From antoine at satyam.satyam.com Sat Jul 1 04:28:44 1995 From: antoine at satyam.satyam.com (Antoine) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 95 04:28:44 +0000 Subject: survey on indian information Message-ID: <161227020176.23782.4077138177348509527.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear friend, This is a survey implemented by Satyam Computer Service Limited. Satyam is in the process of setting up a fee-based information service on Internet. This survey is intended to effectively implement the information service. We request you to provide your valuable feedback. All those who reply before 10th August, 1995 will receive One month's free subscription to the Information Service. Thanks in advance, Antoine Rubini - antoine at satyam.satyam.com 1 ) For how long have you been an Internet user ? (A) Less than 6 -months [ ] (B) 1 - 2 years [ ] (C) 2 - 3 years [ ] (D) 3 - 4 years [ ] (E) 4 - 5 years [ ] 2) Which medium would you most prefer to receive information by? (A) E-Mail [ ] (B) Ftp [ ] (C)Gopher [ ] (D) Web Sites [ ] 3) On which of the following Indian subjects are you interested in receiving information ? A) Matrimonial Ads [ ] B) Indian Educational Information [ ] C) Travel / Tourism information [ ] D) Investment opportunities [ ] E) Real Estate Purchasing Information [ ] F) Entertainment Services [ ] G) Software/Computer related services [ ] F) Any others ( Please specify) 1_______________________________________________________________ 2_______________________________________________________________ 3_______________________________________________________________ 4) Which of the following methods of payment do you prefer ? A) Hourly flat fee [ ] B) Monthly flat fee [ ] C) Yearly flat fee [ ] C) Flat fee per file downloaded [ ] D) Flat fee per KB [ ] E) Fee per service (i.e. matrimonial) [ ] F) Any others (Please Specify) ________________________ 5) Most often which of the following quantities of information will you need ? A) Only leads [ ] B) Brief Summary [ ] C) Detailed, evaluated information [ ] D) Individually customized information [ ] 6) How much would you be willing to pay for the following quantities of information? (Please specify amount according to qestion # 4 ) A) Only leads $___________ B) Brief Summary $___________ C) Detailed, evaluated information $___________ D) Individually customized information $___________ 7) Which of the following ways would you prefer to make your payments? A) Prepaid advance account [ ] B) Credit Card [ ] C) Cheque/DD [ ] D) DigiCash or Electronic currency if available [ ] 8) Your name: First _____________________________ Middle_____________________________ Last_______________________________ 9) To which age group do you belong ? (A) 15-20 [ ] (B) 21-30 [ ] (C) 31-40 [ ] (D) 41-50 [ ] (E) 51-60 [ ] (F) 61-70 [ ] 10) Is your annual income? A) under $25000 [ ] B) $25000-$35000 [ ] C) $35000-$55000 [ ] D) $55000-$75000 [ ] E) $75000-$100000 [ ] F) $100000-$250000 [ ] J) Over $250000 [ ] 11) Approximately how much do you spend on getting information on India per Year? A) Less than $50 [ ] B) $50-$150 [ ] C) $150-250 [ ] D) $250-350 [ ] E) $350-500 [ ] F) More than $500 [ ] THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION. Please send your responses to the following address: antoine at satyam.satyam.com From kalyans at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 2 18:20:53 1995 From: kalyans at ix.netcom.com (kalyans at ix.netcom.com) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 95 11:20:53 -0700 Subject: Deciphering the Harappan 'cult object' Message-ID: <161227019883.23782.8682828067541525483.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> THE 'CULT OBJECT' ON HARAPPAN SEALS What was this 'cult object' which occurs on Harappan seals 'called' in the lingua franca of circa 2500-1700 BC? Using the 'rebus' principle for decipherment of glyphs is a method that proved successful in deciphering Egyptian hieroglyphics. This principle has been modified and extended to cope with the Harappan glyphs (e.g. svastika) and other pictorial motifs (e.g. unicorn, 'cult object', animals occupying the 'field' of the seals with inscribed sign sequences). WHAT DOES THE 'CULT OBJECT' LOOK LIKE? It is a portable device that could be carried with hands aloft the shoulder of the carrier, as evidenced in Harappan tablets where this object occurs also a field symbol by itself (without the ubiquitous 'unicorn'). The structure has two elements. It depicts a 'flow' or a 'churning motion' on the upper element. The upper element ends in a tapering, sharp-pointed edge as it is rests on the lower element. The lower element is a bowl which also depicts some 'spilling' or 'drops' or alternatively, some 'smoke or dust' and 'dotted droplets'. Mahadevan calls the structure a 'filter' and sees echoes of 'soma process. I call it a 'drill-lathe'. It looks like a drill used by the lapidary to drill holes in, say, faience beads. The rationale for this interpretation is as follows: The upper element is the sharp-pointed drill bit depicted with zig-zag lines in a churning motion. The lower element is a portable stove depicted with flames or smoke emanating and bits of 'drilled' articles depicted with dotted circles around the bowl. WHAT WAS THE 'CULT OBJECT' CALLED? There is a morpheme in Gujarati (and cognate words of South asian languages which can be semantically clustered) which connotes both a 'drill-lathe' and a 'portable stove'. The morpheme is sangaDi. Rebus: jangaDi is an extraordinarily specific, technical-professional term in Gujarati. It connotes an armored guard who accompanies the treasure brought into or taken out of the treasury. A cognate Sanskritized morpheme is jagada = a guard. cf. also jagati = pedestal. Dr. S. Kalyanaraman kalyans at ix.netcom.com 2 July 1995 From pdb1 at columbia.edu Mon Jul 3 04:08:26 1995 From: pdb1 at columbia.edu (Peter D Banos) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 95 00:08:26 -0400 Subject: Tamil & Japanese Message-ID: <161227019885.23782.10394241856826132677.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, Ganesan wrote: > Here are some random things that come to my mind - the views > of an interested outsider for the field of linguitics/humanities. Fair enough. > The early poems of Japanese literature and Tamil Sangam poetry have several > similarities. Especially, the tamil akam poems describing "interior landscape" > (See A. K. Ramanujan's aesthetic translations) and Japanese > love poems.... > Nowadays, lot of tiny poems modelled on Japanese Haiku are being written > in Tamil. After all, Tamil is eminently suitable to write poetry > with "uLLuRai poruL" and "iRaicci". I find this extremely suggestive and intriguing. I wish I knew more about both traditions of poetry; they are very beautiful. There are certainly serious phonetic and syntactical parallels between Japanese and the Dravidian languages... > Bodhi Daruma, founder of Zen, (Note the 'u' letter. This is unlike > Bodhi Dharma of Sanskrit/Indo Aryan tradition) hailed from Kanchipuram > and is popular in Japan. I must warn you that the "u" doesn't really mean much. Japanese doesn't have consonant clusters, so the only way they _can_ write/say/conceptualize a word like "dharma" is by putting a "u" into it. "Christmas" similarly becomes something like "Kurisumasu." > Japanese alphabets are arranged almost like Tamil (tamiz neTungkaNakku). > (in the katakana system?) Japanese script is called Kanchi script. No, the Chinese characters borrowed to write Japanese are called "Kanji," from the Chinese "han-tzu;" the term just means "Chinese characters" and has nothing to do with Kanchi. The syllabic characters derived ultimately from Kanji, called "kana," (there are two types: hiragana and katakana,) _are_ in fact arranged in a sequence that bears a strong resemblance to that of the Tamil alphabet. I _believe_ this is due to the fact that both sequences are derived from the Sanskrit alphabetical order - with quirks due to the fact that (a) a lot of Skt consonants are missing from both the Tamil _and_ Japanese systems, not being needed for either language; and (b) some sounds have changed since the systems were first devised. I have always been struck by the fact that in the place in the sequence where Skt has a palatal "c" Japanese has "s," and the corresponding Tamil character often sounds like an "s" also. On the other hand the Japanese "h" derived from and occupying the place of "p" is I think unique... Presumably whoever devised the kana order knew something about Skt, or _some_ Indian language. The legendary inventor of kana, Kobo Daishi, apparently studied Skt in China. On the other hand, people and information very likely got to Japan also by sea from South India... Anyone know more about this? -Peter D. Banos pdb1 at columbia.edu From ECL6TAM at lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk Mon Jul 3 10:43:04 1995 From: ECL6TAM at lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk (Alec McAllister) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 95 10:43:04 +0000 Subject: Tamil & Japanese Message-ID: <161227019886.23782.14846317616972580308.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >> Japanese alphabets are arranged almost like Tamil (tamiz neTungkaNakku). >> (in the katakana system?) Japanese script is called Kanchi script. > >The syllabic characters derived ultimately from Kanji, called "kana," >(there are two types: hiragana and katakana,) >_are_ in fact arranged in a sequence that bears a strong resemblance to >that of the Tamil alphabet. I _believe_ this is due to the fact that both >sequences are derived from the Sanskrit alphabetical order - with quirks >due to the fact that (a) a lot of Skt consonants are missing from >both the Tamil _and_ Japanese systems, not being needed for either >language; and (b) some sounds have changed since the systems were first >devised. I have always been struck by the fact that in the place in the >sequence where Skt has a palatal "c" Japanese has "s," and the >corresponding Tamil character often sounds like an "s" also. On the other >hand the Japanese "h" derived from and occupying the place of "p" is I think >unique... I'm not a specialist, but I believe that the Japanese "h" sound derived from an earlier "F" sound, which could have derived from a still earlier "P". Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could comment on that. Alec McAllister. email: T.A.McAllister at Leeds.AC.UK From jds10 at cus.cam.ac.uk Mon Jul 3 12:09:05 1995 From: jds10 at cus.cam.ac.uk (John D. Smith) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 95 13:09:05 +0100 Subject: Mahabharata, Ramayana, and other goodies Message-ID: <161227019888.23782.11878815321366148067.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have placed complete texts of the Mahabharata and the Ramayana on my anonymous ftp server, together with various other items. The texts are derived from those typed up by Prof. Muneo Tokunaga of Kyoto: they have been converted to standard CSX encoding, and I have also made large (in the case of the MBh, VERY large) numbers of corrections. Problems, limitations, ways of converting to printed Devanagari, etc., are explained in README files accompanying the texts. A further text of perhaps more restricted interest is also available: the Rajasthani epic of Pabuji as published by me in 1991. On the same server there are fonts which may be of value to Indologists: CSX-encoded versions of the standard Times fonts for use with TeX; PC versions of Roy Norman's Macintosh-based fonts (all the diacriticals you ever wanted, but one or two as yet unsolved problems); software to allow use of Ken Bryant's Devanagari font Jaisalmer with TeX. Finally there are utility programs (writtten in Perl) to convert between encodings, convert Sanskrit epic text to Devanagari, etc. As with the text material, there are README files in all the directories to explain what's what. The server doubles as my everyday computer, so I have to keep numbers of simultaneous anonymous ftp accesses very low. Please be patient if you are unable to reach the material you want at the first attempt. Please note also that all file transfers are logged. The server is bombay.oriental.cam.ac.uk. The base directory is /pub/john, which contains two further directories: /pub/john/text and /pub/john/software. From there everything branches out in what I hope is a self-explanatory fashion. Please report any problems in accessing the material to jds10 at cam.ac.uk. You are strongly recommended to use binary mode for all transfers. -- John Smith Dr J. D. Smith, Faculty of Oriental Studies, jds10 at cam.ac.uk Sidgwick Avenue, Cambridge CB3 9DA Tel. 01223 335140 Fax 01223 335110 From mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk Mon Jul 3 20:05:07 1995 From: mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 95 21:05:07 +0100 Subject: location of F. Bizot Message-ID: <161227019889.23782.5144173314408662110.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone know the current location of F. Bizot ? I have not been able to reach him either at his usual address in Chiengmai or care of the School in Paris. I would be grateful for assistance on this. Lance Cousins. MANCHESTER, UK Telephone (UK): 0161 434 3646 From kalyans at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 4 04:33:25 1995 From: kalyans at ix.netcom.com (kalyans at ix.netcom.com) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 95 21:33:25 -0700 Subject: Learning sanskrit Message-ID: <161227019891.23782.32681830820765314.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> You may like to pass on the following information for those interested in learning sanskrit: FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN LEARNING SANSKRIT The following two organizations offer correspondence/ audio cassette-based courses: 1. Corresponde course Hindu Seva Pratishthana Girinagar, Bangalore 560 085, India Tel. 011-91-80-661-3052 Duration of course: 2 years; consists of 4 parts, each for 6 months Minimum age: 16 years Audio cassettes are also available. 2. Album of audio cassettes of sanskrit lessons for beginners Through the support provided by Sanskrit Education Society, Madras 600018, an album of audio cassettes and printed literature have been prepared for beginners by and can be obtained from: Mr. R. Sundaracharlu, 18 Narasimha Puram, Mylapore, Madras 600004, India Tel. 011-91-44-493-6133. >?From P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk 04 95 Jul EDT 10:33:00 Date: 04 Jul 95 10:33:00 EDT From: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk Subject: Font Encoding Reply-To: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A recent survey of educational institutions in the UK on how they dealt with diacritical marks found that there were, and this is no surprise, no common standards in use. One place even replied that they avoided buying materials not in English to avoid the problem. People who work with South Asian texts do not have that option! What is the situation with regards to members of the Indology list? Do you use CS and/or CSX encoding? Do you use unicode? Do you use HACC encoding? What is the encoding you use? I think that although we can endlessly feed our texts through filters in order to let others read them it would be better if some common standards were adopted. But, without knowing what people actually use how can we even do this? If there are already well known surveys of encoding usage please tell me where they are. But if, as I suspect, there are not then should not one be compiled? Peter Friedlander From kalyans at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 4 13:58:43 1995 From: kalyans at ix.netcom.com (kalyans at ix.netcom.com) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 95 06:58:43 -0700 Subject: Learning sanskrit Message-ID: <161227019894.23782.13060454525410343942.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Enrica Garzilli; Re: the price of the material. 1. Correspondence course, Bangalore: Fees; Rupees 100 (one hundred only) for each part plus postal charges. Audio cassettes are also available at a reasonable price. 2. The cost of the album of cassettes from Mr. R. Sundaracharlu, Madras is approximately Rupees 1,500 (one thousand five hundred only; I assume that the postal charges will be extra). Mr. Sundaracharlu and his wife have devoted quite a bit of time in the preparation, which has received a very good review from Sanskrit scholars in Madras. Best wishes. Dr. Kalyanaraman. PS. 1 USD = 31.3 Indian rupees. From garzilli at shore.net Tue Jul 4 12:50:21 1995 From: garzilli at shore.net (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 95 08:50:21 -0400 Subject: Learning sanskrit Message-ID: <161227019892.23782.11941572603455767634.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Tue, 4 Jul 1995, Srinivasan Kalyanaraman wrote: > You may like to pass on the following information for > those interested in learning sanskrit: > > FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN LEARNING SANSKRIT > > The following two organizations offer correspondence/ > audio cassette-based courses: ........ Do you know the price (in DOLLARS) of this material? Thanks eg From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca Tue Jul 4 17:55:35 1995 From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 95 10:55:35 -0700 Subject: Sanskrit learning Message-ID: <161227019897.23782.10099577533367290573.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Since Mr. Srinivasan Kalyanaraman has drawn attention to materials which can be used for learning Sanskrit at home, I should mention that my _Sanskrit : an Easy Introduction to an Enchanting Language_ is also designed in such a way as to enable one to study Sanskrit on one's own (but it does not constitute a correspondence course or preclude use as a classroom textbook). The basic information about SEL is as follows: Three printed volumes (total 674 pp.) plus five ninety-minute audio cassettes. First print 1992. Reprint 1994. Available from: Svadhyaya Publications,5346 Opal Place, Richmond, B.C., Canada V7C 5B4. Tel. 604-274-5353. Price of the entire set including surface mailing cost: Canadian $70.00 in Canada and US$70.00 outside Canada. Ashok Aklujkar, Professor, Department of Asian Studies, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. From kalyans at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 4 19:10:58 1995 From: kalyans at ix.netcom.com (kalyans at ix.netcom.com) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 95 12:10:58 -0700 Subject: Nastaliq script Message-ID: <161227019899.23782.8764561611571900934.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Contact Scanrom Publications, NY; Tel. 1-800-269-2237 Fax. 1-516-295-2240; 73760.1005 at compuserve.com They have recently brought out a CD-ROM with 1500+ fonts (truetype and postscript) for windows for ALL SOUTH ASIAN LANGUAGES including many typestyles and typefaces for URDU. The fonts use ANSI standard; Alt+ numeral key entry method with NumLock on since 32 to 255 ANSI numbers corresponding to the Urdu script glyphs can be accessed from the keyboard. You may have to modify your wp/dtp with macros provided by wp/dtp software to move cursor from right to left. Dr. S. Kalyanaraman From kalyans at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 4 22:41:53 1995 From: kalyans at ix.netcom.com (kalyans at ix.netcom.com) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 95 15:41:53 -0700 Subject: Meaning of 'siddham' Message-ID: <161227019902.23782.2821191446406313413.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> siddham This ancient word has many meanings in south asian languages, evidenced in many epigraphs. I shall be grateful for information from scholars on cognate words in South Asian and other languages and their guidance on the possible ancient or early 'meanings' assigned to this word. What does siddha-mAtrkA 'mean' when such a name is assigned to an ancient script which originated from brAhmI and spread to Cambodia and Thailand? SUCCESS OR READINESS pra-siddham = famous; What is the etymology for this word? ?Perhaps from siddham = success? e.g. siddhi-r-astu = let there be success. siddham also connotes 'readiness' when for e.g. the armored guard of a king says, 'siddham' or 'I am ready (to carry out your orders)' e.g. saMsiddham in Sanskrit. PERFECTION siddhi = (attaining) perfection, e.g. siddha-pITha = yoga-pITha a holy place where an ascetic attained perfection (siddhi) by his austerities. PROPERTY RIGHTS siddhi = income (Tamil); sidd-Ayam = prob. agricultural income; a fixed assessment; siddha = income from land under cultivation; right of cultivating land, one of the eight kinds of rights of enjoying landed property; e.g. Urdhv-Adhah-siddhi-yutA = with income from the produce above and below the surface of the ground or together with income from horticulture and agriculture; antah-siddhika = privilege of the donee of rent-free land (privilege of the donee offering full power of adjudication in law-suits); siddha-sAdhya present income and the income that may accrue in future. SCRIPT siddha-mAtRkA = name of the Indian alphabet derived from late brAhmI script which is the source of many scripts of south asia; wrongly called kuTila. siddham is word that occurs at the beginning of inscriptions; is often denoted by a sign at the beginning of epigraphic inscriptions perhaps to ensure the success of the undertaking? Several symbols occur, sometimes the word is denoted by the script syllable for CHA. This symbolic representation is different from the symbol used for the praNava or syllable oM. SYMBOLS IN brAhmI SCRIPT The syllable 'cha' is a circle with a vertical line dissecting through the middle and protruding on top of the circle. The syllable 'tha' is a circle with a central dot. SYMBOLS IN TELUGU SCRIPT In Telugu, the dotted circle denotes 'Tha'; in general, a dot inserted connotes an aspirate, e.g. 'da' becomes 'dha' when a 'dot' is inserted in the 'leaf or kidney' symbol. From jjl1000 at cus.cam.ac.uk Tue Jul 4 14:52:18 1995 From: jjl1000 at cus.cam.ac.uk (Dr J.J. Lipner) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 95 15:52:18 +0100 Subject: Prof. Brough's address Message-ID: <161227019896.23782.12243990245952399868.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Mon, 26 Jun 1995, Miroslav Rozehnal wrote: > Dear co-netters! > Does anybody of you know the e-mail address of Prof. Brough? > (Or if there is none, his snail-mail address)? > Thank you very much! > Miroslav Rozehnal, Institu of Indology, Charles University Prague > rozehnal at praha1.ff.cuni.cz > >Dear member, If it is Professor John Brough of Cambridge University that you want, I am sorry to say that he passed away a number of years ago. Yours sincerely, Julius Lipner >?From P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk 04 95 Jul EDT 17:28:00 Date: 04 Jul 95 17:28:00 EDT From: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk Subject: Nastaliq script Reply-To: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Dear Members, Does anyone know of any ATM type 1 fonts for Nastaliq script? It is not hard to get fonts for Naskh script but I am looking for something to write Urdu in and wonder what resources there are available. Peter Friedlander From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jul 4 21:18:20 1995 From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (RAH) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 95 16:18:20 -0500 Subject: Font Encoding Message-ID: <161227019900.23782.14724553046129041715.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I'm interested in this problem, too. Off and on for quite a while I have been reencoding a Garamond in Type 1 format that I hope I will be able to allow to be freely distributed to all who might want to use it. I have been using the HACC encoding as my model, but not even it has everything I need. For example, for those of us who teach Hindi and use the primer of Snell and Weightman, amacrontilde and umacrontilde are necessary. When I have my encoding fully set up, I'll be happy to send it to this list or, perhaps better, to interested individuals for comment and criticism. This has been a lot of work, and I hope it won't be for naught. Basically, my message is this: yes, I don't see why we shouldn't be able to agree on one encoding for transliterated Indic, whether or not we agree on the same transliteration scheme for all the languages. Bob Hueckstedt Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada email: hueckst at cc.umanitoba.ca fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797 From fp7 at columbia.edu Tue Jul 4 23:39:53 1995 From: fp7 at columbia.edu (Frances Pritchett) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 95 19:39:53 -0400 Subject: Urdu and other script fonts Message-ID: <161227019903.23782.4802258383105785280.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Tue, 4 Jul 1995 P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk wrote: > Dear Members, > Does anyone know of any ATM type 1 fonts for Nastaliq script? It is not hard > to get fonts for Naskh script but I am looking for something to write Urdu > in and wonder what resources there are available. > Peter Friedlander > I take this opportunity to forward the FONTS list from the South Asia Gopher maintained here at Columbia, and to solicit further comments and feedback from everyone who uses the list, so it can be kept up to date. Regards, Fran Pritchett = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I N V E N T O R Y O F L A N G U A G E M A T E R I A L S = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = An electronic publication project General editor: Frances Pritchett Publishing supervisor: David Magier Hard copy publisher: Southern Asian Institute, Columbia University Year of publication: annual, with frequent updates May be copied or distributed without permission. Comments and suggestions are welcomed by the editor. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = C O M P U T E R S C R I P T F O N T S Editor for Fonts: Frances Pritchett, Columbia University For general information about ILM, see: INTRODUCTION TO ILM IMPORTANT NOTE: The editor has not tried out these fonts and does not vouch for any of their claims. This information has been compiled as a public service only. --Last updated: May 1995-- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = AUTHOR: Aklujkar, Prof. Ashok , Department of Asian Studies, Univ. of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. Phone 604-822-5185 or 604-274-5353. Fax 604- 822-8937. LANGUAGE: Sanskrit, Hindi, Marathi: "Avanti," "Kashi" PRICE: $40. ("I contribute the net proceeds to a student assistance fund.") OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac. COMMENT: "Avanti was made by me in 1985 (slightly improved in 1988) for dot-matrix printers; it is a considerably improved version of what George Hart (Univ. of California, Berkeley) had accomplished. A logical assignment of Nagari letters to the Roman keyboard, one that speeds up typing and learning, is my other main contribution. That the font prints well even on laser printers is something that still surprises me. It is, for example, the type used for Devanagari text matter in my book *Sanskrit: an Easy Introduction to an Enchanting Language*. The diskette also includes the Roman fonts "Ganga" and "Sindhu" which can be used for transliteration of most literary languages of South Asia" (--Author). ___ AUTHOR: Bryant, Dr. Kenneth E. , Department of Asian Studies, 1871 West Mall, Univ. of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1W5. Phone 604-822-5185 or 604- 274-5353. Fax 604-822-8937. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Sanskrit: "Jaisalmer" for Devanagari, "Taj" for Roman transliteration PRICE: $100 OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac: Postscript Type 1, Truetype. Windows versions available soon. COMMENT: "The two fonts, sold as a package, come in Regular, Bold, Italic, and Bold-Italic. Included in the package are keyboard layout files for the system folder, which extensively redefine the system of dead keys. This is particularly important for Jaisalmer; it includes a very large number of conjuncts for Sanskrit which can only be accessed through dead key combinations. Extensive documentation" (--Author). ___ AUTHOR: C-DAC, Center for Development of Advanced Computing, Pune, India. LANGUAGE: Assamese, Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Kashmiri, Malayalam, Marathi, Nepali, Oriya, Punjabi, Sanskrit, Sinhala, Sindhi, Tamil, Telugu, Urdu, etc. CONTACT: Mohan Tambe , CDAC, Pune University Campus, Ganeshkhind, Pune, India 411 007. Phone 212-33-2461, 33-2483, 33-2479. Fax 212-33-7551. PRICE: All the available fonts in any single script, Rs. 12,000. Any two languages, Rs. 24,000. All Indian scripts, Rs. 38,000. OPERATING SYSTEM: SCO-XENIX, or any IBM PC compatible running a Unix variant. COMMENT: A strikingly fine set of TrueType fonts for all the Indian languages. (This is the same group responsible for the GIST card, a board for creating a multilingual machine from several different types of computers.) Characters are encoded using the Government of India standard, ISCII. INFORMATION: James Nye , 312-702-8430 ___ AUTHOR: Chopde, Avinash LANGUAGE: "ITRANS": Bengali, Hindi, Marathi, Sanskrit, Tamil, Telugu, etc. PRICE: Free ACCESS: Available by anonymous FTP as itrans32 and supporting files, from the following repositories (among others): cs.duke.edu: /dist/sources/ oak.oakland.edu: /pub/msdos/tex/ OPERATING SYSTEM: TeX on Unix/DOS COMMENT: .zip for DOS, .tar.Z for Unix. A set of programs for producing Indian script output from transliterated input; optionally integrates with TeX; a formatter is included that outputs PostScript directly. CS encoding will soon be added as a supported input coding scheme. ___ AUTHOR: Courtney, David LANGUAGE: Hindi, Sanskrit PRICE: $25 ACCESS: Available as a shareware package on the networks. OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac, but adaptible for Windows. COMMENT: "A Truetype font. The package contains extensive documentation and a large number of conjunct forms and a few dingbats; also a bit-mapped version. It has a very large set, so many of the characters are only availible through deadkey combinations. The real strength of the script is its orientation towords DTP applications that revolve around traditional Hindustani musical notation" (--Author). ___ AUTHOR: De, Dr. Prasun K. LANGUAGES: Sanskrit: "Devnagari"; Bengali: "Bangalekhon"; transliteration: "Vedalipi" PRICE: $100 per font; $65 for students working with South Asian languages (further need-based concession possible); proceeds are donated to non-profit spiritual organizations. OPERATING SYSTEM: Macintosh; Windows 3.1 and above COMMENT: These are TrueType and Postscript scalable laser fonts that work with any Macintosh or Windows application in all available styles. "The fonts are very pleasing (artistic) in printed form. The keyboard is mapped using a scheme that makes for ease and facility of operation and learning" (-- Debashish Banerji). INFORMATION: Debashish Banerji . Phone 818-362-6313. ___ AUTHOR: Deshpande, Dr. Madhav , Department of Asian Languages and Cultures, 3070 Frieze Building, Univ. of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109. Phone 313-747-2159. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Marathi, Sanskrit PRICE: Each font $100, all three $250 OPERATING SYSTEM: Postscript and truetype versions of Nagari and Roman diacritics fonts for Macintosh. The Nagari "Madhushree" font works for Sanskrit, Hindi, Marathi. "Mandakini" works for Sanskrit and Hindi, and can do all the dotted letters used to transcribe Urdu sounds. The Roman diacritics font, "Manjushree-CSX," follows the CSX coding, but has a lot more diacritics. COMMENT: "The print quality of the Devanagari fonts approximates the typography of Nirnayasagara press. The Manjushree-CSX font looks like Times-Roman. All three fonts are of the best publishing quality if used with a high resolution laser printer" (--Author). ___ AUTHOR: Ecological Linguistics , PO Box 15156, Washington DC 20003. Phone 202-547-7678. LANGUAGE: Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Malayalam, Punjabi, Sinhalese, Tamil, Telugu, Tibetan, etc.; also Kharoshti, Brahmi, Harappan symbols PRICE: $70 per font OPERATING SYSTEM: Mostly Mac (best on system 7 or later); both Postscript and TrueType (for Windows 3.1 or later) outline font formats scalable to any size. COMMENT: "We specialize in complex alphabets and, for Macintosh, super-efficient software-selectable keyboards, and were rated 'best foreign language fonts' by one of the two largest Macintosh users groups for two years running. Used by major academic institutions for publishing" (--Author.) ___ AUTHOR: Flyn, Christopher J. . LANGUAGE: Tibetan MAINTAINER: Dr. T. Matthew Ciolek , ANU Social Sciences Information Systems Administrator, Coombs Computing Unit, Research School of Social Sciences, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 0200, Australia. PRICE: Free ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: coombs.anu.edu.au: coombspapers/otherarchives /asian-studies-archives/tibetan-archives /tibet-software OPERATING SYSTEM: The "TibKey" software is a Tibetan keyboard emulator program for Windows 3.1x and Tibetan `Modern' TrueType font. Documentation (a total of 14 files, 390Kb) is included. ___ AUTHOR: Govindaraj, Dr. LANGUAGE: Tamil PRICE: Free ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: mac.archive.umich.edu: /mac/system.extensions/font /type1/palladam2.1.sit.hqx wuarchive.wustl.edu: /systems/mac/umich.edu /system.extensions/font/type1 /palladam2.1.sit.hqx OPERATING SYSTEM: Macintosh ___ AUTHOR: Goyal, Ashok , Vaishnav Books Ltd. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Gujarati, Sanskrit MAINTAINER: Digitron Computers, Toronto, Canada. Phone 905-454-3620. Also: Digitron, 3 Smithers Cr, Brampton, Ontario Canada L6Y 3L3. PRICE: $199 OPERATING SYSTEM: Windows ___ AUTHOR: Hart, Prof. George. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Tamil PRICE: Free; these fonts are now entirely in the public domain. ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: mac.archive.umich.edu: /mac/system.extensions/font /type3/indianfonts.sit.hqx wuarchive.wustl.edu: /systems/mac/umich.edu /system.extensions/font/type3 /indianfonts.sit.hqx OPERATING SYSTEM: Macintosh INFORMATION: Ravinder Bhumbla ___ AUTHOR: Hellingman, Jeroen LANGUAGE: Malayalam PRICE: Free OPERATING SYSTEM: TeX/Metafont ___ AUTHOR: Humanities and Arts Computing Center. LANGUAGE: Tamil MAINTAINER: Humanities and Arts Computing Center, Univ. of Washington. Email: PRICE: Free ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: ymir.claremont.edu: [TEX.BABEL.Tamil]*.* OPERATING SYSTEM: itrans (source in this post) or C + TeX with included preprocessor ___ AUTHOR: Inaam Alvi Computers. LANGUAGE: Bengali, Gujarati, Gurmukhi, Hindi, Urdu MAINTAINER: Artistic Computers, 601 8th Ave., 2nd floor, New York, NY 10018. Phone 212-279-7010; 212-643-2199. Fax: 212-714-2221. OPERATING SYSTEM: Runs on PCs in DOS. COMMENT: Expensive but elegant; individuals can buy stripped-down versions of fonts actually designed for newspaper use. Good technical support. ___ AUTHOR: InPros (Intellectual Property Solutions) , Box 57-2141, Houston, TX 77257-2141; phone 713-465-2967 (fax, voice mail, and fax-on-demand). LANGUAGE: Hindi: "SheelRekha," "RoopLekha," "Kamal," etc.; Gujarati: "Shefali," "Nita," "Anarkali," "Agni," etc.; Bengali: "Jayanti," "BornaMala," etc.; Punjabi: "Pushpa," "Suman," "Badal," "Arup"; Sanskrit: "Sansipro"; Transliteration: "Diplomat," "MonoPali" PRICE: $20+ for a set of three basic fonts OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac or MS-Windows. COMMENT: Fonts are said to be high-quality and inexpensive. Unencoded sample available by contacting . Other languages and fonts are continuously being added. "It is our intention to create a data base of files that can be printed in Hindi and other languages" (--Authors). ___ AUTHOR: ITR (Indian Typographical Research) Graphic Systems Pvt. Ltd. Mailing address: Hari-Vitthal Chambers, 64 Budhwar Peth, Ganapati Chowk, Laxmi Road, Pune 411 030, India. For inquiries in person: Above Shakti Sports, opposite Badshahi Restaurant, Tilak Rd., Pune. LANGUAGE: Sanskrit, Hindi OPERATING SYSTEM: IBM, Mac. COMMENT: "Mukund Gokhale, Art Director of ITR, showed me truly varied and beautiful fonts for several Indian scripts, sold in customized packages with keyboard arrangements of the buyer's choice. These are expensive but professional in quality. Some idea of the fonts smorgasbord can be had from the following names: Natraj, Yogesh, Shridhar, Chandan, Rambo, Mouj, Mogra, Radhika, Roma, Shweta, Amber, Kalidas, Manik, Rudra, Cakra, Javahar, Tulsi, Gandhari, Seeta, Stone, Mudra, Thunder, Fancy...and Hari, which I saw in December 1994 and which was one of the most simple and beautiful Nagari fonts I have so far seen" (--Ashok Aklujkar ). ___ AUTHOR: Kalyanasundaram, Dr. K. , Institute of Physical Chemistry, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, CH- 1015 Lausanne, Switzerland. Phone: 41-21-693 3622. Fax: 41-21-693 4111. LANGUAGE: Tamil OPERATING SYSTEM: Macintosh (Postscript1), Windows (Truetype) PRICE: Free ACCESS: "Please send a request to the author via email, stating the operating system to be used and the form for emailing (unencoded or binary)" (--Author). ___ AUTHOR: Kumar, Ashwini . LANGUAGE: Hindi, Malayalam, Tamil, Telugu, etc. MAINTAINER: H&M Enterprises, 8304 N.W. 113 Terrace, Oklahoma City, OK 73162. Phone 405-728-0634 (voice & fax). OPERATING SYSTEM: PC/XT,AT COMMENT: Bilingual word processor for IBM PC/XT and AT as well as clones. ___ AUTHOR: Kushwaha, Ramesh , Medcom, 3757 Helen Ave., Ypsilanti, MI 48197. Phone 313-434-1970. LANGUAGE: Hindi: "Vernmala" PRICE: $25 OPERATING SYSTEM: Outline, scaleable, True Type Font that can be used on any software supported under Microsoft Windows 3.1 or any Macintosh system. Postscript Type 1, Type 3, Encapsulated Postscript or Bitmapped fonts can also be generated. ___ AUTHOR: Lagally, Prof. Klaus, , Institut fuer Informatik, Zeige mir deine Uhr, Breitwiesenstrasse 20-22, 70565 Stuttgart, Germany. Phone +49-711-7816392. Fax +49-711-7816370. LANGUAGE: Urdu (also Arabic (fully vowelized), Persian, Pashto, Ottoman) PRICE: Free ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de: /pub/TeX/arabtex /arabtex.