From Gerard.Huet at inria.fr  Sun Oct  1 11:20:44 1995
From: Gerard.Huet at inria.fr (Gerard Huet)
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 95 12:20:44 +0100
Subject: Datura in Saiva iconography
Message-ID: <161227021009.23782.11197609655208403223.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The genus Datura contains several species, more or less toxic.
For instance, Datura Inoxia, an Indian plant with pink flowers,
contains an hallicinogetic (sp?) substance. So does to a lesser extent 
Datura Stramonium, a plant with big white flowers which is not uncommon in
Western Europe, and was used by witchcraft in the old days. 
In sanskrit, one name for Datura is "mohana", i.e. what provokes confusion
or madness. Does any one know whether dhattuura and mohana designate
the same species, presumably Datura Inoxia?

Gerard Huet

PS So far I got no information about my previous query about the "kitoka"
flower, which is supposed to appear in 'Siva's hair.
 





From garzilli at shore.net  Sun Oct  1 23:58:29 1995
From: garzilli at shore.net (Enrica Garzilli)
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 95 19:58:29 -0400
Subject: electronic *JOURNAL OF SOUTH ASIAN WOMEN STUDIES*
Message-ID: <161227021011.23782.4304187985035546917.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Friends and Colleagues,

This is to inform you of the new electronic JOURNAL OF SOUTH ASIAN WOMEN 
STUDIES.

Subscription is free and open to all. Articles, news, etc. 
submitted to the journal are subject to review before publication.


                 JOURNAL OF SOUTH ASIAN WOMEN STUDIES

   Editor-in-Chief: Enrica GARZILLI (Harvard University)
   
   Editorial Board: Himendra B. THAKUR (International Society 
                    Against Dowry and Bride-Burning in India, inc.), 
                    <exact composition to follow>
   
   Technical Editor: Arch. Ludovico MAGNOCAVALLO   

   e-mail (to subscribe): india at shore.net
   WWW: http://www.shore.net/~india/jsaws

   
                   ---------------------------------

1) This journal is open to all *bona fide* scholars in South Asian Women 
Studies. It is meant to disseminate works which address theoretical and 
practical issues that are of interest to both scholars of 
South Asia and to women in and from South Asia.
Subjects: law, civil rights, gender issues, religion, philosophy, politics, 
feminism and ecofeminism, classical and modern literature, poetry, 
dance, music, drama, language, translations, history, folklore, customs, 
medicine, architecture, discoveries and cultural or social products by 
women, etc. 
Areas of study: India, Nepal, Tibet, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Shri Lanka, 
Bangladesh, Bhutan, Burma, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Taiwan, 
Maldives, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines. 
2) It is monitored for style and content by the Editor-in-Chief.
3) There is copyright but with automatic permission to publish anywhere else 
later on when the author wishes to do so. Our aim is to promote 
an international debate on the subject and to disseminate our work quickly.
4) We include unpublished articles, abstracts, and news (such as on 
published books, on papers, conferences, meetings, events, 
Ph.D. projects, etc.)
5) We plan to publish once a year a hard copy of all the contributions 
to this Journal. It will be distributed under request. 

> The address for submissions is:
garzilli at shore.net
or
garzilli at HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU

> To subscribe, send a message to:
india at shore.net

 With this subject and/or content:
 subscribe (your-name)
e.g.: subscribe (Joseph Green)


                 Subscriptions are open from now, October, 1995


> The home page on WWW is found at: 
http://www.shore.net/~india/jsaws/

 WWW pages will be created by October 7, 1995.


                   * Submissions are always welcome! *


Dott. Enrica Garzilli
Harvard Law School 
email: garzilli at shore.net 
or
garzilli at HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU 



 





From garzilli at shore.net  Mon Oct  2 12:42:57 1995
From: garzilli at shore.net (Enrica Garzilli)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 08:42:57 -0400
Subject: electronic *JOURNAL OF SOUTH ASIAN WOMEN STUDIES*
Message-ID: <161227021015.23782.17876864990240820141.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dominik,
The www page is still under construction.
It will be ready in a few days.
We will add your URL in our pages.
Thank you!
  
Enrica Garzilli
Harvard Law School
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

> Enrica Garzilli said:
> 
> > This is to inform you of the new electronic JOURNAL OF SOUTH ASIAN WOMEN 
> > STUDIES.
> [...]
> >    WWW: http://www.shore.net/~india/jsaws
> 
> I have added this as a link to the INDOLOGY WWW site, but it doesn't
> seem actually to be there yet.  I assume it is in preparation and will
> appear shortly.
> 
> Dominik
> 
> -- 
> 
> Dominik Wujastyk,
> Wellcome Institute,
> 183 Euston Road,
> London NW1 2BE.
> 
> FAX: +44 171 611 8545
> email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk
> 
> For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page:
> http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html
> 
>  
> 
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Mon Oct  2 12:12:07 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 12:12:07 +0000
Subject: electronic *JOURNAL OF SOUTH ASIAN WOMEN STUDIES*
Message-ID: <161227021013.23782.12150639517643157998.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Enrica Garzilli said:

> This is to inform you of the new electronic JOURNAL OF SOUTH ASIAN WOMEN 
> STUDIES.
[...]
>    WWW: http://www.shore.net/~india/jsaws

I have added this as a link to the INDOLOGY WWW site, but it doesn't
seem actually to be there yet.  I assume it is in preparation and will
appear shortly.

Dominik

-- 

Dominik Wujastyk,
Wellcome Institute,
183 Euston Road,
London NW1 2BE.

FAX: +44 171 611 8545
email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk

For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page:
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html

 





From d.keown at gold.ac.uk  Mon Oct  2 13:56:46 1995
From: d.keown at gold.ac.uk (d.keown at gold.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 14:56:46 +0100
Subject: JBE Publication News, Oct 2, 1995
Message-ID: <161227021018.23782.5465449084907534321.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

----------------------------------------------
JOURNAL OF BUDDHIST ETHICS
-----------------------------------------------

GENERAL EDITORS:     Damien Keown (Goldsmiths, London),
                     Charles S. Prebish (Penn State)

TECHNICAL EDITOR:    Wayne Husted (Penn State)

BOOK REVIEW EDITOR:  Karen Lang (Virginia)

EDITORIAL BOARD:

Masao Abe (Nara), George Bond (Northwestern), David Chappell
(Hawaii), Lance Cousins (Manchester), Richard Gombrich
(Oxford), Charles Hallisey (Harvard), Ian Harris (St Martin's,
Lancaster), Peter Harvey (Sunderland), Richard Hayes (McGill),
Christopher Ives (Puget Sound), Leslie Kawamura (Calgary), Winston
King (Emeritus, Vanderbilt), Kenneth Kraft (Lehigh University),
Karen Lang (Virginia), Reginald Ray (Colorado), Lambert Schmithausen
(Hamburg), Robert Thurman (Columbia), Paul Williams (Bristol).

The _Journal of Buddhist Ethics_ is delighted to welcome Professor
Kenneth Kraft as the newest member of its Editorial Board. Kenneth
Kraft is Associate Professor of Religion Studies at Lehigh
University, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.  He is the author of the
award-winning _Eloquent Zen: Daitoo and Early Japanese Zen_
(University of Hawaii, 1992) and the editor of _Zen: Tradition and
Transition_ (Grove, 1988).  He also edited _Inner Peace, World
Peace: Essays on Buddhism and Nonviolence_ (State University of New
York, 1992), which explores central tenets of Buddhist ethics in
historical and contemporary contexts.  Currently he is examining
moral issues pertaining to radioactive waste.

In acknowledging Professor Kraft's new association with the
journal, the editors are pleased to announce the forthcoming
publication of his important new article "Practicing Peace: Social
Engagement in Western Buddhism." (Available 3 October, 1995.)

Citation: Vol. 2 1995: 152-172
Directory: /vol 2
Filename: kraft.txt
Publication Date: 3 October 1995

ABSTRACT

     This essay examines some current concerns of socially engaged
Buddhists in the West. How does one practice nonviolence in one's own
life and in the world? How can the demands of "inner" and "outer" work
be reconciled? What framework should be used in assessing the effects
of Buddhist-inspired activism? Today's engaged Buddhists do not refer
extensively to Buddhism's ethical tradition, and some of their
activities may not appear to be distinctively Buddhist. Nonetheless,
their efforts reflect a longstanding Mahaayaana ideal -- that
transcendental wisdom is actualized most meaningfully in compassionate
action.


 


>?From P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk 02 95 Oct EDT 17:35:00
Date: 02 Oct 95 17:35:00 EDT
From: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk
Subject: Catalogues, Entries vs Numbers
Reply-To: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Dear members of the list
This enquiry is directed mainly at those of you who use descriptive 
catalogues of manuscripts in Sanskrit, Hindi and other languages.

Some catalogues give greatest prominence to *a catalogue serial number* for 
each entry. (i.e. British Library catalogues, Tripathi's catalogue of the 
Strasbourg Jaina MSS)

A few catalogues give greatest prominence to the *MS number* for each entry. 
(i.e. Blumhardt and Master's catalogue of Gujarati and Rajasthani 
manuscripts in the IOL)   

My question is this, which system do you find preferable or easier to use?
[I ask this because I am about to publish a catalogue of Hindi Manuscripts 
in the library here and wonder which system to adopt.]

Dr Peter G. Friedlander
Cataloguer of Hindi and Panjabi Manuscripts
Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine
183 Euston Road
London NW1 2BN
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Tue Oct  3 11:30:05 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 11:30:05 +0000
Subject: Catalogues, Entries vs Numbers
Message-ID: <161227021020.23782.9468935445071175243.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk said:

> My question is this, which system do you find preferable or easier to use?
> [I ask this because I am about to publish a catalogue of Hindi Manuscripts 
> in the library here and wonder which system to adopt.]

Peter and I have discussed this issue of visual design at some length,
and we are in agreement about the issues involved.  As I see them, they
are:

1/ as long as there are two reference numbers in a catalogue, someone,
   one day, will confuse them.  Just last week, I received from the
   India Office two rolls of microfilm (out of five) which were of the
   wrong manuscript because the photographer had taken the manuscript
   number to be a catalogue serial number from Eggeling's catalogue.

   So one design goal must be to minimize the possibility of the reader
   getting hold of the wrong number for MS ordering.  The ideal of
   simply doing away with a catalogue number is not really achievable,
   since it often forms the basis of reference from the index, and for
   internal cross-referencing in the catalogue.

2/ The "name" of a manuscript, its identity for citation and so on, is
   its shelf mark in the library where it resides at the time of
   reference.  This is the number used for all scholarly purposes, as
   well as for ordering the MS, or copies, from the library.  Therefore,
   this number should, in my view, be the most prominent number printed
   in the catalogue.

Incidentally, another issue on which I would like to canvas opinion is
manuscript foliation.  In the tradition of "big" library processing of
manuscripts, when a MS enters the library it is first of all accessioned
and foliated.  This means some poor drudge goes through the MS carefully
numbering each leaf in pencil, and ends by initialling and dating the
last leaf.  This foliation is entered into the accessions register.

All later reference to the leaves of the manuscript are done using the
most recent level of foliation, which is normally the library's
foliation added at accession time as above.  "Primary" reference is not
made via the scribe's foliation, although of course there may be all
sorts of reasons for discussion scribal foliation.  But *the* leaf
number is the library's foliation.

This procedure is normal for European manuscripts in the major libraries
of the West, and for Oriental MSS in some of these libraries, including
the British Library (and India Office), the Bodleian, and Cambridge.
But to what extent do you think this can be applied to Indic
manuscripts?  The plain fact is that -- worldwide -- most Indic
manuscripts are not foliated in the above, formal, sense.  So the only
numbers available are scribal.  They may be a mess, but that's all one
has.

But what about collections like the Bodleian's Chandra Shum Shere
collection, which was indeed foliated by a librarian in the early part
of this century.  The foliation was very careful and provides a valuable
and consistent way of referring to leaves in the collection.  Many of
the manuscripts are fragmentary, so the scribal numbering is frequently
incomplete or disturbed.  Also, scribes and owners often renumbered the
leaves of their manuscripts (why?), usually making further mistakes.
David Pingree's excellent catalogue of the Jyotisa MSS, however, refers
to scribes foliation throughout, and not the library foliation.

As usual in scholarly writing, coherence, clarity, and consistency are
more important than which particular technical system of presentation
one uses.  But do you have any thoughts on this issue?

Dominik



 





From athr at loc.gov  Tue Oct  3 16:02:05 1995
From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 12:02:05 -0400
Subject: Nepal Studies: Past and Present
Message-ID: <161227021022.23782.11246971149068517890.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

We have just received a letter that for various reasons requires an 
official response on the letterhead of The Nepal Studies: Past and 
Present, GPO Box 2531, Kathmandu, signed by Mrs. Indu Joshi, Vice 
President. I assumed this was a periodical but I can't find any such 
title on various databases.  Does anyone know anything about this 
organization?  I would be very grateful for any information, and for 
getting it quickly.

Thanks,

Allen Thrasher
 





From athr at loc.gov  Tue Oct  3 19:21:40 1995
From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 15:21:40 -0400
Subject: Annemarie Schimmel
Message-ID: <161227021024.23782.11450645057299695426.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anyone have the address of Prof. Annemarie Schimmel?

Thanks,

Allen W. Thrasher
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Library of Congress
Washington, DC 20540-4774
tel. 202-707-5600
fax  202-707-1724
Email: athr at loc.gov

 





From gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de  Wed Oct  4 08:42:22 1995
From: gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (gor05)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 09:42:22 +0100
Subject: "NEW DISCUSSION GROUP
Message-ID: <161227021028.23782.3912693450405773317.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


As of today, October 4, 1995, there is a new discussion group by the name of 
VYAKARAN, started by me, that it is open to all interested, free of charge.

The purpose of VYAKARAN is to further discussion between interested 
scholars working on any aspect of South Asian linguistics, whether modern 
or historical, syntax or sociolinguistics, Indo-Aryan or Dravidian (to 
mention just two families), Panini or the Hindi-Urdu question. If you don't 
find what you're looking for here, don't worry, as the list could go on and 
on...

Right now, I'd just like to see how the list runs before investing time and 
money in software, etc., so if you'd like to join, please be patient, as 
I'm currently doing all the mail myself. If you're interested, just send a 
short note to me at the following address:

                     vyakara at toppoint.de

with the subject: VYAKARAN, and I'll add your name to the list. Don't forget 
to give your first and last name and of course your email address!

If you'd like to send a message to everyone on the list, just send your 
message to the same address with a short description in the subject line 
and I'll send it off to everyone within a day (I hope).

Right now, I don't have any intention of editing the list, just sending out 
the mail. I'm assuming that everyone is familiar with 'NET-iquette', 
but other than that, you decide what we talk about. It could be that we'll 
have to end up restricting the subject matter a little, preferably to 
historical linguistics, but right now anything having to do with South 
Asian linguistics is welcome.

Looking forward to hearing from you!

John Peterson

Kiel, Germany
email: vyakara at toppoint.de    or    gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de
 





From John.Powers at anu.edu.au  Wed Oct  4 04:25:55 1995
From: John.Powers at anu.edu.au (John.Powers at anu.edu.au)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 14:25:55 +1000
Subject: Divali
Message-ID: <161227021026.23782.13864619492582183047.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Can anyone recommend good sources on the origins, theory, and practice of
the Divali festival? I've been asked to give a talk at the upcoming one,
and thought that it might be nice to work in some material on the festival
itself. Any references would be greatly appreciated.

John Powers
Faculty of Asian Studies
Australian National University
Canberra, ACT 0200
Australia
cjp643 at anu.edu.au


 





From Ernst.Prets at oeaw.ac.at  Wed Oct  4 14:42:09 1995
From: Ernst.Prets at oeaw.ac.at (Ernst.Prets at oeaw.ac.at)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 15:42:09 +0100
Subject: Solomon articles
Message-ID: <161227021030.23782.1666117399705286438.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



E.A. Solomon wrote a few articles on `Forgotten Naiyaayikas? which are known 
to me. In a footnote of one of her articles (Trilocana - A Forgotten 
Naiyaayika, Proceedings of the 4th World Sanskrit Conference, Berlin 1986 
which seems to be a short version of the one mentioned below, No1) she 
refers to more of her articles on this topic all of which seem to be 
published in Vidya, The Journal of the Gujarat University, Ahmedabad 
(C-Languages??). Does anybody on the list have access to or, at least, have 
the correct bibliographical references of the following articles, since the 
bibliographic references of Solomon are partly cryptic and inconsistent:

1. Trilocana - A Forgotten Naiyaayika. Vidya 23/1 1980
2. Aviddhakarn.a - A Forgotten Naiyaayika. Vidya 13/1 1070
3. A Further Note on Aviddhakarn.a. Vidya 13/2 1971
4. Forgotten Naiyaayikas: Acaarya Adhyayana. Vidya 17 Humanities 1974
5. Forgotten Naiyaayikas: Bhaavivikta. Vidya 17/1-2 1974
6. Forgotten Naiyaayikas: Vi?svaruupa. Vidya 18/1 1976
7. ?Sa.nkara - A Forgotten Naiyaayika. Vidya 1978.

Since I need these articles rather urgently, I would be gratful for any help.


Ernst Prets
Institut f?r Kultur- und Geistesgeschichte Asiens
?sterreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften
Postgasse 7/4/3
A-1010 Wien



 





From vmurthy at informix.com  Thu Oct  5 00:04:34 1995
From: vmurthy at informix.com (vmurthy at informix.com)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 17:04:34 -0700
Subject: Divali
Message-ID: <161227021036.23782.10400257863090166784.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Follwoing is an article from the book, "Our Festivals" by H.V.Seshadri.

                             DIWALI

( AASHWAYUJA KRISHNA CHATURDASHI TO KAARTIKA SHUKLA DWITEEYAA )
The 14th Day of the dark half of Aashwayuja to the 2nd day of bright half of
Kaartik

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If there is one occasion which is all joy and all jubilation for one and all -
the young and the old, men and women - for the entire Hindu world, it is
Deepaavali - the Festival of Lights. Even the humblest of huts will be lighted
by a row of earthern lamps. Crackers resound and light up the earth and the
sky. The faces of boys and girls flow with a rare charm in their dazzling hues
and colors. Illumination - Deepotsavas - in temples and all sacred places of
worship and one the banks of rivers symbolize the scattering of spiritual
radiance all round from these holy centres. The radiant sight of everybody
adorned with new and bright clothes, especially ladies decorated with the best
of ornaments, captures the social mood at its happiest.

And all this illumination and fireworks, joy and festivity, is to signify the
victory of divine forces over those of wickedness.

Narakaasura was a demon king ruling over Praagjyotishapura (the present-day
Assam). By virtue of his powers and boons secured from God, he became
all-conquering. Power made him swollen-headed and he became a menace to the
good and the holy men and even the Gods. The Gods headed by Devendra implored
Sri Krishna who was at Dwaaraka (in the present-day Gujarat) to come to their
rescue. Sri Krishna responded. He marched from the western end of the country
to its eastern end, Praagjyotishapura, destroyed the huge army which opposed
him and finally beheaded Narakaasura himself. The populace was freed from the
oppressive tyranny and all heaved a sigh of relief. The 16,000 women kept in
captivity by the demon king were freed.
After the slaying of Narakaasura Sri Krishna bathed himself smearing
his body with oil in the early morning of Chaturdashi. Hence the invigorating
vogue of taking an early morning `oil-bath' on that day.

Mother Earth, whose son Narakaasura was, requested Sri Krishna that the day be
celebrated as one of jubilation. Sri Krishna granted the request and since then
the tradition has continued. Mother Earth reconciled herself to the loss of her
son and knowing as she did that the Lord had punished her son for the sake of
the welfare of the world, she set a glowing example of how one has to brush
aside one's personal joys and sorrows in the interest of society. It is this
deliverance of the people from the clutches of the asuras that fill the people
with joy.

Then follows Amaavaasya, the new moon day, auspicious for offering prayers and
gratitude to the bygone ancestors of the family and invoking their memories and
blessings for treading the path of right conduct. This is also the sacred
occasion for the worship of Mahaa Lakshmi, the goddess of Wealth and
Prosperity. The business community open their New Year's account with Her
worship. This reminds us of the famous saying of the sage Vyaasa,
'dharmaadarthashcha kaamashcha...' - it is through right conduct that wealth
and fulfilment of desires also accrue.

In northern parts of Bharat, Deepaavali is associated with the return of Sri
Rama to Ayodhya after vanquishing Raavana. The people of Ayodhya, overwhelmed
with joy, welcomed Rama through jubilation and illumination of the entire
capital. Well has it been said that while Sri Rama unified the north and south
of our country, Sri Krishna unified the west and the east. Sri Rama and Sri
Krishna together therefore symbolize the grand unity of our motherland.

The third day, i.e., the first day of Kaartik, is named Balipratipada, after
the demon king Bali, the ruler of Paataala (the netherworld), who had extended
his kingdom over the earth also. On the day, Sri Vishnnu, taking the form of a
dwarfish Brahmin by name Vaamana, approached Bali, for a boon of space equal to
his three steps. Bali, known for his charity, gladly granted the boon. Vaamana
now grew into a gigantic form; with one step he covered the entire earth, with
the second he covered the outer sky, and asked Bali where he should keep his
third step. Bali, left with no other choice, showed his own head. Sri Vishnu
placed his foot on Bali's head and pushed him down to the netherworld, the
rightful territory of Bali's reign. However, Bali prayed to the Lord that he
might be permitted to visit the earth once a year. Now it was the turn of
Vishnu to grant the boon. And the people too offer their and respect to him on
this day.

The annual visit of Bali is celebrated in Kerala as Onam. It is the most
popular festival for Kerala where every Hindu home receives him with floral
decorations and lights and festoons adorn all public places. Onam, however,
falls on the 16th day of Aavani (Sowramaana) in september.

The pratipada is also the day for Govardhana Pooja and Anna Koota (heap of
grains), the former signifying the Govardhana episode in Sri Krishna's life and
the latter conveying affluence and prosperity.

The fourth and final day is Yama Dwiteeya, also called Bahu beej. It is a most
touching moment for the family members when even distant brothers reach their
sisters to strengthen that holy tie. The sister applies tilak and waves aarati
to her brother, and the brother offers loving presents to the sister.

To the Jains, Deepaavali has an added significance to the great event of
Mahaaveera attaining the Eternal Bliss of Nirvaana. The passing into Eternity
on the same Amaavaasya of Swami Dayananda Saraswati, that leonine sanyasin who
was one of the first to light the torch of Hindu Renaissance during the last
century, and of Swami Ramatirtha who carried the fragrance of the spiritual
message of Hindu Dharma to the western world, have brought the
national-cum-spiritual tradition of Deepaavali right up to modern times.


 





From pb019 at csc.albany.edu  Thu Oct  5 03:30:28 1995
From: pb019 at csc.albany.edu (pb019 at csc.albany.edu)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 09:30:28 +0600
Subject: Sth Indian drumming
Message-ID: <161227021038.23782.15118374276973097895.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Can anyone give me a rough date on the appearance of the practice of
>separate performances of tala vadya kacceri (as distinct from tani
>avartam). Particularly, is it a recent phenomenon in concert life
>
>thanks
>John Napier
>University of New South Wales
>Sydney Australia
>
---

Any information on the various schools of Indian drumming would be much
appreciated in this context. There are always some drumming festivals going
on in India around this time of the year (i.e., harvest time). The
much-celebrated Alla Rakha and Zakir Hussain aside, the art of drumming is
almost a sacred ritual among many tribes and the so-called "non-Aryan"
inhabitants of south Asia. Some examples would be the Santhals, Kols,
Mundas, and Khasis. Their drumming, if not anything else, works as therapy
to the cacophony-stricken city-dwellers.

Thanks in advance.

-Partha Banerjee

University at Albany
Albany, New York
USA


 





From Jayant.B.BAPAT at sci.monash.edu.au  Thu Oct  5 09:35:51 1995
From: Jayant.B.BAPAT at sci.monash.edu.au (Bapat Jb)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 09:35:51 +0000
Subject: Divali
Message-ID: <161227021032.23782.10097224273526585883.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> Date:          Wed, 04 Oct 1995 05:27:39 -0300 (BST)
> From:          John.Powers at anu.edu.au (John Powers)
> Subject:       Divali
> To:            Members of the list <indology at liverpool.ac.uk>
> Reply-to:      indology at liverpool.ac.uk
John Powers said:
>" Can anyone recommend good sources on the origins, theory, and practice of
> the Divali festival? I've been asked to give a talk at the upcoming one,
> and thought that it might be nice to work in some material on the festival
> itself. Any references would be greatly appreciated."
       
        Vivekananda Kendra Patrika published a special issue 
   of their journal on Hindu Festivals which dealt with Diwali
   in detail. I have a copy of it. There are of course many books
   on the subject. If you like, I can fax you some information.
   Jayant Bapat
   bapat at sci.monash.edu.au
   Fax: 99054507, Ph.: 99054510
 

> 
> Australian National University
> Canberra, ACT 0200
> Australia
> cjp643 at anu.edu.au
> 
> 
>  
> 
____________________________________________________________________
Dr J.B. Bapat                                     Phone (03)9054510
Chemistry Department                              Fax   (03)9054597 
Monash University           e-mail:jayant.b.bapat at sci.monash.edu.au
Clayton, Victoria
Australia
____________________________________________________________________



 
    
 





From J.Napier at unsw.EDU.AU  Thu Oct  5 00:44:11 1995
From: J.Napier at unsw.EDU.AU (J.Napier)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 10:44:11 +1000
Subject: Sth Indian drumming
Message-ID: <161227021034.23782.5092555969046558513.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Can anyone give me a rough date on the appearance of the practice of 
separate performances of tala vadya kacceri (as distinct from tani 
avartam). Particularly, is it a recent phenomenon in concert life

thanks
John Napier
University of New South Wales
Sydney Australia
 





From vidya at cco.caltech.edu  Thu Oct  5 17:57:16 1995
From: vidya at cco.caltech.edu (vidya at cco.caltech.edu)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 10:57:16 -0700
Subject: Sth Indian drumming
Message-ID: <161227021043.23782.10790598004825793085.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

To begin with, the practice of having music concerts is itself 
a fairly recent phenomenon, about 100 - 150 years old. As far as 
I am aware of, there were no separate tAla vAdya kacceris till the
later 60's - early 70's. I haven't heard of the stalwart Palghat 
Mani Iyer performing any tAla vAdya kacceris in the modern format.
He did play once with the tabla maestro Tirakhwa, if I remember
right. 

Thus, I would think that it is indeed a recent phenomenon to have
tAla vAdya ensembles performing concerts, roughly 25-30 years old. 

S. Vidyasankar

 





From vmurthy at informix.com  Thu Oct  5 19:04:05 1995
From: vmurthy at informix.com (vmurthy at informix.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 12:04:05 -0700
Subject: Divali
Message-ID: <161227021049.23782.7578126231032962172.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


I  felt the response by Mr.Partha was out of context. The original poster
requested for stories and how diwali is celebrated.  If some one asks, "how
christmas is celebrated", you say - people decorate christmas tree,
and have good time with friends and family members. That is not the place to
talk of poverty and the fact that poor christians do not get to celebrate!
Poverty prevents people in all religions to celebrate the festivities.

> From: pb019 at csc.albany.edu (Partha Banerjee)
> ---
> Just a small anecdote. Mr. Seshadri is the present chief of
> the Hindu fundamentalist organization -- RSS or the Rashtriya Swayamsevak
> Sangh.

Again, whether RSS is a fundamentalist or progressive is a debatable issue among
scholars and I don't know whether indology list is the right place to discuss 
that. But, definitely that topic has nothing to do with 'Diwali'.

> In Ramayana, the "non-Arya" "demon" king Ravana, who to
> me signifies nothing but human steadfastness and bravery, is killed by the
> "Arya"-therefore-"divine" Lord Rama where the latter resorts to any
> possible deceptive and deplorable tactics to conquer the land of Lanka (or
> Srilanka as we know it now).
> 
  Here, the author lacks sufficient knowledge of Ramayan story. 
1. Ravana was a Brahmin by birth and Ram was not a Brahmin! In fact, the
   author of Ramayan, sage Valmiki is not a Brahmin by birth. Also, if Ravan is
   "not-Arya", so is the case with his brother Vibhishana. But, Rama gave
   the kingdom to Vibhishana at the end of the war.
2. Ravana was a great devotee of Shiva and Ram also worships Shiva on his way to   Lanka. So, there is no question of 'difference in culture and gods' being 
   the reason for the fight.

3. Was Ram trying to expand his kingdom ? NO.
	* If he was that power hungry, he would not have left the kingdom, even
	  after his brother requested him to do so.
	* After the war, he gave back the kingdom of Lanka to the brother of 
	Ravan - Vibhishana and never went to Lanka again.
	* He did not rule the kingdom of Kishkindha in South, but gave it to
	Sugreeva.
	* He did not defeat any other king on his way from Ayodhya to Lanka.
	he did not even think of war with Ravan, until Sita was abducted.
	Now, the marxist historians of JNU (javaharlal nehru Univ) are ready
	with their version of story that Sita went with Ravana on her own!


> The celebration of Dussera, a parallel festival (the tenth day of the
> ceremony to worship Goddess Durga) is in fact a relic of Lord Rama's
> invocation of the Goddess which is also known as "Akal Bodhan" (i.e., an
> untimely invocation) as traditionally in ancient India, the worship of
> Durga would take place much later in the year. Rama, according to Hindu
> scriptures, did this untimely supplication to earn the blessings of the
> Goddess to conquer Ravana.

 I would like to hear some references to supplement the fact that it was 
"untimely". Throughout India, Durga Pooja is done during Nav Ratri. On the
10th day of Vijay Dashami, Ram killed Ravana. During nav ratri (9 nights before)
people worship goddess Durga, Lakshmi and Saraswati. It's symbolism is
that only when power (Durga), wealth (lakshmi) and right knowledge (Saraswati)
exists together, victory is gauranteed.

I would expect a more scholarly and logical discussion supplemented by 
references.

Regards
Venkatesh
 


>?From THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV 05 1995 Oct EST 15:08:15
Date: 05 Oct 1995 15:08:15 EST
Reply-To: THRASHER <THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV>
From: ALLEN W THRASHER <THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV>
Subject: DIVALI

          The Hindu religous journal (mostly in Hindi and Sanskrit) Kalyana 
          from Gorakhpur traditionally devotes each issues (book-size) to a 
          single theme.  I would not  be surprised if  there  is  a special 
          issue on Divali. 
           
          Allen Thrasher                                                    
 





From pb019 at csc.albany.edu  Thu Oct  5 07:09:55 1995
From: pb019 at csc.albany.edu (pb019 at csc.albany.edu)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 13:09:55 +0600
Subject: Divali
Message-ID: <161227021041.23782.13233549206697176898.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Even though the following article is a rather good account of the festival
of Diwali, I think it only depicts one much-publicized side of it and
ignores an important although not-so-popular side.  Therefore, some
clarifications are probably in order. Please see my response to the various
segments of the article. Thanks.

-Partha Banerjee

Dept. of Biology
University at Albany
Albany, New York, USA
----------------------

>Follwoing is an article from the book, "Our Festivals" by H.V.Seshadri.

---
My response: Just a small anecdote. Mr. Seshadri is the present chief of
the Hindu fundamentalist organization -- RSS or the Rashtriya Swayamsevak
Sangh. A close look at the organization would not be totally irrelevant in
this context. However, I resist myself of the urge to going into the
details of it in this discussion. One might refer to some recent threads on
RSS in newsgroups such as soc.culture.indian, soc.culture.bengali,
soc.culture.indian.kerala, or soc.culture.indian.marathi.
---
>
>                             DIWALI
>
>( AASHWAYUJA KRISHNA CHATURDASHI TO KAARTIKA SHUKLA DWITEEYAA )
>The 14th Day of the dark half of Aashwayuja to the 2nd day of bright half of
>Kaartik
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>If there is one occasion which is all joy and all jubilation for one and all -
>the young and the old, men and women - for the entire Hindu world, it is
>Deepaavali - the Festival of Lights. Even the humblest of huts will be lighted
>by a row of earthern lamps. Crackers resound and light up the earth and the
>sky. The faces of boys and girls flow with a rare charm in their dazzling hues
>and colors. Illumination - Deepotsavas - in temples and all sacred places of
>worship and one the banks of rivers symbolize the scattering of spiritual
>radiance all round from these holy centres. The radiant sight of everybody
>adorned with new and bright clothes, especially ladies decorated with the best
>of ornaments, captures the social mood at its happiest.

---
My response:

This description of the festivities, however grandiose and utopian, is
rather one-sided and does not depict the way many poorer communities in
India spend the Diwali times. There are millions of families in India where
no lamps are lit, no crackers are cracked, and no ornaments are worn.
Diwali (and many other Indian festivities) has been synonymous with the
eclectic upper hierarchy of the Hindu religion for ages.  In most Hindu
temples, the so-called "untouchables" would not even be allowed to enter to
celebrate this or any other such eclectic festivities -- whether religious
or socio-cultural.
---
>
>And all this illumination and fireworks, joy and festivity, is to signify the
>victory of divine forces over those of wickedness.

---

My response:

Again, this is vague. Who is the divine and who is the wicked? The Hindu
religion (as practiced and imposed-upon by the Brahminical order)
deliberately confuses this important issue. The so-called elite of the
upper castes who have traditionally been ruling India and Hinduism: are
they divine? Are the so-called "Indo-European Aryas" divine? And the
"non-Aryas" (including the non-Hindus) wicked? That's the much-publicized
prevalent concept. In Ramayana, the "non-Arya" "demon" king Ravana, who to
me signifies nothing but human steadfastness and bravery, is killed by the
"Arya"-therefore-"divine" Lord Rama where the latter resorts to any
possible deceptive and deplorable tactics to conquer the land of Lanka (or
Srilanka as we know it now).

The celebration of Dussera, a parallel festival (the tenth day of the
ceremony to worship Goddess Durga) is in fact a relic of Lord Rama's
invocation of the Goddess which is also known as "Akal Bodhan" (i.e., an
untimely invocation) as traditionally in ancient India, the worship of
Durga would take place much later in the year. Rama, according to Hindu
scriptures, did this untimely supplication to earn the blessings of the
Goddess to conquer Ravana.

Lord Rama is glorified in Brahminical Hinduism and of course, Ravana is
ridiculed to death (as is manifested by the ritualistic blazing of Ravana's
kushaputtalika or straw icon).  The fundamentalist Hindu parties in India
champion the causes of Lord Rama (however vague they may be) to exploit the
unchallenging mindset of the Hindu electorate.

What do Indology scholars do in this intellectual paradox? Would be
interesting to see.
---
>In northern parts of Bharat, Deepaavali is associated with the return of Sri
>Rama to Ayodhya after vanquishing Raavana. The people of Ayodhya, overwhelmed
>with joy, welcomed Rama through jubilation and illumination of the entire
>capital. Well has it been said that while Sri Rama unified the north and south
>of our country, Sri Krishna unified the west and the east. Sri Rama and Sri
>Krishna together therefore symbolize the grand unity of our motherland.

---
My response:

See the problem here. Rama, according to Mr. Seshadri, unified the north
and south. In reality, he killed the mighty Ravana and extended the "Aryan"
Hindu invasion to the south.  All voices of dissent were silenced.  All
other ways to live in India were methodically discouraged.  Socio-religious
conformity was forcefully imposed.  And, regarding the "grand unity of our
motherland", welcome to the indoctrination of the celebrated RSS and its
daughter organizations BJP (the now-formidable Hindu right-wing political
party), the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP)--the religious wing, or the
Vivekananda Kendra--the social-work wing.
---
>The annual visit of Bali is celebrated in Kerala as Onam. It is the most
>popular festival for Kerala where every Hindu home receives him with floral
>decorations and lights and festoons adorn all public places. Onam, however,
>falls on the 16th day of Aavani (Sowramaana) in september.
>
>The pratipada is also the day for Govardhana Pooja and Anna Koota (heap of
>grains), the former signifying the Govardhana episode in Sri Krishna's life and
>the latter conveying affluence and prosperity.
>
>The fourth and final day is Yama Dwiteeya, also called Bahu beej. It is a most
>touching moment for the family members when even distant brothers reach their
>sisters to strengthen that holy tie. The sister applies tilak and waves aarati
>to her brother, and the brother offers loving presents to the sister.
>
>To the Jains, Deepaavali has an added significance to the great event of
>Mahaaveera attaining the Eternal Bliss of Nirvaana. The passing into Eternity
>on the same Amaavaasya of Swami Dayananda Saraswati, that leonine sanyasin who
>was one of the first to light the torch of Hindu Renaissance during the last
>century, and of Swami Ramatirtha who carried the fragrance of the spiritual
>message of Hindu Dharma to the western world, have brought the
>national-cum-spiritual tradition of Deepaavali right up to modern times.

---
My response:

See the incoherence (quite expectedly so) among the various Indian
festivities around Diwali.  In Bengal, for instance, Durga Puja is now the
most-celebrated customary festival, particularly in the cities where the
upper-caste affluent live (in villages, they have their own celebrations,
e.g., the Raas-Lila of Sri Chaitanya who through his socio-religious
movements broke down the barriers of the degenerate caste-system and
brought about interreligious faith).

However, Diwali, as we know it in Bengal, is the time when people worship
the Goddess Kali.  Kali is naked symbolizing disavowal of earthly objects
arguably also including the dogmas of orthodoxy. Kali is wild. Kali with
her "rakhshasi" companions dances in the "shmashan".  Kali breaks down all
the barriers.  The barriers imposed upon by the Hindu upper-caste
hierarchy.

To me, that's Diwali.


 





From srini at engin.umich.edu  Thu Oct  5 17:18:08 1995
From: srini at engin.umich.edu (Srinivasan Pichumani)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 13:18:08 -0400
Subject: Sth Indian drumming
Message-ID: <161227021045.23782.2957878515850102609.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>>Can anyone give me a rough date on the appearance
>>of the practice of separate performances of tala
>>vadya kacceri (as distinct from tani avartam).
>>Particularly, is it a recent phenomenon in concert
>>life

As far as I know, w.r.t. Carnatic music, yes.  It is
only since the mid-80s that such ensembles have been
around...

-Srini.
 





From pb019 at csc.albany.edu  Thu Oct  5 08:17:38 1995
From: pb019 at csc.albany.edu (pb019 at csc.albany.edu)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 14:17:38 +0600
Subject: Divali
Message-ID: <161227021047.23782.14496199795727643140.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

One quick correction with apology. Mr. H. Seshadri is not "the Chief" of
RSS, but one of its chief leaders.

-Partha Banerjee

Dept. of Biology
University at Albany
Albany, New York, USA


 





From csr at jupiter.wipro.com  Thu Oct  5 06:47:55 1995
From: csr at jupiter.wipro.com (csr at jupiter.wipro.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 14:47:55 +0800
Subject: Diwali
Message-ID: <161227021055.23782.11711429334752007950.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>From: vmurthy at informix.com (Venkatesh Murthy) 
-From: pb019 at csc.albany.edu (Partha Banerjee)

>                             DIWALI
>
>( AASHWAYUJA KRISHNA CHATURDASHI TO KAARTIKA SHUKLA DWITEEYAA )
>The 14th Day of the dark half of Aashwayuja to the 2nd day of bright half of
>Kaartik
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>If there is one occasion which is all joy and all jubilation for one and all -
>the young and the old, men and women - for the entire Hindu world, it is
>Deepaavali - the Festival of Lights. Even the humblest of huts will be lighted
>by a row of earthern lamps. Crackers resound and light up the earth and the
>sky. The faces of boys and girls flow with a rare charm in their dazzling hues
>and colors. Illumination - Deepotsavas - in temples and all sacred places of
>worship and one the banks of rivers symbolize the scattering of spiritual
>radiance all round from these holy centres. The radiant sight of everybody
>adorned with new and bright clothes, especially ladies decorated with the best
>of ornaments, captures the social mood at its happiest.

---
-My response:

-This description of the festivities, however grandiose and utopian, is
-rather one-sided and does not depict the way many poorer communities in
-India spend the Diwali times. There are millions of families in India where
-no lamps are lit, no crackers are cracked, and no ornaments are worn.

        Only because of poverty, no other reason. But
        even they go to temples, community gatherings
        etc which are free.

-Diwali (and many other Indian festivities) has been synonymous with the
-eclectic upper hierarchy of the Hindu religion for ages.  In most Hindu
-temples, the so-called "untouchables" would not even be allowed to enter to
-celebrate this or any other such eclectic festivities -- whether religious
-or socio-cultural.

        This is an odious lie. In the overwhelming number
        of temples ( I don't say all because it is difficult
        to be aware of the conditions in all the millions
        of temples ) NO ONE is prohibited from entering.
        I have visited hundreds of temples in all parts
        of the country, and there is no such prohibition.
        This lie calls into question everything that
        this author says, considering this is so easy
        to verify and refute.

