WHOSE VEDA? - Bhaashya

[witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU]

``WHOSE VEDA`` or :  WHAT VEDA?       -- some comments :
================================


ONLY FOR THOSE WHOSE ATTENTION SPAN CAN BEAR IT,  read on!

 My ad hoc comments in  << >>.
 
 


PuurvapakSa:
THE VEDAS, which include the Samhita, Brahmana, Aranyaka, and Upanisad 
sections of the Rig, Sama, Atharva, and Yajur collections have functioned 
both as revelation and as manuals of ritual for the many Hindu 
traditions. 

<< TippaNI:  G.I.: we can quibble : Rk, saaman, yajuS, 
aatharva-<-aaGgirasa->-- a ``Yajur``  does not exist, -- so far, in 
Sanskrit >> 

<< uttarapakSa:
There simply is no manual of ritual to be found in the ENTIRE Samhita, 
Brahmana, Aranyaka and Upanisad sections of the Veda --- with the 
possible exception of a rather brief Mahaavrata chapter in KA).  The 
`manuals` are found in the Sutras, which the working group do not even 
include among the Vedic texts at all, following the traditional medieval 
perception of Smrti and Sruti-- but they call it ``5th Veda!`` Where is 
*that* done  in Hindu texts?? -- It is time to break through this veil of 
post-Vedic Maayaa, finally; see below >>  

PuurvapakSa: Notions of the unchanging, immutable, eternal sound of the
Vedas have coexisted with a pattern of dynamic interpretation whereby the
perceived meaning of the Veda has been made accessible and fitting to the
changing times and places.  While some sections of the Vedic texts and
injunctions have been recited and acted upon without major changes for at
least the last two thousand years, the process of understanding and
decoding the Vedas has not been static. 

<< TippaNI: eternal sound::   of course, only if recited correctly! --The 
Vedic Suktas, Brahmanas etc.   do not exist somewhere in outer space,  at 
least not until recently... That is a medieval, half-Tantric notion again...>> 

<< uttarapakSa: 
perceived meaning:   by whom?? the Mimamsaka? The Vedic commentaries by 
Brahmins for Brahmins are much later and do not affect `people`>>
<<texts and injunctions:  which injunctions? the Brahmanas do not contain 
``injunctions``, that is a Mimamsa idea again; injunctions are found in 
the `Smrti`  -- in the Vedic Sutras only, though usually not voiced in 
the optative but mostly in the 3rd sing. present tense...-- and that is, 
and we cannot talk it away,  a male 3rd sing.  --  the  ``Gender & 
Traditional Authority group`` should take notice...  >> 

PuurvapakSa:
While the Vedas themselves assert the force of a "unifying" truth 
underlying the hymns and the philosophical speculation,  this truth has 
been interpreted in a manner that was fitting and applicable to any given 
generation. 

<<uttarapakSa: 
 "unifying" truth underlying the hymns and the philosophical 
speculation:  where do they do that? That is a Mimamsa and especially an 
Uttaramimamsa idea only!-- Unless they think of Rta in the RV -- and this 
applies, largely, to the RV only. The Brahmanas and Upanisads are anything 
but based on a single ``unifying`` truth, on the contrary, they differ 
with each other every few  sentences or so, not only about the approaches 
to  ``truth`` but also about its nature  ... >>
<<any generation:: Examples would be appreciated. This process is rather 
incidental and stumbling, with fits and starts divided by centuries. 
Certainly not : ``each generation`` at all.>>

PuurvapakSa:
The process of interpretation and making the message relevant to any 
generation has been at the heart of Vedic hermeneutics making the message 
relevant to any generation has been at the heart of Vedic hermeneutics. 

<<TippaNI: If they think of Yaska and some early commentators, ok.  But 
we have only a few examples before the middle ages. >>  

PuurvapakSa:
Despite the composition of several works which have been more popular 
among the masses than the Vedic revelation, the theoretical, ritual, and 
epistemological significance of the Vedas has been unquestioned. 

