From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Apr 1 15:18:42 1996 From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (RAH) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 09:18:42 -0600 Subject: nA.tyasya mAtara.h Message-ID: <161227023628.23782.15757258884451756804.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> (I should have known better. One should always read the text all the way through before asking questions in public.) The mothers, not only of nA.tya but of all kAvya, are four -- bhAratI sAttvatI Arabha.tI and kai"sikI -- according to NS 18.4. These are the v.rtti-s. The verse reads: sarve.sAm eva kAvyAnAm mAt.rkA v.rttaya.h sm.rtA.h The mothers cannot be SarasvatI, etc. because in the worship of the various pillars of the playhouse, those deities are to be worshipped elsewhere than the mothers. This, of course, all being according to the NS. Maybe other texts do it differently. I was only concerned with the meaning in the NS. gotta run, Bob Hueckstedt Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/asian_studies fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797 From magier at columbia.edu Mon Apr 1 15:17:01 1996 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 10:17:01 -0500 Subject: fugitive book? Message-ID: <161227023623.23782.1914390758780656246.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have a library client who is desperately seeking a book cited by Dilip Chakravarti (in his review of Parpola's "Deciphering the Indus Script", in the JRAS third series, vol 5, pt. 3 p. 430) as: The Aryan Problem ed. by S.B.Deo and S. Kamath, Pune 1993 Has anyone seen this book anywhere? I find no mention of it in any of the standard bibliographic utilities, and cannot attempt to order a copy without more detailed bibliographic information (e.g. publisher). Advice anyone? Many thanks. David Magier From mmdesh at umich.edu Mon Apr 1 16:13:25 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 11:13:25 -0500 Subject: fugitive book? Message-ID: <161227023625.23782.15241169797013311088.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have a copy of this book. I do not have it here with me in my office, but I will locate it at home and provide the bibliographic details. Madhav Deshpande On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, David Magier wrote: > I have a library client who is desperately seeking a book cited by > Dilip Chakravarti (in his review of Parpola's "Deciphering the Indus > Script", in the JRAS third series, vol 5, pt. 3 p. 430) as: > > The Aryan Problem ed. by S.B.Deo and S. Kamath, Pune 1993 > > Has anyone seen this book anywhere? I find no mention of it in any of > the standard bibliographic utilities, and cannot attempt to order a > copy without more detailed bibliographic information (e.g. publisher). > Advice anyone? > > Many thanks. > David Magier > > From mmdesh at umich.edu Mon Apr 1 18:35:23 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 13:35:23 -0500 Subject: fugitive book? Message-ID: <161227023630.23782.14990525982603021365.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear David, Here are the bibliographic details for this publication: The Aryan Problem, [Papers presented at the Seminar on The Aryan Problem held at Bangalore in July 1991] Organized by The Mythic Society, Bangalore, and The Bharatiya Itihasa Sankalana Samiti, Pune Edited by S.B. Deo and Suryanath Kamath Published in 1993 by Dr. C.N. Parchure, Secretary, Bharatiya Itihasa Sankalana Samiti, Maharashtra, 528/C Shaniwar Peth, Pune 411 030 If you need any more details about the volume, let me know. It is sitting right in front of me. All the best, Madhav Deshpande On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, David Magier wrote: > I have a library client who is desperately seeking a book cited by > Dilip Chakravarti (in his review of Parpola's "Deciphering the Indus > Script", in the JRAS third series, vol 5, pt. 3 p. 430) as: > > The Aryan Problem ed. by S.B.Deo and S. Kamath, Pune 1993 > > Has anyone seen this book anywhere? I find no mention of it in any of > the standard bibliographic utilities, and cannot attempt to order a > copy without more detailed bibliographic information (e.g. publisher). > Advice anyone? > > Many thanks. > David Magier > > From r.l.schmidt at easteur-orient.uio.no Mon Apr 1 11:54:19 1996 From: r.l.schmidt at easteur-orient.uio.no (r.l.schmidt at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 13:54:19 +0200 Subject: Urdu font for Mac Message-ID: <161227023619.23782.6209517494934958721.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indology, Does anyone use an Urdu font (nastaliq or naskh) on the Macintosh, which they would recommend? I have tried various available fonts, but have trouble getting all the characters, especially do-caSmii-he in final position. Thank you, Ruth Schmidt Dept of East European and Oriental Studies University of Oslo P.O. Box 1030 Blindern N-0315 Oslo, Norway Phone: (47) 22 85 55 86 Fax: (47) 22 85 41 40 Email: r.l.schmidt at easteur-orient.uio.no From magier at columbia.edu Mon Apr 1 21:23:24 1996 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 16:23:24 -0500 Subject: fugitive book? Message-ID: <161227023633.23782.17966947476273584243.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Madhav, thanks for the full citation. David From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Mon Apr 1 18:13:22 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 18:13:22 +0000 Subject: Siri Boovalaya.. Message-ID: <161227023621.23782.17231259923624731122.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The title of this Kannada work is not Siri Boovalaya but Siribhuuvalaya. The author of this work is Kumudendu, a Jaina writer (circa 800 AD). The date is debatable. Some scholars attribute it to a later date. It is said in this work that the author is the disciple of Jinasenaacaarya and the Guru of Amoghavarsha Nripatunga. It is written in a typical Kannada prosody called Sangatya. For a little more information, see on page 57 of 'Samagra Kannada Sahitya Charitre' Vol 1 edited by Dr G S Shivarudrappa, published by the Department of Publications & Extension Lectures, Bangalore University, Bangalore - 560 056, Karnataka, India. Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032 India Tel: +91-80-3430017 +91-80-3332759 Fax: +91-80-3334541 E-mail: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in ---------- From: Robert Zydenbos[SMTP:zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl] Sent: Sunday, 31 March, 1996 4:53 AM To: Members of the list Subject: Siri Boovalaya.. dns> From: dmenon at pacific.net.sg (Das Menon) dns> Subject: Siri Boovalaya.. dns> Does anyone have information on the Kannada work 'Siri dns> Boovalaya'. Any dns> information is most appreciated. Unfortunately I will be here in the Netherlands for the next two months, and not at home in Mysore, where I have a copy of the book (part one; the work has not yet been published in its entirety, to my knowledge). I have not read it completely yet, but there is a lot of hazy mystique (and anecdotes that sound like horror stories) about it. To begin with, it is not only in Kannada: it is a kind of citrakavya, and if you run through the text in different directions, you get verses in Telugu and Sanskrit too. The weirder side of it is that according to some, the text contains formulae for making gold out of base metals. Of course I'm in no position whatsoever to make any comment on that. Robert Zydenbos.- +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | RBBS Flevoland Internet Gateway | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | RBBS Flevoland, Almere-Stad, The Netherlands +31-36-5363720 ZyXEL 19k2 | | fax +31-36-5363720 +31-36-5367160 V34+ 33k6 | | Member of Team-OS/2, 7 cdrom's online +31-36-5360688 ISDNC 64k0 | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment.bin Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2864 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mgansten at sbbs.se Mon Apr 1 20:29:11 1996 From: mgansten at sbbs.se (mgansten at sbbs.se) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 22:29:11 +0200 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023632.23782.3655014676726210905.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone out there know a good reference work describing how scholarly debate?used to be carried out in medieval India -- e.g., scholars going out on their digvijaya tours, etc.? Thanks in advance. Martin Gansten mgansten at sbbs.se From zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl Tue Apr 2 03:24:52 1996 From: zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl (zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 02:24:52 -0100 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023637.23782.13291560885223695173.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Replies to msg 01 Apr 96: indology at liverpool.ac.uk (mgansten at sbbs.se) ms> Subject: Debates ms> Does anyone out there know a good reference work describing ms> how scholarly ms> debate=A0used to be carried out in medieval India -- e.g., ms> scholars going= ms> out ms> on their digvijaya tours, etc.? Thanks in advance. I'm happy to see that someone else out there is interested in these things, since I have begun studying this topic myself (particularly the varieties of debate, and the rules governing them). But I am using Sanskrit materials from Karnataka; I don't know of any secondary literature, so I too would be interested if someone knows of any. Regards, Robert Zydenbos Internet: zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | RBBS Flevoland Internet Gateway | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | RBBS Flevoland, Almere-Stad, The Netherlands +31-36-5363720 ZyXEL 19k2 | | fax +31-36-5363720 +31-36-5367160 V34+ 33k6 | | Member of Team-OS/2, 7 cdrom's online +31-36-5360688 ISDNC 64k0 | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From Sfauthor at aol.com Tue Apr 2 21:17:47 1996 From: Sfauthor at aol.com (Sfauthor at aol.com) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 16:17:47 -0500 Subject: Fonts/Apple, Adobe and Netscape Message-ID: <161227023635.23782.12545778197303980896.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I ran across this the other day. Of course, it will be some time before we hold the phal in our hands. . . ------------------------------ The following JOINT release was moved over the wire by Adobe on Monday, February 26, 1996. Adobe, Apple and Netscape to Collaborate on New Internet Font Technology Collaboration to Establish the Standard For High-Quality, High-Performance Fonts on the Web; Companies to Submit Proposal to Industry Standards Organizations MOUNTAIN VIEW, California--February 26, 1996--Adobe Systems Incorporated, Apple Computer, Inc., and Netscape Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: ADBE, AAPL, NSCP) today announced that they will work together to define and deliver HTML extensions for type on the Web. The three companies expect to provide an open, cross-platform technology solution for using Type 1 and TrueType fonts in HTML and PDF documents. This new Web font technology marks a significant advance in the visual appeal of Internet information. People viewing information on the Internet will benefit from a rich font assortment on a page with excellent performance. People creating information for the Web will be able to choose from numerous fonts and ensure that users see their pages as they were originally intended to be seen. With Adobe's long-standing leadership in developing digital type, Netscape's leadership in open Internet software, and Apple's font expertise as the inventors of TrueType, users will benefit from: --Anti-aliased type for higher screen quality for both large and small type sizes --Embedded, compressed fonts for fast performance over 14.4 kilobit/second modem connections and font fidelity --Progressively rendered fonts which enable the screen to display text immediately --Font subsetting which improves performance because only the characters needed will be downloaded. This new Web font technology exploits technology already under development as part of Adobe's Acrobat "Amber" Plug-in for Netscape Navigator. The new font technology will be supported in the next version of "Amber," and later this year in Netscape Navigator client software. Apple bundles Adobe Acrobat and Netscape Navigator with the Apple Internet Connection Kit and the Apple Internet Server Solution. The companies plan a submission of this technology to the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) and Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) as a proposed extension to HTML. The new Web font technology will be usable by style sheet designs such as the one the W3C is developing for HTML 3.0. "This new Web font technology adds dramatic new dimensions to the Internet experience enabling Netscape users to view and create pages with new richness," said Dr. James Clark, chairman and founder of Netscape. "This marks a collective effort by the industry to evolve type and content on the Internet and we are pleased to be collaborating with world leaders in font technology." "By working closely with Netscape and Apple, we intend to bring to the Internet the kind of visually compelling information users have come to expect in other media, such as print publications and CD-ROMs," said John Warnock, chairman and CEO of Adobe. "This effort marries well with Adobe's current strategy to make electronic publishing a graphically rich and rewarding experience for both authors and consumers." "Apple was involved in introducing to the market the two most pervasive font formats: Adobe's Type 1 and our own TrueType," said Dr. Gilbert Amelio, chairman and CEO of Apple. "Working with Netscape and Adobe, we intend to adapt these technologies to the World Wide Web, a medium which is growing rapidly in importance to the customers we serve. Apple's goal is to bring the ease of use and multimedia richness for which the Macintosh is known to the emerging Internet platform." From lusthaus at macalstr.edu Tue Apr 2 22:34:45 1996 From: lusthaus at macalstr.edu (lusthaus at macalstr.edu) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 16:34:45 -0600 Subject: Fonts/Apple, Adobe and Netscape Message-ID: <161227023638.23782.16644956395445115842.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Adobe, Apple and Netscape to Collaborate on New Internet Font Technology > >Collaboration to Establish the Standard For High-Quality, High-Performance >Fonts on the Web; Companies to Submit Proposal to Industry Standards >Organizations end-run around Unicode, which means that their standard would not necessarily include the fullest complement of diacritics (e.g., for Sanskrit and other Indian languages) nor non-roman fonts (e.g., CKJ, Arabic, Persian, Russian, etc.). If so, it'll still be some time before those become standard accessible fonts (as opposed to add on capabilities as is now possible for East Asian languages with Netscape). Has anyone heard differently? Dan Lusthaus Macalester College lusthaus at macalstr.edu From vidya at cco.caltech.edu Wed Apr 3 00:49:04 1996 From: vidya at cco.caltech.edu (vidya) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 16:49:04 -0800 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023646.23782.8550282941003645719.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In connection with scholarly debates, I would like to add that the various "digvijayas" tend to be hagiographical. For example, the mAdhavIya Sankara digvijaya has Sankara debating with abhinavagupta in Kashmir, and bhAskara, the bhedAbhedavAdin. Neither could have been contemporary with Sankara. On the other hand, Sankara's debate with maNDana miSra could very likely have happened in reality. Coming to more recent times, the nAyakas of kelaDi seem to have extended royal patronage to scholars of various schools and organized debates in their court. bhaTToji dIkshita and appayya dIkshita were among the notable scholars patronized by the kelaDi nAyakas. I'm sure there are records about the scholars at the kelaDi court in Karnataka and GOML, Madras. Vidyasankar From lusthaus at macalstr.edu Tue Apr 2 23:13:43 1996 From: lusthaus at macalstr.edu (lusthaus at macalstr.edu) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 17:13:43 -0600 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023640.23782.2143347636200251325.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > ms> Does anyone out there know a good reference work describing > ms> how scholarly > ms> debate=A0used to be carried out in medieval India -- e.g., > ms> scholars going= > ms> out > ms> on their digvijaya tours, etc.? Thanks in advance. > >I'm happy to see that someone else out there is interested in these things, >since I have begun studying this topic myself (particularly the varieties of >debate, and the rules governing them). But I am using Sanskrit materials from >Karnataka; I don't know of any secondary literature, so I too would be >interested if someone knows of any. > > >Regards, Robert Zydenbos I don't know of any sustained secondary sources on this, but in my work on Hsuan-tsang several types of debates occur: 1. Some "debates" seem to be relatively spontaneous -- advocates of different schools encounter each other and debate. One Saamkhyan challenged Hsuan-tsang to debate, the stakes being that the loser had to become the other's slave. Hsuan-tsang treated his slave kindly. 2. Some were organized by kings, and the various schools would select their champion debaters. The stakes might be that the loser had to pack up and move his school from the kingdom, or at the minimum, lose face. The winner won royal patronage. 3. Some occurred when someone, particularly incensed by someone else's position, would hunt him down and challenge him to a showdown. Sometimes the challenge was accepted, sometimes declined. 4. Within Naalandaa, there seems to have been continual debating between various Buddhist traditions (Madhyamakas, Yogaacaarins, etc.), and there are stories of Hindus and Jains infiltrating, by pretending to be Buddhist monks, in order to learn the secrets of Buddhist logic and debate. When discovered they are forced to flee for their lives (and some get snuffed). If such matters were subject to this sort of strict secrecy, the literary descriptions and remains might be understandably limited. 5. It is easier to reconstruct or trace the ideological lines (e.g., between "Slokavarttika and Tattvasamgraha, etc.) than it is to reconstruct when and where advocates actually met and under what conditions. Many of the stories that do come down to us are tinged with hagiographic flavors, extolling the oratorical and even magical genius of their hero. The royal or esteemed audiences present may also reflect hagiographic impulses to lend the stories greater importance and significance. In Tibetan accounts of Indian debates (e.g., in Taranatha, Bu-ston) one finds "debates" between opponents who lived centuries apart. Obviously the setting of such stories should not be taken any more literally as historical fact. This is an off-the-top-of-my-head typology. I, too, would be interested in any further references. Hsuan-tsang's travels are available in old translations, e.g., the ones by Beal or Watters. His biography was translated from the Chinese, entitled _The Life of Hsuan-tsang_, by a Mainland scholar (detailed bibliog. available on request). Dan Lusthaus Macalester College lusthaus at macalstr.edu From rsalomon at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 3 01:55:06 1996 From: rsalomon at u.washington.edu (Richard Salomon) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 17:55:06 -0800 Subject: Discoveries of Lumbini Message-ID: <161227023648.23782.5145132163195504716.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Some weeks ago (while I was out of the country), several newspapers apparently published an AP/Reuters story to the effect that "Archaeologists have discovered the birth chamber of Buddha under a temple in southwestern Nepal [i.e. at Lumbini], putting to rest an international debate..." The article that I have seen also mentions a "commemorative stone atop a platform of seven layers of bricks dating from the era of...Asoka." Does anyone have any additional reliable information on this supposed discovery? Was the "commemorative stone" inscribed? Is there any other good evidence that this discovery is in fact what it is being presented as? Or is it another Noah's Ark/Alexander's Tomb job? I couldn't help noticing that the story also noted that "Nepal...plans to turn Lumbini into a major tourist attraction." Richard Salomon University of Washington From thompson at handel.jlc.net Wed Apr 3 00:25:39 1996 From: thompson at handel.jlc.net (thompson at handel.jlc.net) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 19:25:39 -0500 Subject: Hauschild on Atmastuti Message-ID: <161227023642.23782.8106338108678252457.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of Indology, I am presently writing an article on RV Atmastutis and would like to examine an article by R. Hauschild, "Das Selbstlob (Atmastuti) des Soma berauschten Gottes Agni," which appeared in Asiatica, Festschrift F. Weller, 1954. I do not have access to good library resources, and hope that one of you possesses the article and could easily forward a copy to me. I will gratefully send compensation for postage and copying, and otherwise will gladly return the favor in any way possible. Also, other bibliographic references to or discussion of RV Atmastutis would be appreciated. Sincerely, George Thompson From thompson at handel.jlc.net Wed Apr 3 00:39:34 1996 From: thompson at handel.jlc.net (thompson at handel.jlc.net) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 19:39:34 -0500 Subject: debates Message-ID: <161227023644.23782.13187753092643577206.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I also do not have references to literature on medieval debates, but I also am interested in the topic. I do know that such debates go back, also, to Vedic brahmodyas, about which I am very concerned, and about which there is some secondary literature. If there is interest in broadening the discussion to Vedic origins, I would gladly forward references and observations. G. Thompson From thompson at handel.jlc.net Wed Apr 3 03:07:08 1996 From: thompson at handel.jlc.net (thompson at handel.jlc.net) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 22:07:08 -0500 Subject: brahmodyas Message-ID: <161227023651.23782.7591280067573109256.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:46:02 -0500 >To:vidya at cco.caltech.edu >From:thompson at jlc.net (George Thompson) >Subject:brahmodyas > >Discussion of the brahmodya among Vedicists is fairly extensive, beginning >with an important article by Renou [in collaboration with Silburn] "Sur la >notion de brahman" in JA 237, 1949 [the second half of this article is >devoted to the brahmodya, which Renou considers to be a crucial Vedic >practice. Kuiper wrote an article on "The Ancient Aryan Verbal Contest" in >1960, in IIJ 4. More recently Witzel has written an article that mentions >the brahmodya frequently, "The Case of the Shattered Head" [Studien zur >Indologie und Iranistik, 1987], which apparently has triggered a response >by Insler, "The Shattered Head Split and the Epic tale of ShakuntalA," BEI >1989-90 [I have not seen this article]. Finally, there is an article >written by myself, "The Brahmodya and Vedic Discourse," which is >scheduled, tentatively, to appear in JAOS 116.4. In my view Vedic is an >intensely agonistic culture in which verbal dexterity [i.e., skill in >something like debate] is vitally necessary, and proudly displayed. It is >assumed by most Vedicists, I think. that verbal dexterity in debate is a >highly admired feature in Indic culture going back to such Vedic roots. >The Vedic brahmodya involves riddling and name-giving, challenge and >response, typically in the form of a dialogue, and frequently with >vehement expression of hostility and aggression. In a nutshell, the >brahmodya was a training ground for would-be Brahmins. >Sincerely, >G. Thompson > From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed Apr 3 12:24:17 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 07:24:17 -0500 Subject: brahmodyas Message-ID: <161227023657.23782.7810685377166169508.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In connection with the tradition of debates in India, one can also look at the continuation of this tradition in modern times in traditional institutions and forums of Sanskrit learning. Around 1962 in Pune, there was an all India Panditasabhaa in which there was open-ended debate in Sanskrit on many Shaastras for three days. I was trained by my teachers in Pune to take part in a debate on some topic in Sanskrit grammar. There are annually held debate competitions in Sanskrit on both traditional and non-traditional topics in India. For example, the Vikram University at Ujjain holds an annual Kalidasa festival and part of the proceedings is an inter-university Sanskrit debate competition. Along with myself, Vidyut Aklujkar, Saudamini Deshmukh, (late) Jayashree Gune, and others from Pune took part in these competitions and won top prizes and trophies for Poona University and the Tilak Maharashtra Vidyapith. More traditional debates are still organized through institutions like the Rashtriya Samskrit Sansthan, various Sanskrit Universities, establishments like Shankar Mutts and the like. George Cardona has once told me how one of his Pandit teachers in Banaras was visited by his opponents in the middle of the night for a 'vaada on the spot'. Thus, at least remnants of the classical debates may still be found in India and can be studied. All the best, Madhav Deshpande From ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU Wed Apr 3 13:54:48 1996 From: ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU (ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 07:54:48 -0600 Subject: brahmodyas Message-ID: <161227023661.23782.4854934895932855564.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >From: IN%"indology at liverpool.ac.uk" 3-APR-1996 06:50:16.54 >Subj: RE: brahmodyas > > In connection with the tradition of debates in India, one can also >look at the continuation of this tradition in modern times................ a 'vaada on the spot'. Thus, at least remnants of the classical >debates may still be found in India and can be studied. > All the best, > Madhav Deshpande > There are also ghosthis arranged some times spontaneously and some times planned, during the annual celebrations such as "VyAsarAyArAdhane", at some of the Mutts. The former Kanchi Kamakothi swamiji had conducted several of such ghosthis. Records of these are probably available. With best regards, Narahari Achar From mgansten at sbbs.se Wed Apr 3 06:44:25 1996 From: mgansten at sbbs.se (mgansten at sbbs.se) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 08:44:25 +0200 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023653.23782.15831305499700518342.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks to all who replied to my query so far. Robert Zydenbos wrote: >I'm happy to see that someone else out there is interested in these things, >since I have begun studying this topic myself (particularly the varieties of >debate, and the rules governing them). But I am using Sanskrit materials from >Karnataka; I don't know of any secondary literature, so I too would be >interested if someone knows of any. I suppose "Sanskrit materials" means manuscripts of unpublished texts? Otherwise, I wouldn't mind going to the sources myself. (Incidentally, the question originated with a friend of mine, who spent his first sixteen years in Karnataka.) Martin Gansten mgansten at sbbs.se From vasu at religion.ufl.edu Wed Apr 3 14:35:58 1996 From: vasu at religion.ufl.edu (Vasudha Narayanan) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 09:35:58 -0500 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023663.23782.502886021441911944.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Accounts of various kinds of debates are found in the thirteenth/fourteenth century hagiography GuruparamparAprabhAvam by Pinpalakiya PerumAL JIyar. This text is a pious narrative of the Tamil poet-saints (alvars) and the teachers (acaryas) of the Sri Vaisnava tradition. The debates, therefore, obviously focus on Vaisnava-Saiva sectarian issues and Visistadvaita/advaita controversies. Needless to say, in this text, the Vaisnava and Visistadvaita folk emerge as winners. As far as I can remember, there are two kinds of debates: (1) vidvat sadas under the patronage of a ruler ( in this case, the Pandya king) to have a Paratattva nirNayam and (2) one on one debates ("tarka" is used as a verb in manipravala here). The stories describe incidents in the lives of people who lived anywhere between 500-25 years before the life of the author, so at best we get an idea of what was prevalent around 13th century. I don't know if this is the time span you are looking for. Here is short listing of debates I have found in this text. The text is in manipravala. The full citation is ARAyirappaTi GuruparamparAprabhAvam by Pinpalakiya PerumAL JIyar, published by S. Krishnaswami Ayyankar, Tiruccirappalli: Puttur Agraharam, 1975. 1. Periyalvar, (c. 8th cent) the Tamil poet is invited by the Pandyan king for a Vidvat sadas and establishes Visnu as the para tattva in a debate with a bunch of scholars (pp. 40-42) 2. Tirumankai alvar, (c. 9th- 10th cent.) also a Tamil poet, debates with Jnana Sambandar (Saiva poet) and wins (pp. 79-80). Of course, it is highly debatable whether these guys met, but we do have a good acct. of what they would have done if they had. 3. Ramanuja's (11th cent.) debate with Yajnamurti, a mAyAvAdin. This is the longest and most detailed of debates filled with traditional tropes -- they engage in debate like wild elephants battling each other for over 16 days, tarka goshtis as cheer leaders, winner takes all, including the other as his disciple, loser accepts the winner's sandals as his prize; good stuff here. (pp. 203-206) 4. Parasara Bhattar (Ramanuja's disciple Kuresa's son) debates with another mAyAvAdin called VedAnti (off and on from 336-345). VedAnti who is much older becomes Bhattar's disciple, becomes a sanyAsi and is renamed Namjiyar. The Ramanuja debate is the most interesting one-- if anyone is interested, I can translate the stuff and send it to your address. Vasudha Narayanan, Professor, Department of Religion University of Florida From raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu Wed Apr 3 22:05:04 1996 From: raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (Narayan S. Raja) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 12:05:04 -1000 Subject: Tamil Debates Message-ID: <161227023676.23782.3112461439251685833.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In this context, one should not forget classical debating traditions in languages other than Sanskrit. Even in Bombay, where I grew up, the "Bambaai Tamizh Sangham" used to regularly organize so-called "pattimanRam"s, in which various literary topics would be debated in very formal Tamil. The hall used to be packed. Probably it's even more active in Tamil Nadu. Perhaps someone like Mr. Ganesan could cast more light on this. Regards, Narayan Sriranga Raja. From Sfauthor at aol.com Wed Apr 3 17:51:31 1996 From: Sfauthor at aol.com (Sfauthor at aol.com) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 12:51:31 -0500 Subject: Bookstores in Madras Message-ID: <161227023669.23782.9230311659294693156.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Several months ago I posted a query about bookstores in Madras. Some of you may be interested in what I found. 1) Higginbothams on Anna Salai is reputed to be the largest bookstore in India. A general bookstore with most titles in English or Tamil, it reminded me of Cody's in Berkeley. 2) Giggles occupies one room on the ground floor of the Connemara Hotel. The books lay on their side, stacked in piles six feet tall. The aisle between the two rows of stacks is no more than two feet wide. All titles seemed to be in English and mostly about India. The books have been selected with an acute eye; very little chaff here. Staff was friendly and helpful. 3) Adyar bookstore has a good selection of both Indian and imported books. Visitors should note that the Adyar Library is closed on Mondays, that the lunch hour for the Theosophical Society is very long and that groundskeepers will give you guided tours whether you request them or not. The effect is that of the lunatics having taken over the asylum. 4) Motilal was a disappointment. By the time one accounts for multiple copies of a title appearing in multiple locations on the shelves, the total number of titles in stock is not very large. Also not well organized. 5) Jayalakshmi Indological Book House (6 Appar Swamy Koil Street, Mylapore, Madras 600 004) is tiny, but a gem. The entire staff is sweet and helpful. The proprietor has decades of publishing experience, having previously worked for Motilal and OUP. 6) In Pondicherry, the Aurobindo Ashram both publishes and sells books of excellent quality in English and all the major European and South Asian languages. They also publish half a dozen periodicals, including one in Sanskrit. Of course, their titles are limited to those written by Aurobindo, the Mother and their followers. 7) In Delhi, the World Book Fair had perhaps a thousand exhibitors organized by language of publication. There were a dozen Sanskrit publishers. None stood out from the others, although looking at the books that I actually bought, most of them were from Khemraj in Bombay. The hundreds and hundreds of English publishers were not further subdivided into smaller categories, so aside from the larger ones (Penguin, Rupa, etc.) they all tended to blend together. From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Wed Apr 3 11:56:10 1996 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 12:56:10 +0100 Subject: BEI Message-ID: <161227023655.23782.8230370245332452722.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >>Discussion of the brahmodya among Vedicists is fairly extensive, beginning >>with an important article by Renou [in collaboration with Silburn] "Sur la >>notion de brahman" in JA 237, 1949 [the second half of this article is >>devoted to the brahmodya, which Renou considers to be a crucial Vedic >>practice. Kuiper wrote an article on "The Ancient Aryan Verbal Contest" in >>1960, in IIJ 4. More recently Witzel has written an article that mentions >>the brahmodya frequently, "The Case of the Shattered Head" [Studien zur >>Indologie und Iranistik, 1987], which apparently has triggered a response >>by Insler, "The Shattered Head Split and the Epic tale of ShakuntalA," BEI >>1989-90 [I have not seen this article]. Would somebody please tell which journal the initials BEI refer to? Thank you! LM Lars Martin Fosse Research Fellow Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no >?From P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk 03 96 Apr CDT 13:07:00 Date: 03 Apr 96 13:07:00 CDT From: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk Subject: debates Reply-To: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Some of you might find the gosti ('debate') genre of Hindi literature interesting in this regard. Gostis are quite common in manuscripts, although I think little published. Typically they consist of debates between persons such as Kabir and Nanak, Gorakhanatha and Kabir, Kabir and Raidas etc. However, they also include debates between persons who were not contemporaries and historical and mythical persons (such as Kabir, Gorakhnath and Ganesha). They are mostly parts of hagiographical traditions. Still they show many features of popular perceptions of what constituted debate in northern India from the 16th century onwards Peter Friedlander From mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk Wed Apr 3 13:13:37 1996 From: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 14:13:37 +0100 Subject: DOS Pali Canon files available Message-ID: <161227023659.23782.4380572889135266557.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am happy to announce that the public domain version of the tipi.taka in Pali is now available in the version for DOS (files with extension .ZIP) from the websites of the Journal of Buddhist Ethics: U.K. http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe/jbe.html U.S.A. http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/jbe.html Lance Cousins MANCHESTER, UK Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Wed Apr 3 16:45:01 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 16:45:01 +0000 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023667.23782.759466137530016541.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Bimal Matilal's inaugural lecture at Oxford, entitled "The logical illumination of Indian mysticism" contained quite a lot on the formal rules of debate as presented in nyaya literature. I think this essay was reprinted somewhere in one of his later books. He also discussed this topic in section 1.2 "Rule[s] of dialectic an debate" in his book _Logic, Language & Reality_ (Delhi: Motilal, 1985). In the latter referenence, Bimal also describes the rules of debate that are presented in the Carakasamhita. Dominik Wujastyk From jlc at ccr.jussieu.fr Wed Apr 3 15:17:57 1996 From: jlc at ccr.jussieu.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 17:17:57 +0200 Subject: BEI Message-ID: <161227023665.23782.16882735652474636631.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 12:15 03/04/1996 BST, you wrote: > ...... >>>the brahmodya frequently, "The Case of the Shattered Head" [Studien zur >>>Indologie und Iranistik, 1987], which apparently has triggered a response >>>by Insler, "The Shattered Head Split and the Epic tale of ShakuntalA," BEI >>>1989-90 [I have not seen this article]. > >Would somebody please tell which journal the initials BEI refer to? > >Thank you! > >LM > > > >Lars Martin Fosse Il s'agit du Bulletin d'Etudes Indiennes (edite par l'Association Francaise pour les Etudes Indiennes) et dont la responsable est Nalini Balbir (les fondateurs sont G.-J. Pinault et N. Balbir) -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) From c.j.oort at pi.net Wed Apr 3 19:47:30 1996 From: c.j.oort at pi.net (c.j.oort at pi.net) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 21:47:30 +0200 Subject: BEI Message-ID: <161227023671.23782.5098529296380594289.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The spelling may not be accurate but BEI is ```````; Bulletin des Etudes Indiennes. Marianne Oort C.J. Oort tel: 31-(0)70-5116960 fax: 31-(0)70-5140832 From pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu Thu Apr 4 14:04:11 1996 From: pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu (pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu) Date: Thu, 04 Apr 96 06:04:11 -0800 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227023683.23782.16749416057237901179.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> New Message Date: April 3, 1996 Indology List indology at Liverpool.ac.uk Dear Members This is probably not what the original inquiry wanted, but ... There are also folk debate traditions. These are often embedded in dramatizations. Karnataka has several. One (the name I forget) is between a man and a woman who debate which gender is superior. Though consisting of many stock retorts, there is a great deal of room for developing new ones and people can become highly skilled in producing clever as well as humorous arguments. Then there is a form of Yakshagana (normally a drama form in which stories from the Mahabharata and Ramayana are staged by richly costumed actors), called Tale Maddale, in which the actors wear no costume, but sit opposite one another on the floor. They take the parts of their characters (say, Rama, Sugriva, Vali, etc.) and perform the drama. At critical moments, they confront one another questioning and debating the moral justification of their actions. The actors in this form of the drama need to be highly skilled in their verbal art, and rarely take a major role before studying it 10-15 years, observing the performances of the greatest artists of their day, attending up to a hundred performances in a single year. Many local scholars participate in these performances and the audiences are packed with the local literati when renown performers challenge one another. My own Kannada language skills have not been up to a full appreciation of this art, but perhaps there are others on the List who could give a description of the debate techniques used. Stuart Blackburn has studied a somewhat similar verbal tradition embedded in Kerala puppet performances. Peter J. Claus fax: (510) 885-3353 pclaus at csuhayward.edu From R.W.Perrett at massey.ac.nz Wed Apr 3 21:01:39 1996 From: R.W.Perrett at massey.ac.nz (R.W.Perrett at massey.ac.nz) Date: Thu, 04 Apr 96 09:01:39 +1200 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023674.23782.4609455544255878291.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Domnik wrote: >Bimal Matilal's inaugural lecture at Oxford, entitled "The logical >illumination of Indian mysticism" contained quite a lot on the formal >rules of debate as presented in nyaya literature. I think this essay >was reprinted somewhere in one of his later books. > This lecture was published by OUP as a separate pamphlet with that title. My Indian impression published by OUP India is dated Delhi, 1978; the title page of this indicates that the work was first published by the Clarendon Press, Oxford 1977. I don't believe this lecture was reprinted in any of Matilal's later collections. However there is also some material on debate and dialectic in his *Perception* (Oxford, 1986). email: R.W.Perrett at massey.ac.nz From Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz Thu Apr 4 09:16:16 1996 From: Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz (Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz) Date: Thu, 04 Apr 96 11:16:16 +0200 Subject: Vikram Seth - I Message-ID: <161227023679.23782.229488608287406553.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, doing some editorial work on the Czech translation of the book Vikram Seth: A suitable boy. Phoenix House, London, 1993, I come across some problems of various nature. I'm going to write a series of questions on this topic to the INDOLOGY forum and hope some native speakers of Hindi/Urdu or some other scholars could help me. --------- On p. 48 the following saying occurs: "Don't add chillies to boiled potatoes." Is this an idiomatic expression or a proverb? Can anyone explain me what should be the proper meaning of this phrase? Thank you, Jan Dvorak From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Thu Apr 4 13:13:15 1996 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Thu, 04 Apr 96 14:13:15 +0100 Subject: BEI Message-ID: <161227023681.23782.16612089225700289063.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >The spelling may not be accurate but BEI is ```````; Bulletin des Etudes >Indiennes. >Marianne Oort > Thank you for your information! Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Research Fellow Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From thompson at handel.jlc.net Thu Apr 4 21:17:39 1996 From: thompson at handel.jlc.net (thompson at handel.jlc.net) Date: Thu, 04 Apr 96 16:17:39 -0500 Subject: Hauschild Message-ID: <161227023684.23782.6529559245134761629.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of Indology, I have received several kind offers to forward Hauschild's article to me. Many thanks both to those who responded and to those who would have. G. Thompson From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU Sat Apr 6 05:03:10 1996 From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 96 00:03:10 -0500 Subject: New issue/ E.J. of Vedic Studies Message-ID: <161227023686.23782.15516586197757761656.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The editors of the Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies take pleasure in announcing a new issue: Vol.2, issue 1. At the beginning of its second yearthe journal has some 350 subscribers now.(You can subscribe by a messsage to ejvs-request at shore.net or under "how to subscribe" at www.shore.net/~india/ejvs. EJVS 2-1 contains: Editorial: by M. Witzel Announcement: L. Renou's "Kleine Schriften" by B. Oguibenine Article: ON NEWLY FOUND MSS. OF THE VAADHUULA SCHOOL OF THE YAJURVEDA by Y. Ikari, Kyoto U. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Vaadhuula zaakhaa is a sub-school of the Taittiriiya zaakhaa of the Black Yajurveda. It is little known and has been studied even less. As such, it is one of the elusive zaakhaas that need urgent exploration and study. We especially urge our Indian colleagues (and all those South Asians in the west who make the occasional trip back home to BhaaratavarSa) to undertake such surveys in other parts of the country as well. We will gladly publish any "travel" reports you send to the journal. For example, we do not know anything of value about the Vedic tradition of Assam (and Manipur!), and the elusive Carakas of rural Maharashtra should also be investigated finally. Western Nepal, Uttarakhanda and Himachal Pradesh are some other good cases to be investigated closely. (If members are interested, the available information on rare schools or unexplored parts of the subcontinent will be published here to facilitate field trips.) We therefore are most grateful to Y. Ikari for actually having undertaken several field trips to Madras and Kerala to recover some of thelast vestiges of this once important school of the Yajurveda which can be traced back all the way to eastern U.P. during the late Vedic period.... As the present article indicates there is not only much new material but the older (partial) editions of Caland, Sparreboom & Heesterman, and Chaubey all need to be revised in this light. On a personal note I may add that I gave up the idea to publish the BraahmaNa and Zrautasuutra on the basis of the Madras MSS. in 1979 when I learned from D. Bhattacharya (then at Hoshiarpur) that B. Chaubey was working on the text -- retrospectively a felicitous decision, as all materials available then were quite defective. We look forward to Prof. Ikari's new edition which is beginning to appear now (in Zinbun, the Journal of the Institute for Studies of Humanities of Kyoto University, May 1996). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Witzel Department of Sanskrit Wales Professor of Sanskrit and Indian Studies Chair, Committee on South Asian Studies 53 Church Street Harvard University Cambridge MA 02138, USA phones: - 1- 617 - 495 3295 (messages) Electronic Journal of 496 8570 Vedic Studies fax: 496 8571 EJVS-list at shore.net email: witzel at husc3.harvard.edu http://www.shore.net/~india/ejvs ============================================================================== From sdiamond at sas.upenn.edu Mon Apr 8 23:08:26 1996 From: sdiamond at sas.upenn.edu (sdiamond at sas.upenn.edu) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 96 19:08:26 -0400 Subject: Search for authors on birds in SA folklore Message-ID: <161227023688.23782.6241308967943062106.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr. Margaret Mills and Dr. Peter Claus are seeking an author to write a > short article (500-1,000 words) on parrots, peacocks, and other birds in > South Asian folklore. This article will be included in the volume Asian Folklore: An Encyclopedia>. > > Please send any suggestions for authors, including a brief description of > their qualifications, to sdiamond at sas.upenn.edu. > > Thank You, > > Sarah Diamond > Production Editor > > > From pdb1 at columbia.edu Tue Apr 9 13:17:03 1996 From: pdb1 at columbia.edu (Peter D Banos) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 96 09:17:03 -0400 Subject: Vikram Seth - II Message-ID: <161227023692.23782.4098464970424808605.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Jan Dvorak wrote: > Which one is the "north-west corner" of a postcard?... > [Vikram Seth: A suitable boy. Phoenix House, London, 1993] I would guess, based on the way maps are generally oriented, that it means the upper left... where we generally write the "Dear so-and-so." Does this make sense in context? And if not, does anyone out there have any better ideas? -Peter D. Banos pdb1 at columbia.edu "We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him." From Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz Tue Apr 9 09:00:19 1996 From: Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz (Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 96 11:00:19 +0200 Subject: Vikram Seth - II Message-ID: <161227023690.23782.2607482817284801490.