---
>
>And all this illumination and fireworks, joy and festivity, is to signify the
>victory of divine forces over those of wickedness.

---

-My response:

-Again, this is vague. Who is the divine and who is the wicked? The Hindu
-religion (as practiced and imposed-upon by the Brahminical order)
-deliberately confuses this important issue. The so-called elite of the
-upper castes who have traditionally been ruling India and Hinduism: are
-they divine? Are the so-called "Indo-European Aryas" divine? And the
-"non-Aryas" (including the non-Hindus) wicked? That's the much-publicized
-prevalent concept. In Ramayana, the "non-Arya" "demon" king Ravana, who to

       Another lie, of course. "divine" and "wicked" have
        NOTHING TO DO with racial origins in the hindu
        religion. This is not only NOT a "much-publicized
        concept", I have never heard of it till this
        author sprang it from his fertile mind.

        A hilarious joke is to call Ravana non-aryan.
        This again shows how much Mr Banerjee knows
        about such matters. Ravana was a Brahmin;
        his grandfather was chief priest of the GODS.

        This man, with his pristine Aryan Brahmin
        origin, is shown as a wicked man , based
        only on his personal actions. Even his
        status as a devout worshipper of the Lord
        Shiva does not help him escape this
        castigation.

        This should once and for all nail the ignorant
        ranting of Mr Banerjee.

-me signifies nothing but human steadfastness and bravery, is killed by the
-"Arya"-therefore-"divine" Lord Rama where the latter resorts to any
-possible deceptive and deplorable tactics to conquer the land of Lanka (or
-Srilanka as we know it now).

        This means Mr Banerjee approves of kidnapping
        women, imprisoning them against their will,
        and attempting to kill the husband who tries to
        rescue his wife !
        And this moral paragon passes judgment on
        others' ethics !

        It is another lie that Sri Rama wanted to
        conquer Lanka just for landgrabbing. He
        would have not attempted war if Sita had
        been let go. After the war was concluded,
        he promptly left after picking up Sita,
        and there is NO evidence he ever visited
        Lanka again or that he left a single
        soldier there. So what nonsense is
        Mr Banerjee spouting here ?

        It is interesting that a kidnapper is
        praised, while the victim is abused.
        I have to wonder at the perversions of
        Mr Banerjee's mind.

-Lord Rama is glorified in Brahminical Hinduism and of course, Ravana is
-ridiculed to death (as is manifested by the ritualistic blazing of Ravana's
-kushaputtalika or straw icon).  The fundamentalist Hindu parties in India
-champion the causes of Lord Rama (however vague they may be) to exploit the
-unchallenging mindset of the Hindu electorate.

        As opposed to the scrambled mindset of Mr Banerjee
        which praises kidnappers and ridicules victims
        of crimes.

        It is not just the "fundamentalists" who
        "champion the cause of Rama"; every pious
        and devout hindu accepts Sri Rama in
        his heart as the personification of
        divinity.

What do Indology scholars do in this intellectual paradox? Would be
-interesting to see.

        The only paradox is why a criminal is praised
        and a victim who heroically rendered justice
        is abused; why a Brahmin is called non-Aryan;
        and why so ignorant a man as Mr Banerjee
        chooses to display his ignorance. Other than
        this , there is none.

---
>In northern parts of Bharat, Deepaavali is associated with the return of Sri
>Rama to Ayodhya after vanquishing Raavana. The people of Ayodhya, overwhelmed
>with joy, welcomed Rama through jubilation and illumination of the entire
>capital. Well has it been said that while Sri Rama unified the north and south
>of our country, Sri Krishna unified the west and the east. Sri Rama and Sri
>Krishna together therefore symbolize the grand unity of our motherland.

---
My response:

-See the problem here. Rama, according to Mr. Seshadri, unified the north
-and south. In reality, he killed the mighty Ravana and extended the "Aryan"
-Hindu invasion to the south.  All voices of dissent were silenced.  All

        But Ravana was already a Aryan Hindu Brahmin long before
        Sri Rama showed up !!!! There goes your silly
        theory. Lanka was ALREADY aryanised before Rama's
        arrival ! There was NOTHING to extend.

-other ways to live in India were methodically discouraged.  Socio-religious
-conformity was forcefully imposed.  And, regarding the "grand unity of our

        Any proof, other than in your feverish mind ?
        What imposition ? What discouragement ?

-motherland", welcome to the indoctrination of the celebrated RSS and its
-daughter organizations BJP (the now-formidable Hindu right-wing political
-party), the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP)--the religious wing, or the
-Vivekananda Kendra--the social-work wing.

        I have to congratulate you, then, on
        getting indoctrinated without the help
        of any organization then :-)

        What is your reason for writing so many
        easily-disprovable lies ? Don't you have
        any regard for your reputation ? Do you
        really not mind getting labelled as
        a weak-brained liar ?

-See the incoherence (quite expectedly so) among the various Indian
-festivities around Diwali.  In Bengal, for instance, Durga Puja is now the
-most-celebrated customary festival, particularly in the cities where the
-upper-caste affluent live (in villages, they have their own celebrations,
-e.g., the Raas-Lila of Sri Chaitanya who through his socio-religious
-movements broke down the barriers of the degenerate caste-system and
-brought about interreligious faith).

        I see. If there is uniformity, it is derided
        as "socio religious imposition"; if there
        is diversity, it is called incoherence :-)

        You obviously don't mind being revealed as
        a mindless bigot, who will only say bad
        things about hindus, no matter what the
        facts are !

        Are you for diversity, or are you not ? :-)

        Yet another idiocy: cities are where the
        "affluent upper castes" live :-) Will
        nonsense never cease ?

However, Diwali, as we know it in Bengal, is the time when people worship
the Goddess Kali.  Kali is naked symbolizing disavowal of earthly objects
arguably also including the dogmas of orthodoxy. Kali is wild. Kali with
her "rakhshasi" companions dances in the "shmashan".  Kali breaks down all
the barriers.  The barriers imposed upon by the Hindu upper-caste
hierarchy.

To me, that's Diwali.

        The only sensible para in the farrago of nonsense
        and lies cooked up by Mr Banerjee. Try to break
        down the barriers of lies and hate and bigotry
        and ignorance and unreason that swirl in your
        mind, Mr Banerjee. May Kali mata help you there.

        Reflect why you hate women so much that you
        praise demons who kidnap them and harass
        them. If your wife is kidnapped and trapped
        in an island somewhere, perhaps you will
        see the depths of idiocy to which you have
        sunk in this post.

        Raghavendra   csr at wipro.com

_______________________________________________________________

         
 





From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA  Thu Oct  5 21:08:20 1995
From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (RAH)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 16:08:20 -0500
Subject: Q: URL addresses
Message-ID: <161227021053.23782.10501798912569443511.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I'm updating our Centre's Web page, again. I've tried one old and one new 
link that are giving me trouble. The old one is for the TITUS project on 
historical linguistics. I've tried these addresses:
	http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/home/ftp/pub/titus/public_html

and
	as above, but with watson in place of www.

The first address gives me the reply that "the location is not 
recognized". The second address gives me the reply that "the server does 
not have a DNS entry". 

The new address is the one for the Asian Studies Network Information 
Center and for the SAGAR journal put out at the University of Texas at 
Austin. The addresses I have for those are:
	
	http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic.html

and 

	http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/sagar/sagar.main.html

The response in each case is that I've got the wrong address. Thanks for 
any help that any of you may be able to give.

Bob Hueckstedt

Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages
Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba
Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada email: hueckst at cc.umanitoba.ca
fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797

 





From mitra at aecom.yu.edu  Thu Oct  5 20:14:04 1995
From: mitra at aecom.yu.edu (Joydeep Mitra)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 16:14:04 -0400
Subject: Divali
Message-ID: <161227021051.23782.4098341151789068138.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On the contrary, I found Mr. P Banerjee's discourse fairly complete in terms of
depicting the 'whole' story -inclusive of people from all levels of prosperity.

On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, Venkatesha Murthy wrote:

> I  felt the response by Mr.Partha was out of context. The original poster
> requested for stories and how diwali is celebrated.  If some one asks, "how
> christmas is celebrated", you say - people decorate christmas tree,
> and have good time with friends and family members. That is not the place to
> talk of poverty and the fact that poor christians do not get to celebrate!
> Poverty prevents people in all religions to celebrate the festivities.
 





From bhagavam at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu  Thu Oct  5 23:51:37 1995
From: bhagavam at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (manu bhagavan)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 18:51:37 -0500
Subject: Q: URL addresses
Message-ID: <161227021058.23782.12841206751140204393.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dr. Hueckstedt and other members of the Indology list:

The URLS you have posted below for ASNIC and SAGAR are both correct and 
are both working.  I just checked both addresses, and they seem fine.  

As I am not sure what the trouble is, I have forwarded this 
message on to <kamal at asnic.utexas.edu>, the Asian Studies Internet 
Coordinator at UT.

Has anyone else had similar problems?

Manu Bhagavan
Editor-in-Chief, SAGAR: South Asia Graduate Research Journal
On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, RAH wrote:

> I'm updating our Centre's Web page, again. I've tried one old and one new 
> link that are giving me trouble. The old one is for the TITUS project on 
> historical linguistics. I've tried these addresses:
> 	http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/home/ftp/pub/titus/public_html
> 
> and
> 	as above, but with watson in place of www.
> 
> The first address gives me the reply that "the location is not 
> recognized". The second address gives me the reply that "the server does 
> not have a DNS entry". 
> 
> The new address is the one for the Asian Studies Network Information 
> Center and for the SAGAR journal put out at the University of Texas at 
> Austin. The addresses I have for those are:
> 	
> 	http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic.html
> 
> and 
> 
> 	http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/sagar/sagar.main.html
> 
> The response in each case is that I've got the wrong address. Thanks for 
> any help that any of you may be able to give.
> 
> Bob Hueckstedt
> 
> Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages
> Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba
> Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada email: hueckst at cc.umanitoba.ca
> fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797
> 
>  
> 
 





From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Fri Oct  6 01:13:26 1995
From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 21:13:26 -0400
Subject: Q: URL addresses
Message-ID: <161227021060.23782.16309440141548768330.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



This URL *always* for me (on Netscape) for the TITUS project:


http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/home/ftp/pub/titus/public_html/
 





From magier at columbia.edu  Fri Oct  6 03:23:19 1995
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 23:23:19 -0400
Subject: Q: URL addresses
Message-ID: <161227021061.23782.3145949207355643069.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> The old one is for the TITUS project on 
> historical linguistics. I've tried these addresses:
> 	http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/home/ftp/pub/titus/public_html

I seem to have no trouble connecting to this adress. The server in
Frankfurt actually re-routes the connection to the new url (with
watson), so that your browser indicates that you're connected to the
latter (even though you typed in the former). When I directly type in
the 'watson' url, again, I have no difficulty connecting to this
address.
Perhaps your network's connection to the Domain Name Serv er (DNS) was
down, and so failed to look up the numerical (IP) address for the
named host...

> The new address is the one for the Asian Studies Network Information 
> Center and for the SAGAR journal put out at the University of Texas at 
> Austin. The addresses I have for those are:
> 	
> 	http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic.html
> 
> and 
> 
> 	http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/sagar/sagar.main.html

Again, I have no trouble connecting to these. Must be something wrong
with the nextwork or DNS connection at your end.

David Magier
 





From pslvax!sadhu at ucsd.edu  Fri Oct  6 11:49:17 1995
From: pslvax!sadhu at ucsd.edu (pslvax!sadhu at ucsd.edu)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 04:49:17 -0700
Subject: Kural Installment 232
Message-ID: <161227021082.23782.1239310078892457908.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Verse 685

The good which an ambassador procures derives from succinct speech
Cheerful conversation and avoidance of argument.

Verse 686

An envoy is learned, eloquently persuasive, unfearing of the fiercest
Stare and understanding of what fits the moment.

 





From Reganch at aol.com  Fri Oct  6 11:43:38 1995
From: Reganch at aol.com (Reganch at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 07:43:38 -0400
Subject: Q: URL addresses
Message-ID: <161227021069.23782.10050972765917455380.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have also tried the address http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/html and received
the error message "unknown addressee."
 





From lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu  Fri Oct  6 15:28:44 1995
From: lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu (Lance Nelson)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 08:28:44 -0700
Subject: Hindu-Christian Studies
Message-ID: <161227021076.23782.13092538311988965922.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Announcement:

Society for Hindu-Christian Studies

Annual Meeting, in conjunction with the Annual Meeting of the American 
Academy of Religion/Society of Biblical Literature

Saturday, November 18th, 1995
9:00-11:30
Philadelphia Marriott Hotel
Room 404
1201 Market Street
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107 USA

9:00-10:30

I. Discussion: "Hindu Polytheism - how are we to understand it?"
Vasudha Narayanan will make an introductory presentation, and several 
members of the Society will respond, to open a general discussion.  For 
those who wish to do some [optional] reading in advance of the session, a 
small packet is available in advance from Frank Clooney, S.J. (Theology 
Department, Boston College, Chestnut Hill, MA 02167; [617 552 3884])

10:30-11:30

II. Annual Business Meeting

For information on the Society, contact Lance Nelson 
(lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu) or write:

Society for Hindu-Christian Studies
c/o Centre for Studies in Religion and Society
University of Victoria
P.O. Box 3045
Victoria, B.C.
Canada V8W 3P4

---------------------------
Lance Nelson
Religious Studies    
University of San Diego
lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu
---------------------------


 





From kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu  Fri Oct  6 13:46:00 1995
From: kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu (Kamal Adhikary)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 08:46:00 -0500
Subject: Q: URL addresses (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227021074.23782.8402696302446962851.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear Dr. Hueckstedt,
	I got a forwarded message that you had trouble getting access to 
ASNIC.  I do not know how you got the address.  It was a wrong address.  
Our correct address is:
	http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/index.html

In the address cited in your message the word "index" was left out. 
Please type the above address and see if you still have any problem.  I 
am sure you will have no problem.  Please let me know how you find now.  I 
would also be grateful to you if you would suggest how we can make our page 
more useful.  Thank you very much.  

Sincerely, 
Kamal Adhikary
_______________
Kamal R. Adhikary, Ph.D.
Internet Coordinator, Asian Studies
UT, Austin, Texas 78712
Tel:512-475-6034
Email:kamal at asnic.utexas.edu

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:51:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: manu bhagavan <bhagavam at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk
Cc: Members of the list <indology at liverpool.ac.uk>,
    kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Q: URL addresses

Dear Dr. Hueckstedt and other members of the Indology list:

The URLS you have posted below for ASNIC and SAGAR are both correct and 
are both working.  I just checked both addresses, and they seem fine.  

As I am not sure what the trouble is, I have forwarded this 
message on to <kamal at asnic.utexas.edu>, the Asian Studies Internet 
Coordinator at UT.

Has anyone else had similar problems?

Manu Bhagavan
Editor-in-Chief, SAGAR: South Asia Graduate Research Journal
On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, RAH wrote:

> I'm updating our Centre's Web page, again. I've tried one old and one new 
> link that are giving me trouble. The old one is for the TITUS project on 
> historical linguistics. I've tried these addresses:
> 	http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/home/ftp/pub/titus/public_html
> 
> and
> 	as above, but with watson in place of www.
> 
> The first address gives me the reply that "the location is not 
> recognized". The second address gives me the reply that "the server does 
> not have a DNS entry". 
> 
> The new address is the one for the Asian Studies Network Information 
> Center and for the SAGAR journal put out at the University of Texas at 
> Austin. The addresses I have for those are:
> 	
> 	http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic.html
> 
> and 
> 
> 	http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/sagar/sagar.main.html
> 
> The response in each case is that I've got the wrong address. Thanks for 
> any help that any of you may be able to give.
> 
> Bob Hueckstedt
> 
> Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages
> Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba
> Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada email: hueckst at cc.umanitoba.ca
> fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797
> 
>  
> 

 





From kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu  Fri Oct  6 13:50:23 1995
From: kamal at link.lanic.utexas.edu (Kamal Adhikary)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 08:50:23 -0500
Subject: Q: URL addresses
Message-ID: <161227021071.23782.10943459240003296372.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


The ASNIC address given in the original message was indeed wrong.  Please 
note that the correct address is: 
	http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/index.html

I believe  you will have no problem with the corrected address. Thanks.
Kamal

_______________
Kamal R. Adhikary, Ph.D.
Internet Coordinator, Asian Studies
UT, Austin, Texas 78712
Tel:512-475-6034
Email:kamal at asnic.utexas.edu

On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, manu bhagavan wrote:

> Dear Dr. Hueckstedt and other members of the Indology list:
> 
> The URLS you have posted below for ASNIC and SAGAR are both correct and 
> are both working.  I just checked both addresses, and they seem fine.  
> 
> As I am not sure what the trouble is, I have forwarded this 
> message on to <kamal at asnic.utexas.edu>, the Asian Studies Internet 
> Coordinator at UT.
> 
> Has anyone else had similar problems?
> 
> Manu Bhagavan
> Editor-in-Chief, SAGAR: South Asia Graduate Research Journal
> On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, RAH wrote:
> 
> > I'm updating our Centre's Web page, again. I've tried one old and one new 
> > link that are giving me trouble. The old one is for the TITUS project on 
> > historical linguistics. I've tried these addresses:
> > 	http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/home/ftp/pub/titus/public_html
> > 
> > and
> > 	as above, but with watson in place of www.
> > 
> > The first address gives me the reply that "the location is not 
> > recognized". The second address gives me the reply that "the server does 
> > not have a DNS entry". 
> > 
> > The new address is the one for the Asian Studies Network Information 
> > Center and for the SAGAR journal put out at the University of Texas at 
> > Austin. The addresses I have for those are:
> > 	
> > 	http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic.html
> > 
> > and 
> > 
> > 	http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/sagar/sagar.main.html
> > 
> > The response in each case is that I've got the wrong address. Thanks for 
> > any help that any of you may be able to give.
> > 
> > Bob Hueckstedt
> > 
> > Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages
> > Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba
> > Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada email: hueckst at cc.umanitoba.ca
> > fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797
> > 
> >  
> > 
> 
 





From kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za  Fri Oct  6 07:25:38 1995
From: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za (Pratap Kumar)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 09:25:38 +0200
Subject: Hinduism and Buddhism/Jainism
Message-ID: <161227021063.23782.1399771157744235646.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear Colleagues:

There seems to be a widely held perception that Buddhism and Jainism are 
"off-shoots" of Hinduism and developed their own metaphyisics in reaction 
to the Vedic tradition.  A colleague of mine holds this view very 
strongly.  I tend to think that it is an erroneous way of reading the 
history of Indian thought.  Both the Buddhist and the Jain traditions, 
like other systems of Indian Philosophy seem to have their independent 
sources of origin and have reacted to the Braahmana tradition.  They have 
perhaps more in common with the Sramana and Vraatya traditions.  I hope 
others would comment on this and clear some of the misreadings of the 
history of Indian thought.


Pratap Kumar
Department of Hindu Studies and Indian Philosophy
Univ. of Durban-Westville
Durban
South Africa 
 


>?From P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk 06 95 Oct EDT 10:09:00
Date: 06 Oct 95 10:09:00 EDT
From: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk
Subject: re: Hinduism and Buddhism/Jainism
Reply-To: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Pratap Kumar raised the issue of Hinduism and Buddhism/Jainism
I think that one of the problems with the view he opposes is the term 
'Hinduism'. It seems safer to me to use Hinduism to refer to later 
developments in India, perhaps not before the period of epic literature say 
ca. 2nd century BC.
Hence there is no way that Buddhism and Jainism can be offshoots of 
Hinduism.
Moreover, while some aspects of the sramanic traditions, including Buddhist 
and Jain traditions, do reflect attacks on for instance Brahminical ritual 
observances, I do not believe that most aspects of sramanic traditions can 
be explained in this way.
Also I have never seen a Buddhist or Jain text that is a criticism of 
Upanisadic thought, this to me suggests that the popularity of the Upanisads 
most post date early Buddhism and Mahavira. So it does not seem that 
Jacobi's view that Jainism is a popularised form of Upanisadic thought can 
be correct.
Peter
 





From pslvax!sadhu at ucsd.edu  Fri Oct  6 16:55:34 1995
From: pslvax!sadhu at ucsd.edu (pslvax!sadhu at ucsd.edu)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 09:55:34 -0700
Subject: Hinduism and Buddhism/Jainism
Message-ID: <161227021087.23782.8219893048116567616.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

/ FROM:  Pratap Kumar <pixie.udw.ac.za!kumar at ucsd.UUCP>, Oct 6  8:34 1995
| ABOUT: Hinduism and Buddhism/Jainism
|
| 
| Dear Colleagues:
| 
| There seems to be a widely held perception that Buddhism and Jainism are 
| "off-shoots" of Hinduism and developed their own metaphyisics in reaction 
| to the Vedic tradition.  A colleague of mine holds this view very 
| strongly.  I tend to think that it is an erroneous way of reading the 
| history of Indian thought.  Both the Buddhist and the Jain traditions, 
| like other systems of Indian Philosophy seem to have their independent 
| sources of origin and have reacted to the Braahmana tradition.  They have 
| perhaps more in common with the Sramana and Vraatya traditions.  I hope 
| others would comment on this and clear some of the misreadings of the 
| history of Indian thought.
| 

sorry, disagree.  both these sprang up in the context of a hindu
culture.  they all share many facets in common.  differences, true,
but, there are just as many differences between various sects that are
considered part of hinduism.  remember, gautama was a hindu prince.
in our town, the jains come to our hindu temple and worship beside us.
the spiritual men amongst all these traditions see more similarity
than difference.

aum aum
sadhu
 





From csr at jupiter.wipro.com  Fri Oct  6 02:44:28 1995
From: csr at jupiter.wipro.com (csr at jupiter.wipro.com)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 10:44:28 +0800
Subject: Diwali
Message-ID: <161227021084.23782.15735763269432766234.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear Dominik,

I apologize for the rough language in my posting. However the contents
remain very much true. Also, I would like to hear from the scholars
in the list about Ramayana and other issues being discussed.

- Raghavendra.  csr at wipro.com
 





From vidya at cco.caltech.edu  Fri Oct  6 18:08:52 1995
From: vidya at cco.caltech.edu (vidya at cco.caltech.edu)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 11:08:52 -0700
Subject: Hinduism and Buddhism/Jainism
Message-ID: <161227021104.23782.10249366568655135214.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Pratap Kumar wrote - 

> history of Indian thought.  Both the Buddhist and the Jain traditions,
> like other systems of Indian Philosophy seem to have their independent
> sources of origin and have reacted to the Braahmana tradition.  They have
> perhaps more in common with the Sramana and Vraatya traditions.  I hope

Firstly, it is difficult to say what exactly is "Hindu", especially in the
5th century BC. One can talk of Vedic ritualism and the upanishadic 
thought, but not of Hinduism in the modern sense. 

That said, it should be fairly clear that more than Buddhism, it is Jainism
that is more firmly rooted in the SramaNa tradition. It must be remembered
that Mahavira Jina is counted as the 24th tIrthAnkara from very early times.
In contrast, Buddhism is not found before Gautama Buddha. The idea of there
being many bodhisattvas before him is a late concept, coming from mahAyAna
times. 

In contrast, more than Jainism, it is Buddhism that has developed its 
metaphysics in reaction to the "orthodox" Vedic tradition. The denial of
the Atman is the strongest feature of Buddhism that sets it on a head-on
collision course with the Brahmanic tradition. Jainism, on the other hand
admits many Atmans. 

I am not at all sure if any connection with vrAtyas can be postulated for
either Jainism or Buddhism. Both these traditions call themselves "Arya"
and contrast fairly strongly with contemporary groups like the AjIvikas. 

S. Vidyasankar

 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Fri Oct  6 11:11:17 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 11:11:17 +0000
Subject: Diwali
Message-ID: <161227021067.23782.4822902435904177488.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear Mr Raghavendra,

You do not agree with Mr Banerjee, and I understand that issues such as
those that have been raised do -- often with justification -- lead to
heated discussions and strong feelings.

However, the INDOLOGY group prides itself on its good manners and
scholarly conduct.  Your criticisms of the poster are insulting and
unacceptable in scholarly debate.  As is usual when emotional language
is used, we learn is a great deal about your angry feelings, but less
about the issue under discussion.

This type of exchange will not be tolerated in this discussion group.
If you (and others) are unable to discuss matters politely, INDOLOGY
will be closed down in its present form.

It is also important to keep the discussion focussed on the indological
issues for which the INDOLOGY service is provided.  I would remind all
members that these issues emphatically do not include contemporary
politics.

Dominik Wujastyk


Mr Ragavendra said:
>  This is an odious lie....
>  This lie calls into question everything that this author says, ...
>  Another lie, of course. ...
>  I have never heard of it till this author sprang it from his fertile mind.
>  This should once and for all nail the ignorant ranting of Mr Banerjee.
>  And this moral paragon passes judgment on  others' ethics ! ...
>  ... So what nonsense is Mr Banerjee spouting here ?
>  ... I have to wonder at the perversions of
>  Mr Banerjee's mind.

-- 

Dominik Wujastyk,
Founder of INDOLOGY,
Wellcome Institute,
183 Euston Road,
London NW1 2BE.

FAX: +44 171 611 8545
email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk

For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page:
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html

 





From mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com  Fri Oct  6 18:37:05 1995
From: mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com (mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 11:37:05 -0700
Subject: Hinduism and Buddhism/Jainism
Message-ID: <161227021095.23782.1034665069585747818.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


P. Friedlander writes:
* Also I have never seen a Buddhist or Jain text that is a criticism of 
* Upanisadic thought, this to me suggests that the popularity of the Upanisads 
* most post date early Buddhism and Mahavira.
* 

But since there is also no Upanishadic text that is
a criticism of Buddhism or Jainism, could we not also
come to the opposite conclusion?

I don't think either conclusion is valid based just
on these facts.

Mani
 





From Jerry.Losty at london.british-library.uk  Fri Oct  6 11:07:00 1995
From: Jerry.Losty at london.british-library.uk (Jerry.Losty at london.british-library.uk)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 12:07:00 +0100
Subject: Catalogue serial numbers and manuscript oliation
Message-ID: <161227021065.23782.7728417361833183466.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Peter Friedlander and Dominik Wujastyk raise a couple of technical problems of
manuscript catalogues. Peter asked: My question is this, which system do you
find preferable or easier to use? [I  ask this becaus I am about to publish a
catalogue of Hindi manuscripts in the library here and wonder which system to
adopt.]

Domink clearly prefers manuscripts to be known by their library accession
numbers, as indeed they normally are, but the problems  of indexing in a
catalogue will always require a serial number to be used as well.  Good design
should make the distinction clear.  Communicating this from the Library with the
most complicated and confusing series of oriental manuscript numberings in the
known world (i.e. British Library, Oriental and India Office Collections) I
recommend prospective purchasers of microfilms and photographs to cite both
catalogue serial numbers and manuscript accession numbers in their orders so
that the clerks who process them can differentiate between the two.


Dominik also raised the question of foliation, whether individual leaves of a
manuscript should be cited by the original scribe's  foliation or by the
library's own foliation, which will obviously differ from the original where
there are leaves missing; or in a  compendium volume containing several
manuscripts individually  foliated by their sribes. Here the main issue is
surely a  practical one.  Big western libraries with large collections have
clerks processing photographic and reprographic orders who do not know the
languages or the scripts concerned. If scholars want to  receive the correct
copies or not to mislead others, they would do well to cite the individual
folios by the library's own system. Where a manuscript is 'unfoliated' as in
most Indian collections then obviously the original scribal foliation  will have
to be referred to; but of course in India the numerals  are (hopefully) readable
by those who have to deal with them.


jerry.losty at bl.uk


>
>
 





From bhagavam at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu  Fri Oct  6 17:33:37 1995
From: bhagavam at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (manu bhagavan)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 12:33:37 -0500
Subject: Q: URL addresses
Message-ID: <161227021092.23782.18409034771639429610.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In addition to the URL just posted in Kamal's address, I think the one 
posted below will also work if the slash between asnic and htl is 
corrected to a <.>. So:
http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic.html

Manu Bhagavan


On Fri, 6 Oct 1995 Reganch at aol.com wrote:

> I have also tried the address http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/html and received
> the error message "unknown addressee."
>  
> 
 





From imj at u.washington.edu  Fri Oct  6 19:51:09 1995
From: imj at u.washington.edu (Irene Joshi)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 12:51:09 -0700
Subject: Overseas loans
Message-ID: <161227021097.23782.12232973439282982201.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This is in response to a query by Allen Thrasher regarding US libraries 
loaning overseas.
The University of Washington Libraries, Seattle which owns an important 
collection of South Asian materials does, through its Resource Sharing 
Program, loan material from its circulating collections to 
libraries overseas.  In addition to the usual fees, all material is 
shipped airmail which adds to the costs.
Our catalog is available through the South Asia Gopher
columbianet.columbia.edu  (Clioplus etc.)  
For further information on loans please contact Resource Sharing
206-685-8049 or librss at u.washington.edu
 





From apandey at u.washington.edu  Fri Oct  6 20:15:41 1995
From: apandey at u.washington.edu (Anshuman Pandey)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 13:15:41 -0700
Subject: Hinduism and Buddhism/Jainism
Message-ID: <161227021100.23782.18109103908373801245.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Sadhunathan Nadesan wrote:

> | There seems to be a widely held perception that Buddhism and Jainism are 
> | "off-shoots" of Hinduism and developed their own metaphyisics in reaction 
> | to the Vedic tradition.  A colleague of mine holds this view very 
> | strongly.  I tend to think that it is an erroneous way of reading the 
> | history of Indian thought.  Both the Buddhist and the Jain traditions, 
> | like other systems of Indian Philosophy seem to have their independent 
> | sources of origin and have reacted to the Braahmana tradition.  They have 
> | perhaps more in common with the Sramana and Vraatya traditions.  I hope 
> | others would comment on this and clear some of the misreadings of the 
> | history of Indian thought.
> | 
> 
> sorry, disagree.  both these sprang up in the context of a hindu
> culture.  they all share many facets in common.  differences, true,
> but, there are just as many differences between various sects that are
> considered part of hinduism.  remember, gautama was a hindu prince.
> in our town, the jains come to our hindu temple and worship beside us.
> the spiritual men amongst all these traditions see more similarity
> than difference.


Don't the philosophies of jainism and buddhism fall into the category of 
"shramanic" philosophies, whereas as vedic hinduism falls into the 
category of "brahmanic"?

Did not the vedic vipras/brahmanas have trouble with the shramanic 
ascetics in their refusal to honor the brahmanic yajnas, etc?

It seems that strains of jainism and buddhism were prevalent, including 
mentions of tirthankars and boddhisatvas, during the early vedic age.

Anshuman Pandey

 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Oct  6 18:08:05 1995
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 14:08:05 -0400
Subject: advertisement for a Southeast Asian lit & culture position
Message-ID: <161227021088.23782.6674718556649080827.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,
	Please forward the following advertisement for a position in 
Southeast Asian literature and culture at the University of Michigan to 
interested individuals, institutions, and networks.  Thanks.

	Madhav Deshpande


The Department of Asian Languages and Cultures, University of Michigan, 
seeks candidates for a tenure-track position in Southeast Asian 
literature and culture (including cultural studies, literary criticism, 
history, performance studies, art, religion, folklore etc.) beginning in 
the fall term, 1996.  Rank:  Assistant Professor; possible senior 
appointment.  Applicants should have a Ph.D. (or advanced candidacy) in 
an appropriate humanities or social science discipline, native or 
near-native competence in a Southeast Asian language and a deep 
understanding of and ability to interpret the literatures and the 
cultures of the region in a wider academic context.  Teaching duties will 
include graduate seminars that explore issues in cultural studies or 
literary theory from an Asian or East-West perspective, undergraduate 
courses on the literary, religious, and historical cultures of the 
region, and upper-level courses in which students read and interpret 
indigenous texts.  We seek a person with evidence of excellence in 
undergraduate teaching and one with broad comparative and 
interdisciplinary interests who can integrate Southeast Asia within the 
wider humanities curriculum and eventually assist in creating a graduate 
program in Southeast Asian Literatures and Cultures.  Please send letter, 
CV, at least three letters of recommendation, and evidence of research 
interests by February 15, 1996, to the Chair of the Southeast Asia Search 
Committee, Department of Asian Languages and Cultures, 3070 Frieze 
Building, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1285.  Phone (313) 
764-8286, Fax (313) 747-0157.  The University of Michigan is an equal 
opportunity, affirmative action employer.

Questions regarding this position may be addressed to Prof. Madhav Deshpande.
	Phone: (313) 747-2159, or
	e-mail:  mmdesh at umich.edu
 





From magier at columbia.edu  Fri Oct  6 18:12:07 1995
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 14:12:07 -0400
Subject: Q: URL addresses
Message-ID: <161227021090.23782.149528708041973297.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> I have also tried the address http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/html and
> received the error message "unknown addressee."            ^
                                                             ^
That's because you have typo here: it's supposed to be a     ^
period there ("asnic.html") instead of a slash...............|

David Magier          

 





From vmurthy at informix.com  Fri Oct  6 21:37:29 1995
From: vmurthy at informix.com (vmurthy at informix.com)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 14:37:29 -0700
Subject: Hinduism and Buddhism/Jainism
Message-ID: <161227021102.23782.1170808988966403118.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> From: Anshuman Pandey <apandey at u.washington.edu>
> 
> Don't the philosophies of jainism and buddhism fall into the category of 
> "shramanic" philosophies, whereas as vedic hinduism falls into the 
> category of "brahmanic"?
> 
> Did not the vedic vipras/brahmanas have trouble with the shramanic 
> ascetics in their refusal to honor the brahmanic yajnas, etc?
> 
> It seems that strains of jainism and buddhism were prevalent, including 
> mentions of tirthankars and boddhisatvas, during the early vedic age.
> 
> Anshuman Pandey
> 

Both 'sharmana' and 'vraatya' traditions have basis in  Rigveda Samhita.
There are some differences  among all the sects of hinduism and is 
not unique to jainism and budhism.

 





From tart at iastate.edu  Fri Oct  6 20:13:15 1995
From: tart at iastate.edu (Gary M Tartakov)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 15:13:15 -0500
Subject: Divali
Message-ID: <161227021099.23782.14550137041371567758.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I want to support Banerjee's fuller development of the meaning of
Divali.

It is important not to idealize any culture in such a way that we
suppose that all have the same experience or that only the elite
experience is meaningful.  As long a Brahmanical ceremonies include
serious caste restrictions we can't say this is how they are celebrated
unless we indicate the restrictions on who is allowed  celebrate them
and who is not.  
 





From jds10 at cus.cam.ac.uk  Fri Oct  6 15:34:04 1995
From: jds10 at cus.cam.ac.uk (John D. Smith)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 16:34:04 +0100
Subject: Update on ftp server
Message-ID: <161227021079.23782.17818493599419923264.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Since I made the existence of my ftp server known via Indology on July 3
of this year, 1440 file transfers have been made from it -- the greatest
bulk of them Mahabharata text, but with the Ramayana text, the fonts and
the programs following hard on its heels. This note is simply to inform
you (a) that since then I have made substantial further improvements to
the Mahabharata text (though perfection remains a long way off); (b) that 
there are one or two new programs, including a simple metrical analyser; 
(c) that there is a new section offering help to Unix users wishing to 
make use of the CSX encoding; and (d) that the PC versions of the Norman 
fonts for accented Roman have been modified to circumvent an infelicity 
in Word for Windows. The original Macintosh versions of these fonts are 
also now available for anonymous ftp download.

The server is bombay.oriental.cam.ac.uk, and the material is stored in
directories branching out from /pub/john. It can also be reached via
Indology WWW page: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html.

Problems by email to jds10 at cam.ac.uk.

--
John Smith             Dr J. D. Smith, Faculty of Oriental Studies,
jds10 at cam.ac.uk        Sidgwick Avenue, Cambridge CB3 9DA
                       Tel. 01223 335140   Fax 01223 335110

 





From mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk  Fri Oct  6 17:02:31 1995
From: mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 18:02:31 +0100
Subject: Hinduism and Buddhism/Jainism
Message-ID: <161227021080.23782.14833852122188209310.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Peter Friedlander writes:

>Pratap Kumar raised the issue of Hinduism and Buddhism/Jainism
>I think that one of the problems with the view he opposes is the term
>'Hinduism'. It seems safer to me to use Hinduism to refer to later
>developments in India, perhaps not before the period of epic literature say
>ca. 2nd century BC.

I would have thought of a rather later date than this, but I agree with the
sentiment.

>Hence there is no way that Buddhism and Jainism can be offshoots of
>Hinduism.

All three are no doubt the product of rather complex mutual influences
within Indian religion as a whole.

>Moreover, while some aspects of the sramanic traditions, including Buddhist
>and Jain traditions, do reflect attacks on for instance Brahminical ritual
>observances, I do not believe that most aspects of sramanic traditions can
>be explained in this way.

Agreed.

>Also I have never seen a Buddhist or Jain text that is a criticism of
>Upanisadic thought, this to me suggests that the popularity of the Upanisads
>most post date early Buddhism and Mahavira. So it does not seem that
>Jacobi's view that Jainism is a popularised form of Upanisadic thought can
>be correct.

Although I don't subscribe to the view here attributed to Jacobi, this
perhaps goes too far. In recent years both K.R. Norman and Richard Gombrich
have written articles pointing out specific Pali suttas criticising various
Upani.sads and Braahma.nas.

Lance Cousins

MANCHESTER, UK
Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk


 





From apandey at u.washington.edu  Sat Oct  7 01:19:19 1995
From: apandey at u.washington.edu (Anshuman Pandey)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 18:19:19 -0700
Subject: Any distinction between "yoga" and "marga"?
Message-ID: <161227021107.23782.5381072900695016130.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Members,

Are the four "yogas" known as bhakti, jnana, karma, and raja, actually 
"margas" and not "yogas"? Should the four paths be properly called 
bhakti, jnana, karma, and the yoga margas, or is the term interchangable?

Then, into the above scheme, where do such yogas as kundalini, kriya, 
hatha, and sahaja fit? Would these serve as subsets of yoga marga?

Any clarification is greatly appreciated!

Anshuman Pandey

 





From n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de  Fri Oct  6 23:58:57 1995
From: n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de (n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 95 00:58:57 +0100
Subject: Divali
Message-ID: <161227021105.23782.6387096746118970168.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Gary M. Tartokov wrote
>I want to support Banerjee's fuller development of the meaning of
>Divali....>

>It is important not to idealise any culture in such a way that we
>suppose that all have the same experience or that only the elite
>experience is meaningful. 

I very much accept the above proposition  - that idealising "Indian Culture" is 
not desirable. 
However, how far the equation of Aryan and Brahmin on the one hand 
 and Non-Aryan and Dravidian on the other is scholarly? Apart from this 
posting of Banerjee, 
there was also the talk about Indian "caste system", in one of the 
threads on poverty ( - which I read quite late, and to which I therefore 
I did not feel like  contributing.) The jAti - is it a "system" in the sense 
that there are Brahmins restricting others from celebrating something 
as the following sentence implies?

> As long a Brahmanical ceremonies include
>serious caste restrictions we can't say this is how they are celebrated
>unless we indicate the restrictions on who is allowed  celebrate them
>and who is not.  
> 
There is and there was certainly hierarchy in Indian society, and also
 all sort of cruelty oppression and what not. But there were and there are 
 lots of horizontal groupings with  lots and lots of rivalry. What and how 
should
 one understand phrases like 
> The Hindu
religion (as practised and imposed-upon by the Brahminical order)<?(Bannerjee)

How far the so called 'Hindu religion' is that of 'Brahminical Order' 
(whatever that may mean)?. I belong to 'brahmin' jAti, but in my school
 days neither I nor my father knew that we were supposed to be 'Hindus' 
(evidence: when I had to fill up the admission form to the high school,
 I asked my father, what I should write in the column, ?religion'; 
he was not quite uneducated person, but still he didn't know the
 answer 'Hindu' for this question. At least when it comes to "caste system"
and talking about the supposed "Hindu religion", empirical issues do not appear
 to bother very much the contributors to the Indology forum!). 
>From the existence of cruelty, misery, oppression etc. in India,  it does 
not follow
that such things are due to "Caste System" - if by that term is meant the 
existence of 
the practice of jAtis in India.  jAti -  in the
 sense of self-enclosed community not having interdining and inter-marriage
 with other communities - may exist on a horizontal level, and a ritual
self-enclosedness of a group is not the same as putting
  'restrictions' on celebrating any festival  by others in their
 own milieus, as the sentence from Tartokov implies.   
One may have criticisms of the milieu and practices 
connected with  ' jAti' - ( one may, for instance, take jAti practice to task
for just living side by side without attempting a 'social integration' 
and  'social fraternity').  But that has to be on  independent grounds than 
that of  'elitism', because it is doubtful whether jAti is a system of  
'elitism' at all.

