From offerman at cc.helsinki.fi Tue Jan 2 05:23:42 1996 From: offerman at cc.helsinki.fi (Hertaldis M G Offermann) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 96 07:23:42 +0200 Subject: references? Message-ID: <161227022238.23782.10423004712965925451.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I'm a student of ethnomusicology and indology and I'm doing my research on the North Indian sarangi (a musical instrument) and it's social role in Hindustani music. For the moment I have still very few references about this subject. I would very much appreciate it if someone could provide me some references to the following questions: 1. different courts and the courtlife in North India and social history of North India from 16th to the 20th century 2. Castes of musicians, does vocalists, soloista and accompanists have their own caste? 3. The life of courtesans and their musicians 4. Concept of tradition in Indian music (gharana, guru-shishya parampara etc) 5. Kota-culture, musicians, dancer, prostitutes etc. 6. Why have accompanists low social status in the music community, like tabla and sarangi in Hindustani music? Thank you already now for your help Hertaldis Offermann offerman at cc.helsinki.fi From svadchi at agf.fr Tue Jan 2 08:54:59 1996 From: svadchi at agf.fr (svadchi at agf.fr) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 96 09:54:59 +0100 Subject: Asuras and usurers Message-ID: <161227022240.23782.6236766573470583597.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of Indology, it is the first time I join your company. I am working on early Roman material, compared with material coming from the mythologies of other Indo-european peoples - mainly Indian and Scandinavian mythologies. But not being a sanskritist, I need your help to get some piece of information I do not find in Dumezil and Renou's works. While reading the description of Azvamedha in ZB (13, 4, 3,11), I fell on a very quier association between usurers and Asuras, association I should like to understand, since usurers play an important part in the Roman annals, of which a good part has been elaborated from mythical material. The Paariplava AAkhyaana or revolving legend is recited by the hotR every noon during one year in order to 'raise the king above the beings'. Each of the ten peoples inhabiting the real and mythical worlds participates by turn in the ceremony through representants. In this context, the people of the Asuras is represented by a group of usurers (or money-lenders), felt as the most Asura-like people on earth. The translator of my version, Julius Eggeling, writes that 'the association of the black art with the usurer or money-lender (kusiidin) is rather curious'. I give here the quotation of ZB : "And on the seventh day, after those (three) offerings have been performed in the same way, there is the same course of procedure. 'Adhvaryu !' he (the hotR) says. - 'Havai hotar !' replies the Adhvaryu. -'King Asita Dhaanva,' he says; 'his people are the Asura; and they are staying here;' - usurers have come thither : it is these he instructs; - 'Magic is the Veda : this it is;' thus saying, let him perform some magic trick. The Adhvaryu calls in the same way (on the masters of lute-players) but does not perform the Prakrama oblations." Could you help me answering the following questions ? Is there any other quotation similar to this one ? How could the association between usurers and Asuras be explained ? Could it be because of a similar behaviour toward their victims ? Is there in Vedic times something like Roman nexus (debt-imprisonment) for debtors who cannot pay their debt back ? Have Asuras a propensity to bind their victims as VaruNa does ? Or could richess generate interest through maayaa, one of the powers of asuras, debased here into magic ? Going a little further, is there any link between some class of asuras and riches ? Why is the aasura form of marriage called after the Asuras ? In the aasura form of marriage, the bridegroom receives a maiden after having given as much wealth as he can afford to the kinsmen and to the bride herself (Manu smRti and others). Dumezil associates that form of marriage with the third function, that of vaizyas. I hope you can help me, and I thank you for your assistance. Jean-Claude Svadchii PS : I give you an overview on the ten peoples, summing up for each people its name / its king/ the group representing it in the ceremony / its Veda : 1) Men / Manu Vaivasvata / householders, unlearned in the scriptures / the Rk (verses) 2) the Fathers / Yama Vaivasvata / old men / the Yajus-formulas 3) the Gandharvas / Varuna AAditya / handsome youths /the Atharvans 4) the Apsaras / Soma VaiSNava / handsome maidens / the AGgiras (or the Ghora) 5) the Snakes / Arbuda Kaadraveya / both snakes and snake-charmers (or men knowing about snakes) / the Sarpavidyaa (science of snakes) (or ViSavidyaa : science of venoms) 6) the RakSas / Kubera VaiSravaNa / evil-doers, robbers /the Devajanavidyaa (demonology) 7) the Asuras / Asita Dhaanva / usurers / magic (also Asuravidyaa : conjuring) 8) the Water-dwellers / Matsya Saammada / both fish and fishermen / the Itihaasa 9) the Birds / TaarkSya Vaipazyata / both birds and bird-catchers (also men acquainted with the science of birds) / the (Vaayu) PuraaNa 10) the Gods / Dharma Indra / learned zrotriyas (theologians), accepting no gifts / the Saaman (chant-texts) From soumitra at ix.netcom.com Tue Jan 2 18:48:46 1996 From: soumitra at ix.netcom.com (soumitra at ix.netcom.com) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 96 10:48:46 -0800 Subject: references? Message-ID: <161227022244.23782.4698723056412789041.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> You wrote: > > >I'm a student of ethnomusicology and indology and I'm doing my research >on the North Indian sarangi (a musical instrument) and it's social role >in Hindustani music. > >For the moment I have still very few references about this subject. > >I would very much appreciate it if someone could provide me some references >to the following questions: > >1. different courts and the courtlife in North India and social history >of North India from 16th to the 20th century > >2. Castes of musicians, does vocalists, soloista and accompanists have >their own caste? > >3. The life of courtesans and their musicians > >4. Concept of tradition in Indian music (gharana, guru-shishya parampara etc) > >5. Kota-culture, musicians, dancer, prostitutes etc. > >6. Why have accompanists low social status in the music community, like >tabla and sarangi in Hindustani music? > > >Thank you already now for your help > >Hertaldis Offermann >offerman at cc.helsinki.fi > > > > > I will give you the address of Bob Ghosh of NJ , who has helped open a school of Ashish Khan (the school of Ustad Allauddin Khan).his address could also be found in alt.rec.indian.classical.music. From kxp5195 at hertz.njit.edu Tue Jan 2 08:52:53 1996 From: kxp5195 at hertz.njit.edu (kxp5195 at hertz.njit.edu) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 96 13:52:53 +0500 Subject: request: references for pancaanga/ephemeris calculations Message-ID: <161227022245.23782.8543102236312341414.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am thinking of rewriting Prof Yano's pancaanga program with some modifications. I would appreciate if someone can give me the references for pancaanga calculations, both from the various siddhaantas, and also from modern ephemerides. Thanks in advance and best wishes to all for a Happy new year. Krishna Padmasola From hpatel at ccmail.muller.com Tue Jan 2 21:04:48 1996 From: hpatel at ccmail.muller.com (hpatel at ccmail.muller.com) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 96 16:04:48 -0500 Subject: Turn Off Messages Message-ID: <161227022249.23782.5063950517958573458.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Please turn off messages to Email address : hshah at muller.com. This person is no longer here. Thank You From athr at loc.gov Tue Jan 2 21:36:45 1996 From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 96 16:36:45 -0500 Subject: Mising Bane Kebang: meaning of name of group Message-ID: <161227022247.23782.7537118656262368101.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I badly need to know the literal meaning of the name of the Mising political group Mising Bane Kebang. There seems to be no dictionary of the Abor (a.k.a. Mising, Adi, Miri) language to English or another language, only from other languages to Mising. Is there anyone out there who knows Abor or who has studied the movement and can give me a translation? I am of course paging and consulting all the books on the Mising for this information. Thanks awfully and Happy New Year, Allen W. Thrasher Senior Reference Librarian Southern Asia Section Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4744 tel. 202-707-5600 fax 202-707-1724 Email: athr at loc.gov From d.keown at gold.ac.uk Tue Jan 2 16:49:21 1996 From: d.keown at gold.ac.uk (d.keown at gold.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 96 16:49:21 +0000 Subject: JBE Editorial Positions Message-ID: <161227022242.23782.15450579791323205484.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> As the Journal of Buddhist Ethics begins the publication of Volume 3 (1996), the editors are pleased to report that the journal now has around 725 subscribers in 37 countries. Many many more individuals, who are not subscribers, regularly read the journal. We are now receiving more than 25,000 visits to our World Wide Web sites each year. The journal expanded greatly in 1995, publishing 11 articles spanning more than 200 pages of text, as well as a liberal sprinkling of book reviews and informative bulletins. The staff of the journal now includes four editors and eighteen editorial board members. Additionally, the journal became one of the first Internet resources to publish documents in Adobe Acrobat format, making it possible for subscribers to read the document exactly as it was prepared by the author. The journal also hosted its first online conference in 1995, a highly successful venture focusing on Buddhism and Human Rights that received more than 400 reader comments during the two week duration of the conference. Because of the gratifying response of our subscribers, the overwhelming attention of scholars in the discipline of Buddhist Studies, and the strong support of other individuals keenly interested in Buddhist ethics, the editors are eagerly anticipating expanding the journal much more aggressively in 1996. The most immediate change is that the journal will include an exciting and completely up to date series of book reviews covering the whole discipline of Buddhist Studies. Precisely because our electronic format allows us to reduce the time-lag between book publication and book review, we are hoping to offer our readers the most timely resource for book reviews ever presented in Buddhist Studies. Additionally, we have adopted a policy of sponsoring one online conference per year. The topic for 1996 will be "Ethics in Western Buddhism." By mid-year, we will be issuing a "Call for Papers" for this event. We will continue utilizing the remarkable formatting capabilities of Adobe Acrobat in publishing journal pages that duplicate the appearance of hard-copy journals. And we expect to provide an offprint service to our readers at extremely low cost. In order to continue the operation of the journal at its high standard of excellence, and to effect the changes described above, the journal is hoping to expand its staff. As such, we are announcing the job vacancies listed below. All editorial positions on the Journal of Buddhist Ethics are unsalaried, providing an appropriate credit citation on one's vitae and the immense satisfaction of having served the profession in selfless but meaningful fashion. JOURNAL OF BUDDHIST ETHICS - JOB VACANCIES ASSISTANT BOOK REVIEW EDITORS Assistant Book Review Editors should be computer literate volunteers who are interested in performing the following functions for the journal: 1. To identify books in their area (South Asia, Southeast Asia, East Asia, Central Asia/Tibet, the West) that merit reviewing. These could be recently published works or other important works that did not receive proper attention when first published. 2. To identify people who are interested in writing reviews for the journal and establish a database with the names of these interested, potential reviewers and their areas of expertise. 3. To facilitate getting books into the hands of the reviewers by securing reviewers for particular volumes and arranging for publishers to send review copies to these individuals. 4. To encourage the reviewer to get the review submitted in a timely manner (i.e., within one month from the time the book is received). Individuals interested in serving as Assistant Book Review Editors should contact Karen Lang (kcl at virginia.edu), the journal's Book Review Editor directly. COPY EDITOR The Copy Editor will serve as a liaison between the authors of accepted manuscripts and the General Editors. The Copy Editor will work with authors in preparing their manuscripts according to the format documented in the journal's Style Guide. The Copy Editor will be a computer literate individual, possessing editorial skill, with a background in Buddhist Studies and familiar with a variety of word-processing formats. The Copy Editor will work with the authors in preparing offprints for sale to journal readers. The Copy Editor reports to the journal's General Editors. Those interested in this position should contact Damien Keown (d.keown at gold.ac.uk) or Charles Prebish (csp1 at psuvm.psu.edu). DIRECTOR OF ONLINE CONFERENCES The Director of Online Conferences will work with the General Editors in determining the topic for each year's conference. He/She will post the "Call for Papers" in all appropriate resources, monitor the submissions, and will consult with the General Editors regarding acceptance or rejection of submissions. The Director of Online Conferences will work with the Copy Editor to format all accepted papers for posting in the conference "page" on the journal's World Wide Web site. He/She will work with the Listserv Manager to monitor all responses for posting during the duration of the online conference. He/She will work with authors of accepted papers to prepare these papers for any hard-copy publication that may follow the online conference. The Director of Online Conferences reports to the journal's General Editors. Those interested in this position should contact either Damien Keown (d.keown at gold.ac.uk) or Charles Prebish (csp1 at psuvm.psu.edu). WORLD WIDE WEB SITE DEVELOPER The WWW Site Developer will be responsible for ensuring that the journal's Web sites incorporate the latest features of WWW technology. The developer will be fully conversant with HTML, forms, CGI scripting, and image maps, and interested in experimenting with new ways to keep the journal at the leading edge of technical developments. Projects will include the development of a search engine for the journal's current publications, a form for online Listserv subscription, a Hypermail archive for online conferences, and a statistics page showing site accesses and downloads of individual articles. Some experience with Adobe Acrobat would be an advantage. Those interested in this position should contact the journal's Technical Editor Wayne Husted (wrh7 at psu.edu). LISTSERV MANAGER The Listserv Manager will have day-to-day responsibility for management of the journal's list JBE-L. At present the list is used mainly for publication announcements, but it is hoped to extend the use of this facility to include limited standing conferences on selected issues using the TOPICS function. Subscribers will then be offered a menu of "channels" to which they can subscribe depending on their individual interests. The list is also used for the journal's annual online conference which last year generated over 400 postings during the two weeks of the conference. For future conferences, a "panels" structure will be adopted, which will be the responsibility of the Listserv Manager to design and implement in conjunction with the Director of Online Conferences. Those interested in this position should contact the journal's Technical Editor Wayne Husted (wrh7 at psu.edu). ADVERTISING/MARKETING MANAGER Although the journal is free, it has running costs and expenses. The journal wishes to appoint an Advertising/Marketing Manager to generate revenue to meet these costs and to fund improvement of facilities and the overall quality of service to subscribers. The duties of this individual will be to generate revenue through sponsorship and advertising mainly via the journal's WWW sites. He/she will be a creative, self-motivated person with initiative and ideally some commercial experience in advertising or marketing, although the latter is not essential. Those interested in this position should contact either Damien Keown (d.keown at gold.ac.uk) or Charles Prebish (csp1 at psuvm.psu.edu). FINANCIAL DIRECTOR The Financial Director will be responsible for the financial aspect of the journal's activities. This includes recommending an appropriate legal and financial framework for the journal's activities, managing its bank account, preparing accounts, and tracking and monitoring revenue and expenses. It is anticipated that the Financial Director will be someone with commercial or other relevant financial experience. Those interested in this position should contact either Damien Keown (d.keown at gold.ac.uk) or Charles Prebish (csp1 at psuvm.psu.edu). From vidya at cco.caltech.edu Wed Jan 3 00:52:28 1996 From: vidya at cco.caltech.edu (vidya) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 96 16:52:28 -0800 Subject: references? Message-ID: <161227022251.23782.9100373619424617773.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > 6. Why have accompanists low social status in the music community, like > tabla and sarangi in Hindustani music? This used to be the case, I suppose, in the past. It's not true any longer. The simple reason for low status is the fact that sons of dancers and courtesans would take to musical accompaniment as a profession, and the social hierarchy placed such people on a low status. In other words, the low social status of accompanists in the past, is an effect of parentage. Though this is closely correlated with their profession, the mere fact of being a sArangiya or a tabaliya is not causative of low social status. The current situation is very different. Tabla players like Zakir Hussain and Swapan Chowdhary are almost glamorous cult figures in India now. In fact their status is rather high nowadays, within Indian society. The sarangi on the other hand is not a very popular instrument, and very few people take to it. It has also slowly yielded place to the harmonium as an accompaniment of choice for vocal music. If the sarangi is used in Hindustani music nowadays, it is increasingly as a solo instrument, and less as an accompaniment. S. Vidyasankar From offerman at cc.helsinki.fi Wed Jan 3 05:44:35 1996 From: offerman at cc.helsinki.fi (Hertaldis M G Offermann) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 07:44:35 +0200 Subject: references? Message-ID: <161227022253.23782.10988075809794819584.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, vidya wrote: > > 6. Why have accompanists low social status in the music community, like > > tabla and sarangi in Hindustani music? > > This used to be the case, I suppose, in the past. It's not true any longer. > The simple reason for low status is the fact that sons of dancers and > courtesans would take to musical accompaniment as a profession, and the > social hierarchy placed such people on a low status. In other words, the > low social status of accompanists in the past, is an effect of parentage. > Though this is closely correlated with their profession, the mere fact of > being a sArangiya or a tabaliya is not causative of low social status. > > The current situation is very different. Tabla players like Zakir Hussain > and Swapan Chowdhary are almost glamorous cult figures in India now. In > fact their status is rather high nowadays, within Indian society. The > sarangi on the other hand is not a very popular instrument, and very few > people take to it. It has also slowly yielded place to the harmonium as > an accompaniment of choice for vocal music. If the sarangi is used in > Hindustani music nowadays, it is increasingly as a solo instrument, and less > as an accompaniment. > > S. Vidyasankar > You might be right that in the present the status of accompanists is not important anymore. But first, I'm looking for facts form the social history of the music community in Hindustani music. I had during my last travel in India a discussion with a sarangiya in Varanasi about his music tradition and the gharana aspect. Earlier I read that gharanas can only established by vocalists and solists in the Hindustani music context. But this sarangiya argued that he is a member of the Banaras gharana and that there are 8 gharanas in Uttar Pradesh established by sarangi-players. Later I had another discussion with a vocalist from Bombay who denied this fact told me by the sarangiya. I tried to go further and to find answers to this two opposite facts. I think I should get some answers by doing research about the social situation when the court music developed, khayal came to the courts, courtesan tradition influenced the musical life in Northern India etc. The answer to the question about caste, do musicians have their own caste, and differ the caste of vocalists from the caste of accompanists? might give some new lights. I do know, that tablayas established their own gharana (Kippen's book: The tabla of Lucknow), but I don't understand why the sarangiyas did't got the chance. And if sarangiyas established their gharanas, why vocalists deny them. This one discussion with the vocalist and professor from Bombay is not the only reference I got about the attitude of vocalists to sarangiyas. In literature you can find the same attitude. Regards Hertaldis From unknown at example.com Wed Jan 3 21:00:57 1996 From: unknown at example.com (unknown at example.com) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 15:00:57 -0600 Subject: Book on Arumuka Navalar Message-ID: <161227022255.23782.7986774313630727286.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Book On Arumuka Navalar ************************* There is a recent book on Arumuka Navalar, a pioneer of Tamil renaissance from Ceylon. R. F. Young and S. Jebanesan, The Bible Trembled: The Hindu-Christian controversies of nineteenth century Ceylon. Publications of the De Nobili Research Library. vol. xxii, ed. G. Oberhammer, Universiat Wien, Vienna, 1995 Does any US library has this book? Also, do any of you have the e-mail/postal address of R. Young or S. Jebanesan? Thanks, N. Ganesan nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov From india at shore.net Wed Jan 3 22:24:00 1996 From: india at shore.net (EJVS - IJTS) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 17:24:00 -0500 Subject: Diacritics, s'il vous plait! Message-ID: <161227022260.23782.18058916651112773358.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> We are pleased to announce that the first issue of the *International Journal of Tantric Studies* is now available in Adobe Acrobat (pdf) format. This allows you to READ AND PRINT the Journal with all the *usual* diacritics: no more cumbersome transcriptions and substitutions! You can NOW read the FULL first issue of the IJTS in Adobe Acrobat: our Journal is a *complete* publication, and news, events, reviews are an integral part of it! For the convenience of our readers, the issue is divided in two files that you can download, view, and print separately. The first IJTS issue in pdf format is available on our FTP server at the following URLs: ftp://ftp.shore.net/members/india/ijts/issues/ijts1_1a.pdf ftp://ftp.shore.net/members/india/ijts/issues/ijts1_1b.pdf In order to display and print our issues in pdf format, you have to download the free Acrobat Reader available for Dos, Windows, Mac and Unix systems from The Adobe WWW server at the following address: http://www.adobe.com/Software.html#acrordr * * * * * The IJTS, the JSAWS, and the EJVS are the first electronic academic Journals in Asian Studies to have: *full page layout*, *diacritics*, *graphics* of a hard copy journal! Our ca. 2000 certified readers per month have all the facilities and the graphics of a typographically printed Journal without its inconveniences (price, availability, etc.). In our Journals you can also use a *dynamic search by keywords*. You can also have a real correspondence with the other members, since we have been the first to have a *real mailing list* -- therefore, a real membership -- together with the WEB pages. You can send messages to Editors as well to the other Members: we work as a moderated mailing list. This week the IJTS Vol. 1 No. 1, in a few days the EJVS Vol. 1, No. 1, and the JSAWS Vol. 1, No. 1 will be available in the new Adobe Acrobat format; the remaining issues will follow shortly. If you do not want to download the Acrobat Viewer, you can download and print our issues from our ftp server in *Postscript format* with diacritics, graphics, etc. * We remind readers that we are the first Journals/mailing list in the field to have a real ftp site.* Enjoy the reading! Enrica Garzilli, Editor International Journal of Tantric Studies (http://www.shore.net/~india/ijts/) Journal of South Asia Women Studies (http://www.shore.net/~india/jsaws/) Michael Witzel, Editor Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies (http://www.shore.net/~india/ejvs/) Ludovico Magnocavallo, Technical Editor (ludo at shore.net) From apandey at u.washington.edu Thu Jan 4 04:16:03 1996 From: apandey at u.washington.edu (Anshuman Pandey) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 20:16:03 -0800 Subject: Alla Upanisad? Message-ID: <161227022263.23782.15846889732078178574.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> As I read through David Frawley's "God, Sages, and Kings," I came upon a reference to the Alla Upanisad. Frawley mentioned that it was probably composed after Islam had formally entered India, and I assume that it is a rather minor Upanisad, but I cannot find any books which offer more detailed information about it, nor can I find it listed in any collections of Upanisadic texts or in any library catalogues (at least those which I can access through this University's system). Does anyone know if such an Upanisad exists, and possibly where it may be found? Thank you. Anshuman Pandey From JHOUBEN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl Wed Jan 3 21:20:43 1996 From: JHOUBEN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl (JHOUBEN at rullet.LeidenUniv.nl) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 22:20:43 +0100 Subject: Comments on Witzel's "final answer" Message-ID: <161227022257.23782.1027560793297706940.