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, this is the second question: Which one is the "north-west corner" of a postcard? (Sorry but I don't have the proper quotation of the text nor the page, where it occurs) [Vikram Seth: A suitable boy. Phoenix House, London, 1993] -- Jan Dvorak From laurence at bishop.bishop.Hawaii.Org Wed Apr 10 02:18:02 1996 From: laurence at bishop.bishop.Hawaii.Org (Linda Laurence) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 96 16:18:02 -1000 Subject: Sanskrit/Hindi Job Opening Message-ID: <161227023694.23782.12221454683022522017.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The following ad was posted in the University of Hawaii's newsletter _Ku Lama_ March 8, 1996, vol. 2, no. 29. Sorry I just saw it today and wasn't able to pass it on sooner. Perhaps someone on INDOLOGY is interested: LECTURER(S) IN HINDI AND SANSKRIT: Non-tenurable, contingent upon registration, position availability and funding, for Fall 1996 with possible renewal for Spring 1997. DUTIES: To teach undergraduate courses in Hindi and Sanskrit. MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS: M.A. in Hindi, Sanskrit Languages, South Asian Studies, or related field; high level fluency in Hindi. DESIRABLE QUALIFICATIONS: Evidence of successful Hindi and Sanskrit language teaching experience. MINIMUM SALARY: $925 per credit per semester. Send letter of application, CV, letters from three current references to Dr. Rama Nath Sharma, Acting Chair, Department of Hawaiian and Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures, University of Hawai'i at Manoa, Spalding Hall 459, 2540 Maile Way, Honolulu, HI 96822. Telephone: [(808)] 956-8672. CLOSING DATE: 04/30. Selection will be made until staffing needs are filled. P.S. I am not connected with the University. Linda Laurence laurence at bishop.bishop.hawaii.org Catalog Librarian Phone: (808) 848-4148 Bishop Museum Library FAX: (808) 841-8968 1525 Bernice Street, Honolulu, Hawaii, 96817-0916 U.S.A. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "He `onipa`a ka `oia`i`o. Truth is not changeable." Hawaiian proverb from: `Olelo No`eau (Mary Kawena Pukui, 1983) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz Wed Apr 10 07:19:43 1996 From: Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz (Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 09:19:43 +0200 Subject: Vikram Seth - II Message-ID: <161227023696.23782.18086072172067887127.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> According to Peter D Banos: > > I would guess, based on the way maps are generally oriented, that it > means the upper left... > This is one of the possibilities we've been thinking of. Or could it have some astrological connotations? Here is the original text: "The fourth corner, the northwest corner, could contain two golden numerals indicating the age of the recipient." (Vikram Seth, A Suitable Boy, p. 38) >?From D.Wujastyk at wellcome.ac.uk 10 96 Apr EDT 10:52:00 Date: 10 Apr 96 10:52:00 EDT From: D.Wujastyk at wellcome.ac.uk Subject: Sinhalese palm-leaf manuscript exhibition Reply-To: D.Wujastyk at wellcome.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII As part of the run-up to publishing its long-awaited catalogue of Sinhalese manuscripts by Mr K D Somadasa, the Library of the Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine (183 Euston Road, London, tel: +44-171-611-8714, email: library at wellcome.ac.uk) has mounted a small exhibition of Sinhalese palm-leaf manuscripts in its main reading room. This exhibition will be on display for approximately six weeks from now. Queries to the Exhibitions Officer, Ken Arnold (k.arnold at wellcome.ac.uk). Dominik Wujastyk Associate Curator, S. A. Collections. -- The Palm Leaf Manuscript =================== In South and South East Asia, palm tree leaves were the most widely used writing material from at least the seventh century A D. Buddhist monasteries, where books were produced, often maintained a plantation of palm trees. Despite an adverse climate and other physical attacks, some palm leaf manuscripts have survived a thousand years and more, one in the Wellcome Collection, for example, having been transcribed during the eleventh century. The Wellcome Institute Library holds over a thousand palm leaf manuscripts, 468 of them in the Sinhalese collection. As with the other Oriental collections, medicine is the core subject; but many examples of Buddhist texts and tracts, as well as works on such unusual subjects as iron smelting and fireworks manufacture are also represented. This exhibition illustrates the artistry of palm leaf inscription and different styles of Sinhalese calligraphy. It also presents fine examples of lac work decorating the outside boards. Details of the whole collection will shortly be published in the Catalogue of Sinhalese Manuscripts in the Library of the Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine compiled by K D Somadasa. Captions ======= Royal grant of land to Rambukvalle Ratanajoti. 1792 The grant was made to maintain the rituals of the Ganegala vihara, where the sacred Tooth Relic was then kept. Written on copper, surrounded by a border of silver filigree, the royal signature Sri is embossed in gold to the left. WS 1 Mahabhinikmana. Transcribed in the 18th century This is a Sinhala poem on the Great Renunciation of Prince Siddhartha. The palm leaves are contained in fine lac worked wooden covers which show a traditional knot pattern. WS 42 Saddharmalankaraye Kotas. 19th century This is an abridged version of some popular stories, contained within lac painted covers in the yellow string knot pattern with gem chipped border. WS 114 Composite manuscript containing four Buddhist texts: Bodhivamsaya Saddharmalankaraya (extracts), Kosalabimba, varnanava and Saddharmalankaraya (extracts). 1756 The boards containing the manuscript are painted both on the outside and inside. The outside is decorated with yellow vine scroll and Katirimala floral motifs with petal borders along the bevelled edges. The inside is decorated with an illustration of the eight great places of worship in Sri Lanka. WS 105 Composite manuscript containing a Sinhalese paraphrase of the first sermon of the Buddha and the Pali word order of this sermon. Transcribed in the 19th century The manuscript is contained in exquisitely painted wooden covers both inside and out. The outside shows the figure Nari-lata with scroll emanating from the figure, full and half lotuses, white flowers with petals and petal border. The inside shows Prince Siddhartha leaving Princess Yasodhara and the new born Prince Rahula with subsequent incidents. WS 143 Composite manuscript comprising three Buddhist texts. Transcribed in the 19th century This manuscript is contained within two delicately incised brass covers. WS 46 Composite manuscript comprising two texts Elu Umandava and Muva jatakaya: Nigrodha mrga jatakaya. Transcribed c 1796 The work is contained within an excellent example of Kandyan lac work showing the string-knot motif at either end with a single vine scroll between the punched holes, and a flower round each hole, surrounded with a diamond-chip motif on bevelled edges. WS 104 Pujavaliya . c 18th-century copy The manuscript is contained within wooden covers painted with an elegant single floral scroll on one cover and an intricate twin floral scroll on the other surrounded by a petal border along the bevelled edges. WS 64 Composite manuscript comprising ten different texts. Transcribed in 1746 The work is held within elegantly painted covers with single yellow floral scroll and a face in the centre. WS 51 Occult handbook entitled Yantra mantra potak copied in 19th century A selection of magical diagrams and illustrations are displayed. WS 44 Piruvana pot-vahanse: Catubhanavara pali. 1856 This work is a collection of Pali suttas or sermons recited on special occasions to ward off illness and danger. It is transcribed in a clear well spaced skilled hand with punctuation marks painted with vermilion to be noticed at night during recitation of the text. WS 8 Ginikeli sadana krama. Transcribed in the 19th century The work describes methods of making fireworks. The quantities in the formulae are given in astrological numerals and some of the chemicals used are given in abbreviated form. in a skilled small hand. WS 388 Palm leaves and stylus These are the writing implements of the palm leaf book. The leaves were prepared by stripping the leaf from the central rib, boiling it clean and smoothing the surface with a shell. It was then incised with a sharp metal stylus and rubbed with lampblack to make the incisions legible. A cord was strung through the leaves and wooden boards put at either end. Daivajnamukhamandanam. 18th century A Sanskrit astrological lexicon in slokas comprising an excellent example of palm leaf decoration. The first folio is copied in traditional style with the text between the two cord holes and two delicate creeper motifs on the left and right margins. Throughout the manuscript each line begins and ends with a kundali. WS 363 Yogaratnakaraya: Varayogaratnakaraya. Transcribed during the 19th century This is a medical work in Sinhala verse composed in 1665. This later transcription is in a neat expert round hand. WS 10 Painting of a scribe carrying a palm leaf and stiletto. India. late-18th century This reproduction is of part of a painting brought amongst a collection of others to England in 1796 by Admiral Peter Rainier on his retirement as Commander in Chief of the Royal Navy. Courtesy of the British Library -- NB For the foreseeable future, please address email to d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk, not to d.wujastyk at wellcome.ac.uk. From tlowe at uclink.berkeley.edu Wed Apr 10 19:55:17 1996 From: tlowe at uclink.berkeley.edu (Thelma L Lowe) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 12:55:17 -0700 Subject: Seminar request Message-ID: <161227023704.23782.6165606676190389054.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks for announcements of you seminars. I am keenly interested in Arun Agrawal's topic i connection with my dissertation research. Would you kindly pass on an email address for him so that I may find out if there is a published or other available version of his research. Thanks, Thelma Lowe Department of SSEAS UCB From kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu Wed Apr 10 18:45:23 1996 From: kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu (Kamal Adhikary) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 13:45:23 -0500 Subject: Seminar and abstracts Message-ID: <161227023703.23782.6026203001496448476.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues: The last two talks at Asian Studies for this semester are scheduled on the 25th and 30th April. If you happen to come to Austin, please come hear the talks. The topics are given below, and I will post the abstracts on ASNIC as usual. Thanks. SOUTH ASIA SEMINAR APRIL 25, Thursday 3:30 PM Meyerson Conference Room, WCH 4.118 Dr. John Richards Department of History Duke University "Early Modern Indian and World History" LECTURE ON INDIAN POLITICS APRIL 30, Tuesday 12 noon Meyerson Conference Room, WCH 4.118 Professor Arun Agrawal Program in Agrarian Studies Yale University - Fellow, 1995-96 Department of Political Science, University of Florida - Professor "Subaltern Politics Around Grazing Commons in a Rajasthani Village, India" [This work uses ongoing conflicts between raika shepherds and farmers in Rajasthan, India to examine issues related to domination, and the possibility of subaltern agency. He develops two themes on the basis of the empirical discussion on the formation of new institutions around jointly used pastoral resources: resistnace and domination take place only in relation to each other and power is constitutive for both; subalternity is a shifting rather than stable identity and depends of the resources and contexts which actors in various subject positions use for their strategies.] kamal _______________ Kamal R. Adhikary, Ph.D. Internet Coordinator, Asian Studies UT, Austin, Texas 78712 Tel:512-475-6034 Email:kamal at asnic.utexas.edu From g.v.simson at easteur-orient.uio.no Wed Apr 10 11:54:53 1996 From: g.v.simson at easteur-orient.uio.no (g.v.simson at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 13:54:53 +0200 Subject: Vikram Seth - II Message-ID: <161227023699.23782.5548437913308262577.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >According to Peter D Banos: >> >> I would guess, based on the way maps are generally oriented, that it >> means the upper left... >> > >This is one of the possibilities we've been thinking of. Or could it have >some astrological connotations? > >Here is the original text: > >"The fourth corner, the northwest corner, could contain two >golden numerals indicating the age of the recipient." (Vikram Seth, >A Suitable Boy, p. 38) According to the (Northern) Indian tradition, right (sanskrit dakSiNa) is = south (because you are looking to the east which is in front of you). The northwest corner would then be the lower left corner of the post-card. But I am not competent to decide whether Seth followed this logic or not. Professor Georg von Simson University of Oslo Department of East European and Oriental Studies Box 1030, Blindern 0315 Oslo, Norway From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Wed Apr 10 17:36:32 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 17:36:32 +0000 Subject: Vikram Seth - II Message-ID: <161227023701.23782.8079051172761994107.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Jan Dvorak said: > > Which one is the "north-west corner" of a postcard? (Sorry but I don't have > the proper quotation of the text nor the page, where it occurs) > [Vikram Seth: A suitable boy. Phoenix House, London, 1993] I've just read the passage, which is on p.42 of my Phoenix House 1993 edition, and "north-west" definitely means "top-left" in the context. There's nothing astrological or otherwise non-obvious about it. Mrs Rupa Mehra is making a birthday card out of a folded bit of white card and some cut-out stars etc. She sticks three cut-out stars in the other corners, reserving the top-left corner for the numerals "35", the age of the recipient. (Later she sticks a star there too.) iti dik -- Dominik From garzilli at shore.net Thu Apr 11 00:36:44 1996 From: garzilli at shore.net (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 20:36:44 -0400 Subject: IJTS Vol. 2, No. 1 (April 1996) Message-ID: <161227023706.23782.6712228661709265656.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF TANTRIC STUDIES ISSN 1084-7553 Vol. 2 (1996), No. 1, April 10 We are very glad to announce that the 3rd issue of the IJTS has just been distributed by email to our Members. It is available on our ftp server: ftp://ftp.shore.net/members/india/ijts/issues It will soon be available on our WEB pages: http://www.shore.net/~india/ijts/ To subscribe send msgs to: ijts-list-request at shore.net with the subject: subscribe * * * * * IN THIS ISSUE: - NOTE FROM THE EDITOR - TANTRA FAQ - DEB - PAPER: *Tantra and Dharma Teachers from Kashmir in Nepal -- The Oldest Manuscript of the KRtyakalpataru* by Michael Witzel - COMPUTER SPACE: *Typing Devanagari on a Standard Keyboard* by Derick Miller - NEWS - NEW TITLES - COPYRIGHT NOTICE * * * * * *TANTRA AND DHARMA TEACHERS FROM KASHMIR IN NEPAL -- The oldest manuscript of the KRtyakalpataru*, by Michael Witzel ABSTRACT An early Devanagari MS of the 12th century work KRtyakalpataru that was found in Nepal includes notes in early Sharada and Newari scripts which indicate its use in India and in Nepal by a Kashmiri Pandit. As other sources indicate, extensive travel of this type was not unusual, and this helps to account for the close relation between Kashmiri and Nepalese Tantra texts. Such long distance cultural relationships spanning the subcontinent are in need of detailed study. Evidence from MSS such as the present one, though usually neglected by scholars, provide important materials for this endeavor. * * * * * COMPUTER SPACE: *TYPING DEVANAGARI ON A STANDARD KEYBOARD*, by Derick Miller ABSTRACT 1. The Basic Problem 2. UniType International from Gamma Systems 3. Learning How to Use UniType 4. ILKEYB (Indian Language Keyboard Program) 5. Possible Enhancements for Devanagari Windows Products 6. Conclusion 7. Contact Information and Pricing * * * * * Enjoy the reading! Dr. Enrica Garzilli Harvard Law School Editor-in-Chief, IJTS and JSAWS garzilli at hulaw1.harvard.edu garzilli at shore.net ********************************* From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov Thu Apr 11 14:56:35 1996 From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 09:56:35 -0500 Subject: India: TIME article Message-ID: <161227023710.23782.13191820073983927551.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> TIME International, March 25, 1996 Volume 147, No. 13 SPECIAL REPORT: INDIA A republic of 940 million bids to become a full member of the global marketplace JAMES WALSH In 1783, three years before Sir William Jones discovered that Sanskrit was closely akin to ancient Latin, Greek and Gothic, the great Edmund Burke rose before the House of Commons to deplore British neglect of India. "Every other conqueror, Arab, Tartar or Persian, has left behind him some monument, either of royal splendour or useful beneficence," he said. "If tomorrow we were expelled from Hindostan, nothing would remain to indicate that it had been possessed during the inglorious period of our dominion by any better tenants than the ourang-outang or the tiger." Burke can be forgiven if his history, as well as his natural lore, was imprecise: no "Arab" ever conquered India, though Muslims did, and the orangutan hangs out elsewhere. Yet his warning obviously had an effect. Two turbulent centuries later, a land that has been independent India for nearly 50 years still commemorates the British raj's end with a stirring spectacle in New Delhi. As trumpets sound, camels appear on the ramparts of the domed and turreted government buildings, an expanse of architecture designed by Sir Edwin Lutyens that forms a majestic fantasy in stone. Down to Vijay Chowk, the large square below, march bagpipers skirling the bittersweet strains of Abide with Me, one of Mohandas Gandhi's favorite hymns. At such a moment, the Indias of Gandhi's and Kipling's imaginations seem eerily to coexist, like a stereopticon brought into subtle focus. The hybrid traditions of the Beating of the Retreat ceremony display a civilization that is perhaps the most inclusive in the world: remarkably absorbent of outside influences while remaining unmistakably itself. Nowadays that resilience is undergoing a test carrying high promise and high anxiety in roughly equal measure. Although recurrently invaded down the ages, India since antiquity has been a universe in itself, barricaded by wide seas, the world's tallest mountains and other forbidding obstacles. Today's republic of 940 million people is shedding, albeit unevenly, its romance with self-sufficiency, together with deep-seated suspicions of the outside world. It wants a treasury commensurate with its wealth of spirit. It wants cellular phones and fancy cars and a diplomatic heft more in keeping with the country's size. In short, India is bidding to become a fully accredited, paid-up member of the global marketplace. In a land famous for extremes, the cliches of travelog writers--the "triumph and tragedy" and gold-and-lice schools--have been only too sadly close to the mark. Echoing a familiar judgment, University of California, Los Angeles professor Stanley Wolpert wrote, "Everything is there, usually in magnified form. No extreme of lavish wealth or wretched poverty, no joy or misery, no beauty or horror is too wonderful, or dreadful, for India." Yet the changes in evidence on this platitude-wearied ground of late have become dramatic. The country today has a middle class numbering about 250 million, or around the same as the entire U.S. populace, a demographic revolution that is capturing the fancy of many foreign investors. Granted, "middle class" is a variable term, and Indians of that description do not enjoy the public infrastructure, or the incomes, available to Japanese, Germans and Americans. Still, thanks to economic reforms carried out during the past five years by the government of Prime Minister P.V. Narasimha Rao, many Indians are beginning to earn and buy enough to make them a factor to be reckoned with in policy calculations. Their kinsmen overseas, notably in America, are beginning to plow back more and more into the homeland, not only money but also know-how and cultural experiences gained abroad. In politics and trade, the Soviet Union's former best friend in Asia is orienting itself more to the U.S., with its resources of capital and technology. Unfortunately, this dynamism, besides posing a threat of social turmoil, is rocking the political structure to its foundations. How India will carry on from here looks likely to shape the fortunes of what will be the world's most populous nation in the next century. Impulses to cast off a planned economy and emulate the modern West are hardly unusual, of course. Governments from Poland to Brazil are struggling to do the same, along with Asia's other center of gravity, China, which has achieved a formidable head start. What makes the experiment so daunting for India is the risk of imbalance--no small concern in light of the subcontinent's dodgy geopolitics, these days threatening an accelerated nuclear-arms race. The rivalry with Pakistan is just one danger confronting India. A population that will soon overtake China's, but without anything close to China's long history of central governance, is venturing to alter fundamentally its social order. In a territorial vastness 10 times the size of Germany, incorporating scores of languages and many scripts as well as two mutually distrustful major religions, the Western import that almost all Indians agree is worth keeping--parliamentary democracy--is facing unprecedented trials. Winston Churchill, no friend of Indian independence, argued in a 1931 speech, "India is a geographical term. It is no more a united nation than the equator." That may have been true, in a strict political sense, for most of history, since British India was in fact the first empire that united almost all the subcontinent. But events since 1947, when the Union Jack was lowered, have proved Churchill wrong. The pluralism of liberal democracy, under the extraordinary moral guidance of Gandhi and Jawaharlal Nehru, has stitched together a workable nation-state that takes pride in its liberties, despite terrible strains. Nehru's daughter, Indira Gandhi, learned that lesson when she was unceremoniously ousted from the premiership--and briefly jailed--following her 21-month fling with authoritarianism under the 1975-77 Emergency. Britain's colonial record on the subcontinent was in many ways exactly what Burke styled it in his denunciation of "voracious birds of passage," describing minions of the English East India Co. But from Burke's day on--and thanks in part to European recognition of an ancient ethno-linguistic affinity with India--a Western-style political edifice slowly took shape, acquiring in the process a predictably distinctive Indian personality. Along with a Parliament modeled on Westminster's, the modern republic inherited universities, a dedicated civil service and a disciplined army that is probably the world's most obeisant to civilian authority: the 1.2 million-strong armed forces do not even have a Joint Chiefs of Staff, or any Indian counterpart of the Pentagon. Of all the influences that have taken root on this soil over 4,000 years, from the Vedic gods of the Aryans to the Persian architecture of the Moguls and John Company's merchant capitalism, this framework of political life is the country's greatest unifier. Shekhar Gupta, an editor of the Indian Express, accepts that his homeland has "the most fractious democracy in the world," with "an exceptional record of civil strife, often separatist, in one region or another." Even so, he notes, "it has not only survived, it has actually, if marginally, expanded in size." A half-century after Nehru's ringing "tryst with destiny" speech at the hour of independence, the gusts blowing through India's more open windows are approaching monsoon force. Institutions, some of them thousands of years old, have begun to shake under an upheaval that is remaking the caste system, the family structure, a large part of the economy and all of politics. In New Delhi, opposition figures as well as leaders of government in the ruling Congress Party are falling into discredit right and left as the most far-reaching corruption scandal in the republic's history keeps naming names. The sums involved in most of these charges of venality are not large by international standards, but disillusionment is no less for that. One day the Janata Dal party is implicated, the next day L.K. Advani, leader of the Hindu-nationalist Bharatiya Janata party. Just a few weeks before national elections, the buzz of the bazaars is speculation about how long Prime Minister Rao, a man who comports himself in an almost abstracted manner, can keep above the mess. Says Atul Kohli, an international-affairs professor at Princeton and an authority on his country's democracy: "Corruption in India doesn't surprise me. What does surprise me is how widespread and how high up it goes. That's a quantum leap in political decay." At the same time, observes Balveer Arora, head of the Center for Political Studies at Jawaharlal Nehru University, "there is change at every level of government. It's a lot of change for a short period of time." The effect is as if the Hindu god Siva, the Destroyer, had made an epochal visitation. What makes such a passage doubly fraught is the threat of the destructive overwhelming the creative. The gingerly but steadfast economic reforms pursued to date under the direction of Rao's talented Finance Minister, Manmohan Singh, could come tumbling down under the weight of pandering to fears and threatened interests. That would be truly tragic, for the potential of India as a world player is huge, as foreign visitors have recognized for centuries. Despite the open sore of Kashmir, where violent Muslim secessionists meet the danda raj--the rule of the stick--by New Delhi, the basically decent instincts of a nation with redoubtable talents deserves more than just the first fruits of Western-style economic performance. By right, and with luck, it will get much more. India's new calculation of where its best future lies did not come easily. The Soviet Union's demise, by now a familiar culprit, spelled the end of India's major arms supplier and strategic patron. Nehru's form of Fabian socialism was never so drastic and brutalizing as Moscow's Stalinism, but for four decades Fabian socialism directed the country's growth with five-year plans and a sprawling state network of industries. Import substitution, much in favor during the independence era, squared perfectly with India's time-honored view of itself as a cosmos apart. This system, the Congress Party's only article of faith beyond anticolonialism, came crashing down in 1991. Foreign-exchange reserves fell to $1 billion, a dire threat to oil supplies and other vital imports. After Rajiv Gandhi, Indira's son, was assassinated that year, a wave of sympathy votes unexpectedly restored Congress to power under Rao. Without any mandate as such for liberalization, he and Singh proceeded to open many of the airlocks and pressure valves that had long kept out foreigners who wanted to do business in India. From these gradual loosenings of tariffs, capital controls and other insulations flowed a degree of enterprise the ordinary Indian would not have predicted. With its purchasing power, a rising middle class, admittedly based almost wholly in the cities so far, developed tastes for creature comforts and new luxuries ranging from color TVs to cars, not to mention basic labor-saving devices. According to Judith Brown, professor of Commonwealth history at Oxford and an author of many books on India, washing machines have been a hot ticket. She adds, "And the latest craze is gardens--garden centers are blossoming. As people have more disposable income, the first thing they do is improve their houses." Brown also notes the signal reorientation of Indians' sights overseas. "The more India is opened up to the West, the more the influence is American--through the media and because of the large number of Indians who live in the U.S. Today America is the preferred destination of nonresident Indians, rather than Britain." Lately, in a country that lost some of its finest brainpower to such Western enterprises as the U.S. space program, the homegrown technopolis centered in Banglalore in southern India has its cutting-edge developments in aerospace and software. The fact that Rao's regime has helped accomplish all this under a democratic system has made such rewards all the sweeter. In Nehru's day, Indians could always comfort themselves in their poverty by noting the considerable lead that the West enjoyed in economic development. The rationale became increasingly hard to sustain over the past 20 years as Asians to the east, from Singapore to South Korea, surpassed India by giant strides in prosperity. Even the post-Marcos Philippines, which had lagged behind the Little Dragons for quite a while, was percolating with growth. A source of pride for India nowadays is that, unlike China, it is starting to join this major league of Asian go-getters with a fully functioning system of political liberties. The system is messy and inefficient, to be sure, and economic liberalization is not everyone's cup of Darjeeling. With every instance of social dislocation or threat of competition to domestic market monopolies comes a hail of attacks from the right and left. The Rao government's decision to sign the Uruguay Round of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, which set up the new World Trade Organization, was billed by oppositionists as a shocking sacrifice of sovereignty--no less than presidential hopeful Pat Buchanan has demonized the wto in America. The truth is that more open trade is far likelier to disrupt normal life in India than it ever could in the U.S. for the simple reason that it represents such a drastic departure. Karl Marx once did a study of Indian history and wondered why the civilization seemed to persist in such basically changeless form under a succession of conquerors. He concluded that village life was the staple. The better answer, though, would have been the caste system, a complex weave of inherited jobs and privileges that crossed all political lines of the moment. For millenniums, the horizontally linked castes, or rather subcastes, continued to keep alive the idea of India as a unified culture. What this distinctive social fabric also achieved, however, was the prevention of upward social mobility. As the 20th century draws to a close, the arrival of unaccustomed economic opportunities is starting to unravel the institution. Paul Kreisberg, a senior fellow at Washington's Woodrow Wilson Center, remarks simply, "Traditional ways of doing things are under more intense pressure for change than has ever taken place in India." Small wonder that politicians from communists to Hindu chauvinists believe they can harness anxieties. At a time when the nation has solid grounds for optimism, an accompanying strain on politics as usual is also extending to the everyday business conducted by the bureaucratic raj. A resurgence in the past decade of Hindu-Muslim communal violence, illustrated most vividly in Bombay's street mayhem and the destruction of a mosque in Ayodhya in 1992, has cast a shadow over the civil service's old sense of mission in governing all India for the good of all India. Even as the economy decentralizes, political power is gravitating toward state governments, which in Indira Gandhi's time were virtual Congress vassals. Editor Gupta notes that the Hindi-speaking belt, which stretches along the Gangetic plain in the north, is losing its old status as the nation's political-cultural heartland. "It is likely that much of the fresh investment will be cornered by the more enterprising states such as Maharashtra and Gujurat in the west and Karnataka and Tamil Nadu in the south," he says. This evolution, which Gupta describes as "haphazard" rather than free, might be enough to give pause to any reformer, although Manmohan Singh still professes the view that measured doses of liberalization are the answer. Heaven knows, the measures to date have barely scratched the state-controlled sector, a vast corporate machine that turns out wristwatches and jet planes, generates power and runs hotels. Robert Bradnock, a South Asia specialist at London's School of Oriental and African Studies, wonders whether all too much is being made of the reform campaign's accomplishments so far. Although the re-entry of Coca-Cola and Kentucky Fried Chicken's pathmaking into India have been politically charged, Bradnock predicts that "the next steps will be more difficult"--electricity, road building and the like. Backsliding seems a definite risk, but Bradnock in any case thinks a period of consolidation is in store. Adjusting course seems to be an equally safe bet for the political-party system. Corruption is merely one symptom of an order of allegiances that has outgrown its usefulness. However the Congress electrified the country during the independence movement, its postcolonial effort to be all things to all Indians has plainly come a cropper. The great banyan of patronage and favoritism fostered under prolonged rule by a single party can no longer serve a people testing their individual confidence on the world stage. The outward and visible signs of democracy that Indians have cherished for 50 years--the vote, a constitutional government--were not matched during those decades by the kind of democratic civil society from which European liberalism emerged. When the small farmer and machine-tool maker acquire financial independence, their votes will seek out choices greater than those that shopworn ideologies can offer. The land that Burke's preachments sought to help rescue still harbors much of the world's most desperately poor--a plight that a half-century's worth of self-sufficiency has only marginally relieved. The dreampolitik of the Mahatma's spinning wheel and Pandit Nehru's socialism is only just starting to adjust to the realities of the globe beyond those mountains and seas. Indians who have sought their personal fortunes on those farther shores have lighted the way for a homeland ready to catch up with dynamic East Asia. India will not quickly cast off the dead hand of the past, in the form of antagonisms with Pakistan or a foreign policy that still sees "nonalignment" as a fresh idea. But Indians are too talented, too various and irrepressible to remain aloof from influences they have welcomed through the ages. Throughout it all, and despite today's age of high anxiety, India will remain somehow thoroughly itself. --Reported by Helen Gibson/London and William Stewart and Dick Thompson/New Delhi From hindimcs at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 11 17:47:57 1996 From: hindimcs at u.washington.edu (Michael Shapiro) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 10:47:57 -0700 Subject: Alan Entwistle Message-ID: <161227023715.23782.3934524006115849087.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To Indology Subscribers: This is just a short note to pass on the very sad news that Alan W. Entwistle, Associate Professor of Hindi, South Asian Studies, and Comparative Religion at the University of Washington, died on Thursday, March 28th in Seattle. At the time of his death, Alan was 47 years old. For almost a decade Alan had suffered from a brain tumor, for which he had undergone surgery, radiation treatment, and chemotherapy. For most of this time, Alan led a fully active personal and professional life, with most of his colleagues, students, and acquaintances unaware of his illness. Alan's long period of remission from the tumor ended approximately a year and a half ago, but Alan courageously maintained his teaching and research schedule. This past October Alan retured to India to continue his research in Rajasthani literature. Unfortunately, Alan's health deteriorated seriously while in India and he was forced to return to Seattle in January. Alan is survived by his wife Albertine Smit, his sister, Janice Entwistle, in London, and his father, William Entwistle, in Weymouth, England. Michael C. Shapiro Department of Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington Seattle, Washington 98195-3521 (USA) From cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu Thu Apr 11 15:19:02 1996 From: cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu (cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 11:19:02 -0400 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023712.23782.1443603513135025784.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Dominik mentioned Bimal Matilal's work on debate in the nyaya literature. >Before he died, he was working on a much larger project, which traced the >development of logic in India from its roots in the debating traditions, and >included much discussion of Nyaya, Buddhist and Jaina debating manuals. >Heeraman Tiwari and myself have edited the manuscript, and it will be >published by SUNY Press hopefully very soon, under the title "The Character >of Logic in India". > >Jonardon Ganeri >Jonardon.Ganeri at nottingham.ac.uk It's good to know that this work will be published. In the discussions submitted so far, I have not seen any notice of the following work, which Bimal no doubt will have consulted and mentioned in his own: Esther A. Solomon, Indian Dialectics, 2 vols, Gujarat Vidya Sabha, Ahmedabad; I:1976, II:1978. From GANERI at VAX.LSE.AC.UK Thu Apr 11 13:12:00 1996 From: GANERI at VAX.LSE.AC.UK (GANERI at VAX.LSE.AC.UK) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 13:12:00 +0000 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023708.23782.421738186140171920.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dominik mentioned Bimal Matilal's work on debate in the nyaya literature. Before he died, he was working on a much larger project, which traced the development of logic in India from its roots in the debating traditions, and included much discussion of Nyaya, Buddhist and Jaina debating manuals. Heeraman Tiwari and myself have edited the manuscript, and it will be published by SUNY Press hopefully very soon, under the title "The Character of Logic in India". Jonardon Ganeri Jonardon.Ganeri at nottingham.ac.uk From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov Thu Apr 11 18:59:12 1996 From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 13:59:12 -0500 Subject: Debates in Tamil Message-ID: <161227023719.23782.8640057973299766270.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> 4/11/96 Tamil Debates ************** Continuing on the information Prof. Vasudha Narayanan provided from Srivaishnava side, there are several more from Saiva side too. Manimekalai, the only Buddhist epic in Tamil, 6th century AD (There is also a grammar, VirachOzhiyam, 12th century) evaluates all the other religions in contrast to Buddhism. In fact, the Tamil word for Debating forum is mentioned in Manimekalai. "Pattimandapam PaangaRintu ERumin" The Bhakti period was of full debates (7th-11th centuries). The polemics of Gnana Sambandhar against Jains/Buddhists is dealt by A. Veluppillai, Uppsala university and Indira Peterson, Mount Holyoke college in recent papers. Saiva Siddhantins in almost all their writings evaluate all other religions & no wonder, Saiva Siddhantam emereges triumphant. Madhava Sivagnana Yogikal in his civan~Ana mApATiyam has several chapters comparing several religions. tuRaimankalam civappirakAcar was a gifted poet of 17th century and a Veerasaivaite. Truly, one of the greatest Tamil poets. He wrote "Ecumata nirAkaraNam" - a refutation of Christianity. This is probably the earliest documented work against Christianity from South India. It is said that he held debates with Veeramamunivar, the Italian Jesuit priest. But their times do not match. So is it against De Nobili?? As far as I know, Only two of the poems have survived. Given in ca. cOmacuntara tEcikar, tamilp pulavarkal varalaru (patinEzhaam nURRANTu). Desigar further notes that the only available manuscript was purchased by a European Collector. (Frank Whyte Ellis ??). He died young. His successor's cook/butler burnt tons of South Indian manuscripts 'to kindle the kitchen fires'. I am very interested in seeing this work. May be in a Veerasaiva math manuscript collection or GOML etc.. Mayilam Math published collected works of Civappirakacar in 1944. Available at British library. It must be checked. If somebody in UK is willing to help, I can get the full bibliographical refence. It will be great if Ecumata nirakaranam can be found. In 19th century, Arumuga Navalar of Jaffna was employed by Peter Percival to translate bible into tamil. Later Navalar was a champion reformer of Saivism and wrote several prose polemics against Christianity. Prof. Dennis Hudson has written few articles on Navalar. There is arecent book on Navalar from Vienna. N. Ganesan nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov From bprecia at colmex.mx Thu Apr 11 20:18:53 1996 From: bprecia at colmex.mx (Benjamin Preciado Solis) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 14:18:53 -0600 Subject: Temples and shoes Message-ID: <161227023722.23782.16956228075667294041.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Mon, 8 Apr 1996, Romer Cornejo wrote: > Dear list members > In reference to the verses kindly given by my dear friend Prof. > Aklujkar, Prof. Deshpande, and others, regarding temples and > shoes, it so happened that in a very recent trip to India to > receive the Sahitya Akademi Award for Sanskrit Literature on my > latest kavya S-rii Raadhaapancas-atii, I had the opportunity of > visiting Govardhan. There I found the following verses in an old > inscription in an abandoned temple. To my surprise these verses > refer to the very same issue treated by our learned coleages. > These verses are very simple but in the penultimate one there > appears a query that I am unable to answer. If there is someone > out there who can explain the answer to me I shall be most thakful. > > upaanahor mano dhRtvaa ye yaanti harimandiram > niSphalam dars-anam~ teSaam~ gajasnaanam~ yathaa vRthaa. 1 > > sopaanatkaan vadantyetaan upaanatsu dhRtaatmanah > niSphalam~ dars-anam~ teSaam~ haanis-copaanahoh kvacit. 2 > > sarastiire baalukaayaam~ nihitaaNDaa hi kacchapii > sarovaariNi tiSThantii dhyaayati dhyaanabindunaa. 3 > > yathaaNDaanaam~ karotyeva kuurmii dhyaanena poSaNam~ > tathaa sam~cintayet kRSNam~ baistiSTham~s-ca mandiraat. 4 > > mandire gamanam~ kim~ vaa mandire}gamanam~ tathaa > saarthakam~ tu bhavennuunam~ yasyopaanatsu no manah. 5 > > devaalaye}pi sam~gamya cittam~ yeSaamupaanahoh > Daaridryam~ rogabaahulyam~ teSaam~ sam~jaayate dhruvam. 6 > > kvacit sam~padyate laabho nuutanopaanahorapi > dRSTe sam~moSaNe teSaam upaanadbhih prataaDanam. 7 > > yeSaam~ sam~moSaNe cittam~ kim~ tadaa dars-ane dhiyaa > govardhane kRtam~ paapam~ vajralepo bhaviSyati. 8 > > aalokyate yadi harir manasaa, tatah kim~ > devaalayeSu gamanena, nirarthakam~ tat > naalokyate yadi harir manasaa, tatah kim~ > devaalayeSu gamanena, nirarthakam~ tat. 9 > > devaalayaad bahirathasti manah kadaacit > svopaanahostadiha kim~ haridars-anena > sam~tyajya sarvaviSayaan haripaadamuulam~ > sam~dRSyate yadi tadaiva sudars-anam~ syaat. 10 > > govardhanagiricchatradaNDataam upayaati kah > gRdhraa ityuttaram~ yasya tadevaasyottaram~ bhavet. 11 > > antimasyaasya padyasya tattvam~ jaananti ye budhaah > dars-anam~ saarthakam~ teSaam~ teSaam~ vyaakaraNam~ dRDham. 12 > > By the way the verse first quoted by Narayan S. Raja, found in > Srirangam, seems to me to be an alteration of an original > appearing in Skanda PuraaNa as follows > > aakaas-aat patitam~ toyam~ yathaa gacchati saagaram > sarvadevanamaskaarah kes-avam~ pratigacchati. > > If my esteemed friend Prof. Richard Solomon could not find the > verses in the Epigraphia Idica, surely the ones discovered by me > may also not be there. > I write this from Prof. Preciado^s e/mail address. Any answer is > welcome in this address. > > Rasik Vihari Joshi. > > > > From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov Thu Apr 11 19:19:02 1996 From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 14:19:02 -0500 Subject: Q: Debates Message-ID: <161227023721.23782.3268364225518522186.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have a question: Are there any writings in Sanskrit, Hindi or Tamil, against Muslim invasion of India. Against conversion to Islam, etc., I know in Tamil there are few writings against conversion to Christianity. What about Hindu reaction to Islamization (pre 20th century)?? In 20th century, the modern debates on literary topics was started by Kamban Kazhakam, Karaikkudi. The founder S. Ganesan (1908-1983) was well-known. There were debates on Vali Vadham, who is a better brother: Kumbhakarnan or Vibheeshanan etc., n. ganesan From bprecia at colmex.mx Thu Apr 11 20:29:30 1996 From: bprecia at colmex.mx (Benjamin Preciado Solis) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 14:29:30 -0600 Subject: Temples and shoes (fwd) Message-ID: <161227023724.23782.5477725574622514176.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am forwarding a message from Prof. R.V. Joshi that was sent earlier without success. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:25:32 -0900 (PDT) From: Romer Cornejo To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk Cc: Members of the list Subject: Re: Temples and shoes Dear list members In reference to the verses kindly given by my dear friend Prof. Aklujkar, Prof. Deshpande, and others, regarding temples and shoes, it so happened that in a very recent trip to India to receive the Sahitya Akademi Award for Sanskrit Literature on my latest kavya S-rii Raadhaapancas-atii, I had the opportunity of visiting Govardhan. There I found the following verses in an old inscription in an abandoned temple. To my surprise these verses refer to the very same issue treated by our learned coleages. These verses are very simple but in the penultimate one there appears a query that I am unable to answer. If there is someone out there who can explain the answer to me I shall be most thakful. upaanahor mano dhRtvaa ye yaanti harimandiram niSphalam dars-anam~ teSaam~ gajasnaanam~ yathaa vRthaa. 1 sopaanatkaan vadantyetaan upaanatsu dhRtaatmanah niSphalam~ dars-anam~ teSaam~ haanis-copaanahoh kvacit. 2 sarastiire baalukaayaam~ nihitaaNDaa hi kacchapii sarovaariNi tiSThantii dhyaayati dhyaanabindunaa. 3 yathaaNDaanaam~ karotyeva kuurmii dhyaanena poSaNam~ tathaa sam~cintayet kRSNam~ baistiSTham~s-ca mandiraat. 4 mandire gamanam~ kim~ vaa mandire}gamanam~ tathaa saarthakam~ tu bhavennuunam~ yasyopaanatsu no manah. 5 devaalaye}pi sam~gamya cittam~ yeSaamupaanahoh Daaridryam~ rogabaahulyam~ teSaam~ sam~jaayate dhruvam. 6 kvacit sam~padyate laabho nuutanopaanahorapi dRSTe sam~moSaNe teSaam upaanadbhih prataaDanam. 7 yeSaam~ sam~moSaNe cittam~ kim~ tadaa dars-ane dhiyaa govardhane kRtam~ paapam~ vajralepo bhaviSyati. 8 aalokyate yadi harir manasaa, tatah kim~ devaalayeSu gamanena, nirarthakam~ tat naalokyate yadi harir manasaa, tatah kim~ devaalayeSu gamanena, nirarthakam~ tat. 9 devaalayaad bahirathasti manah kadaacit svopaanahostadiha kim~ haridars-anena sam~tyajya sarvaviSayaan haripaadamuulam~ sam~dRSyate yadi tadaiva sudars-anam~ syaat. 10 govardhanagiricchatradaNDataam upayaati kah gRdhraa ityuttaram~ yasya tadevaasyottaram~ bhavet. 11 antimasyaasya padyasya tattvam~ jaananti ye budhaah dars-anam~ saarthakam~ teSaam~ teSaam~ vyaakaraNam~ dRDham. 12 By the way the verse first quoted by Narayan S. Raja, found in Srirangam, seems to me to be an alteration of an original appearing in Skanda PuraaNa as follows aakaas-aat patitam~ toyam~ yathaa gacchati saagaram sarvadevanamaskaarah kes-avam~ pratigacchati. If my esteemed friend Prof. Richard Solomon could not find the verses in the Epigraphia Idica, surely the ones discovered by me may also not be there. I write this from Prof. Preciado^s e/mail address. Any answer is welcome in this address. Rasik Vihari Joshi. From patton at bard.edu Thu Apr 11 18:31:00 1996 From: patton at bard.edu (Laurie Patton) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 14:31:00 -0400 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023717.23782.8266958333653436348.