%*,faq% sunsite.unc.edu: /pub/packages/TeX/language/arabtex OPERATING SYSTEM: LaTeX, macro package plus METAFONT sources COMMENT: Uses Arabic-style Naskh fonts; Persian-style Nastaliq fonts under development. Limited support for Biblical Hebrew (vowelized), Ugaritic Cuneiform (inquire). ___ AUTHOR: Linguist's Software, Box 580, Edmonds, WA 98020-0580. Phone 206-775-1130. Fax 206-771-5911. LANGUAGE: Gujarati, Hindi, Punjabi, Sanskrit PRICE: $99.95 each OPERATING SYSTEM: Windows. ___ AUTHOR: Linotype-Hell, Bath Road, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England GL53 7LR. Phone 024-222-2333. LANGUAGE: Bengali, Gujarati, Malayalam, Tamil PRICE: substantial OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac, MS-DOS, etc. ___ AUTHOR: Monotype Typography Ltd., Perrywood Business Park, Salfords, Redhill, Surrey RH1 5JP, England. Phone 44-0737-76-5959. Fax 0737-76-9243, 0737-76-0942. Contact: Ian Bezer or Julie Collier-Smith. LANGUAGE: Bengali, Gujarati, Gurmukhi, Hindi, Kannada, Malayalam, Oriya, Pushto, Sinhala, Tamil, Telugu, Urdu OPERATING SYSTEM: "Monotype seems to have packages which provide the required font together with Mac or MS Windows keyboard drivers, etc. I was quoted 238 pounds for a Devanagari font with keyboard driver for Windows. You can also buy larger collections of characters, spread over several fonts, which have a greater variety of special sorts (pre-made conjuncts, etc.), but then you have to sort out the composition issues yourself. Prices still reasonable." (--Dominik Wujastyk) COMMENT: "These fonts are *really* good. This is what has been used for major publishing (including newspapers) all over Asia since the twenties." (--Dominik Wujastyk) ___ AUTHOR: Mukkavilli, Lakshmankumar and Lakshmi , 915 Almaden Avenue, Sunnyvale, CA 94086. LANGUAGE: Telugu ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: blackbox.hacc.washington.edu: /pub/tex/telugu (temporary) OPERATING SYSTEM: Metafont and TeX ___ AUTHOR: Multi-Lingual Scholar, Gamma Productions, Ind., 710 Wilshire Blve, Suite 609, Santa Monica, CA 90401. Phone 213-394-8622. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Urdu, etc. OPERATING SYSTEM: IBM COMMENT: This company aspires to cover an enormous number of languages worldwide, including South Asian language fonts. ___ AUTHOR: Patel, Vijay K. . Phone 817-292-6412. LANGUAGE: Gujarati, Hindi, Sanskrit, Tamil PRICE: $24.95 plus $2.00 S/H. OPERATING SYSTEM: PC and Macintosh. COMMENT: "These fonts are TrueType Scaleable fonts; they will work with Windows and require any Windows wordprocessor. For Macintosh, they require System 7.0 and work with any Macintosh software" (--Author.) ___ AUTHOR: Patil, Shrikrishna , 21647 Rainbow Drive, Cupertino, CA 95014-4826. Phone: 408-446-9144. Fax: 408- 255-6443. LANGUAGE: Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Malayalam, Marathi, Punjabi, Sanskrit, Tamil, Telugu, Utkal PRICE: $73 for initial package, single fonts around $40 OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac System 7.x or MS-Windows 3.x PostScript Type 1 or TrueType. COMMENT: "Many Marathi publications in the US and Canada use these Devanagari fonts; the Telugu and other language fonts too are used by various South Asian Studies departments in and around the Bay Area (California)" (--Avinash Chopde). "The software developed by Mr. Srikrishna Patil and the Indian Language Keyboard program developed by Mr. Avinash Chopde are nearly perfect. At least, I can say this for Kannada, perhaps one of the most difficult languages to set on a keyboard" (-- Tonse.NK.Raju ). ___ AUTHOR: Rahman, Anisur, 722 N. 13th Street #505, Milwaukee, WI 53233. Phone 414-223-3152. LANGUAGE: Bengali PRICE: $0, copyrighted ACCESS: use archie, sgaon.zip Sonar Gaon OPERATING SYSTEM: Windows 3.0 ___ AUTHOR: ScanRom Publications <73760,1005 at compuserve.com>, , P.O. BOX 72, Cedarhurst, N.Y. 11516. Phone: 516-295-2237. Fax: 516-295-2240. Toll free in the U.S. only: 1-800-269-2237. Contact: Arthur Carp . LANGUAGE: Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Malayalam, Oriya, Punjabi, Sinhala, Tamil, Telugu, Urdu OPERATING SYSTEM: The "Bharat Lipi SmartType Fonts" are ready for use in a wide range of computer applications that support ANSI standard TrueType fonts for Windows or PostScript Type 1 fonts for Windows. The fonts work with both PostScript and non- PostScript printers and any type of printer supported under Windows. The fonts offer unrestricted portability and total freedom for use across platforms and applications. PRICE: The price of the 1,516 type fonts on a CD-ROM disk with full written instructions is only $125 plus $5 for shipping and handling. Until May 1, 1995, the price will be $100 plus $5 for shipping and handling. Visa and Mastercard are accepted. COMMENT: "The keyboard layouts for these fonts follow the ISCII (Indian Script Code for Information Exchange) standard. 1,516 fonts are included in the package: 758 TrueType fonts and 758 PostScript Type 1 fonts, which support the computing and writing systems for over 25 languages of South Asia" (-- Author). "I have, after careful checking, found more unsurmountable problems. It has problems with individual fonts, keyboard mapping to the most familiar IBM/Qwerty standard format, lack of support and pertinent documentation vis-a-vis hardware compatibility, unprofessional designing of some of the individual fonts. I have downgraded my earlier product grade to C-" (--Sid Harth ). "Also, the fonts have the vowel diacritics written together with the consonants, which makes it a real doozie to type, unless one sets up an extended and complicated series of macros. Another problem is that the coding for the font titles is not really spelled out...all come up as Truetype on the icon, but sometimes come up PostScript in reality. It is much easier to use the Ecolinguistics fonts, though they are much more costly. On the other hand, these include TrueType Tamil, which I haven't found elsewhere, and Malayalam. They are also very nice in appearance...at least the ones that I accessed" (--Jim Gair ). ___ AUTHOR: Scharf, Peter M. . Dept. of Classics, Brown Univ., PO Box 1856, Providence, RI 02912. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Sanskrit OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac; bit-map screen font, transliteration system COMMENT: Designed for easy typing of all-ASCII character sets; can be adapted for inputting to other fonts ___ AUTHOR: Singh, Jasbir , Maboli Systems, Inc., P.O. Box 3629, Wise, VA 24293. LANGUAGE: Punjabi: "AnandpurSahib Lippi," "Jhelum Lippi" PRICE: $35 for Regular Version, $100 for Professional Version OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac, Windows COMMENT: Price includes one TrueType font, manuals and templates, postage. Professional package has both fonts, extras, two Punjabi games. Both versions can be used with *all* software. ___ AUTHOR: Softech Creations. LANGUAGE: Tamil. TITLE: Tamil Kalvi Software. PRICE: $15 if purchased together with instructional software. SOURCE: Softech Creations, 2910 Brightwater Lane, Abingdon, MD 21009. Contacts: P. Kuppusamy , phone 410-515-3611; R. Kabaliswaran, phone 908-940-0586. OPERATING SYSTEM: PostScript (TrueType) Windows/Macintosh. COMMENT: The font uses traditional Tamil typewriter keyboard layout. Keyboard templates are provided. ___ AUTHOR: Srinivasan, Dr. K. LANGUAGE: Tamil PRICE: $40 (shareware), $0 for non-profit use ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: oak.oakland.edu: /pub/msdos/editor/adami91.zip wuarchive.wustl.edu: /mirrors/msdos/editor/adami91.zip nic.switch.ch: /mirrors/msdos/editor/adami91.zip OPERATING SYSTEM: DOS; Windows COMMENT: Stand-alone word processor. ___ AUTHOR: Thadani, Rahul Bhagwan LANGUAGE: Gujarati, Hindi, Marathi ACCESS: Contact author at 19 Laval Drive, Winnipeg R3T 2X8, Canada; or phone 204-275-1598. Also . OPERATING SYSTEM: Windows; Mac COMMENT: "I have developed 5 Hindi (Sanskrit, Marathi) and 2 Gujarati TrueType fonts that can be easily installed and used with any Windows or Mac word processor, without any additional hardware or software" (--Author). ___ AUTHOR: Velthuis, Frans J. , Nyensteinheerd 267 9736 TV, Groningen, The Netherlands. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Marathi, Nepali, Sanskrit, etc. (Devanagari font) PRICE: $0 ACCESS: Available by anonymous FTP as `devnag' and supporting files from: ftp.tex.ac.uk: /ctan/tex-archive/language/devanagari nic.switch.ch: /mirror/tex/language/devanagari ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au: /pub/tex/ctan/language/devanagari ftp.ibp.fr: /pub/TeX/CTAN/language/devanagari ftp.shsu.edu: /tex-archive/language/devanagari labrea.stanford.edu: /pub/tex/incoming OPERATING SYSTEM: TeX, C, METAFONT source ___ AUTHOR: Vishnu, Meenan . LANGUAGE: "All Indian languages" MAINTAINER: Ethno Multimedia, Toronto, Canada. OPERATING SYSTEM: Macintosh; Windows COMMENT: "The fonts are ok, but there is no keyboard--you have to devise your own. And there is no allowance for the conjunctions and triple conjuctions so common in South Indian languages like Kannada. The people are nice; but the price (around $90) is too much, and the effort is not worth it" (-- Tonse.NK.Raju ) ___ LANGUAGE: Urdu MAINTAINER: Amir Aslam (?) ACCESS: Call 1-800-308-8883 for information, free catalogue ___ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = + From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed Jul 5 20:10:52 1995 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 95 16:10:52 -0400 Subject: Mahabharata shloka Message-ID: <161227019905.23782.3078686140470284691.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Thu, 25 May 1995, . wrote: > Dear Indologists, > > I would like to ask a grammar question about > a shloka from the Mahabharata. > > satyasya vacana.m "sreya.h satyAdapi hita.m vadet | > yadbhUtahitamatya.mtametatsatya.m mata.m mama || > > In the second paada, satya appears in the ablative case. > Does this mean that "one should speak what is beneficial > *from* the set of things that are true" or is the ablative > for comparison as in "one should speak what is beneficial > rather *than* what is true"? > > Thank you for any help you can provide. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > Gary R. Thrapp > thrapp at nosc.mil > > The phrase "satyaad api hitam vadet" means: "one should rather speeak something that is beneficial, rather than something that is true." The second part of the verse then says: "That which is beneficial is the really true ..." Madhav Deshpande From CXEV at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA Wed Jul 5 20:40:11 1995 From: CXEV at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (Richard Hayes) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 95 16:40:11 -0400 Subject: A challenge for experts in Tibet grammar Message-ID: <161227019906.23782.5941098049849255249.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This message is directed to all you professional and amateur translators of Tibetan texts. During the past couple of weeks I have been engaged in a protracted discussion with another scholar about the meaning of a passage from a Tibetan text. After considerable discussion, we have come to an impasse; neither of us can convince the other of how the sentence is to be interpreted. We have very different grammatical analyses of the sentence, and therefore very different translations. What we agreed to do is to float the sentence among the learned readers of BUDDHA-L to see whether anyone can offer a grammatical analysis, a translation and a brief interpretation of the passage. (The most important of these three ingredients is the grammatical analysis, with the translation being second in importance.) Eventually, I shall offer my own analysis and translation, and my esteemed colleague will present his. But first we are interested in seeing whether anyone else would like to take a stab at this short sentence without being influenced by either of our attempts. We welcome input from anyone, although I suppose we would give more weight to experts in Tibetan who offer principled linguistic explanations than to people who base their analyses on astrological, necromantic, geomantic or oneirocritical considerations. Here is the sentence in question: phun po'i rgyun rgyu las dang nyon mongs pas gang zhig zag pas gang zag ces bya'o. 1. How would you analyse it grammatically? 2. How would you translate it? 3. What doctrinal point is being made? (If you prefer to send your essay to me personally rather than to everyone on buddha-l, please make your preference clear to me at the top of your message.) Whoever gives the best answer may be sent an ice-cream cone by e-mail, provided the technology for such a transfer exists by the time a winner is declared. Yours in unrestrainable anticipation, Richard P. Hayes Faculty of Religious Studies Associate, Dept of Philosophy McGill University Montreal, Quebec From vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu Wed Jul 5 21:02:10 1995 From: vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 95 17:02:10 -0400 Subject: Critical editions Message-ID: <161227019908.23782.4772290622354272560.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I took Professor Wujastik advice and decided to browse through M L West's little monograph on textual criticism. The examples were beyond me as I know no Latin or Greek. But one remark there caught my eye as it seems to jibe with a remark made by Professor Witzel, but is opposed to a remark of Professor Wujastik The remark of West I am referring to is on p.~43 amid discussion of editing `open recessions'. It goes like this: The critic will take note of the general appearance of the various witnesses first --- that this one is from a humanist copy liable to contain much emendation; that here is a major family that preserves its identity from the twelfth century into the fifteenth, and so on. I presume that Professor Witzel was expressing a similar sentiment when he indicated the need to consult the oral tradition of Vedic texts (and calling the oral version of .Rksa.mhita a `tape recording' circa 10th century BCE. The reference to `strong tradition' needs some elaboration. West does not indicate what he means by it. Let me state what I think it should mean: The tradition should be conservative in the sense that it >actively< resists change; it should be unbroken in the sense that apprenticeship of the younger person(s) should overlap significantly with the mature period of the previous generation(s) in the same tradition; the tradition should be alive at the time of transcription (or manuscript copying). Now let me turn Professor Wujastik's remark about how we know that manuscripts of Sankara's work from S.r"ngeri Mu.t (or one of the other major Mu.ts) are any better than a random manuscript. I am not sure that the description as a `strong tradition' does not apply here. There is another thought that crossed my mind. I know that this will be offensive to some (but no more offensive than off-hand statements to the effect that major mu.ts are not heirs to a strong tradition). But this must be said so that the possibility is actively guarded against. Let us assume that I am just starting on a career and decide to critically edit Sa"nkara's bhaa.sya on the Gitaa. If the result does not have any material disagreement with the `vulgate' (by which I mean the manuscripts of the major mu.t), there would be likely murmurs about wasted time. This presents a strong temptation to come up with a surprising conclusion. As there are unlikely to be >two< attempts at critical editions, the originally surprising conclusion might become the academic orthodoxy. This is not meant as flame bait, but I think that these points merit some discussion. Nath Rao (natharao+ at osu.edu) 614-366-9341 From vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu Wed Jul 5 21:02:49 1995 From: vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 95 17:02:49 -0400 Subject: Critical editions and .Rksa.mhita Message-ID: <161227019910.23782.17847062000774544472.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have a couple of questions concerning two points made about critical editions and the .Rksa.mhita. Firstly, there was the remark that there is no `critical edition' of the .Rksa.mhita. I remember reading somewhere (Gonda's book on Vedic literature?) that there are no variations among the manuscripts of the .Rksa.mhita. Can someone clarify this point? Second concerns Profesor Witzel's remark about the oral tradition of .Rgveda being a `tape recording' of the text circa 10th century BCE. Every discussion of the textual history of the sa.mhita and pada paa.thas assumes that the former took its present shape before "Saakalya and then "Saakalya created the latter. But this directly contradicts Paa.nini 6.1.127 which states that according to "Saakalya, the vowels i, ii u, uu .r, at the end of a word, are not replaced by a semi-vowel when a vowel follows, but only shortened. I do not remember the books of Staal or Howard about Vedic recitation saying anything about this either. Nath Rao (natharao+ at osu.edu) 614-366-9341 From pslvax!sadhu at UCSD.EDU Thu Jul 6 13:33:11 1995 From: pslvax!sadhu at UCSD.EDU (pslvax!sadhu at UCSD.EDU) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 03:33:11 -1000 Subject: gabbhaparihaara Message-ID: <161227019919.23782.12737002167674194742.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >My question is whether >there is in fact a formal gabbhaparihaara ceremony? If so, what is >the Hindu/Sanskrit equivalent? Any additional references to such a >ritual would be appreciated.> Namaste: I hope this will be of some help. The Hindu equivalent could be garbhadhana, "womb-placing". This is the rite of conception, where physical union is consecrated with the intent of bringing into physical birth an advanced soul. The numerous samskaras are outlined in the Grihya Sastras. Here is one reference from a modern source: "WHAT ARE THE CHILD-BEARING SACRAMENTS? Sloka 94 The essential child-bearing samskaras are the garbhadhana, rite of conception; the punsavana, third-month blessing; the sirmantonnaya, hair parting ceremony; and the jatakarma, welcoming the new-born child. Bhashya Conception, pregnancy's crucial stages and birth itself are all sanctified through sacred ceremonies performed privately by the husband. In the rite of conception, garbhadhana, physical union is consecrated through prayer, mantra and invocation with the conscious purpose of bringing a high soul into physical birth." There is more I omitted. This material is from pages 275, and 806, of "Dancing with Siva". pranams, sadhu From MCDERMOT at wehle.canisius.edu Thu Jul 6 12:06:40 1995 From: MCDERMOT at wehle.canisius.edu (James McDermott) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 08:06:40 -0400 Subject: gabbhaparihaara Message-ID: <161227019914.23782.12547787043437057965.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Can anyone provide assistance with the Pali term "gabbhaparihaara" (lit. "he protection of the embryo")? PED defines it as "a ceremony performed when a woman became pregnant." Other translators, sticking more closely to the literal meaning, use it in a more general sense to refer to what we today might call pre-natal care. PED further equates the term with "gabbhapariharana", which at Vism 500 in fact seems to me closer in meaning to "gestation". My question is whether there is in fact a formal gabbhaparihaara ceremony? If so, what is the Hindu/Sanskrit equivalent? Any additional references to such a ritual would be appreciated. [Note: I don't have access to Trenckner's Critical Pali Dictionary.] From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca Thu Jul 6 15:56:40 1995 From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 08:56:40 -0700 Subject: Lokesh Chandra address Message-ID: <161227019929.23782.6728502234488787747.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The one I have, which is several years old, is: Prof. Lokesh Chandra, International Academy of Indian Culture, J-22 Hauz Khas Enclave, New Delhi 110 016, India. From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Thu Jul 6 09:53:08 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 09:53:08 +0000 Subject: Critical editions Message-ID: <161227019912.23782.15596877302193473248.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Vidhyanath K. Rao said: > The remark of West I am referring to is on p.~43 amid discussion of > editing `open recessions'. It goes like this: > The critic will take note of the general appearance of the various > witnesses first --- that this one is from a humanist copy liable to > contain much emendation; that here is a major family that preserves > its identity from the twelfth century into the fifteenth, and so on. > > The reference to `strong tradition' needs some elaboration. West does not > indicate what he means by it. Let me state what I think it should mean: > The tradition should be conservative in the sense that it >actively< > resists change; it should be unbroken in the sense that apprenticeship > of the younger person(s) should overlap significantly with the mature > period of the previous generation(s) in the same tradition; the tradition > should be alive at the time of transcription (or manuscript copying). On the same page, 43, West does clarify what he means. He develops 5 steps for sorting the manuscripts. The important point to notice is that each step involves *looking at the readings* of the manuscripts, and weighing them against each other. West is not suggesting that we make judgements about which manuscripts to include as witnesses to a tradition on the basis of general considerations (such as that the MS is found in a particular ma.tha library). He says, for example, that we must "make a note of the reading or readings that seem to be ancient ... and the manuscripts in which they appear." And so forth. This assumes that we are already in possession of the manuscripts (or copies), and that we have actually read them (or representative parts of them). Only then are we able to decide which manuscripts we may ignore in our edition, and which ones we must adopt. I still think that West's guidelines here leave something to be desired, and could easily descend into circularity. Nevertheless, the main point -- that you have to look at the actual MS readings of each MS in order to know whether that MS is an important witness -- cannot be set aside. > Now let me turn Professor Wujastik's remark about how we know that manuscripts > of Sankara's work from S.r"ngeri Mu.t (or one of the other major Mu.ts) > are any better than a random manuscript. I am not sure that the > description as a `strong tradition' does not apply here. I have to say that I don't recall saying anything like the above; if I did, I recant! My point isn't and wasn't about Ma.tha libraries or "random" manuscripts, but about the impossibility of making judgements about the fidelity of textual traditions without actually looking at the manuscripts. The Mathas, Jaina bhandaras, and Indian religious foundations in general have often done a splendid job of preserving manuscripts, and all scholars are grateful for that. (It would be nice to have easier access, mind you. :-) So if you mean to take a swipe at me in your next paragraph, I think you must have misunderstood something I said earlier: > There is another thought that crossed my mind. I know that this will be > offensive to some (but no more offensive than off-hand statements to > the effect that major mu.ts are not heirs to a strong tradition) ... Regarding the general point about doing an edition, only to find that the edited text is identical to the vulgate, and one has wasted one's time, I don't know that it has ever happened, or ever will. But the result of the work would still be to separate knowledge from opinion. This is surely worthwhile. Dominik From srini at engin.umich.edu Thu Jul 6 15:33:15 1995 From: srini at engin.umich.edu (Srinivasan Pichumani) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 11:33:15 -0400 Subject: gabbhaparihaara Message-ID: <161227019928.23782.1047865126487846869.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >>PED further equates the term with "gabbhapariharana", >>which at Vism 500 in fact seems to me closer in meaning >>"gestation". My question is whether there is in fact >>a formal gabbhaparihaara ceremony? If so, what is >>the Hindu/Sanskrit equivalent? Any additional references >>to such a ritual would be appreciated. The very first in the list of Hindu sa.mskAras or rituals is "garbhAdAna" referring to gestation or conception... I saw one example of a mantra connected with this ritual in Frits Staal's paper in the book ---------------------------------------------------- Title: Understanding mantras / edited by Harvey P. Alper. Published: Albany, N.Y. : State University of New York Press, c1989. Series: SUNY series in religious studies LC # in our library: BL 1236.36 .U531 1989 ISBN: 0887065988 ------------------------------------------------- -Srini. From R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk Thu Jul 6 12:53:45 1995 From: R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk (R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 13:53:45 +0100 Subject: Critical editions Message-ID: <161227019917.23782.6044027028730476513.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hope it won't change the subject too much to ask a mundane question: I do critical editions and stemmas of Tibetan scriptures. Paul Harrison showed me how easy his task is made by using Nisus for Mac; but, alas, my institution insists we all use IBM PC's, so I need a software as good as Nisus but IBM compatible. Preferably, I should be able to run it on Windows, another institutional requirement. Any suggestions? Rob Mayer University of Kent at Canterbury From Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at Thu Jul 6 12:31:56 1995 From: Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at (Max.Nihom at oeaw.ac.at) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 14:31:56 +0200 Subject: Address Prof. Lokesh Chandra Message-ID: <161227019916.23782.9378815161948043448.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Could anyone help me to the snail mail address of Prof. Lokesh Chandra in New Delhi? Thank You. Max Nihom Vienna From magier at columbia.edu Thu Jul 6 20:03:33 1995 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 16:03:33 -0400 Subject: Rajasthan Studies List Message-ID: <161227019931.23782.608832164436293325.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> FYI. David Magier ----------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 15:06:06 -0400 From: haynese at acad.winthrop.edu Subject: Rajasthan Studies List Welcome to the RSG-L mailing list for Rajasthan Studies. Carol Henderson and myself have discussed this and feel that the time has come for the RSG(AAS) to make use of the new technology to advance the cause of the study of Rajasthan. We are not quite certain how this list can be used -- that is up to you -- but we feel it should exist. Please feel free to use it to exchange ideas, project schemes, announcements, bibliography finds, news, or whatever. If you decide to be a part of this list, please send the message: SUBSCRIBE RSG-L to LISTSERV at HAYNESE.WINTHROP.EDU and you should be added to the list automatically. Let me know if there are any problems in this regard. If you have friends not on the list, please let them know of its existence. Let me know if you have any problems. Ed Haynes, List ka Thakur haynese at haynese.winthrop.edu or haynese at acad.winthrop.edu From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Thu Jul 6 16:20:41 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 16:20:41 +0000 Subject: Font Encoding Message-ID: <161227019926.23782.12766727830563724855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Peter Friedlander raised the issue of font/charset encodings in Asian studies. 1/ There are the "code pages" supported by IBM and registered with the ISO. These are inadequate for Sanskrit etc. 2/ No official body has "legislated" for Indic languages in transliteration, as far as I know. 3/ The CSX encoding, for all its limitations, is the nearest thing that exists to a standard. Sorry to be laconic: in a terrific hurry. Dominik From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA Thu Jul 6 22:00:40 1995 From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (RAH) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 17:00:40 -0500 Subject: Font Encoding Message-ID: <161227019936.23782.6201654079625251298.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To All, I have just finished a rough draft of a font encoding that is an attempt to improve on the HACC encoding. If anyone would like to see it, please message me. I can send it in postscript form. Because of the complexity of the document, however, it is fairly large in bytes though not in pages. It comes to about 184 K. Basically, what I've tried to do is to use the EC encoding used by TeX in the 000-127 range, and the HACC encoding, slightly modified, in the 128-255 range. One little improvement I happen to like is in the retroflex-aspirate characters. I have made them distinct, individual characters so that the dot can be placed between them, instead of just under the initial d or t. (How 'bout that, 'eh? Enough for some form of immortality?(:-)) sevAyAm, Bob Hueckstedt Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada email: hueckst at cc.umanitoba.ca fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797 From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA Thu Jul 6 22:02:27 1995 From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (RAH) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 17:02:27 -0500 Subject: Indic languages (fwd) Message-ID: <161227019938.23782.9192482073055281656.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This message may be of interest to some of you. Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada email: hueckst at cc.umanitoba.ca fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 00:26:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Dana Stein To: hueckst at CC.UManitoba.CA Subject: Indic languages I have a question for you. Do you know anyone [or more than one person] who might be willing to translate about 6 lines of non-technical English into Indic languages? I have a book project which involves the translation of these lines into as many of the world's languages as we can obtain, and then also to get the native script and an audio rendition if possible. We are up close to 70 languages and are still looking for more. Can you suggest anyone? Thanks for your help. Rickey Stein steinda at umdnj.edu From mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk Thu Jul 6 21:40:52 1995 From: mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 22:40:52 +0100 Subject: gabbhaparihaara Message-ID: <161227019933.23782.7643956965190125811.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Can anyone provide assistance with the Pali term "gabbhaparihaara" >(lit. "he protection of the embryo")? PED defines it as "a ceremony >performed when a woman became pregnant." Other translators, sticking >more closely to the literal meaning, use it in a more general sense >to refer to what we today might call pre-natal care. PED further >equates the term with "gabbhapariharana", which at Vism 500 in fact >seems to me closer in meaning to "gestation". My question is whether >there is in fact a formal gabbhaparihaara ceremony? If so, what is >the Hindu/Sanskrit equivalent? Any additional references to such a >ritual would be appreciated. [Note: I don't have access to >Trenckner's Critical Pali Dictionary.] Checking the Mahidol CDROM, I find no canonical references, but 23 in the commentaries and 2 in the Vinaya-.tiikaa. In fact this is largely repetition of two or three stock passages. None of them give any detailed explanation, but it is clear that it is something that follows immediately after the husband, etc. is informed of the pregnancy. It is given by the husband (or in one case by the parents). It is dhammataa for a meritorious lady to get one and a result of bad kamma not to have one. I would have thought it is probably a ceremony to protect the embryo. It is certainly nothing to do with "gabbhapariharana"at Vism 500 which is discussing the suffering that occurs while 'carrying the embryo'. Let me know if you require some of the detailed refs and I will Email what I can to you. Lance Cousins MANCHESTER, UK Telephone (UK): 0161 434 3646 From kalyans at ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 7 13:02:51 1995 From: kalyans at ix.netcom.com (kalyans at ix.netcom.com) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 06:02:51 -0700 Subject: svastika symbol on Harappan seals Message-ID: <161227019944.23782.4752079457076106052.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Perhaps (?) the earliest occurrence of the svastika symbol is in the Harappan script inscriptions on seals and tablets. Both the right and left-handed versions of this symbol are used. On many seals, the symbol occupies the entire field and on some inscriptions, was used as a script sign, together with other pictorial motifs such as an elephant and a tiger, strolling and looking back. On one inscription, a string of svastika-s (alternating right- and left-handed versions) is used. It will be interesting to trace the meanings and significance assigned to this symbol in ancient times. I shall be thankful for references on this subject. Dr. S. Kalyanaraman kalyans at ix.netcom.com From kalyans at ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 7 15:51:31 1995 From: kalyans at ix.netcom.com (kalyans at ix.netcom.com) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 08:51:31 -0700 Subject: Critical editions Message-ID: <161227019948.23782.7699335880444136584.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> You wrote: > >For the record, (not that it matters to anyone) I think critical editions >of Brahmanas are essential, even if they turn to agree substanially with >the 19th century editions. > >Nath Rao (natharao+ at osu.edu) 614-366-9341 Let me cite from the introduction of Arthur Berriedale Keith to his 1909 edition of aitareya AraNyaka: "When, in June 1905, I commenced preparations for the production of an edition of aitareya AraNyaka, I was mainly influenced by the expectatio, raised in part by the reference in Prof. Buhler's Report (J. Bombay branch RAS, 1877, Extra No. p. 34) on his Kashmir journey to differences in the text of rAjendralAla mitra's edition. rAjendralAla used only two complete MSS. of the text, and three of sAyaNa's commentary, besides three other MSS. of parts of the text or commentary, and it seemed reasonable to suppose that the employment of additional MS. material would add to the correctness of the text. This expectation has not been justified. The use of additional MSS. enables me to correct a good many slips and one or two serious omissions in rAjendralAla's text, but it establishes the fact that the tradition as to the text seems unbroken. Variant readings occur here and there, but none of sufficient importance to justify the idea that any different recensions of the text ever existed, and it is hardly ever possible to feel serious doubt as to the correct reading..." Now, my inquiry is this: Is it not equally critical to analyze (or, perhaps, unravel) the rationale for the 'secrecy' that permeates the 'allegorical' texts of the brAhmaNas and AraNyakas? S. Kalyanaraman. From b9100530 at platinum.anu.edu.au Fri Jul 7 01:08:35 1995 From: b9100530 at platinum.anu.edu.au (b9100530 at platinum.anu.edu.au) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 11:08:35 +1000 Subject: Font Encoding Message-ID: <161227019940.23782.7669688538344804576.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A slight tangent on the subject: Is there such a thing as an official QWERTY-like keyboard for the devanagari script (at least for the first one hundred and twenty seven characters)? first one hundred and twenty seven characters Does the Indian govt. have a standard? Does the academic community have a standard? Adrian Burton. From vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu Fri Jul 7 15:14:53 1995 From: vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 11:14:53 -0400 Subject: Critical editions Message-ID: <161227019946.23782.5196378786310782908.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > I still think that West's guidelines here leave something to be desired, > and could easily descend into circularity. Nevertheless, the main point > -- that you have to look at the actual MS readings of each MS in order > to know whether that MS is an important witness -- cannot be set aside. I agree with what is being said, as long as we look at the readings purely from the point of view of language and possibily style based on those parts where most manuscripts agree. However, sometimes decisions about what reading to accept are based on the editor's conception of what the text contained ``originally''. (There is one example where the consideration was what the editor thought the work should say and the presumed relationship of the manuscripts to the work. The manuscript in question had been lost decades ago.) I would trust tradition more than such selections. > Regarding the general point about doing an edition, only to find that > the edited text is identical to the vulgate, and one has wasted one's > time, I don't know that it has ever happened, or ever will. But the > result of the work would still be to separate knowledge from opinion. > This is surely worthwhile. I agree with the last two sentences. But not the first. Keith, in his re-edition of Aitreya Aaranyaka, says flat out that no major changes from Mitra's edition were found. The re-edition of .Rgvidhaana in ``Vedic Tantrism'' does not seem be such a great improvement over Meyer's (?) edition. Good test cases will be "Satapatha and Aitreya Brahmanans. Surely these works deserve a critical edition based on all available manuscripts. Then we can compare them with Weber's and Aufrechet's editions. My comment was not that I consider such projects a waste of time, but what academic peer's might say to tenure and promotion committees. Perhaps Indologists are different in outlook from mathematicians, but I suspect Witzel was saying the same thing, but was more diplomatic. For the record, (not that it matters to anyone) I think critical editions of Brahmanas are essential, even if they turn to agree substanially with the 19th century editions. Nath Rao (natharao+ at osu.edu) 614-366-9341 From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov Fri Jul 7 18:09:43 1995 From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 13:09:43 -0500 Subject: Solar genealogy (Re: Dr. P. Claus' query) Message-ID: <161227019952.23782.12191145650798484941.