to be back up. Let me know if you have any problems or suggestions.
> 
> BTW, the page has a new URL:
> 
>         http://denton.computek.net/pub/wagers/ousia/Indologist.Shtml
> 
> The only difference is the file extension begins with an "S". (This allows
> me to use server side includes.)
> 
> Please note the new URL.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Will wagers at computek.net
> http://denton.computek.net/pub/wagers/ousia/Mayanist.Shtml
> http://denton.computek.net/pub/wagers/ousia/Indologist.Shtml
> 
> 
> 
> 





From jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu  Fri Mar 29 19:20:32 1996
From: jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (John Gardner)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 13:20:32 -0600
Subject: Rig Veda, A Metrically Restored Text Question on the Software
Message-ID: <161227023612.23782.6578923325788433932.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

THe project is very doable, as I'm sure multiple postings will inform 
you.  Still, isolating all the symbols for conversion to, as I did it, 
ITRANS standards, is time-consuming.  perhaps they could be posted to you 
here, or snail  mailed.  Otherwise, look in the back of your 
word-processor or dos manual and it should list all the codes.  I have 
made a very functional convert.sg file.  convert is the quickest and 
easiest of the programs to use.  If I remember correctly, it is the one 
requiring a space along the left margin in the syntax before each convert 
code.  If not, I have the convert files made out for the other program on 
the disk as well.  To adequately convert it, however, there are some 36 
actual codes used in order to support all the accents when they are added 
to the basic diacritic marking.

Good luck and have fun!

John Robert Gardner
University of Iowa


On Fri, 29 Mar 1996, Martin Epstein wrote:

> I recently purchased Rig Veda, A Metrically Restored Text. I am trying to work with the diskette to convert the diacritics. In the instructions there is a mention of a file called CONVERT.SG which accompanies the program SG.EXE. I do not see this file on the diskette. Is it embedded somewhere or was it not included in error. If it was not included would anyone know how I would obtain it? 
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> 
> 
> 





From zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl  Fri Mar 29 22:23:50 1996
From: zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl (zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 21:23:50 -0100
Subject: Siri Boovalaya..
Message-ID: <161227023616.23782.9862719019966008943.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


 dns> From: dmenon at pacific.net.sg (Das Menon)
 dns> Subject: Siri Boovalaya..

 dns> Does anyone have information on the Kannada work 'Siri
 dns> Boovalaya'. Any
 dns> information is most appreciated.

Unfortunately I will be here in the Netherlands for the next two months, and
not at home in Mysore, where I have a copy of the book (part one; the work has
not yet been published in its entirety, to my knowledge).

I have not read it completely yet, but there is a lot of hazy mystique (and
anecdotes that sound like horror stories) about it. To begin with, it is not
only in Kannada: it is a kind of citrakavya, and if you run through the text in
different directions, you get verses in Telugu and Sanskrit too.

The weirder side of it is that according to some, the text contains formulae
for making gold out of base metals. Of course I'm in no position whatsoever to
make any comment on that.

Robert Zydenbos.-

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                      RBBS Flevoland Internet Gateway                   |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| RBBS Flevoland, Almere-Stad, The Netherlands +31-36-5363720 ZyXEL 19k2 |
| fax +31-36-5363720                           +31-36-5367160 V34+  33k6 |
| Member of Team-OS/2, 7 cdrom's online        +31-36-5360688 ISDNC 64k0 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+





From garzilli at shore.net  Sat Mar 30 21:10:53 1996
From: garzilli at shore.net (Enrica Garzilli)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 96 16:10:53 -0500
Subject: address
Message-ID: <161227023614.23782.17918085414781370938.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anybody have the address and email of Prof. Hanns-Peter Schmidt?
Thanks in advance-- Enrica Garzilli





From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA  Sun Mar 31 20:43:08 1996
From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (RAH)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 96 14:43:08 -0600
Subject: On O.dhramAgadhI
Message-ID: <161227023618.23782.17069470599914639910.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I realize this thread already ended, but just in case anyone wants to 
know more. o.dhramAgadhI is mentioned in nA.tya "sAstra 6.25 as one of 
the 5 [sic] prav.rtti-s, regional styles of dress, speech and behaviour. 
The others are AvantI, dAk.si.nAtyA, pA~ncAlI and madhyamA. In N"S 13.37 
this list occurs again, but without madhyamA. The exact area encompassed 
by o.dhramAgadhI is defined at N"S 13.44-47.

Best,
Bob Hueckstedt

Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages
Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba
Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada
http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/asian_studies
fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797