Dr. B. Narahari Rao
F.R. 5.1. Philosophie
Unversitaet des Saarlandes,
Postfach 15 11 50,
D-66041 Saarbr?cken

 





From pslvax!siva!sadhu at UCSD.EDU  Sat Oct  7 07:57:25 1995
From: pslvax!siva!sadhu at UCSD.EDU (pslvax!siva!sadhu at UCSD.EDU)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 95 07:57:25 +0000
Subject: Any distinction between "yoga" and "marga"?
Message-ID: <161227021117.23782.4073745818001614563.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


|
|Members,
|
|Are the four "yogas" known as bhakti, jnana, karma, and raja, actually 
|"margas" and not "yogas"? Should the four paths be properly called 
|bhakti, jnana, karma, and the yoga margas, or is the term interchangable?
|
|Then, into the above scheme, where do such yogas as kundalini, kriya, 
|hatha, and sahaja fit? Would these serve as subsets of yoga marga?
|
|Any clarification is greatly appreciated!
|
|Anshuman Pandey
|
| 

Namaste:

Here's one point of view:

Any distinction between "yoga" and "marga"?.  Well, yes,
they are not exactly interchangeable, so at least, from the school of 
Saiva Siddhanta, there is.  But they are not exactly distinct either.
Marga is a path or state.  Yoga is union (a state), or also one of many
practices leading to union, and also, one of the margas.  The many
yoga practices can be done within all of the margas, but tend to blossom
in the order of the margas.  Hatha yoga, for example, is part of
good health, for any stage of life, but is also preparation for
meditation in the yoga marga.  

The four margas, or "stages" of the soul's evolution on the path to
enlightenment, which also are called padas, are:

	charya pada:  virtuous living, unselfish service.  includes
	karma yoga, or action without thought of reward.  also called
	dasa marga.

	kriya pada: worshipful sadhanas and joy of communion with
	God.  includes bhakti yoga, or devotional yoga.  also called
	satputra marga.

	yoga pada:  meditation (under the guidance of a guru), 
	includes raja yoga and kundalini yoga practices.  known
	also as the sakha marga.

	jnana pada: the state of the realized soul, the path of
	wisdom.

These 4 margas are not alternative ways, but cumulative ones, each
leading to the next.  The Tirumantiram affirms:

"Being the Life of life is splendorous jnana worship.  Beholding the Light
of life is great yoga worship.  Giving life by invocation is external
worship.  Expressing adoration is charya."

Regarding the number four: there are 4 margas but the term marga is used
elsewhere, such as the san marga, or path to truth (which is comprised
of the 4 padas), or the sadhana marga, the path of personal striving.
I speculate that the number 4 reoccurs often because it is useful in
describing many cycles of nature.  For example, the 4 seasons (well,
in india, there are more than 4, true), or the 4 yugas (sat, treta,
dvapara, and kali).  Then there are the 4 ashramas, or stages of individual
life, student, householder, senior advisor, and religious solitaire
(brahmachariya, grihastha, vanaprastha, sanyasa).  And we have
the 4 great dharmas: personal, social, racial, and universal (svadharma,
varna dharma, ashrama dharma and rita dharma).  So it may be said 
there are 4 great yogas, but also, that there are many more than 4.       

And I'm sure that there are many more than 4 points of view on
your question!  This is a case of the mind of man, observing and
organizing natural evolution into a system of classification,
rather than a set of absolutes.
 

Om Namasivaya
sadhu
 





From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Sat Oct  7 13:26:16 1995
From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 95 09:26:16 -0400
Subject: upaadhmaaniiya and jihvaamuuliiya
Message-ID: <161227021110.23782.3896492980639339769.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



Regarding the recent discussion on Upa. and Jih.:

1. Some information about the disappearance of both characters in 
inscriptions is found already in Buehler, Palaeography
-- a hunddred years ago.

2. Apart from what A. Parpola and M. Fujii reported from Southern MSS, 
the sign for Upa. is occasionally also found in printed texts from 
S.India  (but as far as I remember the symbol is used for both the Upa. 
and the Jih.)

3.Regarding Kashmir, both signs are of course used throughout the range 
of texts, except for some very recent MSS which are influenced by the 
N.Indian use of the Visarga.
In proper Kashmirian MS the  Visarga sign appears only at the end of a 
paragraph or at the end of verses: a true voiceless h in pause.


4. However, in Kashmirian pronunciation (both Vedic and other) both 
allophones of the Visarga/s/r have disappeard from quite some time.
They are usually  substituted, just as the Visarga, by lengthening 
the preceding vowel. Details in Yasuke Ikari (ed.), Studies on the  
Nilamata, Kyoto 1994. 

5. In some Vedic recitation both are retained. For example, the southern 
Kanvas say [naxkalpataam] where the northern Vajasaneyins say - in usual 
N/W. Indian style) -  [naha kalpataam].


We are in need of more investigations of this and similar problems for 
questions of editing and of Vedic/grammatical studies.

MW.
 





From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Sat Oct  7 13:56:50 1995
From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 95 09:56:50 -0400
Subject: Etymology of puujaa
Message-ID: <161227021114.23782.12966693818017263567.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Regarding the recent discussion.


Axel Michaels correctly stated Thieme's and Buehnemann's discussions of 
the word.

>>>
according to G. Buehnemann (Puujaa. Vienna 1988, p. 30) the etymology of
  puujaa has not yet been explained convincingly. Mayrhofer (Kurzgefasstes
  etymologisches Woerterbuch des Altindischen. 4 vols. Heidelberg 1965-80)
  suggest a derivation from Tamil puucu 'to smeare'. However, Thieme (Kleine
  Schriften, p. 792) connects the word with *pRn^ca kR 'to prepare a mixture
  for someone'. As far as I know there there is no final conclusion regarding
> its etymology. Buehnemann gives a fair account of the various positions.
>>>>


While the etymology remains unclear, it should be taken into accoun that 
the word, or rather the root, PUUJ occurs even in the Rgveda, though well 
hidden in an epithet of Indra: zacI-pUjana- 
This has nothing to do with Indra's (later!, "Homeric" wife, ZacI).

Further, the root occurs in names in Katha and Maitr. Samhita. It becomes 
more common only in the Vedic Kalpa Sutras. The old meaning seems to be "to 
honor" (also in early grammarians: Patanjali or Katyayana [I don't 
remember which]: rajnaam puujitah) .-- not anything like "to smear" as  
suggested by Dravidian. 
You don't smear your teacher or guests (at least not in India)  -----  not 
even with ointment. 
(The tilaka/tiika is a question appart, with a rather surprising origin)....

Though I hesitate to engage in guru-nindaa of my teacher P. Thieme,
it has to be said that the early occurence makes his particular Prakritic 
etymology (from which type of unattested Prakrit/Vedic popular speech?) rather 
unlikely. Details on the Vedic state of things in WZKS XXIV (1980), 
pp. 21 sqq. --  Thieme's etymology has been critized long ago by Katre.





 





From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Sat Oct  7 14:14:29 1995
From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 95 10:14:29 -0400
Subject: sci.astro.archaeo: Proposed Newsgroup/Mailing List
Message-ID: <161227021115.23782.966097939528667996.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Certainly a very good idea!

We had a very instructive conference on this topic at U. Missouri/ 
Columbia  a few years ago. We learned a lot from each other,  across the  
board (Near East/India/Maya)...

We should address, e.g., the question of ancient realtions (or not) 
between Babylonia and India...

I suggest that you inform/invite  Prof. Aveni (Colgate U.) who has been 
working on Meso-American astro-arch. for along time. His book sky watchers of 
ancient Mexico is very useful for anyone working on ancient astronomy 
(esp. the chapter dealing with watching the sky with naked eyes!).

For an outcome of the Columbia/MO conference, see a re-evaluation of the  
image/asterism of the Big Dipper/Ursa Maior in the Veda, in: Electronic 
Journal of Vedic Studies :
(http://www.india.shore.net/~ejvs   or http://www.arcadia.polimi.it 
/~ejvslist/ ) 

 





From pslvax!siva!sadhu at UCSD.EDU  Sat Oct  7 13:35:55 1995
From: pslvax!siva!sadhu at UCSD.EDU (pslvax!siva!sadhu at UCSD.EDU)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 95 13:35:55 +0000
Subject: Any distinction between "yoga" and "marga"?
Message-ID: <161227021122.23782.12050845485774925557.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 
|
|The connection between yoga and health is extremely late in the Indian 
|tradition. Neither yoga, nor yogic ideas, form part of the classical 
|system of Ayurveda until the composition of the Ayurvedasutra, itself
|a very late text, possibly almost a millennium later than Vagbhata.
|
|I believe that the origin of the notion of yoga as a *physical* system 
|is itself also rather recent, historically. Patanjali has only one sutra
|mentioning that one should sit "level" while meditating.  But I don't 
|know much about the history of yoga.  What is the opinion of others 
|better informed than me?
|
|Dominik
|
|

not being all that well informed, i should probably hesitate
to even contribute to these discussions, but, i would agree
with dominic.

yoga = health probably is a late notion.  or maybe just too
obvious for mention, until the health aspect became an end
in itself.  as a part of yogic discipline, meditation, etc,
hatha yoga i believe goes way back  .. eg, the indus valley figures
shown in padma asana.

then again, the original question referred to "the four yogas", but
not necessarily the time frame of the system.  the four margas i
mentioned are the pattern of the agamic texts.  as i understand it,
and again, please pardon my ignorance, the agamas are much later than
the vedas, but many are over 2,000 years old.  tradition i am told
counts 92 main saiva agamas, and 108 vaishnava pancharatra agamas.
most agamas are of 4 parts, the charya, kriya, yoga and jnana padas
(pada meaning quarter part, also, step, pace, stage, path ...)
which correspond to the 4 margas mentioned in my previous post.  i am
not sure if any of the agamas discuss hatha yoga, anyone know?

anyway, the point was, amongst modern aspirants a least, hatha yoga is not
limited to any of the margas.  the beginner may practice it only
for psyical health.  the advanced yogi, for tuning the thousands of
nadis (psychic nerve currents) into perfect harmony.  as far as the
ancient aspirants, i am not sure, but legend has it that the system
of hatha yoga for meditation has been passed down the various lineages
of gurus since time immemorial.

Om Namasivaya
sadhu
 





From d.keown at gold.ac.uk  Sat Oct  7 13:50:46 1995
From: d.keown at gold.ac.uk (d.keown at gold.ac.uk)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 95 14:50:46 +0100
Subject: Darpan
Message-ID: <161227021112.23782.13865535172528362340.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

For information ...

-----Forwarded Message------
Subject: Darpan

http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/People/pmishra/darpan/

Darpan is based on the Sanskrit word for mirror.  A mirror is an object
that provides a unique reflection for each person who looks into it.  In
this magazine, our goal is to explore the vast reflections of India that
are inherent within each individual. 

Prose
Poetry
Graphics


Editors in Chief;

Abhijit Ghosh and Rumi Bhattacharyya 

aghosh at students.uiuc.edu

rbhattac at ux4.cso.uiuc.edu



 





From kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp  Sat Oct  7 08:21:04 1995
From: kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 95 17:21:04 +0900
Subject: NORMAN.TTF (Windows) users, please...
Message-ID: <161227021109.23782.7970637600670697695.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A few highly technical questions for those who use NORMAN.TTF for Windows: 
I use this font with Word for Windows 6.0 (Japanese version), and I'm quite
puzzled with two
phenomena: 

(1) Whenever I type something in italics, and then there's a diacritical
mark, the type jumps back to non-italics after I use either the space-key or
insert another sign. 

(2) With some, but not all, diacritical marks, I cannot delete them with the
"delete"-key, but I have to use "backspace". 

Both these phenomena indicate that there's some peculiarity about the
font-encoding which makes Word f. Windows NOT recognize diacritics as
"normal" characters. I have experienced this with other diacritic-fonts, but
only insofar as a diacritical mark counts as word-boundary (which is why the
CTRL-left arrow or -right arrow-key only gets you to the next diacritical
mark, and not to the next "real" word), and never in the above-mentioned way. 

Experiences, anybody? 

TIA, 


Birgit Kellner
Institute for Indian Philosophy
University of Hiroshima

 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Sat Oct  7 19:00:53 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 95 20:00:53 +0100
Subject: Any distinction between "yoga" and "marga"?
Message-ID: <161227021119.23782.2261925362761725849.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sadhunathan said:
> ...  Hatha yoga, for example, is part of
> good health, for any stage of life, but is also preparation for
> meditation in the yoga marga.  

The connection between yoga and health is extremely late in the Indian 
tradition. Neither yoga, nor yogic ideas, form part of the classical 
system of Ayurveda until the composition of the Ayurvedasutra, itself
a very late text, possibly almost a millennium later than Vagbhata.

I believe that the origin of the notion of yoga as a *physical* system 
is itself also rather recent, historically. Patanjali has only one sutra
mentioning that one should sit "level" while meditating.  But I don't 
know much about the history of yoga.  What is the opinion of others 
better informed than me?

Dominik


PS: I have a sudden sense of deja vu: hasn't this been discussed before 
in INDOLOGY?  I'll check the archives.
 





From kichenas at math.umn.edu  Sat Oct  7 20:40:52 1995
From: kichenas at math.umn.edu (kichenas)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 95 20:40:52 +0000
Subject: Etymology of puujaa
Message-ID: <161227021120.23782.11463518757199455949.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This is with regard to M. Witzel's remarks:
``...
Further, the root occurs in names in Katha and Maitr. Samhita. It becomes
more common only in the Vedic Kalpa Sutras. The old meaning seems to be "to
honor" (also in early grammarians: Patanjali or Katyayana [I don't
remember which]: rajnaam puujitah) .-- not anything like "to smear" as
suggested by Dravidian.
You don't smear your teacher or guests (at least not in India)  -----  not
even with ointment.
...''

This by itself does not necessarily contradict an evolution out
the idea of `smearing.' One might think of the notion of
 `anointing.' Also, the idea of abhishEkam could be relevant here
(to suggest that the two semantic fields might conceivably be related, 
in an Indian context).
Would it be possible to give more decisive arguments?


                                Satyanad Kichenassamy
                                School of Mathematics
                                University of Minnesota
                                E-mail: kichenas at math.umn.edu

 





From mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk  Sun Oct  8 08:17:03 1995
From: mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk)
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 95 09:17:03 +0100
Subject: Hinduism and Buddhism/Jainism
Message-ID: <161227021125.23782.15206205613780399539.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Anshuman Pandey writes:

>It seems that strains of jainism and buddhism were prevalent, including
>mentions of tirthankars and boddhisatvas, during the early vedic age.

This is no chance that the term bodhi-sattva was present 'during the early
vedic age', as this is almost certainly a mistaken backformation from
Middle Indian bodhi-satta, in fact derived from bodhi-sakta. It is likely,
however, that terms such as arhat, jina, kevalin, etc. existed prior to the
formation of Budddhism or Jainism as we know them.

Lance Cousins

MANCHESTER, UK
Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk


 





From mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk  Sun Oct  8 08:17:07 1995
From: mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk)
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 95 09:17:07 +0100
Subject: Hinduism and Buddhism/Jainism
Message-ID: <161227021127.23782.1330630748660287227.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

S. Vidyasankar writes:

>Firstly, it is difficult to say what exactly is "Hindu", especially in the
>5th century BC. One can talk of Vedic ritualism and the upanishadic
>thought, but not of Hinduism in the modern sense.

Agreed.

>That said, it should be fairly clear that more than Buddhism, it is Jainism
>that is more firmly rooted in the SramaNa tradition. It must be remembered
>that Mahavira Jina is counted as the 24th tIrthAnkara from very early times.
>In contrast, Buddhism is not found before Gautama Buddha.

I think this is actually a difficult question. Since we know little of the
ideas and practices of the Buddha's teachers, such as Aa.laara the Kaalaama
and Uddaka Raamaputta, it is impossible to say what prior traditions he was
drawing on. It is clear, however, that early Buddhism claimed to be based
upon ancient teachings which had become corrupt.

The historicity of previous tiirthaa.nkaras is not really any better
established than that of previous Buddhas. It is simply assumed that
because Paar"sva is placed relatively recently in time, he must be
historical - a rather weak argument, when it comes to it.

>The idea of there
>being many bodhisattvas before him is a late concept, coming from mahAyAna
>times.

In fact the idea of previous Buddhas before Siddhattha Gotama is already
attested in the reign of Asoka who enlarged the stuupa of a former Buddha.

Lance Cousins

MANCHESTER, UK
Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk


 





From pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu  Sun Oct  8 17:19:58 1995
From: pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu (pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu)
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 95 10:19:58 -0700
Subject: Any distinction between "yoga" and "marga"?
Message-ID: <161227021129.23782.6049528731473013207.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In the previous several comments on yoga, esp. hatha yoga,
there seems to be something of a tenor of discrediting it
as part of a health practice in ayurveda because of its
late inclusion.  Might this better be thought of as a 
further development, an enhancement, in line with the larger
'philosophy' (ie. not just medicines, diagnosis, surgery,
etc.) and prevention of ill-health implied in ayurveda from
the start?  Need there be value only in that which was 
"passed down the various lineages of gurus since time immemorial"?
To imply that with regard to Indian sciences is to treat
them very differently than the expectations that we have
of Western (so-called) sciences, where the latest developments
are more highly valued than what the ancients practiced and
the folk medicines past down through family lineages.

Is not ayurveda and yoga such a living, dynamic, growing 
set of sciences?  Don't practioners see it that way?  Shouldn't
we?

Peter Claus
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Sun Oct  8 21:53:57 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw)
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 95 22:53:57 +0100
Subject: And now, as a contribution to Vedic studies...
Message-ID: <161227021131.23782.3901756296019869142.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I thought you might enjoy this recent posting to comp.fonts.  Surely
"EnVeda" must become the standard font for INDOLOGY discussions. :-)

in <pjm-0210951440500001 at pjm.interlog.com> pjm at interlog.com wrote
>I have a customer is who sent me the following inquiry:
>>I AM LOOKING FOR A FONT THAT WILL MIMIC SANSKRIT, BUT ACTUALY BE IN 
>>ENGLISH. IS THERE SUCH A THING?
> 

Yes Indeed, InProS's font Indinglish is exactly this font.

Indinglish font was recently used by AT&T in a major advertising
campaign.

Many of the wedding invitations for Indian marraiges in Eastern and
SouthWestern US are prepared using Indinglish and our Indian language
fonts.

You can see a sample of it at

http://www.inpros.com

cfynn at sahaja.demon.co.uk wrote
>Devanagri  characters (and those of several other Indian
>scripts) are mostly joined by a horizontal line running across
>the top of most letters. Characters hang from this line.
>Vowels are something like accents which are placed above this
>line some of them appear below the consonant characters.

This is a pretty good description of it. Indinglish has succeeded in
capturing all of these featuures. 

We will soon be releasing another English font called EnVeda which
will also capture look and feel of Sanskrit script in a unique way,
Tentative release date January 14th 1996.

-Mala Ward
info at inpros.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
InProS: Dedicated to Preserving Heritage through Technology



 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Mon Oct  9 09:57:45 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 09:57:45 +0000
Subject: Etymology of puujaa
Message-ID: <161227021136.23782.2815082045021736251.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Sat, 7 Oct 1995 witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU wrote:
> according to G. Buehnemann (Puujaa. Vienna 1988, p. 30) the etymology of
>   puujaa has not yet been explained convincingly. Mayrhofer (Kurzgefasstes
>   etymologisches Woerterbuch des Altindischen. 4 vols. Heidelberg 1965-80)
>   suggest a derivation from Tamil puucu 'to smeare'. However, Thieme (Kleine
>   Schriften, p. 792) connects the word with *pRn^ca kR 'to prepare a mixture
>   for someone'. As far as I know there there is no final conclusion regarding
> > its etymology. Buehnemann gives a fair account of the various positions.
..> the word, or rather the root, PUUJ occurs even in the Rgveda, though 
well > hidden in an epithet of Indra: zacI-pUjana- 
> Further, the root occurs in names in Katha and Maitr. Samhita. It becomes 
> more common only in the Vedic Kalpa Sutras. The old meaning seems to be "to 
> honor" (also in early grammarians: Patanjali or Katyayana [I don't 
> remember which]: rajnaam puujitah) .-- not anything like "to smear" as  
> suggested by Dravidian. 
....I suggest that prakrts provide a set of semantic clusters which may
explain the etymology with a bit more precision.
Prof. Witzel does not have to do guru-nindanA of prof. Thieme...
Re: Etymology of pUjA

pU, pU(z,,j) are phonemes which evolve in three semantic clusters in
South Asian language streams:

(1) flowering, menstruation; (2) to adorn; and (3) to smear, clean; present.

pUjA =  worshipping is perhaps related to the semantic compound:
presenting flowers, i.e. a compounding of semantic clusters 1 and 3.

Linking pUjA with smearing and cleaning may be explained by a semantic
compound; pU = to blossom (Tamil) X jhasAI = anointing (PunjAbI); jaS, 
jhaS =
to hurt (Skt.); jhAsA = inflicting injury upon one's self (GujarAti, 
MarAThI).

(1) Semantics: flowering, menstruation:

pU (-ttal) to blossom, bloom (pUtta mA-attu: ainkuRu.10)(Sangam Tamil);
pU flower (Old Kannada); pUppu menstruation (pUppinpuRappa TIrARu nALum :
TolkAppiyam.PoruL. 187)(Old Tamil); puppham = a flower; the menses
(AbhidhAnappadIpika, 238, 1091: Pali)

(2) Semantics: to adorn

pUcal = decoration (Tamil: CUTA.); pU = ornamental plate on the forehead
of an elephant (pUnutal yAnaioTu :puRanAnURu. 165 Sangam Tamil);
pUTci, pUN = ornament (Maturaik. 569 Old Tamil); bhUS to adorn, decorate;
bhUSaNam = ornament

(3) Semantics: to smear, clean; present

pUcu-tal = to besmear, anoint (nIRu pUci nimicaTai mERpiRai :
tEvAram. 627,5 : Old Tamil)
sprz = to touch, fel wih the hand, stroke : DhAtupATha xxviii);
sparza = touching; sprSTa = touched (Skt.);
paricam = sense of touch (puRatuLa paricankaNIttanan :
Old Tamil: jnAnavA. vItaka. 47; sparza = touch, contact;
philosopher's stone (MarAThi);
pochnA, pochA denA = to smear the cooking place or floor (PunjAbI);
smIcar = to daub (GujarAti); poncArNe = to punch and thump,
to beat with the fist (clothes in washing them);
ponjDa = filthy, foul, dirty -- a person (MarAThi)

pUjA = offering (AbhidhAnappadIpika, 425: Pali); to offer, present
(Dhammapadam, 20,35:Pali);
paricam = a concubine's fee: Cilap. 3,163, urai. Tamil) (perhaps influenced
by semantic: sparzanam = touch);

pUta = pure, puified, cleansed (MarAThi) (cf. pustakam = book (Skt.);
puttakam : puttakamE cAlattoruttum : NalaTi, 318 Old Tamil);
pusta = working in clay; pusta-karman = plastering (Skt.)
fr. pU to make clear (DhAtup. xxxi,12); pUto = purified
(AbhidhAnappadIpika, 44: Pali)(cf. punAti);
pustI = a paper pasted behind another paper (MarAThi)

Dr. S. Kalyanaraman mdsaaa48 at giasmd01.VSNL.net.in

Indus Sarasvati Research Centre, 20/7 Warren Road,
Mylapore, Madras 600004. Tel. 91-44-4936288; Fax. 91-44-4996380
 





From Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at  Mon Oct  9 09:20:22 1995
From: Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at (Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 10:20:22 +0100
Subject: Any distinction between "yoga" and "marga"?
Message-ID: <161227021134.23782.3701733735210704669.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>then again, the original question referred to "the four yogas", but
>not necessarily the time frame of the system.  the four margas i
>mentioned are the pattern of the agamic texts.  as i understand it,
>and again, please pardon my ignorance, the agamas are much later than
>the vedas, but many are over 2,000 years old.  tradition i am told
>counts 92 main saiva agamas, and 108 vaishnava pancharatra agamas.
>most agamas are of 4 parts, the charya, kriya, yoga and jnana padas
>(pada meaning quarter part, also, step, pace, stage, path ...)
>which correspond to the 4 margas mentioned in my previous post.
>
>Om Namasivaya
>sadhu


I believe H. Brunner has shown that the division into four padas of the 
aagamas is late.


Max Nihom
Vienna

 





From csr at jupiter.wipro.com  Mon Oct  9 05:29:03 1995
From: csr at jupiter.wipro.com (csr at jupiter.wipro.com)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 13:29:03 +0800
Subject: Speak Sanskrit classes in US
Message-ID: <161227021148.23782.8193877922897580959.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

                    "S P E A K   S A N S K R I T"

                  classes by Sri Krishna Shastry
                         Oct - Dec 1995
                           in U.S.A
        ** Schedule for classes attached at the end of this mail **

Revolutionary teaching technique in "Spoken Sanskrit"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     o The teaching starts with SPEAKING and not with GRAMMAR.
     o The instructor will speak ONLY in SANSKRIT from day one.
     o You don't need to know Sanskrit before!
     o You don't need to memorize all the noun and verb tables. Did we
       do that to learn our mother tongue ?
     o Classes are fun and are conducted through enjoyable games.
     o Follow up classes and study groups will be conducted.
     o Special workshop for Sanskrit teachers will be conducted