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> July 7, 1995 These are references relating to Dr. Peter Claus's query on castes claiming descent from Sun, Moon etc., kulam, kUTTam, kiLai of Tamil castes ************************************ (Solar genealogy of a Chola king) Lot of material on tamil castes are be found in Edgar Thurston etc., Ancient sangam literature shows the beginning of today's caste system. George Hart, Early evidence of caste in South India in Paul Hockings (ed.), Dimensions of social life: Essays in honor of David G. Mandelbaum, Berlin, 1988 When castes grow in power, they claim descent from Moon, Sun etc., Colin Mackenzie manuscripts (late 18th century) of Land Lords/Zamindars show that trend. Four volumes were published in 1981 (Dept. of Archaeology, Madras.) Also see, George W. Spencer, Sons of the Sun: The Solar Genealogy of a Chola King, Asian Profile, vol. 10, no. 1, Feb. 1982, p. 81-95. The different kulams or kuuTTams of Kongu Vellalas are excellently described in Ti. Em. Kaliyappa, konku vellalar varalARu, 4th edition, 1992, Coimbatore, 174 p. Lots of info on Mudaliyars by M. Mines book, on tEvars from some papers by Anthony Good, on Kongu Vellalas by Brenda Beck's writings, etc., Karkattar/ Saiva Pillais' kiLais are described in the commentary to kArmaNTala catakam by cIrkAzi muttut tANTavarAya piLLai in 1923 etc., N. Subrahmanian, The brahmin in the tamil country, Madurai, 1989, 206 p. has good data on Iyers. nakarattAr/nATTukkOTTai cheTTiars are grouped according to the temple they go to (9 temples in Ramnad district like n^Emam, mAttuR, piLLaiyArpaTTi, iraNiyUr ..) Sincerely, n. ganesan nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov From tart at iastate.edu Fri Jul 7 18:26:47 1995 From: tart at iastate.edu (Gary M Tartakov) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 13:26:47 -0500 Subject: Solar genealogy (Re: Dr. P. Claus' query) Message-ID: <161227019954.23782.17952774358985346862.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> "When castes grow in power, they claim descent from Moon, Sun etc., Colin Mackenzie manuscripts (late 18th century) of Land Lords/Zamindars show that trend. Four volumes were published in 1981 (Dept. of Archaeology, Madras.)" What are these four volumes? More information, please. From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca Fri Jul 7 22:35:22 1995 From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 15:35:22 -0700 Subject: ACH and ALLC addresses Message-ID: <161227019957.23782.15176576779685251786.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In a recent conference announcement the bodies ACH (= Association for Computers in the Humanities) and (ALLC = Association for Literary and Linguistic Computing) were mentioned. Can anyone provide their postal or e-mail addresses? Thanks. -- ashok aklujkar From conlon at u.washington.edu Fri Jul 7 22:55:21 1995 From: conlon at u.washington.edu (Frank Conlon) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 15:55:21 -0700 Subject: ACH and ALLC addresses Message-ID: <161227019959.23782.3663064446311553962.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Ashok (and others) --here is a recent post from H-ASIA that may be of some help: I would suggest contacting Dahlin. Frank ----- H-ASIA July 2, 1995 Forthcoming Computers & Humanities Conference, U.C. Santa Barbara *********************************************************************** From: Eric Dahlin ACH/ALLC '95 July 11-15, 1995 Association for Computers and the Humanities Association for Literary and Linguistic Computing University of California, Santa Barbara ***************************************************************** If you've sent in your registration for this year's conference but haven't yet received a confirmation, please call or send a note to: Sally Vito Campus Conference Services University of California Santa Barbara, California 93106-6120 Phone: (805) 893-3072 Fax: (805) 893-7287 E-mail: hr03vito at ucsbvm.ucsb.edu She'll be able to make sure that your registration has been received and that everything is in order. Eric Dahlin Local Organizer ACH/ALLC '95 HCF1DAHL at ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu ================================================================= On Fri, 7 Jul 1995 aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca wrote: > In a recent conference announcement the bodies ACH (= Association for > Computers in the Humanities) and (ALLC = Association for Literary and > Linguistic Computing) were mentioned. Can anyone provide their postal or > e-mail addresses? Thanks. -- ashok aklujkar > > > From sjohar at library.usyd.edu.au Fri Jul 7 07:04:47 1995 From: sjohar at library.usyd.edu.au (sjohar at library.usyd.edu.au) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 17:04:47 +1000 Subject: Indic languages (fwd) Message-ID: <161227019942.23782.7370282512637793242.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Can translate your stuff into Hindi, marathi, bengali, tamil, punjabi, urdu, will try gujarathi and konkani. Sugandha >This message may be of interest to some of you. > >Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages >Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba >Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada email: hueckst at cc.umanitoba.ca >fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797 > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 00:26:57 -0400 (EDT) >From: Dana Stein >To: hueckst at CC.UManitoba.CA >Subject: Indic languages > > >I have a question for you. Do you know anyone [or more than one person] >who might be willing to translate about 6 lines of non-technical English >into Indic languages? > >I have a book project which involves the translation of these lines into >as many of the world's languages as we can obtain, and then also to get >the native script and an audio rendition if possible. We are up close to >70 languages and are still looking for more. > >Can you suggest anyone? Thanks for your help. > >Rickey Stein >steinda at umdnj.edu > > > > From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Fri Jul 7 17:33:16 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 17:33:16 +0000 Subject: Critical editions Message-ID: <161227019950.23782.6045089890537611859.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Vidhyanath K. Rao said: > However, sometimes decisions about what reading to accept are based on the > editor's conception of what the text contained ``originally''. Yes, this is true, and is also one of the hardest parts of editing. Ideally, as an editor of a text you should be extremely fluent in the language and genre you are editing, almost to the point of being able yourself to compose a work similar to the one before you. This puts you in a strong position to know the sort of thing your author might have written, when you get to a difficult patch of the text. The "dificilior potior" rule is sometimes a useful guide, but can also be used to justify stupid readings. It is sometimes difficult in the extreme to decide whether an author bungled, a scribe mangled, or one is onself simply misunderstanding the text. When dealing with texts in rough Sanskrit or Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit, etc., you have to wonder to what extent you should correct the text, or leave the readings and describe the usage as a feature of the "grammar" of the dialect. I can't think of any good principle for deciding such matters. Corrupt or just different? Rather like the "mad or different" issue in post-R. D. Liang psychiatry. Do not adjust your mind: there is a fault in reality. It's Friday afternoon, and I digress. Dominik From czm1 at cornell.edu Fri Jul 7 21:51:20 1995 From: czm1 at cornell.edu (czm1 at cornell.edu) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 17:51:20 -0400 Subject: Critical editions Message-ID: <161227019956.23782.3634373504793258804.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> V. Rao: >I agree with the last two sentences. But not the first. Keith, in his >re-edition of Aitreya Aaranyaka, says flat out that no major changes >from Mitra's edition were found. The re-edition of .Rgvidhaana in >``Vedic Tantrism'' does not seem be such a great improvement over Meyer's (?) >edition. And yet Bhat finds his work a great improvement over Meyer's edition. His text-critical notes show that there are (at least) two recensions of the Rgvidhana, that these differ from one another substantially (whole passages in one not found in the other), and that he found the "original" far from easy to restore for about half the text. Note also in Aithal's Vedalaksana that there are five or so different texts with Rgvidhana in their title and many many unedited manuscripts in the catalogues. Of course catalogues only cover a fraction of the manuscripts that exist. So redoing the edition was no waste of time and more useful work could still be done. As for Keith, he did find variants in the AA, but in his *judgment* they were not worth recording. That he enitrely dismisses the value of the readings of the Buhler MS from Kashmir makes this judgment suspicious. It would not be the first time that Keith was peremptory. Yet his judgment does serve as a counterexample to the suggestion that editors of texts must feel a pressure to "improve" texts in order to justify their work. > >Good test cases will be "Satapatha and Aitreya Brahmanans. Surely these >works deserve a critical edition based on all available manuscripts. Absolutely. Of course there are already two recensions of the SB known - Madh. and Kanva. Note however that the techniques deployed in the editing of Vedic texts are not necessarily applicable to editing other later works by individual authors. So editing SB and AB may not be a good way to test whether the Sankara text tradition is uniform. Why not look at the manuscripts of Sankara's works too ? I think that this is Dominik's main point - why not make observations ? Surely Galileo in his day would have been discouraged from looking through a telescope at Jupiter, since Ptolemaic tradition had predicted Jupiter's movement reliably for ca. 2000 years. Or if he did look it would only be deemed meaningful in so far as it confirmed Ptolemy's model. I make this analogy only partly facetiously. In fact text-criticism was once considered a progressive, subversive intellectual practice, since it presented itself as scientific, and placed no special weight on received opinion as such. Some contributors to this discussion have expressed concern about the "disrespectful" implications of the text-criticism of texts belonging to Indian religious traditions, and they are not alone. The understanding of the text traditions of Christianity and other religions have been turned on their head again and again by this sort of study of texts. The reason Witzel et. al. have mentioned the dangers of doing text-criticism, it seems to me, is for that same reason. As alluded to by Daud Ali, text-critical philology is now considered disreputable in some circles in the American academy also because it presents itself as scientific, which now means that it stands out as old-fashioned and reactionary because of being logical-positivist, and therefore,in the opinion of the day, epistemologically naive. The concern that it is now fatal to a career to edit texts is not because of the qualitative value of one's findings, but because of the activity itself, i.e. because editing texts is perceived in parts of the American academy as equivalent to such pedestrian occupations as creating a word index. For myself I think that text-critics were proto-deconstructionists, but that is another discussion. From Jinavamsa at aol.com Fri Jul 7 23:47:40 1995 From: Jinavamsa at aol.com (Jinavamsa at aol.com) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 19:47:40 -0400 Subject: diacriticals Message-ID: <161227019961.23782.12428446687842610469.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I understand that Sanskrit long vowels are doubled (replacing the macron or older circumflex accent) and that consonantal diacriticals include a preceding period for the retroflex (cerebral): .r .r .th .d .dh .n .m .s and similarly for visarga .h that palatals include ~n and "s What about representing the overdots of the gutteral n the anusvaara (both the dot over the m and the dot resting inside a little half-circle cupping the dot from below)? am I forgetting any other relevant instances here? thank you. Jinavamsa From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov Sat Jul 8 03:17:45 1995 From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 22:17:45 -0500 Subject: Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu Message-ID: <161227019962.23782.10004229928442826336.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> July 7, 1995 Re: Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu *********************************** In November 1994, Dr. Michel Rabe posted a query on the above question. 1) Wendy Doniger, Hindu myths, Penguin, 1975 and 2) Cornelia Dimmit, Classical Hindu mythology: a reader in Sanskrit puranas, Temple university press give some sources in Sanskrit. Later Hinduism absorbed/appropriated several traits of Buddhism. Sankara was called "prasanna bauddha (hidden buddhist)" by Ramanuja. In northern Sri Lanka, a buddhist vihara was converted into a Vishnu temple. In late 19th century, during renovation, a gold plate inscription and a huge Buddha limestone image were unearthed. A British collector, Sir Henry Blake donated the Buddha image to King of Siam in 1906. It stands now in Wat Benja (The Marble Temple), Bangkok. This early image belongs to Amaravati school of Art (3rd-4th century A.D.) It seems that Hinduization of Buddhist viharas to Vishnu temples have some connections to Hindu puranas calling Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu. n. ganesan nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov References: a) S. Paranavitana, Vallipuram gold plate inscription, Inscriptions of Ceylon, 2, pt. 1, 1983, p. 79-81 b) Peter Schalk, The Vallipuram Buddha image rediscovered, Jl. of the institute of Asian studies, (Madras), v. XII, no. 1, Sep. 1994, p. 115-122. From CXEV at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA Sat Jul 8 16:30:30 1995 From: CXEV at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (Richard Hayes) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 95 12:30:30 -0400 Subject: Tibetan workshop, Phase Two (Practical apoha) Message-ID: <161227019966.23782.1576496337094372985.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A few days ago I sent out a short sentence by Sa-skay Pa.n.dita without any context whatsoever (because none was available to me). Despite the fact that John Powers describes the sentence as unambiguous and straightforward, I have so far received twelve different translations for it. These translations vary from one another not so much in minor details, such as choice of English words, but in their construal of the syntax of the sentence being translated. For the sake of easing the analysis of these translations, I have grouped them into six families. (In fact, there are really only four broad genera, since A&B can be seen as two species of one genus, as can C&D). The darker the room, the more loudly do we all shout that we can see clearly. Thus, along with some interesting grammatical analyses, we have all been entertained by some dazzling displays of scholarly hubris and immodesty that remind one of the behaviour of the fabulous brawl among the blind men in the great elephant-feeling contest. (Is there anything quite so amusing as the cocksure ego of a budding Buddhologist?) The variety of translations offered by our panel of experts seems to me to provide an opportunity for us amateurs to learn something about Tibetan grammar. In particular, I think we can safely conclude that, unless Tibetan is utterly ambiguous and capable of almost unlimited syntactic interpretation, some of the following families of translation can be eliminated right away by some principle of Tibetan grammar or other. The question is: which can be eliminated, and by what principles? Everyone has had a chance to boast of the superiority of his [sic] translation. The next stage of this exercise, therefore, is to invite all ye acknowledged (and even all ye self-proclaimed) experts in the Tibetan language to offer REASONS why some of the following families (or some of the individual translations within an otherwise acceptable family) can be eliminated from the set of grammatically allowable translations. PLEASE MAKE YOUR REASONS AS SPECIFIC AS POSSIBLE, towards the end of articulating some rules of Tibetan syntax that will serve us all. Please send your criticisms of what you think are the faulty translations to me (or to buddha-l, where I will intercept them). In the interest of reducing the currently high verbosity level on buddha-l, I shall summarize the results and post them sometime next week. Here again is the sentence in question: phung po'i rgyun rgyu las dang nyon mongs pas gang zhig zag pas gang zag ces bya'o. Here are the translations, grouped into families. The first two families, A and B, understand the overall structure of the sentence to be X IS CALLED Y. A. X = "gang zhig", Y = "gang zag": 1. One who (gang zhig) is defiled/obscured (zag) by the karma which is a cause -- the continuum of the aggregates -- and by the conflicting emotions, is a "person". 2. Because it is that which is afflicted by the causes of the aggregates' continuum, karma and kle"sa, it is called the `person.' 3. Because action and defilement cause the continuum of aggregates, whoever is with impurities is to be called a person. B. X = "phung po'i rgyun", Y = "gang zag": 4. The continuum of the aggregates is called the 'person' because it is afflicted due to (its) causes, karma and kle"sa. 5. The cause, namely, the continuum of aggregates, is called a person by anyone who is defiled by karma and afflictions. 6. The continuum of aggregates, is called a person by anyone who is defiled by its cause, karma and afflictions. 7. Due to being contaminated by actions and afflictions, the causal continuum of the aggregates is called 'full of contamination' [i.e., "person"]." The third and fourth families, C and D, contain translation that do not take the overall structure to be X is called Y. Rather, it takes the structure as "GANG ZAG" IS SO-CALLED BECAUSE ... C. A particle such as "la" or "na" is assumed to be added after "phung po'i rgyu", and "gang zhig" is understood as a particle that separates two different reasons: 8. "Person" is so called (1) due to the cause--karma and kle'sa within the continuum of aggregates and (2) because of contamination. D. "phung po'i rgyun" is taken as the subject of which "zag pa" is the predicate. 9. It is called person ("the contaminated") because the continuum of aggregates is that which is contaminated by/due to [its] causes action and delusion. 10. Due to the the causal continuum of the aggregates being contaminated by actions and afflictions, [person] is called 'full of contamination'. E. "las" is taken as a grammatical particle rather than as a noun meaning karman: 11. The continuity of aggegates, because it is what is impure by cause (rgyu las) and by misery (dang nyon mongs pas), is called "pudgala." F. "phung po'i rgyun rgyu" is apparently taken as a bahuvrihi compound modifying "gang zag". 12. Since any particular affliction results from karma or klesha, what is called personality is caused [by] the continuum of aggregates. I hope I have properly understood and correctly classified the different translations. And now, ladies and gentlemen, your criticisms please. Richard P. Hayes From CXEV at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA Sat Jul 8 16:37:01 1995 From: CXEV at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (Richard Hayes) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 95 12:37:01 -0400 Subject: Tibetan workshop, Phase Two (Practical apoha) Message-ID: <161227019964.23782.17798054231237714949.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> From mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com Sat Jul 8 21:19:23 1995 From: mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com (mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 95 14:19:23 -0700 Subject: Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu Message-ID: <161227019967.23782.4522696422808556914.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> * Later Hinduism absorbed/appropriated several traits of Buddhism. * Sankara was called "prasanna bauddha (hidden buddhist)" by Ramanuja. Just FYI, Ramanujacharya never referred to Sankara or his philosophy of nirviSesha advaita as "prachanna bauddha". Although Vedanta Desika (a 14th century Visistadvaitin) uses the term at least once, it is primarily a favorite of the Dvaitin AnandatIrtha and his followers. Mani From daudali at uclink3.berkeley.edu Sat Jul 8 22:26:31 1995 From: daudali at uclink3.berkeley.edu (Daud R. Ali) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 95 15:26:31 -0700 Subject: Vedanta Message-ID: <161227019969.23782.11430223488663931369.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have a question for members on Indology. I am wondering why such inordinate attention is payed to Sankara's Advaita Vedanta. I realize that Sankara's advaita may hold an intrinsic philosophical interest for indologists-- a quite justifiable reason-- especially given the European Romantic obsession with monism, and its subsequent elevation by scholars like S. Radhakrishnan. But it seems as if this interest often presupposes an unfounded historical precedence for Advaita Vedanta. My understanding of medieval history would put Sankara in a very minor role until the late medieval period -- say the beginning of patronage of the Sringeri monastery by Vijayanagar kings. Almost everywhere in India, the most important ideologies were those of dualist (dvaita) or qualified non-dualist (visistadvaita) orders. Pancaratra and Vaikhanasa Vaisnavism, Saiva Siddhanta, Soma Siddhatna and other orders seem to have occupied the most pre-eminant positions in medieval India. The widespread temple-building activities, grounded in the Agamas, as well as the bhakti of early medieval India seems rooted in these essentially theist traditions, which were grounded in one or other form (weak or strong) of dualist or quasi-dualist ontology. I of course may be wrong, and would like to hear some responses from those who undoubtedly know the texts of Advaita better than I on this issue. daud ali From kalyans at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 9 02:34:55 1995 From: kalyans at ix.netcom.com (kalyans at ix.netcom.com) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 95 19:34:55 -0700 Subject: Jury is still out on 'Meluhha, Dilmun and Makan'? Message-ID: <161227019971.23782.16510310115778803921.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Piotr Michalowski wrote recently in sci.archaeology usenet: "As Gelb and others pointed out, the type of refernces we have from third millennium and early second millennium Mesopotamia indicate that Meluhha was for them a vague term for areas along the north coast of the Persian Gulf and extending east, possibly as far as Beluchistan, but probably no further." A series of articles and counters had appeared in the Journal of the Economic and social history of the Orient, Vol.XXI, Pt.II, Elizabeth C.L. During Caspers and A.Govindankutty countering R.Thapar's dravidian hypothesis for the locations of Meluhha, Dilmun and Makan; Thapar's A Possible identification of Meluhha, Dilmun, and Makan appeared in the journal Vol. XVIII, Part I locating these on India's west coast. Bh. Krishnamurthy defended Thapar on linguistic grounds in Vol. XXVI, Pt. II: *mel-u-kku = highland, west; *teLmaN (= pure earth) ~ dilmun; *makant = male child (Skt. vIra = male offspring. Have there been any further explorations on these lines to locate Meluhha? Dr. S. Kalyanaraman From kalyans at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 9 15:51:05 1995 From: kalyans at ix.netcom.com (kalyans at ix.netcom.com) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 95 08:51:05 -0700 Subject: Request for info on indology resources in London Message-ID: <161227019975.23782.1002931114425214594.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I shall be grateful for address/tel. information on the following London/UK contacts: (i) book-shops specializing in indology books and out-of-print books on India and (ii) libraries with good collections of indology- related books and journals (apart from Univ. of Cambridge and Oxford, British Museum, India Office library and School of Oriental and African Studies, Univ. of London). My subject areas of interest are: soma in the veda, Harappan script and civilization; south asian languages and lexicons. I will be in London between 11th and 24th and would like to get publications from these bookshops and libraries. Thanking you in anticipation. Best regards, Dr. S. Kalyanaraman From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Sun Jul 9 08:49:11 1995 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 95 09:49:11 +0100 Subject: Jury is still out on 'Meluhha, Dilmun and Makan'? Message-ID: <161227019973.23782.13833685518133086486.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Piotr Michalowski wrote recently in sci.archaeology >usenet: "As Gelb and others pointed out, the type of >refernces we have from third millennium and early >second millennium Mesopotamia indicate that Meluhha >was for them a vague term for areas along the north >coast of the Persian Gulf and extending east, >possibly as far as Beluchistan, but probably no >further." > >A series of articles and counters had appeared in the >Journal of the Economic and social history of the >Orient, Vol.XXI, Pt.II, Elizabeth C.L. During Caspers >and A.Govindankutty countering R.Thapar's dravidian >hypothesis for the locations of Meluhha, Dilmun and >Makan; Thapar's A Possible identification of Meluhha, >Dilmun, and Makan appeared in the journal Vol. XVIII, >Part I locating these on India's west coast. Bh. >Krishnamurthy defended Thapar on linguistic grounds >in Vol. XXVI, Pt. II: *mel-u-kku = highland, west; >*teLmaN (= pure earth) ~ dilmun; *makant = male child >(Skt. vIra = male offspring. > >Have there been any further explorations on these >lines to locate Meluhha? You may want to check out K. Karttunen (1989). India in Early Greek Literature. Helsinki, Finnish Oriental Society. Studia Orientalia. Vol. 65. 293 pages. ISBN 951-9380-10-8, pp. 11ff et passim. You may further want to read Asko Parpola (1975a). Isolation and tentative interpretation of a toponym in the Harappan inscriptions. Le dechiffrement des ecritures et des langues. Colloque du XXXIXe congres des orientalistes, Paris Juillet 1973. Paris, Le dechiffrement des ecritures et des langues. Colloque du XXXIXe congres des orientalistes, Paris Juillet 1973. 121-143 and Asko Parpola (1975b). "India's Name in Early Foreign Sources." Sri Venkateswara University Oriental Journal, Tirupati, 18: 9-19. Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Research Fellow Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From vidya at cco.caltech.edu Mon Jul 10 01:57:01 1995 From: vidya at cco.caltech.edu (vidya at cco.caltech.edu) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 95 18:57:01 -0700 Subject: Vedanta Message-ID: <161227019976.23782.7588336446007219336.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Prof. Daud Ali : > I am wondering why such > inordinate attention is payed to Sankara's Advaita Vedanta. ... > .... > especially given the European Romantic obsession with monism, and its subseque nt elevation The attention paid to Advaita Vedanta in Indology goes beyond the Romantic obsession, I think. Philosophers of various colours have tried to find in advaita, "the philosophy of India/the Brahmins/Hinduism", either to praise it as the highest philosophia perennis, (like Paul Deussen) or to berate it as a distorted mysticism that leads Hinduism astray. Christianity then comes in as the rescuing religion, and as part of the white man's burden. The utilitarians, the idealists, the romanticists have all found advaita vedanta, or their understanding of it, to be quite useful in what they had to say or think about India. Wilhelm Halbfass's "India and Europe: An Essay in Understanding" and Ronald Inden's "Imagining India" address this issue with their own perspectives. Roughly, the historical fascination with advaita can probably be traced to the French translation of Oupnekhat. > My understanding of medieval history would put Sankara in a very minor > role until the late medieval period -- say the beginning of patronage of > the Sringeri monastery by Vijayanagar kings. >From a historical perspective that looks at empires as milestones, you are probably right. But purely from a philosophical perspective, Sankara's influence in India is immense. Within a century of Sankara, there is a consolidation of commentarial effort in Vedanta. Whatever the views of people may be about whether advaita represents the original Vedanta or not, it is quite clear that it is sufficiently widespread within a very short time. Ramanuja's work VedArtha-sangraha begins with a criticism of three positions that can be traced to one or the other advaita schools. Ramanuja's influence remains more or less geographically restricted in the south, for a century after his time, whereas the Dasanami sannyasi order spread throughout India, tracing its origin to Sankara. Still, it is somewhat hard to describe advaita as "the philosophy" that has influenced medieval Hinduism the most. Undoubtedly, the bhakti traditions and the Agama based traditions were more important in this regard. Thus, even in the advaita centers, temple-building conforms to Agamic rules, e.g. the yantra-sthApana, the installation of Goddess images on Sri chakras, etc. For all the explicit criticism of karma mImAmSa and the implicit criticism of bhakti in textual advaita, the reality in the lives of smArtas is quite different. Both vaidika karma and bhakti play very important roles in traditional Hinduism. This is quite important, because it is from smArta families that the influential Sankaracharyas of the various mathas are selected. Probably a lot of the modern Indologist's attention on advaita is based upon what is called neo-Vedanta, more specifically the Vedanta of Ramakrishna, Vivekananda and their followers. Though Vivekananda finds occasion to criticize Sankara, the Ramakrishna mission is now more or less closely identified with advaita, both by themselves and by others. There is a temple for Ramakrishna in Kalady, Sankara's birthplace. Swami Tapasyananda's translation of the Madaviya Sankara-digvijaya has a quaint verse as a benediction, identifying Ramakrishna with Sankara. The face of neo-Hinduism that the West sees most often, is the Vedanta society's face (barring, of course, ISKCON!). Add to this, the Chinmaya mission, the Self-Realization Fellowship of Yogananda, and such other organizations, and one has a rather large representation of advaita offshoots. S. Vidyasankar From mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com Mon Jul 10 03:28:24 1995 From: mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com (mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 95 20:28:24 -0700 Subject: Vedanta Message-ID: <161227019978.23782.168790753585724440.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Prof. Daud Ali writes: > I am wondering why such > inordinate attention is payed to Sankara's Advaita Vedanta. Someone once said, "In the context of Indian philosophy, you can argue for Advaita or against Advaita, but you cannot argue without Advaita." I think this statement proves to be historically true. Both Ramanuja and Madhva, the two most important post-Sankara philosophers, are forced to first prove the invalidity the Advaita conception of reality before they can proceed with propounding their own. Ramanuja's unusally long commentary on the first sutra of the Brahma-sutras is essentially dedicated to destroying Advaita on logical and exegetical grounds, serving thereby as a testament to the grip the Sankarite philosophy had on the mind of Vedic intellectuals of his time. That having been said, I agree that far too little attention has been paid to the other Vedantic traditions of India, so much so that Advaita is used as a synonym of Vedanta in some monographs. The error is particularly heinous in many scholars' uncritical acceptance of Sankara's interpretation of Vedanta, mentioning others as a footnote or not at all. This has been remedied somewhat in recent times as Christian scholars, intrigued by the parallels in the philosophies of Ramanuja et al and their own faith, have investigated alternatives to Sankara, but for most others, Advaita still reigns supreme. I think that Mr. Vidyasankar's point considering the neo-Vedantist preoccupation with Advaita is well taken in this respect. The Ramakrishna and Chinmaya Missions propagate a version of Sankara's Advaita, leaving room for Ramanuja only as a lesser intermediate step to the "pure" philosophy of the Upanishads. Of course, Dvaita is usually derided as a Dualism not worth spending much time on. Since most Westerners (and Indians) today are introduced to Indian philosophy either indirectly or directly through neo-Vedantist eyes, it is not surprising that Visistadvaita or Dvaita are barely touched, the few scant references found usually profoundly erroneous in conception. I am sure Schopenhauer and a few other Germans are also partly to blame. Mani From kalyans at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 10 12:59:41 1995 From: kalyans at ix.netcom.com (kalyans at ix.netcom.com) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 05:59:41 -0700 Subject: diacriticals Message-ID: <161227019985.23782.12575448871676018765.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> You wrote: > >Jinavamsa at aol.com said: >> >> I understand that Sanskrit long vowels are doubled (replacing the macron or >> older circumflex accent) and that consonantal diacriticals include a >> preceding period for the retroflex (cerebral): >> .r .r .th .d .dh .n .m .s >.. > >The transliteration scheme you are describing is designed for the input >of Sanskrit using only 7-bit ASCII characters. It was designed by Frans >Velthuis for use with his Devanagari TeX package and is fully documented >in a file called manual.tex that is distributed with that package. The >package is called devnag.zip (or something like that). > >Dominik > The following information may be useful. Subject: Devanagari (this is a font for use with Sanskrit, Hindi, etc.) Created by Frans Velthuis in 1987/88 and is available from him (Velthuis%hgrrug5.earn at cunyvm.cunyvm.edu) for a small charge. Another address is "velthuis at hgrrug5.bitnet". F.J. Velthuis, Nyensteinheerd 267 9736 TV Groningen The Netherlands Also available as part of his Devanagari transliteration package: ftp: june.cs.washington.edu tex/devnag.tar.Z, or devnag.zip You could also try, these, although I don't know if they are the same: ftp: BLACKBOX (see introduction):/pub/indic/outlines/vnagari.* ftp: ctan: tex-archive/language/devanagari/* S. Kalyanaraman From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Mon Jul 10 06:30:24 1995 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 07:30:24 +0100 Subject: Dating the Santi parvan and Anusasana parvan. Message-ID: <161227019983.23782.12480624965516225928.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >To the multiple receipients of Indology discussion group, > > I am currently engaged in researching my M.A. Thesis on "Dana/Daksina >in the Mahabharata", specifically bks.12 & 13. At present I am trying to >obtain as much information as possible on the date and historical >context of these two books. I have read Hopkins' *The Great Epic of >India*, and "The Bharata and The Great-Bharata", and have recently >obtained a copy of Yardi's *The Mahabharata:It's genesis and growth*, >but I am unaware of any other texts which deal with this issue at any >length. I would be greatly indebted to anyone who could provide me with >any other references or general advice on this topic. I would strongly advice you not to pay too much attention to Yardi's work. Yardi uses statistical techniques in a very uncritical manner, and his results are not reliable. Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Research Fellow Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From tart at iastate.edu Mon Jul 10 13:13:23 1995 From: tart at iastate.edu (Gary M Tartakov) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 08:13:23 -0500 Subject: temple related textual traditions Message-ID: <161227019986.23782.13522724458792449385.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I find Daud AliUs question on Sankara and its responses interesting on the issue of the philosophical or theological grounding of the great stone the temple tradition. I am interested in what they and others on *Indology* can offer as sources for further investigation of the textual traditions that actually apply to temple building before and after Sankara. Which are those most important today? Gary Michael Tartakov From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Mon Jul 10 10:07:48 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 10:07:48 +0000 Subject: diacriticals Message-ID: <161227019981.23782.7451920484095958935.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Jinavamsa at aol.com said: > > I understand that Sanskrit long vowels are doubled (replacing the macron or > older circumflex accent) and that consonantal diacriticals include a > preceding period for the retroflex (cerebral): > .r .r .th .d .dh .n .m .s ... The transliteration scheme you are describing is designed for the input of Sanskrit using only 7-bit ASCII characters. It was designed by Frans Velthuis for use with his Devanagari TeX package and is fully documented in a file called manual.tex that is distributed with that package. The package is called devnag.zip (or something like that). Dominik From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Mon Jul 10 16:21:33 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 16:21:33 +0000 Subject: diacriticals Message-ID: <161227019988.23782.6133155382689830592.