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> You might begin with the articles contained in a book edited by Kenneth Jones, (Albany: State University of New York Press, 1992). The first section, "Hindu-Christian Polemics," contains a number of interesting pieces relating to your topic: 1) "The Polemical Process in Nineteenth-century Maharashtra: Vishnubawa Brahmachari and Hindu Revival," by Frank Conlon; 2) "Arumuga Navalar and the Hindu Renaissance among the Tamils," by D. Dennis Hudson; 3) "Swami Dayananda's Critique of Christianity," by Kenneth Jones. Each article also contains a bibliographical essay which I have found quite useful. Hope this helps, Laurie L. Patton Dept. of Religion Bard College Annandale-on-Hudson, NY 12504 ******************************************************************* On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Francois Quiviger wrote: > Dear Indologists, > > I am following with keen interest the posting on debating in India. > Can anyone recommend some literature on *Indian* accounts of religious > debates with Christians? I am thinking for example of > Francis Xavier, or Roberto De' Nobili's mission in 17th century > Madurai and of course the debates at the court of Akbar the Great. Usually > we know of this type of event through the reports of the missionaries, > but I would be very interested to ear about Indian accounts. > > With many thanks in advance. > From francois at sas.ac.uk Thu Apr 11 17:04:14 1996 From: francois at sas.ac.uk (Francois Quiviger) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 18:04:14 +0100 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023713.23782.5082918028537305420.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, I am following with keen interest the posting on debating in India. Can anyone recommend some literature on *Indian* accounts of religious debates with Christians? I am thinking for example of Francis Xavier, or Roberto De' Nobili's mission in 17th century Madurai and of course the debates at the court of Akbar the Great. Usually we know of this type of event through the reports of the missionaries, but I would be very interested to ear about Indian accounts. With many thanks in advance. From mudra at inch.com Fri Apr 12 05:26:36 1996 From: mudra at inch.com (mudra at inch.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 01:26:36 -0400 Subject: NON INDOLOGY BUT URGENT ACTION Message-ID: <161227023726.23782.13447542363571613262.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> COME DEMONSTRATE AGAINST BARBARIC AND HORRENDOUS BATTERRER MOHAMMED MOHSIN When: Tomorrow - Saturday, April 13, 1996 at 3 p.m. Where: In front of Mr. Mohsin's home at 169-11 Highland Avenue, Jamaica, New York (corner of Highland Ave. and Homelawn St.; F train to 169 St. in Queens) On September 13, 1995, Mr. Mohammad Mohsin doused his wife Ms. Syeda Sufian, with gasoline and set her on fire. To this day, Syeda suffers from severe burns all over her body. Mr. Mohsin is a batterer who subjected his wife to physical, economic, and emotional violence throughout their marriage. Mr. Mohsin is currently out on bail, awaiting a formal indictment for the crime he committed. Since his release, he and his family have mounted a campaign of terror against Syeda by threathening to kill her. SAKHI for South Asian Women, an organization fighting violence against women, is asking everyone to join us this Saturday to show our support for Syeda. WE demand that Mr. Mohsin be held accountable for his heinous crime. We demand JUSTICE for Syeda and all battered women. YOUR PRESENCE WILL COUNT VERY MUCH GIVEN THE ALMOST OVERNIGHT PLANNING OF THIS CALL FOR MOBILIZATION From mrabe at artic.edu Fri Apr 12 12:11:44 1996 From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 07:11:44 -0500 Subject: NON INDOLOGY BUT URGENT ACTION Message-ID: <161227023737.23782.15798470435831694062.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >venantius pinto said: >> >> COME DEMONSTRATE AGAINST BARBARIC AND HORRENDOUS BATTERRER MOHAMMED MOHSIN >[...] > > >The person who posted this message has been given a first warning about >using INDOLOGY as a means for circulating non-indological materials. > >Three such warnings result in being struck from the INDOLOGY list. > >Of course I am horrified by the behaviour described by the poster, and >sympathize with the protest against such barbarism. However, such >emotions to not constitute a valid reason for posting a message to >INDOLOGY which does not concern indological studies. > >Dominik Wujastyk But what if it prompts a cultural note by Paul Courtright (or someone else that's studied _sutee_) on the order of his learned commentary on the varied agendas of colonial-period indologists? And wasn't there a call for participation at a Harvard conference on wife-burning on this list? Maybe these topics are too combustible to risk starting a thread/fuse, and I am certainly not equating to two, but still...during my last year in India ('90-91) when there were all those Mandal-commission protests that led to self-immolation AND a few of the "aidding and abbetting" type where the victims were willing participants, I couldn't help but suspect that mythic and or historic precedents may be relevant. Or maybe not: at least I'd like someone to try and persuade me of their irrelevance. Michael Rabe From mrabe at artic.edu Fri Apr 12 12:28:27 1996 From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 07:28:27 -0500 Subject: NON INDOLOGY BUT URGENT ACTION Message-ID: <161227023739.23782.12068826082931238751.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> [will apologies, I reiterate with the one missing word replaced in caps...] >venantius pinto said: >> >> COME DEMONSTRATE AGAINST BARBARIC AND HORRENDOUS BATTERRER MOHAMMED MOHSIN >[...] > > >The person who posted this message has been given a first warning about >using INDOLOGY as a means for circulating non-indological materials. > >Three such warnings result in being struck from the INDOLOGY list. > >Of course I am horrified by the behaviour described by the poster, and >sympathize with the protest against such barbarism. However, such >emotions to not constitute a valid reason for posting a message to >INDOLOGY which does not concern indological studies. > >Dominik Wujastyk But what if it prompts a cultural note by Paul Courtright (or someone else that's studied _sutee_) on the order of his learned commentary on the varied agendas of colonial-period indologists? And wasn't there a call for participation at a Harvard conference on wife-burning on this list? Maybe these topics are too combustible to risk starting a thread/fuse, and I am certainly not equating to two, but still...during my last year in India ('90-91) when there were all those Mandal-commission protests that led to self-immolation AND a few of the "aidding and abbetting" type where the victims were NOT willing participants, I couldn't help but suspect that mythic and or historic precedents may be relevant. Or maybe not: at least I'd like someone to try and persuade me of their irrelevance. Michael Rabe From AmitaSarin at aol.com Fri Apr 12 11:31:23 1996 From: AmitaSarin at aol.com (AmitaSarin at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 07:31:23 -0400 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023735.23782.12051331443257883127.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In answer to Francois Quiviger's query about Indian versions of debates with Christians, I can recommend S.A.A. Rizvi's Religious and Intellectual History of the Muslims in Akbar's Reign (Munshiram Manoharlal, 1975). Chapter 3 on religious discussions contains a section on the Christians at Akbar's court (pp. 131-6) with references to Abul Fazl's and Badaoni's accounts. Hope this is helpful. Amita Sarin From sohum at ms.uky.edu Fri Apr 12 12:59:28 1996 From: sohum at ms.uky.edu (sohum at ms.uky.edu) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 08:59:28 -0400 Subject: Initial capital Message-ID: <161227023741.23782.10095008194795717419.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Fri, 12 Apr 1996 Mikael Aktor wrote: ||It's irritating that initial capitals in mames look ambiguous when used ||together with the Kyoto-Harvard convention. Like for instance: GaGgA, ||JJAnezvara, etc. But it is also problematic to skip them in for instance ||kRSNa, when this is a name and not only a color. Could we agree upon a ||common marker put before initial capital, for instance ":" ? The above ||examples would then be: :GaGgA, :JJAnezvara, and :KRSNa. The choice has to ||bee a sign which is not taken as a part of the word by various search ||programs, and which can not be mistaken for other signs that one may want to ||use before a word, for instance quotation marks. Other suggestions? Or is ||ASCII-Sanskrit already too weird for further complications? I agree completely. I find that the Itrans convention of enclosing words in a different script between ## ## is good and very convenient. So if the major message is in English, we should write Krishna or ##kRSNa## to use Aktor's example. If people are using a certain convention, be it Kyoto-Harvard, or Velthuis or Itrans, they might also consider a footnote (in their signature) to that effect and we might be able to come up with scripts to automatically reformat/print in any desired medium. -- |Avinash Sathaye Phone:(606)277-0130(Home), (606)257-8832(Office) | And now, the next thought is from our CPU ... >>>>>>>>>>>> The lion and the calf shall lie down together but the calf won't get much sleep. -- Woody Allen From DESIKACHARYK at wl.aecl.ca Fri Apr 12 13:41:14 1996 From: DESIKACHARYK at wl.aecl.ca (DESIKACHARYK at wl.aecl.ca) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 09:41:14 -0400 Subject: Sujata's story Message-ID: <161227023743.23782.12854383468971977746.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear friends, I am looking for reference(s) where the story of SujAta, the noble lady who had a dream about the fasting SiddhArtha, and fed him at the conclusion of his fast with food served in a golden plate. I am sure, this episode must be described in some buddhist literature, but I don't know where. I will be grateful if someone points me the right direction. Thanks. regards, Desikachary From mmdesh at umich.edu Fri Apr 12 14:03:07 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 10:03:07 -0400 Subject: new questions Message-ID: <161227023745.23782.2346162377770293837.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Currently I am reading a text in Sanskrit called VedavicaaraH by an author Dvivedi DraviDa Shyaamashaastrii. This was published from Vai in Maharashtra with a Marathi translation in 1912. Has anyone heard of this author in any other context? Secondly, if anyone has access to Mss catalogues from Vai, would you please check for me if this text is listed in their collection. Finally, the text several times refers to an author 'raamaaNDaara' (for example: raamaaNDaarair uktam). The Marathi translator keeps this exactly as is. I have a hunch that this is a shortform for something like raajamaartaNDakaara. There is a Dharmashastra text by this title listed by PV Kane, but again I do not have access to it at the moment. May be Ludo or Rosane Rocher may have seen this text and its possible abbreviation. Would love to hear from all those experts out there. Thanks. Madhav Deshpande From bprecia at colmex.mx Fri Apr 12 17:22:56 1996 From: bprecia at colmex.mx (Benjamin Preciado Solis) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 11:22:56 -0600 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227023775.23782.483434467145166323.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am trying once again to post this letter. Some difficulty was encountered before. B. Preciado From rcornejo at colmex.mx Mon Apr 8 22:25:32 1996 From: rcornejo at colmex.mx (Romer Cornejo) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:25:32 -0900 (PDT) Subject: Temples and shoes In-Reply-To: <199603122148.NAA00758@unixg.ubc.ca> Message-ID: Dear list members In reference to the verses kindly given by my dear friend Prof. Aklujkar, Prof. Deshpande, and others, regarding temples and shoes, it so happened that in a very recent trip to India to receive the Sahitya Akademi Award for Sanskrit Literature on my latest kavya S-rii Raadhaapancas-atii, I had the opportunity of visiting Govardhan. There I found the following verses in an old inscription in an abandoned temple. To my surprise these verses refer to the very same issue treated by our learned coleages. These verses are very simple but in the penultimate one there appears a query that I am unable to answer. If there is someone out there who can explain the answer to me I shall be most thakful. upaanahor mano dhRtvaa ye yaanti harimandiram niSphalam dars-anam~ teSaam~ gajasnaanam~ yathaa vRthaa. 1 sopaanatkaan vadantyetaan upaanatsu dhRtaatmanah niSphalam~ dars-anam~ teSaam~ haanis-copaanahoh kvacit. 2 sarastiire baalukaayaam~ nihitaaNDaa hi kacchapii sarovaariNi tiSThantii dhyaayati dhyaanabindunaa. 3 yathaaNDaanaam~ karotyeva kuurmii dhyaanena poSaNam~ tathaa sam~cintayet kRSNam~ baistiSTham~s-ca mandiraat. 4 mandire gamanam~ kim~ vaa mandire}gamanam~ tathaa saarthakam~ tu bhavennuunam~ yasyopaanatsu no manah. 5 devaalaye}pi sam~gamya cittam~ yeSaamupaanahoh Daaridryam~ rogabaahulyam~ teSaam~ sam~jaayate dhruvam. 6 kvacit sam~padyate laabho nuutanopaanahorapi dRSTe sam~moSaNe teSaam upaanadbhih prataaDanam. 7 yeSaam~ sam~moSaNe cittam~ kim~ tadaa dars-ane dhiyaa govardhane kRtam~ paapam~ vajralepo bhaviSyati. 8 aalokyate yadi harir manasaa, tatah kim~ devaalayeSu gamanena, nirarthakam~ tat naalokyate yadi harir manasaa, tatah kim~ devaalayeSu gamanena, nirarthakam~ tat. 9 devaalayaad bahirathasti manah kadaacit svopaanahostadiha kim~ haridars-anena sam~tyajya sarvaviSayaan haripaadamuulam~ sam~dRSyate yadi tadaiva sudars-anam~ syaat. 10 govardhanagiricchatradaNDataam upayaati kah gRdhraa ityuttaram~ yasya tadevaasyottaram~ bhavet. 11 antimasyaasya padyasya tattvam~ jaananti ye budhaah dars-anam~ saarthakam~ teSaam~ teSaam~ vyaakaraNam~ dRDham. 12 By the way the verse first quoted by Narayan S. Raja, found in Srirangam, seems to me to be an alteration of an original appearing in Skanda PuraaNa as follows aakaas-aat patitam~ toyam~ yathaa gacchati saagaram sarvadevanamaskaarah kes-avam~ pratigacchati. If my esteemed friend Prof. Richard Solomon could not find the verses in the Epigraphia Idica, surely the ones discovered by me may also not be there. I write this from Prof. Preciado^s e/mail address. Any answer is welcome in this address. Rasik Vihari Joshi. From rcornejo at colmex.mx Wed Apr 10 19:53:32 1996 From: rcornejo at colmex.mx (Romer Cornejo) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 10:53:32 -0900 (PDT) Subject: Epic and Puranic Bibliography In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Luis, todavia no ha llegado tu carta con los 10 dolares. Muchas gracias por la referencia a la bibliografia puranica, no la conocia, vamos a pedirla para la biblioteca. Ayer enviamos Joshi y yo un mensaje a la lista de Indologia. Joshi plantea una pregunta en sanscrito, sera interesante ver las respuestas. saludos Benjamin. On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Luis Arnold Gonzalez-Reimann wrote: > > Benjamin, > > Espero que hayas recibido mi mensaje de hace como un par de semanas. Te > preguntaba si te habian llegado 10 dolares que te envie por correo. > > Te mando esta nota para sugerirte pedir un libro para la biblioteca de El > Colegio si es que no lo han pedido ya. Se llama Epic and Puranic > Bibliography, en dos vols. Lo publica Otto Harrassowitz, y el editor > general es Heinrich von Stietencron (1992). > Lo vi por primera vez hace unos dias y esta muy bien. Tiene indices de > autores pero tambien por temas. Eso si, sin duda es caro. > > Saludos a Joshi, > > Luis > From bprecia at colmex.mx Thu Apr 11 20:18:53 1996 From: bprecia at colmex.mx (Benjamin Preciado Solis) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 14:18:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: Temples and shoes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Apr 1996, Romer Cornejo wrote: > Dear list members > In reference to the verses kindly given by my dear friend Prof. > Aklujkar, Prof. Deshpande, and others, regarding temples and > shoes, it so happened that in a very recent trip to India to > receive the Sahitya Akademi Award for Sanskrit Literature on my > latest kavya S-rii Raadhaapancas-atii, I had the opportunity of > visiting Govardhan. There I found the following verses in an old > inscription in an abandoned temple. To my surprise these verses > refer to the very same issue treated by our learned coleages. > These verses are very simple but in the penultimate one there > appears a query that I am unable to answer. If there is someone > out there who can explain the answer to me I shall be most thakful. > > upaanahor mano dhRtvaa ye yaanti harimandiram > niSphalam dars-anam~ teSaam~ gajasnaanam~ yathaa vRthaa. 1 > > sopaanatkaan vadantyetaan upaanatsu dhRtaatmanah > niSphalam~ dars-anam~ teSaam~ haanis-copaanahoh kvacit. 2 > > sarastiire baalukaayaam~ nihitaaNDaa hi kacchapii > sarovaariNi tiSThantii dhyaayati dhyaanabindunaa. 3 > > yathaaNDaanaam~ karotyeva kuurmii dhyaanena poSaNam~ > tathaa sam~cintayet kRSNam~ baistiSTham~s-ca mandiraat. 4 > > mandire gamanam~ kim~ vaa mandire}gamanam~ tathaa > saarthakam~ tu bhavennuunam~ yasyopaanatsu no manah. 5 > > devaalaye}pi sam~gamya cittam~ yeSaamupaanahoh > Daaridryam~ rogabaahulyam~ teSaam~ sam~jaayate dhruvam. 6 > > kvacit sam~padyate laabho nuutanopaanahorapi > dRSTe sam~moSaNe teSaam upaanadbhih prataaDanam. 7 > > yeSaam~ sam~moSaNe cittam~ kim~ tadaa dars-ane dhiyaa > govardhane kRtam~ paapam~ vajralepo bhaviSyati. 8 > > aalokyate yadi harir manasaa, tatah kim~ > devaalayeSu gamanena, nirarthakam~ tat > naalokyate yadi harir manasaa, tatah kim~ > devaalayeSu gamanena, nirarthakam~ tat. 9 > > devaalayaad bahirathasti manah kadaacit > svopaanahostadiha kim~ haridars-anena > sam~tyajya sarvaviSayaan haripaadamuulam~ > sam~dRSyate yadi tadaiva sudars-anam~ syaat. 10 > > govardhanagiricchatradaNDataam upayaati kah > gRdhraa ityuttaram~ yasya tadevaasyottaram~ bhavet. 11 > > antimasyaasya padyasya tattvam~ jaananti ye budhaah > dars-anam~ saarthakam~ teSaam~ teSaam~ vyaakaraNam~ dRDham. 12 > > By the way the verse first quoted by Narayan S. Raja, found in > Srirangam, seems to me to be an alteration of an original > appearing in Skanda PuraaNa as follows > > aakaas-aat patitam~ toyam~ yathaa gacchati saagaram > sarvadevanamaskaarah kes-avam~ pratigacchati. > > If my esteemed friend Prof. Richard Solomon could not find the > verses in the Epigraphia Idica, surely the ones discovered by me > may also not be there. > I write this from Prof. Preciado^s e/mail address. Any answer is > welcome in this address. > > Rasik Vihari Joshi. > > > > From bprecia at colmex.mx Thu Apr 11 20:29:30 1996 From: bprecia at colmex.mx (Benjamin Preciado Solis) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 14:29:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: Temples and shoes (fwd) Message-ID: I am forwarding a message from Prof. R.V. Joshi that was sent earlier without success. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:25:32 -0900 (PDT) From: Romer Cornejo To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk Cc: Members of the list Subject: Re: Temples and shoes Dear list members In reference to the verses kindly given by my dear friend Prof. Aklujkar, Prof. Deshpande, and others, regarding temples and shoes, it so happened that in a very recent trip to India to receive the Sahitya Akademi Award for Sanskrit Literature on my latest kavya S-rii Raadhaapancas-atii, I had the opportunity of visiting Govardhan. There I found the following verses in an old inscription in an abandoned temple. To my surprise these verses refer to the very same issue treated by our learned coleages. These verses are very simple but in the penultimate one there appears a query that I am unable to answer. If there is someone out there who can explain the answer to me I shall be most thakful. upaanahor mano dhRtvaa ye yaanti harimandiram niSphalam dars-anam~ teSaam~ gajasnaanam~ yathaa vRthaa. 1 sopaanatkaan vadantyetaan upaanatsu dhRtaatmanah niSphalam~ dars-anam~ teSaam~ haanis-copaanahoh kvacit. 2 sarastiire baalukaayaam~ nihitaaNDaa hi kacchapii sarovaariNi tiSThantii dhyaayati dhyaanabindunaa. 3 yathaaNDaanaam~ karotyeva kuurmii dhyaanena poSaNam~ tathaa sam~cintayet kRSNam~ baistiSTham~s-ca mandiraat. 4 mandire gamanam~ kim~ vaa mandire}gamanam~ tathaa saarthakam~ tu bhavennuunam~ yasyopaanatsu no manah. 5 devaalaye}pi sam~gamya cittam~ yeSaamupaanahoh Daaridryam~ rogabaahulyam~ teSaam~ sam~jaayate dhruvam. 6 kvacit sam~padyate laabho nuutanopaanahorapi dRSTe sam~moSaNe teSaam upaanadbhih prataaDanam. 7 yeSaam~ sam~moSaNe cittam~ kim~ tadaa dars-ane dhiyaa govardhane kRtam~ paapam~ vajralepo bhaviSyati. 8 aalokyate yadi harir manasaa, tatah kim~ devaalayeSu gamanena, nirarthakam~ tat naalokyate yadi harir manasaa, tatah kim~ devaalayeSu gamanena, nirarthakam~ tat. 9 devaalayaad bahirathasti manah kadaacit svopaanahostadiha kim~ haridars-anena sam~tyajya sarvaviSayaan haripaadamuulam~ sam~dRSyate yadi tadaiva sudars-anam~ syaat. 10 govardhanagiricchatradaNDataam upayaati kah gRdhraa ityuttaram~ yasya tadevaasyottaram~ bhavet. 11 antimasyaasya padyasya tattvam~ jaananti ye budhaah dars-anam~ saarthakam~ teSaam~ teSaam~ vyaakaraNam~ dRDham. 12 By the way the verse first quoted by Narayan S. Raja, found in Srirangam, seems to me to be an alteration of an original appearing in Skanda PuraaNa as follows aakaas-aat patitam~ toyam~ yathaa gacchati saagaram sarvadevanamaskaarah kes-avam~ pratigacchati. If my esteemed friend Prof. Richard Solomon could not find the verses in the Epigraphia Idica, surely the ones discovered by me may also not be there. I write this from Prof. Preciado^s e/mail address. Any answer is welcome in this address. Rasik Vihari Joshi. From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Fri Apr 12 11:33:49 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 11:33:49 +0000 Subject: your TIME posting Message-ID: <161227023728.23782.10886933000627418130.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Ganesan, As has often been said in this forum, the rule of thumb for INDOLOGY postings is to keep them to one or two screenfuls. That is about 4k. Please do not post long postings such as the Time article again. Feel free to draw people's attention to its existence and interest, but please do not submit the whole text. Especially in the present case, the publication is very widely available at newsagents, and there is no problem whatsoever in anyone finding and reading it. We all discover interesting, India-related articles all the time. The latest issues of JRAS and JAOS, for example, have highly important review articles about the history of writing in India, and the date of the Buddha, which are of interest to the general reader as well as to professional indologists. But we can't all just type out and mass-email copies of everything we find interesting to every member of INDOLOGY. All other considerations of bandwidth, etc., apart, your posting is a gross breach of copyright, which could easily get you intro trouble with the publishers of Time magazine. It could conceivably cause trouble for the INDOLOGY list too, if the publishers decided to take an aggressive attitude to your copyright infringement and pursue us as distributors. Dominik Wujastyk From garzilli at shore.net Fri Apr 12 15:39:57 1996 From: garzilli at shore.net (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 11:39:57 -0400 Subject: NON INDOLOGY BUT URGENT ACTION etc. Message-ID: <161227023772.23782.9205422801688456455.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This theme can be treated in a very "Indological" way, and still does not loose anything of its social and political impact. It is in press in the IIJ one of my papers: *First Greek and Latin Documents on Sahagamana and Some Connected Problems* Part 1 (pp. 39): I analyze contemporary Indological schoalrship on the topic, and Western and Indian contemporary historiography on that. Then I present and analyze the Indian Documents (historical, literary, etc.) on Sahagamana (or Sati). Part 2 (pp. 27) I present and analyze the first unknown (and mostly never traslated before) Greek and Latin documents (by historians, poets, and rhetors), and, what a surprise, documents from one of the four Doctors of the Catholic Roman Church, Hieronymus (347-419/420 A.D.) who was the first Catholic to use and create documents on women of other religions for religious/political purposes (but Cicero and all the others have done the same in their respective winning cultures). The last part is an analysis of the Western re-elaboration and use of Indian oral and written documents. I doubted a lot of the documentary validity of them: in many cases they are a sort of juducial fabrications, created *ad hoc* to glorify the Greek culture first, then the Roman, after that the Christian: there have been -- for 2300 years -- stereotypes to glorify the culture of the "winners" (Greeks on Indians, Roman on Greeks, Christians on Romans, capitalistic culture on anybody). I underline the contemporary Indological feminism, and on the other side Hindu (a certain Hindu's party) use of these documents and themes. BTW, Hieronymous asserts that Buddha was the founder of the sect of the *gimnosofistas* (known as *sophistes* or *sopeites* by Alexander's historians), born from a side of a virgin (like Mary is virgin and Eve was created from Adam's side)! This is absolutely new in the all Greek and Latin literature (see part 2, fn. 177). Hopefully the paper will be out in the IIJ by December (BTW, I sent it, under request, to many professors here around, such as Courtright in Septemebr 1995). I agree with Michael Rabe that the topic is tragically present, tehrefore, it can be studied in its origin, etiology, documents, etc. Sati and dowry deaths have a long history behind. Is it not Indologists' job to study the past *also* to understand the present? Moreover, is not present born from the past and from the individual and collective idea and representation of the future? You can also see the Journal of South Asia Women Studies (http://www.shore.net/~india/jsaws/), where these themes are and will be both scholarly treated, and translated, discussed, and interpreted in contemporary reality. Dott. Enrica Garzilli garzilli at hulaw1.harvard.edu Editor-in-Chief, IJTS and JSAWS (http://www.shore.net/~india/) ***************************************************************** On Fri, 12 Apr 1996, Michael Rabe wrote: > >venantius pinto said: > > But what if it prompts a cultural note by Paul Courtright (or someone else > that's studied _sutee_) on the order of his learned commentary on the > varied agendas of colonial-period indologists? And wasn't there a call for > participation at a Harvard conference on wife-burning on this list? Maybe > these topics are too combustible to risk starting a thread/fuse, and I am > certainly not equating to two, but still...during my last year in India > ('90-91) when there were all those Mandal-commission protests that led to > self-immolation AND a few of the "aidding and abbetting" type where the > victims were willing participants, I couldn't help but suspect that mythic > and or historic precedents may be relevant. Or maybe not: at least I'd > like someone to try and persuade me of their irrelevance. > > Michael Rabe > > > From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Fri Apr 12 11:48:28 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 11:48:28 +0000 Subject: NON INDOLOGY BUT URGENT ACTION Message-ID: <161227023730.23782.12429580379531792089.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> venantius pinto said: > > COME DEMONSTRATE AGAINST BARBARIC AND HORRENDOUS BATTERRER MOHAMMED MOHSIN [...] The person who posted this message has been given a first warning about using INDOLOGY as a means for circulating non-indological materials. Three such warnings result in being struck from the INDOLOGY list. Of course I am horrified by the behaviour described by the poster, and sympathize with the protest against such barbarism. However, such emotions to not constitute a valid reason for posting a message to INDOLOGY which does not concern indological studies. Dominik Wujastyk From jl6 at soas.ac.uk Fri Apr 12 11:59:54 1996 From: jl6 at soas.ac.uk (Julia Leslie) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 11:59:54 +0000 Subject: Conspiracy theory Message-ID: <161227023731.23782.16120747029389366890.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have been reading Karl Popper's 'Towards a Rational Theory of Tradition', ch. 4 in his Conjectures and Refutations (5th revised edition, 1989) -- with a view to considering the 'conspiracy theory' in the context of brahminical orthodoxy; i.e. the popular notion of a brahmin plot to oppress and control other ethnic groups, varnas/jatis, and women. ( N.B. Popper's chapter does not mention India.) Can anyone direct me to further work on this, either responses to Popper or analyses of the brahmin connection? I would be much obliged. Julia Leslie SOAS University of London From bprecia at colmex.mx Fri Apr 12 18:02:42 1996 From: bprecia at colmex.mx (Benjamin Preciado Solis) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 12:02:42 -0600 Subject: newly discovered inscription Message-ID: <161227023777.23782.3459074505682453854.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I forward a letter from Prof. R.V.Joshi: Dear list members In reference to the verses kindly given by my dear friend Prof. Aklujkar, Prof. Deshpande, and others, regardig temples and shoes, it so happened that in a very recent trip to India to receive the Sahitya Akademi Award for Sanskrit Literature on my latest kavya zriiraadhaapancazatii, I had the opportunity of visiting Govardhan. There I found the following verses in an old inscription in an abandoned temple. To my surprise these verses refered to the very same issue treated by our learned colleagues. These verses are very simple, but in the penultimate one there appears a query that I am unable to answer. If there is someone out there who can explain the answer to me I shall be most thankfyl. Zrii govardhano vijayate upaanahor mano dhRtvaa ye yaanti harimandiram niSphalam' darzanam' teSaam' gajasnaanam' yathaa vRthaa. 1 sopaanatkaan vadantyetaan upaanatsu dhRtaatmanah niSphalam' darzanam' teSaam' hanizcopaanahoh kvacit. 2 sarastiire baalukaayaam' nihitaaNDaa hi kacchapii sarovaariNii tiSThanti dhyaayati dhyaanabindunaa. 3 yathaaNDaanaam' karotyeva kuurmii dhyaanena poSaNam' tathaa sam'cintayet kRSNam' bahistiSTham'zca mandiraat. 4 mandire gamanam' kim' vaa mandire}gamanam' tathaa saarthakam' tu bhavennuunam' yasyopaanatsu no manah. 5 devaalaye}pi sam'gamya cittam' yeSaamupaanahoh daaridryam' rogabaahulyam' teSaam' sam?jaayate dhruvam. 6 kvacit sam'padyate laabho nuutanopaanahorapi dRSte sam'moSaNe teSaam upaanadbhih prataaDanam. 7 yeSaam' Sam'moSaNe cittam' kim' tadaa darzane dhiyaa govardhane kRtam' paapam' vajralepo bhaviSyati. 8 aalokyate yadi harir manasaa, tatah kim' devaalayeSu gamanena, nirarthakam' tat naalokyate yadi harir manasaa, tatah kim' devaalayeSu gamanena, nirarthakam' tat. 9 devaalayaad bahirathaasti manah kadaacit svopaanahostadiha kim' haridarzanena sam'tyajya sarvaviSayaan haripaadamuulam' sam'dRSyate yadi tadaiva sudarzanam' syaat. 10 govardhanagiricchatradaNDataam upayaati kah gRdhraa ityuttaram' yasya tadevaasyottaram' bhavet. 11 antimasyaasya padyasya tattvam' jaananti ye budhaah darzanam' saarthakam' teSaam' teSaam' vyaakaraNam' dRDham. 12 By the way the verse first quoted by Narayana S. Raja, found in Srirangam seems to me to be an alteration of an original appearing in Skanda PuraaNa as follows: aakaaazaat patitam' toyam' yathaa gacchati saagaram sarvadevanamaskaarah kezavam' pratigacchati If my estteemed friend Prof. Richard Solomon could not find the verses in the Epigraphia Indica, surely the ones discovered by me may also not be there. I write this from Prof. Benjamin Preciado's e-mail address. Any answer is welcome in this address. Rasik Vihari Joshi. From aktor at coco.ihi.ku.dk Fri Apr 12 11:12:21 1996 From: aktor at coco.ihi.ku.dk (Mikael Aktor) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 13:12:21 +0200 Subject: Initial capital Message-ID: <161227023733.23782.4085009420692104511.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members, This is a triffle, and probably one that has been discussed a lot before. Nevertheless ... It's irritating that initial capitals in mames look ambiguous when used together with the Kyoto-Harvard convention. Like for instance: GaGgA, JJAnezvara, etc. But it is also problematic to skip them in for instance kRSNa, when this is a name and not only a color. Could we agree upon a common marker put before initial capital, for instance ":" ? The above examples would then be: :GaGgA, :JJAnezvara, and :KRSNa. The choice has to bee a sign which is not taken as a part of the word by various search programs, and which can not be mistaken for other signs that one may want to use before a word, for instance quotation marks. Other suggestions? Or is ASCII-Sanskrit already too weird for further complications? Regards Mikael Aktor, Institute for History of Religions, University of Copenhagen, Njalsgade 80, DK-2300 Copenhagen S, Denmark. aktor at coco.ihi.ku.dk From jonathan.silk at wmich.edu Fri Apr 12 18:39:45 1996 From: jonathan.silk at wmich.edu (jonathan.silk at wmich.edu) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 14:39:45 -0400 Subject: Request for E-mail address - GERMANY Message-ID: <161227023779.23782.15044148514051815678.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I think it is pretty certain that YUYAMA Akira has no email at present, but his private address is: Rothenbaumchaussee 34 D- Hamburg ---oops, my numberpad key does not seem to work in email mode!! D-20148 -- the rest is correct. From jonathan.silk at wmich.edu Fri Apr 12 18:42:07 1996 From: jonathan.silk at wmich.edu (jonathan.silk at wmich.edu) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 14:42:07 -0400 Subject: Request for E-mail address - JAPAN Message-ID: <161227023781.23782.7611302036174231359.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Nakatani Hideaki is now at Tokyo University; no email. From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Fri Apr 12 16:31:38 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 16:31:38 +0000 Subject: NON INDOLOGY BUT URGENT ACTION Message-ID: <161227023770.23782.5559876905442877409.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Michael Rabe said: > But what if it prompts a cultural note by Paul Courtright [...] Then I'll excommunicate Paul, all his friends, and anyone who mentions it again. Or even thinks of mentioning it. Surely you've realized by now that my agenda is to reduce he number of INDOLOGY members to a comfortable and manageable quantity of exactly one! :-) [...] > Maybe these topics are too combustible to risk starting a thread/fuse, Seriously, though, this isn't about combustibility, but about relevance. I'm all for igniting discussions on combustible issues to do with the indological study of classical India. And there are several such issues. But an invitation to a Saturday demo isn't Indology, whichever way you look at it. Dominik From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Fri Apr 12 20:22:58 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 20:22:58 +0000 Subject: Invitation for the Xth World Sanskrit Conference - 1997 , Bangalore, India Message-ID: <161227023747.23782.13551411088532243380.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, You are cordially invited to attend the Xth World Sanskrit Conference to be held in Bangalore, Karnataka, India, early next year (3-9 January 1997). Those of you who have not received or filled in the printed Response Form may kindly use the Electronic Response Form appended below and email it to us. For your information, the following is the updated list of sections for which paper proposals are invited on or before 15th May 1996. 1 Agamas and Tantras 2 Art, Architecture and Archaeology 3 Buddhist Studies 4 Classical Sanskrit Literature 5 Dharma Shastra and Artha Shastra 6 Epics and Puranas 7 Hindu Studies 8 Jaina Studies 9 Manuscripts and Historical Resources 10 Modern Sanskrit Literature 11 Music and Performing Arts 12 Philosophies (Darshanas) 13 Poetics and Aesthetics 14 Sanskrit and Regional Languages 15 Sanskrit Scientific Literature 16 Sanskrit Medical Literature 17 Sanskrit and the Environment 18 Sanskrit and Computer 19 Veda and Vedangas 20 Vyakarana and Linguistics This may also be forwarded to those who are interested in attending the conference. We look forward for your participation. With kind regards Yours sincerely Dr S Siddaiah Co-ordinator _____________________________________________________ Secretariat Xth World Sanskrit Conference TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032 India Tel: +91-80-3430017 +91-80-3332759 Fax: +91-80-3334541 E-mail: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indnet.wscx.html ____________________________________________________________________________ Below is the Electronic Response Form. Please fill in appropriately and do not edit any line ____________________________________________________________________________ Xth WORLD SANSKRIT CONFERENCE (3-9 January 1997) BANGALORE, INDIA _____________________________________________________________ ELECTRONIC RESPONSE FORM Code No: _____________________________________________________________ 1. Title (Dr/Prof) : 2. Name : 3. Last Name : 4. Male/Female : 5. Position : 6. Institution : 7. University : _____________________________________________________________ 8. Address : ___________________________________________________________ 9. Country : _____________________________________________________________ 10. Phone (Home) : 11. Phone (Office) : 12. Fax : 13. E-mail : _____________________________________________________________ 14. Field(s) of Study: _____________________________________________________________ 15. Check one [ x ]: [ ] Yes, I intend to attend the conference. [ ] No, I am not able to attend the conference. [ ] Undecided, but please continue to send me more information about the conference. _____________________________________________________________ 16. The sections I am interested in are: (Please check [ x ] as many sections as you wish to participate in) [ ] 1 Agamas and Tantras [ ] 2 Art, Architecture and Archaeology [ ] 3 Buddhist Studies [ ] 4 Classical Sanskrit Literature [ ] 5 Dharma Shastra and Artha Shastra [ ] 6 Epics and Puranas [ ] 7 Hindu Studies [ ] 8 Jaina Studies [ ] 9 Manuscripts and Historical Resources [ ] 10 Modern Sanskrit Literature [ ] 11 Music and Performing Arts [ ] 12 Philosophies (Darshanas) [ ] 13 Poetics and Aesthetics [ ] 14 Sanskrit and Regional Languages [ ] 15 Sanskrit Scientific Literature [ ] 16 Sanskrit Medical Literature [ ] 17 Sanskrit and the Environment [ ] 18 Sanskrit and Computer [ ] 19 Veda and Vedangas [ ] 20 Vyakarana and Linguistics _____________________________________________________________ 17. I intend to present my paper in the Section: _____________________________________________________________ 18. The title of my paper is: _____________________________________________________________ 19. I suggest that information about this conference be sent to the following persons (Please give their full address/E-mail): ____________________________________________________________ Thank you!  From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Fri Apr 12 20:23:34 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 20:23:34 +0000 Subject: Request for E-mail address - AUSTRALIA & AUSTRIA Message-ID: <161227023762.23782.7688098090164377756.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ================================================ Xth WORLD SANSKRIT CONFERENCE, BANGALORE, INDIA (3-9 January 1997) ================================================ Dear Indologists, We are in need of the e-mail address of the following scholars for quick communication. We have checked the indology group and did not find these in the list. We earnestly request you to inform us as many e-mail addresses as you can in the field E-MAIL provided against the names below. The names are given in the alphabetical order Thank you in advance for sparing your valuable time. Dr S Siddaiah Co-ordinator _____________________________________________________ ================== AUSTRALIA & AUSTRIA ================== _______________________________________________________ 4901 Rev. John Robert Dupuche, Student, La Trobe University AUSTRALIA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 6475 Mr. Royce Wiles, Ph.D Candidate, Australian National University AUSTRALIA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4156 Dr Alvis Wurm, Lecturer, Universitat Wien AUSTRIA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4097 Dr Chlodwig H Werba, Assistant Professor, University of Vienna AUSTRIA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ Thank you ! ============================== Secretariat Xth World Sanskrit Conference TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032 India Tel: +91-80-3430017 +91-80-3332759 Fax: +91-80-3334541 E-mail: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indnet.wscx.html ======================================  From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Fri Apr 12 20:23:49 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 20:23:49 +0000 Subject: Request for E-mail address - CANADA & USA Message-ID: <161227023750.23782.6220929817748388621.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ================================================ Xth WORLD SANSKRIT CONFERENCE, BANGALORE, INDIA (3-9 January 1997) ================================================ Dear Indologists, We are in need of the e-mail address of the following scholars for quick communication. We have checked the indology group and did not find these in the list. We earnestly request you to inform us as many e-mail addresses as you can in the field E-MAIL provided against the names below. The names are given in the alphabetical order Thank you in advance for sparing your valuable time. Dr S Siddaiah Co-ordinator _____________________________________________________ ============== CANADA & USA =============== ______________________________________________________________ 4814 Dr. Mahesh M Mehta, University of Windsor CANADA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 2830 Prof T. S. Rukmani, Professor, Concordia University, CANADA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 2708 Prof Dr Alex Wayman Professor Emeritus of Sanskrit Columbia University USA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4673 Prof David E Pingree Professor Brown University USA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 2447 Dr Jag Deva Singh Former Proffesor & Head of Linguistics Kurukshetra University USA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4241 Dr Jose Vicente Pereira Professor Fordham University USA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4418 Prof Dr Padmanabh S Jaini Professor of Buddhist Studies (Retd) University of California USA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 1552 Mrs. Signe Marie Jansen Graduate Student University of Oslo, Norway USA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ Thank you ! ============================== Secretariat Xth World Sanskrit Conference TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032 India Tel: +91-80-3430017 +91-80-3332759 Fax: +91-80-3334541 E-mail: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indnet.wscx.html ======================================  From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Fri Apr 12 20:24:10 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 20:24:10 +0000 Subject: Request for E-mail address - FRANCE Message-ID: <161227023764.23782.11215957568072806513.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ================================================ Xth WORLD SANSKRIT CONFERENCE, BANGALORE, INDIA (3-9 January 1997) ================================================ Dear Indologists, We are in need of the e-mail address of the following scholars for quick communication. We have checked the indology group and did not find these in the list. We earnestly request you to inform us as many e-mail addresses as you can in the field E-MAIL provided against the names below. The names are given in the alphabetical order Thank you in advance for sparing your valuable time. Dr S Siddaiah Co-ordinator _____________________________________________________ ============== FRANCE =============== ______________________________________________________________ 4445 Dr Andre Padoux, Director of Research(Retd) Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4018 Prof Boris Oguibenine, Professor, University of Strasbourg FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 5739 Prof BuinoDagens, Professor, Universite de Paris - III FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 3894 Prof (Mrs) Colette Caillat, Professor Em, Institut de France FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4476 Prof Francis O Zimmermann Professor & Head of Doctoral Studies in Anthropology Ecole Des Hautes Etudes En Sciences Sociales FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4659 Ms Ganga Stolarska, Ph.D. Student,Sorbonne, Paris IV FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 2802 Mr Gerard Huet FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4381 Prof.Dr Kamaleswar Bhattacharya, Directeur de Recherche Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4869 Dr Mallison Francosie, Directer d' Etudes Ecole Pratique oles Hautes Etudes FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4416 Prof Michel Hulin, Professor, Universite Paris FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 1949 Prof.Dr Nalini Balbir, Professor, University of Paris FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4401 Prof Pierre-Sylvain Filliozat, Professor of Sanskrit EPHE, Sorbonne, Paris FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 2116 Prof.Mrs. Porcher Marie-Claude, Professor (Sanskrit Literature & Language) University of Paris FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 2258 Prof San Sarin Professor at faculty of Archaeologist of Phnom Penh Mamber of Societe Asiatique FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 2118 Dr. Saveros Pou (Mrs. Sykes) Director of Research (Retd) FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 6227 Smt Vasundhara Filliozat, Epigraphist, Historian IGNCA FRANCE E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ Thank you ! ============================== Secretariat Xth World Sanskrit Conference TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032 India Tel: +91-80-3430017 +91-80-3332759 Fax: +91-80-3334541 E-mail: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indnet.wscx.html ======================================  From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Fri Apr 12 20:24:32 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 20:24:32 +0000 Subject: Request for E-mail address - GERMANY Message-ID: <161227023749.23782.14683300306997264016.