From EVERSON at IRLEARN.UCD.IE Fri Oct 1 14:00:54 1993 From: EVERSON at IRLEARN.UCD.IE (Michael Everson) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 93 14:00:54 +0000 Subject: Which ISCII actual use? Message-ID: <161227016176.23782.3116079239575053298.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Lloyd Anderson of Ecological Linguistics asked me to forward this to the INDOLOGY list. Date: 01 Oct 93 01:21 GMT From: ECOLING at AppleLink.Apple.COM (Ecological Linguistics,Anderson,PRT) Ecological Linguistics will release later this fall 8-bit script systems for most of the Indic scripts on Macintosh, based either on the ISCII-88 or the ISCII-91 standard. We would like to use the code page which will yield greatest compatibility with existing implementations, whether on DOS or Mactintosh. The ISCII-88 standard was used in the 16-bit Unicode and ISO10646, while the ISCII-91 standard is more recent official India. What is actual de facto dominant in India? Anyone replying, please specify the domains of different dominance. Thanks for any help. Lloyd Anderson ===== Michael Everson School of Architecture, UCD; Richview, Clonskeagh; Dublin 14; E/ire Phone: +353 1 706-2745 Fax: +353 1 283-8908 Home: +353 1 478-2597 From EVERSON at IRLEARN.UCD.IE Fri Oct 1 14:03:36 1993 From: EVERSON at IRLEARN.UCD.IE (Michael Everson) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 93 14:03:36 +0000 Subject: Matras combining char's? Message-ID: <161227016178.23782.5968277408822996381.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Lloyd Anderson of Ecological Linguistics asked me to forward this to the INDOLOGY list. Date: 01 Oct 93 01:21 GMT From: ECOLING at AppleLink.Apple.COM (Ecological Linguistics,Anderson,PRT) A note in Unicode 1.1 suggests the inclusion of Indic matras as "combining characters" should be considered a "defect" in 10646 (and therefore should be changed, presumably). This note to the Indology list is to give my best understanding of the situation, since I have not been able to get a technical justification for the position referred to. The original motivations for "combining characters" included at least that they should not be isolated from their base characters at line breaks. I think, though am not absolutely certain, that some Unicoders want a class of characters which have the combination of properties [combining; non-spacing; overlapping only to the left (in left-to-right scripts) or to the right (in right-to-left scripts)] and perhaps some other properties as well. As contrasted with the prototypical Latin combining marks, Indic matras have two differences: (a) they are not all non-spacing, and (b) in surface rendering, they sometimes connect with something later in the text stream, rather than only with something earlier in the text stream. These two differences are however not matters of "combiningness", they are separate features. The rule that "combining" characters may not be separated from their "base" characters still holds. So new character attributes can be added, "zero-width" and "combines-to-the-right", but the old feature "combining" should not be deleted. Possibly it should be reinterpreted as "combines to the left" unless an additional feature handles the left vs. right linking, but since the "combines to the right" affects primarily renderings among the standard Indic vowel matras, this may not matter. The matra is linked to the same base letter (conjunct) in either case, before or after matra-reordering to the rendering form. The Unicode 1.1 treatment of the diacritics over two letters, such as long and short marks over double "oo" for phonetic dictionary entries for English, places the code for the diacritic between the codes for the two base letters. The approach considers such diacritics to be "combining to the left", but "overlapping" to the right, whereas they are really equally combining in both directions, so "combines to the left" and "combines to the right" would both be attributes of these double-base diacritics. Does anyone have further insight into what might make Indic matras different or similar in any relevant attributes? The chief cases I can locate for combining-tothe-right, by the way, are Devanagari repha (itself a result of ligaturing "r" with virama non-finally), and Burmese "eng" which sits on top of the consonant which logically follows the "eng" (itself a result of ligaturing "ng" with a marker for conjuncting. Lloyd Anderson, Ecological Linguistics. ========== Michael Everson School of Architecture, UCD; Richview, Clonskeagh; Dublin 14; E/ire Phone: +353 1 706-2745 Fax: +353 1 283-8908 Home: +353 1 478-2597 From RQ021RE at TCUAMUS.EARN Fri Oct 1 19:38:55 1993 From: RQ021RE at TCUAMUS.EARN (RQ021RE) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 93 14:38:55 -0500 Subject: madhusudana sarasvati Message-ID: <161227016179.23782.12335257649898282184.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Is anyone familiar with any translation(s) of Madhusudana Sarasvati's _Advaitasiddhi_? Thanks in advance. Andy Fort rq021re at tcuamus From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Sat Oct 2 18:45:37 1993 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 93 19:45:37 +0100 Subject: madhusudana sarasvati Message-ID: <161227016181.23782.14161245127074566645.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Oct 1, 8:44pm, you wrote: > Is anyone familiar with any translation(s) of Madhusudana > Sarasvati's _Advaitasiddhi_? Thanks in advance. Sanjukta Gupta published a study of Madhusudana S.'s philosopical ideas some years ago, which might have included translated passages at least. (I think it was her first book.) I think it was published in India, probably Calcutta, but I don't have details and I can't find it in the LC catalogue. Dominik From jhelling at cs.ruu.nl Mon Oct 4 09:41:58 1993 From: jhelling at cs.ruu.nl (Jeroen Hellingman) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 93 10:41:58 +0100 Subject: Which ISCII actual use? Message-ID: <161227016182.23782.17650587466097847131.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > > Lloyd Anderson of Ecological Linguistics asked me to forward this > to the INDOLOGY list. > > Date: 01 Oct 93 01:21 GMT > From: ECOLING at AppleLink.Apple.COM (Ecological Linguistics,Anderson,PRT) > > Ecological Linguistics will release later this fall 8-bit script > systems for most of the Indic scripts on Macintosh, based either on the > ISCII-88 or the ISCII-91 standard. We would like to use the code page > which will yield greatest compatibility with existing implementations, > whether on DOS or Mactintosh. The ISCII-88 standard was used in the > 16-bit Unicode and ISO10646, while the ISCII-91 standard is more recent > official India. What is actual de facto dominant in India? Anyone > replying, please specify the domains of different dominance. > > Thanks for any help. > > Lloyd Anderson > ===== > > I believe GIST is now using ISCII-91 in the products it is shipping. Over here I have a copy of the official ISCII-91 document. I have enquired about their latest products a few weeks ago, but that is still in the snail mail system. During my trip to India, this summer, they were not able to tell me at the dealer in New Delhi ('the specialist was not there') I am very much interested in the products coming up for the mac. Jeroen -- Jeroen Hellingman E-mail: 't Zand 2 Phone: +31-3473-73935 (home) 4133 TB Vianen (18.00--21.00 GMT) The Netherlands Answer in English, German, or Dutch. From pbilmo at deakin.edu.au Mon Oct 4 10:00:09 1993 From: pbilmo at deakin.edu.au (purushottama bilimoria) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 93 20:00:09 +1000 Subject: IXth Sanskrit Conference Message-ID: <161227016184.23782.2996720768803258831.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Members might like to note that the correct dates for the IXth World Sanskrit Conference are 9th - 15th January 1994, not 10-16 as previously announced. (Four years ago our astrologers had not quite divined the constellation of the days and dates, and we missed by one numeral for the days which remain the same; anyway, 9 and 15 are not inauspicious numbers.) A THIRD circular has been sent out to those who have pre- registered with the Secretariat. If you have not received this circular and should wish to see a copy please let me know. Late enrolments may be accepted if we can work it in fast. Purushottama Bilimoria (Melbourne, Australia) Original-Received: from by midway.uchicago.edu Mon, 4 Oct 93 17:41:53 CDT PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 17:41:53 CDT Message-Id: <9310042241.AB28346 at midway.uchicago.edu> To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk From: Sheldon Pollock X-Sender: tasi at midway.uchicago.edu Subject: A. K. Ramanujan Memorial Service A service in remembrance of A.K. Ramanujan, 1929-1993, the William H. Colvin Professor, Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations, Committee on Social Thought, and Department of Linguistics, The University of Chicago, will be held at 4 p.m. Thursday, November 4, 1993 at Rockefeller Memorial Chapel, 5850 South Woodlawn Avenue, Chicago, Illinois. The service will be followed by a reception at the Quadrangle Club, University and 57th Streets. >?From THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV 06 1993 Oct GMT 10:48:10 Date: 06 Oct 1993 10:48:10 GMT From: ALLEN W THRASHER Subject: KERN INSTITUTE ADDRESS Does anyone know the email address of anyone at the Kern Institute, preferably the librarian? Allen Thrasher thrasher at mail.loc.gov From samuels at ucsu.Colorado.EDU Wed Oct 6 18:57:17 1993 From: samuels at ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SAMUELS JEFFREY) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 93 12:57:17 -0600 Subject: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic Message-ID: <161227016186.23782.13406632739703211250.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In the April, 1993 newsletter of Motilal Banarsidass, it states that Rick Briggs (who works for NASA) has argued that Panini's grammar is based on Boolean logic. I was wondering if anyone was aware where he might have advanced his thesis or if there are any other sources where this same thesis is discussed. Thanks in advance. Jeff Samuels (samuels at ucsu.colorado.edu) From rajs at lugano.esd.sgi.com Wed Oct 6 20:15:40 1993 From: rajs at lugano.esd.sgi.com (rajs at lugano.esd.sgi.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 93 13:15:40 -0700 Subject: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic Message-ID: <161227016190.23782.7227070188159326248.