From lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu  Tue Nov  1 01:18:16 1994
From: lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu (Lance Nelson)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 17:18:16 -0800
Subject: VHP and United Way (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017668.23782.6685640477640447258.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Tue, 1 Nov 1994 marcus.banks at anthropology.oxford.ac.uk wrote:

> >Dear Ms. Johnson,
> >
> >        I am unhappy to learn that the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) --
> >"World Hindu Council" -- has established a Donor Choice Agency code with
> >the United Way, so that United Way donors can direct their tax-deductible
> >donations to the VHP.
> 
> And for the non-North Americans amongst us, what is 'the United Way'?

Sorry.  The United Way is a large and respected organization that 
collects money and distributes it to charities, many of them also highly 
respected.  The yearly United Way campaign is an established part of 
American civic life.  At my university, for example, the United Way 
campaign is officially sponsored, the president appoints a campaign 
chair, and all employees are urged to donate.  Hence, to be accepted as 
an official charity of the United Way is a considerable boon to any cause.

LN
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lance Nelson                                              Phone: 619/260-4054
Theological & Religious Studies                             FAX: 619/260-2260
University of San Diego                         E-mail: lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu
San Diego, CA 92110-2492                                               U.S.A.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 





From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Tue Nov  1 02:29:35 1994
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 18:29:35 -0800
Subject: Yoga-suutra reading
Message-ID: <161227017666.23782.12729477121924481056.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On 28 October, Gary R. Thrapp, <thrapp at nosc.mil> or <thrapp at helios.nosc.mil
(.)> wrote: 
"I have noticed a discrepancy between versions of the Yoga Sutras in
chapter 1, verse 35.  The last word of the verse in some versions is
'sthitinibandhanii' and and in others it is 'sthitinibandhinii'. #
'nibandhanii' appears to the nominative singular of a feminine noun meaning
'bond'.  'nibandhinii' seems to be the nominative singular, feminine form
of the adjective 'nibandhin' meaning 'producing'.  The entire verse is
"vi.sayavatii vaa prav.rttirutpannaa manasa.h sthitinibandh[a|i]nii." #  I
am a beginning student of Sanskrit and there are many things about the
grammar of this verse that confuses [confuse] me.  In some ways
'nibandhinii' seems to fit making the last part of the verse "producing
steadiness of mind" but then I wonder if the adjective of 'sthiti' would
appear at the end of the compound and if the compound would be in the
nominative.  The alternative with 'nibandhanii' seems to be "the bond of
steadiness of mind." Perhaps this could be an equivalence with the first
part of the verse meaning "<first part> is the bond of steadiness of mind"
which would explain the nominative case. # I would greatly appreciate your
thoughts on which version is accurate, and any comments on the whole
verse." 

The context of suutra 1.35 consists in listing the various ways in which
the yogin could hold on to, that is, be able to extend states of
concentration. The word nibandhanii/-dhinii is not an adjective of sthiti. 
The whole compound sthiti-nibandhanii/-dhinii is a predicate adjective or
complementation of prav.rtti.h. As the sentence contained in the suutra is
an identification statement ('x is y' type of sentence), there is nothing
unusual about sthiti-nibandhanii/-dhinii being in the nominative case, in
agreement with prav.rtti.h. As for the precise reading, -nibandhanii must
be preferred (although there would be no significant difference of meaning
even if -nibandhinii were read). It is, as Mr. Thrapp guessed, the feminine
of nibandhana 'point of tying, bond, a kind of stem on which something else
hangs.  Works closer in time to the Yoga-suutra employ it as well as
similarly formed words like upabandhanii. For example, see Bhart.r-hari,
Vaakyapadiiya 1.110 'sabde.sv evaa'sritaa 'saktir vi'svasyaasya
nibandhanii, and 1.117 saa sarva-vidyaa-'silpaanaa.m kalaanaa.m
copabandhanii. 

Incidentally, a suutra should not be referred to as verse as if it were a
text selected for a church sermon.

Ashok Aklujkar, Professor, Department of Asian Studies, University of B.C.,
Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. Tel: O: (604) 822-5185, R: (604) 274-5353.
 Fax O:
822-8937. E-mail: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca

 





From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Tue Nov  1 17:28:58 1994
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 94 09:28:58 -0800
Subject: Maitraak.sa-jyotika
Message-ID: <161227017672.23782.12633457109453422989.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On 27 October,C. Minkowski, Cornell, floated the following query:  "Friends
on this list who work on the dharmasastras: # Manusmrti 12.72 predicts that
a vaisya who slips from dharma will be reborn as a maitraaks.ajyotika,
which at least one commentator renders as a being who has an eye in his
anus. [What is more, he will be puuyabhuk,a pus-eater, although how he gets
the pus into his mouth when his eye is around behind is difficult to
imagine, or perhaps one doesn't wish to imagine.] # The question is this -
are there other Sanskrit or Indic sources
that refer to a creature with this unusual ocular endowment ?  In medieval
european sources there is reference to Satan being so endowed, and so I
wonder how well-attested the notion is in ancient India."

        I am no Dharma-'saastra expert and I have nothing to contribute on
the main question Prof. Minkowski has asked, except to say that the
Buddhist and Jaina descriptions of pretas and naaraka-yonis and many
Brahmanical  puraa.nic accounts seem promising from the point of view of
unearthing the information he is looking for; e.g. the Vaayu-puraa.na
section describing the family of Ka'syapa, the  iva-puraa.na Satii-kha.n.da
section describing 'Siva's wedding procession, and other puraa.nas
narrating fights with asura and raak.sasa armies (I owe the three puraa.nic
specifications to my son Muktak). 
        However, I would like to observe that Prof. Minkowski is probably
making the text look ridiculous when he need not.   maitraaks.ajyotika need
not be translated as 'a being who has an eye in his anus. 
Kulluuka-bha.t.ta, whom Minkowski is probably following here, does not in
fact support such an interpretation. His remark, rather, means: 'a being
who has a flame (extreme burning sensation, constant discomfort?) in his
anus.  Note that in the preceding Manu verse a fallen vipra is described as
one who will be born as vaantaa'sii and ulkaa-mukha. If puuyabhuk
corresponds to vaantaa'sii,  maitraaks.ajyotik should correspond to
ulkaa-mukha, which Kulluuka (rightly, in my view) renders as jvaalaa-mukha.

        In the intervening line regarding the k.sattriya, ka.ta-puutana
should probably be interpreted analogously, although at the moment I am not
sure exactly how; perhaps as 'one who has a poisonous flow (cf. the
demoness Puutanaa who came to kill baby K.r.s.na through breast feeding; or
flame?) in his forehead.'

Ashok Aklujkar, Professor, Department of Asian Studies, University of B.C.,
Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. Tel: O: (604) 822-5185, R: (604) 274-5353.
 Fax O:
822-8937. E-mail: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca

 

Original-Received:  by bronze.ucs.indiana.edu 
PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 18:41:20 -0500
From: edeltraud harzer clear <eclear at bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re:  Conference on Religion in South India
Message-ID: <"mailhub.live:037250:941101234130"@liverpool.ac.uk>

Dear organizer of the CRSI, I would like to participate 
in the workshop this coming June at Indiana University.
I am teaching in the Dept. of Religious Studies at 
Indiana University.  My e-mail address is
eclear at bronze.ucs.indiana.edu
my snail adress is:
Edeltraud Harzer Clear
Dept. of Religious Studies
Sycamore Hall 230
Indiana University
Bloomington, In. 47405
Thank you, Edeltraud.
 





From relpbc at unix.cc.emory.edu  Tue Nov  1 17:26:06 1994
From: relpbc at unix.cc.emory.edu (Paul B. Courtright)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 94 12:26:06 -0500
Subject: Conference on Religion in South India
Message-ID: <161227017669.23782.5463822956086963540.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


	The Conference on Religion in South India (CRSI) is a small, informal, 
independent group of scholars who have interests in religious traditions 
in South India and their influences eleswhere in the subcontinent and 
beyond.  Each year, usually the second weekend in June, a workshop is 
held somewhere in the United States, in order to present papers and have 
sufficient time for leisurely discussion on a common theme.  Normally 
about 30 people attend the workshops, scholars in fields such as 
literature, history, religious studies, art history, anthropology, and 
South Asian studies.
	This year the CRSI will meet at the University of Indiana, June 
9-12, on the theme of religion and the body in South India.  The cost for 
the weekend workshop will be approximately $225 for room, board, and 
facilities, transportation is not included.  
	I am attempting to establish a CRSI list-serv to enhance 
communication among persons with interest in the CRSI and its 
conversations.  If you would be interested in participating in such a 
list, please send me your email address.  Further information on the 
workshop will be sent to your shortly.  Thank you. 

Paul Courtright
relpbc at unix.cc.emory.edu
 





From aamerson at s1.csuhayward.edu  Wed Nov  2 00:00:36 1994
From: aamerson at s1.csuhayward.edu (aamerson at s1.csuhayward.edu)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 94 16:00:36 -0800
Subject: Conference on Religion in South India
Message-ID: <161227017674.23782.6891461818017002340.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


quit
1
 





From cheaw260 at unix.cc.emory.edu  Wed Nov  2 07:37:25 1994
From: cheaw260 at unix.cc.emory.edu (cheaw260 at unix.cc.emory.edu)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 94 02:37:25 -0500
Subject: VHP and United Way (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017676.23782.9888693966181613832.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear subscribers, 
I have been subscribing to the indology net for more than a year
and I have had the pleasure of being a part of many an
intellectually stimulating discussion (albeit in a passive mode).
	 I must say that I am quite disturbed by this recent post by
Mr. Lance Nelson.  Of what academic importance is the fact that 
United Way has established a donor choice code for VHP of America?
Is this network a lobbying group?  More disturbing is the fact that
the esteemed 'policemen' in this net who are the first to attack
Mr. Dileep Karanth's postings for their lack of relevance and for
imputing ulterior motives to his postings have sought to remain
silent spectators to Mr. Nelson's irrelevant and irresponsible
posting.  These are the gentlemen who wish
to restrict the use of this network for solely academic
discussions.  By not speaking up or rather, by not subjecting the
post by Mr. Nelson to the same vitriolic ridicule that Mr.
Karanth's post have been a target, it will lend some credence to
the belief that there are some 'academicians' on this network who
may still have a bit of Lord Macaulay in their blood and
unknowingly allow this to spill into their rather 'academic' and
'unbiased' study of India. 
   I do have some objections on the content of Mr. Nelson's
post.  However, I refrain from posting those on the grounds that
this is not the right forum for these discussions.  My
sensibilities have been hurt by Mr. Nelson's lack of concern for
the subscribers of this network and I hope he has the decency to
apologise.  If he is one of the 'scholars on VHP' and has the
capacity to participate in an open-minded discussion, an abilty to
imbibe knowledge that may probably go against his conclusions,
and also has 
the ability to formulate/reformulate his opinion on the subject based on        this knowledge I will be glad to have a      
discussion with him or any other 'scholar'.  On the other hand if
these self-appointed 'scholars' feel that they know everthing that
there is to know about VHP of America, then I do not wish to waste
my time any further.
My e-mail address is cheaw260 at unix.cc.emory.edu.

Sincerely,
Vinod Nair
 





From z900672a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us  Wed Nov  2 13:09:37 1994
From: z900672a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (The Skeptic)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 94 08:09:37 -0500
Subject: VHP and United Way (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017678.23782.3199107697215315981.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I agree with the sentiments of Vinod. I think it was inappropriate to post 
anything, pro or con about VHP on this list just because it has "indo" in 
its name. The post in question was already posted to several newgroups, 
including pakistani and muslim groups and it was waste of resources of 
this list and against its agenda.

Aditya Mishra
Phone/FAX 305-746-0442 (Please leave message)
email:  z900672a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us
PRODIGY: TVDS96A


 





From mitra at aecom.yu.edu  Wed Nov  2 20:06:06 1994
From: mitra at aecom.yu.edu (Joydeep Mitra)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 94 15:06:06 -0500
Subject: VHP and United Way (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017679.23782.4194301295652966152.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I support Dr. Lance Nelson's letter wholeheartedly. Such actions are much
called for these days. Free communication of ideas, opinions, etc must be
welcomed by all of us. His letter was most certainly pertinent to India.

Sincerely,
Joydeep Mitra.


 





From czm1 at cornell.edu  Thu Nov  3 01:14:20 1994
From: czm1 at cornell.edu (czm1 at cornell.edu)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 94 20:14:20 -0500
Subject: Maitraak.sa-jyotika
Message-ID: <161227017681.23782.13241102447336081079.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

        Professor Aklujkar has made a useful and plausible suggestion that
would read this unusual term in a way more suitably parallel with the
outcome Manu predicts for the fallen Brahmin in a neighboring line.
        Note, however, that the comm. I was referring to is not Kulluka but
Medhatithi, who does indeed suggest, among other possibilities, that the
term refers to a creature with an eye (jyotir dr.s.t.au) in his paayu.  And
surely it is possible that Kulluka also means this, for surely jyotis can
as easily mean "light of intelligence/sight," as "flame," as Amara tells
us.  So Buhler has (at least optionally) understood Kulluka and Medhatithi
and Raghava as well. (Doniger here follows Buhler.)
        I would be interested to know whether there are in fact many Bv.
compounds with jyotis as the second member that mean "having a flame as/in
___." I have not found any. I can only find Brhadaranyaka Up. 4.3.3ff,
which of course I would be very unhappy translating : "when the sun has
set, Yajnavalkya, in what does a man have a flame ?" or worse, "... where
does a man have a burning sensation ?"
        In any case the attestation of this peculiar compound is limited to
this one passage.  The dictionaries do not even attempt to render it. Even
maitraaks.a does not seem to be attested elsewhere. No one has sent me
other explicit examples of the "anal eye" from their readings.  And so, I
agree that we are better off following Aklujkar's analysis, setting aside
this unemphatic suggestion of the commentators, with the result that the
irregular notion of an anal eye is eliminated from the corpus of Indic
literature.  If so my proposed parallel with European sources, much
discussed of late in European Medieval studies, is also voided.  Well, tant
pis.
C. Minkowski,
Cornell

 





From razdan at ntd.comsat.com  Thu Nov  3 13:37:01 1994
From: razdan at ntd.comsat.com (Rajender Razdan)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 94 08:37:01 -0500
Subject: VHP and United Way
Message-ID: <161227017683.23782.2658276958922132030.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


     While I quite agree that Indology might not be a suitable forum for
debate over VHP and VHP-A activities; since the issue has been raised; 
before it is closed I'd like to add my voice to present a different 
picture than the one that was presented by Shri Lance Nelson. 

     I personally have contributed in the past (and still continue to
contribute) my own money to VHP-A under the auspicies of the United Way
program and have been very pleased with the work they have performed.
Hindu society has often been criticized for its lack of social welfare
programs- in this regard the VHP-A is one of the few Hindu organizations
which has worked tirelessly for the cause of the needy in India. Whether
it be helping the victims of earthquakes, as in Maharashtra last year; or
in providing relief for the displaced Kashmiri Pandit families languishing
in the camps in Jammu or for its numerous literacy programs all across
India, the VHP-A has performed outstandingly. 

    In this regard, the vehemency with which VHP and the VHP-A organi-
zations have been attacked, point to the polarization within the Hindu
society. There is a new breed of increasingly *Westernized* Hindus (many
of whom dabble in the Indology forum) that seems to have come up; a breed
which seems to be sadly out of touch with the reality of Hindu society.
The Hinduism that this breed of self-alienated Hindus would like to deal
with is that of a sanitized or dead society. But the truth is that Hindu
society is neither dead nor yet extinct; though many on this forum
seemingly would like it to be so. Hindu society is, instead, in the
process of redefining and reshaping itself. The vicious anti-VHP and 
anti-VHP-A tirade orchestrated by these self-appointed judges of morality 
is aimed directly at Hindu society. We are told that since VHP supported 
the building of the Rama mandir at Ayodhya at the very spot where the 
Babri Masjid stands; and that because some of their supporters actually 
took part in tearing down the Babri structure, that therefore the VHP is 
a most rabid militant and fundamentalist organization. 

     What is left unspoken by these Westernized self-alienated Hindus is
that the Babri Masjid has been a disputed site for over a century; that no
muslim ever went there for prayers or offered Namaz there for over 40
years and that Hindus have claimed it as the birthplace of Lord Rama for
centuries.  To add to this, the Babri structure, to Hindus, is a symbol of
one of the most oppressive periods in Indian history; i.e. the Mohammedan
conquest of India typified by Babar who is supposed to have laid this
structure over an existing temple. 

    I mention all this, because there has been very little analysis and
discussion of the Babri Masjid issue in the Western press; except to
paint a caricature of Hindus as being militant or fundamentalist (whatever
that may be). And it is the educated, soft-spoken, Westernized Hindu who
has generally shown the greatest degree of vehemence against his own Hindu
society by choosing to remain silent on all the details of the Babri
Masjid episode. 

   Hindus are grappling with numerous issues today; those of identity, how
to interact with the myriad of cultures and religions that make up the
great melting-pot of civilization which we call India, etc. It is in-
evitable that these issues, though essentially religious and personal,
will be played out on the political stage. VHP of India does both politi-
cal and cultural work, and gets a large amount of criticism from its
detractors.  Some of the criticism is fair, but a large amount of the 
criticism is quite patently unfair.  Being a political entity, this is 
not something that can be avoided. The same is not true of VHP of America 
(VHP-A) which is ONLY a religious and cultural entity and not a political 
entity.  The VHP-A has taken great pains to show that it is in no way
connected with the VHP-I. It has kept up-to-date records to prove that
not a single cent obtained by VHP-A has been passed on to VHP-I. It,
therefore, is incumbent upon the accusers of VHP-A to provide proof of
its connection with VHP-I; beyond just pure innuendo. 


    Meanwhile, the people who point fingers at the VHP-A are guilty of
some of the worst form of character assasination of an organization which
has selflessly devoted its time, efforts and energy to some of the most
worthy causes. 

Rajender Razdan
 





From raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu  Thu Nov  3 11:25:35 1994
From: raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (raja at galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 94 11:25:35 +0000
Subject: VHP and United Way
Message-ID: <161227017692.23782.8231094129969882278.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


In reply to Rajender Razdan's message:

As a Hindu who dislikes the VHP (whether "I" or "A"),
I find it funny that VHP-walas refer to us as "Westernized"
and "alienated."  On the contrary, the VHP-walas are the 
ones who are infected by the Islamic/Christian tendency 
to mix politics and religion.  

I wish they would recover from this Islamization and return 
to being normal, non-political, traditional Hindus.

Let Hinduism be your religion, not your profession.

Regards,


Narayan Sriranga Raja.

 





From SIDDHARTHV at delphi.com  Thu Nov  3 17:24:23 1994
From: SIDDHARTHV at delphi.com (SIDDHARTHV at delphi.com)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 94 12:24:23 -0500
Subject: Nov. 1984 Anniversary
Message-ID: <161227017685.23782.14295592045038937918.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

** Please Sign ** This will be sent to the Indian & U.S. press ** 

              AN APPEAL TO ALL WOMEN AND MEN OF CONSCIENCE  

      ** Ten Years After the Delhi Massacres of November 1984 **
_________________________________________________________________ 

     It is now ten years since the massacre of more than three
thousand people in Delhi and other cities following the
assassination of Indira Gandhi. Although official and independent
inquiries have implicated police officers, government
functionaries and leaders of the Congress(I) in those killings,
no action has been taken against them. Individuals whose
prosecution was mandated by official panels continue to occupy
positions of influence whereas their victims  have yet to be
adequately compensated and rehabilitated.
     Since 1984, communal violence has been repeatedly organised
all over the country, most recently in the wake of the demolition
of the Babri Masjid. In Bombay and Surat, for example, various
political parties and organizations - besides the police - are
known to have played a prominent role. Why are such incidents
allowed to take place, and why are those involved in perpetrating
this violence not brought to book?
      The years following the 1984 massacres have seen four
different governments at the national level, headed by Rajiv
Gandhi, V.P. Singh, Chandra Shekhar and Narasimha Rao. In
addition, the BJP has held power in states such as Delhi and
Uttar Pradesh. Despite this rotation of political parties and
leaders, the guilty have not been punished. The failure of
successive governments to give justice to the people suggests
that there are serious shortcomings in the ability of the present
political system to protect the rights of citizens. Not only are
the instigators of communal violence never apprehended but it is
also not uncommon for cases of murder, disappearances and
custodial killings to go uninvestigated and unpunished - as
events in Punjab, Kashmir, Andhra Pradesh and elsewhere serve to
remind us. The rule of law has, in effect, been rendered a dead
letter as the perpetrators of violence are allowed to freely go
about their business.
     Ten years after November 1984, the task of ending this
appalling state of affairs remains as urgent as ever. The
government must ensure that the rights of all citizens are
protected and respected. No official, party or political
personality should be above the law.

ON THE OCCASION OF THE TENTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE 1984 MASSACRES,
WE, THE UNDERSIGNED, CALL UPON EVERYONE TO DEMAND THAT THE INDIAN
GOVERNMENT: 

1. Compensate and rehabilitate the victims of November 1984 and
all incidents of communal violence.

2. Prosecute those involved in crimes against the people,
regardless of their political or official affiliation.

3. Bring about an immediate end to all acts of violence against
the people. 
                            
                |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|
                | PARTIAL LIST OF SIGNATORIES TO APPEAL |
                |_______________________________________|

(Institutional affiliations for identification purposes only) 

Anurag Acharya, Carnegie-Mellon University
Dr. Pal Ahluwalia, University of Adelaide
Prof. Meena Alexander, Poet
Dr. B. Ananthanarayan, Lausanne
Prof. Frederique Apffel-Marglin, Smith College
Prof. Ravi Arunkundram, New York University
Association of Indian Progressive Study Groups
Jasbir Bhangoo, University of New Mexico
Raghu R Bhat, University of Karlsruhe
Prof. Crispin Bates, Edinburgh University
Prof. Ravi B. Boppana, New York University
Prof. Sugata Bose, Tufts University
Shonali Bose, University of California at Los Angeles
Kusumlata Chaddha, Kiel University
Banjot Singh Chanana, Brown University
Dr. Anuj Dawar, University of Swansea
Mandeep Singh Dhillon, Raleigh, NC
Ahmed Farooq, Stanford University
Rajesh Gopakumar, Princeton University
Vivek Gore, University of Edinburgh
Jamal Hassan, South Asia Legal Aid, Toronto
Indian Progressive Action Group, Austin
Prof. Roger Jeffery, Edinburgh University
Gurinder Singh Johar, Bell Labs
Sibi Kuruvilla, North Carolina State University
Dr. David Lelyveld, Columbia University
Harsha G. Marti, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Sanjoy Majumder, Northwestern University
Dalvinder Singh Matharu
K. Mohit, Californina Institute of Technology
V. Nagarajan, University of Washington
Prof. C.M. Naim, University of Chicago
Harminder Kaur Nayar
Dr. Bedabrata Pain, Indian Progressive Study Group
Dr. R.M. Pal, Peoples' Union for Civil Liberties, New Delhi
Rehana Patel, University of South Carolina
Prof. Sheldon Pollock, University of Chicago
Prof. Gyan Prakash, Princeton University
Hem Ramachandran, University of Texas
Mallika Ramdas, Columbia University
Dr. Raghu Rangarajan, University of Callifornia, Santa Barbara
Basav Sen, University of Texas
Gautam Sethi, University of Callifornia, Berkeley
Prof. S. Shankar, Rutgers University
Manjit Singh, Maryland
Paramjit Singh, Georgia
Tej-Preet Singh, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Satinder Pal Singh, Berkeley
Suminderpal Singh, University of Wisconsin
Virinder Singh, Columbia University
V. Siddharth, New York University
Kripa Sundar, Buffalo
Dr. Nandini Sundar, University of Edinburgh
R. Subramaniam, Carleton University
Vanita Varma, University of Toronto
Dr. Urvashi Vij, Imperial College, London

_________________________________________________________________ 
To add your name to this appeal, or to make a donation towards
publicising it, please contact:

ASSOCIATION OF INDIAN PROGRESSIVE STUDY GROUPS
Email: siddharthv at delphi.com
SMail: Earl Hall, Columbia University, New York, NY 10027
Telephone/Fax: (212) 749-5719
 





From magier at intac.com  Thu Nov  3 18:01:16 1994
From: magier at intac.com (David Magier)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 94 13:01:16 -0500
Subject: "Self-Alienated Hindus"
Message-ID: <161227017687.23782.6708783700077223768.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> There is a new breed of increasingly *Westernized* Hindus 
> ...this breed of self-alienated Hindus ...But the truth is that Hindu
> society is neither dead nor yet extinct; though many on this forum
> seemingly would like it to be so...Westernized self-alienated Hindus..
> And it is the educated, soft-spoken, Westernized Hindu who
> has generally shown the greatest degree of vehemence against his own Hindu
> society ...

I know I'll probably regret this later, but I can't help noticing a 
similarity here to another 'ethnic phenomenon': when moderate Jews spoke out 
against the oppression of Palestinians by Israel, Zionist extremists 
dismissed them as 'self-hating Jews' and even as 'anti-semitic Jews'. 
Some even claimed that their political stance against the Israeli 
treatment of Palestinians meant that they 'weren't really Jews at all'. 
As if such educated, soft-spoken analysis of the wrongness of ethnic 
intolerance were fundamentally incompatible with their own membership in 
their ethnic group!


David Magier
Columbia University
 





From razdan at ntd.comsat.com  Thu Nov  3 19:28:28 1994
From: razdan at ntd.comsat.com (Rajender Razdan)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 94 14:28:28 -0500
Subject: VHP and United Way
Message-ID: <161227017689.23782.13286308219188122216.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


     While I quite agree that Indology might not be a suitable forum for
debate over VHP and VHP-A activities; since the issue has been raised; 
before it is closed I'd like to add my voice to present a different
picture than the one that was presented by Shri Lance Nelson. 

     I personally have contributed in the past (and still continue to
contribute) my own money to VHP-A under the auspicies of the United Way
program and have been very pleased with the work they have performed.
Hindu society has often been criticized for its lack of social welfare
programs- in this regard the VHP-A is one of the few Hindu organizations
which has worked tirelessly for the cause of the needy in India. Whether
it be helping the victims of earthquakes, as in Maharashtra last year; or
in providing relief for the displaced Kashmiri Pandit families languishing
in the camps in Jammu or for its numerous literacy programs all across
India, the VHP-A has performed outstandingly. 

    It is, therefore, quite shocking to see the vehemency with which VHP
and the VHP-A organizations have been attacked; and this type of attack
points to a polarization within the Hindu society. There is a new breed of
increasingly *Westernized* Hindus (many of whom dabble in the Indology
forum) that seems to have come up; a breed which seems to be sadly out of
touch with the reality of Hindu society. The Hinduism that this breed of
self-alienated Hindus would like to deal with is that of a sanitized or
dead society. But the truth is that Hindu society is neither dead nor yet
extinct; though many on this forum seemingly would like it to be so. Hindu
society is, instead, in the process of redefining and reshaping itself.
The vicious anti-VHP and anti-VHP-A tirade orchestrated by these
self-appointed judges of morality is aimed directly at Hindu society. We
are told that since VHP supported the building of the Rama mandir at
Ayodhya at the very spot where the Babri Masjid stands; and that because
some of their supporters actually took part in tearing down the Babri
structure, that as a consequence the VHP should be deemed a most rabid 
militant and fundamentalist organization. 