The Movement
~~~~~~~~~~~~
    What started off in 1982 at Bangalore, as an experiment to bring back
Sanskrit into daily life, has gathered the momentum of a movement today.
Speak Sanskrit  classes are being held all over the country. Nearly 80% of
people in the village Mattur in Karnataka converse in Sanskrit on a daily
basis. More than a million people have participated in Speak Sanskrit
classes in the last 14 years.

Krishna Shastry, The Man behind the movement.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Language learning starts with speaking and not grammar. This is the
natural way to learn any language", says Krishna Shastry. After obtaining
his "Shastry" degree from Rashtreeya Sanskrita Samsthaanam, New Delhi,
Sri Krishna Shastry, 39, has devoted his life for taking Sanskrit to
common people. He has personally trained thousands of teachers and students.
Ever smiling, tireless Sri Krishna Shastry is a bundle of energy and an
inspiration to all.

             Visit the Web site "Sanskrit Home Page" at
          http://rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu:8080/sanskrit.html

For general info, contact
Venkatesh Murthy 415-926-6925 Email: vmurthy at informix.com

Following is his schedule. Contact person is given for each city. Where the
contact person is not an email, use vmurthy at informix.com

Oct 27 - 28   : Portland/Seattle [ Not confirmed ]

Oct 30- Nov 4 : San Francisco
                Prasanna Ganapati 408-446-5485  prasg at informix.com

Nov 5 - 7     : Los Angeles
                Chetan gandhi  310-926-2633 gandhi at gandalf.SP.TRW.COM

8 - 10        : San Diego

10 - 12       : Houston
                Sharad Amin    713-980-9150    vmurthy at informix.com

13 - 15       : Miami
                Ajay Joshi  305-823-2380  (Jennifer Schluke) jschul01 at fiu.edu

16 - 18       : Atlanta
                Srikant Konda    404 394 6008  srikanth at hemi.alph.att.com

19 - 22       : Chicago
                Bhaskar Enaganti    312-258-0298  bhas at andersen.com

23 - 26       : Columbus/Cincinnati
                Usha Ashwat  614-487-1407  cadus at aol.com

27 - 30       : Maryland
                Dr.Radheshyam dwivedi  301-345-6090 (fax: 301-345-6559)

Dec 1 -  4    : NJ/PA
                Shashi Ghat  610 395 3553 ghatsb at ttown.apci.com

4 -  7        : Boston
                Prashant Bhat    603-595-7051

8 - 10        : NY
                Surendra    718-846-0662    Email:ramana at image.li-ny.org

 





From BHATTACHARYA at MEDLIB.HSCBKLYN.EDU  Mon Oct  9 18:53:54 1995
From: BHATTACHARYA at MEDLIB.HSCBKLYN.EDU (BHATTACHARYA at MEDLIB.HSCBKLYN.EDU)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 14:53:54 -0400
Subject: Darpan
Message-ID: <161227021146.23782.6286468595352376156.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear "Darpan",

Is this something I can subscibe to as well?  Does it come over email or other
media?

A. K. Bhattacharya, MD
 





From torella at axrma.uniroma1.it  Mon Oct  9 15:32:58 1995
From: torella at axrma.uniroma1.it (torella at axrma.uniroma1.it)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 16:32:58 +0100
Subject: addresses
Message-ID: <161227021141.23782.11753546692230007215.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Could anybody give me the email address or fax number of Prof. H.
Bechert and Prof. Ch. Lindtner ?

Thank you.

Raffaele Torella

Raffaele Torella
ecc....


 





From csr at jupiter.wipro.com  Mon Oct  9 08:41:39 1995
From: csr at jupiter.wipro.com (csr at jupiter.wipro.com)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 16:41:39 +0800
Subject: Souvenir for Sanskrit Classes in US
Message-ID: <161227021150.23782.9848133175681243394.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

                          smaraNasaMchikA
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                   S A N S K R I T    S O U V E N I R
                   ----------------------------------

We are bringing out a souvenir on the occassion of "Speak Sanskrit"
classes in US. (Nov - Dec). We request from members of the indology
group to contribute to the souvenir.

Title for souvenir
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please suggest a beautiful title (shirshhikA) for the souvenir, like

  -  saMskR^ita manjushhA
  -  saMskR^ita saritA
etc.

Articles for souvenir
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Topics can be

      - Richness of Sanskrit literature.
      - Sanskrit contribution to different fields of science.
      - Sanskrit and Culture.
      - Simplicity of Sanskrit.
   etc

The articles will be in English with Sanskrit quotes.

Also, do send us your collection(s), pieces of information which you think
will help in creating an article.

Please send your responses to     csr at wipro.com
Mailing address :

 Raghavendra  C  Swamy
 4231, Norwalk Dr. Apt. EE-110
 San Jose,  CA  95129

Please send your input before October. 15.

bhavadIya,

- RaghavendraH
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raghavendra C S                                  (408) 241-0261
4231, Norwalk Dr.                                (408) 253-9862 x16
Apt. #EE-110, San Jose, CA 95129
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 





From goodall at vax.ox.ac.uk  Mon Oct  9 16:39:19 1995
From: goodall at vax.ox.ac.uk (goodall at vax.ox.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 17:39:19 +0100
Subject: Any distinction between "yoga" and "marga"?
Message-ID: <161227021139.23782.13509903515694872657.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

As Max Nihom has pointed out, an article of Mme. Brunner [`The Four Paadas 
of "Saivaagamas' in `The Journal of Oriental Reseach, Madras, Dr.S.S.Janaki 
Felicitation Volume'  (Madras:1992)] does indeed show that few of the
twenty-eight tantras of the "Saiva Siddhaanta (and none that are demonstrably 
early) are divided into sections of text called paadas.  

Nevertheless the group of four (j~naana/vidyaa, kriyaa, caryaa/vrata, and yoga)
is mentioned in early tantras that are not divided into sections of text with 
these labels (e.g. in chapter 6 of the Kira.na) and in other later works that
are not so divided (e.g. the Vi.s.nusa.mhitaa).

It is conceivable that the paadas were the names of subject areas covered by 
tantras and not labels for text divisions, as they subsequently became in
tantras like the Mata.ngapaarame"svara and the M.rgendra.

Dominic Goodall.

 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Mon Oct  9 17:46:33 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 17:46:33 +0000
Subject: Any distinction between "yoga" and "marga"?
Message-ID: <161227021142.23782.139072140296567405.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Peter Claus said:
> 
> In the previous several comments on yoga, esp. hatha yoga,
> there seems to be something of a tenor of discrediting it
> as part of a health practice in ayurveda because of its
> late inclusion.

Yes, it is all to easy to use "late" as though it were a denounciation
of something.  But the emotional tone of the use of this word normally
derives from its use to combat a-historical claims of unreasonable
ancientness.

> Might this better be thought of as a
> further development, an enhancement, in line with the larger
> 'philosophy' (ie. not just medicines, diagnosis, surgery,
> etc.) and prevention of ill-health implied in ayurveda from
> the start?

Well, no.  The purpose of ayurveda is getting and staying healthy; the
purpose of yoga is liberation, or more specifically "cittavrttinirodha"
so that asamprajnaaasamadhi can arise.  The sastras are internally quite
clear about their different aims.  The commentator Cakrapanidatta says
this explicitly in his discussion of Caraka's recommendation of "maitri"
as a suitable moral attitude.  Cakra is bothered about the use of meats
an animal broths as medicines, and sees this -- rightly, I think -- as a
contradition of the ideal of "maitri".  His conclusion?

  na hi aayurvedavidhayo "dharmasaadhanam evopadi"santi, ki.m
  tarhyarogyasaadhana.m "dhaatusaamyakriyaa coktaa tantrasyaasya
  prayojanam (Suu.a.1) ity ukte.h" (Ca.Su.9.29).

  Thre rules of ayurveda are not taught to further Dharma, but to
  promote health.  After all, it is said that "the purpose of this
  system is stated to be making the humours balanced".

This is a very interesting passage.

> Need there be value only in that which was
> "passed down the various lineages of gurus since time immemorial"?
> To imply that with regard to Indian sciences is to treat
> them very differently than the expectations that we have
> of Western (so-called) sciences, where the latest developments
> are more highly valued than what the ancients practiced and
> the folk medicines past down through family lineages.

The difference is simply whether one is trying to heal people, or to
understand history.  The aims are different.  I'm unashamedly trying to
understand the history of Indian science.

> Is not ayurveda and yoga such a living, dynamic, growing 
> set of sciences?  Don't practioners see it that way?  Shouldn't
> we?

Some ayurvedic doctors do (the a"suddha, or "impure" school), others
don't (the "suddha people).  Earlier this century there was a big and
rather violent debate within the community of ayurvedic practitioners
about whether ayurveda was eternal, true, complete and static, or
whether it should adapt to cosmopolitan medicine and absorb features
from it.  Charles Leslie has written insightfully about this in his book
_Paths to asian medical knowledge_ (also edited by him).  The whole
question of change and continuity in ayurveda is a very difficult and
interesting one.

Dominik Wujastyk



 





From pannell at vax.ox.ac.uk  Mon Oct  9 17:49:50 1995
From: pannell at vax.ox.ac.uk (pannell at vax.ox.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 18:49:50 +0100
Subject: problematic Braj word/idioms
Message-ID: <161227021144.23782.9881458030355158682.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

I am working on a critical edition of the lyrics of the 16-century Braj poet,
musician and religious preceptor SvAmI HaridAs. His poetry is very fascinating
but  sometimes extremely obscure; neither discussions with people from the
HaridAsI SampradAy in Vrindaban, nor dictionaries have helped me to resolve
some problems.

I would appreciate any information about the following obscure Braj words/idioms
which occur in HaridAs's KelimAl (KM):

1. dihArI KM 15.4;
2. sADhe gyArah KM 26.3 (this is supposed to be a coin which was in circulation
at Akbar's time, but I haven't manage to find any reference to it);
3. bAphini KM 37.1 (again this is supposed to mean 'eyelashes' but I haven't
been able to trace it);
4. adhauTI KM 61.2 (according to SBBhK this is a type of instrument, but I would
be interested to know what exactly type of instrument);
5. arAarI KM 71.2 (attested as a synonym of MSH hoR, but no etymology);
6. an idiom: dUbare kI rAdhI khIra khA- KM 51.4
7. _       : pAnI meM pAnI narIca 

Many thanks,
Lucy Rosenstein
 





From GRUENEN at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Tue Oct 10 08:25:23 1995
From: GRUENEN at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (GRUENENDAHL)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 08:25:23 +0000
Subject: addresses
Message-ID: <161227021152.23782.1840217913442950924.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> Date sent:      Mon,  9 Oct 1995 18:28:41 BST
> Send reply to:  indology at liverpool.ac.uk
> From:           torella at axrma.uniroma1.it (Raffaele Torella)
> To:             Members of the list <indology at liverpool.ac.uk>
> Subject:        addresses


> Could anybody give me the email address or fax number of Prof. H.
> Bechert and Prof. Ch. Lindtner ?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Raffaele Torella
> 
> Raffaele Torella
> ecc....
> 




Prof. Bechert has no individual email-address. However, you can 
contact him via Dr. Klaus Wille at the Goettingen Seminar:

KWILLE at GWDG.DE



Reinhold Gruenendahl
Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek
37070 Goettingen
Germany
Phone: 0551/395283

 





From Leofacq at msn.com  Tue Oct 10 11:11:16 1995
From: Leofacq at msn.com (Leo Facq)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 11:11:16 +0000
Subject: FW: re my request of 19 september on a translation of Shankara's
Message-ID: <161227021156.23782.5366716392647753890.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



----------
From: 	indology-request at liverpool.ac.uk on behalf of Leo Facq

Sent: 	dinsdag 26 september 1995 19:19
To: 	Members of the list
Subject: 	
re my request of 19 september on a translation of Shankara's 

We learnt 
from Europe's leading bookshop on Asean litterature Otto 
Harrassowitz in 
Wiesbaden-Germany that A.G. Krishna Warner's book 
(Ramakrishna Math, Madras 
1983) is out of print and is no longer on the 
second hand market. Could 
anyone put us in touch with a bookseller 
(i.e.provide us with name and 
address on E-mail??) who would still stock it, 
first or second hand? We 
have a rather urgent need for it.
Many thanks 
ahead.

Note added on 
October 10,1995:
Is there perhaps any chance of borrowing it from a library? 
Please inform undersigned of conditions of loan of books to Europe/Belgium

Many Thanks ahead
Leofacq
 


 





From soni at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE  Tue Oct 10 06:10:57 1995
From: soni at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE (soni at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 11:40:57 +0530
Subject: addresses
Message-ID: <161227021154.23782.13886687359682101638.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Could anybody give me the email address or fax number of Prof. H.
>Bechert and Prof. Ch. Lindtner ?
>
>Thank you.
>
>Raffaele Torella
>
>Raffaele Torella
>ecc....
>


 Prof.Dr. H. Bechert, Seminar fuer Indologie und Buddhismuskunde,
Hainbundstrasse 21, Goettingen, D-37085, phone: (0551)57068;
Hermann-Foege-Weg 1a, Goettingen, D-37085, phone(0551)485765 (from "German
Indology" compiled by Agnes Stache-Weiske, Munich 1988).

Dr Christian Lindtner, University of Kopenhagen, Institute of Oriental
Philology, Njalsgade 80, DK23 (?); Kobenhavn S. Denmark, Tovesvej 6 DK-2850
Naerum (from the list of participants for the Jaina Coference in Toronto,
January 1995).


 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Tue Oct 10 13:17:06 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 13:17:06 +0000
Subject: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 300+ Popular USA         Titles
Message-ID: <161227021157.23782.15230383564135291015.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear INDOLOGY members,

Please ignore the recent large posting advertising magazine
subscriptions.

Especially, please do not reply to it, since your reply will be sent
back to INDOLOGY, not the originators of the message.

>From time to time we get unsolicited email of this type being sent to
INDOLOGY (this is called "spamming").  This practice is detrimental to
the internet, impolite to you and me, and contravenes basic netiquette.
I recommend having nothing to do with any company that spams.  Only by
being seen to be a commercial failure will this type of junk advertizing
die out.

Dominik Wujastyk


 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Tue Oct 10 21:40:44 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 21:40:44 +0000
Subject: Etymology of kSatriya
Message-ID: <161227021159.23782.2123997698942232829.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Etymology of kSatriya

I found an interesting lexeme in MarAThI.

kSetrI fr. kSatriya Skt. = the second of the four great classes of the 
Hindu people or an individual of it; a peasant, cultivator, farmer.

This suggests re-visiting the traditional morpheme: kSatr = military 
prowess (attested early in RV applied to the power of VaruNa-Mitra and 
Indra). ViSNurAm Apte adds 
a question mark as to the root: kSi? and remarks: "members of military in 
the earliest times as represented by the Vedic hymns were generally called 
rAjanya, not kSatriya;
afterwards, when the difference between brahman and 
kSatra or the priestly and civil authorities became more distinct, 
applied to the second or reigning or 
military caste in VS, AV, TS etc... " Raghuvamsa (ii,53) adds another root: 
trai, fancifully: kshatAt tra i.e., a preserver from injury.

But, see the root: kSi = to abide, reside (a secret residence) (RV); this 
root explains: kSetra = landed property (RV, AV ii,8,5, VS xvi,18)

The possible semantic conflicts: field X power, could be resolved by the 
PrAkr: khet, khelar (PunjAbI) = kSetra = agricultural field and assigning 
the early meaning of peasant to kSetrI. cf.
khettaM (Pali) = landed property, a cultivated field (Dhammapadam. 64); 
but, moriya khattiya = maurya princes (MahAwanso. 21).

The cognate semantics in Kannada and Tamil/MalayALam are: kesaRu and cERu
respectively meaning: mud, mire sluch, loam (cf. katirmUkkAral kIZHccER 
RoLippa: puRanA, 249); cERATu-tal = to make a field slushy for sowing paddy 
(Tamil).

It is, therefore, reasonable to propose that the early meaning of kSatr 
was linked, not to power but to agriculture.

Dr. S. Kalyanaraman
mdsaaa48 at giasmd01.VSNL.net.in
Indus Sarasvati Research Centre,
20/7 Warren Road, Mylapore, Madras 600004
tel.44-4936288; fax. 44-4996380
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Wed Oct 11 10:02:59 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 10:02:59 +0000
Subject: Etymology of kSatriya
Message-ID: <161227021163.23782.2280290412843855325.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


DR.S.KALYANARAMAN said:
> 
> It is, therefore, reasonable to propose that the early meaning of kSatr 
> was linked, not to power but to agriculture.

Forgive me banging on at the same old drum, but: meaning comes from
sentences, not etymolgies.

Surely the early meaning of the words of the "k.satra" group is to be
understood from studying how the authors of the early Sanskrit texts
used the words, not from comparison with similar-sounding words in
Kannada meaning "slush"?

Dominik

-- 

Dominik Wujastyk,
Wellcome Institute,
183 Euston Road,
London NW1 2BE.

FAX: +44 171 611 8545
email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk

For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page:
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html

 





From Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at  Wed Oct 11 09:19:03 1995
From: Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at (Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 10:19:03 +0100
Subject: address
Message-ID: <161227021165.23782.12649800080875564621.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Might I ask the members of Indology for the E-mail address of Prof. dr. T. 
E. Vetter, Instituut Kern, Rijksuniversiteit Leiden, The Netherlands?


Thank You,


Max Nihom
Vienna

 





From A.Raman at massey.ac.nz  Tue Oct 10 22:57:36 1995
From: A.Raman at massey.ac.nz (Anand Venkt Raman)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 11:57:36 +1300
Subject: request for article
Message-ID: <161227021161.23782.8974048487869293325.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Our library doesn't have this article - neither does any in the
country.  I figure email would be faster than placing an overseas
interloan request.  So I would greatly appreciate it if someone who
already has this article can mail, fax, ftp or email an electronic
version of it:

J.F.Fleet, The katapayadi system of expressing numbers, Journal
of the Royal Asiatic Society (JRAS), 1911, p.788-794.

Many thanks in advance.

- &
--
Anand Raman                       Ph: +64-6-350-4186, 355-0062 (a/h)
Dept of Computer Science          Fx: +64-6-350-5611
http://fims-www.massey.ac.nz/~ARaman
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Wed Oct 11 12:46:10 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 12:46:10 +0000
Subject: Etymology of kSatriya
Message-ID: <161227021169.23782.17697584187376864855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


DR.S.KALYANARAMAN said:
> If we keep quoting sentences,
> we will end up writing books for each morpheme.

Yes.  I consider C. S. Lewis's _Studies in Words_ to be one of the
finest such books, for example.  For me, this is the linguistic
equivalent of Geertz's "thick description" in social anthropology.  It
would be marvellous to have such subtle and searching studies for
Sanskrit words and concepts.  Of course quite a lot has been done: I
think immediately of van Buitenen's fine studies of "citta", "ahankara"
and related words.

Dominik



 





From mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk  Wed Oct 11 12:25:09 1995
From: mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 13:25:09 +0100
Subject: Etymology of kSatriya
Message-ID: <161227021171.23782.13558608821567504087.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

DR.S.KALYANARAMAN said:

>I suppose, lexemes are not inventions but are based on meanings derived
>from usage in sentence or pithy epigraphs. Some languages of course
>boast of even poems.

But some lexemes are indeed inventions - that is precisely the problem. For
example many Sanskrit words were created on the basis of mistaken
backformations from Prakrit. In some cases the correct Sanskrit form was
not recognized; in others the Prakrit form did not derive from
Indo-European at all, but from languages of other  groups, some of which
are probably no longer extant.

Again, sometimes words are used erroneously. If this happens in a well-read
work, the error may find its way into the lexicographical literature and be
perpetuated.

Sometimes words are simply invented for literary or other purposes.

Sometimes a copyist's error creates a new word or word meaning which is
subsequently repeated by others.

And so on.

Lance Cousins

MANCHESTER, UK
Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk


 





From csr at jupiter.wipro.com  Wed Oct 11 06:39:25 1995
From: csr at jupiter.wipro.com (csr at jupiter.wipro.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 14:39:25 +0800
Subject: Sanskrit Translation
Message-ID: <161227021177.23782.7791160020598000831.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi,

"suutra" has many meanings. The two I which know are -
 
  suutra -  thread

    Ex : maangalya suutra - Wedding thread.

  suutra - formula
 
     Ex : paaNini suutra - PaNini's formula


sanskrit at keshav.informix.com - a sanskirt mailing list is another
forum where you may like to post this query.

- Raghavendra.
 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Wed Oct 11 15:40:14 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 15:40:14 +0000
Subject: Etymology of kSatriya
Message-ID: <161227021167.23782.44513193643984311.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

> 
> DR.S.KALYANARAMAN said:
> > 
> > It is, therefore, reasonable to propose that the early meaning of kSatr 
> > was linked, not to power but to agriculture.
> 
> Forgive me banging on at the same old drum, but: meaning comes from
> sentences, not etymolgies.
> 
> Surely the early meaning of the words of the "k.satra" group is to be
> understood from studying how the authors of the early Sanskrit texts
> used the words, not from comparison with similar-sounding words in
> Kannada meaning "slush"?
> 
> Dominik
> 
> -- 
> 
> Dominik Wujastyk,
> Wellcome Institute,
> 183 Euston Road,
> London NW1 2BE.
> 
> FAX: +44 171 611 8545
> email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk
> 
> For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page:
> http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.htmL
Bb> 
>  
> 
Wujastyk makes a good beat on the drum. If we keep quoting sentences,
we wil end up writing books for each morpheme.
I suppose, lexemes are not inventions but are based on meanings derived
from usage in sentence or pithy epigraphs. Some languages of course
boast of even poems.
Dr. Kalyanaraman.
 





From thuraira at pilot.msu.edu  Wed Oct 11 17:02:33 1995
From: thuraira at pilot.msu.edu (What's In a Name?)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 17:02:33 +0000
Subject: Sanskrit Translation
Message-ID: <161227021175.23782.3081733259721740164.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi!
I am not sure this is the right forum in which to ask this question, 
but if anyone can help out I'd be much obliged. Here goes:

I am looking for the meaning of the Sanskrit word "Sutra."
I know that it is ususally used to mean "story" or more particularly, 
"short story."

I would be interested to know if it also means "Thread," as in "the 
thread of a story."

If anyone knows please E-mail thuraira at pilot.msu.edu.

Thanks,
Ema Thurairajah
Michigan State University
 





From francois at sas.ac.uk  Wed Oct 11 16:51:42 1995
From: francois at sas.ac.uk (Francois Quiviger)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 17:51:42 +0100
Subject: Warburg Institute Research Fellowships (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227021173.23782.10235801615352454349.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



Although the following announcement for fellowships do not seem at first
sight to concern indologists it is worth pointing out that in the past
some have been awarded to scholars studying aspects of cultural contacts
between Asia and the West. I hope therefore that the following message 
will be of interest to some members of this list. 

			With best wishes.


			Francois Quiviger


 

The Warburg Institute  Research Fellowships, 1996-97

The Warburg Institute
The Warburg Institute is dedicated to the interdisciplinary study of the 
classical tradition - in the sense of those elements in European thought, 
art and institutions that have evolved out of the cultures of the ancient 
world.  Its Library and Photographic Collection are designed and arranged 
to encourage research into the processes by which one culture learns from 
another and by which different fields of thought and art act on each 
other.  They are particularly concerned with continuities between the 
ancient Mediterranean civilizations and the cultural and intellectual 
history of post-classical Europe, especially in the period to c. 1800.

Research Fellowships
The following Fellowships in intellectual and cultural history will be 
tenable at the Warburg Institute in the 1996-97 session.

Brian Hewson Crawford Fellowship:  A Research Fellowship has been endowed 
from the estate of, and in memory of, Dr Brian Hewson Crawford, who 
graduated from the University of London in 1926.  A short-term Fellowship 
is available for the study of any aspect of the classical tradition.  
Under the terms of the deed, the Fellowship is open to European scholars 
other than of British nationality.

Henri Frankfort Fellowship:  Mrs Enriqueta Frankfort has endowed a 
Research Fellowship in memory of her husband Henri Frankfort, who was 
Director of the Institute from 1949 to 1954.  The Fellowship, which is 
short-term, may be held in any of the areas in which Professor Frankfort 
made his distinguished contributions to scholarship:  the intellectual 
and cultural history of the ancient Near and Middle East, with particular 
reference to society, art architecture, religion, philosophy and science; 
the relations between the cultures of Mesopotamia, Egypt and the Aegean, 
and their influence on later civilizations.  The Fellowship is not 
intended to support archaeological excavation.

Frances A. Yates Fellowships:  Dame Frances Yates, who died on 29 
September 1981, generously bequeathed her residuary estate to found a 
research Fellowship or Fellowships in her name at the Institute.  
Fellows' interests may lie in any aspect of cultural and intellectual 
history but, other things being equal, preference will be given to those 
whose work is concerned with those areas of the medieval and Renaissance 
encyclopedia of knowledge to which Dame Frances herself made such 
distinguished contributions.  A long-term Fellowship (up to three years) 
is offered in some years but is not available for 1996-97.  Approximately 
8 short-term Fellowships are available.

NORD/LB Warburg-Wolfenbuttel Fellowship:  The Norddeutsche Landesbank has 
funded a four-month Research Fellowship tenable for two months at the 
Institute and two months at the Herzog August Bibliothek Wolfenbuttel for 
research into the cultural and intellectual history of early modern 
Europe.  [Conditions, value of award and method of application for this 
Fellowship follow in a separate message.]

Eligibility:
The Fellowships are intended for younger scholars who should have 
completed at least two years' research towards the doctorate.  Those 
employed as Professor, Lecturer, or equivalent in a university or 
learned institution may normally hold an award only if they are taking 
unpaid leave for the whole of the period.  The Fellowship may not be held 
concurrently with another Fellowship or award.  Applicants must normally 
have been under 35 years of age on 1 October 1995.  Any other conditions 
for eligibility applicable to individual Fellowships are stated above.

Duration and Value of Fellowships:
The Fellowships will be of one to three months' duration.  The 
value of awards will be:  applicants domiciled in the United Kingdom, 
1,550 pounds for three months (shorter periods not available; National 
Insurance contributions required); applicants domiciled abroad, 800 
pounds for one month, 1,300 pounds for two months, 1,800 pounds for three 
months.  The amount of these stipends is absolute; no additional travel 
costs or expenses will be paid.

Tenure:
Fellows must hold at least three-quarters of their award during term-time.  
Term dates for 1996-97 will be 30 September - 6 December 
1996; 6 January - 14 March 1997; 21 April - 27 June 1997.

Selection:
No interviews are held for short-term Fellowships.  Awards will be 
notified in March 1996. All candidates will be informed of the outcome of 
their application.

General:
All Fellows will be expected to participate in the life of the Institute 
and to put their knowledge at the disposal of the Institute by presenting 
their work in a seminar and by advising the Library and Photographic 
Collection.  Fellows may teach elsewhere during tenure of the Fellowship 
only with the express permission of the Director.  They will be required 
to present a brief written report at the conclusion of their 
appointments.  A Fellowship may be terminated if the Appointing Committee 
is not satisfied that the conditions of the award are being met.  All 
publications containing results of work done with the aid of a Fellowship 
shall include adequate acknowledgement of the fact.

Applications:
Applications should be made by letter to the Director giving the 
following information:
1.  A curriculum vitae giving full details of name, date of birth, 
address and present occupation, school and university education, degrees, 
teaching and research experience, publications
2.  An outline of proposed research
3.  Particulars of grants received, if any, for the same subject
4.  The names and addresses of two or three persons who have agreed to 
write, without further invitation, to the Director in support of the 
appliction.  These letters of reference should reach the Director by 4 
January 1996.  It is the responsibility of candidates to ask their 
referees to write to the Director by this date.
5.  Candidates from abroad applying for awards should specify how long they 
wish to spend at the Institute (i.e. one, two or three months).
6.  Copies of published work should be submitted, if possible.  
Candidates should indicate whether they wish these publications to be 
returned, or whether they may be given to the Institute's library.

Closing date: applictions must arrive at the Institute no later than 5 
December 1995.

Applications MUST be made by post.  (No e-mail applications will be 
accepted.)  The postal address of the Institute is:  

The Warburg Institute
University of London
Woburn Square
London WC1H 0AB
UK











 





From lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu  Thu Oct 12 02:14:37 1995
From: lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu (Lance Nelson)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 19:14:37 -0700
Subject: Translation of Shankara
Message-ID: <161227021182.23782.14128189543901306331.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Try:

Sarada Convent Books
925 Ladera Lane
Santa Barbara, CA 93108

805/969-5697

or the Bodhi Tree Bookstore on Melrose in L.A.: (310) 659-1733, which has 
a large collection of used books.

Hope this helps.

LN
---------------------------
Lance Nelson
Religious Studies    
University of San Diego
lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu
---------------------------




 





From apandey at u.washington.edu  Thu Oct 12 03:59:15 1995
From: apandey at u.washington.edu (Anshuman Pandey)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 20:59:15 -0700
Subject: Query about Upavedas.
Message-ID: <161227021184.23782.17908133302509255226.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


What relation do the Upavedas have to the four Vedas? Are they found in 
the Vedas themselves, or are they separate treatises? Secondly, of what 
relation are the Vedangas to the four Vedas?

Perhaps a private reply will be best.

Thanks.

Anshuman Pandey


 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Thu Oct 12 07:12:17 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 07:12:17 +0000
Subject: Etymology of kSatriya
Message-ID: <161227021178.23782.11127149105407568745.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

> finest such books, for example.  For me, this is the linguistic
> equivalent of Geertz's "thick description" in social anthropology.  It
> would be marvellous to have such subtle and searching studies for
> Sanskrit words and concepts.  Of course quite a lot has been done: I
> think immediately of van Buitenen's fine studies of "citta", "ahankara"
> and related words.

Dominik makes a beautiful point. A substantial part of the older works, such
as the Niruktam, for example, tend to make emphatic statements with little
sociolinguistic analysis. I can think of a more recent example. Madhav M. 
Deshpande's Sanskrit and Prakrit: Sociolinguistic issues. With undue emphasis
on grammar (pANiNi et al.), the bhASA is relegated to the lowly prakrt 
speaking comedians in a few dramas. I am sure our members of indology can
throw more light on the analytical works for the prakrts. 

Dr. S. Kalyanaraman
 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Thu Oct 12 07:23:42 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 07:23:42 +0000
Subject: Etymology of kSatriya
Message-ID: <161227021180.23782.6030661858493401106.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, L.S.Cousins wrote:

For> example many Sanskrit words were created on the basis of mistaken
> backformations from Prakrit. In some cases the correct Sanskrit form was
> not recognized; in others the Prakrit form did not derive from
> Indo-European at all, but from languages of other  groups, some of which
> are probably no longer extant.

Isn't Sanskrit but the refinement of prakrt? The many phonetic peculiarities
of thousands of head-words (for e.g. recorded in Turner's magnum opus) 
recorded in the so-called indo-aryan tongues attest to this. 

Cousin's point is well made. Lexemes have to be accepted not with a grain
bt a bag of salt. Take the attempts at the translation of the Rgveda; aren't
many words explained based on prakrt forms (apart from contextual, 
sentence-based, internal consistency tests etc.)?

Dr. S. Kalyanaraman
 





From mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk  Thu Oct 12 08:27:26 1995
From: mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 09:27:26 +0100
Subject: Sanskrit Translation
Message-ID: <161227021186.23782.3817320231567659396.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Ema Thurairajah writes:

>I am looking for the meaning of the Sanskrit word "Sutra."
>I know that it is ususally used to mean "story" or more particularly,
>"short story."
>
>I would be interested to know if it also means "Thread," as in "the
>thread of a story."

The original meaning of suutra is no doubt 'thread', but this was early
extended to apply to a specific statement in e.g. a grammatical text. I
have always supposed that the intended metaphor here is that the individual
suutras relate to the grammar as a whole as threads to a piece of cloth. If
so, this is a somewhat similar metaphor to that of the thread of a story,
but not quite the same.

The complication here is that in Middle Indian such forms as the Pali sutta
probably derive (so Richard Gombrich) from Sanskrit suukta 'well-said', not
from suutra. Sutta was later misunderstood (or creatively reinterpreted!)
as from suutra, with the result that Sanskrit suutra acquired many meanings
derived from suukta.

Lance Cousins

MANCHESTER, UK
Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk


 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Thu Oct 12 11:05:54 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 11:05:54 +0000
Subject: Sanskrit Translation
Message-ID: <161227021187.23782.15727454156933105126.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Raghavendra,

The person who asked about whether "sutra" ever means "thread of a story"
(it doesn't, as far as I know) will not see your reply.  S/he isn't a
member of INDOLOGY, and asked to be replied to directly.

Dominik Wujastyk

 





From raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu  Thu Oct 12 21:14:16 1995
From: raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (Narayan S. Raja)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 11:14:16 -1000
Subject: Sanskrit Translation
Message-ID: <161227021197.23782.9921625509256213468.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>




Ema Thurairajah writes:

>I am looking for the meaning of the Sanskrit word "Sutra."
>I know that it is ususally used to mean "story" or more particularly,
>"short story."
>
>I would be interested to know if it also means "Thread," as in "the
>thread of a story."


Well, a dramatist/narrator of a story
can be called "sutradhaara"...

Regards,


Raja.

 





From R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk  Thu Oct 12 13:13:06 1995
From: R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk (rm11)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 13:13:06 +0000
Subject: address
Message-ID: <161227021191.23782.15836902842873059756.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I don't think he or Peter Verhagen are on email; only Harunaga
Issacson seems to be on it.

Btw, Peter Verhagen wrote me recently, advising me to read your
Leiden dissertation for my greater edification. Can you give
me bibliographic details?

I browsed (wityh little time) your work on Yogatantra in
traces in Indonesia; very good work. You make some comments on
Boord: I found his work on the Byang-gter tradition very informative,
but there are some problems in his analysis of the ki_la tradition
as a whole: one gets the imp[ression of great haste. I am also 
wondering how he gets the name Tr.ptacakra for the yum, when all
Tibetan and even secondary sources (eg R.A. Stein) give Di_ptacakra.

Rob Mayer
Lecturer in Religious Studies, University of Wales (Lampeter).

(I live in Canterbury, and use local email, also teaching here
at University of Kent a little, to help out my friends).
 





From jh at cubsps.bio.columbia.edu  Thu Oct 12 17:32:18 1995
From: jh at cubsps.bio.columbia.edu (Jim Hartzell)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 13:32:18 -0400
Subject: Dictionaries
Message-ID: <161227021195.23782.14697186148026680556.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Some of you were kind enough to respond to or comment on an earlier
request I made for information on the publisher of the compact
edition of the Monier-Williams Sanskrit English dictionary.
The distributor was
Meicho Fukyukai, 1-16-6 Tairamachi, Meguro-ku, Tokyo 152, Japan
Tel: 81 (0) 3 3724 8031; fax: 81 (0) 3 33724 8039.
Hayashi was gracious enough to inquire directly with them on my
behalf--they said they have not had copies of it for several years
now.
So the hunt continues.
Does anyone have, or know of someone who has a used copy of this
dictionary they would be willing to sell me?

Hayashi also mentioned to me that a Korean publisher is considering
reprinting the compact edition.  Perhaps with enough people expressing
interest, we could convince a publisher to do so.  I hereby volunteer
to compile the list of interested parties--just send me a message saying you 
are interested.
I'd like to thank the members of the list for several helpful and
courteous responses to various inquiries.
Jim Hartzell
jh at cubsps.bio.columbia.edu
 





From kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za  Thu Oct 12 11:52:21 1995
From: kumar at pixie.udw.ac.za (Pratap Kumar)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 13:52:21 +0200
Subject: Etymology of puujaa
Message-ID: <161227021189.23782.5307955206205970317.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi, Michael,  
Nice to read your views from time to time.  I learned a great deal from 
you during my stay at the CSWR.  

Speaking of puucu and puuja -- and the idea of smearing the guests--

In Hindu weddings and also in traditional Hindu homes in some parts of 
India (e.g., Andhra Pradesh) when a guest comes,he or she is smeared with 
Turmeric paste mixed with sandalwood paste either just under the chin and 
on the neck area or on the feet.  Thus there might be some relationship 
with the idea of honouring the guest. 

Pratap Kumar
 



On Sat, 7 Oct 1995 witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU wrote:

> 
> Regarding the recent discussion.
> 
> 
> Axel Michaels correctly stated Thieme's and Buehnemann's discussions of 
> the word.
> 
> >>>
> according to G. Buehnemann (Puujaa. Vienna 1988, p. 30) the etymology of
>   puujaa has not yet been explained convincingly. Mayrhofer (Kurzgefasstes
>   etymologisches Woerterbuch des Altindischen. 4 vols. Heidelberg 1965-80)
>   suggest a derivation from Tamil puucu 'to smeare'. However, Thieme (Kleine
>   Schriften, p. 792) connects the word with *pRn^ca kR 'to prepare a mixture
>   for someone'. As far as I know there there is no final conclusion regarding
> > its etymology. Buehnemann gives a fair account of the various positions.
> >>>>
> 
> 
> While the etymology remains unclear, it should be taken into accoun that 
> the word, or rather the root, PUUJ occurs even in the Rgveda, though well 
> hidden in an epithet of Indra: zacI-pUjana- 
> This has nothing to do with Indra's (later!, "Homeric" wife, ZacI).
> 
> Further, the root occurs in names in Katha and Maitr. Samhita. It becomes 
> more common only in the Vedic Kalpa Sutras. The old meaning seems to be "to 
> honor" (also in early grammarians: Patanjali or Katyayana [I don't 
> remember which]: rajnaam puujitah) .-- not anything like "to smear" as  
> suggested by Dravidian. 
> You don't smear your teacher or guests (at least not in India)  -----  not 
> even with ointment. 
> (The tilaka/tiika is a question appart, with a rather surprising origin)....
> 
> Though I hesitate to engage in guru-nindaa of my teacher P. Thieme,
> it has to be said that the early occurence makes his particular Prakritic 
> etymology (from which type of unattested Prakrit/Vedic popular speech?) rather 
> unlikely. Details on the Vedic state of things in WZKS XXIV (1980), 
> pp. 21 sqq. --  Thieme's etymology has been critized long ago by Katre.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
 





From kichenas at math.umn.edu  Thu Oct 12 16:15:09 1995
From: kichenas at math.umn.edu (kichenas)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 16:15:09 +0000
Subject: Sanskrit Translation
Message-ID: <161227021193.23782.15999564290641178395.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In addition to Lance Cousins remarks, it may be useful to note the
Tamil nUl, which means both text and thread, among other things.
Its usage should be contrasted with cuvaTi, cUttiram, and
puttakam in particular.

                                Satyanad Kichenassamy
                                School of Mathematics
                                University of Minnesota
                                E-mail: kichenas at math.umn.edu

 





From Saravina at aol.com  Thu Oct 12 21:17:30 1995
From: Saravina at aol.com (Saravina at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 17:17:30 -0400
Subject: Dictionaries
Message-ID: <161227021199.23782.3403785516736101727.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Yes, I'd like a dictionary -- please add me to the list.
jensine
 





From athr at loc.gov  Thu Oct 12 21:54:08 1995
From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 17:54:08 -0400
Subject: PUBLISHER OF NABANKER
Message-ID: <161227021203.23782.214558563237845030.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This is the Library of Congress online record of the title, without 
diacritics or 
publication data (because at that time it was given on the printed 
catalog cards in the vernacular script only):

76-984292
PK1730 .36 .N933 N3 (Orien Ben)
Sanyal, Sulekha, 1930-
Nabankura
[1955]
282 p. 23 cm.

An examination of the book gets the following publisher, etc.:

Calcutta : Granthagara, 15/1/A Chandiwari St.
distributed by: National Book Agency, 12, Bankim Chatterjee St.

An examination of the current telephone book gives no entry for 
Granthagara but confirms the address for National Book Agency, and adds 
the postal zone Calcutta-73 and telephone 31-1432.

Allen W. Thrasher
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Library of Congress
Washington, DC 20540-4774
tel. 202-707-5600
fax  202-707-1724
Email: athr at loc.gov

On 12 Oct 1995, MAIL.INDOLOGY wrote:
> From: Reganch at aol.com 
> To: Members of the list <indology at liverpool.ac.uk> 
> Subject: publisher of nabanker 
>   
> Could someone tell me who published Sulekha Sanyal's book Nabanker? The 
> mailing address would be a help too. thanks. 
>   
> 
 





From eclear at bronze.ucs.indiana.edu  Fri Oct 13 02:00:21 1995
From: eclear at bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (edeltraud harzer clear)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 21:00:21 -0500
Subject: Dictionaries
Message-ID: <161227021204.23782.15205020356756946787.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I would like several copies of the dictionary for my
students. It seems that the Korean edition is not as 
compact as the Japanese one (if the Korean publisher
is Minjoksa Publishing in Seoul), since the dimensions
given by Minjoksa are closer to the edition of Motilal
Banarsidass. What a wonderful idea to persuade the
publisher to reprint the Dictionary. Thank you.
Edeltraud Harzer Clear, Indiana University, Bloomington,
In. 
eclear at bronze.ucs.indiana.edu
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Thu Oct 12 21:33:48 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 22:33:48 +0100
Subject: Dictionaries
Message-ID: <161227021201.23782.8133471751293557846.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Yes, I'd like a dictionary -- please add me to the list too.

Dominik 




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Dominik Wujastyk,     |                        email:  D.Wujastyk at uk.ac.ucl 
Wellcome Institute for   |                           or:   dow at harvunxw.bitnet
 the History of Medicine,|                           or: dow at wjh12.harvard.edu
183 Euston Road,         |                          FAX:      +44 171 611 8545
London NW1 2BE, England. |  Phone (& answering machine):      +44 171 611-8467 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Fri Oct 13 07:38:22 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 07:38:22 +0000
Subject: ayurveda
Message-ID: <161227021206.23782.10855124238769161217.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dominik;

If I recall right, a few months ago, you had mentioned about a multi-volume
publication recently brought out on the indian medicinal plants.

I shall be grateful if you can kindly provide me this info. so that I can
ask local bookseller to buy it for the centre.

thanks.

Dr. S. Kalyanaraman
Indus Sarasvati Research Centre
email: mdsaaa48 at giasmd01.VSNL.net.in
 





From aparpola at cc.helsinki.fi  Fri Oct 13 05:57:56 1995
From: aparpola at cc.helsinki.fi (Asko H S Parpola)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 07:57:56 +0200
Subject: Etymology of puujaa
Message-ID: <161227021209.23782.9018822779209210879.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Pratap Kumar wrote:

> Hi, Michael,  
> Nice to read your views from time to time.  I learned a great deal from 
> you during my stay at the CSWR.  
> 
> Speaking of puucu and puuja -- and the idea of smearing the guests--
> 
> In Hindu weddings and also in traditional Hindu homes in some parts of 
> India (e.g., Andhra Pradesh) when a guest comes,he or she is smeared with 
> Turmeric paste mixed with sandalwood paste either just under the chin and 
> on the neck area or on the feet.  Thus there might be some relationship 
> with the idea of honouring the guest. 
> 
> Pratap Kumar
>  
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 7 Oct 1995 witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Regarding the recent discussion.
> > 
> > 
> > Axel Michaels correctly stated Thieme's and Buehnemann's discussions of 
> > the word.
> > 
> > >>>
> > according to G. Buehnemann (Puujaa. Vienna 1988, p. 30) the etymology of
> >   puujaa has not yet been explained convincingly. Mayrhofer (Kurzgefasstes