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Oct 6, 9:02pm, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Subject: Re: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic > On Oct 6, 8:01pm, you wrote: > > > In the April, 1993 newsletter of Motilal Banarsidass, it > > states that Rick Briggs (who works for NASA) has argued that Panini's > > grammar is based on Boolean logic. > > Tell Briggs that Boole (1815-1864) lived after Panini (c. 4th-5th cent. BC). Ummm, yes, but I'm sure the author implied the reference to the body of knowledge before it became known as Boolean logic; would you not agree that the techniques used to construct the Egyptian pyramids were based on Newtonian mechanics? > > Dominik > > > > >-- End of excerpt from Dominik Wujastyk From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Wed Oct 6 19:57:11 1993 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 93 20:57:11 +0100 Subject: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic Message-ID: <161227016188.23782.1534798996992857373.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Oct 6, 8:01pm, you wrote: > In the April, 1993 newsletter of Motilal Banarsidass, it > states that Rick Briggs (who works for NASA) has argued that Panini's > grammar is based on Boolean logic. Tell Briggs that Boole (1815-1864) lived after Panini (c. 4th-5th cent. BC). Dominik From razdan at ntd.comsat.com Thu Oct 7 10:33:25 1993 From: razdan at ntd.comsat.com (Rajender Razdan) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 93 06:33:25 -0400 Subject: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic Message-ID: <161227016193.23782.9420292530317194736.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Wed, 6 Oct 1993, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > On Oct 6, 8:01pm, you wrote: > > > In the April, 1993 newsletter of Motilal Banarsidass, it > > states that Rick Briggs (who works for NASA) has argued that Panini's > > grammar is based on Boolean logic. > > Tell Briggs that Boole (1815-1864) lived after Panini (c. 4th-5th cent. BC). > > Dominik > > > Or better still, tell Briggs that Boole used Paninian logic :-) From D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Thu Oct 7 10:51:43 1993 From: D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 93 10:51:43 +0000 Subject: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic Message-ID: <161227016191.23782.9795386854614289464.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In message Wed, 06 Oct 93 21:25:25 BST, rajs at lugano.esd.sgi.com (Raj Sehgal) writes: > On Oct 6, 9:02pm, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >>... Tell Briggs that Boole (1815-1864) lived after Panini (c. 4th-5th >> cent. BC). > > Ummm, yes, but I'm sure the author implied the reference to the body of > knowledge before it became known as Boolean logic; would you not agree > that the techniques used to construct the Egyptian pyramids were based on > Newtonian mechanics? Obviously I know what you mean, and what Briggs meant. I wondered if anyone would take my statement as anything but a dry joke. But similarly, given the way you state the "Newtonian Pyramid" idea I would certainly disagree. This is sloppy use of language, pointing to sloppy thinking. It may not matter much in the larger scheme of things, since we can all guess what is meant. But I am coming across a rapidly-increasing volume of "scientific fundamentalist" literature from India in which all sorts of crackpot claims are made for the existence of advanced scientific achievements in Vedic times. In this climate of thought I think we must all take special responsibility for being clear about matters concerning scientific priority, and history generally. Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Phone (and voice messages): +44 71 611 8467 From prabhu at rex.cs.tulane.edu Thu Oct 7 16:13:11 1993 From: prabhu at rex.cs.tulane.edu (Devaraya Prabhu) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 93 11:13:11 -0500 Subject: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic Message-ID: <161227016198.23782.7698402371846648393.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > > In the April, 1993 newsletter of Motilal Banarsidass, it > states that Rick Briggs (who works for NASA) has argued that Panini's > grammar is based on Boolean logic. I was wondering if anyone was > aware where he might have advanced his thesis or if there are any > other sources where this same thesis is discussed. Thanks in > advance. I'm not sure that I even understand what exactly is meant by the claim "Panini's grammar is based on Boolean logic"!! However, the following might shed some light on issue: Backus-Naur Form (BNF) is the most commonly adopted notation for describing the grammars of computer languages (such as Pascal, C..) According Ingerman(*), this notation is similar to the one employed by Panini in describing the rules of Sanskrit grammar. No, I have not read the source. I am just quoting from the foot-note of a text book.. (*) Ingerman, P.Z. [1967] "Panini-Backus form suggested", Communications of the ACM, 10:3, 137. Best Rgds - dev prabhu --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Devaraya Prabhu prabhu at cs.tulane.edu Dept of Comp Science Tulane University New Orleans =========================================================================== From JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU Thu Oct 7 11:32:52 1993 From: JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU (JSHARMA) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 93 11:32:52 +0000 Subject: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic Message-ID: <161227016196.23782.17583074721113115547.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > Date sent: Thu, 07 Oct 93 10:52:54 BST > Send reply to: indology at liverpool.ac.uk > From: Dominik Wujastyk > To: Members of the list > Subject: Re: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic > Obviously I know what you mean, and what Briggs meant. I wondered if > anyone would take my statement as anything but a dry joke. The only thing that is obvious is what you wrote ... > But similarly, given the way you state the "Newtonian Pyramid" idea I would > certainly disagree. This is sloppy use of language, pointing to sloppy > thinking. Not any more sloppier than assuming Paninian grammer cannot be based on Boolean logic, without clearly stating why other than vague references to a percieved "climate". Not scholarly or scientific at all ... > It may not matter much in the larger scheme of things, since we > can all guess what is meant. But I am coming across a rapidly-increasing > volume of "scientific fundamentalist" literature from India in which all > sorts of crackpot claims are made for the existence of advanced scientific > achievements in Vedic times. > In this climate of thought I think we must > all take special responsibility for being clear about matters > concerning scientific priority, and history generally. What is absolute in science is method, a match between hypothesis and evidence; Scientific priority is value based and hence subjective. Therefore these statements are quite ad hominem, just as much as the claims they purport to debunk ! J.B. Sharma Gainesville College From madhav.deshpande at um.cc.umich.edu Thu Oct 7 16:39:44 1993 From: madhav.deshpande at um.cc.umich.edu (madhav.deshpande at um.cc.umich.edu) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 93 12:39:44 -0400 Subject: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic Message-ID: <161227016200.23782.7219089460414241051.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have seen an old article by Rick Briggs. Its title is "Knowledge Representation in Sanskrit and Artificial Intelligence". This was published in the Spring 1985 issue of The AI Magazine, pp. 32-39. Additionally, I have a typescript of his old paper titled "Shastric Sanskrit as a Machine Translation Language." I would like to know about his more recent work if anyone has seen it. Madhav Deshpande, Univ of Michigan From Johannes.Bronkhorst at orient.unil.ch Thu Oct 7 12:27:57 1993 From: Johannes.Bronkhorst at orient.unil.ch (Johannes.Bronkhorst at orient.unil.ch) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 93 13:27:57 +0100 Subject: Job announcement Message-ID: <161227016195.23782.1152235296859903358.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Extract from a recent advertisement: LA FACULTE DE THEOLOGIE DE L'UNIVERSITE DE LAUSANNE ouvre une inscription pour un poste de PROFESSEUR ORDINAIRE DE SCIENCE DES RELIGIONS ..... Entree en fonction: 1er septembre 1995 Pour des raisons de coordination inter-universitaire, le domaine de specialisation du titulaire ne devrait pas etre l'Islam. ..... Les dossiers de candidatures doivent parvenir avant le 15 decembre 1993 au Doyen de la Faculte de theologie de l'Universite de Lausanne, BFSH 2, CH-1015 LAUSANNE. Un document plus complet quant a la description de la chaire et au cahier des charges peut etre obtenu aupres de la Faculte. Le Doyen: Bernard REYMOND From D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Fri Oct 8 13:06:18 1993 From: D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 93 13:06:18 +0000 Subject: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic (+Ingerman's article) Message-ID: <161227016202.23782.14535946149482507910.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In message Thu, 07 Oct 93 17:17:38 BST, Devaraya Prabhu writes: > Backus-Naur Form (BNF) is the most commonly adopted notation for > describing the grammars of computer languages (such as Pascal, C..) > According Ingerman(*), this notation is similar to the one employed > by Panini in describing the rules of Sanskrit grammar. No, I have > not read the source. I am just quoting from the foot-note of a text > book.. > (*) Ingerman, P.Z. [1967] "Panini-Backus form suggested", > Communications of the ACM, 10:3, 137. > I have studied Panini's grammar and I am familiar with BNF notation. Panini's notational scheme is not similar to BNF in any meaningful way. Indeed it is not known for sure that Panini even had a notational scheme in the written sense: i.e., I believe that the current thinking in the debate about the date at which writing began to be used for scholarly purposes in India would exclude Panini. So we should talk rather of Panini's "encoding" or some such term, free of reference to writing. This doesn't alter the argument about whether features of the Asthadhyayi are similar to BNF or not. The main point is that Panini's system of codes, abbreviations, and redefined case endings is vastly more subtle and sophisticated than BNF, and is aimed at doing a different job. BNF is really just a very simple way of writing down the logical relationships between items in a program; a linear version of Venn diagrams, almost. It is purely descriptive, where as Panini's rules are operative. To put it differently, BNF notation is useful for *describing* grammars; the Astadhyayi *is* a grammar. The characterization of Ingerman's article you cite above makes it sound as though Ingerman thought Panini was describing a grammar of Sanskrit. That's not the case: Panini was describing Sanskrit. BNF rules are more like meta-rules wrt grammar. Really, all this talk of BNF and Boolean logic amounts to no more than saying Panini was logical, systematic, and had a metalanguage. This is very impressive, of course, but it isn't news, and wasn't even news in 1967. I append Ingerman's 1967 article. [I don't know if you read CACM. It's fun going back this far in a major computing journal: these 1960s issues of CACM still think that a good way of promoting a new piece of computer equipment is to have a photograph with a pretty girl touching it, or leaning over it, or appearing to work it. And in the following year (1968: 147f.) there is Dijkstra's famous letter to the editor: "Go To Statement Considered Harmful". The echos of the heated debate started by this letter are still heard today, especially with Knuth cocking a snook at Dijkstra by including goto mechanisms in his Literate Programming project, WEB.] Dominik ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Communications of the ACM, vol 10/ No. 3/ March 1967, pp. 137-8. I have typed this fast, without checking. Also, the original had correct diacritics in all Sanskrit words, which I have omitted. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Panini-Backus From" Suggested Editor: Knuth, in a recent Letter to the Eeiyor of CACM [1], makes the point that the metasyntactic notation used in, e.g., the ALGOL 60 report [2] should be renamed. In particular, he observes the well-acceded fact that the so-called Backus Normal Form is, indeed, not a normal form in any sense. The purpose of this letter is to observe that Backus was not the first to use the form with which his name has become associated, although he did, indeed, discover it independently. Dr. Alexander Wilhelmy has called to my attention [3] a work by Panini [4]. Panini was a scholar who flourished between 400 B.C. and 200 B.C.; perhaps his most significant work was the compilation of a grammar of Sanskrit. In order to describe the (rather complicated) rules of gra1mar, he invented a notation which is equivalent in its power to that of Backus, and has many similar properties: given the use to which the notation was put, it is possible to identify structures equivalent to the Backus "|" and to the sue of the meta-brackets "<" and ">" enclosing suggestive names. Panini avoided the necessity for the character "::=" by writing the meta-result on the right rather than the left (see, e.g., [5] and [6] for a similar notation). Since it is traditional in professional circles to give credit where credit is due, and since there is clear evidence that Panini was the earlier independent inventor of the notation, may I suggest the name "Panini-Backus From" as being a more desirable one? Not only does it give due credit, but it also avoids the misues of the word "Normal." REFERENCES 1. Knuth, Donald E. Backus normal form vs. Backus Naur form. Comm. ACM 7, 12 (Dec. 1964), 735-736. 2. Naur, P. [Ed.]. Revised report on the algorithmic language ALGOL 60. Comm. ACM 6, 1 (Jan. 1963), 1-17. 3. Wilhelmy, A. Private communication dated 5 November 1966. 4. Kavyatirtha, Narayana Rama Acarya (Ed.) Paninimunipranitah astadhyayisutrapathah vartikapathasamalankrtah. Bombay, India, 1954 (See also [7], supplied by Dr. Donald Knuth.) [Kavya, N. R. A. (Ed.) Panini--Reading of Rules in Eight Chapters, Embellished by His Pupils]. 5. Irons, E. T. Maintenance manual for PSYCO--part one. Institute for Defense Analysiss, Princeton, N. J. 6. Ingerman, P. Z. A Syntax-Oriented Translator. Academic Press, New York, 1966. 7. Panini. The Ashtadhyayi. Edited and translated into English by Srisa Chandra Vasu, Delhi, India, 1962. Peter Zilahy Ingerman Manager, LAnguage Systems Standards & Research Radio Corporation of America Cherry Hill, N. J. 08034 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Dominik Wujastyk Phone (and voice messages): +44 71 611 8467 >?From mehta at kc235-2.mgmt.purdue.edu 8 1993 Oct U 08:25:00 Date: 8 Oct 1993 08:25:00 U From: "Mehta, Shailendra" Subject: RE: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic (+Ingerman's article) I am grateful to Dominik for posting a copy of Ingerman's letter. I was going to go down and copy it myself but he saved me (and many others I am sure) a bit of trouble. I have seen this article (letter really) referred to in many scholarly publications, and it was a surprise to note how modest its scope really is. Surely Panini deserves a better formal analysis. I am neither a grammarian nor a logician by training, though I have dabbled a little, here and there, so I am not sure that I am competent enough to make the subsequent statements. But I hope I am provocative with being offensive. I am sure there is a great need to create mirror of Panini in the modern terminology of logic, in order that his contributions be properly appreciated outside the small band of grammarians. Surely his appeal to logicians and computer scientists would be greatly enhanced if he could be fully explained in their own language. Once this is done, he ought to take his place in the history of world thought as one of the Titans. Panini was without doubt, as Saussure among others pointed out, without peer as a linguist in the long history of the subject. To those who do not mind such categorical statements, he was the greaterst linguist of all time. But to merely say that is to damn him with faint praise. Surely he was much more. In any case, it seems to me that Panini's grammar must be the most concentrated form of thought in existence. How much he manages to say in the compass of 40-50 pages must be without parallel. In many ways, if not most, he surpasses Euclid. Further, the shorthand that he uses with the Siva sutras right in the beginning, ought *not* to be possible by the simple laws of combinatorics. I mean, what is the probability that a naturally evolved language can have such a regular coding scheme ? (Has anyone figured the relevant probabilities out ?) One way or another, these issues are rather important, and surely deserve greater attention than that which Ingerman was able to provide, but the best that I, in my limited exposure, have seen so far, is a four volume rendering BY a logician. What Panini needs is a good four volume rendering IN logic. Shailendra Raj Mehta mehta at mgmt.purdue.edu From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Mon Oct 11 10:40:07 1993 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 11:40:07 +0100 Subject: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic Message-ID: <161227016204.23782.1562770113628379924.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >On Oct 6, 8:01pm, you wrote: > >> In the April, 1993 newsletter of Motilal Banarsidass, it >> states that Rick Briggs (who works for NASA) has argued that Panini's >> grammar is based on Boolean logic. > >Tell Briggs that Boole (1815-1864) lived after Panini (c. 4th-5th cent. BC). > >Dominik > > I don't know if I am the right guy to get involved in this discussion, but Boolean logic was discovered by Boole, not invented by him. In other words, someone just may have beat him to it - e.g. Panini, just like integral mathematics were discovered independently by both Leibnitz and Newton. There is therefore no reason why Panini's logic should not have a "boolean" character. But if this is *really* the case, I don't know. That discussion I leave to others. Lars Martin Lars Martin Fosse Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it Mon Oct 11 10:40:37 1993 From: giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it (carlo della casa) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 11:40:37 +0100 Subject: Nidhipradipa Message-ID: <161227016206.23782.5244265402677800445.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone have news of work being done on the Nidhipradipa which, according to the Novissimus Catalogus Catalogorum, seems to be a condensation of the Ni- dhipradipika, part of the Kakshaputa(or ti)/Kacchaputa/Kaksyaputa/-tantra? One of my students is attempting an Italian translation, but our bibliography here is very very scarce. Alessandro Passi giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it From D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Tue Oct 12 10:57:18 1993 From: D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 10:57:18 +0000 Subject: Nidhipradipa Message-ID: <161227016208.23782.8411402272484951790.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In message Mon, 11 Oct 93 11:57:01 BST, carlo della casa writes: > Does anyone have news of work being done on the Nidhipradipa which, > according to the Novissimus Catalogus Catalogorum, seems to be a > condensation of the Ni- dhipradipika, part of the Kakshaputa(or > ti)/Kacchaputa/Kaksyaputa/-tantra? The manuscripts of the Kaksaputa by Nagarjuna Siddha that I have examined have a chapter (pa.tala) called Nidhigrahana (chapter 16 of 20), devoted to finding treasure. The Wellcome Institute has the following MSS of the Kaksaputa: alpha 899 (pa.talas 1--10, part of 11) alpha 900 (1-11, 11a, 16--20) beta 363 (1--20) delta 8 (1-20) There is a printed edition, 3rd edition Calcutta 1915, ed. by Asubodha Vidyabhusana Bhattacarya and Nityabodha Vidyaratna Bhattacarya. Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Phone (and voice messages): +44 71 611 8467 From dran at cs.albany.edu Tue Oct 12 15:02:47 1993 From: dran at cs.albany.edu (dran at cs.albany.edu) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 11:02:47 -0400 Subject: Susan Bayly Message-ID: <161227016210.23782.3224797118150286376.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Is Susan Bayly (of Cambridge U.) reachable by e-mail? Paliath Narendran From Murali.Srinivasan at Eng.Sun.COM Tue Oct 12 18:16:11 1993 From: Murali.Srinivasan at Eng.Sun.COM (Murali.Srinivasan at Eng.Sun.COM) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 11:16:11 -0700 Subject: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic (+Ingerman's article) Message-ID: <161227016213.23782.5261386599699707006.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > From indology-request at liverpool.ac.uk Fri Oct 8 06:47 PDT 1993 > Comment: Indology mailing list > Date: Fri, 08 Oct 93 14:38:06 BST > Originator: indology at liverpool.ac.uk > X-Listprocessor-Version: 5.5 -- UNIX ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas > From: "Mehta, Shailendra" > To: Members of the list > Subject: RE: Panini's grammar and Boolean logic (+Ingerman's article) > > > I am grateful to Dominik for posting a copy of Ingerman's letter. I was going > to go down and copy it myself but he saved me (and many others I am sure) a bit > of trouble. I have seen this article (letter really) referred to in many > scholarly publications, and it was a surprise to note how modest its scope > really is. Surely Panini deserves a better formal analysis. > > Shailendra Raj Mehta, I missed Dominik's posting of the paper. Could you please email me a copy? Thanks, ---- Regards, Murali V. Srinivasan, SunSoft Inc. 2550, Garcia Ave, M/S MTV21-228, Mountain View, CA 94043-1100. (415) 336-2906 vsm at Eng.Sun.Com OR murali.srinivasan at sun.com From EVERSON at IRLEARN.UCD.IE Tue Oct 12 16:04:37 1993 From: EVERSON at IRLEARN.UCD.IE (Michael Everson) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 16:04:37 +0000 Subject: List of Language Lists, Version 1.3 Message-ID: <161227016211.23782.10915228195495532728.