Witzel's previous posts : was Re: Indian History & Sangh Parivar (Was: Medieval India)
Vidyasankar Sundaresan
vidya at cco.caltech.edu
Sun Dec 10 05:58:04 UTC 1995
Sorry for the huge delay. I got tied up with other work. Seeing the
recent posts on translations, I know you must be very interested in
reading his original criticisms agains O'F, so here they are:
Vidya
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Subject: W.D.O'Flaherty's Rgveda
Since I had been put on the spot, I had promised some examples from
W. Doniger O'FLAHERTY's TRANSLATIONS:
To be (relatively) quick: one section each from the Rgveda, Jaiminiya
Brahmana and Manu in this and the next 2 messages:
1. The Rig Veda. An anthology, Penguin 1981
RV 10.95 (O'Flaherty p.253):
VS.1. O's rendering of even the first two paadas is more of a
paraphrase than a translation:
Haye' jaa'ye ma'nasaa ti'STha ghore
va'caaMsi mizraa' kRNavaavahai nu'
"My wife turn your heart and mind to me. Stay here, dangerous
woman, and let us exchange words."
This is rather a stream of unconnected George-Bush-like anacoluths,
five sentences in the first line, which reflect the state of mind
of Pururavas (love-sick, wandering around stammering, as ZB says).
-- O. missed this altogether. (Of course, the discussion of this
hymn by K. Hoffmann, Der Injunktiv im Veda, Wiesbaden 1967, p. 199
might have helped.)
Thus: "Hey! Wife! Sensibly -- Stand still! Terrible one! -- let us
now exchange words!"
(haye seems to be the more polite version of: hai, usually
addressed to female demons, in AV etc. -- In the RV, Hoffmann
thinks, haye means something like "oh, poor me", German: ach)
VS 5. raa'ja me viira tanv`as ta'd aasiiH
O.: "you were my man, king of my body".
The Vedic accent (viira, no accent, is vocative) has not been
recognized.
Thus:
"Then, o man, you were lord of my body."
(Geldner and Hoffmann correctly)
12. ca'kran naa'zru vartayad vijaana'n
O.: "He will shed tears, sobbing, when he learns"
There is no sobbing here, and cakran na (usual Vedic sandhi) is, at
best, zleSa (krand "cry"/cakra "wheel")-- but transl.?; and
vartayad is Injunctive Present (Hoffm. p. 205). Thus:
"(the new born son), he lets roll (down) the tear like a wheel,
when he discerns."
(The same in Vs 13: no sobbing!)
VS15. maa' pra' papto ... na' va'i stra'iNaani sakhyaa'ni santi.
O: "do not vanish... There are no friendships with women."
In 14 and 15 pra pat refers to killing oneself by jumping down (a
cliff), = suicide. Cf. S'B 11.5.8.1 (Hoffm. p. 207 n. 193). *That*
is how the wolves would find him...
O. denies the possibility of male/female friendship -- perhaps a
current local cultural bias -- but certainly not a Rgvedic one. For:
Sakhya- is completely misunderstood, as is usual in such cases with
Indologists not very conversant with Vedic; it is understood on the
basis of Epic/Classical sakhi "friend" and thus the whole point of
the apparent saying is missed.
A Vedic sakhi is not just any friend (and a woman could be that!)
but a socius, the -- by necessity -- MALE member of a sodality such
a the
vraatya "brotherhood" (therefore Hoffmann: "Gefolgschaftstreue"; on
Vraatyas see now H. Falk, Bruderschaft, Freiburg 1986). There simply
*are* no female sakhya-. The (common) women of the vraatyas live with
them for a while just like Urvazii...
--- etc. etc. In this hymn (of 18 stanzas) alone I have counted 43
instances which are wrong or where others would easily disagree.
In short: UNRELIABLE and idiosyncratic.
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Subject: W.D.O'Flaherty's Jaiminiya Brahmana
Since I had been put on the spot, etc.: here is NO. 2:
2. Jaiminiya Brahmana
(W.D. O'Flaherty, Tales of Sex and Violence. Folklore, Sacrifice, and
Danger in the Jaiminiya Brahmana. U. of Chicago Press 1985)
There are many points I would take issue with in this book
(starting from the title and the time limit she gives to JB, 900 BC,
without any justification, etc. etc., -- for the moment, see H.
Bodewitz, in his introd. to vol. II of his JB translation).