> >   etymologisches Woerterbuch des Altindischen. 4 vols. Heidelberg 1965-80)
> >   suggest a derivation from Tamil puucu 'to smeare'. However, Thieme (Kleine
> >   Schriften, p. 792) connects the word with *pRn^ca kR 'to prepare a mixture
> >   for someone'. As far as I know there there is no final conclusion regarding
> > > its etymology. Buehnemann gives a fair account of the various positions.
> > >>>>
> > 
> > 
> > While the etymology remains unclear, it should be taken into accoun that 
> > the word, or rather the root, PUUJ occurs even in the Rgveda, though well 
> > hidden in an epithet of Indra: zacI-pUjana- 
> > This has nothing to do with Indra's (later!, "Homeric" wife, ZacI).
> > 
> > Further, the root occurs in names in Katha and Maitr. Samhita. It becomes 
> > more common only in the Vedic Kalpa Sutras. The old meaning seems to be "to 
> > honor" (also in early grammarians: Patanjali or Katyayana [I don't 
> > remember which]: rajnaam puujitah) .-- not anything like "to smear" as  
> > suggested by Dravidian. 
> > You don't smear your teacher or guests (at least not in India)  -----  not 
> > even with ointment. 
> > (The tilaka/tiika is a question appart, with a rather surprising origin)....
> > 
> > Though I hesitate to engage in guru-nindaa of my teacher P. Thieme,
> > it has to be said that the early occurence makes his particular Prakritic 
> > etymology (from which type of unattested Prakrit/Vedic popular speech?) rather 
> > unlikely. Details on the Vedic state of things in WZKS XXIV (1980), 
> > pp. 21 sqq. --  Thieme's etymology has been critized long ago by Katre.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
>  
> 
> 

If puujaa originally refers to worship, the Dravidian etymology from the 
root puucu 'to smear' is quite acceptable. We must remember that among the 
oldest objects of worship in South Asia are the sacred trees, and 
smearing the tree trunks with red-coloured powders and oils was an 
integral part of the early tree cult (cf. e.g. J. Auboyer, Daily life in 
ancient India, 1961, page 154). The Rgvedic sense 'to honour' may 
be due to a secondary widening of the meaning.  ---

Asko Parpola  (E-mail Asko.Parpola at Helsinki.Fi)
----------------------------------------------------------
Department of Asian and African Studies, Univ. of Helsinki


 





From ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU  Fri Oct 13 13:15:36 1995
From: ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU (ACHARB at MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 08:15:36 -0500
Subject: ayurveda
Message-ID: <161227021217.23782.5125767346684256297.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>From:	IN%"indology at liverpool.ac.uk" 13-OCT-1995 08:01:27.30
>Subj:	RE: ayurveda
>
>Domink; thanks a lot for yourkind and prompt assistance.
>regards. namaskaram.
>kalyanaraman.
> 
 





From aparpola at cc.helsinki.fi  Fri Oct 13 06:18:11 1995
From: aparpola at cc.helsinki.fi (Asko H S Parpola)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 08:18:11 +0200
Subject: Etymology of puujaa
Message-ID: <161227021210.23782.15863631394164328449.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I just pointed out that smearing (implied by the Dravidian etymology from 
puucu 'to smear') constitutes an integral part of the early worship of 
trees. I referred to Auboyer's book, where red-coloured powders and oils 
are mentioned as the substances smeared on tree trunks. The 
red-coloured powders surely are substitutes for the blood of sacrificed 
victims, which continues being smeared on cult idols or trees in 
connection with bloody offerings. Red powder/blood is applied also on the 
forehead of human beings on such ritual occasions - this is the origin of 
the forehead mark (Dravidian poTTu, Sanskrit tilaka, Tiikaa / Tikaa < 
lalaaTikaa). The antiquity of the forehead mark and its Harappan / 
Dravidian origin in India is discussed extensively in my book 'Deciphering 
the Indus script' (1994), page 261-272.

---

Asko Parpola  (E-mail Asko.Parpola at Helsinki.Fi)
----------------------------------------------------------
Department of Asian and African Studies, Univ. of Helsinki


 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Fri Oct 13 10:02:40 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 10:02:40 +0000
Subject: ayurveda
Message-ID: <161227021212.23782.6790187959615718767.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

DR.S.KALYANARAMAN said:
> If I recall right, a few months ago, you had mentioned about a multi-volume
> publication recently brought out on the indian medicinal plants.
> 
> I shall be grateful if you can kindly provide me this info. so that I can
> ask local bookseller to buy it for the centre.

If it's the one I think you mean, it is

_Indian Medicinal Plants: a compendium of 500 species_ ed. by
Vaidyaratnam P. S. Varier's Arya Vaidya Sala, Kottakal.  Madras: Orient
Longman, 1994- .  I have three volumes, but no. 4 should be out by now.

Another very good recent book from the same stable, but with a
different, and more botanical, slant is
V. V. Sivarajan and Indira Balachandran, _Ayurvedic drugs and thier
plant sources_.  New Delhi etc., Oxford and IBH Publishing, 1994.

Best wishes,

Dominik


-- 

Dominik Wujastyk,
Wellcome Institute,
183 Euston Road,
London NW1 2BE.

FAX: +44 171 611 8545
email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk

For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page:
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html

 





From WHARMAN at DEPAUW.EDU  Fri Oct 13 15:36:52 1995
From: WHARMAN at DEPAUW.EDU (WILLIAM HARMAN)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 10:36:52 -0500
Subject: Etymology of puujaa
Message-ID: <161227021224.23782.5253539469085106115.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


While we are discussing possible -- and theoretical -- etymologies of
"puuja" in Tamil, it may be of interest to note a widespread folk
etymology of the term I found in the Tirunelvelli and Madurai Districts
of Tamilnadu. Priests frequently insisted that the word comes from a
compound of the Tamil terms "puu" (flower) and "cey" (to do or make).
Doing puja, they insisted, derives from worship that involved an offering
of flowers. My own disclaimer is that I never ceased to be amazed by
the creative etymologies that Tamil chauvinism managed to find. The
orange, for example, was regarded as originally a Tamil word, describing
the "six" or "five"  ("aaru" or "ainju) sections of that fruit.
So, beware..;a<OY|0

					W. Harman
					DePauw University
 





From lorenzen at colmex.mx  Fri Oct 13 17:51:33 1995
From: lorenzen at colmex.mx (David Lorenzen S.)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 11:51:33 -0600
Subject: Mirabai manuscripts
Message-ID: <161227021227.23782.16318901872080426202.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


In partial answer to Peter Friedlander's query.  The text of 
Sukhasaran's "Mirambai ri parachi" has been published in "Parampara", the 
series put out by the Rajasthani Shodh Samsthan in Jodhpur (1970).  The 
original manuscript is I think in the same institution.

David
 





From pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu  Fri Oct 13 19:11:21 1995
From: pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu (pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 12:11:21 -0700
Subject: Mirabai manuscripts
Message-ID: <161227021230.23782.7344607740472417812.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Please try Nancy Martin-Kershaw, a PhD candidate at UC Berkeley,
working under Linda Hess.  SHe is doing her dissertation on Mirabai.
Peter Claus
 


>?From THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV 13 1995 Oct EST 14:50:14
Date: 13 Oct 1995 14:50:14 EST
Reply-To: THRASHER <THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV>
From: ALLEN W THRASHER <THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV>
Subject: RE: ORIGIN OF PUUJAA

          For  examples  of  creative  chauvinism,  a   pamphlet  we   have 
          (currently disappeared into processing)  on  the  origin  of  the 
          English language from Tulu tops the Tamil orange. 
           
          Allen Thrasher 
          Library of Congress                                               
 





From ersand at coco.ihi.ku.dk  Fri Oct 13 14:21:32 1995
From: ersand at coco.ihi.ku.dk (Erik Reenberg Sand)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 15:21:32 +0100
Subject: addresses (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227021219.23782.9654188060181911098.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 08:30:56 BST
From: GRUENENDAHL <GRUENEN at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
To: Members of the list <indology at liverpool.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: addresses

> Date sent:      Mon,  9 Oct 1995 18:28:41 BST
> Send reply to:  indology at liverpool.ac.uk
> From:           torella at axrma.uniroma1.it (Raffaele Torella)
> To:             Members of the list <indology at liverpool.ac.uk>
> Subject:        addresses


> Could anybody give me the email address or fax number of Prof. H.
> Bechert and Prof. Ch. Lindtner ?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Raffaele Torella
> 
> Raffaele Torella
> ecc....
> 




Prof. Bechert has no individual email-address. However, you can 
contact him via Dr. Klaus Wille at the Goettingen Seminar:

KWILLE at GWDG.DE



Reinhold Gruenendahl
Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek
37070 Goettingen
Germany
Phone: 0551/395283

 
Chr. Lindtner has been dismissed from the University of Copenhagen some 
years ago and I doubt very much whether he is on e-mail. His private 
address is:

Tovesvej 6,
DK-2850 Naerum,
Denmark


Erik Reenberg Sand
Institute for the History of Religions
University of Copenhagen
Njalsgade 80
DK-2300 Kbh. S
Denmark
 





From ersand at coco.ihi.ku.dk  Fri Oct 13 14:33:51 1995
From: ersand at coco.ihi.ku.dk (Erik Reenberg Sand)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 15:33:51 +0100
Subject: addresses
Message-ID: <161227021222.23782.3164345208333579276.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>




On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Jayandra Soni wrote:

> >Could anybody give me the email address or fax number of Prof. H.
> >Bechert and Prof. Ch. Lindtner ?
> >
> >Thank you.
> >
> >Raffaele Torella
> >
> >Raffaele Torella
> >ecc....
> >
> 
> 
>  Prof.Dr. H. Bechert, Seminar fuer Indologie und Buddhismuskunde,
> Hainbundstrasse 21, Goettingen, D-37085, phone: (0551)57068;
> Hermann-Foege-Weg 1a, Goettingen, D-37085, phone(0551)485765 (from "German
> Indology" compiled by Agnes Stache-Weiske, Munich 1988).
> 
> Dr Christian Lindtner, University of Kopenhagen, Institute of Oriental
> Philology, Njalsgade 80, DK23 (?); Kobenhavn S. Denmark, Tovesvej 6 DK-2850
> Naerum (from the list of participants for the Jaina Coference in Toronto,
> January 1995).
> 
> Dr. Chr. Lindtner has been dismissed from the University some years ago 
and has probably no e-mail address, but the above mentioned private 
address (Tovesvej 6 etc.) is, as far as I know, still valid

Erik Reenberg Sand
Institute for the History of Religions
University of Copenhagen
Njalsgade 80
DK-2300 S
Denmark 
 


>?From P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk 13 95 Oct EDT 16:02:00
Date: 13 Oct 95 16:02:00 EDT
From: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk
Subject: Mirabai manuscripts
Reply-To: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Hello list members
Someone has given me a copy of an illustrated life of Mirabai to look at. 
The text seems to be based on the Bhaktamala and Bhaktirasabodhani texts and 
is accompanied by twenty miniatures of scenes from her life. 
My question is this. Has anyone else seen such a manuscript or know of the 
existence of any similar manuscripts?

Dr Peter G. Friedlander
Cataloguer of Hindi and Panjabi Manuscripts
Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine
183 Euston Road
London NW1 2BN
England
tel: 0171 611 8468
e-mail: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk
 





From thuraira at pilot.msu.edu  Fri Oct 13 17:05:01 1995
From: thuraira at pilot.msu.edu (What's In a Name?)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 17:05:01 +0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <161227021235.23782.16780165088513012252.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi
                        -[snow home]-

thurairajah at dirac.pa.msu.edu      thuraira at pilot.msu.edu         
                      af899 at torfree.net
Internet Fax: remote-printer.Ema at 6.8.2.8.7.8.2.6.1.4.1.tpc.int

           "there is really nothing you must be,
            and there is nothing you must do,
            there is really nothing you must have.
            And there is nothing you must know.
            There is nothing you must become.
            However, it helps to understand that fire burns,
            And when it rains the earth gets wet . . ."
                                        -Zen Scroll

        
 





From kichenas at math.umn.edu  Fri Oct 13 17:19:03 1995
From: kichenas at math.umn.edu (kichenas)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 17:19:03 +0000
Subject: Etymology of puujaa
Message-ID: <161227021229.23782.13479662128998772914.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

About W. Harman's remark on `orange,' shouldn't we look
at nArtta.nkAy rather than ARu or aintu?


                                Satyanad Kichenassamy
                                School of Mathematics
                                University of Minnesota
                                E-mail: kichenas at math.umn.edu

 


>?From THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV 13 1995 Oct EST 12:03:12
Date: 13 Oct 1995 12:03:12 EST
Reply-To: THRASHER <THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV>
From: ALLEN W THRASHER <THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV>
Subject: RECENT MOGUL GENEALOGY

          Does anyone know if there is anything published on  the genealogy 
          of descendants of the Mogul dynasty AFTER 1957?  Also, can anyone 
          confirm  or disconfirm my impression that  the British government 
          of  India and  the  GOI after independence until the abolition of 
          privy  purses  paid  small pensions to descendants of  the  Mogul 
          emperors?  If  so, which office would have handled this  and  the 
          genealogical record keeping necessary?  Finally, can  anyone tell 
          me if there is a Waqf for Moguls in Delhi or elsewhere? 
           
          I  ask because a patron wants  to investigate a  family tradition 
          they are descendants of the last Mogul, Bahadur Shah Zafar. 
           
          Thanks for any help, 
           
          Allen Thrasher 
          Library of Congress 
          thrasher at mail.loc.gov                                             
 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Fri Oct 13 18:16:56 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 18:16:56 +0000
Subject: ayurveda
Message-ID: <161227021214.23782.5669425994274624673.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Domink; thanks a lot for yourkind and prompt assistance.
regards. namaskaram.
kalyanaraman.
 





From kichenas at math.umn.edu  Fri Oct 13 20:36:29 1995
From: kichenas at math.umn.edu (kichenas)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 20:36:29 +0000
Subject: orange
Message-ID: <161227021232.23782.4102672446887867581.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Further to my comment on `orange' and nArtta.nkAy,
I'd like to mention that Webster's derives orange
from a Dravidian origin, via Skt, Arabic, Persian, 
Old Provencal, French, and finally, Middle English.
I refrained from reproducing the entry due to possible
copyright problems.


                                Satyanad Kichenassamy
                                School of Mathematics
                                University of Minnesota
                                E-mail: kichenas at math.umn.edu
 





From n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de  Fri Oct 13 20:56:53 1995
From: n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de (n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 21:56:53 +0100
Subject: Etymology of kSatriya
Message-ID: <161227021246.23782.864494279878716341.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>
>DR.S.KALYANARAMAN said:
>> If we keep quoting sentences,
>> we will end up writing books for each morpheme.
>
>Yes.  I consider C. S. Lewis's _Studies in Words_ to be one of the
>finest such books, for example.  For me, this is the linguistic
>equivalent of Geertz's "thick description" in social anthropology.  It
>would be marvellous to have such subtle and searching studies for
>Sanskrit words and concepts.  Of course quite a lot has been done: I
>think immediately of van Buitenen's fine studies of "citta", "ahankara"
>and related words.
>
>Dominik

Dear Dominik,

can you please give me this reference to the study of "citta" and
 "ahamkAra"? When you are at it, you mentioned recently your 
interest in the history of science in South Asia. 
Is there some good book written recently that you can suggest? 

More generally, can Indology members suggest introductory 
books on themes and concepts found in Samkhya that can be used 
for Philosophy introductory courses? I am looking for  
(Analytic Philodophy style)conceptual 
elucidations  on conepts like "Buddhi", "ParinAma", "jIva" etc. Though
 I studied Indian Philosophy back in 70s in India, it was of a very very
 elementary nature, and since then my acquaintance with books on
 Indian Philosophy are of chance encounters. Though I have come across 
some text books written specifically for American College courses, 
 they appear to me more of the nature of general introduction to Indian 
civilization rather than on the conceptual specificities of Indian Traditions. 

My intention to look into Indian philosophy is the following: I surmise 
that possibilities of  alternative types of conceptualising the human faculties 
can be found in concepts like "Buddhi" - which is not the same as the notion of 
"intellect" or "reason" as found in the Aristotelian and Modern philosophical 
traditions.   

If possible, I want to combine my study with the teaching obligations I have. 
In German Universities, a course is constitued by a  weekly session of a
hour and a half  for 13 to 14 weeks. The course is generally through 
reading the texts and discussing it. I am wondering whether reading 
the sAmkhya kArikA (of course, in translation) together
 along with commentaries and secondary texts would be an option. 
Any suggestions? 

Thanks in advance to all those who are willing to help. 
Dr. B. Narahari Rao
F.R. 5.1. Philosophie
Unversitaet des Saarlandes,
Postfach 15 11 50,
D-66041 Saarbr?cken

 





From n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de  Fri Oct 13 21:23:07 1995
From: n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de (n.rao at rz.uni-sb.de)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 22:23:07 +0100
Subject: Dictionaries
Message-ID: <161227021249.23782.15606112247830841870.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>I too am interested
Dr. B. Narahari Rao
F.R. 5.1. Philosophie
Unversitaet des Saarlandes,
Postfach 15 11 50,
D-66041 Saarbr?cken

 





From d.keown at gold.ac.uk  Fri Oct 13 22:56:58 1995
From: d.keown at gold.ac.uk (d.keown at gold.ac.uk)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 23:56:58 +0100
Subject: JBE Publication News: 10th October 1995
Message-ID: <161227021237.23782.12672683154144537544.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

-----------------------------------------------
JOURNAL OF BUDDHIST ETHICS
-----------------------------------------------

GENERAL EDITORS:     Damien Keown (Goldsmiths, London),
                     Charles S. Prebish (Penn State)

TECHNICAL EDITOR:    Wayne Husted (Penn State)

BOOK REVIEW EDITOR:  Karen Lang (Virginia)

EDITORIAL BOARD:

Masao Abe (Nara), George Bond (Northwestern), David Chappell
(Hawaii), Lance Cousins (Manchester), Richard Gombrich
(Oxford), Charles Hallisey (Harvard), Ian Harris (St Martin's,
Lancaster), Peter Harvey (Sunderland), Richard Hayes (McGill),
Christopher Ives (Puget Sound), Leslie Kawamura (Calgary), Winston
King (Emeritus, Vanderbilt), Kenneth Kraft (Lehigh University),
Karen Lang (Virginia), Reginald Ray (Colorado), Lambert Schmithausen
(Hamburg), Robert Thurman (Columbia), Paul Williams (Bristol).

The editors are pleased to announce the publication of the following
Research Article:

GETTING TO GRIPS WITH BUDDHIST ENVIRONMENTALISM: A PROVISIONAL
TYPOLOGY

IAN HARRIS
University College of St. Martin
Dept of Religious Studies and Social Ethics
Lancaster LA1 3JD, UK
E-mail: i.harris at lancaster.ac.uk

Publication Date: October 10th, 1995

ABSTRACT

This paper offers a survey of current writing and practice within the
area of Buddhist environmental ethics. Consideration of the manner in
which sections of contemporary Buddhism have embraced a range of
environmental concerns suggests that four fairly distinct types of
discourse are in the process of formation, i.e. eco-spirituality,
eco-justice, eco-traditionalism and eco-apologetics. This fourfold
typology is described and examples of each type are discussed. The
question of the 'authenticity', from the Buddhist perspective, is
addressed to each type in turn.

Citation: Vol. 2 1995: 173-190
Directory: /vol 2
Filename: Harris.txt
Publication Date: 10 October 1995


 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Sat Oct 14 08:26:11 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 95 08:26:11 +0000
Subject: Etymology of puujaa
Message-ID: <161227021239.23782.6447505226102003985.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, WILLIAM HARMAN wrote:
> of Tamilnadu. Priests frequently insisted that the word comes from a
> compound of the Tamil terms "puu" (flower) and "cey" (to do or make).
> Doing puja, they insisted, derives from worship that involved an offering
> of flowers. My own disclaimer is that I never ceased to be amazed by
> the creative etymologies that Tamil chauvinism managed to find. The
> 
Maybe,this is not so creative an etymology. If I remember right,
Burrow and Emeneau in their lexicon point this out as the etymology
of pUjA, and as an instance of Sanskrit borrowing from Dravidian.

Dr. S. Kalyanaraman
Indus Sarasvati Research Centre,
20 Warren Road #7, Mylapore, Madras 600004
Tel. 91-44-4936288; fax. 91-44-4996380
 





From Sfauthor at aol.com  Sat Oct 14 20:38:15 1995
From: Sfauthor at aol.com (Sfauthor at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 95 16:38:15 -0400
Subject: Bookstores in Madras?
Message-ID: <161227021241.23782.7588734706506072638.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

My wife and I will be going to Madras early next year. I would like to
purchase some sanskrit books while I'm there.

Does anyone have recommendations regarding indological bookstores? Does
Motilal have a store in Madras? Is the Adyar Library still alive and well?

Any advice would be most welcome. Thank you all.

Brian Akers
sfauthor at aol.com

 





From skjain at server.uwindsor.ca  Sat Oct 14 23:07:35 1995
From: skjain at server.uwindsor.ca (S Jain)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 95 19:07:35 -0400
Subject: ayurveda
Message-ID: <161227021244.23782.16006296733960256718.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Ayurveda

I don't know how much useful will be the following list of books
on ayurveda to those who already know so much about the ancient
Indian system of medicine. But for whatever is its worth I
reproduce here a list of books on ayurveda from Biblia Impex
catalogue (Oct. 1995) which may be of interest to some.

1. Astanga hrdayam of Vagbhatta, text, Eng. tr. notes [etc] by KR
Srikanta Murthy. 3 vols. Varanasi: Krishnadas Acad., 1995.

2. Cakradatta, text with Eng. tr. ... by  Priya Vrat Sharma.
Delhi: Chaukhamba Orientalia, 1994.

3. Cakradatta-Ratnaprabha ... with the comm. ... by Sri Niscala
Kara, ed. by P.V. Sharma. Jaipur: Swami Jayaramdas Ramprakash
Trust, 1993.

4. Cakradatta of Cakrapranidatta, with 'tattvacandraki'
explanations and annotations of Sri Sivadas Sen... Delhi:
Chaukhamba Orientalia, 1993.

5. Caraka samhita: Agnivesa's treatise ... redacted by Drdhabala
... and Eng. tr. by P.V. Sharma. 4 vols. Delhi: Chaukhamba
Orientalia, 1994.

6. Carakasamhita of Agnicesa with Auyervedadipika and
Jalpakalpataru comms of Sri Cakrapanidatta and Gangadhara ed. by
N.N. Sengupta. 5 vols. 2nd ed. repr. Varanasi: Vidya Vilasa
Press, 1990.

7. Carakasamhita of Agnivesa, Sanskrit text with a new English
tr. ... by Ram Karan Sharma and Bhagwan Dash. 3 vols. Varanasi:
Chowkhamba, 1988.

8. Encyclopaedia of Indian medicine, vol. 1-3 ed by S.K.
Ramchandra Rao. Bangalore: Kalpatharu Res. Acad., 1988 (to be
completed in 8 vols).

9. Frawley, David et al: The Yoga of herbs: an ayurvedic guide to
herbal medicine. Ist Indian ed. Delhi: Motilal, 1994.

10. History of Medicine in India from antiquity to 1000 AD, ed by
Priya Vrat Sharma. New Delhi, INSA, 1992.

11. Kirtikar, KR et al. Indian medicinal plants. 8 vols. reprint.
Dehra Dun: Bishan Singh, 1985.

12. Materia medica of ayurveda based on Mandanapala's nighantu by
Vaidya Bhagwan Das and Kanchan Gupta. New Delhi: B Jain Pub,
1991.

13. Nadkarni, KM, Indian materia medica with Ayurvedic, Unani,
Tibbi, Siddha [etc]... repr. Bombay: Popular, n.d.
14. Ranade, Subhash. Natural healing through ayurveda. Delhi:
Motilal, 

15. Rasa-jala-nidhi or ocean of Indian chemistry, medicine and
alchemy, comp in Sanskrit with Eng tr by Bhudeb Mookerjee. 5
vols. Varanasi: Srigokul Mudranalaya, 1985.

16. Sengupta, Nagendranath. The ayurvedic system of medicine. 2
vols. NDelhi: Concept.

17. Susruta samhita of Sushruta with the Nibandhagrantha comm of
Shri Dalhanacarya, ed. by Jadavji Trikamji. repr. Varanasi:
Chaukhamba Surbharati, 1994.

18. Susrutta samhita ... Eng. tr. ... by Kunjalal Bhishagratna. 3
vols. Varanasi: Chowkhamba, 

19. Susruta-samhita: section on the study of human body, text
with English tr and comm by Dinkar Govind Thatte... 3 vols.
Delhi: Chaukhamba orientalia, 1994.

20. Susrutasamhita of Susruta ... ed by Jadavji Trikamji and
Narayan Ram. 4th ed. Delhi: Chaukhamba Orientalia, 1992.

21. Todarananda-ayurveda saukhyam series, ed. by Vaidya Bhagwan
Dash and Vaidya lalitesh Kashyap. NDelhi: Concept, 1988.
     vol. 1 Materia medica of ayurveda
     vol. 2 Basic principles of ayurveda
     vols 3-7 Diagnosis and treatment of diseases in ayurveda
     vol. 8 Five specialised therapies of ayurveda (panca-karma)
     vol. 9 Latro-chemistry of ayurveda.

-------------------------
Typographical mistakes may have occurred during key-boarding or during 
uploading of this file.
--------------------------------------------------------------
 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Sun Oct 15 06:46:25 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 06:46:25 +0000
Subject: Bookstores in Madras?
Message-ID: <161227021251.23782.8836608648038749949.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Sat, 14 Oct 1995 Sfauthor at aol.com wrote:
> My wife and I will be going to Madras early next year. I would like to
> purchase some sanskrit books while I'm there.
> Brian Akers
> sfauthor at aol.com
Adyar library is alive and well. Motilal has a bookstore near Luz, Mylapore.
There is also Jayalakshmi Bookstore in APparswamikoil st. near Sanskrit
college, Madras also near Luz. There is also Kuppuswami Research Inst.
library in the college. 

I will be very happy to help you when you are in Madras. Please feel free
to contact me at any time. Regards.
Dr. S. Kalyanaraman tel. 91-44-4936288; fax. 91-44-4996380
email: mdsaaa48 at giasmd01.VSNL.net.in
 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Sun Oct 15 06:53:28 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 06:53:28 +0000
Subject: Etymology of kSatriya
Message-ID: <161227021253.23782.11660187148781781059.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Sun, 15 Oct 1995, Narahari Rao wrote:

> Is there some good book written recently that you can suggest? 
The most recent work is that of the late Prof. Debiprasad Chattopadhyaya:
two volumes areout: History of Science and Technology in Ancien India.

I remember this because I have conributed a chapter on Indian Alchemy
in volume 2. I will send you more references as soon as the library
in the centre is set up in about two weeks.

Best of luck with your studies. Regards.
Dr. S. Kalyanaraman Indus Sarasvati Research Centre
 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Sun Oct 15 06:55:58 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 06:55:58 +0000
Subject: Dictionaries
Message-ID: <161227021255.23782.9716931199741011594.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	I am interested. Please add me to the list. thanks.

Dr. S. Kalyanaraman
Indus Sarasvati Research Centre,
20 Warren Road #7, Mylapore, Madras 600004
Tel. 91-44-493-6288; fax. 91-44-4996380
email: mdsaaa48 at giasmd01.VSNL.net.in
 





From lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu  Sun Oct 15 15:51:50 1995
From: lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu (Lance Nelson)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 08:51:50 -0700
Subject: Dictionaries
Message-ID: <161227021258.23782.16015708621251485782.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Me too.

Lance Nelson
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Lance Nelson                           Phone/Voice Mail: 619-260-4054
Theological & Religious Studies                     FAX: 619-260-2260
University of San Diego                 E-mail: lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu 
San Diego, CA 92110-2492                                       U.S.A.
---------------------------------------------------------------------



 





From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Mon Oct 16 05:22:21 1995
From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 01:22:21 -0400
Subject: AGAIN: Puujaa
Message-ID: <161227021264.23782.8339056251549650058.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



By now we have seen a lot of discussion on the (im)possible and probable 
etymologies of this important word and the ROOT  puuj.

Nevertheless some  clarification is in order, I believe.

1. etymologies usually have two aspects:

-- the sounds/ form of the word in question 

      unless a loan word,

      (such as the recent disc. of "orange" -- all relevant info in 
      Manfred Mayrhofer, KEWA -- in German AND English, or now,in his  
      Etymologisches Woerterbuch des Altindischen) 

      the sounds of the word must conform to well-established rules of 
      sound shift (from Indo-aryan to Vedic, to Prakrit etc.)  

      Secondary loans (back) from Prakrit to Sanskrit usually are easily 
      detectable due to the shape of the word
      (remember aksauhinii form 1st year lesson of Nala? see Mayrhofer!) 

      Loans from Dravidian or other non-Indo-aryan languages also are 
      frequently easily detectable due to the shape of teh root 
      syllable or of the whole word.     

      ( Cf. the list in Kuiper, Aryans in the Rgveda; for ex.,
      pra-maganda  in RV  has, in spite of "Vedic" pra-  an non-IA shape : 
      there is no root/suffix which may explain the word maganda in IA/Skt)
       
<<And in spite of the omni-comparativistic combinations made by some on this 
list in the discussion of etymologies: e.g. Greek theos and Aztek 
<Nahuatl> teo look similar and mean "god" -- but there is no linguistic 
connection... -- On the other hand, Skt. vaiDuurya and German 'Brille' 
"spectacles/glasses" don't look very similar and do not really mean the 
same thing, but the German word is an indirect loan from Skt., see 
Mayrhofer,-- however, as can be established easily due to the rules of sound 
shift, NOT inherited from a common Indo_european word from which both words
might derive. Similarity in sounds alone doesn't do it, and similarity in 
meaning certainly isn't enough.... The case of Tulu mentioned recently is 
a perfect example. This is not new, rather:  Wing Commander XY of the Indian 
Air Force has published this years ago in the Indian press:
Heading: Tulu is the mother of English. Proof: Tulu, just like English, does 
not have the sound "f" (??!! anybody listening to TV would 
strongly diagree!) and 2nd: Tulu hekkatte "hickup" clinches it! This, in 
four columns in the Hindustan Times some 5 years ago...>>>

 --  the MEANING of the word and the ones compared in other languages.
     
      This usually is the tricky part.
      While we may get curious developments in two closely related 
      languages  such as 
     
        English  dog   :: German  Dogge "blood hound"
        English  hound :: German  Hund "dog"

     Things usually are not that easy...The connection between the 
     meanings in two languages may be close to the meaning in one language 
     or very, VERY distant due to a missing link we do not know  or cannot 
     see anymore.   

      A typical case is Vedic / Skt. deva "god" :: Iranian (Avesta) 
      daeva "demon".This "contradiction"is, of course as, is well known, 
      due to Zoroaster's reform.

Which brings us back to PUUJAA

A good etymology is not in sight:


(a.) the root is first attested in the Rgveda. Exact meaning unknown.
the same applies to the few attestations (all names!)  before the Sutras.
(List in my article in WZKS)
Then, it is clear that it means "honoring". 

(b.) How to honor someone in (Vedic!/proto-Dravidian, Proto-Munda!!)  India 
is a question that must be investigated separately , --- beginning, of 
course,  with our oldest sources: 
Rgveda, Vedic texts, early Pali texts, Mahabharata (date?)...

One cannot simply compare Rgvedic -puujana- with modern or medieval 
worhip of trees, gods, guests. That is precisely why I apodictically wrote 
that one does not smear one's teacher or guest-- at least not in (vedic) India.

S'lesha apart, this is precisely what is NOT done, according to the texts.

You wash the feet, give a madhuparka, slaughter a sheep or a cow, give a 
gift,  etc. etc. -- all well detailed in the Grhyasutras.. -- 
But you do not smear one's forehead with red color or blood nor does one 
perform an abhisheka:  that is done at other occasions, all linked to 
nobility and the installation of a chieftain or a king ( collection of 
materials in Witzel, The coronation rituals of Nepal... in:Niels Gutschow 
and  Axel Michaels, Heritage of teh Kathmandu Valley, St., Augustin 1987: 
includes Vedic materials)..

The Vedic, Proto-Dravidian speakers, Indus people, Proto-Munda speakers may 
have done all of this : but where is the EARLY TEXT that says so?
Even if, say, the Mahabharata (date??) or a Pali text has an exact 
description of the practice (Caitya trees in Pali!) we are many centuries
too late. By that time things can have changed several times over since 
the Indus seals or the Rgveda...

Thus : even in that case, there might be, if well investigated,  
probablility --  but not: certainty!


HOWEVER, there are indeed interesting hints which I did not want to 
mention last time as the materials are incomplete. Some 5 years ago I 
made a quick investigation of the word tilaka (Nepali: tiikaa etc., 
Turner's (5458 Tilla, Tillaka, 5827 tila (< Munda?) "sesame" (Atharvaveda 
++), 5828 tila "mole on the skin" etc., and still:  "caste mark" (!).

The older Skt. sources are very scarce indeed. Tilaka mostly refers to a 
tree... not the mark on the forehead.

However, even a late texts such as the Kashmirian Jonaraja's Rajatarangini 
(1450 AD) still refers to smearing the blood of one's slain enemy on one's 
forehead ... certainly not my  preferred method of "honoring/worshipping" 
my enemies, but reminding of the much more wide-spread custom in cases 
of  other types of slaughter: 
Muslims in Turkey do so when they slaughter a sheep every fall, and 
("Christian") English hunters do so -- nowadays...

Therefore I agree -partly- with Asko -- we discussed the matter some 
years ago -- when he writes:

> smearing (implied by the Dravidian etymology from 
> puucu 'to smear') constitutes an integral part of the early worship of 
> trees.... The red-coloured powders surely are substitutes for the blood 
> of  sacrificed victims   <<<<<<see ABOVE!!>>> 
> which continues being smeared on cult idols or trees in 
> connection with bloody offerings. Red powder/blood is applied also on the 
> forehead of human beings on such ritual occasions - this is the origin of 
> the forehead mark (Dravidian poTTu, Sanskrit tilaka, Tiikaa / Tikaa < 
> lalaaTikaa). The antiquity of the forehead mark and its Harappan / 
> Dravidian origin in India is discussed extensively in my book 'Deciphering 
> the Indus script' (1994), page 261...

Note also that, instead of red powder/blood,the ash from a Vedic ritual 
is used as "tilaka" at the end of such rituals. (Catholics may 
remember Ash Wednesday -- with another itihaasa/arthavaada, of course).)


At any rate, smearing blood on someone/something, however, is neither typically 
Dravidian nor Indo-aryan (see above!).
Theoretically the CUSTOM  can have been low-class/popular/specialized 
(hunters?) in both linguistic groups and the WORD  can stem from just one 
of them... Even the RV has some 300  loans (see KUIPER).


Finally:
Whether "(red) forehead thing" (lalaaT-ika) is the correct (Skt.) etymology 
remains to be seen, as the typical thing is the mixture with tilaka and 
other seeds (still evident in modern Nepal). Again, we do not know how 
old THAT is...

In short: many interesting links -- but we MISS the Vedic/ Indus text 
which tells us "you take blood/red powder  and smear it on 
someone/something" to honor..." Art would be another source, but how 
clear is that? (Remember the "proto-Shiva" on Indus seals?)

Lastly, question: if puuj(aa) is indeed linked to <reconstructed!> 
Drav. *puucu/poTTu, what is the phonetic development due to???



==============================================================================


            durjanasya ca sarpasya varam sarpo na durjanah |

            sarpo dazati kaalena durjanas tu pade-pade    ||


==============================================================================

Michael Witzel                              Department of Sanskrit
Wales Professor of Sanskrit                 and Indian Studies
Chair, Committee on South Asian Studies     53 Church Street
Harvard University                          Cambridge MA 02138, USA
phones: - 1- 617 - 495 3295 (messages)      Electronic Journal of
                   496 8570                 Vedic Studies
fax:               496 8571                 EJVS-list at arcadiax1.arcadia.
email:  witzel at husc3.harvard.edu            polimi.it 

                                  (or on WWW: http:// 
                                  arcadiax1.arcadia.polimi.it:80/~ejvslist/ 
                                  or: www.shore.net/india/~ejvs
 ===============================================================================



 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Mon Oct 16 08:31:26 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 08:31:26 +0000
Subject: Bookstores in Madras?
Message-ID: <161227021262.23782.16665613851246429802.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



On Sun, 15 Oct 1995, Anand Venkt Raman wrote:

> > My wife and I will be going to Madras early next year. I would like to
> > purchase some sanskrit books while I'm there.
> > Brian Akers
> > sfauthor at aol.com
> 
> There is in fact an indology bookshop near Shanti Vihar restaurant
> in Luz on the street leading into Vidya Mandir School, I forget the
> exact name of the street, but it is very easy to locate. That is
> where I bought my Sanskrit dictionary and several other books. They
> also stock many OUP titles.
This is the Motilal bookstore.
There is another specialist store called Samantha (Personal Book Depot)
in Teynampet on the Mt. Road opposite the AG's office. Thisis very good
for archaic titles.
Kalyanaraman.
 





From magier at columbia.edu  Mon Oct 16 14:15:47 1995
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 10:15:47 -0400
Subject: Hinduja Fellowship Program
Message-ID: <161227021266.23782.4318979338657736376.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The following announcement is being forwarded to your listserv from the
Directory of South Asian Research Institutes section of The South Asia
Gopher. Please contact the DHIRC directly for any queries, comments, or
applications.
David Magier, South Asia Gopher

======================================================================
1996-97 
Hinduja Fellow
Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center
Columbia University

The Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center at Columbia University
invites applications for a one-year postdoctoral fellowship for the
1996-97 academic year.  The Hinduja Center supports research that
promotes a deeper understanding of Indic civilizations and their
contributions to our modern world.  It is particularly interested in
funding projects that bring insights from particular Indic traditions
to bear upon contemporary problems, especially those related to
health, science, gender, violence, ethics, education, the environment,
and interreligious understanding.  

For the 1996-97 fellowship, priority will be given to applicants
pursuing research on  the following topics: Indic systems of healing
(particularly as they relate to women's health); and models of
conflict management within Indic cultures.  The stipend will be
$30,000 plus full fringe benefits; additional research funds will be
made available.  The Hinduja Fellow will be expected to teach one
course and to be an active member of Columbia University's Society of
Fellows in the Humanities.  The application deadline is Dec. 1, 1996.


For application material and further information, contact:

Nancy E. Braxton, Coordinator
Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center
Columbia University
1102 International Affairs Building
420 W. 118th St.
New York, NY 10027 

Tel:   212-854-5300
Fax:   212-854-2802
email: dhirc at columbia.edu
 





From BMS at NAUVAX.UCC.NAU.EDU  Mon Oct 16 17:20:19 1995
From: BMS at NAUVAX.UCC.NAU.EDU (BMS at NAUVAX.UCC.NAU.EDU)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 10:20:19 -0700
Subject: job announcement
Message-ID: <161227021273.23782.422780367629645158.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Please post this announcement of a new position, and inform anyone who is
qualified.  

Northern Arizona University invites applications for a tenure-track assistant
professorship in the history of Asia, South Asia preferred.  The successful
candidate will teach undergraduate and graduate courses in Asian history.

Applicants must possess a Ph.D. in Asian History by August, 1996.  A record of
scholarship and college-level teaching experience is preferred.

Please send a letter of application, c.v., writing sample, and 3 letters of
recommendation to Prof. John Leung, Search Committee Chair, Box 6023, Northern
Arizona University, Flagstaff, AZ  86011  USA.  Screening of applicatioins will
begin Nov. 15, 1995, but review of applications will continue until the
position is filled.


 





From A.Raman at massey.ac.nz  Sun Oct 15 21:25:57 1995
From: A.Raman at massey.ac.nz (Anand Venkt Raman)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 10:25:57 +1300
Subject: Bookstores in Madras?
Message-ID: <161227021259.23782.7266738463584474786.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> My wife and I will be going to Madras early next year. I would like to
> purchase some sanskrit books while I'm there.
> Brian Akers
> sfauthor at aol.com

There is in fact an indology bookshop near Shanti Vihar restaurant
in Luz on the street leading into Vidya Mandir School, I forget the
exact name of the street, but it is very easy to locate. That is
where I bought my Sanskrit dictionary and several other books. They
also stock many OUP titles.

- &
 





From jdwhite at unccvm.uncc.edu  Mon Oct 16 15:01:35 1995
From: jdwhite at unccvm.uncc.edu (jdwhite at unccvm.uncc.edu)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 11:01:35 -0400
Subject: Monier-Williams Compact Dictionary
Message-ID: <161227021271.23782.6659253791991810067.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Yes, please keep the list informed about the republication of a compact
edition of Monier-Williams.

 





From KWEGMAN at vax1.miu.edu  Mon Oct 16 19:08:45 1995
From: KWEGMAN at vax1.miu.edu (KWEGMAN at vax1.miu.edu)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 14:08:45 -0500
Subject: sanskrit conferences
Message-ID: <161227021278.23782.2537441953462656871.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

seeking information on upcoming sanskrit conferences for 1995, 96, and 97; in
particular the World Sanskrit Conference or, in general, any conference whose
primary subject matter is sanskrit or the Vedic literature.  Your response is
much appreciated in advance.  Please send to:   kwegman at mum.edu
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Mon Oct 16 15:37:29 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 15:37:29 +0000
Subject: Etymology of kSatriya
Message-ID: <161227021269.23782.7581151155877895405.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Narahari Rao said:
> 
> can you please give me this reference to the study of "citta" and
>  "ahamkAra"? When you are at it, you mentioned recently your=20
> interest in the history of science in South Asia.=20
> Is there some good book written recently that you can suggest?=20

The articles I had in mind were published in the JAOS in the late
fifties or early sixties, I think.  They are probably reprinted in:

  _Studies in Indian literature and philosophy: collected articles of J.
  A. B. van Buitenen_, edited by Ludo Rocher (Delhi: Motilal, 1988).

On reflection, I think he discussed ahamkara and atman, rather than a.
and citta.  Anyhow, samkhya concepts.  I remember the articles as being
very useful and insightfully written.



dominik wujastyk


 





From HaroldA at eworld.com  Mon Oct 16 23:54:23 1995
From: HaroldA at eworld.com (HaroldA at eworld.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 16:54:23 -0700
Subject: Dictionaries
Message-ID: <161227021282.23782.8996100883984494596.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sing me up for one too.

Harold F. Arnold
2404 Martin Luther King , Jr. Way
Berkeley, CA 94704 
 





From Shrisha.Rao at launchpad.unc.edu  Mon Oct 16 17:43:36 1995
From: Shrisha.Rao at launchpad.unc.edu (Shrisha.Rao at launchpad.unc.edu)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 17:43:36 +0000
Subject: RFD: humanities.language.sanskrit
Message-ID: <161227021275.23782.13439199527558662388.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
            unmoderated group humanities.language.sanskrit

This is a formal Request For Discussion on the creation of a new
worldwide UseNet newsgroup, humanities.language.sanskrit.

Proponents: HGroover at Qualitas.com (Henry Groover)
            Shrisha.Rao at launchpad.unc.edu (Shrisha Rao)

Mentor: mccomb at best.com (Todd Michel McComb)

Newsgroups line:
humanities.language.sanskrit  The Sanskrit language and related topics.

RATIONALE: humanities.language.sanskrit

Sanskrit is an Indo-European language of ancient origins, like Latin,
ancient Greek, and Persian. Unlike many other ancient languages, however,
it has had an unbroken tradition of both literary and everyday usage,
lasting right up to the present day.

A study of Sanskrit is very useful for those interested in understanding
Hinduism; it is also important to those who study Paninian linguistics,
Vedanta, Indology, the development of Indo-European languages and
cultures, etc. Besides all these, of course, Sanskrit has a vast body of
prose, poetry, drama, and music, of genuine literary worth, that is of
much interest to many scholars and amateurs.

There exists a Sanskrit e-mail discussion group that generates a fairly
high volume of messages -- 50+ per day -- and has in excess of 300 members
who are potential readers of such a newsgroup. It may also be safely
assumed that there are others not on the list who would also like to see
such a newsgroup come about.


CHARTER: humanities.language.sanskrit

The newsgroup humanities.language.sanskrit will be a forum devoted to the
discussion of all matters pertaining to the formal or informal study of
Sanskrit, both as a literary and scriptural language, and also as a
language for common use. The newsgroup will not be solely for those
already knowledgeable about Sanskrit, but will also give those interested
in it an opportunity to learn by interaction. While there will be no
restriction on the range of Sanskrit-related topics allowed, those that
have nothing to do either with Sanskrit itself, or with issues in the
study of Sanskrit, will be strongly discouraged.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

The posting of this RFD initiates a discussion of at least three weeks'
(21 days') duration. The discussion is restricted to news.groups only;
do not discuss this on other newsgroups. At the end of that time, a
neutral party, the Usenet Volunteer Votetakers (UVV) will post a Call
For Votes (CFV) containing detailed instructions. Do not confuse this
RFD with a CFV; the voting will not commence until later.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD is cross-posted to the following newsgroups:

news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, soc.culture.indian,