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ================================================ Xth WORLD SANSKRIT CONFERENCE, BANGALORE, INDIA (3-9 January 1997) ================================================ Dear Indologists, We are in need of the e-mail address of the following scholars for quick communication. We have checked the indology group and did not find these in the list. We earnestly request you to inform us as many e-mail addresses as you can in the field E-MAIL provided against the names below. The names are given in the alphabetical order Thank you in advance for sparing your valuable time. Dr S Siddaiah Co-ordinator _____________________________________________________ ============== GERMANY =============== ______________________________________________________________ 4475 Dr Akira Yuyama, Visiting Professor Universitat Hamburg GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4485 Dr Andreas Bock-Raming, Lecturer, University of Freiburg GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4040 Prof Dr Bansidhar Bhatt, Professor (Retd) Indologisches Seminar - WWU. GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4614 Prof Dr Bernhard K?lver, Director, University of Leipzig GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 2836 Dr Birgit Mayer-Konig GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 1809 Dr Dieter Maue GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4130 Prof Dr Dister Schlingloff, Head of the Dept Universitat Munchen GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4226 Prof Friedrich Wilhelm, Professor, University of Munich GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 1195 Prof Dr Heidrun Bruckner, Professor of Indology University of Tubingen GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4473 Dr Karin Preisendanz, Wiss. Ass., University of Hamburg GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 6442 Mrs. Katharina Kupfer, Student, Universitat Bielefeld GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4678 Mrs Kirsten Goertz, Student, University of Bonn GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4433 Pd Dr Konrad Meisig, Privatdozent Institut fur Indologie, Koln GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4061 Lic Marcos Albino, Graduate Student Institut fur Indogermanistik GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4059 Ms. Maria Schreiber, Institut fur Kultur und gesdridte GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4676 Ms Marion Frenger GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4680 Mrs Miriam Sobich, Student GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 1013 Dr Parameswara Aithal, Professor South Asia Institute of Heidelberg University GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4391 Prof.Dr Rahul Peter Das Professor for "Nevindische Philologie" Martin-Luther University GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4215 Dr Sequeira Aloysius Ronald Research Scholar Institute of Indology/Cologne GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 2789 Prof.Dr Stefan Zimmer Director GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4041 Prof Dr von Hinuber Oskar Professor of Indology Orientalisches Seminar (Indology) GERMANY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ Thank you ! ============================== Secretariat Xth World Sanskrit Conference TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032 India Tel: +91-80-3430017 +91-80-3332759 Fax: +91-80-3334541 E-mail: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indnet.wscx.html ======================================  From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Fri Apr 12 20:24:53 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 20:24:53 +0000 Subject: Request for E-mail address - JAPAN Message-ID: <161227023752.23782.3380396705841126330.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ================================================ Xth WORLD SANSKRIT CONFERENCE, BANGALORE, INDIA (3-9 January 1997) ================================================ Dear Indologists, We are in need of the e-mail address of the following scholars for quick communication. We have checked the indology group and did not find these in the list. We earnestly request you to inform us as many e-mail addresses as you can in the field E-MAIL provided against the names below. The names are given in the alphabetical order Thank you in advance for sparing your valuable time. Dr S Siddaiah Co-ordinator _____________________________________________________ ============== JAPAN =============== ______________________________________________________________ 4969 Dr Chizuko Yoshimizu Research Assistant Naritasan Institute for Buddhist Studies JAPAN E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4438 Prof Dr Hideaki Nakatani Professor Kobegakuin University JAPAN E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 1523 Prof Hirofumi Isoda Professor Tohoku University JAPAN E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4006 Dr Kiyoshi Yoroi Professor Emeritus Kanazawa University JAPAN E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 3995 Prof Dr Masaaki Hattori Professor Emeritus Kyoto University JAPAN E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4660 Prof Minoru Hara Emeritus Professor (Rtd) University of Tokyo JAPAN E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 3984 Dr Shingo Einoo Professor University of Tokyo JAPAN E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4001 Rev Taijun Inokuchi Professor Emeritus Ryukoku University JAPAN E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4474 Prof Toru Yagi Professor Osaka Gakuin University JAPAN E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4611 Prof Werner Franz Knobl Foreign Lecturer Kyoto University JAPAN E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 6632 Sri Yusho Wakahara Lecturer Ryukoku University JAPAN E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ Thank you ! ============================== Secretariat Xth World Sanskrit Conference TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032 India Tel: +91-80-3430017 +91-80-3332759 Fax: +91-80-3334541 E-mail: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indnet.wscx.html ======================================  From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Fri Apr 12 20:25:06 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 20:25:06 +0000 Subject: Request for E-mail address - UK Message-ID: <161227023766.23782.11261517199600550439.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ================================================ Xth WORLD SANSKRIT CONFERENCE, BANGALORE, INDIA (3-9 January 1997) ================================================ Dear Indologists, We are in need of the e-mail address of the following scholars for quick communication. We have checked the indology group and did not find these in the list. We earnestly request you to inform us as many e-mail addresses as you can in the field E-MAIL provided against the names below. The names are given in the alphabetical order Thank you in advance for sparing your valuable time. Dr S Siddaiah Co-ordinator _____________________________________________________ ========= UK ========= ______________________________________________________________ 4520 Dr Freda Matchett Honorary Research Fellow Lancaster University UK E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 5570 Ms Gita Patel Student London University UK E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 6454 Dr. Ian Richard Whicher Deputy - Director Cambridge University UK E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4157 Mrs Isabelle Glover Tutor Sanskrit Mary Ward Centre UK E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4546 Dr Lynn Karen Thomas Lecturer in Religious Studies Roehampton Institute of Higher Education UK E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4407 Prof Richard Francis Gombrich Boden Professor of Sanskrit University of Oxford UK E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4543 Dr Sanjukta Gupta Member, Oriental Fac. Oxford Oxford University UK E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ Thank you ! ============================== Secretariat Xth World Sanskrit Conference TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032 India Tel: +91-80-3430017 +91-80-3332759 Fax: +91-80-3334541 E-mail: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indnet.wscx.html ======================================  From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Fri Apr 12 20:25:22 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 20:25:22 +0000 Subject: Request for E-mail address - BELGIUM, NETHERLANDS Message-ID: <161227023760.23782.2106896708170287540.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ================================================ Xth WORLD SANSKRIT CONFERENCE, BANGALORE, INDIA (3-9 January 1997) ================================================ Dear Indologists, We are in need of the e-mail address of the following scholars for quick communication. We have checked the indology group and did not find these in the list. We earnestly request you to inform us as many e-mail addresses as you can in the field E-MAIL provided against the names below. The names are given in the alphabetical order Thank you in advance for sparing your valuable time. Dr S Siddaiah Co-ordinator _____________________________________________________ ========================== BELGIUM, NETHERLANDS ========================== ______________________________________________________________ 2669 Dr Verpoorten Jean-Marie, Lecturer (in Buddhism), University of Liege BELGIUM E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4096 Dr Emmie te Nijenhuis Director Saraswati Bhavan NETHERLANDS E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4384 Prof Dr Hendrik Wilhelm Bodewitz Professor of Sanskrit Kern Institute NETHERLANDS E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4327 Dr Indu Srivastava Guest Lecturer Ripa school of Indian Arts NETHERLANDS E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4469 Dr Victor Albert van Bijlert Lecturer Institut Kern NETHERLANDS E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ Thank you ! ============================== Secretariat Xth World Sanskrit Conference TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032 India Tel: +91-80-3430017 +91-80-3332759 Fax: +91-80-3334541 E-mail: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indnet.wscx.html ======================================  From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Fri Apr 12 20:25:33 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 20:25:33 +0000 Subject: Request for E-mail address - DENMARK, FINLAND, SWEDEN Message-ID: <161227023758.23782.10909342847474341010.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ================================================ Xth WORLD SANSKRIT CONFERENCE, BANGALORE, INDIA (3-9 January 1997) ================================================ Dear Indologists, We are in need of the e-mail address of the following scholars for quick communication. We have checked the indology group and did not find these in the list. We earnestly request you to inform us as many e-mail addresses as you can in the field E-MAIL provided against the names below. The names are given in the alphabetical order Thank you in advance for sparing your valuable time. Dr S Siddaiah Co-ordinator _____________________________________________________ ========================= DENMARK, FINLAND, SWEDEN ========================= _______________________________________________________________ 1070 Dr Anindita N Balslev, Centre for Cultural Research DENMARK E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4617 Dr Christian Lindtner, Institute for Indian Philology DENMARK E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 1613 Dr Klaus Karttunen, Sr. Research fellow, University of Helsinki FINLAND E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4273 Prof Siegfried Lienhard Professor Emeritus University of Stockholm SWEDEN E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ Thank you ! ============================== Secretariat Xth World Sanskrit Conference TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032 India Tel: +91-80-3430017 +91-80-3332759 Fax: +91-80-3334541 E-mail: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indnet.wscx.html ======================================  From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Fri Apr 12 20:25:56 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 20:25:56 +0000 Subject: Request for E-mail address - RUSSIA, POLAND, CZECH, HUNGARY Message-ID: <161227023754.23782.10325232266121361223.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ================================================ Xth WORLD SANSKRIT CONFERENCE, BANGALORE, INDIA (3-9 January 1997) ================================================ Dear Indologists, We are in need of the e-mail address of the following scholars for quick communication. We have checked the indology group and did not find these in the list. We earnestly request you to inform us as many e-mail addresses as you can in the field E-MAIL provided against the names below. The names are given in the alphabetical order Thank you in advance for sparing your valuable time. Dr S Siddaiah Co-ordinator _____________________________________________________ ============================= RUSSIA, POLAND, CZECH, HUNGARY ============================= _______________________________________________________ 2801 Mr Jan Dvorak CZECH REPUBLIC E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4635 Prof Wojtilla Gyula Head of the Dept University of Szeged HUNGARY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4573 Sri Cezary Galewicz Assistant Jagiellonian University POLAND E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 2527 Dr Lidia Sudyka Lecturer Jagiellonian University POLAND E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 1684 Mrs. Marta Eliza Kudelska Jagiellonian University POLAND E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 6506 Marzenna B Jakubczak Post-Graduate Student Jagiellonian University, Institute of Philosophy POLAND E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 1168 Prof Bongard-Levin Gugous Professor, Member of the Russian Academy Centre for Indological Studies RUSSIA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 5803 Dr Elena V Tyulina Research Scholar Institute of Oriental Studies RUSSIA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 2338 Dr Igor D. Serebryakov Senior Scholar Consultant Institute of Oriental Studies, RUSSIA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 5747 Smt Natalia Lidova Senior Reseach Scholar Institute of World Literalure Russian Academy RUSSIA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 1301 Prof Tatiana Y. Elizarenkova Research Fellow Instituteof Oriental studies of the Russian RUSSIA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 6405 Prof. Zakharyin Boris Professor & H O D Moscow state University RUSSIA E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ Thank you ! ============================== Secretariat Xth World Sanskrit Conference TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032 India Tel: +91-80-3430017 +91-80-3332759 Fax: +91-80-3334541 E-mail: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indnet.wscx.html ======================================  From swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Fri Apr 12 20:26:10 1996 From: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 20:26:10 +0000 Subject: Request for E-mail address - SWITZERLAND & ITALY Message-ID: <161227023756.23782.8206472333646908401.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ================================================ Xth WORLD SANSKRIT CONFERENCE, BANGALORE, INDIA (3-9 January 1997) ================================================ Dear Indologists, We are in need of the e-mail address of the following scholars for quick communication. We have checked the indology group and did not find these in the list. We earnestly request you to inform us as many e-mail addresses as you can in the field E-MAIL provided against the names below. The names are given in the alphabetical order Thank you in advance for sparing your valuable time. Dr S Siddaiah Co-ordinator _____________________________________________________ =================== SWITZERLAND & ITALY =================== _____________________________________________________ 4225 Prof Dr Anna Radicchi Professor Cagliari University ITALY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 2587 Dr Augustine Thottakara Director / Professor Centre for Indian & Inter-religious Studies ITALY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 1153 Prof Dr Giuliamo Boccali Professor of Indology University of Venice, Italy ITALY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 2313 Dr Silvia Schwarz Linder Lecturer Leopold - Franzens University ITALY E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 6642 Sri Diaconescu Bogdan Ph.D. Candidate in Sanskrit University of Lausanne SWITZERLAND E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ 4387 Prof Maya Burger Professor University of Lausanne SWITZERLAND E-MAIL : ______________________________________________________________ Thank you ! ============================== Secretariat Xth World Sanskrit Conference TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032 India Tel: +91-80-3430017 +91-80-3332759 Fax: +91-80-3334541 E-mail: swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indnet.wscx.html ======================================  From kellner at ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp Fri Apr 12 15:23:06 1996 From: kellner at ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (Birgit Kellner) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 96 00:23:06 +0900 Subject: Initial capital Message-ID: <161227023768.23782.16260389083882656008.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 12:44 1996-04-12 BST, Mikael Aktor wrote: >It's irritating that initial capitals in mames look ambiguous when used >together with the Kyoto-Harvard convention. Like for instance: GaGgA, >JJAnezvara, etc. But it is also problematic to skip them in for instance >kRSNa, when this is a name and not only a color. Could we agree upon a >common marker put before initial capital, for instance ":" ? The above >examples would then be: :GaGgA, :JJAnezvara, and :KRSNa. The choice has to >bee a sign which is not taken as a part of the word by various search >programs, and which can not be mistaken for other signs that one may want to >use before a word, for instance quotation marks. Other suggestions? Or is >ASCII-Sanskrit already too weird for further complications? I would like to abuse this occasion to argue in favour of two-character diacritical encodings, in particular to bluntly propagate (once more) a quite wide-spread Japanese convention, allegedly invented in Tookyoo, by people who worked on main-frame computers who couldn't handle capitals (so Harvard-Kyooto was not an option). This convention, which uses "@" as a second character after the diacritic's root-letter (i.e. "a@" for "long a", some exceptions for .n etc.), is admittedly more difficult to read than Harvard, at least in some cases, but it has one big advantage: If you have data which contains English, too, and if you want to use it on your own computer with a word-processor of your choice and a diacritical font of your choice, it is much easier and inambiguous to write a macro for conversion. The same routine is not possible for both Harvard-Kyooto and Velthuis, because characters which are used in non-Sanskrit are also used in marking diacritics. By the same token, the "@"-convention is also very useful for tormented Windows-users like myself, who switch between diacritical fonts ("the eternal quest for aesthetically pleasing Sanskrit diacritics - yet another never-ending story"). Given that all these fonts have different positions for their diacritics (amongst which I would also count non-English letters such as German umlaut etc.), a fact which makes me increasingly angry, replacing one character by another with a simple macro won't do. If you have, for example, the long a on ANSI 0140 and change to a font which has it on ANSI 0167, and if you want to change the long i from your old font on ANSI 0167 to ANSI 0189, you end up with a terrible mess. So you need a "go-between"-ASCII-convention, and for papers in English/German/Swahili or whatever which contain Sanskrit/Tibetan passages, you do need a two-character encoding. Birgit Kellner Department for Indian Philosophy University of Hiroshima From tcahill at ccat.sas.upenn.edu Sat Apr 13 14:55:47 1996 From: tcahill at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Tim Cahill) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 96 10:55:47 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy theory Message-ID: <161227023786.23782.13766691274266333696.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To the List, In response to Julia Leslie's resquest for info on work related to the 'conspiracy theory' of brahminical orthodoxy I'd like to mention Brian K. Smith's very detailed work "Classifying the Universe" (Oxford 1994). He begins his conclusion: "The varna system examined in this book supplied its propogators with a contrivance for classifying -- and thereby knowing and controlling -- the universe in its entirety." (p.314) Personally I don't buy it -- seems to me they would have cut themselves a better deal! But Smith presents an interesting case (or, indictment), and only after a very thorough study. His treatment covers classifications of the Universe, Society, Gods, Space, Time, Flora, Fauna, and Revelation. Incidentally, the conclusion also includes a quote from M.N. Srinivas: "Varna systematizes the chaos of jatis and enables the sub-castes of one region to be comprehended by by people in another area by reference to a common scale." (Rel. & Soc. among the Coorgs 1952, p.25) itlu, Tim Cahill From mmdesh at umich.edu Sat Apr 13 17:32:34 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 96 13:32:34 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy theory Message-ID: <161227023788.23782.13174027765180452371.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To add to Tim's interesting comments, one should realize that Brian K. Smith believes that the Varna system is a continuity of the IE tripartite classification a la Dumezil. Whether one agrees with this thesis, and I personally have grave doubts about this, the Varna could not be a conspiracy of the Brahmins, or of any one group for that matter, if it is a continuity of the IE classification. As for B.K. Smith's own analysis, I think it is historically deficient at least in two ways. It argues for the continuity of the so-called tripartite classification, while ignoring the historically most important fact that the word Varna, before it is applied to Brahmanas, Kzatriyas, VaiSyas and Suudras, appears to have been applied to a two-fold classification, i.e. Arya-varna and Dasa-varna in the Rigveda. Secondly, it ignores the entire discussion of the possibility that a good deal of Jati categories may go back to pre-Aryan past. Having said that, I do like Smith's work to the extent that it elaborates the application of the Varna categories by the Brahmanical tradition to various groups beyond the human, and he brings out the very important features of the horizontal and vertical groupings marked through these devices. Madhav Deshpande On Sat, 13 Apr 1996, Tim Cahill wrote: > > To the List, > > In response to Julia Leslie's resquest for info on work related to the > 'conspiracy theory' of brahminical orthodoxy I'd like to mention Brian K. > Smith's very detailed work "Classifying the Universe" (Oxford 1994). He > begins his conclusion: "The varna system examined in this book supplied > its propogators with a contrivance for classifying -- and thereby knowing > and controlling -- the universe in its entirety." (p.314) Personally I > don't buy it -- seems to me they would have cut themselves a better deal! > But Smith presents an interesting case (or, indictment), and only after a > very thorough study. His treatment covers classifications of the > Universe, Society, Gods, Space, Time, Flora, Fauna, and Revelation. > > Incidentally, the conclusion also includes a quote from M.N. Srinivas: > "Varna systematizes the chaos of jatis and enables the sub-castes of one > region to be comprehended by by people in another area by reference to a > common scale." (Rel. & Soc. among the Coorgs 1952, p.25) > > itlu, Tim Cahill > > > > From rcohen at sas.upenn.edu Sat Apr 13 21:09:54 1996 From: rcohen at sas.upenn.edu (rcohen at sas.upenn.edu) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 96 17:09:54 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy theory Message-ID: <161227023791.23782.6417844019953142907.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Picking up on what Tim Cahill said concerning Smith's ideas and theories (I haven't read the book), it would be helpful to compare the Jaina classification and analysis of the "universe," as their system has similar goals with respect to "control." Similar in the sense that the Jaina analysis of the world and its contents is equally inclusive and meticulous as the Brahmanic (perhaps even more so), with the idea in mind that one successfully negotiates release from the world (rebirth) when one fully understands and "controls" one's living in it. Additionally, and noteworthy in the context of the "conspiracy theory," is the fact that varna is anathema in Jainism. -- Richard J. Cohen, Assistant Director, South Asia Regional Studies University of Pennsylvania, 820 Williams Hall, Univ. of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305, Tel: 215-898-7475; Fax: 215-573-2138 E-mail: rcohen at mail.sas.upenn.edu From zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl Sat Apr 13 19:13:12 1996 From: zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl (zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 96 18:13:12 -0100 Subject: NON INDOLOGY BUT URGENT ACTION Message-ID: <161227023793.23782.11514484611301758230.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Replies to msg 12 Apr 96: indology at liverpool.ac.uk (ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk) For whatever it's worth, I think I should send in a few words in support of Dominik Wujastyk's position. INDOLOGY is not an American newsgroup - it is an international scholarly discussion group. V. Pinto's posting concerns an American social affair. Whatever all the overseas recipients may feel / think about the matter, we cannot do anything about it anyway. In other words: the posting does not serve any useful purpose. There are American forums where these things can be discussed, on and off the Internet, e.g. all the alt.soc... and alt.culture... groups. Another consideration is that we have to pay for whatever appears here (no free local telephone calls outside North America!). In India I have to pay long distance telephone charges to contact the Internet server, on a poor telephone line that tolerates a maximum modem speed of 2400 bps (and there is no fancy automatic compression software on the servers! only slow ASCII downloads! no free E-mail mailboxes at our offices!). (So we also had to pay for that long, pirated article from Time magazine - which is superficial and concerns Americans only.) In view of these obvious truths, V. Pinto's posting is actually, paradoxically, asocial. It also sets an unpleasant precedent in that if Indian recipients start posting such calls in reaction to similar cases in India (which are _much_ more frequent, and often _much_ worse!), INDOLOGY will be clogged up in no time with nothing else - and again, to no useful purpose. Robert Zydenbos Internet: zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | RBBS Flevoland Internet Gateway | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | RBBS Flevoland, Almere-Stad, The Netherlands +31-36-5363720 ZyXEL 19k2 | | fax +31-36-5363720 +31-36-5367160 V34+ 33k6 | | Member of Team-OS/2, 7 cdrom's online +31-36-5360688 ISDNC 64k0 | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From srini at engin.umich.edu Sun Apr 14 05:58:27 1996 From: srini at engin.umich.edu (Srinivasan Pichumani) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 96 01:58:27 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy theory Message-ID: <161227023795.23782.6873342134031855407.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In response to Julia Leslie's resquest for info on work related to the 'conspiracy theory' of brahminical orthodoxy I'd like to mention Brian K. Smith's very detailed work "Classifying the Universe" (Oxford 1994). There is a fairly detailed and hard-hitting critique of this work, written by Vidyanath Rao, at the following webpage... http://zeta.cs.adfa.oz.au/Spirit/Veda/classifying-universum.html -Srini. From R.W.Perrett at massey.ac.nz Sat Apr 13 17:24:45 1996 From: R.W.Perrett at massey.ac.nz (R.W.Perrett at massey.ac.nz) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 96 05:24:45 +1200 Subject: Conspiracy theory Message-ID: <161227023784.23782.3982176314179047612.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Popper (though not brahmins) you should have a look at: Charles Pigden, "Popper revisited, or what is wrong with conspiracy theories?" *Philosophy of the Social Sciences* Vol. 25, no. 1, March 1995, pp. 3-34. From vidya at singnet.com.sg Sun Apr 14 09:54:43 1996 From: vidya at singnet.com.sg (Vidyasagar Govind) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 96 17:54:43 +0800 Subject: Conspiracy theory Message-ID: <161227023797.23782.3915124180272798297.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I tried but could not get this article on the site you quoted.By any chance do you have a copy of this article and if so could you kindly e-mail it to me.Thanks. Vidya. At 07:04 AM 4/14/96 BST, you wrote: > In response to Julia Leslie's resquest for info on work related to the > 'conspiracy theory' of brahminical orthodoxy I'd like to mention Brian K. > Smith's very detailed work "Classifying the Universe" (Oxford 1994). > >There is a fairly detailed and hard-hitting critique of >this work, written by Vidyanath Rao, at the following >webpage... > > http://zeta.cs.adfa.oz.au/Spirit/Veda/classifying-universum.html > >-Srini. > > Wish you a happy memorable day! vidya at singnet.com.sg >?From indology-l at pwyz.rhein.de 15 1996 Apr +0100 00:02:00 Date: 15 Apr 1996 00:02:00 +0100 From: indology-l at pwyz.rhein.de (Peter Wyzlic) Subject: Saint Jerome and Buddha (was: NON INDOLOGY BUT URGENT ACTION etc.) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: Peter at pwyz.rhein.de Hello, <13. Apr 1996> Reference: <960412105003.3239B-100000 at northshore.shore.net> You wrote on "Re: NON INDOLOGY BUT URGENT ACTION etc.": >*First Greek and Latin Documents on Sahagamana and Some Connected Problems* >[...] >Part 2 (pp. 27) I present and analyze the first unknown (and mostly never >traslated before) Greek and Latin documents (by historians, poets, and >rhetors), and [...] > >BTW, Hieronymous asserts that Buddha was the founder of the sect of the >*gimnosofistas* (known as *sophistes* or *sopeites* by Alexander's >historians), born from a side of a virgin (like Mary is virgin and Eve was >created from Adam's side)! This is absolutely new in the all Greek and >Latin literature (see part 2, fn. 177). Is it really "absolutely" new? I am not sure what you exactly mean. Examples of parthenogenesis are to found elsewhere (Saint Jerome himself mentioned some non-Christian examples in the passage in question, adversus Jovinianum I,42). Or do you intend to say that Jerome was the first in the Western world who took account of the Buddha and his birth? How about the _Acta Archelai_ of Hegemonius? This is an early anti-Manichean text (allegedly before 350) which was known to Saint Jerome (he cited it in _Liber de viris illustribus_). There a certain Terebinthus claims that his name is "Budda" and that he was born by a virgin (...talem de se famam pervulgavit ipse Terebinthus, dicens omni se sapientia Aegyptiorum repletum et vocari iam non Terebinthum, sed Buddam nomine sibique hoc nomen inpositum; ex quadam autem virgine natum se esse simulavit et ab angelo in montibus enutritum, Acta Archelai 63.2 ed. C.H. Beeson). I think this passage of Saint Jerome is well known since long and often cited. Among the indologists H.H. Wilson cites it in his essay on Buddhism (sorry, I have the exact reference not at hand) and, of course, E. Windisch in his "Buddha's Geburt" (Leipzig 1908, p. 220 seq.). \bye Peter Wyzlic From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov Mon Apr 15 14:02:10 1996 From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 09:02:10 -0500 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023807.23782.5168174517388270748.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Q: New Year In Tamil Nadu & Kerala, New Year day was celebrated on April 13, 1996. This is following Solar calendar (When Sun enters Mesha Rasi.) In Andhra & Karnataka, it was 20 days earlier (Yugadhi following lunar calendar) Does Bengal follow Solar calendar too? Sinhala New Year was on Apri 13, 1996 (solar). Thais and Khmer also follow solar calendar, I heard. Is it true? Any other people following Indic calendars?? N. Ganesan From vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu Mon Apr 15 13:24:46 1996 From: vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 09:24:46 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy theory Message-ID: <161227023805.23782.9892958098811070837.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > In response to Julia Leslie's resquest for info on work related to the > 'conspiracy theory' of brahminical orthodoxy I'd like to mention Brian K. > Smith's very detailed work "Classifying the Universe" (Oxford 1994). > > There is a fairly detailed and hard-hitting critique of > this work, written by Vidyanath Rao, at the following > webpage... > > http://zeta.cs.adfa.oz.au/Spirit/Veda/classifying-universum.html This is news to me :-) Please note that this ``review'' must be considered as not completely finished (although I won't finish in the near future, not till I finish reading kaTha, maitraayani and jaimaniiya, god only knows when). My main complaint about Smith's work (and several others), is that there is apparently no attempt to collect all relevant material and then see how many are confirming instances, how many are irrelevant and how many are `rejecting' instances. This is especially apropos as the name of Popper has been mentioned in this thread. -Nath From C.Wooff at liverpool.ac.uk Mon Apr 15 09:02:08 1996 From: C.Wooff at liverpool.ac.uk (Chris Wooff) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 10:02:08 +0100 Subject: You must be a "member" to post Message-ID: <161227023799.23782.13099906734739213789.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There have recently been a lot of rejected postings. The reason for this was explained in a mail I sent out on March 20th. Unfortunately, many subscribers have taken no heed and are now experiencing the problems I warned of. Here's a repost of that message: -------------------------------------- Subject: Changes to the way we run the list To: indology Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 14:14:15 +0000 (GMT) With immediate effect only those people who are members of the Indology list will be able to make postings. We hope this step will go some way towards alleviating recent problems. IMPORTANT NOTE Please note that the membership list contains the email address you had *at the time you joined the list*. Even if you routinely receive Indology postings this does not necessarily make you a "member". Many sites periodically change what appears in the From: field of your email whilst continuing to accept email to the older address. If you are one of these users then you will continue to receive mail but will not be able to post. I will see all failed attempts to post and will deal with them as they occur. This will be achieved by correcting subscriptions. If it becomes problematic to run the list in this way we may have to revert. However, it is certainly worth trying. In a seperate mail item I'll send you a list of subscribers so that you can if you wish alert me to any "old" addresses. Chris Wooff (list owner) -------------------------------------- From francois at sas.ac.uk Mon Apr 15 10:12:39 1996 From: francois at sas.ac.uk (Francois Quiviger) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 11:12:39 +0100 Subject: thanks Message-ID: <161227023801.23782.10945553450871406871.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> My thanks to Laurie Patton and Amita Sarin for their quick and useful answers to my query on debates between Hindu, Muslims and Christians. Francois Quiviger Warburg Institute University of London From deo at ix.netcom.com Mon Apr 15 19:06:41 1996 From: deo at ix.netcom.com (deo at ix.netcom.com) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 12:06:41 -0700 Subject: Satyarth Prakash Message-ID: <161227023812.23782.12775967080313551454.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi Can someone please direct me to a site where there is a copy of the Satyarth Prakash by Swami Dayanand: I will be grateful. Dayan Deonarine deo at ix.netcom.com From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Mon Apr 15 12:38:51 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 12:38:51 +0000 Subject: Obituary notices for the next world Sanskrit Conference Message-ID: <161227023803.23782.5949599046835625605.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji, chair of the organizing committee of the next World Sanskrit Conference, has been asked by the IASS to collect notices of indologists who have passed away since the last conference in Melbourne. If you know of such persons, could you kindly inform Dr Swamiji, at swamiji at giasbg01.vsnl.net.in Dr Swamiji follows INDOLOGY, and already knows the sad news about Alan Entwhistle. With thanks, Dominik Wujastyk From soumitra at ix.netcom.com Mon Apr 15 21:23:52 1996 From: soumitra at ix.netcom.com (soumitra at ix.netcom.com) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 14:23:52 -0700 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023817.23782.980113783380703073.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> You wrote: > > >Q: New Year > >In Tamil Nadu & Kerala, New Year day was celebrated on April 13, 1996. >This is following Solar calendar (When Sun enters Mesha Rasi.) >In Andhra & Karnataka, it was 20 days earlier (Yugadhi following >lunar calendar) > >Does Bengal follow Solar calendar too? Sinhala New Year was on >Apri 13, 1996 (solar). Thais and Khmer also follow solar calendar, >I heard. Is it true? Any other people following Indic calendars?? > >N. Ganesan > > We in Bengal have the Solar Calendar, Bangladesh is trying to implemetn a lunar calendar. We had our new Year on 14th April From kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu Mon Apr 15 19:43:08 1996 From: kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu (Kamal Adhikary) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 14:43:08 -0500 Subject: Paper Abstract Message-ID: <161227023814.23782.9748268909249862669.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues: The following is an abstract of "THE PLACE OF STORIES:INDIA, RESEARCH. WRITING " by Kirin Narayan, University of Wisconsin, Madison: India is often viewed as a place saturated with traditional narratives: myths, legends, folktales. Such stories are regularly cited in ethnographies to exemplify deep rooted values and beliefs. However, ethnographers do not appear to ask tellers or their audiences how they would interpret their stories. I argue that abstracting folk narratives from performance settings and from local exegeses serves to freeze these as portraits of traditional India. Drawing on my research on women's tales in Kangra, N.W. India, I argue that in research we should closely attend to how the people we desscribe themselves view stories, and in writing we should keep their interpretive voices distinct from our own. Resituating stories in contested social and interpretive contexts alerts us to the forces of change in contemporary India. ****** You can also view the above abstract at: http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/subject/s.asia.sem.962.html I hope to post her full paper soon. Thanks. kamal _______________ Kamal R. Adhikary, Ph.D. Internet Coordinator, Asian Studies UT, Austin, Texas 78712 Tel:512-475-6034 Email:kamal at asnic.utexas.edu From rcohen at sas.upenn.edu Mon Apr 15 18:59:47 1996 From: rcohen at sas.upenn.edu (rcohen at sas.upenn.edu) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 14:59:47 -0400 Subject: South Asian Art on Web Message-ID: <161227023810.23782.8542990226572518365.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> David Nelson, South Asian bibliographer at the University of Pennsylvania, is running a pilot project, the goal of which is to place scanned images from Penn's collection of slides belonging to its Varanasi Collection, American Institute of Indian Studies. The initial images are of paintings from the Company School, Deccani and Eastern Indian schools. The URL is: . -- Richard J. Cohen, Assistant Director, South Asia Regional Studies University of Pennsylvania, 820 Williams Hall, Univ. of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305, Tel: 215-898-7475; Fax: 215-573-2138 E-mail: rcohen at mail.sas.upenn.edu From garzilli at shore.net Mon Apr 15 20:29:56 1996 From: garzilli at shore.net (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 16:29:56 -0400 Subject: Saint Jerome and Buddha (was: NON INDOLOGY BUT URGENT ACTION etc.)! Message-ID: <161227023816.23782.11631533982938250077.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Sun, 14 Apr 1996, Peter Wyzlic wrote: > > I think this passage of Saint Jerome is well known since long and often > cited. Among the indologists H.H. Wilson cites it in his essay on Buddhism > (sorry, I have the exact reference not at hand) and, of course, E. > Windisch in his "Buddha's Geburt" (Leipzig 1908, p. 220 seq.). > > \bye > Peter Wyzlic > > The new thing is the whole info: Buddha as the founder of the sect, born from a vergin, etc. (He re-elaborates themes well known by Cicero -- one of the writers on sahagamana, on the wise Indians, etc., and by Origen) Enrica Garzilli From n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de Mon Apr 15 17:01:58 1996 From: n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de (n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 19:01:58 +0200 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023809.23782.14659242937473836475.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > >Q: New Year > >In Tamil Nadu & Kerala, New Year day was celebrated on April 13, 1996. >This is following Solar calendar (When Sun enters Mesha Rasi.) >In Andhra & Karnataka, it was 20 days earlier (Yugadhi following >lunar calendar) > Perhaps this doesn't matter much, but the assumption above that there is such thing as a correlation between a state (such as 'Karnataka' and 'Andhra') and following the Sun or Moon Calenadar is questionable. There are fairly large number of people in Karnataka who have their Yugadi or 'Vishu' following the Solar calendar. Perhaps the assumed correaltion by Ganesan is not meant anything more serious than some government holidays or some such thing. But on such basis, sometimes, a correlation betweeen the habits and customs on the one hand, and some particular territoriality principle (underlying the present day, or even the older, political units) on the other, are made. That is often a source of serious theoretical errors. Narahari Rao ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. B. Narahari Rao, F.R. 5.1. Philosophie, Unversitaet des Saarlandes, Postfach 151150, D-66041 Saarbruecken, Germany. (Tel: +49 681 302 2849) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- From AmitaSarin at aol.com Mon Apr 15 23:15:35 1996 From: AmitaSarin at aol.com (AmitaSarin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 19:15:35 -0400 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023819.23782.12256739895446835068.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I'm curious to know why April 13th is the solar New Year for so many Indian communities. In Punjab also, Baisakhi celebrates the New Year on the same date. The Persian New Year Navroze, however, although also solar, is on the 21st of March. Other Indian solar festivals, Pongal in Tamil Nadu, Lohri in Punjab and Makara Sankranti in many other regions, are celebrated around the 13th/14th of January. Most other Indian festivals - Diwali, Holi, Dussera etc. are calculated on a lunar system and do not have a constant date on the western calendar. Can anyone explain the origins of these two systems? Thanks, Amita Sarin From pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu Tue Apr 16 12:52:07 1996 From: pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Peter Gaeffke) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 08:52:07 -0400 Subject: Satyarth Prakash Message-ID: <161227023834.23782.3631111969524134729.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Satyarthaprakasha is kept in the library of the University of Pennsylvania and in many other libraries. Interlibrary loan is an easy way to get the book if it is not in your library. Peter Gaeffke From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk Tue Apr 16 08:35:21 1996 From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 09:35:21 +0100 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023826.23782.8253520580538915588.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, >April 13th, or thereabout, is the time when the sun enters Aries >(meshasaMkrAnti), the first sign of the zodiac, according to the nirayana or >sidereal system followed in most of India. This system takes into >consideration the precession of the equinox, i.e., the fact that the >position of the earth in relation to the fixed stars changes slightly with >every year, so that if one's birth sign according to Western astrology is >Aries, it is likely that the sun was in fact in Pisces at the time of his >birth. At present, the precession (ayanAMs'a) is around 23-24 degrees; there >are some differences of opinion as to the exact value. As far as I know, the origin of the system is near or at the star zeta Piscis. This star lies quite near the ecliptic (or zodiacal line). If the ecliptic is then divided into 12 equal lengths, and this star is asumed to be the origin, then the ayanaamsha can be calculated reasonably accurately. Makar Sa.nkraanti marks, as you know, the start of the apparent movement of the Sun towards the North (uttaraayaNa). bye, Girish Beeharry From alfredo at sunny.mpimf-heidelberg.mpg.de Tue Apr 16 07:56:54 1996 From: alfredo at sunny.mpimf-heidelberg.mpg.de (alfredo at sunny.mpimf-heidelberg.mpg.de) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 09:56:54 +0200 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023821.23782.14048512343226122660.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Apri 13, 1996 (solar). Thais and Khmer also follow solar calendar, The last 13 April was Thai new year. Af far as I know, the exact day also varies every year according to the moon. A.V. ______________________________________________________________ Alfredo Villarroel Max-Planck-Institut fuer medizinische Forschung Jahnstr. 29 D-69120 Heidelberg e-mail alfredo at sunny.mpimf-Heidelberg.mpg.de FaX: (06221) 486-459 ______________________________________________________________ From mgansten at sbbs.se Tue Apr 16 08:02:34 1996 From: mgansten at sbbs.se (mgansten at sbbs.se) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 10:02:34 +0200 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023823.23782.15342254688037765300.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Amita Sarin wrote: >I'm curious to know why April 13th is the solar New Year for so many Indian >communities. In Punjab also, Baisakhi celebrates the New Year on the same >date. The Persian New Year Navroze, however, although also solar, is on the >21st of March. [...] April 13th, or thereabout, is the time when the sun enters Aries (meshasaMkrAnti), the first sign of the zodiac, according to the nirayana or sidereal system followed in most of India. This system takes into consideration the precession of the equinox, i.e., the fact that the position of the earth in relation to the fixed stars changes slightly with every year, so that if one's birth sign according to Western astrology is Aries, it is likely that the sun was in fact in Pisces at the time of his birth. At present, the precession (ayanAMs'a) is around 23-24 degrees; there are some differences of opinion as to the exact value. March 21st, or thereabout, is the date of the vernal equinox, which remains the same from year to year. Festivals which are based on the sun's entering a particular zodiac sign (saMkrAnti) will change, but very slowly, whereas those that are based on the soli-lunar calendar, e.g. on the phases of the moon (tithi), may vary by several weeks from one year to another, as the moon will complete something like 13.38 cycles (i.e., not a whole number) in one solar year. Martin Gansten mgansten at sbbs.se From mmdesh at umich.edu Tue Apr 16 14:35:26 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 10:35:26 -0400 Subject: V. Rajam's current address? Message-ID: <161227023838.23782.9771719056097051727.