And of course, the translation, again is a *re*-translation, for
all of O.'s selections had been translated by Hans Oertel and
Willem Caland into English/German long before; see her own
bibliography. O. merely added a fashionable(?) Freudian coating.
I select for commentary: "The rejuvenation of Cyavana" (JB
3.120-29), O. p. 64 sqq.;
The trouble again is that O. did not follow up the secondary
literature well, not even with the help of the students she
mentions.
* if, -- she would have noticed that the 19th century "western
scorn for the brahmanas" has long been overcome, see K. Hoffmann,
Aufsaetze zur Indo-Iranistik,vol. III, ed. S Glauch et al.,
Wiesbaden 1992, p. 709, -- a 1959 piece, following up Oldenberg and
St. Schayer -- and Hoffmann's school at Erlangen, among which my
lamented friend, A.Benke, MA thesis Erlangen 1976, and M. Witzel:
On Magical Thought in the Veda. Leiden: Universitaire Pers, 1979
(where the literature is given; incidentally, all provided by the
editor to B.K. Smith for his article in Indo-Iranian Journal: "The
unity of ritual: The place of the domestic sacrifice in Vedic
ritualism", IIJ 29,(1986) 79-96, and only partially used in his book
"Reflections on resemblance, ritual, and religion." New York-Oxford
1989.-- which again lambasts our predecessors without making clear
that their attitudes had long been overcome.)
* And, -- if the sec. lit. had been used -- the translation would
have turned out much better.
In JB 3.120 sqq. (p. 64 sqq.) there are several cases where this
would have helped: p. 64 (JB 3.120): O's "the thrice returning
departure" versus W. Rau, MSS 39, p. 159, 161 n. 1 tells us that
this is part of the trekking procedure of the Vedic Indo-Aryans: Two
days travel, one day rest (yoga-kSema). Thus: 3 times a period of
double marching days (trih punahprayaaNam). -- NB. see already his
book: Staat und Gesellschaft im alten Indien nach den
Brahmana-Texten dargestellt, Wiesbaden 1957, again largely unread
west of the Atlantic...).
Further, the graama, which treks with wild west style wagons, is
not a "clan" as O. translates repeatedly but a group of people under
a
graamanii "trek leader": including brahmins, ksatriyas, vaisyas and
others -- for example the dumb carpenter of O. p.107, JB 2.272).
The old Cyavana (3.120, p. 65) is not "on his last legs" but a
niSThaava, a "spitter" due to loss of front teeth, see again W. Rau,
MSS 39, 160-161
I also leave aside her predilection for street language
colloquialisms "balls of cowshit, balls of shit" (or: the balls of
Indra) or: hanta "hell!" (p. 65, 3.121), normal meaning: "let's do
(something)" -- all all cases where Vedic slang is not seen in the
Sanskrit but the standard expressions, and I also leave aside the
many gaps in the translations where words or whole sentences have
been forgotten (e.g.: p. 64 As he was left behind :vaastau; p. 64
His sons have left him: nuunam; etc . etc. -- the last section, JB
3.125, only receives a short paraphrase, not a translation -- but O.
does not tell us).
I rather move to more serious grammatical business: O. does not
know the function of the "future" imperative in -taad (Delbrueck,
Altindische Syntax, 1888 (!) p. 263 sqq. Thus in par. 123-124,
where a serious of commands is given, they should be tranlated by:
do this, AND THEN do that -- the normal meaning of -taad in the
Veda.
O. always calls the members of Zaaryaata's wagon train (graama)
"Zaryaati", misunderstanding the 'first-year Sanskrit' Vrddhi
formation in the text which has zaaryaatya- .
Difficult sentences, such as: saa yadiitiiyaayayaditi (p. 65, 3.121
end) are simply left out without telling us so.
And p. 66 (JB 3.124) abibhede (MSS: abhibede/Talavakara Brahmana
parallel: abhipede!!) is not (with Caland) "she could tell them
apart" (from bhid???) but a typical JB mistake for *abhipede "she
touched him by the arm, baahau)", see K. Hoffmann, MSS 23 (1968!),
p., 41-43 = Aufsaetze p. 504-5.
Simple question: if *that* much is wrong in just one story (and
this is a small selection only!) -- what about the rest of this book
and her other translations?
Facit: It might have been better to have used the old translations
and to have added her Freudian interpretation to them...
In sum: The "translation" simply is UNREALIABLE.