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Computer Bulletin Boards for Individual Languages, or, The List of Language Lists Prepared by Bernard Comrie & Michael Everson Version 1.3 (12 October 1993) This file lists bulletin boards devoted primarily to the linguistic study of individual languages and groups of languages (though a couple of others, in particular lists for language learners, have been included as well). It would be great if other correspondents to LINGUIST will be encouraged to maintain corresponding lists for branches of linguistics, particular approaches to linguistics, language teaching, etc. The usual way of subscribing to a list is to send the following message to the listserver (not to the address for enquiries): SUBSCRIBE In the listing below, the name of the list is given in capital letters inside parentheses. When you subscribe, you will receive instructions on how to contribute to the list, and on how to remove your name from the subscription list (usually: SIGNOFF (UNSUBSCRIBE works too)). A list of mailing lists available on Internet is available by anonymous ftp from ftp.nisc.sri.com (192.33.33.32) in the file /netinfo/ interest-groups. A directory of scholarly electronic conferences is maintained by Diane K. 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(TOLKLANG) (includes Quenya, Qenya, Sindarin, Sindarin, Nandorin, Wood-Elven, Telerin, Eldarissa, Goldogrin, Khuzdul, Adunaid, Rohirric, Wose-speech, Arctic, Black Speech, Westron (Common Speech), as well as Old English, Welsh, Norse, Finnish, etc.) Listserver: tolklang-request=server at dcs.ed.ac.uk For questions, contact: jcb at dcs.ed.ac.uk (Julian Bradfield) %%%%%%%%%% Computer Bulletin Boards for Individual Languages or, The List of Language Lists Prepared by Bernard Comrie & Michael Everson Version 1.3 (12 October 1993) ========== Michael Everson School of Architecture, UCD; Richview, Clonskeagh; Dublin 14; E/ire Phone: +353 1 706-2745 Fax: +353 1 283-8908 Home: +353 1 478-2597 From D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Tue Oct 19 18:29:07 1993 From: D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 18:29:07 +0000 Subject: Tantrakhyayika text: Lars Martin Fosse Message-ID: <161227016215.23782.455766424292677557.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Lars Martin Fosse has kindly made available to all INDOLOGY members the machine-readable text of the first two ooks of the Tantraakhyaayikaa. The files are available by anonymous ftp from the internet site ftp.bcc.ac.uk in the directory: /pub/users/ucgadkw/indology as files tantrakhyayika.readme and tantrakhyayika.zip Please let me know if you would like me to make the files available via the INDOLOGY listserv fileserver. (I.e., if you can only get files as email, not by interactive ftp.) Many thanks indeed to Lars for sharing his work in this way, for the common weal. Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Phone (and voice messages): +44 71 611 8467 Original-Received: from ticotico.linguist.jussieu.fr by shiva.jussieu.fr (smj-1.0/jussieu-3.2) at Tue, 19 Oct 1993 23:35:04 +0100 PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Original-Received: by ticotico.linguist.jussieu.fr (4.1/adc930309) at Tue, 19 Oct 93 23:35:03 +0100 PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 23:35:03 +0100 From: chevilla at linguist.jussieu.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Message-Id: <9310192235.AA27274 at ticotico.linguist.jussieu.fr> To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Tantrakhyayika Dominik, Thanks for the texts! And thanks also to Lars Martin Fosse! But could you make your version of UNZIP.EXE (pkunzip, pcunzip or whatever) available in the same directory? When I try to unzip the file with mine I get an "unknown compression method" message. Thanks for everything. More details next time I speak on this forum. -Jean-Luc Chevillard - CNRS -- Universite Paris 7 - URA 381 ("Histoire des theories linguistiques") - case 7034 - 2, place Jussieu - F-75251 Paris Cedex 05 - France From madhav.deshpande at um.cc.umich.edu Wed Oct 20 20:16:32 1993 From: madhav.deshpande at um.cc.umich.edu (madhav.deshpande at um.cc.umich.edu) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 16:16:32 -0400 Subject: Question Message-ID: <161227016217.23782.13647507965150750676.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In pre-modern Maharashtra, there was a tradition that the education of a child would begin with the words ONAAMAASIIDHAM, which is a vernacular form for "om namah siddham." The child would be introduced to the alphabet after this. This tradition is mentioned in some old Marathi Jain works as well. Does anyone know of a Sanskrit grammatical text which begins with this formula? The Kaatantra begins with "siddho varNasamaamnaayah". But where does "om namah siddham" come from? Madhav Deshpande From SATYAVO at WVNVM.EARN Wed Oct 20 22:45:19 1993 From: SATYAVO at WVNVM.EARN (Satyavolu, Uma R) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 18:45:19 -0400 Subject: ONAAMAASIIDHAM Message-ID: <161227016221.23782.2429282995161867989.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The traditional aksharabhyasam for a child in Andhra Pradesh consists of the parent guiding the initiate's hand to inscribe "Om namah Sivayah Siddham Namah." I have on several occasions enquired of the person officiating this rite, and always received vague answers like "sampradayam" and "acharam" as the source of this practice. It would be very enlightening to learn the true source of this phrase. Incidentally, an ignorant person is characterised as one who cannot say "Nam" after "O"--the Telugu colloquialism being "O Na Ma." All this is to say, I too would like to know. Uma Satyavolu Rau From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Wed Oct 20 21:23:38 1993 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 22:23:38 +0100 Subject: ONAAMAASIIDHAM Message-ID: <161227016219.23782.13188406672675222170.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Oct 20, 9:21pm, Madhav Deshpande wrote: ... > Does anyone know of a Sanskrit grammatical text which begins with > this formula? The Kaatantra begins with "siddho varNasamaamnaayah". But > where does "om namah siddham" come from? My immediate thought is that there may be a reference here to the name of the old calligraphic alphabet of the circa. 10th century, siddhamaat.rkaa. Even if this is the case, it doesn't explain much. In common with the names of most scripts in India, "siddhamaat.rkaa" is somewhat mysterious. Dominik From pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu Thu Oct 21 13:26:39 1993 From: pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu (pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 06:26:39 -0700 Subject: search Message-ID: <161227016227.23782.4913934931933829412.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> You will need a lot more than the "Help" provided by LISTSERV to search the archives. You also need to study the "LISTDB MEMO" from "info DATABase" and the "Commands-Jobs" memo. Even then, you will need to learn how to create and execute acceptable "jobs". Also, if a person is no longer (or never was) on the list, then REVIEW will not have a listing. Sometimes asking others on the list is the most efficient way to get the information. There are other ways, though: some of the internet menu-driven search systems, such as Vironica, have means to search globally for a person if you know the name and the location. From D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Thu Oct 21 13:15:18 1993 From: D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 13:15:18 +0000 Subject: UNZIP Message-ID: <161227016223.23782.2753348966286812100.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In message Tue, 19 Oct 93 23:34:17 BST, chevilla at linguist.jussieu.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) writes: > ... could you make your version of UNZIP.EXE (pkunzip, pcunzip or > whatever) available in the same directory? > > When I try to unzip the file with mine > I get an "unknown compression method" message. This is because your copy of unzip is probably out of date. There are two programs you can use: pkunzip.exe and unzip.exe. The former is a commercial/shareware program, the latter is free. Both these programs are *very* widely available on all bulletin boards, from all computer clubs, mail-order software houses, software archives, etc., etc. I believe it is beyond the scope of INDOLOGY to distribute the program (with the attendant issue of keeping up to date, including documentation, and so forth). This task is already done by so many other sites, it would be pointless for us (me) to do it too. For one place to try, have a go at ftp-ing from src.doc.ic.ac.uk in a directory called something like /pub/packages/simtel20/msdos/archivers or .../pkzip or .../zip (or something). Or try micros.hensa.ac.uk. (Both sites support gopher.) Or wsmr-Simtel20.army.mil. Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Phone (and voice messages): +44 71 611 8467 From D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Thu Oct 21 13:16:14 1993 From: D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 13:16:14 +0000 Subject: ONAAMAASIIDHAM Message-ID: <161227016225.23782.10346354547889194619.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I've got one of those Western Indian "alphabet boards" (phalaka?) in my office: it lays out the Jaina-style naagarii alphabet. I bought it in Bikaner about ten years ago. It begins: o.m nama.h siddha.m| a aa i ii u uu ... Dominik -- Dominik Wujastyk Phone (and voice messages): +44 71 611 8467 From Alan.Thew at liverpool.ac.uk Thu Oct 21 13:47:52 1993 From: Alan.Thew at liverpool.ac.uk (Alan Thew) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 14:47:52 +0100 Subject: search Message-ID: <161227016228.23782.7719751913828042446.