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Comments on Witzel's "final answer" Comments on Prof. M. Witzel's 29 November "final answer" to the messages on translation, after his criticism of W D.O.'s translation of Sanskrit texts. A. The criticisms and the discussion show that Sanskrit studies are in a deplorable state. For decades since the end of the last and the beginning of the present century, no new grammar of Vedic Sanskrit has been written which integrates the results of fundamental research in the field of Syntax, such as K. Hoffmann's Der Injunktiv. A comprehensive handbook on the uses and functions of the crucial particles (tu, ca, api, etc.) in different fields of Sanskrit literature (Vedic, Saastric, Epic) has so far not been written. B. As for the specific translation problems of 'scientific' Sanskrit, I suggest that if certain basic transformations are allowed, such as genitive + abstract noun ----> subject + predicate, it is possible to remain close to the original and yet produce a 'digestible' translation. This is what I tried to do in my translation of Helaaraaja's Prakiir.na-prakaaza, the oldest available commentary on the Sambandha-samuddeza of Bhart.rhari's Vaakyapadiiya (in: Bhart.rhari's philosophy of Language: to appear shortly in Groningen: Egbert Forsten Publishing, vol. 2 of Gonda Indological Series). For determining which transformations should be defensible use was made mainly of Hermann Jacobi's "Ueber den nominalen Stil des wissenschaftlichen Sanskrits" (Jacobi, 1903) and Peter Hartmann, Nominale Ausdrucksformen im wissenschaftlichen Sanskrit (Hartmann, 1955). In the case of a *good* author like Helaaraaja, whose style remains generally lucid even when 'scientific', these basic transformations suffice to yield an often quite understandable philosophical argument in translation. Nevertheless, the discussions are so specialistic and presuppose so much detailed knowledge of Saastric texts that each step in the discussion requires a considerable amount of explanation. Unlike Stephen Phillips (as I understood him from his contributions to the discussion, e.g. 29 November) I think that the requirements of being faithful to the Sanskrit original and of being understandable to a larger public are so divergent that it is better to separate the direct and systematic translation of the original, from sections which seek to reach a wider audience: paraphrases, explanations and discussions of the original Sanskrit text. (In the case of the above-mentioned book on Bhart.hari's philosophy of language, I placed the translation of Helaaraaja's commentary in an Appendix, while summaries and paraphrases of it were placed in the main body of the work devoted to the interpretation of the 88 verses of the Sambandha-samuddeza.) C. The purport of points A and B is that there definitely is scope for progress in Sanskrit Studies in the way scholars and scientists generally like to see 'progress': as an approximation "with *increasing precision*" of "the correct representation" (quotes from Witzel's final comments) of an original Sanskrit text. This scope is especially found in more precise descriptions of grammatical structures and functions in Sanskrit against the background of those in a modern language like English. In the field of the lexicon, however, there is a very disturbing factor for those aiming at an increasing precision over time: the variability of the lexicon of the purpose language. (The grammatical structure of English is much more stable over time and less open to cultural variation, although stylistic fashions may gradually transfrom the grammar as well. The variability on the lexical level is also found on the macro-level of the interpretation of a text as a meaningful whole, but this aspect was not part of the preceding discussion.) This problem applies to cultural terms (I now know of no better example than the word 'gay' in modern English and in Monier-Williams English-Sanskrit dictionary) but probably even more so to terms which overlap with modern technical, philosophical or scientific notions (cf. var.na rendered as 'letter' in Monier-Williams Sanskrit- English dictionary, and Wezler's discussion in his article "Credo quia occidentale: a note on Sanskrit var.na and its misinterpretation in literature on Miimaamsaa and Vyaakara.na" in Studies in Miimaamsaa, Dr. Mandan Mishra Felicitation Volume). The problem is a very basic one and in its own dimension similar to the one indicated by Wilhelm Halbfass when he said that it is difficult to find a reliable platform of 'latest research' in modern Western ontology, on the basis of which the contributions to ontological thought in the Sanskrit tradition can be interpreted and evaluated (cf. Halbfass, On Being and What there is, 1992:11). In this field, encompassing the problem area of Witzel's 'intranslatable' terms dharma, .rta, etc., there seems to be no scope for a more or less linear progress. Rather, it is to be admitted that 'Orientalism' has a point here, that our understanding of the *other* is not separable from the influence and limitations of *our own* concepts, constructs and decisions, and that an entirely objective interpretation of ancient texts is by definition impossible. Wouldn't it be as objectionable to posit the culture in which a text originated as entirely different from the present (something in which romanticists excelled) as it is to posit it as basically the same as the present (the 'Orientalists' as criticized by Witzel)? Nevertheless, I think that from a methodological point of view the latter option is to preferred in the following sense: presuppose similarity with what is known unless there are reasons to believe otherwise. This means, among other things, that we should not posit a separate 'Indian rationality' but that what is rational in Europe is and was also rational in India (cf. the recurrent argument in this direction by Staal in his Universals, 1988). The methodological problem whether in historical reconstructions a fundamental sameness or difference is to be presupposed has been discussed also in other branches of learning, cf. the so called Uniformitarian Principle which posits as a working hypothesis that "knowledge of processes that operated in the past can be inferred by observing ongoing processes in the present" (Christie 1983:ix, cited in Labov 1994, Principles of Linguistic Change:21). This also means that *in principle* issues of scientific and philosophical discussions in the Sanskrit tradition may be very relevant to modern discussions in similar fields. Bhart.rhari's discussions concerning the relation between language, thought and reality do resonate strongly with modern discussions on these perennial issues (issues, moreover, which recur, as if independently, in remarkably similar forms in other intellectual contexts as in the Arabic, Hebrew and Greek tradition, cf. The Emergence of Semantics in Four Linguistic Traditions, by Versteegh, Sluiter, van Bekkum and Houben, to appear in Amsterdam, Philadelphia: John Benjamins). It is precisely in these cases that the temptation is greatest to read too much of one's own ideas into the Sanskrit text, and it is here that there is a great need, not for mere explanatory paraphrases nor for merely a precise but incomprehensible translation in accordance with the basics of Sanskrit grammar, but for a balanced combination of both. The scope of progress in this area is quite different and cannot be entirely 'rectilinear'. The study of crucial terms and concepts requires that the great number of works of major philosophical, scientific, poetical, religious, and cultural interest of which the Sanskrit tradition can boast are made accessible in a faithful way and at the same time rethought in a sensitive and comprehensive way. It is to be accepted beforehand that the results of such efforts will at one time be outdated in certain perhaps even vital respects, precisely because they result from a strongly dialectical relationship with the here and now. There is, moreover, a definite risk that one's 'sense of progress' in this area of philosophical and cultural interpretation soon turns out to be deceptive (cf. Frauwallner's "Der arische Anteil an der indischen Philosophie" ZDMG 1938, WZKM 1939, in which the author follows a line of thought which he fortunately discontinued in his admirable later oeuvre). But that does not make it less important and less exciting to work in this area of confrontation where the waves from the ocean of the past do not remain on a safe distance but beat and shake the shores of the present under the overarching stormy sky of human existence. Jan E.M. Houben, Research Fellow IIAS, Leiden From lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu Thu Jan 4 06:22:14 1996 From: lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu (Lance Nelson) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 22:22:14 -0800 Subject: Screen Fonts? Message-ID: <161227022265.23782.5740964146994834211.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Question: Why do the screen fonts designed for Sanskrit transliteration look so unfinished in Windows programs? I've downloaded two fonts: Dominic's CS Bitstream Charter and Jamie Hubbard's Sanskrit Times New Roman GE. I've also tried Linguist's Software's TransIndic LS. All true type for Windows, in Word Perfect 6.1, also tried in WinWord 6.0. All of them print nicely, but look very uneven on screen, with some letters fatter than others, etc. Am I doing something wrong? Any advice appreciated. Thanks and Happy New Year to all! Lance --------------------------- Lance Nelson Religious Studies University of San Diego lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu --------------------------- From athr at loc.gov Thu Jan 4 18:44:23 1996 From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 96 13:44:23 -0500 Subject: Sources on Sarasvati Message-ID: <161227022270.23782.14824984443582317635.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Fri, 15 Dec 1995 andersonl at Meena.CC.URegina.CA wrote: > I am looking for sanskrit materials on Sarasvati. Can anyone help. > Thanks. andersle at max.cc.uregina.ca > > From girish at sisna.com Thu Jan 4 21:43:18 1996 From: girish at sisna.com (girish at sisna.com) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 96 14:43:18 -0700 Subject: Chandra names Message-ID: <161227022277.23782.17311939511521197840.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There are three names of the moon that I am trying to understand. I was hoping someone here could help. 1. catura'sraasanaaruu.da.h catur a'sra aasana aaruu.da "The One mounted on a four-cornered seat." Does someone know the significance of the "four-cornered seat?" 2. vivasvanma.n.dalaaj~neyavaasa.h vivasvat ma.n.dala aj~neya vaasa "The One who has an unknowable abode in the globe of the sun?" or perhaps "vivasvat ma.n.dala" mean "shining globe?" 3. audu.mbaranagaavaasa.h audu.mbara, audu.mbara tree or wood, or copper na ga vaasa, tree dweller, peacock "The peacock {of the audu.mbara tree, of audu.mbara wood, of copper}?" Thanks for any help you can provide in understanding these names. ----------------------------------------------------------- Girish Sharma San Diego, CA girish at sisna.com From jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Thu Jan 4 21:08:01 1996 From: jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (John Gardner) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 96 15:08:01 -0600 Subject: sources of research on purusha Message-ID: <161227022274.23782.274275562784192365.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> has anyone ever found/possessed/copied a 1956 kyoto university dissertation by T. Sahota entitled "The Development of the Concept of Purusha". Dandekar lists it, but U. Microfilms doesn't have it, and the only copy to which kyoto could direct me was at the National Diet whose recent missive to me indicates it was handwritten and in too poor a shape to copy. as this dissertation is, to my knowledge, the only detailed study on the earliest uses of a rather crucial philosophical term, it would benefit many aspects of indology if someone has even a piece of it--in english or otherwise. thank you jrg From athr at loc.gov Thu Jan 4 20:17:04 1996 From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 96 15:17:04 -0500 Subject: Sanskrit lessons Message-ID: <161227022272.23782.11052177162230588666.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A lady has called up the Library of Congress asking if Sanskrit lessons were offered in the Washington, DC area. She has already checked all the local colleges and universities. I referred her to the Simhalese Buddhist monastery, which offered lessons some time ago, to the commercial foreign language schools, and to the Foreign Service Institute, whose teachers might have some ideas. Is anyone aware of anyone giving Sanskrit lessons around Washington, or qualified and interested in offering them on an individual basis? Sincerely, Allen W. Thrasher Senior Reference Librarian Southern Asia Section Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4744 tel. 202-707-5600 fax 202-707-1724 Email: athr at loc.gov >?From Peter at pwyz.RHEIN.DE 04 1996 Jan +0100 21:06:00 Date: 04 Jan 1996 21:06:00 +0100 From: Peter at pwyz.RHEIN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Subject: Re: Alla Upanisad? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: indology-l at pwyz.RHEIN.DE Dear Anshuman, You wrote > [...] reference to the Alla Upanisad. Frawley mentioned that it was probably > composed after Islam had formally entered India, and I assume that it is > a rather minor Upanisad, but I cannot find any books which offer more > detailed information about it, nor can I find it listed in any > collections of Upanisadic texts or in any library catalogues (at least > those which I can access through this University's system). Does anyone > know if such an Upanisad exists, and possibly where it may be found? At first have a look into the _New Catalogus Catalogorum_.Vol. 1, s.v. Allopanisad. Rajendralal Mitra published as early as 1871 an article in the _Journal of the Asiatic Society of Bengal (Letters)_. 40 (1871, pp. 170-176: "The Alla-Upanishad: a spurious chapter of the Atharvaveda- text," and a shorter follow-up in the _Proceedings of the Asiatic Society of Bengal_. 1871, pp. 140-142. Rajendralal Babu gives the Sanskrit text accompanied by an English translation. He pointed to an older edition to be found in Radhakanta Deva's _Sabdakalpadruma_ I could not verify in the Nagari reprint and I do not have the old edition in Bengali characters at hand which was used by him. A newer edition was brought out in the Adyar Library Series, Volume 14: _Unpublished Upanishads_. Ed. by C. Kunhan Raja et al. Adyar 1933, pp. 392-393. An interesting comment is given by F.Otto Schrader in _A Descriptive Catalogue of the Sanskrit Mss. in the Adyar Library_. Vol. 1. Madras 1908 (Adyar Library Ser. No. 2), pp. 136 seq. This Upanisad is not "probably", but *certainly* "composed after Islam had formally entered India." It invokes the gods "mitravarunau" and contains at the same time formulae like "allahu akbar" and the shahada in a roughly Sanskritized version. Rajendral saw in the "akbar" quoted in the text a hint to emperor Akbar -- this might be the case or not. Moreover, the Alla Upanisad is not part of the famous list of 108 Upanisads to be found in the (fairly late) Muktika Upanisad. BTW the abovementioned Schrader asked brahmins what they think of the text. They identified the Alla(h) alluded to with the goddess Ila/Ida. I hope this helps you \bye Peter Wyzlic From mail07464 at pop.net Fri Jan 5 02:22:10 1996 From: mail07464 at pop.net (mail07464 at pop.net) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 96 18:22:10 -0800 Subject: Sources on Sarasvati Message-ID: <161227022283.23782.15635452229441638568.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Rg Veda and the Mahabharata are sources to consider. From garzilli at shore.net Thu Jan 4 23:29:15 1996 From: garzilli at shore.net (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 96 18:29:15 -0500 Subject: Addresses Message-ID: <161227022278.23782.16426159073376427324.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anybody have the current addresses of Prof. D. Maggi, Prof. C. Conio and Prof. O. Botto? They teach in Italy. Thanks in advance, Enrica Garzilli From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU Fri Jan 5 02:47:20 1996 From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 96 21:47:20 -0500 Subject: Addresses Message-ID: <161227022285.23782.5675892127510463868.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Che piacere ritrovarla on-line! Grazie delle informazioni. Del Ferrini ero certa... Distinti saluti a lei, a risentirci a presto! EG ************************ On Fri, 5 Jan 1996 sani at ling.unipi.it wrote: > >Does anybody have the current addresses of Prof. D. Maggi, Prof. C. Conio > >and Prof. O. Botto? They teach in Italy. > > > >Thanks in advance, > > > >Enrica Garzilli > > > > > > > > > > Gli indirizzi che conosco sono: > D.Maggi Via Landi 8/A 56100 PISA > O.Botto Via Principessa Clotilde 97 10144 TORINO > Quello della Conio non lo conosco. > Il sig Ferrini segue con entusiasmo > Distinti saluti > Saverio Sani > Dipartimento di Linguistica > Universit? di PISA > > Saverio Sani > > > > >?From 100734.2313 at compuserve.com 05 96 Jan EST 04:01:10 Date: 05 Jan 96 04:01:10 EST From: " \\9$9J7F8@*?f:&8" <100734.2313 at compuserve.com> Subject: Upanishad-quotes Can anyone tell me the place in the Upanishads, where these two quotes come from? 1. sarve bhadrANi pazyantu 2. Out of silence the word sprang into being. Thank you for your help! Hans-Georg Turstig From sani at ling.unipi.it Fri Jan 5 00:39:30 1996 From: sani at ling.unipi.it (sani at ling.unipi.it) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 96 01:39:30 +0100 Subject: Addresses Message-ID: <161227022280.23782.18120518703040137821.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Does anybody have the current addresses of Prof. D. Maggi, Prof. C. Conio >and Prof. O. Botto? They teach in Italy. > >Thanks in advance, > >Enrica Garzilli > > > > > Gli indirizzi che conosco sono: D.Maggi Via Landi 8/A 56100 PISA O.Botto Via Principessa Clotilde 97 10144 TORINO Quello della Conio non lo conosco. Il sig Ferrini segue con entusiasmo Distinti saluti Saverio Sani Dipartimento di Linguistica Universit? di PISA Saverio Sani From kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp Thu Jan 4 16:56:38 1996 From: kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 96 01:56:38 +0900 Subject: "Blaue Blumen", lexicographers and textual battlefields (re: translation) Message-ID: <161227022268.23782.3047748000245385357.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> As a reply to both M. Witzel's and J. Houben's postings on translation, a collection of relevant quotations with a few remarks, again, predominantly on the translation of shaastra-texts (which is the only thing I am not completely, but only partly ignorant of): "...Der Gelehrte hat einen totalen Sieg errungen. Auf dem philologischen Schlachtfeld liegen die Textkoerper, zerschlagen und entseelt, schoen in einer Reihe geordnet, neben einem Schutthaufen von inneren Widerspruechen, Missverstaendnissen, Verderbnissen. Ueber dem Totenfeld aber leuchtet in der Ferne in positivistischer Abstraktheit die romantische blaue Blume des Ursprungs" (Paul Hacker, Zur Methode der geschichtlichen Erforschung der anonymen Sanskritliteratur des Hinduismus, ZDMG 111/2, 1961, 483-492). The initial requirement for translation to meet the "original intent" of the texts rests on several presuppositions, or at least, asks for further specifications (I am sure, more could be enumerated): (1) Naturally, as with every assumption of an "original" idea, we presuppose that the form in which the idea reaches us corresponds either precisely or at least roughly to the form in which it was originally expressed. Hence, if we talk about "original intent", we should better say something to the effect of "the original intent of that text which, after careful philological investigation, comes closest to a supposed original text". If we talk about "original intent" as in "intention on part of the author", we are likely to end up in various hermeneutical dead-end-roads (esp. in the case of anonymous literature), so I would rule that interpretation out from the beginning. (2) A text may have several parts with varying specific intents. Philosophical texts may have varying intents - not to re-use and over-use my most favourite expression, "functions" -, e.g. refuting an opponent's view from one's own viewpoint, refuting his views from within his own system, advocating an independent doctrine, trying to accord one's own ideas with that of authorities of one's own school etc. These intents are sometimes "marked" (...iti cet for opponent's views etc.), sometimes not, and in some cases - Jn~aana'srii is a good example for this -, a passage can be read in one way as well as in another, and if one compared the two resulting translations, one would hardly guess that they are based on the same source-text. Hence, it would be more useful to talk about overall intents and specific intents. (3) The "original intent" can be (at least) twofold: That intent which the author himself expresses at the beginning of the text (e.g. as a man.gala-verse or as a prayojana-statement), or that which we arrive at after a careful study of the text. These need not be the same. An author might pay lip-service to a certain tradition in the beginning verses ("hereby, I state the theory of blablabla, following the revered master so-and-so"), but then expound his own views, completely irrespective, or maybe even in contradiction, with his initial statements. Add to which, in the case of man.gala-verses, the possibility of them having been added later, again, changes the interpretational framework (e.g. the infamous man.gala-verses of Dharmakiirti's Pramaan.avaarttika). -------- "Non-literalness is...no more a guarantee of fidelity in translation than is mere literalness. For true faithfulness is neither directly nor inversely proportional to any undifferentiated concept of literalness _per se_: everything will depend on what precisely is to be understood by 'literal'. As a criterion, either positive or negative, the concept of literalness thus proves to be something of an irrelevance." (David Seyfort Ruegg, Translating Buddhist Philosophical Texts, Asiatische Studien/Etudes Asiatiques 46/1, 1991, 367-391). Paul Hacker has - in my opinion - convincingly shown that the principle of lexical equivalence is at odds with the idea of consequent literal translation, by which he means that the same word of the source-language is consistently translated with the same word of the target-language (with reference to the translation of philosophical terms - something which, I believe, M. Witzel would like to have discussed. See Paul Hacker, Zur Methode der philologischen Begriffsforschung, ZDMG 115/2, 1965, 195-308.) One should add that the concept of lexical equivalence, of equivalence altogether, has its origins in contrastive linguistics and is used in the comparison of individual languages. (See Mary Snell-Hornby, *bersetzungswissenschaft - eine Neuorientierung: zur Integrierung von Theorie u. Praxis. T*bingen: Francke, 1986, where it is also argued that the German _Aequivalenz_ and the English _equivalence_ are, er, not "equivalent"). In translational studies, the insight that translational equivalence is not a constant, and by no means the same for different types of texts, has lead to an enormous growth of types of equivalences - in 1986, M. Snell-Hornby counted about 58 different types of equivalence. Now, it seems that both Witzel and Houben find it regrettable that a mechanical procedure of translation is not possible - simply replacing one construction/expression for another - in all cases. Houben suggests that "if certain basic transformations are allowed,,,it is possible to remain close to the original and yet produce a 'digestible' translation", and, in particular, points out the problems which a constantly changing lexicon poses for translation (whereas, fortunately, syntax is more stable). This "modular" (Neubert, in Snell-Hornby, op.cit.) approach to equivalence, which ends up calculating one item against another, is a confusion of the tasks of lexicography and the tasks of translation. Lexicography compares languages, semantic fields, individual expresions and their systematical arrangement. Translation involves the constant interaction of two texts, a source-text and a gradually evolving translation, which is directed towards a specific target-audience. Undoubtedly, the process of translation rests on the results of lexicography, and sometimes, a translator finds himself carrying out the business of a lazy lexicographer, but still, producing a translation of a concrete text is not the same as producing a dictionary (Hacker, in his article on "philologische Begriffsforschung", specifically makes a point in confining lexicography to the level of deSaussure's "langue"). A first attempt at engaging in discussions on translation, thus, would have to clarify whether we would like to discuss "philologische Begriffsforschung" a la Hacker, that is, discuss individual terms and what to do about them when translating into different languages, or whether we would like to discuss the process of textual translation, its underlying assumptions, its purpose, what general criteria we can agree on and what other criteria we will eternally fight about. Birgit Kellner Institute for Indian Philosophy University of Hiroshima From jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Fri Jan 5 19:24:59 1996 From: jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (John Gardner) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 96 13:24:59 -0600 Subject: html and sanskrit studies--anyone know who's into it??? Message-ID: <161227022287.23782.13888697003971999705.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> one further question after my last re. Sahota's Kyoto dissertation on purusha. does anyone know anyone doing sanksrit--transliterated or otherwise--online, on CDROM, and--especially--in hypertext mark-up language? I know that George Landau out of Brown Univ. in Rhode Island has marked himself as the trend-setting guru of the electronic soon-to-be-revolution in academia. What of indology and html? please also specify if you know of any good software for importing the tedious array of devanagari diacritics into/onto html and the WEB. many thanks and happy 1996 john robert gardner From pp001460 at interramp.com Sat Jan 6 00:24:28 1996 From: pp001460 at interramp.com (pp001460 at interramp.com) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 96 16:24:28 -0800 Subject: references? Message-ID: <161227022289.23782.5894133967172260267.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > >I'm a student of ethnomusicology and indology and I'm doing my research >on the North Indian sarangi (a musical instrument) and it's social role >in Hindustani music. . . . . Several of your questions aredirectly addressed in Daniel M. Neuman's book _The Life of Music in North India: The Organization of an Artistic Tradition. The University of Chicago Press. !980 & 1990 editions. N. C. Much pp001460 at interramp.com From soumitra at ix.netcom.com Sat Jan 6 01:33:08 1996 From: soumitra at ix.netcom.com (soumitra at ix.netcom.com) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 96 17:33:08 -0800 Subject: references? Message-ID: <161227022291.23782.2952708858908935832.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> You wrote: > > >> >>I'm a student of ethnomusicology and indology and I'm doing my research >>on the North Indian sarangi (a musical instrument) and it's social role >>in Hindustani music. > > . . . > >Several of your questions aredirectly addressed in Daniel M. Neuman's book _The Life of Music in >North India: The Organization of an Artistic Tradition. The University of Chicago Press. !980 & 1990 >editions. > >N. C. Much >pp001460 at interramp.com > > > > There is a collection of books with the Ashis \Khan Music Academy at NJ please contact bobghosh at aol.com .... From c-seely at uchicago.edu Sat Jan 6 21:27:08 1996 From: c-seely at uchicago.edu (c-seely at uchicago.edu) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 96 15:27:08 -0600 Subject: Bengal Studies Conference Message-ID: <161227022293.23782.10698173828769366273.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Bengal Studies Conference--Call for Papers The 31st Bengal Studies Conference will be hosted by Georgetown University, May 3-5, 1996. The BSC provides an academic forum across disciplines and geographic divides in which to reflect upon and share scholarship about Bengal, both Bangladesh and West Bengal, India. It should be noted that the conference is for scholarship, not for the promotion of any religious or political agenda. Please submit a one-page abstract of your paper by February 16th to the following address: Enayetur Rahim Department of History Georgetown University Washington, DC 20057 Phone: 202-687-6061 FAX: 202-687-7245 If you would like to organize a panel, submit names of participants and a one-paragraph abstract of the papers to be presented and notify paper presenters to submit a one-page abstract of their papers. Audio-visual requirements should be indicated on all proposals. The proceedings of the conference will be published by University Press (Dhaka). From bhattara at UMDNJ.EDU Tue Jan 9 02:17:10 1996 From: bhattara at UMDNJ.EDU (Rajib Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 96 21:17:10 -0500 Subject: Bengal Studies Conference Message-ID: <161227022295.23782.879374261446402536.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> hello my name is Rajib Bhattacharya. I would like to have more informaiton about the conference and how to register. Raj -- *-----------------------------------------------------------------------* *Raj Bhattacharya Internet:bhattara at umdnj.edu * *New Jersey Medical School Voice:(201) 481-2771 * *-----------------------------------------------------------------------* From soumitra at ix.netcom.com Tue Jan 9 06:41:54 1996 From: soumitra at ix.netcom.com (soumitra at ix.netcom.com) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 96 22:41:54 -0800 Subject: Bengal Studies Conference Message-ID: <161227022297.23782.16859257734225548266.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> You wrote: > >hello my name is Rajib Bhattacharya. I would like to have more >informaiton about the conference and how to register. > > >Raj >-- > > >*---------------------------------------------------------------------- -* >*Raj Bhattacharya Internet:bhattara at umdnj.edu * >*New Jersey Medical School Voice:(201) 481-2771 * >*---------------------------------------------------------------------- -* > > This is the forwarded message from Clinton Seely to me . You will get all your answers . Message: 66 To: Members of the list From: c-seely at uchicago.edu (Clinton Seely) Subject: Bengal Studies Conference Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 21:33:29 GMT Bengal Studies Conference--Call for Papers The 31st Bengal Studies Conference will be hosted by Georgetown University, May 3-5, 1996. The BSC provides an academic forum across disciplines and geographic divides in which to reflect upon and share scholarship about Bengal, both Bangladesh and West Bengal, India. It should be noted that the conference is for scholarship, not for the promotion of any religious or political agenda. Please submit a one-page abstract of your paper by February 16th to the following address: Enayetur Rahim Department of History Georgetown University Washington, DC 20057 Phone: 202-687-6061 FAX: 202-687-7245 If you would like to organize a panel, submit names of participants and a one-paragraph abstract of the papers to be presented and notify paper presenters to submit a one-page abstract of their papers. Audio-visual requirements should be indicated on all proposals. The proceedings of the conference will be published by University Press (Dhaka). From kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu Tue Jan 9 22:01:22 1996 From: kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu (Kamal Adhikary) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 16:01:22 -0600 Subject: WEB page updates Message-ID: <161227022299.23782.691955284001359121.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dominik, Happy New Year. Your Web page is rich. I have linked it to ours also, and in our restructured format it will appear in the Asia: General/ Regional section. Thanks. _______________ Kamal R. Adhikary, Ph.D. Internet Coordinator, Asian Studies UT, Austin, Texas 78712 Tel:512-475-6034 Email:kamal at asnic.utexas.edu From rkornman at pucc.Princeton.EDU Thu Jan 11 09:16:08 1996 From: rkornman at pucc.Princeton.EDU (Robin Kornman) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 03:16:08 -0600 Subject: Jnaneshvar Message-ID: <161227022301.23782.10806335364707132311.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> No, but if we could be kept up to date on any scholarly or celebratory action with respect to this great Maharashtran poet/saint, it would be extremely groovey. Thirty years ago I was in Alandi. It was one of the most beautiful, peaceful spots I had ever seen. Is it still that way? Or has overpopulation and commercialization robbed it of its charm? Robin Kornman >Next year is the 700th anniversary of Jnaneshvar's mahasamadhi. Does anybody >know the main date(s) of this celebration in Alandi or Poona? Thanks and merry >Christmas again to all. >Hans-Georg Turstig > > > From athr at loc.gov Thu Jan 11 21:53:42 1996 From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 16:53:42 -0500 Subject: Volunteers invited by Library of Congress Asian Division Message-ID: <161227022303.23782.2399558419620329943.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ASIAN DIVISION THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS WASHINGTON. D.C. 20540-4700 V O L U N T E E R O P P O R T U N I T I E S Volunteer opportunities are available in the Asian Division for interested individuals to assist in ongoing programs, such as acquisition, arrearage reduction, cataloging, compilation of bibliographies or guides, creating finding aids, microfilm preparation, organizing reference files, preservation, processing, reference activities, or shelving books and serials. These opportunities depend upon staff availability to provide direction and guidance, given other responsibilities and Library priorities. Individuals interested in offering their services on a gratuitous basis should contact Robert L. Lisbeth, Administrative Officer, Asian Division, Library of Congress, Adams Building Room 130, telephone 202-707-1019, email RLIS at LOC.GOV. From phijag at cobra.nus.sg Thu Jan 11 23:47:53 1996 From: phijag at cobra.nus.sg (phijag at cobra.nus.sg) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 07:47:53 +0800 Subject: jnaneshvar conference Message-ID: <161227022306.23782.3169450697486702255.