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Subject: W. Doniger's Manu
Since I have been put on the spot, etc. : here is translation no.3:
3. The Laws of Manu (Wendy Doniger, with B.K. Smith) Penguin 1991.
Leaving aside the introduction which stresses the novelty of the
translation ... and various well-known problems encountered in
translation, which, in my opinion at least, have not been solved
admirably (cf. the forthc. volume on Translations from Indian
languages, HOS, based on the 1994 conference at Harvard, organized
by E. Garzilli),
I give just one example which shows both wrong (rather, lack of)
philological method and lack of simple common sense.
Manu 8.134-135, on weights:
O. : 8.134:
"Six (white) 'mustard seeds' equal one medium-sized 'barley-corn',
and three 'barley-corns' make one 'berry'; five 'berries' make a
'bean', sixteen 'beans' a 'gold-piece'. 135. Four 'gold-pieces'
equal a 'straw'....
footnote: The 'straw' (pala) thus weighed about 1.33 ounces or 37.76
grams .... might be measurements of gold, silver or copper. <<of
course, tola, etc. and ratti, see note 134, still are in use!>>
-- First logic or common sense: Take 3x5x16x4 (960) barley corns and
weigh them... and see whether they eqyal any blade of straw. Even
if you believe, with Herodotos, in gold digging ants and other
wonders in India, I haven't seen Indian (rice/barley) straw of that
weight.
-- But we forget simple philology, the hand-maiden of any
translation that is supposedly better than Buehler's in Victorian
English and the recent partial one by Derrett, etc. :
The last straw is : If you check pala in the Petersburg dictionary
(PW) , or even in its copy, Monier Williams' dict., you see that
pala 'straw' is attested only with some lexicographer, who turns out
to be Hemacandra (according to the PW, in his AbhidhaanacintaamaNi
1182), that is, and theword apparently is attested only once).
If you check the surrounding words, you find palaala in Manu, Mbh.
(and Atharvaveda: palaalii) which mean 'straw'; and palada' (AV) of
similar meaning. It is clear that Hemacandra got his truncated
(hapax!) word pala from from the well known word for RstrawS
palaala/ii / palaada' (cf.TURNER 7958) -- while pala (Turner 7952!)
always meant 'a certain weight/measure' and also 'meat'.--
Mayrhofer suggests an Indo-European (see: palaava "chaff,grass"),
and a Dravidian (Tamil: pul etc.) etymology.
Common sense apart, to establish pala 'straw', D. should at least
have searched in texts of similar nature and time level before
accepting the meaning of 'straw' in Manu.
-- And a little less hype would also do: "a landmark translation,
the first authoritative translation in this century" (cover); "to
offer to more specialized scholars new interpretations of many
difficult verses." (p. lxi) --- I doubt it.
NB: the translation is based on 2 apparently uncritical editions
with 7-9 commentaries (not available at Harvard). While commentators
occasionally provide some variant readings found at their time and
in their location, we do not know, of course, how these variants are
represented in the *UN*critical editions: their very form may be
influenced by the choice of the editor... see this Summer's
(unfinished) discussion on criticla editions. I have seen such
procedures with Kashmiri misreadings in a text edited in N. India).
In the present case, of course, we have the 19th century style
half-way critical edition with many variaant readings by J. Jolly,
representing the Vulgate, and not Bharuci's earlier text. But these
two have *not* been used as the base text.
Also, D. does not take real issue with BharuciUs variants. This
is the only OLDER commentary we have; incidentally, at the instance
where I once had to check Bharuci against the oldest Manu MS (
written under Govindracandra of Kanauj,c.1150 AD), the MS already
followed the Vulgate and not Bharuci. Good reason thus to take Bh.
seriously -- and his text is easily available, even in translation.
In view of all of this, I wonder indeed whether D's translation would
have been accepted in the Harvard Oriental Series rather than in
Penguin (p. lxviii).
Finally, note that all 3 translations are RE-translations. Mistakes
of the type mentioned above could easily have been avoided if the
work of our 19th century predecessors (and contemporaries!) had been
consulted more carefully -- instead of following the current
fashion of lambasting them for various / supposed
prejudices/attitudes of their times (what about <<end-of->> 20th
century attitudes? The critics have 5 years to go before they are in
for equally severe criticism of their 20th century
prejudices/attitudes!)
Last point: Looking at the various new translations that have
appeared in the past decade or so:
Why always to RE-translate something done *several* times over
already --- and why not to take up one of the zillion UN-translated
Skt. texts?
Much more difficult of course...
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