From whitford at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Mon Nov 1 17:02:06 1993 From: whitford at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Angelina M. Whitford) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 93 11:02:06 -0600 Subject: New South Asia Journal Message-ID: <161227016270.23782.11185812502135979131.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ____Sagar: South Asia Graduate Research Journal____ The University of Texas Center for Asian Studies and its graduate students studying South Asia are pleased to announce the launching of a journal of South Asian studies. The journal will be divided into two sections. One section will showcase exceptional graduate student articles. The other will highlight faculty and graduate research methodology and reports from the field, and will include occasional book reviews. The first issue will be published in the last spring of 1994 and biannually thereafter. The journal will be available in both electronic and bound editions. Members of our editorial collective include: Ali Asani, Richard Barnett, Manu Bhagavan, James Brow, Paul Courtright, Don Davis, Chandra DeSilva, Nicholas Dirks, Diana Eck, Wilhelm Halbfass, Robert Hardgrave, Syed Akbar Hyder, Atul Kohli, Pauline Kolenda, Janice Leoshko, Wm. Roger Louis, David Pinault, Paula Richmond, Richard Salomon, Sagaree Sengupta, Nikhil Sinha, Cynthia Talbot, Thomas Trautmann, Angelina Whitford, and Eleanor Zelliot. We are now accepting both submissions and subscriptions. For more information, email us at sagrj at emx.cc.utexas.edu To subscribe to the electronic edition of the journal, send an email message with a blank subject line to majordomo at bongo.cc.utexas.edu with the one line message "subscribe sagar-journal". The bound edition of the journal is available with a yearly subscription fee of $16 U.S. For further information, please contact us in any of the following ways. Email: sagrj at emx.cc.utexas.edu Phone: (512) 471-5811 Fax: (512) 471-4469 Snail-mail: Sagar: South Asia Graduate Research Journal Center for Asian Studies University of Texas Campus Mail Code 59300 Austin, TX 78712-1194 USA >?From KHARE at csvaxe.csuohio.edu 1 93 Nov EST 13:49:00 Date: 1 Nov 93 13:49:00 EST From: Jitendra Khare Subject: RE: New South Asia Journal Does anybody know of any books published on the Indien Freikorps, and ....of any anti-British activities during the Second World War? If yes where can I buy/borrow them? Are there any LISTS/Discussion Digests on WW 2 on the Net? Khare >?From mehta at kc235-2.mgmt.purdue.edu 1 1993 Nov U 14:13:13 Date: 1 Nov 1993 14:13:13 U From: "Mehta, Shailendra" Subject: RE: WW2 Agehanada Bharati's autobiography, the Ochre Robe, has a section on his activities in the Freikorps. Shailendra. _______________________________________________________________________________ From: indology at liverpool.ac.uk on Mon, Nov 1, 1993 2:04 PM Subject: RE: New South Asia Journal To: Members of the list Does anybody know of any books published on the Indien Freikorps, and ....of any anti-British activities during the Second World War? If yes where can I buy/borrow them? Are there any LISTS/Discussion Digests on WW 2 on the Net? Khare >?From KHARE at csvaxd.csuohio.edu 1 93 Nov EST 14:35:00 Date: 1 Nov 93 14:35:00 EST From: Jitendra Khare Subject: RE: WW2 Thank you, Mr. Mehta. Is his autobiography available easily? Do you know of any German Documents which might help me? Jitendra Khare From WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU Wed Nov 3 19:28:46 1993 From: WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 93 14:28:46 -0500 Subject: NEWS from Thailand/ENGLAND on the TIPITAKA Message-ID: <161227016274.23782.1282364809439540026.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Dhammakaya Foundation has asked me to transmit the following message to you with regard to te message of Mr. K. R. Norman, president of PTS, of Oct. 25 to members of this list: "We have been trying to reach Mr. Norman who is out of town now but we have not been successful so far. In the meantime, we want to clarify some of the points raised in Mr. Norman's message. 1. The Dhammakaya Foundation is indeed planning to issue a CD-ROM containing the complete Pali canon, free of charge. However, this is not identical with the PTS version but it will be based on other versions as well. The disk will have DOS (IBM), MacIntosh, or NEC front ends (retrieval systems for quick searches, etc.). The code used will be the international one used by this network. We will, however, include a simple program that will allow you to change the data into your own preferred transcription system. 2. We have received a large number of requests for the CD- ROM from all over the world. This encourages us to proceed with our further preparations. 3. Indeed, we have been negotiating with the PTS in good faith about possible distribution of their materials, and we want to work together with them and other organisations in preparing increasingly reliable and complete versions of the Pali texts (including, eventually, all known versions). Negotiations with PTS are nearly completed. 4. We have not proposed and indeed will not distribute without permission a CD-ROM with material belonging to others. Therefore, some of the statements in Mr. Norman's letter are not correct, such as "the [PTS] material which the Dhammakaya Foundation has put on CD-ROM" (indeed, we have not), and that we are "abus[ing]" "the rights of others". 