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Indian Philosophical Congress, Pune Session, celebrarates the 700th mahasamadhi of the philosopher-saint Sri Jnaneshvar from November 24 to November 30, 1996. Particulars may be obtained from Professor S. Barlingay (fax) 0212-342770 (e-mail) G=MITPUNE S=MAEERPUNE P=VSNBOM A=VSNB C=IN or Prof. S. Barlingay S. No. 124 Kothrud, Paud Road, Pune 411 038 Maharashtra, India I was in Alandi 2 years ago and it was (still) an incredibly beautiful and powerful shakti peeth, as far as I am concerned. John Grimes >Next year is the 700th anniversary of Jnaneshvar's mahasamadhi. Does anybody >know the main date(s) of this celebration in Alandi or Poona? Thanks and merry >Christmas again to all. >Hans-Georg Turstig >No, but if we could be kept up to date on any scholarly or celebratory >action with respect to this great Maharashtran poet/saint, it would be >extremely groovey. Thirty years ago I was in Alandi. It was one of the most >beautiful, peaceful spots I had ever seen. Is it still that way? Or has >overpopulation and commercialization robbed it of its charm? --- John Grimes, Dept of Philosophy, NUS From swagata at ccat.sas.upenn.edu Fri Jan 12 14:37:39 1996 From: swagata at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Swagata Altekar) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 09:37:39 -0500 Subject: Jnaneshvar Message-ID: <161227022310.23782.4707247649175237520.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > No, but if we could be kept up to date on any scholarly or celebratory > action with respect to this great Maharashtran poet/saint, it would be > extremely groovey. Thirty years ago I was in Alandi. It was one of the most > beautiful, peaceful spots I had ever seen. Is it still that way? Or has > overpopulation and commercialization robbed it of its charm? Hello Robin , I am told by my Maharashtrian friends that the hotels and restaurants in Alandi are many more in number now in last 10 years but still it is a calm and quiet place for sure. By the way, I would like to know how you got interested in this great Maharashtrian saint/poet ? Have you read "Dnyaneshwari" or have you heard the beautiful audio tapes that have songs/abhangas by Dnynneshwar ? -- Swagata . *************************************************************** If better is possible, good is not enough. *************************************************************** Swagata Altekar, 320 South 42nd Street, Philadelphia, PA 19104. Tel.Number : (215) 243 - 1127. From jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Fri Jan 12 19:57:33 1996 From: jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (John Gardner) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 13:57:33 -0600 Subject: jnaneshvar conference Message-ID: <161227022317.23782.3214648970924664314.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> please include further info, or how to use e-mail to cantact for further info re. IPC in Nov. 96, from your note it wasnot clear what e-mail address to use as there did not appear to be an e-mail address int he body of your text. jrg From garzilli at shore.net Fri Jan 12 19:00:02 1996 From: garzilli at shore.net (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 14:00:02 -0500 Subject: Sanskrit lovers Message-ID: <161227022315.23782.12044200697388106980.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In our web page (http://www.shore.net/~india/ijts) you can find a small gift for Sanskrit lovers (everybody, here!) which changes for each of you.... I hope you enjoy it. Dott. Enrica Garzilli Editor, IJTS From phijag at cobra.nus.sg Fri Jan 12 06:23:42 1996 From: phijag at cobra.nus.sg (phijag at cobra.nus.sg) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 14:23:42 +0800 Subject: reference Message-ID: <161227022308.23782.11037835521842132214.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Would anyone happen to know the sanskrit shloka, and its source, for: "the mantra, the mantra's deity, and the repeater of the mantra are not different" In advance, thank you. John Grimes --- John Grimes, Dept of Philosophy, NUS From ibric at sri.lanka.net Sat Jan 13 00:21:00 1996 From: ibric at sri.lanka.net (ibric at sri.lanka.net) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 00:21:00 +0000 Subject: Test Message-ID: <161227022313.23782.11882801856085836032.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This morning a thirtysomething lady from Germany left the household life and became a buddhist nun ( agaarasmaa anagaariya.m pabbajanti ) at the Dharmaayatanaya in Maharagama , Sri Lanka . Bhikkhu Bodhi of the Buddhist Publication Society ( BPS ) , Kandy was present at this occassion as was our Director Bhikkhu Dhammavihaari ( formerly Professor Jotiya Dhiirasekera ) and during their conversation Venerable Bodhi had quoted from memory a passage from the Jaataka . Having come to our Institution for his midday meal , after the meal when showing him around our facilities Venerable Dhammavihaari requested me to use the search facility of our Tripitaka Computer Program to locate the passage quoted by Venerable Bodhi to him in the morning . After locating the passage in the dasaratha jaataka of the ekaadaskanipaata of the jaatakapali , we discussed its meaning further . The discussion had to be terminated prematurely before we could read the english translation as Venerable Bodhi's transport back to Kandy had arrived . Having given the history behind the reason for this " TEST " , I thought it would be useful to quote the Jataka passage to all of you on the Insight , JBE , Indology , Buddha - L & Buddhist lists and see what response it evokes . ekova macco acceti ekova jaayate kule sa??ogaparamaatveva sambhogaa sabbapaa.nina.m . J iv , 127 [ dasarathajaataka.m # 461 ] Pali Text Society Edition , London . J i , 406 [ verse 1622 , dasarathajaataka.m # 461 ] Buddha Jayanti Tripitaka Series Edition , Sri Lanka ., 1983 . " One mortal dies - to kindred ties born is another straight : Each creature's bliss dependent is on ties associate " . Jaataka Stories iv , 81 ., Book XI . translated by W . H . D . Rouse , M . A . sometime fellow of Christ's College , Cambridge . under the Editorship of Professor E . B . Cowell . Pali Text Society Edition , London ., 1957 . [ re - translated by Bhikkhu Dhammavihari ] " Humans depart from this world singly , they are born into families singly . Successful communion of all beings is primarily based on specific relationships " . Cp ... sa.myogaparamaatveva sambhogaa sabbapaa.nina.m ... S i , 225 ( 8 ) . Pali Text Society Edition , London ., . S i , 402 [ 11. 1 . 8 , 254 ] . Buddha Jayanti Tripitaka Series Edition , Sri Lanka ., 1960 . With Muditaa Aru.na Ila'ngasi'mha IBRIC ibric at sri.lanka.net From phijag at cobra.nus.sg Fri Jan 12 23:49:47 1996 From: phijag at cobra.nus.sg (phijag at cobra.nus.sg) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 07:49:47 +0800 Subject: per Jnanesvar conference Message-ID: <161227022319.23782.5101468663745098591.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> John Gardner wrote >please include further info, or how to use e-mail to cantact for further >info re. IPC in Nov. 96, from your note it wasnot clear what e-mail >address to use as there did not appear to be an e-mail address int he >body of your text. In a recent letter, Professor Barlingay wrote: "The dates of the Jnanesvar conference will be November 24 to November 30, 1996. It will be like a joint session or parliament of Indian Philosophical Congress, All India Darshan parishad, Maharashtra Tatvajnana Parishad, World Philosophers Meet, Afro-Asian Philosophy Conference, etc. I am giving below the exact e'mail address. It should be typed as follows - G=MITPUNE S=MAEERPUNE P=VSNBOM A=VSNB C=IN" Now you know as much as I do. The above is an exact quote. For more information, you may write or fax Professor S.S. Barlingay 9 Moreshwar Hsg. Soc. Baner Road, Pune 411 007 (tel 35 12 22) (fax) 0212 342770 John Grimes --- John Grimes, Dept of Philosophy, NUS From selindqu at midway.uchicago.edu Mon Jan 15 03:52:19 1996 From: selindqu at midway.uchicago.edu (selindqu at midway.uchicago.edu) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 21:52:19 -0600 Subject: NEH Seminar on Asceticism and Renunciation Message-ID: <161227022321.23782.10973357647489386150.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Subject: NEH Seminar on Asceticism and Renunciation Please distribute this notice anywhere you think is appropriate (departments, listservs, etc.) --- Steven E. Lindquist Dept. of S. Asian Lang. & Civ. NEH Program Assistant University of Chicago --- Asceticism, Religion and Civilization in South Asia: Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism National Endowment for the Humanities Summer Seminar for College Teachers Professor Steven Collins, Director 24 June 1996 - 16 August 1996 University of Chicago This 8-week seminar will explore asceticism as a phenomenon in the history and comparison of civilizations. Not all civilizations have given a place to ascetic values and practices: among those which have, none has done so more clearly than the South Asian. Ascetics reject the basic requirements of society: production and reproduction, providing the food and children necessary for any continuing collectivity. In what sense can asceticism be of value to the majority of members, male and/or female, of any society? The meetings will examine classical texts from the three religions, as well as modern secondary sources and documentary films, intending to offer a creative environment for the individual research projects of participants, who may be either South Asia specialists or other interested scholars. Participants receive a stipend of $4000. The application deadline is 1 March 1996. Notification date is 29 March 1996. Applicants cannot be enrolled graduate students and cannot be from institutions which grant a graduate degree in a field related to the above topic (South Asian Studies, etc.). Please contact via email for fastest response (information can be emailed and an application can be sent via regular mail). For Information and Applications, contract: Professor Steven Collins Dept. of South Asian Languages and Civilizations University of Chicago Foster Hall, 1130 E.59th. Chicago IL 60637 [email: selindqu at rainbow.uchicago.edu] From RKSarin at aol.com Mon Jan 15 12:30:32 1996 From: RKSarin at aol.com (RKSarin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 07:30:32 -0500 Subject: Bhatts Message-ID: <161227022324.23782.631705124467429397.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> While researching Bhatts (minstrels/bards) I found the following verse attributed to the Rai Bhats of Gurgaon: "Hamin That, Hamin Bhatt, Hamin Bhaunra, Hamin Bhagi, Hamin bir Betal, Hamin jangal ke jogi, Kapra pharen mang karar bandh mandar aren Betal kahen Bikram suno dev dan kirat karen" (from Rose: Glossary of Tribes & Castes of Punjab & NW Frontier Province) Apparently Betal was a medieval poet (probably a Bhatt). But I can't help thinking of the Baital Pachisi of Vikramaditya esp. since Bikram's name is mentioned in the last line. Does anyone know if there is a connection between Bhatts and Vikramaditya? My direct E-mail is amitasarin at aol.com From asalgia at students.uiuc.edu Mon Jan 15 20:27:18 1996 From: asalgia at students.uiuc.edu (Amardeep Salgia) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 14:27:18 -0600 Subject: Jain religion in a scientific perspective (fwd) Message-ID: <161227022326.23782.5015805113409178475.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 14:19:15 -0600 (CST) From: Amardeep Salgia To: jain-list at wavefront.com Subject: Re: Jain religion in a scientific perspective Last December, someone inquired about sources on "Jain religion in a scientific perspective". Though I do not know if Jung deals with Jainism in any of his works, there are several sources which together form an exellent introduction to the scientific laudability of Jain cosmology and psychology. The book "Cosmology: Old and New" by the late Prof. G.R. Jain (Bharatiya Jnanpith, 1974) is an analysis of the fifth chapter of Acharya Umasvati's "Tattvartha Sutra". Sentence by sentence, he explains the definitions of the Prakrit words and incorporates material from three other ancient works: the "Dravya Samgraha", "Sarvartha Siddhi", and "Panchastikaya Sara". He puts them through severe scrutiny in light of modern physics, and exposes many unique elements of Jain cosmology that are quite accurate, and indicative of their having origins in something much greater than mere philosophical speculation. For myself, it has been a most influential work. Another book is "Neuroscience & Karma: The Jain Doctrine of Psycho-Physical Force" by Prof. Jethalal S. Zaveri and Muni Mahendra Kumar (Jain Vishva Bharati Institute, 1992). The former author has also written "Microcosmology: Atom in Jain Philosophy and Modern Science". I am currently reading the first book, which appears to be a take off on some of G.R. Jain's postulates regarding karma-pudgal and the electromagnetic field that arises due to electical activity of the nervous system. While we generally think of karma as the influx or shedding of material particles, both Jain and Zaveri show that in the Jain texts themselves primarily the word "karma-pudgal" is used, where pudgal denotes the continuum of matter and energy. The publisher of these two works, Jain Vishva Bharati Institute, is addressed at "Ladnun - 341306 (Rajasthan, India)". While many scholars of an anthropological background have contented themselves in styling Jain cosmology and psychology as philosophical developments of primitive anxieties regarding "environmental instabillity" and notions of birth, death, "good" and "bad", an individual of a scientific or engineering background would certainly hesitate to treat them as such. One important point for all those interested in exploring Jainism's cosmology and psychology is that the Jain texts which have preserved this knowledge are very explicit. The Acharyas of centuries ago said exactly what they meant, and we do not have to fabricate fancy translations of words, like some Vedantin Hindus and scientific creationists do. -- Amar Salgia URH 224 Townsend 1010 West Illinois St. Urbana, IL 61801 (217) 332-4068 asalgia at uiuc.edu On Wed, 13 Dec 1995: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 02:07:07 GMT > From: Mannish Kothari > To: Members of the list > Subject: Jain religion in a scientific perspective > > Hello, > > I am looking for Scientific analysis of Jain religion in English. > Also looking for Carl Jung analysis of Jain religion. > Does anyone know where it can be found ? > Please send it to me if you have it. > > Thanks > > Mannish > > > > From fsmith at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Wed Jan 17 18:35:35 1996 From: fsmith at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (F. Smith) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 12:35:35 -0600 Subject: Jnaneshvar Message-ID: <161227022328.23782.3794101785500987846.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I was in Alandi less than a month ago. Always there has been a bit of a battering from the local pandaas, but it's really quite bearable. Thus it has not become overly commercialized, at least not when compared to places in north India such as Vrindaban. There is a new bridge over the Indrayani, just next to the mandir complex, which has also not much spoiled things. In short, Alandi remains beautiful, delightful, and (relatively) quiet. Fred Smith Asian Lang & Lit / School of Religion Univ. of Iowa From gthursby at religion.ufl.edu Wed Jan 17 19:30:57 1996 From: gthursby at religion.ufl.edu (Gene Thursby) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 14:30:57 -0500 Subject: Hinduism Textbooks for Hindu Readership Message-ID: <161227022329.23782.7707333282664681315.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Can anyone recommend references on the history of the development of textbooks on Hinduism for use in India in the 19th and 20th century? The Theosophical Society produced some in English. Doubtless there were others. Has this topic been heavily worked already? Do any accounts come to mind? References and recommendations would be most welcome. Gene Thursby From lorenzen at colmex.mx Wed Jan 17 23:00:29 1996 From: lorenzen at colmex.mx (David Lorenzen S.) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 17:00:29 -0600 Subject: Hinduism Textbooks for Hindu Readership Message-ID: <161227022331.23782.11077504722485826306.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There was a panel on "Higher Education and the Emergence of Ethnic Identities in India" chaired by Gail Minault in the 1995 AAS Annual Meeting. In this panel Leah Young Renold of U. Texas presented a paper on "Defining the 'Hindu' in BHU" that dealt with the use of Annie Besant's text on Hinduism in BHU. From ludo at shore.net Thu Jan 18 00:17:22 1996 From: ludo at shore.net (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 19:17:22 -0500 Subject: sci.philosophy.natural Message-ID: <161227022333.23782.17400622930687669982.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Some members of the list may find this interesting: Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups Subject: New Usenet Groups Date: 15 Jan 1996 22:41:21 -0000 Sender: tale at uunet.uu.net (...) These groups failed their votes for creation or to have their moderation status changed as reported on the date given. The proponents listed might be able to provide more information on other forums for the topics of the intended groups, such as mailing lists or groups in alternative newsgroup hierarchies. GROUP STAT VOTE DATE INFO CONTACT (...) sci.philosophy.natural FAIL 101:41 1221 wagers at computek.net From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Thu Jan 18 11:33:08 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 11:33:08 +0000 Subject: Sanskrit lovers Message-ID: <161227022336.23782.12252837667470646890.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Enrica Garzilli said: > > In our web page (http://www.shore.net/~india/ijts) you can find a small > gift for Sanskrit lovers (everybody, here!) which changes for each of > you.... > I hope you enjoy it. Very much indeed! How delightful! Many thanks, Dominik From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Thu Jan 18 11:37:34 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 11:37:34 +0000 Subject: Screen Fonts? Message-ID: <161227022337.23782.17103396229729877883.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Lance Nelson said: > > Question: Why do the screen fonts designed for Sanskrit transliteration > look so unfinished in Windows programs? > > I've downloaded two fonts: Dominic's CS Bitstream Charter and Jamie > Hubbard's Sanskrit Times New Roman GE. I've also tried Linguist's > Software's TransIndic LS. All true type for Windows, in Word Perfect > 6.1, also tried in WinWord 6.0. All of them print nicely, but look very > uneven on screen, with some letters fatter than others, etc. Am I doing > something wrong? Any advice appreciated. I think the problem here is probably to do with font hinting. I can't speak for Jamie's fonts, which I haven't seen, but when Peter and I were looking at the Bitstream Charter, we used a font editing tool that allowed one to copy characters to new positions, and then fiddle with them. However the copied characters lost the hinting that was there for the originals. It is possible to put the hinting in, but it's pretty tedious. Since the printed results at 300dpi and above is fine, I personally haven't had the oomph to do anything about the hinting. But as soon as I have some time ... (aaah ha ha ha ... crazed, maniac laughter ...). Dominik From mehtank at server.sasw.ncsu.edu Fri Jan 19 00:17:11 1996 From: mehtank at server.sasw.ncsu.edu (nishit khushal mehta) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 19:17:11 -0500 Subject: China and India Message-ID: <161227022339.23782.17297889772902862772.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, everyone my name is Nishit and I am a political science student at North Carolina State University. I am currently designing, researching, and writing my own paper. The topic I have chosen is the relationship between China and India. If anyone has any information or knows who does have the information pertaining to the economic and strategic relationship between these two countries I would greatly appreciate it if you would drop me a line. Thanks, Nishit K. Mehta >?From 100734.2313 at compuserve.com 19 96 Jan EST 03:23:16 Date: 19 Jan 96 03:23:16 EST From: " \\9$9J7F8@*?f:&8" <100734.2313 at compuserve.com> Subject: Jnaneshvar The complete email address for Prof. Barlingay in Pune is as follows: S=MITPUNE%S=MITPUNE%G=MAEERPUNE%P=VSNBOM%VSNB at mcimail.com Hope to see many of you in Pune and / or Alandi to commemorate and celebrate the 700th anniversary of Jnaneshvar's mahasamadhi. Hans-Georg Tuerstig From mmdesh at umich.edu Fri Jan 19 14:58:05 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 09:58:05 -0500 Subject: new publications Message-ID: <161227022341.23782.15371607700316260830.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would like to draw your attention to two new publications: 1. Concise History of the Language Sciences, ed. by Koerner and Asher, Pergamon, UK, 1995. This volume contains five articles directly related to India: 1. Paninian Linguistics, Paul Kiparsky 2. Indian Theories of Meaning, Frits Staal 3. Ancient Indian Phonetics, Madhav Deshpande 4. Tamil Linguistic Tradition, Kamil V. Zvelebil 5. Discovery of Sanskrit by Europeans, Rosane Rocher 2. Book in Marathi: Samskrit aaNi Praakrit Bhaazaa: Vyavahaara, Niyamana, aaNi Shaastracarcaa. "Sanskrit and Prakrit Languages: Usage, Control, and Linguistic Theory". Madhav M. Deshpande. Pune, India. 1995. Shubhada Saraswat Prakashan. >?From 100734.2313 at compuserve.com 19 96 Jan EST 13:23:14 Date: 19 Jan 96 13:23:14 EST From: " \\9$9J7F8@*?f:&8" <100734.2313 at compuserve.com> Subject: Jnaneshvar Mizue Sugita wrote to me: "Maybe because of the language system, I think almost of all the members of Indology cannot read your id address or your message. Your name and your information comes as follows. From: " \\9$9J7F8@*?f:&8" <100734.2313 at compuserve.com>" Unfortunately it is true that my name doesn't appear in normal letters but as numeric code: \\9$9J7F8@*?f:&8. The customer service of compuserve is working on this since quite a while and I hope the name will soon show up in normal letters. If any of you have an idea what to do about this please let me know. However, the messages are correct, i.e the complete email address for Prof. Barlingay in Pune is indeed as follows: S=MITPUNE%S=MITPUNE%G=MAEERPUNE%P=VSNBOM%VSNB at mcimail.com Hans-Georg Tuerstig From mail07464 at pop.net Sat Jan 20 03:59:43 1996 From: mail07464 at pop.net (mail07464 at pop.net) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 19:59:43 -0800 Subject: Zeitshcrift fur Indologie Message-ID: <161227022346.23782.12607474210047917751.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> After searching unsuccessfully through online catalogs in the US, may I ask this question: would somebody know how to get a hold of an article by F.J. Meier in Zeitschrift fur Indologie und Iranistik, viii, 1931, pp. 33-79? Thank you very much. Beatrice From mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk Fri Jan 19 20:44:57 1996 From: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 20:44:57 +0000 Subject: Update on home for the Pali Canon Message-ID: <161227022343.23782.3660370809156018356.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Following on from the postings about this late last year, listreaders may wish to hear the current state of play. It is planned to place a copy of the complete Pali Canon in the Ceylon BJT edition on the Net as public domain data. Initially, it will be posted on the U.S. and U.K. websites for the JBE and funnelled from there to other locations (Indology, Library of Congress and probably Coombsarchives). PTS page references have been added for the Vinaya and the first four Nikaayas; others will be added later. The texts of Nett, Pe.t and Mil are also included. There are still many errors in the data and it is undoubtedly generous of IBRIC to make it available in this preliminary stage. Someone will certainly criticize it ! N'atthi loke anindito. It is hoped that corrected versions will be posted at intervals and funnelled in the same way from the JBE sites. Currently, a Syquest cartridge, hopefully containing the complete set of data has been received in the U.K. (Manchester). Unfortunately, a delay has been caused by the fact that it has proved unexpectedly difficult to find a drive to read Syquest 270M cartridges. (My error, I'm afraid.) In any case, this should be sorted out in early February at the latest and the data could be on the JBE sites later that month, if not before. (If there are any U.K. readers who know of such a drive in the North-West, please let me know and we might be able to speed up this timetable.) Lance Cousins MANCHESTER, UK Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk From mail07464 at pop.net Sat Jan 20 15:43:06 1996 From: mail07464 at pop.net (mail07464 at pop.net) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 07:43:06 -0800 Subject: Zeitshcrift fur Indologie Message-ID: <161227022351.23782.6426611370920594401.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you so much for your kind help, Dr. Magier. I'll go for interlibrary loan. Beatrice From magier at columbia.edu Sat Jan 20 13:29:35 1996 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 08:29:35 -0500 Subject: Zeitshcrift fur Indologie Message-ID: <161227022349.23782.5869534619808061956.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > would somebody know how to get a hold of an article by F.J. Meier in > Zeitschrift fur Indologie und Iranistik, viii, 1931, pp. 33-79? A quick scan of OCLC WorldCat shows that the following libraries hold the Zeitschrift (though not *necessarily* that particular volume). It is very likely that *many* other libraries also hold it, but have simply not converted their catalog records (from the 1920's) to their online catalogs yet ;-) David Magier STATE UNIV OF NEW YORK, BINGHAMTON LIBR UNIV OF ROCHESTER UNIV OF GEORGIA UNIV OF HAWAII, HAMILTON LIBR CENTRAL INDIANA HEALTH SCI, LIBR CONSORTIUM INDIANA UNIV CHRISTIAN THEOL SEMINARY UNIV OF MASSACHUSETTS AT AMHERST From d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Sat Jan 20 14:46:13 1996 From: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk (d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 09:46:13 -0500 Subject: review indology Message-ID: <161227022347.23782.15938925797692067232.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:25:32 GMT you wrote: >Please send me teh list of members. > >Regards >Muraleedharan N To get a listing of INDOLOGY members, send the message review indology to the address listserv at liverpool.ac.uk and the listing will be sent to you as email a few minutes later. Dominik From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Sun Jan 21 14:49:19 1996 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 96 15:49:19 +0100 Subject: urdu-hindi teaching Message-ID: <161227022353.23782.16581933824212075555.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In order to defend our position for hindi at our department (administrative nasties are threatening to replace it with another subject) I need some information about the teaching of urdu and hindi at Australian and Canadian universities. Question 1: Which universities teach regular urdu and/or hindi courses? Question 2: How many students tend to attend these courses? Question 3: How many students take examinations at higher levels? Thank you for your help! Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Research Fellow Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From rkornman at pucc.Princeton.EDU Mon Jan 22 03:09:45 1996 From: rkornman at pucc.Princeton.EDU (Robin Kornman) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 96 21:09:45 -0600 Subject: Jnaneshvar Message-ID: <161227022355.23782.15372040310424107369.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Oh, I was a disciple of Swami Muktananda in Ganeshpuri in 1970. I was a guard at that ashram. But I decided I didn't want to do the Kundalini yoga and so became a Buddhist instead. Back in the USSA. Robin Kornman >> No, but if we could be kept up to date on any scholarly or celebratory >> action with respect to this great Maharashtran poet/saint, it would be >> extremely groovey. Thirty years ago I was in Alandi. It was one of the most >> beautiful, peaceful spots I had ever seen. Is it still that way? Or has >> overpopulation and commercialization robbed it of its charm? > >Hello Robin , > >I am told by my Maharashtrian friends that the hotels and restaurants in >Alandi are many more in number now in last 10 years but still it is a >calm and quiet place for sure. > >By the way, I would like to know how you got interested in this great >Maharashtrian saint/poet ? Have you read "Dnyaneshwari" or have you >heard the beautiful audio tapes that have songs/abhangas by Dnynneshwar ? > >-- Swagata . >*************************************************************** >If better is possible, good is not enough. >*************************************************************** >Swagata Altekar, 320 South 42nd Street, Philadelphia, PA 19104. >Tel.Number : (215) 243 - 1127. > > > From athr at loc.gov Mon Jan 22 21:58:03 1996 From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 16:58:03 -0500 Subject: Lecture on Indonesia Puppetry Message-ID: <161227022356.23782.4627282318966577550.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS ASIAN DIVISION PRESENTS: WAYANG GOLEK PURWA : CLASSICAL INDONESIAN PUPPETRY FROM WEST-JAVA Speaker: Walter O. Koenig Independent Scholar at the Library of Congress Tuesday: January 30, 1996 - 12:30 - 1:30 Madison Building : West Dining Room Wayang Golek Purwa, the traditional puppet theater from West-Java utilizes colorful, 3-D, solid wooden puppets. The origins of Wayang Golek undoubtedly go back to Central Java and Wayang Kulit which uses leather puppets whose shadows are silhouetted on a screen, and are better know to people in the West. Wayang Golek Purwa, however, is extremely popular in West-Java. Mr. Koenig currently has a collection of over 130 Wayang Golek Purwa puppets and is conducting research on the iconography of the puppets and the transmission of the Mahabharata tradition from India to Indonesia. He will present examples of different puppets utilized and give an introduction to this fascinating art form. From kripa at cedar.buffalo.edu Tue Jan 23 17:51:49 1996 From: kripa at cedar.buffalo.edu (v kr.pAsundar) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 12:51:49 -0500 Subject: H-E-L-P! Question about Hindi--a moment of your time Message-ID: <161227022360.23782.16316047019678102209.