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Srinivasan Kalyanaraman said: > The following information may be useful. > > Subject: Devanagari > > (this is a font for use with Sanskrit, Hindi, etc.) > Created by Frans Velthuis in 1987/88 and is available > from him (Velthuis%hgrrug5.earn at cunyvm.cunyvm.edu) > for a small charge. Through generous financial support from the Computing Centre of Groningen University and the Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine, there is no longer any charge for the use or distribution of this font or its ancilliary files and programs. > Also available as part of his Devanagari > transliteration package: > ftp: june.cs.washington.edu tex/devnag.tar.Z, or > devnag.zip > You could also try, these, although I don't know if > they are the same: > ftp: BLACKBOX (see > introduction):/pub/indic/outlines/vnagari.* > > ftp: ctan: tex-archive/language/devanagari/* The font is not at the site june.cs.washington.edu, and the other site where it might have been, blackbox, closed last November. But it will be found on the TeX CTAN sites under ../language/devanagari, as mentioned. However, as far as I can see, CTAN only publishes the fonts and the source code for the (essential) preprocessor, but not the executables. The original distribution from Frans does have these. I'll have to do something about this. Dominik Original-Received: by bronze.ucs.indiana.edu PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:59:02 -0500 From: edeltraud harzer clear To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Dating the Santi parvan and Anusasana parvan. Message-ID: <"mailhub.live:067590:950710165932"@liverpool.ac.uk> Hello Steven, I certainly could recommend two additinal authors for the study of the Mbh. You may already seen these, still one is van Buitenen's translation of the first 5 bks with an extensive introduction, which may be of some help (although he did not get as far as 12th book). The other is work by Alf Hiltebeitel who in some respect he challenging the work of van Buitenen. Again I am not absolutely sure whether you may gain any concrete information from his work such as The Ritual of Battle, but I hope it will be at least interesting. Good luck, Edeltraud. From PHIL029 at csc.canterbury.ac.nz Mon Jul 10 07:22:10 1995 From: PHIL029 at csc.canterbury.ac.nz (PHIL029 at csc.canterbury.ac.nz) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 19:22:10 +1200 Subject: Dating the Santi parvan and Anusasana parvan. Message-ID: <161227019979.23782.2874646962646234993.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To the multiple receipients of Indology discussion group, I am currently engaged in researching my M.A. Thesis on "Dana/Daksina in the Mahabharata", specifically bks.12 & 13. At present I am trying to obtain as much information as possible on the date and historical context of these two books. I have read Hopkins' *The Great Epic of India*, and "The Bharata and The Great-Bharata", and have recently obtained a copy of Yardi's *The Mahabharata:It's genesis and growth*, but I am unaware of any other texts which deal with this issue at any length. I would be greatly indebted to anyone who could provide me with any other references or general advice on this topic. Thank you in advance, Steven Columbus, Dept. of Philosophy and Religious Studies, University of Canterbury, Private Bag 4800, Christchurch 1, New Zealand. e-mail:Phil029 at csc.canterbury.ac.nz From breusch at students.wisc.edu Wed Jul 12 05:02:50 1995 From: breusch at students.wisc.edu (breusch at students.wisc.edu) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 00:02:50 -0500 Subject: Prakrti Message-ID: <161227019990.23782.6257313742258526293.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I'm trying to find out whether there is in the Rg Veda any equivalent of the term "prakrti" ("nature") as distinguished from "brahman" (the neuter noun). Any help in this regard will be tremendously appreciated. Beatrice From ashok_sharma at ccmail.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Jul 12 14:55:46 1995 From: ashok_sharma at ccmail.gsfc.nasa.gov (ashok_sharma at ccmail.gsfc.nasa.gov) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 09:55:46 -0500 Subject: unsubscribe Ashok Sharma Message-ID: <161227019996.23782.6602986003535492067.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> unsubscribe Ashok Sharma From TCOB at MUSIC.STLAWU.EDU Wed Jul 12 13:58:09 1995 From: TCOB at MUSIC.STLAWU.EDU (Coburn, Tom) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 09:58:09 -0400 Subject: e-mail in India Message-ID: <161227019998.23782.730240107732896564.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I seek the counsel of colleagues on the following matter. I have elementary competence in negotiating e-mail correspondence: the Indology group and several dozen individuals in USA & Europe. I use it daily. I have no familiarity with World Wide Web or the Internet. This fall I will be faculty advisor to the New York State Consortium program that takes c. 20 students to India for the semester. Our major loca- tions are Mussoorie (5 weeks), Jaipur (8 weeks), Delhi (2 weeks). I will have with me a Toshiba laptop with modem and FAX capability. How might I get plugged into e-mail from the Indian side? Many thanks for whatever advice you can share. Tom Coburn, St. Lawrence University From tart at iastate.edu Wed Jul 12 15:12:17 1995 From: tart at iastate.edu (Gary M Tartakov) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 10:12:17 -0500 Subject: e-mail in India Message-ID: <161227020002.23782.13628195221788266514.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In response to Tom Coburn's post: I seek the counsel of colleagues on the following matter. I have elementary competence in negotiating e-mail correspondence: the Indology group and several dozen individuals in USA & Europe. I use it daily. I have no familiarity with World Wide Web or the Internet. This fall I will be faculty advisor to the New York State Consortium program that takes c. 20 students to India for the semester. Our major loca- tions are Mussoorie (5 weeks), Jaipur (8 weeks), Delhi (2 weeks). I will have with me a Toshiba laptop with modem and FAX capability. How might I get plugged into e-mail from the Indian side? Many thanks for whatever advice you can share. Tom Coburn, St. Lawrence University I think replies to this would interest many of us, so I suggest they be carried on the net rather than transmitted personally. From magier at columbia.edu Wed Jul 12 14:44:03 1995 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 10:44:03 -0400 Subject: e-mail in India Message-ID: <161227020004.23782.16223700429572978766.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > How > might I get plugged into e-mail from the Indian side? Many thanks for > whatever advice you can share. Try contacting Compurserve. I know several people who have compuserve accounts in India (local calls by modem) which seem to work well at least for email access. I'm not sure if compuserve's plans to provide wider internet access (gopher, WWW, ftp, newsgroups, etc) to their clientele include their Indian branch. David Magier From vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu Wed Jul 12 15:47:06 1995 From: vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 11:47:06 -0400 Subject: Critical Editions Message-ID: <161227020006.23782.3426069042956988259.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> V. Rao: >I agree with the last two sentences. But not the first. Keith, in his >re-edition of Aitreya Aaranyaka, says flat out that no major changes >from Mitra's edition were found. The re-edition of .Rgvidhaana in >``Vedic Tantrism'' does not seem be such a great improvement over Meyer's (?) >edition. C. Minkowski: >And yet Bhat finds his work a great improvement over Meyer's edition. His >text-critical notes show that there are (at least) two recensions of the >Rgvidhana, that these differ from one another substantially (whole passages >in one not found in the other), and that he found the "original" far from >easy to restore for about half the text. I no longer have access to Meyer's edition. So I will go by what Bhat says in his introduction. Excluding the phala"sruti, Bhat's edition has 731 stanzas. Meyer's edition has 15 more (no, I did not leave out a zero). Bhat regards the manuscripts Bo2 and Ta and the printed (commerical?) edition Bo1 as belonging to the shorter recension; this is also what the commentary Cm comments on. The manuscript Ba is supposed to belong to the longer recension. Here is a break-down of the 15 extra stanzas in Meyer's edition: 3 after 2.131 and 3 after 2.132, found in one (out of three) manuscripts used by Meyer, and which included in the text anyway. 4 after 3.161, found the margins of the manuscripts (how many?) used by Meyer and put inside brackets in the edition. These four are also found in Ba. 1 after 3.18 found in Ba. 1 after 4.44ab, apparently not found in any other manuscripts. 2 after 1.87, also found in Bo1, Bo2 and Ta, but not in Ba. The commentary comments on one more "sloka than Bhat's text, but whether it is one of these 2 is not stated. 1 after 4.121ab, also found in Bo1 and Bo2; also possibly in the commentary. This is the evidence for the existence of a longer and shorter recensions. I won't comment on the emendations made by Meyer because I don't have his edition in front of me (and his introduction was Latin to me :-^) C.M.: > Note also in Aithal's Vedalaksana >that there are five or so different texts with Rgvidhana in their title and >many many unedited manuscripts in the catalogues. Of course catalogues >only cover a fraction of the manuscripts that exist. So redoing the >edition was no waste of time and more useful work could still be done. There are two different statements in Bhat's inroductory material about longer and shorter versions of .Rgvidhaana. The first is on p.~16 and on p.~152, where reference is made to Jye.s.ta or B.rhad .Rgvidhaana. According to Bhat, this is mostly concerned with the tenth mandala and is ``longer''. I think that this is supposed to have slightly less than 500 stanzas (meter?). [Bhat's edition has 65 "slokas of general nature in the beginning, 337 "slokas on the tenth mandala and khilas there and 17 "slokas at the end of general matter.] Of course, it would be nice to know if there is any overlap between B.rhad .Rgvidhaana and the .Rgvidhaana in 4 chapters + phala"sruti. But Bhat did not do that. He simply edited the latter. Incidentally, he also says that this is also known as the Ka.ni.s.ta .Rgvidhaana. Of Aithal's five types (excluding the versions in the Puraa.nas), one is category consists of those whose version is unknown, one is B.rhad, one is Ka.ni.s.ta, and one is 4 chapters version. C.M.: >As for Keith, he did find variants in the AA, but in his *judgment* they >were not worth recording. That he enitrely dismisses the value of the >readings of the Buhler MS from Kashmir makes this judgment suspicious. It >would not be the first time that Keith was peremptory. Yet his judgment >does serve as a counterexample to the suggestion that editors of texts must >feel a pressure to "improve" texts in order to justify their work. Of course, Keith records (or at least he says that he does) all readings of the Buehler MS, even the ones he regarded as copying errors. So it is possible to check if his judgement is valid in the case of this MS. Keith lived in another era, with different demands on academics and different expectations of publications. Note also that I did not say ``must feel a pressure...'', but ``may feel ...''. The point I wish to make is that such pressures, if felt, must be actively resisted, and that such resistance must have the express support of the academic community at large. Nath Rao (natharao+ at osu.edu) 614-366-9341 From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Wed Jul 12 13:59:43 1995 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 14:59:43 +0100 Subject: Indic chronolgy Message-ID: <161227019994.23782.17936980677382937319.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am looking for bibliographical references to journal articles concerning themselves with ancient Indic chronology, both historical and literary. Any hints would be appreciated. Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Research Fellow Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From andom at dpc.aichi-gakuin.ac.jp Wed Jul 12 06:05:55 1995 From: andom at dpc.aichi-gakuin.ac.jp (Mitsuru Ando) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 15:05:55 +0900 Subject: sorting Skt words on Mac Message-ID: <161227019993.23782.14442990653693079292.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, I am wondering whether it is possible to sort words in the Sanskrit alphabetical order on Macintosh. As far as I know, no wordprocessors or texteditors can provide such utilities. Could any of you please let me know if there are any applications or macro- programs working on Macintosh which will enable me to specify the order in which words will be sorted. Thank you very much in advance. Mitsuru ANDO andom at dpc.aichi-gakuin.ac.jp From hgroover at qualitas.com Wed Jul 12 19:38:27 1995 From: hgroover at qualitas.com (Henry Groover) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 15:38:27 -0400 Subject: Sanskrit mailing list Message-ID: <161227020009.23782.9892733711077596280.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Subscribe Please add me to your mailing list. Address: Hgroover at Qualitas.com Thank you. Original-Received: from blue.weeg.uiowa.edu by ns-mx.uiowa.edu (8.6.10/19950309.1) on Wed, 12 Jul 1995 14:49:25 -0500 id OAA20317 with ESMTP PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Original-Received: from red.weeg.uiowa.edu by blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (8.6.12/940408) on Wed, 12 Jul 1995 14:51:31 -0500 id OAA71299 with ESMTP PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line From: "J. Walkup" Received: by red.weeg.uiowa.edu (8.6.12/client-1.3) id OAA91149; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 14:51:09 -0500 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 14:51:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199507121951.OAA91149 at red.weeg.uiowa.edu> To: adgl at cornell.edu, doug at essex.ac.uk, indology at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Seeking Sanskrit fonts for Windows 3.1 Greetings, I want to typeset some text in Devanagari and with a Roman transliteration font. If you are aware of sources for Microsoft Windows-comp compatible (preferably TrueType) fonts for Devagari and transliteration (with diacriticals for long vowels, dots under d,s,t, etc.), please contact me. A reference to vendors or repositories (gopher, archie, etc.) will suffice. Also, if you can pass this along or recommend people who might advise me, I will be grateful. Thanks to all in advance. Please respond to 102011.2245 at compuserve.com (preferred) or to jwalkup at blue.uiowa.edu. Cheers, James Walkup Iowa City, USA and Calicut District, Kerala From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Wed Jul 12 15:26:47 1995 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 16:26:47 +0100 Subject: von Stietencron's address Message-ID: <161227020000.23782.1775519617128640276.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Would anybody happen to have the address of Prof. von Stietencron in Tuebingen? Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Research Fellow Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Wed Jul 12 17:20:49 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 17:20:49 +0000 Subject: e-mail in India Message-ID: <161227020008.23782.16281367063034631506.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Tom Coburn said: > ... How > might I get plugged into e-mail from the Indian side? Many thanks for > whatever advice you can share. Send your query to Professor Anurag Kumar, Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore and he will advise further. Prof Kumar is one of the heads of the ERNET project. Dominik From skjain at server.uwindsor.ca Wed Jul 12 23:30:40 1995 From: skjain at server.uwindsor.ca (S Jain) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 19:30:40 -0400 Subject: Urdu and other script fonts (fwd) Message-ID: <161227020012.23782.18265160197857589188.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> [re. jwalkup's query re. Devanagari fonts. Perhaps the following be of some interest to you.] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 00:40:47 BST From: Frances Pritchett To: Members of the list Subject: Re: Urdu and other script fonts I take this opportunity to forward the FONTS list from the South Asia Gopher maintained here at Columbia, and to solicit further comments and feedback from everyone who uses the list, so it can be kept up to date. Regards, Fran Pritchett = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I N V E N T O R Y O F L A N G U A G E M A T E R I A L S = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = An electronic publication project General editor: Frances Pritchett Publishing supervisor: David Magier Hard copy publisher: Southern Asian Institute, Columbia University Year of publication: annual, with frequent updates May be copied or distributed without permission. Comments and suggestions are welcomed by the editor. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = C O M P U T E R S C R I P T F O N T S Editor for Fonts: Frances Pritchett, Columbia University For general information about ILM, see: INTRODUCTION TO ILM IMPORTANT NOTE: The editor has not tried out these fonts and does not vouch for any of their claims. This information has been compiled as a public service only. --Last updated: May 1995-- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = AUTHOR: Aklujkar, Prof. Ashok , Department of Asian Studies, Univ. of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. Phone 604-822-5185 or 604-274-5353. Fax 604- 822-8937. LANGUAGE: Sanskrit, Hindi, Marathi: "Avanti," "Kashi" PRICE: $40. ("I contribute the net proceeds to a student assistance fund.") OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac. COMMENT: "Avanti was made by me in 1985 (slightly improved in 1988) for dot-matrix printers; it is a considerably improved version of what George Hart (Univ. of California, Berkeley) had accomplished. A logical assignment of Nagari letters to the Roman keyboard, one that speeds up typing and learning, is my other main contribution. That the font prints well even on laser printers is something that still surprises me. It is, for example, the type used for Devanagari text matter in my book *Sanskrit: an Easy Introduction to an Enchanting Language*. The diskette also includes the Roman fonts "Ganga" and "Sindhu" which can be used for transliteration of most literary languages of South Asia" (--Author). ___ AUTHOR: Bryant, Dr. Kenneth E. , Department of Asian Studies, 1871 West Mall, Univ. of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1W5. Phone 604-822-5185 or 604- 274-5353. Fax 604-822-8937. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Sanskrit: "Jaisalmer" for Devanagari, "Taj" for Roman transliteration PRICE: $100 OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac: Postscript Type 1, Truetype. Windows versions available soon. COMMENT: "The two fonts, sold as a package, come in Regular, Bold, Italic, and Bold-Italic. Included in the package are keyboard layout files for the system folder, which extensively redefine the system of dead keys. This is particularly important for Jaisalmer; it includes a very large number of conjuncts for Sanskrit which can only be accessed through dead key combinations. Extensive documentation" (--Author). ___ AUTHOR: C-DAC, Center for Development of Advanced Computing, Pune, India. LANGUAGE: Assamese, Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Kashmiri, Malayalam, Marathi, Nepali, Oriya, Punjabi, Sanskrit, Sinhala, Sindhi, Tamil, Telugu, Urdu, etc. CONTACT: Mohan Tambe , CDAC, Pune University Campus, Ganeshkhind, Pune, India 411 007. Phone 212-33-2461, 33-2483, 33-2479. Fax 212-33-7551. PRICE: All the available fonts in any single script, Rs. 12,000. Any two languages, Rs. 24,000. All Indian scripts, Rs. 38,000. OPERATING SYSTEM: SCO-XENIX, or any IBM PC compatible running a Unix variant. COMMENT: A strikingly fine set of TrueType fonts for all the Indian languages. (This is the same group responsible for the GIST card, a board for creating a multilingual machine from several different types of computers.) Characters are encoded using the Government of India standard, ISCII. INFORMATION: James Nye , 312-702-8430 ___ AUTHOR: Chopde, Avinash LANGUAGE: "ITRANS": Bengali, Hindi, Marathi, Sanskrit, Tamil, Telugu, etc. PRICE: Free ACCESS: Available by anonymous FTP as itrans32 and supporting files, from the following repositories (among others): cs.duke.edu: /dist/sources/ oak.oakland.edu: /pub/msdos/tex/ OPERATING SYSTEM: TeX on Unix/DOS COMMENT: .zip for DOS, .tar.Z for Unix. A set of programs for producing Indian script output from transliterated input; optionally integrates with TeX; a formatter is included that outputs PostScript directly. CS encoding will soon be added as a supported input coding scheme. ___ AUTHOR: Courtney, David LANGUAGE: Hindi, Sanskrit PRICE: $25 ACCESS: Available as a shareware package on the networks. OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac, but adaptible for Windows. COMMENT: "A Truetype font. The package contains extensive documentation and a large number of conjunct forms and a few dingbats; also a bit-mapped version. It has a very large set, so many of the characters are only availible through deadkey combinations. The real strength of the script is its orientation towords DTP applications that revolve around traditional Hindustani musical notation" (--Author). ___ AUTHOR: De, Dr. Prasun K. LANGUAGES: Sanskrit: "Devnagari"; Bengali: "Bangalekhon"; transliteration: "Vedalipi" PRICE: $100 per font; $65 for students working with South Asian languages (further need-based concession possible); proceeds are donated to non-profit spiritual organizations. OPERATING SYSTEM: Macintosh; Windows 3.1 and above COMMENT: These are TrueType and Postscript scalable laser fonts that work with any Macintosh or Windows application in all available styles. "The fonts are very pleasing (artistic) in printed form. The keyboard is mapped using a scheme that makes for ease and facility of operation and learning" (-- Debashish Banerji). INFORMATION: Debashish Banerji . Phone 818-362-6313. ___ AUTHOR: Deshpande, Dr. Madhav , Department of Asian Languages and Cultures, 3070 Frieze Building, Univ. of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109. Phone 313-747-2159. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Marathi, Sanskrit PRICE: Each font $100, all three $250 OPERATING SYSTEM: Postscript and truetype versions of Nagari and Roman diacritics fonts for Macintosh. The Nagari "Madhushree" font works for Sanskrit, Hindi, Marathi. "Mandakini" works for Sanskrit and Hindi, and can do all the dotted letters used to transcribe Urdu sounds. The Roman diacritics font, "Manjushree-CSX," follows the CSX coding, but has a lot more diacritics. COMMENT: "The print quality of the Devanagari fonts approximates the typography of Nirnayasagara press. The Manjushree-CSX font looks like Times-Roman. All three fonts are of the best publishing quality if used with a high resolution laser printer" (--Author). ___ AUTHOR: Ecological Linguistics , PO Box 15156, Washington DC 20003. Phone 202-547-7678. LANGUAGE: Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Malayalam, Punjabi, Sinhalese, Tamil, Telugu, Tibetan, etc.; also Kharoshti, Brahmi, Harappan symbols PRICE: $70 per font OPERATING SYSTEM: Mostly Mac (best on system 7 or later); both Postscript and TrueType (for Windows 3.1 or later) outline font formats scalable to any size. COMMENT: "We specialize in complex alphabets and, for Macintosh, super-efficient software-selectable keyboards, and were rated 'best foreign language fonts' by one of the two largest Macintosh users groups for two years running. Used by major academic institutions for publishing" (--Author.) ___ AUTHOR: Flyn, Christopher J. . LANGUAGE: Tibetan MAINTAINER: Dr. T. Matthew Ciolek , ANU Social Sciences Information Systems Administrator, Coombs Computing Unit, Research School of Social Sciences, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 0200, Australia. PRICE: Free ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: coombs.anu.edu.au: coombspapers/otherarchives /asian-studies-archives/tibetan-archives /tibet-software OPERATING SYSTEM: The "TibKey" software is a Tibetan keyboard emulator program for Windows 3.1x and Tibetan `Modern' TrueType font. Documentation (a total of 14 files, 390Kb) is included. ___ AUTHOR: Govindaraj, Dr. LANGUAGE: Tamil PRICE: Free ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: mac.archive.umich.edu: /mac/system.extensions/font /type1/palladam2.1.sit.hqx wuarchive.wustl.edu: /systems/mac/umich.edu /system.extensions/font/type1 /palladam2.1.sit.hqx OPERATING SYSTEM: Macintosh ___ AUTHOR: Goyal, Ashok , Vaishnav Books Ltd. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Gujarati, Sanskrit MAINTAINER: Digitron Computers, Toronto, Canada. Phone 905-454-3620. Also: Digitron, 3 Smithers Cr, Brampton, Ontario Canada L6Y 3L3. PRICE: $199 OPERATING SYSTEM: Windows ___ AUTHOR: Hart, Prof. George. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Tamil PRICE: Free; these fonts are now entirely in the public domain. ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: mac.archive.umich.edu: /mac/system.extensions/font /type3/indianfonts.sit.hqx wuarchive.wustl.edu: /systems/mac/umich.edu /system.extensions/font/type3 /indianfonts.sit.hqx OPERATING SYSTEM: Macintosh INFORMATION: Ravinder Bhumbla ___ AUTHOR: Hellingman, Jeroen LANGUAGE: Malayalam PRICE: Free OPERATING SYSTEM: TeX/Metafont ___ AUTHOR: Humanities and Arts Computing Center. LANGUAGE: Tamil MAINTAINER: Humanities and Arts Computing Center, Univ. of Washington. Email: PRICE: Free ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: ymir.claremont.edu: [TEX.BABEL.Tamil]*.* OPERATING SYSTEM: itrans (source in this post) or C + TeX with included preprocessor ___ AUTHOR: Inaam Alvi Computers. LANGUAGE: Bengali, Gujarati, Gurmukhi, Hindi, Urdu MAINTAINER: Artistic Computers, 601 8th Ave., 2nd floor, New York, NY 10018. Phone 212-279-7010; 212-643-2199. Fax: 212-714-2221. OPERATING SYSTEM: Runs on PCs in DOS. COMMENT: Expensive but elegant; individuals can buy stripped-down versions of fonts actually designed for newspaper use. Good technical support. ___ AUTHOR: InPros (Intellectual Property Solutions) , Box 57-2141, Houston, TX 77257-2141; phone 713-465-2967 (fax, voice mail, and fax-on-demand). LANGUAGE: Hindi: "SheelRekha," "RoopLekha," "Kamal," etc.; Gujarati: "Shefali," "Nita," "Anarkali," "Agni," etc.; Bengali: "Jayanti," "BornaMala," etc.; Punjabi: "Pushpa," "Suman," "Badal," "Arup"; Sanskrit: "Sansipro"; Transliteration: "Diplomat," "MonoPali" PRICE: $20+ for a set of three basic fonts OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac or MS-Windows. COMMENT: Fonts are said to be high-quality and inexpensive. Unencoded sample available by contacting . Other languages and fonts are continuously being added. "It is our intention to create a data base of files that can be printed in Hindi and other languages" (--Authors). ___ AUTHOR: ITR (Indian Typographical Research) Graphic Systems Pvt. Ltd. Mailing address: Hari-Vitthal Chambers, 64 Budhwar Peth, Ganapati Chowk, Laxmi Road, Pune 411 030, India. For inquiries in person: Above Shakti Sports, opposite Badshahi Restaurant, Tilak Rd., Pune. LANGUAGE: Sanskrit, Hindi OPERATING SYSTEM: IBM, Mac. COMMENT: "Mukund Gokhale, Art Director of ITR, showed me truly varied and beautiful fonts for several Indian scripts, sold in customized packages with keyboard arrangements of the buyer's choice. These are expensive but professional in quality. Some idea of the fonts smorgasbord can be had from the following names: Natraj, Yogesh, Shridhar, Chandan, Rambo, Mouj, Mogra, Radhika, Roma, Shweta, Amber, Kalidas, Manik, Rudra, Cakra, Javahar, Tulsi, Gandhari, Seeta, Stone, Mudra, Thunder, Fancy...and Hari, which I saw in December 1994 and which was one of the most simple and beautiful Nagari fonts I have so far seen" (--Ashok Aklujkar ). ___ AUTHOR: Kalyanasundaram, Dr. K. , Institute of Physical Chemistry, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, CH- 1015 Lausanne, Switzerland. Phone: 41-21-693 3622. Fax: 41-21-693 4111. LANGUAGE: Tamil OPERATING SYSTEM: Macintosh (Postscript1), Windows (Truetype) PRICE: Free ACCESS: "Please send a request to the author via email, stating the operating system to be used and the form for emailing (unencoded or binary)" (--Author). ___ AUTHOR: Kumar, Ashwini . LANGUAGE: Hindi, Malayalam, Tamil, Telugu, etc. MAINTAINER: H&M Enterprises, 8304 N.W. 113 Terrace, Oklahoma City, OK 73162. Phone 405-728-0634 (voice & fax). OPERATING SYSTEM: PC/XT,AT COMMENT: Bilingual word processor for IBM PC/XT and AT as well as clones. ___ AUTHOR: Kushwaha, Ramesh , Medcom, 3757 Helen Ave., Ypsilanti, MI 48197. Phone 313-434-1970. LANGUAGE: Hindi: "Vernmala" PRICE: $25 OPERATING SYSTEM: Outline, scaleable, True Type Font that can be used on any software supported under Microsoft Windows 3.1 or any Macintosh system. Postscript Type 1, Type 3, Encapsulated Postscript or Bitmapped fonts can also be generated. ___ AUTHOR: Lagally, Prof. Klaus, , Institut fuer Informatik, Zeige mir deine Uhr, Breitwiesenstrasse 20-22, 70565 Stuttgart, Germany. Phone +49-711-7816392. Fax +49-711-7816370. LANGUAGE: Urdu (also Arabic (fully vowelized), Persian, Pashto, Ottoman) PRICE: Free ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de: /pub/TeX/arabtex /arabtex.%*,faq% sunsite.unc.edu: /pub/packages/TeX/language/arabtex OPERATING SYSTEM: LaTeX, macro package plus METAFONT sources COMMENT: Uses Arabic-style Naskh fonts; Persian-style Nastaliq fonts under development. Limited support for Biblical Hebrew (vowelized), Ugaritic Cuneiform (inquire). ___ AUTHOR: Linguist's Software, Box 580, Edmonds, WA 98020-0580. Phone 206-775-1130. Fax 206-771-5911. LANGUAGE: Gujarati, Hindi, Punjabi, Sanskrit PRICE: $99.95 each OPERATING SYSTEM: Windows. ___ AUTHOR: Linotype-Hell, Bath Road, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England GL53 7LR. Phone 024-222-2333. LANGUAGE: Bengali, Gujarati, Malayalam, Tamil PRICE: substantial OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac, MS-DOS, etc. ___ AUTHOR: Monotype Typography Ltd., Perrywood Business Park, Salfords, Redhill, Surrey RH1 5JP, England. Phone 44-0737-76-5959. Fax 0737-76-9243, 0737-76-0942. Contact: Ian Bezer or Julie Collier-Smith. LANGUAGE: Bengali, Gujarati, Gurmukhi, Hindi, Kannada, Malayalam, Oriya, Pushto, Sinhala, Tamil, Telugu, Urdu OPERATING SYSTEM: "Monotype seems to have packages which provide the required font together with Mac or MS Windows keyboard drivers, etc. I was quoted 238 pounds for a Devanagari font with keyboard driver for Windows. You can also buy larger collections of characters, spread over several fonts, which have a greater variety of special sorts (pre-made conjuncts, etc.), but then you have to sort out the composition issues yourself. Prices still reasonable." (--Dominik Wujastyk) COMMENT: "These fonts are *really* good. This is what has been used for major publishing (including newspapers) all over Asia since the twenties." (--Dominik Wujastyk) ___ AUTHOR: Mukkavilli, Lakshmankumar and Lakshmi , 915 Almaden Avenue, Sunnyvale, CA 94086. LANGUAGE: Telugu ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: blackbox.hacc.washington.edu: /pub/tex/telugu (temporary) OPERATING SYSTEM: Metafont and TeX ___ AUTHOR: Multi-Lingual Scholar, Gamma Productions, Ind., 710 Wilshire Blve, Suite 609, Santa Monica, CA 90401. Phone 213-394-8622. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Urdu, etc. OPERATING SYSTEM: IBM COMMENT: This company aspires to cover an enormous number of languages worldwide, including South Asian language fonts. ___ AUTHOR: Patel, Vijay K. . Phone 817-292-6412. LANGUAGE: Gujarati, Hindi, Sanskrit, Tamil PRICE: $24.95 plus $2.00 S/H. OPERATING SYSTEM: PC and Macintosh. COMMENT: "These fonts are TrueType Scaleable fonts; they will work with Windows and require any Windows wordprocessor. For Macintosh, they require System 7.0 and work with any Macintosh software" (--Author.) ___ AUTHOR: Patil, Shrikrishna , 21647 Rainbow Drive, Cupertino, CA 95014-4826. Phone: 408-446-9144. Fax: 408- 255-6443. LANGUAGE: Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Malayalam, Marathi, Punjabi, Sanskrit, Tamil, Telugu, Utkal PRICE: $73 for initial package, single fonts around $40 OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac System 7.x or MS-Windows 3.x PostScript Type 1 or TrueType. COMMENT: "Many Marathi publications in the US and Canada use these Devanagari fonts; the Telugu and other language fonts too are used by various South Asian Studies departments in and around the Bay Area (California)" (--Avinash Chopde). "The software developed by Mr. Srikrishna Patil and the Indian Language Keyboard program developed by Mr. Avinash Chopde are nearly perfect. At least, I can say this for Kannada, perhaps one of the most difficult languages to set on a keyboard" (-- Tonse.NK.Raju ). ___ AUTHOR: Rahman, Anisur, 722 N. 13th Street #505, Milwaukee, WI 53233. Phone 414-223-3152. LANGUAGE: Bengali PRICE: $0, copyrighted ACCESS: use archie, sgaon.zip Sonar Gaon OPERATING SYSTEM: Windows 3.0 ___ AUTHOR: ScanRom Publications <73760,1005 at compuserve.com>, , P.O. BOX 72, Cedarhurst, N.Y. 11516. Phone: 516-295-2237. Fax: 516-295-2240. Toll free in the U.S. only: 1-800-269-2237. Contact: Arthur Carp . LANGUAGE: Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Malayalam, Oriya, Punjabi, Sinhala, Tamil, Telugu, Urdu OPERATING SYSTEM: The "Bharat Lipi SmartType Fonts" are ready for use in a wide range of computer applications that support ANSI standard TrueType fonts for Windows or PostScript Type 1 fonts for Windows. The fonts work with both PostScript and non- PostScript printers and any type of printer supported under Windows. The fonts offer unrestricted portability and total freedom for use across platforms and applications. PRICE: The price of the 1,516 type fonts on a CD-ROM disk with full written instructions is only $125 plus $5 for shipping and handling. Until May 1, 1995, the price will be $100 plus $5 for shipping and handling. Visa and Mastercard are accepted. COMMENT: "The keyboard layouts for these fonts follow the ISCII (Indian Script Code for Information Exchange) standard. 1,516 fonts are included in the package: 758 TrueType fonts and 758 PostScript Type 1 fonts, which support the computing and writing systems for over 25 languages of South Asia" (-- Author). "I have, after careful checking, found more unsurmountable problems. It has problems with individual fonts, keyboard mapping to the most familiar IBM/Qwerty standard format, lack of support and pertinent documentation vis-a-vis hardware compatibility, unprofessional designing of some of the individual fonts. I have downgraded my earlier product grade to C-" (--Sid Harth ). "Also, the fonts have the vowel diacritics written together with the consonants, which makes it a real doozie to type, unless one sets up an extended and complicated series of macros. Another problem is that the coding for the font titles is not really spelled out...all come up as Truetype on the icon, but sometimes come up PostScript in reality. It is much easier to use the Ecolinguistics fonts, though they are much more costly. On the other hand, these include TrueType Tamil, which I haven't found elsewhere, and Malayalam. They are also very nice in appearance...at least the ones that I accessed" (--Jim Gair ). ___ AUTHOR: Scharf, Peter M. . Dept. of Classics, Brown Univ., PO Box 1856, Providence, RI 02912. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Sanskrit OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac; bit-map screen font, transliteration system COMMENT: Designed for easy typing of all-ASCII character sets; can be adapted for inputting to other fonts ___ AUTHOR: Singh, Jasbir , Maboli Systems, Inc., P.O. Box 3629, Wise, VA 24293. LANGUAGE: Punjabi: "AnandpurSahib Lippi," "Jhelum Lippi" PRICE: $35 for Regular Version, $100 for Professional Version OPERATING SYSTEM: Mac, Windows COMMENT: Price includes one TrueType font, manuals and templates, postage. Professional package has both fonts, extras, two Punjabi games. Both versions can be used with *all* software. ___ AUTHOR: Softech Creations. LANGUAGE: Tamil. TITLE: Tamil Kalvi Software. PRICE: $15 if purchased together with instructional software. SOURCE: Softech Creations, 2910 Brightwater Lane, Abingdon, MD 21009. Contacts: P. Kuppusamy , phone 410-515-3611; R. Kabaliswaran, phone 908-940-0586. OPERATING SYSTEM: PostScript (TrueType) Windows/Macintosh. COMMENT: The font uses traditional Tamil typewriter keyboard layout. Keyboard templates are provided. ___ AUTHOR: Srinivasan, Dr. K. LANGUAGE: Tamil PRICE: $40 (shareware), $0 for non-profit use ACCESS: Available via anonymous FTP from: oak.oakland.edu: /pub/msdos/editor/adami91.zip wuarchive.wustl.edu: /mirrors/msdos/editor/adami91.zip nic.switch.ch: /mirrors/msdos/editor/adami91.zip OPERATING SYSTEM: DOS; Windows COMMENT: Stand-alone word processor. ___ AUTHOR: Thadani, Rahul Bhagwan LANGUAGE: Gujarati, Hindi, Marathi ACCESS: Contact author at 19 Laval Drive, Winnipeg R3T 2X8, Canada; or phone 204-275-1598. Also . OPERATING SYSTEM: Windows; Mac COMMENT: "I have developed 5 Hindi (Sanskrit, Marathi) and 2 Gujarati TrueType fonts that can be easily installed and used with any Windows or Mac word processor, without any additional hardware or software" (--Author). ___ AUTHOR: Velthuis, Frans J. , Nyensteinheerd 267 9736 TV, Groningen, The Netherlands. LANGUAGE: Hindi, Marathi, Nepali, Sanskrit, etc. (Devanagari font) PRICE: $0 ACCESS: Available by anonymous FTP as `devnag' and supporting files from: ftp.tex.ac.uk: /ctan/tex-archive/language/devanagari nic.switch.ch: /mirror/tex/language/devanagari ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au: /pub/tex/ctan/language/devanagari ftp.ibp.fr: /pub/TeX/CTAN/language/devanagari ftp.shsu.edu: /tex-archive/language/devanagari labrea.stanford.edu: /pub/tex/incoming OPERATING SYSTEM: TeX, C, METAFONT source ___ AUTHOR: Vishnu, Meenan . LANGUAGE: "All Indian languages" MAINTAINER: Ethno Multimedia, Toronto, Canada. OPERATING SYSTEM: Macintosh; Windows COMMENT: "The fonts are ok, but there is no keyboard--you have to devise your own. And there is no allowance for the conjunctions and triple conjuctions so common in South Indian languages like Kannada. The people are nice; but the price (around $90) is too much, and the effort is not worth it" (-- Tonse.NK.Raju ) ___ LANGUAGE: Urdu MAINTAINER: Amir Aslam (?) ACCESS: Call 1-800-308-8883 for information, free catalogue ___ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = + From GKIBB at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Thu Jul 13 03:15:02 1995 From: GKIBB at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (gopal iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 23:15:02 -0400 Subject: tom coburn's query on email in India Message-ID: <161227020014.23782.2823378675276362574.