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In the last mail, Peter Claus wrote: > > You will need a lot more than the "Help" provided by LISTSERV to search > the archives. You also need to study the "LISTDB MEMO" from "info > DATABase" and the "Commands-Jobs" memo. Even then, you will need to > learn how to create and execute acceptable "jobs". > > Also, if a person is no longer (or never was) on the list, then REVIEW > will not have a listing. Sometimes asking others on the list is the > most efficient way to get the information. There are other ways, though: > some of the internet menu-driven search systems, such as Vironica, have > means to search globally for a person if you know the name and the location. > Please note that the above features (apart from review) are NOT available with the listprocessor software that we run. Hopefully archive searching will be available when we upgrade but since we do not run the BITNET LISTSERV software, the powerful search facilities are not available. We hope to offer extended search but until announced, they are not available. Alan Thew >?From mehta at kc235-2.mgmt.purdue.edu 22 1993 Oct U 13:14:08 Date: 22 Oct 1993 13:14:08 U From: "Mehta, Shailendra" Subject: Jai Singh's observatories Not long ago someone had posted a reference to an article on Jai Singh's observatories, which appeared in the June issue of the magazine "Natural History". I read that article today and was perplexed but intrigued. I was hoping that someone on the net with a good knowledge o of the history of Indian mathematics might be able to help. The author, Peter Engel, says "these structures are now counted among the world's great works of architecture and are regarded as one of the highest achievements of Indian astronomy." Why ? Has such a claim been made in the scholarly literature, and if so are there any references available? (Peter Engel provides none.) As one who grew up within a stone's throw of the observatory in Delhi and played around it a lot, I would like to know a little bit more about the criteria used to make this statement. In my childhood ingnorance I barely noticed this odd shaped structure. Secondly, he says that "Jai Singh like the emperor (Mohammed Shah) and his subjects believed that the sun orbited the earth". I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that since the time of Aryabhata (5th century AD ?) Indian astronomy was uniformly heliocentric. Even one of the ten principal Upanishads has a clear reference to heliocentricity which Nehru plays up in his Discovery of India. Did there continue to be pockets of geocentric thought? Or was it true that heliocentric thought vanished completely from view by the time of Jai Singh. Third, I have heard that among some meditators, the observatories have a status akin to that of Stonehenge, that is as special mystical places. Was this Jai Singh's intent ? I would be grateful if someone provided any leads on these puzzles. Shailendra Raj Mehta. mehta at mgmt.purdue.edu >?From KHARE at csvaxe.csuohio.edu 22 93 Oct EST 17:08:00 Date: 22 Oct 93 17:08:00 EST From: Jitendra Khare Subject: Konkanasth Brahmins Does anybody here know about the history of Konkanasth Brahmins of Maharashtra? Jitendra Khare From yanom at JPNKSUVX.EARN Sat Oct 23 09:16:28 1993 From: yanom at JPNKSUVX.EARN (yanom at JPNKSUVX.EARN) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 09:16:28 +0000 Subject: Jai Singh's observatories Message-ID: <161227016230.23782.12750844726515514094.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In reply to Shailendra Raj Mehta, who wrote: >I was under the (perhaps >mistaken) impression that since the time of Aryabhata (5th century AD ?) Indian >astronomy was uniformly heliocentric. Even one of the ten principal Upanishads >has a clear reference to heliocentricity which Nehru plays up in his Discovery >of India. You are mistaken, because Aryabhata is rather exceptional in the history of Indian astronomy. All the later scholars had a geocentric cosmology. Even the followeres of Aryabhata took much pains to interprete Aryabhata's words by geocentrci view, just in order to save the acarya from the accusation. I wonder which Upanishad has . > Or was it >true that heliocentric thought vanished completely from view by the time of Jai >Singh. Yes, it is certainly true! Michio YANO, Kyoto Sangyo Univesity, Kyoto, Japan From JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU Sat Oct 23 18:25:28 1993 From: JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU (JSHARMA) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 18:25:28 +0000 Subject: Jai Singh's observatories Message-ID: <161227016232.23782.9316132295265921.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Shailendra Mehta writes : > Third, I have heard that among some meditators, the observatories have a status > akin to that of Stonehenge, that is as special mystical places. Was this Jai > Singh's intent ? Absolutely! Vigyan Bhairava Tantra prescribes gazing at the skies as a technique in meditation. Folks who gathered at these places in ancient (and modern) times studiously stared up for long periods of time on starlit nights trying to gauge their place in the universe, and ultimately themselves. Observatories still remain special mystical places for the folks who gather there on starlit nights. J.B. Sharma Gainesville College >?From mehta at kc235-2.mgmt.purdue.edu 24 1993 Oct U 11:34:31 Date: 24 Oct 1993 11:34:31 U From: "Mehta, Shailendra" Subject: RE: Jai Singh's observatories >You are mistaken, because Aryabhata is rather exceptional in the >history of Indian astronomy. All the later scholars had a geocentric >cosmology. Even the followeres of Aryabhata took much pains to >interprete Aryabhata's words by geocentrci view, just in order to >save the acarya from the accusation. >I wonder which Upanishad has . I am curious now. Where can I read up more on this anomaly in Indian thought ? I would love to get the latest scholarly (journal) references if anyone has them, on this topic and on Indian mathematics in general. I will dig up a copy of the Discovery of India and then by checking its reference hunt down the Upanishadic source, and then you can let me know if you think it is a valid point. Give me a couple of days. Shailendra. >?From mehta at kc235-2.mgmt.purdue.edu 24 1993 Oct U 11:27:23 Date: 24 Oct 1993 11:27:23 U From: "Mehta, Shailendra" Subject: RE: Jai Singh's observatories > Absolutely! Vigyan Bhairava Tantra prescribes gazing at the skies as >a technique in meditation. Folks who gathered at these places in >ancient (and modern) times studiously stared up for long periods of >time on starlit nights trying to gauge their place in the universe, >and ultimately themselves. Observatories still remain special >mystical places for the folks who gather there on starlit nights. I have a copy of Vigyan Bhairava, but I have never paid much attention to it since it seems to be just a compilation of very short descriptions of various techniques of meditation. Perhaps I should go back and check just what it says on this point. Are there any other references, Indological, Sociological or just popular, on this practice ? Shailendra. From dwight at unixg.ubc.ca Sun Oct 24 17:53:48 1993 From: dwight at unixg.ubc.ca (dwight at unixg.ubc.ca) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 10:53:48 -0700 Subject: Reference to "Sky-gazing" in Vijnana-bhairava Message-ID: <161227016234.23782.15938129555300732645.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Mr. Shailendra, Your reference to "sky-gazing" in the "Vijnana-bhairava" I think has little to do with astronomy or the like. It is a technique for merging the spacious of the mind which is clear, radiant and empty with its similitude the sky. In the Bud- dhist tantric work called the "Prajnaparamita-upadesa" by the Brahmin Aryadeva which is a seminal founding work of the "Chedika" tradition (gcod) which only survives in Tibetan, it recommends that the practitioner "blend his mind with the vastness of the sky". This same practice which turns up in Kasmir Saivite texts concerned with Pratyabhijna/Trika philosophy is also a core practice of the "Santimaha" (rdzogs-chen) and mahamudra traditions existings in Tibet and deriving from Indian sources. It is also a practice in some existing Nath tradi- tions of India, but I am sure it does not pertain to astronomy. Many of the living Gurus of some of these traditions would verify this if asked. Dwight A. Tkatschow Ritsumeikan Institute University of British Columbia (dwight at unixg.ubc.ca) Original-Received: from ellis.uchicago.edu by midway.uchicago.edu Sun, 24 Oct 93 14:07:54 CDT PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 14:07:09 CDT From: james nye To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Konkanasth Brahmins In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 22 Oct 93 22:10:10 BST Message-Id: Jitendra Khare inquired about the history of Konkanasth Brahmins last week. Maureen L. P. Patterson has worked with the kulavrttantas of Maharashtra Brahmins for many years. She has a large personal collection of the texts. The Oriental and India Office Collections of the British Library shows several volumes in its several catalogs which may be of use. Konkanastha athava Citpavana .... A 1916 imprint in Marathi. Gotramalika. "A lits of gotras and family names of Brahmans of the Konkan." 1868 imprint. Others could be found using the subject catalog of the Marathi colletion. James Nye >?From mehta at kc235-2.mgmt.purdue.edu 24 1993 Oct U 14:13:35 Date: 24 Oct 1993 14:13:35 U From: "Mehta, Shailendra" Subject: RE: Reference to "Sky-gazing" in Vijnana-bhairava Dwight A. Tkatschow writes: _______________________________________________________________________________ In the Bud- dhist tantric work called the "Prajnaparamita-upadesa" by the Brahmin Aryadeva which is a seminal founding work of the "Chedika" tradition (gcod) which only survives in Tibetan, it recommends that the practitioner "blend his mind with the vastness of the sky". This same practice which turns up in Kasmir Saivite texts concerned with Pratyabhijna/Trika philosophy is also a core practice of the "Santimaha" (rdzogs-chen) and mahamudra traditions existings in Tibet and deriving from Indian sources. It is also a practice in some existing Nath tradi- tions of India, but I am sure it does not pertain to astronomy. Many of the living Gurus of some of these traditions would verify this if asked. ______________________________________________ Thanks very much for the leads. Do you have any references to translations and published originals of the works you cite ? I should add that I was pleasantly surprised to find that Natha sects also practice these methods of meditatitive star gazing. I have seen many works in their tradition without ever finding a reference to these practices. Shailendra. From dwight at unixg.ubc.ca Sun Oct 24 21:50:45 1993 From: dwight at unixg.ubc.ca (dwight at unixg.ubc.ca) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 14:50:45 -0700 Subject: Available texts on "Sky-gazing" Message-ID: <161227016235.23782.2478156064019897215.