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Michael T. Wescoat says: => Attention all Hindi speakers, => => I am on the lip of getting a linguistics paper published, but the => editor wants me to collect more data about Hindi. [...] => If you are a native speaker of Hindi, may I please beg a => moment of your time? => => First would you please answer the following question: => => Do you regard yourself as a native speaker of Hindi? => YOUR RESPONSE [yes/no]: => => Next, would you rate the following sentences [...]? I would like to very gently question this research methodology as being capable of producing publishable results. It is no doubt very effective in producing quick *partial* confirmation/denial of a hypothesis. It would thus allow us to prune out unlikely theories, and allow us to concentrate on more rigourous verification of the likely ones. But i, for one, would not find it acceptable to simply compute statistics based on email responses to a simple questionnaire such as this one. "Do you regard yourself ..." is scarcely a thorough test of fluency in or familiarity with a language. I would like to hear from others who (dis)agree with me on this point. peace, --kr.pA From jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Tue Jan 23 21:15:42 1996 From: jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (John Gardner) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 15:15:42 -0600 Subject: One additional HTML inquiry Message-ID: <161227022362.23782.8495541780234842510.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you to those of you who have rsponded to my queries re. html and sanskrit. I am using html to cross-reference a pool of 21 terms from early vedic all of which have reference to notions of the self. html is enabling rapid access and comparison of verson and easily associative linkage according to phonetic derivations, or without error due to them. if anyone is currently working even roughly close to these lines, please contact me. thank you all for your time. jrg From wescoat at lisa.lang.osaka-u.ac.jp Tue Jan 23 15:36:13 1996 From: wescoat at lisa.lang.osaka-u.ac.jp (Michael Wescoat) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 00:36:13 +0900 Subject: H-E-L-P! Question about Hindi--a moment of your time Message-ID: <161227022358.23782.8397479073315831412.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Attention all Hindi speakers, I am on the lip of getting a linguistics paper published, but the editor wants me to collect more data about Hindi. The data take the form of native speakers' intuitive reactions to a set of sentences. You can help save my butt just by examining five little Hindi sentences and rating them according to a four-point scale. If you are a native speaker of Hindi, may I please beg a moment of your time? First would you please answer the following question: Do you regard yourself as a native speaker of Hindi? YOUR RESPONSE [yes/no]: Next, would you rate the following sentences with a 1, 2, 3, or 4? A rating of 4 means that the sentence is perfectly normal and acceptable. A rating of 1 means that the sentence is clearly unacceptable as an utterance in Hindi. If you feel that the sentence falls in between these extremes, you may use 3 or 2. A rating of 3 would mean that the sentence is somewhat questionable, and a rating of 2 would mean that the sentence is highly questionable. Please, no decimal points! Of course, it is your INTUITIVE reaction that I am interested in. Here are the sentences: 1. ilaa chote bacce khojtii rahtii hai YOUR RESPONSE [1 (=bad), 2, 3, or 4 (=good)]: 2. ilaa khoe-hue bacce khojtii rahtii hai YOUR RESPONSE [1, 2, 3, or 4]: 3. anil ne jaapaanii larkiyaaN dekhiiN YOUR RESPONSE [1, 2, 3, or 4]: 4. ilaa bacce hameshaa khojtii rahtii hai YOUR RESPONSE [1, 2, 3, or 4]: 5. ilaa khoe-hue hameshaa bacce khojtii rahtii hai YOUR RESPONSE [1, 2, 3, or 4]: Please send your responses to me directly: wescoat at lisa.lang.osaka-u.ac.jp Your sharing your intuitions will be an IMMENSE help to me. I thank you in advance. By the way, if you have any comments about these sentences or this questionnaire, I would be happy to see them. However, in order to allow me to perform a statistical analysis, please do not forget to rate each sentence with a 1, 2, 3, or 4. Many, many, many thanks, Michael T. Wescoat From unknown at example.com Wed Jan 24 13:38:07 1996 From: unknown at example.com (unknown at example.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 07:38:07 -0600 Subject: Tulane university-Texas: Where?? Message-ID: <161227022366.23782.10277880451287271122.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Friends, Where is Tulane University-Texas? In what city of Texas? I believe is a Christian university, a small school and not the large university by the same name in New Orleans. Thanks, N. Ganesan nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov >?From P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk 24 96 Jan EST 14:05:00 Date: 24 Jan 96 14:05:00 EST From: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk Subject: Hindi/Panjabi/Rajasthani Reply-To: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII *This is a question about the relationship between grammar, literature and language.* I have been working for some time now on a project to catalogue over a thousand manuscripts in Hindi and Panjabi. They date from ca. CE 1500 onwards (Hindi mss) and c. CE 1700 onwards (Panjabi mss). Now in the case of 20th century works it is fairly clear that Hindi and Panjabi can be distinguished by their grammers. But it seems to me in pre20th century works this distinction is much less clear. In particular because many works are in varieties of Brajabhasa, and other dialects, and can be found in both histories of Hindi and Panjabi literature. Likewise, there are many instances of works that some describe as Rajasthani, or Old Rajasthani, and some describe as Old Gujarati (and some describe as Maru-gujari). So I would be grateful for any pointers towards contemporary academic discussion of this issue, what distinguishes such SA languages. Or any comments from list members on how they decide to refer to a pre-modern text as being in Hindi/Panjabi/Rajasthani etc. Dr Peter G. Friedlander Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine 183 Euston Road London NW1 2BN England e-mail: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk From mrabe at artic.edu Wed Jan 24 15:06:02 1996 From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 10:06:02 -0500 Subject: Unidentified Manuscript, with gopis? Message-ID: <161227022370.23782.5796974915697135668.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear friends with an interest in north Indian epigraphy and bhakti literature: The Krannert Museum of Art, University of Illinois, Urbana, owns a Kotah style miniature (5 3/4" x 8 1/2") that carries three lines of an as-yet unidentified text. The painting below depicts four women in a riverbank arbor of flowering trees, the outer two reverentially holding a peacock fan and a fresh-plucked, long-stem lotus. Might they be companions of Radha, together waiting for Krishna? In hopes that someone might recognize a telling phrase in the accompanying text I sent a scan to Dominik who has graciously posted it on his Web site, in a new section called "Indology member queries." I'd much appreciate suggestions of possible texts to scour even just based on these preliminary clues: after the last pada of a verse 52, the next section's fourth of at least seven phrases [each separated by double red lines] seems to read "sura-nara-nAga-loka-mana-mohUM" (?). Also, it may be that the 3rd akzara in line one is rather than the z of modern devanagari it looks like, to judge by a charting of 18th c. TAkrI and ShArada scripts. Thanks much to any with graphical browsers who may venture to take a look, Michael Rabe Saint Xavier University School of the Art Institute of Chicago mrabe at artic.edu From strnad at site.cas.cz Wed Jan 24 09:17:25 1996 From: strnad at site.cas.cz (Jaroslav Strnad) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 11:17:25 +0200 Subject: H-E-L-P! Question about Hindi--a moment Message-ID: <161227022364.23782.13589134050915659296.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> "kr.pa"'s scepticism about the methodology is, I think, partly unobjectionable; to me, the problem seems to lie not so much in the idea itself but rather in the incompleteness of data assembled with the help of the present questionnaire. I feel that M. Westcoat may be anxious not to deter possible respondents by too detailed questions; let us expect somewhat greater patience on the part of interested respondents who might be willing to anwer shortly some supplementary questions: their laguage background (native region, present contact with the language) and, in case that the test sentences are marked 1,2, or 3, the variant that the respondent feels to be the correct one. I myself as compiler of a Hindi-Czech dictionary and occassional teacher of this language would be interested in the answers, supplemented by these suggested supplementary questions or not. Some of the respondents may be interested too. Regards, _____________________________ Jaroslav Strnad Oriental Institute Czech Academy of Sciences Pod vodarenskou vezi 4 182 08 Praha 8 CZECH REPUBLIC e-mail: strnad at orient.cas.cz ______________________________ From vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu Wed Jan 24 18:16:28 1996 From: vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 13:16:28 -0500 Subject: How to subscribe to vyakarana list Message-ID: <161227022371.23782.15878207119894244931.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would appreciate if someone can tell me the subscription address for the vyakarana list (vyakaran at email.uni-kiel.de). I tried postmaster at email..., From conlon at u.washington.edu Wed Jan 24 21:38:47 1996 From: conlon at u.washington.edu (Frank Conlon) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 13:38:47 -0800 Subject: Maharashtra Studies Group Message-ID: <161227022377.23782.8329888655969029719.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> From: Frank Conlon I take the liberty of forwarding to Indology, a post from H-ASIA concerning the Maharashtra Studies Group, an affiliate of the Association for Asian Studies. Frank Conlon University of Washington To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA Subject: H-ASIA: CFP Maharashtra Studies Group at A.A.S. 4/12/96 H-ASIA January 24, 1996 Call for participation: Maharashtra Studies Group conference at A.A.S., Honolulu, April 12 ************************************************************************ From: EZELLIOT at carleton.edu The Maharashtra Studies Group will hold a conference meeting in Honolulu during the Association for Asian Studies annual conference on Friday, April 12, 9 to 11 a.m. in Iolani 7 at the Hilton Hawaiian Village (the AAS conference hotel). The format involves introductions of all participating scholars and reports on new books and new projects and new people, and general conversation arising therefrom. All scholars with interests in Bombay/Mumbai, Maharashtra and adjacent areas, are cordially invited to attend. Eleanor Zelliot Carleton College ezelliot at carleton.edu ======================================================================== From jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Wed Jan 24 20:00:47 1996 From: jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (John Gardner) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 14:00:47 -0600 Subject: mailing-lists Message-ID: <161227022375.23782.1568814472276729839.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> perhaps review the file that came with the subscription you made ot this list serve. it is possible to have a sort of "whole earth listserv" data file sent to you. mind you, it amounts to over 700 pages of mind-blurring lists, but you'll probably find your topic--and many others you never even knew you needed--in many forms. it is roughly alphabetized. jrg From jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Wed Jan 24 20:03:20 1996 From: jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (John Gardner) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 14:03:20 -0600 Subject: How to subscribe to vyakarana list Message-ID: <161227022373.23782.14623325724900461221.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> please let me know if you find it as well. jrg From provasi at ling.unipi.it Wed Jan 24 15:03:51 1996 From: provasi at ling.unipi.it (provasi at ling.unipi.it) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 16:03:51 +0100 Subject: mailing-lists Message-ID: <161227022368.23782.16465264386467617565.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anybody know about e-mail lists on Ancient and Middle Iranian studies? Many thanks Elio Provasi Dipartimento di Linguistica Universita' di Pisa Italy From magier at columbia.edu Wed Jan 24 21:49:57 1996 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 16:49:57 -0500 Subject: mailing-lists Message-ID: <161227022379.23782.13690507398620110796.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > perhaps review the file that came with the subscription you made ot this > list serve. it is possible to have a sort of "whole earth listserv" data > file sent to you. mind you, it amounts to over 700 pages of > mind-blurring lists, but you'll probably find your topic--and many others > you never even knew you needed--in many forms. it is roughly alphabetized. The South Asia Gopher (gopher://gopher.cc.columbia.edu:71/11/clioplus/scholarly/SouthAsia) has, under the SOUTH ASIANISTS sub-menu, a listing of all South Asia-related mailing lists and listservs, complete with descriptions and instructions for each. The entry for VYAKARAN follows below. David Magier (The South Asia Gopher) Columbia University --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to Vyakaran, the mailing list for all aspects of South Asian linguistics! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This list was started in October 1995 as an informal forum for all who are interested in the languages of South Asia, both modern and classical. The aim of this list is to further discussion among interested scholars in ALL aspects of South Asian languages, primarily but not only Indo-Aryan languages. Thus comments and questions on everything from historical linguistics to the modern Indo-Aryan languages, from socio-linguistics to morphology and syntax, from phonology and diglossia to Panini and the Hindi-Urdu question are welcome, just to name a few. Right now, all mailings are being done by hand, so it will sometimes take two or three days for postings to be sent out. All you have to do to join is send a message with the subject: VYAKARAN to gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de with the message: subscribe VYAKARAN firstname_lastname, email at address and that's it! Within a few days you should receive confirmation of your subscription along with the week's postings. To send a message to everyone on the list, just send your message to the email-address above with a short message of the contents in the subject line. Within a day or two everyone on the list will get a copy of it. That's all there is to it! As all mailings are now being done by hand, please include the word 'vykaran' in the subject, so that I'll know it's for the list and not for me, as I'm using my own mailbox at the moment. For example: 'vyakaran: tense and aspect', etc. To quit the list at any time, just send a short note to the email address above. Within the next few weeks, I expect that the list will end up with a new address, and will be fully automatic, but until further notice, is it. As I am very new to this sort of thing, I'd greatly appreciate any tips any of you in the list could share with me to make the list operate a little better. However, have no fear, I'm told that within 4 or 5 weeks we should be 'automatic'. If you have any questions, feel free to write to me at the following address: gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de SVAGATAM! John Peterson, Institute for Indology, Kiel, Germany From lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu Thu Jan 25 16:22:24 1996 From: lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu (Lance Nelson) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 08:22:24 -0800 Subject: Sankara Centenary? Message-ID: <161227022387.23782.1233203231564179420.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Reading Govind Chandra Pande's _Life and Thought of Sankaracarya_ (Motilal, 1994), I find a reference to "the celebration of the Twelfth Centenary of Sankara's birth" having occurred recently. Does anyone know when or how extensive this observance was? Or who promoted it? Thanks in advance. Lance --------------------------- Lance Nelson Religious Studies University of San Diego lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu --------------------------- From kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu Thu Jan 25 17:02:09 1996 From: kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu (Kamal Adhikary) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 11:02:09 -0600 Subject: South Asia Seminar at UT Austin Message-ID: <161227022389.23782.8630134271224856069.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear collegues, The following a schedule of South Asian Seminar to be held at the University of Texas at Austin. Although very few of you will be able to attend the seminar, I will be posting all the abstracts of the talks whenever available. University of Texas at Austin Center for Asian Studies 1996 South Asia Seminar Schedule Last updated 1/23/96 February 1 Dr. Wilhelm Halbfass South Asia Regional Studies University of Pennsylvania "Orientalism and Beyond" February 8 Dr. Gail Minault History Department University of Texas at Austin "Violating the Red Fort: Ritual Boundaries of Sovereignty in Late Mogul and Early British India" February 15 Dr. John Hawley Department of Religion Barnard College "Bhakti Studies in an Age of Hindu Nationalism" February 22 Dr. Phyllis Granoff Religious Studies McMaster University "Rama's Bridge: The Poetry of Sacred Space" February 29 Dr. David Shulman Institute for Advance Studies Hebrew University in Jerusalem, Israel "A Science of Mood: Telugu Poetry from Tirupati and Kalahasti" March 7 Dr. Madhav Deshpande Department of Asian Languages and Cultures University of Michigan "Changing Grammars of Changing Texts: Understanding the Transmission of the Vedas" March 21 Dr. Kirin Narayan Anthropology Department University of Wisconsin "The Place of Stories: India, Research, Writing" March 28 Dr. Cynthia Talbot History Department University of Texas at Austin "History, Ethnicity, and Identity: Who is Indian"? April 4 Dr. Rodney Moag Asian Studies University of Texas at Austin "South Asian Diasporic Studies: Issues and Desiderata" April 25 Dr. John Richards Department of History Duke University "Early Modern Indian and World History" Very soon I will be posting two articles by two prominent anthropologists/linguists. These articles will be interesting to some of you. Thanks. kamal _______________ Kamal R. Adhikary, Ph.D. Internet Coordinator, Asian Studies UT, Austin, Texas 78712 Tel:512-475-6034 Email:kamal at asnic.utexas.edu From Bridgman at aol.com Thu Jan 25 16:41:27 1996 From: Bridgman at aol.com (Bridgman at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 11:41:27 -0500 Subject: collyrium stick// Guru Gita vs. 34 Message-ID: <161227022391.23782.3361157592104374957.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Greetings fellow indologists, I have been chanting the Guru Gita for about 15 years and have always wondered what verse # 34 truly means... It translates: Salutations to that Shree Guru, by whom with the collyrium stick of knowledge, the eyes of one who is blinded by the darkness of ignorance, are opened. I have always wondered what a collyrium stick is? Is it something like the philosophers stone? I have heard references to this stick in Jnaneshwars Gita as well. Is there any one out there who can enlighten me in this? Another question, does anyone know any details about the celebrations in Alandi this year in honor of the 700th year since Jnanadev's Mahasamadhi ? Thank you, bridgman at aol.com From vidya at cco.caltech.edu Thu Jan 25 21:15:20 1996 From: vidya at cco.caltech.edu (vidya) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 13:15:20 -0800 Subject: Sankara Centenary? Message-ID: <161227022394.23782.7045408351522865756.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > (Motilal, 1994), I find a reference to "the celebration of the Twelfth > Centenary of Sankara's birth" having occurred recently. Does anyone know This was in 1988, in accordance with the date of 788 AD as Sankara's birth year. Many institutions like the Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, the Advaita Ashrama and the various RK mathas were involved. The Sringeri Sankaracharya organized a tour that started from Kaladi in Kerala and travelled through India reaching Kedar-Badri towards the end of the year. A special postage stamp featuring Sankara's picture was also issued that year. S. Vidyasankar From raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu Fri Jan 26 03:26:24 1996 From: raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (Narayan S. Raja) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 17:26:24 -1000 Subject: collyrium stick// Guru Gita vs. 34 Message-ID: <161227022403.23782.13986099327320168370.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On 25 Jan 96 at 18:51, Bridgman at aol.com wrote: > I have always wondered what a collyrium stick is? Is it something like the > philosophers stone? I have heard references to this stick in Jnaneshwars > Gita as well. Is there any one out there who can enlighten me in this? Nothing mysterious or metaphorical here... Women in India apply a black substance called "mai" (in Tamil) or "kaajal" (in Hindi) around their eye rims as a beauty aid. It is also considered medicinal (though I have heard women occasionally complain that the "mai" might be contaminated because it made their eyes burn). It is also applied around babies' eyes. Lastly, some women also apply it as a black mole-like "beauty mark" on the cheek. The black substance is actually applied around the eyes using a small piece of stick (e.g., a broken broom twig). I have also seen small sticks/rods made of silver for this purpose. On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, Raymond Crawford wrote: > a bit skeptical, but it does work. The dark ring around the eyes reduces the > glare of the sun and I was able to see much more clearly, although I did get > many strange looks from passers-by! They gave you strange looks because a male rarely has kaajal applied, unless he is either (1) a baby, or (2) a "hijraa" (eunuch or hermaphrodite). Regards, Raja. (gosh! even us ordinary folks can occasionally contribute!) From athr at loc.gov Thu Jan 25 22:44:44 1996 From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 17:44:44 -0500 Subject: collyrium stick// Guru Gita vs. 34 Message-ID: <161227022398.23782.14866256290938606183.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The collyrium or other ointments used to anoint the eyes are I believe regarded as medicinal as well as cosmetic. In addition to ordinary anjana there are special ones for medical conditions and also for occult powers (seeing through walls, becoming invisible, etc.). But the everyday ones are regarded as improving the eyesight. Allen W. Thrasher Senior Reference Librarian Southern Asia Section Library of Congress Washington, DC 20540-4744 tel. 202-707-5600 fax 202-707-1724 Email: athr at loc.gov On Thu, 25 Jan 1996 seemc000 at goofy.zdv.Uni-Mainz.de wrote: > On 25 Jan 96 at 18:51, Bridgman at aol.com wrote: > > > > I have always wondered what a collyrium stick is? Is it something like the > > philosophers stone? I have heard references to this stick in Jnaneshwars > > Gita as well. Is there any one out there who can enlighten me in this? > > Well, as far as I know, collyrium is nothing more than a > kind of ointment which is (or rather was?) used by ladies to paint their eyes > for cosmetic reasons, as they often do in kaavya literature. > I suppose the Sanskrit word is anjana? > For example, it occurs in a stanza from Kaalidaasa s Meghaduta, 2nd > part (Uttarameghah.), st. 35, (beginning with "ruddhaapaangaprasaram...") > where "anjanasnehashuunyam" just means something like "without the > moisture from collyrium", refering to the eyes of the yaksha s > beloved. So the collyrium stick should mean the instrument which is > used to apply the ointment. > Considering the effect the colour makes, one can easily imagine that > the eyes of the lady look more "open" this way, which seems to be the > meaning which is also -poetically- refered to in the cited stanza. > > I hope this is of some help? I d be interested to hear if it does > indeed mean anything miraculous. > > Christine Seemann > > > > > From gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de Thu Jan 25 17:07:47 1996 From: gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (gor05) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 18:07:47 +0100 Subject: VYAKARAN Message-ID: <161227022385.23782.15014818284808465630.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The information under South Asian Gopher is a little outdated - we are now 'automatic', although I do add the new members to the list by hand. Anyone caring to join should drop me a note under gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de and I'll be glad to add your name to the list. Right now there are about 140 of us on the list, new members are always welcome. John, Kiel, Germany From dmenon at pacific.net.sg Thu Jan 25 10:50:12 1996 From: dmenon at pacific.net.sg (dmenon at pacific.net.sg) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 18:50:12 +0800 Subject: Sri Boovalaya... Message-ID: <161227022381.23782.17996511726290303381.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello Everyone, I am looking for references on a work called Sri Boovalaya (Siri Boovalaya?). This is actually a Kannada work of a Jaina Munia, written between the 1st and 10th century A.D. Apparently this worl has great implications on languages, as it is supposed to contain in coded form over 700 languages! If anyone has information onthis pls end me an email. Thanks & Regards...Devadas From PANDEY at HUDCE.HARVARD.EDU Thu Jan 25 20:33:02 1996 From: PANDEY at HUDCE.HARVARD.EDU (Rita Vimal-Pandey) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 20:33:02 +0000 Subject: VYAKARAN Message-ID: <161227022393.23782.8032010930182574562.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 05:49 PM 1/25/96 GMT, you wrote: >The information under South Asian Gopher is a little outdated - we are now >'automatic', although I do add the new members to the list by hand. >Anyone caring to join should drop me a note under > gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de > >and I'll be glad to add your name to the list. Right now there are about 140 >of us on the list, new members are always welcome. >John, Kiel, Germany > > John, Please add me to the VYAKARAN mailing list Thanks Rita From fujitayo at hatelecom.or.jp Thu Jan 25 11:50:44 1996 From: fujitayo at hatelecom.or.jp (Fujita Yoshimichi) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 20:50:44 +0900 Subject: review indology Message-ID: <161227022383.23782.16913460659627460690.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hallow. I am a lecturer of Ryukoku University(Kyoto,Japan),measuring in Indian Buddism. I am very interested in your Web site. So please send me a list of members of INDOLOGY. Thank you. e-mail address: fujitayo at hatelecom.or.jp. From seemc000 at goofy.zdv.Uni-Mainz.de Thu Jan 25 21:57:39 1996 From: seemc000 at goofy.zdv.Uni-Mainz.de (seemc000 at goofy.zdv.Uni-Mainz.de) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 22:57:39 +0100 Subject: collyrium stick// Guru Gita vs. 34 Message-ID: <161227022396.23782.13954040976193398156.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On 25 Jan 96 at 18:51, Bridgman at aol.com wrote: > I have always wondered what a collyrium stick is? Is it something like the > philosophers stone? I have heard references to this stick in Jnaneshwars > Gita as well. Is there any one out there who can enlighten me in this? Well, as far as I know, collyrium is nothing more than a kind of ointment which is (or rather was?) used by ladies to paint their eyes for cosmetic reasons, as they often do in kaavya literature. I suppose the Sanskrit word is anjana? For example, it occurs in a stanza from Kaalidaasa s Meghaduta, 2nd part (Uttarameghah.), st. 35, (beginning with "ruddhaapaangaprasaram...") where "anjanasnehashuunyam" just means something like "without the moisture from collyrium", refering to the eyes of the yaksha s beloved. So the collyrium stick should mean the instrument which is used to apply the ointment. Considering the effect the colour makes, one can easily imagine that the eyes of the lady look more "open" this way, which seems to be the meaning which is also -poetically- refered to in the cited stanza. I hope this is of some help? I d be interested to hear if it does indeed mean anything miraculous. Christine Seemann From jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Fri Jan 26 06:29:09 1996 From: jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (John Gardner) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 00:29:09 -0600 Subject: collyrium stick// Guru Gita vs. 34 Message-ID: <161227022405.23782.14839919497270967856.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> system has gottent disconnected mid-typing, so the syntax and format is quite erratic. it seems the spirituaal level of protection might be somehow referred to in the passage noted. the stick is less omonly used today. some say the color around the eye is to prevent envy. raising interesting questions re. the last entry . . . follows: a report from gujarat: when placed on children's eyes, western doctors advised south asian mothers not to do it. the idea, in gujarati, is najar ni lag- meaning soemthing like people not catching sight of it- it being the person. that person wearing it seeks to ward of evil eye of onlooker who may find them interesting. when put on child, done casually by mothers' fingers- to ward off evil eye so child won't get sick. when done the stic From dasa at msn.com Fri Jan 26 00:50:09 1996 From: dasa at msn.com (Raymond Crawford) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 00:50:09 +0000 Subject: collyrium stick// Guru Gita vs. 34 Message-ID: <161227022400.23782.17930479964844797907.