soc.culture.german, alt.religion.vaisnava, sci.lang, humanities.misc

This message will also be sent to the following mailing lists after
the RFD has appeared in news.announce.newgroups.

1. Sanskrit mailing list <sanskrit at keshav.informix.com>
2. Indology mailing list <indology at liverpool.ac.uk>
3. NLPAsia-L mailing list <nlpasia-l at nectec.or.th>
4. Indo-European list <INDOEUROPEAN-L at cornell.edu>

Follow-ups have been directed to news.groups. Please honor that, and
keep the discussion to news.groups only.

== end ==
 





From umchinie at cc.UManitoba.CA  Tue Oct 17 03:02:43 1995
From: umchinie at cc.UManitoba.CA (Sandapa Tambi Chinien)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 22:02:43 -0500
Subject: None
Message-ID: <161227021285.23782.15978602002839502715.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hello i am from Mauritius and i was wondering if you could share any
information you have on bhojpuri thanks in advance i saw your article in
gopher by the way
         
         
Sandapa  
         
     


         _______                 _______                  _____
        /**\    \               /**\    \                /\    \
       /****\    \             /****\    \              /**\    \
      /******\    \           /******\    \             \***\    \
     /***/\***\    \         /***/\***\    \             \***\    \
    |***/__\***\    \       /***/__\***\    \             \***\    \
    |***\   \***\    \     /****\   \***\    \             \***\    \
  ___\***\   \***\    \   /******\   \***\    \            /****\    \
 /\   \***\   \***\    \ /***/\***\   \***\____\  ___     /******\    \
/**\   \***\   \***\____\***/  \***\   \***|    |/\   \  /***/\***\    \
\***\   \***\   \**/    /**/    \***\  /***|____|**\   \/***/  \***\____\
 \***\   \***\   \/____/ \/____/ \***\/***/    / ***\  /***/    \**/    /
  \***\   \***\____\              \******/    /  \***\/***/    / \/____/
   \***\   \***|    |              \****/    /    \******/    /
    \***\  /***|____|              /***/    /      \****/____/
     \***\/***/    /              /***/    /        \***\    \
      \******/    /              /***/    /          \***\    \
       \****/    /              /***/    /            \***\    \
        \**/____/               \**/    /              \***\____\
         ~~                      \/____/                \**/___ /
           _____                    ____                   _____
          /\    \                /**\    \                /\    \
         /**\    \              /****\    \              /**\____\
        /****\    \            /******\    \            /****|   |
       /******\    \          /***/\***\    \         /*****|   |
      /***/\***\    \        /***/__\***\    \        /******|   |
     /***/__\***\    \      /****\   \***\    \      /***/|**|   |
    /****\   \***\    \    /******\   \***\    \   /***/ |**|   |
   /******\   \***\    \  /***/\***\   \***\____\  /***/  |**|___|______
  /***/\***\   \***\____\/***/  \***\   \***|    |/***/   |********\    \
 /***/  \***\   \***|    |**/    \***\  /***|____|***/    |*********\____\
 \**/   |****\  /***|____|\/____/ \***\/***/    / **/    / ~~~~~/***/    /
  \/____|*****\/***/    /          \******/    /  \/____/      /***/    /
        |*********/    /            \****/    /               /***/    /
        |**|\****/    /             /***/    /               /***/    /
        |**| \**/____/             /***/    /               /***/    /
        |**|  ~~|                 /***/    /               /***/    /
        |**|    |                /***/    /               /***/    /
        \**|    |                \**/    /               /***/    /
         \*|    |                 \/____/                \**/    /
          \|____|                                         \/____/
 
	

		Sandapa Tambi Chinien
		    10 Harbour bay
		  Winnipeg Manitoba
		   Canada r3t 5g6
	       204-261-1630 (residence)
	       	 204-269-8079 (fax)
	     email:umchinie at cc.umanitoba.ca
		REPUBLIC OF MAURITIUS
	      Republique de l'ile Maurice
		---------------------------
	        |                         |
	  Rouge	|  Republic of Mauritius  |Red
		|-------------------------|
	  	|		          |
	  Bleu	|     Star and Key        |Blue
		|                         |
		|-------------------------|
	  	|			  |
	  Jaune	|        Of The           |Yellow
		|-------------------------|
	  	|			  |
	  Vert	|     Indian Ocean        |Green
		|-------------------------|

 





From HaroldA at eworld.com  Tue Oct 17 05:46:10 1995
From: HaroldA at eworld.com (HaroldA at eworld.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 22:46:10 -0700
Subject: Bookstores in Madras?
Message-ID: <161227021290.23782.14954588109336218520.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


----------------------------- Begin Original Text
-----------------------------

There is a terrific bookstore called //Giggles// which is nextdoor to the 
Connemara Hotel on the main drag in Madras. If they don't carry what you 
want, they will get it for you in a couple of hours. Sarah LeVine.

----------------------------- End Original Text -----------------------------

I haven't been to Madras in years, but as I recall, Giggles was actually IN
the Connemara Hotel. The University of Madras also has a bookstore that sells
all of their own publications.
 





From levinesa at HUGSE1.HARVARD.EDU  Tue Oct 17 03:19:16 1995
From: levinesa at HUGSE1.HARVARD.EDU (levinesa at HUGSE1.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 23:19:16 -0400
Subject: Bookstores in Madras?
Message-ID: <161227021287.23782.871272649843333796.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

There is a terrific bookstore called //Giggles// which is nextdoor to the 
Connemara Hotel on the main drag in Madras. If they don't carry what you 
want, they will get it for you in a couple of hours. Sarah LeVine.

On Sun, 15 Oct 1995, Anand Venkt Raman wrote:

> > My wife and I will be going to Madras early next year. I would like to
> > purchase some sanskrit books while I'm there.
> > Brian Akers
> > sfauthor at aol.com
> 
> There is in fact an indology bookshop near Shanti Vihar restaurant
> in Luz on the street leading into Vidya Mandir School, I forget the
> exact name of the street, but it is very easy to locate. That is
> where I bought my Sanskrit dictionary and several other books. They
> also stock many OUP titles.
> 
> - &
>  
> 
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Mon Oct 16 22:58:22 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 23:58:22 +0100
Subject: Digital Indological Dream?
Message-ID: <161227021280.23782.8188199606642887230.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In the longish message that follows, I ask you to consider the future
possibilities and directions for computer-based resources of use or
interest to indologists.  Please don't bother to read on if this does
not interest you.  I am just fishing for ideas and opinions, and I 
fully understand that you may be too busy for this.  (I am!)   :-)

As a member of INDOLOGY, you are familiar with the *sorts* of things
that are currently possible using computer technology.  Especially if
you have used INDOLOGY's associated Web pages and gopher.

You may also have used a CDROM.  Many computers these days are sold with
Encarta pre-installed.  Or maybe you secretly play Myst with your
children.  Would the application of any of this technology, or anything
similar, be useful or attractive to you in the context of indology,
either for scholarship or for recreation?  

In what follows, when I say "CDROM", you could equally read "online
database".  (There are differences, however.  Would one means of
presentation be preferable to another?  Why?)

I should like to ask what computerized INDOLOGICAL resource(s) you
would like to have, if you could have whatever you wanted.  :-)

Would you want to be able to buy a CDROM with lots of transcribed
Sanskrit, Tamil, or other texts on it?  What sort of software would you
need to make use of such an archive?  Would you want a CDROM with
images of many Indian manuscripts on it (like having a library of
microfilms)?  Would you like network access to images of manuscripts?
Would that be thousands of manuscripts? Or just selected ones?  Which
ones?

Would you like a CDROM with the transcribed text of a work, alongside
images of a manuscript(s) of the work, perhaps also with the text being
read or chanted (if you have a multimedia PC)?

Would you like a CDROM (or online database) of photographs of
manuscript illustrations (but not text)?

Would you like to be able to buy the library catalogues of major
libraries on CDROM (you would probably want to subscribe).

Would you like to be able to search all the main indological libraries
with a single search command?

Do you think that multimedia presentations of Indic manuscripts,
paintings, music, would be useful, attractive?  What sort of thing
would appeal to you.  Today, one can buy a CDROM containing wonderful
virtual tours of the National Gallery or the Louvre, or an introduction
to Greek classical culture, architecture, and language (Perseus).
Would a CDROM multimedia treatment of Indic history, culture, arts, be
attractive?  What would you want along these lines?

In short, given a chance to do a bit of "blue-sky" imagining, what sort
of computer-related indological resources would you like or expect to
see becoming available in the next five or ten years?

I am asking these questions just in case opportunities arise to promote
projects in these areas.  It would be good to have an idea of what
people would *really* like to get their hands on.  I have seen some
preliminary experiments with some of these ideas, both at the Asiatic
Society in Calcutta, and at the IGNCA in Delhi, and I'm sure others
elsewhere are thinking about the future possibilities in this area.

A lot of the above ideas straddle the divide between scholarship and
entertainment.  What do you think about this?  Can any of these
computer-based ideas really be of serious use to top-flight
scholarship, or are they at their best when pitched at the level of the
undergraduate or the general public?

Dominik Wujastyk

 





From magier at columbia.edu  Tue Oct 17 13:10:30 1995
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 09:10:30 -0400
Subject: sanskrit conferences
Message-ID: <161227021303.23782.6568677067717865414.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>seeking information on upcoming sanskrit conferences for 1995, 96, and 97; in
>particular the World Sanskrit Conference or, in general, any conference whose
>primary subject matter is sanskrit or the Vedic literature.

This kind of information can be gleaned online from the Calendar of
Conferences, Exhibitions and Performances section of The South Asia
Gopher. It lists the full text of all the announcements, calls for
papers, panel descriptions, etc. for all these kinds of events,
including the World Sanskrit Conferences. The direct url for this
events calendar section is:

gopher://gopher.cc.columbia.edu:71/00/clioplus/scholarly/SouthAsia/Groups/
 Conferences/


David Magier
South Asia Gopher
Columbia University
 





From magier at columbia.edu  Tue Oct 17 13:14:34 1995
From: magier at columbia.edu (SOUTH ASIA GOPHER)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 09:14:34 -0400
Subject: Event announcement: VOA workshops
Message-ID: <161227021301.23782.8454485349560512495.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The following event announcement is being forwarded to your listserv
from the EVENTS CALENDAR section of The South Asia Gopher. Please
contact event organizers dirrectly for any further information.

David Magier
South Asia Gopher

=====================================================================
Date: 17 Oct 95  6:59:43
From: BQS at nea.voa.gov
Subject: VOA workshops
Reply-To: Brian_Q._Silver at nea.voa.gov

THE VOICE OF AMERICA PRESENTS TWO WORKSHOPS:

Workshop title:  Migrants and Refugees in South Asia

Date and time:  Wednesday, 18 October 1995, 9:00 - 11:00 am

Place:  VOA Basement Conference Room (G-507), 330 Independence Ave. SW,
Washington, DC  20547

Participants:
Dr. Paula R. Newberg, Carnegie Endowment:  The Politics of Migration
Mr. Arnold Zeitlin, former UPI Vice President for Asia:  Government Policies
Ms. Jeannine F. Guthrie, Human Rights Watch:  Refugees and Rights
Dr. Gowher Rizvi, The Asia Society:  Political Conflict and Accommodation
Moderator:  Dr. Moazzam Siddiqi, Voice of America

* * * * * * * * * *

Workshop title:  Water Issues in South Asia

Date and time:  Friday, 20 October 1995, 11:00 am - 1:00 pm

Place: VOA Visitors' Center, Room 1528, 330 Independence Ave. SW,
       Washington, DC 20547

Participants:

Dr. Syed S. Kirmani, Consultant and Former Director of the World Bank:
The Background of the Indus Waters Treaty between Pakistan and India,
and the Factors Contributing to its Success.

Dr. Nurul Islam, Research Fellow Emeritus, International Food Policy
Research Institute: The Farakka Barrage and the Ganges-Brahmaputra
Basin: Issues and Perspectives.

Dr. Arun Elhance, Program Director, Program on International Peace and
Security, Social Science Research Council: A Geographical Summary:
Constraints and Opportunities.

Moderator: Dr. Jerome Delli Priscoli, Senior Advisor, Institute of
Water Resources, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

* * * * * * * * * *

Both workshops are open to the public. After the initial
presentations, the floor will be turned over to questions from the
audience and discussion among panelists.

The workshops are sponsored by the North Africa, Near East, and South
Asia Division of the Voice of America.

For further information call 202-619-0331, or fax 202-619-0339.

 





From vineet at hotseat.att.com  Tue Oct 17 13:24:26 1995
From: vineet at hotseat.att.com (vineet at hotseat.att.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 09:24:26 -0400
Subject: Digital Indological Dream?
Message-ID: <161227021313.23782.6721677259084415081.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


I have been thinking of all and even more than you have talked about. I think
it is a great thing to do. The only question for me is when to start 
developing this (I am a comp. engg.). The answer is sometime within a year.
I am interested in doing this because I believe it will help everybody. But
it is good to put the question before the community so that they can
give their feedback. I would also like to work with various people.

vineet
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Tue Oct 17 10:35:58 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 10:35:58 +0000
Subject: sanskrit conferences
Message-ID: <161227021294.23782.5963208328614710176.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

KWEGMAN at vax1.miu.edu said:
> 
> seeking information on upcoming sanskrit conferences for 1995, 96, and 97; in
> particular the World Sanskrit Conference or, in general, any conference whose
> primary subject matter is sanskrit or the Vedic literature.  Your response is
> much appreciated in advance.  Please send to:   kwegman at mum.edu

The next World Sanskrit Conference is 3-9 January, 1997, Bangalore.  For
information, contact the organizers at FAX: +91-80-3334541.

Dominik Wujastyk


 





From soni at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE  Tue Oct 17 05:06:26 1995
From: soni at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE (soni at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 10:36:26 +0530
Subject: sanskrit conferences
Message-ID: <161227021292.23782.2184643768765910166.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>seeking information on upcoming sanskrit conferences for 1995, 96, and 97; in
>particular the World Sanskrit Conference or, in general, any conference whose
>primary subject matter is sanskrit or the Vedic literature.  Your response is
>much appreciated in advance.  Please send to:   kwegman at mum.edu
>
Probably others are also interested to know that:

The Xth World Sanskrit Conference is to be held in Bangalore, India from
3-9 January 1997 (sic). The first announcement was sent on 16 June 1995.
The address to write is: Secretariat, Xth World Sanskrit Conference,
Taralabalu Kendra, 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar, Bangalore, India 560 032
Phones: 80-3430017 and 3332759; Fax: 3334541. The deadline for the
submission of titles and abstracts is 15 May 1996.
Jay
soni at mailer.uni-marburg.de


 





From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no  Tue Oct 17 09:41:56 1995
From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 10:41:56 +0100
Subject: Digital Indological Dream?
Message-ID: <161227021296.23782.6568638669362007599.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>
>In what follows, when I say "CDROM", you could equally read "online
>database".  (There are differences, however.  Would one means of
>presentation be preferable to another?  Why?)
>
>I should like to ask what computerized INDOLOGICAL resource(s) you
>would like to have, if you could have whatever you wanted.  :-)

On CD I would like:

1) Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary
2) Any other Sanskrit dictionary available
3) Mayrhofer's etymological dictionary
4) Any number of Sanskrit, Pali, and Prakrit texts

The question is rather: What should we *not* have?

Best regards,

Lars Martin Fosse



Lars Martin Fosse
Research Fellow
Department of East European
and Oriental Studies
P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
N-0315 OSLO Norway

Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
Fax: +47 22 85 41 40

E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no


 





From conlon at u.washington.edu  Tue Oct 17 18:22:42 1995
From: conlon at u.washington.edu (Frank Conlon)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 11:22:42 -0700
Subject: H-ASIA: Hindu Ascetics Film Reviewed (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227021308.23782.9575448058027951606.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Colleagues:

I believe that the attached item would be of interest to indology list 
readers.

Frank Conlon
Co-editor of H-ASIA

To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA <H-ASIA at msu.edu>
Subject: H-ASIA: Hindu Ascetics Film Reviewed

                                H-ASIA
                           October 17, 1995

A review of "Hindu Ascetics" film.  Four thumbs down!
***********************************************************************
From: "B. Hatcher" <bhatcher at titan.iwu.edu>

I recently previewed a copy of a film entitled, 'Hindu Ascetics,'
distributed by Films for the Humanities.  Because I have had good luck
with some of their films in the past, I looked forward to viewing this
title.  How shocked I was, then, to find it not only poorly researched
and written, but also glaringly off the mark regarding its subject and
guilty of perpetuating some of the worst stereotypes of Indian
religions.  Contrary to what one might expect, the film offers very
little entree into the brahmanical ideology and practice of sannyasa.
Instead, it chooses to focus on the most shocking forms of
self-mortification (such as piercing the tongue and other parts of the
body) as well as on some of the old side-show images of 'Hindoo holy men'
lying on beds of nails.  With no sophistication the film shifted from
forms of religious charlatanism (swallowing nails) to complex rituals of
possession.  Shiva's trident was more than once identified as a tripod,
and the goal of Hindu asceticism was again and again and again said to be
'redemption.'  I wouldn't accept this from one of my undergraduates and
was shocked to find it in a film I contemplated buying to show to just
such an audience.  I should have known when the film's opening shot was
of the Taj Mahal.

I guess I was wondering if anyone else had seen this film and had a
similar reaction.  Am I out of line here?  If not, I would warn others
against purchasing or using this film for teaching about Hinduism or
Indian religion.

Brian A. Hatcher
Department of Religion
Illinois Wesleyan University
Bloomington, IL  61701

e-mail:  bhatcher at titan.iwu.edu
=================================================================
     To post to  H-ASIA send your message to H-ASIA at msu.edu

To subscribe to H-ASIA send post (with subject empty) to listserv at msu.edu
	SUB H-ASIA Your first name Your surname , Your institution
	(note comma ONLY between surname and institution)

To temporarily interrupt your H-ASIA service for holidays send a
posting to <listserv at msu.edu> with the message:
                                       SET H-ASIA NOMAIL

When you return and wish to resume H-ASIA service send a similar
posting with message:                  SET H-ASIA MAIL

Private questions should go to:     conlon at u.washington.edu
                              or    leibos at sage.edu

 





From Jean-Luc.Chevillard at linguist.jussieu.fr  Tue Oct 17 12:53:52 1995
From: Jean-Luc.Chevillard at linguist.jussieu.fr (Jean-Luc.Chevillard at linguist.jussieu.fr)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 13:53:52 +0100
Subject: sanskrit conferences (RENOU conference)
Message-ID: <161227021299.23782.12124107353958524777.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>seeking information on upcoming sanskrit conferences for 1995, 96, and 97; in
>particular the World Sanskrit Conference or, in general, any conference whose
>primary subject matter is sanskrit or the Vedic literature.  Your response is
>much appreciated in advance.  Please send to:   kwegman at mum.edu
> 


A conference will be held in Paris in january 1996.
The title is to be:

Langue, style, structure dans le monde indien.
Colloque international en l'honneur de Louis Renou (1896-1966)

It is organized by URA 1058 "LACMI" (Paris III, CNRS)

There will be four sessions:

- Etudes vediques
- Grammaire indienne
- Morphologie et lexicologie
- Poesie et forme des textes

Date: 1996 january 25-26-27

Some 23 scholars have confirmed their participation.

The precise schedule and program will be circulated in a few weeks.

- Jean-Luc Chevillard  <chevilla at linguist.jussieu.fr>
  (CNRS, URA 381 [HTL] -- Universite Paris 7, departement de linguistique)

 





From lester at spot.Colorado.EDU  Tue Oct 17 23:25:14 1995
From: lester at spot.Colorado.EDU (LESTER ROBERT C)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 17:25:14 -0600
Subject: H-ASIA: Hindu Ascetics Film Reviewed (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227021315.23782.1360588758344614176.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I also have reviewed this film and, if anything, had an even stronger 
negative reaction.

On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Frank Conlon wrote:

> Colleagues:
> 
> I believe that the attached item would be of interest to indology list 
> readers.
> 
> Frank Conlon
> Co-editor of H-ASIA
> 
> To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA <H-ASIA at msu.edu>
> Subject: H-ASIA: Hindu Ascetics Film Reviewed
> 
>                                 H-ASIA
>                            October 17, 1995
> 
> A review of "Hindu Ascetics" film.  Four thumbs down!
> ***********************************************************************
> From: "B. Hatcher" <bhatcher at titan.iwu.edu>
> 
> I recently previewed a copy of a film entitled, 'Hindu Ascetics,'
> distributed by Films for the Humanities.  Because I have had good luck
> with some of their films in the past, I looked forward to viewing this
> title.  How shocked I was, then, to find it not only poorly researched
> and written, but also glaringly off the mark regarding its subject and
> guilty of perpetuating some of the worst stereotypes of Indian
> religions.  Contrary to what one might expect, the film offers very
> little entree into the brahmanical ideology and practice of sannyasa.
> Instead, it chooses to focus on the most shocking forms of
> self-mortification (such as piercing the tongue and other parts of the
> body) as well as on some of the old side-show images of 'Hindoo holy men'
> lying on beds of nails.  With no sophistication the film shifted from
> forms of religious charlatanism (swallowing nails) to complex rituals of
> possession.  Shiva's trident was more than once identified as a tripod,
> and the goal of Hindu asceticism was again and again and again said to be
> 'redemption.'  I wouldn't accept this from one of my undergraduates and
> was shocked to find it in a film I contemplated buying to show to just
> such an audience.  I should have known when the film's opening shot was
> of the Taj Mahal.
> 
> I guess I was wondering if anyone else had seen this film and had a
> similar reaction.  Am I out of line here?  If not, I would warn others
> against purchasing or using this film for teaching about Hinduism or
> Indian religion.
> 
> Brian A. Hatcher
> Department of Religion
> Illinois Wesleyan University
> Bloomington, IL  61701
> 
> e-mail:  bhatcher at titan.iwu.edu
> =================================================================
>      To post to  H-ASIA send your message to H-ASIA at msu.edu
> 
> To subscribe to H-ASIA send post (with subject empty) to listserv at msu.edu
> 	SUB H-ASIA Your first name Your surname , Your institution
> 	(note comma ONLY between surname and institution)
> 
> To temporarily interrupt your H-ASIA service for holidays send a
> posting to <listserv at msu.edu> with the message:
>                                        SET H-ASIA NOMAIL
> 
> When you return and wish to resume H-ASIA service send a similar
> posting with message:                  SET H-ASIA MAIL
> 
> Private questions should go to:     conlon at u.washington.edu
>                               or    leibos at sage.edu
> 
>  
> 
 





From apandey at u.washington.edu  Wed Oct 18 01:35:20 1995
From: apandey at u.washington.edu (Anshuman Pandey)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 18:35:20 -0700
Subject: Meaning of Panini
Message-ID: <161227021318.23782.9242786290711977849.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Sorry to wander off-topic, but I was reading a work titled "The Early 
Aryans of India" by S. B. Roy in which he writes that Panini was a 
Pathan. Is there any information to validate this claim?

Thanks.

Anshuman Pandey


On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Anand Venkt Raman wrote:

> Speaking of dictionaries, I have been looking for the meaning of the
> word "Panini". I have been unable to trace the etymology of the word to
> anything beyond "Name of the sage Panini". It seems to indicate
> "hand-made", but I'm not sure. Can someone help me out here please?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> - &
> --
> Anand Venkt Raman                 Ph: +64-6-350-4186, 355-0062 (a/h)
> Dept of Computer Science          Fx: +64-6-350-5611
> http://fims-www.massey.ac.nz/~ARaman
>  
> 
> 
 





From krisna at cs.wisc.edu  Wed Oct 18 03:54:46 1995
From: krisna at cs.wisc.edu (krisna at cs.wisc.edu)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 22:54:46 -0500
Subject: Panini's ethnicity
Message-ID: <161227021325.23782.3449815323103023203.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Anand Venkt Raman writes:
:
: >Sorry to wander off-topic, but I was reading a work titled "The Early 
: >Aryans of India" by S. B. Roy in which he writes that Panini was a 
: >Pathan. Is there any information to validate this claim?
:
: Several scholars including Sir Monier Williams suggest that Panini was
: a Pathan who moved to Pataliputra in the Maghadha empire from around
: the Taxila area in Pakistan. As to the proofs or grounds for these
: claims I have seen little.
:


Before we ponder Panini's Pathanicity, let us clarify what it
means to have been a Pathan in the 4th century B.C.E or
thenabouts.  It is most certainly not the image of a Pathan that
the modern mind fed on Bollywood movies first thinks of.

Frits Staal is a linguist who believes that Panini was most
likely a native of the North-Western part of Pakistan (I don't
think Staal puts Panini as far west as Afghanistan).  Staal's
conclusion is partly based on the small differences between the
language that Panini described in aStadhyaayi and that which his
immediate commentators Patanjali and Katyayana wrote about
(Patanjali is thought to have lived in Northern India and
Katyayana in Southern India).  Apparently, the differences are
not completely explained in terms of the time difference between
these three grammarians (and Katyayana is further in time and
space from Panini and his commentaries show greater disagreement
with the "acharya").

Another line of investigation is to see if the aStadhyaayi shows
any evidence that Panini was familiar with the Iranian language
family.  Sanskrit/Vedic and Persian should have been sufficiently
diverged by his time.  A native of Afghanistan was more likely to
have been familiar with the Iranian languages.  My guess is that
Panini was familiar only with Sanskrit and Vedic (or he did not
let on his nativity in his writings).


I also recall reading somewhere (in one of Staal's books) that
Panini and his brother were both grammarians much revered by
their peers.  Both were also believed to have been killed by
tiger attacks on a Tuesday (and that is part of the reason why
that day is considered inauspicious for grammarians).  Ah the
stuff that legends are made of!  Anyone have more information on
this?

--Krishna
 





From kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp  Tue Oct 17 16:46:12 1995
From: kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 01:46:12 +0900
Subject: Digital Indological Dream?
Message-ID: <161227021306.23782.7442791447594021466.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In response to "what do we want to have", it would be reasonable to specify
who is likely to use what for which purpose and in what format. 

What I, being mostly interested in texts and manuscripts, would want: 

e-texts, e-texts and even more e-texts, in an easily accessible format. 
That is to say: NOT a format which requires special searching tools that
have to be bought separately (if they're included, I don't mind), and NOT a
format where you can admire the beautiful graphical representation without
copy-pasting text into your usual word-processor. ACIP issued a Tibetan
script-viewer together with their texts, for instance, which is all very
nice - but it only allows you to view, and not to write or copy. 

This pretty much makes it ASCII with some sort of easily understandable
diacritics-transcription, where you once write a macro for your
word-processor, and that's it. 

>From the manuscript-perspective, I would like to have CDROMs which show me
what individual manuscripts actually look like (sample transliterations,
maybe even aks.ara-lists). I think palaeography could benefit a lot from
cleverly produced CDROMs. Right now, I am compiling an aks.ara-list (all
aks.aras and their variants) from one single text, which covers about eight
folios - doing this by hand is a wonderful pastime (read: time passes
incredibly fast), but not very effective. 

Dictionaries, of course - aside from the ones already mentioned, esp. the
Petersburg Dictionary. 

I think the manufacturers esp. of CDROMs should carefully consider what
market they produce for. I, for once, can easily live without fancy graphics
which only take lots of time being loaded, without the appropriate tune
accompanying my steps through this or that legendary manuscript-collection etc. 

The two main requirements, thus, for the "textual people": speed and
multiple compatibility. 




Birgit Kellner
Institute for Indian Philosophy
University of Hiroshima

 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Wed Oct 18 07:37:38 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 07:37:38 +0000
Subject: Bookstores in Madras?
Message-ID: <161227021320.23782.5346197069896663497.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Giggles is a bookstore in the connemara hotel; very helpful staff.
Kalyanaraman.
 





From mrabe at artic.edu  Wed Oct 18 12:38:36 1995
From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 07:38:36 -0500
Subject: Digital Indological Dream?
Message-ID: <161227021327.23782.5939519544800781608.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

There's an apropos cartoon in this week's New Yorker (Oct 16th, p. 128):  a
worried hostess turns from glum guests to her husband and exclaims,"Oh,
Lord! We forgot to invite any content providers."

Like MYST, indological best sellers (of the future--come quicklyl) will
probably be authored by individuals or small teams with real vision for the
medium.  And like better museum exhibitions, accompanied by scholarly
catalogs, they'll have to aim for an extremely wide band of potential
viewers--not just the bottom end like too many currently on the market.


 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Oct 18 13:11:31 1995
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 09:11:31 -0400
Subject: Meaning of Panini
Message-ID: <161227021329.23782.14962213459926210854.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The word PaaNini has nothing to do with PaaNi 'hand'.  Traditionally the 
word derived from PaNi:  paNinaH apatyaM a descendant of PaNi.  Besides 
this, we have no more clues.
	Madhav Deshpande

On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Anand Venkt Raman wrote:

> Speaking of dictionaries, I have been looking for the meaning of the
> word "Panini". I have been unable to trace the etymology of the word to
> anything beyond "Name of the sage Panini". It seems to indicate
> "hand-made", but I'm not sure. Can someone help me out here please?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> - &
> --
> Anand Venkt Raman                 Ph: +64-6-350-4186, 355-0062 (a/h)
> Dept of Computer Science          Fx: +64-6-350-5611
> http://fims-www.massey.ac.nz/~ARaman
>  
> 
 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Oct 18 13:15:29 1995
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 09:15:29 -0400
Subject: Meaning of Panini
Message-ID: <161227021332.23782.2378788585546737570.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Let us not get carried away by the modern meaning of the word Pathan.  
However, it is clear that Panini is called a resident of the town of 
Shalaatura, which is identified with a locality near Peshawar.  I have 
shown in some of my work that Panini exhibits his familiarity with the 
linguistic facts of this northwestern frontier.
	Madhav Deshpande

On Wed, 18 Oct 1995, Anshuman Pandey wrote:

> 
> Sorry to wander off-topic, but I was reading a work titled "The Early 
> Aryans of India" by S. B. Roy in which he writes that Panini was a 
> Pathan. Is there any information to validate this claim?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Anshuman Pandey
> 
> 
> On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Anand Venkt Raman wrote:
> 
> > Speaking of dictionaries, I have been looking for the meaning of the
> > word "Panini". I have been unable to trace the etymology of the word to
> > anything beyond "Name of the sage Panini". It seems to indicate
> > "hand-made", but I'm not sure. Can someone help me out here please?
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > - &
> > --
> > Anand Venkt Raman                 Ph: +64-6-350-4186, 355-0062 (a/h)
> > Dept of Computer Science          Fx: +64-6-350-5611
> > http://fims-www.massey.ac.nz/~ARaman
> > 
> > 
> > 
>  
> 
 





From A.Raman at massey.ac.nz  Tue Oct 17 21:01:17 1995
From: A.Raman at massey.ac.nz (Anand Venkt Raman)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 10:01:17 +1300
Subject: Meaning of Panini
Message-ID: <161227021310.23782.16921490066748339228.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Speaking of dictionaries, I have been looking for the meaning of the
word "Panini". I have been unable to trace the etymology of the word to
anything beyond "Name of the sage Panini". It seems to indicate
"hand-made", but I'm not sure. Can someone help me out here please?

Thanks.

- &
--
Anand Venkt Raman                 Ph: +64-6-350-4186, 355-0062 (a/h)
Dept of Computer Science          Fx: +64-6-350-5611
http://fims-www.massey.ac.nz/~ARaman
 





From jhr at elidor.demon.co.uk  Wed Oct 18 10:01:42 1995
From: jhr at elidor.demon.co.uk (John Richards)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 10:01:42 +0000
Subject: Is CSX the best solution?
Message-ID: <161227021342.23782.15489288073743456192.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have been using CS/CSX TTF format fonts now for some time, and there
is undoubtedly considerable advantage in having an agreed convention for
the allocation of the special Sanskrit characters in Romanised Sanskrit.
However, the more I use this convention, the less I feel confident that
this is necessarily the best way of doing things.

Before I came across the CSX convention, I had created a Sanskrit TTF
format font myself, on a quite different principle. Whereas the CSX
convention uses the extended ASCII range, thereby interfering with the
"normal" use of the primary ASCII characters less, I had deliberately
chosen locations in that primary range, using the characters that are
certainly not needed for Sanskrit text - @#$%^&*+={}[] etc. I have never
found an instance when I have needed these in a Sanskrit text or
quotation!

There are certain advantages to this principle over the CSX one. Apart
from the minor one that Sanskrit text can then be transmitted as-is
through the Internet, there is one in particular which I keep stumbling
against in using the CSX fonts. A number of the most widely used word
processors will not permit extended ASCII characters to be used in
Search functions dialog boxes, not even by using ALT-numeric-key. This
makes a proper search or search-and-replace almost impossible, though it
is possible sometimes to get round this by using the Character Map
utility, or by typing the word/phrase in another windows, and
copying/pasting it into the dialog box. But both these methods are
slow and cumbersome for more than the odd word. (I speak, of course,
as must be obvious, as a PC Windows user.)

There is also the advantage that text CAN be typed in direct, without
the use of either ALT-numeric-key or Templates/Macros. At times, and in
some circumstances, and for computer-beginners, this can be quite a
considerable advantage.

There are quite sufficient keys in the primary ASCII range to allow for
all the Sanskrit characters used in practice - particularly if one
follows the Indian convention of having no capital letters.

I can see the advantages of the CSX system, in its fulness and, not
least in the fact that it is now becoming quite widely accepted (by
myself as much as by others), but I am not sure that this issue has been
widely discussed, and it might be useful to throw it open for review.

-- 
John Richards
Stackpole Elidor (UK)
jhr at elidor.demon.co.uk
 





From gthursby at religion.ufl.edu  Wed Oct 18 17:42:32 1995
From: gthursby at religion.ufl.edu (Gene Thursby)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 13:42:32 -0400
Subject: Information on Sri Chinmoy & His Followers
Message-ID: <161227021336.23782.4366630141678099826.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Recently I had a request for first-hand information concerning Sri 
Chinmoy that came from a writer who is preparing an article for Outside 
magazine.  If you have done research on Sri Chinmoy, or have close 
acquaintance, or know someone who is able and willing to be interviewed, 
kindly contact the writer -- Devon Jackson, telephone 212-941-0157 in New 
York City, USA -- or me by e-mail.

Many thanks.

Gene R. Thursby
Associate Professor
Department of Religion
University of Florida
Gainesville, FL 32611 USA
<gthursby at religion.ufl.edu>
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Wed Oct 18 15:01:21 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 15:01:21 +0000
Subject: Meaning of Panini
Message-ID: <161227021334.23782.12421020142576914180.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Anshuman Pandey said:
> 
> 
> Sorry to wander off-topic, but I was reading a work titled "The Early 
> Aryans of India" by S. B. Roy in which he writes that Panini was a 
> Pathan. Is there any information to validate this claim?

What a lovely image!  Rifle in one hand, sash of cartridges over his
shoulder, red bandanna, muttering "vrddhiraadaic adengunah...".

Perhaps the only sensible comment we can make about "who Panini was" is
that made by Scharfe (citing Filliozat), who noted that given the
traditional location of Panini near Attock, and his presumed date in the
fifth century or so, he was technically a subject of the Achaemenid
empire, i.e., a Persian (Grammatical Literature, Wiesbaden, 1977).

Presumably the legendary statue of Panini is buried somewhere near
Attock, and if someone could just dig it up, we would have quite a
treasure.  :-)

Dominik




 





From A.Raman at massey.ac.nz  Wed Oct 18 03:23:42 1995
From: A.Raman at massey.ac.nz (Anand Venkt Raman)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 16:23:42 +1300
Subject: Panini's ethnicity
Message-ID: <161227021322.23782.4935618997503189836.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Sorry to wander off-topic, but I was reading a work titled "The Early 
>Aryans of India" by S. B. Roy in which he writes that Panini was a 
>Pathan. Is there any information to validate this claim?

Several scholars including Sir Monier Williams suggest that Panini was
a Pathan who moved to Pataliputra in the Maghadha empire from around
the Taxila area in Pakistan. As to the proofs or grounds for these
claims I have seen little.

- &
 





From bhagavam at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu  Wed Oct 18 23:00:14 1995
From: bhagavam at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (manu bhagavan)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 18:00:14 -0500
Subject: SAGAR Ed. Adv. Board
Message-ID: <161227021338.23782.15961246967902866968.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


SAGAR: South Asia Graduate Research Journal is pleased to welcome

DR. KAMALA VISWESWARAN (ANTHROPOLOGY)
DR. BARBRA HARLOW (ENGLISH/COMPARATIVE LITERATURE)
AND
DR. GREGORY SCHOPEN (RELIGION)

to our editorial advisory board.

For further information, please write to the SAGAR editors at
<sagrj at uts.cc.utexas.edu>.

 





From sagrj at uts.cc.utexas.edu  Wed Oct 18 23:08:45 1995
From: sagrj at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Sagar S. Asia Graduate Journal)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 18:08:45 -0500
Subject: BEST NEW DISSERTATION AWARD
Message-ID: <161227021340.23782.17365344911067368413.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

SAGAR: South Asia Graduate Research Journal
is pleased to announce the establishment of

THE ANNUAL AWARD FOR BEST NEW DISSERTATION ON SOUTH ASIA

This competition is sponsored by
The Center for Asian Studies
at
The University of Texas at Austin

1996 Competition:

Candidates should submit one (1) copy of their dissertation and a letter
of recommendation from their dissertation supervisor to:

SAGAR
c/o Asian Studies
The University of Texas at Austin
WCH 4.134, Campus Mail Code G9300
Austin, TX 78712-1194

All material must be received by 15 January 1996.  Candidates
must have completed  their PhD within the last three years (1993-1995).

The Award Recipient will be named in the Spring 1996 issue of SAGAR.
The Recipient will be flown to the University of Texas the following Fall
(Fall 1996) to receive their Award.  Recipients will also be expected to
present a short lecture based on their dissertation at this time.  A 
version of the paper presented at this lecture will then be published in 
the following Fall issue (Fall 1996) of SAGAR.

Questions or comments should be sent to
SAGAR editors
<sagrj at uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Phone: 512-471-5811
FAX: 512-471-4469

Manu Bhagavan
Editor-in-Chief, SAGAR: South Asia Graduate Research Journal



 





From vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu  Thu Oct 19 10:58:53 1995
From: vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 06:58:53 -0400
Subject: Meaning of Panini, also "saakalya
Message-ID: <161227021358.23782.16136391895355718749.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



>[PaaNini:]  paNinaH apatyaM a descendant of PaNi.

I am just curious, why the extra n?

Talking about grammarians' origins, is there supposes to be any
connection between "Saakalyas and the town of "Saakala?

-Nath

Nath Rao (natharao+ at osu.edu)		614-366-9341
 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Thu Oct 19 08:44:08 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 08:44:08 +0000
Subject: Is CSX the best solution?
Message-ID: <161227021345.23782.13117297538247891725.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Thu, 19 Oct 1995, John Richards wrote:
> copying/pasting it into the dialog box. But both these methods are
> slow and cumbersome for more than the odd word. (I speak, of course,
> as must be obvious, as a PC Windows user.)

> There is also the advantage that text CAN be typed in direct, without
> the use of either ALT-numeric-key or Templates/Macros. At times, and in
> some circumstances, and for computer-beginners, this can be quite a
> considerable advantage.
> 
> I can see the advantages of the CSX system, in its fulness and, not
> least in the fact that it is now becoming quite widely accepted (by
> myself as much as by others), but I am not sure that this issue has been
> widely discussed, and it might be useful to throw it open for review.
>  
Why go through the keyboard or phonetic interfaces?

I designed and a new york publisher has brought out a CD-ROM with 1500+
fonts for all South asian language scripts incuding Sanskrit. The design
features are:

ANSI character set for all the glyphs required.

Windows (e.g. MS Word 6.0 has a feature Insert, Symbol) brings up the
chart on the document screen. User can point and click on the desired glyph,
as in hand-writing. The clicked glyph zooms and pops out and enters the 
document. There is built-in intelligence to align the diacritical glyphs
at correct locations of the preceding principal glyph.

This provides the foundation for the next key design feature: portability,
the fonts are usable ON ALL APPLICATIONS CURRENTLY USED FOR ENGLISH, e.g.
dbase, spreadsheed, graphics, internet etc. This was presented in an
international conference on applicationof information technology for south
asian languages of the computer society of india; I was the keynote speaker.

Ease of use is so pronounced with direct graphical user interface that even
an ASCII based ISCII standard phonetic keyboard is eliminated.

For further details, contact Scanrom Publications, New York; 
73760,1005 at compuserve.com; tel. 1-516-295-2237, 1-800-269-2237; fax. 
1-516-295-2240

Dr. S. Kalyanaraman
Indus Sarasvati Research Centre,
20 Warren Road, Mylapore, Madras 600004, India
tel. 91-44-493-6288; fax. 91-44-499-6380; email: 
mdsaaa48 at giasmd01.VSNL.net.in
 





From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA  Thu Oct 19 14:02:44 1995
From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (RAH)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 09:02:44 -0500
Subject: Digital Indological Dream?
Message-ID: <161227021359.23782.17447017887456295710.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

What I would like to see online in some very condensed but easily usable 
form is the Poona Dictionary. (I'm not sure what the official name of 
this work is.) I understand it will surpass the St. Pete's 
in quality and comprehensiveness, and I understand it is all ready on 
chits, but at the rate it is being published in book form, none of us 
alive today will see it completed. Since the other dictionaries mentioned 
are already available in decent book form, I would prefer that priority 
be given to this work, that is not available for use except for those of 
us fortunate enough to be in Madras.

Working, but otherwise on strike,
Bob Hueckstedt
Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages
Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba
Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada email: hueckst at cc.umanitoba.ca
fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797

 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Thu Oct 19 10:36:48 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 10:36:48 +0000
Subject: WWW SANSKRIT DICTIONARY (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227021353.23782.6428025845059112424.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Forwarded message:
> Delivery-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 21:31:38 +0100
> Message-Id: <199510182031.QAA50303 at ns4-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU>
> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 16:30:50 EDT
> From: ksn2 at Lehigh.EDU (Kedar Naphade)
> X-Mailer: SENDM [Version 2.0.15]
> Subject: WWW SANSKRIT DICTIONARY
> To: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk
> 
> 
> Hello Dominik,
> 
>     Could you post the following information on the indology list :
> 
>     Announcing WWW Sanskrit Directory :
> 
>         http://www.lehigh.edu/~ksn2/sanskrit.html
> 
>     I am no longer a member of the INDOLOGY list and hence am requesting you.
> 
>     Thanks !!
> 
>     - Kedar
> 
> email : ksn2 at lehigh.edu
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> All problems of existence are essentially problems of harmonium.
> 
> WWW   : http://www.lehigh.edu/~ksn2/ksn2.html
> 

 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Thu Oct 19 10:45:46 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 10:45:46 +0000