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> If anyone knows V. Rajam's current mailing or emailing address, I would be grateful to have it. I am trying to reach her, but do not have her most current address. Thanks for assistance. Madhav Deshpande From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov Tue Apr 16 16:16:37 1996 From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 11:16:37 -0500 Subject: Dr. V. S. Rajam Message-ID: <161227023840.23782.16130449962056985962.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dr. V. S. Rajam's e-mail: rajam at netscape.com She sometimes into this account too. gh3 at garnet.berkeley.edu From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Tue Apr 16 12:05:45 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 12:05:45 +0000 Subject: South Asian Art on the Web Message-ID: <161227023828.23782.15583235628299636270.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Richard J. Cohen said: > > David Nelson, South Asian bibliographer at the University of > Pennsylvania, is running a pilot project, the goal of which is to place > scanned images from Penn's collection of slides belonging to its > Varanasi Collection, American Institute of Indian Studies. The initial > images are of paintings from the Company School, Deccani and Eastern > Indian schools. The URL is: > . I have made a link to this site from INDOLOGY's web page (under "Digital Art"). Many thanks for a fine initiative. Dominik Wujastyk From c_austi at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Apr 16 16:47:42 1996 From: c_austi at alcor.concordia.ca (CHRISTOPHER AUSTIN) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 12:47:42 -0400 Subject: Request for E-mail address - CANADA & USA Message-ID: <161227023842.23782.11522769605133454950.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Fri, 12 Apr 1996, Dr Shivamurthy Swamiji wrote: > We are in need of the e-mail address of the following scholars for quick communication. We have checked the indology group and did not find these in the list. > ______________________________________________________________ > Prof T. S. Rukmani, Professor, Concordia University, > CANADA I am a subscriber to the Indology list and a student of Prof. Rukmani at Concordia University; unfortunately she does not have an E-Mail address. The Concordia Religion Department phone number is (514) 848-2065. Unfortunately my computer account at the university will be terminated shortly and I will be unsubscribing from the list sson. ****************************** * Chris Austin * * c_austi at alcor.concordia.ca * * Concordia University * * Department of Religion * * Montreal, Canada * ****************************** From C.Wooff at liverpool.ac.uk Tue Apr 16 12:08:07 1996 From: C.Wooff at liverpool.ac.uk (Chris Wooff) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 13:08:07 +0100 Subject: Administrivia Message-ID: <161227023831.23782.971934863970801466.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This is a repost of something I've sent to Indology several times before. Unfortunately recent events indicate that it is again relevant! ---------------------- There has been a spate of people trying to signoff Indology and making a mess of it. The list software has trapped most of these but one or two have gone to all subscribers. It is therefore opportune to reiterate the procedures for signing off Indology: 1) Requests to leave or join should be sent to: listproc at liverpool.ac.uk 2) Point 1 therefore implies that it is inappropriate to send such requests to the Indology list. None of the people reading the list can sign you off the list. (I am not a member of the list so don't even see such requests unless Dominik passes them on). Some network users pay real money for each message they receive. They quite rightly feel aggrieved to have to pay for messages which shouldn't have been addressed to them. 3) Occassionally people's email addresses undergo subtle changes and the address they attempt to signoff from is not identical to the one they used to join Indology. If a signoff fails then *don't* panic. I see all failed signoffs and will (if at all possible) compare your old and new address so I can remove you "manually". 4) If you find a signoff fails and I don't remove you within a reasonable amount of time then contact me as: indology-request at liverpool.ac.uk and I will remove you. I hope I can rely on your cooperation in this matter. Chris Wooff (Owner Indology List) From mgansten at sbbs.se Tue Apr 16 12:44:32 1996 From: mgansten at sbbs.se (mgansten at sbbs.se) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 14:44:32 +0200 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023836.23782.15740651956143059658.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Girish Beeharry wrote: >As far as I know, the origin of the system is near or at the star zeta Piscis. That is part of the controversy... :-) As this is not a forum for astrological discussions, however, I will not get into the details. Martin Gansten mgansten at sbbs.se From jh at cubsps.bio.columbia.edu Tue Apr 16 18:50:26 1996 From: jh at cubsps.bio.columbia.edu (Jim Hartzell) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 14:50:26 -0400 Subject: Parimal publications Message-ID: <161227023847.23782.14741324188331069583.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone have a fax number, phone number, or email address for Parimal Publications, 22/17 Shakti Nagar, Delhi 110007 ? Thanks, Jim Hartzell jh84 at columbia.edu From athr at loc.gov Tue Apr 16 19:32:10 1996 From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 15:32:10 -0400 Subject: Parimal publications Message-ID: <161227023849.23782.3336868660835848848.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> It does not appear in the Delhi telephone directory, white or yellow pages. Allen Thrasher On Tue, 16 Apr 1996, Jim Hartzell wrote: > Does anyone have a fax number, phone number, or email address for > Parimal Publications, 22/17 Shakti Nagar, Delhi 110007 ? > Thanks, > Jim Hartzell > jh84 at columbia.edu > > From lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu Wed Apr 17 00:00:19 1996 From: lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu (Lance Nelson) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 17:00:19 -0700 Subject: Hindi/Sanskrit Lecturer Position (fwd) Message-ID: <161227023854.23782.3333589911895589121.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> [Forward from RISA-L] LECTURER POSITION IN HINDI/SANSKRIT Indiana University, Bloomington, the Department of Religious Studies and the India Studies Program seek a Lecturer in Hindi/Sanskrit for a full-time position beginning in the fall semester 1996. Ability to teach modern standard Hindi and classical Sanskrit. Three-year Lecturer position with possibility of renewal. Some experience in teaching elementary language is preferable. Salary to be determined based on experience as a language instructor and degree status. Ph.D. preferred; ABDs may be considered. Send resume and three letters of recommendation to Professor Gerald J. Larson, Director, India Studies Program, 230 Sycamore Hall, Indiana University, Bloomington, IN 47405. Application and all supporting materials must be received by May 31, 1996. Any questions about the position may be directed to Larson's e-mail address: (glarson at indiana.edu). From AmitaSarin at aol.com Tue Apr 16 21:44:51 1996 From: AmitaSarin at aol.com (AmitaSarin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 17:44:51 -0400 Subject: Q: New Year: Thanks Message-ID: <161227023852.23782.18117478034775086451.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks to Das Menon, Martin Gansten and Girish Beeharry for elucidating the New Year problem. I feel enlightened. Any reading references on this subject would be most welcome. Thanks again, Amita Sarin From reimann at uclink.berkeley.edu Wed Apr 17 01:05:51 1996 From: reimann at uclink.berkeley.edu (Luis Arnold Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 18:05:51 -0700 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023858.23782.2499133861779342758.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Tue, 16 Apr 1996, Girish Beeharry wrote: > Hi, > > >April 13th, or thereabout, is the time when the sun enters Aries > >(meshasaMkrAnti), the first sign of the zodiac, according to the nirayana or > >sidereal system followed in most of India. This system takes into > >consideration the precession of the equinox, i.e., the fact that the > >position of the earth in relation to the fixed stars changes slightly with > >every year, so that if one's birth sign according to Western astrology is > >Aries, it is likely that the sun was in fact in Pisces at the time of his > >birth. At present, the precession (ayanAMs'a) is around 23-24 degrees; there > >are some differences of opinion as to the exact value. > > As far as I know, the origin of the system is near or at the star zeta Piscis. > This star lies quite near the ecliptic (or zodiacal line). If the ecliptic is > then divided into 12 equal lengths, and this star is asumed to be the origin, > then the ayanaamsha can be calculated reasonably accurately. > > Makar Sa.nkraanti marks, as you know, the start of the apparent movement of the > Sun towards the North (uttaraayaNa). > > bye, > > Girish Beeharry The last statement is incorrect, because the makara samkranti is the Sun's entry into the sidereal constellation of Capricorn, whereas the uttarAyaNa always starts with the entry of the Sun into the tropical sign of Capricorn, that is, at the time of the Winter solstice. These two no longer coincide, as has been explained, because of precession. Sincerely, Luis Gonzalez-Reimann Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies University of California, Berkeley > > > From kbmartin at umich.edu Wed Apr 17 00:24:29 1996 From: kbmartin at umich.edu (Katherine B Martineau) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 20:24:29 -0400 Subject: oriya instruction Message-ID: <161227023856.23782.2011494561739284484.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have searched the South Asia gopher, as well as other places, and found no mention of any university instruction of Oriya. Does anyone know of any university programs that provide formal instruction in this, either in the US or in Orissa? If not, can anyone suggest a book that would facilitate an introductory study? Thank you in advance, Katherine Martineau Univ. of Michigan kbmartin at umich.edu From soumitra at ix.netcom.com Wed Apr 17 05:34:12 1996 From: soumitra at ix.netcom.com (soumitra at ix.netcom.com) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 22:34:12 -0700 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023860.23782.8378893469843276906.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> You wrote: > >>Apri 13, 1996 (solar). Thais and Khmer also follow solar calendar, >The last 13 April was Thai new year. Af far as I know, the exact day also >varies every year according to the moon. > >A.V. > >______________________________________________________________ >Alfredo Villarroel >Max-Planck-Institut fuer medizinische Forschung >Jahnstr. 29 >D-69120 Heidelberg >e-mail alfredo at sunny.mpimf-Heidelberg.mpg.de >FaX: (06221) 486-459 >______________________________________________________________ > > > > We bengalis have a beautiful method. We always had the debate of the solar and the lunar calendar.Akbar (though he was very unpopular and could not get a strong foothold) started bengali calendar in concordance with the Muslim Hiri calendar, but he made some sort of a compromise with all the hindu pundits(in favour of Solar) and Muslim ulemas(in favour of lunar ) and invented this BEngali calendar which has both the elements , very interestingly it goes along with the English calendar, we have bothe solar and lunar phases in our calendar. From kellner at ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp Tue Apr 16 17:36:13 1996 From: kellner at ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (Birgit Kellner) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 02:36:13 +0900 Subject: Query: materials for refutation of 'sabdanityatva Message-ID: <161227023845.23782.13610074232055910871.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am looking for articles (or even books) on the Naiyaayikas' refutation of the Miimaa.msaa's doctrine of the eternality of sound ('sabdanityatva), especially insofar as it is connected with ideas of anityatva as praagabhaava/pradhva.msaabhaava. I am not so much interested in the general doctrinal background, viz. discussions on scriptural authority, but in rather specific epistemological questions pertaining to the mechanisms of auditory cognition, and how individual author's assumptions on the nature of auditory cognition are used to substantiate their explanation of how to cognize _'sabdaabhaava_. In that context, I am particularly interested in post-Kumaarileian debates. I am aware of the relevant texts and textual passages, but I was just wondering whether anybody has ever looked into this. .. Help and hints would be greatly appreciated, Birgit Kellner Department for Indian Philosophy University of Hiroshima From als1 at midway.uchicago.edu Wed Apr 17 14:27:30 1996 From: als1 at midway.uchicago.edu (william j alspaugh) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 09:27:30 -0500 Subject: Parimal publications Message-ID: <161227023865.23782.4908922152403761145.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Directory of Indian Publishers and Distributors for 1994 gives the number for Parimal Publishers, New Delhi, as 644-7068. This is more recent than the number previously posted. As Allen Thrasher noted, they are not in the 1994 Delhi phonebook. Bill Alspaugh, U. of Chicago Library Bitnet: uclals1 at uchimvs1 Internet: als1 at midway.uchicago.edu From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk Wed Apr 17 09:07:00 1996 From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 10:07:00 +0100 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023861.23782.16437037031403387949.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, > The last statement is incorrect, because the makara samkranti is the >Sun's entry into the >sidereal constellation of Capricorn, whereas the uttarAyaNa always starts >with the entry of the Sun into the tropical sign of Capricorn, that is, at >the time of the Winter solstice. These two no longer coincide, as has >been explained, because of precession. Well, I don't think you are right. According to the jyotisha paNDitas, the Sun enters the constellation of Capricorn on or around the 14th of January and uttarAyaNa starts then. The Sun, according to the popular press, enters the tropical constellation of Capricorn around the 22nd(?) of December. The ayanAMsha has already been taken care of. The debate here is the precise gap between the two dates. If someone knows the precise age (or probable age WITH errors) of something like the sUrya siddhAnta then one might do some calculations using likelihood techniques and get a PROBABLE value for the ayanAMsha. One has to take into account all sorts of effects including the decrease (small) in the rate of rotation of the Earth. Besides, one should use the technical term rAshi instead of constellation as I never see the constellation of Ophiuchus mentionned at all even though it is bang on the celestial equator. Bye, Girish Beeharry From dplukker at inter.NL.net Wed Apr 17 09:20:21 1996 From: dplukker at inter.NL.net (dplukker at inter.NL.net) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 11:20:21 +0200 Subject: Parimal publications Message-ID: <161227023863.23782.69968196597188583.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Does anyone have a fax number, phone number, or email address for >Parimal Publications, 22/17 Shakti Nagar, Delhi 110007 ? >Jim Hartzell > The Directory of Indian Booksellers and Publishers (1986) has: 7111261. Dick Plukker India Institute, Amsterdam From reimann at uclink.berkeley.edu Wed Apr 17 21:41:12 1996 From: reimann at uclink.berkeley.edu (Luis Arnold Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 14:41:12 -0700 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023873.23782.17262081757520874866.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Wed, 17 Apr 1996, Martin Gansten wrote: > Girish Beeharry writes: > > >Well, I don't think you are right. According to the jyotisha paNDitas, the Sun > >enters the constellation of Capricorn on or around the 14th of January and > >uttarAyaNa starts then. The Sun, according to the popular press, enters > >the tropical constellation of Capricorn around the 22nd(?) of December. The > >ayanAMsha has already been taken care of. > > I'm still not sure the indology list is the right forum for this discussion, > but anyway: the northern and southern courses of the sun (the ayanas) are > not really related to the rAs'is; they are related to the summer and winter > solstices, which no longer coincide with the sidereal saMkrAntis. Any > paNDita worth his salt surely knows this. Like the equinoctial points, the > solstice points are slowly regressing through the zodiac; in a few hundred > years, they will coincide with dhanuH- and mithuna-saMkrAntis, respectively. > > Martin Gansten > mgansten at sbbs.se > > > Although Martin Gansten has already clarified the point, I still would like to add the following: If there are pANditas today who claim the uttarAyaNa starts around January 14, then they must have redefined the meaning of the term utttarAyaNa (and of its conterpart, dakSiNAyana). Since the time of the BrAhmaNas the three main astronomical cycles (the day, the lunar month, the year) have been divided into a light and a dark half. During the light half, light is increasing and darkness decreasing; during the dark half, the situation is reversed. The light half of the Moon's cycle goes from new to full Moon; the light half of the daily cycle goes from sunrise to sunset (although it should really go from midnight to noon, and some BrAhmaNas do account for this). The light half of the yearly cycle goes from the winter solstice to the summer solstice, because the day of the winter solstice is the shortest one of the year, and, thus, from then on days start lasting longer, in other words, light is increasing. In the UpaniSads and the GItA the light halves are considered auspicious, and that is why BhISma(in the Mbh) waited for 58 nights before dying, so he could do it when the Sun had "turned", that is, on or after the winter solstice. This has nothing to do with the rAs'is, as they have fallen out of synch with the seasons. When the ayanAms'a was zero, some 1 600 years ago, they coincided for a brief period. The shortest day of the year is clearly not around the 14th of January. As for the age of the SUrya SiddhAnta, you might want to consult David Pingree's JyotiHs'Astra: Astral and Mathematical Literature. Wiesbaden: Otto Harrassowitz, 1981. Sincerely, Luis Gonzalez-Reimann Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies University of California, Berkeley From pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu Wed Apr 17 21:02:34 1996 From: pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Peter Gaeffke) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 17:02:34 -0400 Subject: oriya instruction Message-ID: <161227023871.23782.8152673058524761432.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Since nobody reacted to the query about Oriya instruction I may give the following lead: the South Asian Department of the University of Heidelberg has worked for years on its Oriya project of which many publications appeared. Prof. Kulke wrote the Oriya bibliography with contains many thousand entries among them also about grammar and instruction. I assume that there is still knowledge about Oriya available in Heidelberg or at least somebody there may know more to satisfy the question. Peter Gaeffke From pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu Thu Apr 18 00:39:06 1996 From: pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu (pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 17:39:06 -0700 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023876.23782.18171668011957620736.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> If the Indology List is not for interesting discussions such as this, what IS it for? Discussion of fonts?!! Peter Claus From biernack at ccat.sas.upenn.edu Wed Apr 17 23:14:17 1996 From: biernack at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Loriliai Biernacki) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 19:14:17 -0400 Subject: Email in Benares Message-ID: <161227023874.23782.3410165636305726453.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I'm wondering if anyone has specific information about acquiring access to email in Benares. Thanks in advance, Loriliai Biernacki University of Pennsylvania From mgansten at sbbs.se Wed Apr 17 17:48:00 1996 From: mgansten at sbbs.se (mgansten at sbbs.se) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 19:48:00 +0200 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023867.23782.10880215747395640327.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Girish Beeharry writes: >Well, I don't think you are right. According to the jyotisha paNDitas, the Sun >enters the constellation of Capricorn on or around the 14th of January and >uttarAyaNa starts then. The Sun, according to the popular press, enters >the tropical constellation of Capricorn around the 22nd(?) of December. The >ayanAMsha has already been taken care of. I'm still not sure the indology list is the right forum for this discussion, but anyway: the northern and southern courses of the sun (the ayanas) are not really related to the rAs'is; they are related to the summer and winter solstices, which no longer coincide with the sidereal saMkrAntis. Any paNDita worth his salt surely knows this. Like the equinoctial points, the solstice points are slowly regressing through the zodiac; in a few hundred years, they will coincide with dhanuH- and mithuna-saMkrAntis, respectively. Martin Gansten mgansten at sbbs.se From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk Wed Apr 17 20:38:59 1996 From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 21:38:59 +0100 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023869.23782.5023759859088710092.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, >I'm still not sure the indology list is the right forum for this discussion, >but anyway: the northern and southern courses of the sun (the ayanas) are >not really related to the rAs'is; they are related to the summer and winter >solstices, which no longer coincide with the sidereal saMkrAntis. Any >paNDita worth his salt surely knows this. Like the equinoctial points, the >solstice points are slowly regressing through the zodiac; in a few hundred >years, they will coincide with dhanuH- and mithuna-saMkrAntis, respectively. You are right, the Indology list is not really meant for this discussion. The ayanas are related to the raashis in the sense that the raashis provide one of the axes of reference for the motions of the grahas. The grahas describe curves whose trajectories are projected on the celestial sphere. Therefore, as we are dealing with a motion in three dimensions, we need two other axes of reference to describe completely how grahas move. One of these axes is found by doing some maths on the points where, say the Sun, starts the uttarAyaNa & the dakshinAyana. Therefore these two concepts, ayanas and rAshis, are intimately connected. The third reference is trivial; as we are working on the surface of a sphere, we do not have to worry about distances. The whole problem of the ayanAMsha lies in defining accurately the precise set of spherical rotations that will map the sidereal system onto the tropical one. I am sorry if this sounds like sci.astro.research! :-) Members wishing to continue this interesting discussion are invited to do so privately. Bye, Girish Beeharry From selindqu at rainbow.uchicago.edu Thu Apr 18 05:39:45 1996 From: selindqu at rainbow.uchicago.edu (selindqu at rainbow.uchicago.edu) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 00:39:45 -0500 Subject: Inquiry re: the nature of 'kaarikaa' Message-ID: <161227023880.23782.13816184351492024104.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> (Please pardon ITRANS mistakes, it is not something that I have ever had the need to learn before). I am currently doing work with the Gau.dapada-kaarikaa and had a question re: the nature of the term 'kaarikaa'. As I understand the term, it refers to verse form (of a particular metre?). I have been told that it maintains a status similar to that of suutra (in a sense, a verse form of suutra). I have been unable to find any good scholarship that deals with such 'genre' terms. My questions are these: Does kaarikaa refer to a type of text as well or just to the verse form. I am only aware of philosophical kaarikaas, though I have been told that there are kaarikaas on poetics that are not 'philosophical'-- this was the other person's term. If it is a verse form, is it just one type of verse or does it include more than that? Also, any Sanskrit definitions of kaarikaa would be greatly welcome (please include the citation if possible). The reason that I ask these questions is that I am trying to come to terms with the relationship of the Maa.n.duukya Upani.sad with the Gau.dapada-kaarikaa, which strikes me as a unique and perplexing textual situation since I am unaware of any other kaarikaa being self-consciously written on another type of root text (.sruti, no less) which is also in verse (meaning that they are often the object of commentaries, rather than a sort of verse-form 'commentarial rewrite' in themselves). I am aware of the argument that says that the upani.sad was written later, but that does not seem plausible given that .Samkara saw them as independent texts (and it seems implausible he would have readily accepted the upani.sad as .sruti in the course of one or two hundred years). Any thoughts on these matters would be greatly appreciated. -Steven Steven E. Lindquist University of Chicago From jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Thu Apr 18 08:43:09 1996 From: jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (jgardner at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 02:43:09 -0600 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023884.23782.12884853621802500037.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Doesn't Indology MEAN fonts? :-) **************************************************************************** ****************** John Robert Gardner, M.A. Asian Languages & Literature University of Iowa uushaa vaa ashvasya medhyasya shiraaH Iowa City, IA 52242 **************************************************************************** ****************** "It is ludicrous to consider language as anything other than that of which it is the transformation" From zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl Thu Apr 18 05:08:04 1996 From: zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl (zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 04:08:04 -0100 Subject: oriya instruction Message-ID: <161227023908.23782.953797291476325564.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Replies to msg 17 Apr 96: indology at liverpool.ac.uk (pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu) psue> Subject: Re: oriya instruction psue> Since nobody reacted to the query about Oriya instruction psue> I may give psue> the following lead: psue> the South Asian Department of the University of Heidelberg psue> has worked for psue> years on its Oriya project of which many publications psue> appeared. Prof. psue> Kulke wrote the Oriya bibliography with contains many psue> thousand entries psue> among them also about grammar and instruction. I assume psue> that there is psue> still knowledge about Oriya available in Heidelberg or at psue> least somebody psue> there may know more to satisfy the question. Prof. H. Kulke has moved to the Univ. of Kiel (Germany), where he now teaches Asian history in the Dept. of History. To my knowledge none of the participants in the Heidelberg Orissa project with philological interests are any longer at Heidelberg. Another person who has concentrated on Oriya / Orissan studies is John Boulton. He used to work at SOAS, London, I believe, but he may have retired by now. Robert Zydenbos From zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl Thu Apr 18 05:11:34 1996 From: zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl (zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 04:11:34 -0100 Subject: Email in Benares Message-ID: <161227023906.23782.11985896781954531586.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Replies to msg 18 Apr 96: indology at liverpool.ac.uk (biernack at ccat.sas.upenn.edu) bsue> I'm wondering if anyone has specific information about bsue> acquiring access bsue> to email in Benares. Thanks in advance, If you can show that you are a 'bona fide' scholar at an American academic institution, you may be able to persuade the administrator at an institution in Benares (BHU, perhaps) to grant you temporary access. I've heard that some people have been able to make such arrangements for themselves in Bangalore; but whether this also goes in the North, I can't say. The cheapest commercial way to have email is through VSNL (Videsh Sanchar Nigam Ltd.), which has servers in Delhi, Calcutta, Bombay, Bangalore and Madras. But I understand they demand payment for a year in advance, and you must reckon with the extremely noisy telephone lines in India when making long distance logins. An American colleague in Mysore finally gave up searching for local possibilities and logged in to his American email account twice a week. The phone link Mysore-USA is via satellite, and it worked reasonably well. Robert Zydenbos From jftzgrld at utkux.utcc.utk.edu Thu Apr 18 11:13:41 1996 From: jftzgrld at utkux.utcc.utk.edu (James L. Fitzgerald) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 07:13:41 -0400 Subject: e-text of ManusmRti Message-ID: <161227023891.23782.5871481233654917732.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I too have just downloaded the ManusmRti and would like to express my gratitude for this great service. I use the e-texts of the MBh, the RaamaayaNa, and the Arthazaastra intensively on a daily basis and am profoundly grateful to those who have made it possible. I look forward to putting the e-text of Manu to good use as well. Jim Fitzgerald, University of Tennessee, Knoxville From MDSAAA48 at GIASMD01.VSNL.NET.IN Thu Apr 18 02:18:24 1996 From: MDSAAA48 at GIASMD01.VSNL.NET.IN (MDSAAA48 at GIASMD01.VSNL.NET.IN) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 07:18:24 +0500 Subject: Email in Benares Message-ID: <161227023878.23782.6978623979060312250.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, The best option will be to open an account (TCP/IP)(PPP)with VSNL, New Delhi and make an STD call from Benares to Delhi to get into the web. The cost will be Rs. 15000 per year of 250 hours whichever is earlier. Good luck. Dr. S. Kalyanaraman >I'm wondering if anyone has specific information about acquiring access >to email in Benares. Thanks in advance, > >Loriliai Biernacki >University of Pennsylvania > > > From cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu Thu Apr 18 11:28:23 1996 From: cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu (cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 07:28:23 -0400 Subject: Inquiry re: the nature of 'kaarikaa' Message-ID: <161227023893.23782.9100341909081833597.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >(Please pardon ITRANS mistakes, it is not something that I have ever had >the need to learn before). I am currently doing work with the >Gau.dapada-kaarikaa and had a question re: the nature of the term >'kaarikaa'. As I understand the term, it refers to verse form (of a >particular metre?). I have been told that it maintains a status similar to >that of suutra (in a sense, a verse form of suutra). I have been unable to >find any good scholarship that deals with such 'genre' terms. My questions >are these: Does kaarikaa refer to a type of text as well or just to the >verse form. I am only aware of philosophical kaarikaas, though I have been >told that there are kaarikaas on poetics that are not 'philosophical'-- >this was the other person's term. If it is a verse form, is it just one >type of verse or does it include more than that? Also, any Sanskrit >definitions of kaarikaa would be greatly welcome (please include the >citation if possible). > >The reason that I ask these questions is that I am trying to come to terms >with the relationship of the Maa.n.duukya Upani.sad with the >Gau.dapada-kaarikaa, which strikes me as a unique and perplexing textual >situation since I am unaware of any other kaarikaa being self-consciously >written on another type of root text (.sruti, no less) which is also in >verse (meaning that they are often the object of commentaries, rather than >a sort of verse-form 'commentarial rewrite' in themselves). I am aware of >the argument that says that the upani.sad was written later, but that does >not seem plausible given that .Samkara saw them as independent texts (and >it seems implausible he would have readily accepted the upani.sad as .sruti >in the course of one or two hundred years). > >Any thoughts on these matters would be greatly appreciated. > >-Steven > > >Steven E. Lindquist >University of Chicago The most succinct description I know of concerninga kArikA is found in Hemacandra's AbhidhAnacintAmaNi (2.172): kArikA tu svalpavRttau bahor arthasya sUcinI. This captures the essence: it is a verse that conveys a great deal in a short compass, so that it is a verse equivalent of a sUtra (which also can at least in part be metrical) From Williams at wplink.dt.uh.edu Thu Apr 18 13:14:29 1996 From: Williams at wplink.dt.uh.edu (Pat Williams) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 08:14:29 -0500 Subject: Request: References on advaitic cognition Message-ID: <161227023899.23782.2346892478391548209.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I'd appreciate receiving list members' suggestions about books and articles that give a clear and thorough account of cognitive structures and processes from the advaitic perspective. Thanks for your kind attention. _________________________________________________________ Patrick S. Williams | Social Sciences, U. of Houston-Downtown pwilliams at uh.edu | One Main Street, Houston, TX 77002-1001 | Voice: (713) 221-8982, Fax: (713) 221-8144 From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov Thu Apr 18 14:43:05 1996 From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 09:43:05 -0500 Subject: R: Kaarikai Message-ID: <161227023902.23782.11032459665231266162.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> R: Kaarikai ************* There is an old proverb: kaarikai kaRRuk kavi pATuvatilum, pErikai koTTip pizaippatu n^anRE! (It is easier to make a living as a drummer in the army, than trying to become a poet after learning the hard "kaarikai"!) Recent English translation: Ulrike Niklas, The verses on the precious jewel prosody. Composed by Amitacakarar with the commentary by Kunacakarar. Text, translation and Notes by U. Niklas Pondichery: Institut Francais de Pondichery, 1993, 467 p. N. Ganesan From srini at engin.umich.edu Thu Apr 18 13:55:46 1996 From: srini at engin.umich.edu (Srinivasan Pichumani) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 09:55:46 -0400 Subject: Inquiry re: the nature of 'kaarikaa' Message-ID: <161227023901.23782.3664788836569789180.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Prof.Cardona writes: >>kArikA tu svalpavRttau bahor arthasya sUcinI. >>This captures the essence: it is a verse that conveys a >>great deal in a short compass, so that it is a verse >>equivalent of a sUtra (which also can at least in part be >>metrical) As a parallel, this is essentially the greatness of the "kuRaL" form too, as used in the immortal TirukkuRaL of TiruvaLLuvar. The historian P.T.Srinivasa Iyengar (1863-1931) mentions in one of his books, in passing, this verse form of the TirukkuraL's teachings as against the largely prosaic ;-) form of Sanskrit dars'ana literature. -Srini. From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov Thu Apr 18 15:00:27 1996 From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 10:00:27 -0500 Subject: R: kaarikai (2) Message-ID: <161227023904.23782.15754384018861710316.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> R: Kaarikai ************* There is a set of two medieval books on grammar, Yaapparungkalam and Yaapparungkalak kaarikai. In tamil, kaarikai means a girl too. Is it also the same in Sanskrit? An old proverb warns: kaarikai kaRRuk kavi pATuvatilum, pErikai koTTip pizaippatu n^anRE! (It is easier to make a living as a drummer in the army, than trying to become a poet after learning the hard "kaarikai"!) Recent English translation: Ulrike Niklas, The verses on the precious jewel prosody. Composed by Amitacakarar with the commentary by Kunacakarar. Text, translation and Notes by U. Niklas Pondichery: Institut Francais de Pondichery, 1993, 467 p. N. Ganesan From Jon.Skarpeid at hint.no Thu Apr 18 08:15:08 1996 From: Jon.Skarpeid at hint.no (Jon Skarpeid) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 10:15:08 +0200 Subject: Music: form, tambura Message-ID: <161227023885.23782.5770687773330994748.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> North Indian classic music consist on four elements, the drone, the melodi, the second melodi and drums. 1. Is there any book/articles available which discuss this form or four elements in Indian music? I havn't found any. 2. Is there any book/articles available that deals with the "drone"? I havn't found any. 3. Contain "classical indian literature" any reference to the tambura? Jon Skarpeid From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Thu Apr 18 10:59:48 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 10:59:48 +0000 Subject: e-text of ManusmRti Message-ID: <161227023887.23782.2777659070781712275.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Michio, Again we owe you a great debt of gratitude for making another major text available in machine-readable form. Thank you! Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk, Wellcome Institute, 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE. FAX: +44 171 611 8545 email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html From aditya at icanect.net Thu Apr 18 11:34:08 1996 From: aditya at icanect.net (aditya at icanect.net) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 11:34:08 +0000 Subject: e-text of ManusmRti Message-ID: <161227023895.23782.4633314479737869012.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp has recently written as follows: >The e-text of the ManusmRti is now available at my ftp site: Thanks Michio YANO: I just downloaded it and it is so nice to have e-text. Have a prosperous and peaceful day. --------------- Aditya Mishra http://www.icanect.net/~aditya *********************************************************** The opinions expressed herein are continually mutating and* might have already been changed by the time you read them* owing to the more recent information that became available* *********************************************************** From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Thu Apr 18 11:21:12 1996 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 12:21:12 +0100 Subject: e-text of ManusmRti Message-ID: <161227023889.23782.7123427308999865942.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I just downloaded Prof. Yano's electronic version of Manu. I would like to thank him for this splendid service to the indological community! Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Research Fellow Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From reimann at uclink.berkeley.edu Thu Apr 18 19:29:22 1996 From: reimann at uclink.berkeley.edu (Luis Arnold Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 12:29:22 -0700 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023910.23782.6649362914996146615.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Thu, 18 Apr 1996, Girish Beeharry wrote: > Hi, > > There seems to be some confusion about basic spherical trigonometry in an > astronomical context. As my pedagogical skills are not quite up to the mark, I > would suggest to interested people to consult these two books: > > 1) General Astronomy by Spencer Jones, Former Astronomer Royal, (3rd Ed, 1951), > published by Edward Arnold, London. [No ISBN code] > (Chapter 3 is related to matters being discussed here.) > > 2) The Astronomical Almanach for the year 1996 [ISBN 0 11 886502 1] > > The Govt. Bookstore, PO Box 276, London, SW8 5DT (World distribution) > HMSO Bookshops, 49 Holborn, London, WC1V 6HB (for the UK) > US Govt. Printing Office, Washington DC, 20402, (for the USA) > > (There are sections on the geocentric motions of the Sun, Moon and Planets.) > > These books make use of O-Levelish maths only and they should be accessible to > a non-mathematical audience. > > One can actually get a good physical sense of the matter by drawing closed > great circle lines on a fixed ball. One can then complicate matters by rotating > the ball about an axis which is at an angle (say 20 to 30 degrees) to a line > passing through the centre of the ball and perpendicular to one of the great > circle lines drawn previously. This is quite entertaining! :-) > > Bye, > > Girish Beharry > > I am sure anyone on the list not conversant with spherical astronomy would benefit from these books if they were interested in pursuing the matter at that level. There are also other good introductions to the subject. Nevertheless, our discussion about the beginning of the uttarAyaNa (the Sun's movement towards the North) does not require of spherical astronomy. If one wishes to understand precession, such texts could be useful, as might a visit to the local planetarium. But it must be kept in mind that a concept such as uttarAyaNa (as also, for that matter,that of solstice "when the Sun stands still") is not derived from an understanding of our kind of astronomy, which is fully aware of the fact that the earth is round, and that it revolves around the Sun. The concept of uttarAyaNa is derived from the observation of the apparent daily movement of the Sun above the horizon. More precisely, it is based on the fact that the Sun does not rise at the same point along the horizon each day. At the winter solstice (the shortest day of the year), the Sun rises far to the right of due East. Each subsequent day it rises more to the left, i.e. to the north; first slowly, and then faster as it passes by due East (at the time of the spring equinox), and it slows again when it nears the point where it rises further to the north of due East, at the time of the summer solstice (the longest day of the year). The Sun then turns, and begins its movement towards the South (the right), the dakSiNAyana. All of this happens regardless of what the position of the solstices and the equinoxes is against the backdrop of the stars. In other words, it doesn't matter what rA'si - or should we rather say, in a Vedic context, what nakSatra- the solstices might happen to fall on at the time. These two halves of the year played an important role in Vedic ritual, particularly in the gavAm Ayana. Cheers, Luis Gonzalez-Reimann Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies University of California, Berkeley From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk Thu Apr 18 12:55:12 1996 From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 13:55:12 +0100 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023897.23782.14535864264017384282.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, There seems to be some confusion about basic spherical trigonometry in an astronomical context. As my pedagogical skills are not quite up to the mark, I would suggest to interested people to consult these two books: 1) General Astronomy by Spencer Jones, Former Astronomer Royal, (3rd Ed, 1951), published by Edward Arnold, London. [No ISBN code] (Chapter 3 is related to matters being discussed here.) 2) The Astronomical Almanach for the year 1996 [ISBN 0 11 886502 1] The Govt. Bookstore, PO Box 276, London, SW8 5DT (World distribution) HMSO Bookshops, 49 Holborn, London, WC1V 6HB (for the UK) US Govt. Printing Office, Washington DC, 20402, (for the USA) (There are sections on the geocentric motions of the Sun, Moon and Planets.) These books make use of O-Levelish maths only and they should be accessible to a non-mathematical audience. One can actually get a good physical sense of the matter by drawing closed great circle lines on a fixed ball. One can then complicate matters by rotating the ball about an axis which is at an angle (say 20 to 30 degrees) to a line passing through the centre of the ball and perpendicular to one of the great circle lines drawn previously. This is quite entertaining! :-) Bye, Girish Beharry From yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp Thu Apr 18 05:38:50 1996 From: yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 14:38:50 +0900 Subject: e-text of ManusmRti Message-ID: <161227023882.23782.12229437764798165662.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, The e-text of the ManusmRti is now available at my ftp site: ccftp.kyoto-su.ac.jp. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You can ftp by anonymous login (with your ID as password). The text is at the directory: pub/doc/sanskrit/dharmas ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ by the name: manu.dhz.Z ~~~~~~~~~ The text is compressed. You can uncompress it by the `uncompress' command on your unix. Michio YANO Kyoto Sangyo University yanom at cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (exclusively for INDOLOGY) From AmitaSarin at aol.com Thu Apr 18 20:25:53 1996 From: AmitaSarin at aol.com (AmitaSarin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 16:25:53 -0400 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023912.23782.2445857418621711171.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Now that we have decided that it is perfectly appropriate to discuss astrology/astronomy on Indology, I'd like to continue by restating what I have learned from the discussion thus far in simple language (in reln. to my question on festivals). Some festivals in India are based on the cycles of the moon and their dates change from year to year on the western calendar. Festivals that have a constant date are based on a sort of solar/sidereal system ie. the entry of the sun into certain stellar constellations. Pongal, Lohri, Makara Sankranti etc. which are celebrated around the 13th-14th of January coincide with the sun's entry into the constellation of Capricorn. Once upon a time this event coincided with the sun being over the tropic of Capricorn (winter solstice), but because of precession (slippage) this is no longer the case. Currently, the winter solstice is on December 23rd, the shortest day of the year. (However, according to at least one Hindu temple calendar that I have seen, Uttaraayana, or the sun's journey to the north, still begins on the 14th of January, which is apparently still considered the winter solstice according to some traditions). April 13th, when the sun enters the constellation of meshasamkranti, is celebrated as New Year by many communities all over India. March 21st, the spring equinox, when days and nights are equal, sort of coincides with Navroze, the Persian New Year. However, from what I have understood from Mughal sources, this was also calculated according to the sidereal system, and was based on the time the sun entered the constellation of Aries. As far as I know, no Hindu festivals are based on the spring equinox. I beg your indulgence for the above. This discussion has refreshed and deepened my understanding of the subject. I request the astronomy/astrology gurus to correct my mistakes. Many thanks, Amita Sarin From srini at engin.umich.edu Thu Apr 18 20:59:29 1996 From: srini at engin.umich.edu (Srinivasan Pichumani) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 16:59:29 -0400 Subject: Music: form, tambura Message-ID: <161227023919.23782.12882672376935439141.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> 1. Is there any book/articles available which discuss this form or four elements in Indian music? I havn't found any. If you are looking for general books, this may be useful Author: Nijenhuis, Emmie te. Title: Indian music : history and structure Published: Leiden : Brill, 1974. 