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I don't know if this is of any help, but.......... When I lived in U.P. a doctor advised me to use *kagal* around my eyes when out in the sun. Knowing that it was used by women for cosmetic purposes I was a bit skeptical, but it does work. The dark ring around the eyes reduces the glare of the sun and I was able to see much more clearly, although I did get many strange looks from passers-by! It was applied using a stick coated with the black substance. Regards R ---------- On 25 Jan 96 at 18:51, Bridgman at aol.com wrote: > I have always wondered what a collyrium stick is? Is it something like the > philosophers stone? I have heard references to this stick in Jnaneshwars > Gita as well. Is there any one out there who can enlighten me in this? > From unknown at example.com Fri Jan 26 14:24:10 1996 From: unknown at example.com (unknown at example.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 08:24:10 -0600 Subject: Collyrium, Guru Gita verse Message-ID: <161227022407.23782.10530188221313729228.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Re: Collyrium Stick & Guru Gita verse 34 ****************************************** I believe the verse is an analogy. In Tamil Nadu/ South India, when sthapatis make idols of Hindu Gods from stone or bronze, they are considered "lifeless" and not fit for worship. On the Kumbabishekam day, with chanting of mantras, the sthapathis open the eyes of idols using collyrium stick, injecting life of a particular mUrthi into that pratimai. In the Guru Gita verse, the guru is like the sthapati, collyrium is knowledge, the blind idol is the student before his contact with the guru. May be art historians here like Dr. M. Rabe can shed more light. A recent book is out there. I have not seen it yet. Jan Brouwer, The makers of the world: caste, craft and mind of South Indian artisans. Oxford UP, 1995. Regards, N. Ganesan nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov >From indology-request at liverpool.ac.uk Thu Jan 25 13:00:40 1996 >Return-Path: >From: Bridgman at aol.com >Subject: collyrium stick// Guru Gita vs. 34 > >Greetings fellow indologists, >I have been chanting the Guru Gita for about 15 years and have always >wondered what verse # 34 truly means... > >It translates: Salutations to that Shree Guru, by whom with the collyrium >stick of knowledge, the eyes of one who is blinded by the darkness of >ignorance, are opened. > >I have always wondered what a collyrium stick is? Is it something like the >philosophers stone? I have heard references to this stick in Jnaneshwars >Gita as well. Is there any one out there who can enlighten me in this? > >Another question, does anyone know any details about the celebrations in >Alandi this year in honor of the 700th year since Jnanadev's Mahasamadhi ? > >Thank you, > >bridgman at aol.com > From Bridgman at aol.com Fri Jan 26 17:52:04 1996 From: Bridgman at aol.com (Bridgman at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 12:52:04 -0500 Subject: collyrium stick// Guru Gita vs. 34 Message-ID: <161227022418.23782.10204257966829778348.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Many Thanks Raja and everyone else, So far I have recieved 9 responses. It's amazing that I didn't realize this years ago, having been to India a number of times, and even using Kajjal a couple of times. Often in contemplation of a collyrium stick I imagined it to be a light saber, such as the one Luke Skywalker used to defeat Darth Vader ! Any how , Thanks again, Just as the Guru removes Ajnaana with The Jnaana-a`njana shalaakaya your responses have " opened" my eyes to a deeper understanding of this sacred text. bridgman at aol.com From prasg at informix.com Fri Jan 26 21:12:12 1996 From: prasg at informix.com (prasg at informix.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 13:12:12 -0800 Subject: Sanskrit Related Announcement Message-ID: <161227022420.23782.12957541994381775207.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sanskrit Documents 1/26/96 namaskaar, We are very glad to present an anonymous ftp or WWW site having major collection of Sanskrit related documents. The site is accessible through WWW with URL ftp://jaguar.cs.utah.edu/private/sanskrit/sanskrit.html The files can also be transferred with anonymous ftp as ftp jaguar.cs.utah.edu with cd private/sanskrit directly. A subset of these files is also available at http://chandra.cs.brown.edu/ which is the major site for ITRANS/hindi/marathi songs. It has been managed very efficiently by Anurag Shankar. The files on both the sites are available in English transliteration and Devanagari output format. These documents were prepared by many individuals, most of them being participants in the on-line Sanskrit group mailing list/sanskrit-digest (information to get the digest is added in the end of this message). We appreciate their interest and hope that they will have opportunity to be equally enthusiastic in the future. The Devanagari files are generated using ITRANS/TeX/LaTeX/dvips collection of software available as freeware. We particularly encourage you to print/read the Sanskrit projects file. We need volunteers for many of the 50+ projects mentioned. Please take initiatives and participate in this group effort. Other major activities planned for learning/speaking Sanskrit, both in India and abroad, are linked in Sanskrit Bharati site: http://reality.sgi.com/employees/atul/sanskrit/sanskrit.html We realize that anything we do will be a tiny amount compared to the grand scale of Sanskrit literature. We need guidance from you in this effort! Here is a sampling of what is available at the above site. Links to appropriate sites are included. Sanskrit documents Files for learning Sanskrit Tools for preparing Sanskrit documents English documents on Hinduism and Sanskrit Current documents under preparation Documents that need to be encoded(a wish list) Sanskrit projects currently underway (volunteers needed) Sanskrit Bharati homepage Sanskrit dictionary efforts Subhashhita collection Sanskrit grammar, Sanskrit Tutorials Information on the monthly Sanskrit magazine sambhaashhaNa sandeshaH Sanskrit News from India Interface for online transliteration to Devanagari conversion Preferred transliteration scheme (ITRANS) Common errors and tips on correct transliteration Survey for software and hardware for Devanagari printing Sanskrit Usenet and Group mailing list/digest information Other useful information and sites(Ramayana, Mahabharata, Gita, Indology, Vedanta, Spirituality, Yoga, Tantra, Sampradaya-s etc.) This site for the documents is in preparation, so some of the work is on-going. Please provide your suggestions. To keep this message short, we have not listed the entire contents (over 100 documents ) above. You may want to download the README.sanskrit file for a complete list. You are welcome to link your homepage to this one, or download the files. Please feel free to mirror this site if you want, in fact, we would be glad if anyone can offer any additional WWW space to mirror this site. Around 25Mbytes of disk space is required at a minimum, while more space is always useful. A tar file(15Mb+) is available upon request for easy transfer. Contact avinash at acm.org or atul at yamuna.asd.sgi.com for the file. For corrections in the homepage links contact mgiridhar at ucdavis.edu. If you need help on accessing the files or want to get general information of the sanskrit-digest/list, please contact Sai Ram Susarala at sai at cs.utah.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This post has been sent by a volunteer, and mention of `we' or `us' is used as a general reference, no personal promotion is intended. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------- Sanskrit Digest information ----------------- To SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE from Sanskrit list: Send a message to "majordomo at cs.utah.edu" with the line containing: "subscribe sanskrit-digest " to SUBscribe, "unsubscribe sanskrit-digest " to UNsubscribe, and "help" to get help in the message body. ------------------- Indology homepage --------------------------- Indology WWW page: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- -------- * Sanskrit Usenet group humanities.language.sanskrit *---- Please access the humanities.language.sanskrit through usenet. For those who do not get usenet newsgroups use the URL gopher://osiris.wu-wien.ac.at:7119/1humanities.language.sanskrit This method can be used to access any usenet newsgoups. ----------------------------------------------------------------- From dinesh at cs.newhaven.edu Fri Jan 26 18:17:00 1996 From: dinesh at cs.newhaven.edu (dinesh at cs.newhaven.edu) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 13:17:00 -0500 Subject: Info wanted on Sanskrit Jobs Message-ID: <161227022415.23782.12327263728418097707.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi friends! I am looking for some information on Job Opportunities for Sanskrit scholors in U.S.A. My brother is a Post Graduate Scholor in Sanskrit and presently working in India. He is looking for some opportunities here in U.S.A. If you an___ have any information regarding this please send the info to my e-mail address dinesh at cs.newhaven.edu or please call me at 816-966-5864 wor 913-341-0940 home. Your help in this regard is appreciated. Thanks again for your help. venkat Note: My brother has Masters in Oriental Language (Sanskrit) and Masters in i.e., M.A. in Sanskrit and has a very good command, expirience . Thanks for your time. venkat From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Fri Jan 26 15:29:25 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 15:29:25 +0000 Subject: collyrium stick// Guru Gita vs. 34 Message-ID: <161227022409.23782.18278720715494384273.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Bridgman at aol.com said: > It translates: Salutations to that Shree Guru, by whom with the collyrium > stick of knowledge, the eyes of one who is blinded by the darkness of > ignorance, are opened. The normal name for an eye-salve in Sanskrit medicine is a~njana, and it is often translated as "collyrium". (Another Skt. term is kajjala.) A~njana is discussed extensively in the Sanskrit medical literature. There are several kinds of a~njana, and several forms of eye-disease for which it is recommended. In the A.s.taa"ngah.rdayasa.mhitaa (Ah., Su.23.10), three kinds of a~njana are described, and one of them is explicitly characterized as "d.r.s.tiprasaadana", i.e., it makes your vision clear. I am sure this is the metaphor the Gurugita is using. "Salutations to that Shree Guru, who uses the Optrex of spiritual knowledge to clear the vision someone who is blind ignorant." The Ah. goes on (verses 12, 13) to describe the metal stick, ten a"ngulas long, with which the a~njana is applied. If the aim is to clear the vision (as opposed to scarification or soothing), the application stick should be made of silver or gold. Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk, Wellcome Institute, 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE. FAX: +44 171 611 8545 email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html From girish at sisna.com Fri Jan 26 22:34:05 1996 From: girish at sisna.com (girish at sisna.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 15:34:05 -0700 Subject: Sanskrit for southeast Message-ID: <161227022422.23782.17961630254538694649.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> "aagneya" ("associated with agni") in Sanskrit is "southeast". Does someone know if by some optional internal sandhi it can also be "aaj~neya"? There is an instance where the meaning of "southeast" would seem to make sense for "aaj~neya" but I can not find it in my dictionaries. ----------------------------------------------------------- Girish Sharma San Diego, CA girish at sisna.com From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk Fri Jan 26 17:13:00 1996 From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 17:13:00 +0000 Subject: kaajala Message-ID: <161227022411.23782.8167439528428756207.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, I'm forwarding this on behalf of someone who is not on this list. Any response will be appreciated. Thanks. Bye, Girish ----------------------- cut and post it to indology ------------------- Forwarded message: From: "Kulkarni, Neel" Subject: Re: kaajal Dear Friends, I received forward of discussion on kaajal from indology posting. The usage of the term for poems, and for explaining the philosophy is well taken. BUT, The fact is that the kaajala( graphite powder=coal) as well as collyrium are very harmful for human eyes. It is harmful is demonstrated by the fact that as soon as it is put in the eyes, the eye nerves sense it, and secretion of eye water takes place to hold it in solution and to remove it thereafter. The same is true of Camphor or any eye cosmetic. This does not serve any healthful purpose. If the sun glare is too much, it is better to use a hat with an eye cover, or better still umbrella. The health of the eyes depend on the proper nutrition of cells which make up the eye. Most of this nutrition comes from the food, and some from the sunshine which should enter the eyes. Food of good quality, if digested with good efficiency results if good quality blood, which then if the circulation is good, travels to the eyes and nurishes the cells. Goggles/Sun glasses should not be used unless the heat is too much or you have to watch a hot source for a prolonged time. Also, the invention of eyeglasses, 'except for the cases of mechanically damaged eyes or born mechanical defects of eyes', has been proven to be unscientific. The theory of eye glasses is entirely false and it is proved by the fact that a person who uses eyeglasses never comes out of their usage (as the eye doctor tells him on the initial visit) and the power of his/her lense generally increases showing the increase in the weakness of eyes. Also, carrot juice, though providing one nutriment called Vitamin A necessary for the health of eyes, does not cure eye problems, as is commonly understood. The things which should ever enter eyes are pure water, pure air, and moderate sunlight. I do not receive indology group postings, so please send your opinions to kulkarnn at nasd.com . Regards, Neel Kulkarni From AmitaSarin at aol.com Sat Jan 27 01:22:51 1996 From: AmitaSarin at aol.com (AmitaSarin at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 20:22:51 -0500 Subject: Ramayana's Uttarkand Message-ID: <161227022424.23782.8254829760480124308.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Can anyone recommend a good analysis/commentary (article or book) on the Uttarkand of the Valmiki Ramayana? Also some reading on this question-answer style of literature. Thanks. Amita Sarin amitasarin at aol.com From y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu Sat Jan 27 02:54:16 1996 From: y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu (y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 20:54:16 -0600 Subject: Ramayana's Uttarkand Message-ID: <161227022426.23782.33783063583247586.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In Philip Lutgendorf's "The Life of a Text" there is an interesting discussion of the Uttarkand and its relationship to 'The Politics of Raama Raaja, (pages 371-374). Yvette C. Rosser ---+-}---+-}--+-<@ ----+-}---+-}---+-<@ ----+-}---+-}---+-<@ Generate Ideas and Events to Promote Peace and Justice-- in YOUR OWN Community--Create & Celebrate: The First International -<@>- DAY WITHOUT VIOLENCE -<@>- - APRIL 4, 1996 - http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~iwork/peacetxt.htm @>---+-{---+-{--+--- The Spirit of Democracy is that Spirit which is not too sure it is always Right. --Justice Learned Hand <@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>- "When a pickpocket looks at a saint, all he can see are his pockets. --Neem Karoli Baba <@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>-<@>- From kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp Fri Jan 26 16:48:51 1996 From: kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (Birgit Kellner) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 01:48:51 +0900 Subject: collyrium stick// Guru Gita vs. 34 Message-ID: <161227022413.23782.6115965915295933341.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 15:45 26/01/96 GMT, you wrote: >The normal name for an eye-salve in Sanskrit medicine is a~njana, and it >is often translated as "collyrium". (Another Skt. term is kajjala.) > >A~njana is discussed extensively in the Sanskrit medical literature. >There are several kinds of a~njana, and several forms of eye-disease for >which it is recommended. I use the opportunity to jump on the trail - I recently came across the expression _a~njanavi'ses.a_ in the following context: asti ca niraalokasyaapi ruupasya dar'sana* kai'scit | tenaapi vaa sam.bhaavyam a~jjanavi'ses.aadineti sattocchede tu niyama evety ados.ah. | (J~naana'sriimitra, Anupalabdhirahasya, in J~naana'sriimitranibandhaavali, ed. Anantalal Thakur 1987, p. 187, l.24f.) The argument supposedly runs as follows: In the preceding paragraph, J. gave a definition of a certain _niyama_, equalling one type of incompatibility (virodha):. niyama's ca sattaabaadhane eva 'bhaava = "the restriction obtains that (one object) is only absent when (its) existence is obstructed (by that of another object)". An opponent questions its validity, by pointing out to several exceptions. J. answers that the definition was not given with reference to a particular cognizing subject, but in general. Thus, he says: "There are some who can see colour even without light [this is a reference to Dharmakiirti's Pramaan.avini'scaya, chapter I]. Or else, one has to assume even this/this (perception?colour?), too, as (having?) _a~njanavi'ses.a_ etc." Is there any usage of _a~njana_ in medical literature which could make sense in this context? Help, as usual, would be greatly appreciated, From michal16 at netquandry.net Sat Jan 27 15:45:15 1996 From: michal16 at netquandry.net (michal16 at netquandry.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 10:45:15 -0500 Subject: FAQ 16 / *STOP*......... before you buy another over-priced USA magazine at the store or by subscription! GET A WHOLE YEAR FREE! Message-ID: <161227022434.23782.1425439822478581406.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> -----> NOTE: Please first read my note which appears below the "Request for more info Form." 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For more advanced computer users: attached text file ~525K - you must know how to download an attached text file and then be able to open it with your word processor. If in doubt, don't ask for this version. This isn't for internet *newbies.* Better to order option 1 and spend a few minutes pasting them into one whole text document with your word processor, than to waste hours trying to figure how to deal with this option. 3. For more advanced Macintosh computer users: compressed attached text file, created with a Stuffit(tm) self-extracting archive (.sea), ~133K. Can be decompressed by any Macintosh computer user; no special expansion software or knowledge of Stuffit (tm) needed. You just double-click on the file icon and it automatically expands (unstuffs). This is for more advanced mac computer users only, as you still have to know how to deal with an attached file. It will cut your download time by 75%. Expands out to the same ~525K file in option #2. See option #2 for more info on what you will need to be able to do. 4. For expert computer users: compressed attached text file, created with Stuffit(tm), ~114K. Can be decompressed by any computer user who has expansion software to decompress (expand) Stuffit(tm) (.sit) files. This is for more advanced computer users only and will cut your download time by 78%. Expands out to the same ~525K file in option #2. See option #2 for more info on what you will need to be able to do. Hi fellow 'netters, My name is Michal Hirschberger and I recently started using a magazine subscription club in the USA that has a FREE 1 yr. magazine subscription deal with your first paid order- and I have been very pleased with them. They have over 1,500 different USA titles that they can ship to any country on a subscription basis. As for computer magazines from the USA, they more of a selection than I ever knew even existed. They have magazines for most every area of interest in their list of 1,500 titles. 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They then send you email that outlines how his club works and the list of free choices that you can choose from, as well as the entire list of what he sells; and then they will give you a quick (3-5 minute) friendly, no-pressure no-obligation call to explain everything to you personally and answer all your questions. Once you get in, you'll love them. I do. Sincerely, Michal Hirschberger ps. please forward a copy of this message to all your friends on the net who you think might be interested in it! It is a great deal! If you join and then they join after you, you will earn a free 1 yr. subscription for each new person you get to join after you join! If you exceed 25 referrals, they let you use them to give away as gifts, for Christmas, Chanukah or any other occasion. Please be kind enough to mention my name when you join. I will then get a free magazine for a year for referring you. Thank you. From garzilli at shore.net Sat Jan 27 16:03:06 1996 From: garzilli at shore.net (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 11:03:06 -0500 Subject: JSAWS Vol. 2, No. 2 - January 1996 - ISSN 1085-7478 Message-ID: <161227022429.23782.14384661798048818073.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> We are very pleased to announce that the *JOURNAL OF SOUTH ASIA WOMEN STUDIES*, VOL. 2, NO. 1 (JANUARY 26, 1996) -- ISSN 1085-7478 has just been distributed to our members via email (jswas at shore.net). It will be published in our WWW pages (http://www.shore.net/~india/jsaws/) in a few days. CONTENTS: - Note from the Editor - How to submit a contribution? - Copyright Notice - News - The Kyoto-Harvard Transcription - Paper: *StrIdhana: To Have and To Have Not*, by Enrica Garzilli - Directory Email Book (DEB) * * * * * STRIDHANA: TO HAVE AND TO HAVE NOT by Enrica Garzilli Abstract: The paper is a survey and an analysis of Hindu women's rights to property (strIdhana) in India. The first part deals with the connection between Indian dowry and property. In fact, dowry has been for centuries the only property of Hindu women. The second part is a diachronical study of the law according to the traditional Hindu law-books, the dharmashastras. The interdependence between dowry, considered for centuries as a substitute for inheritance, and inheritance itself has also been investigated. The most authoritative Indian law-books from the Manavadharmashastra (2nd-3rd A.D.) until the Hindu Succession Act of 1956, and some major commentaries and digests on them, have been considered. The third part of the study focuses on the legal fracture between the concepts of property and strIdhana under the British rule. The English misinterpretation of the traditional law allowed women to have full property rights only with certain restrictions and only when still alive. The third and fourth parts of the paper analyze the Hindu Women's Rights to Property Act (1937) and the Hindu Succession Act (1956). In the last part there is an attempt to answer a few questions that come from the study. * * * * * If you want to subscribe to the JSAWS mailto: jsaws at shore.net with the subject and/or the body: subscribe Thank you. Enjoy the reading! Dott. Enrica Garzilli Harvard Law School Editor-in-Chief From mail07464 at pop.net Sun Jan 28 00:21:24 1996 From: mail07464 at pop.net (mail07464 at pop.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 16:21:24 -0800 Subject: Field trip to India: HELP! Message-ID: <161227022432.23782.2159139156791358124.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I will be going to India in a month or so to collect some Sanskrit manuscripts, and I need to take a camera with me. Could someone kindly explain to me what would be the advantage of taking a digital camera? Could you please tell me in detail what kind of materials I need to take with me? If a non-digital camera is better, what type of camera and film? If digital, again, what kind? If I take a digital camera, can I use it with a laptop Mac? What type of battery-powered Mac would be the best? How much RAM, what size of hard drive? What type of backup/storage device? I'd sincerely appreciate it immensely if you could kindly take the time to answer my questions. I'm really in need of advice here. I'm drowning in an ocean of ignorance. Please help! With best wishes, Beatrice From pp001460 at interramp.com Sun Jan 28 03:43:10 1996 From: pp001460 at interramp.com (pp001460 at interramp.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 19:43:10 -0800 Subject: Field trip to India: HELP! Message-ID: <161227022436.23782.8055595580635005428.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------------Original Message--------------- I will be going to India in a month or so to collect some Sanskrit manuscripts, and I need to take a camera with me. Could someone kindly explain to me what would be the advantage of taking a digital camera? Could you please tell me in detail what kind of materials I need to take with me? If a non-digital camera is better, what type of camera and film? If digital, again, what kind? If I take a digital camera, can I use it with a laptop Mac? What type of battery-powered Mac would be the best? How much RAM, what size of hard drive? What type of backup/storage device? I'd sincerely appreciate it immensely if you could kindly take the time to answer my questions. I'm really in need of advice here. I'm drowning in an ocean of ignorance. Please help! With best wishes, Beatrice ----------End of Original Message---------- Hello Beatrice, It was not clear to me, whether it is the manuscripts you intended to photograph. What you intend to photograph might effect the best choice of equipment. If you would like to discuss this with me in more detail, please send email to me at my address: pp001460 at interramp.com You might also profit from posting this question to some of the usenet groups under the rec.photography hierarchy. My general experience of photography in India is as follows: I don't know too much about digital cameras. However the advice given to me by my local camera expert before I went, was that the my Nikon manual FM2 was probably about the best possible choice I could make for difficult climatic conditions, heat, dust, dampness, etc. In general the principle was the less delicate electronics one used the better. We were not discussing digtial cameras at all, however. A second camera body is also said to be advisable if possible. I took a Nikon FM2, several lenses and 200 speed color film, which I used indoors and out. The camera served me very well. Most of the prints were good to very good. some were under exposed. I did wish I had taken some higher speed film for low light conditions without flash, I carried the film roles back in a waist pack and had them developed in the U.S. It is usually possible to have the photos scanned and digitized in that way once they are printed. In general I understand from my friends more experienced in digital equipment that the quality of non-difital photos is still superior to digital. Of course the usefulness of one or another depends upon your purposes in part. If you intend to photograph manuscripts other equipment, such as a tripod would be necessay, as would careful planning of lighting and lens length. Again, I invite further questions to my email address. Best Wishes, Nancy From y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu Sun Jan 28 03:03:07 1996 From: y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu (y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 21:03:07 -0600 Subject: Field trip to India: HELP! Message-ID: <161227022440.23782.3646791946532343791.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Beatrice, Last spring H-ASIA had quite a long thread discussing this very topic. You can access their archives. If this type of internet jargon is difficult to understand, perhaps Frank Conlon can help you. Nonetheless, there is a copious amount of info concerning the very topic about which you inquired in the H-ASIA Fileserver. ************** Below is an extract from the Welcome letter that is sent out when a subscription is opened. Section 10 explains how to obtain the LOG files from the listserv at msu.edu Hope this helps. WELCOME TO THE H-ASIA DISCUSSION LIST (1.1) Jan. 30, 1995 The Asian Studies List of H-NET To send material for posting on H-ASIA, post it to: H-ASIA at msu.edu 10. H-ASIA Fileserver The H-ASIA Fileserver is on line and houses: Logs of the weekly file of messages. In future it may also house book reviews, teaching materials, descriptions of tools, techniques, and computer software and hardware, and other materials of interest to scholars of Asia. Note: The H-Asia fileserv is located at both msu.edu and uicvm.uic.edu To obtain a list of available documents, send a note to Listserv at uicvm.uic.edu or listserv at msu.edu with the following command: Index H-ASIA To obtain a specific document, send Listserv the command GET filename filetype Thus, to obtain this document (entitled "H-ASIA Welcome") from the fileserver, send a note to Listserv with the command GET H-ASIA Welcome Contributions to the archive are welcome, and should be sent as files to H-ASIA at uicvm.uic.edu or listserv at msu.edu Any subscriber may obtain a list of the items in the H-ASIA Fileserver by sending this message to Listserv at uicvm.uic.edu or listserv at msu.edu INDEX H-ASIA All H-ASIA messages are stored in weekly logs. The Log for April 1994, week 4 is H-ASIA LOG9404D and the Log for May, 1994, Week 1 is H-ASIA LOG9405A. Subscribers wishing to receive a log or any other fileserver document should send a message to: Listserv at uicvm.uic.uicvm or listserv at msu.edu GET H-ASIA filename [eg GET H-ASIA LOG9404D] HOW TO SEARCH the H-ASIA logs for key words YYYY and ZZZZZ (You may limit the search to any dates you want, for example, 6 May to 29 Aug 1994. send this form below to LISTSERV at uicvm.uic.edu or LISTSERV at msu.edu ----do not send this line--- //ListSrch JOB Echo=no Database Search DD=Rules //Rules DD * Search YYYY and ZZZZZ in H-ASIA from 6 May 94 to 29 Aug 94 index date.8 sender.30 subject.40 print /* // EOJ From gthursby at religion.ufl.edu Sun Jan 28 02:53:52 1996 From: gthursby at religion.ufl.edu (Gene Thursby) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 21:53:52 -0500 Subject: Field trip to India: HELP! Message-ID: <161227022438.23782.9455910597320874379.