Subject: mailing list
Message-ID: <161227021354.23782.1083996467976759118.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Raymond Crawford said:
> 
> I saw your group mentioned in a RFD for the formation for 
> humanities.language.sanskrit newsgroup
> 
> Please send me information about 
> yourselves and your activities and add me to your mailing list.

I have done this.

Dominik Wujastyk

 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Thu Oct 19 10:53:56 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 10:53:56 +0000
Subject: Is CSX the best solution?
Message-ID: <161227021356.23782.12824701075352323250.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


DR.S.KALYANARAMAN said:

> Why go through the keyboard or phonetic interfaces?

The point is to be able to do scholarly work in transliteration, and
also to have a standard for text exchange and archiving.  The CSX
standard is *not* primarily aimed at text representation, although it
can function in that capacity too, of course.

> I designed and a new york publisher has brought out a CD-ROM with 1500+
> fonts for all South asian language scripts incuding Sanskrit. The design
> features are:
> ANSI character set for all the glyphs required.

I don't understand.  There is no ANSI definition for South Asian scripts.

-- 

Dominik Wujastyk,

 





From sjohar at library.usyd.edu.au  Thu Oct 19 03:00:58 1995
From: sjohar at library.usyd.edu.au (sjohar at library.usyd.edu.au)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 13:00:58 +1000
Subject: Mirabai manuscripts
Message-ID: <161227021344.23782.2647725064382966841.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A few years ago I bought a book of Mirabai's songs in Udaipur published by
the Mirabai research institute. I will mail teh address oftheinstitiute
tomorrow.

Sugandha



>Please try Nancy Martin-Kershaw, a PhD candidate at UC Berkeley,
>working under Linda Hess.  SHe is doing her dissertation on Mirabai.
>Peter Claus
> 
>
>

 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Oct 19 17:11:23 1995
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 13:11:23 -0400
Subject: Meaning of Panini, also "saakalya
Message-ID: <161227021361.23782.4673928215684718037.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	I suppose there is a connection between Shaakalya and the place 
name Shaakala or Sakala (Saagala in Pali: cf. Milindapanha).  However, 
there is also evidence in the Aitareya AaraNyaka and texts like the 
BrihadaaraNyaka Upanishad of the Shaakalyas residing in the eastern 
region of Videha and Magadha.
	Madhav Deshpande

On Thu, 19 Oct 1995, Vidhyanath K. Rao wrote:

> 
> 
> >[PaaNini:]  paNinaH apatyaM a descendant of PaNi.
> 
> I am just curious, why the extra n?
> 
> Talking about grammarians' origins, is there supposes to be any
> connection between "Saakalyas and the town of "Saakala?
> 
> -Nath
> 
> Nath Rao (natharao+ at osu.edu)		614-366-9341
>  
> 
 





From kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp  Thu Oct 19 04:14:32 1995
From: kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 13:14:32 +0900
Subject: Is CSX the best solution?
Message-ID: <161227021347.23782.10932052089868570707.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

John Richards wrote: 
>Before I came across the CSX convention, I had created a Sanskrit TTF
>format font myself, on a quite different principle. Whereas the CSX
>convention uses the extended ASCII range, thereby interfering with the
>"normal" use of the primary ASCII characters less, I had deliberately
>chosen locations in that primary range, using the characters that are
>certainly not needed for Sanskrit text - @#$%^&*+={}[] etc. I have never
>found an instance when I have needed these in a Sanskrit text or
>quotation!

Simple question: What do you do when you write a paper where you use both
English (or any other non-Sanskrit-language) and Sanskrit? I guess you have
to change fonts. Because I don't like to change fonts, I prefer CSX-encoding. 

I agree in that it is cumbersome to type all the ASCII-numbers in
search-menues. However, I believe that there are Windows-utilities which
allow you to compose a Windows-keyboard of your choice, which lets you
insert characters in search-menues the way you please (I have heard about
such miraculous creation, alas, not found one which likes Japanese Windows
yet). 

What I find more disturbing about CSX is that word processors do not
recognize extended ASCII-characters as characters in the first place. I.e.
when you have a diacritical mark within a word, the word-processor will
treat the word as TWO words (which is especially endearing when it
automatically moves the phoney second word into a new line or stubbornly
resists your attempts at hyphenation...). This is speaking for Word for
Windows, but as far as I remember, WordPerfect behaved in the same
mysterious ways. 

Birgit Kellner
Institute for Indian Philosophy
University of Hiroshima

 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Oct 19 17:25:56 1995
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 13:25:56 -0400
Subject: Meaning of Panini
Message-ID: <161227021363.23782.6006867266857309709.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

You may consult the following publications whch deal with the linguistic 
side of Panini's locality:

1.  "Panini as a frontier grammarian."  Papers from the 19th Regional 
Meeting.  Chicago Linguistic Society, CLS, pp. 110-116, Chicago, 1983.

2.  "Linguistic Presuppositions of Panini 8.3.26-27." Proceedings of the 
International Seminar on Panini, pp. 23-42.  Pune:  Centre of Advanced 
Studies in Sanskrit, University of Poona, 1982

3.  "Panini and the Northwestern Dialect:  Some Suggestions on 
P.3.3.10."  In Languages and Cultures, Studies in Honor of Edgar C. 
Poloome, pp. 111-122, Berlin, Mouton de Gruyter, 1988.

4.  "Sanskrit Grammarians:  Differing Perspectives in Cultural 
Geography."  Aligarh Journal of Oriental Studies, Vol. II, Nos. 1-2, pp. 
57-68, 1985.

	Madhav Deshpande

On Thu, 19 Oct 1995, Alfredo Villarroel wrote:

> >Let us not get carried away by the modern meaning of the word Pathan.
> >However, it is clear that Panini is called a resident of the town of
> >Shalaatura, which is identified with a locality near Peshawar.  I have
> >shown in some of my work that Panini exhibits his familiarity with the
> 
> Could you indicate to me your work on Pa.ini. I will be interrested to read it.
> Thanks,
> 
> Alfredo Villarroel
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> Alfredo Villarroel
> Max-Planck-Institut fuer medizinische Forschung
> Jahnstr. 29
> D-69120 Heidelberg
> e-mail alfredo at sunny.mpimf-Heidelberg.mpg.de
> FaX: (06221) 486-459
> ______________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
 





From apandey at u.washington.edu  Thu Oct 19 21:48:55 1995
From: apandey at u.washington.edu (Anshuman Pandey)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 14:48:55 -0700
Subject: Seeking information on Vedic recensions.
Message-ID: <161227021365.23782.17723682777755900070.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Members,

I have been trying to find information about the Samaveda in terms of the 
upavedas, vedangas, upanishads, brahmanas, srauta sutras, and other 
various writings which originated from it. Accordingly, I am also 
looking for information about the saakhas, chaaranas, etc. and other 
recensions by which the Samaveda was studied and passed down.

Is there a "vedic encyclopedia" of sorts which details this sort of 
information, or am I asking for too much?

Thanks.

Anshuman Pandey

 





From b9100530 at platinum.anu.edu.au  Thu Oct 19 05:31:14 1995
From: b9100530 at platinum.anu.edu.au (b9100530 at platinum.anu.edu.au)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 15:31:14 +1000
Subject: Is CSX the best solution?
Message-ID: <161227021349.23782.10123326523094942670.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Another disadvantage of any system that uses the extended character set is
the very fragile nature of these codes ( i.e. those higher than 127).
If the document has to be converted from one format to another (say from
WP to MS Word or from WP5 to WP) then there are always strange results with
the extended character set.

Adrian Burton
ANU.
 





From kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp  Thu Oct 19 07:19:56 1995
From: kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 16:19:56 +0900
Subject: Is CSX the best solution?
Message-ID: <161227021351.23782.10891231672620410608.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Another disadvantage of any system that uses the extended character set is
>the very fragile nature of these codes ( i.e. those higher than 127).
>If the document has to be converted from one format to another (say from
>WP to MS Word or from WP5 to WP) then there are always strange results with
>the extended character set.

What "strange results" are you referring to? I usually convert from WP 5.1
to Winword - 
naturally, the extended character sets are different, so I have to first
convert the WP5.1-diacritics into some ASCII-convention (such as "a@" for
long a), read the file in WinWord and then run a macro which converts the
ASCII-preliminaries into the TTF-font. 

Otherwise, I have never perceived any "strange results" (not even when
converting from WP 5.1 to WordPerfect for Windows 6.0aJ). 

Birgit Kellner
Institute for Indian Philosophy
University of Hiroshima

 





From raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu  Fri Oct 20 04:13:23 1995
From: raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (Narayan S. Raja)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 18:13:23 -1000
Subject: Is CSX the best solution?
Message-ID: <161227021376.23782.13896674040456717709.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



On Fri, 20 Oct 1995, DR.S.KALYANARAMAN wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Oct 1995, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:
> > 
> > DR.S.KALYANARAMAN said:
> > 
> > The point is to be able to do scholarly work in transliteration, and
> > also to have a standard for text exchange and archiving.  The CSX
> > standard is *not* primarily aimed at text representation, although it
> > can function in that capacity too, of course.
> ascii has a restricted range: 91 keys; ANSI doubles it. I suppose the 
> Truetype fonts e.g. Times Roman based on ANSI set can also provide
> for the tranliteration and text exchange functions.
> > 
> > I don't understand.  There is no ANSI definition for South Asian scripts.
> 
> > 
> The CD ROM I had referred to provides an ANSI definition for the glyphs
> required to represent South asian scripts. For example, the diacritical
> needed for 'r' in Sanskrit required a particular glyph to be ligatured to 
> 'T' and anoter glyph to be ligatured to, say, 's' preceding. Each of these
> glyphs gets assigned an ANSI number from 32 (space) to 255. Thus, ANSI
> enables the depiction of glyphs needed to calligraphic elegance.


Apparently, Dr. Kalyanaraman means "ASCII,"
and not "ANSI."

Regards,


Raja.

 





From treich at midway.uchicago.edu  Fri Oct 20 00:54:47 1995
From: treich at midway.uchicago.edu (treich at midway.uchicago.edu)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 19:54:47 -0500
Subject: Dictionaries
Message-ID: <161227021367.23782.11991628112276293280.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I would like a copy of the compact Monier-Williams. Please add me to the list.
Thanks!
Tamar Reich 

 





From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Fri Oct 20 02:31:44 1995
From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 22:31:44 -0400
Subject: Panini, also "saakalya"
Message-ID: <161227021369.23782.13669903970356291217.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


As Madhav Deshpande has pointed out, there is a connection between the
S'aakala and the Aitareyins: actually it is already Ait. Brahmana 3.43 
that mentions them. 

The interesting points, however, are 

(1) -- as has been well known, more or less since A. Weber in c. 1850,   -- 
tha the older parts of AitBr (books 1-5) are WESTERN  ---       
(from the Kuruksetra/ E. Panjab areas, and thus, presumably connected 
with the much later attested town of S'akala = Greek Saggala [pron. Sangala] of 
Alexander's time; there were no towns in Vedic times..., and that 

(2) the later books (AitBr 6-8) are EASTERN, from Bihar:

precisely where S'atapatha Br. locates Yajnavalkya and S'aakalya at the 
"court" of Janamejaya of Videha ( ~ Mithila). This (vidagdha!) S'aakalya 
of teh late Brahmana period should be identified, as has long been thought, 
with the grammarian S' who composed the Padapatha of the Rgveda -- the 
same S' who is mentioned by Panini as an (eastern) grammarian. 

In fact, the grammatical features of the Padapatha fit EASTERN 
characteristics, not the western ones (of the original Panjab home of 
the S'akala tribe/clan/people). For this and the move eastwards, see my 
study : 
Tracing the Vedic dialects, in: C. Caillat (ed.), Dialectes dans les 
litteratures  indo-aryennes, Paris 1989, p. 97-264. 


(3) As for Panini, his north-western home at Salatura has been known for 
a long time. When teaching, such as in this year's Panini class, I always 
joke that he was Afghani (remembering the fight, in the seventies, between 
Nepalese and Indian Buddhists about the 'nationality' of the Buddha: 
they finally agreed that B. was *born* in Nepal and that he *taught* in 
India... NB: the present boundary dates only from c. 1860 ...)



Of course, there are many indications of Panini's homeland in his bhaashaa: 
like the knowledge of the designation of the Kings of the Kambojas (in  
pre-Persian? times), the names of citizens of Varnu (modern Bannu in E. 
Afghanistan) etc, etc. <<NB: V.S. Agrawal's "India as known to Panini" and 
therefore, Schwartzberg's Hist. Atlas, are not reliable: they confuse the 
evidence from Panini's grammar with that from the enlarged Dhatu- and 
Ganapatha and with that from Katyayana and Patanjali! -- all much later, 
of course.>>

More important perhaps, especially for an eveluation of the importance 
of the NW as his home and the high status of "northern speech" in 
later Vedic texts (Kausitaki Br.7.6), is the fact that Pan. taught archaic 
features, such as the VEDIC ACCENTS, as normal parts of his language (and 
even used them as parts of his META-LANGUAGE in his grammar) --  and that 
he also has many archaic forms (such as certain precatives: K. Hoffmann, 
Aufsatze zur Indo-Iranistik, Wiesbaden 1975-76) forms which are older 
than even those in the Rgveda: as always, the NW is archaic. In 
Kohistan, you call call, even nowadays, your favorite people: 

s'unas putra!  
 





From aparpola at cc.helsinki.fi  Fri Oct 20 05:57:26 1995
From: aparpola at cc.helsinki.fi (Asko H S Parpola)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 07:57:26 +0200
Subject: Seeking information on Vedic recensions.
Message-ID: <161227021378.23782.6940259715267110534.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Thu, 19 Oct 1995, Anshuman Pandey wrote:

> Members,
> 
> I have been trying to find information about the Samaveda in terms of the 
> upavedas, vedangas, upanishads, brahmanas, srauta sutras, and other 
> various writings which originated from it. Accordingly, I am also 
> looking for information about the saakhas, chaaranas, etc. and other 
> recensions by which the Samaveda was studied and passed down.
> 
> Is there a "vedic encyclopedia" of sorts which details this sort of 
> information, or am I asking for too much?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Anshuman Pandey
> 
>  
> 

You can consult Louis Renou's Bibliographie vedique (1931) and the five 
volumes of R. N. Dandekar's Vedic bibliography (1946-1993), and Jan 
Gonda's Vedic literature and The ritual Suutras (A history of Indian 
literature I: 1-2, 1975-7). Best regards, 

---

Asko Parpola  (E-mail Asko.Parpola at Helsinki.Fi)
----------------------------------------------------------
Department of Asian and African Studies, Univ. of Helsinki


 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Fri Oct 20 09:22:46 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 09:22:46 +0000
Subject: Is CSX the best solution?
Message-ID: <161227021373.23782.16331312711260414693.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Thu, 19 Oct 1995, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:
> 
> DR.S.KALYANARAMAN said:
> 
> The point is to be able to do scholarly work in transliteration, and
> also to have a standard for text exchange and archiving.  The CSX
> standard is *not* primarily aimed at text representation, although it
> can function in that capacity too, of course.
ascii has a restricted range: 91 keys; ANSI doubles it. I suppose the 
Truetype fonts e.g. Times Roman based on ANSI set can also provide
for the tranliteration and text exchange functions.
> 
> I don't understand.  There is no ANSI definition for South Asian scripts.

> 
The CD ROM I had referred to provides an ANSI definition for the glyphs
required to represent South asian scripts. For example, the diacritical
needed for 'r' in Sanskrit required a particular glyph to be ligatured to 
'T' and anoter glyph to be ligatured to, say, 's' preceding. Each of these
glyphs gets assigned an ANSI number from 32 (space) to 255. Thus, ANSI
enables the depiction of glyphs needed to calligraphic elegance.

Regards. Dr. S. Kalyanaraman.
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Fri Oct 20 10:12:55 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 10:12:55 +0000
Subject: Is CSX the best solution?
Message-ID: <161227021381.23782.13984986136814857967.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

DR.S.KALYANARAMAN said:
> ascii has a restricted range: 91 keys; ANSI doubles it. I suppose the 
> Truetype fonts e.g. Times Roman based on ANSI set can also provide
> for the tranliteration and text exchange functions.

You miss the point:  it isn't a matter of the size of the available
character set, but that there is a *standard* arrangment of the
code-points in the character set that everyone can refer to.  That is
the point of any character-set standard.  We don't even need to use CSX
in our daily work (though there are distinct advantages in that): but
when we want to exchange texts, or talk sensibly about encoding, at
least we have a fixed reference point.

You say that any 8-bit character set can "provide for the
transliteration and text exchange functions"; well this can only work if
the charset encoding is exchanged along with the text, and separately
from it.  If that isn't done, you obviously get in a mess.  CSX is a
publicly available standard, aimed at solving this problem.

> > I don't understand.  There is no ANSI definition for South Asian scripts.
> 
> The CD ROM I had referred to provides an ANSI definition for the glyphs
> required to represent South asian scripts. For example, the diacritical
> needed for 'r' in Sanskrit required a particular glyph to be ligatured to 
> 'T' and anoter glyph to be ligatured to, say, 's' preceding. Each of these
> glyphs gets assigned an ANSI number from 32 (space) to 255. Thus, ANSI
> enables the depiction of glyphs needed to calligraphic elegance.

Ah.  When you say ANSI, you really mean 8-bit, not ANSI; to say
"provides ANSI definition for the glyphs required to represent South
asian scripts" suggests that the American National Standards Institute
(ANSI) has paid some attention to South Asian scripts.  Sadly, this
isn't true (except for Unicode).  What you are talking about is a
character set with 256 code-points (i.e., 8-bit, 2 to the power 8).

CSX is an 8-bit character set too, and gives access not only to
pre-formed accented characters for Sanskrit etc., but also to those
required for the major European languages (a-circumflex, e-acture,
etc.).

NB: CSX is not a font.  It is a character-set definition, in the same
way as the many definitions published under ISO 8859 (ECMA-94) for
"8-bit single-byte coded graphic character sets".

There are several excellent free and commercial fonts available that use
the CSX character layout.  The free ones (both in PostScript and
TrueType formats) are available via the INDOLOGY gopher/ftp/Web site
(see http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html, and follow the menus
to "supplementary gopher, software").

The documentation for the CSX standard is available in the same place.

Best wishes,
Dominik Wujastyk


 





From fujii at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp  Fri Oct 20 02:46:37 1995
From: fujii at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Masato Fujii)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 11:46:37 +0900
Subject: Seeking information on Vedic recensions.
Message-ID: <161227021371.23782.3258413403534288866.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Anshuman Pandey <apandey at u.washington.edu> wrote$B!'(J
>Members,
>
>I have been trying to find information about the Samaveda in terms of the 
>upavedas, vedangas, upanishads, brahmanas, srauta sutras, and other 
>various writings which originated from it. Accordingly, I am also 
>looking for information about the saakhas, chaaranas, etc. and other 
>recensions by which the Samaveda was studied and passed down.
>
>Is there a "vedic encyclopedia" of sorts which details this sort of 
>information, or am I asking for too much?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Anshuman Pandey
>
> 
>

The following books and articles are to be consulted. Most of them contain 
bibliographies of the editions of Saamavedic texts and further references.  

<General Surveys of Saamavedic 'saakhaas and texts>

Caland, W.: Die Jaiminiiya-Sa.mhitaa mit einer Einleitung "uber die 
Saamavedaliteratur. [Indische Forschungen]. Breslau 1907. (basic refenence!)

Caland, W.: Pa~ncavi.m'sa-Braahma.na: The Braahma.na of Twenty Five Chapters. 
[Bibliotheca Indica, No. 255]. Calcutta 1931. (pp. i-ix on Saamaveic Texts)

Renou, L.: Les 'Ecoles v'ediques et la formation du Veda. Paris 1947. (pp. 
87-129 on Saamaveda)

Parpola, A.: The Literature and Study of the Jaiminiiya Saamaveda in Retrospect 
and Prospect. [Studia Orientalia 43:6]. Helsinki 1973.

Tsuji, N.: "Genzon Saamaveda-bunken no gaikan (Sa.mhitaa-hen)" (in Japanese). 
In: Tsuji Naoshiro Chosakushuu (Tokyo 1981), Vol. 1, 317-344.


<Saamavedic chant>

Howard, W.: Saamavedic Chant. New Haven and London: Yale University Press, 
1977.

<Saamavedic Braahma.nas and Upani.sads>

Caland, W.: Pa~ncavi.m'sa-Braahma.na. (listed above) 

Bodewitz, H. W.: Jaiminiiya Braahma.na I, 1-65. Leiden 1973.
Bodewitz, H. W.: The Jyoti.s.toma Ritual. Jaiminiiya Braahm.na I, 66-364. 
Leiden 1990.

Fujii, M.: "Saishoki-Upanishaddo-bunken no seiritsu to densho 
--Jaiminiiya-Upani.sad-Braahma.na kenkyuu-jyosetsu--," Machikaneyama Ronso 
(Philosophy) 23, Osaka University, 13-25. (the English and revised version 
entitled "On the Formation and Transmission of the Jaiminiiya-Upani.sad- 
Braahma.na" will be soon published in Harvard). 

<Saamavedic 'Srautasuutras>

Parpola, A.: The 'Srautasuutras of Laa.tyaayana and Draahyaaya.na and their 
commentaries. An English translation and study. 2 vols. Helsinki 1968-69.


 









  

Masato FUJII
======================================================
Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
E-mail: fujii at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp
Phone: +81-75-753-6949
Fax: +81-75-753-6903 
======================================================
 





From d.keown at gold.ac.uk  Fri Oct 20 11:26:49 1995
From: d.keown at gold.ac.uk (d.keown at gold.ac.uk)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 12:26:49 +0100
Subject: Is CSX the best solution?
Message-ID: <161227021383.23782.5741100795901120052.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

At 10:22 20/10/95 BST, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

 >There are several excellent free and commercial fonts available that use
>the CSX character layout.  The free ones (both in PostScript and
>TrueType formats) are available via the INDOLOGY gopher/ftp/Web site
>(see http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html, and follow the menus
>to "supplementary gopher, software").

Does anyone know of a font with Romanized diacritics (free or commercial)
that will embed successfully in an Adobe Acrobat PDF document? I've
experimented with both HACC Indic and CS Bitstream Charter without success. 

Thanks,
Damien Keown

 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Fri Oct 20 12:46:54 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 12:46:54 +0000
Subject: revised timetable of Wellcome research seminars
Message-ID: <161227021385.23782.7216107822321758650.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


-- 

Dominik Wujastyk,
Wellcome Institute,
183 Euston Road,
London NW1 2BE.

FAX: +44 171 611 8545
email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk

For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page:
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html

 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Fri Oct 20 13:57:42 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:57:42 +0100
Subject: CSX fonts in PDF
Message-ID: <161227021387.23782.16649580141689700749.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I don't know anything about making PDF files, but perhaps the problem
Damian has had with CSX isn't font-specific?  Just guessing on the basis
of the following post to comp.fonts:
========================================================================
In article <gci.13.00EDF7FA at gcitype.com>, gci at gcitype.com (Graphic
Composition) wrote:

> I was under the impression that the Acrobat Distiller software had an option 
> to include actual fonts (or the necessary characters from a font) in a PDF 
> file. If so, I have not been able to find it.

This feature is only available from v2.0, if you have v1.0 you need to upgrade.

> 
> I know that the Acrobat Reader will create a semi-lookalike font if the 
> requested font is not available on the target system. But is there a way to 
> include the true font in the PDF file so that font integrity will be 
> maintained even if the target computer does not have the font?

Yes, as you have indicated with Distiller 2.0, or the specification of PDF
does allow you to embed fonts in files by "hand" programming them in (you
*really* don't want to do that).


Clive Bruton (AKA The Typonaut)

clive at d-supp.demon.co.uk
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Fri Oct 20 16:07:01 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 16:07:01 +0000
Subject: revised timetable of Wellcome research seminars
Message-ID: <161227021389.23782.17846391395012878346.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

[2nd try ...]

A few weeks ago I posted an early release of our timetable for research
seminars on Asian topics.  Here is the completed version.  Talks with
indological content are marked "**".

Dominik Wujastyk,
Wellcome Institute,
London.



             Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine
               183 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BE, England
             ==============================================

                      Research Seminar 1995 - 1996

         "Medicine, Science, and Technology in Asian Cultures"

                           Tuesday 4.30 p.m.


  3 October 95          Dr Francesca Bray
			Wellcome Unit, University of Manchester
                        A `New History' of non-western Technology:
                        Textiles and Gender in Imperial China

**17 October 95         Mr M. Miles
			Birmingham
                        Goitre Cretinism and Iodine in South Asia - an
                        unfinished story

  31 October 95         Mr David Wright, SOAS
                        The Search for a Technical Vocabulary in 19th
                        Century China

**14 November           Harish Naraindas
                        Delhi University
			Is there an Indian Naturopathy?

  28 November           Dr H. Gebre-Meskel
			SOAS
                        Reflections on the Four Ethiopian Medical
                        Manuscripts in the British Library

  23 January 96         Joanna Grant
			SOAS
                        Issues of Gender in Ming Dynasty Medical Case
                        Histories

   6 February 96	Dr Fritz Zimmermann
                        Oriental Institute, Oxford
			Razi and Farabi Against Galen

   20 February 96       Dr F. Dikotter
                        SOAS
                        Engenics in China

** 5 March 96           Prof. Raymond Mercier
                        Cambridge
                        Indian Mathematical Astronomy

** 19 March 96          Dr Waltraud Ernst
                        University of Southampton
                        Concept of "race" and colonial psychiatry in
                        19th century India.

   2 April 96           Cristina Alvarez-Millan
                        Wellcome Institute, London
                        Daily medical practice in medieval Islam


-- 

Dominik Wujastyk,
Wellcome Institute,
183 Euston Road,
London NW1 2BE.

FAX: +44 171 611 8545
email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk

For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page:
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html

 





From win at neu.edu  Fri Oct 20 20:18:52 1995
From: win at neu.edu (Worldwide Indian Network)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 16:18:52 -0400
Subject: WIN's Entrepreneurial Initiative -- An Invitation
Message-ID: <161227021391.23782.3179653965577564178.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	   This is an invitation from the Worldwide Indian Network (WIN) 
	to all Indians to explore with us the possibility of developing 
	effective and successful businesses.  Our goal is to lay the 
	foundation of an organization within WIN that will facilitate 
	communication and collaboration among people of varying skills 
	and resources.  We intend to foster an entrepreneurial spirit 
	among participants leading to the formation of new business 
	enterprises.

	   During the past half century, Indian politicians have talked 
	themselves into oblivion.  Nevertheless, in each election they 
	continue to get mandates from the people to lead the country in 
	the same direction.  Meanwhile, Japanese workers have built an 
	industrial marvel from a heap of ashes.  Today, Japanese 
	productivity is 12 times that of India, and its per capita gross 
	national product (GNP) is 105 times greater.

	   Following Japan's example would be a good way for India to 
	industrialize herself.  We have the main ingredient -- India has 
	the second largest reservoir of trained manpower in the world 
	(behind the United States).  What we seem to lack is an 
	entrepreneurial tradition which enables us to take risks, and a 
	spirit of cooperation which will make teamwork possible.

	   Henry Ford is the idol of many businessmen; 66 million people 
	around the world drive Ford cars every day.  Conrad Hilton is 
	another idol of many businessmen; 110 thousand people around the 
	world sleep in Hilton Hotels each night.  What we do not know is 
	how many Fords and how many Hiltons failed to realize their 
	ambitions.  Statistics show that 6.0% of start-ups in the United 
	States fail in the first two years.  And only 62.4% of new 
	businesses are still in existence ten years later.  We 
	definitely don't want to fall into the wrong side of that 
	statistic.

	   To this end, we need an organization that will bring together 
	individuals with complementary skills and a common interest in 
	establishing businesses.  Unless one has the right combination 
	of technical and managerial skills along with a sufficient 
	amount of money, the odds are against successfully establishing 
	a solo business.  If one has technical and managerial skills but 
	lacks financial resources, one will need an investor to support 
	any potential venture.  At the same time, investors and venture 
	capitalists need to draw upon people with technical and 
	managerial skills.

	   In addition to the satisfaction we entrepreneurs would 
	achieve for ourselves in establishing businesses, we would also 
	contribute something to our country.  The formation of 
	businesses creates jobs; in turn, the creation of jobs fuels 
	economic growth and prosperity.  A healthy economy can relieve 
	the misery and anguish of people by providing them with decent 
	jobs and can enable them to prosper by offering affordable goods 
	and services.

	   Productivity -- efficiency or output per person -- will 
	definitely take an upward turn once we form businesses.  First, 
	when a person owns his own business, he will be completely 
	committed to its success: he will have a heightened sense of 
	responsibility, he will allow himself no excuses.  Moreover, a 
	creative person, when working for someone else, is not always 
	free to explore his own sense of creativity.  As a business 
	owner, that same person is free to decide the best way to 
	accomplish his objectives.  He will then act with creativity, 
	good judgment, and with full awareness that the success of his 
	business depends primarily on his efforts.

	   Consumers have an enormous amount to gain if productivity 
	improves.  Efficient production leads to better goods at lower 
	prices, and lower prices mean people can have more: more food, 
	more clothes, more leisure, more variety, more of everything 
	money can buy.

	   Each time the Government of India has devalued the currency, 
	the leaders(?) have come up with a very persuasive argument for 
	the illiterate masses: "Exports will improve substantially," 
	they claim.  But the facts prove otherwise.  From 1979 to 1993 
	the rupee has lost three-quarter of its value -- it has 
	depreciated from Rs 8.076 to Rs 31.364 to a dollar.  During this 
	period the cumulative current account deficit of India amounts 
	to $64.11 billion.  In the same fifteen years, the yen has 
	doubled in value -- it has appreciated from Y219.140 to Y111.198 
	to a dollar.  Japan's cumulative current account surplus for 
	this period amounts to $764.47 billion.  What the demagogues in 
	India fail to realize -- or lack the courage to face -- is that 
	the key to improved economic conditions is PRODUCTIVITY.  Only 
	when productivity increases, do employment, incomes, and exports 
	rise.  Productivity growth is the engine that drives the long-
	run improvement of living standards.

	   Two kinds of investors -- those who invest their skills and 
	labor, and those who invest their money -- will compose this 
	organization.  Hopefully, each participant will contribute both 
	kinds of investments.

	   Those who invest their skills and labor will benefit in many 
	ways.  First, they will eliminate the middleman -- the employer 
	-- and receive the total benefits of their labor.  If the 
	employer pays an employee one dollar he does so only if he makes 
	at least two dollars out of the employee.  Moreover, because the 
	entrepreneurs will be their own bosses, they will derive greater 
	personal satisfaction from their work, and they will have 
	control over their own destiny.

	   The investors of money will also benefit in several ways.  
	They will receive a higher return on their savings.  If a bank 
	pays 5% interest, it is certainly making at least that amount 
	for itself.  By eliminating the middleman -- the bank -- and 
	investing directly in businesses, the investors receive the full 
	benefit of their savings.  Furthermore, they will own a portion 
	of a business, rather than simply giving money over to a bank 
	for the bank to invest.  Thus the investors will have direct 
	control over their money.

	   Finally, the channeling of funds from individuals who have 
	savings to others with productive investment opportunities will 
	be a tremendous boost for the economy and to the parties 
	involved in the exchange.  Each investor will have the great 
	satisfaction of knowing he is promoting the economic success of 
	India.

	   If you are willing to help your fellow Indians in forming 
	businesses, please send an e-mail to win at neu.edu.  Use the word 
	BUSINESS in the subject line, and your e-mail address (in small 
	letters only), home zip code, full name and telephone number(s) 
	in the body using the following format:

	bhalder at lynx.neu.edu : 02128 : Mr Biswanath Halder H617-567-0667
 





From MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in  Sat Oct 21 09:05:56 1995
From: MDSAAA48 at giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (DR.S.KALYANARAMAN)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 95 09:05:56 +0000
Subject: Is CSX the best solution?
Message-ID: <161227021393.23782.1661326796028195691.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Fri, 20 Oct 1995, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:
> 
> You say that any 8-bit character set can "provide for the
> transliteration and text exchange functions"; well this can only work if
> the charset encoding is exchanged along with the text, and separately
> from it.  If that isn't done, you obviously get in a mess.  CSX is a
> publicly available standard, aimed at solving this problem.
> 
> CSX is an 8-bit character set too, and gives access not only to
> pre-formed accented characters for Sanskrit etc., but also to those
> required for the major European languages (a-circumflex, e-acture,
> etc.).
> 
> NB: CSX is not a font.  It is a character-set definition, in the same
> way as the many definitions published under ISO 8859 (ECMA-94) for
> "8-bit single-byte coded graphic character sets".
> 
Re: On sounds, sights and computers

I assumed that many would be familiar with ISCII standard. 
However, it may be useful to recount, in a rather long note, the status 
of the
evolution of standards for Indian script processing on computers.

ON SOUNDS

After a decade of protracted deliberations, a standard was adopted 
in India in 1991 to 'process' languages on computers: ref. Bureau
of Indian Standards (BIS), Indian Script Code for Information
Interchange (ISCII); cf. BIS document 13194:1991.

This was a standard which laid out the keyboard layout phonetically
for all Indian languages. This enabled a concordance being established
with the 7-bit ASCII standard used on most personal computers. The
phonetic keyboard on QWERTY keys for example would be: 

au, ai, A, I, U, (vowels), bh

and on 'qwerty' keys would be:

au, ai, A, I, U, (corresponding vowel diacriticals), b

Other examples:
Nasals such as En, an were keyed to the ASCII '!', '@'; jn, tr, kS, zr
were keyed to the ASCII '%', '^', '&', '*'; the unique Tamil consonants
'n' (vallina nakaram), 'ZH' were keyed to the ASCII 'V', 'B'

The basic design objective of this ASCII key was to provide for
transliteration from one Indian language to another Indian language.
Electronics Commission of India tried to promote the design and
production of terminals based on this standard. (Jus as King Canute
failed to roll back the waves of the sea, ECI also failed, unable
to withstand the tidal waves of applications which washed around
the Windows-based platforms.)

ON SIGHTS

This ISCII standard was a partial computing solution since the glyphs
corresponding to the phonetics of the 'ISCII keyboard' were not
identified and keyed to a standard layout. This glyph layout was
not possible owing to the limiting space of a 7-bit character set
which could accommodate only 128 glyphs. This led to 'programmed'
software solutions, to compose or typeset a limited repertoire of
glyphs based on keyed-in sequences. These solutions compounded the
problem; specific applications (wp, spreadsheet etc.)
had to be developed which incorporated these composition programming
routines.

A new standard was, therefore, evolved on the 8-bit (256 character set)
which had become the standard to accommodate for example, the Roman
extended character set (with 'a' umlauts, accents etc.) most dominantly
in MS Windows. This 8-bit standard (exemplified by CDAC- Centre for
Development of Advanced Computing) is unique for each script of each
language. For example, for Sanskrit, ANSI numbers 202, 203, 204, 205 
are keyed to the glyphs 'i', 'im', 'r-i' (as in: a-r-m-i, movement; 
da-r-v-i, ladle), 'r-i-m'(as in: a-r-k-i-m, radiant with light).

COMPUTERS

The ISCII phonetic 91-key structure PLUS the CDAC 8-bit glyph structure 
are thus the Indian language standards to depict the sounds and sights
of the Indian languages on the computers which conform to the ANSI
8-bit standard.

Writing systems: with touch-screen or mouse-based 'text entry' devices,
using MS Windows, the phonetic keyboard can be substituted by
an ANSI (8-bit) chart displayed on the screen. In fact, Windows 95
uses this as a standard feature. The chart pops up in one window,
superimposed on the application screen (which may be a WP text, or an 
ACCESS database or an EXCEL spreadsheet).

The advantage of this method of 'keying' is the elimination of 
a phonetic keyboard interface (like the ISCII keyboard). The ANSI
display chart becomes the direct graphical user interface (GUI).

UNICODE

Unicode is the specification (evolving) for a unique character set
encoding for all of the world's languages, using a double byte (16-bit)
encoding system defined by the Unicode consortium which includes
Mcrosoft, Apple, IBM etc.

I believe that the CDAC glyphs standard for Indian scripts are excellent
for incorporation in the Unicode specification. The same standard is used
on the CDROM with 1500+ fonts for South Asian languages published
by Scanrom Publications, NY, USA. These fonts are truetype/postscript
type and portable to Windows, Mac, OS/2 and Unix 8-bit platforms. Since
the diacritical glyphs are designed to 'intelligently' ligature themselves
at appropriate locations of the preceding 'principal' glyphs, no 
programming intervention is required to do 'composing' or 'typesetting'.

For those who prefer the use of QWERTY or DVORAK keyboard for 'keying',
without waiting for the Godot Unicode, MSWindows 95 makes available a 
simple ANSI solution: 
any ANSI chart character can be keyed to any desired keyboard 
key sequences. This can be defined for each font or a group of language
fonts.

The advantage of this method is the portability of the glyphs chart
on to ALL APPLICATIONS which run on the Windows platform. Thus the
Indian language scripts can be depicted directly on wp, dtp, teleprocessing,
spreadsheed, database, transliteration etc. etc. applications.


Dr. S. Kalyanaraman
Indus Sarasvati Research Centre,
20 Warren Road, Mylapore, Madras 600004
Tel. 91-44-493-6288; Fax. 91-44-499-6380
email: mdsaaa48 at giasmd01.VSNL.net.inM
 





From Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at  Sat Oct 21 11:01:32 1995
From: Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at (Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 95 12:01:32 +0100
Subject: WIN's Entrepreneurial Initiative -- An Invitation
Message-ID: <161227021394.23782.341292920146940132.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Indology is an academic group. Kindly post your commercial crap elsewhere.


>	   This is an invitation from the Worldwide Indian Network (WIN) 
>	to all Indians to explore with us the possibility of developing 
>	effective and successful businesses.  Our goal is to lay the 
>	foundation of an organization within WIN that will facilitate 
>	communication and collaboration among people of varying skills 
>	and resources.  We intend to foster an entrepreneurial spirit 
>	among participants leading to the formation of new business 
>	enterprises.
>
>	   During the past half century, Indian politicians have talked 
>	themselves into oblivion.  Nevertheless, in each election they 
>	continue to get mandates from the people to lead the country in 
>	the same direction.  Meanwhile, Japanese workers have built an 
>	industrial marvel from a heap of ashes.  Today, Japanese 
>	productivity is 12 times that of India, and its per capita gross 
>	national product (GNP) is 105 times greater.
>
>	   Following Japan's example would be a good way for India to 
>	industrialize herself.  We have the main ingredient -- India has 
>	the second largest reservoir of trained manpower in the world 
>	(behind the United States).  What we seem to lack is an 
>	entrepreneurial tradition which enables us to take risks, and a 
>	spirit of cooperation which will make teamwork possible.
>
>	   Henry Ford is the idol of many businessmen; 66 million people 
>	around the world drive Ford cars every day.  Conrad Hilton is 
>	another idol of many businessmen; 110 thousand people around the 
>	world sleep in Hilton Hotels each night.  What we do not know is 
>	how many Fords and how many Hiltons failed to realize their 
>	ambitions.  Statistics show that 6.0% of start-ups in the United 
>	States fail in the first two years.  And only 62.4% of new 
>	businesses are still in existence ten years later.  We 
>	definitely don't want to fall into the wrong side of that 
>	statistic.
>
>	   To this end, we need an organization that will bring together 
>	individuals with complementary skills and a common interest in 
>	establishing businesses.  Unless one has the right combination 
>	of technical and managerial skills along with a sufficient 
>	amount of money, the odds are against successfully establishing 
>	a solo business.  If one has technical and managerial skills but 
>	lacks financial resources, one will need an investor to support 
>	any potential venture.  At the same time, investors and venture 
>	capitalists need to draw upon people with technical and 
>	managerial skills.
>
>	   In addition to the satisfaction we entrepreneurs would 
>	achieve for ourselves in establishing businesses, we would also 
>	contribute something to our country.  The formation of 
>	businesses creates jobs; in turn, the creation of jobs fuels 
>	economic growth and prosperity.  A healthy economy can relieve 
>	the misery and anguish of people by providing them with decent 
>	jobs and can enable them to prosper by offering affordable goods 
>	and services.
>
>	   Productivity -- efficiency or output per person -- will 
>	definitely take an upward turn once we form businesses.  First, 
>	when a person owns his own business, he will be completely 
>	committed to its success: he will have a heightened sense of 
>	responsibility, he will allow himself no excuses.  Moreover, a 
>	creative person, when working for someone else, is not always 
>	free to explore his own sense of creativity.  As a business 
>	owner, that same person is free to decide the best way to 
>	accomplish his objectives.  He will then act with creativity, 
>	good judgment, and with full awareness that the success of his 
>	business depends primarily on his efforts.
>
>	   Consumers have an enormous amount to gain if productivity 
>	improves.  Efficient production leads to better goods at lower 
>	prices, and lower prices mean people can have more: more food, 
>	more clothes, more leisure, more variety, more of everything 
>	money can buy.
>
>	   Each time the Government of India has devalued the currency, 
>	the leaders(?) have come up with a very persuasive argument for 
>	the illiterate masses: "Exports will improve substantially," 
>	they claim.  But the facts prove otherwise.  From 1979 to 1993 
>	the rupee has lost three-quarter of its value -- it has 
>	depreciated from Rs 8.076 to Rs 31.364 to a dollar.  During this 
>	period the cumulative current account deficit of India amounts 
>	to $64.11 billion.  In the same fifteen years, the yen has 
>	doubled in value -- it has appreciated from Y219.140 to Y111.198 
>	to a dollar.  Japan's cumulative current account surplus for 
>	this period amounts to $764.47 billion.  What the demagogues in 
>	India fail to realize -- or lack the courage to face -- is that 
>	the key to improved economic conditions is PRODUCTIVITY.  Only 
>	when productivity increases, do employment, incomes, and exports 
>	rise.  Productivity growth is the engine that drives the long-
>	run improvement of living standards.
>
>	   Two kinds of investors -- those who invest their skills and 
>	labor, and those who invest their money -- will compose this 
>	organization.  Hopefully, each participant will contribute both 
>	kinds of investments.
>
>	   Those who invest their skills and labor will benefit in many 
>	ways.  First, they will eliminate the middleman -- the employer 
>	-- and receive the total benefits of their labor.  If the 
>	employer pays an employee one dollar he does so only if he makes 
>	at least two dollars out of the employee.  Moreover, because the 
>	entrepreneurs will be their own bosses, they will derive greater 
>	personal satisfaction from their work, and they will have 
>	control over their own destiny.
>
>	   The investors of money will also benefit in several ways.  
>	They will receive a higher return on their savings.  If a bank 
>	pays 5% interest, it is certainly making at least that amount 
>	for itself.  By eliminating the middleman -- the bank -- and 
>	investing directly in businesses, the investors receive the full 
>	benefit of their savings.  Furthermore, they will own a portion 
>	of a business, rather than simply giving money over to a bank 
>	for the bank to invest.  Thus the investors will have direct 
>	control over their money.
>
>	   Finally, the channeling of funds from individuals who have 
>	savings to others with productive investment opportunities will 
>	be a tremendous boost for the economy and to the parties 
>	involved in the exchange.  Each investor will have the great 
>	satisfaction of knowing he is promoting the economic success of 