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> With reference to Tom Coburn's query on email in and from India, a useful source is the South Asia Gopher itself. There is a listing of ERNET sites in India provided and I believe that there must be about 3 scores in Delhi and a couple in Jaipur - I am not aware of any in Mussorie. It may be possible to go to an educational institution, identify the relevant authorized person (this may be the hardest part), get on to his/her email account, and telnet from there. When I was in Madras last December, I noticed some private commercial businesses that allowed you to get on to an ERNET account and connect all over from there. These seemed to be electronic version of establishments such as "Mail Boxes, ETC." (For those who are not familiar, this a private commercial enterprise that lets you have mail box and allows you access to facilities such as UPS, etc.) I never got to use one of these in Madras but some others on the list may have done so. Gopal Iyer (GKIBB at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU) Baruch College - CUNY From michaels at relwi.unibe.ch Thu Jul 13 11:02:22 1995 From: michaels at relwi.unibe.ch (Axel Michaels) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 12:02:22 +0100 Subject: von Stietencron's address Message-ID: <161227020016.23782.72460174032422273.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Wed, 12 Jul 95 16:58:16, indology at liverpool.ac.uk wrote: >Return-Path: >Received: from arwen.unibe.ch by morgoth.unibe.ch (MX V4.1 AXP) with SMTP; Wed, > 12 Jul 1995 16:58:15 MET >Message-ID: <199507121426.QAA09586 at hedda.uio.no> >Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 15:41:35 BST >Reply-To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk >Originator: indology at liverpool.ac.uk >Sender: indology-request at liverpool.ac.uk >Precedence: bulk >From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (Lars Martin Fosse) >To: Members of the list >Subject: von Stietencron's address >X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas >X-Comment: Indology mailing list >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Would anybody happen to have the address of Prof. von Stietencron in Tuebingen? > >Best regards, > >Lars Martin Fosse > > > >Lars Martin Fosse >Research Fellow >Department of East European >and Oriental Studies >P. O. Box 1030, Blindern >N-0315 OSLO Norway > >Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 >Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 > >E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no > > > > > Prof. Dr. Heinrich von Stietencron Universit{t T}bingen Seminar fuer Indologie und Vegleichende Religionswisssenschaft D-72070 Tuebingen Tel. + Fax 07071-292675 Perhaps you should know, that he is on sabbatical. Best reagrds, Axel M. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof.Dr. Axel Michaels Universit{t Bern Institut f}r Religionswissenschaft Lerchenweg 36 CH-3000 Bern 9 Tel.: (0041)(0)31 631 80 62, Fax.: (0041)(0)31 631 35 51 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Thu Jul 13 11:35:17 1995 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 12:35:17 +0100 Subject: von Stietencron's address Message-ID: <161227020017.23782.17934564784928782720.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you for your help! Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Research Fellow Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Thu Jul 13 12:37:45 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 12:37:45 +0000 Subject: Mandukya Upanishad Message-ID: <161227020019.23782.1745928031545832204.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Jeff Samuels has kindly made the Sanskrit text and his English translation of the Mandukya Upanishad freely available. The files can be found at the gopher site: gopher-server.bcc.ac.uk under /Anonymous FTP area/users/ucgadkw/indology or by anonymous ftp from ftp.bcc.ac.uk:/pub/users/ucgadkw/indology Enjoy! And many thanks, Jeff. Dominik From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Thu Jul 13 12:40:34 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 12:40:34 +0000 Subject: J D Smith's files copied Message-ID: <161227020020.23782.12060553907225187607.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Further to John Smith's recent announcement of his emended texts of the Mahabharata and Ramayana, text utilities and fonts, I have now mirrored his files at the gopher site: gopher-server.bcc.ac.uk under ... /Anonymous FTP area/users/ucgadkw/jd-smith or by anonymous ftp from ftp.bcc.ac.uk:/pub/users/ucgadkw/jd-smith Dominik From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Thu Jul 13 12:51:12 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 12:51:12 +0000 Subject: TrueType fonts in Computer Sanskrit encoding Message-ID: <161227020022.23782.2661158465067221497.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Bitstream Charter font, a nice clear font generously made available ree of charge by the Bistream Corporation, has long been avaiable from INDOLOGY in a PostScript version. Since many people have Windows, but not Adobe Type Manager, I have long been meaning to make a TTF version of this font available. I have now done this. The PS version has also been renamed to make things clearer. See the files bitstream-charter-CS-encoding-PS.zip bitstream-charter-CS-encoding-TTF.zip The files can be found at the gopher site: gopher-server.bcc.ac.uk under /Anonymous FTP area/users/ucgadkw/indology or by anonymous ftp from ftp.bcc.ac.uk:/pub/users/ucgadkw/indology The TTF font is very usable for typing Sanskrit words in, say, Microsoft Word for Windows 6.0. You will probably want to set up your own keyboard macros to make typing comfortable. Enjoy. Dominik PS To do: - extend the encoding from CS to full CSX; - add a Bitstream Charter font with AdobeStandardEncoding so that people can type a wider range of European accented letters in the same typeface; - do all the above also for Utopia, Adobe's free offering; - revise and update the CSX encoding :-( From fp7 at columbia.edu Thu Jul 13 18:15:33 1995 From: fp7 at columbia.edu (Frances Pritchett) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 14:15:33 -0400 Subject: learning Hindi in India Message-ID: <161227020027.23782.5549604052034417891.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Thu, 13 Jul 1995, Marzena Magnuszewska wrote: > I'm going to spend a few months in India ( most probably winter time, > but I am free up to the end of August 1996). Could anyone provide me > with any details about a good place or a person that can help me > improve my spoken Hindi and not ruin my pocket. I will have plenty of > time, a limited sum of money, a recommendation letter from the Indian > ambassador in Poland and strong will to become a good Hindi teacher. > ( The only place I know about is Kendriy Hindi Samsthan in Agra, but I don't want to go there.) > > Marzena Magnuszewska > Institute of Oriental Philology > Jagellonian University > al.Mickiewicza 9/11 > 31-120 Cracow, Poland > e-mail: mmagnusz at vela.filg.uj.edu.pl > > I take this opportunity to forward to everybody the list of language study programs that we maintain for the South Asian Gopher. The Landour Language School might be a good one for Dr. Magnuszewska to consider. Regards, Fran Pritchett = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I N V E N T O R Y O F L A N G U A G E M A T E R I A L S = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = An electronic publication project General editor: Frances Pritchett Publishing supervisor: David Magier Hard copy publisher: Southern Asian Institute, Columbia University Year of publication: annual, with frequent updates May be copied or distributed without permission. Comments and suggestions welcomed by the editor. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = S O U T H A S I A N L A N G U A G E P R O G R A M S Editor for Language Programs: Frances Pritchett, Columbia University For general information about ILM, see: INTRODUCTION TO ILM --Last updated: April 1995-- NOTE: Quotation marks identify material taken word-for-word from information supplied by the program itself. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF INDIAN STUDIES Foster Hall, 1130 East 59th Street, Chicago, IL 60637 Phone: 312-702-8638 *Languages: HINDI with optional URDU in Varanasi, BENGALI in Calcutta, TAMIL in Madurai, sometimes other languages "such as TELUGU" on a tutorial basis, "as circumstances allow." *Duration: Summer Program: ten weeks. Academic-year Program: one nine-month American academic year. *Eligibility: Applicants must be American citizens or permanent residents and "must be committed to a teaching career." Graduate students are preferred, but unusually qualified undergraduates may also be considered. For the academic-year program, all applicants must have at least two years or 240 hours of classroom language study before going on the program. For the summer program, applicants in Tamil or Bengali need offer only one year of prior study. F.L.A.S. fellowships from applicants' home institutions may be used, or applicants may apply for AIIS fellowships. *Applications due: December 31st for both programs. "The program will be administered in India by AIIS staff. This is an intensive language program which provides four hours of classroom instruction five days a week. Classes are small and individual tutorials are provided. There will be regular assignments outside of class, and participants must take part in all program events, such as attending films, plays, and other cultural activities. This is not a research program; participants are expected to devote all their energies to activities which will increase their competence in all areas of language skills--speaking, listening, reading, and writing." = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ASSOCIATED COLLEGES OF THE MIDWEST INDIA STUDIES PROGRAM 205 W. Wacker Drive, Suite 1300, Chicago, IL 60606 Phone: 312-263-5000 *Languages: MARATHI, intensively studied for six months. "Students will enroll in the Certificate Course in Marathi Language at Tilak Maharashtra Vidyapeeth, a university in Pune." *Duration: Ten or eleven months. First, an orientation program: late February to late May, at Macalester College, at which at least a C-grade or its equivalent in all courses must be achieved. Second: late May to early December, six months in Pune, Maharashtra, living with a family and doing language study, course work, and an independent project. *Eligibility: "any currently enrolled student may apply, though priority is given to those who will be sophomores or juniors during the orientation term." Students from non-ACM colleges may also apply. *Applications due: for early admission: April 1st; for admission: November 1st. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = BERKELEY URDU LANGUAGE PROGRAM IN PAKISTAN Center for South Asia Studies, 201 Moses Hall, Univ. of California, Berkeley, CA 94720 Phone: 510-642-3608 Fax: 510-643-5793 Email: *Languages: URDU. *Duration: 30 weeks of intensive language instruction in three ten- week terms, with winter and spring breaks, from October through June. Applicants may apply for only one of the three terms, though this is not preferred. Instruction is provided by tutors arranged by the program. *Eligibility: US citizens or permanent residents may apply. Applicants must have completed two years of Urdu/Hindi and have a good knowledge of Urdu script. Field research by participants is not permitted. FLAS fellowships may sometimes be used to pay for the program. *Applications due: March 1st. A small program, flexibility, some travel within Pakistan. The chance to live with a family in Lahore while studying is an especially valuable part of the experience. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = BHARATIYA VIDYA BHAVAN, USA 305 Seventh Avenue, 17th floor, New York, NY 10001 Phone: 212-989-8383 Fax: 212-989-6482 *Languages: HINDI is offered at several levels. "Urdu, Tamil, Gujarati and other Indian language courses" will be offered if at least 5 students enroll. Courses meet once a week, either on a weekday evening or on a weekend. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = BUDDHIST STUDIES: ANTIOCH EDUCATION ABROAD Antioch College, Yellow Springs, OH 45387 Phone: 513-767-6366; toll free: 800-874-7986 *Languages: Introductory HINDI and TIBETAN are available. *Duration: September-December. *Eligibility: undergraduates in good standing at any college may apply, as may non-credit students with a serious commitment to learning. *Applications due: March 15th. In Bodhgaya, Bihar, "a program of study and meditation near the site of Buddha Shakyamuni's Enlightenment." Instruction by Antioch faculty with guest lectures from local professors; courses and field research are offered for 12-16 semester hours of college credit. Basic Buddhist meditation techniques are also taught. A good beginning can be made in language study, but the brief time of the program means that only a certain amount can be achieved. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = CENTRAL INSTITUTE OF HINDI, New Delhi Embassy of India, Education Wing, 2107 Massachusetts Ave., NW, Washington DC 20008 Phone: 202-939-7055 Sometimes a few scholarships available for Indian-academic-year HINDI language study. The scholarships are modest, but then so are the costs involved. The real price is having to deal with the Indian bureaucracy. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = CORNELL-NEPAL STUDY PROGRAM Cornell Abroad, 474 Uris Hall Ithaca, NY 14853 Phone: 607-255-6224 Fax: 607-255-8700 Email: *Languages: Intensive elementary NEPALI. *Duration: Fall semester (Sept.-Dec.), spring semester (Jan.-May); includes two-week study tour and up to six weeks of independent field study *Eligibility: Undergraduates and graduate students; Cornell credits may be earned; most forms of funding, including FLAS, may be used. *Applications due: This new joint venture with Tribhuvan National University of Nepal (at Kirtipur, in the Kathmandu valley) places participants in simple but adequate student housing with Nepali roommates also enrolled in the program, and encourages study of Nepali language and a theme ("either the cultural diversity or the ecological diversity of Nepal"). = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = CORNELL UNIVERSITY, South Asia Program 170 Uris Hall, Cornell Univ., Ithaca, NY 14853-7601 Phone: 607-255-8493 *Languages: Intensive elementary and intermediate NEPALI. *Duration: June 12-August 4, 1995. *Eligibility: Anyone may apply. Fellowships are open to U.S. citizens and permanent residents who are graduate students at Cornell or other institutions; some tuition waivers may also be available. *Applications due: Classes from 8:00 to 4:00, five days a week, earn 10 Cornell credits; classroom, tutorial, and language lab work. Classes "include both conversational and written Nepali with special emphasis upon developing the language skills necessary for study or research in Nepal." Other related cultural activities also available. Instruction by Shambhu Oja, supervision by Kathryn March. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = DAVIDSON COLLEGE FALL SEMESTER-IN-INDIA PROGRAM Office for Study Abroad, P.O. Box 1719, Davidson College, Davidson, NC 28036 Phone: 704-892-2250 *Languages: Some basic TAMIL, other lectures especially on South India, much group travel. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = DUKE IN INDIA Office of Foreign Academic Programs, 121 Allen Building, Box 90057, Duke Univ., Durham, NC 27708-0057 Phone: 919-684-2174 Fax: 919-684-3083 Email: Prof. Satti Khanna , or phone him directly at 919-286-4771 *Languages: All courses are taught in English, but "special arrangements can be made to accomodate those trying to learn and speak an Indian language." *Duration: From the last week in May through the first week in July. *Eligibility: Duke undergraduates, other undergraduates too; no financial aid available. *Applications due: February 11th; late applications may sometimes be considered. "A six-week, two-course summer study abroad program in Bombay with side trips to Delhi and Agra, focusing on Indian history and the influence of modern media on contemporary Indian life." = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = HARVARD SUMMER SANSKRIT PROGRAM Prof. Michael Witzel Chair, Sanskrit Department Harvard University Cambridge, MA 02138 Phone: 617-495-3295 Fax: 617-496-8571 Email: *Language: SANSKRIT. *Duration: Roughly, June 26-Aug. 18; meets Monday-Thursday 3:30-6:00. Planned for summer 1995. *Eligibility: Those who pay about $2500 for 8 units of credit ("some assistance available for high school students only"). "Stresses learning the Devanagari script, basic grammar, and essential vocabulary. Emphasis is given to correct translation of passages from simple narrative literature and the epics. If desired, on-campus housing is available for about $2100." = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = KERALA SUMMER PERFORMING ARTS PROGRAM Office of International Studies and Programs 261 Bascom Hall, 500 Lincoln Drive Madison, WI 53706 Phone: 608-262-2851 Fax: 608-262-6998 Email: *Language: MALAYALAM introduced. *Duration: Early June to mid-August. *Eligibility: Juniors and above, graduate students, recent graduates; Madison course credits and grades are earned. *Applications due: Second Friday in February; after that, accepted on a space-available basis. "The UW-Madison sponsors this program, which is affiliated with the University of Karala in Thiruvananthapuram, India. This ten- week intensive summer program is designed for students or professionals in the performing arts, for for students from other disciplines interested in Kerala's culture and performing arts. The program will immerse you in the performing, martial, and/or meditational arts of your choice, and introduce you to the study of Kerala's culture and language (Malayalam)." = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = LANDOUR AND DEHRA DUN LANGUAGE SCHOOLS Landour Language School (summer program), Landour, Mussoorie, U.P. 248 179; Dehra Dun Language School (winter program), 51-C Rajpur Road, Dehra Dun, U.P. 248 001 *Languages: Intensive oral tutorial work in HINDI, emphasizing conversation; URDU, PUNJABI, NEPALI, BENGALI can be arranged. Very favorable reports from students, including those who have gone to India on short notice and have sought to arrange their own programs of study. An exceptionally good program for developing conversational fluency. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = MCGILL UNIVERSITY Centre for Continuing Education, McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada Phone: 514-398-6160 *Language: Two semesters of intensive elementary HINDI. *Duration: May 2-June 15, June 27-Aug. 9, 1994. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = NAROPA INSTITUTE--Annual Tibetan Language Seminar 2130 Arapahoe Ave., Boulder, CO 80302 Phone: 303-444-0202 *Language: TIBETAN; both classical and colloquial forms of the language are taught. *Duration: "Two weeks of total immersion," June 20-July 2, 1994. *Eligibility: "A minimal knowledge of the Tibetan alphabet and basic grammatical elements is a prerequisite. If you don't have this background yet, you may still have time to qualify by completing the first two lessons of the Tibetan Language Correspondence Course and by receiving permission from the director." = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = NEW YORK UNIVERSITY--Summer Language Institute Arts and Science Summer Programs, 285 Mercer Street, 2nd floor New York, NY 10003-6607 Phone: 1-800-771-4698 x963 Email: *Language: Elementary HINDI/URDU. *Duration: Session I: May 22-June 30, 1995; Session II: July 5- August 15, 1995. *Eligibility: Undergrad, grad, postgrad students, possibly others (?). *Comment: "Our small classes offer personalized instruction with distinguished NYU faculty and language instructors....Take advantage of the free events at NYU's language houses this summer. Live in Greenwich Village. NYU summer housing rates are as low as $100 per six-week session." The instructor for summer 1995 will be Dr. Susham Bedi, who during the acadenic year teaches Hindi/Urdu at Columbia University. She is an experienced and ACTFL-trained teacher, and also a well-known Hindi writer. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = SCHOOL FOR INTERNATIONAL TRAINING The Experiment in International Living, Kipling Road, Brattleboro, VT 05301-0676 Phone: 800-451-4465 *Language: A college-level semester of basic HINDI, lectures, travel, a research project. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = SUMMER CENTRE FOR INTERNATIONAL LANGUAGES Luther College, University of Regina, Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada S4S 0A2 Phone: 306-585-5300 *Language: Offers six-week intensive elementary HINDI courses, emphasizing oral skills. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT BERKELEY Berkeley Summer Program Dept. of South and Southeast Asian Studies, 1203 Dwinelle, Univ. of Cal., Berkeley, CA 94720 Phone: 415-642-4564 *Language: intensive elementary HINDI-URDU, elementary PUNJABI (summer 1995). *Duration: June 5-August 11, 1995. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN AT ANN ARBOR South Asia Summer Language Program 130 Lane Hall, University of Michigan 204 S. State Street Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1290 Phone: 313-764-0352 Fax: 313-936-2948 Email: Lee Schlesinger, Program Officer, South and Southeast Asian Studies Email: Phone: 313-747-2082 *Languages: Elementary HINDI/URDU, Intermediate MARATHI (summer 1995); GUJARATI, HINDI/URDI, MARATHI, PUNJABI, SANSKRIT, TAMIL are planned for summer 1996. *Duration: June 28-August 18, 1995. *Eligibility: Undergraduate and graduate students, maybe others too? "The net tuition cost for a course (after the award of a partial scholarship) for non-Michigan residents and graduate students should be between $1700 and $2000; the cost will be less for undergraduate students who are residents of the state of Michigan." *Applications due: Forms now available, please inquire. "The particular languages that will be offered as well as the levels of instruction provided in each language will depend on adequate enrollment. Sanskrit will be offered only at the beginning level. Each course offered will be the equivalent of one year of college-level instruction and will carry 6 or 8 hours of University of Michigan credit. Students will be responsible for their own room and board, although both University and off-campus housing are readily available during the Summer Term." = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA AT PHILADELPHIA Penn-In-India Program South Asia Regional Studies, 820 Williams Hall, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305 Phone: 215-898-7475 Fax: 215-573-2138 Email: *Languages: "The program will seek to arrange for instruction in any major Indian language that students are interested in." *Duration: From the last week in May to the end of the first week in July. *Eligibility: "The program is open to all undergraduates enrolled in any educational institution." *Applications due: March 1st. The program is based in Pune, near Bombay, with classes at the University of Poona campus. "Students will choose two courses and will have the added option of studying an Indian language. Courses will earn Penn credits and will be taught by Indian and American faculty." Students will also participate in a community project and can seek internships with affiliated local museums, industries, or hospitals. Students will be housed with families in the area. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN--Austin Summer Program The Center for Asian Studies, Mail Code 59300, Univ. of Texas, Austin, TX 78712 Phone: 512-471-5811 Fax: 512-471-4469 *Languages: Elementary HINDI, intensive MALAYALAM at all levels (summer 1995). *Duration: June 2-Aug. 13 (summer 1994) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA SEMESTER-IN-INDIA PROGRAM Center for South Asian Studies 110 Minor Hall, Univ. of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA 22903 Phone: 804-924-8815 David G. White, Director Email: *Languages: intensive elementary HINDI. *Duration: August through December, 1995, in Jodhpur, Rajasthan. *Eligibility: Juniors and seniors currently enrolled in American universities. Fifteen students will be admitted, with a total payment due per student of $3,500. A total of 15 credits may be earned. *Applications due: May 1, 1995. "Students will receive 8-10 hours per week of Hindi-language instruction, and 3 hours per week of instruction in Rajasthani culture and civilization. Courses will be taught by Indian faculty and staff, and possibly at the University of Jodhpur. In addition, students will carry out independent research projects on topics of their choice." Housing will be in a part of the Fort of Jodhpur equipped with electricity, plumbing, and breathtaking views. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON SUMMER QUARTER Information: Prof. Michael C. Shapiro, Dept. of Asian Languages and Literature, Gowen Hall, DO-21, Seattle, WA 98195 Phone: 206-543-4996 Email: Applications: Univ. of Washington, Summer Quarter, GH-26, Seattle, WA 98195; phone: 1-800-543-2320. *Languages: Intensive intermediate HINDI, intensive elementary BENGALI (summer 1995). *Duration: June 19-August 18, 1995. *Eligibility: For Hindi, students who have completed a year of study and know the Devanagari script. *Applications due: FLAS fellowship applications due February 1, 1994. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN AT MADISON College Year Programs in South Asia International Studies and Programs, Univ. of Wisconsin, 261 Bascom Hall, 500 Lincoln Drive, Madison, WI 53706 Phone: 608-262-2851 *Languages: HINDI-URDU, TAMIL, TELUGU, MALAYALAM, NEPALI, and TIBETAN. *Duration: 10 weeks of summer school in Madison for language study and orientation (Malayalam students will be at Austin instead), followed by one academic year in South Asia: Banaras Hindu University in Banaras for Hindi-Urdu; Madurai Kamaraj University in Madurai for Tamil; Hyderabad University in Hyderabad for Telugu; Kerala University, in Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala, for Malayalam; Tribhuvan University in Kathmandu for Nepali and Tibetan. *Eligibility: College juniors, seniors, and recent graduates who have not yet enrolled in a graduate program. *Applications due: January 13th, 1995, with February 10 as the deadline for financial aid applications. "Applications are accepted after this date on a space available basis." Estimated cost for 1994-95: $10,500 for India and $11,500 for Nepal. "Living accommodations range from dormitories and apartments to a variety of family situations....In Nepal, homestay with a family--in either a city or a small, rural village--is a part of each student's experience." The program has been operating since 1961 and has included Nepal since 1980. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN AT MADISON Summer Program Center for South Asia Studies, University of Wisconsin at Madison,1242 Van Hise Hall, 1220 Linden Drive, Madison, WI 53706 Phone: 608-262-3012 *Languages: intensive elementary and intermediate HINDI-URDU, elementary NEPALI, elementary TAMIL, elementary TELUGU, elementary modern TIBETAN (summer 1995). *Duration: June 12-August 18, 1995. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From srice at cruzio.com Thu Jul 13 23:37:33 1995 From: srice at cruzio.com (Stanley Rice) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 16:37:33 -0700 Subject: New translation of the "Ribhu Gita" Message-ID: <161227020031.23782.6604868875020143453.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, Scholarly review of the new "Ribhu Gita" is needed and wanted. Interested scholars are invited to reply to the publisher as listed at the end of this announcement. Regards, Stan Rice -------------------------------------------------------------- BOOK REVIEW: THE "RIBHU GITA" Translated by Dr. H. Ramamoorthy, assisted by Master Nome Published by the Society of Abidance in Truth (SAT) 1995 --------------------------------------------------------------- Very seldom does a central text of an important religious tradition appear "out of the blue," as in this case. The "Ribhu Gita", a consummate work of Advaita Vedanta, is now translated for the first time into English from the Sanskrit. It is an ancient, astonishing description of direct Nondual experience, and thus a spiritual event of great importance--and not only for adherents of Vedanta. Ribhu declares, in endless variety of narration, the central nondual experience of Advaita: "I am the Self, which is Brahman alone. I am solely a mass of pure Consciousness. I am the sole-existent, undivided Essence. I am Brahman alone. I am solely of the nature of Knowledge. I am of the nature that exists by itself. I am the sole-existent, complete Essence. I am Brahman alone. I am of the nature of Existence. I, indeed, am of the nature of beatitude. I am beyond meaning or absence of meaning. I am Brahman alone." (From Chapter 1 of the "Ribhu Gita", verses 46-48) Directness, specificity, and authenticity are strikingly present. H.H. Sri Chandrasekharendra Sarasvati, a Sankaracharya of the Kamakoti Pitha, has stated in glowing terms that the "Ribhu Gita" is to the Sivarahasya as the "Bhagavad Gita" is to the Mahabharata. Its description of reality most closely resembles those in the better-known "Avadhut Gita" and "Ashtavakra Gita." First-hand descriptions of the experience of Nonduality are luminous and rare. And none is more powerful than this classic, as the reader can scarcely avoid experiencing. It communicates the direct experience of the ancient Sage known as Ribhu. (Ribhu also figures in three of the traditional anthology of 108 Upanishad-s.) The language is colorful, but points persuasively beyond the limits of time and circumstance. The Advaitic framework, the traditional dialog between Guru and Disciple, is enveloped in the universally penetrating insight that is absolute, beyond any conceptual frame. There are helpful introductions, and a good glossary. But beyond its apparently meticulous scholarship, this translation seems intended not just for the scholar, but notably for the serious spiritual seeker. Consider this from the Introduction by Master Nome of SAT: "Abandoning the notions of the external, which give rise to the appearance of the world, and notions of the internal, which give rise to the delusions of mind and an individual, the aspirant should have full faith in the sacred Knowledge of Advaita Vedanta. Endowed with humility and also with full faith in the Guru and in the innate ability to realize the Absolute--because all are, in truth, the Absolute Self--he should imbibe the sublime wisdom of this Ribhu Gita and abide in the natural state of Self-Realization." Or this from Dr. Ramamoorthy's introduction: "In the Ribhu Gita's strident sweep of Advaita, it brushes aside as unreal the Trinity of the gods Brahma, Hari, and Hara, the path of action, the concepts of varna (caste) and asrama-s (the orders of life), not to speak of the duties prescribed for these. It delineate the characteristics of a videhamukta (one liberated out of the body) as well as the characteristics of a jivanmukta (one liberated while yet in the body), implying that liberation, being a function of knowledge, occurs with the destruction of avidya (ignorance) and that the continuance of the physical body is in no way incompatible with liberation." The Ribhu Gita was highly recommended by Sri Ramana Maharshi. Annamalai Swami, realized disciple of the Maharshi, has said, "Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi often said that we should read and study the Ribhu Gita regularly ... Bhagavan sat with us every day while we chanted extracts from the Ribhu Gita, which affirmed the reality of the Self." (Annamalai Swami, in "Living by the Words of Bhagavan" by David Godman) V.S. Ramanan, president of Sri Ramanasramam, has said: "Sri Ramana has spoken appreciatively of the Ribhu Gita. Hence any devotee of Sri Ramana taking this beautiful book in his hand will not fail to feel the love and adoration SAT and Master Nome of USA have for Sri Ramana." The inimitable purity of the Nondual experience conveyed here is of great interest to all Hindus--and not only devotees of the great tradition of pure Advaita Vedanta but those of other nondual traditions: Buddhism, as Theravada and Ch'an/Zen, Sufi mysticism, and even Christianity, especially as it appears in early Gnosticism. The book itself has been produced in India, in a manner befitting its message. In short, the unexpected availability in English of a major scripture of such importance as the Ribhu Gita is a rare spiritual event for which we can all be grateful. Scholarly reviews will be forthcoming, and we are grateful once again for the care with which this timeless tradition of Advaita Vedanta has been handed on over the many centuries. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Note: The first three chapters of the Ribhu Gita will be E-mailed free, on request for the file CHAPTERS (to RAMANA at cruzio.com.) This is also the Internet address of the publisher. -- Stan Rice, Autospec Inc, srice at cruzio.com From malaiya at ives.CS.ColoState.EDU Thu Jul 13 23:38:58 1995 From: malaiya at ives.CS.ColoState.EDU (malaiya at ives.CS.ColoState.EDU) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 17:38:58 -0600 Subject: siddha-mAtrkA script Message-ID: <161227020030.23782.15858936531468899967.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Srinivasan Kalyanaraman wrote: "What does siddha-mAtrkA 'mean' when such a name is assigned to an ancient script which originated from brAhmI and spread to Cambodia and Thailand? .... siddha-mAtRkA = name of the Indian alphabet derived from late brAhmI script which is the source of many scripts of south asia; wrongly called kuTila." Perhaps the name siddha-mAtrkA implied that the script had "perfect" strokes. Al-beruni (b. 973 CE, arrrived in Gazna in 1017) describes siddha-matrika as the popular script in the madhya-desh region (around Kannauj), also used by scholars from Kashmir to Varanasi. He mentions several other scripts some of which are apparently variations of siddha-matrika, others being somewhat different. One can take the script of inscriptions of Gahadawal and Paramar kings to be late siddha-matrika. The script is characterized by straight vertical and horizontal strokes, rather than circular strokes. Modern Devanagari is rather close to this script. All the native scripts of India, Ceylon, Tibet and south-east Asia are derived from Brahmi. Japanese Katakana and Korean scripts can also be considered to be influenced by Brahmi derived scripts. Both were invented by Buddhist monks to represent Sanskrit sounds correctly. Kutila (6-9th cent) is defined to be the precurser of both Nagari and Sarada. We can take it to be early siddha-matrika. We can regard Cambodian and Thai scripts to be descendents of siddha-matrika. Javanese is derived from pre-Gupta spouth Indian scripts. The symbols in Mauryan Brahmi have well defined geometrical shapes (triangle = e, circle = Th, square = b etc), suggesting it was an invented rather then a derived script. That would not exclude external influence. Yashwant K. Malaiya From MMAGNUSZ at Vela.filg.uj.edu.pl Thu Jul 13 17:46:03 1995 From: MMAGNUSZ at Vela.filg.uj.edu.pl (Marzena Magnuszewska) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 17:46:03 +0000 Subject: learning Hindi in India Message-ID: <161227020023.23782.7477377619727894749.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I'm going to spend a few months in India ( most probably winter time, but I am free up to the end of August 1996). Could anyone provide me with any details about a good place or a person that can help me improve my spoken Hindi and not ruin my pocket. I will have plenty of time, a limited sum of money, a recommendation letter from the Indian ambassador in Poland and strong will to become a good Hindi teacher. ( The only place I know about is Kendriy Hindi Samsthan in Agra, but I don't want to go there.) Marzena Magnuszewska Institute of Oriental Philology Jagellonian University al.Mickiewicza 9/11 31-120 Cracow, Poland e-mail: mmagnusz at vela.filg.uj.edu.pl From giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it Thu Jul 13 19:18:08 1995 From: giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it (giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 19:18:08 +0000 Subject: TrueType fonts in Computer Sanskrit etc. Message-ID: <161227020025.23782.2797355486578064264.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> It probably is vastly outdated by CSX, but I would like to mention that I have been using a truetype font for romanized Sanskrit with my students for about two years now. A subset of Times, it comes in Windows and Mac form and - this is probably the main advantage - it converts nicely between opera- ting systems if you are using MS-Word or Winword. Anybody interested? Alex Passi Istituto di Glottologia Universita' di Bologna Via Zamboni 16, Bologna, Italy giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it or passi at biblio.cineca.it Original-Received: by bronze.ucs.indiana.edu PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 14:56:08 -0500 From: edeltraud harzer clear To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: learning Hindi in India Message-ID: <"liverbird.li:057570:950713195751"@liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk> Dear Dr. Magnuszewska, you could try Virendra Singh in Benares. I do not have his address, but if you go to Benares you could try to contact him through the Visconsin Hindi language program. Good luck, Edeltraud. From biernack at ccat.sas.upenn.edu Thu Jul 13 23:27:20 1995 From: biernack at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Loriliai Biernacki) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 19:27:20 -0400 Subject: Manushi Message-ID: <161227020028.23782.13957198310318915029.