<< uttarapakSa: 
Really, what about Buddhists, Carvakas, Jains, Virasaivas etc . etc.? 
This follows, again,  the traditional Hindu  view but in an  even more 
limited way than that of the Sarvadarsana-Samgraha>> 

PuurvapakSa:
Thus, the highest honor given to a religious text which was important to 
any  religious tradition was to call that work the "fifth Veda."  

<< uttarapakSa: 
any tradition ? even any Hindu trad.?? --  this reads like B.K. Smith`s 
4R book -- what about the Virasaiva, or Bhakti, or Kashmirian Sivaism??>>
<<5th Veda:  examples appreciated. Where is one`s own tradition REALLY 
called the ``pancama`` veda? I have the impression that this term largely 
functions as catch-all device for the ``working group``>>

PuurvapakSa:
In the last two thousand years several such texts have claimed this 
title.  The fifth Veda comprehends questions of legitimacy, legacy and 
spiritual authenticity.  Many injunctive (ritual) , mythological 
(Itihasa-Purana), scientific, devotional and even biographical texts 
proclaim themselves to be the fifth Veda, breaking through the 
traditional distinction between sruti and smrti. 

<< uttarapakSa: 
injunctive (ritual) :: which one ?? This seeems to be the Hinduja Inst. 
misunderstanding of the Srauta and other Vedic Sutras: the ritual  texts, 
the Vedic Sutras were NOT conceived as Smrti by the Vedic texts 
themselves, check also Panini. They were called, even in Sruti texts,  
``kalpa`` on one level with the Brahmanas and the Mantra/verses, Rk, -- 
see Katha B.  The distinction between Sruti and Smrti again is a later 
innovation/invention of Hindu tradition. The working group repeats all 
the standard medieval and modern pre-conceptions without really knowing 
what they are talking about -- the Vedas >>
  
PuurvapakSa:
The key to breaking through the categories of sruti and smrti is the 
public recognition of the authenticity and authority of certain texts. 
For example, Bharata Muni, author of the Natya Sastra, the primary text 
on the theory and practice of drama, relies on the unprecedented nature 
of his enterprise to bring it into the orbit of primary text on the theory 
and practice of drama, relies on the "Veda." 

<< TippaNI: the author Bh. muni??  how do they know that ? Bharata Muni 
has no more claim to be the author than Vyasa as the author/redactor of 
the Vedas/Epic/Puranas>>

PuurvapakSa:
But Natya Sastra does not take this identification lightly or simply 
analogically, but pleads its case by illustrating that the Vedas 
themselves fall under the purview of natya.  The Puranas employ several 
arguments in order to prove their identity as Veda. One is that they are 
infallible because the supreme Lord is the very embodiment of the Veda.  
The Mahabharata, one of the two major Hindu epics, was consistently 
called the "fifth Veda"  because it was a storehouse of religious and 
secular knowledge, both theoretical and pragmatic. 

<<TippaNI: Mbh as 5th Veda:: since when ? the redaction at c. 500 AD, or 
earlier? >> 

PuurvapakSa:
Vernacular compositions in the south, especially the Tiruvaymoli ("Sacred 
Utterances") of Nammalvar in the ninth century and the Periya Puranam, a 
hagiography of saints who were devotees of Siva, were also considered to 
be equivalent to the Vedas.
In the Kashmir Saiva tradition several agamic texts functioned as the 
Veda. 

<< uttarapakSa: 
as the Veda?? No, they are *superior* to the Veda ...>>  

PuurvapakSa: These texts did not make even a cursory attempt to imitate or
reproduce the Sanskrit Vedas in any way, refer to ritual nor were they
commentaries on the Veda. 

<<uttarapakSa: 
That is why we have the enigmatic Siva Sutras??? -- Also, even Georg 
Buehler, during his brief visit to Kashmir in 1875 noticed that the 
Kashmirian  Shivaite rituals `copy` Vedic ones.  My Kashmiri handbooks 
regularly give quite similar Vedic and Shivaite rituals side by side and 
call them Vaidika and Tantrika ...!>> 

PuurvapakSa:
These texts did not make even a cursory attempt to imitate or reproduce 
the Sanskrit Vedas in any way, nor were they commentaries on the Vedic 
texts.  