2. Is there any book/articles available that deals with the "drone"? I havn't found any. B.C.Deva's article "The Emergence of the Drone in India music" (Journal of the Music Academy, Madras, 1952) is about the only extensive one I have seen on this subject. It is reprinted in his book "The Music of India: A Scientific Study". This book also carries a reprint of his other article titled "Tonal structure of the tambura" from the same journal (1956). 3. Contain "classical indian literature" any reference to the tambura? The first article cited above says that the specific drone instrument, tambura, is not found in literary or pictorial sources till the end of Middle Ages (?). Certainly, other instruments like the vINa, yAzh, flute, etc were used as accompaniment to vocal music, and possibly served as a sort of drone too. And there were other folk instruments like the ek-tAr serving the same function. But, it is not till the 15th, 16th centuries that, due to various dramatic changes, the tambura-style drone becomes indispensable. Some of these changes are - music making based on a fixed tonic rather than modally shifting the tonic, associating S permanently with the tonic thus rendering it invariant and analogously the fifth or P. -Srini. From thompson at handel.jlc.net Thu Apr 18 21:52:46 1996 From: thompson at handel.jlc.net (thompson at handel.jlc.net) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 17:52:46 -0400 Subject: debates, grammar, & Vedic Message-ID: <161227023921.23782.18335686408599894261.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Preoccupied as I am with things Vedic, I found the recent discussion of debates rather interesting, and I am reluctant to see it close without further comment [I also confess that I've lost interest in the current thread on the New Year and would like to change the subject]. It seems to me that throughout its history Vedic and Brahmanic India has shown a certain predilection for debate, for the assertion of personal authority through verbal dexterity, i.e., through performance in verbal contests of various sorts. The various postings have shown that this predilection has persevered through the Vedic period into the classical and medievel periods, even up to the present time. I think that it can be said, *without debate*, that the Brahmins of classical India were known to their contemporaries in, e.g., Greece, Rome, and China, as skillful rhetoricians. It seems to me that this skill in debate and in rhetoric is clearly related to another prominent feature of classical India: the long distinguished history of the native grammarians, a tradition of profound linguistic study that I think goes all the way back to the RV. Would any of Indology's specialists on the grammarians, or anyone else, care to comment on this claim? Sincerely, George Thompson From fsnow at aa.net Fri Apr 19 02:03:31 1996 From: fsnow at aa.net (Frank Snow) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 19:03:31 -0700 Subject: Email in Benares Message-ID: <161227023930.23782.16450061899376437761.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I recommend an e-mail service called Axcess, which is owned by Business India. (like the magazine of the same name) I used it for most of the last 2 years when I was living in Maharashtra. I don't know if they have local Benares numbers, but I know that they are very popular in New Delhi. Axcess is certainly cheaper, and from what I've heard lately, much more reliable than VSNL. Frank Snow fsnow at aa.net If you have more questions, or if you would like me to find contact numbers, etc. for Axcess, you can e-mail me directly. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment.bin Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1496 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk Thu Apr 18 20:45:48 1996 From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 21:45:48 +0100 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023914.23782.3413581968663898808.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, On Thu, 18 Apr 1996, Luis Arnold Gonzalez-Reimann wrote: > I am sure anyone on the list not conversant with spherical astronomy > would benefit from these books if they were interested in pursuing the > matter at that level. There are also other good introductions to the subject. > Nevertheless, our discussion about the beginning of the uttarAyaNa (the > Sun's movement towards the North) does not require of spherical > astronomy. If one wishes to understand precession, such texts could be > useful, as might a visit to the local planetarium. But it must be kept in > mind that a concept such as uttarAyaNa (as also, for that matter,that of > solstice "when the Sun stands still") is not derived from an > understanding of our kind of astronomy, which is fully aware of the fact > that the earth is round, and that it revolves around the Sun. > I think that we are talking at cross purpose. I find the statement about the uttarAyaNa not requiring spherical trigonometry for an explanation rather strange, at the least. On the contrary, it has everything to do with it. It is like saying that the translation of a Sanskrit text has nothing to do with vyAkaraNa! A 'visit to the local planetarium' is simply another way of saying:'Oh, the maths are a bit hard, lets go to see the applications in a concrete manner.' The laws of astronomy do not depend on culture. They are mathematical. The only thing that differs is that while formerly the astronomers used to write their equations in a geocentric coordinate system, they now prefer the more 'natural' heliocentric system. However, we still are observing from the earth and this is the cause of the difficulties we have in understanding all these concepts clearly. > The concept of uttarAyaNa is derived from the observation of the apparent > daily movement of the Sun above the horizon. More precisely, it is based > on the fact that the Sun does not rise at the same point along the > horizon each day. At the winter solstice (the shortest day of the year), the > Sun rises far to the right > of due East. Each subsequent day it rises more to the left, i.e. to the > north; first slowly, and then faster as it passes by due East (at the time > of the spring equinox), and it slows again when it nears the point where > it rises further to the north of due East, at the time of the summer > solstice (the longest day of the year). The Sun then turns, and begins its > movement towards the South (the right), the dakSiNAyana. > All of this happens regardless of what the position of the solstices and > the equinoxes is against the backdrop of the stars. In other words, it > doesn't matter what rA'si - or should we rather say, in a Vedic context, > what nakSatra- the solstices might happen to fall on at the time. > These two halves of the year played an important role in Vedic ritual, > particularly in the gavAm Ayana. > If one wants to describe the motion of an ant across a sheet of paper, one has to remember that it is moving in two dimensions. So, one has to describe its motion in two sets of coordinates. Surely this is quite simple. One cannot just forget one dimension and just pretend that it is not important. If one replaces the ant by the Sun and the the sheet of paper by the celestial sphere, it is immediately obvious that we cannot just say that "> In other words, it > doesn't matter what rA'si - or should we rather say, in a Vedic context, > what nakSatra- the solstices might happen to fall on at the time" It does simply because the so-called 'First Point of Aries' is not in Aries but in Pisces ( we don't know exactly where and this is how this whole discussion started). It doesn't make much sense to describe the surface of a sphere with one great circle only. Another fact is that when the jyotisha paNDitas talk about the rAshis or nakshatras, they are in fact talking about convenient regions of space which might be, at least within the error bars of the precession correction, the regions where the rAshis and nakshatras were when the sUryasiddhAnta was written. Western astrologers talk about their own particular brand of rAshis by not making the precession correction. The International Astronomers Union have divided the sky into 88 constellations (again different from the former two) and according to that the Sun actually goes through a thirteenth constellation in December, the constellation of Ophiuchus. I am quite disinclined to pursue this matter unless participants study some basic spherical trigonometry and astronomy. Bye, Girish Beeharry. From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk Thu Apr 18 20:54:03 1996 From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 21:54:03 +0100 Subject: Q: New Year Message-ID: <161227023918.23782.12005792514794293870.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, On Thu, 18 Apr 1996 AmitaSarin at aol.com wrote: > Now that we have decided that it is perfectly appropriate to discuss > astrology/astronomy on Indology, I'd like to continue by restating what I > have learned from the discussion thus far in simple language (in reln. to my > question on festivals). > Some festivals in India are based on the cycles of the moon and their dates > change from year to year on the western calendar. > Festivals that have a constant date are based on a sort of solar/sidereal > system ie. the entry of the sun into certain stellar constellations. Pongal, > Lohri, Makara Sankranti etc. which are celebrated around the 13th-14th of > January coincide with the sun's entry into the constellation of Capricorn. > Once upon a time this event coincided with the sun being over the tropic of > Capricorn (winter solstice), but because of precession (slippage) this is no > longer the case. Currently, the winter solstice is on December 23rd, the > shortest day of the year. (However, according to at least one Hindu temple > calendar that I have seen, Uttaraayana, or the sun's journey to the north, > still begins on the 14th of January, which is apparently still considered the > winter solstice according to some traditions). > April 13th, when the sun enters the constellation of meshasamkranti, is > celebrated as New Year by many communities all over India. > March 21st, the spring equinox, when days and nights are equal, sort of > coincides with Navroze, the Persian New Year. However, from what I have > understood from Mughal sources, this was also calculated according to the > sidereal system, and was based on the time the sun entered the constellation > of Aries. As far as I know, no Hindu festivals are based on the spring > equinox. This is from 'The Astronomical Almanach for the year 1996': In geocentric coordinates and in Universal Time Coordinates (formerly GMT):- Equinoxes 20th March at 08h03m 22nd September at 18h00m Solstices 21st June at 02h24m 21st December at 14h06m Bye, Girish Beeharry From y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu Fri Apr 19 03:10:05 1996 From: y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu (y.r.rani at mail.utexas.edu) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 22:10:05 -0500 Subject: Jyotishii Query (was: Re: Q: New Year) Message-ID: <161227023937.23782.14615685968517231259.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Since the "astronomy/astrology gurus" seem to be enervated, I would like to ask a jyotishii query: What is the significance of the of the North and South nodes of the moon? How much emphasis or importance are they given in the Indian horoscope? Viewed by western astrology, Rahu is seen as an element of Indic astrology and symbolizes karma and reincarnation. Popular western astrology more or less ignores the nodes. How important are they in the Indian system(s). Thanks, Yvette Rosser UT Austin From chibbard at pobox.upenn.edu Fri Apr 19 02:31:39 1996 From: chibbard at pobox.upenn.edu (chibbard at pobox.upenn.edu) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 22:31:39 -0400 Subject: verse identification Message-ID: <161227023933.23782.11275820144595727908.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have been unable to identify several verses or verse fragments while preparing an edition of Vidhiviveka, NyAyakaNikA, and supercommentaries JuSadhvankaraNI and SvaditankaraNI. Some of the subscribers may perhaps recognize these either from their source of some other citation. 1. prabalarajase vi'svotpattau bhavAya namo namaH 2. dvAveva ninditau loke nirA'sankAti'sankitau 3. This buddhist logician's (Dharmottara's?) verse is probably extant otherwise only in a Tibetan translation. nibandhAropyAhuH - arthakriyAsukhAdyAtmajnAnameva tathAvidham | pramANalakSaNAyogi svatodhigata'saktikam Elliot M. Stern From zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl Thu Apr 18 23:45:02 1996 From: zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl (zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 22:45:02 -0100 Subject: Email in Benares Message-ID: <161227023923.23782.18048186715979220552.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Replies to msg 18 Apr 96: indology at liverpool.ac.uk (MDSAAA48 at GIASMD01.VSNL.NET.IN) MVNI> The best option will be to open an account MVNI> (TCP/IP)(PPP)with VSNL, New Delhi MVNI> and make an STD call from Benares to Delhi to get into the MVNI> web. The cost MVNI> will be Rs. 15000 per year of 250 hours whichever is MVNI> earlier. Good luck. MVNI> Dr. S. Kalyanaraman That is the expensive option. If simple email (using a Unix interface, with the Pine mailer program) is enough, then it costs only Rs.6000 (=Rs.5000 + Rs.1000 registration). Robert Zydenbos From thompson at handel.jlc.net Fri Apr 19 12:00:04 1996 From: thompson at handel.jlc.net (thompson at handel.jlc.net) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 08:00:04 -0400 Subject: debates, grammar, & Vedic Message-ID: <161227023926.23782.9402652734164352871.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Preoccupied as I am with things Vedic, I found the recent discussion of debates rather interesting, and I am reluctant to see it close without further comment [I also confess that I've lost interest in the current thread on the New Year and would like to change the subject]. It seems to me that throughout its history Vedic and Brahmanic India has shown a certain predilection for debate, for the assertion of personal authority through verbal dexterity, i.e., through performance in verbal contests of various sorts. The various postings have shown that this predilection has persevered through the Vedic period into the classical and medievel periods, even up to the present time. But I think that it can also be said, *without debate*, that the Brahmins of classical India were known to their contemporaries in, e.g., Greece, Rome, and China, as skillful rhetoricians as well, and that interest in rhetoric also has a long history in India. It seems to me that this skill in debate and in rhetoric is clearly related to another prominent feature of classical India: the long distinguished history of the native grammarians, a tradition of remarkable linguistic study that I think goes all the way back to the RV. Would any of Indology's specialists on the grammarians, or anyone else, care to comment on this claim? Sincerely, George Thompson From yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp Thu Apr 18 23:45:32 1996 From: yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 08:45:32 +0900 Subject: e-text of ManusmRti Message-ID: <161227023916.23782.9445459074331334558.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Please remember that the e-text of Manu is a part of a larger project in Kyoto University. Prof. Ikari found an error. It is in M1.26a. I have already corrected it. vivekaarthaM (to be in the muula text) vivekaaya ( in variant) Michio Yano From mmdesh at umich.edu Fri Apr 19 13:29:35 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 09:29:35 -0400 Subject: Music: form, tambura Message-ID: <161227023928.23782.17113459358834144338.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would like to add another book by B. Chaitanya Deva : Psychoacoustics of music and speech, The Music Academy, Madras, 1967. It contains some of the same material as referred to by Srini, but has some more chapters dealing with "the psychology of the drone in melodic music". Madhav Deshpande On Fri, 19 Apr 1996, Srinivasan Pichumani wrote: > 1. Is there any book/articles available which discuss this form or four > elements in Indian music? I havn't found any. > > If you are looking for general books, this may be useful > > Author: Nijenhuis, Emmie te. > Title: Indian music : history and structure > Published: Leiden : Brill, 1974. > > > 2. Is there any book/articles available that deals with the "drone"? > I havn't found any. > > B.C.Deva's article "The Emergence of the Drone in India music" > (Journal of the Music Academy, Madras, 1952) is about the only > extensive one I have seen on this subject. It is reprinted in > his book "The Music of India: A Scientific Study". > > This book also carries a reprint of his other article titled > "Tonal structure of the tambura" from the same journal (1956). > > 3. Contain "classical indian literature" any reference to the tambura? > > The first article cited above says that the specific drone > instrument, tambura, is not found in literary or pictorial > sources till the end of Middle Ages (?). > > Certainly, other instruments like the vINa, yAzh, flute, etc > were used as accompaniment to vocal music, and possibly served > as a sort of drone too. And there were other folk instruments > like the ek-tAr serving the same function. > > But, it is not till the 15th, 16th centuries that, due to various > dramatic changes, the tambura-style drone becomes indispensable. > Some of these changes are - music making based on a fixed tonic > rather than modally shifting the tonic, associating S permanently > with the tonic thus rendering it invariant and analogously the > fifth or P. > > -Srini. > > From vasu at religion.ufl.edu Fri Apr 19 13:48:28 1996 From: vasu at religion.ufl.edu (Vasudha Narayanan) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 09:48:28 -0400 Subject: Music: form, tambura Message-ID: <161227023948.23782.15738370756193019956.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 09:27 AM 4/18/96 BST, you wrote: > >North Indian classic music consist on four elements, the drone, the melodi, >the second melodi and drums. > >1. Is there any book/articles available which discuss this form or four >elements in Indian music? I havn't found any. > >2. Is there any book/articles available that deals with the "drone"? > I havn't found any. > >3. Contain "classical indian literature" any reference to the tambura? > > >Jon Skarpeid > > I have found Bonnie Wade's Music In India: The Classical Traditions (Prentice Hall, 1979) very useful for her discussions on melody, drone and drums. She discusses melody at length in chapter 3, surveying Hindustani and Carnatic notions. There is a whole chapter on percussion instruments (I think she calls it "Rhythm Instruments and Drumming"). Several references to the drone and a discussion on it in one chapter, but I agree with the earlier note from Sri Pichumani that B. Chaitanya Deva has the most extensive research on it in "The Psychoacoustics of Music and Speech" (Madras: Music Academy ?). Vasudha Narayanan, University of Flordia From mmdesh at umich.edu Fri Apr 19 15:10:44 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 11:10:44 -0400 Subject: debates, grammar, & Vedic Message-ID: <161227023935.23782.2583605197779519799.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The skill in debate was indeed an essential skill for most traditions in India, not limited to grammarians by any means. The focus on debate was more a focus on the logic built into any situation, rather than on language per se. Currently I am reading the Carakasamhitaa with a student, and the debates in Carakasamhita are as exhilerating as the debates in Patanjali's Mahabhaazya. It was through debates that one would sharpen both one's conclusions, as well as one's intellectual skills. This is perhaps why the tradition claims: kaaNaadam paaNiniiyam ca sarvaSaastropakaarakam 'the traditions of PaaNini and KaNaada are useful for all traditions.' By the KaNaada tradition, this line mainly intends the skill in logic. Madhav Deshpande On Fri, 19 Apr 1996, George Thompson wrote: > Preoccupied as I am with things Vedic, I found the recent discussion of debates > rather interesting, and I am reluctant to see it close without further > comment [I also confess that I've lost interest in the current thread on > the New Year and would like to change the subject]. It seems to me that > throughout its history Vedic and Brahmanic India has shown a certain > predilection for debate, for the assertion of personal authority through > verbal dexterity, i.e., through performance in verbal contests of various > sorts. The various postings have shown that this predilection has > persevered through the Vedic period into the classical and medievel > periods, even up to the present time. I think that it can be said, *without > debate*, that the Brahmins of classical India were known to their > contemporaries in, e.g., Greece, Rome, and China, as skillful rhetoricians. > > > It seems to me that this skill in debate and in rhetoric is clearly related > to another prominent feature of classical India: the long distinguished > history of the native grammarians, a tradition of profound linguistic study > that I think goes all the way back to the RV. Would any of Indology's > specialists on the grammarians, or anyone else, care to comment on this > claim? > > Sincerely, > George Thompson > > > > > From gthursby at religion.ufl.edu Fri Apr 19 17:15:45 1996 From: gthursby at religion.ufl.edu (Gene Thursby) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 13:15:45 -0400 Subject: Debates Message-ID: <161227023939.23782.8506547726887696487.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In addition to the collection edited by Kenneth W. Jones [_Religious Controversy in British India: Dialogues in South Asian Languages_ (Albany: State University of New York Press, 1992)] cited previously by Laurie Patton, there is further attention to 19th-20th century Arya Samaj styles of debate in Kenneth W. Jones, _Arya Dharm_ (Berkeley: U. of California Press, 1976), G. R. Thursby, _Hindu-Muslim Relations in British India_ (Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1975), and in Gene R. Thursby, "Religious Polemics in the 1920s and the Rushdie Case," _Indo-British Review_, 18, 1 (1990), 51-59. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gene R. Thursby, Department of Religion, University of Florida P.O. Box 117410, 125 Dauer Hall, Gainesville, Florida 32611-7410 (Phone)352-392-1625 (Fax)352-392-7395 From mmdesh at umich.edu Fri Apr 19 17:59:32 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 13:59:32 -0400 Subject: verse identification Message-ID: <161227023942.23782.1310429990593668722.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At least the first segment is from a verse in the Shivamahimnastotra. The Penn library should have several editions of this including the one edited by Norman Brown. Madhav Deshpande On Fri, 19 Apr 1996, Chris Hibbard/E. Stern wrote: > I have been unable to identify several verses or verse fragments while > preparing an edition of Vidhiviveka, NyAyakaNikA, and supercommentaries > JuSadhvankaraNI and SvaditankaraNI. Some of the subscribers may perhaps > recognize these either from their source of some other citation. > > 1. prabalarajase vi'svotpattau bhavAya namo namaH > > 2. dvAveva ninditau loke nirA'sankAti'sankitau > > 3. This buddhist logician's (Dharmottara's?) verse is probably extant > otherwise only in a Tibetan translation. > > nibandhAropyAhuH - > arthakriyAsukhAdyAtmajnAnameva tathAvidham | > pramANalakSaNAyogi svatodhigata'saktikam > > Elliot M. Stern > > > > From hgroover at qualitas.com Fri Apr 19 18:05:55 1996 From: hgroover at qualitas.com (Henry Groover) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 14:05:55 -0400 Subject: Music: form, tambura -Reply Message-ID: <161227023944.23782.16895132487040106198.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would also recommend _Sonic Theology_ by Guy Beck, which deals with musicology as well as the concept of naada-brahman (which as the title suggests is the theme of the book). Unfortunately I don't have a copy handy and don't recall the publisher. It came out very recently (within the last 8 months or so, I believe). Henry Groover >>> Madhav Deshpande 04/19/96 05:41pm >>> I would like to add another book by B. Chaitanya Deva : Psychoacoustics of music and speech, The Music Academy, Madras, 1967. It contains some of the same material as referred to by Srini, but has some more chapters dealing with "the psychology of the drone in melodic music". Madhav Deshpande On Fri, 19 Apr 1996, Srinivasan Pichumani wrote: > 1. Is there any book/articles available which discuss this form or four > elements in Indian music? I havn't found any. > > If you are looking for general books, this may be useful > > Author: Nijenhuis, Emmie te. > Title: Indian music : history and structure > Published: Leiden : Brill, 1974. > > > 2. Is there any book/articles available that deals with the "drone"? > I havn't found any. > > B.C.Deva's article "The Emergence of the Drone in India music" > (Journal of the Music Academy, Madras, 1952) is about the only > extensive one I have seen on this subject. It is reprinted in > his book "The Music of India: A Scientific Study". > > This book also carries a reprint of his other article titled > "Tonal structure of the tambura" from the same journal (1956). > > 3. Contain "classical indian literature" any reference to the tambura? > > The first article cited above says that the specific drone > instrument, tambura, is not found in literary or pictorial > sources till the end of Middle Ages (?). > > Certainly, other instruments like the vINa, yAzh, flute, etc > were used as accompaniment to vocal music, and possibly served > as a sort of drone too. And there were other folk instruments > like the ek-tAr serving the same function. > > But, it is not till the 15th, 16th centuries that, due to various > dramatic changes, the tambura-style drone becomes indispensable. > Some of these changes are - music making based on a fixed tonic > rather than modally shifting the tonic, associating S permanently > with the tonic thus rendering it invariant and analogously the > fifth or P. > > -Srini. > > From girish at mushika.wanet.com Fri Apr 19 21:21:37 1996 From: girish at mushika.wanet.com (girish at mushika.wanet.com) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 14:21:37 -0700 Subject: Wikner preprocessor Message-ID: <161227023957.23782.9092432964589677539.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have been trying to get setup to try the new Wikner Devanagari font but my software tools are not up to compiling the preprocessor "skt.c". Is anybody that can compile this willing to send me an uuencoded executable? I use the path "\emtex\texinput\latex2e\skt.opt" for the option file that is referred to by the define statement at the beginning of the c file. Thanks for any help you can provide. ----------------------------------------------------------- Girish Sharma San Diego, CA girish at mushika.wanet.com From jonathan.silk at wmich.edu Fri Apr 19 18:35:57 1996 From: jonathan.silk at wmich.edu (jonathan.silk at wmich.edu) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 14:35:57 -0400 Subject: A Tibetan misunderstanding of Skt.? Message-ID: <161227023946.23782.5659821045990499492.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I just came across what seems perhaps to be a strange Tibetan mis-translation. I wonder if anyone else has ever seen such a thing. rnal 'byor ma lags so // seems (?!) to intended as a rendering of na yujyate. Has anyone ever seen this? (This is from a suutra translation in the Kanjur, not a "saastra.) Thanks, Jonathan From aditya at icanect.net Fri Apr 19 17:17:07 1996 From: aditya at icanect.net (aditya at icanect.net) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 17:17:07 +0000 Subject: Email in Benares Message-ID: <161227023941.23782.11194140883724855060.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> zydenbos at flevoland.xs4all.nl (Robert Zydenbos) has on Fri, 19 Apr 1996 14:31:26 BST written as follows: >That is the expensive option. If simple email (using a Unix interface, with the >Pine mailer program) is enough, then it costs only Rs.6000 (=Rs.5000 + Rs.1000 >registration). Have a prosperous and peaceful day. --------------- Aditya Mishra http://www.icanect.net/~aditya *********************************************************** The opinions expressed herein are continually mutating and* might have already been changed by the time you read them* owing to the more recent information that became available* *********************************************************** From rcohen at sas.upenn.edu Sat Apr 20 00:10:30 1996 From: rcohen at sas.upenn.edu (rcohen at sas.upenn.edu) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 20:10:30 -0400 Subject: Death of Ernest Bender Message-ID: <161227023962.23782.2856480662396047283.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Ernest Bender (1919-1996), founding member of the South Asia Regional Studies Department of the University of Pennsylvania, also member of the Asian and Middle Eastern Studies Department (formerly Oriental Studies Dept.) from 1948-1989, and long-time editor of the Journal of the American Oriental Society, as well as the Society's president, passed away at his home in suburban Philadelphia on April 18th. -- Richard J. Cohen, Assistant Director, South Asia Regional Studies University of Pennsylvania, 820 Williams Hall, Univ. of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305, Tel: 215-898-7475; Fax: 215-573-2138 E-mail: rcohen at mail.sas.upenn.edu From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk Fri Apr 19 19:17:10 1996 From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 20:17:10 +0100 Subject: Jyotishii Query (was: Re: Q: New Year) Message-ID: <161227023953.23782.7614602818927985591.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, On Fri, 19 Apr 1996, Yvette C. Rosser wrote: > What is the significance of the of the North and South nodes of the moon? > They are not 'real' grahas but upagrahas. raahu is related to the outside world, egocentric behaviour, dealings with the public and is linked to what one is supposed to achieve in the present life. ketu is related to the inside world, spirituality, secrets and is linked to the karma of previous lives. Both are linked to tamas qualities. They are outside the 'graha varna'. They are always at 180 degrees from each other, but that is obvious. > How much emphasis or importance are they given in the Indian horoscope? > I don't know. They are not given any bala in the dR^shhTi calculations. The raahu mahaadashaa is 18 years long while the ketu one is 7 years long. Some people think that their influence is akin to mangala and shani. I think ketu is linked to shani and raahu to mangala but I'm not sure. You should perhaps consult a jyotisha; they may have a list somewhere! :-) I suspect, however, that many are taken up with the upcoming polls in India... Bye, Girish Beeharry From mgansten at sbbs.se Fri Apr 19 19:08:22 1996 From: mgansten at sbbs.se (mgansten at sbbs.se) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 21:08:22 +0200 Subject: Jyotishii Query Message-ID: <161227023951.23782.1397840015894552550.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Yvette Rosser wrote: >What is the significance of the of the North and South nodes of the moon? > >How much emphasis or importance are they given in the Indian horoscope? > >Viewed by western astrology, Rahu is seen as an element of Indic astrology >and symbolizes karma and reincarnation. Popular western astrology more or >less ignores the nodes. How important are they in the Indian system(s). The nodes, known as rAhu (north node) and ketu (south node), are rarely mentioned in what is generally considered to be the oldest stratum of astrological texts (such as varAhamihira's bR^ihajjAtaka), but in classical texts, they are no less important than the other seven 'planets', from the Sun to Saturn. The most universally used mehod of astrological prognostication, a 120-year planetary cycle based on the 'natural' life expectancy in kaliyuga and known as viMs'ottarIdas'A, allots a total of 25 years to the nodes. And of course, in temples where images of the planetary deities are installed, there are -- to my knowledge at least -- always nine of them (navagraha): the Sun, the Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, Rahu, and Ketu. I'm not sure if this answers your question about the 'significance' of the nodes, or if you had in mind their astrological connotations as well. (I suppose most of us on this list are in some sense governed by rAhu, who represents foreigners, barbarians, mlecchas -- although there may be a few ketu people out there, too: wise men, renunciates, mumukshus...) Martin Gansten mgansten at sbbs.se From gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk Fri Apr 19 21:57:02 1996 From: gkb at ast.cam.ac.uk (Girish Beeharry) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 22:57:02 +0100 Subject: Jyotishii Query Message-ID: <161227023959.23782.6098655157129738374.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, On Fri, 19 Apr 1996, Martin Gansten wrote: > I'm not sure if this answers your question about the 'significance' of the > nodes, or if you had in mind their astrological connotations as well. (I > suppose most of us on this list are in some sense governed by rAhu, who > represents foreigners, barbarians, mlecchas -- although there may be a few > ketu people out there, too: wise men, renunciates, mumukshus...) > rAhu and ketu not that bad; cf the navagrahastotram.h :- brahmamurArI tripurAnta kAri bhAnu shashi bhumisuto buddhascha | guruscha shukra shani rAhu ketava kuruvantu sarve mama suprbhAtam.h || (This is from memory and probably contains typos). Another interesting fact is that during the ketu antara of the rAhu mahaadasha, sattoguNa can actually influence a person. bye, Girish Beeharry From kappa-y at sh0.po.iijnet.or.jp Fri Apr 19 14:54:12 1996 From: kappa-y at sh0.po.iijnet.or.jp (Yasuhiro Okazaki) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 23:54:12 +0900 Subject: Query: materials for refutation of 'sabdanityatva Message-ID: <161227023955.23782.15643942153262263719.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Ms. Kellner I read your message In message <199604161736.CAA09007 at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp> writes: > I am looking for articles (or even books) on the Naiyaayikas' refutation of > the > Miimaa.msaa's doctrine of the eternality of sound ('sabdanityatva), > especially insofar as it is connected with ideas of anityatva as > praagabhaava/pradhva.msaabhaava. If the material that you are aware of is Nyaaya-Vaarttika ad NS 2-2-12, I am also intersted in that discussion. But I don't know the articles that mainly discussed about this material. But for the matter of fact, some articles and books slightly pointed out that discussion. For example, Prof. Thakur's "Uddyotakara as a VaizeSika" 1949 pointed out that praag-abhaava and pradvaMsa- abhaava is discussed in NV in the reference to ontology. And Randle's "Indian Logic in Early Schools" also pointed out in the reference to the category of non existence. They are brief notes and not useful for your study. Especially, the doctrine that non-eternal is praag-abhaava and pradvaMsa-abhaava is introduced as eke's doctrine. I wonder who states such a doctorine. If you will write new article about it, I am expecting your article. Yasuhiro Okazaki Yasuhiro Okazaki Chiyoda-High-School Arima 600-1, Chiyoda-cho, Yamagata-gun Hiroshima, JAPAN 731-15 Home: Arima 545, - do - Phone:+81-826-72-3121(Office) Phone & Fax:+81-826-72-8851(Home) E-mail:kappa-y at po.iijnet.or.jp khb12400 at niftyserve.or.jp From thompson at handel.jlc.net Sat Apr 20 06:27:02 1996 From: thompson at handel.jlc.net (thompson at handel.jlc.net) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 96 02:27:02 -0400 Subject: debates, grammar, & VAc Message-ID: <161227023966.23782.13003300985992557903.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Madhav Deshpande responded to my query re "debate, grammar, & Vedic" by pointing out that "the focus on debate [among grammarians] was more a focus on the logic built into any situation, rather than on language per se." To this extent, I suppose, they are logicians rather than grammarians. The point that concerns me, rather, is that interest in *language* links the grammarians not only with rhetoricians [kAvya] but also with Vedic RSis, conceding that the interest of each in language may have been somewhat different from the other's. I will defer to specialists in the grammarians and the rhetoricians concerning what the interest of these may have been, respectively. But for the Vedic RSis, in my view, interest in language was huge [think of the goddess VAc, majestic queen of the gods, followed by her retinue of utterly dependent gods - a Vedic metaphor, not mine], encompassing not only skill in debate and rhetoric, but also magical efficacy or performance, as well as metrical, grammatical and phonological analysis, lexical polysemy [the problem of metaphor, and puns, what we call folk etymology]. One of the more attractive features of current Vedic studies is the growing interest in, and recognition of, the poetic, oratorical [i.e., in debate], and linguistic skills of the Vedic RSis. I will admit, however, that they appear to have exhibited little interest in logic. From mgansten at sbbs.se Sat Apr 20 04:48:53 1996 From: mgansten at sbbs.se (mgansten at sbbs.se) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 96 06:48:53 +0200 Subject: Jyotishii Query Message-ID: <161227023964.23782.12730960579246869970.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Girish Beeharry wrote: >> What is the significance of the of the North and South nodes of the moon? >> >They are not 'real' grahas but upagrahas. raahu is related to the outside >world, egocentric behaviour, dealings with the public and is linked to what >one is supposed to achieve in the present life. ketu is related to the inside >world, spirituality, secrets and is linked to the karma of previous lives. I would be interested in seeing a textual reference for these significations, since I have never seen any classical text supporting the idea that rAhu and ketu are in any special way related to present and previous lives, respectively. To my knowledge, this is a modern, Western conception advocated by Martin Schulmann and others. The traditional Indian view is of course that the whole horoscope, not just the nodes, has everything to do with the effect of previous lives on the present: yad upacitam anyajanmani s'ubhAs'ubhaM tasya karmaNaH paktim vyaMjayati s'Astram etat tamasi dravyANi dIpa iva "The maturation of good and evil actions accumulated in another birth is illuminated by this science, like objects in the dark by a lamp." (varAhamihira) Incidentally, the nodes are not generally known as upagrahas but as chAyAgrahas (shadow planets). The five upagrahas mentioned in bR^ihatpArAs'arahorAs'Astra are dhUma, vyatIpAta, parivesha, cApa, and upaketu, all mathematically derived points. Apart from these, there are five kAlavelas (gulika etc). >Some people think that their influence is akin to mangala and shani. I think >ketu is linked to shani and raahu to mangala but I'm not sure. The traditional dictum goes: s'anivad rAhuH, kujavat ketuH: rAhu acts like Saturn, ketu acts like Mars. Martin Gansten mgansten at sbbs.se From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA Sat Apr 20 22:40:50 1996 From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 96 16:40:50 -0600 Subject: Wikner preprocessor Message-ID: <161227023968.23782.14626710109071953236.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I sent the c file of this preprocessor to our local c-compiler specialist and asked him if he could produce both a DOS and an OS/2 executable for me. He said he would as soon as he could. If you can wait . . . Best, Bob Hueckstedt //---------------------------------------------------------------------------- // Robert A. Hueckstedt, Asian Studies Centre // U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 // (204) 474-8964 // http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/asian_studies From jdunne at husc.harvard.edu Sun Apr 21 01:40:57 1996 From: jdunne at husc.harvard.edu (John Dunne) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 96 21:40:57 -0400 Subject: Email in Benares Message-ID: <161227023971.23782.13481753418683025658.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Central Institute of Higher Tibetan Studies in Sarnath has an e-mail account with IIT-Kanpur. It is possible for scholars associated with the institute to receive and send e-mail via that account. You might try contacting the director, Prof. Samdong Rinpoche, for details. (Please contact me for an e-mail address and further information). I conducted research in Benares for two separate years ('92 and '94-'95), but I never found a local account other than the one mentioned above. I heard rumors of some access at BHU and of a local firm that provides accounts, but these whisperings may have been just another addition to Banarsi mythology. Good luck. John Dunne Study of Religion Harvard University From jdunne at husc.harvard.edu Sun Apr 21 02:02:22 1996 From: jdunne at husc.harvard.edu (John Dunne) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 96 22:02:22 -0400 Subject: A Tibetan misunderstanding of Skt.? Message-ID: <161227023976.23782.9380953794163898417.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Jonathan Silk posted a query about the translation of *yujyate* as *rnal 'byor ma lags so*. It is hard to evaluate this translation without more context, but if the *ma* is construed as the feminine final syllyable of *rnal 'byor*, it seems best to assume that the manuscript of the suutra used by the Tibetan translators differs from the manuscripts (or edition) that you are reading. However, in some suutra passages, responses to questions asked by the Buddha replace the copula *yin* with *lags*, in which case the *ma* is not a feminine final syllable of *rnal 'byor* but a negative for the copula *lags* (this assumes an original *na yujyate*); I have seen this in other passages. As for *rnal 'byor*, some dim memory tells me that I have seen it used in some peculiar context to translate a conjugated form of *yuj* (probably *yujyate*), but frankly, I cannot remember where. Perhaps Jonathan could post the reference to the suutra he is reading -- it might jog my memory! John Dunne Study of Religion Harvard University From apsss at uohyd.ernet.in Sun Apr 21 12:15:17 1996 From: apsss at uohyd.ernet.in (apsss at uohyd.ernet.in) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 96 07:15:17 -0500 Subject: oriya instruction Message-ID: <161227023974.23782.10386978259308016521.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dr.Zydenbos: Is Dr. Kulke having an e-mail address at Kiel ? Thanks. -Dr. Parasher From gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de Sun Apr 21 06:44:20 1996 From: gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 96 08:44:20 +0200 Subject: oriya instruction Message-ID: <161227023978.23782.9921091137876973806.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Prof. Kulke does not have an email address here in Kiel, but I would be more than happy to give him any information for you, Dr. Parasher. You can send it to me at the following address: gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de and I can hand it over to his secretary. John Peterson, Kiel, Dept. of Indology From COHEN at rhodes.edu Mon Apr 22 12:40:16 1996 From: COHEN at rhodes.edu (COHEN at rhodes.edu) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 07:40:16 -0500 Subject: Seeking reviewers and books for review Message-ID: <161227023987.23782.6502444111594231398.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Recently I joined the _Critical Review of Books in Religion's _ staff as an assistant editor responsible for Buddhism and Comparative Religion. Anyone interested in reviewing books for the journal, and anyone desiring to suggest books in either of the above areas for review, should contact me at Cohen at rhodes.edu If you wish to review books for the CRBR, please supply an abbreviated c.v. detailing your degrees, most recent publications, and -- most importantly -- your areas of competence within the sub-fields of Buddhist studies and/or Comparative Religions. If you wish to suggest a book (or books) for either a short review or a review article within CRBR, please supply full bibliographic detail(s) and a brief abstract describing the work's audience, content, and import. Thanks in advance. Richard S. Cohen Cohen at rhodes.edu From dmenon at pacific.net.sg Mon Apr 22 01:59:27 1996 From: dmenon at pacific.net.sg (dmenon at pacific.net.sg) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 09:59:27 +0800 Subject: Music: form, tambura Message-ID: <161227023980.23782.2447869442307001691.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, On the subject of the drone, in the Temple music of Kerala, the 'Kurru Kuzhal' (something similar to the Shahnai {spelling?}) is used to give the drone. This is especially noticable in the performance called 'Kuzhal Pattu' esentially a musical dialog between the Kuzhal and 'Chenda'. The use of Kurru Kuzhal for the drone is at least a few centuries old. This is a very labourious task since the person producing the drone has to continously blow without a break for the 20+ minutes that takes to complete the Kuzhal Pattu. Needless to say there are only a few people alive who can still do it. Regards...Das At 12:51 PM 4/19/96 BST, you wrote: > 1. Is there any book/articles available which discuss this form or four > elements in Indian music? I havn't found any. > >If you are looking for general books, this may be useful > > Author: Nijenhuis, Emmie te. > Title: Indian music : history and structure > Published: Leiden : Brill, 1974. > > > 2. Is there any book/articles available that deals with the "drone"? > I havn't found any. > >B.C.Deva's article "The Emergence of the Drone in India music" >(Journal of the Music Academy, Madras, 1952) is about the only >extensive one I have seen on this subject. It is reprinted in >his book "The Music of India: A Scientific Study". > >This book also carries a reprint of his other article titled >"Tonal structure of the tambura" from the same journal (1956). > > 3. Contain "classical indian literature" any reference to the tambura? > >The first article cited above says that the specific drone >instrument, tambura, is not found in literary or pictorial >sources till the end of Middle Ages (?). > >Certainly, other instruments like the vINa, yAzh, flute, etc >were used as accompaniment to vocal music, and possibly served >as a sort of drone too. And there were other folk instruments >like the ek-tAr serving the same function. > >But, it is not till the 15th, 16th centuries that, due to various >dramatic changes, the tambura-style drone becomes indispensable. >Some of these changes are - music making based on a fixed tonic >rather than modally shifting the tonic, associating S permanently >with the tonic thus rendering it invariant and analogously the >fifth or P. > >-Srini. > > From COHEN at rhodes.edu Mon Apr 22 16:26:09 1996 From: COHEN at rhodes.edu (COHEN at rhodes.edu) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 11:26:09 -0500 Subject: Seeking reviewers and books for review Message-ID: <161227023995.23782.4061382439220437492.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Recently I joined the _Critical Review of Books in Religion's _ staff as an assistant editor responsible for Buddhism and Comparative Religion. Anyone interested in reviewing books for the journal, and anyone desiring to suggest books in either of the above areas for review, should contact me at Cohen at rhodes.edu If you wish to review books for the CRBR, please supply an abbreviated c.v. detailing your degrees, most recent publications, and -- most importantly -- your areas of competence within the sub-fields of Buddhist studies and/or Comparative Religions. If you wish to suggest a book (or books) for either a short review or a review article within CRBR, please supply full bibliographic detail(s) and a brief abstract describing the work's audience, content, and import. Thanks in advance. Richard S. Cohen Cohen at rhodes.edu Seeking reviewers and books for review From Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za Mon Apr 22 12:29:00 1996 From: Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za (Kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 12:29:00 +0000 Subject: Yaajna-Vraatya rituals --relation Message-ID: <161227023989.23782.6216807209070849315.