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Professor Coburn, I met you when you came to Penn and gave your talk "Sita fights while Rama Swoons" (We both did our undergraduate at Princeton)-- I remember that you mentioned that you're a friend of Madhu Kishwar's. I'm trying to get a subscription to Manushi, however, the address I wrote to in New York has neither responded to my letter nor cashed the check for the subscription which I sent them. Do you have any clues about how to do this? maybe another address? Thanks very much, Loriliai Biernacki From pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu Fri Jul 14 12:43:23 1995 From: pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu (pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 05:43:23 -0700 Subject: tom coburn's query on email in India Message-ID: <161227020035.23782.7364127000901531702.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> #From indology-request at liverpool.ac.uk Wed Jul 12 20:32 PDT 1995 #Subject: re: tom coburn's query on email in India # #not aware of any in Mussorie. It may be possible to go #to an educational institution, identify the relevant authorized #person (this may be the hardest part), get on to his/her #email account, and telnet from there. # #Gopal Iyer (GKIBB at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU) # # Since most users on accounts at educational institutions are prohibitted from letting others use their accounts this is NOT an advisable practise (unless consent of the institution is also obtained). I realize this is practised all the time in all countries, but it is liable to get someone in trouble and jeopardize the situation for other researchers. I would advize approaching the approriate authorities directly (perhaps bringing your colleague as a reference) and paying (if required) as a guest user. Peter J. Claus Dept. of Anthropology, California State University Hayward, CA 94542 From jdunne at husc.harvard.edu Fri Jul 14 14:56:35 1995 From: jdunne at husc.harvard.edu (John Dunne) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 10:56:35 -0400 Subject: Fonts and IASS CS codes Message-ID: <161227020038.23782.952779144837552490.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> As is perhaps the case with many of you, my initial choice of a transliteration scheme is quite haphazard. Currently, I use Linguist's Software's `TransRoman' TT fonts, which are designed to transliterate a number of languages. I have found that the only practical way to use these fonts is to write macros in Word6 (windows version) that use keystrokes such as Ctrl-A to switch from Times New Roman to TransRoman, type the desired symbol, and then switch back to Times New Roman. This only works because the typefaces of the two fonts are indistinguishable when single letters are being inserted. The major problem with my system is that it is not easily transferred to other systems. Hence, I am now seeking fonts that follow the International Association of Sanskrit Studies conventions for the computer-transliteration of Classical Sanskrit (IASS CS). This standard assigns particular ASCII codes to the characters necessary for the transliteration of Sanskrit. Although I have probably missed some recent messages that discuss fonts for transliteration, I have not noticed much reference to the IASS CS standard. If I have missed a font package that does follow this standard, or if anyone knows of such a font package, I would greatly appreciate further information. I should add that the only such package that I have encountered is inadequate because the screen-fonts are difficult to read. Thanks in advance for the assistance! John Dunne Study of Religion Harvard University From TCOB at MUSIC.STLAWU.EDU Fri Jul 14 17:11:15 1995 From: TCOB at MUSIC.STLAWU.EDU (Coburn, Tom) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 13:11:15 -0400 Subject: Manushi Message-ID: <161227020040.23782.1635033328657774009.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sorry, I have no info on the USA contact for Manushi. I correspond directly with the Delhi office. Perhaps that's the next solution. Best wishes. Tom Coburn From ECL6TAM at lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk Fri Jul 14 13:21:10 1995 From: ECL6TAM at lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk (Alec McAllister) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 13:21:10 +0000 Subject: TrueType fonts in Computer Sanskrit etc. Message-ID: <161227020033.23782.1114974535251439755.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 18:24:11 BST >Reply-to: indology at liverpool.ac.uk >From: giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it (carlo della casa) >To: Members of the list >Subject: Re: TrueType fonts in Computer Sanskrit etc. > It probably is vastly outdated by CSX, but I would like to mention that > I have been using a truetype font for romanized Sanskrit with my students > for about two years now. A subset of Times, {text deleted} > Anybody interested? > > Alex Passi > Istituto di Glottologia > Universita' di Bologna > Via Zamboni 16, Bologna, Italy > > giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it > or > passi at biblio.cineca.it Dear All, I do not suggest that there is anything wrong with Dr. Passi's fonts, but other users should be aware that it might be illegal to use a copyright font as the basis of one's own work. When I made my LeedsBit and LeedsCyr packages (incidentally, LeedsBit contains the characters for transliterating Sanskrit), I contact the Monotype corporation, which owns the copyright to Times New Roman. That correspondence established that (in the UK, at least) it is a clear breach of copyright to take a copy of Times New Roman and use it as the basis of a font contain new characters in the Times New Roman typeface. This is true even if the original font is owned completely legally: it is the shape of the letters themselves which is copyrighted (at least, that is the position in English law), not merely the software or file which contains them. Monotype do have special versions of Times New Roman, containing characters for Eastern European languages and other scripts. The price I was quoted (two years ago) was 144 UK pounds PER USER! The advice that I received from this university's Legal Advisor was "Don't make any font from a copyright original: only use an original design which is clearly declared by its makers to be in the public domain". I followed this advice in my packages, using the Bitstream Charter font as the original. Bitstream Charter is very like Times New Roman, but different enough to avoid copyright problems. The Bitstream Corporation specifically designate this font as Public Domain, so my understanding is that it is entirely legal to base new fonts on this design. Alec. email: T.A.McAllister at Leeds.AC.UK From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Fri Jul 14 13:27:09 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 13:27:09 +0000 Subject: INDOLOGY Web Page Message-ID: <161227020036.23782.12675797974898409671.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> *** INDOLOGY now has its own World Wide Web home page *** The URL is: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html To access this, you will need to be using a machine that is directly connected to the Internet, and that has a Web browser installed. Common browsers are Lynx, Mosaic, Netscape, and WebExplorer (excellent and comes free with OS/2). Please let me know of any mistakes in INDOLOGY's Web page, or any suggestions you may have for improving it. Given the webbed, networked, multimedia, hypertextual, multiprocessing, virtual reality nature of the world we now live in, I think we should have a nice picture to go at the top of the first INDOLOGY page. I therefore announce the INDOLOGY GIF Contest ==================== If you have a picture that you think would be a suitable banner for INDOLOGY, please let me see it (send it to me mimed or uuencoded, or just give me a pointer to its URL if it is already on the net). It needs to be in GIF format, and not too big. Black and white is kinder to the net, if the image doesn't depend crucially on colour. If I get several images, I'll make them all available via INDOLOGY's web page, and we can all look at them and take a vote. Enjoy! Dominik From biernack at ccat.sas.upenn.edu Fri Jul 14 22:01:32 1995 From: biernack at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Loriliai Biernacki) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 18:01:32 -0400 Subject: apology Message-ID: <161227020042.23782.135654170832338409.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sorry for the personal correspondence accidentally sent onto the list mailing. Loriliai Biernacki From giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it Sun Jul 16 00:23:11 1995 From: giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it (giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 95 00:23:11 +0000 Subject: Fonts and Copyright Message-ID: <161227020044.23782.16864500847911239336.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Alec McAllister may be quite right in his analysis of what might be considered a copyright violation - obviousy I will not be sending anyone anything through e-mail or post until the issue is perfectly cleared (which doesn't seem likely). Being quite ignorant of the intricate folds of UK law, I will limit myself to one question: does the license granted by a manufacturer on a font cease if I modify the font to make it better suit my needs (using a legally obtained pro- gram)? Conversely, can a manufacturer ever grant me a license on a product which it doesn't have, i.e. the modified font? I would appreciate comments on this matter - specifically, we are dealing with a personal, non-commercial use of a modified typeface which, in its basic form, is shipped with every Macintosh computer. Alex Passi From mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk Sun Jul 16 13:06:34 1995 From: mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 95 14:06:34 +0100 Subject: Fonts and Copyright Message-ID: <161227020045.23782.15343188297953033831.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Alex Passi writes: >Being quite ignorant of the intricate folds of UK law, I will limit myself to >one question: does the license granted by a manufacturer on a font cease if I >modify the font to make it better suit my needs (using a legally obtained pro- >gram)? Conversely, can a manufacturer ever grant me a license on a product >which >it doesn't have, i.e. the modified font? >I would appreciate comments on this matter - specifically, we are dealing with >a personal, non-commercial use of a modified typeface which, in its basic form, >is shipped with every Macintosh computer. I suspect that this is a non-problem so long as the font is only used on a Mac. There are a rather large number of fonts in InterNet archives for Mac shareware which are simple modifications of the fonts which come with the Mac. Apple has made no attempt to restrict this and almost certainly doesn't intend to do so. I think it is quite safe to use any such font on a Mac. It might be different elsewhere, since Apple may not be the copyright holder or license holder for this version of Times on other machines. Lance Cousins MANCHESTER, UK Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk From ECL6TAM at lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk Mon Jul 17 11:50:22 1995 From: ECL6TAM at lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk (Alec McAllister) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 11:50:22 +0000 Subject: Fonts and Copyright Message-ID: <161227020047.23782.16851826450507262285.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 23:27:19 BST >Reply-to: indology at liverpool.ac.uk >From: giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it (carlo della casa) >To: Members of the list >Subject: Fonts and Copyright > >Alec McAllister may be quite right in his analysis of what might be considered >a copyright violation - obviousy I will not be sending anyone anything through >e-mail or post until the issue is perfectly cleared (which doesn't seem likely). >Being quite ignorant of the intricate folds of UK law, I will limit myself to >one question: does the license granted by a manufacturer on a font cease if I >modify the font to make it better suit my needs (using a legally obtained pro- >gram)? Conversely, can a manufacturer ever grant me a license on a product which >it doesn't have, i.e. the modified font? >I would appreciate comments on this matter - specifically, we are dealing with >a personal, non-commercial use of a modified typeface which, in its basic form, >is shipped with every Macintosh computer. > >Alex Passi Dr Passi is right: "intricate" is the right word for this puzzling situation! I am waiting for a response from this university's Faculty of Law (the person I contacted is on holiday just now), but I believe that it is entirely lawful to modify a font for one's own academic use, i.e. to produce private documents. (At least, that appears to be the situation in the UK.) However, as soon as the use of the font passes beyond that, then it becomes a breach of copyright. IF I am right ( a big "if" :-), this means that the use of the modified font is effectively limited to the person who modified it: he/she cannot use it for a publication or in teaching materials. The situation is further complicated by the differences between national law codes and the complicated history of the litigation. I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong), that in the USA there was a case in which the court decided that US law only copyrighted font software, not the shape of the letters themselves, so that it would be perfectly legal to create (for example) a new version of the Times New Roman font, provided that each letter was "drawn" from scratch, without being copied from an existing piece of software. (This is like saying that I can create an exact replica of a Ferrari, without permission, and that I can call it a Ferrari, and sell it, provided that none of the metal that I make it from has ever been part of a real Ferrari!) However, this extraordinary decision was reversed on appeal, when it was pointed out that it would have destroyed the entire font-producing industry, since no font-designer could ever claim copyright on the design of the letters. During the interval between the two court cases, a great deal of misunderstanding arose, all over the world. I am sure that this has led to a number of entirely innocent breaches of the law by people who either had not heard of the restrictions or honestly believed that the restrictions do not apply to educational use. The legal advice that I have received is that (for the present, at least), the only safe course is not to modify any font on which copyright exists. Perhaps academics all over the world should lobby their governments to produce an international agreement, as part of the next GATT talks or something similar. Alternatively, perhaps individual font-producing companies might be persuaded to give permission to modify specific fonts for educational use. Perhaps we should lobby them. Alec. email: T.A.McAllister at Leeds.AC.UK From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Mon Jul 17 15:16:47 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 15:16:47 +0000 Subject: Fonts and Copyright Message-ID: <161227020049.23782.3202726542916623169.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The situation regarding fonts and copyright isn't really complicated. If someone copyrights a font then no one else may copy that font without permission. Usually, permission is granted to copy the font from its installation disk for use on a single computer (CPU), just like with all software. Beyond that, anyone who wants a copy of the font must buy it from the copyright holder or her agents. If you make a variant form of a copyrighted font that exists on your computer system you may not distribute it any more than you can distribute the unmodified form. The only fonts that may be distributed freely are fonts that are a) not copyrighted (often home-made and poor quality); b) fonts that are copyrighted but which have been made available free of charge by the copyright holder. Such fonts include Bitstream Charter and Adobe Utopia, and the famous Computer Modern family of fonts by Donald Knuth. There is a small number of other professional fonts that have been donated to the public by their manufacturers, but these fonts are usually not distributed as a complete set of styles (i.e., only bold, or normal and bold but no italic, etc.). The creative effort that goes into the design and production of a professional-quality font is very substantial; easily equivalent to writing a book. Like a book, the final design is protected by copyright. Dominik From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Tue Jul 18 12:41:49 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 12:41:49 +0000 Subject: List of Sanskrit words Message-ID: <161227020051.23782.8925296868605761236.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Through the kindness of Nandakish Abhyankar, a list of 128,000 Sanskrit words has been made available at the INDOLOGY supplementary ftp site. The easiest way to access this and other files is via the INDOLOGY web page: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html (see fourth page). Plain ftp from ftp.bcc.ac.uk:/pub/users/ucgadkw/indology will also work. Look for the files sanskrit-wordlist.zip and sanskrit-wordlist.readme. The wordlist is based on the Tokunaga Mahabharata and Ramayana files; it still requires some massaging to be usable, for instance, in a spelling checker, but it provides an very useful basis for such a tool. Many thanks, Nandu. Dominik From magier at columbia.edu Tue Jul 18 21:06:52 1995 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 17:06:52 -0400 Subject: CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT Message-ID: <161227020053.23782.13929497122913408758.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The event announcement below is being forwarded to your listserv from the EVENTS CALENDAR of The South Asia Gopher. Please correspond with event organizers directly for any further information. David Magier magier at columbia.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 14th European Modern South Asia Conference Copenhagen, August 21-24, 1996 During this forthcoming conference, the European Association of South Asian Studies is going to be founded. Executive members of the organizing committee: Henriette Bugge (Chair), University of Copenhagen Peter B. Andersen (Secretary), University of Copenhagen Stig Toft Madsen (Treasurer), University of Lund Panels: South Asian Languages: Syntactic structures and meanings South Asian Literatures New Pespectives on the History of Tamil Culture Rituals: Traditions or inventions Muslim Concepts of Person, Sainthood and Power in South Asia Christianity in India Modernization of South Asian Religion Performing Arts Crafty Debates: Historical and contemporary issues relating to "art" and "craft" in South Asia Liberalization of the South Asian Economy Conflicts in South Asia - Political and Structural Analysis Partition of Punjab and Bengal Migration, Settlement and Mobilization: South Asians of the Diaspora Human Rights and South Asia Rural Development The Rise and Fall of Rice Environment and Social Change in South Asia The Role of Water in Structuring Perceptions and Values in South Asia Comparative Social History of South Asian Studies in European Countries Urban Custom and Practice The Construct of the South Asian Village - History, reality and relevance South Asian Merchants, past and present FOR FURTHER INFORMATION: Copenhagen University Institute for History of Religions att: Peter B. Andersen 14th European Modern South Asia Conference Njalsgade 80 DK-2300 Copenhagen S DENMARK fax: +45-35-32-89-56 From d.keown at gold.ac.uk Tue Jul 18 23:01:30 1995 From: d.keown at gold.ac.uk (d.keown at gold.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 23:01:30 +0000 Subject: JBE Announcement Message-ID: <161227020054.23782.7941712565158608907.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ----------------------------------------------- JOURNAL OF BUDDHIST ETHICS ----------------------------------------------- WWW: http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/jbe.html http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe/jbe.html FTP: ftp.cac.psu.edu in the directory /pub/jbe ftp.gold.ac.uk in the directory /pub/jbe GENERAL EDITORS Damien Keown and Charles S. Prebish TECHNICAL EDITOR Wayne Husted EDITORIAL BOARD Masao Abe, George Bond, David Chappell, Lance Cousins, Richard Gombrich, Charles Hallisey, Ian Harris, Peter Harvey, Richard Hayes, Christopher Ives, Leslie Kawamura, Winston King, Reginald Ray, Lambert Schmithausen, Robert Thurman, Paul Williams. The Journal of Buddhist Ethics is pleased to announce the publication of: "Cutting the Roots of Virtue:" Tsongkhapa on the Results of Anger by Daniel Cozort Vol. 2 (1995) pp. 83-104. FTP Info: Directory: pub/jbe/vol2 Filename: cozort.txt Publication date: 17 July 1995. Abstract: Anger is the most powerful of the //kle"sas// that not only "plant seeds" for suffering but also "cut the roots of virtue" for periods of up to a thousand aeons per instance. This article examines and assesses the exegesis by Tsongkhapa, founder of the Tibetan Gelukba order, of Indian sources on the topic of anger. It argues that despite Tsongkhapa's many careful qualifications he may not be successful in avoiding the conclusion that if the suutras are to be accepted literally, there almost certainly will be persons for whom liberation from sa.msaara is precluded. [Note: this article is also available in HTML and (experimentally) the cross-platform Adobe Acrobat format from the journal's WWW sites]. All enquiries to jbe-ed at psu.edu _________________________________________ The Journal of Buddhist Ethics is pleased to welcome Lambert Schmithausen as the newest member of its Editorial Board. Professor Schmithausen teaches in the Institut fur Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets at the Universitat Hamburg. In recent years he has gained much prominence for his two monographs: _The Problem of the Sentience of Plants in Earliest Buddhism_ (Tokyo: The International Institute for Buddhist Studies, 1991) and _Buddhism and Nature_ (Tokyo: The International Institute for Buddhist Studies, 1991). _________________________________________ From st31 at sdcc12.ucsd.edu Wed Jul 19 17:30:02 1995 From: st31 at sdcc12.ucsd.edu (st31 at sdcc12.ucsd.edu) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 09:30:02 -0800 Subject: Sanskrit fonts Message-ID: <161227020065.23782.3266156404074013808.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Would you kind people on this list please give me some information about the fonts for computers now available for Sanskrit, particularly the Roman script with the proper accents? Or the original? Thank you in advance. Gratefully, Marianne McDonald Marianne McDonald e-mail: mmcdonald at ucsd.edu From rosenf at husc.harvard.edu Wed Jul 19 14:31:16 1995 From: rosenf at husc.harvard.edu (Susan Rosenfield) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 10:31:16 -0400 Subject: Nisus Word Processor Message-ID: <161227020058.23782.13096549968589352422.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> During the discussions regarding critical editions several references were made to the Nisus software. I am looking for someone who is familiar with this word processor and who can give me some information about its advantages in creating critical editions over, say, the more popular Word software. Any information of this sort would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance Susan Rosenfield rosenf at fas.harvard.edu From WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU Wed Jul 19 15:27:03 1995 From: WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 11:27:03 -0400 Subject: Heesterman's 'axial-breakthrough' Message-ID: <161227020060.23782.9641587872913650603.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Good question. You are not the only one who has been frustrated. Point is, that Heesterman reconstructs his heroic age from middle Vedic and late Vedic sources (Yajurveda Samhita prose texts, Brahmanas, Sutras) and projects it into some mythical (Indo-Iranian?) past -- while he completely neglects the evidence from the *early* Vedic texts, i.e. the Rgveda.(see, e.g., H.-P.Schmidt's article on Pathas, Indo-Iranian Journal 15, some 20 years ago!) This stratum of literature contains much that he would need for his theory. If you are interested in the "breakthrough" -- not an axial one at all, unless you want a very "thick" axle from c. 1100 BC (India) to 500 BC (Greece, China) --- you may look at several shorter or longer versions of an article which will provide you with (a) the rough date for the breakthrough (I prefer: intential reform, first Sanskritization), at the beginning of the Indian iron age (Atharvaveda, c. 1150 BC), (b) the area (Kuruksetra and surroundings), and most importantly (c) some of the *reasons* for the changes and the procedures employed in carrying them out -- mostly socio-political, as could be expected by anyone not fixated by a purely religious/ritualistic approach, (establishment of the great Kuru chieftainship, and not simply a Glasperlenspiel underemployed Brahmins with a lot of time to spare...) Especially (c) was long overdue, I believe. In order to find data one has to read the often untranslated early middle Vedic texts such as the 2 versions of the Atharvaveda, the completely neglected Rgveda Khilani, and the various versions of the Yajurveda Mantras (Maitrayani etc. Samhitas) Sorry for the svastuti: for details see: M. Witzel, The Realm of the Kurus: Origins and Development of the First State in India. The Realm of the Kurus, Nihon Minami Ajia Gakkai Zenkoku Taikai, Hokoku Yoshi, [Summary of the Congress of the Japanese Association for South Asian Studies], Kyoto 1989, pp. 1-4 or the slightly longer version: Early Sanskritization: Origins of the first Indian State. Proceedings of the Munich Conference on Indian History 1992, ed. B. Kolver (pp. 20, forthcoming) or, in great detail: The Realm of the Kurus, Sachsiche Akademie der Wissenschaften, Leipzig, (forthcoming) pp 160 (available on request; on second thought, I may put the shorter summary in the next number of the Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies).subscribe at: ejvs-list-request at arcadiax1.arcadia.polimi.it; WWW: http://www.arcadia.polimi.it /~ejvslist) Hope this helps. You can reach J.Heesterman at Instituut Kern, University of Leiden, Leiden, The Netherlands or at Vienna: Institut fuer Indologie, Universitaet Wien, Wien, Austria. ----- don't fellow Indologists think that this makes for another intersting pointof SUMMER discussion??? MW. re: > I consider myself to be pretty familiar with the various works of J.C. > Heesterman,...... What has always frustrated me however, is that while he > presents a diachronic theory of the shift from sacrifice to ritual, > Heesterman has never as far as I am aware ...... ........ posited even a tentative date for this axial breakthrough... > Steven Columbus, > Dept. of Phil. & Religious Studies, > University of Canterbury, > New Zealand. > > e-mail: Phil029 at csc.canterbury.ac.nz > From zysk at is2.NYU.EDU Wed Jul 19 16:39:50 1995 From: zysk at is2.NYU.EDU (Kenneth G. Zysk) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 12:39:50 -0400 Subject: Basava Message-ID: <161227020062.23782.15612485930911896721.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I should greatly appreciate it if someone could provide me with the full bibliographic citation for the following textual edition: Basava, _S'ivatattvaratnaakara_ Many thanks, Ken Zysk From PHIL029 at csc.canterbury.ac.nz Wed Jul 19 07:20:15 1995 From: PHIL029 at csc.canterbury.ac.nz (PHIL029 at csc.canterbury.ac.nz) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 19:20:15 +1200 Subject: Heesterman's 'axial-breakthrough' Message-ID: <161227020057.23782.15845379977657642034.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To multiple receipients of Indology network, I consider myself to be pretty familiar with the various works of J.C. Heesterman, having grappled with his theoretical claims with reference to the brahmin-king relationship and gift-giving within ancient & classical India. What has always frustrated me however, is that while he presents a diachronic theory of the shift from sacrifice to ritual, Heesterman has never as far as I am aware (due to the paucity of resources available on South Asia in New Zealand I have been unable as yet to look at Heesterman's *The broken world of sacrifice*), posited even a tentative date for his theorised 'axial-breakthrough'. Could anyone provide me with a tentative date?, or maybe even J.C. Heesterman's e-mail address? Apologies in advance for any cross-postings. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank all those who replied to my query concerning the date of the Santi Parvan & the Anusasana Parvan. Thank you very much in advance, Steven Columbus, Dept. of Phil. & Religious Studies, University of Canterbury, New Zealand. e-mail: Phil029 at csc.canterbury.ac.nz From tbaca at mail.utexas.edu Thu Jul 20 08:49:17 1995 From: tbaca at mail.utexas.edu (tbaca at mail.utexas.edu) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 03:49:17 -0500 Subject: An unsolicited inquiry. Message-ID: <161227020067.23782.15789197761452877153.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Two elementary questions: (1) What is the best introductory text for learning to read Sanskrit and (2) Is there a *freeware* font available anywhere for the transliteration of the nagari script (complete w/ long vowel signs and dots for the retroflex stops, anusvara, etc.)? I apologize for interrupting the current discussions on the group, but I am an undergrad student of composition with time only for a hobbyist's interest in Sanskrit (and, eventually, hopefully, the poetry of Kalidasa). Thanks, Trevor Baca tbaca at mail.utexas.edu From jh at cubsps.bio.columbia.edu Thu Jul 20 13:36:09 1995 From: jh at cubsps.bio.columbia.edu (Jim Hartzell) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 09:36:09 -0400 Subject: Compact Monier Williams Message-ID: <161227020070.23782.11564603055873681263.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Could someone provide me with the name, address, (phone and fax if you have it) and distributor (ideally) of the COMPACT edition of Monier-Williams' Sanskrit-English Dictionary? Thanks in advance Jim Hartzell Original-Received: by bronze.ucs.indiana.edu PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:39:05 -0500 From: edeltraud harzer clear To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: compact edition of Monier-Williams Message-ID: <"mailhub.live:043370:950720154055"@liverpool.ac.uk> The Minjoksa Publishing Company, Chong Ko-Ku, Chung Jin-Dong 208-1 P.O.Box 1560 Seoul, Korea published a compact edition of the Sanskrit-English Dictionary. I have not seen a copy. I tried to order several copies last year for several of my students, but encountered some difficulty because they did not spell out their terms. Here is their fax (02) 739-7565. Good luck. Edeltraud. The Japanese have a beautiful edition which is twice the price of the Korean. But I do not have the Japanese address here in my office. From magier at columbia.edu Thu Jul 20 15:16:13 1995 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 11:16:13 -0400 Subject: Sanskrit fonts Message-ID: <161227020072.23782.508817489175496931.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > Would you kind people on this list please give me some information about > the fonts for computers now available for Sanskrit... I have mailed to her directly information about the comprehensive S.Asian font listings to be found within The South Asia Gopher. David Magier From martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.d400.de Fri Jul 21 03:12:50 1995 From: martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.d400.de (F.J. Martinez Garcia) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 21:12:50 -0600 Subject: Sanskrit fonts Message-ID: <161227020076.23782.18154017768651802086.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Would you kind people on this list please give me some information about >the fonts for computers now available for Sanskrit, particularly the Roman >script with the proper accents? Or the original? Thank you in advance. You can have a look at http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/home/ftp/pub/titus/ public_html/software/e-softwa.html Best regards J.M. ======================================================================= Dr. Fco. Javier Mart!nez Garc!a Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft | tel. +49- 69- 7982 2847 Universitt Frankfurt | (sekr.) +49- 69- 7982 3139 Postfach 11 19 32 | fax. +49- 69- 7982 2873 D-60054 Frankfurt | martinez at em.uni-frankfurt.d400.de http: //www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/home/ftp/pub/titus/public_html ======================================================================= From navrang at bev.net Thu Jul 20 15:15:55 1995 From: navrang at bev.net (Manisha Singal) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 21:15:55 +0600 Subject: Compact Monier Williams Message-ID: <161227020079.23782.13474675180268809481.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On 7/20/95 +0600, Jim Hartzell wrote: > >Could someone provide me with the name, address, (phone and fax if >you have it) and distributor (ideally) of the >COMPACT edition of Monier-Williams' Sanskrit-English Dictionary? >Thanks in advance >Jim Hartzell Monier Williams' Sanskrit English dictionary is also published in India. It is available as an Ordinary edition and as a Deluxe edition, 1333 pages. The ordinary edition is $25 including airmail postage from India and the Deluxe edition is $40 including air postage. Delivery will be in about 4 weeks from payment (check or credit card - US funds only). We can supply any books published in India and many Indian and American magazines. Please visit us on the Internet. Manisha Navrang Inc., Post Box 10056, Blacksburg, VA 24062-0056. e-mail: navrang at bev.net, phone: (540) 961-2003 fax: (540) 961-4007 INDIAN MAGAZINES AND BOOKS - any Indian publications REGIONAL MAGAZINES - in many Indian languages US BOOKS FOR CHILDREN - 50% off published prices AMERICAN MAGAZINES - at prices you won't believe WWW at http://www.catalog.com/navrang From apandey at u.washington.edu Fri Jul 21 07:43:31 1995 From: apandey at u.washington.edu (Anshuman Pandey) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 00:43:31 -0700 Subject: Question regarding the Surya and Chandra Vamsas. Message-ID: <161227020082.23782.14858559746841846186.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Members, I am looking for information regarding the two vamsas, particularly any histories, myths, and lists which concern themselves with the origin of the vamsas. The libraries here do not have any volumes on the subject, let alone much on the topic of Indian ethnology, and I therefore will appreciate any information about the Surya and Chandra vamsas. Thank you in advance. Anshuman Pandey University of Washington Seattle, WA From B.Loturco at agora.stm.it Fri Jul 21 01:15:06 1995 From: B.Loturco at agora.stm.it (B.Loturco at agora.stm.it) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 01:15:06 +0000 Subject: zUlagava Message-ID: <161227020078.23782.4228319577220477965.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Could any of the distinguished members of the list suggest me a book or an article dealing with the Vedic sacrifice of the zUlagava? Thanks in advance. Bruno Lo Turco --- MMMR v3.60reg * Bruno Lo Turco From GGA03414 at niftyserve.or.jp Thu Jul 20 16:24:00 1995 From: GGA03414 at niftyserve.or.jp (Nobumi Iyanaga) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 01:24:00 +0900 Subject: Nisus Word Processor Message-ID: <161227020074.23782.7795929893129909952.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I use Nisus for several years and I am very satisfied by its features (though not so much with the newest version, Nisus Writer 4.0.7, which is too slow for my Mac IIci). But I never used it for a work of critical edition of text... There is a "Nisus mailing list": NISUS at Dartmouth.EDU *** To subscribe to this list: Send to: LISTSERV at listserv.dartmouth.edu Subject: subscribe Message: subscribe Nisus There is also a www homepage of Nisus Software: http://www.nisus-soft.com/~nisus/home.html I hope this can be of some help for you. Nobumi Iyanaga Tokyo, Japan From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Fri Jul 21 10:09:01 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 10:09:01 +0000 Subject: compact edition of Monier-Williams Message-ID: <161227020083.23782.2776117790254259048.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> edeltraud harzer clear said: > The Minjoksa Publishing Company, Chong Ko-Ku, > Chung Jin-Dong 208-1 > P.O.Box 1560 > Seoul, Korea > published a compact edition of the Sanskrit-English > Dictionary. I have not seen a copy. I tried to order > several copies last year for several of my students, > but encountered some difficulty because they did not > spell out their terms. Here is their fax > (02) 739-7565. Good luck. Edeltraud. > > The Japanese have a beautiful edition which is twice > the price of the Korean. But I do not have the Japanese > address here in my office. I recently contacted the Rinsen Book Co. Ltd. P O Box: Sakyo No. 8, Imadegawa-Kawabata, Sakyo-Ku, Kyoto 606, Japan. Cable: Rinsen, Kyoto FAX: 075-781-6168 hoping to get the little MW, but the leaflet they sent me didn't include it. They have other attractive items, though: Apte, Practical Skt-Eng Dict: Y 14,000 Das, Tibetan-English: Y 8,500 Jaeschke, Tibetan-English: Y 6,500 Chandra, Tibetan-Sanskrit: Y 24,272 Childers, Pali: Y 12,000 Edgerton, BHS Gr. & Dict. Y 22,000 Boehtlingk, Skt-Woert. Kuerzerer: Y 47,000 Schmidt, Nactraege zum SW: Y 12,000 Does anyone know if Rinsen really does MW, and if so, how much it costs? Or, Edeltraud, is it some other Japanese company? Dominik From mbose at unixg.ubc.ca Fri Jul 21 17:50:45 1995 From: mbose at unixg.ubc.ca (Mandakranta Bose) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 10:50:45 -0700 Subject: Basava Message-ID: <161227020089.23782.6552557345484448536.