     What is left unspoken by these Westernized self-alienated Hindus is
that the Babri Masjid has been a disputed site for over a century; that no
muslim ever went there for prayers or offered Namaz there for over 40
years and that Hindus have claimed it as the birthplace of Lord Rama for
centuries.  To add to this, the Babri structure, to Hindus, is a symbol of
one of the most oppressive periods in Indian history; i.e. the Mohammedan
conquest of India typified by Babar who is supposed to have laid this
structure over an existing temple. 

    I mention all this, because there has been very little analysis and
discussion of the Babri Masjid issue in the Western press; except to paint
a caricature of Hindus as being militant or fundamentalist (whatever that
may be). And it is the educated, soft-spoken, Westernized Hindu who has
generally shown the greatest degree of vehemence against his own Hindu
society by choosing to remain silent on all the details of the Babri
Masjid episode. 

   Hindus are grappling with numerous issues today; those of identity, how
to interact with the myriad of cultures and religions that make up the
great melting-pot of civilization which we call India, etc. It is in-
evitable that these issues, though essentially religious and personal,
will be played out on the political stage. VHP of India does both politi-
cal and cultural work, and gets a large amount of criticism from its
detractors.  Some of the criticism is fair, but a large amount of the
criticism is quite patently unfair.  Being a political entity, this is not
something that can be avoided. The same is not true of VHP of America
(VHP-A) which is ONLY a religious and cultural entity and not a political
entity.  The VHP-A has taken great pains to show that it is in no way
connected with the VHP-I. It has kept up-to-date records to prove that not
a single cent obtained by VHP-A has been passed on to VHP-I. It, there-
fore, is incumbent upon the accusers of VHP-A to provide proof of its
connection with VHP-I; beyond just pure innuendo. 

     Meanwhile, the people engaged in trying to pull down the VHP-A are
guilty of the worst form of character assasination towards an organization
which has selflessly devoted its time, efforts and energy to some of the
most worthy causes. 

Rajender Razdan
 





From razdan at ntd.comsat.com  Thu Nov  3 20:59:33 1994
From: razdan at ntd.comsat.com (Rajender Razdan)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 94 15:59:33 -0500
Subject: "Self-Alienated Hindus"
Message-ID: <161227017690.23782.13499005382820995219.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Thu, 3 Nov 1994, David Magier wrote:

> > There is a new breed of increasingly *Westernized* Hindus 
> > ...this breed of self-alienated Hindus ...But the truth is that Hindu
> > society is neither dead nor yet extinct; though many on this forum
> > seemingly would like it to be so...Westernized self-alienated Hindus..
> > And it is the educated, soft-spoken, Westernized Hindu who
> > has generally shown the greatest degree of vehemence against his own Hindu
> > society ...
> 
> I know I'll probably regret this later, but I can't help noticing a 
> similarity here to another 'ethnic phenomenon': when moderate Jews spoke out 
> against the oppression of Palestinians by Israel, Zionist extremists 
> dismissed them as 'self-hating Jews' and even as 'anti-semitic Jews'. 
> Some even claimed that their political stance against the Israeli 
> treatment of Palestinians meant that they 'weren't really Jews at all'. 
> As if such educated, soft-spoken analysis of the wrongness of ethnic 
> intolerance were fundamentally incompatible with their own membership in 
> their ethnic group!
> 
> 
> David Magier
> Columbia University
>  

Your point is well taken, David. And you may be quite right about such a
thing as a self-alienated Jew! But, aside from the use of the same term,
i.e. self-alienated, the similarity stretches thin. There is no oppression
of the kind you talk about (such as the case of Palestinians in Israel) in
India; nor does the VHP make any statements to the effect that all mosques
in India should be turned into temples; as its detractors would have you
believe.  The Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), as its name suggests, is
primarily a party working for the upliftment of the Hindu people and Hindu
culture. The VHP is not a reaction to Islam or Christianity in India. If
so, there wouldn't be any reason for them to have overseas branches. There
is no doubt that the VHP is a political organization and that it reflects
the aspirations and causes of Hindus. As a Hindu political organization,
the VHP of India has taken up the Hindu cause in the Ram Janam Bhumi/Babri
Masjid controversy;  an issue of contention in India for over a century
now. The VHP has made no bones about its stance favoring the installation
of a Hindu temple in place of the Babri Masjid structure. One may, or may
not agree with them on this issue;  and one is free to exercise one's
judgment on this. But to turn around and term the organization as being
fundamentalist and what not, is sheer hypocrisy. What I term as the
self-alienated Hindus are the people who reject any political party which
dares to append the name *hindu* to itself, or dares to take up any cause
in favor of Hindus. For Hindus to stand up for their own rights is
absolutely anathema to this group of people.  Worse still is their vicious
attack on the VHP-A which is an organization having absolutely no
political agenda. The VHP-A is has dedicated itself to helping the needy
in India; and it has undertaken many wonderful social upliftment programs
that it has run over the years, programs that their detractors themselves
are loathe to do!! For these self-styled moralists to sully the good name
of a perfectly legal and honest organization; just because they dare add
Hindu to their name, is the height of moral bankruptcy-- the term "self-
alienated Hindus" fits them to a T. 

Rajender Razdan


 





From 0005614754 at mcimail.com  Fri Nov  4 00:14:00 1994
From: 0005614754 at mcimail.com (Mantra Corporation)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 94 19:14:00 -0500
Subject: VHP and United Way
Message-ID: <161227017696.23782.2099426720774935933.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Namaste!  Wrote, in part, Narayan Sriranga Raja:
 
> . . . to mix politics and religion.  
> I wish they would recover from this Islamization and return 
> to being normal, non-political, traditional Hindus.
> Let Hinduism be your religion, not your profession.
 
I submit that Hinduism predates the difference between what is
religious and what is not and that it encompasses all aspects
of individual, cultural and societal life -- including politics.
Why must this latter-day tendency to divide a whole be permitted
to survive?
 
Deepavali Greetings!
 
*-=Om Shanti=-*  Jai Maharaj   0005614754 at mcimail.com

 





From z900672a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us  Fri Nov  4 04:13:39 1994
From: z900672a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (The Skeptic)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 94 23:13:39 -0500
Subject: Political postings
Message-ID: <161227017694.23782.13118190312075244781.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I am disturbed by the two recent postings which are purely political 
propaganda and emotional outbursts only.
As most readers are aware, there are other lists more suited to such 
topics, i. Hindu-d and India-d. There is no reason to spill over 
emotional issues here. I would prefer some quiet discussion here.
As far as VHP issue is concerned, there are already several purely and 
patently religious organizations that are supported by Unite Way and that 
is one of the reasons I do not contribute to United Way. The other reason is 
the waste and misuse of funds by its administrators. But those who do 
contribute to it should  not object to the inclusion of another religious 
group howsoever disagreeable that may be to you. You have the right to not 
contribute to the United Way.
The same thing goes about the posting about the so called 1984 Massacre. 
There was no massacre at all and the action taken by Indira Gandhi was 
too late and in any case it cost her her life. What more these people 
want by signing petitions etc? 
I think, it has been a tragedy of politics in India that it has been 
involved in religious affairs starting with M.Gandhi to the present day. 
Why do they have to have special laws for different religions? Why did 
M.Gandhi support Khalfat which was a purely religious issue? India was 
the first country to ban Satanic Verses and amend its constitution after Shah 
Bano case. The VHP is not the only party that is playing religious game.
Let us not play the same games here in US or the internet.

 





From pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu  Fri Nov  4 16:53:22 1994
From: pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu (pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 08:53:22 -0800
Subject: VHP and United Way (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017699.23782.6829351608510852582.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Indology List
indology at Liverpool.ac.uk
 
Dear Members,
 
I disagree with Vinod Nair and Aditya Mishra.
 
I think it is not inappropriate for scholars to be aware of
political issues and activities in the world around them. The
message posted by Lance Nelson didn't make it into most
newspapers and many news lists (such as India-L; I don't know
about India-D, where, indeed, it would be most appropriately
placed). To say that it was already posted in "pakistani and
muslim groups" has its own assumptions.
 
Indology is not just any LIST with "Indo" in its title.  It takes
the name of a discipline with considerable authority in the world
and which has, from its beginnings in the 19th C., been
associated with a rather narrowly conservative definition of what
"Indo" represents. Today it is a discipline which is responding
to criticism and trying (in many countries: Germany, America,
England ...) to broaden its perspective. 
 
While I agree that the LIST need not take up pro/con debate of
the activities of the VHP in America (or any other country) I
don't see why informational postings should be censored (edited,
maybe, but not censored).  
 
It seems to me that precisely in the context of this LIST & the
academic history of Indology, ignoring VHP (and other relevant
political groups') activities is potentially at least as strong a
statement as acknowledging them. Given the history of the
discipline, many members of the LIST, I suspect, are as concerned
with the collective damage silent association with conservative
groups can do to the discipline as hurt feelings are to Mr. Nair.
 
I would vote in favor of such postings; I even learned much about
the intellectual climate of Indians living abroad that I would
not have discovered otherwise through the correspondence
initiated by Mr. Karanth's words. A lot of good came out of that.
 
 
 
Peter J. Claus                        
fax: 510-727-2276
Phone: 510-704-9636     
pclaus at csuhayward.edu

 





From sunder at crystal.cirrus.com  Fri Nov  4 14:54:42 1994
From: sunder at crystal.cirrus.com (Srinivas Sunder)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 08:54:42 -0600
Subject: Political postings
Message-ID: <161227017697.23782.849761738672416230.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


i) I think Aditya Mishra has confused Operation Bluestar with the the massacre
of the Sikh citizenry of Delhi post Indira Gandhi's assassination. The petition
posted by Siddarth V. was a request that action be finally taken against the
alleged perpetrators of THAT massacre, not Bluestar.

ii) India did not amend its Constitution after the Shah Bano case; it merely
enacted a law (which requires only a simple majority of both Houses of
Parliament, not a 2/3 majority of each House), which it was within its
Constitutional rights to do.

This notwithstanding, I agree with his contention that Indology is the least 
suitable forum for such discussions. I find the discussions about whether Manu 
and Medhathithi were referring to people with haemorrhoids or creatures with 
their eyes at the wrong end more fascinating and illuminating.

Y'all have a nice day.

Srinivas Sunder
Austin, TX, USA
 





From SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU  Fri Nov  4 18:10:59 1994
From: SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU (SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 12:10:59 -0600
Subject: More questions about technical subjects
Message-ID: <161227017701.23782.5484903742533933191.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

        With, once again, the aim of getting a little help, and encouraging
*scholarly* discussion on this list, I ask a series of questions, begging
the help of my learned colleagues.  (A similar attempt recently did not
garner much response, to my disappointment, but my heartfelt thanks to
those of you who did send me hints, on the list or privately).  Now:

1)      In the _Divyaavadaana_  (Cowell and Neil ed.) 258.8-10 we find the
following:  aham evopaaya.m sa.mvidhaasye ityuktvaa vi.sam aadaaya
samitaayaa.m ni"srayitvaa ma.n.diilakaan paktvaanye 'pi ca nirvi.saa.h
paktaa.h /.  "Saying 'I myself shall arrange the means,' she mixed poison
with wheat flour and cooked *sweetmeats, and she cooked some others also
without poison."  Question:  what does ma.n.diilaka mean?  I cannot find
the term anywhere.  Should it be connected with ma.n.daka (a thin pancake
or kind of baked flour), or Hindi / Marathi maa.mra (a thin pancake)?

2)      A few lines after the previous passage we find:  pa"scaat tena
pitraa saardham ekaphalaayaa.m bhu?jataa tasya pitu.h savi.saa
ma.n.diilakaa dattaa aatmanaa nirvi.saa.h prabhak.sitaa.h / yato 'sya pitaa
taan savi.saan ma.n.diilakaan bhak.sayitvaa m.rta.h /  "Then later together
with his father, while eating *on a single plank,* he gave his father
poisonous sweetmeats and himself ate the nonpoisonous ones.  Then his
father, having eaten those poisonous sweetmeats, died."  Question:  what
does ekaphalaayaa.m mean?

3)      Again, a few lines below:  pa"scaat tair i.s.tasnigdhasuh.ridbhir
ba.nigbhi.h "socayitvaa yat tat tu ki.mcit tasya ba.nijo bhaa.n.dam aasiid
dhira.nyasuvar.na.m vaa tat tasya daarakasya dattam /  "Later, the merchant
was lamented by those merchants, beloved loving friends ---- but whatsoever
merchandise or gold or valuables that merchant had, that was given to the
boy."  Something seems wrong with the Skt.  Any suggestions?

4)      259.20-22:  sa daarako guu.dha"satro bhutvaarhanta.m bhojayitu.m
<add aarabdo?> maatraa saha nirjana.m g.rha.m k.rtvaa sa caarhadbhik.sur
bhuktvaa tasmaad g.rhaad vi"srabdhacaarakrame.na pratinirgata.h /  "The boy
having concealed a weapon began to feed the saint, *and with his mother
dismissed the servants.*  The saint-monk having eaten confidently
proceeding departed from that house."  I cannot understand maatraa saha
nirjana.m g.rha.m k.rtvaa.  Any help?

5)      260.2-3:  The son, criticizing his mother, says:  amba
niv.rttaved.r"saad do.saat /  "Mother!  Turn back from this fault (such a
fault as this)!"  niv.rttava must be a 2nd sing. imperative, but I cannot
cite a parallel formation.  I assume it is from ni-v.t:  *nivu.t.tati >
*nivu.t.tasva > niv.rttasva??  Any suggestions?

6)      _Mahaavastu_ (Senart) I.244.1-2:  ta.m putrasnehena nivaareti maa
tatra paaradaariko ti k.rtvaa bhaatayi.syati //.  I cannot understand what
is going on exactly.  The previous sentence says:  "[Meghadatta] fell in
love with another man's wife, whom he visited early and late."  Then our
sentences:  "[Her] mother kept him away out of affection for her child."
So far this is OK.  But the next part seems to mean:  "Thinking 'I hope
there is no adulterer here,' [or else?] I will kill him."  There are no
significant variants.  Any suggestions?

7)      In the _Kathaako"sa_  (edited by I. Hoffmann, trans. Tawney)
appears the term Candrahaasaa as a sort of wine.  "Sabdakalpadruma defines
the word as gu.duucii, but since this is a poisonous plant (cocculus
cordifolius =? cocculus indicus?), it seems unlike to be a source of wine.
Candrahaasaa means that which mocks the moon in clarity, so is it some sort
of clear liquor?

8)      In the same story a cock tears open the finger of Ko.nita, which is
how he gets his name.  The term for what happens to the finger is kuu.nita,
which BR has as "zusammengezorgen, eingeschnuert."  Tawney rendered
"whitlow," and Hoffmann "Der finger begann zu faulen."  If the word is
taken to be etymologically Skt., would not it be from kuu.n?  The sense
then should be something like atrophy, not inflammation, right?  In Pkt.
(Sheth) the word is given as equivalent to sa.mkocita, contracted,
shriveled up."  Any suggestions?

I hope this is more fun than political nonsense, and look forward to the
kind and generous assistance of my colleagues in cyberspace.

Jonathan Silk
SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU


 





From rum at hotlan.att.com  Fri Nov  4 19:41:00 1994
From: rum at hotlan.att.com (rum at hotlan.att.com)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 14:41:00 -0500
Subject: VHP and United Way (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017706.23782.17161259310157266561.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


I add my mite in keeping this forum clean and academic, and have watched the
contrast in the responses to Mr. Karanth's posting, (of which I'm not
necessarily in agreement), and lack thereof to Mr. Nelson's.

I really enjoy the academic and intellectual discussion on this group but
am disappointed at the repeated attempts to politicise it.

I suggest that Mr. Nelson move his feelings and opinions on Indian
organizations to the unrestrained, ever entertaining, shocking, never
boring soc.culture.indian newsgroup.

I represent no one except myself in this posting.


M. V. Ramana
HO 2B-434A
(908)949-0170
munagala.ramana at att.com

 





From SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU  Fri Nov  4 20:50:03 1994
From: SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU (SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 14:50:03 -0600
Subject: VHP and United Way (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017707.23782.6059367380004128920.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

        I agree strongly with Peter  Claus's recent posting, and most
especially his comment that:

> Given the history of the
>discipline, many members of the LIST, I suspect, are ... concerned
>with the collective damage silent association with conservative
>groups can do to the discipline...

        I think we might go farther, and say that as scholars and therefore
-- at least in theory! -- potentially voices of authority in our local
communities and in the world community, there are many areas in which we
must, as responsible members of society, speak out.  I would modify Claus's
statement, however, and suggest that it is not only association with (some)
conservative groups that might be problematic, but with various groups of
all sorts of stripes and colors.
        Not to be extreme, but if we are honest we must, I think, recall
the stands taken by many Indologists in Hitler's Europe, and in post-war
Germany, Austria, etc. -- and recall this with shame if not with outright
anger and indignation.  (I hasten to add that I do NOT mean to claim that
the VHP should be compared to the Nazi party or any such thing; I am
entirely ignorant of the nature of the VHP, its stands, history, etc.  My
point has only to do with the necessity of scholars informing themselves
and, once informed, taking public and visible stands on issues of concern
not only to us as scholars who -- concentrating our lives on classical
India -- to some extent live in a distant past , but also as individuals
who live very much in the present and will (we hope) live in a future -- a
future that it is up to us to shape.
        I am sorry if this sounds too much like a civics lecture or a
sermon, but I cannot fathom how it should be possible for us, as putative
specialists in the culture and civilization of India, to say "it is none of
our business."

(By the same token, as my posting of earlier today suggested, I hope we
also do not forget that we are here *also* for the purposes of scholarly
exchange, which has been sorely lacking of late.)


Jonathan Silk
SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU


 





From dran at cs.albany.edu  Fri Nov  4 19:52:39 1994
From: dran at cs.albany.edu (Paliath Narendran)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 14:52:39 -0500
Subject: Political postings
Message-ID: <161227017702.23782.15942478664875278603.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


> As most readers are aware, there are other lists more suited to such 
> topics, i. Hindu-d and India-d. There is no reason to spill over 
             ^^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^
What are these? How does one access them?

Thanks,
Narendran
 





From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu  Fri Nov  4 22:39:33 1994
From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (rrocher at sas.upenn.edu)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 17:39:33 -0500
Subject: quitting
Message-ID: <161227017704.23782.12068697696367293290.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Once before I pleaded that we keep this list strictly scholarly. 
The current renewed spate of political controversy prompts me to  
take a vacation from this network. May I make the following requests:

(1) would this list's manager kindly unsubscribe me for the time being?

(2) would those who wish any items of scholarly discussion to come to 
my attention please address their messages directly to me? 

Rosane Rocher
rrocher at mail.sas.upenn.edu
 





From JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU  Fri Nov  4 18:48:25 1994
From: JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU (J.B. Sharma)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 18:48:25 +0000
Subject: quitting
Message-ID: <161227017709.23782.2494275721568682940.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Once before I pleaded that we keep this list strictly scholarly. 
The current renewed spate of political controversy prompts me to  
take a vacation from this network. May I make the following requests:

(1) would this list's manager kindly unsubscribe me for the time being?

(2) would those who wish any items of scholarly discussion to come to 
my attention please address their messages directly to me? 

Rosane Rocher
rrocher at mail.sas.upenn.edu
-------------------------- 
... but Rosane, this statement in itself is so unscholarly, and oh so 
political !
Regards,
J.B. Sharma
 





From JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU  Fri Nov  4 21:02:07 1994
From: JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU (J.B. Sharma)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 21:02:07 +0000
Subject: VHP and United Way (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017711.23782.5823394745335763884.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Folks,
 Individual political leanings are a personal imperative, and even 
though I may not agree with the words of David Ludden I have no 
objection to his points of view. I agree with the observations that 
if Dileep Karanth's postings have invoked consistent vitriolic 
responses for politicizing the net, the silence in this case is a 
damning indictment of these brokers of pristine scholarly exchange. 
This also renders legitimacy to Dileep's postings, as this
time political stances have been espoused by formal Indological 
scholars from reputed institutions. A debate is never complete 
without all the points of view being duly considered.

 Here is my point of view on VHP of America; I have been looking for 
a place where my son can begin his Hindi and Sanskrit lessons. Last 
month I found out that VHP has a temple and cultural center in 
Atlanta, along with a "Bal Vihar" where children can learn Hindi and 
Sanskrit. VHP-A has cultural shows religious festivities etc, which 
help a lot of Indian-American families to maintain their culture 
while being very productive members of the new world. So Ludden has 
painted me and many others like me as a frothing in the mouth fanatic
and would like to campaign to malign/remove the institution which 
allows us a place of fellowship, and my son a place to learn the 
memories of his ancestors. To say that this is against the grain of 
America is an understatement. 

  VHP-A is a purely religious organisation. It consists of Hindu 
diaspora in North America and consists of people who wish to preserve 
Hindu Dharma in their lives. Not all Hindus following Dharma are 
necessarily members of VHP (like myself). It is no diffrent than 
the Baptist Convention, World Jewish Congress or any other religious 
organization. It is a lie that VHP-A fundraises for violence in 
India and can open up a defamation suit. These untruths have been 
pushed on some networks, where in the same breath money is solicited 
for buying AK-47's, grenades with explicit price lists ! And now, 
this has the endorsement from the head of the dept in South Asian 
Studies at UPenn ! 

 Religious violence in India is steeped in its history, and some of 
VHP-I 's stances are symptoms of the disease, but not the disease 
itself. I do not support the goons who tore down an unused mosque; the 
time for heroics was when Babar attacked. Of course, in retaliation 
hundreds of beautiful Hindu temples were destroyed in Pakistan and 
Bangladesh nary a sound was uttered in the media, or by these brokers 
of fairness. 

 The Turkish conquest of India perhaps a holocaust unparalelled 
in the history of man (Will Durant); a systematic attempt to 
annihilate the Hindu culture remained in progress for centuries. In 
Modern India, Hindu people have tasted a breath of freedom and 
empowerment of destiny after centuries of slavery. The trauma of 
being at the recieving end of severe atrocity needs to be exorcised 
such that the suppressed rage and grief of centuries does not become a 
destructive force. However so long as this halocaust is not openly 
discussed, India will continue to be haunted by the cries of the 
millions slaughtered over time. A healing purpose similar to this is 
served by the Jewish halocaust memorial in Wasington DC. There are 
those of course say that this just never happened, and folks of this 
ilk deny the Hindu Halocaust as well. The horror of it is that it is 
still happening as thousands of Kashmiri pandits have been driven out 
of their ancestral land, and I have not heard of any concern for this 
event which is the most dangerous to the fabric of Indian society.

 The unsightliness of Indian history is no reflection on the millions 
of law abiding and productive Muslims who continue to make 
contributions in all spheres Indian life. It is for the well being of 
the entire subcontinent that the history of the past thousand years 
be clearly visited and publicly discussed. This would go a long way 
to defuse the acrimony accumulated over centuries, and scholars such 
as on this list have the wherewithall to impart a noble impulse to 
that end. But I am coming to see that many scholars of South Asia are 
out of touch of the realities on the ground, and are more attached to 
a certain paradigms around which revolve peer review, funding, 
tenure, promotion etc. These folks get very upset if anything other 
than feeding on the cadavers of ancient Indian literature is 
discussed.

 Last of all, I do agree with the observation of Peter Claus of the 
relevance of scholarly discussions of modern India, as there remains 
an organic graft between the past, present, and the future of its 
culture. Because of the ancient unbroken traditions traditions of 
india are rooted in its past, a group such as this can contribute to 
shed light to guide its future. Thanks to Lance Nelson for being the 
instigator of the discussion. This forum has introduced me to issues 
I would have never known otherwise.

All the best,
J.B. Sharma 











 





From clopez at husc.harvard.edu  Sat Nov  5 20:11:34 1994
From: clopez at husc.harvard.edu (Carlos Lopez)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 94 15:11:34 -0500
Subject: quitting
Message-ID: <161227017714.23782.4745285476518613880.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



On Sat, 5 Nov 1994 yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp wrote:

> Now I think I was clever when I decided to keep my old e-mail address
> exclusively for the <indlogy> discussion group and the new one for 
> ordinary e-mails. If I had only one address I should have missed some
> important personal messages amid the floof of those political 
> propagandas.
> 
> I wish someone like Dominik open another discussion group for
> 'Sanskrit studies'.
> 
> Michio YANO
> Professor of Sanskrit,
> Kyoto Sangyo University
> yanom at cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp
> yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (for indology only)
>  
> 
I must agree with Prof. Yano.  As a graduate student in the field, I find 
these political propagandas useless.  Since i have been on this list, i 
have found scholarly discussions useful.  Everytime one of these 
non-schalarly items enters the list, it generates this very same 
discussion.  I believe, that those who monitor the list should try to 
keep useless materials out.  This list should focus on what it was meant 
for : a forum for discussion of scholarly material of the study of 
ancient India.

Thanks

Carlos Lopez
G4
Harvard University
Dept. of Sanskrit and Indian Studies
 





From bedell at cse.bridgeport.edu  Sun Nov  6 02:34:54 1994
From: bedell at cse.bridgeport.edu (bedell at cse.bridgeport.edu)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 94 21:34:54 -0500
Subject: South Asian GLB bibliography
Message-ID: <161227017718.23782.14047300565668667300.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Here is an updated bibliography on hijras and homosexuality in South
Asian culture.  Any additional suggestions are welcome.

David Bedell, University of Bridgeport <bedell at cse.bridgeport.edu>

===============================================================================
ENGLISH-LANGUAGE BOOKS AND FILMS ON SOUTH ASIAN GAY/LESBIAN/BISEXUAL TOPICS
Revised 11/05/94.
Compiled by David Bedell, University of Bridgeport <bedell at cse.bridgeport.edu>
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Note:  This document is part of an international bibliography available from |
|the QRD archive (Queer Resources Directory).  It can be retrieved by         |
|anonymous ftp from vector.casti.com using the pathname pub/QRD/world/        |
|international.lgb.bibliography.  Or send e-mail to <ftpmail at vector.casti.com>|
|with a message of three lines:                                               |
|                                                                             |
|open                                                                         |
|get pub/QRD/world/international.lgb.bibliography                             |
|quit                                                                         |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

INDIA AND SOUTH ASIA:

Ackerley, J. R.  Hindoo Holiday:  An Indian Journal.  New York:  Simon &
 Schuster, 1990.  British gay author's account of his life as secretary and
 confidant to an Indian maharajah.  (First published in 1932.)

Devi, Shakuntala.  The World of Homosexuals.  New Delhi:  Vikas Publishing
 House, 1977.

Harry, Joseph, & Das, Man Singh, eds.  Homosexuality in International
 Perspective.  New Delhi:  Vikas Publishing House, 1980.

Kakar, Sudhir.  Intimate Relations:  Exploring Indian Sexuality.  Chicago:
 University of Chicago Press, 1990.

Kala, Arvind.  Invisible Minority:  The Unknown World of the Indian Homosexual.
 New Delhi:  Dynamic, n.d.

Kalliat, Prem, director.  Jareena:  Portrait of a Hijra.  New York:  Third
 World Newsreel, 1990.  A 25-minute documentary exploring the life of a
 transsexual and her community in South India. 