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Shailendra, In response to your question regarding available texts. There are no translations published for many of these works, but I myself have translated all the main texts concerning the "Chedika" (gcod) tradition from the Tibetan for publication as a book in the near future along with their most important commentaries. I am also trying to compare them with materials still existing in other Indian languages. As to the "Prajnaparamita-upadesa", I need to type-up and formalize it, but I would be glad to share it with you and any other interested parties. Please give me a few days and I will make it available. As to the other references to Naths, I would have to consult my notebooks and field notes I collected on Tantric Sects in the Indo-Tibetan regions. I also think if I can remember when in Bali that the Saivo-Buddhist Tantric Brahmin priests also practice a similar technique. This is one Sanskritic tradition many of us Indologist fail to remember. As to the Santimaha texts these are numerous and some can be found in translation. These stem from the Bon and Buddhist traditions. If you want more information on these texts, translations, etc. I can gladly supply these. One that is very good can be found in the first and second issues of "Kailasa: Journal for Himalayana Studies". In the second issue Per Kvaerne the Norwegian Indo-Tibetologist translates an excellent text from the Bon tradition in which "sky-gazing" is described in detail for an actual yogic retreat. "Sky-gazing" is also described as one of the twenty-one sems.'dzin ("Ways of Holding the Mind") in the writings of gLong.chen.pa. Apparently it originated from the Santimaha tantra called "Kun.byed rgyal-po'i mdo" ("The Sovereign All-Creating Mind"; Skt. "Sarvadharma-santimaha-bodhicitta-kulaya-raja"). This work has been translated by E.K. Dargyay with the above English title by SUNY press (1992). There are numerous others. If fact this last summer in Virginia, one of the high scholar/monks of the Bon tradition gave just such a retreat on this practice in the Blue Ridge Mountains where a number of scholars and practitioner attended. I hope this information will help. Sincerely Yours, Dwight A. Tkatschow Ritsumeikan Institute University of British Columbia P.S. Most of the "Chedika" (gcod) texts in Tibetan are found in the multi-volume collection of tantric precepts called, "gDams.ngag.mdzod" ("The Treasury of Tantric Precepts") Vol.IX, Delhi edition, 1971. It contains both translations of Indian texts and indigenious Tibetan commentaries and liturgical practices, etc. From dwight at unixg.ubc.ca Mon Oct 25 15:45:09 1993 From: dwight at unixg.ubc.ca (dwight at unixg.ubc.ca) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 08:45:09 -0700 Subject: Available texts on "Sky-gazing" Message-ID: <161227016241.23782.6099802682759163298.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Shailendra, In response to your question regarding available texts. There are no translations published for many of these works, but I myself have translated all the main texts concerning the "Chedika" (gcod) tradition from the Tibetan for publication as a book in the near future along with their most important commentaries. I am also trying to compare them with materials still existing in other Indian languages. As to the "Prajnaparamita-upadesa", I need to type-up and formalize it, but I would be glad to share it with you and any other interested parties. Please give me a few days and I will make it available. As to the other references to Naths, I would have to consult my notebooks and field notes I collected on Tantric Sects in the Indo-Tibetan regions. I also think if I can remember when in Bali that the Saivo-Buddhist Tantric Brahmin priests also practice a similar technique. This is one Sanskritic tradition many of us Indologist fail to remember. As to the Santimaha texts these are numerous and some can be found in translation. These stem from the Bon and Buddhist traditions. If you want more information on these texts, translations, etc. I can gladly supply these. One that is very good can be found in the first and second issues of "Kailasa: Journal for Himalayana Studies". In the second issue Per Kvaerne the Norwegian Indo-Tibetologist translates an excellent text from the Bon tradition in which "sky-gazing" is described in detail for an actual yogic retreat. "Sky-gazing" is also described as one of the twenty-one sems.'dzin ("Ways of Holding the Mind") in the writings of gLong.chen.pa. Apparently it originated from the Santimaha tantra called "Kun.byed rgyal-po'i mdo" ("The Sovereign All-Creating Mind"; Skt. "Sarvadharma-santimaha-bodhicitta-kulaya-raja"). This work has been translated by E.K. Dargyay with the above English title by SUNY press (1992). There are numerous others. If fact this last summer in Virginia, one of the high scholar/monks of the Bon tradition gave just such a retreat on this practice in the Blue Ridge Mountains where a number of scholars and practitioner attended. I hope this information will help. Sincerely Yours, Dwight A. Tkatschow Ritsumeikan Institute University of British Columbia P.S. Most of the "Chedika" (gcod) texts in Tibetan are found in the multi-volume collection of tantric precepts called, "gDams.ngag.mdzod" ("The Treasury of Tantric Precepts") Vol.IX, Delhi edition, 1971. It contains both translations of Indian texts and indigenious Tibetan commentaries and liturgical practices, etc. ********(Please post on the list for all interested parties to read)************ >?From KHARE at csvaxe.csuohio.edu 25 93 Oct EST 12:15:00 Date: 25 Oct 93 12:15:00 EST From: Jitendra Khare Subject: Re: Konkanasth Brahmins Who is Maureen L.P.Patterson? Please pardon my ignorance! Jitendra Khare From rsalomon at u.washington.edu Mon Oct 25 16:02:10 1993 From: rsalomon at u.washington.edu (Richard Salomon) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 09:02:10 -0700 Subject: Om namah siddham, Siddhamaat.rkaa, etc. Message-ID: <161227016243.23782.17012937164031659250.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There is a little further information on these matters in G. Buhler's On the Origin of the Indian Brahma Alphabet, p.30, describing the schoolroom "alphabet" of western India which began with "Om namah siddham" and which "is sometimes called by the Pandits Siddhamatrika." This information seems to support two points already brought out: 1) That "Om namah siddham" precedes the "alphabet" in many parts of India, and 2) that the application of the name Siddhamatrka to the North Indian script of about the 8th to 10th centuries AD may be a misnomer-- apparently due to Al-Biruni, who referred to it as such, but perhaps thinking the term referred to a particular script style rather than to a graphic system or pattern. Note that there has been some controversy as to what the script is question should be called; see, e.g., Epigraphia Indica 1, pp.75-6 and 36, p.50. Wujastyk is no doubt right in suspecting a fundamental problem, namely that classical tradition generally did not name and classify as such what we see as different scripts. Apparently these were seem as trivial and inconsequential variations as what was essentially the same systeml this, reflecting the unspoken assumption that the sound, rather than the graph, is fundamental. One can understand how Al-Biruni, coming from an Islamic cultural background, might not have understood this, despite his deep insights into Indian culture. Richard Salomon University of Washington rsalomon at u.washington.edu From INDINST at vax.oxford.ac.uk Mon Oct 25 09:51:00 1993 From: INDINST at vax.oxford.ac.uk (INDINST at vax.oxford.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 09:51:00 +0000 Subject: Pali Tipitaka on CD-ROM Message-ID: <161227016237.23782.14947692943327817696.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >From K.R. Norman, President of the Pali Text Society BUDDHISM AND INDIAN STUDIES IMPORTANT - PLEASE NOTE VERY CAREFULLY You may have received a communication from Professor Witzel of Harvard informing you that the Dhammakaya Foundation has completed the input of the whole of the Pali Tipitaka on CD-ROM, and will be distributing it free. Please take note that the material which the Foundation proposes to distribute in this way is the property of the Pali Text Society, of which I am President. The Foundation has no right to copy the material on CD-ROM and distribute it in that or any other way. We have been negotiating with the Foundation for some time with a view to possible copying and distribution, but the negotiations have not been completed, and any copying, distribution and use are therefore in breach of our rights. Please also take note that we reserve the right to take legal action to enforce our rights in this important material against those who disregard them. The Pali Text Society is a non-profitmaking organisation established for many years and dedicated to the advancement of the study of Pali texts and the Pali language. The material which the Dhammakaya Foundation has put on CD-ROM represents many years of work and original research by this Society's scholars. Any legal proceedings which we institute will be necessary to enable us to carry out the purposes for which this organisation was founded. The pursuance of academic studies everywhere becomes impossible if the rights of others are abused as is happening in this case. From pgm at ukc.ac.uk Mon Oct 25 11:51:22 1993 From: pgm at ukc.ac.uk (pgm at ukc.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 11:51:22 +0000 Subject: Sky-gazing Message-ID: <161227016239.23782.325032259592213639.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Is it possible that the idea of blending the mind with the vastness of the sky is related to the attainments of boundless space etc as detailed in the Pali material on the arupa jhanas? Peter Moore, University of Kent (UK) From JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU Mon Oct 25 14:06:51 1993 From: JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU (JSHARMA) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 14:06:51 +0000 Subject: Reference to "Sky-gazing" in Vijnana-bhairava Message-ID: <161227016244.23782.15315846910741621849.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dwight Tkatschow writes : > Your reference to "sky-gazing" in the "Vijnana-bhairava" I think has little > to do with astronomy or the like. It is a technique for merging the > spacious of the mind which is clear, radiant and empty with its > similitude the sky. Tantra means technique, and the study and applications of techniques is technology. Quoting a modern tantric, "Science is our method, our aim is religion". So what I implied by my earlier post is that modern astronomers/scientists are modern tantrics. Tantra is technique oriented and not doctrinaire, and whereas tantra has been suppressed in India for some time, the west has seen a flowering of tantra (technology) in recent history. Tantra-like approaches can be found in many old traditions of other cultures, and hence bespeak of the human condition as opposed to just a particular Indian tradition This is not to take away from the scholarly wealth of information Dwight has pointed towards. J.B. Sharma Gainesville College From madhav.deshpande at um.cc.umich.edu Mon Oct 25 18:52:12 1993 From: madhav.deshpande at um.cc.umich.edu (madhav.deshpande at um.cc.umich.edu) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 14:52:12 -0400 Subject: Om namah siddham Message-ID: <161227016246.23782.1111950731266096909.