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Here is the full bibliographic reference to the text you are looking for. I have used it in Oxford: Basavaraja, Sivatattvaratnakara, ed.S.Narayanasvami Shastri, Vol.I-IV. Mysore, Oriental Research Institute, 1964- Mandakranta Bose, Department of Religious Studies, University of British Columbia, Vancouver. mbose at unixg.ubc.ca On Wed, 19 Jul 1995, Kenneth G. Zysk wrote: > > I should greatly appreciate it if someone could provide me with the > full bibliographic citation for the following textual edition: > > Basava, _S'ivatattvaratnaakara_ > > Many thanks, > Ken Zysk > > From ami0209 at rs1.rrz.Uni-Koeln.DE Fri Jul 21 13:51:38 1995 From: ami0209 at rs1.rrz.Uni-Koeln.DE (Johannes B. Tuemmers) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 15:51:38 +0200 Subject: Searching for WIND HORSE Message-ID: <161227020087.23782.9524709948150159230.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of the list, During my last visit to _my_ seminar-library in Bonn I couldn't find the "Wind Horse", _Proceedings of the North American Tibetological Society_, Vol. 1, 1981. A good friend of mine and expert in collecting articles from almost every kind of journal said, that even though he tried, he was unable to obtain this publication. My hope is, that some of you experts out there can help us (i.e. me and the library...). Is it possible to order copies still left somewhere, or is there a chance of getting a copy of this, maybe in exchange of copies of some other publication we might have but you don't? Thanks for reading. Any e-mail is appreciated. - Johannes B. Tuemmers MA - PS. While we are at it: any news about the new JIABS vol. ?? From jdunne at husc.harvard.edu Fri Jul 21 21:08:42 1995 From: jdunne at husc.harvard.edu (John Dunne) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 17:08:42 -0400 Subject: Compact Monier Williams Message-ID: <161227020091.23782.9834310625523230243.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> As has been mentioned, Jim Hartzell probably seeks the compact edition produced by Meicho Fukyu Kai, a publishing house located in Tokyo. A few years ago, I visited a friend in Japan to whom I mentioned my need for the compact Monier. I too was unsuccessful in locating an address, for the dictionary itself lists only the publisher's name. My friend, the head priest of a Jyoodoshyuu temple, had spent much of his youth as a delivery boy in Tokyo, and he assured me that we should be able to locate the publisher without much effort. In fact, our efforts took most of the afternoon. Not only did we encounter much difficulty in obtaining the address, but as with many addresses in Tokyo, it specified only a vague region and house number. My friend, referring again to his frantic days as a delivery boy, explained that only delivery boys and taxi drivers can reliably locate addresses in Tokyo. Well, we hopped into his car and proceeded to spend the next three hours searching for the publisher, only to discover that their official address was the home of a private person who seemed confused both by the notion that he was a publisher and our strange references to `sansukuritto.' At last, my friend's deliver-boy genius bloomed forth, and through a series of machinations which I cannot hope to describe, he managed to locate the publisher. Once again, we appeared to be in a private residence, but this time our appeals were answered with polite smiles and cups of tea. Finally, after they indicated that they were not exactly sure where the books were being kept, they eventually produced a copy and explained, "We don't sell very many of these." I wonder why. Unfortunately, I can no longer find the address of Meicho Fukyu Kai (if I ever had it). Even if you were to obtain it, Jim, I am not sure how successful you would be in obtaining a copy. As I recall, Michael Witzel had some trouble when he attempted to obtain this dictionary for some of his students (it is probably the most convenient dictionary for work on older Sanskrit materials). I believe that he managed in the end to get some copies from the publisher a few years ago. He might be able to help you with your query. In any case, Rinsen's compact Apte might serve your purposes equally well. As a resource for classical Sanskrit, Apte certainly equals Monier-Williams, and if you are reading philosophical Sanskrit, Apte is probably preferable. For the beginning student of classical (not vedic) Sanskrit, Monier-william's only significant advantage is that it lists derivative words separately. But for a scholar familiar with the derivation of these forms, Apte is more than adequate. If, however, you are working in Vedic or upani.sadic materials, Monier-Williams is more useful. You are probably already aware of the difference between the dictionaries, Jim, but I just wanted to reiterate them in case you had not considered the usefulness of the compact Apte. I have found it to be convenient and reasonably complete. The protective box in which Monier-Williams sits (mostly unused) on my shelf lists a price of 15,000 yen. The back of the dictionary lists numerous other works offered by the publisher (but no address!!). As has been mentioned, one of their publications is a compact B"ohtlingk-Roth. The price? A whopping 144,000 yen!!! Good luck! John Dunne Study of Religion Harvard University Original-Received: by bronze.ucs.indiana.edu PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:17:50 -0500 From: edeltraud harzer clear To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: compact edition of Monier-Williams Message-ID: <"mailhub.live:131870:950721211931"@liverpool.ac.uk> Dominik, I do not have a straightforward answer. I have a copy of the Japanese compact edition in front of me. On the reverse of the title page it says: Reprinted photographically in Japan by Akatsuki Art Printing Co., Ltd. Published by Oxford University Press, Tokyo. Distributed in Japan by Meicho Fukyu Kyokai K.K. I do have a catalogue, but this time it is in my Uni. office. And did I get my copy? I was lucky enough that somebody bought it for me while that person was in Japan. I will be gone for five weeks to England,etc. I try to get the info before I leave tomorrow, but I am not sure whether I can do it. Some of our Japanese colleagues may come to rescue. Cheers, Edeltraud. From thayashi at doshisha.ac.jp Fri Jul 21 12:01:55 1995 From: thayashi at doshisha.ac.jp (thayashi at doshisha.ac.jp) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 21:01:55 +0900 Subject: compact edition of Monier-Williams Message-ID: <161227020085.23782.12731226387652477443.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Does anyone know if Rinsen really does MW, and if so, how much it costs? >Or, Edeltraud, is it some other Japanese company? > >Dominik > > > It is not Rinsen (Kyoto) but Meicho Fukyukai Co., Ltd. (Tokyo 1986). I have a copy, but it does not have address, nor price on it (I don't recall it). Maybe someone else knows. The company has also published reprints of other standard works for Skt and Buddhist studies such as Bohtlingk-Roth, etc. hayashi From hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA Sat Jul 22 15:01:02 1995 From: hueckst at cc.UManitoba.CA (RAH) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 95 10:01:02 -0500 Subject: Req: Help justifying the teaching of Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227020094.23782.13814112766787267024.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Fellow Indologists, I have been asked to contribute an essay to a volume that will be entitled _Classics and the Modern Curriculum_. The word "classics" there is used in its broadest sense. The study of Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Arabic, Persian, Chinese, etc. will be all represented. I am one of two people who have been asked to hold up the Indic side of the project. Any help I receive from anyone will be greatly appreciated, and of course, if any of your ideas become incorporated in my essay, they will be duly footnoted. The classical languages of South Asia I define as Sanskrit, Prakrit, Old Dravidian, and Persian. We could maybe also include Apabhramsha and other Middle Indic languages. So, given such a definition of classics in South Asia, I am already feeling inadequate to the task. It's impossible for me to read all those languages, and even just within Sanskrit, I am not, nor can any one person be, a master of all the disciplines in which literature in Sanskrit has played an important part in the history of ideas. Nevertheless, here is my basic plan. I hope to show what a university misses by not having at least one Sanskritist on its faculty and Sanskrit offered in its curriculum. Unfortunately, I have only 20 pages in which to accomplish my goal. Johns Hopkins University Press has expressed interest in publishing the book, and they suggest that it would fit in their series on higher education, which focusses on curricular issues, and perhaps also in their series on ancient studies. So fellow "classicists" and perhaps university administrators would be the target readership. I hope and pray I can do a respectable job of it, and I look forward to your suggestions. If you think your comments are worth the attention of the readers of indology, then just post them to indology. Otherwise, you may also reply directly to me. Gratefully, Bob Hueckstedt Robert A. Hueckstedt, Associate Professor of Indic Languages Asian Studies Centre, 328 Fletcher Argue, University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba R3T 2N2 Canada email: hueckst at cc.umanitoba.ca fax 1 204-275-5781 phones 1 204-474-8964, 1 204-488-4797 From treich at midway.uchicago.edu Mon Jul 24 02:52:58 1995 From: treich at midway.uchicago.edu (treich at midway.uchicago.edu) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 95 21:52:58 -0500 Subject: Jaiminiya Asvamedhikaparvan Message-ID: <161227020096.23782.2533418644970721179.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indology Members, Can anyone help me find any edition of the Jaiminiya Asvamedhikaparvan? I know about its existence from Karmarkar's description in the "Introduction" to the Asvamedhikaparvan, pp. xxiv-xliv (in the BORI edition of the Mahabharata). Sukthankar also refers to it in his "Prolegomena" to the Adiparvan. The trouble is, neither of them gives any references. Any help will be appreciated. Tamar Reich MY email address is: treich at midway.uchicago.edu From magier at columbia.edu Mon Jul 24 13:28:35 1995 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 09:28:35 -0400 Subject: book for barter Message-ID: <161227020098.23782.17245528527569861895.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I've got an unneeded copy of Pt. Shridharshastri Pathak's Word Index to Patanjali's Vyakharana-Mahabhasya (Poona: Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, 1927. Government Oriental Series Class C, No. 1), 1150 pages, intact, well-bound, but a bit brittle. If anyone wants and has something nice to offer on exchange, contact me soon at magier at columbia.edu. David Magier From jnye at midway.uchicago.edu Mon Jul 24 18:50:38 1995 From: jnye at midway.uchicago.edu (james nye) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 13:50:38 -0500 Subject: Jaiminiya Asvamedhikaparvan Message-ID: <161227020104.23782.5324076197066053673.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In response to Tamar Reich's request earlier today: It appears the Library of Congress has two editions available on microfiche. Both should be available from the South Asia Microfilm Project collection at the Center for Research Libraries. One is the Sanskrit text. The other is the text with a Hindi comm. Copies of the OCLC records follow. In addition, the Sanskrit catalogs of the British Museum, India Office, and National Library of India list at least 9 other 19th- and early 20th-cent. editions. James Nye ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ACCESSION: 31711732 TITLE: Atha Srimajjaiminiyasvamedhaparvaprarambhah PLACE: Kalyananagaryam : PUBLISHER: "Laksmivenkatesvara" Mudranalaye, YEAR: 1932 PUB TYPE: Book FORMAT: 111 [i.e. 222] p. ; 17 x 33 cm. NOTES: In Sanskrit. Master microform held by: DLC. On Asvamedha sacrifice; portion of Mahabharata. Microfiche. New Delhi : Library of Congress Office ; Washington, D.C. : Library of Congress Photoduplication Service, 1994. 5 microfiches. ALT TITLE: Mahabharata. Asvamedhaparva. Jaiminiyasvamedhaparva. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ACCESSION: 31711729 TITLE: Atha Srimajjaminiyasvamedhaparva bhasatika sametam pra PLACE: Kalyananagaryam : PUBLISHER: "Laksmivenkatesvara" Mudranalaye, YEAR: 1932 PUB TYPE: Book FORMAT: 1 v. (various pagings) ; 17 x 33 cm. NOTES: Hindi and Sanskrit. Master microform held by: DLC. On Asvamedha sacrifice, text with Hindi translation; portion of Mahabharata. Microfiche. New Delhi : Library of Congress Office ; Washington, D.C. : Library of Congress Photoduplication Service, 1994. 12 microfiches. ALT TITLE: Mahabharata. Asvamedaparva. Jaiminiyasvamedhaparva. Hindi & Sanskrit. > Dear Indology Members, > > Can anyone help me find any edition of the Jaiminiya Asvamedhikaparvan? > I know about its existence from Karmarkar's description in the > "Introduction" to the Asvamedhikaparvan, pp. xxiv-xliv (in the BORI edition > of the Mahabharata). Sukthankar also refers to it in his "Prolegomena" to > the Adiparvan. The trouble is, neither of them gives any references. > Any help will be appreciated. > > Tamar Reich > > MY email address is: treich at midway.uchicago.edu From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Mon Jul 24 15:23:05 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 15:23:05 +0000 Subject: World Sanskrit Conference details Message-ID: <161227020100.23782.6887734973460689489.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Here is the full text of the ... FIRST ANNOUNCEMENT ================== We are pleased to announce that the Xth World Sanskrit Conference will be held in Bangalore, India, from 3 to 9 January 1997. this will be the third World Sanskrit Conference to be held in India (New Delhi, 1972 and Varanasi, 1981) and will commemorate the Silver Jubilee Year of the International Association for Sanskrit Studies (IASS). Venue The Xth World Sanskrit Conference will be held in the Taralabalu Kendra, Bangalore, India. The Kendra has a modern research facility designed to promote Indian cultural education. Bangalore, the capital of Karnataka, is hailed as India's `garden city.' The climate during the month of January will be particularly pleasant, making it an ideal time to visit. Subject Areas We solicit papers on the following subject areas: 1. Sanskrit and Regional Languages 2. Vyakarana and Linguistics 3. Modern Sanskrit Literature 4. Sanskrit and Computers 5. Veda and Vedangas 6. Epics and Puranas 7. Agamas and Tantras 8. Religion and Philosophy 9. Architecture, Fine Arts, and Aesthetics 10. Classical Sanskrit Literature 11. Scientific Sanskrit Literature 12. Dharma Sastra and Artha Sastra 13. Manuscripts and Historical Documents 14. Sanskrit and the Environment. Papers We invite you to submit titles for papers using the enclosed response form. We request that you submit a draft of the paper (minimum 5 pages) by 15th May 1996 along with a bibliography and a 300-word abstract. Should your paper be accepted, we will print this abstract in the conference catalogue. The final paper should be submitted to the panel of chairpersons upon arrival at the conference. Registration Fees 1. Pre-registration fee (due on or before 31 July 1996): a. For those whose emoluments are more than Rs. 15,000/month Rs.400 b. For those whose emoluments are more than Rs. 15,000/month US $100 c. For students and scholars superannuated from service 50% concession on the above. (Please note: only 75% of the registration fee will be refunded in the event of cancellation) 2. Regular registration fee (after July 1996): For those in category `a' Rs. 450 For those in category `b' US $125 Organizing Committee Hon President: Dr. Shivamurthy Swamy Sirigere, Karnataka, India President: Sri H.D. Devegowda, Chief Minister of Karnataka, India Secretary: Prof. S. Settar Dharwar, Karnataka, India Members Chief Secretary, Govt of Karnataka, Bangalore Vice Chancellor, Bangalore University, Karnataka Vice Chancellor, Mysore University, Karnataka Vice Chancellor, Karnataka University, Karnataka Vice Chancellor, Mangalore University, Karnataka Vice Chancellor, Kuvempu University, Karnataka Vice Chancellor, Gulbarga University, Karnataka Vice Chancellor, Kannada University, Karnataka Vice Chancellor, Agricultural University, Bangalore Vice Chancellor, Agricultural University, Dharwar Prof K. Krishnamurthy, Mysore Prof K.T. Pandurangi, Bangalore IASS BOARD MEMBERS President: Prof. R.K. Sharma, India Gen. Secretary: Prof. S. Lienhard, Sweden Treasurer: Prof. Colette Caillat, France Regional Directors: Prof. Oscar Botto, Italy Prof. T.Y. Elizarenkova, Russia Prof. Minoru Hara, Japan Prof. Stanley Insler, USA Prof. Juan Miguel De Mora, Mexico Prof. Albrecht Wezler, Germany Consultative Committee: Prof A. N. Aklujkar, Canada Prof. Greg Bailey, Australia Prof. Sh Bira, Mongolian Peoples Republic Prof Dr Chr M Byrski, Poland Prof Carlos Alberto da Fonseca, Brazil Prof . J. C. Heesterman, Netherlands Dr Jauk-Pinnak, Yogoslavia Prof. Bernhaerd Koelver, Germany Prof. Lokesh Chandra, India Prof. Gerhard Oberhammer, Austria Dr Mahesh Raj Pant, Nepal Prof. Asko Parpola, Finland Dr Vijay Rajopadhyay, India Prof. T. S. Rukmani, South Africa Prof G. Wojtilla, Hungary Prof. Huang Xin-Chauan, China Note: Please return the enclosed `Response Form' to this address without fail, which will greatly help us in the preparations for the conference. Secretariat Xth World Sanskrit Conference TARALABALU KENDRA 3rd Main, 2nd Block, RT Nagar BANGALORE - 560 032, [India] Tel: +91-(0)80-3430017 +91-(0)80-3332759 Fax: +91-(0)80-3334541 -- From torella at rmcisadu.cisadu.uniroma1.it Mon Jul 24 16:29:27 1995 From: torella at rmcisadu.cisadu.uniroma1.it (torella at rmcisadu.cisadu.uniroma1.it) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 17:29:27 +0100 Subject: sorting Skt words on Mac Message-ID: <161227020102.23782.10161911001030861266.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dr.Ando, I have been concerned with the same problem as you. Could you inform me about possible solutions to it as advised by other list-members? Thanking you, Raffaele Torella R. Torella Prof. of Sanskrit, University of Rome. From hgroover at qualitas.com Tue Jul 25 14:49:02 1995 From: hgroover at qualitas.com (Henry Groover) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 10:49:02 -0400 Subject: Sorting Devanagari text -Reply Message-ID: <161227020112.23782.17515823643013144656.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I'm not entirely convinced that sorting Sanskrit is an intractable problem. Challenging but not too difficult. I'm making a few assumptions here. 1. The source text is Roman characters with diacritics. One project I worked on translated diacritical input into fully composed Devanagari (with all the conjuncts, NOT a Hindi font) so I know it can be done (and I believe some Sanskrit / Hindi word processors operate in a similar manner). 2. A standard lexical order is used. I don't have a dictionary handy but I seem to recall that anusvara-inflected varnas come after the identical varnas without anusvara. This would yield the following order for these syllables (not sure I've got the 7-bit system down): a'sa a.m'sa.h aha a.mha A'sa A.m'sa kasa ka.msa khasa Implementing a sort algorithm then simply requires that there is a flag or bitmap component for the varna for anusvara or visarga. The algorithm would also need to compare conjuncts on a syllabic (varna) basis (but that's fairly obvious). The original suggestion of converting to an intermediate system puts us on the right track; in fact, it's further simplified by the two-dimensional arrangement of the Devanagari aksaras. Vowels and diphthongs are represented numerically and combined bitwise with the distinct flag values for anusvara, visarga or candrabindu. If we assign hex values 01, 02 and 04 for anusvara, candrabindu and visarga, then use hex 08 for a, 10 for A, 18 for i, 20 for I, up to 70 for au (still have one bit to spare) and A, B, C, D, E for the first row (ka kha ga gha 'na) F, G, H, I, J for the second (ca cha ja jha ~na), etc. we would get the following for the above examples (note that we need to preserve case sensitivity): a'sa = 08d08 a.m'sa.h = 09d0C aha = 08g08 a.mha = 09g08 A'sa = 10d08 A.m'sa = 11d08 kasa = A08e08 ka.msa = A09e08 khasa = B08e08 The above examples make it obvious how the sort works; numerals are lexically lower than letters, caps lower than lowercase letters. Handling conjuncts fits right in, since by restricting hex values to 7 bits we've ensured that hex values always start with a numeral. Hence: dvyak.sara = Rcz08Ae08a08 sa'nk.sobhya = f08EAe68XZ08 mUrdhnyA = Y30aSTz10 If anyone's interested I can produce some C source code that will do this. It would read a list, convert it to this intermediate format, sort the key values, and write it back sorted. I apologize for the profuse computerese, but as Samuel Clemens once said (more or less), "I apologize for the 5-page letter; I didn't have time to write a short one." Henry Groover Hgroover at Qualitas.com.us >>> 07/25/95 01:54pm >>> ... However, it is clear that sorting Sanskrit may present more difficulties, as mentioned by Gerard Huet, than sorting Hindi. Also as we all seem to use different Devanagari fonts (and encodings) and different Roman transliteration font encodings it seems that the problem of how to sort Devanagari will be around for a long time! Peter Friedlander From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Tue Jul 25 12:08:22 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 12:08:22 +0000 Subject: Computation of Sankara Message-ID: <161227020109.23782.15717096183492320298.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> David Dargie said: > > Presently I am enrolled as a PhD student at the University of Queensland, > Australia. My topic involves a 'computational linguistic' approach to > Sanskrit texts, particularly commentarial texts such as Sankara's > commentaries and works of similar vintage and style. > Delighted to hear of another Sanskritist in Australia! The discussion about Sankara wasn't really meant, I think, to say that too much has been done on him. Sankara's vedanta is still a very rich and worthwhile area of study, in my view. I have always, too, thought that the corpus of Sankara's commentaries were an ideal case for developing some authorship criteria using the methods of computational linguistics. You have a large enough corpus of material that everyone agrees is by the man himself, so you can develop some kind of "fingerprint." Then there are important texts whose authorship people wonder about, like Upadesasahasri etc. It would be extremely interesting to have some statistics about congruence (or otherwise) of these texts with the commentarial corpus. Finally, Sankara is so important that any real results in this area will be extremely valuable. Good project! Keep us posted. Dominik From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Tue Jul 25 11:19:36 1995 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 12:19:36 +0100 Subject: Apology to the group Message-ID: <161227020107.23782.4193954158762201204.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > >Finally, I do have some advice for those trying to sort Sanskrit words in >roman transliteration sets on computers. The answer is an artificial 'third >party' transliteration, consisting of alpha-numeric characters (eg. a0, a1, >a2, ..., b0, b1, ..., c0, ...) that CAN be sorted by the computer. The >trick is to 'global change' each of the characters of the text or list into >the correct order in the alpha-numeric 'dummy aphabet'. However, the order >in which the global changes are made is crucial to every character being >transliterated correctly. I will work out this process with those who have >already requested help and post suggestions to the list at a later stage. David, this seems absolutely brilliant! There are, by the way, programs that can make such a search and replace operation very, very easy! The Lexa suite, which can be obtained from the University of Bergen, contains such a program (LREPLACE) which I constantly use to convert from one transliteration system to another. LREPLACE uses a list file with the search item in one column and the exchange item in another column. If you work out the sorting order for a dummy sort, using LREPLACE (or a similar program) makes the whole process very quick and easy. Lexa (version 6) can be obtained from the Norwegian Computing Centre for the Humanities, Harald H}rfagres gt. 31, 5007 Bergen, Norway, tel: +47 55 21 22 54/55/56; fax +47 55 32 26 56. Email: icame at hd.uib.no. It costs about NOK 700,- which includes several (necessary) manuals. The program as such is public domain and is, I believe, available from a server in Bergen, but you need the manuals. Best regards, Lars Martin Lars Martin Fosse Research Fellow Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From Gerard.Huet at inria.fr Tue Jul 25 11:08:29 1995 From: Gerard.Huet at inria.fr (Gerard Huet) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 13:08:29 +0200 Subject: Sorting sanskrit words in roman transliteration Message-ID: <161227020110.23782.17977910332586502512.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> With regards to David Dargie's message: The proposed scheme, of encoding each transliteration code into a unique ASCII character in the alphabetical order, will work only if the anusvAra is used solely its its "original" role. When the anusvAra is used as a substitute for a nasal, the alphabetical order of this nasal ought to be used, and this information is context-sensitive. A similar difficulty occurs with the visarga, which ought to be sorted as the corresponding sibilant when it denotes a sibilant attenuation. I would thus recommend that roman transliterations use the anusvAra and the visarga ONLY when they are original, in which case they have their own alphabetical order, between the diphtongs and the consonants. If their non-original use is required, this may be effected by a further processing pass on the text, by a set of pattern-matching rules looking at some context (typically a vowel followed by a nasal followed by a consonant). Another care must be taken when the roman transliteration scheme uses a notation for the accent, or a notation for the origin of a long vowel in a compound word, like in Monier-Williams: such notation ought to be erased from the source text before the sorting operation. It would be nice if indology scholars would agree on a standard non-ambiguous one-to-one encoding of devanagari into ASCII characters, from which all usual transliteration schemes could be easily macro-generated in linear time by finite automata transducers available in most computer systems or text editors. Gerard Huet >?From P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk 25 95 Jul EDT 13:50:00 Date: 25 Jul 95 13:50:00 EDT From: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk Subject: re: Sorting Devanagari text Reply-To: P.Friedlander at wellcome.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The sorting of Devanagari text into dictionary order is a subject I had to address in work I have done on creating catalogues of Hindi manuscripts. I also translated the text into an artificial third party transliteration where I found that each 'letter' in the sort needed to represent three aspects of the letter, the sort sequences of: its base value, initial vowel or consonant, a mAtrA value and a nasality value. Using these values for each aksara in the Devanagari a sort string can be generated which can be sorted normally. I wrote a Turbo Pascal utility program that sorts Hindi text in Devanagari (Typed in a Devanagari font called MaharastriMedium from BrahmiType) into dictionary order. If anyone else happens to use this font and wants to sort Hindi (and *maybe* it would work for Sanskrit) text I'd be happy to make the utility available to them. However, it is clear that sorting Sanskrit may present more difficulties, as mentioned by Gerard Huet, than sorting Hindi. Also as we all seem to use different Devanagari fonts (and encodings) and different Roman transliteration font encodings it seems that the problem of how to sort Devanagari will be around for a long time! Peter Friedlander From dargie at lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au Tue Jul 25 06:18:30 1995 From: dargie at lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au (dargie at lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 16:18:30 +1000 Subject: Apology to the group Message-ID: <161227020105.23782.474204859362684006.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> During the past four or five months of my subscription to this list I have taken the "Softly, softly ..." approach to this discussion group, so that I could learn initially as much as possible about discussion list protocol and specific 'house rules'. Such was the advice of a colleague of mine at the University of Queensland: that first I learn the protocol and thence introduce myself. And as the months passed I felt that I was ready to take part in this interesting forum. So I began to prepare in my mind an introductory address that reflected the level of commitment that I have to Indological studies and my sense of gratitude for being able to take part in future discussions with many esteemed colleagues. You might imagine my surprise then, when I receieved mail from Dominik and Lars Martin last week informing me that a little test message of mine, directed to the machine next door, was delivered to each of the subscribers of Indology. Therefore, preceding my maiden speech, please accept my apologies for unnecessary disk space, eye strain, or annoyance brought about by my bumbling. (-: Brief Biography: After becoming disillusioned with a career in economics during the mid-eighties, I found great pleasure and reward in studying Oriental and Indian philosophy and religion. To my parent's bewilderment, I pursued such studies with increasing seriousness. I found (quite to my surprise!) that studying Sanskrit (as a second language) improved my comprehension and expression in English (my first language). Since then, Sanskrit has become one of my obsessions. Presently I am enrolled as a PhD student at the University of Queensland, Australia. My topic involves a 'computational linguistic' approach to Sanskrit texts, particularly commentarial texts such as Sankara's commentaries and works of similar vintage and style. On the list, I have been very interested to read the fonts/encoding discussion and the critical editions discussion. Also, the few complaints of undue attention given to Sankara's advaita, and to vedanta in general, applies clearly in my case. Finally, I do have some advice for those trying to sort Sanskrit words in roman transliteration sets on computers. The answer is an artificial 'third party' transliteration, consisting of alpha-numeric characters (eg. a0, a1, a2, ..., b0, b1, ..., c0, ...) that CAN be sorted by the computer. The trick is to 'global change' each of the characters of the text or list into the correct order in the alpha-numeric 'dummy aphabet'. However, the order in which the global changes are made is crucial to every character being transliterated correctly. I will work out this process with those who have already requested help and post suggestions to the list at a later stage. Regards to all those who maintain/utilise the Indology list David ***************************************************************** David Dargie Studies in Religion University of Queensland email: dargie at lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au Phone: +61 7 365 3165 ***************************************************************** From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Tue Jul 25 18:04:40 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 18:04:40 +0000 Subject: WEB page Message-ID: <161227020124.23782.3209356731431411628.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Has the new INDOLOGY Web page been used by anyone? Opinions? Dominik -- INDOLOGY: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html From mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com Wed Jul 26 01:26:08 1995 From: mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com (mani at srirangam.esd.sgi.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 18:26:08 -0700 Subject: Replying to Indology messages Message-ID: <161227020122.23782.14138675408076289617.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> May I request the Indology list administrator to change the Reply-To: field that is added to all Indology mail messages? We have far too often seen personal messages go out to everyone on Indology. This may not bother some, but I already receive far too much email, and the less the better. If Reply-To: contained the address of the sender, we would avoid this problem. Thanks, Mani From mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk Tue Jul 25 21:16:58 1995 From: mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 22:16:58 +0100 Subject: Sorting Devanagari text Message-ID: <161227020114.23782.168044265817383593.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There is no major problem with sorting text in diacritics on the PC or on a larger computer running the Oxford Concordance Program to produce a wordlist, index or concordance. I have used this for Pali text and was able to solve almost all problems. One can define one's own alphabetical order and also define groups of letters to be treated as single letters e.g. tx can be treated as a single letter in the alphabet and placed as the first retroflex consonant. If it was really necessary, even the more difficult problems such as those mentioned with anusvaara, etc. could be dealt with by assigning special letters or by replacing pairs of letters temporarily with something else before sorting. In practice, however, with smaller texts it might be simpler to just edit the result with a word processor with drag and drop. Unfortunately, however, I have not yet found anything as good for the Mac. Lance Cousins MANCHESTER, UK Email: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk From B.Loturco at agora.stm.it Wed Jul 26 02:24:17 1995 From: B.Loturco at agora.stm.it (B.Loturco at agora.stm.it) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 02:24:17 +0000 Subject: zUlagava Message-ID: <161227020118.23782.6554502629976613104.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Could any of the distinguished members of the list suggest me a book or an article dealing with the Vedic sacrifice of zUlagava? Thanks in advance. Bruno Lo Turco --- MMMR v3.60reg * Bruno Lo Turco From magier at columbia.edu Wed Jul 26 12:30:22 1995 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 08:30:22 -0400 Subject: book for barter Message-ID: <161227020126.23782.17740751537970500085.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > Hi, > > What would you like in return ? Would a heartfelt thankyou do ? > > Sugandha > > > >I've got an unneeded copy of Pt. Shridharshastri Pathak's Word Index > >to Patanjali's Vyakharana-Mahabhasya (Poona: Bhandarkar Oriental > >Research Institute, 1927. Government Oriental Series Class C, No. 1), > >1150 pages, intact, well-bound, but a bit brittle. If anyone wants and > >has something nice to offer on exchange, contact me soon at > >magier at columbia.edu. > > > >David Magier > > > > > > > > > Sugandha, I'll hang onto the book and see if any libraries want to exchange anything important for this. If not, I'd be happy to just give it to you. Why don't you check back with me in about a week (to remind me), to see how it turned out? Thanks. David From magier at columbia.edu Wed Jul 26 12:33:49 1995 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 08:33:49 -0400 Subject: book for barter Message-ID: <161227020128.23782.8812647174715150202.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Ooops! Apologies all for my clear violation of 'netiquette': that should have been a private message. :-| David Magier From magier at columbia.edu Wed Jul 26 12:35:56 1995 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 08:35:56 -0400 Subject: Replying to Indology messages Message-ID: <161227020130.23782.13571768948897661417.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > > May I request the Indology list administrator > to change the Reply-To: field that is added > to all Indology mail messages? We have far too > often seen personal messages go out to everyone > on Indology. This may not bother some, but I > already receive far too much email, and the > less the better. If Reply-To: contained the > address of the sender, we would avoid this > problem. > > Thanks, > Mani > > Having just this moment committed this error, I heartily endorse Mani's wise suggestion. David Magier From tbryson at harvard.edu Wed Jul 26 13:05:50 1995 From: tbryson at harvard.edu (tbryson at harvard.edu) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 09:05:50 -0400 Subject: WEB page Message-ID: <161227020131.23782.8770735434111734648.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Has the new INDOLOGY Web page been used by anyone? Opinions? > >Dominik >-- Very nice. It immediately expanded my knowledge of relevant resources. Tim Bryson Tim Bryson, Ph.D. Administrator, Center for the Study of World Religions Lecturer in the History of Religions, Harvard Divinity School Harvard University 42 Francis Ave. Cambridge, MA 02138 email: tbryson at harvard.edu phone: 617-495-4487 fax: 617-496-5411 From sjohar at library.usyd.edu.au Wed Jul 26 00:18:47 1995 From: sjohar at library.usyd.edu.au (sjohar at library.usyd.edu.au) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 10:18:47 +1000 Subject: book for barter Message-ID: <161227020116.23782.1501230543299756146.