>	India.
>
>	   If you are willing to help your fellow Indians in forming 
>	businesses, please send an e-mail to win at neu.edu.  Use the word 
>	BUSINESS in the subject line, and your e-mail address (in small 
>	letters only), home zip code, full name and telephone number(s) 
>	in the body using the following format:
>
>	bhalder at lynx.neu.edu : 02128 : Mr Biswanath Halder H617-567-0667
> 
>
>

 





From ai927 at freenet.carleton.ca  Mon Oct 23 12:37:19 1995
From: ai927 at freenet.carleton.ca (ai927 at freenet.carleton.ca)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 08:37:19 -0400
Subject: WIN's Entrepreneurial Initiative -- An Invitation
Message-ID: <161227021396.23782.11343062217726288319.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

whoever you are please do not send me any more mail.

  ai927 at freenet.carleton.ca

>
>	   This is an invitation from the Worldwide Indian Network (WIN) 
>	to all Indians to explore with us the possibility of developing 
>	effective and successful businesses.  Our goal is to lay the 
>	foundation of an organization within WIN that will facilitate 
>	communication and collaboration among people of varying skills 
>	and resources.  We intend to foster an entrepreneurial spirit 
>	among participants leading to the formation of new business 
>	enterprises.
>
>	   During the past half century, Indian politicians have talked 
>	themselves into oblivion.  Nevertheless, in each election they 
>	continue to get mandates from the people to lead the country in 
>	the same direction.  Meanwhile, Japanese workers have built an 
>	industrial marvel from a heap of ashes.  Today, Japanese 
>	productivity is 12 times that of India, and its per capita gross 
>	national product (GNP) is 105 times greater.
>
>	   Following Japan's example would be a good way for India to 
>	industrialize herself.  We have the main ingredient -- India has 
>	the second largest reservoir of trained manpower in the world 
>	(behind the United States).  What we seem to lack is an 
>	entrepreneurial tradition which enables us to take risks, and a 
>	spirit of cooperation which will make teamwork possible.
>
>	   Henry Ford is the idol of many businessmen; 66 million people 
>	around the world drive Ford cars every day.  Conrad Hilton is 
>	another idol of many businessmen; 110 thousand people around the 
>	world sleep in Hilton Hotels each night.  What we do not know is 
>	how many Fords and how many Hiltons failed to realize their 
>	ambitions.  Statistics show that 6.0% of start-ups in the United 
>	States fail in the first two years.  And only 62.4% of new 
>	businesses are still in existence ten years later.  We 
>	definitely don't want to fall into the wrong side of that 
>	statistic.
>
>	   To this end, we need an organization that will bring together 
>	individuals with complementary skills and a common interest in 
>	establishing businesses.  Unless one has the right combination 
>	of technical and managerial skills along with a sufficient 
>	amount of money, the odds are against successfully establishing 
>	a solo business.  If one has technical and managerial skills but 
>	lacks financial resources, one will need an investor to support 
>	any potential venture.  At the same time, investors and venture 
>	capitalists need to draw upon people with technical and 
>	managerial skills.
>
>	   In addition to the satisfaction we entrepreneurs would 
>	achieve for ourselves in establishing businesses, we would also 
>	contribute something to our country.  The formation of 
>	businesses creates jobs; in turn, the creation of jobs fuels 
>	economic growth and prosperity.  A healthy economy can relieve 
>	the misery and anguish of people by providing them with decent 
>	jobs and can enable them to prosper by offering affordable goods 
>	and services.
>
>	   Productivity -- efficiency or output per person -- will 
>	definitely take an upward turn once we form businesses.  First, 
>	when a person owns his own business, he will be completely 
>	committed to its success: he will have a heightened sense of 
>	responsibility, he will allow himself no excuses.  Moreover, a 
>	creative person, when working for someone else, is not always 
>	free to explore his own sense of creativity.  As a business 
>	owner, that same person is free to decide the best way to 
>	accomplish his objectives.  He will then act with creativity, 
>	good judgment, and with full awareness that the success of his 
>	business depends primarily on his efforts.
>
>	   Consumers have an enormous amount to gain if productivity 
>	improves.  Efficient production leads to better goods at lower 
>	prices, and lower prices mean people can have more: more food, 
>	more clothes, more leisure, more variety, more of everything 
>	money can buy.
>
>	   Each time the Government of India has devalued the currency, 
>	the leaders(?) have come up with a very persuasive argument for 
>	the illiterate masses: "Exports will improve substantially," 
>	they claim.  But the facts prove otherwise.  From 1979 to 1993 
>	the rupee has lost three-quarter of its value -- it has 
>	depreciated from Rs 8.076 to Rs 31.364 to a dollar.  During this 
>	period the cumulative current account deficit of India amounts 
>	to $64.11 billion.  In the same fifteen years, the yen has 
>	doubled in value -- it has appreciated from Y219.140 to Y111.198 
>	to a dollar.  Japan's cumulative current account surplus for 
>	this period amounts to $764.47 billion.  What the demagogues in 
>	India fail to realize -- or lack the courage to face -- is that 
>	the key to improved economic conditions is PRODUCTIVITY.  Only 
>	when productivity increases, do employment, incomes, and exports 
>	rise.  Productivity growth is the engine that drives the long-
>	run improvement of living standards.
>
>	   Two kinds of investors -- those who invest their skills and 
>	labor, and those who invest their money -- will compose this 
>	organization.  Hopefully, each participant will contribute both 
>	kinds of investments.
>
>	   Those who invest their skills and labor will benefit in many 
>	ways.  First, they will eliminate the middleman -- the employer 
>	-- and receive the total benefits of their labor.  If the 
>	employer pays an employee one dollar he does so only if he makes 
>	at least two dollars out of the employee.  Moreover, because the 
>	entrepreneurs will be their own bosses, they will derive greater 
>	personal satisfaction from their work, and they will have 
>	control over their own destiny.
>
>	   The investors of money will also benefit in several ways.  
>	They will receive a higher return on their savings.  If a bank 
>	pays 5% interest, it is certainly making at least that amount 
>	for itself.  By eliminating the middleman -- the bank -- and 
>	investing directly in businesses, the investors receive the full 
>	benefit of their savings.  Furthermore, they will own a portion 
>	of a business, rather than simply giving money over to a bank 
>	for the bank to invest.  Thus the investors will have direct 
>	control over their money.
>
>	   Finally, the channeling of funds from individuals who have 
>	savings to others with productive investment opportunities will 
>	be a tremendous boost for the economy and to the parties 
>	involved in the exchange.  Each investor will have the great 
>	satisfaction of knowing he is promoting the economic success of 
>	India.
>
>	   If you are willing to help your fellow Indians in forming 
>	businesses, please send an e-mail to win at neu.edu.  Use the word 
>	BUSINESS in the subject line, and your e-mail address (in small 
>	letters only), home zip code, full name and telephone number(s) 
>	in the body using the following format:
>
>	bhalder at lynx.neu.edu : 02128 : Mr Biswanath Halder H617-567-0667
> 
>
>
 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Oct 23 12:54:54 1995
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 08:54:54 -0400
Subject: anouncing a new publication on Skt. Grammar
Message-ID: <161227021398.23782.9757421993418589701.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,

	The following publication may be of interest to many of you.  
This is:
	Vaacaspatyam, Pt. Vamanashastri Bhagwat Felicitation Volume
	Edited by Saroja Bhate and Madhav Deshpande
	Pune:  Vaidika Samshodhana Mandala, 1994.

The volume contains articles, mostly related to issues in Sanskrit 
grammatical tradition (a few biographical and non-grammar pieces), by the 
following scholars:
	Ashok Aklujkar
	Saroja Bhate
	Johannes Bronkhorst
	Vit Bubenik
	Madhav Deshpande
	Pradeep Gokhale
	Yashodhara Kar
	John D. Kelly
	Noriyuki Kudo
	Christopher Z. Minkowski
	G.B. Palsule
	Stephen Thompson
	Toshiya Unebe
	Toshihiro Wada
	Dominik Wujastyk

Copies of the volume can be ordered from:
	Secretary, Vaidika Samshodhana Mandala, Pune 411 037, India

	Madhav Deshpande
 





From jh at cubsps.bio.columbia.edu  Mon Oct 23 14:03:28 1995
From: jh at cubsps.bio.columbia.edu (Jim Hartzell)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 10:03:28 -0400
Subject: revised timetable of Wellcome research seminars
Message-ID: <161227021400.23782.10759835429793073589.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Would it be possible to post copies of the papers presented?
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Mon Oct 23 18:19:57 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 18:19:57 +0000
Subject: Alert!  replying to commercials
Message-ID: <161227021405.23782.8528399035452150689.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Please note that the return address for the recent intrusive commercials
that have been posted to INDOLOGY is INDOLOGY itself.  So if you feel
justifiable annoyance and hit the "r" key to pen a rebuke, the rebuke
doesn't go to the perpetrators, but to all your fellow sufferers, making
them suffer eveb more.  And if you included the original message as a
way of filling up the perpertrators mailbox, you actually fill up your
own and those of all other members of INDOLOGY.

Aaarrgh!  Not what you intended at all!

And then, you might think that the b!!!!!! people are sending you the
message again, so you respond even more angrily, ....

So when we get these unwelcome, commercial splashes in the placid lake
of INDOLOGY, please let's make sure that if we throw a stone back, we
throw it at the person standing on the shore, and not back into the lake.


Dominik Wujastyk


 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Mon Oct 23 22:54:27 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 22:54:27 +0000
Subject: okay, 1, 2, ... 3 no more on this topic!
Message-ID: <161227021409.23782.9849284587250196327.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The next round of exchanges on the topic of commercial postings threatens
to become a set of meta-meta-complaints.

Okay, people: on the count of three, we all *stop* discussing this.  Agreed?

:-)

Dominik

aatmano mukhado.se.na badhyante "sukasaarikaa.h /
bakaas tatra na badhyante mauna.m sarvaarthasaadhanam //

 





From kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp  Mon Oct 23 16:39:01 1995
From: kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 01:39:01 +0900
Subject: Junk Mail and replies
Message-ID: <161227021402.23782.3421677543755842415.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

...I would just like to remind people, when replying to junk-mail, NOT to
blindly hit the reply-button without verifying the "reply-to" line in the
header. What I personally hate even more than junk-mail are replies to it
which a) go to the mailing-list instead of to the sender and b) quote the
entire junk-mail yet another time. Thanks, but no thanks. 

End of distraction, 

Birgit Kellner
Institute for Indian Philosophy
University of Hiroshima

 





From A.Raman at massey.ac.nz  Mon Oct 23 20:40:41 1995
From: A.Raman at massey.ac.nz (Anand Venkt Raman)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 09:40:41 +1300
Subject: WIN's Entrepreneurial Initiative -- An Invitation
Message-ID: <161227021407.23782.12795003277880549984.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>whoever you are please do not send me any more mail.
>
>  ai927 at freenet.carleton.ca
>
>>
>>	   This is an invitation from the Worldwide Indian Network (WIN) 
>>	to all Indians to explore with us the possibility of developing

Why is it that those who complained reproduced the entire article they
complain about? Is this extra advertising for the original poster
intentional?

- &
 





From Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at  Tue Oct 24 09:28:02 1995
From: Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at (Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 10:28:02 +0100
Subject: Alert!  replying to commercials
Message-ID: <161227021411.23782.6172984804092372311.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Quite right. I apologize.


Max Nihom

 





From juvvadi at allegra.att.com  Tue Oct 24 15:15:42 1995
From: juvvadi at allegra.att.com (juvvadi at allegra.att.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 11:15:42 -0400
Subject: Documentation on ISCII
Message-ID: <161227021418.23782.13822630851689789107.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


I was told that there was a discussion on ISCII representation. Can anybody
send me some documentation on ISCII representation.

Ramana

 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Tue Oct 24 17:58:02 1995
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 13:58:02 -0400
Subject: email address?
Message-ID: <161227021416.23782.16180943568348729193.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anyone know the e-mail address of Prof. Kees Versteegh, Institut 
TCMO, Erasmusplein 1, NL - 6500 HD, Nijmegen, Netherlands?

	Madhav Deshpande
 





From Ulrich.Berner at uni-bayreuth.de  Tue Oct 24 13:08:56 1995
From: Ulrich.Berner at uni-bayreuth.de (U. Berner)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 14:08:56 +0100
Subject: addresses
Message-ID: <161227021413.23782.266544921250065251.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>
>
>
>
>On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Jayandra Soni wrote:
>
>> >Could anybody give me the email address or fax number of Prof. H.
>> >Bechert and Prof. Ch. Lindtner ?
>> >
>> >Thank you.
>> >
>> >Raffaele Torella
>> >
>> >Raffaele Torella
>> >ecc....
>> >
>> 
>> 
>>  Prof.Dr. H. Bechert, Seminar fuer Indologie und Buddhismuskunde,
>> Hainbundstrasse 21, Goettingen, D-37085, phone: (0551)57068;
>> Hermann-Foege-Weg 1a, Goettingen, D-37085, phone(0551)485765 (from "German
>> Indology" compiled by Agnes Stache-Weiske, Munich 1988).

...additions: fax number: (Germany) (0)551 48014; e-mail: kwille at gwdg.de
 





From mrabe at artic.edu  Wed Oct 25 09:35:09 1995
From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 04:35:09 -0500
Subject: Digital Indological Dream?
Message-ID: <161227021421.23782.2563342335366507258.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On October 17th Dominik began this thread:

>In the longish message that follows, I ask you to consider the future
>possibilities and directions for computer-based resources of use or
>interest to indologists.  Please don't bother to read on if this does
>not interest you.  I am just fishing for ideas and opinions, and I
>fully understand that you may be too busy for this.  (I am!)   :-)
>
My initial response forecast [that]:

Like MYST, indological best sellers (of the future--come quickly!) will
probably be authored by individuals...with real vision for the medium...

Example:
        Just hours ago, a student of mine here at The School of the Art
Institute of Chicago [nom de mouse: Samnation, whom I had not even met yet
last week] started working on a Hindu Arts web site.  If you're running a
graphical browser, please have a look at what he's constructed so far--like
Visvakarman in a single night!

http://www.mcs.net/~nation/home/hindu.htm

His links include reference to a fine on-line journal that I hadn't heard
about yet myself, Asian Arts.  (And his own first appropriation exercise
includes a modified self portrait peering from dvaras of the Kapalesvara
gopuram!)

Michael Rabe




 





From ORACLE at wl.aecl.ca  Wed Oct 25 13:32:20 1995
From: ORACLE at wl.aecl.ca (ORACLE at wl.aecl.ca)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 08:32:20 -0500
Subject: Documentation on ISCII
Message-ID: <161227021424.23782.5165060875173706318.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hello Ramanagaru,

	The unicode mapping of Indian languages is based on ISCII representation, with very minor extensions/variations. So, by looking at the unicode standard
volume I, which you should be able to borrow from a university library, you can
get a very good idea of what ISCII is. Both ISCII and unicode map only the
basic alphabet set, but I have not seen a standard for the mapping of glyphs 
required to compose the scripts anywhere. Unicode doc specifically states
that glyphs are not part of the standard. I don't know if ISCII has any standardfor glyphs, if so what is it.

Regards,
Desikachary,
AECL,Canada.
 





From kalluri at dahlgren-19.Eng.Sun.COM  Wed Oct 25 16:29:50 1995
From: kalluri at dahlgren-19.Eng.Sun.COM (kalluri at dahlgren-19.Eng.Sun.COM)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 09:29:50 -0700
Subject: WIN's Entrepreneurial Initiative -- An Invitation
Message-ID: <161227021426.23782.13094698660841383808.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Hi,

I am an observer on this group, and couldn't help but notice the
strong reaction to some junk mail that has been sent here.  If I
could make one suggestion, when junk mail is posted to the group
it is best to send a short message expressing your feelings to
the originator.  I got a quick reply from the person who sent the
the Entrepreneurial Initiative mail (follows).

Then, there will be others that hide their email addresses. The
only thing to do here is to ignore the message.

Please excuse the interruption.

R. Kalluri


----- Begin Included Message -----

>From bhalder at lynx.dac.neu.edu Mon Oct 23 16:40 PDT 1995
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 19:39:32 -0400
From: biswanath halder <bhalder at lynx.dac.neu.edu>
To: bhalder at lynx.dac.neu.edu, kalluri at dahlgren-19.Eng.Sun.COM, win at new.edu
Subject: Re: WIN's Entrepreneurial Initiative -- An Invitation

	   I had no idea what the "Indology" group was all about.  Now 
	that I know, I am not going to post anything to this mail alias 
	any more.

	   Sorry for the inconvenience.


----- End Included Message -----

 





From KWEGMAN at vax1.miu.edu  Wed Oct 25 15:58:58 1995
From: KWEGMAN at vax1.miu.edu (KWEGMAN at vax1.miu.edu)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 10:58:58 -0500
Subject: why sanskrit?
Message-ID: <161227021429.23782.2796786163053602996.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I am currently writting a proposal that would ultimately (ideally) bring the
study of sanskrit to a wider audience.  In support of this proposal I am
seeking input from sanskritists here on the list. What I would like to know is:

1) Why do you feel the study of sanskrit is important?  

2) Based on (1), why is sanskrit not more widely studied? (any statistics
regarding this point, for example, graduate sanskrit drop-out rates, would be
helpful)

If you don't mind being quoted, please include your name and credentials and/or
institution.

It would be greatly appreciated if you could include in a response
any resources: books, papers, or quotes which remark on
the virtues of the sanskrit language and its study.

Please don't feel obligated to a lengthy reply, even brief answers can be
helpful.
Thank you in advance for your support!

Keith Wegman

 
 





From apandey at u.washington.edu  Thu Oct 26 03:30:11 1995
From: apandey at u.washington.edu (Anshuman Pandey)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 20:30:11 -0700
Subject: Norse AEsir and Vedic Asura.
Message-ID: <161227021432.23782.10387781981054204447.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Members,

Is the Norse word for god, AEsir, a cognate of the Vedic, Asura? Does 
the AE in AEsir represent a negation of the word sir, as the a does for 
asura? I am wondering this because asura and AEsir are names for the 
older generation of deities in the Vedic writings and Eddic and other 
Norse writing, and am curious to know whether there is any common ground 
between the two.

Thanks.

Anshuman Pandey


 





From mrabe at artic.edu  Thu Oct 26 10:45:03 1995
From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 05:45:03 -0500
Subject: a Vedic reference to Siva
Message-ID: <161227021438.23782.790034832568483360.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

An undocumented eText[http://www.utexas.edu/students/amso/ror/hindu-d.html]
cites this passage as from a Vedic hymn to Siva:

"We invoke with obeisance, the ruddy of the sky, with spiral braided hair,
a brilliant form. Far be thy cow slaying and man slaying weapon."

Off hand, can anyone supply chapter and verse?

Thanks,
Michael Rabe







 





From pdb1 at columbia.edu  Thu Oct 26 13:33:28 1995
From: pdb1 at columbia.edu (Peter D Banos)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 09:33:28 -0400
Subject: Norse AEsir and Vedic Asura.
Message-ID: <161227021444.23782.13120360301721332744.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Anshuman Pandey wrote:
 
> Is the Norse word for god, AEsir, a cognate of the Vedic, Asura? Does 
> the AE in AEsir represent a negation of the word sir, as the a does for 
> asura? I am wondering this because asura and AEsir are names for the 
> older generation of deities in the Vedic writings and Eddic and other 
> Norse writing, and am curious to know whether there is any common ground 
> between the two.

Hmmn.
I'll have to check, but my impression is that in "AEsir" the 
"AEs" is really the root of the word, and "-ir" merely a plural ending.
Old Norse tends to have -r in its endings where Greek and Latin have -s 
and Skt has visarga (which also turns into -r under the right conditions!)

							-Peter D. Banos
							pdb1 at columbia.edu
 





From nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk  Thu Oct 26 11:37:50 1995
From: nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk (Nicholas Ostler)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 11:37:50 +0000
Subject: Norse AEsir and Vedic Asura.
Message-ID: <161227021441.23782.18265626504202982580.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Is the Norse word for god, AEsir, a cognate of the Vedic, Asura? 

I believe Aesir to be the plural of Asa (cf another race of Nordic gods:
Van pl. Vanir).  As such it would have nothing to do with Asura, certainly
not if that word is really a privative form of Sura.

Nicholas Ostler

Nicholas Ostler              ** New address, phone & fax as of 3 Nov 1995 **
Linguacubun Ltd                 
17 Oakley Road                  Batheaston Villa, 172 Bailbrook Lane
London N1 3LL                   Bath       BA1 7AA       England
+44-171-704-1481                +44-1225-85-2865 fax +44-1225-85-9258
          nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk


 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Oct 26 17:15:13 1995
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 13:15:13 -0400
Subject: Norse AEsir and Vedic Asura.
Message-ID: <161227021455.23782.7841602493624754748.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	Clearly the word Asura is originally not a privative form of 
Sura, but derived as asu+ra.  Only in later times, the word Sura was 
derived from the word Asura through reanalysis, when the word Asura 
developed a largely negative meaning.
	In any case, it was my impression that while the word Deva has 
Indo-European cognates, the word Asura/Ahura (iranian) does not go beyond 
the common Indo-Iranian period.
	M. Deshpande

On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Nicholas Ostler wrote:

> >Is the Norse word for god, AEsir, a cognate of the Vedic, Asura? 
> 
> I believe Aesir to be the plural of Asa (cf another race of Nordic gods:
> Van pl. Vanir).  As such it would have nothing to do with Asura, certainly
> not if that word is really a privative form of Sura.
> 
> Nicholas Ostler
> 
> Nicholas Ostler              ** New address, phone & fax as of 3 Nov 1995 **
> Linguacubun Ltd 
> 17 Oakley Road                  Batheaston Villa, 172 Bailbrook Lane
> London N1 3LL                   Bath       BA1 7AA       England
> +44-171-704-1481                +44-1225-85-2865 fax +44-1225-85-9258
>           nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk
> 
> 
>  
> 
 





From witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Thu Oct 26 17:39:06 1995
From: witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (witzel at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 13:39:06 -0400
Subject: a Vedic reference to Siva
Message-ID: <161227021453.23782.18178307663280194276.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>




On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Michael Rabe wrote:

> An undocumented eText[http://www.utexas.edu/students/amso/ror/hindu-d.html]
> cites this passage as from a Vedic hymn to Siva:
> 
> "We invoke with obeisance, the ruddy of the sky, with spiral braided hair,
> a brilliant form. Far be thy cow slaying and man slaying weapon."


The answer is easy if one knows the word for "spiral braided hair" = 
kapardin.

The first part of the quotation is Rgveda 1.114.5, from a hymn to Rudra, 
the Vedic predecessor of Shiva:

                 divo' varaaha'm aruSa'm kapardi'nam 
                 tveSa'M  ruupa'M na'masaa ni' hvayaamahe |


The second part is from some other hymn, and takes much more time to 
identify. It is not part of this hymn or the other Rgvedic one (6.5.52) with 
the rare word kapardin in the accusative (also not in later Vedic texts as a 
brief survey of Vishwa Bandhu's Vedic Word Concordance easily allows to 
say.NB that the hymn or verse is not quoted later one...).

Also not found in the Rudra chapters of the Yajurveda, e.g. 
Taittiriya Samhita 4.5.5.1 sqq. --- TS 4.5.10 gives a good list of such wishes, 
including the standard one: not to hurt bidpeds and quadrupeds which somes 
close to the above.


MW

 





From J.Napier at unsw.EDU.AU  Thu Oct 26 06:11:03 1995
From: J.Napier at unsw.EDU.AU (J.Napier)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 16:11:03 +1000
Subject: samaveda (accompaniment in!)
Message-ID: <161227021435.23782.8206766389072747782.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In reading general histories of Indian music one almost inevitably finds 
reference to the ancient practice of accompanying the performance of the 
samaveda with various musical instruments, even though this is completely 
at odds with contemporary performance practice. Naradiyasiksa 1.6.1-2 does 
note that some sama-chanters use the gatravina, but this has been shown by 
Rowell in his Music and Musical Thought in Ancient India (1992: 87) to be, 
as its name suggest, a metaphor for the human body.

I would be interested in any other views, or further information, on this 
subject.

Thanking you

John Napier
University of New South Wales
Sydney Australia
 





From P.Magnone at agora.stm.it  Thu Oct 26 16:35:10 1995
From: P.Magnone at agora.stm.it (P.Magnone at agora.stm.it)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 16:35:10 +0000
Subject: a Vedic reference to Siva
Message-ID: <161227021451.23782.14774294459006213250.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



The passage looks like a mixture of excerpts from RV 1,114:

5: divo varaaham aruZaM kapardinaM tveZaM ruupaM namasaa ni hvayaamahe

10: aare te goghnam uta puruZaghnaM...


Paolo Magnone
Catholic University of Milan
P.Magnone at agora.stm.it


---------------------------------------------------------------------
On 26-Ott-95 Michael Rabe wrote:

 > An undocumented
 > eText[http://www.utexas.edu/students/amso/ror/hindu-d.html] cites
 > this passage as from a Vedic hymn to Siva:

 > "We invoke with obeisance, the ruddy of the sky, with spiral
 > braided hair, a brilliant form. Far be thy cow slaying and man
 > slaying weapon."

 > Off hand, can anyone supply chapter and verse?

 > Thanks, Michael Rabe



 





From P.Magnone at agora.stm.it  Thu Oct 26 16:35:19 1995
From: P.Magnone at agora.stm.it (P.Magnone at agora.stm.it)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 16:35:19 +0000
Subject: Norse AEsir and Vedic Asura.
Message-ID: <161227021446.23782.5831301247594993532.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



 _Asura_ as a-sura is believed to be a false etymology dating from the
 upanishadic period, when it accordingly led to the creation of a new
 word for "gods", _sura_, not attested in older texts.

 The word stems in all probability from _asu_ "vital breath" + _ra_,
 meaning something like "master of vital breath", and as such it is
 indeed cognate to Norse _ass_ (pl. aesir) (as well as to Avestic
 _ahura_).


Paolo Magnone
Catholic University of Milan
P.Magnone at agora.stm.it




--------------------------------------------------------------------
On 26-Ott-95 Anshuman Pandey wrote:


 > Members,

 > Is the Norse word for god, AEsir, a cognate of the Vedic, Asura?
 > Does the AE in AEsir represent a negation of the word sir, as the
 > a does for asura? I am wondering this because asura and AEsir are
 > names for the older generation of deities in the Vedic writings
 > and Eddic and other Norse writing, and am curious to know whether
 > there is any common ground between the two.

 > Thanks.

 > Anshuman Pandey


 





From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no  Thu Oct 26 16:12:32 1995
From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 17:12:32 +0100
Subject: Norse AEsir and Vedic Asura.
Message-ID: <161227021449.23782.10715304547130763497.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> _Asura_ as a-sura is believed to be a false etymology dating from the
> upanishadic period, when it accordingly led to the creation of a new
> word for "gods", _sura_, not attested in older texts.
>
> The word stems in all probability from _asu_ "vital breath" + _ra_,
> meaning something like "master of vital breath", and as such it is
> indeed cognate to Norse _ass_ (pl. aesir) (as well as to Avestic
> _ahura_).
>

For an alternative opinion, look up Mayrhofer's etymological dictionary. If
I remember correctly, he offers another theory as well.

Lars Martin Fosse



Lars Martin Fosse
Research Fellow
Department of East European
and Oriental Studies
P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
N-0315 OSLO Norway

Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
Fax: +47 22 85 41 40

E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no


 





From zskiljan at public.srce.hr  Thu Oct 26 23:01:18 1995
From: zskiljan at public.srce.hr (zskiljan at public.srce.hr)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 00:01:18 +0100
Subject: Sanskrit & Pali dictionaries and texts ?
Message-ID: <161227021458.23782.7472296741855756625.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

____________________________________________________________________________________

                 Zdenko Shkiljan
     email:      zskiljan at jagor.srce.hr
                 sizskilj at filozof.ffzg.hr
 snailmail:      Praunspergerova 2/1 
                 10430 Samobor
 ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From athr at loc.gov  Fri Oct 27 15:31:16 1995
From: athr at loc.gov (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 11:31:16 -0400
Subject: Sadratnamala
Message-ID: <161227021463.23782.13683265590873089819.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I don't find this title in LC or OCLC.  Could Mr. Raman tell us who it is 
by and what language it's in, in case it may appear in some collection?  
Also any other pertinent information.

Allen Thrasher
Library of Congress
athr at loc.gov


On Fri, 27 Oct 1995, Anand Venkt Raman wrote:

> Is there a translated edition of the work Sadratnamala available
> anywhere? If not, I'd be willing to settle for the original Sanskrit
> version if that is at least available. Has anybody published it recently
> at all?
> 
> Many thanks in advance.
> 
> - &
> --
> Anand Venkt Raman                 Ph: +64-6-350-4186, 355-0062 (a/h)
> Dept of Computer Science          Fx: +64-6-350-5611
> http://fims-www.massey.ac.nz/~ARaman
>  
> 
 





From A.Raman at massey.ac.nz  Fri Oct 27 03:22:31 1995
From: A.Raman at massey.ac.nz (Anand Venkt Raman)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 16:22:31 +1300
Subject: Sadratnamala
Message-ID: <161227021461.23782.11241675035105828163.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Is there a translated edition of the work Sadratnamala available
anywhere? If not, I'd be willing to settle for the original Sanskrit
version if that is at least available. Has anybody published it recently
at all?

Many thanks in advance.

- &
--
Anand Venkt Raman                 Ph: +64-6-350-4186, 355-0062 (a/h)
Dept of Computer Science          Fx: +64-6-350-5611
http://fims-www.massey.ac.nz/~ARaman
 





From mrabe at artic.edu  Sat Oct 28 00:52:20 1995
From: mrabe at artic.edu (mrabe at artic.edu)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 19:52:20 -0500
Subject: a Vedic reference to Siva
Message-ID: <161227021466.23782.6921449738771898485.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thank you, Professors Witzel, Magnone and others who replied directly to my
request for identification of Vedic references to Rudra/[Siva]/

>The answer is easy if one knows the word for "spiral braided hair" =
>kapardin.
>
>The first part of the quotation is Rgveda 1.114.5, from a hymn to Rudra,
>the Vedic predecessor of Shiva:
>
>                 divo' varaaha'm aruSa'm kapardi'nam
>                 tveSa'M  ruupa'M na'masaa ni' hvayaamahe |
>
>
>The second part is from some other hymn, and takes much more time to
>identify. It is not part of this hymn or the other Rgvedic one (6.5.52) with
>the rare word kapardin in the accusative (also not in later Vedic texts as a
>brief survey of Vishwa Bandhu's Vedic Word Concordance easily allows to
>say.NB that the hymn or verse is not quoted later one...).
>
>Also not found in the Rudra chapters of the Yajurveda, e.g.
>Taittiriya Samhita 4.5.5.1 sqq. --- TS 4.5.10 gives a good list of such
>wishes,
>including the standard one: not to hurt bidpeds and quadrupeds which somes
>close to the above.
>
>
>MW
>
>


 





From Reganch at aol.com  Sun Oct 29 14:23:20 1995
From: Reganch at aol.com (Reganch at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 95 09:23:20 -0500
Subject: why sanskrit?
Message-ID: <161227021469.23782.6018474226505591214.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I would like to respond to your questions, but would prefer to do so
directly. If you have an email address I would be happy to respond.
 





From apandey at u.washington.edu  Mon Oct 30 03:33:09 1995
From: apandey at u.washington.edu (Anshuman Pandey)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 95 19:33:09 -0800
Subject: Gotras and the Vedas.
Message-ID: <161227021471.23782.9613690072766704261.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Does there exist a formal system or certain tradition whereby specific 
gotras are associated with specific Vedas and their recensions, or are 
gotras and their association with the Vedic schools independent of 
tradition and system and dependent on choice?

In his Hindu Tribes and Castes (1872), M. A. Sherring provides a list 
similar to the following in which he categorized gotra families under 
specific Vedas. Is there much accuracy in this list?

Samavedins    Yajurvedins    Rgvedins   Atharvavedins   The rest of the
----------    -----------    --------   -------------   Brahmans, of all
Kasyapa       Bharadvaja     Bhargava   Kaushika        gotras, follow
Kaasyapa      Bhaaradvaja    Sankrita   Grtakaushika    the Vajurveda.
Vatsa         Angiraah       Garga      Mudhgala
Sandilya      Gautama        Bhrgu      Galawa
Dhananjya     Upamanyu       Saunak     Vashisht


Thanks.


Anshuman Pandey


 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Oct 30 13:49:03 1995
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 95 08:49:03 -0500
Subject: Gotras and the Vedas.
Message-ID: <161227021474.23782.16778288827373990558.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This listing is obviously not accurate.  I am myself from a Rigvedin 
Brahmana family and my gotra is Bharadvaaja.  For details of Gotras and 
Pravaras, see the extensive work of Brough and Ghurye.
	Madhav Deshpande

On Mon, 30 Oct 1995, Anshuman Pandey wrote:

> 
> Does there exist a formal system or certain tradition whereby specific 
> gotras are associated with specific Vedas and their recensions, or are 
> gotras and their association with the Vedic schools independent of 
> tradition and system and dependent on choice?
> 
> In his Hindu Tribes and Castes (1872), M. A. Sherring provides a list 
> similar to the following in which he categorized gotra families under 
> specific Vedas. Is there much accuracy in this list?
> 
> Samavedins    Yajurvedins    Rgvedins   Atharvavedins   The rest of the
> ----------    -----------    --------   -------------   Brahmans, of all
> Kasyapa       Bharadvaja     Bhargava   Kaushika        gotras, follow
> Kaasyapa      Bhaaradvaja    Sankrita   Grtakaushika    the Vajurveda.
> Vatsa         Angiraah       Garga      Mudhgala
> Sandilya      Gautama        Bhrgu      Galawa
> Dhananjya     Upamanyu       Saunak     Vashisht
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Anshuman Pandey
> 
> 
>  
> 
 





From IBENBNW at MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU  Tue Oct 31 16:21:00 1995
From: IBENBNW at MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (robert l brown)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 08:21:00 -0800
Subject: Search: Journal of the Bihar Research Society
Message-ID: <161227021499.23782.17571135368885947871.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have a copy of the 1956 "Journal of the Bihar Research Society."  I suspect
Rick Asher (Univ of Minnesota) has a more complete set.  If you know which
article you want from the 1956 volume, I can xerox it for you.  Robert L. Brown

------------------------------TEXT-OF-YOUR-MAIL--------------------------------

> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 08:46:30 GMT
> Reply-To: indology at LIVERPOOL.AC.UK
> Sender: indology-request at LIVERPOOL.AC.UK
> From: kellner at UE.IPC.HIROSHIMA-U.AC.JP(Birgit Kellner)
> To: Members of the list <indology at LIVERPOOL.AC.UK>
> Subject: Search: Journal of the Bihar Research Society
>
> I am looking for copies of the "Journal of the Bihar Research Society"
> (Patna) of the
> years 1950, 1955 and 1956. Unfortunately, I cannot provide more detailled
> references (issue numbers etc.). Would anybody know how to get hold of ....?
>
>
> Birgit Kellner
> Institute for Indian Philosophy
> University of Hiroshima
>
>
 





From thayashi at doshisha.ac.jp  Tue Oct 31 01:06:15 1995
From: thayashi at doshisha.ac.jp (thayashi at doshisha.ac.jp)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 10:06:15 +0900
Subject: Sadratnamala
Message-ID: <161227021487.23782.13780396947475631979.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The _Sadratnamaalaa_ is an astronomical work written by Prince
"Sa.nkaravarman (alias Appu Tampuraan) of Ka.tattanaa.d in AD 1832.  Mr. C.
M. Whish knew him well.  The work in Malayalam script with the
auto-commentary in Malayalam was once published  in the _Kavanodayam_ 16,
1898.

Mss.: Adyar Library 67735, and GOML (Madras) R 4448.

See:
K. K. Raja, `Astronomy and mathematics in Kerala', _Brahmavidyaa_ 27, 1963,
118--167 (esp. 165--166).
S. N. Sen, _A Bibliography of Sanskrit Works on Astronomy and Mathematics_,
New Delhi: National Commission for the Compilation of History of Science in
India, 1966, p. 191.
K. V. Sarma, _A History of the Kerala School of Hindu Astronomy (in
Perspective)_, Hoshiarpur: Vishveshvaranand Institute, 1972, p. 78.
K. V. Sarma, _A Bibliography of Kerala and Kerala-Based Astronomy and
Astrology_, Hoshiarpur: Vishveshvaranand Institute, 1972, p. 91.

Yours,
Hayashi

P.S. --- Some time ago Krishna Kunchithapadam wrote:
----------------------------
I too have a question regarding the sankhya.  I have come across 
a sloka which encodes the digits of the the decimal expansion of
pi (correct to about 20+ decimal places) based on the katapayadi
sankhya.
...
    gopi bhaagya madhu vrata, srngisho dadhisandhiga |
    khalajivita khatava, galahata rasandhara ||

I appreciate a pointer to the source or any other relevant
information. 
----------------------------
The verse in question is found to be a quite new production by Swami
Bharati Krishna Tirthaji in his book, _Vedic Mathematics_, Delhi: Motilal,
1978.  Note that his `Vedic mathematics' is nothing to do with the
mathematics in the Vedic period.  For this see, for example, R. C. Gupta,
`Six types of Vedic mathematics', _Ga.nita Bhaaratii (Bulletin of the
Indian Society for History of Mathematics)_ 16, 1994, 5--15.
=======================
At 11:11 PM 95.10.30 +0000, Anand Venkt Raman wrote:
>Dear Mr Thrasher,
>
>>I don't find this title in LC or OCLC.  Could Mr. Raman tell us who it is 
>>by and what language it's in, in case it may appear in some collection?  
>>Also any other pertinent information.
>
>The work is referenced in Datta and Singh, "History of Hindu
>mathematics", Asia Publishing house, Bombay, 1962. The book gives a
>description of the Katapayadi scheme supposedly from a work called
>Sadratnamala, which J.F.Fleet's article quotes from a paper of Whish
>(1827), as of unspecified source.
>
>Unfortunately I had returned my copy of the Datta and Singh book which
>was on interloan, but have re-requested it, so I should be able to
>give more information soon.
>
>- &
>--
>Anand Venkt Raman                 Ph: +64-6-350-4186, 355-0062 (a/h)
>Dept of Computer Science          Fx: +64-6-350-5611
>http://fims-www.massey.ac.nz/~ARaman
> 

 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Tue Oct 31 10:58:56 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 10:58:56 +0000
Subject: Sadratnamala
Message-ID: <161227021489.23782.12888415179830376083.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


The Sadratnamala is a Keralan work on jyotisa, of the tantra type, in
six chapters.  It was composed in 1823 by Sankaravarman of Katattanat
(1800--38).  He was a prince, also known as Appu Tampuran, and belonged
to the royal house of Tampuran in North Malabar.  The Sadratnamala was
published with auto-commentary in the Malayalam monthly Kavanodayam,
vol. 16, 1898, Calicut.

Information from the excellent _A history of the Keral school of Hindu
astronomy_ by K. V. Sarma (Hoshiarpur, Vishvesharanand Institute, 1972).
No ISBN.


-- 

Dominik Wujastyk,
Wellcome Institute,
183 Euston Road,
London NW1 2BE.

FAX: +44 171 611 8545
email: d.wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk

For my PGP public key etc., see my WWW home page:
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/wujastyk.html

 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Tue Oct 31 11:01:18 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 11:01:18 +0000
Subject: Search: Journal of the Bihar Research Society
Message-ID: <161227021493.23782.4126912822839111520.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Birgit Kellner said:
> 
> I am looking for copies of the "Journal of the Bihar Research Society"
> (Patna) of the
> years 1950, 1955 and 1956. Unfortunately, I cannot provide more detailled
> references (issue numbers etc.). Would anybody know how to get hold of ....?

SOAS has them.  You could use IIL?

Dominik

 





From A.Raman at massey.ac.nz  Mon Oct 30 22:05:16 1995
From: A.Raman at massey.ac.nz (Anand Venkt Raman)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 11:05:16 +1300
Subject: Sadratnamala
Message-ID: <161227021476.23782.4087426239212327683.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Mr Thrasher,

>I don't find this title in LC or OCLC.  Could Mr. Raman tell us who it is 
>by and what language it's in, in case it may appear in some collection?  
>Also any other pertinent information.

The work is referenced in Datta and Singh, "History of Hindu
mathematics", Asia Publishing house, Bombay, 1962. The book gives a
description of the Katapayadi scheme supposedly from a work called
Sadratnamala, which J.F.Fleet's article quotes from a paper of Whish
(1827), as of unspecified source.

Unfortunately I had returned my copy of the Datta and Singh book which
was on interloan, but have re-requested it, so I should be able to
give more information soon.

- &
--
Anand Venkt Raman                 Ph: +64-6-350-4186, 355-0062 (a/h)
Dept of Computer Science          Fx: +64-6-350-5611
http://fims-www.massey.ac.nz/~ARaman
 





From dran at cs.albany.edu  Tue Oct 31 16:21:57 1995
From: dran at cs.albany.edu (Paliath Narendran)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 11:21:57 -0500
Subject: Sadratnamala
Message-ID: <161227021497.23782.5852621127231160757.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dominik wrote: 

> The Sadratnamala is a Keralan work on jyotisa, of the tantra type, in
> six chapters.  It was composed in 1823 by Sankaravarman of Katattanat
> (1800--38).  He was a prince, also known as Appu Tampuran, and belonged
> to the royal house of Tampuran in North Malabar.  The Sadratnamala was
                        ^^^^^^^^

royal house of kaTattanAT, not tampurAn. `tampurAn' merely means
(something like) `Lord.' Male members of all royal families are
addressed as tampurAn.

Kunjunni Raja (in his `The Contribution of Kerala to Sanskrit
Literature,' pub. by the University of Madras) gives 1774-1838 as
Appu Tampuran's time period.  The date of composition of
Sadratnamaala is given as 1824.

Narendran
 





From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk  Tue Oct 31 14:19:54 1995
From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 14:19:54 +0000
Subject: Geldner's RV in English?
Message-ID: <161227021502.23782.9830444897255234278.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

James A. Santucci, in his _An Outline of Vedic Literature_ (AAR, 1976),
p. 3, says that Geldner's German translation of the RV is "being
translated into English and will be appearing in print shortly".

What happened to this project?  Who was doing it?

Dominik Wujastyk

 





From bhagavam at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu  Tue Oct 31 21:19:35 1995
From: bhagavam at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (manu bhagavan)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 15:19:35 -0600
Subject: Email address and Rotary/Richter Scholars
Message-ID: <161227021503.23782.10049945932695741829.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anyone happen to know the email address of Michael Fisher and/or 
Paula Richman at Oberlin College?

Also, I am searching for information on the Rotary and Richter (Rickter?) 
Scholarships.  Does anyone happen to know who is eligible for such 
fellowships (i.e., is it open to "Asianists", undergrads, graduate 
students, or junior or senior faculty), who the contact people are, when 
the deadlines are, and/or what the reputation of these grants are?

Much obliged for your help in these matters.

Manu Bhagavan

 





From kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp  Tue Oct 31 08:36:39 1995
From: kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 17:36:39 +0900
Subject: Search: Journal of the Bihar Research Society
Message-ID: <161227021478.23782.8022029438586827583.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I am looking for copies of the "Journal of the Bihar Research Society"
(Patna) of the
years 1950, 1955 and 1956. Unfortunately, I cannot provide more detailled
references (issue numbers etc.). Would anybody know how to get hold of ....?


Birgit Kellner
Institute for Indian Philosophy
University of Hiroshima

 





From garzilli at shore.net  Tue Oct 31 23:28:24 1995
From: garzilli at shore.net (Enrica Garzilli)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 18:28:24 -0500
Subject: Email address and Rotary/Richter Scholars
Message-ID: <161227021507.23782.17583584492762395278.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Tue, 31 Oct 1995, manu bhagavan wrote:

> Also, I am searching for information on the Rotary and Richter (Rickter?) 
> Scholarships.  Does anyone happen to know who is eligible for such 

Re the Rotary Scholarships, you should ask the Rotary Club of the place 
where you live. I highly recomend to get to know some Member, too.  

eg
 





From thayashi at doshisha.ac.jp  Tue Oct 31 14:33:25 1995
From: thayashi at doshisha.ac.jp (thayashi at doshisha.ac.jp)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 23:33:25 +0900
Subject: Sadratnamala
Message-ID: <161227021495.23782.13731572797281149569.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The date of the composition of the _Sadratnamaalaa_ is AD 1823 as Dominik
gave correctly.  My `1832' was a mistake.

Hayashi

 





From torella at axrma.uniroma1.it  Tue Oct 31 23:30:46 1995
From: torella at axrma.uniroma1.it (torella at axrma.uniroma1.it)
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 95 00:30:46 +0100
Subject: KAtantravyAkaraNa
Message-ID: <161227021505.23782.9560409127736639662.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

does anybody know where I can find an edition of the sub-commentaries on
DurgasiMha's vRtti on the KAtantravyAkaraNa ?

Best regards,
Raffaele Torella.

Raffaele Torella,
Dipartimento di Studi Orientali,
Universita' di Roma "La Sapienza".