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> With regard to old-fashioned, silver-based photography, my experience in India (from time to time since 1968) matches most of what was reported by Nancy {pp001460 at interramp.com} in response to the call for HELP! from Beatrice. Part of the exchange is repeated below. I've used the least-costly 33mm SLR Nikon equipment (2 Nikkormat camera bodies, 1 manual and 1 semi-automatic) and a variety of Nikon lenses -- including a quite good macro lens that gives very close focus. At times I've used a release cable and portable copy stand. Although the stand is inconvenient to carry, it assures camera stability in low light when copying items that cannot be permitted to be taken into bright light. For very slow exposures, the reflecting mirror in the SLR camera can be closed after correct focus and exposure is established. That further reduces vibration during exposure of the film at very slow speeds. I rarely use color print film but have appreciated the stability of Kodachrome 25 slide film -- which is very slow and best in sunlight. In major cities, when well advised, one can find very good photo developing that will match professional quality nearly anywhere. This is all the more remarkable because the quality and quantity of available water, chemical, and paper is uneven to say the least. However, one MUST be well advised about where to have film developed and printed. The advantage of local printing, of course, is to ensure that one has got results that repay everyone's effort, time, and travel. Digital, rather than traditional silver-based photography, would free one from dependence on local developing/printing professionals, or else from a slightly worrisome wait until one is back at home). Finally, have you made arrangements in advance for permissions -- to see the documents, to move them, to photograph or otherwise copy them? If not, begin at once to collect letters that will attest to your bona fides, your purpose, etc. Unless you (or your senior colleagues) are well connected with the people who are responsible for the care of the MSS or other materials, it is possible that you may have a long wait and may need to go through many steps to achieve what you want -- or could fail to gain access. After all, in most instances, the owners, caretakers, etc., are extending a significant courtesy when they allow foreigners to copy local materials of interest. Increasingly, the question is put explicitly: "what are foreigners doing to enhance the local culture on which their professional success depends?" Please forgive the uninvited moralizing. Gene Thursby, University of Florida > ---------------Original Message--------------- > I will be going to India in a month or so to collect some Sanskrit > manuscripts, and I need to take a camera with me. Could someone kindly > explain to me what would be the advantage of taking a digital camera? > Could you please tell me in detail what kind of materials I need to take > with me? If a non-digital camera is better, what type of camera and film? > ----------End of Original Message---------- > > Hello Beatrice, > It was not clear to me, whether it is the manuscripts you intended to photograph. > What you intend to photograph might effect the best choice of equipment. > > My general experience of photography in India is as follows: > I don't know too much about digital cameras. However the advice given > to me by my local camera expert before I went, was that the my Nikon > manual FM2 was probably about the best possible choice I could make for > difficult climatic conditions, heat, dust, dampness, etc. In general the principle > was the less delicate electronics one used the better. We were not discussing > digtial cameras at all, however. > > A second camera body is also said to be advisable if possible. > I took a Nikon FM2, several lenses and 200 speed color film, which I used > indoors and out. > > The camera served me very well. Most of the prints were good to > very good. some were under exposed. > > I did wish I had taken some higher speed film for low light conditions > without flash, I carried the film roles back in a waist pack and had them developed in > the U.S. It is usually possible to have the photos scanned and digitized in that way > once they are printed. In general I understand from my friends more experienced in > digital equipment that the quality of non-difital photos is still superior to digital. > Of course the usefulness of one or another depends upon your purposes in part. > > If you intend to photograph manuscripts other equipment, such as a tripod would > be necessay, as would careful planning of lighting and lens length. Again, I invite > further questions to my email address. > > Best Wishes, > Nancy From mail07464 at pop.net Sun Jan 28 15:28:39 1996 From: mail07464 at pop.net (mail07464 at pop.net) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 96 07:28:39 -0800 Subject: Manuscript photography in India Message-ID: <161227022445.23782.17990201617946183530.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Many thanks to whomever posted a noted referring to the H-Asia archives. Unfortunately I mishandled that text and ended up losing it, but I think I know how to request files from H-Asia. Thank you very much. Beatrice From mail07464 at pop.net Sun Jan 28 15:29:03 1996 From: mail07464 at pop.net (mail07464 at pop.net) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 96 07:29:03 -0800 Subject: Field trip to India Message-ID: <161227022448.23782.12078566734829072404.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you very much for the enlightening comments. Another point to consider is that once you get yourself a digital camera you get to keept it for future work, but how soon would it become obsolete? From conlon at u.washington.edu Sun Jan 28 16:12:03 1996 From: conlon at u.washington.edu (Frank Conlon) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 96 08:12:03 -0800 Subject: Manuscript photography in India Message-ID: <161227022451.23782.14705583065232528756.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To Indology list colleagues: Since I had pulled together the thread for Beatrice Reusch, it occurred that the information contained therein might be of utility to others who were not members of H-ASIA back in May, 1995. Frank Conlon Co-editor of H-ASIA ----------------------------------------- >From conlon at u.washington.edu Sun Jan 28 08:09:28 1996 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 08:08:42 -0800 (PST) From: Frank Conlon To: Frank Conlon Subject: H-ASIA THREAD: Photographing documents The following posts appeared on the H-ASIA networks during May 1995: Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 16:14:14 -0700 From: Frank Conlon Reply to: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA Subject: H-ASIA: Query on photographic copies of manuscripts H-ASIA May 4, 1995 Query on photographic copies of manuscripts *********************************************************************** From: Irene Joshi I wonder if anyone on H-ASIA could provide a useful answer to the accompanying query recently received. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 08:38:36 -0500 From: ali00law at UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list IMAGELIB Subject: Photographing? text A professor here is traveling to India this summer and needs to "record" some images of ancient Sanskrit text to bring back to the University to translate. He needs to be able to enlarge this images to a readable size, yet maintain a "clearness" of image so that the characters are discernable. Preferably, he would transfer the images to a computer format so that he could translate them on screen. Does anyone have any experience with this type of project? We need to suggest necessary equipment, so that he can determine how it will fit into his grant money. Best case scenario, is it possible to purchase some type of lens for a standard 35mm camera to shoot clear images of the text and make either prints or slides, or PhotoCD that are readable? (We were thinking low budget here) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Lisa ~ Lisa Weedman ali00law at email.uncc.edu ~ Media Services/Graphics ~ The University of North Carolina at Charlotte ===================================================================== Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 17:32:50 -0700 From: Frank Conlon Reply to: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA Subject: H-ASIA: Query on photographic copies of manuscripts H-ASIA May 4, 1995 Response to query on photographic copies of manuscripts ********************************************************************** From: Lance Brennan With reference to the query just posted on research photography of manuscripts and documents: My experience of taking microfilm of manuscripts and newspapers in India suggests that an ordinary 35mm SLR camera with its usual lens is the most appropriate instrument. The film should be normal black and white. It is important to have a cable release to prevent movement of the camera, and most important is to have a tripod or some other stand to hold the camera steady. I have generally ended up tying my tripod to a chair, but there were splendid tripods with an adjustable overhanging fixture in London in 1992. Where the material is indoors you need artificial light - a couple of desk lamps purchased in India with 100 watt globes is more than ample. Outside, the light should be reasonable through most Indian seasons. In terms of technique, the crucial elements are 1. Getting the light even over the page or object, and checking this with the light meter of the camera at each shot (especially outside). This is what makes the process rather slow. 2. Keeping the camera steady. 3. Keeping a record on the film where possible - and in a diary. If the light is poor you can use slower film (I have used microfilm specially cut up for the camera cassettes) but more recent experience suggests that normal film will give satisfactory images if the camera is rock steady, and will not be as sensitive to shifts/ variations in light. The camera I used in Mauritius in 1992 to film hand written shipping registers was a Pentax KF1000: hardly a sophisticated instrument. I was able to buy extra black and white film in Mauritius, and have it developed there. If you need any more information about the speed of the film - which I cannot remember off hand - please let me know. Lance Brennan Flinders University of South Australia HYLB at sigma.sss.flinders.edu.au ================================================================= To post to H-ASIA send your message to H-ASIA at msu.edu To temporarily interrupt your H-ASIA service for holidays send a posting to with the message: SET H-ASIA NOMAIL When you return and wish to resume H-ASIA service send a similar posting with message: SET H-ASIA MAIL Private questions should go either to: conlon at u.washington.edu or Leibo at ALBNYVMS.bitnet >From conlon at u.washington.edu Sun Jan 28 07:59:26 1996 ================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 10:58:37 -0700 From: Frank Conlon Reply to: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA Subject: H-ASIA Re Query on photographic copies of manuscripts (6) H-ASIA May 5, 1995 Responses to query on photographic copies of manuscripts (6) ***************************************************************** 1.) From: Frederick M Asher Sure, art historians do this sort of thing all the time. A 35mm camera with a macro lens allows focusing down close enough to get the mss. pages clearly in focus. To stabilize the camera, it's best to use a tripod; if the person simply takes the stem of the tripod--that is, the central shaft--all the way out and puts in back in upside down so that it projects downward between the legs of the tripod, the camera can be attached so that slides can be made. The slides then can be projected, printed or digitized. One additional piece of advice: Practice before getting the the library/archives where the mss. are! Use similar low-light conditions. Good luck. Rick Asher University of Minnesota ***************************************************************** 2.) From: SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU (Jonathan Silk) Although this is not a positive suggestion, it might be worth mentioning: Whatever else you do, DO NOT use an auto-focus camera. Some photos of manuscripts which an acquaintance took in Nepal were unsuitable for reproduction for that reason. Autofocus cameras *approximate* the focal length, which may be OK for scenery, but is disaster when you want to be able to read something. Jonathan Silk Grinnell College SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU ***************************************************************** 3.) From: dgjohnsn at violet.berkeley.edu I have made copies of Chinese manuscripts using standard Fujicolor 400 color negative film for prints with a Canon EOS camera with a 35mm-75mm zoom lens, with very good results. But: the shots were taken outside, in a sunny courtyard, hence high f- stop and better resolution; and the prints were 5x7, which can be expensive. Test the lens first to see if you can get approximately an entire ms. leaf in your viewfinder, in focus. If you can't get that close to the ms., you may have an additional problem. David Johnson History UC Berkeley ***************************************************************** 4.) From: lochtefeldjames%faculty%Carthage at cns.carthage.EDU In regard to photographing manuscripts: I have nothing to add to the technical comments Lance Brennan made (my experience photographing manuscripts was much more rudimentary--I held the camera over the manuscript, tried not to move, and clicked the shutter). I used ordinary color print film, and the images turned out fine. One caution that I would add is that whenever possible the film should be developed before one leaves, to make sure that a page or pages hasn't been skipped by mistake. This can save a great deal of expense and aggravation (as it did for me, when I was able to go back and shoot the missing folio). James G. Lochtefeld Carthage College ***************************************************************** 5.) From: "T.T.Nguyen - Economics" If the ultimate intention is to "transfer the images to a computer format" then to use Logitech FOTOMAN: a special black and white hand-held camera which can take photographs directly in electronic format (e.g., PCX or GIF). No film is needed. The camera can take up to 12 pictures. After that, you download the pictures into a lapto or desktop computer and then continue the process. If you don't like the pictures, just retake them instantaneously. Cost about US$400-500. If you take pictures on regular films, eventually you will have to scan them into the computer. This might be an expensive proposition both timewise and moneywise if you are talking about hundreds of pictures (assuming that you already own a scanner). T. T. Nguyen University of Waterloo ***************************************************************** 6.) From: nsivin at sas.upenn.EDU (Nathan Sivin) What you want for photographing documents for reproduction is a macro lens, available for most high-quality single-lens reflexes, and above all else a portable copy stand, preferably folding for travel, that will hold the camera rock steady and parallel to the copy. You also need weights, like the ones used for Chinese calligraphy, that can be set in the margins of the document to hold it flat, and a cable release. For someone working on a restricted grant, it is better to buy a 15-year-old second-hand Nikon, with no automatic features at all, than the latest model of a cheap camera with mediocre optics. Old issues of _Modern Photography_ rate optics, but it is essential to examine the lens carefully for scratches or worn coating, which show misuse, and to get a week's tryout. The week can then be used for intensive trials of everything the camera will be used for. Having a built-in exposure meter is a waste of money, but it can be used if you can't afford a good incident- light meter like the Gossen. It won't give accurate readings, because the copy is too light, but experimentation will show how to compensate--again to be worked out during the trial period until you get perfect exposures to examine with a high-power magnifier for resolution. When buying a copy stand, put the camera on it, look through the viewer at the copy, and bump the camera. If you see the image moving for more than half of a second, it's not steady enough. To keep copy and camera parallel, an old trick I use is to carry a pocket mirror, lay it on the copy, and move the camera on the stand until the image of the lens in the mirror is centered in the viewer. The two are then parallel. -- Nathan Sivin History and Sociology of Science University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia PA 19104-3325 ================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 17:24:04 -0700 From: Frank Conlon Reply to: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA Subject: H-ASIA: Query on photographic copies of manuscripts (2) H-ASIA May 5, 1995 Further responses to query on photographic copies of manuscripts (2) *********************************************************************** From: D Price Re: The query about photographing mss. If you have a reasonably clear ms., good resolution b/w film, good light, and a close-up lens, you can do just fine with a 35 mm. camera. I used a low-end Nikon with built-in flash and limited zoom capability that got me to within about 18 in. of the target, and even with color film I got pretty legible results from a Chinese woodblock print book. The b/w negatives can be cut and mounted as slides easily. The main limitation is thye ability to focus up close, so you should test your equipment and get a good closeup lens if necessary to insure clarity. As for conversions to computer format, someone else will have to help you with that. Don Price University of California at Davis ************************************************************************* 2.) From: "Jeffrey G. Barlow" Another tip on photographing manuscripts. When working with _very_ faded manuscripts (even illegible ones) use a dark red or orange filter to enhance contrast and shoot on a high-speed black and white film. When you develop it, push it to further enhance contrast. Have it printed on hard papers; if there was any detail there at all, you should have been able to bring it up nicely. Jeffrey G. Barlow Professor of History Pacific University, Forest Grove, Oregon USA 97116 e-mail: barlowj at pacificu.edu ================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 06:58:16 -0700 From: Frank Conlon Reply to: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA Subject: H-ASIA: Query on photographic copies of manuscripts H-ASIA May 6, 1995 Further comment on query re: photographic copies of manuscripts ********************************************************************** From: Mel Thatcher The Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts (IGNCA) in Delhi has the largest manuscript microfilming project in India. The project is focused on documents in the fields of fine arts and literature. Filming is taking place in major manuscripts collections throughout India. Production work is done mainly through microfilm service bureaus which are required to meet internationally accepted quality standards. Scholars requiring copies of manuscripts in these fields should contact IGNCA to determine whether the records required have already been filmed. The contact person is Dr. T.A.V. Murthy, Librarian, IGNCA, Janpath, Delhi, India. My organization (the Genealogical Society of Utah) is microfilming manuscripts of Hindu pilgrimage records kept by pandits at various sites in North India and genealogies of Maithili Brahmins in the vicinity of Madhubani, Bihar. The filming is done by a microfilm service bureau, but processing is done in the USA. Using a common SLR camera to film manuscripts, as suggested by Lance Brennan, is certainly an option that is available to scholars. Black and white films is best because of its low ASA rating, which I think is around ASA 25. If color is required, ASA 64 is preferrable to higher speed films because the image is less grainy and thus sharper when enlarged. I think, however, that this option is viable only if the quantity of records is small and high photographic quality is not an issue. Microfilm is best for photographing manuscripts because it is manufactured specifically for this purpose. It is high contrast, panchromatic, slow speed film (too slow to be given an ASA rating according to some experts); so it is able to capture in the highest resolution any marks on a page which are visible to the eye. However, selecting the proper exposure setting for the background color of the document is critical to producing the best image. Thus, one has to do exposure step tests for document colors to determine the best exposure setting before embarking on production filming. The processing of step tests and production film must be identical in order to obtain the desired results--herein lies the problem in India. I have visited many microfilming labs in Delhi, Bombay, and Madras. Most of them do not have the proper kind of microfilm processors and/or do not practice process control to insure that the processing of each roll of film is the same. There are a few bureaus, however, which are capable of producing acceptable results or which can be brought up to speed with some training and consultation. I suggest that scholars needing microfilm service in India contact IGNCA for a shortlist of bureaus which it uses. If you engage a bureau be specific about and insistent on meeting quality standards. You should agree to pay for acceptable quality exposures only. Some microfilm service bureaus are now moving into electronic imaging; so scanning is another possible option if the manuscripts can be brought to the place where the scanner is located. Mel Thatcher Genealogical Society of Utah Hong Kong gsu at hk.super.net ================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 10:52:28 -0700 From: Frank Conlon Reply to: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA Subject: H-ASIA: Query on photographic copies of manuscripts (5) H-ASIA May 8, 1995 Further comments on query re: photographic copies of manuscripts (5) ********************************************************************** 1.) From: nsivin at sas.upenn.EDU (Nathan Sivin) I would like to add a warning about tripods. With few exceptions, really steady ones are bulky and heavy. If you don't believe me, try the bump test mentioned in my last message. There are small, light alternatives. If you can afford good equipment to last a lifetime, you might be interested in what I use, a remarkable three-legged copy stand made for Bolex movie cameras, with a tiny Leitz panhead, the ensemble weighing about 4 oz., taking up about the same volume as a camera, easy to set up parallel to copy lying on a table, and rock steady at any distance from an inch to 18 inches. It would probably cost about $150 today, which is the minimum for which you could get a tripod that any pro would take seriously. For a tenth of that you can buy a tiny ball-mounted head on a clamp that can be attached to a chair or jury-rigged in some other way. If the support is steady, the ensemble will be steady. Keep in mind that in most libraries, using ambient lighting (sunlight through a window is seldom uniform), you will often need no movement whatever for something like 1/2 second. What looks like a clear image when enlarged to 5x7 will often be unusable for reproduction. A realistic test is to blow the image up to twice the size of a full page and see if it is crystal clear at the edges, or use a low-powered microscope at similar magnification. Such photography is enormous labor. There is no sense in doing it for unusable or barely usable results. This is particularly true for worn or faded manuscripts, where it is important to be able to see exactly how legible each character is, and for which you may need to reproduce enlarged details. -- Nathan Sivin History and Sociology of Science University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia PA 19104-3325 ********************************************************************* 2.) From: Veena Talwar Oldenburg All I would add to the very detailed instructions to photographing manuscripts in low light conditions in libraries is to use the fastest speed, high contrast fil in black and white. I had superrb results and was able to print out the film in a microform reader for ten cents a page. For illustrations color film works but not as well as black and white. Veena Oldenburg ********************************************************************** 3.) From: Robin Kornman I hope somebody else has a better answer to this question. But I had the same question about the photographing of Tibetan block prints. A man who did a great deal of that kind of collecting of data told me that the thing that worked best for him was the simplest. He got a wooden board and nailed holes in it to put the folio pageson the board. THen went onto the roof of a building and used a simple 35mm camera with a tripod and a remote pushbutton on one of those metal cords. He said that the most important thing was not to have the right lens, but to make sure that the plan of the film in the camera is parallel with the plane in which the text lies. And so he set the text on a home-made stand so that it was slanted up and slanted the tripod at the same angle down. He used this technique to copy numerous texts onto high-resolution, "slow" 35mm film. I would love to hear of more sophisticated answers, because I have to do this kind of thing myself at times. Robin Kornman ********************************************************************* 4.) From: MOESHART at rullet.LeidenUniv.NL I have photographed lots of documents in archives and the best equipment for doing so has proved to be a 35mm single lens reflex camera with a 35 mm f2 lens. This enables me to do most of the photography sitting down with the document propped up against a piece of wood. For film I usually use Fuji Neopan 100 ASA (ISO) black and white negative\ film. This enables enlargements which are very good readable, or the negatives can be read in a microfilm reader. If your professor is not used to taking photographs this way, he should parctise before leaving! That will avoid mistakes later. Yours sincerely, Herman J. Moeshart Leiden University ********************************************************************** 5.) From: SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU (Jonathan Silk) 1) There seems to be some disagreement concerning film. My (very limited!) experience (almost all with Skt. MSS) is that color film often allows one to read what is otherwise illegible with b/w, for the following reason: if the color of the paper has changed, or there are shadows, or other damage etc., you can still differentiate the writing from the paper / shadow etc., which would perhaps not be possible with b/w. Alot of this will depend on the condition of the originals you want to shoot. (It also tells you whether, as is sometimes the case, more than one color of ink was used.) 2) I would recommend that you carefully try using a direct-to-disc method before relying on it. It seems to me more than likely that the resolution is not sufficient for the task. It is also likely that the quality of the lens is relatively poor (relative to a good Nikon lens, for example). Again, much of this will depend on what you want to photograph, and what you want to do with the photos. If you are taking photos of something worthwhile, however (and if not, why do it?), you will want to insure the highest possible resolution, even if you do not plan to take advantage of that resolution right away. Taking photographs, and then scanning them on a flatbed scanner, or better yet having them scanned on a drum scanner, will give you very high resolution, let you keep the film for future use, and still allow computer input. Jonathan Silk Grinnell College SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU ================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 10:21:48 -0700 From: Frank Conlon Reply to: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA Subject: H-ASIA: Query on photographic copies of manuscripts H-ASIA May 10, 1995 A final comment on the query on photographic copies of manuscripts ********************************************************************** From: standen A small technical addition, particularly if using slow shutter speeds. To avoid camera shake from the raising of the mirror on a single-lens reflex camera, use the self-portrait feature. With this set (at least on a Nikon), the mirror rises when you press the shutter release button, but the shutter itself does not release for however many seconds you have set, thus allowing the camera to settle down from the mirror action first. Naomi Standen standen at fyfield.sjc.ox.ac.uk ================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 16:13:47 -0700 From: Frank Conlon Reply to: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA Subject: H-ASIA: Re: photographing documents H-ASIA May 11, 1995 Further comment on photography of documents ********************************************************************* From: Mel Thatcher Here are a few observations on photographic quality by a colleague who has spent about three decades working in conventional photography, cinematograhpy, and microphotography. Film speed and resolution: Film manufacturers obtain faster film speeds by enlarging the silver halide crystals in the film emulsion, thus the grain in slower film emulsions is finer than in faster film emulsions. Consequently, slower films are capable of higher resolution than faster films. (You can test this by comparing the readability of slides of documents filmed on 64, 100, 200, and 400 ASA , as I have done.--MT) Color film: If color film is used for filming documents, Kodachrome film will produce the sharpest image because a color dye process is used to bring out the image. The image in Ektachrome type film is grainy because it uses a silver emulsion (the grain is much larger than in B&W microfilm). Regardless of which type of film is used, slower speeds are better for filming documents. Digital cameras: While digital cameras produce images which look fine on a SVGA monitor, the resolution is still not up to the standard of microfilm. (Our organization is working with manufacturers of digital cameras on solving this problem.