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hi, What would you like in return ? Would a heartfelt thankyou do ? Sugandha >I've got an unneeded copy of Pt. Shridharshastri Pathak's Word Index >to Patanjali's Vyakharana-Mahabhasya (Poona: Bhandarkar Oriental >Research Institute, 1927. Government Oriental Series Class C, No. 1), >1150 pages, intact, well-bound, but a bit brittle. If anyone wants and >has something nice to offer on exchange, contact me soon at >magier at columbia.edu. > >David Magier > > > From pslvax!sadhu at UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 26 17:23:09 1995 From: pslvax!sadhu at UCSD.EDU (pslvax!sadhu at UCSD.EDU) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 10:23:09 -0700 Subject: WEB page Message-ID: <161227020135.23782.9192825394884906660.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> / FROM: Dominik Wujastyk , Jul 26 13:16 1995 | ABOUT: WEB page | | Has the new INDOLOGY Web page been used by anyone? Opinions? | | Dominik | -- | INDOLOGY: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html | | | \ END: Dominik Wujastyk yes, i thought it was nice. suggestions ? i'd like to see an archive of all old indology email sometime, with a search engine . perhaps, one of these days, eh? aum sadhu From PHIL029 at csc.canterbury.ac.nz Wed Jul 26 01:26:15 1995 From: PHIL029 at csc.canterbury.ac.nz (PHIL029 at csc.canterbury.ac.nz) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 13:26:15 +1200 Subject: Thank you. Message-ID: <161227020120.23782.12913668734420480054.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would just like to thank all of those individuals on the Indology discussion group who so kindly sent me their thoughts on the question of dating Heesterman's 'axial-breakthrough' - thanks to your advice, I feel that I am now in a position to tackle the theories of Heesterman with some confidence. Thanks again, Steven Columbus. From breusch at students.wisc.edu Wed Jul 26 18:30:40 1995 From: breusch at students.wisc.edu (breusch at students.wisc.edu) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 13:30:40 -0500 Subject: WEB page Message-ID: <161227020137.23782.14646787528394041466.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I think the Indology Web page is great. I have downloaded one of Prof. Smith's enhanced MBh Parvas, but I haven't had the time yet to fix the diacritics with the Find & Replace command (I'm a Mac user). From HaroldA at eworld.com Wed Jul 26 23:31:09 1995 From: HaroldA at eworld.com (HaroldA at eworld.com) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 16:31:09 -0700 Subject: An unsolicited inquiry. Message-ID: <161227020140.23782.9954672229816951538.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > Two elementary questions: (1) What is the best introductory text for > learning to read Sanskrit and "Try "Teach Yourself Sanskrit" by Michael Coulson. Published by Teach Youself Books, New York, 1976. This book is particularly useful if you are interested in Kalidasa, as most of the quotes are taken from him. Daniel Baum Jerusalem" Although I have tried several times to teach myself foreign languages, I have never gotten very far before being distracted by other interests and obligations. Unless you are far more diligent than I, the best thing for you to do would be take a course in Sanskrit at your university. That said, let me second Daniel Baum's recommendation of Coulson's "Teach Yourself Sanskrit." If you do decide to use it, I would suggest working your way through it at least twice. The first time skip the English to Sanskrit exercises, which are quite difficult. If you feel that you need more Sanskrit to English practice, then translate the answers to the English to Sanskrit exercises at the back of the book from Sanskrit back to English. Then go through the book a second time, doing the English to Sanskrit exercises in the proper order. You might also be interested in the following post: "FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN LEARNING SANSKRIT The following two organizations offer correspondence/ audio cassette-based courses: 1. Corresponde course Hindu Seva Pratishthana Girinagar, Bangalore 560 085, India Tel. 011-91-80-661-3052 Duration of course: 2 years; consists of 4 parts, each for 6 months Minimum age: 16 years Audio cassettes are also available. 2. Album of audio cassettes of sanskrit lessons for beginners Through the support provided by Sanskrit Education Society, Madras 600018, an album of audio cassettes and printed literature have been prepared for beginners by and can be obtained from: Mr. R. Sundaracharlu, 18 Narasimha Puram, Mylapore, Madras 600004, India Tel. 011-91-44-493-6133." By the way, there's no need to "apologize for interrupting the current discussions on the group." I can assure you that they are often interrupted for far more trivial and irrelevant matters. Good luck in your study of Sanskrit Harold F. Arnold (Arjuna) From aditya at mail-e1a.megaweb.com Wed Jul 26 18:05:21 1995 From: aditya at mail-e1a.megaweb.com (Aditya, the Hindu Skeptic) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 18:00:21 -0005 Subject: WEB page Message-ID: <161227020139.23782.6442993266064123742.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I visited it today and I find it very informative. I liked all the links that you have put in. I even visited my alma mater, Univ of Penn where Dr Gambhir has a whole set of literature on some one interested in learning Hindi. I could not find his email address otherwise I would have written to him also.> .oooO Have a nice day ( ) Oooo. -----------------------\ (---( )--------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ http://pages.prodigy.com/FL/aditya ************************************************************************* Aditya Mishra | The opinions expressed herein are absolutely * Phone/FAX 305-746-0442 | not immutable and might have already changed * Internet: aditya at gate.net| by time you read them due to the new evidence* Prodigy: TVDS96A | or data that has come to my attention. * ************************************************************************* From dmbaum at shani.net Wed Jul 26 17:05:08 1995 From: dmbaum at shani.net (Daniel Baum) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 18:05:08 +0100 Subject: An unsolicited inquiry. Message-ID: <161227020133.23782.6760009031469968512.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > Two elementary questions: (1) What is the best introductory text for > learning to read Sanskrit and Try "Teach Yourself Sanskrit" by Michael Coulson. Published by Teach Youself Books, New York, 1976. This book is particularly useful if you are interested in Kalidasa, as most of the quotes are taken from him. Daniel Baum Jerusalem From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Thu Jul 27 10:16:12 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 10:16:12 +0000 Subject: WEB page Message-ID: <161227020142.23782.12127758835655945438.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sadhunathan Nadesan said: > | Has the new INDOLOGY Web page been used by anyone? Opinions? > yes, i thought it was nice. suggestions ? i'd like to see an archive > of all old indology email sometime, with a search engine . perhaps, > one of these days, eh? Sadhu, this has been available for several years. Bad publicity on my part obviously. :-( It is even available via the new INDOLOGY Web page. Go to "other stuff of interest", select the INDOLOGY Gopher (Liverpool), and take it from there. Dominik From gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de Thu Jul 27 14:23:43 1995 From: gor05 at rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (gor05) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 16:23:43 +0200 Subject: "RE: INDOLOGY WEB PAGE Message-ID: <161227020144.23782.5887998059719176461.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dominik, In response to your question concerning the new INDOLOGY Web page - Just tried it for the first time today and found it very informative: SUPER! John Peterson From GGA03414 at niftyserve.or.jp Thu Jul 27 13:41:00 1995 From: GGA03414 at niftyserve.or.jp (Nobumi Iyanaga) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 22:41:00 +0900 Subject: Sorting Devanagari text Message-ID: <161227020146.23782.6895071886573974806.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am moderating a little electronic discussion group dealing with the issues related to the use of computer in the oriental studies in general (this discussion group has just been created this month in a Japanese commercial BBS named "NiftyServe"). There, I talked about this thread yesterday -- and a friend of mine replied today saying that a free application which makes an index of the words of sanskrit texts exists in Japan. According to his posting, this application makes a sorted index of words, and supports several transliteration systems, among which that of the Kyoto University and Harvard University (KH system). An example of the result: [a] a(2) [3] 11 21 akAGkSaM(1) [3] 17 akSa(1) [3] 22 akSa..pAda.upadiSTam(1) [3] 22 agni(1) [2] 21 agni..hotraM(1) [2] 21 aGga(2) [3] 10 [4] 5* Numeral in parenthesis = frequency numeral in square brackets = page other numeral = line This application was created for a particular type of personal computers popular in Japan (NEC 9800 series), but must work also in DOS machines in general (but the author, Mr. Mitsuyuki Shimizu, is not sure on this point, according to my friend). I myself am a Mac user and have never used this application (moreover, I have no special knowledge on the computer science...). But anyway, I am going to write to our discussion group to say that this kind of software is needed by the international community of indologists (and buddhologists, etc.) and should be made available from anywhere in the world (currently, this application is available only in one Japanese commercial BBS named "PC-VAN"). Best wishes. Nobumi Iyanaga Tokyo, Japan (GGA03414 at niftyserve.or.jp / n-iyanag at cc.win.or.jp) P.S. I visited the new INDOLOGY Web page and I find it really excellent. Thank you very much! >?From THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV 27 1995 Jul EST 10:18:10 Date: 27 Jul 1995 10:18:10 EST Reply-To: THRASHER From: ALLEN W THRASHER Subject: COULSON'S TEXTBOOK On Coulson's "Teaching Yourself Sanskrit." I taught elementary Sanskrit a year or two using it. I would have to review all the textbooks currently available before I ventured which is the best overall, but I would say that the most useful aspect of it is that it teaches first the constructions that are actually used the most in classical Sanskrit (e.g. passives come earlier than in previous textbooks, and so do participial constructions). On the other hand, its taking its examples mostly from kavya has left it with a vocabulary that doesn't represent the core vocabulary of Sanskrit literature as a whole as well as other textbooks; a number of words scarcely appear outside of kavya, and the student interested in epics, puranas, philosophy-theology, astronomy, medicine, etc. is left with a weaker core vocabulary at the end of the year, not enough words for "horse, lotus, intelligence, liberation," and the like. Allen Thrasher athr at loc.gov From kalyans at ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 28 12:27:52 1995 From: kalyans at ix.netcom.com (kalyans at ix.netcom.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 05:27:52 -0700 Subject: Etyma: maru = desert, water, shore Message-ID: <161227020149.23782.15732453978257391618.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Maru is the Sanskrit name of the desert that lies between the Indus-Sarasvati river valleys of south Asia. It is also called thar in India and thal in Pakistan. For a maritime civilization, a zone exterior to the habitation is the marsh, the inundated area, and by extension, the sea. The recent geological studies and analysis of satellite images show the tracts of sub-soil water-channels in the thar desert and the channels of the dry-beds of the 'lost' sarasvati river which merge with the hakra [(cf. sAgara = ocean (Sanskrit)] channels in to the Rann of Kutch and the possibility that these zones supported agriculture and hence, habitations in ancient times (circa 3000 B.C.) These analyses add a new significance to the interpretation of the term 'maru' as marsh-land; cf., marutam = agricultural tracts (Sangam Tamil). Is there a proto-south asian (indic) root word which explains the word: maru = desert? also, ocean-shore (rann)? (1) SEMANTIC CLUSTER: DESERT The proto-dravidian/indo-aryan forms are found in etyma with the semantic cluster = land boundary: maryA = boundary (Sanskrit); mariyAdA = boundary, limit, shore (Pali); varampu, varappu = limit, boundary; a low ridge or bank to retain water in fields for irrigation (Tamil); barangayI = borough or county in the Philippines (Tagalog); barhA, barhetA = land of a township or village farthest from the inhabited portion, constituting the third class of land (Hindi -central and upper doab); baruA, barwA = sandy soil of inferior quality, a mixture of sand and clay (Hindi). (2) SEMANTIC CLUSTER: WATER/OCEAN A semantic cluster = water/shore is found in the following lexemes: bAr = water (Hindi); vAri = water (Sanskrit); bArAn = rain (Hindi); bArAni = land watered by rain (Hindi); bharu = sea (Pali, Sanskrit); maru = desert; sand-desert (Pali); mariyAdA = shore (Pali); [cf. Indo-European lexemes for sea: mare (Latin); muir (Irish); marei (Gothic); (are-)morica (Gaulish); mArEs (Lithuanian); morje (Slavonic). Jean Przyluski, in VaruNa, god of the sea and the sky (JRAS, July 1931, pp. 613-622) provides an etymological excursus to reconcile the occurrence of similar-sounding words in the north-western Indo-European dialects and also in Indo-Aryan by suggesting a proto-Austro-Asiatic root for the words. For e.g., he suggests "the non-Aryan word bharu, like its Sanskrit synonym kaccha, signifies low-lying land, shore, swamp; and, in fact, the compound bharu-kaccha designates a region adjoining the sea and the capital of that region. bharu(kaccha) and maru(bhUmi) form part of the geographical nomenclature of the mahAbhArata... After the tIrthas of the Sindhi the 'Bengali' recension (of dig-varNana of the rAmAyaNa) names maru and anumaru, referring probably to the deserts near the lower-course of the Indus. In the different recensions of the rAmAyaNa the description of the western region ends with the mountain asta 'the sun-setting', where is erected the palace of varuNa. This curious indication is in perfect agreement with 'Geographical Catalogue of the Yakshas in the mahAmayUrI" (ed. Sylvain Levi, Journal Asiatique, 1915, I, pp. 35 sqq.). In verse 17 we read -- bharuko bharukaccheshu... that is to say-- 'the yaksha bharuka dwells among the people of bharukaccha.' Now one of the two Chinese translators of this catalogue has rendered bharuka by shoei t'ien 'god of the water', which suggests varuNa". (3) SEMANTIC CLUSTER: OCEAN/SHORE/LOW-LYING LAND Przyluski hypothesizes a proto-indic root: bar; enlarged to bara (Sumerian) and baru (Austro-Asiatic), and by addition of the suffix -na, to get baruna, which is close to the Vedic varuNa. He also suggests that in certain austro-asiatic languages the initial undergoes complete reduction, e.g. Bahnar Ar, or. Delitzsch (Sumerisches Glossar, pp. 64-5) assigns the following semantic values to bar: (i) on the outside, outside; hence, bara = out, away; (ii) free space, desert (contrasted with human settlements); hence three derivatives in Sumerian: gu-bar-ra = free space, steppe, desert; ur-bar-ra = jackal; sgga-bar-ra = wild goat. Does this agreement between austro-asiatic and sumerian posit a palaeo-asiatic radical: bar? The austro-asiatic words cited by Przyluski are: baroh = low-lying country, sea-shore, sea (Malay); baruh = plain, flatland; baruk, barok = shore; bAruh = sea (dialects of Malay peninsula); Ar = marsh, swampy district; or = low-lying damp terrain near to watercourses (Bahnar); [cf. haor = delta marsh-land (Bengali); bahr = stretch of water(Gueze or classic Ethiopian); baraha = desert (Amharic)]; "Annamite has preserved the initial, but the final liquid has become i : *bar > bai = coast, shore, strand". Arabic word bahr = sea, large river (Nile is called bahr by the natives). "The Noldeke (Neue Beitrage zur semitischen sprachwissenschaft, 1910, p.93) gives as the primary sense 'depression' (rather than 'surface'; cf. aequor); whence (1) sea, (2) land, low-lying land etc. A feminine form bahret has the sense of 'pool', 'basin', 'fish-pond', and also 'land', 'country-side'. Between bharu, maru, and bahr we have, therefore, in addition to the phonetic similarity, a quite curious accord in a double meaning, 'sea', 'low-lying land' or the like. Should not the word bahr, which does not belong to the Semitic in general, have the same origin as Sanskrit and Pali bharu?" (Father Paul Jouon cited in Przyluski, op cit.) Dr. S. Kalyanaraman July 27, 1995 From kalyans at ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 28 13:40:00 1995 From: kalyans at ix.netcom.com (kalyans at ix.netcom.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 06:40:00 -0700 Subject: Kinship: dravidian, munda and indo-aryan Message-ID: <161227020151.23782.5767279929548192236.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Etyma are one source of establishing kinship. Another is the anthropological perspective provided by an ancient social institution: marriage of cousins. Let me cite from W.H.R.Rivers, "The marriage of cousins in India" Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, 1907, pp. 611-640: "Among the Todas the marriage regulation ... is that the children of brother and sister should marry, i.e. a man should marry the daughter either of his mother's brother or of his father's sister, while marriage with the child of the father's brother or mother's sister is absolutely prohibited... among the Paraiyans of Travancore, where the cousin-marriage is usual,the bridegroom pays money to both father and uncle of his bride, the latter receiving the larger sum... among the Idaiyans,... one of the maternal uncles of the bride carries her in his arms to the marriage booth.... IrAqis of the North-Western Provinces, this role of the father's sister's husband is combined with the custom that a man may marry the daughter f his mother's brother... in Telugu the name for the wife's father is also mama, the mother's brother being called menamama; and in Canarese he name for both relatives is the same, viz. mara... (kinship system) of the Korwas (Northern India) shows a close similarity... in which the mother's brother arranges the marriage... In some parts of Australia the marriage regulation that the children of brother and sister must marry is closely connected with another institution, viz. the dual organization of society. In a society organized on this basis the children of a brother and sister must always belong to different divisions of the community... (marriage with the daughter of the maternal or paternal uncle) is to be found among the Gonds of the Central Provinces and it has also been reported of the MazhwAr or Gonds of the NW Provinces and of the Jhoras of Bengal... This kind of marriage is also found among the Kulus of the Panjab, he Magh, an indo- chinese tribe of Bengal, the Ghasyas, a dravidian caste of the NW Provinces, and the Kathis of Bombay... among the Nats of the NW Provinces... among the maheswAris and pancholis of Rajputana, where the bride is carried seven times around the bridegroom by her maternal uncle... among the Shenvis of the Bombay Presidency, the uncle lifts the bride from the marriage altar and sets her down on a heap of rice, the same custom being followed by the PAtAna prabhus, the Panch kalshis, and the sonArs... among the Mogers or fishermen of South Canara... among the Cheros a non-Aryan people of Bengal... the Jain Shmpis of Ahmadnagar... the Modhs of Cutch..." Dr. S. Kalyanaraman kalyans at ix.netcom.com 27 July 1995 From laurence at bishop.bishop.Hawaii.Org Fri Jul 28 17:46:15 1995 From: laurence at bishop.bishop.Hawaii.Org (Linda Laurence) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 07:46:15 -1000 Subject: Introductory Sanskrit grammar Message-ID: <161227020157.23782.2813177468210605971.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Prof. Walter Maurer at the University of Hawaii has just published a new Sanskrit grammar and reader consisting of 32 lessons to be used over a two year course of study. I saw a pre-publication manuscript for the book and think it would be worth investigating as a possible beginner's textbook. It would, of course, be wise to get the opinions of those who really know and teach the language (neither of which apply to myself). Maurer, Walter Harding. _The Sanskrit Language: a grammar and reader_. 2 vols. Richmond, Surrey, England: Curzon Press, 1995. The U.S. distributor is Hunanities Press, 165 First Ave., Atlantic Highlands, NJ 07718-1280. Phone: (908) 872-1441 FAX (908) 872-0717. The cost is approximately $75. Linda Laurence laurence at bishop.bishop.hawaii.org Catalog Librarian Phone: (808) 848-4148 Bishop Museum Library FAX: (808) 841-8968 P.O. Box 19000 Honolulu, Hawaii, 96817-0916 U.S.A. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Take good care of the present, and the future will take care of itself." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * On Thu, 20 Jul 1995, Trevor Baca wrote: > Two elementary questions: (1) What is the best introductory text for > learning to read Sanskrit...> From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca Fri Jul 28 19:52:54 1995 From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 12:52:54 -0700 Subject: Justifying teaching of Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227020159.23782.7782312083901301550.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I reproduce below a short article of mine in response to the request for help posted by Bob Hueckstedt on 22 July 1995. My intention is so doing is not to start a debate on any of the observations I make. (Those wishing to debate should, of course, feel free to debate. Only, they should not assume that I shall have time to respond). The article was published in Inaugural Souvenir and Amara Vaa.nii, p. 48 March 1992, International Foundation for Vedic Education, USA. Since it was intended for a different readership, its order of points is not exactly suitable in responding to Bob's request. However, in order to place an authentic version before you, I have retained the original order. If I wereBob (for the unreality of which possibility I am sure he is thankful), I would read the anvaya paragraphs 4 and 3 first and then the vyatireka paragraphs 1 and 2. The article may be photocopied and distributed free of charge. If translations are published or distributed, one copy should be sent to me. ashok aklujkar MUST IT BE STATED AGAIN? THE IMPORTANCE OF SANSKRIT Ashok Aklujkar Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia Vancouver, B.C. Canada V6T 1Z2 [Para 1: ] In texts such as Pata;njali's Vyaakara.na-mahaa-bhaa.sya (4.1.3) and II;svara-k.r.s.na's Saa.mkhya-kaarikaa (verse 7), several conditions due to which something existing is not perceived are listed. In contemporary India, these conditions seem to have conspired and simultaneously brought themselves to bear on (the unfortunate) Sanskrit. Indians are increasingly failing to notice Sanskrit because, on the one hand, it is too close, like collyrium in the eye, (atisa.mnikar.saat, saamiipyaat) and, on the other, it is placed at too great a distance for most people by teachers teaching it with unrealistic expectations and inappropriate methods (ativiprakar.saa , atiduuraat), because politics aiming at short-term gains come in its way (vyavadhaanaat), because it is allowed very little exposure in main-stream education (tamasaav.rtatvaat), because there is relatively little emphasis on giving the students an instrument for approaching their heritage (indriya-daurbalyaat, indriya-ghaataat), because most Indian minds are occupied with other things particularly with what happens in the West or with basic problems of survival (atipramaadaat, manonavasthaanaat), and because languages like English, which offer greater economic opportunities, have come to dominate life (abhibhavaat). [Para 2:] What even a less-than-sharp observer notices these days in India is the growing anglicization of Indian languages. In the speech of the majority of educated Indians in any province, frequently only the verbs and suffixes are in the vernacular and the words crucial to the proposition in the sentence are in English. Unfortunately, this is only the surface malady. The deeper malaise is that the connection with older or traditional Indian ways of thinking, of imagery, and of linking the past to the present and the future in short, the connection with natural creativity, is increasingly under strain. Generally, English is not supplementing the older Indian way; it is largely replacing it. There does not seem to be widespread awareness that this process, if allowed to continue uncontrolled, will mean intellectual impoverishment, not only of India but of the entire world, and will make India go through highly damaging periods of polarization and social confrontation. [Para 3: ] The main Indian way of thinking and mode of creativity have probably been somewhat influenced by the Perso-Arabic way and mode. The possible contribution of tribal cultures in shaping them need not be doubted either. However, essentially and predominantly, the way and the mode are Sanskrit-Tamil. Without the complexes of languages, literatures and (sub)cultures that are ultimately traceable to Sanskrit and Tamil, there would be no indianness to India. And regardless of the perception to the contrary that the propaganda based on some ill-informed research has succeeded in creating, it is a fact that Sanskrit and Tamil heritages have generally moved ahead on a tandem at least since the beginning of India as a cultural unit. [Para 4: ] Yes, Sanskrit is important because it is one of the very ancient languages, because it has produced bodies of ;saastra and kaavya that are most impressive in quantity as well as quality, because it opens the doors to India's past, because it relates India, on the one hand, to the cultures shaped by classical European languages and, on the other, to the cultures that received Buddhism and Vedism, because its sounds offer solace to millions, because it contains thoughts directed to spiritual liberation, and because it has, on the whole, spread a philosophy of tolerance, non-fanaticism, inclusion, or integration and thereby contributed to unification. But what needs to be principally realised at this time in human history is that Sanskrit is the strongest line of defence India has if it wishes to remain a culturally distinctive entity and that Sanskrit is one of the very few multifaceted traditions which the increasingly English-using world needs to preserve and promote for its own good. Unless it has around itself diverse ways of thinking and diverse stores of human experience diversities of comparable strength a unilingual world will not only be a much less interesting place, it will stagnate or court 'ecological' disaster. As for India's interests, an organic growth of its literary and culturally influential langauges will be possible and those languages will have a better chance of escaping replacement by English, only if they have Sanskrit around only if they are not deprived of the arteries that have brought nourishment to them for centuries. A linguistic and cultural transplant is the last thing India needs while it is coping with the changes effected by political and economic transplants. The talk of language policy-makers in India frequently proceeds as if Sanskrit is to be somehow accommodated in the scheme of things. The policy-makers as well as the promoters of various modern Indian languages need to realise that at this time Sanskrit does not so much need the modern languages as those languages need Sanskrit. The place of Sanskrit is already secure in the museum of the world. There is a very significant message in the fact that no other South Asian language is studied as widely as Sanskrit is around the world. There is a significant message also in the fact that presentations of the Raamaaya.na and the Mahaa-bhaarata on Indian television attract large numbers of unusually intense viewers throughout South Asia. I do not take this to be mainly a tribute to Vaalmiiki and Vyaasa or to be a recognition of the art of the presenters. In my view, it is primarily a demonstration of the yearnings of a population that is being increasingly removed from its roots. The dangers of playing with roots and allowing creation of cleavages, at a time of economic and political realigning, do not need to be spelled out. It would probably suffice only to mention the rise of religious fundamentalism. From magier at columbia.edu Fri Jul 28 17:16:05 1995 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 13:16:05 -0400 Subject: Web page again Message-ID: <161227020156.23782.12664904895097294011.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dominik, today I was unable to reach the Indology web page at the URL I had written down: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html Do I have it wrong? Thanks. David Magier From dwenzel at bishop.bishop.Hawaii.Org Sat Jul 29 00:45:00 1995 From: dwenzel at bishop.bishop.Hawaii.Org (Duane Wenzel) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 14:45:00 -1000 Subject: Introductory Sanskrit Text Message-ID: <161227020162.23782.4775101749750176124.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Thu, 20 Jul 1995, Trevor Baca wrote: > (1) What is the best introductory text for learning to read Sanskrit? As a fourth year Sanskrit student of Dr. Walter Mauer at the University of Hawaii, I have had an opportunity to use his new text, "The Sanskrit language: a grammar and reader," in preliminary form. It is an excellent text, which draws upon his 33 years of experience in teaching Sanskrit. The text is actually two volumes. Volume 1 consists of 32 lessons to be used over a two (academic) year period. Volume 2 contains appendices (the first five cantos of the Nala story, paradigms of declensions and conjugations, a survey of the principal rules of sandhi, and an essay on Sanskrit and its relationship to the other Indo-European languages), an English-Sanskrit glossary, and a Sanskrit-English lexicon. The beauty of the work is in its clear explanations of grammatical constructs. The text assumes the beginning Sanskrit student has a minimal amount of general grammatical knowledge. However, the text is loaded with comparative linguistic jewels, which spring from Dr. Mauer's interest in that subject. I highly recommend this text. By the way, the U.S. distributor is Hu*m*anities Press, Inc. Duane Wenzel Library Chairman Bishop Museum Honolulu, Hawaii USA dwenzel at bishop.bishop.hawaii.org From ai927 at freenet.carleton.ca Fri Jul 28 20:34:39 1995 From: ai927 at freenet.carleton.ca (ai927 at freenet.carleton.ca) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 16:34:39 -0400 Subject: Web page again Message-ID: <161227020160.23782.15875502703182555132.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >Dominik, >today I was unable to reach the Indology web page at the URL I had >written down: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html > >Do I have it wrong? Thanks. David Magier I think that is the correct address, but as of 16:30 EST Friday afternoon, I can't reach it either. I think the web page is temporarily broken. noel evans ai927 at freenet.carleton.ca From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Fri Jul 28 17:45:01 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 17:45:01 +0000 Subject: Web page again Message-ID: <161227020152.23782.9903281823179749848.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A big thank you to those of you who have given me feedback on the INDOLOGY web page. It seems to have pleased everyone, which is nice. For me it is a bit like a tar-baby, though, and I keep fiddling, rearranging, and adding things. It will probably settle down after a few weeks, but at the moment its layout and content change fairly often, though not very radically. So keep checking. If you have a URL you think should be included, let me know. My aim is to make the tree of INDOLOGY's other URL's have as steep a gradient as possible. That's not very clear is it. What I mean is that as few URLs should point to as many useful services as possible: the thing should branch out sharply. A known problem is that when retrieving John Smith's programs, the browser tries (and fails) to execute them rather than downloading them as text. Or is this just an artefact of my browser? Anyone? Thanks again, Dominik From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Fri Jul 28 18:47:06 1995 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 18:47:06 +0000 Subject: Web page again Message-ID: <161227020168.23782.10226965494639678159.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> David Magier said: > > Dominik, > today I was unable to reach the Indology web page at the URL I had > written down: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadkw/indology.html > > Do I have it wrong? Thanks. David Magier No, David, that is correct. I wonder what happened? Dominik From GGA03414 at niftyserve.or.jp Fri Jul 28 11:48:00 1995 From: GGA03414 at niftyserve.or.jp (=?utf-8?B?5byl5rC45L+h576O?=) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 20:48:00 +0900 Subject: Meicho Fukyu kai Message-ID: <161227020148.23782.4543548308662849176.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Some people on this list were searching for the address of Meicho fukyuu kai, a Japanese publishing house in Tokyo. I could find it in the telephone directory of Tokyo -- I phoned them and asked about the compact edition of Monier Williams' Sanskrit English dictionary. Unfortunately, they said that this book is out of print since some time (pretty long time, it seems...). I phoned to a secondhand bookstore specialized in Buddhist studies, but they said that they have not this book and seemed to have never seen it... Anyway, here is the address of Meicho fukyuu kai: Meicho Fukyu-kai Taira-cho 1-16-6 Meguro-ku, Tokyo 152, Japan Telephone: (Japan) 03-3724-8031 or 03-3724-8030 (They have other valuable indological books, I think...). And here is the address of the secondhand bookstore I phoned (this is one of the biggest secondhand bookstores specialized in Buddhological studies in Tokyo; but they have only few books in European languages): Kobayashi shobo Kanda Jinbo-cho 2-12 Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 101, Japan Telephone (Japan) 03-3263-0776 Fax (Japan) 03-3239-8036 Best wishes Nobumi Iyanaga Tokyo, Japan P.S. Dear Jim Hartzell, Thank you for your letter. This is the reply -- I'm sorry for the fact that the book is out of print... From kalyans at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 30 12:07:01 1995 From: kalyans at ix.netcom.com (kalyans at ix.netcom.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 95 05:07:01 -0700 Subject: Where is Mount Mujava(n)t? Message-ID: <161227020164.23782.16893774001879387917.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Can someone throw some light on the location of the Mount Mujavant referred to in the vedic tradition? Is this referred to in any other literary texts or texts of ancient geography? Thanks. Dr. S. Kalyanaraman From breusch at students.wisc.edu Sun Jul 30 15:56:15 1995 From: breusch at students.wisc.edu (breusch at students.wisc.edu) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 95 10:56:15 -0500 Subject: Where is Mount Mujava(n)t? Message-ID: <161227020166.23782.5670190318965670880.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >From N.N. Bhattacharyya, "The Geographical Dictionary -- Ancient and Early Medieval India" 1991, Munshiram: Mujavant, Mujavat A people that took their name from Mujavant, a mountain in the Himalayas. They are mentioned along with the Mahavrsas, Gandhaaris and Baalhikas in AV V.22.5-14. They are also mentioned in Taitt. Sam. I.8.62; Kaathaka Sam. IX.7, XXXVI.14; Mait. Sam. I.4.10.20; Vaaj. Sam. III.61; Sat. Br. II.6.2.17; Baudh. D.S. II.5 From kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp Mon Jul 31 19:54:21 1995 From: kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp (kellner at ue.ipc.hiroshima-u.ac.jp) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 19:54:21 +0000 Subject: Odd examples: Swallowing lamps and not hearing drums in temples Message-ID: <161227020172.23782.10576358942384452569.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In Jn.aanas.riimitra's Anupalabdhirahasya and Sarvas.abdaabhaavacarcaa, I came across two odd examples which, apart from entertaining everybody around and giving rise to funny speculations about their actual meaning, remained mysterious to me so far. (1) [Reference: Thakur's edition of JNA, 184.1f., 196.12ff.] Context: Discussion of "non-cognition" (anupalabdhi), where the cognition of x equals the non-cognition of y. Dharmakiirti devised the criterion of the "equal capacity (of the two objects to be cognized)" (tulyayogyataa), which means that both objects can be jointly perceived (ekajj.aanasam.sargitva) - given that both are existent, it is impossible that only one is cognized. Therefore, if you cognize only the one you can safely infer the absence of the other. While discussing this criterion of tulyayogyataa, Jn.aanas.rii applies a neat catus.kot.i as to whether the two respective objects fulfill the condition of "reachability" (praapyakaaritva) upon being perceived. He argues that only if both objects are perceptible through a praapyakaari-perception, the presence of the one equals the absence of the other. Example: touch and taste are O.K., but visual and auditory perception are not, likewise touch and smell. The example for the "sound" case is: Somebody, who swallowed a lamp (pradiipa), infers the absence of taste from the presence of touch. I was wondering whether anybody can produce an attested other meaning for "pradiipa" which makes this example sound less odd. (2) [Reference: JNA 184.8ff.] In roughly the same context, Jn.aanas.rii produces the following example: When a temple (devakula) is clearly visible (paridr.s.yamaana), the establishment of the absence of the sound of a kettle-drum (bheriis.abda) does not necessarily depend on the presence of another sound (s.abdaantarapratiitisaapeks.aa). I skip the implications of this example, but can make sense out of it insofar it would be odd to say that only when another instrument is played can you conclude that nobody plays a drum. Again, I was wondering whether anybody is aware of similarly structured examples. Any references would be greatly appreciated. Birgit Kellner Institute for Indian Philosophy University of Hiroshima