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There has been some good discussion about "om namah siddham." It seems to appear as the first statement of a 17th century commentary on the Shaunakiiyaa Caturaadhyaayikaa by an author named Krishnadaasa. He gives a rather Hinduized interpretation of the statement. Probably the author is from Western India, i.e. Gujarat, Rajasthan, or Maharashtra, and is deeply influenced by Saarasvata-VyaakaraNa and Bhattoji's Siddhaanta Kaumudi. He makes an interesting argument about the vocalic r in Sanskrit. He refers to some scholar's view that the vocalic r must be actually consonantal, because the consonant r preceding the vocalic r is written on top of the vocalic r, as in the word nir+Rti. While the argument clearly confuses phonology with orthography, is it possible to date the beginning of such a possible argument based on our knowledge of the evolution of scripts? Madhav Deshpande >?From mehta at kc235-2.mgmt.purdue.edu 25 1993 Oct U 13:58:15 Date: 25 Oct 1993 13:58:15 U From: "Mehta, Shailendra" Subject: RE: Reference to "Sky-gazing" in Vijnana-bhairava J.B. Sharma writes: ".... Tantra means technique, and the study and applications of techniques is technology. Quoting a modern tantric, "Science is our method, our aim is religion". So what I implied by my earlier post is that modern astronomers/scientists are modern tantrics. Tantra is technique oriented and not doctrinaire, and whereas tantra has been suppressed in India for some time, the west has seen a flowering of tantra (technology) in recent history. Tantra-like approaches can be found in many old traditions of other cultures, and hence bespeak of the human condition as opposed to just a particular Indian tradition..... ........." I am not sure that I can agree with you until I see more evidence. The word 'tantra" itself apparently means loom, and hence has the connotations of the Greek 'techne'. But that is where the similarity ends. I have not seen any evidence that schools of tantra ever studied technology in the narrow sense of the term - that is fields such as metallurgy and the like. If one includes exploration of the processes of consciouness in the domain of technology, then perhaps it might be true. But even there I would have reservations. There seems to be such a frightening accretion of ritual in tantric texts that it often obscures much that they might have had to say.But I could be wrong and will defer to better judgement. Shailendra Raj Mehta mehta at mgmt.purdue.edu ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by KC235-2.mgmt.purdue.edu with SMTP;25 Oct 1993 13:27:42 U Received: from liverpool.ac.uk by mailhub.liverpool.ac.uk with Local-SMTP (PP) id <18555-0 at mailhub.liverpool.ac.uk>; Mon, 25 Oct 1993 18:16:41 +0000 Message-Id: Comment: Indology mailing list Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 18:16:36 GMT Originator: indology at liverpool.ac.uk Reply-To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk Sender: indology at liverpool.ac.uk X-ListProcessor-Version: 5.5 -- UNIX ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas From: JSHARMA To: Members of the list Subject: RE: Reference to "Sky-gazing" in Vijnana-bhairava From JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU Mon Oct 25 15:47:45 1993 From: JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU (JSHARMA) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 15:47:45 +0000 Subject: Aryabhata Message-ID: <161227016250.23782.11906715743316220338.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In reference to the discussion on stargazing, I was intrigued by the reference to Aryabhata's heliocentric cosmology. Does anyone on the list know how he arrived at this point of view, i.e thru observational data or did he just intuit this fact ? Thanks in advance. J.B. Sharma jsharma at hermes.gc.peachnet.edu From dran at cs.albany.edu Mon Oct 25 23:50:48 1993 From: dran at cs.albany.edu (dran at cs.albany.edu) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 19:50:48 -0400 Subject: kar.namUla Message-ID: <161227016253.23782.8348039147823958523.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Regarding the word `karNamUlam' there is an amusing story imvolving the great grammarian Melpattur Narayana Bhatta(tiri), who lived in the 16th century, and the King of Ambalapuzha, a small kingdom in Kerala. It seems there was a tradition in Ambalapuzha of reciting the Mahabharata daily. When Narayanabhatta visited Ambalapuzha, the resident scholar who was supposed to recite had fallen ill, and the King asked the newcomer whether he knew how to read Sanskrit `together.' [The exact question in Malayalam was `kUTTi vAyikkAn aRiyAmo?' The word `kUTTi' can be taken to mean `collecting together' or `adding anew.'] Narayanabhatta said yes. The part of the Mahabharata for recital that day was the karNaparvan. Bhima was giving a lot of trouble to the Kauravas. Narayanabhatta added a new verse he had just composed: bhImasenagadAtrastA duryodhanavarUthinI | SikhA khArvATakasyeva karNamUlamupAgatA || This literally means that the army of Duryodhana, terrified by Bhima's club (gadA), ran to Karna like the way the hairline of a balding man reaches his ears. [Please correct me if my translation is wrong.] The Raja, who was bald, appreciated the pun on the word `karNamUlam' very much, but protested that the sloka was spurious. Narayanabhatta calmly replied that he had just created the sloka since the King had asked to read `kUTTi' (`adding'). The King realized that he was dealing with no tyro. We don't know the historicity of this anecdote. But we do know that Narayanabhatta wrote his grammatical magnum opus `prakriyA-sarvasva' at the insistence of this King of Ambalapuzha. Narendran P.S. This anecdote is given in the book `The Contribution of Kerala to Sanskrit Literature' by Dr. K. Kunjunni Raja. From ami0201 at rs1.rrz.Uni-Koeln.DE Mon Oct 25 19:04:00 1993 From: ami0201 at rs1.rrz.Uni-Koeln.DE (N.N.) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 20:04:00 +0100 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227016248.23782.5474609368732785715.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> During my occupation with several osik.saa-s I met with the expression "kar.namuula". It is defined as the "place" of the svarita, whereas udaatta and anudaata are associated with muurdhan and h.rdaya. "kar.namuula" is often rendered as "root of the ears" (A.Weber etc.). Analogic to the botanic sphere, the expression thus may denote the part of the ear, which can't be seen from outside, thus: "the inner part of the ear". Explaining Raghuva.mosa 12.2, Mallinaatha takes "kar.namuulam aagatya" as "kar.nopaka.n.tham aagatya", which may be rendered as "after coming (very ?) near to the ear". Since the following action is speaking ("aaha"), I'm inclined to translate the whole with "to whisper into the ear". As my approach is based on next to nothing - is there anyone with any idea concerning "kar.namuula" ? Ralf Stautzebach  From yanom at JPNKSUVX.EARN Tue Oct 26 08:20:49 1993 From: yanom at JPNKSUVX.EARN (yanom at JPNKSUVX.EARN) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 08:20:49 +0000 Subject: Aryabhata Message-ID: <161227016251.23782.4844220089941158618.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> J.B. Sharma writes: >In reference to the discussion on stargazing, I was intrigued by the >reference to Aryabhata's heliocentric cosmology. Does anyone on the >list know how he arrived at this point of view, i.e thru >observational data or did he just intuit this fact ? What is to be noted first is that Aryabhat's view is not 'heliocentric' but he just maintained that the earth rotates on its axis. There is no clue in Aryabhata's Aryabhtiya about how he got this idea. But we suspect that the idea was transmitted from Greek astronomy where similar idea was offered by Aristarchos. It is interesting to note that the Indian way of objecting this idea is very similar to that given by Ptolemy. I have written a paper on this topic: YANO, Michio "Aryabhata's possible Rebuttal to Objections to his Theory of Rotation of the Earth", Historia Scientiarum 19 (1980), pp.101-5. Michio YANO, Professor of Sanskrit, Kyoto Sangyo Univesity. yanom at kyoto-su.ac.jp From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu Tue Oct 26 15:29:38 1993 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (rrocher at sas.upenn.edu) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 11:29:38 -0400 Subject: Job announcement Message-ID: <161227016254.23782.15284189668857731147.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> NEW POSITION IN ASIAN AMERICAN STUDIES UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA The School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania, invites applications for a position in Asian American Studies at the junior or senior level. Candidates with disciplinary specializations in any of the humanities or social sciences are encouraged to apply. The search is conducted by an interdisciplinary committee. We seek a candidate accomplished in one discipline who can think, write, teach, and collaborate across disciplines and contribute to the building of an interdisciplinary program in Asian American Studies. The appointment will be effective on July 1, 1994. Applicants should send an application letter, curriculum vitae, and list of references by December 15, 1993 to: Prof. Rosane Rocher, Chair Asian American Studies Search Committee University of Pennsylvania 820 Williams Hall Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305 USA Fax: (215) 573-2138 The University of Pennsylvania is an Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action employer. From kish at jove.rutgers.edu Wed Oct 27 17:03:34 1993 From: kish at jove.rutgers.edu (kish at jove.rutgers.edu) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 13:03:34 -0400 Subject: Om namah siddham Message-ID: <161227016256.23782.549762082949021823.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> When precisely did you delete the file ? The file I restored was from Monday afternoon's incremental backup, and this is as close to Sunday that I can get. I can restore the version that existed on Friday as well if you think it will help. -Bill From balachan at plains.NoDak.edu Wed Oct 27 18:47:48 1993 From: balachan at plains.NoDak.edu (Chandra Balachandra) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 13:47:48 -0500 Subject: Vedic geography Message-ID: <161227016261.23782.5308843104863237706.