--MT) Scanning: Depending upon the condition of the original document, scanning from microfilm may produce a better image than scanning the original because the microfilm image has already been reduced to black and white. Mel Thatcher Genealogical Society of Utah gsu at hk.super.net ================================================================= From: Frank Conlon Reply to: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA Subject: H-ASIA: Photographing manuscripts H-ASIA May 13, 1995 Further comment on manuscript photography and preservation ********************************************************************* From: Kenneth E Rasmussen On the subject of Kodachrome vs. Ektachrome: As anyone who has been around slide collections knows, the color on Kodachrome slides will last years longer than that on Ektachrome slides, which fade to red after 10 years or so. (I'm not really sure about Ektachrome's exact longevity, but it is certainly far less than Kodachrome's.) I'm a grad student in art history at Yale, specializing in Chinese painting, 13th to 15th centuries. I'll post a more complete self-introduction next year, when I find a dissertation topic. Eric Rasmussen Yale University ================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 14:15:08 -0700 From: Frank Conlon Reply to: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA Subject: H-ASIA: Further on photography, manuscripts etc. H-ASIA May 22, 1995 Further comment on photographic reproductions of manuscripts etc. ********************************************************************* From: Gary M Tartakov I wish to add a note to Kenneth E RasmussenUs post on the comparative qualities of Kodachrome and Ektachrome in copying documents. The following comes from the curator of the slide collection at Iowa State University, and accords with my experience over many years using both. Rasmussen wrote: "the color on Kodachrome slides will last years longer than that on Ektachrome slides, which fade to red after 10 years or so. (I'm not really sure about Ektachrome's exact longevity, but it is certainly far less than Kodachrome's)." Our experience is somewhat different. The archival qualities of Kodachrome are not necessarily "better" than Ektachrome, they are just different. Indeed Kodachrome is less grainy. Each of course is somewhat different in colors. Kodachrome will last *longer* than Ektachrome if it is properly stored in a dark and chemically inert environment. Ektachrome will last longer than Kodachrome if the slide is projected often. Projection will fade Kodachrome faster than Ektachrome. The point is that for archival purposes and later reproduction the major difference is which slide makes the sort of reproduction one wants most. Each may have a different preference in color quality. The issue of fading is largely one of will the slides be projected during study or teaching. If one is going to project one needs to use duplicates or ektachrome, because Kodachrome changes colors as hours of projection continue. For my own work I prefer Kodachrome originals because they pick up greater detail and cover a wider range that Ektachrome. And IUve gotten used to its RwarmerS colors. I study and reproduce the Kodachrome slides. If I want to project for a class, I have Ektachrome duplicates made. Gary Tartakov Iowa State University ================================================================= To post to H-ASIA send your message to H-ASIA at msu.edu To temporarily interrupt your H-ASIA service for holidays send a posting to with the message: SET H-ASIA NOMAIL When you return and wish to resume H-ASIA service send a similar posting with message: SET H-ASIA MAIL Private questions should go either to: conlon at u.washington.edu or Leibo at ALBNYVMS.bitnet From hgroover at qualitas.com Sun Jan 28 14:01:41 1996 From: hgroover at qualitas.com (Henry Groover) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 96 09:01:41 -0500 Subject: Field trip to India: HELP! Message-ID: <161227022443.23782.4873496255696683996.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Beatrice Reusch wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be going to India in a month or so to collect some Sanskrit manuscripts, and I need to take a camera with me. Could someone kindly explain to me what would be the advantage of taking a digital camera? >HG>> I think the replies you've gotten were great in that they basically advocate the low-tech emulsion-type film approach. I basically agree, but let me answer briefly some of your questions about digital. The only real advantage of a digital camera is that you're on-site after having spent 6 hours riding train, taxi, tonga, ricksha etc. and you've negotiated access to some rare manuscript, you shoot your pictures and can immediately download them to your laptop and verify their readability. This is provisionally _if_ everything works as expected. You should be able to get readable quality this way, and you could probably do so in black and white (which considerably lowers the pricing of your camera, but that shouldn't be the main consideration here). As pointed out previously, your quality still won't be comparable to fine-grained emulsion film (which you could then put on Photo CD for about $1 per frame and have extremely high-resolution digital content). >BR>> Could you please tell me in detail what kind of materials I need to take with me? If a non-digital camera is better, what type of camera and film? >HG>> This has been handled in great and informative detail. >BR>> If digital, again, what kind? >HG>> As you seem to be using a Mac, check out Apple's digital camera. I would not suggest going with a low-end model priced for the consumer market. Visit a bookstore and get a copy of Imaging magazine, also Digital Video magazine will have reviews and ads for these somewhat specialized products. Another alternative I would _seriously_ consider is a digital camcorder. Expect to pay $3,000-$4,000 (but then by the time you get a Power Mac laptop with a big enough hard disk plus a professional quality digital camera you're close to that) for one of the new Sony models. The current issue of Digital Video has a feature article on these. Basically, you get 700 scan lines of resolution (compared to 400-500 on NTSC or PAL video). It may seem a bit odd to suggest this for still shots _but_ you can check the readability as you shoot. Once you get back to the States you can hook up the digital camcorder to a machine with a FireWire interface and upload everything directly to your hard disk. This is just a really wild idea, and I would see what others have to say about shooting MSS with a camcorder. You still have to extract single frames once you get everything back on your hard disk, but this should be relatively straightforward. >BR>> If I take a digital camera, can I use it with a laptop Mac? >HG>> Yes; all (decent) digital cameras have a SCSI or serial interface for uploading pictures to a PC or Mac. But I would try to get more specific info from folks who've been doing digital photography, perhaps on one of the fora suggested (rec.arts.photography ?) >BR>> What type of battery-powered Mac would be the best? How much RAM, what size of hard drive? >HG>> Get one with more than the minimum recommended RAM (if it was a PC I'd say 8MB minimum). You need a laptop with very good battery performance. I have a Dell Latitude XP which uses lithium ion batteries - expensive, but no memory, high capacity, and quick recharge. Get a big hard drive - images take up lots of space, even with compression. 1GB would be best though you could probably squeak by with 540MB. >BR>> What type of backup/storage device? >HG>> A Zip drive might be good for this - they're cheap, store 100MB per cartridge, but don't run off batteries. You can do backup when you get back to the hotel. Hope some of this helps. There's no terribly useful info here but lots of ideas and a few little facts. Regards, Henry Groover HGroover at qualitas.com >BR>> I'd sincerely appreciate it immensely if you could kindly take the time to answer my questions. I'm really in need of advice here. I'm drowning in an ocean of ignorance. Please help! With best wishes, Beatrice <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< From ty37 at columbia.edu Mon Jan 29 06:20:57 1996 From: ty37 at columbia.edu (Thomas Yarnall) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 01:20:57 -0500 Subject: Tillemans address Message-ID: <161227022453.23782.698513355040107660.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello - I am a graduate student in Buddhist Studies at Columbia University in New York. Does anyone at your location know the e-mail address for Prof. Tom Tillemans (Section de Langues et Civilzations Orientales, Universite de Lausanne, Switzerland)? Thankyou very much! - Tom Yarnall (ty37 at columbia.edu) From mail07464 at pop.net Mon Jan 29 15:26:35 1996 From: mail07464 at pop.net (mail07464 at pop.net) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 07:26:35 -0800 Subject: Field trip to India: HELP! Message-ID: <161227022463.23782.13846456720879316708.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dominik, Thank you so much for your useful comments. What you say makes sense to me. And you are right: this makes a chapter of your Web page -- first-class page, by the way. I'm going to Andhra and Tamilnadu to look for all manuscripts available of the Vaikhanasa Mantra-prasna, commentaries thereof, and other related literature. I'd also try to record the chanting of the mantras. The manuscripts most likely will be in the Telugu and Tamil scripts and thus high-resolution photographs (or photocopies) are crucial. Incidentally, do you happen to have any idea how to contact Teun Goudriaan, the author of the English Kasyapa Knana-kanda? I'd like to ask him for advice regarding places to go to in South India. Many thanks, again. Beatrice From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU Mon Jan 29 14:15:27 1996 From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 09:15:27 -0500 Subject: VYAKARAN Message-ID: <161227022460.23782.8534913727095853773.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear John, I thought I had asked yoiu to become a member earlier. Anyhow, could you please subscribe me? Alles Gute und viele Gruesse Michael Witzel From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Mon Jan 29 11:17:11 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 11:17:11 +0000 Subject: Field trip to India: HELP! Message-ID: <161227022456.23782.4330172735087625553.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Beatrice, You have had a vast number of highly informed replies to your query about filming MSS in India. My experience of photographing Skt. MSS in Indian libraries supports the view that a) almost any modern 35mm camera with ttl light metering will do an excellent job; b) black and white film is simplest, cheapest, and normally adequate (but colour film is much more easily bought in India); c) don't use a digital camera (it is unnecessary for your aims); d) a tripod and shutter-release cable is a great help if you are doing more than a score of leaves; an automatic film wind is also a great help; I think that almost more important than anything is that you should be as familiar as possible with your camera. Use it a lot before you go; try photographing documents in different lights, etc. Get comfortable with the tool. Stay as low-tech as you can (within limits). Keep it simple ...! Overwhelmingly the most important point about photographing MSS is the human relationship that you are able to build up with the custodians of the collection you are visiting. In spite of the severe difficulties frequently put in our way, sometimes for apparently daft reasons, one has to try to retain a deep respect for these curators. They must continue to sit in their dusty offices, long after we have jetted off. In my "manuscript" trip three weeks ago to Mysore and Trivandrum, I had limited success in Mysore, but more so in Trivandrum. In both cases, the outcome of my visit was a mixture of photographs and photocopies. May I ask which libraries you will be visiting? This topic is crying out for a FAQ to be written. Any volunteers? The Asia-h material on filming would be an ideal starting point for a precis. Names of libraries, librarians, summaries of experiences, would all be useful additions. If anyone starts the FAQ, I'll put it up on the INDOLOGY web page, with full credits. -- Dominik Wujastyk, Wellcome Institute, 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE. FAX: +44 171 611 8545 email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html From kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu Mon Jan 29 17:42:41 1996 From: kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu (Kamal Adhikary) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 11:42:41 -0600 Subject: Seminar Abstracts Message-ID: <161227022467.23782.1014171738393613067.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues: The Asian Studies at the University of Texas schedules Japan Seminar, China Seminar, South Asia Seminar in Fall and Spring Semesters. Led by different faculty members, these three seminars exist to promote open discussion on different aspects of the culture, economy, politics, philosophy, religion, government policies, history, demography, environment, or other selected topics for Japan, China, and South Asia. The seminars are open to all interested faculty members, students, and the general public. Available abstracts of all talks and lectures are posted on the Asian Studies Web page (http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/index.html) after each talk or lecture. Below are some abstracts from last semester's South Asia seminar sessions. This semester I will be posting the abstracts as soon as they are available. I hope they will be of interest to some of you. ******* SEMINAR ABSTRACTS SOMNOLENT SUTRAS: SCRIPTURAL COMMENTARY IN SVETAMBARA JAINISM BY PAUL DUNDAS DEPARTMENT OF SANSKRIT UNIVERSITY OF EDINBURGH ABSTRACT (Note: a full version of this paper will be published in "Journal of Indian Philosophy") Scholarly approaches to traditional Indian commentary have generally turned around its success or failure in mirroring the supposed intentions of the author of the root text from which it derives or, alternatively, have addressed the various hermeneutic strategies used by commentators. Little attention has been given to the alternative issue of the actual status of commentary with South Asian scriptural traditions as an institution, the extent to which it can be regarded as representing a text as well as explaining it and to the fact that commentary has on occasion itself achieved canonicity. The purpose of this paper is to address the issue of how certain prominent Svetambara Jain intellectuals in the medieval period viewed the nature of scriptural commentary. Specifically, it focuses upon Svetambara Jainism's greatest exegete, Abhayadeva Suri (eleventh century) and a later figure, Dharmasagara Upadhyaya (sixteenth century), its greatest sectarian polemicist. A clear linkage between the two can be seen in their mutual reiteration of the claim, based on etymological sleight of hand, by an earlier Jain scholar, Jinabhadra Ganin (sixth century) that a sutra without some sort of commentarial explication is equivalent to somebody who is asleep. A broad contextualisation of the four main styles of traditional Jain scriptural exegesis (niryukti, curni, bhasya and vrtti) shows that it is strongly predicated upon the acceptance of meaning as being superior to word. At the same time, scriptural exegesis also was regarded as a means of conferring merit upon those who studied or heard it and, as such, was associated by exegetes with that compassion which informs the Jain conception of true religiosity. Gradually, from about the seventh century or so, Jain commentary becomes a necessary component part of authoritative scripture, rather than a mere ancillary to it. The hagiographies of the commentator Abhayadeva (in particular, the version of the thirteenth century Prabhavacandra in his Prabhavakacarita) exemplify a variety of themes: the connection of correct exegesis with bodily health, the necessity of access to a source of elevated authority (in this case, the tirthankara Simandhara) and the increasing obscurity of Ardhamagadhi Prakrit. That Abhayadeva himself was aware of the indispensable role of commentary can be seen in this approving citation in his commentary on the Sthananga Sutra of Jinabhadra's derivation of the term sutta from supta, asleep. A consideration of Dharmasagara's exegetical manual, the Sutravyakhynavidhisataka, shows that this monk adopted a particularly radical attitude to canonical texts. For him, scripture on its own is valueless. Without the mediating aid of commentary which can only be carried out by properly initiated ascetics, an exclusively sutra - derived standpoint will lead only to heresy. In conclusion, it is shown that medieval views about the status of commentary still have relevance in recent times within the Jain ascetic and scholarly community in respect of the vexed topic of how scripture should be presented and edited. ************** THE DIALECTICAL CONSTRUCTION OF HINDUISM: Uses of the Veda in Modern Discourse on "Hinduism" and Indian National Identity -------BRIAN K. SMITH (BRIAN K. SMITH is Professor in the Department of Religious Studies at the University of California, Riverside. He is the author of Reflections on Resemblance, Ritual, and Religion (New York: Oxford University Press, 1989), and of Classifying the Universe: The Ancient varna System and the Origins of Caste (New York: Oxford University Press, 1994). His articles have appeared in such academic journals as Religion, History of Religions, Numen, The Journal of the American Academy of Religion, The Journal of the American Academy of Religion, Contributions to Indian Sociology, Indo-Iranian Journal, and Man. He is also co-producer of "Burning Bridges" an 18 minute sampler documentary on Hindu-Muslim relations in India.) --Abstract The construction of modern representations of Indian religion and national and cultural identity was not, as Edward Said and others might have it, a one-way imposition of Orientalist discourse on Asian realities, but rather the product of a dialectical interaction between the West and India. One possibility for a "research agenda for the next generation" is to carry out a post-Saidian task of analyzing Indic materials in such a way that a) acknowledges the inevitable and inescapable representational quality of all such scholarship about India, but also b) takes seriously and integrates the Indian contributions to the formation of those representations. In this paper I attempt to illustrate the dialectical character of East-West discourse by concentrating on the place of the Veda and the ancient Indian past in recent constructions of "Hinduism" and Indian National and cultural identity. While some have contended that both "Hinduism" and conceptions of "India" that rely heavily on appropriations and representations of the Indic past for their modern contours are derivative products originating in the West and superimposed upon (and later assimilated by) South Asians, it is my contention that what we have here are very good examples of a give-and-take process in which both indigenous and foreign parities participated. ******************* RECOGNIZING THE DRAVIDIAN CONTRIBUTION TO INDIAN CIVILIZATION: AN AGENDA FOR THE FUTURE Andre F. Sjoberg Department of Asian Studies University of Texas at Austin (Andre F. Sjoberg is Associate Professor in the Department of Asian Studies at the University of Texas at Austin. Her publications include "Who are the Dravidians?" in Andre F. Sjoberg (ed.), Symposium on Dravidian Civilization) As the title of the paper suggests, my discussion focuses on the Dravidian component in Indian civilization, though time constraints make it necessarily brief. I am fully aware that this topic is a controversial one, though it seems less so today than when I first ventured into it several decades ago. For one thing, there has been an ongoing re-examination and re-evaluation of Indian history, particularly with respect to the colonial period. Edward Said's Orientalism, published in 1978, has had an unmistakable impact on scholarship pertaining to colonialism in India. More recent works, such as Breckenridge and van der Veer's edited book Orientalism and the Postocolonial Predicament (1993), have dealt specifically with South Asia , as have a number of journal articles on orientalism. However, so far as I can determine, there has been no systematic effort to investigate the early period in Indian history--soon after Aryan conquest--from the perspective of the conquered peoples: in other words, from a bottom-up rather than a top-down approach. Sheldon Pollock's phrase "indigenous 'orientalism'" (see his chapter in Breckenridge and van der Veer, pp. 107-08) may be very apt here. A second factor in the shifting perspective on Indian cultural history is the increasing attention being directed to the non-Indo-European component in areas of Indo-European settlement other than India. The best-known major work is Martin Bernal's Black Athena (Vol. 1, 1987; Vol. 2, 1991). That this detailed examination of non-Indo-European features in Greek civilization--mainly, Egyptian and Semitic--would elicit hostitlity amon classicists is hardly surprising . Still, whatever one's assessment of Bernal's scholarship, which draws evidence from archaeology, linguistics, and cultural history, it is clear that he has dramatically recast the framework for scholarly enterprise on classical Greece. He has also been increasingly gaining respect in some well-established intellectual circles (see the special issue of Isis (December 1992) on the origins of Greek science). Although my efforts are minor compared to the almost monumental researching of Bernal, we are both seeking to counter what we see as an overly strong Europeanist bias in the traditional interpretations of the development of particular civilizations in areas of Indo-European settlement and culutral dominance. References: (Austin and New York: Jenkins Publishing Co., 1971), 1-26; "The Dravidian Contribution to the Development of Indian Civilization; A Call for a Reassessment", "Comparative Civilizations Review," No. 23 (Fall, 1990), 40-74; and "The Impact of Dravidian on Indo-Aryan; An Overview," in Reconstruction Languages and cultures, Edgar C. Polom and Werner Winter, eds. (Berlin and New York; Mouton de Gruyter, 1992), 507-29. ************ Jyotihshastra: Manuscripts, Science, and the Transmission of Science by David Pingree, Brown University Since about 10% of the estimated tens of millions of Sanskrit manuscripts can be classified as belonging to jyotihshastra (astronomy, mathematics, astrology and divination) and these sciences permeate works on dharmashastra, prosody, architecture, medicine and music, the study of jyotihshastra was and is essential to understanding Indian culture fully, and affords the modern scholar an extraordinary range of opportunities for original research. But, since many of its fundamental ideas were introduced into India from external cultures, and within India shaped to fit Indian social and intellectual patterns and needs, and since the Indian developments were then transmitted to peoples throughout Eurasia, the study of jyotihshastra must be both intercultural and intracultural. In illustration of the sorts of problems that can be fruitfully addressed, I briefly refer to some projects that I and some of my students are currently involved in. On the intracultural side, I have been attempting to compile a Census of the Exact Sciences in Sanskrit in which will be recorded all authors from India whose works touch upon jyotihshastram with full biographical and bibliographical information, including all known manuscripts of their works. After finishing the author series, I intend to compile the same material for the individual texts, a large number of which are anonymous. Out of this will come not only the information one needs to select interesting texts to work on and to locate their manuscripts, printings if any, and studies, but also a wealth of information on scribes and collectors which will be the basis of studies of the transmission of texts within India. Since the vast majority of Sanskrit manuscripts is not yet catalogued, I have also been working on catalogues of jyotisa manuscripts (and dharmashastra ones as well), and encouraging others to undertake this absolutely vital and fundamental task. Since we have many problems in conceiving of how Indian students were taught science in sufficient depth that they could do original work, I and some students have been preparing critical editions of commentaries that seem to us to present remarkable insights into what went on in an Indian classroom on astronomy. On the intercultural level, I have been working on the Paitamahasiddhanta, which introduced Greek spherical astronomy to India, and on its descendent, the Brahmasphtasiddhanta of Brahmagupta, which was a model for later Sanskrit siddhantas, but which also was translated into Arabic and served to spread Indian astronomy throughout Islam and Europe, both Eastern and Western, as well. Many other important siddhantas and Baravas, to speak only of works on mathematical astronomy among the various types of jyotisa texts, remain completely unexplored. Finally, in somewhat more detail, I describe an instance in the history of Indian astronomy for which we have masses of material, but which have never been examined before. This was the attempt made by some astronomers of the Sanskrit tradition in Northern India during the Mughal period to study Islamic adaptations of Ptolemy and to incorporate some elements of this different science into their own, and the parallel attempt of some Muslim scientists to do the same thing with Sanskrit material. Among traditional jyotis these efforts were condemned as the abandonment of the teachings of gods and risis, just as those same jyotis were in turn being attached as having betrayed the Puranas by accepting the theory of a spherical earth. The arguments presented by various participants in these controversies, which forced them to consider the real philosophical and cultural bases of their sciences, are briefly renewed; and it is shown that culture remained an unassailable barrier to the acceptance of the fundamental ideas of the alien science, though jyotisis quite readily learned to compute a la Muslim. *********************** Protestants and Orientalists Prof. Richard W. Lariviere Asian Studies, UT, Austin, Texas This paper looks at criticisms of Sanskrit philology I want to look at criticisms of what we are doing when we engage in the enterprise of studying ancient Indian literature. Specifically, I want to look at the challenges and criticisms that have been leveled against philologists who have chosen to study India. I want to look at three important types of criticism. I will use a sort of short-hand means of referring to these three types of criticism: I will call these criticisms the Orientalist criticism, the Essentialist criticism, and the Distortionist criticism. The first criticism I will call the Orientalist criticism. Ithas its origin in the landmark work of Edward Said in his book Orientalism,but that book has spawned an entire mini-industry all its own. I want totalk about the charge that Europeans (and I include Americans under thisrubric) have in some sense "created" the India that they study. That this"created India" has no basis in reality, and has been created to serve aconstellation of interests all of which benefit Europeans and are inimicalto the Indians, themselves. The second criticism I will call the Essentialist criticism. It is articulated, for example, by Ronald Inden in his book Imagining India. It is the one that says that what we have done with our knowledge of ancient India is create "essences" of India and Indian society. In doing so, we have again denied the reality of what India was and is, and created a manageable but grossly distorted view of India. In creating these essences we have also denied Indians agency in their own history. We have denied them the ability to shape their own destiny. The third criticism that I want to address is what I call the Distortionist criticism. This is the charge that ideas found in Indian culture are taken out of their context and used for nefarious purposes elsewhere. This criticism has been brought by Sheldon Pollock in an article entitle "Deep Orientalism? Notes on Sanskrit and Power Beyond the Raj." My point is that each of these criticisms can be met effectively if we return to the philological techniques and values that have been exhibited with such consistency in the study of Greek and Latin classics, and that were once an important part of Sanskrit philology, but seem, in recent years, to have fallen out of favor. ***************** I do not like to use up your mail box-space all at once. I will post the rest of the abstracts day after tomorrow. Thanks. kamal _______________ Kamal R. Adhikary, Ph.D. Internet Coordinator, Asian Studies UT, Austin, Texas 78712 Tel:512-475-6034 Email:kamal at asnic.utexas.edu From mail07464 at pop.net Mon Jan 29 19:44:22 1996 From: mail07464 at pop.net (mail07464 at pop.net) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 11:44:22 -0800 Subject: Field trip to India Message-ID: <161227022474.23782.16493250269080467702.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> oops, somehow the Cc found its way into a personal letter. I'm sorry! From lorenzen at colmex.mx Mon Jan 29 18:50:11 1996 From: lorenzen at colmex.mx (David Lorenzen S.) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 12:50:11 -0600 Subject: Field trip to India: HELP! Message-ID: <161227022469.23782.5066925425985312595.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> If you use simple color print film, something I've found quite adequate for manuscripts, one money saving tip, particularly for slighly bigger prints, is to get it developed and printed in India. One big advantage of color over black and white is that it enables you to identify text and section divisions (usually in red) quite rapidly. A tripod is a must, and if possible you should use natural light, not flash. Also, be sure to photograph as close as possible, one (not double) page at a time if the manuscript is big or the writing small. David From lorenzen at colmex.mx Mon Jan 29 18:59:06 1996 From: lorenzen at colmex.mx (David Lorenzen S.) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 12:59:06 -0600 Subject: Field trip to India: HELP! Message-ID: <161227022472.23782.1701799381648787217.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> One small addition to my previous message. If using black and white film on manuscripts that have sections in red ink, it is very useful to use a green filter. Otherwise the red tends to fade out. My experience is that color film is not only better, but also much cheaper than black and white. David From Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz Mon Jan 29 12:02:59 1996 From: Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz (Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 13:02:59 +0100 Subject: Commentary on Tevaram Message-ID: <161227022458.23782.8317420918899519595.