Kureishi, Hanif.  The Buddha of Suburbia.  New York:  Viking Penguin, 1990.
 In this satiric view of 1960s-70s English popular culture, an Anglo-Indian
 bisexual man leaves the suburban lifestyle to experience disparate cultures,
 classes, and genders.

Kureishi, Hanif.  My Beautiful Laundrette and The Rainbow Sign.  Boston: 
 Faber and Faber, 1986.  "Laundrette" is the screenplay of Kureishi's film
 about a romance between an Anglo-Pakistani and a London skinhead.

Lapierre, Dominique.  The City of Joy, trans. from French by Kathryn Spink.
 Garden City, NY:  Doubleday, 1985.  Set in Calcutta; includes a description
 of the hijras and their origins.

Less than Gay:  A Citizens' Report on the Status of Homosexuality in India.
 New Delhi:  AIDS Bhedbhav Virodhi Andolan, 1991.

Meer, Ameena.  Bombay Talkie.  New York:  Serpent's Tail, 1994.  Novel
 about two Indian cousins' search for identity:  one is a straight woman
 who grew up in New York, the other a gay man who grew up in Paris. 

Mootoo, Shani.  Out on Main Street and Other Stories.  Vancouver:  Press Gang
 Publishers, 1993.  Stories by an Indo-Trinidadian-Canadian lesbian.

Namjoshi, Suniti.  Because of India:  Selected Poems and Fables.  London: 
 Only Woman, 1989.  These essays and excerpts from Namjoshi's work provide
 insight into her development both as a writer and as a person. 

Namjoshi, Suniti.  The Conversations of Cow.  London:  Women's Press, 1985.
 One of the characters is a "misogynistic lesbian."

Namjoshi, Suniti.  Feminist Fables, 2d ed.  London:  Sheba Feminist
 Publishers, 1990.  Explicitly lesbian content in the form of terse, witty
 fables. 

Namjoshi, Suniti.  Flesh and Paper.  New York:  Women Make Movies, 1990. 
 A 26-minute film in which lesbian writer Namjoshi and others discuss her life
 and work, with readings of her poetry.  Born into an Indian royal family,
 She now resides in England.  Her poems, fables, and novels are characterized
 by her wry and satirical humor, informed by both a lesbian consciousness and
 a deep Indian cultural framework. 
 
Nanda, Serena.  Neither Man nor Woman:  The Hijras of India.  Belmont, CA:
 Wadsworth Publishing Company, 1990.  Study of the eunuchs and transsexuals of
 India.

Parmar, Pratibha, producer & director.  Khush.  New York:  Women Make Movies,
 1991.  A 24-minute videorecording of interviews with South Asian gay men and
 lesbians living in the West and in India.  Discussion covers topics of racism
 within the Western gay community; the difficulty of developing an Asian vs. a
 white concept of homosexuality; the cultural pressure to marry; persecution of
 gay men in India; and the implications of caste barriers in the efforts to
 build a united gay and lesbian Indian community.

Ratti, Rakesh, ed.  A Lotus of Another Color:  An Unfolding of the South Asian
 Gay and Lesbian Experience.  Boston:  Alyson Publications, 1993.  Gay men and
 lesbians from India, Pakistan, and other South Asian countries discuss their
 challenges and accomplishments.

Selvadurai, Shyam.  Funny Boy.  Toronto:  McClelland & Stewart, 1994.  A
 homosexual boy's bittersweet passage to maturity is hauntingly set against
 growing political tensions in Sri Lanka. 

Sharma, Satish Kumar.  Hijras, the Labelled Deviants.  New Delhi:  Gian
 Publishing House, 1989.  Analytical study on the congenital hermaphrodites and
 castrated eunuchs of India.

Singh, Khushwant, & De, Shobha, eds.  Uncertain Liasons:  Sex, Strife, and
 Togetherness in Urban India.  New Delhi:  Viking Penguin, 1993.  Includes a
 section on homosexuality by Ashok Row Kavi.

Vyas, M. D., & Shingala, Yogesh.  The Life Style of the Eunuchs.  Flushing, NY:
 Asia Book Corporation of America, 1987.  A study of the hijras of Vadodara
 City, Gujarat, India.

Yorke, Michael, director.  Eunuchs:  India's Third Gender.  BBC?, 1991.
 A 40-minute, made-for-BBC look at some of the more than half a million
 eunuchs--or hijras--in India today.  This film captures the pleasures
 and contradictions of a living alternative to Western ideas about gender. 
 





From yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp  Sat Nov  5 12:54:16 1994
From: yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 94 21:54:16 +0900
Subject: quitting
Message-ID: <161227017712.23782.9508666506827312192.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Now I think I was clever when I decided to keep my old e-mail address
exclusively for the <indlogy> discussion group and the new one for 
ordinary e-mails. If I had only one address I should have missed some
important personal messages amid the floof of those political 
propagandas.

I wish someone like Dominik open another discussion group for
'Sanskrit studies'.

Michio YANO
Professor of Sanskrit,
Kyoto Sangyo University
yanom at cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp
yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (for indology only)
 





From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu  Sun Nov  6 14:55:40 1994
From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (rrocher at sas.upenn.edu)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 94 09:55:40 -0500
Subject: South Asian GLB bibliography
Message-ID: <161227017720.23782.1919478807012825914.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Addition to the South Asian GLB bibliography: 

Singh, Nidhi, producer & director. Khush Refugees. San Francisco: 
Crosscurrent Media, 1991. A 32-minute color video. 

"This film focuses on San Francisco's gay community where two exiles, 
Rahul, an immigrant from India, and Dante, an ex-marine from suburban 
Ohio, try to assimilate in this new `foreign' culture. Singh brackets 
their interracial relationship in an expressive docudrama that combines 
personal vignettes with Indian landscapes, snapshots from home, Castro 
Street scenes, and erotic temple carvings. Particularly intriguing 
are Rahul's witty observations about American culture and his timid 
coming-of-age. This entertaining video work asserts that simply 
departing from the norm can earn one refugee status."
		Steve Reid, Pacific Film Archive

This docudrama also provides sensitive crosscultural perspectives on 
the nature and expression of intimacy. 

Rosane Rocher.
 





From pbilmo at deakin.edu.au  Sat Nov  5 23:54:51 1994
From: pbilmo at deakin.edu.au (purushottama bilimoria)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 94 10:54:51 +1100
Subject: politicisation of `indology'
Message-ID: <161227017716.23782.569882926357769921.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Like many I too joined the network for scholarly discussions and 
interchange, and I too am concerned about the manner in which highly 
emotional and political issues have intervened and eroded the objective 
pursuit of knowledge and understanding. I see both sides of the fench - 
the staunch supporters of the current re-Hinduisation project (variously 
defending the exclusivity and greatness of Hinduism, slipping into VHP 
rhetoric) and the supposedly detached scholars of SOuth Asia who 
apprently have no vested interest in the matter
; most Western trained south asianists or `indologists` would count 
themselves belonging to the latter camp. Why we have lowered our 
standards and entered into the bun-fight in cyberspace has, I believe, 
something to do with our own characterisation as members of a list called 
`Indology'. What is Indology, one may ask, and is different from 
Orientology, which after Said we grudgingly accept was largely a western 
construct of knowledge about the `other'? Now we have a new epithet by 
which we refer to this trade, namely Orientalism. It may be a bit fra 
stretched, but I already ventured (at the IXth World Sanskrit Conference 
in Melbourne) and suggested that there is much in our `discipline` we 
have inherited from the previousd two centuries we call (or refer to as) 
INDOLOGY which has elemnets of Indologism in it. It is this shadow that 
we have not thrown offin its entirely, and it is this that keeps 
intruding into even our most balanced, reflective and non-personal 
judgments as we unconsciously defer to a great deal of presuppositions 
and cultural discourse that have preceded our own scholarship in areas in 
which we stride to make comments. I am writing on Indologism, its roots 
and impact on a range of issues and treatment,particularly in philosophy 
(which is my speciality) through the overbearing interventions of 
philology. (I have copyrighted the term Indologism.) But this is another 
story.

So Iam not surprised that there are periodic outbursts and tirades 
against the reach of Indology; but it detracts from scholarly discussions 
on lesser and more specific pursuits such as questions of etymology, 
texts on this and that, and general information seeking. So there we are,
some self-reflection on the grander pursuits we may not have even 
intended to flag could well be healthy, and can serve other intelelctual 
purposes.

Purushottama Bilimoria
Australia

 





From ZYSK at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU  Mon Nov  7 13:00:52 1994
From: ZYSK at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU (ZYSK at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 09:00:52 -0400
Subject: quitting
Message-ID: <161227017724.23782.10164269321765409553.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Re: Rosane's and Micho's comments and requests. Ditto for me as well.
K. Zysk
Zysk at ACF.NYU.EDU
 





From PHILMOS at VAX2.CONCORDIA.CA  Mon Nov  7 15:02:18 1994
From: PHILMOS at VAX2.CONCORDIA.CA (PHILMOS at VAX2.CONCORDIA.CA)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 10:02:18 -0500
Subject: Politics
Message-ID: <161227017800.23782.16691135817972373883.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Let's keep a little bit of perspective, shall we? A few political
statements hardly make for "the politicisation of Indology". More
time and energy has gone into all the soul searching these statements
have occasioned than into anything I've seen on the list for a long
time. If people are really concerned about this intrusion of politics
into the pristine world of indological scholarship, perhaps a vote
should be held among members to decide whether or not the list
should become moderated (presuming, of course, that someone is willing
to volunteer to fill the role).

Phil Moscovitch
philmos at vax2.concordia.ca
 





From CXEV at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA  Mon Nov  7 15:09:49 1994
From: CXEV at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (Richard P Hayes)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 10:09:49 -0500
Subject: Time to privatize?
Message-ID: <161227017727.23782.6859502949945524994.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A list such as INDOLOGY is both open and unmonitored, which makes it
especially vulnerable to intrusion by people from outside our discipline
who may wish to use it as a cheap pulpit to preach to a captive audience
of about 150 unassuming and innocuous scholars of classical India who
have remarkably little influence in the allegedly real world and who
thrive on their very irrelevance and otiosity. (Perhaps I am being
overly autobiographical, but why anyone would think it worth the effort
to try to interest a Sanskritist in anything other than the correct
interpretation of a rule of Paa.nini is beyond me; and yet there do
appear to be people who, tired perhaps of bungie jumping, like to rise
to this exciting challenge.)

There are many different ways of setting up a discussion group on the
Internet. Any listserv program (and many programs similar to listserv)
can be set up as a closed discussion group, which means that new
subscriptions can be added only by the listserv `owner' (the person
responsible for maintaining the list), and postings can be made only by
duly registered subscribers. Any subscriber who fails to follow the
guidelines for discussion for the group can then be dropped from the
subscription list. In discussion groups I have belonged to, guidelines
have varied from imposing a limit on how long a message may be, to
setting a limit on how many messages any one subscriber can post per day,
to setting very strict limits on what topics may be discussed; anyone
who disregards a first warning about a breach of the guidelines, or of
general courtesy, can simply be dropped from the list by the owner. It
is not unusual for discussion groups, especially in the sciences, to be
restricted in this way. I myself would favour such a private group for
Indologists.

A less restrictive kind of discussion group is one in which subscription
is open to anyone, in which all messages are screened by a monitor
before being forwarded to the whole subscription list. BUDDHA-L is one
example of such a group. Rarely do seriously distracting flame wars
occur on that list; indeed, there would probably be no flame wars at
all if Richard P. Hayes, the list owner, were not so undisciplined and
irresponsible about sending his own incendiary messages out to the wider
public. (Coming from a long line of pastoral thieves, Hayes still seems
to derive some kind of childish pleasure in such capers as getting
people's goats.) Monitoring a list does take time, and it is not the
sort of expenditure of time that translates into academic merit and
prestige in the scholarly community. It's one of those many thankless
tasks that is rarely noticed unless it is done badly, so it is not easy
to find anyone willing to do it. But if INDOLOGY cannot be turned into a
private list, and if a community-minded monitor could be found, I would
favour at least turning this into a monitored forum.

This message will no doubt strike some as a terribly political stance to
take, but such an appraisal will, I suspect, be advanced primarily by
fools.

Richard P. Hayes                                 <cxev at musica.mcgill.ca>
Faculty of Religious Studies              Associate, Dept of Philosophy
McGill University                                      Montreal, Quebec
 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Nov  7 16:29:55 1994
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 11:29:55 -0500
Subject: quitting
Message-ID: <161227017729.23782.15829237827845951674.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	I suppose I would like to stick with Indology until someone 
starts a new group which will be somehow devoted to academic rather than 
political discourse.  If such a group is started, I would not mind 
switching.  
        Madhav Deshpande

On Mon, 7 Nov 1994 ZYSK at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU wrote:

> Re: Rosane's and Micho's comments and requests. Ditto for me as well.
> K. Zysk
> Zysk at ACF.NYU.EDU
>  
> 
 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Nov  7 16:36:53 1994
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 11:36:53 -0500
Subject: VHP and United Way (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017731.23782.6113404670040718280.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	I entirely agree that we as scholars of India need to be fully 
aware of all the political issues both modern and ancient.  I have no 
problem with that.  However, being aware of these issues and discussing 
these issues is significantly different from blatantly advocating certain 
political views.  It is this latter type of behavior that has made the 
traffic on this network more like a soap-box forum.  I hope we can either 
change the "soap-box" character of the discourse, or start a new group.
         Madhav Deshpande

On Mon, 7 Nov 1994 R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk wrote:

> Jonathan Silk is surely correct; it is intellectually naive
> or even dishonest to engage in any study of the humanities,
> such as the culture and civilisation of South Asia, without
> being aware of one's own attitudes and predispositions,
> just as much as one must be aware of the political aspects
> of cultural phenomena in "the other", ie the object of one's
> studies. The difference between a warm, vivid, study full
> of meaning and rich with thought-provoking ideas, and a 
> dry-as-dust sterile exercise is precisely to do with self-
> awareness (knowing our own psychological and political biases)
> as well as paying close attention to those of our subjects;
> and ignoring all these factors in the name of "objectivity".
> We have to allow a certain latitude in "political" comments
> even if we don't want the list to become a soap-box forum.
> Rob
>  
> 
 





From R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk  Mon Nov  7 13:33:59 1994
From: R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk (R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 13:33:59 +0000
Subject: VHP and United Way (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017726.23782.4366391287793123571.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Jonathan Silk is surely correct; it is intellectually naive
or even dishonest to engage in any study of the humanities,
such as the culture and civilisation of South Asia, without
being aware of one's own attitudes and predispositions,
just as much as one must be aware of the political aspects
of cultural phenomena in "the other", ie the object of one's
studies. The difference between a warm, vivid, study full
of meaning and rich with thought-provoking ideas, and a 
dry-as-dust sterile exercise is precisely to do with self-
awareness (knowing our own psychological and political biases)
as well as paying close attention to those of our subjects;
and ignoring all these factors in the name of "objectivity".
We have to allow a certain latitude in "political" comments
even if we don't want the list to become a soap-box forum.
Rob
 





From asher at maroon.tc.umn.edu  Mon Nov  7 19:42:30 1994
From: asher at maroon.tc.umn.edu (Frederick M Asher)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 13:42:30 -0600
Subject: quitting
Message-ID: <161227017733.23782.10083802217607765020.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I'm bothered by the spate of I quit messages.  To assume that what we do 
with our intellectual lives is totally without political ramifications 
seems to me way off base.  Indology may derive its primary stimulus from 
texts of the past--and I include here as text my own primary interest, 
monuments initially constructed in the past--but those texts are 
perpetually reshaped...as much by present-day discourse as by 
ancient interpolations.  I thus don't see the political discussions any 
more out of place in this group than, for example, a debate among art 
historians about an Asokan pillar capital recut during the Gupta period.  
It's just that we're more heavily invested in the current debate.  Rick Asher

 





From SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU  Mon Nov  7 23:25:44 1994
From: SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU (SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 17:25:44 -0600
Subject: None
Message-ID: <161227017736.23782.12867932592215970087.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

        It may seem very selfish of me, but I cannot resist pointing out
that so far NOT ONE of the people who have complained about the
politicization of INDOLOGY have responded to even one of the many technical
questions concerning Sanskrit and Indian studies posted by me to this list
recently, and again in the not too distant past.  With very few exceptions,
moreover, there has been little technical discussion of Indological topics
from any corner of late.
        I am well aware that this list is not the be-all and end-all of the
scholarly lives of its members, but it might carry more weight if those who
complain about even the slightest politicization of the list were actively
participating in the project of making this list into a vital and active
SCHOLARLY forum.  I thought part of the point of this list was to make us
realize that we do not and need not work in a vacuum.
        So, how about some questions, answers, reports of interesting
discoveries, random thoughts -- whatever?  (Years ago there was a section
in the JRAS of "Notes and Queries" -- might not INDOLOGY be a perfect forum
for just such contributions?)

Jonathan Silk
SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU


 





From E.Crangle at mailbox.uq.oz.au  Mon Nov  7 08:29:55 1994
From: E.Crangle at mailbox.uq.oz.au (Edward Crangle)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 18:29:55 +1000
Subject: The animal in religion.
Message-ID: <161227017722.23782.3697631838560030845.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear Listmembers:

If possible, could you please direct me to relevant literature regarding 
the history, religious context, mode of worship etc. of the following:

My students have referred to a recent magazine-style television 
programme which discussed the depiction and role of animals in religion. 
Amongst other things, the documentary showed a particular Hindu temple 
interesting in the least for its veneration of the humble rat: it seems 
that the rodents occupied the temple precinct in their thousands while 
visitors performed their religious duties etc.

I'm told the temple is named Karnidevi (or Karnimata). (I'm guessing with 
the spelling.) It is located at Deshnok, outside Bikaner in Rajasthan. Any 
assistance in this regard would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

Eddie Crangle

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 Dr Edward F. Crangle			E-mail: e.crangle at mailbox.uq.oz.au
 Department of Studies in Religion	Phone:  (7) 3652154
 University of Queensland		Home:   (7) 3719687
 St Lucia				Fax:    (7) 3653071
 Queensland 4072
 Australia
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 





From marcus.banks at anthropology.oxford.ac.uk  Mon Nov  7 20:38:46 1994
From: marcus.banks at anthropology.oxford.ac.uk (marcus.banks at anthropology.oxford.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 20:38:46 +0000
Subject: VHP and United Way (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017734.23782.10206806030338613058.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>[...]The difference between a warm, vivid, study full
>of meaning and rich with thought-provoking ideas, and a
>dry-as-dust sterile exercise is precisely to do with self-
>awareness (knowing our own psychological and political biases)
>as well as paying close attention to those of our subjects;
>and ignoring all these factors in the name of "objectivity".
[...]
>Rob

I have avoided getting embroiled in this discussion so far, not least
because I am not in fact an Indologist. While I too agree with J Silk and
Rob's sentiments, I feel they miss the point. INDOLOGY as I understood it
when I joined has a specific and narrow brief and one that touches on my
professional work as an anthropologist; that is not to say that the
scholars involved don't feel or care about the contemporary implications of
the issues that they discuss. I'm sure that Indology as a discipline or
cluster of disciplines should discuss such issues, but I wasn't under the
impression that INDOLOGY should do so. As others have pointed out, there
are plenty of other forums for such discussions. I do not feel the need to
live out my entire social and academic persona through a single electronic
discussion group, and I have neither the time nor the desire to witness
others doing so.

Marcus Banks


 





From JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU  Mon Nov  7 21:03:23 1994
From: JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU (J.B. Sharma)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 21:03:23 +0000
Subject: VHP and United Way
Message-ID: <161227017737.23782.355769503365694485.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 It is interesting to note that this storm in a teacup brewed only 
after rebuttals were posted to the note which began this thread. That 
note however was followed by a conspicuous silence, and if left 
unchallenged, would have become truth by default. The offended parties 
would obviously have liked it that way.
 Unlike the contention of Richard Hayes, it does matter what leading 
scholars of South Asia may have to say about South Asia. If a 
note is presented with the official title, it carries with it the 
weight of the prestige of the institution. For many who dont know 
enough about South Asia, the slander presented will be regarded as 
the truth. A rebuttal remains within scholarly purview.
 I second Jonathan Silk's pointed observation that instead of 
whining, please light up the net with your intellects, and that 
evanascent scholarly exchange which appears in wisps ! Tantrums and 
threats of quitting do not behoove scholarly dignity.
All the best,
J.B. Sharma 
 





From SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU  Tue Nov  8 04:05:33 1994
From: SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU (SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 22:05:33 -0600
Subject: Clarification of vocabulary
Message-ID: <161227017739.23782.13934771985312479932.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

        I have just read J.B. Sharma's posting in which he attributes to me
the expressions "whining" and "Tantrums".   I  never used  such offensive
words, and am very sorry if I was understood to imply such.  I want to
distance myself thoroughly from the disrespect implied (or perhaps more
than implied!) by the use of such terms, which do NOT reflect my attitude
toward the issue or the scholars who are the authors of opinions with which
I do not necessarily agree.   I hope Dr. Sharma and others will agree that
there is a difference between honest exchange and difference of opinion and
denunciation of those with whom one does not agree as engaging in
"whining" and "Tantrums".    I sincerely apologize to any who, in addition
to Dr. Sharma, might have understood me to imply the attitude he has
attributed to me.  I repudiate it in the strongest possible terms.

Jonathan Silk
SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU


 





From JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU  Tue Nov  8 08:15:19 1994
From: JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU (J.B. Sharma)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 94 08:15:19 +0000
Subject: Clarification of vocabulary
Message-ID: <161227017741.23782.7691236154450875136.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 I accept Jonathan's admonition, and apologize for my impulsive 
language in my previous note. Besides "whining" and "tantrum" I do 
stand by my words. I do promise to behave better in the future ...
With peace to all humankind,
J.B. Sharma
 





From ZYSK at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU  Tue Nov  8 13:05:07 1994
From: ZYSK at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU (ZYSK at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 94 09:05:07 -0400
Subject: Response to Silk
Message-ID: <161227017745.23782.11633075553547047478.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

When I have something to contribute I offer it. When I don't I keep
my mouth shut. 
K. Zysk
 





From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Tue Nov  8 19:06:03 1994
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 94 11:06:03 -0800
Subject: Political dimension of Indology
Message-ID: <161227017749.23782.267239597823575673.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

        Many excellent points have been made in the communications from
Jonathan Silk, Rob Mayer, J.B. Sharma,  Purushottama Bilimoria, and
Frederick M Asher regarding the connection between political issues and
Indology, both as a discipline as a list serve. I hope the scholars who
were thinking of quitting will change their minds (at least until the
reasons adduced by the afore-mentioned scholars are ably controverted),will
(fore)see that any other network they start will not be immune to the
problems they perceive, and will also not lose sight of the good work
INDOLOGY has so far accomplished (despite Jonathan Silk not getting any
help on the very interesting questions he has asked. Sorry, Jonathan, time
is the only consideration that prevents me from reading the texts to which
you refer). 
         The remedy of having a monitored/censored list will be worse than
the perceived problem.
Where will one draw the line? Will I be prevented from observing that
Buddhism disappears from north India as Islam expands there? How could it
be ensured that I become aware of changing paradigms in the field? 
        My experience has been that it does not take more than ten seconds
to eliminate a message one does not wish to read: one can go by the subject
title, the sender's name, or the first few sentences of the message.  The
experience of seeing unwanted or uninteresting messages is no worse than
coming across books with misleading titles in the pursuit of one's research
project.
        One day when more up-to-date histories of our discipline (whatever
its contours and subconsciously accepted assumptions may be) are written,
the very discussions we are having will be ground for historical insights.
Could we have had the discussions without an open network? To separate the
theory of indology from the details of indological questions and findings
is as artificial as separating indology as a discipline from INDOLGY as a
listserve. 

        In the spirit of the above words, I, as one who knows nothing first
hand about VHP, am still interested in knowing what impact, if any,
information and views to the contrary have had on Mr. Nelson's view. Since
he caused the discussion, I think there is some professional ethical
obligation that he should let us know if what the other side has asserted
is correct, incorrect,or  partly correct (if partly correct, to what
extent). 

Ashok Aklujkar

 





From fp7 at columbia.edu  Tue Nov  8 16:29:50 1994
From: fp7 at columbia.edu (Frances Pritchett)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 94 11:29:50 -0500
Subject: A list of fonts for South Asian languages
Message-ID: <161227017747.23782.17410448115920359959.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear friends and colleagues,

There are so many queries about fonts that it will obviously be a 
convenience to have a list of them in a single place.  We at Columbia are 
ready to offer our South Asia Gopher to be such a place.  Since so 
far nobody truly competent has volunteered to maintain such a list, I'm 
willing to give it a go despite my amateurishness.  I've pulled 
together a draft list consisting of all the material I've seen on this 
network and elsewhere.  I've sent around copies already to everybody 
whose material appears on the list.  Soon I'll be sending around a final 
draft to the Indology network, before placing the list within the ILM 
(Inventory of Language Materials) section of the Gopher.

Does anybody want to suggest any materials I might have missed?  Do you 
yourself have any font materials of your own that are available to the 
public?  If you haven't yet received an email copy of the draft list, 
then your own materials are probably not on the list.  Why not send me 
full info?  That way I can include your materials in the final draft that 
will be sent around once to everybody before being incorporated into 
ILM.  After that, of course, updates will still be welcome.

Thanks in advance for all suggestions,
Fran Pritchett
 





From hindimcs at u.washington.edu  Tue Nov  8 21:58:26 1994
From: hindimcs at u.washington.edu (Michael Shapiro)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 94 13:58:26 -0800
Subject: A list of fonts for South Asian languages
Message-ID: <161227017751.23782.2274589702962143010.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Keep up the good work.  You're providing an important service.
--Mike

On Tue, 8 Nov 1994, Frances Pritchett wrote:

> Dear friends and colleagues,
> 
> There are so many queries about fonts that it will obviously be a 
> convenience to have a list of them in a single place.  We at Columbia are 
> ready to offer our South Asia Gopher to be such a place.  Since so 
> far nobody truly competent has volunteered to maintain such a list, I'm 
> willing to give it a go despite my amateurishness.  I've pulled 
> together a draft list consisting of all the material I've seen on this 
> network and elsewhere.  I've sent around copies already to everybody 
> whose material appears on the list.  Soon I'll be sending around a final 
> draft to the Indology network, before placing the list within the ILM 
> (Inventory of Language Materials) section of the Gopher.
> 
> Does anybody want to suggest any materials I might have missed?  Do you 
> yourself have any font materials of your own that are available to the 
> public?  If you haven't yet received an email copy of the draft list, 
> then your own materials are probably not on the list.  Why not send me 
> full info?  That way I can include your materials in the final draft that 
> will be sent around once to everybody before being incorporated into 
> ILM.  After that, of course, updates will still be welcome.
> 
> Thanks in advance for all suggestions,
> Fran Pritchett
>  
> 
 





From R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk  Tue Nov  8 14:42:02 1994
From: R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk (R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 94 14:42:02 +0000
Subject: VHP and United Way (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017742.23782.10220567683895847420.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Yes indeed, I am advocating finding the balance between
intellectual honesty and self-awareness, and tedious
innappropriate soap-box ranting, which I never read any way
, surely have no place on lists such as these. But one
can err in either direction. For the time being, I use
the delete command when confronted with these soap-box
rantings, but one has to seek a balance, not an elimination
of *all* political materials. 
Is it possible to achieve that? I reckon Richard Hayes is 
along the right lines in advocating moderation.
Rob
 





From R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk  Tue Nov  8 14:51:16 1994
From: R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk (R.Mayer at ukc.ac.uk)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 94 14:51:16 +0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <161227017744.23782.14333071172550554411.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Jonathan Silk has complained that he got no responses to his technical
questions. Apart from a handful of bodhisattva scholars like Lance
Cousins, who make efforts to reply when they can, most learned
list members eem to lurk and smirk at the anguished confusions of
the likes of Jonathan and, indeed, myself (still no reply on my
nidhi query; what did nidhi mean in the Kausiaksutra and the
Grhyasutras? (pardon slip of keyboard: can not rectify mistakes
on this system!).
I agree, the best way to end soap-box ranting is to introduce
more academic discussion. Can anyone answer Jonathan Silk's
questions? 
Rob
 





From lnelson at teetot.acusd.edu  Wed Nov  9 00:12:28 1994
From: lnelson at teetot.acusd.edu (Lance Nelson)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 94 16:12:28 -0800
Subject: Political dimension of Indology
Message-ID: <161227017754.23782.2383965120936750837.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


On Tue, 8 Nov 1994 aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca wrote:
 
> I . . . am still interested in knowing what impact, if any,
> information and views to the contrary have had on Mr. Nelson's view. Since
> he caused the discussion, I think there is some professional ethical
> obligation that he should let us know if what the other side has asserted
> is correct, incorrect,or  partly correct (if partly correct, to what
> extent). 
 