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Wed, 27 Oct 1993, Lars Martin Fosse wrote: > > I believe that Prof. Witzel has written extensively on Vedic geography. I > would be very grateful if somebody could give me some bibliographical > information about his articles. > I too would appreciate a copy of the same. Many thanks. **************************************************************************** * | "Nature, when planning this sterling fellow, * * Chandra S. Balachandran | ... made the eyes a bit too keen and * * Dep. of Geosciences | piercing for one who was neither an Empire * * North Dakota State Univ. | builder nor a traffic policeman." * * Fargo, N.D. 58105-5517 | P. G. Wodehouse * * | "Right ho, Jeeves!" * **************************************************************************** From NKATZ at CFRVM.EARN Wed Oct 27 19:03:58 1993 From: NKATZ at CFRVM.EARN (Nathan Katz, University of South Florida) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 15:03:58 -0400 Subject: Om namah siddham Message-ID: <161227016263.23782.12353136251467770848.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On behalf of G. Dharmasiri, visiting prof. at Bowdoin College: Cananyone supply a bibliographic reference for an article by Rajneesh, "Tantric View of Sex," which appeared in the Illustrated Weekly of India, likely sometime between 1977 and 1987? Thank you. --Nathan Katz From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Wed Oct 27 17:31:21 1993 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 18:31:21 +0100 Subject: Vedic geography Message-ID: <161227016258.23782.2812153719681532204.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I believe that Prof. Witzel has written extensively on Vedic geography. I would be very grateful if somebody could give me some bibliographical information about his articles. Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From sgambhir at sas.upenn.edu Thu Oct 28 18:30:05 1993 From: sgambhir at sas.upenn.edu (sgambhir at sas.upenn.edu) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 14:30:05 -0400 Subject: Penn-in-India Summer Program for Undergraduates Message-ID: <161227016265.23782.8697778151032580853.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Penn-in-India# May 27 - July 8, 1994# # # # The Program# Lasting six weeks over the summer, the Penn in India program is designed to provide students a unique opportunity to examine cultural, socio-economic and political issues of contemporary Indian life through academic study as well as personal cultural experiences. The Program, based in Pune, India, offers a wide and exciting range of courses in Indian religions and philosophies, performing arts, India's business world and investment climate, and traditional medicine. Students will choose two courses and will have the added option of studying an Indian language. Courses will earn Penn credits and will be taught by Indian and American faculty. The classes will be held at the University of Poona campus which is the Indian insitution affiliated with the Penn-in-India program. As a supplemental 'hands-on' experience, students will have an opportunityt to participate in a community project and will have an opportunity to seek internships with affiliated local museums, industries, hospitals, depending on their areas of interest. Arrangements have been made for the accepted students to be housed with Indian families in the area.# # The program is open to all undergraduates enrolled in any educational institution. Selection will be based on academic record, and aptitude to adapt to foreign culture. There are no prerequisites in terms of any course work or any prior exposure to India.# # # Location# Pune, with a population approaching 4 million, is situated on the Deccan plateau, 120 miles southeast of Bombay. Once the seat of the mighty Maratha empire, and the summer residence of the Bombay government in colonial times, Pune enjoys a delightful climate, and is a complex blend of the ancient and the modern. Though linked by air to Bombay, Delhi, Bangalore, and other major cities, it is best reached by the fast trains from Bombay that make a scenic climb up the Western Ghats (coastal range). # As a premier seat of learning, Pune contains some of India's most prestigious educational institutions, such as the University of Poona, Deccan College, Fergusson College, The Film and Television Institute, The Center for Development of Advanced Computing, and research institutes such as the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute and other institutes engaged in research in the field of Ayurveda (the traditional Indian medicinal system). Given such a diverse intellectual milieu, Pune attracts internationally renowned scholars from all over the world. Cultural institutions involved with Indian dance, music, and other forms of art abound. Pune's active cultural life steeped in tradition, and its emergence as one of India's most dynamic centers of new small and medium-sized industry, all bolster a cosmopolitan atmosphere and make it a city of choice for many Indians and foreigners# # # # APPLICATION AND REGISTRATION# The application deadline is March 1, 1994. All applications must be accompanied by a non-refundable $35 fee to cover processing costs and up-to-date resume. On admission a non-refundable $300 is required to hold the place: this will be credited toward the final cost of the program. Seats being limited, early applications are strongly advised, as admissions will close as soon as the required number of students have been accepted.# # COSTS# Tuition (2 courses) $2,410# Program Cost* $1,500# # (* includes discounted group rate international round-trip travel between New York and Pune, local travel for field trips, room and board , tickets for cultural programs, and language instruction. This cost is subject to minor modifications depending on any drastic changes in the cost of international travel.)# # Courses# Students will register for two out of the following four courses:# # South Asia Regional Studies (SARS) 101: Legacy of India# This is a course about the mythology, religion, and philosophy of India. This course will introduce students to the stories, themes, and issues in traditional Indian religious, mythological, and philosophical thought, while examining their import in the larger socio-cultural context of India. Readings of primary sources will be available in English translation. Visits to important sites, attendance at religious performances, and guest lectures will supplement regular class sessions. (Interested students who have already taken one or more courses on traditional India are encouraged to inquire about the possibility of arranging special directed study for academic credit).# # (SARS 301): Performing Arts: Classical and Regional # This course will survey some of the main classical performance art traditions of India making special use of the resources in the Bombay-Pune area. Special attention will be given to the Hindustani art music tradition, for which Bombay and Pune are renowned. Several field trips will be made to attend performances, and to visit artists' residences and schools of music and dance. Students may also have the opportunity to take lessons in sitar, tabla, or vocal music outside of class hours. Class lectures, reading and listening assignments and discussions will focus on acquiring basic listening skills and will explore the social, cultural, and historical contexts of performing arts in South Asia. # # (SARS 404 / Econ 023): Topics in Economic Development: India's Corporate World and Economic Reforms # This course primarily aims at discussing recent changes in Indian economic policy, and at situating India within the larger global economy. Issues to be discussed will range from the legislation affecting Indian corporations, to recent liberalization of economic policies and foreign collaborations. The discussions will also explore comparative paradigms between the policies and economic activities of India and other developing countries.# # (SARS 302): Ayurvedic Medicine: Research and Practice # Over 3000 years old, Ayurveda is the traditional healthcare system of India and Southeast Asia which views a balance between body, mind and environment as essential to health. Ayurveda employs medicinal plants, minerals and animal products to treat diseases. The course will explore both the ancient and modern practices of this science with the help of academic texts, as well as practical training such as discussions of the clinical methods and the herbs used in the preparation of Ayurvedic medications. As part of the course, trips to clinics, herb gardens and modern pharmaceutical facilities will also be organized.# # Language Instruction# The program will seek to arrange for instruction in any major Indian language that students are interested in. Students will be encouraged to acquire verbal and written skills related to their social, cultural and educational experiences. The language instruction will be arranged on an individual tutorial basis.# # Internship# After the classes are over, students may have an opportunity to participate in internships with an Indian organization (corporations, research institutes, self-help groups, hospitals, etc.) for a few weeks. The program director will coordinate such assignments between the students and the institutes. # # For further information# # Dr. Surendra Gambhir, Director# Penn-in-India Program# South Asia Regional Studies# University of Pennsylvania# 820 Williams Hall# Philadelphia, PA. 19104-6305# Phone: (215) 898-7475# FAX: (215) 573 2138# Email : sgambhir at sas.upenn.edu# # or# # Penn Summer Abroad# College of General Studies# University of Pennsylvania# 3440 Market Street, Suite 100# Philadelphia, PA. 19104-6305# Phone: (215) 898-5738# FAX: (215) 573-2053# From czm1 at cornell.edu Thu Oct 28 23:34:26 1993 From: czm1 at cornell.edu (czm1 at cornell.edu) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 19:34:26 -0400 Subject: Vedic geography Message-ID: <161227016267.23782.5015669809445519785.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >I believe that Prof. Witzel has written extensively on Vedic geography. I >would be very grateful if somebody could give me some bibliographical >information about his articles. Since there were two requests, and I have seen no response to date, I offer this partial bibliography of Witzel's work on the regionality of the Vedic schools. This work has appeared in the form of a series of articles published in many different places. First of all check his review article in the most recent JAOS, where he lists the bibliography of some of his work on the subject. The three most important articles for 'geography', which will have references to the other articles are: 1. "Regionale und ueberregionale Faktoren in der Entwicklung vedischer Brahmanengruppen in Mittelalter" in Regionale Tradition in Suedasien, ed. H. Kulke and D. Rothermund, Heidelberg 1986. 2. "On the localisation of Vedic texts and schools" in Fel. Vol. Eggermont, India and the Ancient World, ed. G. Pollet, Leuven 1987. 3. "Tracing the Vedic dialects" in ed. C. Caillat, Dialectes dans les litteratures Indo-Aryennes, Paris, 1989. There is also "Notes on Vedic Dialects" Zinbun: Annals of the Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 25 (1990). The work is still in progress, and the articles will presumably someday be published together. I hope this information is not redundant. C. Minkowski