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear friends, Can anyone of you recommend me a commented edition of TEVARAM? I would rather have a word-to-word commentary, but a "translation" into Tamil would be also welcome. Thank you. -- |-------------------------------|-----------------------------| | Mr. Jan Dvorak, M.A. | | | Institute of Indian Studies | Home address: | | Charles University | | | Celetna 20 | Vodojemska 553 | | 110 00 Praha 1 | 190 14 Praha 9 - Klanovice | | Czech Republic | Czech Republic | | |-----------------------------| | | | phone: ##42-2-24491403 | | E-mail: dvorakj at dec59.ruk.cuni.cz | |-------------------------------------------------------------| From martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de Tue Jan 30 00:41:48 1996 From: martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de (F.J. Martinez Garcia) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 18:41:48 -0600 Subject: Professor fuer "Indogermanische Sprachwissenschaft (Nachfolge Schindler)" Message-ID: <161227022465.23782.10335350301248610298.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/home/ftp/pub/ titus/public_html/curric/e-stelle.htm ------------------------------------------------- Am Institut fuer Sprachwissenschaft der Geisteswissenschaftlichen Fakultaet der Universitaet Wien ist ab sofort die Planstelle eines/r Ordentlichen Professors/in fuer "Indogermanische Sprachwissenschaft (Nachfolge Schindler)" zu besetzen. Bewerber/innen sollen moeglichst breit in der Indogermanistik profiliert oder durch sprachvergleichende Arbeiten auf einem Teilgebiet besonders ausgewiesen sein. Hervorragende Beherrschung der sprachwissenschaftlichen Methodik und philologische Kompetenz werden erwartet. Ein Schwerpunkt im ostindogermanischen Bereich - vorzugsweise Indoiranistik - ist erwuenscht. Voraussetzung fuer die Bewerbung ist ein abgeschlossenes einschlaegiges Studium. Habilitation oder gleichwertige in- oder auslaendische Qualifikation und Nachweis der paedagogischen Eignung wird erwartet. Bewerbungen sind unter Beilage eines Curriculum vitae, eines Schriftenverzeichnisses und einer Aufstellung der bisher gehaltenen Lehrveranstaltungen bis 30. April 1996 an das Dekanat der Geisteswissenschaftlichen Fakultaet der Universitaet Wien, Dr. KarlLueger-Ring 1, A-1010 Wien, zu richten. Aufgrund des Frauenfoerderungsplanes im Wirkungsbereich des Bundesministeriums fuer Wissenschaft, Forschung und Kunst werden an der Universitaet Wien Frauen bei gleicher Qualifikation bevorzugt aufgenommen. =================================================================== Dr. Fco. Javier Mart!nez Garc!a Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft | tel. +49- 69- 7982 2847 Universitt Frankfurt | (sekr.) +49- 69- 7982 3139 Postfach 11 19 32 | fax. +49- 69- 7982 2873 D-60054 Frankfurt | martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/home/ftp/pub/titus/public_html =================================================================== From John.Powers at anu.edu.au Mon Jan 29 23:39:01 1996 From: John.Powers at anu.edu.au (John.Powers at anu.edu.au) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 09:39:01 +1000 Subject: Tom Tillemanns Address Message-ID: <161227022476.23782.1982100942941932326.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have an e-mail address and a fax number for Prof. Tom Tillemanns: Tom Tillemans Tillemans at orient.unil.ch FAX: 41 39 36 15 64 John Powers Faculty of Asian Studies Australian National University From magier at columbia.edu Tue Jan 30 21:08:02 1996 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 16:08:02 -0500 Subject: Symposium Announcement Message-ID: <161227022480.23782.12529812335381989761.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This event announcement is being forwarded to your mailing list from the Events Calendar of The South Asia Gopher. Please contact event organizers directly for any further information on this event. Do not send such queries to The South Asia Gopher. Thank you. David Magier (SAG) ============================================================= Symposium Announcement: "WHOSE VEDA?" A research initiative and symposium of The Working Group on The Relevance of the Veda (sponsored by the Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center of Columbia University) dates: FEBRUARY 16-18, 1996 location: University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida For more information on this symposium (beyond the details supplied below), please contact: Professor Vasudha Narayanan Dept. of Religion University of Florida Gainesville, Flordia USA ph: 904-392-1625 email: vasu at claf.ufl.edu __________________________________________ THE VEDAS, which include the Samhita, Brahmana, Aranyaka, and Upanisad sections of the Rig, Sama, Atharva, and Yajur collections have functioned both as revelation and as manuals of ritual for the many Hindu traditions. Notions of the unchanging, immutable, eternal sound of the Vedas have coexisted with a pattern of dynamic interpretation whereby the perceived meaning of the Veda has been made accessible and fitting to the changing times and places. While some sections of the Vedic texts and injunctions have been recited and acted upon without major changes for at least the last two thousand years, the process of understanding and decoding the Vedas has not been static. While the Vedas themselves assert the force of a "unifying" truth underlying the hymns and the philosophical speculation, this truth has been interpreted in a manner that was fitting and applicable to any given generation. The process of interpretation and making the message relevant to any generation has been at the heart of Vedic hermeneutics. Despite the composition of several works which have been more popular among the masses than the Vedic revelation, the theoretical, ritual, and epistemological significance of the Vedas has been unquestioned. Thus, the highest honor given to a religious text which was important to any religious tradition was to call that work the "fifth Veda." In the last two thousand years several such texts have claimed this title. The fifth Veda comprehends questions of legitimacy, legacy and spiritual authenticity. Many injunctive (ritual), mythological (Itihasa-Purana), scientific, devotional and even biographical texts proclaim themselves to be the fifth Veda, breaking through the traditional distinction between sruti and smrti. The key to breaking through the categories of sruti and smrti is the public recognition of the authenticity and authority of certain texts. For example, Bharata Muni, author of the Natya Sastra, the primary text on the theory and practice of drama, relies on the unprecedented nature of his enterprise to bring it into the orbit of "Veda." But Natya Sastra does not take this identification lightly or simply analogically, but pleads its case by illustrating that the Vedas themselves fall under the purview of natya. The Puranas employ several arguments in order to prove their identity as Veda. One is that they are infallible because the supreme Lord is the very embodiment of the Veda. The Mahabharata, one of the two major Hindu epics, was consistently called the "fifth Veda" because it was a storehouse of religious and secular knowledge, both theoretical and pragmatic. Vernacular compositions in the south, especially the Tiruvaymoli ("Sacred Utterances") of Nammalvar in the ninth century and the Periya Puranam, a hagiography of saints who were devotees of Siva, were also considered to be equivalent to the Vedas. In the Kashmir Saiva tradition several agamic texts functioned as the Veda. These texts did not make even a cursory attempt to imitate or reproduce the Sanskrit Vedas in any way, nor were they commentaries on the Vedic texts. They lay claim to the title "Veda" because the people who venerated these works thought of them as containing the wisdom embodied in the original Sanskrit Vedas. The concept of a fifth Veda expresses the desire for any given community to negotiate the meaning of sruti and mediate it to their milieu. It is not just within the Hindu tradition that the Veda of "Truth" is important. Both Christians and Muslims in South India have appropriated the notion of "Veda" and consider their scriptures to be revelation. The Veda is the vehicle to know the supreme, and in this sense both the Bible and the Qur'an function as the "Veda." These are just some of the ways in which post-Vedic texts and traditions appropriated the authority and authenticity of the Vedas. This is not to say that the Vedic "tradition" suffered serious rupture, for this extension is surely a natural result of a dynamic religious and literary tradition that encouraged innovation while not losing sight of its origins. **** Whose Veda? A symposium ________________________________ FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 16TH RUTH MCQUOWN ROOM, 219 DAUER HALL University of Flordia, Gainesville 7:30 PM Welcome Dr. Vasudha Narayanan University of Florida, Gainesville, Co-Chair of the Working Group on the Relevance of the Veda, Dharam Hinduja India Research Center Greetings Dr. Mary McGee, Director, Hinduja Center, Columbia University Lecture Dr. Philip Lutgendorf, University of Iowa "Tulsidas' Ramayan as the Hindi Veda" * SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 17TH 349 J.WAYNE REITZ UNION University of Florida, Gainesville MORNING SESSION: 9:00 AM-12:00 PM Opening Remarks Dr. Mary McGee, Columbia University Dr. Vasudha Narayanan, University of Florida Dr. Frederick Smith, University of Iowa Presentations Dr. Frederick Smith, University of Iowa "Injunction, Ideology, and Nostalgia: Questions of Vedic Self-Identity" Dr. Natalia Lidova, Dept. of Oriental Literatures, Institute of World Literature, Moscow "The Natyasastra as the Veda at the Breakage of the Vedic Age" Dr. Gary A. Tubb, Columbia University "Continuing Revelation: Kavi as Seer in Classical Sanskrit Poetics" Dr. James Fitzgerald, University of Tennessee "Observations on Brahmins in the Fifth Veda: Brahmin Resentment and Apocalypsism in the Mahabharata" * AFTERNOON SESSION: 2:00-5:00 PM * Dr. Glenn Yocum, Whittier College "The Holy Book in a Contemporary Tamil Saiva Environment: The Tiruvacagam at Avadaiyar Koil" Dr. Thomas Thangaraj, Emory University "The Veda-Agama in South Indian Christianity" Dr. Vasudha Narayanan, University of Florida "The Four Luminous Vedas of Tamil Islam" * SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 18TH * 361 J. WAYNE REITZ UNION University of Florida, Gainesville -- 9:00-11:30 AM Discussion led by Dr. Francis X. Clooney, Boston College Sunday's discussion will explore the implications of different usages of the term "Veda" in various historical, literary, and religious contexts. How does the meaning of Veda translate into different traditions? Does Veda/scripture function differently in different traditions? Has the Veda ceased to be the exclusive property of the Hindus and become the common heritage of all South Asians? Was the Veda ever the exclusive property of Hindus? What about the Buddhists and Jains who reject the authority of the Vedas? How do these communities conceive of the Vedas and how do they respond to other communities' appropriation of the concept Veda? Can the concept of Veda, as it is appropriated by different religious communities in South Asia, be used as a bridge for interreligious understanding and dialogue, or has its appropriation created misunderstandings and barriers? How does an understanding of Veda in its different contexts lead us to a better understanding of these religious communities differences and similarities? **** __________________________________________ The Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center at Columbia University Mary McGee, Director Associate Professor of Classical Hinduism The Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center was established at Columbia University in 1994 with three primary goals: a) deepening and advancing research on Indic traditions of learning; b) addressing practical problems in the modern world, especially those that come within the purview of science and medicine; and c) advancing the causes of tolerance and interreligious understanding. Through academic research, educational workshops, publications, and outreach, the Hinduja Center seeks to foster an environment in which research scholars can pursue the contributions of Indic cultures to human civilization, while investigating how those contributions may advance solutions to problematic issues present in many of our cultures today, such as illness, violence, prejudice, and the decline of our environment. Much of the Center's research is channeled through its small working groups, which draw together scholars with shared concerns and enable them to advance their research collaboratively. Currently five working groups are actively pursuing research centered around the following concerns: * Ayurveda and Indic Traditions of Healthcare * Gender & Traditional Authority in Indic Religions * Indic Traditions of Conflict Management * The Exact Sciences in Indic Traditions * The Relevance of the Veda For more information about the Hinduja Center and its programs, contact: Nancy E. Braxton, Coordinator Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center Columbia University 1102 International Affairs Building New York, NY 10027 USA telephone: 212-854-5300 fax: 212-854-2802 email: dhirc at columbia.edu __________________________________________ From martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de Wed Jan 31 01:28:38 1996 From: martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de (F.J. Martinez Garcia) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 19:28:38 -0600 Subject: Confs.: 10. Fachtagung der Indogermanischen Gesellschaft Message-ID: <161227022478.23782.5684616512179867065.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/home/ftp/pub/ titus/public_html/curric/d-colloq.htm ------------------------------------------------- 10. Fachtagung der Indogermanischen Gesellschaft Innsbruck, 22. - 28. September 1996 Die 10. Fachtagung der Indogermanischen Gesellschaft wird von Sonntag, 22. bis Samstag, 28. September 1996 in Innsbruck stattfinden. Sie wird ausgerichtet vom Institut fuer Sprachwissenschaft der Universitaet Innsbruck. Die Fachtagung der Indogermanischen Gesellschaft kehrt somit nach einer Periode von 35 Jahren nach Innsbruck zurueck, wo sie 1961 bereits abgehalten wurde, als 2. Fachtagung der im Jahre 1953 wiederbegruendeten Indogermanischen Gesellschaft. Die grossen Fachtagungen der Indogermanischen Gesellschaft haben immer bedeutende Themen zum Gegenstand gehabt, in denen sich die jeweilige Forschungssituation spiegelte, und sie waren oft methodisch richtungsweisend fuer die weitere Entwicklung des Faches. Bei dem Neben- und zum Teil Gegeneinander verschiedener Denkrichtungen kommt der (in unserem Fach mancherseits fuer unwichtig erachteten) Methodendiskussion weiterhin grosses Gewicht zu. Nachdem die beiden letzten Fachtagungen den methodisch so wichtigen Problemen der Relativen Chronologie und der zeitlichen Differenzierung der Indogermanischen Grundsprache gewidmet waren, diese Probleme aber bei weitem nicht erschoepfend behandelt werden konnten, sollen sie jetzt noch einmal zur Diskussion gestellt werden, wobei auch der reale Hintergrund, die Sprecher jener Grundsprache(n), ihre mutmasslichen Wohnsitze und Ausbreitungen, ihre materielle und geistige Kultur in den Blickpunkt kommen sollen. Da diese besonders interessierenden Fragen nach Ort(en) und Zeit(en) der Grundsprache(n) und der Kultur ihrer Sprecher mit linguistischen Argumenten allein nicht befriedigend beantwortet werden koennen, stellt sich hier im besonderen die Frage nach den Moeglichkeiten, die erkenntnistheoretischen Beschraenkungen zu ueberwinden, gegebenenfalls durch gegenseitige Erhellung im Zusammenspiel interdisziplinaerer Forschung. Die 10. Fachtagung soll in diesem Sinn unter folgendem (zwangslaeufig vereinfacht formulierten) Thema stehen: SPRACHE UND KULTUR DER INDOGERMANEN Die wichtigeren Aspekte dieses Themas sollen in Hauptreferaten angesprochen werden. Ergaenzend dazu kann in Kurzvortraegen das ganze Spektrum der verschiedenen Einzelprobleme behandelt werden, soweit sie in diesen Rahmen fallen und fuer das Hauptthema in seinem oben umrissenden Sinn relevant sind. Somit erlaube ich mir, alle Mitglieder und sonstigen Interessenten zur 10. Fachtagung der Indogermanischen Gesellschaft einzuladen und bitte zugleich um Anmeldung von Kurzvortraegen (Dauer 20 min. + 10 min. Diskussion). Bitte benutzen Sie das beiliegende Anmeldeformular. Ein zweites Rundschreiben wird im Fruehsommer 1996 ergehen, welches alle relevanten Informationen sowie einen Ueberblick ueber die zu erwartenden Vortraege enthalten wird. Das endgueltige Programm wird kurz vor Beginn der Tagung vorliegen. In der Hoffnung, moeglichst viele Teilnehmer in Innsbruck begruessen zu koennen, verbleibe ich mit besten Gruessen Wolfgang Meid Vorsitzender der Indogermanischen Gesellschaft -------------------------- 10. Fachtagung der Indogermanischen Gesellschaft Innsbruck, 22. - 28. September 1996 ANMELDUNG Ich melde mich hiermit zur 10. Fachtagung der Indogermanischen Gesellschaft, 22. - 28. Sept. 1996 in Innsbruck, an. Ich melde ein Kurzreferat zu folgendem Thema an: Gegebenenfalls kurze Erlaeuterung zum Thema, falls Inhalt nicht zweifelsfrei aus dem Titel hervorgeht: Unterschrift, Name und vollstaendige Adresse: Bitte einsenden an: 10. Fachtagung fuer Indogermanische Sprachwissenschaft Organisationskommittee Institut fuer Sprachwissenschaft der Universitaet Innsbruck Innrain 52 A-6020 Innsbruck =================================================================== Dr. Fco. Javier Mart!nez Garc!a Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft | tel. +49- 69- 7982 2847 Universitt Frankfurt | (sekr.) +49- 69- 7982 3139 Postfach 11 19 32 | fax. +49- 69- 7982 2873 D-60054 Frankfurt | martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.de http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/home/ftp/pub/titus/public_html =================================================================== From pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu Wed Jan 31 03:37:55 1996 From: pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Peter Gaeffke) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 22:37:55 -0500 Subject: collyrium stick// Guru Gita vs. 34 Message-ID: <161227022482.23782.17581341620331193041.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dr. Kellner Tulsidas (1532-1608?) in his Ramacaratimasa writes (1.6) "When a student or an experienced master of magic put a potent magic ointment (suanjana) in his eye, the see sees a marvelous spectacle: numerous treasures hidden in mountains, forests, and in the earth" Nusrati (17th ct.) writes in his Gulshan-i 'ishq (1033) When you show me the way and I can find this magic eye ointment (anjan), then in my eyes this treasure will appear" said about a dervish who is difficult to find. In these mathnawis there appears also forest called Kajali about which I have written in JAOS 109, p.529 Sincerely Peter Gaeffke Philadelphia From magier at columbia.edu Wed Jan 31 14:24:48 1996 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:24:48 -0500 Subject: WHOSE VEDA (correction) Message-ID: <161227022486.23782.6450915161241047904.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The organizers of the symposium entitled "WHOSE VEDA?" (February 16-18 at University of Florida, Gainesville), which was announced to your listserv yesterday, have asked me to forward the following correction of a typo. Please contact event organizers directly for further information. David Magier, South Asia Gopher =========================== CORRECTION: the contact information for Professor Vasudha Narayanan (the organizer of the Symposium entitled "WHOSE VEDA?") was listed incorrectly due to a typo in the earlier announcement. Professor Narayanan's correct contact information (including the proper email addresses) is as follows: Professor Vasudha Narayanan Dept. of Religion University of Florida Gainesville, Flordia USA ph: 904-392-1625 email: vasu at clas.ufl.edu or vasu at religion.ufl.edu From jlc at ccr.jussieu.fr Wed Jan 31 09:19:24 1996 From: jlc at ccr.jussieu.fr (jlc at ccr.jussieu.fr) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 10:19:24 +0100 Subject: Commentary on Tevaram Message-ID: <161227022484.23782.8322885858573695651.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Jan, I believe you are familiar with the edition made by the French Institute of Pondicherry PIFI 68-1 [1984], 68-2 [1985], 68-3 [1991]. Although it is not an edition with commentary, it splits the text into words, which allows Prof. Gros to say in his introduction: "Our edition is intended to be an aid to reading and understanding it and the considerable effort involved in this version, that is to say, besides the introduction of ponctuation, the significant use of spaces between words and of the hiatus, represents a more economical equivalent to a continuous commentary on each verse." I believe you are also familiar with the english translations (which I mention for other people's sake) of considerable parts of Teevaaram by 1. Indira V. Peterson, _Poems to S'iva, The Hymns of the Tamil saints_, Original edition: 1989; Princeton Indian edition: 1991; Motilal Banarsidass 2. David D. Shulman _Songs of the harsh devotee, The Teevaaram of Cuntaramuurtinaayan_aar_ 1990, University of Pennsylvania When it comes to commented editions, I can mention the Dharmapura Aadinam edition which seems to cover all the Tirumur_ai (I only have the volumes for the 4th [1957] and the 9th [1969]). But may be someone else can add more information Best wishes - Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Universite' Paris7) >Dear friends, > >Can anyone of you recommend me a commented edition of TEVARAM? I would >rather have a word-to-word commentary, but a "translation" into Tamil would >be also welcome. > > | Mr. Jan Dvorak, M.A > | Czech Republic > | E-mail: dvorakj at dec59.ruk.cuni.cz >?From D.Wujastyk at wellcome.ac.uk 31 96 Jan EST 12:42:00 Date: 31 Jan 96 12:42:00 EST From: D.Wujastyk at wellcome.ac.uk Subject: fwd: 19th century Pali scholar Reply-To: D.Wujastyk at wellcome.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A colleague of mine has the appended query. Replies to c.hilton at wellcome.ac.uk, or to me at d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk. Many thanks, Dominik Wujastyk -- NB For the foreseeable future, please address email to d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk, not to d.wujastyk at wellcome.ac.uk. ------------- Original Text To: Wujastyk Dr Dominik I'm trying to identify the author of a letter in a little collection currently being catalogued. The date is 1881, place of address Colombo and the signature looks like "W. Sulehuti"; a later owner of the letter has commented underneath "Buddhist monk, best Pali scholar in Ceylon". It would be nice to be sure that I've read the signature correctly - does that name or a variant thereof ring any bells with you? Thanks, Chris From jdwhite at unccvm.uncc.edu Wed Jan 31 16:29:59 1996 From: jdwhite at unccvm.uncc.edu (jdwhite at unccvm.uncc.edu) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 11:29:59 -0500 Subject: Film on Holi Message-ID: <161227022490.23782.10870119964294288341.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To Members of the List: A former student of mine now in graduate studies in folklore at another institution has asked me if I know of any films on the Holi festival. She wishes to do a comparative-ritual study of festivals that both have a sacred theme and involve the character of social chaos (at least temporarily). If anyone knows of any visual materials on Holi, please let me know. Thanks! Dan White From fsmith at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Wed Jan 31 17:47:45 1996 From: fsmith at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (F. Smith) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 11:47:45 -0600 Subject: Film on Holi Message-ID: <161227022495.23782.15758331254513764029.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Yes, I know of a very good film on Holi in Braj. This was filmed and put together by Michael Duffy, a British filmmaker who has been living for a number of years in Vrindaban. Though the film is really wonderful and captures the flavor of Holi, it suffers from one defect: there are a few places where interviews are not translated or dubbed from Hindi to English. Nevertheless, in its current state it is well worth viewing. Contact: Michael Duffy, Sri Caitanya Prema Samsthana, Gambhira / Jai Singh Ghera, Vrindaban 282 121, Dist: Mathura, U.P., India. Tel: 91-565-442087, fax (during the irregular hours when the electricity is fully working) 91-565-442216. Price: $200. Fred Smith School of Religion / Dept. of Asian Lang. & Lit. University of Iowa On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, J. Daniel White wrote: > To Members of the List: > > A former student of mine now in graduate studies in folklore at another > institution has asked me if I know of any films on the Holi festival. She > wishes to do a comparative-ritual study of festivals that both have a sacred > theme and involve the character of social chaos (at least temporarily). If > anyone knows of any visual materials on Holi, please let me know. > > Thanks! > > Dan White > > From bhatcher at titan.iwu.edu Wed Jan 31 20:47:15 1996 From: bhatcher at titan.iwu.edu (B. Hatcher) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 14:47:15 -0600 Subject: Conference on Philosophy Message-ID: <161227022497.23782.8391229986351332735.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Members of the list might be interested in the following announcement, which was forwarded to me by a colleague. Brian Hatcher Dept. of Religion Illinois Wesleyan University Bloomington, IL 61702-2900 **************************************************************************** International Conference in India Call for Papers The Society for Indian Philosophy and Religion will conduct a four-day conference, "Relativism: Science, Religion and Philosophy", to be held in Calcutta, India on August 1-4, 1997. The organizers invite proposals for individual papers, panels, workshops, and round-table discussions. This conference represents an opportunity for scholars in the U.S. and India to explore together a set of issues that are of some significance to both communities. It will examine ways in which concerns that are currently widespread in the West over relativism and scientific knowledge may be anticipated in classical Indian philosophy and religion, and ways in which contemporary Indian culture is responsive to such concerns. While the principal focus of the conference will be on the fields of philosophy and religion, the organizers recognize that the topic demands a wide variety of disciplinary approaches, and welcome contributions from the full array of human sciences. Proposals for papers, panels, workshops, and round-table discussions should include an abstract of 150-200 words, and be submitted by April 15, 1996 to: Dr. Chandana Chakrabarti CB 2336 Elon College Elon College, NC 27244 USA The organizers are also interested in developing ways for scholars in India and the U.S. to participate in future joint activities and programs. Dr. Chakrabarti will work with individuals and groups in making concrete plans for their visits. From mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk Wed Jan 31 16:45:03 1996 From: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 16:45:03 +0000 Subject: fwd: 19th century Pali scholar Message-ID: <161227022493.23782.17200447540208451586.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >A colleague of mine has the appended query. Replies to >c.hilton at wellcome.ac.uk, or to me at d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk. > >Many thanks, >Dominik Wujastyk > >I'm trying to identify the author of a letter in a little collection >currently being catalogued. The date is 1881, place of address Colombo and >the signature looks like "W. Sulehuti"; a later owner of the letter has >commented underneath "Buddhist monk, best Pali scholar in Ceylon". It would >be nice to be sure that I've read the signature correctly - does that name >or a variant thereof ring any bells with you? Could this be Waskaduwe Subhuti, a scholar monk who is mentioned in early issues of the Journal of the Pali Text Society ? Lance Cousins MANCHESTER, UK Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk From raphael at wavefront.com Wed Jan 31 23:24:21 1996 From: raphael at wavefront.com (Raphael Carter) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 17:24:21 -0600 Subject: (Fwd) CNN's Mistake Message-ID: <161227022499.23782.4145675704357126076.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Forwarded message: From: Anuj=Kumar=Jain%MIS%HCLA at Narada.hcla.com Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 12:47:35 PST Subject: CNN's Mistake To: jain-list at wavefront.com Hello everybody, Recently CNN has wrongly shown Jammu and Kashmir as part of Pakistan in one of their news item. The details are given at the end. I am aware that this list is for discussions on Jainism. But I am assuming that most of the people are Indians here. I hope you don't mind. I sincerely apologise to anybody who does not like my sending this message on this list. I am sorry but I had to do it. To everybody who feel they are true INDIANS. > > CNN today showed a MAP of INDIA where they have showed > > JAMMU and KASHMIR as a Part Of Pakistan. To see that > > map > > 1) Go To CNN site http://www.cnn.com > > 2) Select World News > > 3) Select following headline > > "Pakistan, India reportedly exchange gunfire" > > 4) Select "Info About Pakistan" header at the bottom Of the > Article. > > > We should protest such a things by sending e-mails to CNN and > asking them how they can show such a MAP. As a true INDIAN it's > everybody's duty to protest such a things. Forward this message to > > as many people as possible. > > > Here is the address of CNN. Send a mail to this address... > > "cnn.feedback at cnn.com" > Anuj From kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp Wed Jan 31 15:17:08 1996 From: kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (Birgit Kellner) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 96 00:17:08 +0900 Subject: Sandhi-conventions for critical editions Message-ID: <161227022488.23782.5857208701119553784.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would like to have as many opinions as possible on Sandhi-conventions in critical editions of Sanskrit texts, especially on what to do with nasals (sounds like the title a "teach yourself"-volume: "What to do with nasals: Ten steps to nasal perfection":)). The manuscript I am currently using, for example, generally (i.e. in the overwhelming majority of cases) assimilates nasals in pausa, when the following word starts with ca, ta or va (i.e. ki~n ca, kin tu, kim vaa). It also sometimes writes ma in pausa, when the following word begins with bha, ba or na, but never with any other consonants. Is one supposed to replace ma at the end of a word, just as the scribe seems to have done, by the homorganic nasal (although he does not follow this policy throughout the text), is one supposed to carry out this replacement only within compounds? In either case, why?