On Oct. 30, I forwarded--with no comment other than "FYI"--a letter
concerning the recognition of the VHP by United Way, a major US charity
organization.  As a scholar of South Asia, I found it interesting that an
important Hindu organization in the US had been so recognized, and I
thought others might also.  I myself have no expertise on the subject, nor
did I express any views regarding it.  So I'm not sure what the "other 
side" might be so as to comment on it. 

Of course the letter itself expressed some allegations about the VHP, and 
I am therefore responsible--though I did not write the letter--for 
circulating charges I cannot either support or refute through first hand 
knowledge.  I accept this responsibility and apologize.

I also apologize if this list is not the appropriate place to post items 
of contemporary concern.   A suggestion: It might be a good idea for the 
list owner to post, from time to time, a statement of purpose, so that 
those, like myself, who have only recently subscribed, might not offend 
anyone by introducing topics not within the list's purview.  I don't 
recall receiving such a statement when I subscribed.   If it was, I again 
apologize.

Lance Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lance Nelson                                              Phone: 619/260-4054
Theological & Religious Studies                             FAX: 619/260-2260
University of San Diego                         E-mail: lnelson at pwa.acusd.edu
San Diego, CA 92110-2492                                               U.S.A.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------





 





From drdj at mail.utexas.edu  Wed Nov  9 02:42:58 1994
From: drdj at mail.utexas.edu (drdj at mail.utexas.edu)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 94 20:42:58 -0600
Subject: Journal Search
Message-ID: <161227017756.23782.9826504952883924113.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Apologies for cross-posting.

I am looking for the journal <Studies in History>, the "Biannual Journal of
the Centre for Historical Studies, Jawaharlal Nehru University", Vol.4 No.
2. Sahibabad, 1982.

It contains several reviews of Burton Stein's segmentary state theory by
scholars such as Subbarayalu, Krader, and Kulke.  My University ILL has
been stumped trying to locate it.  If it is in your university's library,
could you please let me know, or if you have a personal copy, I would be
happy to pay for the cost of making photocopies of the desired articles.
Thanks for any help.

Regards,


Donald R. Davis, Jr.
drdj at mail.utexas.edu
Center for Asian Studies
University of Texas at Austin


 





From mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk  Tue Nov  8 22:06:41 1994
From: mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 94 22:06:41 +0000
Subject: More questions about technical subjects
Message-ID: <161227017752.23782.1321661149326739378.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Some comments on one:

>6)      _Mahaavastu_ (Senart) I.244.1-2:  ta.m putrasnehena nivaareti maa
>tatra paaradaariko ti k.rtvaa bhaatayi.syati //.  I cannot understand what
>is going on exactly.  The previous sentence says:  "[Meghadatta] fell in
>love with another man's wife, whom he visited early and late."  Then our
>sentences:  "[Her] mother kept him away out of affection for her child."
>So far this is OK.  But the next part seems to mean:  "Thinking 'I hope
>there is no adulterer here,' [or else?] I will kill him."  There are no
>significant variants.  Any suggestions?

It cannot be her mother that is meant here, as the whole point of the story
is that Meghadatta commits all five karmas which entail certain retribution
at death i.e. he must be a matricide. The construction must be maa with the
future - see BHSG p. 200 f. So perhaps:

 "[His mother] kept him away out of affection for her son, fearing lest,
behaving there as an adulterer, he should alarm [them]"

for bhaayayi.syati ? I have thought of various other possibilities for the
verb, but none seem very convincing. Surely someone will have something
better than this!

Lance Cousins




MANCHESTER, UK
Telephone (UK): 061 434 3646  (International) +44 61 434 3646
Fax (UK):       061 275 3613  (International) +44 61 275 3613


 





From CXEV at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA  Wed Nov  9 12:02:59 1994
From: CXEV at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (Richard P Hayes)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 07:02:59 -0500
Subject: The impact of our studies
Message-ID: <161227017757.23782.9477771672656706693.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

J.B. Sharma says:
> Unlike the contention of Richard Hayes, it does matter what leading
>scholars of South Asia may have to say about South Asia.

This I would not deny, and I realize there are people on this list
who do study South Asia and say things about it. My comments were
not intended to refer to them. Rather, I was thinking more of people
like myself whose principal concerns are with philosophy and the
Sanskrit language, not with South Asia or the people who live there.
The subject that I study is ideas, and it has been my experience that
ideas are not offended when people study them. It has also been my
experience that philosophy has remarkably little impact on human beings,
so studying philosophy is something one can do without having much of
an affect on anyone, with the possible exception of a small handful of
others who derive some pleasure from thinking. Similarly, it seems
to me that one can be interested in Sanskrit as a language without
having the least interest or concern in the people who wrote it or
read it, in about the same way that one can be interested in mathematics
without being concerned with the mathematicians themselves. There is
nothing necessarily lifeless or dry about this approach, and it is not
naive, I would contend, to think that there is nothing even remotely
political about the study of Sanskrit qua language.

In reply to Ashoka Aklujkar's concerns about a moderated list, the
purpose of moderation is not to censor anyone, but simply to keep
discussions on topic. This task does, it must be admitted, require
an exercise of judgement, but knowing "where to draw the line" is
something we do all the time as seminar leaders, chairs of panels
at conferences, editors and so on. Drawing lines is what most of us
do for a living, so we should not be too afraid of it.

Richard P. Hayes                              cxev at musica.mcgill.ca
Associate Professor                                Associate Member
Faculty of Religious Studies                     Dept of Philosophy
             McGill University  Montreal, Quebec
 





From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Wed Nov  9 16:53:12 1994
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 08:53:12 -0800
Subject: Political dimension
Message-ID: <161227017762.23782.7347128138168252328.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks to Lance Nelson for his recent forthright posting.

In my earlier communication under the same heading I should have mentioned
the name of Peter Claus in the first paragraph. I value his thoughtful
communications.   

Richard Hayes' recent observation about 'drawing the line' has its
validity. However, in all the situations he has mentioned, we draw a line
with other participants of similar standing involved; in other words, the
process is essentially open and  public although the number of participants
is limited by qualification.  I would have no objection to that sort of
monitoring but do we have the resources (especially when  we do not have
time even to respond to Jonathan Silk's excellent questions)?

Ashok Aklujkar

 





From RQ021RE%TCUAMUS.BITNET at pucc.Princeton.EDU  Wed Nov  9 15:30:51 1994
From: RQ021RE%TCUAMUS.BITNET at pucc.Princeton.EDU (Andrew Fort)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 09:30:51 -0600
Subject: nature of list
Message-ID: <161227017760.23782.16187358088448754122.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

   I am glad Lance Nelson posted the letter, and I have
been mildly interested in the responses, pro and con.
For those considering staying or going, I suggest you
stay, but set the list to DIGESTS, so you can receive
messages once a day.  I find this allows me very quickly
to scroll through what I don't want to read, and not to
be bothered by new messages through the day.  In fact,
I unsubscribed from BUDDHIST because the list couldn't
be put in digest form.
   I don't say much on the list for two reasons: 1) I
don't like to contribute unless I feel I have some
expertise to add, and 2) time--to respond well to
an issue I _do_ know something about takes a real
time commitment.
   Finally, I think virtually every aspect of scholarship
has a political dimension (see the pinyin--Wade-Giles
debate on BUDDHA-L), so is fair game here.  However,
as a scholarly list, we need to bring careful, rigorous
thinking to the political issues.  Could anyone recommend
some thoughtful scholarship about the VHP/BJP and affiliated
organizations?  How do they interpret Indian history and/or
the nature of "Hinduism?"  Isvar Harris gave an interesting
talk on some of these issues at the August Congress on
Vedanta in Ohio, but that only made me realize how little
good material I am familiar with.
     Looking forward to increasing my bibliography, Andy Fort

Andrew O. Fort, Religion Dept.       RQ021RE at TCUAMUS
Texas Christian University           Fort Worth TX 76129
 





From jh at cubsps.bio.columbia.edu  Wed Nov  9 15:19:25 1994
From: jh at cubsps.bio.columbia.edu (Jim Hartzell)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 10:19:25 -0500
Subject: Jan Nattier
Message-ID: <161227017759.23782.5116494501935322839.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anyone have a recent address/phone/fax/email for
Jan Nattier (Natier?)
thanks to all those who responded to prior requests for info
on Sanskrit speaking locales and on Harappan script.
Jim Hartzell
 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Nov  9 17:23:03 1994
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 12:23:03 -0500
Subject: Will be out of Ann Arbor
Message-ID: <161227017764.23782.2630992050472776794.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,
	Just to let you know that I will be away from Ann Arbor from Nov 
9 to Nov 20, and will not be able to respond to personal messages until 
my return.  Thanks.
        Madhav Deshpande
 





From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu  Wed Nov  9 19:41:21 1994
From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (rrocher at sas.upenn.edu)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 14:41:21 -0500
Subject: Will be out of Ann Arbor
Message-ID: <161227017766.23782.14552719668188582225.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Madhav Deshpande wrote:
> 
> Dear Indologists,
> 	Just to let you know that I will be away from Ann Arbor from Nov 
> 9 to Nov 20, and will not be able to respond to personal messages until 
> my return.  Thanks.
>         Madhav Deshpande
>  
> 
 I hope that no emergency is involved. 

 Love, Rosane.
 





From SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU  Wed Nov  9 22:59:20 1994
From: SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU (SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 16:59:20 -0600
Subject: Jan Nattier
Message-ID: <161227017772.23782.14499616635569894315.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Jan Nattier may be reached at:
JNATTIER at UCS.INDIANA.EDU

Her office phone is 812-855-2492
        office fax:  812-855-4687

Her address:

Department of Religious Studies
Sycamore Hall 230
Indiana University
Bloomington IN 47405

Jonathan Silk
SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU


 





From czm1 at cornell.edu  Wed Nov  9 22:50:24 1994
From: czm1 at cornell.edu (czm1 at cornell.edu)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 17:50:24 -0500
Subject: Jan Nattier
Message-ID: <161227017767.23782.17141784620967177088.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Does anyone have a recent address/phone/fax/email for
>Jan Nattier (Natier?)
>thanks to all those who responded to prior requests for info
>on Sanskrit speaking locales and on Harappan script.
>Jim Hartzell
> 
  jnattier at bronze.ucs.indiana.edu


 





From SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU  Thu Nov 10 00:04:36 1994
From: SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU (SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 18:04:36 -0600
Subject: a mistype leads astray?
Message-ID: <161227017769.23782.8031543831000595678.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

        It is with considerable chagrin that I realized, reading Lance
Cousins's kind suggestions, that I have misled through a slip of the
finger.  The finite verb in the sentence in question is not, as I mistyped
(1 register too highon the keyboard) bhaatayi.syati, but ghaatayi.syati.

        I think Lance is right in his suggestion that we understand  "[His
mother] kept him away out of affection for her son... "  But what of the
rest?

        I too think that the discussion of Edgerton BHSG on maa is relevant
here, which is why I understood with "I hope..."  What I (still) do not
understand is how we can read as one sentence the expression maa tatra
paaradaariko ti k.rtvaa ghaatayi.syati, especially if it is to be conjoined
with the preceding.  According to my understanding of Skt. grammar, the
agent of the gerund must be the same as that of the finite verb (with very
few exceptions).  Is there an abrupt swich in subject between one sentence
and the next?  Namely:  His mother kept him away ....  [The husband of the
love object] will kill him, thinking "There must not be an adulterer here!"
(tatra for atra?)

        Any more suggestions, Lance?

Jonathan Silk
SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU


 





From SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU  Thu Nov 10 00:11:46 1994
From: SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU (SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 18:11:46 -0600
Subject: nature of list
Message-ID: <161227017771.23782.14663872410426901392.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In response to Andrew Fort's query:

        I disclaim knowledge of whether it is reliable or not, and I only
skimmed it quickly at breakfast, but the issue of the AAR (American Academy
of Religion) Journal which arrived yesterday has an article (forgive me but
I do not recall the authors name, or the exact title) on the roots of the
VHP ideology, with some very interesting stuff of aggressive and militant
ascetics.  My copy is at home, so I cannot be more specific.  Perhaps
someone has the journal at hand?

Jonathan Silk
SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU


 





From magier at columbia.edu  Thu Nov 10 10:48:57 1994
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 05:48:57 -0500
Subject: [T. Matthew Ciolek <tmciolek@coombs.anu.edu.au>: Current WWW         resources on South Asia - Nov 94]
Message-ID: <161227017776.23782.10923240132988919191.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

FYI. I will put links pointing  to these and other South Asia World
Wide Web resources onto The South Asia Gopher in the near future.
David Magier
                ---------------

>From south-asia-studies-l at coombs.anu.edu.au Mon Feb 13 23:04:17 1995
X-Sender: tmc407 at coombs.anu.edu.au
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:39:13 +0100
To: south-asia-studies-l at coombs.anu.edu.au
From: T. Matthew Ciolek <tmciolek at coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Current WWW resources on South Asia - Nov 94
Sender: owner-south-asia-studies-l at coombs.anu.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: south-asia-studies-l at coombs.anu.edu.au
Status: RO

Dear Colleagues,

Here are some URLs which might be of interest.

I have copied them  from our WWW Virtual Library - Asian Studies  (http://coombs.anu.edu.au/WWWVL-AsianStudies.html) 

Please, do let me know if there is any WWW facility  which I have overlooked.

BANGLADESH
<A HREF="http://www.intnet.net/pub/COUNTRIES/Bangladesh">Bangladesh files FTP archive </A> (www.intnet.net,USA)
<A HREF="http://axe.asel.udel.edu/~kazi/bd.html">
Bangladesh Info Page </A> (U Delaware,USA)


INDIA
<A HREF="http://www.cs.clemson.edu/~nandu/india.html">India Information Page </A> [mainly tourism] (Clemson U,USA)
<A HREF="http://www.intnet.net/pub/COUNTRIES/India">India files FTP archive </A> (www.intnet.net,USA)
<A HREF="http://akebono.stanford.edu/yahoo/Regional_Information/Countries/India/">
India - Usenet & other sources </A> (Stanford U,USA)
<A HREF="http://emailhost.ait.ac.th/Asia/in.html">Indian WWW Infoservers and Libraries Register </A>(AIT,Thailand)
<A HREF="gopher://cheops.anu.edu.au/11/ResearchFacilities/ASIAN/India">India Research Inf.Resources </A>[gopher] (ANU,Australia)
<A HREF="http://nearnet.gnn.com/wic/music.04.html">Indian Classical Music NetSources Register </A> (GNN,USA)
<A HREF="http://www.stph.net/">Software Technology Park (Hyderabad) - Home Page </A> (STPH,India)
<A HREF="http://hypatia.ucsc.edu:70/1/RELATED/Batish">The Batish Institute of Indian Music and Fine Arts </A> (USA)


NEPAL
<A HREF="http://coos.dartmouth.edu/~rajendra/Nepal.html">Nepal Home Page </A> (Dartmouth College,USA)
<A HREF="http://www.intnet.net/pub/COUNTRIES/Nepal">Nepal files FTP archive </A> (www.intnet.net,USA)
<A HREF="http://akebono.stanford.edu/yahoo/Regional_Information/Countries/Nepal/">
Nepal - Usenet & other sources </A> (Stanford U,USA)


PAKISTAN
<A HREF="http://cuda3.me.mtu.edu:8023/home/maxwell-a.ee/kmushtaq/.mosaic/pakistan/pakistan.html">Pakistan Homepage </A>(Michigan Technological U,USA)
<A HREF="http://www.rpi.edu/~ansars/paksa_locker/pak_mosaic/pakistan.html">Pakistan Information Page </A> (Rensselaer Polytech.Inst.,USA)
<A HREF="http://www.rpi.edu/~ansars/paksa_locker/pak_mosaic/paksa_www.html">Pakistan Student Association </A> (Rensselaer Polytech.Inst.,USA)
<A HREF="http://www.intnet.net/pub/COUNTRIES/Pakistan">Pakistan files FTP archive </A> (www.intnet.net,USA)
<A HREF="http://akebono.stanford.edu/yahoo/Regional_Information/Countries/Pakistan/">
Pakistan - Usenet & other sources </A> (Stanford U,USA)


SRI LANKA
<A HREF="http://www.cm.cf.ac.uk/Slanka/sl_home.html">Sri Lankan Home Page </A> (Cardiff U,UK)
<A HREF="http://suif.stanford.edu/~saman/lanka/sri_lanka.html">Sri Lankan Home Page </A>(Stanford U,USA)
<A HREF="http://nearnet.gnn.com/wic/soc.60.html">Sri Lanka NetSources Register </A>(GNN,USA)
<A HREF="http://akebono.stanford.edu/yahoo/Regional_Information/Countries/Sri_Lanka/">
Sri Lanka - Usenet & other sources </A> (Stanford U,USA)


- with many regards -

-==================================================-
Dr T. Matthew CIOLEK           tmciolek at coombs.anu.edu.au
ANU Social Sciences Information Systems Administrator,
Coombs Computing Unit, Research School of Social Sciences,
        http://coombs.anu.edu.au/CoombsHome.html
Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 0200, Australia
ph +61 (0)6 249 0110             fax: +61 (0)6 257 1893
-=================================================-



 

Original-Received:  from ccMail by ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOVid 
                   AA784493742 Thu, 10 Nov 94 10:55:42 EST
PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 10:55:42 EST
From: VINOD_PATEL at ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOV
Message-Id: <9410107844.AA784493742 at ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOV>
To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: subscription


     
     subscribe
     
     vinod_patel at ccmail.gsfc.nasa.gov
 





From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no  Thu Nov 10 01:05:39 1994
From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 11:05:39 +1000
Subject: nature of list
Message-ID: <161227017774.23782.11101158622805317482.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>In response to Andrew Fort's query:
>
>        I disclaim knowledge of whether it is reliable or not, and I only
>skimmed it quickly at breakfast, but the issue of the AAR (American Academy
>of Religion) Journal which arrived yesterday has an article (forgive me but
>I do not recall the authors name, or the exact title) on the roots of the
>VHP ideology, with some very interesting stuff of aggressive and militant
>ascetics.  My copy is at home, so I cannot be more specific.  Perhaps
>someone has the journal at hand?
>
>Jonathan Silk
>SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU
>
>

As far as I am concerned, any bibliographic information about this subject
would be most welcome. Please keep me informed.

Best regards,

Lars Martin Fosse


Lars Martin Fosse
Department of East European
and Oriental Studies
P. O. Box 1030, Blindern
N-0315 OSLO Norway

Tel: +47 22 85 68 48
Fax: +47 22 85 41 40

E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no

 





From magier at columbia.edu  Thu Nov 10 22:04:40 1994
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 17:04:40 -0500
Subject: [T. Matthew Ciolek <tmciolek@coombs.anu.edu.au>: Current WWW
Message-ID: <161227017782.23782.4060522997818893476.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> On Thu, 10 Nov 1994 11:14:56 GMT  David Magier wrote:
> >FYI. I will put links pointing  to these and other South Asia World
> >Wide Web resources onto The South Asia Gopher in the near future.
> >
> >David Magier
> 
> Do you mind if I add them to the gopher server here?
> 
> Thanks
> Alan Thew

Not at all. In fact, this kind of mirroring and cross-referencing of
internet resources benefits the whole community of scholars, since it
makes the info even more accessible and spreads the burden of
providing access (which also helps ensure better responsiveness from
the server machines themselves).

David Magier
 





From d.keown at goldsmiths.ac.uk  Thu Nov 10 17:19:21 1994
From: d.keown at goldsmiths.ac.uk (d.keown at goldsmiths.ac.uk)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 17:19:21 +0000
Subject: Journal of Buddhist Ethics Publication News
Message-ID: <161227017778.23782.6961506905197203225.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Journal of Buddhist Ethics Publication News

(Apologies for any cross-postings)
 
The Journal of Buddhist Ethics is pleased to announce the publication of the
following two items:
 
- - - - - - - - - -
Item 1)
 
Research Paper:
 
A BUDDHIST ETHIC WITHOUT KARMIC REBIRTH?
 
Author: Winston L. King
Publication Date: November 10th, 1994
 
ABSTRACT
 
      Is a viable and authentic Buddhist ethic possible without the
prospect of rebirth governed by one's karmic past? This paper explores
traditional and contemporary views on karma with a view to determining
the importance of this doctrine for practical ethics in the West. The
Theravaada emphasis on the personal nature of karma is discussed
first, followed by a consideration of the evolution of a social
dimension to the doctrine in the Mahaayaana. The latter development is
attributed to the twin influences of the //Bodhisattva// ideal and the
metaphysics of Naagaarjuna and Hua Yen. Following this survey of
traditional perspectives, attention is turned for the greater part of
the paper to a consideration of the relevance of the notion of karmic
rebirth for Buddhist ethics in the West. The notion of "social
//kamma//"  advanced by Ken Jones in _The Social Face of Buddhism_ is
given critical consideration. The conclusion is that a doctrine of
karmic rebirth is not essential to a viable and authentic Buddhist
ethic in the West.
 
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
 
Winston L. King is Emeritus Professor, Vanderbilt University
 
- - - - - - - - - -
Item 2)
 
Bulletin:
 
SCHOLARLY BOOKS ON BUDDHIST ETHICS AND ETHICS-RELATED TOPICS
PUBLISHED IN THE 1990s
 
This bulletin contains synopses of fourteen books published on Buddhist Ethics
and Ethics-related topics in the 1990s.
 
- - - - - - - - - -
 
RETRIEVAL INSTRUCTIONS
 
Material published by the Journal of Buddhist Ethics may be read and retrieved
via the World Wide Web, Gopher, or anonymous FTP.
 
1) WORLD WIDE WEB ACCESS
A hypertext version is available via the following URL's:
 
http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/jbe.html
http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe
 
2) GOPHER ACCESS
An ASCII text version is available from
 
Penn State University's Gopher:
Type:           1
Host:           ftp.cac.psu.edu
Port:           70
Selector:       1/jbe
 
or Goldsmiths' Gopher:
Type:           1
Host:           scorpio.gold.ac.uk
Port:           70
Selector:       1/jbe
 
or Coombsquest  Gopher:
 
Type:           1
Host:           cis.anu.edu.au
Port:           70
Selector:      ftp:coombs.anu.edu.au@/coombspapers/otherarchives/
electronic-buddhist-archives/buddhism-general/e-journals/jbe/
 
(please note  misleading wrap-around in the path listed above)
 
3) ANONYMOUS FTP ACCESS:
An ASCII text version is available from
 
*USA  site:
ftp.cac.psu.edu in
        the directory /pub/jbe or
 
*UK  site:
ftp.gold.ac.uk
        in the directory /pub/jbe
 
*AUSTRALIA site:
coombs.anu.edu.au
        in the directory
/coombspapers/otherarchives/electronic-buddhist-archives/buddhism-general/
e-journals/jbe
 
(please note misleading wrap-around in the path listed above)
 
 
If you have difficulty in obtaining any item please contact the Journal's
Technical Editor Dr. Wayne R.Husted (jbe-ed at psu.edu).

*************************************************
Damien Keown <d.keown at gold.ac.uk>
Department of Historical & Cultural Studies
University of London, Goldsmiths
London UK, SE14 6NW                                                    
*************************************************

 





From Alan.Thew at liverpool.ac.uk  Thu Nov 10 19:37:21 1994
From: Alan.Thew at liverpool.ac.uk (Alan Thew)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 19:37:21 +0000
Subject: [T. Matthew Ciolek <tmciolek@coombs.anu.edu.au>: Current WWW
Message-ID: <161227017780.23782.13947994615781109411.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Thu, 10 Nov 1994 11:14:56 GMT  David Magier wrote:
>FYI. I will put links pointing  to these and other South Asia World
>Wide Web resources onto The South Asia Gopher in the near future.
>David Magier

Do you mind if I add them to the gopher server here?