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues: I am looking for recent discussions (if any) on the relationship between the two ritual traditions (yajna and vrata); their historical backgrounds, mutual influences; and also how they relate to the Aagama ritual tradition. If any one has suggestions, I will be most grateful. Pratap +----------------------------------------------------------------+ Dr. P. Kumar Department of Hindu Studies & Indian Philosophy University of Durban-Westville Private Bag X 54001 Durban 4000 South Africa Tel: 031-820-2194 Fax: 031-820-2160 Email: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Mon Apr 22 16:08:39 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 16:08:39 +0000 Subject: Wikner preprocessor Message-ID: <161227023993.23782.15463213522794057263.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Girish Sharma said: > > I have been trying to get setup to try the new Wikner Devanagari font > but my software tools are not up to compiling the preprocessor "skt.c". Please do write to Mr Wikner and tell him you need the executable. I tried to convince him to put one into his distribution, but he wanted to keep his zip file as small as possible. However, if he hears from some people who need the .exe, he may put one in a future distribution. Best wishes, Dominik From jonathan.silk at wmich.edu Mon Apr 22 21:04:09 1996 From: jonathan.silk at wmich.edu (jonathan.silk at wmich.edu) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 17:04:09 -0400 Subject: A Tibetan misunderstanding of Skt.? Message-ID: <161227023998.23782.11418620488436479697.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have not yet been able to check many editions of the Kanjur, but the passage which I refer to appears in sTog dkon brtsegs, ca 442a5-7, Peking zi 283a7-b1: bcom ldan 'das rnal 'byor spyod pa gang 'dod chags dang / zhe sdang dang / gti mug las gud du stong pa nyid tshol ba de ni rnal 'byor la mi spyod pa lags te / [P lags so //] rnal 'byor ma lags [P legs] pa'o // de ci'i slad du zhe na / bcom ldan 'das 'dod chags dang / zhe sdang dang / gti mug las gud du stong pa nyid btsal bar bgyi ba ma mchis te / bcom ldan 'das 'dod chags dang / zhe sdang dang / gti mug nyid stong pa lags so //. -- By the way, this is the Acintyabuddhavi"sayanirde"sa. I tentatively translate: "Blessed One, the yogaacaara who pursues emptiness separately from lust, hatred and delusion is one who does not practice (*Ccar) yoga. It is not fitting (?). Why? Blessed One, emptiness is not to be sought separately from lust, hatred and delusion. Blessed One, lust, hatred and delusion *are* emptiness." Chinese is found at T. 310 (35) (XI) 566c17-20. It reads: "Blessed One, if a practitioner (*yogaacaara) seeks emptiness separately from the defilements, then this is not appropriate (*na yujyate). How can there be emptiness distinct from the defilements? If one contemplates the defilements, just this (they?) is (ar e?) emptiness; and this is correct cultivation." There is little question about the Chinese expression "this is not appropriate"; it almost certainly renders *na yujyate. So, I think this must in one way or another be what is intended. What I wonder about is whether rnal 'byor, which is standard for yoga, is ever used for forms of yuj (By the way, the *Ccar above is supposed to be * plus root sign plus car). The ma in my expression must be a neagative; reading rnal 'byor ma is impossible. If o someone could come up with a parallel, that would be great. Jonathan From J.Napier at unsw.EDU.AU Mon Apr 22 07:21:14 1996 From: J.Napier at unsw.EDU.AU (J.Napier) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 17:21:14 +1000 Subject: Music: form, tambura Message-ID: <161227023983.23782.16999272963979760732.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Thu, 18 Apr 1996 09:25:54 BST, Jon Skarpeid writes: > >North Indian classic music consist on four elements, the drone, the melodi, >the second melodi and drums. > >1. Is there any book/articles available which discuss this form or four >elements in Indian music? I havn't found any. > >2. Is there any book/articles available that deals with the "drone"? > I havn't found any. > >3. Contain "classical indian literature" any reference to the tambura? > > >Jon Skarpeid Certainly, to the best of my knowledge, the drone is not mentioned before the dates given by several other respondents. In looking at the early musical treatises, the other three elements are there. However, it is often difficult to determine whether a passage refers to the secondary melody or the drums, since the same word vaadya is used to signify both the drums and the instruments that supply the secondary melody with which the voice is accompanied. On the subject of early references to drones, I recently read a reference in Chitrabhanu Sen's "Dictionary of Vedic Rituals" to the apagaatr: "a subordinate chanter, chorister; there are at least 4 upagaatr who say "ho" continuously in a low tone". Aside from the references given by Sen to the Laatyyaayana and Apastamba srautasutras, can anybody tell me a little more of this practice, or further sources for it. I am a student of modern Indian music, rather than a scholar of Sanskrit, so my efforts to decipher Sanskrit are rather tenuous. Thanks John Napier From LGoehler at aol.com Mon Apr 22 22:13:38 1996 From: LGoehler at aol.com (LGoehler at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 18:13:38 -0400 Subject: Query: materials for refutation of 'sabdanityatva Message-ID: <161227024000.23782.15304514972013235064.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Ms Kellner it may be possible that the discussion of ZabdanityatA was not continued at all after KumArila. Himself he considered the topic of utmost importance. But he made clear that the controversy was about different things: The :NaiyAyika's considered zabda as sound. But in :MImAMsA it meant quite a another thing. In that sense a refutation of zabdanityatA would hardly make any sense. A good representation of this is still Emil Abegg: Die Lehre von der Ewigkeit des Wortes bei Kumarila. In: Antidoron Festschrift fuer Jacob Wackernagel. Goettingen 1923 If you should come across later NyAya texts that discuss this I will be interested to get to know them viz. to read your article on that topic. Lars Goehler >?From indology-l at pwyz.rhein.de 23 1996 Apr +0100 00:40:00 Date: 23 Apr 1996 00:40:00 +0100 From: indology-l at pwyz.rhein.de (Peter Wyzlic) Subject: Re: Wikner preprocessor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: Peter at pwyz.rhein.de Hello ucgadkw, In your message: <9604221508.AA0123 at DJM3P9.wellcome.ac.uk> date: <22 Apr 96> You wrote on "Re: Wikner preprocessor": >Girish Sharma said: >> >> I have been trying to get setup to try the new Wikner Devanagari font >> but my software tools are not up to compiling the preprocessor "skt.c". > >Please do write to Mr Wikner and tell him you need the executable. I >tried to convince him to put one into his distribution, but he wanted to >keep his zip file as small as possible. However, if he hears from some >people who need the .exe, he may put one in a future distribution. But the compiled program searches the file "skt.opt" in the path you have to specify in the source code. This, however, may vary. So, in a precompiled version you have to work always in the directory where your *.skt files are located. Else the program "skt" will end in an error message longing for your input where to find skt.opt. The result may be that you have everywhere "skt.opt" files. The problem becomes even worse if you consider a DOS system in a network where you have to consider different disk drives. I think the program distribution with the source code is the best solution to face these problems. \bye Peter Wyzlic From ANDREWC at cc1.uca.edu Mon Apr 22 20:49:19 1996 From: ANDREWC at cc1.uca.edu (Andrew Cohen) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 20:49:19 +0000 Subject: Reconstructing South Indian History Message-ID: <161227024002.23782.1925823300066335580.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Prof. Filipsky, At your convenience, please confirm that my article arrived safely. I look forward to your comments. Regards Andrew Cohen From srice at bbs.cruzio.com Tue Apr 23 03:51:50 1996 From: srice at bbs.cruzio.com (Stanley Rice) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 20:51:50 -0700 Subject: Error Condition Re: Re: Seeking reviewers and books for review...book Message-ID: <161227024006.23782.16846054147726924486.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Suggestion for a review-- > This is an extraordinary new Gita. The review below is for a > general Hindu audience, but other reviews are obviously > desirable. The details are in the review. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>EXCERPT FROM A BOOK REVIEW ("Hinduism Today", October 1995) > > "This month we feature an extraordinary book, The Ribhu Gita, the > Upanishadic discourse of the guru, Sage Ribhu, to his disciple, > Nidagha. Its publication is a landmark achievement in the domain of > Hindu scripture, making a previously unaccessible and virtually > unknown, yet priceless and pure, Hindu teaching available to the > English-speaking world. Following the review is an interview with > Master Nome, the spirit behind this profound edition. > > THE RIBHU GITA, > [First English Translation from the Original Sanskrit Indian Epic > Sivarahasya. Translated by Dr. H. Ramamoorthy, assisted by Master > Nome. First edition 1995, hardbound, 432 pages, $25.00. Available > from Treasures of the Heart, 1834 Ocean Street, Santa Cruz, CA, 95060, > USA. Phone: (408) 458-9654 (US only), e-mail: ramana at cruzio.com] > > How rare! How precious! How utterly lofty! How far beyond the everyday > consciousness of humanity, yet how close to our most intimate > yearnings! Thanks to the recent publication by the Society of Abidance > in Truth, SAT, the Saivas now have their Gita, too--the Ribhu Gita, an > apparently "ancient text" which, like the other Gita, is an extract > from a much longer epic, in this case the Sivarahasya. > > The interesting thing about this Gita is its unswerving focus upon one > teaching only, that of the Self, or Self-God. "Tat Tvam Asi," "You are > That." This lofty knowing permeates virtually all Hindu teaching, but > we know of no other text where it is focused upon so exclusively or > exposed at such length. In all, some 2,200 sutras are dedicated to > this ultimate of truths." > > .. (And so on...rare it is) -- Stan Rice, Autospec Inc, srice at cruzio.com From ANDREWC at cc1.uca.edu Mon Apr 22 20:52:28 1996 From: ANDREWC at cc1.uca.edu (Andrew Cohen) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 20:52:28 +0000 Subject: Reconstructing South Indian History Message-ID: <161227024004.23782.10005810103056985480.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> My apologies. please forgive me, I made the mistake of sending a personal note to the indology addresss. I'm very sorry, Andrew From pbilmo at deakin.edu.au Mon Apr 22 11:56:26 1996 From: pbilmo at deakin.edu.au (purushottama bilimoria) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 21:56:26 +1000 Subject: Query: materials for refutation of 'sabdanityatva Message-ID: <161227023985.23782.5105219951325039719.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have discussed this and surveyed some literature on this (taking cues from Chemparathy's work on Udayana) in my book on Sabdapraman nd more in three or four papers which you will find listed in Philosophers' Index. One related paper came out recently in the Nagoya Studies in Indian Philosophy and Buddhism. (Which canvasses Nyaya-like Western critiques.) Hope it helps. Let me have your references too. On Fri, 19 Apr 1996, Yasuhiro Okazaki wrote: > Ms. Kellner > I read your message > In message <199604161736.CAA09007 at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp> writes: > > I am looking for articles (or even books) on the Naiyaayikas' refutation of > > the > > Miimaa.msaa's doctrine of the eternality of sound ('sabdanityatva), > > especially insofar as it is connected with ideas of anityatva as > > praagabhaava/pradhva.msaabhaava. > > If the material that you are aware of is Nyaaya-Vaarttika ad NS 2-2-12, > I am also intersted in that discussion. But I don't know the articles that > mainly discussed about this material. But for the matter of fact, some articles > and books slightly pointed out that discussion. For example, Prof. Thakur's > "Uddyotakara as a VaizeSika" 1949 pointed out that praag-abhaava and pradvaMsa- > abhaava is discussed in NV in the reference to ontology. And Randle's "Indian > Logic in Early Schools" also pointed out in the reference to the category of non > existence. They are brief notes and not useful for your study. > Especially, the doctrine that non-eternal is praag-abhaava and pradvaMsa-abhaava > is introduced as eke's doctrine. I wonder who states such a doctorine. > If you will write new article about it, I am expecting your article. > > Yasuhiro Okazaki > > > Yasuhiro Okazaki > Chiyoda-High-School > Arima 600-1, Chiyoda-cho, Yamagata-gun > Hiroshima, JAPAN 731-15 > Home: Arima 545, - do - > Phone:+81-826-72-3121(Office) > Phone & Fax:+81-826-72-8851(Home) > E-mail:kappa-y at po.iijnet.or.jp > khb12400 at niftyserve.or.jp > > From vidya at cco.caltech.edu Mon Apr 22 15:04:48 1996 From: vidya at cco.caltech.edu (vidya at cco.caltech.edu) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 23:04:48 +0800 Subject: Error Condition Re: Re: Seeking reviewers and books for review...book Message-ID: <161227024008.23782.8215380324706305126.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > How rare! How precious! How utterly lofty! How far beyond the everyday > consciousness of humanity, yet how close to our most intimate > yearnings! Thanks to the recent publication by the Society of Abidance > in Truth, SAT, the Saivas now have their Gita, too--the Ribhu Gita, an > apparently "ancient text" which, like the other Gita, is an extract > from a much longer epic, in this case the Sivarahasya. With all due respect, I must beg to differ with some of these statements. The Ribhu Gita is indeed a very highly advanced work of advaita, but my disagreements are over other issues. 1. Saivas already had the Siva Gita, which is very highly valued in Veerasaiva circles. There are many commentaries to this Siva Gita, including ones by Appayya Dikshita and Sri Narasimha Bharati. 2. The Ribhu Gita is indeed an ancient dialogue. A dialogue between Ribhu and his disciple, Nidagha, occurs in quite a few Puranas, including the Vishnu Purana. But the Siva Rahasya is not an "ancient" epic. It has references to many "modern" personalities, including Sankaracharya, Haradattacharya and Appayya Dikshita. I see no reason why the Ribhu Gita must be described as an extract from an epic "Siva Rahasya". Obviously this is to parallel the Bhagavad Gita, an extract from the ancient epic, the Mahabharata. It would be perfectly fitting to describe the Ribhu Gita as from a purANa, thus aligning the text with the "canonical" itihAsa-purANa category. Unless, of course, the idea is to promote the Siva Rahasya as an epic that is equivalent to the Mahabharata. But then we do have the Tamil Periapuranam, don't we, on which the Siva Rahasya is obviously based? Just because the Siva Rahasya is in Sanskrit does not mean that it is any more valuable than the Periapuranam. 3. Finally, it is not as if the Bhagavad-Gita is so Vaishnava that Saivas need a Gita of their own. Is it being forgotten that Abhinavagupta, that famous leader of Kashmir Saivism wrote the Gitarthasangraha on the Bhagavad Gita? I would appreciate more comments by the real Indologists here. Regards, S. Vidyasankar From jhughes at macmagic.com Tue Apr 23 08:01:34 1996 From: jhughes at macmagic.com (John Hughes) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 96 01:01:34 -0700 Subject: Summer Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227024010.23782.10189881930162624798.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am looking for an intensive summer Sanskrit course taking place anywhere in the United States or India. By intensive I mean that this course should meet four days a weeks three plus hours at a time. Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. John Hughes jhughes at macmagic.com From kellner at ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp Tue Apr 23 12:41:51 1996 From: kellner at ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (Birgit Kellner) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 96 21:41:51 +0900 Subject: Query: materials for refutation of 'sabdanityatva Message-ID: <161227024012.23782.15856319851680342900.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> First, I would like to thank all those who responded to my query on 'sabdanityatva. I will just add a few remarks, before I plunge back into the silence of scratching my head over heaps of texts. I started to investigate the subject because it provides the background for a very short, nevertheless intricately complicated text by J~naana'sriimitra, which I am currently trying to edit and translate - the Sarva'sabdabhaavacarcaa. It seems that some Naiyaayikas argued on epistemological grounds that one can perceive the absence of sound, on grounds of its non-cognition (anupalabdhi). Therefore, sound must be non-eternal. In this context, they tried to apply notions which were developed (or at least ALSO developed) in Buddhist pramaa.na-texts, viz. Dharmakiirti's own theory of non-cognition and probably even more so Dharmottara's interpretation: Non-cognition proves an object's non-existence if (1) another object is cognized as existence, (2) both objects are included in the same causal complex for their perception (> they are perceptible through the same sense-faculty). This does not only restrict the range of negatable objects to perceptible objects in general, but, even more, to those objects which are perceptible IN THE SAME WAY than the one currently perceived. One of the reasons for this rather curious (at least in my opinion) restriction was that otherwise, the integrity of the sense-faculties could not be guaranteed. If one wants to negate an object by its non-perception, one has to exclude obstructing factors (damaged sense-faculties, insufficient light etc.). In order to guarantee that, for example, one's eyes are intact, one refers to another, simultaneous perception. Because I see a spot on the ground, I know that my eyes and all other conditions are O.K. Because I know that a spot on the ground and a pot possess the same conditions for their perception, and because I perceive the bare spot, I can infer the non-existence of the pot. (J~naana'srii doesn' like this interpretation at all, by the way) On the other hand, if I perceive a bare spot, I cannot infer the non-existence of sound, because visual perception does not tell me whether my ears are blocked or not. Apparently, however, some (presumably) Nyaaya-authors tried to argue along these lines, i.e. they tried to negate sound on the grounds of a different sense-perception. Others (e.g. Udayana in the Nyaayakusuma~jjalii) argued that this is not possible, precisely because the spot on the ground is visible, but sound is audible. Implicitly, this means that one can only negate sound because one perceives another sound. The prima facie interesting point with reference to the Miimaa.msaa lies in what I would call a microcosmic clash of two macrocosmic conceptions of existence, which have different implications for the argumentative force of non-cognition: (1) Schools which adhere to a latent notion of existence, i.e. existence as an unmanifested state, use non-cognition in order to argue "despite x is not cognized, it nevertheless exists". This is brought out very nicely in the old lists of the causes for non-cognition (Carakasa.mhitaa etc.), where non-cognition of existent objects is explained by their being too far away, too subtle etc. (1) Schools which advocate a more "modular" (!), maybe analytical (for lack of a better word) notion of existence use non-cognition in order to argue "because x is cognized, it does NOT exist". This is the argument which, for example, Pak.silasvaamin uses against the Miimaa.msaa in the context of 'sabdanityatvaniraasa. I personally find the debate on the eternality of sound interesting, precisely because it involves these different paradigms of existence, because it gives rise to quite twisted arguments, because it brings out a number of ontological subtleties and because it could very well be more enlightening in terms of arguments on non-existence/non-cognition than the "standard"-passages on pots & spots in the usual plethora of texts. From bhagavam at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Wed Apr 24 14:45:21 1996 From: bhagavam at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (manu bhagavan) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 09:45:21 -0500 Subject: SAGAR V.2, N.2 Message-ID: <161227024019.23782.9123916141647298297.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The email and OnLine editions of SAGAR: South Asia Graduate Research Journal have just been released. The issue includes the following: REPRESENTATION OF THE PAST IN THE 20THc. HISTORIOGRAPHY OF HINDUSTANI MUSIC Eriko Kobayashi, The University of Texas at Austin MASALA IN THE MELTING POT: HISTORY, IDENTITY, AND THE INDIAN DIASPORA Savita Nair, The University of Pennsylvania COMBATTING COLONIALISM: THE URDU RESISTANCE POETRY OF MUHAMMAD IQBAL AND AKBAR ALLAHABADI Syed Akbar Hyder, Harvard University BOOK REVIEW: _IDEOLOGIES OF THE RAJ_ by Thomas R. Metcalf Chandar S. Sundaram, McGill University GRADUATE STUDENT PROFILES For more information on SAGAR, please contact the editors at: sagrj at uts.cc.utexas.edu From treich at midway.uchicago.edu Wed Apr 24 15:26:01 1996 From: treich at midway.uchicago.edu (treich at midway.uchicago.edu) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 10:26:01 -0500 Subject: Q: Uttanka Message-ID: <161227024021.23782.10740705169708102280.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indology Members, Can anyone help me to find references in pre-epic literature to the Bhaargava sage Uttanka (whose story is recounted in the Aadi Parvan and in the Aashvamedhika Parvans of the Mahaabhaarata?) Thanks, Tamar Reich From J.Napier at unsw.EDU.AU Wed Apr 24 01:18:57 1996 From: J.Napier at unsw.EDU.AU (J.Napier) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 11:18:57 +1000 Subject: Music: form, tambura Message-ID: <161227024014.23782.5669728933971308138.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >On Thu, 18 Apr 1996 09:25:54 BST, > Jon Skarpeid writes: > >> >>North Indian classic music consist on four elements, the drone, the melodi, >>the second melodi and drums. >> >>1. Is there any book/articles available which discuss this form or four >>elements in Indian music? I havn't found any. >> >>2. Is there any book/articles available that deals with the "drone"? >> I havn't found any. >> >>3. Contain "classical indian literature" any reference to the tambura? >> >> >>Jon Skarpeid > My apologies if this message is "late", and if it has already appeared. I have been having difficulty in sending messages to this address. To the best of my knowledge, the drone is not mentioned before the dates given by several other respondents. In looking at the early musical treatises, the other three elements are there. However, it is often difficult to determine whether a passage refers to the secondary melody or the drums, since the same word vaadya is used to signify both the drums and the instruments that supply the secondary melody with which the voice is accompanied. On the subject of early references to drones, I recently read a reference in Chitrabhanu Sen's "Dictionary of Vedic Rituals" to the upagaatr: "a subordinate chanter, chorister; there are at least 4 upagaatr who say "ho" continuously in a low tone". Aside from the references given by Sen to the Laatyyaayana and Apastamba srautasutras, can anybody tell me a little more of this practice, or further sources for it. I am a student of modern Indian music, rather than a scholar of Sanskrit, so my efforts to decipher Sanskrit are rather tenuous. Thanks John Napier From TMCQ at vax1.miu.edu Wed Apr 24 18:56:26 1996 From: TMCQ at vax1.miu.edu (TMCQ at vax1.miu.edu) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 13:56:26 -0500 Subject: Reference Books on Sanskrit Linguistics and/or phonology Message-ID: <161227024025.23782.1491742851442808421.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am currently involved in a research project investigating the mouth and tongue positions while pronouncing correctly the different vowels and consonants, in particular for each varga i.e. kantya, talavya, murdhanya, etc. and aspirated, unaspirated, and nasals. Does anyone know of books on Linguistics or Phonology (or any related subject) which provide studies and digrams. Thanks in advance for your help. Tina McQuiston TMCQ at miu.edu From TMCQ at vax1.miu.edu Wed Apr 24 18:59:27 1996 From: TMCQ at vax1.miu.edu (TMCQ at vax1.miu.edu) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 13:59:27 -0500 Subject: Conferences in U.S.A. Message-ID: <161227024023.23782.17768431362926396504.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone have a good method for finding conferences on Sanskrit in U.S.? In particular, I am interested in conferences for '96 and '97. Tina McQuiston TMCQ at miu.edu From b9100530 at student.anu.edu.au Wed Apr 24 04:21:05 1996 From: b9100530 at student.anu.edu.au (b9100530 at student.anu.edu.au) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 14:21:05 +1000 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227024017.23782.17703399678771655117.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, There was a posting on this forum earlier this year about a Sanskrit Conference to be held in Northern Europe in August of this year. Unfortunately I lost all the details about it. Could someone send me a copy of that posting or at least the e-mail address of the conveners. merci d'avance Adrian Burton ANU From kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu Wed Apr 24 19:30:46 1996 From: kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu (Kamal Adhikary) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 14:30:46 -0500 Subject: Seminar abstract Message-ID: <161227024027.23782.2278860525393383406.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues: As a part of South Asia Seminar at the Center for Asian Studies at UT Austin , Texas, Prof. Cynthia Talbot had given a talk on "History, Ethnicity and Identity: Who is Indian?" Here is the abstract of the talk: History, Ethnicity and Identity: Who is Indian? Cynthia Talbot In this paper I focus on two aspects of premodern Indian historiography -- the nature of the medieval Hindu-Muslim encounter and the question of Indian civilization's protohistoric begininngs -- that are in dire need of reconsideration, both because existing scholarly constructions are inadequate and because alternative interpretations inspired by Hindu nationalist or Hindutva perspectives are being vigorously propagated. The Hindutva rewriting of history is driven by the desire to recast the question "who is Indian?" in such a manner that the answer will inevitably be "Hindu." As with other attempts to formulate national, ethnic, and/or community identities, the revisionist Hindutva historiography accentuates the boundaries that separate the group from its Others while at the same time stressing the primordial unity of the group itself. Hence, the main thrust of the Hindutva historiography on medieval India is the exclusion of Muslims, who are represented as an implacably hostile and foreign element in the Indian body politic. On the other hand, the Hindutva claim that the Harappan urban civilization was Aryan in character asserts the continuity of Indian society and the common origins of all non-Muslim Indians. In both instances, Hindu nationalist scholars are utilizing simplistic constructions of community identity inherited from Orientalist scholarship of the colonial period. Rather than summarily dismissing the revisionist historiography, therefore, I urge professional historians to seize this opportunity to reassess the premises of the standard historiography. We need studies of specific time periods, regions, and genres of literature from the medieval era in order to trace the geneaology of modern constructs of the Hindu and Muslim. Whether these distinctions were actually meaningful or of primary importance in medieval India is a question that urgently requires investigation. Similarly, archaeological research increasingly calls into question our earlier models of the Aryan migration into India. With little evidence of any foreign intrusion in the material record, we must reformulate our conceptions of how Indo-Aryan languages came to be dominant. While the contemporary agenda of Hindutva revisionism makes its version of Indian history suspect, it does expose the weaknesses of previous accounts. Hence, scholars working on premodern India must rise to this challenge by re-examining the basic assumptions in the field and offering more sophisticated interpretations of the Indian past. **** You can find the above abstract at: http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/subject/CynthiaTalbotWhoisIndian.html Thanks. kamal _______________ Kamal R. Adhikary, Ph.D. Internet Coordinator, Asian Studies UT, Austin, Texas 78712 Tel:512-475-6034 Email:kamal at asnic.utexas.edu From sghosh1 at PO-Box.McGill.CA Wed Apr 24 20:10:10 1996 From: sghosh1 at PO-Box.McGill.CA (sghosh1 at PO-Box.McGill.CA) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 15:10:10 -0500 Subject: A pastiche of questions on Dravidiana Message-ID: <161227024030.23782.6173526748964706762.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indology members, I have four question with which I hope you could assist me: 1) Could anyone reccommend recent articles or books on the life and teachings of the Tamil Saivite saint Arunagirinath? More specifically I am looking for any commentaries etc. on his Kandar Anubhuti ( I am presently working from the translation and commentary by Karthikeyan). 2)I am looking for any references in Saiva siddhanta on the relationship of the jivanmukta to God _after_ the soul's departure from the body. I have come across many verses on the relationship of the embodied liberated soul to Siva but have yet to locate anything on their afterdeath relationship. Could anyone point me in the direction of helpful references or better yet- provide me an answer...? 3)Could someone pls give me the names of scholarly books or articles available on the Lakshmi Tantra apart from the Sanjukta Gupta's? I am particularly interested in any text which could shed light on how the goddess Lakshmi defines herself and her relationship to Visnu. 4) Could someone suggest contemporary works on the sociological and historical significance of the Tirukkural?(I must confess that my knowledge of this text is very scant). Any sugestions or thoughts on this somewhat scattered list of queries would be most appreciated. Looking forward to you replies and thanking you in advance, Sujata Ghosh From pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu Thu Apr 25 02:20:56 1996 From: pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu (pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 19:20:56 -0700 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227024039.23782.11859691300732537637.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> New Message Date: April 24, 1996 Indology List indology at Liverpool.ac.uk Dear Members In a recent communication on the List we were provided with an abstract of Cythia Talbot's paper, "History, Ethnicity and Identity: Who is Indian?" in which the statement is made, "The Hindutva rewriting of history is driven by the desire to recast the question 'who is Indian?' in such a manner that the answer will inevitably be 'Hindu.' I have often heard replies by educated Hindus to the question "who is Hindu?" an answer that could be summarized "Indians". The answer might be given with regard to doubt about such categories as Westerners who claim to be Hindu ("such people are not REALLY Hindu"). It is also often given with regard to "tribals" and folk religous practices which are so ambiguous (and so wide-spread in the world) as to raise the question ("that stone, that diety, etc. is an incarnation of Siva.") But there is another situation where Indian Muslims are regarded as REALLY Hindus, BECAUSE they're Indian and their Islamic faith and practice is just an overlay, deep down inside, there is no difference between Indian Muslims and Hindus.... Now it seems to me that this is an equally meaningful co-option of a person, a community, an expression of belief, etc. and worthy of the kind of urgent investigation that Ms. Talbot calls for. "... scholars ... must rise to this challenge by re-examining the basic assumptions in the field and offering more sophisticated interpretations of the Indian past." Peter J. Claus fax: (510) 885-3353 pclaus at csuhayward.edu From biernack at ccat.sas.upenn.edu Wed Apr 24 23:26:04 1996 From: biernack at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Loriliai Biernacki) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 19:26:04 -0400 Subject: Email in Benares Message-ID: <161227024032.23782.4937094367981319645.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Just a thanks for all the information I received on getting an email account in Benares. Loriliai Biernacki University of Pennsylvania From pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu Wed Apr 24 23:52:49 1996 From: pgaeffke at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Peter Gaeffke) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 19:52:49 -0400 Subject: Reference Books on Sanskrit Linguistics and/or phonology Message-ID: <161227024034.23782.6062803364627419980.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Although not for Sanskrit but there are nice diagrams in Baburam Saksena's Evolution of Awadhi, Allahabad 1937 Peter Gaeffke From gthursby at religion.ufl.edu Thu Apr 25 01:21:55 1996 From: gthursby at religion.ufl.edu (gthursby at religion.ufl.edu) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 21:21:55 -0400 Subject: Translating Message-ID: <161227024037.23782.15458811225356678533.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Walter Kaufmann's contentious statement in his introduction to Leo Baeck's _Judaism and Christianity_ (Philadelphia: The Jewish Publication Society of America, 1958, pp.10-11) may be of passing interest: "In Germany, translating is respected as one of the fine arts, and the best German poets have added to the rich store of fine translations -- from Goethe and Ho["]lderlin to Stefan George and Rilke. In the United States, a translator is widely considered a writer manque who, unable to write anything worthwhile himself, uses the content furnished by a foreign writer and imposes on it -- not his own style which, alas, he lacks, but rather what his publisher considers currently acceptable English. Where Schlegel's translation of Shakespeare, and Voss's of Homer, are more or less definitive and need not be brought up to date any more than the originals, it is a common axiom in the English-speaking world -- and follows from what has been said -- that every generation must in turn make new translations of the same texts -- assuming that public interest has survived the initial mutilation, which rarely happens." `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Gene R. Thursby, Department of Religion, University of Florida P.O. Box 117410, 125 Dauer Hall, Gainesville, FL 32611-7410 USA (Phone)352-373-3042 (Fax)352-392-7395 From deepak at ksu.ksu.edu Thu Apr 25 03:13:22 1996 From: deepak at ksu.ksu.edu (Deepak Gupta) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 22:13:22 -0500 Subject: Traditional Indian Architecture Message-ID: <161227024041.23782.1402297062298346611.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello everybody in the group, It is great pleasure to join a group that brings under one roof so many serious scholars devoted to study of Indology and related fields from around the world. I am trying to relate to the current discussion, probably it is going to take a while before I get really involved. Meanwhile, I would like to introduce my current research work, and invite anybody for a meaningful exchange on the subject. As a part of my master's thesis in architecture, I am studying ancient architectural tradition in India. I am sure many of you will be aware of Vastu Purusha Mandala and other architectural concepts in the Indian tradition. As an architect my primary aim is to appropriate these principles into practice, which is probably a life time project. To begin with, the current work is a pilot study that explicates basic premises of the hoary tradition, and identifies areas for future research that might lead to such an appropriation.The abstract below will further clarify the structure of the work. Presently, I am defining terms such as `sacred',`metaphysics',`ritual',`space',`time', others. analysing the principles. As it is apparent that these terms can have various meanings in varied contexts which is more true in case of Indian tradition and its philosophical constructs. Mainly I am drawing on Coomarswamy, Joseph Campbell, H Zimmer, and Eliade for the purpose. I will welcome any suggestions in this regard and other aspects of the study. Here is the abstract. Title: SACRED ARCHITECTURE : An Exploration of Indian Traditional Principles Abstract The ancient Indian architectural treatises are among the rare texts that prescribe in detail various aspects of architectural design such as geometry proportions and orientation. Clearly delineated canons dominate the text without any explanations for their prescriptions. This often leads to their rejection as `myth', causing them to fall under the label of the unexplainable and illogical. It must be understood, however, that all these prescribed physical entities have metaphysical origins that are not readily evident. Moreover, Indian studies of the ancient texts, while accepting their metaphysical premises, have generally adopted a historical viewpoint in their approach. Therefore, even the most detailed inquiries have largely been unable to generate any significant appropriation of the esoteric knowledge that might be useful for architectural design in the present. The proposed study will attempt to explicate the hidden relationship between the physical and metaphysical aspects of architectural design within the framework of traditional Indian architecture. The main purpose underlying this proposal is to conduct a comprehensive study of Indian architectural principles and document available sources on related topics. Such an analytical exercise will begin with a theoretical exploration into concepts such as `space', `time' and `sacredness' as defined in Indian thought and philosophy, resulting in the delineation of concepts and terms that are germane to any discourse on metaphysical aspects of design. The next step will be a study of traditional Indian architecture, within the earlier developed conceptual framework. A comprehensive survey of the application of vastu principles (fundamental principle in traditional Indian architecture) in town planning, housing and residential design as well as religious, institutional and commercial buildings, will be conducted. Finally, a summary of the previous stages of research will form the foundation for a consideration of how traditional principles might inform the contemporary design. D E E P A K G U P T A -------------------------------------------------------------- 1222 Bluemont Ave. #2 S 169 Seaton Hall Manhattan,KS 66502 Kansas State University, 913 565 0274 913 532 0659 email:deepak at ksu.ksu.edu net:http://www.ksu.edu/~deepak -------------------------------------------------------------- Remembrance is a kind of meeting, Forgetfulness is a kind of freedom From Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz Thu Apr 25 07:24:17 1996 From: Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz (Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 96 09:24:17 +0200 Subject: Reference Books on Sanskrit... Message-ID: <161227024044.23782.16035241530129976190.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> According to TMCQ at vax1.miu.edu: > > Does anyone know of books on > Linguistics or Phonology (or any related subject) which provide studies and > digrams. Thanks in advance for your help. > Tina McQuiston > TMCQ at miu.edu > There is an article (about 30 pages, in English) in Archiv Orientalni (1955) by K. Zvelebil and J. Svarny (a Dravidologue and a phonetician) on articulation of the so-called cerebral consonants in Indian languages, supplemented by many linguograms, palatograms and roentgenograms (also about 30 pages). -- |-------------------------------|-----------------------------| | Mr. Jan Dvorak, M.A. | | | Institute of Indian Studies | Home address: | | Charles University | | | Celetna 20 | Vodojemska 553 | | 110 00 Praha 1 | 190 14 Praha 9 - Klanovice | | Czech Republic | Czech Republic | | |-----------------------------| | | | phone: ##42-2-24491403 | | E-mail: dvorakj at dec59.ruk.cuni.cz | |-------------------------------------------------------------| From rdsaran at umich.edu Thu Apr 25 15:45:26 1996 From: rdsaran at umich.edu (Richard D. Saran) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 96 11:45:26 -0400 Subject: Books by Ramakarana Asopa Message-ID: <161227024052.23782.16468750727814344533.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone know of any libraries holding the following two Hindi books by Ramakarana Asopa? 1. nimbaja kA itihAsa / nImbaja kA itihAsa. 2. Asopa kA itihAsa. I would appreciate any information about these works. RD Saran From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Thu Apr 25 12:17:02 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 96 12:17:02 +0000 Subject: Reference Books on Sanskrit Linguistics and/or phonology Message-ID: <161227024046.23782.2985614381520585717.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> TMCQ at vax1.miu.edu said: > > I am currently involved in a research project investigating the mouth and > tongue positions while pronouncing correctly the different vowels and > consonants, in particular for each varga i.e. kantya, talavya, murdhanya, etc. > and aspirated, unaspirated, and nasals. Does anyone know of books on > Linguistics or Phonology (or any related subject) which provide studies and > digrams. Thanks in advance for your help. W. Sidney Allen, _Phonetics in Ancient India_ (London: OUP, 1953, reprinted 1963) is a classic study. His _Vox Latina_ and _Vox Graecae_ provide similar materials for those languages, but of course because of the rich indigenous tradition of phonetics in India, the PIAI book is special. Dominik From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Thu Apr 25 12:24:02 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 96 12:24:02 +0000 Subject: International Journal of Hindu Studies (fwd) Message-ID: <161227024048.23782.9317332530450574224.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sushil Mittal has asked me to forward this information about the interesting new _International Journal of Hindu Studies_ to INDOLOGY: Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 20:23:23 -0400 (EDT) > From: Mittal Sushil > Subject: International Journal of Hindu Studies > To: Dominik Wujastyk > > > Dear Dominik, > > Greetings. You will recall our correspondence some time ago regarding the > launching of a new journal entitled, Studies>. I am very pleased to say that the arrangements for the > publication of the journal are now in place, with the first issue to > appear in January 1997. We have already backloged over 30 research > essays. > > I WILL BE GRATEFUL IF YOU COULD SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE JOURNAL and > encourage colleagues whose work you value to send material to us for > consideration. I append below the prospectus of the journal. [...] > With very cordial regards, Sushil. > > > Sushil Mittal > International Institute of India Studies > 1270 St-Jean > St-Hyacinthe > Quebec > Canada J2S 8M2 > > Tel. (514) 771 0213 > Fax (514) 771 2776 > Email mittals at ere.umontreal.ca > > > > > -------------------INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF HINDU STUDIES------------------- > > > Recent years have witnessed a considerable growth in academic articles in > the field of Hindu Studies. At present these contributions to knowledge > remain fragmented and appear in a wide range of academic journals. The > International Institute of India Studies (Canada) has therefore launched a > new journal, , with the aim to > provide an interdisciplinary and international focal point for such work. > > is primarily a forum for the > presentation of research studies on Hindu societies and cultures and for > the discussion of different approaches to their study. > > > COVERAGE > > Research essays from such diverse fields as anthropology, art, cultural > studies, economics, geography, history, literature, law, musicology, > philosophy, politics, psychology, religion, sciences, sociology, and so > forth are welcomed. > > welcomes submissions of an interdisciplinary nature. > especially encourages essays that consider Hinduism > theoretically in a comparative and analytic terms, direct itself to what > Hinduism did, what its comparative peculiarities were, what were the > historical and ecologial causes of those peculiarities, how did they > effect processes of historical change and stability, what were its effects > on actors, etc--all as illuminated by comparison with other "religions" > and situations--rather than limiting itself to South Asian historical and > philological studies, for that would make it more interesting to > non-Indologists and more relevant to contemporary thought. 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Advertising is limited to material of > scholarly interest to our readers. > > _______________________________________________ > > OF RELATED INTEREST: > > World Heritage Press has launched three new book series featuring > Indological research and writing: > > --"World Heritage Hindu Studies", edited by Gerald James Larson (Indiana > University) > > --"World Heritage Studies in Ethical and Political Dilemmas of Modern > India", edited by Ninian Smart (University of California, Berkeley) and > Shivesh Thakur (University of Northern Iowa). > > --"World Heritage Studies in India Social and Cultural Anthropology", > edited by Lina M Fruzzetti (Brown University) and Akos Ostor (Wesleyan > University) > > For more information contact the Press staff or the series editors. > > ______________________________________________________________ > From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca Thu Apr 25 20:24:08 1996 From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 96 13:24:08 -0700 Subject: kaarikaa Message-ID: <161227024079.23782.17325899779926595872.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Some aspects of Steven E. Lindquist's inquiry of 18 Apr have been adequately addressed by the responses of Prof. Cardona and others. The appellation kaarikaa does not ever seem to have been used to speak of a verse intended to be poetic. The proper domain for its use, as far as I know, is ;saastra vaa:nmaya, as distinct from kaavya vaa:nmaya. A Sanskrit poet would in all likelihood be offended if his verses were referred to as kaarikaas. This does not mean that the kaarikaas cannot occasionally be very charming as they are, for example, in Bhaskaraacaarya's mathematical works. The kaarikaas appear predominantly in the ;sloka/anu.s.tubh and aaryaa metres. Employment of the former is far more frequent than of the latter and is undoubtedly older, probably by several centuries. In the earlier ;saastra works, one almost invariably finds ;sloka employed for those compositions for which one may later use kaarikaa. The word kaarikaa as used in the context under consideration could be a shorter form of something like smara.na-kaarikaa, saara-kaarikaa, sa.mk.sepa-kaarikaa, bodha-kaarikaa. If anyone has come across early occurrences which throw light on what the kaarikaa was thought to be a 'maker, fashioner' of, I would be grateful to learn about them. Initially, one would expect a noun to be understood with kaarikaa or sm.rti-/smara.na-kaarikaa etc. What could that feminine noun have been? k.rti (in the sense of 'composition')? pa:nkti? .tiikaa/vyaakhyaa/v.rtti etc.? padyaavali? ;sabdaavali? The title Gau.da-paada kaarikaa must have come into existence at a date later than the title Aagama-;saastra. Mr. Lindquist wrote: < I am unaware of any other kaarikaa being self-consciously written on another type of root text (.sruti, no less) which is also in verse (meaning that they are often the object of commentaries, rather than a sort of verse-form 'commentarial rewrite' in themselves).