<< uttarapakSa: 
of course, they *do*, see above; frequently they even use Vedic mantras!!>>

PuurvapakSa:
They lay claim to the title "Veda" because the people who venerated these 
works thought of them as containing the wisdom embodied in the original 
Sanskrit Vedas. 

<< uttarapakSa: 
Often, rather, superseding that of the Vedas!!>>  

PuurvapakSa:
The concept of a fifth Veda expresses the desire for any given community 
to negotiate the meaning of sruti and mediate it to their milieu.

<< uttarapakSa: 
Aho, bata! That is a real insight! How else do you latch on, if you want 
to do so,  to a given, in case the Vedic/Hindu tradition? Certainly not 
by inventing something new and CALLING it NEW, 
non-/a-/contra-traditional, etc. >>

PuurvapakSa:
It is not just within the Hindu tradition that the Veda of "Truth" is 
important. Both Christians and Muslims in South India have appropriated 
the notion of "Veda" and consider their scriptures to be revelation.  The 
Veda is the vehicle to know the supreme, and in this sense both the Bible 
and the Qur'an function as the "Veda."

<< TippaNI: Well, since Veda means `knowledge` -- so why  not any 
scientific or other treatise?? The Ezourvedam...That would have been 
worth mentioning... Or,  from the Garbhopanisad (not mentioned) to a 
Malla-Purana ... unfortunately not yet a Malla-Veda,  and to the recent 
`discovery` of  `Vedic mathematics` in ONE manuscript (since, vanished!), 
allegedly forming an appendix to the 72 appendixes (Aatharva 
PariziSTaani) of the Atharvaveda...>> 

PuurvapakSa:
These are just some of the ways in which post-Vedic texts and traditions 
appropriated the authority and authenticity of the Vedas. This is not to 
say that the Vedic "tradition" suffered serious rupture, for this 
extension is surely a natural result of a dynamic religious and literary 
tradition that encouraged innovation while not losing sight of its 
extension is surely a natural result of a dynamic religious and literary 
tradition that encouraged innovation while not losing sight of its origins.

<<uttarapakSa: 
serious rupture::  they forget about the cases where this `rupture`  is 
intentionally and well mediated in the late Vedic texts themselves, see 
some Taittiriya Grhyasutras -- S.Einoo, forthc. in IIJ -- and cf. 
especially the Vaikhanasa  -- Harvard diss. work  by H. Resnick-- >> 
<<encouraged innovation:  encouraged?  only as described just now; in 
addition take a look at the various modern Grhya rituals such as marriage 
which mix Vedic, Puranic, Tantrik and local features... That would have 
been a perfect textual/audio-visual example, long published: see 
Agnihotra rituals in Nepal, and Buddhist homas, etc. etc.>> 

<< TippaNI: lit. trad. *encouraged* innovation: ???  where?? and by 
whom?? I am eager to learn... perhaps in the rather limited sense of 
writing another  - Sanskrit(!) -- commentary (for whom?) on a certain 
topic, yes.>>

PuurvapakSa:
In other words: How does an understanding of Veda in its different 
contexts lead us to a better understanding of these religious communities 
... 


SIDDHAANTA:

<<  IN SHORT:  
What about first trying to understand what the Veda is and what it has to 
say --  before comparing its empty shell or emblem, its gandharvanagara, 
in the fashion critiqued above, to other traditions??  ----- Not to speak 
of the still endless task of properly editing for the first time / 
re-editing badly published Vedic texts, translating *un*-translated Vedic 
texts and studying the many untouched Vedic texts, recitations, rituals  
-- and the latter means hard field work, not ivory tower pralaapa... 
sorry, ``discourse``... thus: 

graamaM/(vaidika)guruM/(hastalikhitam)pustakaM gaccha,  ziSya,  --- alaM
vizavidyaalaya-pralaapena!

// iti vaartam //




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            durjanasya ca sarpasya varam sarpo na durjanah |

            sarpo dazati kaalena durjanas tu pade-pade    ||


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Michael Witzel                              Department of Sanskrit
Wales Professor of Sanskrit                 and Indian Studies
Harvard University 

witzel at husc3.harvard.edu