Thanks

--
Alan Thew
[Note new numbers]
alan.thew at liv.ac.uk   ...!uknet!liv!alan.thew   Tel: +44 151 794-4497
University of Liverpool, Computing Services     Fax: +44 151 794-4442

>                ---------------
>
>Received: from coombs.anu.edu.au by mailhub.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA083
>78
>  (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for <magier at columbia.edu>); Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:40:45
> -0500
>Message-Id: <199411100340.AA08378 at mailhub.cc.columbia.edu>
>Received: by coombs.anu.edu.au
>	(1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA01169; Thu, 10 Nov 1994 14:31:11 +1100
>Received: from [150.203.147.25] by coombs.anu.edu.au with SMTP
>	(1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA01160; Thu, 10 Nov 1994 14:31:06 +1100
>X-Sender: tmc407 at coombs.anu.edu.au
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:39:13 +0100
>To: south-asia-studies-l at coombs.anu.edu.au
>From: T. Matthew Ciolek <tmciolek at coombs.anu.edu.au>
>Subject: Current WWW resources on South Asia - Nov 94
>Sender: owner-south-asia-studies-l at coombs.anu.edu.au
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: south-asia-studies-l at coombs.anu.edu.au
>
>Dear Colleagues,
>
>Here are some URLs which might be of interest.
>
>I have copied them  from our WWW Virtual Library - Asian Studies  (http://coom
>bs.anu.edu.au/WWWVL-AsianStudies.html) 
>
>Please, do let me know if there is any WWW facility  which I have overlooked.
>
>BANGLADESH
><A HREF="http://www.intnet.net/pub/COUNTRIES/Bangladesh">Bangladesh files FTP 
>archive </A> (www.intnet.net,USA)
><A HREF="http://axe.asel.udel.edu/~kazi/bd.html">
>Bangladesh Info Page </A> (U Delaware,USA)
>
>
>INDIA
><A HREF="http://www.cs.clemson.edu/~nandu/india.html">India Information Page <
>/A> [mainly tourism] (Clemson U,USA)
><A HREF="http://www.intnet.net/pub/COUNTRIES/India">India files FTP archive </
>A> (www.intnet.net,USA)
><A HREF="http://akebono.stanford.edu/yahoo/Regional_Information/Countries/Indi
>a/">
>India - Usenet & other sources </A> (Stanford U,USA)
><A HREF="http://emailhost.ait.ac.th/Asia/in.html">Indian WWW Infoservers and L
>ibraries Register </A>(AIT,Thailand)
><A HREF="gopher://cheops.anu.edu.au/11/ResearchFacilities/ASIAN/India">India R
>esearch Inf.Resources </A>[gopher] (ANU,Australia)
><A HREF="http://nearnet.gnn.com/wic/music.04.html">Indian Classical Music NetS
>ources Register </A> (GNN,USA)
><A HREF="http://www.stph.net/">Software Technology Park (Hyderabad) - Home Pag
>e </A> (STPH,India)
><A HREF="http://hypatia.ucsc.edu:70/1/RELATED/Batish">The Batish Institute of 
>Indian Music and Fine Arts </A> (USA)
>
>
>NEPAL
><A HREF="http://coos.dartmouth.edu/~rajendra/Nepal.html">Nepal Home Page </A> 
>(Dartmouth College,USA)
><A HREF="http://www.intnet.net/pub/COUNTRIES/Nepal">Nepal files FTP archive </
>A> (www.intnet.net,USA)
><A HREF="http://akebono.stanford.edu/yahoo/Regional_Information/Countries/Nepa
>l/">
>Nepal - Usenet & other sources </A> (Stanford U,USA)
>
>
>PAKISTAN
><A HREF="http://cuda3.me.mtu.edu:8023/home/maxwell-a.ee/kmushtaq/.mosaic/pakis
>tan/pakistan.html">Pakistan Homepage </A>(Michigan Technological U,USA)
><A HREF="http://www.rpi.edu/~ansars/paksa_locker/pak_mosaic/pakistan.html">Pak
>istan Information Page </A> (Rensselaer Polytech.Inst.,USA)
><A HREF="http://www.rpi.edu/~ansars/paksa_locker/pak_mosaic/paksa_www.html">Pa
>kistan Student Association </A> (Rensselaer Polytech.Inst.,USA)
><A HREF="http://www.intnet.net/pub/COUNTRIES/Pakistan">Pakistan files FTP arch
>ive </A> (www.intnet.net,USA)
><A HREF="http://akebono.stanford.edu/yahoo/Regional_Information/Countries/Paki
>stan/">
>Pakistan - Usenet & other sources </A> (Stanford U,USA)
>
>
>SRI LANKA
><A HREF="http://www.cm.cf.ac.uk/Slanka/sl_home.html">Sri Lankan Home Page </A>
> (Cardiff U,UK)
><A HREF="http://suif.stanford.edu/~saman/lanka/sri_lanka.html">Sri Lankan Home
> Page </A>(Stanford U,USA)
><A HREF="http://nearnet.gnn.com/wic/soc.60.html">Sri Lanka NetSources Register
> </A>(GNN,USA)
><A HREF="http://akebono.stanford.edu/yahoo/Regional_Information/Countries/Sri_
>Lanka/">
>Sri Lanka - Usenet & other sources </A> (Stanford U,USA)
>
>
>- with many regards -
>
>-==================================================-
>Dr T. Matthew CIOLEK           tmciolek at coombs.anu.edu.au
>ANU Social Sciences Information Systems Administrator,
>Coombs Computing Unit, Research School of Social Sciences,
>        http://coombs.anu.edu.au/CoombsHome.html
>Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 0200, Australia
>ph +61 (0)6 249 0110             fax: +61 (0)6 257 1893
>-=================================================-
>
>
>
> 
 





From RQ021RE%TCUAMUS.BITNET at pucc.Princeton.EDU  Fri Nov 11 15:15:40 1994
From: RQ021RE%TCUAMUS.BITNET at pucc.Princeton.EDU (Andrew Fort)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 09:15:40 -0600
Subject: article on roots of VHP
Message-ID: <161227017784.23782.7247765447052515349.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

As others have noted, the day after my request for
good material on "Hindu fundamentalism," the JAAR
appeared with an article by James Lochtefeld, called
"The Visva Hindu Parishad and the Roots of Hindu
Militancy."  Perhaps most interesting is his discussion
of the history of samnyasi violence in north India.

Andrew O. Fort, Religion Dept.       RQ021RE at TCUAMUS
Texas Christian University           Fort Worth TX 76129
 





From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 11 16:35:08 1994
From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 10:35:08 -0600
Subject: A medieval Tamil poem
Message-ID: <161227017785.23782.6848202007139476201.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



              A medieval Tamil poem
             ------------------------
The following poem is by Nambiyaandaar Nambi(Eleventh tirumurai,
aaLuTaiya piLLaiyar mummaNik kOvai). 11th century A.D.

This "kOvai" poem is of the "Akam" type (Poem of Love/ Interior Landscape).
I attempt a translation.

N. Ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov

It talks of a beautiful young girl guarding millet fields in a
mountain and het utter helplessness. Remember Lord Murugan
meets Valli, a daughter of the hunter tribe, when she was
in the farm.

Because of her likeness to peacocks, 
    they all come out from the nearby forest and stay with her.
Because her sweet speech resembles that of parrots, 
    they also come and be in the company of her.
Because her eyes parallel those of does,
    they leave the neighboring forests to join her.

The parrots, peacocks and deer are going to eat away all the grains
and the leaves. Her presence only attracted them here in the first place.
How is she going to protect the cultivated crops??!!


\bt
punamaa  mayilchaayal  kaNtumun
           pOkaa;  kiLipiriyaa;
inamaan  viziokkum  enRuvittu
           Ekaa;  irun^iladhdhuk
kanamaa  madhiRkaazi  nyaanacham
           pan^dhan  katamalaivaaydh
dhinaimaadhu  ivaLkaakka  engkE
           viLaiyum  chezungkadhirE!!
\et




    
    
    
    
    

                                          .--.     o                       
.   .  ______ .   __  .____   .   __  .   | .|  _    .  .___ .____ .     . 
|   | / /\ |  |  |  | |  |    |  |  | |  |  || ( \   |  |_|_ |  |  |  |  | 
|___| O \/ |  |__|__| |  |    |__|__| v_/|__)   O \_/  (__)  |  |  v_/|__) 
    |                                                                      
    o                 o     ___                o   
 _    .    .___   ________ / _   . .   __   ______ 
( \   |    |_|_  / /\ /\ | | |_. | |  |  | / /\ |  
 O \_/    (_./_) O \/ \/ | \___| | |__|__| O \/ |  
                                 |____|            

   ___                                  .--.     .--.   .--.   .--. 
  / (_) .   . .____  .___  .____      ._|_ |  _  |__| . | .| ._|__| 
  [  _  |   | |  |   |_|_  |  |       |_|_ | ( \| | | |   || |  | | 
  \_(_) |___| |  |  (_./_) |  |  O   (_./_)   O | |   |___|  |  |   
                                 )                             /    
                
.     . .____   
|  |  | |  |    
v_/|__) |  |  O 
              ) 

  ____                             o         .--.    .--.   ._.      o   
 / o  \   ______ .   __  .____  ______    ___| .| .  |  |  /   \   .___  
_|__\_ | / /\ |  |  |  | |  |  / /\ |    (  /  || |_( )_| ()  ._)  |_|_  
\_\_// | O \/ |  |__|__| |  |  O \/ |     O L__|     \.        \  (_./_) 
                                                     /      \__/         
            o                o                 .--.    o   ___  
. .___  .   __     _____  ______  ._  _. .  ___| .| .     / _   
| |_|_  |  |  |   (   |  / /\ |  (  V  | | (  /  || |     | |_. 
|(_./ ) |__|__|    O  |  O \/ |   _____|_|  O L__|  |____ \___| 
\____/                           (_____|                        

                            ____               .--.            o           
   _____  .___  .____      / o  \  / .____   ._|_ |  _    .  .___   .___ . 
  (   |   |_|_  |  |      _|__\_ | | |  |__  | |_ | ( \   |  |_|_   |_|_ | 
   O  |  (_./_) |  |  O   \_\_// | | |  |  | |  _)   O \_/  (_./ ) (_./_)J 
     /                )            \______/                     /  (___/   
   o   
 .___  
 |_|_  
(_./_) 
       

                                          .--.     o                   .--.   
 .___   ______ .   __  .____   .   __   ._|_ |  ._  _.  .___  .____ .  |  |   
 |_|_  / /\ |  |  |  | |  |    |  |  |  |_|_ | (  V  )  |_|_  |  |  |_( )_|   
(_./_) O \/ |  |__|__| |  |    |__|__| (_./ )   ____/  (_./_) |  |     \.     
                                           /   /                       /      
                                o   
 _____  .____  ______  .___ .   __  
(   |_  |  |  / /\ |   |_|_ |  |  | 
 O  __) |  |  O \/ |  (__)  |__|__| 
                                    

           o             o                                         
  .   . .___   .___   ______    .___  .     .   __   ____   _    . 
  |   | | |_   |_|_  / /\ |     |_|_  |     |  |  | / /\ \ ( \   | 
  |___| |  _) (_./ ) O \/ |    (_./_) |____ |__|__| \)\/ /  O \_/  
                  /                                                
                  o      o   
 ___  . .____ .     .  .___  
(  /  | |  |  |  |  |  |_|_  
 O L__| |  |  v_/|__) (_./ ) 
                          /  

   .--.                                          ____               o   
 ._|_ |  ____   ______ .   __  .____  .___ .    / o  \   ___  .  _  ___ 
 |_|_ | / /\ \ / /\ |  |  |  | |  |   |_|_ |   _|__\_ | (  /  | ( \| |  
(_./ )  \)\/ / O \/ |  |__|__| |  |  (_./_)J   \_\_// |  O L__|  O | |  
    /                                (___/                              
                o                       o    ___         
 .___  .____  .___   .___     _____ .__   . / (_)  .___  
 |_|_  |  |   |_|_   |_|_    (   |  | |_  | [  _   |_|_  
(_./_) |  |  (_./_) (_./_)    O  |  |   )_| \_(_) (_./_) 
                                                         

      .--.                            o      ___                     o          
   ___| .|  ____   _  ___ .     . .   __    /   \  .___ | .  .   .__   .  .___  
  (  /  || / /\ \ ( \| |  |  |  | |  |  |   |_  |  |_|_ | |_( )_ | |_  |  |_|_  
   O L__|  \)\/ /  O | |  v_/|__) |__|__|   (_) | (__)   \   \.  |   )_| (_./_) 
                                |                         \__/                  
   .--.  ___        | | 
 ._|_ | / (_) .____ | | 
 |_|_ | [  _  |  |  | | 
(_./ )  \_(_) |  |  0 0 
    /           /       

  
  
  
  
  




 





From COHEN at vax.rhodes.edu  Fri Nov 11 16:20:10 1994
From: COHEN at vax.rhodes.edu (COHEN at vax.rhodes.edu)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 11:20:10 -0500
Subject: Conference on Religion in South India
Message-ID: <161227017789.23782.443639912419546716.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Paul, I just reviewed your message on the Conference on Religion in South India 
and realized I had not responded. Although I am still uncertain whether I could 
attend this year (hope to be in India), I would very much like to be placed on 
your distribution list. By the way, since you don't know me, I teach Asian 
Religions and Western Civilization at Rhodes College in Memphis Tennessee (my 
degree is in Buddhist studies, specializing in Indian Mahayana from U of 
Michigan). Thanks.

Richard S. Cohen
 





From COHEN at vax.rhodes.edu  Fri Nov 11 16:24:53 1994
From: COHEN at vax.rhodes.edu (COHEN at vax.rhodes.edu)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 11:24:53 -0500
Subject: Conference on Religion in South India
Message-ID: <161227017791.23782.7248187173473440282.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sorry, that last message was supposed to be private to Paul Courtright.


Richard S. Cohen
Rhodes College
 





From SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU  Fri Nov 11 17:42:12 1994
From: SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU (SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 11:42:12 -0600
Subject: article on roots of VHP
Message-ID: <161227017793.23782.16154838855665507756.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Andrew O. Fort provided the title of  the Journal of the American Academy
of Religion  article by James Lochtefeld,  "The Visva Hindu Parishad and
the Roots of Hindu Militancy."  The issue is volume 62 / 2 (Summer 1994):
587-602.   His references list a number of interesting-sounding articles on
warrior ascetics and fighting ascetics.

Jonathan Silk
SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU


 





From JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU  Fri Nov 11 12:13:52 1994
From: JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU (J.B. Sharma)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 12:13:52 +0000
Subject: nature of list
Message-ID: <161227017787.23782.672704537127497811.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Andrew Fort wrote :

  Could anyone recommend some thoughtful scholarship about the VHP/BJP 
and affiliated organizations?  How do they interpret Indian history 
and/or the nature of "Hinduism?"    
-----------

 To get the Hindu perspective of Indian History of the past thousand 
years, and the connection with contemporary India I would highly 
recommend the following;

"Hindu Temples what happened to them" Vol 1 & 2
by Sita Ram Goel et al, Voice of India Publications, New Delhi

"Negationism in India" by Koenraad Elst also by VOI Publ.

 I have been introduced to these works by a posting on this list 
years ago. Besides Shri Goel's speculation on pre-Islamic Arabia, I 
believe that his work is meticulously researched and referenced. I 
have obtained several of the original sources quoted in this book 
(mostly works of Moslem scribes of medevial India) which pretty much 
bear out the summaries of events of not a pleasant nature. I do 
believe Elst's analysis is very cogent as well and that these works 
point to the fundamental reasons for political malaise on the sub-
continent. Elst' work has been inspired by the aforementioned work of 
Shri Goel. 
 In spite of the destruction of thousands of temples in India over 
the centuries, I am not supportive of the intent of restoration 
of some of these destroyed temples; they should be preserved as is, as 
a reminder of socio-cultural weaknesses which led to the debacle, and 
the dire need for reform in Hindu society. There does remain the 
danger of exploitation of the suppressed rage and grief of centuries 
by politicians.
 The militant ascetics mentioned in a couple of recent posts is most 
likely the Shaivite Nagas (correct me if I am wrong). I do recall 
reading that a Naga ascetic dynasty ruled India for some time after 
overthrowing the Buddhist Kushanas in North India (approx 2-400 AD or 
so). Perhaps someone can shed further light on this.

All the best,
J.B. Sharma 


 





From entwistl at u.washington.edu  Sat Nov 12 00:53:21 1994
From: entwistl at u.washington.edu (Alan Entwistle)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 16:53:21 -0800
Subject: nature of list
Message-ID: <161227017796.23782.16781257734279199998.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



On Fri, 11 Nov 1994, J.B. Sharma wrote:

>  The militant ascetics mentioned in a couple of recent posts is most 
> likely the Shaivite Nagas (correct me if I am wrong). I do recall 
> reading that a Naga ascetic dynasty ruled India for some time after 
> overthrowing the Buddhist Kushanas in North India (approx 2-400 AD or 
> so). Perhaps someone can shed further light on this.

Most of us are being made more and more aware of the "Hindu perspective 
on Indian history", thanks to the discussions that are and will be evoked 
by the kind of book you cite.  I hope the list does not get 
clogged up as much as it has in the past by responses to 
messages of this type, which many of us feel would be better 
posted somewhere else. 
	However, you do ask one question of "indological" interest. I've 
no idea what is meant by an "ascetic dynasty", but numismatic evidence 
and Vayupurana (99.383) do suggest Mathura was held by a succession 
of rulers who styled themselves "Naga", with names such as Ganapatinaga
and Sharvanaga, who became feudatories of the Guptas. I'm also not sure 
what is meant by "Buddhist Kushans" - The last Kushana to rule at Mathura 
was named Vasudeva.
 





From bhatcher at titan.iwu.edu  Fri Nov 11 22:57:05 1994
From: bhatcher at titan.iwu.edu (bhatcher at titan.iwu.edu)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 16:57:05 -0600
Subject: VHP and Indology
Message-ID: <161227017794.23782.12253063020880759265.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



	Having followed the discussion on the VHP now for a few days, I
	thought I would simply add that in my own work I have found
	some very interesting ways to explore the crossover between
	Indological pursuits and some kind of engagement with political
	issues in India today.

	If I may I would refer to a recent essay in which I explore the
	use of the 'mantra', vasudhaiva kuu.tumbakam, by groups like
	the VHP.  My analysis of this mantra involves considering its
	context with Sanskrit ethico-didactic literature, its
	interpretation by the eminent Indologist Sylvain Levi, and its
	emergence in recent neo-Hindu literature as a statement of
	humanist ideals.  My attempt is to problematize the easy
	appropriation of this phrase by groups like the VHP, especially
	where their cosmopolitanism runs hand in hand with communalist
	tendencies.  But I am also interested in issues of Orientalist
	and post-Orientalist frames of reference on the comparison of
	notions like humanism and the relationship of individual to
	society.

	The essay is entitled, "'The Cosmos is One Family' (vasudhaiva ku?.tumbakam):  Problematic Mantra of Hindu Humanism."

	It appears in Contributions to Indian Sociology 28/1 (1994) 149-62.

	Since this was originally intended as a 'discussion' piece, I would be happy if it could contribute to the discussion we have beenhaving on the net.

	Brian A. Hatcher
	Department of Religion
	Illinois Wesleyan University
	Bloomington, IL  61702-2900
	309/556-3160
	e-mail:  bhatcher at titan.iwu.edu
 





From JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU  Sun Nov 13 21:12:12 1994
From: JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU (J.B. Sharma)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 94 21:12:12 +0000
Subject: nature of list
Message-ID: <161227017798.23782.1172163441483460739.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


 Alan Entwistle wrote:
 numismatic evidence and Vayupurana (99.383) do suggest Mathura was 
held by a succession of rulers who styled themselves "Naga", with 
names such as Ganapatinagaand Sharvanaga, who became feudatories of 
the Guptas. I'm also not sure what is meant by "Buddhist Kushans" - 
The last Kushana to rule at Mathura was named Vasudeva.
________
 Notwithstanding the chagrin on the books I cited, I do appreciate 
Alan's response to my question. If there are other summative works
of the detailed history of India from 900 to the 1700 AD I would like 
to know of them.
 I have a book by K.P Jayaswal "History of India, 150-350 A.D." 
(1933). He does quote the historyof Kashmir "Rajatrangini" which 
speaks of the Kushan rule. According to it Buddhism had been imposed  
in Kashmir, and the worship of the Nagas had been stopped by the 
Turushkas. Gonorda III restored the Naga worship abolished by Hushka, 
Jushka and Kanishka. The book also qoutes from the Visnu, Vayu,
Bhagvat Puranas, and numismatic evidence abou the Naga dynasty; The 
Bharasiva dynasty began with Nava Naga which the author says heralded 
the post Saka-Kushan Hindu revival ultimately carried on by the 
Guptas. 
All the best,
J.B. Sharma






 





From giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it  Mon Nov 14 09:09:19 1994
From: giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it (carlo della casa)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 09:09:19 +0000
Subject: Politics and the List
Message-ID: <161227017801.23782.2569289011204716050.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 The debate on "Politics and the List" percolates through my e-mail; from a purely aesthetic point of view, the impact is quite peculiar: one is reminded of an old old tall tale my grandfather used to tell on Trappist monks.
	These reverend fathers were allowed to talk only once a year, at Christmas time; moreover, only one monk was allowed to talk every year, so that each monk actually got to speak only about once every 20 years.
	One year one of the Fathers gets up and says: "I hate lentil soup".
	The following year another monk gets up and says "I like lentil soup".
	The third year, another monk gets up and says: "Why do we always have to talk about food?".

	This may or may not be to the point; I personally find the debate interesting, even if isn't close to my personal interests. And though I wouldn't subscribe to many of the views I've read, I feel no compulsion whatsoever to unsubscribe.
	My best to all,

	Alex Passi
	Universita' di Bologna,
	Istituto di Glottologia
	giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it

 





From Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz  Mon Nov 14 12:06:36 1994
From: Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz (Jan.Dvorak at ff.cuni.cz)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 13:06:36 +0100
Subject: List of PhD theses
Message-ID: <161227017803.23782.18233472185243876425.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

     Can anybody help me? Is there any available information on the 
hundreds of indological PhD theses which have not been ever published?
The theses submitted to Indian universities would be particularly 
useful for me.
     I am looking for grammatical analyses of Old Tamil and Middle Tamil 
texts and indexes of texts (such as V.I. Subramoniam's 'Index of 
PuranaanuuRu'). Any information on studies dealing in such way with the 
Tamil Bhakti texts is welcome.

     Thank you in advance.

     Jan Dvorak
     dvorakj.dec59.ruk.cuni.cz

-- 
     |-------------------------------|-----------------------------|
     | Jan Dvorak                    |                             |
     | Institute of Indology         | Home address:               |
     | Charles University            |                             |
     | Celetna 20                    | Vodojemska 553              |
     | 110 00  Praha 1               | 190 14  Praha 9 - Klanovice |
     | Czech Republic                | Czech Republic              |
     |                               |-----------------------------|
     |                                                             |
     |  phone:  ##42 - 2 - 24 21 48 90, l. 403                     |
     | E-mail: dvorakj at dec59.ruk.cuni.cz                           |
     |-------------------------------------------------------------|
 





From magier at columbia.edu  Mon Nov 14 19:25:45 1994
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 14:25:45 -0500
Subject: CONF. ANNOUNCEMENT
Message-ID: <161227017808.23782.17206742074999234761.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Below is a conference announcement, posted to your list by The South
Asia Gopher. Please contact event organizers directly for any further
information.     /David Magier

-----------------------forwarded file-------------------------------

AGRICULTURE OF THE PUNJAB               Saturday, April 1, 1995

A conference to be convened by          ORGANIZED BY:
The Southern Asian Institute,           Prof. Gurinder Singh Mann
Columbia University, NY                 Dept. of Religion, Columbia Univ.
                                        phone: 212-854-5689

Tentative Program:

9:30- 1:00   MORNING SESSION

9:30-10:10   Harbans Singh, Montclair State University, "From the
               Vedic Sapta-Sindhu to the Punjab of Maharaja Ranjit
               Singh: An overview of the agricultural development in
               the region."

10:10-10:50  David Gilmartin, University of North Carolina, Raleigh,
               "The modernization of Punjabi agriculture under the
               British and its socio-political implications for the
               region."

10:50-11:30  Ian Talbot, Coverntry University, UK, "A survey of
               agricultural development in Western Punjab after 1947."

11:40-12:20  Nirvikar Singh, University of California, Santa Cruz,
               "The seams of the bread basket break: facts about the
               Green Revolution in Eastern Punjab."

12:20-1:00   Gurharpal Singh, De Montfort University, UK, "Agricultural
               development in Eastern Punjab and the political storm of
               the past decade."

2:00-5:30    AFTERNOON SESSION

2:00-2:40    Shinder Thandi, Coventry University, UK, "Remittance from
               overseas and the agricultural development in Eastern
               Punjab."

2:40-3:20    [to be announced], "The Punjab Zimidara Union: A non-
               political effort to sustain agricultural development in
               Eastern Punjab."

             [to be announced], "From Layalpur to Ludhiana: the 
               contribution of education to agriculture."

3:20-4:00    [to be announced], "Recent emergence of agro-industry
               and its impact on Punjabi agriculture."

             George Blyn, Rutgers University, "From wheat to rice:
               changing food habits in the Punjab." [tentative title]

4:10-4:50    Holly Sims, State University of New York, Albany, "Until
               it's gone... the vanishing frontiers in the Punjab's
               agricultural development."

4:50-5:30    S. S. Johal, Punjab Agricultural University, Ludhiana,
               "Agriculture in the Punjab: future directions."


FOR FURTHER INFORMATION, PLEASE CONTACT THE CONFERENCE ORGANIZER:
Professor Gurinder Singh Mann
Department of Religion
Columbia University
phone: 212-854-5689

 





From garzilli at husc.harvard.edu  Mon Nov 14 20:00:19 1994
From: garzilli at husc.harvard.edu (Enrica Garzilli)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 15:00:19 -0500
Subject: address
Message-ID: <161227017810.23782.14205173218671854585.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Coul anybody send to me the present address of:
Dr. Francis Zimmermann
Ecole des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Sociales
Paris

I have his address in Paris; I do not have his Canadian address.
Many thanks
 





From ridgeway at blackbox.hacc.washington.edu  Mon Nov 14 22:49:53 1994
From: ridgeway at blackbox.hacc.washington.edu (Thomas B. Ridgeway)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 15:49:53 -0700
Subject: Mahabharata and Ramayana
Message-ID: <161227017811.23782.6329593671999373708.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Good day,
Michio YANO writes to say
> I am pleased to tell you that my friend, Prof. Muneo Tokunaga
> of Kyoto University, has decided to make publicly available 
> the whole e-texts of the Mahaabhaarata and Raamaaya.na.
>       ccftp.kyoto-su.ac.jp

  to which I say Shabash!

For the slight benefit of the universe in the form of bandwidth 
conservation, I have made the files available on the ftp host 
    blackbox.hacc.washington.edu in the directory
    pub/indic/Tokunaga
Blackbox is in the United States, in Washington State; it will be easier
on the network if people on this continent obtain copies locally.  Please
note that blackbox is a Unix machine, and does care a great deal
about that capital T in Tokunaga.

I will add a list of all files after my signature.

In addition to the original files, which are btw in Unix Compress format,
I have added initial restranscriptions of the first sections of each
book in the CSX and Indic-ANSI for windows character sets.  I invite
interested parties to examine these retranscriptions and inform me of
any shortcomings they might observe.  Before retranscribing the
entire mahabharata (so to speak) I would like to think I am doing it
right.  These files are in plain (8-bit) text without compression.


Nota Bene: I will no longer be with the University of Washington after 
November 30.  It is very likely that this text archive will no longer be 
maintained after my departure so anyone with interest in these holdings
would do well to obtain copies before that time.  I would hope to complete
this little project before then.

cheers,
Tom
-- 
pub/indic/Tokunaga
files for Mahabharata
-rw-r--r--  1 root      374419 Nov 14 14:25 m01_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      122153 Nov 14 14:25 m02_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      540163 Nov 14 14:25 m03_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root       96793 Nov 14 14:25 m04_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      318910 Nov 14 14:25 m05_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      269731 Nov 14 14:25 m06_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      405899 Nov 14 14:25 m07_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      209643 Nov 14 14:25 m08_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      171229 Nov 14 14:25 m09_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root       42217 Nov 14 14:25 m10_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root       39302 Nov 14 14:25 m11_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      660513 Nov 14 14:25 m12_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      339581 Nov 14 14:25 m13_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      141755 Nov 14 14:25 m14_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root       55044 Nov 14 14:25 m15_v1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root       32021 Nov 14 14:25 m16-18_v1.e.Z
CSX and ANSI-based indic for Windows versions
-rw-r--r--  1 root      957014 Nov 14 15:29 maha1.ans
-rw-r--r--  1 root      957008 Nov 14 15:28 maha1.csx
files for Ramayana
-rw-r--r--  1 root       97791 Nov 14 14:25 nr1.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      172910 Nov 14 14:25 nr2.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      110267 Nov 14 14:25 nr3.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      104781 Nov 14 14:25 nr4.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      144508 Nov 14 14:25 nr5.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      242451 Nov 14 14:25 nr6.e.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 root      137483 Nov 14 14:26 nr7.e.Z
CSX and ANSI-based indic for Windows versions
-rw-r--r--  1 root      263474 Nov 14 15:29 ramayan1.ans
-rw-r--r--  1 root      263474 Nov 14 15:28 ramayan1.csx
introduction to the collection
-rw-r--r--  1 root        1518 Nov 14 14:26 readme.doc
 





From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu  Tue Nov 15 01:45:38 1994
From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (rrocher at sas.upenn.edu)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 20:45:38 -0500
Subject: Tom Ridgway
Message-ID: <161227017813.23782.3819572461309813518.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

What's that about Tom not being with the U of Washington after the 
end of this month? What's happeining?