< This is not as rare a phenomenon as it might seem. Sure;svara wrote kaarikaas on important sections of ; a.mkara's bhaa;syas on the B.rhadaara.nyaka and Taittiriiya Upani;sads. There are also works commenting on the Nirukta and the A.s.taadhyaayii or their v.rttis in verse form. Early vaartttikas seem to consist of what we would now call kaarikaas. ashok aklujkar Professor, Dept. of Asian Studies, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2 ashok aklujkar Professor, Dept. of Asian Studies, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2 From girish at mushika.wanet.com Thu Apr 25 21:57:25 1996 From: girish at mushika.wanet.com (girish at mushika.wanet.com) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 96 14:57:25 -0700 Subject: Shabara Bhasyam of Mimansa Darshanam Message-ID: <161227024081.23782.8703943472472710063.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have been trying to purchase a copy of the following book: >'SAbara-bhASya >Translated into English by Ganganatha JHA, in three volumes >Gaekwad's Oriental Series N 66,70,73 (1933) >Reprint : Oriental Institute Baroda,1973 I have checked with dealers in the US and with the Indian Book Center in Delhi, but all say it is out of print and unavailable. Does anyone have any further suggestions for obtaining this book? I am also interested in finding someone to help me a bit with the grammar of the original Sanskrit of the bhasyam. Could someone recommend a point of contact available through email, perhaps at Benares Hindu Univ., or anywhere that may help me with my study of this material? Thanks for any recommendations you can provide. ----------------------------------------------------------- Girish Sharma San Diego, CA girish at mushika.wanet.com From jonathan.silk at wmich.edu Thu Apr 25 19:25:08 1996 From: jonathan.silk at wmich.edu (jonathan.silk at wmich.edu) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 96 15:25:08 -0400 Subject: Reference Books on Sanskrit Linguistics and/or phonology Message-ID: <161227024054.23782.2530882951651970368.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I don't have the book at hand here in the office, but a student of Madhav Deshpande some years ago wrote a very interesting thesis on Skt pholology. (Sorry, that should be Phonology!) It was published in a series -- but I forgot the details -- Madhav?? Reference? From thompson at handel.jlc.net Thu Apr 25 23:49:28 1996 From: thompson at handel.jlc.net (thompson at handel.jlc.net) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 96 19:49:28 -0400 Subject: kArikA Message-ID: <161227024083.23782.1469602444514603856.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Ashok Aklujkar's interesting observations re the term kArikA caused me to re-consider the complicated relationship between the roots kR-, "to act, do", and kR- "to praise." I do not know of early, or Vedic, uses of the term kArikA, which is presumably derived from the first root kR-. But I am reminded of the controversy re the Vedic term kAr?, "poet, herald", which is generally, and with too much confidence, said to be from the second root, kR-, "to praise," rather than from the first, kR- "to do, act" [I think primarily for semantic rather than purely formal reasons]. Likewise kAr? in Vedic is ambiguous, possibly meaning "praise-song" [from kR-, "to praise"], or rather "ritual act" [from kR- "to do, act"]. I am convinced that in Vedic the semantic spheres of these two distinct verb roots have to some extent overlapped, and in fact have influenced each other. I have argued [following up the remarks of Renou and van Buitenen], in papers about to appear, that the first root kR-, "to act, do", can have the sense "to utter, i.e., to perform a speech-act." This is evident, for example, in the well-known use of the term kAra in the grammatical tradition: akAra = the phoneme 'a', etc., and it is evident also in Vedic in terms like v?SaTkRti, svAhAkRti, etc. [later, of course, oMkAra]. All of these, of course, are loaded ritual utterances. My point, in the context of kArikA, is that the term need not have any specific association with "poetic form" of any sort whatsoever, as Aklujkar indeed has shown. And yet the term kArikA may still bear the value, approximately, of "authoritative word", just as the relevant Vedic terms [compounds with second member kR- "to act"] can mean "to utter in a formal or ritual context." These ruminations about old Vedic problems may well have no relevance for the semantic history of the term KarikA, about which I will defer to specialists. But their *possible* relevance would seem to make the suggestion worth the attention of those who are interested in the term kArikA. I would be interested to hear your comments. Sincerely, George Thompson From akio25 at mbox.kyoto-inet.or.jp Thu Apr 25 12:39:36 1996 From: akio25 at mbox.kyoto-inet.or.jp (akio25 at mbox.kyoto-inet.or.jp) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 96 21:39:36 +0900 Subject: Jongcheol Lee's project? Message-ID: <161227024050.23782.413803900596834409.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, Does anyone know Jongcheol Lee's project or e-mail address? Would you please tell me about it. I would be very grateful to have it. ----------------------------------------------------- Jongcheol Lee (Director?) SDICTP (The Sanskrit Dictionary and Indian Classics Translation Project) Department of Buddhist Studies, University of Uiduk, South Korea ----------------------------------------------------- Akio MINOURA (Kyoto-city Japan) E-mail: akio25 at mbox.kyoto-inet.or.jp From selindqu at rainbow.uchicago.edu Fri Apr 26 06:55:41 1996 From: selindqu at rainbow.uchicago.edu (selindqu at rainbow.uchicago.edu) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 01:55:41 -0500 Subject: kaarikaa Message-ID: <161227024086.23782.2278678786665371349.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Some aspects of Steven E. Lindquist's inquiry of 18 Apr have been >adequately addressed by the responses of Prof. Cardona and others. While not attempting to be rude (I truly appreciated Cardona's, Thompson's, and other's responses), none of my queries has be delt with 'adequately'. Perhaps this, though, is because I want answers that are not there or perhaps I did not make myself clear in my exact interest. >very charming as they are, for example, in Bhaskaraacaarya's mathematica >In the earlier ;saastra works, one almost invariably finds ;sloka employed >for those compositions for which one may later use kaarikaa. This, perhaps is a good example of where I am not making myself clear. When I question the designation of 'kArikA', I am not speaking of broad designation of verse (anustubh - which this text is in - or otherwise), I am speaking of the clasification of the TEXT as a kArikA (such as the Samkhya KArikA, which strikes me as different from 'Samkhya kArikAs' - which this text is not called as far as I am aware - which would mean 'verses which are kArikAs, or verses in the form of kArikAs', rather than a text which is a kArikA). That is, I am speaking of 'kArikA' as a genre distinction, rather than a style distinction. It is possible that I am viewing the question in the wrong way, but so far I, while I think this may be the case, noone has pointed it out. A text, being declared a kArikA, is not solely made up of kArikAs, but rather it seems to declare a TYPE of text. For example, those texts designated as kArikAs, are root texts that are commented upon and are not comments upon other texts. kArikA form (style, i.e. verse) is of course used.... >The title Gau.da-paada kaarikaa must have come into existence at a date >later than the title Aagama-;saastra. Colophons of manuscripts as well as Vedantic commentaries seem to indicate exactly the opposite. The name appears to be an adaptation from the first prakarana of the kArikA, after it had gained some authority (hence, Agama). >This is not as rare a phenomenon as it might seem. Sure;svara wrote >kaarikaas on important sections of ; a.mkara's bhaa;syas on the >B.rhadaara.nyaka and Taittiriiya Upani;sads. There are also works >commenting on the Nirukta and the A.s.taadhyaayii or their v.rttis in verse >form. Early vaartttikas seem to consist of what we would now call >kaarikaas. But were they called kArikAs in their circulation? I ask this out of ignorance, not out of argumentality. As far as I know, this is true only as a stile. Again, I am speaking of a type of text, rather than a style of textual writing. I apologize if I am sounding contentious. It is more so out of a discontent that I did not make my initial query as clear as I could have. I truly do appreciate all of these responses because they help me to formalize, systematize, etc. my own thoughts, as well as to absorb others. Steve -- Steven Lindquist University of Chicago -- From cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu Fri Apr 26 10:09:37 1996 From: cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu (cardona at unagi.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 06:09:37 -0400 Subject: kaarikaa Message-ID: <161227024090.23782.11216677159303775331.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >>Some aspects of Steven E. Lindquist's inquiry of 18 Apr have been >>adequately addressed by the responses of Prof. Cardona and others. > >-- I >am speaking of the clasification of the TEXT as a kArikA (such as the >Samkhya KArikA, which strikes me as different from 'Samkhya kArikAs' - >which this text is not called as far as I am aware - which would mean >'verses which are kArikAs, or verses in the form of kArikAs', rather than a >text which is a kArikA). That is, I am speaking of 'kArikA' as a genre >distinction, rather than a style distinction. It is possible that I am >viewing the question in the wrong way, but so far I, while I think this may >be the case, noone has pointed it out. Compare the use of sUtra as discussed in the PaspazA by Patanjali: one can say vyAkaraNasya sUtram, but 'sUtra' can also refer to the entire aSTAdhyAyI, so that 'vyAkaraNa' and 'sUtra' do not designate distinct entities. See PANini his work and its traditions, vol. I, section 850. Similarly, kArikA can refer to a set of kArikAs. From mmdesh at umich.edu Fri Apr 26 10:48:45 1996 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 06:48:45 -0400 Subject: Reference Books on Sanskrit Linguistics and/or phonology Message-ID: <161227024092.23782.8369980426532449018.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The book Jonathan Silk refers to is James Bare's dissertation at the University of Michigan : Phonetics and Phonology in Panini, the System of Features implicit in the AzTaadhyaayii. This was published in the series Natural Language Studies, No. 2, Department of Linguistics, the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, March 1980. It has a lot of useful discussion of the PraatiSaakhyas, Sikzaas and Panini. The book is difficult to purchase these days, but I have a few copies, which I am willing to send for free to interested scholars. One would need to send me some money to cover the mailing costs. Please contact me separately at mmdesh at umich.edu. A second book coming up is my annotated critical edition of Saunakiiyaa Caturaadhyaayikaa (Whitney's Atharva-PraatiSaakhya) with three commentaries and translation. This book should be published within the next few months and it has extensive discussions on this topic, both in the notes and in the introduction. Madhav Deshpande On Thu, 25 Apr 1996 jonathan.silk at wmich.edu wrote: > I don't have the book at hand here in the office, but a student of Madhav > Deshpande some years ago wrote a very interesting thesis on Skt pholology. > (Sorry, that should be Phonology!) It was published in a series -- but I > forgot the details -- Madhav?? Reference? > > From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca Fri Apr 26 18:52:59 1996 From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 11:52:59 -0700 Subject: kaarikaa Message-ID: <161227024096.23782.9790633485704728958.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> It seems fair to say, as Steven Lindquist himself states, that the nature of his first inquiry regarding kaarikaa was not clear. Now that he has clarified that he is interested in the designation of texts as kaarikaa, the response given by Prof. Cardona applies. In other words, there is no real problem. A text consisting of kaarikaas can be called '--kaarikaa'. The plural and the singular make no significant difference in such contexts. It is true only in a limited sense that the Saa.mkhya-kaarikaa is an independent, non-commentarial text. The work itself declares that it is a summary of the .Sa.s.ti-tantra. Mr. Lindquist may be right in holding that the name Gau.da-paada-kaarikaa is older than the name Aagama-;saastra. I have not studied the manuscript evidence etc. on this particular point. However, I doubt that the latter name comes into existence for the reason he suggests: >The name appears to be an adaptation from the first prakarana of the kArikA, after it had gained some authority (hence, Agama).< A clarification of why I think so must await the finalization of a long study I have in preparation on pre-; a.mkara monism. (Do'nt hold your breath. I have many things in my plate to clear before I finalise this study.) Unless certain larger issues associated with Gau.da-paada are sorted out, the improbability of the above explanation will not be easy to point out. I shall only state at this point that the reference of 'Aagama' in 'Aagama-;saastra' is more likely to be the body of Brahmanical and Buddhist Aagama literature, that is, the tradionally handed down knowledge in the Vedas etc., the scriptures or canon (approximately speaking). The Gau.da-paada-kaarikaas purport to give us the instruction (;saastra) based on or derived from this literature. They constitute a comment or commentary in that sense. Mr. Lindquist, entertaining the possibility of there being some significant distinction ('text/genre : style/type of verse') implicit in the singular and plural use, observes: >'Samkhya kArikAs' - which this text is not called as far as I am aware< I would be surprised if at least some of the Saa.mkhya-kaarikaa commentaries do not have sentences in which a dual or plural form of kaarikaa is used and in which the composition intended cannot be anything other than two verses or more than two verses of Ii;svara-k.r.s.na, that is, a part of the work we call Saa.mkhya-kaarikaa. While usages such as saa.mkhya-kaarikayo.h or saa.mkhya-kaarikaasu may not be found, usages such as kaarikayo.h or kaarikaasu, with Ii;svara-k.r.s.na's composition as their unmistakable reference, are quite likely. ashok aklujkar Professor, Dept. of Asian Studies, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2 ashok aklujkar Professor, Dept. of Asian Studies, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2 From Jon.Skarpeid at hint.no Fri Apr 26 12:09:01 1996 From: Jon.Skarpeid at hint.no (Jon Skarpeid) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 14:09:01 +0200 Subject: kala, anadi ananta, fellowship to India Message-ID: <161227024094.23782.12454480838478074900.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> 1. Which of the philosophical systems of Indian(hindu) philosophy is deepest concerned with the phenomenom of kala, e.g. beginning and ending and non-beginning and non-ending(anadi((samsara)) and ananta(samsara), and I would also add nitya vastu)? 2. Though i have read A.Balslevs "Time in indian philosophy", I'm still woundering. Is there any other books/articles You would suggest? 3. I have also received a fellowship to India, and I wonder where's the pest place, including library with english books, to undergo a study of Indian(hindu) philosopy. From jonathan.silk at wmich.edu Fri Apr 26 19:58:54 1996 From: jonathan.silk at wmich.edu (jonathan.silk at wmich.edu) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 15:58:54 -0400 Subject: kaarikaa Message-ID: <161227024098.23782.16109572008413295961.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I just read A Aklujkar's message in which he said the reference of 'Aagama' in 'Aagama-;saastra' is more likely to be the body of Brahmanical and Buddhist Aagama literature, -- Do you mean to suggest that aagama appears, for eaxmple, in a Sa.mkhya text, it might refer to Buddhist Aagamas? Is there any evidence for this? It seems to me l highly unlikely, if for no other reason that (than) that for non-Buddhists Buddhist texts should *not* be any type of aagama. IS it not correct that generally (and perhaps there are exceptions) for Vedic / Brahmanical / Hindu writers, Buddhist texts -- rejecting as they do the authority of the Veda -- cannot themselves be any sort of authority? But perhaps I have misunderstood AA's point. -J Silk From pbilmo at deakin.edu.au Fri Apr 26 07:59:31 1996 From: pbilmo at deakin.edu.au (purushottama bilimoria) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 17:59:31 +1000 Subject: Atheism in Hinduism: help needed Message-ID: <161227024088.23782.2547820288630537494.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Partha Banerji, While cleaning up the pile-up of 2,534 indology messages especially during my time away, I came across your message. hve you seen my paper" Hindu doubts about God - towards a Mimamsa deconstruction" ? It was published in International Philosophical Quarterly in 1992 ( can send you the exact reference in a few days). On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Partha Banerjee wrote: > I am trying to find references dealing with the subject of atheism in > Hinduism. Its historical background, dialectics, the present place of the > atheist in Hindu religion compared to some other major religions, and all > that. > > Any help is appreciated. > > -Partha Banerjee > > Dept. of Biology > University at Albany > Albany, New York > > > > From vidya at cco.caltech.edu Fri Apr 26 10:04:31 1996 From: vidya at cco.caltech.edu (vidya at cco.caltech.edu) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 18:04:31 +0800 Subject: kaarikaa Message-ID: <161227024103.23782.16981089309032320987.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A few comments and questions relating to the recent discussion on kArikA - 1. To my knowledge, the word kArikA, as applied to a whole text, seems to be applied only to the sAm.khya kArikAs and the gauDapAda kArikAs. Are there other texts called kArikAs, that I am unaware of? 2. The title Agama-Sastra seems to be preferred mainly by Vishusekhara Bhattacharya among modern authors. Almost everybody else refers to the work primarily as mANDUkya kArikAs or as gauDapAda (gauDapAdIya) kArikAs. Obviously, the manuscript evidence will have to be taken into account to decide which name was preferred within the vedAnta schools. 3. Both the sAm.khya kArikA and the gauDapAda kArikA seem to occupy a dual position in terms of their nature as a commentary on an earlier text. The first is supposed to be based on the shashTI tantra, as pointed out by prof. Aklujkar, and the other is supposed to be based on the mANDUkya upanishad - the controversy over whether the prose upanishad came before or later than the verse kArikAs aside. The advaita tradition itself views the upanishad as Sruti, hence apaurusheya, and the kArikAs as the work(s) of a human author(s). However, although both these texts do not form commentaries on their root texts, in the sense that a commentary is a "bhAshya" or a "dIpikA", they seem to have played pivotal roles in the further developments of the schools of sAm.khya and vedAnta. They could be called kArikAs in that they "fashioned" in some sense, the systematic development of their respective schools. 4. sureSvara's commentaries on Sankara's bhAshyas are most often known as vArttikas. A vArttika is supposed to say what was left unsaid, to clarify what was said ambiguously and to elaborate on what was already said by the earlier author. Interestingly, padmapAda's work, the pancapAdika, is not called a vArttika. I am unaware of its being designated by any such generic name. 5. Finally, on "Agama-SAstra" - I interpreted Prof. Aklujkar's comments in a general sense. Thus, the "canonical" set of works of the Brahminical tradition would collectively be called Agama, of which the GK intends to give the purport. Of course, the Brahmin schools would have excluded any Buddhist texts from this canon. As far as the Buddhist traditions are concerned, by the time of the GK, the various sUtras and/or the Pali works had already attained the status of "canon", and could be labelled Agama with some justification. The Brahmins's canon is "Agama" for the Brahmin, and the Buddhist's canon is "Agama" for the Buddhist. I didnt think a cross-application of the two was intended in Prof. Aklujkar's remarks. 5. Probably the simplest solution to this issue is analogous to the situation with the word sUtras, to refer to the whole text and also to individual sUtras within the text, the referent being made clear by the use of the singular or plural number. S. Vidyasankar ps. Exception to points 1 and 3 above. There is of course the mUla-madhyamaka kArikAs, but are they supposed to be a comment on an earlier root text? From jh at cubsps.bio.columbia.edu Fri Apr 26 22:19:58 1996 From: jh at cubsps.bio.columbia.edu (Jim Hartzell) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 18:19:58 -0400 Subject: grants Message-ID: <161227024100.23782.8383309301500598840.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I realize this request may be somewhat amusing, since if you know of any presumably you've already applied for them yourselves; however, I'm wondering whether anyone knows of where I might find some grant funds to attend Pratap Kumar's conference in South Africa. James Hartzell, Columbia U. jh84 at columbia.edu From pbilmo at deakin.edu.au Sat Apr 27 00:43:27 1996 From: pbilmo at deakin.edu.au (purushottama bilimoria) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 96 10:43:27 +1000 Subject: kala, anadi ananta, fellowship to India Message-ID: <161227024101.23782.7416674046174289069.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Jon Skarpeid wrote: > 1. > Which of the philosophical systems of Indian(hindu) philosophy is deepest > concerned with the phenomenom of kala, e.g. beginning and ending and > non-beginning and non-ending(anadi((samsara)) and ananta(samsara), and I > would also add nitya vastu)? Try mImAm.sA and Buddhist thought or dialectical critiques of Hindu notions> > 2. > Though i have read A.Balslevs "Time in indian philosophy", I'm still > woundering. > Is there any other books/articles You would suggest? Balslev has also edited a book on time with J n Mohanty (E J Brill, early 1990s) which has some good discussions; Hari Shankar Prasad has an edit ed volume on time in Buddhism, from Indian Books Centre/Satguru Publications, Delhi, 1993 (?).> > 3. > I have also received a fellowship to India, and I wonder where's the pest > place, including library with english books, to undergo a study of > Indian(hindu) philosopy. > > "pest place" (sic) is everywhere I suppose, as philosophy in India is in such sad disarray. However, there are some good people around and one of two resourceful institutes; call in at the Indian Ciuncil for Philosophical Research (see Dr Ashok Vora), 4th floor, Rajendra Bhavan, Deen Dayal Upadhyay Marg, New Delhi; and go see two of the doyens of Indian philosophy in India, Sijabijan Bhattacharyya in Calcutta (via Dept of Philosophy, Calcutta University), and Daya Krishna in Jaipur (lives at 9 Campus Residence, Jaipur University, Jaipur). Best wishes From selindqu at rainbow.uchicago.edu Sat Apr 27 16:36:59 1996 From: selindqu at rainbow.uchicago.edu (selindqu at rainbow.uchicago.edu) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 96 11:36:59 -0500 Subject: kArikA cont. Message-ID: <161227024107.23782.15567494065171727334.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would like to thank people for their detailed comments. Here are a couple other things to toss into the ring. aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca states: >Now that he has >clarified that he is interested in the designation of texts as kaarikaa >the response given by Prof. Cardona applies. In other words, there is no >real problem. A text consisting of kaarikaas can be called '--kaarikaa'. >The plural and the singular make no significant difference in such >contexts. and >I would be surprised if at least some of the Saa.mkhya-kaarikaa >commentaries do not have sentences in which a dual or plural form of >kaarikaa is used and in which the composition intended cannot be anything >other than two verses or more than two verses of Ii;svara-k.r.s.na, that >is, a part of the work we call Saa.mkhya-kaarikaa. This is true (I thank Prof. Cardona for pointing out the Panini reference), but my conern is not whether it is a 'problem' for a text to be named something-I am asking what it means to name a text something. That is, there seems to me something more at work in terming a text a kArikA, rather than just the fact that it just consists of kArikAs (a lot of texts do, but are not named that). If someone knows otherwise please let me know, but it DOES appear to make a difference of whether it is plural or singular (not grammatically, of course, but as a more 'technically used' term). I do not know about the Sam.khya kArikA, but the Gaud.padIya kArikA is not referred to as a text in the plural-perhaps the singular is used to denote genre (with the understanding that it means verses in the plural) whereas the plural (and dual, obviously) are to refer to groups of passages, but not the text as a whole. All plural references I find with the Gaud.padIya kArikA as 'kArikA's are referring to limited groups of verses and not the text as a whole. This is what I meant by a difference a number. >It is true only in a limited sense that the Saa.mkhya-kaarikaa is an >independent, non-commentarial text. The work itself declares that it is a >summary of the .Sa.s.ti-tantra. Is this text employed throughout the kArikA? The reason I ask is that the mAn.d.Ukya upanis.ad is, as far as I can tell, always circulated within the Gaud.padIya kArikA. Hence the foundation of Bhattacharya's argument that the upanis.ad was written after the kArikA (i.e. that it is not an independent text, but a later addition. This does not seem possible because it is known as a fact that Samkara's immediate student saw them as two texts and differentiates this kArikA as human-written and the upanis.ad as sruti (which is most likely how Samkara saw it, and it is unlikely that if the text was written after the kArikA that it would have attained the status of sruti in such a short time)). The GK still strikes me as an interesting situation regarding the nature of a 'text' (and intertextuality) - both in the post-modern and in the classical sense. > I shall only state at this point that the reference of 'Aagama' >in 'Aagama-;saastra' is more likely to be the body of Brahmanical and >Buddhist Aagama literature, that is, the tradionally handed down knowledge >in the Vedas etc., the scriptures or canon (approximately speaking). The >Gau.da-paada-kaarikaas purport to give us the instruction (;saastra) based >on or derived from this literature. They constitute a comment or commentary >in that sense. I do not disagree with this definition (in fact, it is one of the more concise ones that I have come across), but (a) the earliest manuscripts do not refer to the whole text this way (b) only a couple of the later ones do, but they are quite late. All manuscripts, though, refer to the first chapter as the Agama prakarana (which works fine with your definition because it is there that the upanis.ad is placed. It still seems interesting that the whole text later assumes the title Agama). My suggestion still seems tenable: after Samkara...after the text gained popularity and was thought to be an authoritative interpretation of the upanis.ad...then it was termed the Agamasastra. More manuscript work, of course, needs to be done...but I am interested if it could be disproven and I do not see how your definition does that. Steve -- Steven Lindquist University of Chicago -- From clay at m-net.arbornet.org Sat Apr 27 15:37:05 1996 From: clay at m-net.arbornet.org (clay at m-net.arbornet.org) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 96 11:37:05 -0400 Subject: Traditional Indian Architecture Message-ID: <161227024105.23782.10424065581548915449.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Deepak Gupta, I would like to suggest that you add to your sources the two American architects Louis Sullivan and Frank Lloyd Wright. Both were able to construct sacred spaces using the respect of the materials in relationship with the psychology of the workers.Many of their buildings can be visited where one can experience created sacred space. If you would like specific pointers for possible visits on your weekends you can contact me privately.I am convinced that to visit some of their works of architecture will help you understand your traditional Indian architecture. BTW, there is a massive work by Frits Staal called AGNI which is very much connected to traditional Indian architecture and ritual. In all the above there is an important aspect of participation in the ritual to form and create the sacred - I view this participation as opportunity. Take care, jim cuddeback -- Hand-crafted Unique Remembrance Memorials http://m-net.arbornet.org/~clay To view memorials: | E-mail: http://rivendell.org/jim.html | clay at m-net.arbornet.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- From conlon at u.washington.edu Sat Apr 27 19:50:01 1996 From: conlon at u.washington.edu (Frank Conlon) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 96 12:50:01 -0700 Subject: H-ASIA: Burton Stein Message-ID: <161227024109.23782.6770138273275746988.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Friends: This cross-post from H-ASIA will convey briefly the news concerning the death of Burton Stein yesterday in London. Frank Conlon H-ASIA April 26, 1996 Burton Stein ************************************************************************ From: Frank F. Conlon I have just had word from Peter Robb at SOAS that Professor Burton Stein died this morning. Burt had been seriously ill with cancer for some months. I anticipate that a more formal obituary will be forthcoming on H-ASIA, but I trust that you will indulge me on this, as I am not quite able to take up that project just now. I first encountered Burt as a graduate student in 1960, and his guidence and critical encouragement did much to form my research and teaching. As his fertile mind was eternally young, it was not easy to realize that he would not go on forever, generating fresh ideas and insights on the shape of Indian history. Frank Conlon University of Washington ============================================================================ From lusthaus at macalstr.edu Sun Apr 28 10:48:58 1996 From: lusthaus at macalstr.edu (lusthaus at macalstr.edu) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 96 04:48:58 -0600 Subject: kArikA cont. Message-ID: <161227024111.23782.3070078483019053225.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I've been watching this thread with interest. So far, however, the discussion has overlooked other texts titled kArikA -- several texts of NAgArjuna pop to mind: mUlamadhyamakakArikA, SUnyatAsaptati-kArikAnAma and pratItyasamutpAdahRdaya-kArikA being the best known. Are these the earliest Sanskrit texts attested with the title kArikA, or are there any known earlier examples? NAgArjuna easily predates GaudapAda and the SAMkhya-kArikA by centuries. I hadn't given this much thought until the present discussion began. Dan Lusthaus Macalester College From mmaggi at sinergia.it Sun Apr 28 15:16:02 1996 From: mmaggi at sinergia.it (mmaggi at sinergia.it) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 96 15:16:02 +0000 Subject: Khotanese Buddhist tale Message-ID: <161227024114.23782.14179724386477811770.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of Indology, I am translating the Late Khotanese Buddhist tale contained in the manuscript Pelliot Chinois 2928. The tale has not been fully identified so far and is unfortunately incomplete (the text breaks off after line 41). My provisional translation is appended below. Does anyone know this story in other languages? Thanks for any suggestions. Mauro MAGGI mmaggi @sinergia.it P 2928.4-41 Thus it has been heard. So, in another time the all-knowing Buddha Sakyamuni dwelt in the land of Sravasti in the Jetavana together with (his) pupils. At that time a householder set up house in the city of Sravasti and took a wife according to (his) family so as is custom. Then, together with (his) wife he experienced plays (and) pleasures until she became pregnant. The lady there at that time, when eight, nine, ten months had elapsed for her, in (due) course gave birth to a male child, good-looking, beautiful, with complete senses as necessary, with (all) senses, very lovely, rosy like a lotus in complexion, beautiful in the measure of the limbs, similar to a prince in appearance. At the time of his birthday feast they gave him a name according to his family. Thus, he grew and grew up just like a lotus in cool water. At another time, the householder spoke to (his) wife. He told her: `Here now, a son has been born, endowed with virtues, who then, very well-tidied (and) well-bathed, having worn good dresses, garments and manly ornaments, has gone out togehter with (his) friends with the lute. So, he has gone in the street now'. There at that time there was another large house where a minister of a prominent family (but) without (noble) qualities dwelt, harsh, that one whom, here in our land, they call `the ox-like fellow'. (One) night the minister was not at his home. There at that time a girl suddenly rose glorious then, who (was) perfect, splendid (and) unconceivable in such a way that there is not (the like) in the world, a very confusing female person, excellent (and) beautiful in appearance. The householder's son, at that time, very beautifully dressed, adorned (and) very well-bathed pierced in the hearth the poisoned arrow of love. Incurable, she offered a brilliant garland of flowers to him so that the boy saw (it but could) not perceive (?) who ever had thrown (it). Now, he saw the garland at that moment. So, the girl who was staying in the chamber went half out very brilliant in appearance just such as one sees (one's) beautiful love visibly. So, Visvakarman or Kamadeva himself had prepared her possessed with (all) womanly virtues. She laughed at him when he looked at her in love. So much the woman (was) faultless in appearance (that) he lost his mind there at that time. Struck by love for her, he did not leave from the place, he just sat down there in front of her. In the chamber in delight, they touch (and) blow musical instruments (and) look sadly at one another. Then at that time the girl sent away the only old folk (who were) with them (and said) to the boy secretly: `Sleep with me here tonight. King Prasenajit is now enjoying a great banquet (and) comfort. The minister (my father) will remain for six days in total in the palace as the treasurer'. So long he experiences pleasure together with the girl according to (his) mind. He became quite contented. He told her: `So, you are (my) beloved then'. Therefore, he intended (to exchange) two rings. He told her: `I give (you) right one (ring), O girl, (and) you take the second for me here (this) evening. So great is (our) friendship!'. And he looks at her. She went as swiftly as possible (to fetch the ring and) gave the ring (to him). She told him: `(It was) ... (who) gave me this one that is in (your) hand ... From mittals at ERE.UMontreal.CA Sun Apr 28 20:23:22 1996 From: mittals at ERE.UMontreal.CA (Mittal Sushil) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 96 16:23:22 -0400 Subject: International Journal of Hindu Studies Message-ID: <161227024116.23782.13732084664924854034.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Articles to appear in the first few issues of the new : Advaita Vedanta and Typologies of Multiplicity and Unity: An Interpretation of Nondual Knowledge Joseph Milne, Theology and Religious Studies, University of Kent "Indianization" vs Sanskritization in Javanese Law Mason C Hoadley, East Asian Languages, Lund University The Power of Space in a Traditional Hindu City (Nepal) Robert Levy, Anthropology, Duke University Ajatasattu and the Future of Psychoanalytic Anthropology (3 parts) 1. The Promise of a Culture 2. The Imperative of the Wish 3. Culture, Imagination, and the Wish Dan Forsyth, Anthropology, University of Southern Colorado Religious Nationalism and Communalism Peter Heehs, History, c/o Sri Aurobindo Ashram Indian Legal Systems: Past and Present (2 parts) Werner Menski, Law, University of London What's a God? The Quest for the Right Understanding of in Brahmanical Ritual Theory () (2 parts) Fracis X Clooney, Theology, Boston College Temple Rites and Temple Servants: Religion's Role in the Survival of Kerala's Kutiyattam Drama Tradition Bruce M Sullivan, Religious Studies, Northern Arizona University Mountains of Wisdom: On the Interface Between Siddha and Vidyadhara Cults and the Siddha Orders in Medieval India David Gordon White, Religious Studies, University of Virginia When Rahu Devours the Moon: The Myth of the Birth Krsna Caitanya Tony Stewart, Religion, North Carolina State University Radhakrishnan as Advocate of the Class/Caste System as a Universal Religio-Social System Robert N Minor, Religious Studies, University of Kansas Sanskritization, Tamilization and Modernization: Social Change and the Revival of Malaysian Hinduism Richard Lee, Anthropology, University of Malaya Jaina Ideology and Early Mughal Trade with Europeans Ellison Banks Findly, Religion and Asian Studies, Trinity College Book Symposium on Robert Levy's . The contributors are: Moshe Berent, Open University of Israel Paul Cartledge, University of Cambridge David Gellner, Brunel University Michael Jameson, Stanford University Steven Parish, Boston University Declan Quigley, Queen's University Gerard Toffin, Centre Nationale de Recherche Scientifique Michael Witzel, Harvard University April 5, 1996. From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Sun Apr 28 22:29:36 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dr Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 96 22:29:36 +0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <161227024118.23782.12197735685711832526.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A little while ago there was mention of a review article by Vidhyanath Rao, on B. K. Smith's "Classifying the Universe". The URL cited proved not to be correct, or something. In any case, I have found the review at: http://spirit.encomix.com/Spirit/Veda/classifying-universum.html Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk From mittals at ERE.UMontreal.CA Mon Apr 29 18:10:22 1996 From: mittals at ERE.UMontreal.CA (Mittal Sushil) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 96 14:10:22 -0400 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227024123.23782.6747928406953119127.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have been recently working a project provisionally entitled, "Occidentalism: The World Turned Upside Down. A Study of North Indian Hindu Men's Constructions of the West". It consists of an ethnosociological study of how one group of contemporary North Indian Hindu men construct (identify, describe, characterize, conceive, imagine, generate, represent, explain) their distinct other, the Euro-American, in diverse ways. This project is part of a larger ongoing effort to a systematic study of how Hindu India has, over the centuries, formulated its approaches to it's own dual cultural 'grammar', the familiar and the other. It became obvious to me in the course of my research that this is an area in which not much has been published. I will therefore very much apppreciate any references which deal with the topic (larger or shorter) and any references that you are aware of which I must, in your opinion, be sure not to overlook. Thanks. Sushil Mittal International Institute of India Studies 1270 St-Jean St-Hyacinthe, Quebec Canada J2S 8M2 Tel (514) 771 0213, Fax (514) 771 2776, Email From biernack at ccat.sas.upenn.edu Mon Apr 29 18:53:03 1996 From: biernack at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Loriliai Biernacki) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 96 14:53:03 -0400 Subject: address requests Message-ID: <161227024125.23782.6921457318751495299.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone have the email addresses of Alexis Sanderson at Oxford and of Tony Stewart? Thanks in advance Loriliai Biernacki University of Pennsylvania From Hrid at aol.com Mon Apr 29 22:41:27 1996 From: Hrid at aol.com (Hrid at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 96 18:41:27 -0400 Subject: SOS Message-ID: <161227024130.23782.15832144844660872531.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone knkow where I can obtain a translation of the so-called Shri Sukta, which in Isidor Scheftelowitz's "Die Apokryphen des Rgveda", appears as Texts 2.6.1-19. (Note: in Bloomfield, it begins at RVKh 5.87.1) Scheftelowitz comments below the text: In Indien ist dieses Srisukta fur sich allein nebts mehreren Komm. herausgegeben. I would especially appreciate information on a reliable, or somewhat reliable translation, and how to get it. Many thanks, Howard Resnick Sanskrit and Indian Studies Harvard U. From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Mon Apr 29 20:32:05 1996 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 96 20:32:05 +0000 Subject: address requests Message-ID: <161227024127.23782.7810259450828836724.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Mon, 29 Apr 1996, Loriliai Biernacki wrote: > Does anyone have the email addresses of Alexis Sanderson at Oxford and of > Tony Stewart? I believe that Alexis disdains to use email. :-) I don't know about Tony Stewart. -- Dominik Wujastyk From kellner at ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp Mon Apr 29 17:17:11 1996 From: kellner at ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (Birgit Kellner) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 02:17:11 +0900 Subject: kArikA cont. Message-ID: <161227024121.23782.14344538573285247442.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> At 11:01 1996-04-28 BST, Dan Lusthaus wrote: >I've been watching this thread with interest. So far, however, the >discussion has overlooked other texts titled kArikA -- several texts of >NAgArjuna pop to mind: mUlamadhyamakakArikA, SUnyatAsaptati-kArikAnAma and >pratItyasamutpAdahRdaya-kArikA being the best known. I cannot give any further references to earlier texts with "kaarikaa" in the title, but a brief glance into my files came up with (at least) the following later Buddhist texts: 'Subhagupta's (ca. 720-780 A.D.) Baahyaarthasiddhikaarikaa (on which he also wrote an auto-commentary), Sarvaj~naasiddhikaarikaa, 'Srutipariik.saakaarikaa, Anyaapohavicaarakaarika, Ii'svarabha.ngakaarikaa; 'Sa.nkaranandana's Pratibandhasiddhikaarikaa, Laghupratibandhasiddhikaarikaa, Suuk.smapraamaa.nyakaarikaa, Madhapraamaa.nyakaarikaa, B.rhatpraamaa.nyakaarikaa, Anyaapohasiddhikaarikaa (on which he wrote an auto-commentary), Dharmaala.nkaarakaarikaa, Praj~naala.ngkaarakaarikaa, plus several others, partly with auto-commentaries. To add another question on the matter - where does the title of a text actually come from? Colophones, historical works, otherwise transmitted lists of works, references in other works? How is this situation with reference to those texts which were already mentioned in this thread? It seems to me that this can be quite a tricky question. Yuushoo Miyasaka, for example, gave his edition of Dharmakiirti's Pramaa.navaarttika the title "Pramaa.navaarttikakaarikaa". This may be an appropriate title for his edition, which is an edition of the verses alone (the Tibetan translations also separate the verses from the first chapter's auto-commentary and call the work "tshad ma rnam 'grel gyi tshig le'ur byas pa", i.e. -kaarikaa.). But as far as I can see at the moment (with limited access to sources), this title is not attested in any of the Sanskrit editions. The matter is further complicated by a so-called "auto-commentary" (sva-v.rtti) on the first chapter (in prose), which is held to have been an independent earlier work of Dharmakiirti, later incorporated and updated into the whole body of PV. Be all that as it may (describing the situation any further on this list would probably equal the infamous transport of coal to Newcastle), it appears that PV would have been considered to be a "-kaarikaa" by some parts of the "tradition" (i.e. the Tibetan translators), but not by others (i.e. the Sanskrit editions). Now, what is an editor to do? Birgit Kellner Department for Indian Philosophy University of Hiroshima From vasu at religion.ufl.edu Tue Apr 30 12:47:22 1996 From: vasu at religion.ufl.edu (Vasudha Narayanan) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 08:47:22 -0400 Subject: address requests Message-ID: <161227024141.23782.797314988243358662.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Tony's e-mail address is: tony_stewart at ncsu.edu Vasudha Narayanan At 08:24 PM 4/29/96 BST, you wrote: >Does anyone have the email addresses of Alexis Sanderson at Oxford and of >Tony Stewart? >Thanks in advance > >Loriliai Biernacki >University of Pennsylvania > > From francois at sas.ac.uk Tue Apr 30 08:52:35 1996 From: francois at sas.ac.uk (Francois Quiviger) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 09:52:35 +0100 Subject: Warburg Institute WWW Site (fwd) Message-ID: <161227024132.23782.7831254570242121307.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This is to announce The Warburg Institute World Wide Web Site http://www.sas.ac.uk/warburg/ which contains *general information* on the Institute, PLUS, specific information on our *fellowship programmes*, AND a list of our *seminars, lectures and colloquia*, AS WELL AS a direct link to our *OPAC*. From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Tue Apr 30 11:27:25 1996 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 12:27:25 +0100 Subject: The Hindu Message-ID: <161227024134.23782.17548776558044921238.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anybody happen to have the Web-page address of The Hindu? Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Research Fellow Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Tue Apr 30 11:53:53 1996 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 12:53:53 +0100 Subject: The Hindu Message-ID: <161227024136.23782.6751650452271568513.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanx to Girish Beeharry for the web-page address to the Hindu. For those of you who miss it too, here it is: http://www.webpage.com/hindu/index.html Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Research Fellow Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de Tue Apr 30 10:55:55 1996 From: gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 12:55:55 +0200 Subject: The Hindu Message-ID: <161227024138.23782.5355688583675045205.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The address of the Hindu (with a terrific special section on the present election!) is http://www.webpage.com/hindu/current/weekly.html John From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Tue Apr 30 14:26:50 1996 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 15:26:50 +0100 Subject: The Hindu Message-ID: <161227024143.23782.8362818886112494261.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >The address of the Hindu (with a terrific special section on the present >election!) is http://www.webpage.com/hindu/current/weekly.html >John Thank you for the information! Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Research Fellow Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no