Rosane.
 





From magier at columbia.edu  Tue Nov 15 02:09:33 1994
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 21:09:33 -0500
Subject: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA e-texts
Message-ID: <161227017815.23782.6110124660384342583.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Prof. Tokunaga's digitalized versions of the Ramayana & Mahabharata
texts are now conveniently linked for direct access through The South
Asia Gopher, in the ELECTRONIC TEXTS/Archives submenu. Since Tom
Ridgeway has announced that his Indic ftp archive at University of
Washington may not be around much longer, I will explore the
possibility of mirroring all those files here from the Columbia ftp
file server (with links, again, through the SAG). Suggestions and
comments welcome.  Thanks.  David Magier   magier at columbia.edu
 





From yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp  Mon Nov 14 13:27:12 1994
From: yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 22:27:12 +0900
Subject: Mahaabhaarata and Raamaayana available
Message-ID: <161227017806.23782.18135995144397553644.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,

I am pleased to tell you that my friend, Prof. Muneo Tokunaga
of Kyoto University, has decided to make publicly available 
the whole e-texts of the Mahaabhaarata and Raamaaya.na.
The texts are the result of three years of his painstaking
effort and proof reading of his students.
This would be remembered as one of the greatest achievements
of Sanskrit and Indological studies in the twentieth century.
Since Prof. Tokunaga does not use e-mail currently, I put the
texts at the ftp site of my university.  The address is:
ccftp.kyoto-su.ac.jp
The texts are located at the directories:

Mahaabhaarata (in 16 files):

pub/doc/sanskrit/mahabharata
 name      size(compressed)
 m01_v1.e.Z  	374419
 m02_v1.e.Z  	122153
 m03_v1.e.Z  	540163
 m04_v1.e.Z   	 96793
 m05_v1.e.Z  	318910
 m06_v1.e.Z  	269731
 m07_v1.e.Z  	405899
 m08_v1.e.Z  	209643
 m09_v1.e.Z  	171229
 m10_v1.e.Z   	 42217
 m11_v1.e.Z   	 39302
 m12_v1.e.Z  	660513
 m13_v1.e.Z  	339581
 m14_v1.e.Z  	141755
 m15_v1.e.Z   	 55044
 m16-18_v1.e.Z 	32021Z
      
Raamaaya.na (in 7 files):

pub/doc/sanskrit/ramayana
 name      size(compressed)
 nr1.e.Z   97791 
 nr2.e.Z  172910 
 nr3.e.Z  110267 
 nr4.e.Z  104781 
 nr5.e.Z  144508 
 nr6.e.Z  242451 
 nr7.e.Z  137483 

If you want to send message of thanks to Prof. Tokunga I am willing
to convey.  His official address is:

Prof. Muneo TOKUNAGA,
Faculty of Lettere,
Department of History of Indian Philosophy,
Kyoto University,
Yoshida-honmachi,
Sakyo-ku, Kyoto
606 JAPAN


Michio YANO
Professor of Sanskrit,
Kyoto Sangyo University,
Kamigamo-motoyama,
Kita-ku, Kyoto
603 Japan
e-mail: yanom at cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp 
or      yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp
 





From ZYSK at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU  Tue Nov 15 13:03:48 1994
From: ZYSK at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU (ZYSK at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 09:03:48 -0400
Subject: address
Message-ID: <161227017823.23782.3420198974268042560.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Zimmermann's address in Montreal:

Prof. Francis Zimmermann
Department of Social Studies of Medicine
McGill University
McIntyre Med. Sci. Bldg.
3665 Drummond St.
Montreal H3G 1Y6
CANADA
Ph: 514-398-6033

Best,
KZ
 





From C.Wooff at liverpool.ac.uk  Tue Nov 15 09:19:28 1994
From: C.Wooff at liverpool.ac.uk (Chris Wooff)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 09:19:28 +0000
Subject: Disk quotas
Message-ID: <161227017818.23782.4639376547104281715.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

As administrator of Indology I get copies of all rejected mail which
can't get delivered to you. At present I'm seeing a lot of mail rejected
by sites which implement 'quotas' on their systems. This means that the
site rejects all mail messages to users whose mailbox size exceeds some
locally defined limit.

If you are at one of these sites then can you please try to ensure that
you leave sufficient space for incoming mail. By talking to your local
Computer Centre staff you may even be able to have this limit increased.
The consequences of doing nothing are that *any* mail to you (not just
from Indology) will not be delivered. In addition you will help reduce
the cost of managing the Indology list.

This morning I have had to remove two Indology subscribers who have
been over quota for a considerable time. I don't like having to do
this, but it is the only effective way to constrain this problem.

Thank you for reading this message.

Chris Wooff (C.Wooff at liverpool.ac.uk)
 





From ridgeway at blackbox.hacc.washington.edu  Tue Nov 15 17:41:30 1994
From: ridgeway at blackbox.hacc.washington.edu (Thomas B. Ridgeway)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 10:41:30 -0700
Subject: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA e-texts
Message-ID: <161227017830.23782.8784432112340123161.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Good day,
 
Below are some comments returned to correspondents in private mail
exchanges which may be of public interest.

I heartily agree that Tokunaga and his group have performed a remarkable
service to the Indological community; and, for that matter, to other
academic communities also, when they catch on.

Regarding the files on blackbox:
  All the files ending in .Z are compressed with the Unix 'compress' utility.
This is, ahh . . ., inconvenient, let us say, for those without access to
a unix system to uncompress them.  In the fullness of time, I intend to
have the uncompressed standard transcription files available, but for initial
rebroadcast it seems to me best to have the files here just as they have been
released.  Blackbox is a little squeezed for space so I cannot really store 
them uncompressed without doing some housekeeping, which I will do when the
retranscribed versions are ready.

Regarding retranscription, I will look for more feedback through the course 
of the day and night today.  If all seems well, I should be able to deposit
the remainder of both texts tomorrow (i.e. Wednesday morning Pacific coast
time).

Regarding transcription in the texts: 
  In the Mahabharata (so far as I have looked) a single period marks word 
separations both within and without compounds.  In the Ramayana I believe 
that two periods indicates word break, one period indicates compounded-
form-boundary.  
  Query: how would you think it best to retranscribe the '..' '.' 
notation?  Possibly replace '..' by space and leave '.' as it is?
 Also: in the Mahabharata ';' (semicolon) is sometimes used as a
middle-of-line divider in addition to doing duty as 'hiatus' marker.

cheers,
Tom
 





From kichenas at s5.math.umn.edu  Tue Nov 15 16:47:38 1994
From: kichenas at s5.math.umn.edu (Satyanad Kichenassamy)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 10:47:38 -0600
Subject: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA e-texts
Message-ID: <161227017825.23782.3670426708621797513.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

With reference to David Magier's message, it would be nice
if someone could post the exact e-mail address of the South Asia
Gopher and the Columbia ftp server (and of other sites which
cannot be inferred from those). It is indeed a good idea to
centralize this type of information. To disseminate the information
more widely, it may also be appropriate to post a brief table of
contents of available material on Usenet newsgroups such as
sci.lang, soc.culture.indian, soc.culture.tamil,... 
There is a proposal for a new sci.lang.sanskrit newsgroup.

Also, there are many classical musical compositions (with text and
sometimes notation) which have been posted on rec.music.indian.classical.
(Indian musical notation is relatively easy to put in ASCII form.)
Again, a centralized source of such material would be helpful.



                                Satyanad Kichenassamy
                                School of Mathematics
                                University of Minnesota
                                kichenas at math.umn.edu

 





From yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp  Tue Nov 15 04:04:28 1994
From: yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 13:04:28 +0900
Subject: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA e-texts
Message-ID: <161227017816.23782.9660065395555643107.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have put a slight change to readme.doc and added
Tokunaga's introductory notes.  I hope those who
already fetched readme.doc replace it by readme.001.

Michio YANO
 





From karina at uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu  Wed Nov 16 02:04:12 1994
From: karina at uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Karina Bingham)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 16:04:12 -1000
Subject: Call for Papers: Language and Prehistory in South Asia
Message-ID: <161227017834.23782.4413887040402738701.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


----------------------------------------------------------------
 
 The Center for South Asian Studies, School of Hawaiian, Asian and
Pacific Studies, University of Hawai`i, announces its Eleventh Annual
Spring Symposium entitled LANGUAGE AND PREHISTORY IN SOUTH ASIA, to be
held March 20 & 21, 1995 (Monday and Tuesday) from 9:00 am to 4:00 pm
on the University of Hawai`i at Manoa campus.
 Papers are invited up to thirty minutes in length, focusing on any
aspect of the structure, use, and history of any of the modern or
classical languages of South Asia (including Afghanistan, Bangladesh,
Bhutan, India, Maldives, Pakistan, Sikkim, Sri Lanka, and Tibet) as
well as relationships and contacts among the languages of this area
and between these languages and the languages of mainland and insular
South East Asia, East Asia, Central Asia, Western Asia, Africa or the
Pacific Islands (e.g. Fiji).  The proceedings will be published in
Summer or Fall 1995.
 Send abstracts (one copy, one page, not anonymous) to the attention
of Karina Bingham, Symposium Coordinator, Center for South Asian
Studies, Moore Hall 416, University of Hawai`i/Manoa, Honolulu, HI
96822.  For more information, contact Dr. Lawrence A. Reid, Dept. of
Linguistics, (808)956-3223 or reid at uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu.

 





From B56 at VM.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE  Tue Nov 15 18:19:54 1994
From: B56 at VM.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (aithal)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 18:19:54 +0000
Subject: a nirvacana of pums
Message-ID: <161227017827.23782.3381311507901520159.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

dear Dominic, it may look strange that I send this message as a reply
to your query. But it is not a reply. Just to get your e-mail address
I got in it. I did receive your nice card log ago. Thanks.
I hope your work on kiranagama is well in progress.
I wonder whether you could help me to contact Jim Benson. I heard he
is in Oxford. Does he work with computer ? e-mail ? Otherwise please
send me by e-mail his telephone number and when he is available on phone.
 
 
With best wishes, yours,
aithal
SAI, INF 330, 69120 Heidelberg.
 





From yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp  Tue Nov 15 10:49:42 1994
From: yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 19:49:42 +0900
Subject: Disk quotas
Message-ID: <161227017821.23782.17746644585832486480.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thank you for your warning.  I deleted more
than hundred mails in order to get a room
for new mail messages.

Michio YANO
 





From SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU  Wed Nov 16 03:34:13 1994
From: SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU (SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 21:34:13 -0600
Subject: The incredible Professor Tokunaga
Message-ID: <161227017836.23782.13771055450138140050.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

        May we request Professor Yano, if it is not too much trouble, to
keep the members of this list informed of the relevant publications of
Professor Tokunaga, stemming from his herculean efforts with the Epics?  I
am sure his discoveries and observations concerning metre and other matters
will be of deep interest to many members of this list.

        Also, just as a clarification: it was not my impression that it was
being suggested that any changes such as ".." to "space plus ." be made by
Professor Tokunaga.  Rather, I think this refers to the the conversion of
the files being prepared by Thomas B. Ridgeway at the University of
Washington.  I for one cannot imagine asking Professor Tokunaga to make
even one more iota of effort than he has already done -- except perhaps to
take a bow and accept the applause and accolades of his world-wide
admirers.

Jonathan Silk
SILK at AC.GRIN.EDU


 





From ridgeway at blackbox.hacc.washington.edu  Wed Nov 16 14:32:34 1994
From: ridgeway at blackbox.hacc.washington.edu (Thomas B. Ridgeway)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 07:32:34 -0700
Subject: The incredible Professor Tokunaga
Message-ID: <161227017844.23782.2545627324623073606.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Michio Yano responded (>>) to my remarks (>) and Jonathan Silk
followed up (>>>)
>  Query: how would you think it best to retranscribe the '..' '.'
>notation?  Possibly replace '..' by space and leave '.' as it is?
>>I will convey your message to Muneo Tokunaga, but changes of such
>>kind are better made by the user himself.

> Also: in the Mahabharata ';' (semicolon) is sometimes used as a
>middle-of-line divider in addition to doing duty as 'hiatus' marker.
>>Tokunaga has put this mark in order to analyse meter of the epics.
>>His very interesting paper will soon appear.

>>>         Also, just as a clarification: it was not my impression that it was
>>> being suggested that any changes such as ".." to "space plus ." be made by
>>> Professor Tokunaga.  Rather, I think this refers to the the conversion of
>>> the files being prepared by Thomas B. Ridgeway at the University of
>>> Washington.  I for one cannot imagine asking Professor Tokunaga to make
>>> even one more iota of effort than he has already done -- except perhaps to
>>> take a bow and accept the applause and accolades of his world-wide
>>> admirers.
    
  Jonathan is correct about my intention, and since I was not crytal clear 
about saying what I meant the first time, allow me this opportunity to
say that I think that the transcription of the epics is a magnificent gift
to the community.  Further, the transcriptions in their released form
are extremely well suited for use: they are not broken, and do not need
to be fixed.  The changes I am suggesting are changes for convenience
of use with some of the systems for rendering Indic in transcription;
for other purposes, e.g. generating a concordance, I will no doubt retain
the transcription with the period as division marker since it is, in some
respects, easier to parse that way.  And, indeed, the changes I am 
suggesting I intend to implement myself.

cheers,
Tom
-- 
 





From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov  Wed Nov 16 14:13:19 1994
From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 08:13:19 -0600
Subject: Indological PhDs and few Old Tamil Ref's
Message-ID: <161227017840.23782.6255773540709371312.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>




    Indological PhDs and Some References on Old Tamil
   --------------------------------------------------

This is a reply to Jan Dvorak's query. This not a very
exhaustive list. 

V. S. Rajam, A reference grammar of classical Tamil poetry,
American Philosophical Society, 1992. 1081 p.

Thomas Malten, Word index of old Tamil cankam literature,
Stuttgart, 425 p.

Dissertations:
--------------

Doctoral Dissertations on Asia, (A Serial from 1975). 
Association of Asian Studies, Univ. of Michigan

Annie M. Thomas, Dissertations on Tamilology,
International Institute of Tamil Studies, Madras, 1977, 289 p.

Ramasamy Periakaruppan (Tamilannal)
tamiliyal Ayvu, 1983 Maturai Kamaraj University

tamiliyal Ayvu, Second edition, 1988, Maturai Kamaraj University

B. Rajannan, South Indian Studies: Abstracts of American doctoral
dissertations relating to South India. Salem, 1981, 439 p.

Association of Indian Universities, New Delhi
Bibliography of Doctoral Dissertations; social sciences and
humanities. 
I have seen two volumes (1970-1975 and 1957-1970)


N. Ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov
 





From magier at columbia.edu  Wed Nov 16 14:20:26 1994
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 09:20:26 -0500
Subject: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA e-texts
Message-ID: <161227017841.23782.8472659944578359199.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> With reference to David Magier's message, it would be nice
> if someone could post the exact e-mail address of the South Asia
> Gopher and the Columbia ftp server

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
HOW TO CONNECT TO THE SAG:

Simply gopher to: <gopher.cc.columbia.edu 71>; and then navigate down
through the menus as follows (Be sure to use port 71):
CLIO Plus/SELECTED TOPICS/South Asia.

If you have a gopher client software, use the following pointer ('bookmark'):
	Type=1
	Name=The South Asia Gopher
	Host=gopher.cc.columbia.edu
	Port=71
	Path=1/clioplus/scholarly/SouthAsia

---------OR-------------

Simply telnet to: <columbianet.columbia.edu>. Once connected to
Columbianet, select the menu item marked "CLIO Plus." Within that menu,
you'll find an item on the list labelled "SELECTED TOPICS: Internet
Resources By Subject" Select that one, and within it you'll find the South
Asia Gopher! 

---------OR-------------

If you use MOSAIC or Lynx other web-browser, use this URL: 
     gopher://gopher.cc.columbia.edu:71/11/clioplus/scholarly/SouthAsia

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

> It is indeed a good idea to
> centralize this type of information. To disseminate the information
> more widely, it may also be appropriate to post a brief table of
> contents of available material on Usenet newsgroups such as
> sci.lang, soc.culture.indian, soc.culture.tamil,... 
> Also, there are many classical musical compositions (with text and
> sometimes notation) which have been posted on rec.music.indian.classical.
> (Indian musical notation is relatively easy to put in ASCII form.)
> Again, a centralized source of such material would be helpful.

These are all there within the South Asia Gopher. Look within the
SOUTH ASIANISTS submenu, in the item marked USENET Newsgroups. (Note:
actual access to the Usenet articles in these newsgroups only works if
you access the SAG by telnet as above. For some reason, we cannot get
this access to work if you go via gopher client or WWW browser. We are
still trying to fix this...)

As for the Columbia FTP server, its address is ftp.cc.columbia.edu
but note that there are not yet any indological files to be found
there.

Hope this helps. And, as always, please send feedback on the SAG (and
submit your entries to have yourselves listed in The International
Directory of South Asia Scholars -- let me know if you need info on
that).

David Magier            <magier at columbia.edu>
South Asia Librarian
and
South Asia Gopher
Columbia University
 





From yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp  Wed Nov 16 01:47:23 1994
From: yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 10:47:23 +0900
Subject: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA e-texts
Message-ID: <161227017832.23782.15536769158019907511.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>  Query: how would you think it best to retranscribe the '..' '.'
>notation?  Possibly replace '..' by space and leave '.' as it is?
I will convey your message to Muneo Tokunaga, but changes of such 
kind are better made by the user himself.

> Also: in the Mahabharata ';' (semicolon) is sometimes used as a
>middle-of-line divider in addition to doing duty as 'hiatus' marker.
Tokunaga has put this mark in order to analyse meter of the epics.
His very interesting paper will soon appear.

Michio YANO
 





From marcus.banks at anthropology.oxford.ac.uk  Wed Nov 16 12:10:36 1994
From: marcus.banks at anthropology.oxford.ac.uk (marcus.banks at anthropology.oxford.ac.uk)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 12:10:36 +0000
Subject: Looking for Julia Leslie
Message-ID: <161227017838.23782.2988933131480324992.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Julia Leslie has posted in the last couple of months from Bangalore, but
like a fool I've deleted the messages and hence the email address. If
anyone out there can supply me with it (maybe Julia herself) I'd be very
grateful.

Thanks,

Marcus Banks, Oxford


 





From magier at columbia.edu  Wed Nov 16 21:43:40 1994
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 16:43:40 -0500
Subject: [Barbara Claire Gombach <bcg2@columbia.edu>: Asian American Policy         Review -- Call for Papers (fwd)]
Message-ID: <161227017846.23782.4087108281186515654.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

For your information. Forwarded by David Magier (South Asia Gopher)

                ---------------





From ridgeway at blackbox.hacc.washington.edu  Thu Nov 17 00:25:12 1994
From: ridgeway at blackbox.hacc.washington.edu (Thomas B. Ridgeway)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 17:25:12 -0700
Subject: Mahaabhaarata and Raamaayana
Message-ID: <161227017851.23782.10814105673735881027.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Good Day to you all,

Alternate transcriptions of the Mahabharata and Ramayana for
use with CSX or HACCIndic viewers are now available at
  blackbox.hacc.washington.edu in directory pub/indic/Tokunaga

The files are stored in zip archives, to be ftp'ed in binary
mode and then unzipped on your end.

The new files are:
-rw-r--r--  1 ridgeway 4014436 Nov 16 17:11 mb_csx.zip  mahabharat for CSX
-rw-r--r--  1 ridgeway 4014436 Nov 16 17:12 mb_win.zip  mahabharat for Windows
-rw-r--r--  1 ridgeway 1049576 Nov 16 17:12 ram_csx.zip ramayana for CSX
-rw-r--r--  1 ridgeway 1049576 Nov 16 17:13 ram_win.zip ramayana for Windows
'for Windows' means use with the HACCIndic character set.
  
  The files will unzip to nearly three times the sizes indicated above for
the zipped format.

cheers,
Tom

-- 
 





From ridgeway at blackbox.hacc.washington.edu  Thu Nov 17 21:34:42 1994
From: ridgeway at blackbox.hacc.washington.edu (Thomas B. Ridgeway)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 14:34:42 -0700
Subject: Indic etexts and Macs
Message-ID: <161227017859.23782.9953301036279664167.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Good day to you all,

A few people have experienced some difficulty in finding a
way to make use of the recently available etext material
on Macintosh computers.  There are now a few more resources
which may be helpful.

All files below are now available on blackbox.hacc.washington.edu
All of these are in Macintosh binhex format: you must be able to unbinhex
them on your end: if you don't know how to do this there will certainly
be a Macintosh guru just down the hall from you who can help.

/ftp/pub/indic/Tokunaga/Unzip_5.0p1.hqx  : a program to unzip zip-archives
/ftp/pub/indic/Tokunaga/unzipmac5.0p1.cpt.hqx : the same, but will
   supporting documents, a copy of the General Public License, the source
   code, etc.
/ftp/pub/indic/outlines/HACC_Indic.hqx  : a Macintosh font suitcase with
         the Charter-based ANSI-semi-compatible indic font
/ftp/pub/indic/outlines/Velthuis_Nagari.hqx : same, but the unfinished-needs
         -work version of Velthuis nagari.
/ftp/pub/indic/outlines/Washington_Greek.hqx :  
/ftp/pub/indic/outlines/Washington_Indic.hqx : the CSX-compatible layout of 
          the Indic font.

cheers,
Tom
-- 
 





From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov  Thu Nov 17 20:58:17 1994
From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 14:58:17 -0600
Subject: Other UMI databases
Message-ID: <161227017857.23782.13388543212981629283.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



        University Microfilms Inc (UMI) Database
        ----------------------------------------
As Dr. D. Keown has written, UMI database can be searched
for any dissertation on Religion, Theology and Philosophy.
The gopher address is gopher://gopher.umi.com

But is there a way to search the UMI database on doctoral dissertations
on other subjects of indological interest like art, architecture, 
language, literature, history, ethonology, arts and crafts, performing arts, 
etc.,

Any pointers??

N. Ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov


 





From conlon at u.washington.edu  Thu Nov 17 22:58:23 1994
From: conlon at u.washington.edu (Frank Conlon)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 14:58:23 -0800
Subject: Other UMI databases
Message-ID: <161227017861.23782.3917151818925518852.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

So far as I know, the Religion, Theology and Philosophy is the ONLY 
portion of the UMI list to be available on e-mail.  I think they plan on 
doing more, although the incentives  may lead them to do the next test 
case on something in the sciences or technology.



Frank F. Conlon
Professor of History
University of Washington
Seattle, WA 98195
Co-moderator of H-ASIA
<conlon at u.washington.edu>


On Thu, 17 Nov 1994, Ganesan wrote:

> 
> 
>         University Microfilms Inc (UMI) Database
>         ----------------------------------------
> As Dr. D. Keown has written, UMI database can be searched
> for any dissertation on Religion, Theology and Philosophy.
> The gopher address is gopher://gopher.umi.com
> 
> But is there a way to search the UMI database on doctoral dissertations
> on other subjects of indological interest like art, architecture, 
> language, literature, history, ethonology, arts and crafts, performing arts, 
> etc.,
> 
> Any pointers??
> 
> N. Ganesan
> nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov
> 
> 
>  
> 
 





From rwl at uts.cc.utexas.edu  Thu Nov 17 23:02:22 1994
From: rwl at uts.cc.utexas.edu (rwl at uts.cc.utexas.edu)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 18:02:22 -0500
Subject: Mahaabhaarata and Raamaayana available
Message-ID: <161227017863.23782.17207398051476672262.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dr. Yano:

Please convey my heartiest congratulations to Tokunaga for this remarkable
effort!

With all good wishes,

Richard Lariviere




 





From d.keown at goldsmiths.ac.uk  Thu Nov 17 18:13:52 1994
From: d.keown at goldsmiths.ac.uk (d.keown at goldsmiths.ac.uk)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 18:13:52 +0000
Subject: Indological PhDs and few Old Tamil Ref's
Message-ID: <161227017855.23782.14001952207030957783.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but the gopher-based University
Microfilms Inc (UMI) database of doctoral dissertations is a good place to
locate theses on just about any topic.
 
The database itself has a useful keyword search facility and there are
instructions for ordering copies (cost around $36) by phone or fax. A search
on "Buddhism" brings up a lot, but I don't know about other aspects of Indology.

There's a tie-in from the Journal of Buddhist Ethics WWW Global Resources
page. Access is available via:
http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/jbe.html    (USA)
http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe             (Europe)
*************************************************
Damien Keown <d.keown at gold.ac.uk>
Department of Historical & Cultural Studies
University of London, Goldsmiths
London UK, SE14 6NW                                                    
*************************************************

 





From giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it  Thu Nov 17 18:52:16 1994
From: giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it (carlo della casa)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 18:52:16 +0000
Subject: The incredible Professor Tokunaga
Message-ID: <161227017853.23782.8407179723188056325.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 I would like to join in Jonathan Silk's enthusiasm and warmest congratulations for prof. Tokunaga and his students  - on the network, of course!

 I'm sure that a lot of us have already done it privately.
 
 All the best,
 
 Alex Passi
 giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it
 

 





From giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it  Fri Nov 18 08:25:50 1994
From: giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it (carlo della casa)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 08:25:50 +0000
Subject: Indic etexts and Macs---> what about windows?
Message-ID: <161227017865.23782.12098278521411674759.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 If it's any use to anyone, we have developed a Truetype font based on Times for the Mac which translates into Wndows through the Converters supplied with Microsoft Word./
 I am preparing a transcript of prof. Tokunaga's work in that font - not an easy task with a small computer.

 All the best,

 Alex Passi
 U. of Bologna
 giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it


 





From A.BURTON at student.anu.edu.au  Fri Nov 18 23:33:34 1994
From: A.BURTON at student.anu.edu.au (A.BURTON at student.anu.edu.au)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 18:33:34 -0500
Subject: where is V.S. Rajan?
Message-ID: <161227017867.23782.16718582200695554941.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anyone know the whereabouts of V.S. Rajan, author of "A Grammar of
Classical Tamil Poetry" (1992) published by the American Philosphical Soc.?

 


>?From dom at vigyan.iisc.ernet.in 18 94 Nov EST 15:38:55
Date: 18 Nov 94 15:38:55 EST (Fri)
From: dom at vigyan.iisc.ernet.in
Subject: Return to the net


Dear colleagues,
I've been off the net for a while -- a month to be exact -- and now
I'm back I find that a disk crash on the vigyan machine has caused
all email between 10th and 25th of October to be lost. So if you
sent me anything important in that period, please send it again.
This applies to Julia Leslie too, who also has an account
on vigyan.

Many thanks,
Dominik Wujastyk
 





From yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp  Sat Nov 19 00:11:08 1994
From: yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp (yanom at ksuvx0.kyoto-su.ac.jp)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 94 09:11:08 +0900
Subject: Return to the net
Message-ID: <161227017869.23782.10753657350851350049.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dominik,
I am glad to know that you are back to the net.  I hope
you have not missed my announcement about the e-texts of
mahaabhaarata anda raamaayana.
Michio YANO
 





From d.keown at goldsmiths.ac.uk  Sat Nov 19 15:01:12 1994
From: d.keown at goldsmiths.ac.uk (d.keown at goldsmiths.ac.uk)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 94 15:01:12 +0000
Subject: Return to the net
Message-ID: <161227017871.23782.16301649424549375552.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi Dominik,

>Dear colleagues,
>I've been off the net for a while -- a month to be exact -- and now
>I'm back I find that a disk crash on the vigyan machine has caused
>all email between 10th and 25th of October to be lost. So if you
>sent me anything important in that period, please send it again.
>This applies to Julia Leslie too, who also has an account
>on vigyan.

I wouldn't say it was "important" but I sent a note to Julia on the dates in
question thanking her for some suggestions about what to read on women in
India for a lecture I've foolishly offerred to give. Please pass on my
thanks again, and I hope you had a great time in the Maldives.

Best,
Damien
*************************************************
Damien Keown <d.keown at gold.ac.uk>
Department of Historical & Cultural Studies
University of London, Goldsmiths
London UK, SE14 6NW                                                    
*************************************************

 





From srice at cruzio.com  Sun Nov 20 05:41:22 1994
From: srice at cruzio.com (Stanley Rice)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 94 21:41:22 -0800
Subject: Free book files on Self-Realization, Ramana Maharshi
Message-ID: <161227017873.23782.1877308065193396029.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

*****************************************************************

        FREE BOOKS, AND INFORMATION IN ELECTRONIC FILES

        ON: ABIDANCE IN FREEDOM, HAPPINESS, AND REALITY


Some of the best things in life are free. The Society of Abidance 
in Truth (SAT) is now offering some of the "best of the best" 
publications, using electronic publishing. They respond to your 
interest in the great spiritual tradition of nonduality, and the 
profound teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi.

You can now obtain some of these most valuable materials ever
offered, absolutely free, electronically--mailed directly to your
E-mail address. You can then decide whether you might want
them in the more traditional form of books. If enough people want
them in book form SAT will endeavor to publish them--either by
normal publishing or by subscription. 

Several of the offerings below contain parts of books that are
already published. The incredible RIBHU GITA, for example, is
printed and is now (11/94) being prepared for shipment from India. 
(The first 3 chapters are provided free, as the file RIBHU-1.) 

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in Truth are also available free:

  "RAYS OF THE ULTIMATE" (the first part available free as RAYS-1),
  "NIRGUNA MANASA PUJA" by Sri Sankara (see the file NIRGUNAD), and 
  "WHO WE REALLY ARE" by Master Nome (a discourse, in file WHO-1)

SAT also tells you about great books from other publishers. Two of
the offerings below (TREAS-1 and TREAS-2) are book lists of hard-
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These are treasures indeed. TREAS-1P and TREAS-2P also give prices.

****************************************************************

To receive any of the files listed below please send a message to:

   RAMANA at CRUZIO.COM   (or srice at cruzio.com)

Include in your request the keyword listed below for each file
you want. Files will be E-mailed to you. Some of these free files 
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Keyword           Topic
^^^^^^^           ^^^^^
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BOOKS-AD       Notice on TREAS1 and TREAS2 book lists (3k)
NIRGUNA        New book: Nirguna Manasa Puja by Sri Sankara (6k)
RAYS-1         New book: disciple's memories of Sri Atmananda (29k)
RIBHU-AD       New book notice: description of the Ribhu Gita (3k)
RIBHU-1        The first 3 chapters of the new Ribhu Gita (35k)
SAGEATMA       Life sketch of the Sage Atmananda (19k)
SAT-INFO       Introduces Society of Abidance in Truth (11k)
SATHOME1       (This file)
SATS1-AD       Notice on the WHO-1 satsang with Master Nome (3k)
SWAMI-S        A charming note by a disciple of Sri Ramana (5k)
TREAS-1        Book list on Sri Ramana Maharshi (36k)
TREAS-2        Book list on many nondual Sages (35k)
TREAS-1P       Book list on Sri Ramana Maharshi (with prices) (36k)
TREAS-2P       Book list on many nondual Sages (with prices) (36k)
WHO-1          Book: discourse on nonduality by Master Nome (17k)
WISE-1         "Among the Wise", a description of SAT ashram (36k)

*****************************************************************

You are warmly invited to call, write or visit SAT (sometimes known
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of the great Sri Ramana Maharshi.

The Society of Abidance in Truth (SAT)
1834 Ocean Street
Santa Cruz, California 95060  Voice: (408) 425-7287.

Internet address: RAMANA at CRUZIO.COM  (or srice at cruzio.com)
(To get THIS FILE IMMEDIATELY you can "Finger" srice at cruzio.com)

******************************************************************


-- 
Stan Rice, Autospec Inc, srice at cruzio.com  



 





From conlon at u.washington.edu  Sun Nov 20 18:21:20 1994
From: conlon at u.washington.edu (Frank Conlon)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 10:21:20 -0800
Subject: Query: Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu
Message-ID: <161227017880.23782.6522673252747391647.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Colleagues, I reproduce herewith a query just received and posted on 
H-ASIA.  Professor Rabe appears to be seeking works in translation, but 
further discussion of the question of identification of the Buddha as an 
avatar and suggestions for further sources on the subject would be 
appreciated. Thank you.

Frank F. Conlon
Professor of History
University of Washington
Seattle, WA 98195
Co-moderator of H-ASIA
<conlon at u.washington.edu>
---------------
>From conlon at u.washington.eduSun Nov 20 10:17:00 1994
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 10:15:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Frank Conlon <conlon at u.washington.edu>
To: H-ASIA at uicvm.uic.edu
Subject: H-ASIA: Query: Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu

				  H-ASIA
			      November 20, 1994

Query: Hinduism on Buddhism: Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu
******************************************************************************
From: Michael Rabe <RABE at vaxd.sxu.EDU>
Subject: Hinduism on Buddhism

A student of mine would like to follow up on the puranic rationale for 
Visnu's avatar as the Buddha, but I'm at a loss to suggest further readings:

[When gods had been defeated by demons] "lord Visnu heard their request,  he
emited from his body a deluding form of his magic power of illusion
(maya-moha), and he gave it to the supreme gods and said, 'This magic deluder
will bewitch all the demons so that they will be excluded from the paths of the
Vedas, and thus they will be susceptible to slaughter.... [Visnu Purana, trans.
Wendy (O'Flaherty) Doniger,Hindu Myths, p. 232]

Bhagavata I.3.24: Then after full advent of the Kali Age, (He) will be born
with Buddha as his name, and as a son of Ajana in the Kikuta country. 11.7.37:
Seeing that asuras who follow the path of Veda will harass the world,
travelling in cities, moving with invisible velocity constructed by Maya, he
will assume the disguise of heritics, deluding the mind and attracting the
heart of asuras, he will extensively explain to them heretic doctrines.

Any leads to similar passages or secondary source studies will be duly
forwarded and put to use in a research paper.

Thanks,

Michael Rabe, Ph.D.
Saint Xavier University, Chicago
	(South Indianist art historian)
******************************************************************************
   To post to  H-ASIA  simply send your message to either
                    H-ASIA at uicvm.uic.edu
                         or
                    H-ASIA at uicvm.bitnet

Private questions should go either to:
               Leibo at ALBNYVMS.bitnet or to
               conlon at u.washington.edu

               Frank F. Conlon
               University of Washington, Seattle
               Co-Moderator, H-ASIA



 





From vineet at bocaraton.ibm.com  Sun Nov 20 15:53:45 1994
From: vineet at bocaraton.ibm.com (vineet at bocaraton.ibm.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 10:53:45 -0500
Subject: Free book files on Self-Realization, Ramana Maharshi
Message-ID: <161227017876.23782.9977346758920219504.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hello,
	Thanks for your mail. Please send me all the e-texts (full form).
Bye,
Vineet.
Internet: vineet at bocaraton.ibm.com
 





From vineet at bocaraton.ibm.com  Sun Nov 20 16:25:14 1994
From: vineet at bocaraton.ibm.com (vineet at bocaraton.ibm.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 11:25:14 -0500
Subject: Free book files on Self-Realization, Ramana Maharshi
Message-ID: <161227017878.23782.4993730463680827269.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hello
	I am sorry for the last message. It was meant for only the original
sender. 
Bye,
Vineet.
 





From conlon at u.washington.edu  Mon Nov 21 00:20:09 1994
From: conlon at u.washington.edu (Frank Conlon)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 16:20:09 -0800
Subject: Fairservis - Harappan Script
Message-ID: <161227017885.23782.2403741502406769508.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The reference is:

Walter Fairservis, The Harappan Civilization and its language: A model 
for the decipherment of the Indus Script
(Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1992)  ISBN 9004090665.
Sorry, don't have the current Brill American address to hand.



Frank F. Conlon
Professor of History
University of Washington
Seattle, WA 98195
Co-moderator of H-ASIA
<conlon at u.washington.edu>


On Mon, 21 Nov 1994, Bennett Blumenberg wrote:

> I would most appreciate a full reference to the recent (?1992) 
> book by Fairservis about the Harappan Civilization script.
> ISBN number would also be of use as would a US address for EJ 
> Brill the publisher.
> 
> With many thanks in advance.
> 
> Ben Blumenberg - bennett at pipeline.com
> 
>  
> 
 





From nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov  Sun Nov 20 23:48:58 1994
From: nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov (nas_ng at lms420.jsc.nasa.gov)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 17:48:58 -0600
Subject: Query: Tamil Saints in South East Asia
Message-ID: <161227017883.23782.7508164312901444674.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

          Tamil Saiva Saints  in Cambodia?
          ---------------------------------

Karaikkal Ammaiyar (5th cenury A.D.?) is represented sculpturally in several
Cambodian temples. She is one of the Tamil Saiva saints called Naayanmars.
Indira Peterson has translated some of Nayanmars poems. (Poems to Siva,
Princeton, 1989). Their legends appear later in Telugu (Siva's warriors, 
Velcheru Narayana Rao, Princeton University press) and in Kannada 
(Ragale poems of Haridasas). Also, their stories appear in Sanskrit as
Upamanyu Bhakta vilasam and Sri Puranam (on Saint Sundarar).  I have 
seen the references given at the end.

Are there any stories/folklore in Cambodian literature referring 
to Tamil or South Indian or Indian Saiva saints or Alvars (vaishnava saints)?
Is there any tradition in Cambodia and its literature or any South East
Asian literatures connected to South Indian/ Tamil Saiva saints?
I am posing this question because Karaikkal Ammaiyar is represented in so many
sculptures of Cambodia and so her story must be widely known there.
And, the literature must have traces of it.

If so, any western language articles on it. What period
do these literatures belong to? the age of great Khmer temples???

Any pointers welcome. Thanks a bunch.

N. Ganesan
nas_ng at lms461.jsc.nasa.gov

References:
-----------
1) Benisti, Mireille
Notes d'iconographie Khmer, 7, Karaikkalammaiyar,
Bulletin de l'Ecole Francoise d'Extreme-Orient, Tome 55,
pp. 159-161, pls. 16, 17, 18 and 19.

2) Benisti, M.
Karaikkal ammaiyar in Cambodia.
Proceedings of the Second International Conference-Seminar
of Tamil studies, Madras, 1968, p. 398-404

3) Fickle, Dorothy H.
Karaikkalammaiyar, Saint and Poetess.
The Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art bulletin, vol. 5, no. 8
July 1983, p. 19-37.

On Nayanmars:
-------------
4) G. Vanmikanathan
Periya Puranam, a Tamil classic on the great Saiva Saints of
South India.
Madras: Sri Ramakrishna Math, 1985, 578 p.

5) V. Dehejia
Slaves of the Lord: The path of the Tamil Saints.
Delhi: Munshiram Manoharlal, 1988 206 p. 48 p. of plates

6) D. Shulman,
Hungry God, Hindu tales of filicide and devotion.
University of Chicago press, 1993. 157 p.

7) R. Nagaswamy, Sivabhakti (On Saint Appar)
Delhi: Navrang, 1989. 292 p. + 49 p. of plates

8) Srinatha (1400-1440), Hara Vilasa Kavyamu
in Telugu.
etc..,


 





From bennett at pipeline.com  Sun Nov 20 23:31:18 1994
From: bennett at pipeline.com (Bennett Blumenberg)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 18:31:18 -0500
Subject: Fairservis - Harappan Script
Message-ID: <161227017881.23782.12330165135049387732.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I would most appreciate a full reference to the recent (?1992) 
book by Fairservis about the Harappan Civilization script.
ISBN number would also be of use as would a US address for EJ 
Brill the publisher.

With many thanks in advance.

Ben Blumenberg - bennett at pipeline.com

 





From pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu  Mon Nov 21 13:41:15 1994
From: pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu (pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 94 05:41:15 -0800
Subject: Fairservis - Harappan Script
Message-ID: <161227017888.23782.3666927905142727971.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The reference requested by Mr. Blumenberg is:
Walter Fairservis, _The Harappan Civilization and its Writing: A 
Model ffor theDecipherment of the Indus Script_. New Delhi: Oxford &
IBH Publishing Co. Pvt.Ltd.  (1992).
Peter J. Claus
 





From magier at columbia.edu  Mon Nov 21 12:00:21 1994
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 94 07:00:21 -0500
Subject: Fairservis - Harappan Script
Message-ID: <161227017887.23782.1230602326492396442.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> I would most appreciate a full reference to the recent (?1992) 
> book by Fairservis about the Harappan Civilization script.

Fairservis, Walter Ashlin, 1921-
  The Harappan civilization and its writing : a model for the
  decipherment of the Indus script / by Walter A. Fairservis. --
  Leiden ; New York : E.J. Brill, 1992.
  viii, 239 p. : ill., map ; 25 cm.

  Includes bibliographical references (p. 140-148).
  ISBN 9004090665 (E.J. Brill: cloth) -- ISBN 8120404912 (Oxford&IBH)

  1. Indus script. 2. Indus civilization. I. Title.

  LCCN: 9131028
  L.C. CALL NO: PK119.5.F34 1992


--------------------
David Magier
 





From magier at columbia.edu  Tue Nov 22 15:46:24 1994
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 10:46:24 -0500
Subject: Library help wanted, please
Message-ID: <161227017891.23782.11641078909164070265.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> _Profiles of districts_ Bombay, Centre for Monitering Indian Economy

>From RLIN I detect holdings at UC Berkeley, with a listing as follows:

Profiles of districts / Centre for Monitoring Indian Economy. --
Bombay : The Centre,
  v. : ill. ; 27 cm.

  035: (CU)GLAD151171560
  ID: CUBGGLAD151171560-S         CC: 9665       DCF: a
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
SSEA   HC431.E2P75 PERMANENT RESERVE
   1985-


 





From marcus.banks at anthropology.oxford.ac.uk  Tue Nov 22 14:17:53 1994
From: marcus.banks at anthropology.oxford.ac.uk (marcus.banks at anthropology.oxford.ac.uk)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 14:17:53 +0000
Subject: Library help wanted, please
Message-ID: <161227017890.23782.711400103665945266.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I'm posting on behalf of a non-computerate Indologist in the US who is
trying to find the following publication in any *US* library:

_Profiles of districts_ Bombay, Centre for Monitering Indian Economy

>From what I can tell from my source it is an annual publication in book
form; I have no ISBN number and am not sure how long it has been going. The
entries for each district appear to cover geography, natural resources and
'39 key economic and social indicators'.

Many thanks in advance and please post directly to me to save bandwidth.

Marcus Banks  <marcus.banks at anthro.ox.ac.uk>


 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Tue Nov 22 19:50:17 1994
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 14:50:17 -0500
Subject: Help on using Binhex4.0
Message-ID: <161227017893.23782.13687461834877553397.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	I downloaded the first of the Mahabharata files from Washington 
FTP site.  Then I tried unbinhexing it.  The second step did not work.  
Could some Binhex Guru tell me how to use the Binhex4.0 program?  Its 
menus are not terribly obvious to common humans like me.  Thanks.
	Madhav Deshpande
 





From WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU  Wed Nov 23 06:07:37 1994
From: WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 01:07:37 -0500
Subject: CONF. on BRIDE BURNING
Message-ID: <161227017895.23782.5494950531451798245.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

          CONFERENCE ON DOWRY AND BRIDE BURNING 

                JUNE 1995, Cambridge MA, USA  


								November 19, 1994

 My friend Himendra Thakur has asked me to post the appended
 announcement. Some of you may have already met him at the
 IXth World Sanskrit Conference in Melbourne where he gave a
 talk in my section (Veda) dealing with the issues of Sati, 
 excessive dowry and its recent development, bride burning.
 He has been engaged with these issues for a number of years
 and has also written a brief novel on bride burning.    

 Earlier this year, he officially registered a foundation in
 Massachusetts, the International Society Against Dowry and
 Bride Burning in India, whose aim it is to do whatever
 possible to stop this practice.

 To further the cause he is now preparing an international
 conference to be held next Spring or early Summer at
 Cambridge, MA, USA. Persons who have shown interest and
 have agreed to come and to attend the conference include
 women lawyers from India who represent the victims and some
 well-known scholars working on these topics and/or in Women
 Studies.  

 If you are interested to form local or national chapters
 (outside the US), please, contact him or write c/o my
 address.  
                                                   M.W. 

 Here is the
             CONFERENCE  ANNOUNCEMENT:


>>     AN APPEAL TO SCHOLARS OF INDIAN CULTURE

Most sincerely we invite you to participate in "The First
 International Conference on Dowry and Bride-burning in
 India" to be held in June next year in Cambridge,
 Massachusetts, jointly sponsored by the International
 Society Against Dowry and Bride Burning in India, Inc., a
 non-profit organization incorporated in Massachusetts, and 
 South Asian Studies, Harvard University. 

Extortion of dowry money in marriages has reached a
 desperate proportion in modern India. Thousands of newly
 married women are burnt alive every year by their in-laws
 because their fathers may have failed to pay the
 outstanding dowry installment. Already on November 11,
 1984, the American TV station CBS ("60 Minutes") reported
 that 500 young women were burned that year in the Delhi
 area alone. The Boston Globe reported 11,259 burnings from
 1988 to 1990. CBS re-ran the segment on January 25, 1993.
 Statistics collected in India show an increase of these
 figures.

The acknowledgement and awareness of dowry and bride-burning
 should begin at its source: in India. Unfortunately, the
 social, political and administrative leaders in India seem
 uninterested. Characteristically, their first reaction is
 to deny the tragedy, minimize its gravity and stereotype it
 as a media propaganda. People seem to feel no guilt when
 they burn a bride. The root of this strange behavior is not
 clearly understood. 

To raise consciousness in India would require a national
 shock treatment. International condemnation is likely to
 start that shock, because the people of India still place 
 great value on world opinion. The Conference will platform
 a worldwide protest against this evil practice and will
 analyze how India, seat of a great and ancient
 civilization, could fall into moral decadence of such a
 magnitude. The solution of the problem may be found in the
 ancient Dharma texts themselves and in spiritual wisdom of
 India's own philosophy. Research articles are being invited
 from scholars on Indian culture and history (by April
 1995). They will be published in the souvenir of the
 Conference.

Ending this tragedy requires the active support of the
 scholars of Indian culture. We are confident that your
 participation will have a deep impact in India and
 thousands of young lives will be saved. We fervently hope
 that you will accept our invitation.  

                               Himendra B. Thakur

Please contact:  
 Himendra B. Thakur, (FAX 508-740-0504) Chair, Board of
 Directors, International Society Against Dowry and Bride
 Burning in India, Inc., P.O. Box 8766, Salem, MA 01971, USA 

or: Michael Witzel, Chair, Department of Sanskrit & Indian
 Studies, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA-02138 
 (phone: 617-495-3295, fax: 617-496 8571, 
 email: Witzel at husc3.harvard.edu).          << 
 





From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu  Wed Nov 23 13:44:16 1994
From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (rrocher at sas.upenn.edu)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 08:44:16 -0500
Subject: Ayurvedic medicine
Message-ID: <161227017896.23782.2613956692086489664.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A graduate student in Sociology at the University of Pennsylvania 
is beginning work on a doctoral dissertation about the practice of 
Ayurvedic medicine in North America.  I first thought of introducing 
her electronically to Mitchell Weiss (hi, Mitch!) and Kenneth Zysk
(whose direct electronic address I mislaid, sorry, Ken), but, on 
further reflection, I thought that some other people interested in 
the same subject might wish also to get in touch with her. 

Her name is  Sita Reddy, 
her electronic address is  sreddy0 at sas.upenn.edu. 

Happy Thanksgiving! 

Rosane Rocher
 





From jage at loc.gov  Wed Nov 23 14:51:48 1994
From: jage at loc.gov (jage at loc.gov)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 09:51:48 -0500
Subject: Sorting Indic Script
Message-ID: <161227017898.23782.11166823008011091865.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

                                  Wednesday, November 23, 1994
Indologists,
     Could anyone point me to a reference on sorting Indic scripts
(preferably in English)?  Not transliteration but the order of
entries in dictionaries for languages using Devanagari or other
South Asian (and Southeast Asian?) scripts.  The order of vowels
and consonants seems clear enough but I could use some guidance
on topics such as the following:  
     1. Are syllables ending with anusvara, anunasika (candrdbindu)
and Visara interfiled before syllables without these marks? Or is
there a desired hierarchy among these marks?  For example, using
N for anusvara, C for candribindu, V for visarga and capital
letters for long vowels, is this the desired order of these
made up words?  paNka, paCka, paVka, paNga, paka, pAka.
     2.  How does avagraha (one or two ofthem) effect sorting?
     3.  Why are the first two Panjabi consonants last with all
other Indic scripts (make that "first three" the two silibants
and the aspirate.)
     4.  If Punjabi "adhik" doubles the following consonant
should sorting treat it as another occurence of that consonant?
     I would not be surprised to learn there are other difficulties
to further complicate things.  Since I'm not an Indologist this
may be a case of "fools rush in ..."
     The above is a purely personal opinion, not the official view
of any government or any agency of any.
     Thanks for any references or insights,
          Regards,
               Jim Agenbroad ( jage at LOC.gov )
 





From reimann at uclink.berkeley.edu  Thu Nov 24 01:36:52 1994
From: reimann at uclink.berkeley.edu (Luis Arnold Gonzalez-Reimann)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 17:36:52 -0800
Subject: Buddha as avatar of Vishnu
Message-ID: <161227017900.23782.9478539471563520926.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


There are several references to Puranas, as well as to some articles on 
the subject, in: Hindu Myths, by Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty, pp. 232-235, 
332-333.  Middlesex, Penguin Classics: 1975.  I hope they are useful.

Luis Gonzalez-Reimann
 





From z900672a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us  Thu Nov 24 11:57:44 1994
From: z900672a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (The Skeptic)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 94 06:57:44 -0500
Subject: May be little off the topic
Message-ID: <161227017902.23782.10630911563959010275.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

#2  INDIAN WOMEN BASK IN GLORY AS RAI WINS MISS WORLD TITLE
  By M.G. Srinath
   New Delhi, Nov 20
     India  was in a state of euphoria Sunday hours after the brandy-eyed
21-year-old Aishwarya Rai won the coveted Miss World title in a contest held
in Sun City in South Africa.
    The widely circulated Hindustan Times newspaper reflected  India's  pride
when it said in a bold headline "World's envy,  India's  pride" as it splashed
the victory of Rai on Saturday on its front page.
    Rai, an architect by profession and a Bombay-based model, won the coveted
crown brushing past 82 contestants from around the world.
    Aishwarya's victory comes seven months after another Indian model had won
the Miss Universe contest to make complete the sweep of the world's top beauty
pagents. The Miss Universe contest was won by Sushmita Sen, an 18-year-old
model at Manila in May this year.
    The year also saw Sheetal Mallar become the second runner-up at the
International Look of the Year competition held in Spain some weeks back.
    While these girls bask in the glory of catwalks and sparkling evening gowns,
another Indian woman did the country proud in August this year when Kiran Bedi
received the prestigious Magsasay Award for public service 1994 in Manila.
    Bedi, Inspector-General of Delhi's Tihar jail, while receiving the Asian
version of the Nobel prizes had said that she planned to start a trust called
India  Vision to carry forward projects in the field of prison reform, drug
abuse prevention, empowerment of women, mental disability and sports promotion.
    While the success of Bedi, Rai and Sen is basically a urban phenomenon,
the lot of the women in the rural areas continues to falter in a male-dominated
society.
    Jayashree Sengupta, an economist, feels that women in  India  need to
change their attitude towards their own sex for a better status in the society.
    In a culture where boys are coddled and indulged, the female child is
usually brought up neglected, submisive and scared of the males in the rural
areas.
    Sengupta says that mothers in the villages withdraw their girls from
school at an early age to help them at home and also keep them under their
surveillance. "The older girl child becomes the mother's helper and baby-
sitter for her younger brothers and sisters".
    In 1990-91, enrolment of children at the primary school level was 21
million for boys and 12.4 million for girls. For high school, it was 14
million for boys and 6.9 million for girls.
    While the male child is regarded as an investment and an asset, the female
child is made to feel as a drag and burden on the family.
    "Two of the worst enemies of women", said a  India  government report in the
International Women's Year in 1975, "have been the traditional female and the
conservative male".
    Things are changing, but slowly. Rural women have begun to fight back and
assert for their rights. It was women protests that led to the closure of
locally made liquor vends in the southern state of Andhra Pradesh two years
back.
    A similar movement is on in the northern state of Haryana, a traditionally
male dominated society. In the southern city of Vishakapatnam in Andhra
Pradesh state, it is women who operate a fish market with great success.
    But probably the triumps of Rai, Sen and Bedi may spur the rural women to
break the traditional shackles in a greater force to change the face and
attitudes in  India.
 


****************************************************************************
 Aditya Mishra                               | The opinions expressed herein
Phone/FAX 305-746-0442 (Please leave message)| are absolutely not immutable
email:  z900672a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us  | and may have changed by the
   (Please excuse for the extra long address)| time you read them due to the
Prodigy: TVDS96A                             | new evidence and/or data.
****************************************************************************                                             


 





From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca  Sat Nov 26 01:46:25 1994
From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 94 17:46:25 -0800
Subject: Temporary absence
Message-ID: <161227017903.23782.13377353047033780888.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

To those who usually correspond with me:

Please note that I shall be away in India from 4 December 1994 to 15
January 1995 mainly to deliver some lectures and participate in a couple of
conferences.

Good wishes.

Ashok Aklujkar, Professor, Department of Asian Studies, University of B.C.,
Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. Tel: O: (604) 822-5185, R: (604) 274-5353.
 Fax O:
822-8937. E-mail: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca 

 





From srice at cruzio.com  Sat Nov 26 05:19:32 1994
From: srice at cruzio.com (Stanley Rice)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 94 21:19:32 -0800
Subject: Sri Ramana Maharshi Jayanti Celebration
Message-ID: <161227017905.23782.17727621332600241628.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

*****************************************************************

             SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI JAYANTI CELEBRATION

            AT THE SOCIETY OF ABIDANCE IN TRUTH (SAT)
          DECEMBER 20, 1994, IN SANTA CRUZ, CALIFORNIA


Sri Ramana Maharshi is the great sage of the holy mountain
Arunachala, in Southern India. In this century He brought forth
the perfect and clear revelation of ADVAITA VEDANTA--THE TEACHING
OF THE NONDUAL TRUTH.

All are warmly invited to attend Sri Ramana's Jayanti. The
celebration will include meditations, chanting, discourses, a
showing of the beautiful video THE SAGE OF ARUNACHALA, and other
activities.

This event is FREE OF CHARGE, although donations are accepted.
PLEASE CALL, WRITE, OR REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE IF YOU WISH TO COME.
We need to know ahead of time, because facilities are limited.

Namaste.  For further information by mail, write:

   THE SOCIETY OF ABIDANCE IN TRUTH (SAT)
   P.O. Box 8080, Santa Cruz, CA 95061    Voice: (408) 425-7287

****************************************************************

You are warmly invited to call, write or visit SAT (sometimes
known as "Ramanashram West"). Master Nome is a Self-Realized
teaching disciple of Sri Ramana.

SAT Internet address: RAMANA at CRUZIO.COM  (or srice at cruzio.com)

> To get IMMEDIATELY a list of free SAT files on nonduality,
  you can "Finger" RAMANA at CRUZIO.COM   (or srice at cruzio.com)

*****************************************************************


-- 
Stan Rice, Autospec Inc, srice at cruzio.com  



 





From kharimot at mail.sas.upenn.edu  Mon Nov 28 06:09:15 1994
From: kharimot at mail.sas.upenn.edu (kharimot at mail.sas.upenn.edu)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 01:09:15 -0500
Subject: Help on using Binhex4.0
Message-ID: <161227017907.23782.1237779984620623329.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dr. Deshpande wrote,

>        I downloaded the first of the Mahabharata files from Washington 
>FTP site.  Then I tried unbinhexing it.  The second step did not work.  
>Could some Binhex Guru tell me how to use the Binhex4.0 program?  Its 
>menus are not terribly obvious to common humans like me.  Thanks.
>        Madhav Deshpande

Though someone may have already answered to this question personaly and 
I am not a Binhex Guru, I recommend to (drag &) drop the ftp-ed files 
(files ending with ".Z") on StuffIt Expnader with Enhancer installed.  
It worked fine on my part.

The files are UNIX 'compress'ed and StuffIt Expander with Enhancer 
'uncompress'es those files.  Please make sure to ftp those files as 
binary.

Or, in case Dr. Deshpande had to first ftp to Washinto from local UNIX 
host and download the files to Mac using BinHex, the procedure is the 
same.  Please just drop the files on StuffIt Expander (with Enhancer 
installed).  That first dehqx-es the files which means there will be 
files ending with ".Z".  I am not sure StuffIt Expander automatically 
'uncompress'es those files in which case files ending with ".Z" should 
be dropped again.

Hope this helps.

# By the way, I would sincerely like to exparess my gratitude to the 
# Dr. Tokunaga's achievement.

-- Kengo Harimoto
(Graduate Student)

 





From asher at maroon.tc.umn.edu  Mon Nov 28 17:07:27 1994
From: asher at maroon.tc.umn.edu (Frederick M Asher)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 11:07:27 -0600
Subject: Help on using Binhex4.0
Message-ID: <161227017911.23782.14259242058032738350.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 appointment.  I'm generally here 8-6.  Rick Asher

On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Madhav Desh  Anyone who answers the phone can 
schedule the appointment. pande wrote:

> 	I downloaded the first of the Mahabharata files from Washington 
> FTP site.  Then I tried unbinhexing it.  The second step did not work.  
> Could some Binhex Guru tell me how to use the Binhex4.0 program?  Its 
> menus are not terribly obvious to common humans like me.  Thanks.
> 	Madhav Deshpande
>  
> 
 





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Nov 28 17:03:26 1994
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 12:03:26 -0500
Subject: The Ramayana and the Mahabharata files
Message-ID: <161227017910.23782.4481920615226529276.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

	Finally I successfully downloaded the Ramayana and Mahabharata 
files in their CSX (zip) format and was able to read them on my Mac with 
diacritics using my Manjushree-CSX font.  I congratulate and thank 
Professor Tokunaga for his enormous contribution to Indology.  I would 
also like to thank Tom Ridgeway for converting the original files to the 
CSX format.  His work has made these files immediately accessible to 
those of us who use CSX compatible fonts.  Converting files from one 
format to another is a major task.  With Tom presumably leaving Seattle, 
I hope someone else will continue to offer this assistance, perhaps we 
can volunteer David Magier.
	Madhav Deshpande
 





From conlon at u.washington.edu  Mon Nov 28 20:27:09 1994
From: conlon at u.washington.edu (Frank Conlon)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 12:27:09 -0800
Subject: H-ASIA: Inspired revisionism-Hist. of India (LONG) (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017913.23782.8002179042531065167.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues:
A fellow-scholar here suggested that it would be appropriate to forward 
this H-ASIA posting to Indology.  I apologize for its length, but I did 
not want to mischaracterize the editorial views of Hinduism Today in my 
posting.

Frank Conlon

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Frank Conlon <conlon at u.washington.edu>
Subject: H-ASIA: Inspired revisionism-Hist. of India (LONG)

                                  H-ASIA
                             November 28, 1994

Religiously inspired revisionism in the history of India (LONG)
*****************************************************************
(This posting is for the information of professional scholars of
South Asia, who may be bemused by the intelligence that history
is irrelevant, but must be corrected.)

>?From Frank Mon Feb 13 23:04:20 1995
From:  Frank F. Conlon, <conlon at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Religiously inspired revisionism in the history of India
Status: RO

History, they say, is a contested subject.  The subjectivity of
interpretations and the argument over "facts" has flavored the
evolution of the discipline over time.  In South Asian history,
scholars have argued extensively over details and broad
interpretations of such topics as the nature of the South Indian
state, the expansion of Islamic rule in medieval India, the
effects of British colonial rule, the roots of the partition,
etc. etc.

In the last few years, e-mail discussion lists directed at South
Asians, particularly those in North America, have featured a
steady increase in postings, primarily by non-historians --
indeed one might observe, by highly educated people who had
little or no education in Indian history -- in which all
conventional scholarship on the history of the subcontinent is
dismissed.  Interestingly this is grounded often in a partial
awareness of the debates over "orientalism" that originated in
the work of Edward Said, yet without the moorings of knowledge of
historical contexts necessary to considered evaluation of
evidence.

Also, several writers have attempted to write revisionist
accounts of India's history with particular emphasis upon a world
view which has been associated with resurgent Hinduism.  It has
been my impression that many of these writings commence with
assaults on European scholarship of the 19th century (scholarship
which has been substantially amended by subsequent generations of
researchers) and then borrow from 20th century historical comment
on the contingency and imperfection of any historical account.

The result has been an "anything goes" revisionism.  Since these
revisionist ideas appear in print, they are readily appropriated
by some who seem to think that if an idea can be printed it is
just as good as another idea.  "If I can say it, it might be
so..." goes the expression.  A number of North American e-
mailists of South Asian descent, including many persons working
in science and technology, have continued to post and repost
these materials.  If a professional historian were to get up some
articles on the fringes of these e-mailists' own scientific
disciplines, suggesting that Pi equals 24 and 2/3  or that the
earth was flat, there would be great amusement, perhaps
aggrevation.

The December issue of the monthly journal Hinduism Today, has
just appeared.  It is available for sale in most parts of the
world, but it may be also accessed via e-mail.  This issue
contains an editorial and a "Time Line" that will be of interest
to professional historians of India.  It appears that at least
one professional historian has associated himself with this
project, but given the unusual qualities of the entire
production, I would not be inclined to state anything as fact.

At any rate, I have included in this posting, the copyrighted
introduction and editorial to the "Time Line", and instructions
how interested historians may e-mail for the detailed contents of
this production.  The ideas put forward in this publication will
be read, and in many instances, believed, by many.  It is NOT my
purpose to encourage a "flame war"--there are other venues for
that.  This posting is for the information of professional
scholars of South Asia, who may be bemused by the intelligence
that history is irrelevant, but must be corrected.


Frank F. Conlon
University of Washington
Co-moderator of H-ASIA
<conlon at u.washington.edu>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Hinduism Today Archive Server <pslvax!bit-bucket at UCSD.EDU>
Subject: dec_94/Hindu_Timeline_Article (complete) ascii

HINDUISM TODAY, DECEMBER 1994

Head: It's About Time!

Subhead: New Finds and Intriguing Theories Conspire with
Scholars To Rewrite India's History-Plus HT's 7-Page Timeline

When you learned Indian history, a startling amount of myth may
have inadvertently been mixed in the masala with fact.  The
"official" history of India and Hinduism was set down by Western
scholars more than a hundred years ago, a history based on the
now-disputed principle that an outside group of "Aryans," not
her indigenous peoples, were responsible for most of India's
civilization.  Subsequent discoveries, research and analysis
have unearthed major flaws in that history.  Still, to this day,
virtually every textbook and encyclopedia in the world contains
the same century-old conjectures.

"Early Indian history is on the brink of a change," says
Professor Shiva G.  Bajpai, co-author of the monumental work A
Historical Atlas of South Asia.  He told Hinduism Today that
"Archaeological explorations taking place in the recent decade
have changed many of the views we used to hold as being very
historical.  Many do not even know what they have excavated so
far."

Revising India's history is practically a cottage industry
today.  Archaeologists and historians are forming strategic
partnerships, even teaming up with astronomers who turn Rig Veda
observations of the stars into firm dates for recorded events.
Two conferences were held already this year-January in Hyderabad
and April in Sringeri.  A third, the World Archaeology Congress,
is scheduled in New Delhi on December 4-11, where the latest,
most significant findings will be revealed.  Author and Vedic
scholar, David Frawley, reports, "The conferences featured S.R.
Rao, Subash Kak, Rajaram and others working in this field.
Nobody was really upholding the old model.  The issue wasn't so
much whether the old model is working, but how the new model is
going to be formed.  It's no longer just Hindus claiming their
faith in what their holy books say.  All the archaeological and
scientific evidence is pretty much in agreement with them."

The "Aryan invasion" of India is taught as fact everywhere, but
many modern researchers don't support it.  Establishment
historians aren't ready to accept any wholesale revision, and
are slow to explore discoveries which necessitate such a
revision.  Nor is Indian history the only one undergoing
rethinking.  Just a few years ago the Egyptian sphinx was
suddenly dated thousands of years earlier by new technology,
turning Egyptian history on its head.

Hinduism Today has been following the dramatic events among
historians, and our staff has assembled a new Timeline of
Hinduism, a chronology that incorporates recent findings and
tempers the anti-Hindu bias undergirding previous histories of
India.  Beginning on page four, we present 600,000 years in 585
entries.

Our seven-page timeline is generous toward Hinduism, listing the
earliest possible dates for events and scriptures.  Bajpai does
not mind, "The Hinduism Today Timeline is extremely important
because it highlights the Hindu heritage.  This is both its
greatest strength and, others might say, its weakness.  No
timeline can be wholly satisfactory for everyone, as is the case
with any encyclopedia."

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Editorial: History as Hoax

By the Editor

This issue of Hinduism Today is like none other.  We set aside
some usual features to publish our seven-page Hindu Timeline, a
rich collection of the major events and people that have shaped
India.  We hope you will keep it, use it as a resource, refer to
it when someone asks a question or when writing an article for
your local paper.  As complete as it is, our Timeline does not
tell the whole story.

What it fails to mention is that history, as it happens, never
happened.  History is a hoax.  "What?" you say, "Who licensed
you to belittle so proud a profession, so indispensible a
discipline as human history?  What do we have of the past except
the cherished chronicle of what, not to mention who, went before
us?" Okay, okay.  History is important, but historians know of
what I speak.  Listen to the preeminent Will Durant who spent a
lifetime studying the record of civilizations: "History is
mostly guessing; the rest is prejudice."

It is certainly formidable to ponder the whole of human history
(said to be somewhere between 500,000 and two million years) and
to assess just how much we really know of the past, how well a
few bone fragments and distilled lines in a book reflect the
truly awesome complexity of billions of human beings interacting
with each other, with other tribes, with their environment and
geography.  To humanize it, consider your own life.  Take all
you did, all you endured and attempted, all you said, learned
and forgot.  What is the bottom line?  "Anjali Patel, 1938-2022.
Beloved wife and mother.  Rest in peace." Less than a dozen
words.  It's easy to see that history is but a frail record of
reality.  Multiply this individual example by the ten billion
souls that have lived in India during the past 10,000 years (an
interesting number a local mathematician helped us find), divide
that by the 14,339 words in our (fairly thorough) history, and
you get one word for every 697,398.7 people who made that
history happen.  Hmmm!  It's getting easier to see why historian
Richard Cobb concluded that "The frontiers between history and
imagination are very little more than Chinese screens, removable
at will."

History may be a mental monument to human achievement and
progress, but it is equally a repository of our prejudices, a
museum of our mistakes.  It keeps feuds alive beyond their time,
it impedes progress more than it impels, and it restrains many
of us from living in the here and now, so consumed are we with
what happened there and then.  History is millstone as much as
milestone.

The bad news, then, is that history is always inaccurate and
often injurious.  The good news is that India and Hinduism live
beyond history.  Other nations know exactly who they are, when
they began, who their first president was.  Their history is
compact, unambiguous.  Not India.  She has too much history to
be pithy, too complex a career to avoid ambiguity.  Nowhere else
do people live in so many centuries at the same time.  Where
else do past and present exist side by side-Sun worship with
atomic research, astrology with space exploration?  Where else
does the old add itself to the new rather than relinquishing its
hold and departing?

This issue's timeline chronicles exciting discoveries about the
Indus Valley/Saraswati River civilization and the present effort
of historians to wrest India's self-understanding away from
Europeans who long ago left behind a false biography of Bharat.
Whereas the past provides others with the all-important basis of
identity and self-importance, India enjoys a leisurely, even
careless, relationship with history.  British historian
Christopher Dawson explains: "Happy is the people that is
without a history, and thrice happy is a people without a
sociology, for as long as we possess a living culture we are
unconscious of it, and it is only when we are in danger of
losing it or when it is already dead that we begin to realize
and study it scientifically."

Hinduism also lies beyond history.  Other faiths, excluding some
tribal and pagan paths, are rooted in events.  They began on
such and such a day, born with the birth of a prophet or the
pronouncements of a founder.  Thus they are defined,
circumscribed, by history.  Not Hinduism.  She has no founder,
no birthday to celebrate.  Like Truth, she is eternal and
unhistorical.  Even if we compel Hinduism to admit of some
immanence in history, she merely smiles and brushes aside the
few thousand years that most of humanity takes as the crucial
narrative.  To the Hindu those few years are a pittance, and
they too perish.  While all known human history lies within a
few hundred millennia, Hinduism speaks of unspeakably vast
epochs, of earthly yugas that last millions of years, of days
and nights of Brahma that span billions, of a universe that
lives and dies and lives again.  Such is India's expansive
reading of history.  Ultimately,  history is contemporaneous
with the present, in the form of karmas by which all actions of
the past live in the now.  That is a living history, much more
precious than any dead one.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 1994, Himalayan Academy, All Rights Reserved. The
information contained in this news report may not be published
for commercial purposes without the prior written authority of
Himalayan Academy.  (The publisher's request is that the material
not be used in magazines or newspapers that are for sale without
their permission.  Redistribution electronically (for free),
photocopying to give to classes or friends, all that is okay.)
This copyright notice may NOT be removed, or the articles edited
or changed without the prior written authority of Himalayan
Academy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
HOW TO OBTAIN THE "TIME LINE":

The December issue of Hinduism Today is "on line".  You may
request articles by file name.   Note that it is suggested you
include your internet mail address in the request message.

Also, be sure to include the issue name, in the format:

     issue/article

And, be sure to capitalize as shown.

HERE IS THE CORRECT MESSAGE TO OBTAIN THE RELEVANT BITS:
Post to:  pslvax!hinduism_today at ucsd.edu

with subject line empty, type the following script exactly:

begin
mail  yourname at your.address.edu (enter your e-mail address)
send  dec_94/Editorial
send  dec_94/Hindu_Timeline_Article
send  dec_94/Hindu_Timeline_Introduction
send  dec_94/Hindu_Timeline_1
send  dec_94/Hindu_Timeline_2
send  dec_94/Hindu_Timeline_3
send  dec_94/Hindu_Timeline_4
send  dec_94/Hindu_Timeline_5
end

Take note:  even the most slight misspelling (such as Dec instead
of dec) will cause the server to respond with "not found".

The mail server address, where requests should be sent, is:
     pslvax!hinduism_today at ucsd.edu
*****************************************************************

 





From pslvax!sadhu at UCSD.EDU  Mon Nov 28 23:09:15 1994
From: pslvax!sadhu at UCSD.EDU (pslvax!sadhu at UCSD.EDU)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 15:09:15 -0800
Subject: H-ASIA: Inspired revisionism-Hist. of India (LONG) (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227017918.23782.13927244378837845434.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

| 
| Frank F. Conlon wrote:
|
| At any rate, I have included in this posting, the copyrighted
| introduction and editorial to the "Time Line", and instructions
| how interested historians may e-mail for the detailed contents of
| this production.  The ideas put forward in this publication will
| be read, and in many instances, believed, by many.  It is NOT my
| purpose to encourage a "flame war"--there are other venues for
| that.  This posting is for the information of professional
| scholars of South Asia, who may be bemused by the intelligence
| that history is irrelevant, but must be corrected.
| 

Gentlemen:

FYI, the editors of Hinduism Today welcome letters by email.   You may
write to :
		hinduism at mcimail.com

In addition to the email server mentioned by Dr. Conlan, you can also
access the current issue of Hinduism Today on WWW at:

   http://err.ethz.ch/~kiwi/Spirit/Veda/HT/Overview.html

The timeline articles are also available by anonymous FTP from the ANU
Coombspapers archive, for which there are several well known links,
including the SAG Gopher at Columbia.

Congenial regards,
Sadhunathan Nadesan
HT Electronic Postmaster

 





From magier at columbia.edu  Mon Nov 28 21:34:57 1994
From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 16:34:57 -0500
Subject: The Ramayana and the Mahabharata files
Message-ID: <161227017916.23782.18305929625715809890.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> Converting files from one 
> format to another is a major task.  With Tom presumably leaving Seattle, 
> I hope someone else will continue to offer this assistance, perhaps we 
> can volunteer David Magier.
> 	Madhav Deshpande

I have been discussing with Tom the possibility of volunteering to
house the archive of texts here at Columbia and keeping them
accessible both as regular ftp files for downloading and through the
South Asia Gopher. *However*, I have not (indeed cannot) volunteer to
make all necessary file format conversions myself because I lack the
technical expertise. I believe Tom has been suggesting to me that
others (e.g. Tom himself?) would supply the original and/or converted
files, and that my role would be simply to oversee and maintain the
archive (but not bear responsibility for developing its content)...

Comments anyone?   Thanks,  David Magier

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
    ____________________________      304 International Affairs
  ///    -- David Magier --    \\\    Columbia University
 |||   Director, AREA STUDIES   |||   New York, N.Y. 10027-7296
 |||  S&SE Asia, Latin America, |||   212-854-8046 / FAX: 212-854-2495
  \\\ Mid-East, Slavic, Africa ///
    ---------------------------       magier at columbia.edu
 





From RLFLUK01 at ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU  Tue Nov 29 21:16:38 1994
From: RLFLUK01 at ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU (Bobbie Fluke)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 16:16:38 -0500
Subject: Help on using Binhex4.0
Message-ID: <161227017923.23782.17903565303307477047.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Adm. Sec'y - Occupational Training & Dev.
Phone: (502) 852-6667       FAX:  (502) 852-4563
Jim, I got help on this from a friend - Deb Anderson, a secretary in
Administration and Higher Ed has Macintosh computers both here and at home,
and her husband is quite good at a lot of "things." I sent her the message,
and her husband opened it at home and converted the file for me last night -
it looks just like a REAL resume! Amazing! Thanks for your help also. And if
anyone else has this problem, contact Deb at DLANDE01.

  BITNET:  RLFLUK01 at ULKYVM
INTERNET:  RLFLUK01 at ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU
 





From mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk  Tue Nov 29 18:06:10 1994
From: mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk (mhcrxlc at dir.mcc.ac.uk)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 18:06:10 +0000
Subject: Help on using Binhex4.0
Message-ID: <161227017920.23782.582566559168513672.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>Dr. Deshpande wrote,
>
>>        I downloaded the first of the Mahabharata files from Washington
>>FTP site.  Then I tried unbinhexing it.  The second step did not work.
>>Could some Binhex Guru tell me how to use the Binhex4.0 program?  Its
>>menus are not terribly obvious to common humans like me.  Thanks.
>>        Madhav Deshpande

In the File Menu select Download. Then navigate to select the file you want
to convert. It can be quite slow with a large file.

Lance Cousins

MANCHESTER, UK
Telephone (UK): 061 434 3646  (International) +44 61 434 3646
Fax (UK):       061 275 3613  (International) +44 61 275 3613


 





From hsa01dk at goldsmiths.ac.uk  Tue Nov 29 19:10:52 1994
From: hsa01dk at goldsmiths.ac.uk (Damien Keown)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 19:10:52 +0000
Subject: JBE Publication News
Message-ID: <161227017921.23782.18404266222962948698.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>



Journal of Buddhist Ethics Publication News
 
The Journal of Buddhist Ethics is pleased to announce the publication of the
following:
 
- - - - - - - - - -
 
Research Article:
 
CAUSATION AND //TELOS//: THE PROBLEM OF BUDDHIST ENVIRONMENTAL ETHICS
 
Author: Ian Harris
Publication Date: November 27th, 1994
 
ABSTRACT
 
     Environmentalist concerns have moved centre stage in most major
religious traditions of late and Buddhism is no exception to this
rule. This paper shows that the canonical writings of Indic Buddhism
possess elements that may harmonise with a //de facto// ecological
consciousness. However, their basic attitude towards the causal
process drastically reduces the possibility of developing an
authentically Buddhist environmental ethic. The classical treatment of
causation fails to resolve successfully the tension between symmetry
and asymmetry of relations and this has tended to mean that attempts
to inject a //telos//, or sense of purpose, into the world are likely
to founder. The agenda of eco-Buddhism is examined in the light of this
fact and found wanting.
 
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
 
Ian Harris teaches in the Department of Religious Studies
and Social Ethics, University College of St. Martin,
Lancaster LA1 3JD, England
 
- - - - - - - - - -
 
RETRIEVAL INSTRUCTIONS
 
Material published by the Journal of Buddhist Ethics may be read and retrieved
via the World Wide Web, Gopher, or anonymous FTP.
 
1) WORLD WIDE WEB ACCESS
A hypertext version is available via the following URL's:
 
http://www.cac.psu.edu/jbe/jbe.html
http://www.gold.ac.uk/jbe
 
2) GOPHER ACCESS
An ASCII text version is available from
 
Penn State University's Gopher:
Type:           1
Host:           ftp.cac.psu.edu
Port:           70
Selector:       1/jbe
 
or Goldsmiths' Gopher:
Type:           1
Host:           scorpio.gold.ac.uk
Port:           70
Selector:       1/jbe
 
or Coombsquest  Gopher:
 
Type:           1
Host:           cis.anu.edu.au
Port:           70
Selector:      ftp:coombs.anu.edu.au@/coombspapers/otherarchives/
electronic-buddhist-archives/buddhism-general/e-journals/jbe/
 
(please note  misleading wrap-around in the path listed above)
 
3) ANONYMOUS FTP ACCESS:
An ASCII text version is available from
 
*USA  site:
ftp.cac.psu.edu in
        the directory /pub/jbe or
 
*UK  site:
scorpio.gold.ac.uk
        in the directory /pub/jbe
 
*AUSTRALIA site:
coombs.anu.edu.au
        in the directory
/coombspapers/otherarchives/electronic-buddhist-archives/buddhism-general/
e-journals/jbe
 
(please note misleading wrap-around in the path listed above)
 
 
If you have difficulty in obtaining any item please contact the Journal's
Technical Editor Dr. Wayne R.Husted (jbe-ed at psu.edu).

 





From vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu  Wed Nov 30 13:12:43 1994
From: vidynath at math.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 94 08:12:43 -0500
Subject: Various questions
Message-ID: <161227017925.23782.14360867393897727069.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


I have a few simple questions that I hope can be someone in this
mailing list.

(1) What is the difference in meaning between the subjunctive of the
aorist and the ordinary subjunctive? The translations and grammar
handbooks seem to imply that there is none.

(2) What is the general view on the theories of Norman Brown and
F. B. J. Kuiper on the Indra-V.rtra myth?

(3) Has there been any work on similar themes found in .rgveda and
the ``Kafiri'' mythology? I know of two, one analyzed to some extent
by Buddruss (in ``Cultures of the Hindu Kush'', ed. Jettmar and Edelberg,
pp.~31--36) similar to the Indra-V.rtra fight. One of the Kafiri
versions refers to a knife found in a horse's ear. The faint resemblence
to Dadhya~nc is not mentioned by Buddruss.

The other parallel is the story of Munjem Malik that has several
similarities to RV 4.18. (For the Kafiri version, see Jettmar,
``Religions of the Hindu Kush'', pp.~54--57.)

Jettmar, in his book quoted above, seems to put emphasis only on
etymology of names and denies that there are many similarities between
Vedic and Kafiri mythology. However, he notes thematic similarities
with Kesar Saga from Tibet in both cases. I am not sure if he was
familiar enough with Vedic mythology to have noticed any other
similarities. For example, for the myth of freeing of the sun and the
moon studied by Buddruss, Jettmar only refers to the Tripura myth
(the Kafiri god who destroys the fort in which sun and moon are
imprisoned is named Monde < Mahandeva). He does not seem to have been
familiar with the writings of Kuiper. On the other hand, Kafiri texts
collected are not accessible to me, except for what is given in
Jettmar's book.

(4) How widespread is the myth of freeing of sun and moon? Jaan Puhvel's
book on comparative mythology says that the Slavs had a temple to
a hammer which was used to free the sun and the moon. But I am unable
to refer to the text that Puhvel refers to for this. Of course the
variant of a stanza from Volupsa that Snorri quotes while discussing
the building of Asgard says ``... who lost the sun and the moon ...''.
But these are slender leads.

(5) Can anybody point me to reviews, by Vedists, of Brian K. Smith's
recent book ``Classifying the universe''. It struck me that there are
few references there to Aitreya brahma.na/aara.nyaka, especially to
those which run counter to Smith's statements (for example Smith ignores
the line in AB that Agni is churned at the arrival of Soma just like
they carve a bull/barren cow at the arrival of a human king).

Thanks in advance for your help.
-Nath