5. If the PTS choses to disallow the use of their material, we will distribute whatever versions we have put in now, but the complete elimination of PTS materials from the database will take a long time again. The texts have been keyed in through the the voluntary efforts of hundreds of Thai lay people, representing many years of dedicated service to the Dhamma. Changing our database now would further delay the accessibility of the Canon in electronic form. In fact, it was Mr. Norman himself, who in 1987 had persuaded us to include the PTS version of the Pali texts instead of simply keying in the Thai version. 6. Finally, we are encouraged by the response of the international scholarly community and we look forward to be able to serve all of you soon. As for the future, we plan to publish a complete word concordance, with surrounding phrases, of the Vinaya, to be followed by the Sutta and Abhidamma sections. 7. Please, send any further comments to us or to Mr. K. R. Norman (c/o INDINST at vax.oxford.ac.uk = Indian Institute, Oxford University, Oxford, UK or: 6, Huttles Green, Shepreth, Royston, Herts., SG8 6PR, England, UK). Our Address is as given last time: Nicolas C. Wood, c/o Dattajivo Bhikkhu, The Dhammakaya Foundation, Pathumthani 12120, Thailand -- or by e-mail c/o Witzel at husc3.harvard.edu. The Dhammakaya Foundation " I think this message speaks for itself. -- I hope the above also answers some of the questions asked on this list about the nature of the proposed CD-ROM. Any questions directed to me personally will be answered by general e-mail on this net, or individually as soon as time allows. We are in the midst of the semester and of two searches (Tibetan and Sanskrit). -- A Sanskrit lecturership which is the result of the resignation of James Benson 10 days ago, will cover the academic year July 1994-June 1995, and is to be announced soon. Sorry for not answering to the Vedic geography question in time. My thanks to C. Minkowski for doing so! --- M. Witzel. Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University Church Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA phones 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571, e-mail witzel at husc3.harvard.edu From pbilmo at deakin.edu.au Wed Nov 3 11:20:47 1993 From: pbilmo at deakin.edu.au (purushottama bilimoria) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 93 22:20:47 +1100 Subject: IXth Sanskrit Conference - Motel Message-ID: <161227016272.23782.8428918690658419784.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The organisors have struck a deal with a decent motel two blocks from the venue of the Sanskrit Conference. The motel room can be had for single occupancy at Aus $65 a day or double at $79. This should suit couples and people who might want to share a room (twin single beds is another option). Having airconditioning and a swimming pool in the yard should make the summer evenings a little more bearable. It has a well- stocked bar and a spacious lounge. we would like to suggest that the majority of our guests and delegates from the colder regions of the world should consider opting for the motel accommodation, even if they have already nominated International House in the forms returned to the Secretariat. Of course, no meals apart from breakfast come with the motel room, but we are arranging for cheap lunch boxes ($2 per person) to be available at the conference, and there is a function almost every evening. If this appeals to those who have already sent in their bookings, and a change of booking is desirable please inform the Secretariat either directly or through me via e-mail. We shall confirm the arrangements and give you details of the motel. (The virtues of having an e-mail address is that when someone spotting my name in the third brochure thought he would make contact after a lapse of some years, scribbled simply my last name followed by the e-mail address and posted it. It reached me like any regular posted mail!) Dr BILIMORIA From buddha at leland.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 5 02:19:02 1993 From: buddha at leland.Stanford.EDU (Corvin Russell) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 93 18:19:02 -0800 Subject: Bala swaminathan's address Message-ID: <161227016276.23782.2089854027619551686.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I had meant to write Bala Swaminathan long back, but an ELM screwup deleted my received box. Could someone provide me with his email address? Thank you kindly. Corvin PS I check email weekly at most now. >?From THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV 05 1993 Nov GMT 15:10:15 Date: 05 Nov 1993 15:10:15 GMT From: ALLEN W THRASHER Subject: MARATHI ZOOL. BOOKS OFFERED Would any library like the following Marathi books which I will donate if I get an acknowledgement for tax purposes: Gokhale, Vi. Na. Pakshi vijnana Pune: Anatha Vidyarthi Grha Prakasana, 1967 Medhekara, Janardana Sankara Kitaka-paricaya, Bhaga 1 la Pune:Citrasala Presa, 1930 Kolhatakara, Balakrshna Sridhara Kitaka-paricaya, Bhaga 2 la Pune: Citrasala Presa, n.d. Graba, Sailaja Rabarta Maharashtratila vanyaprani Mumbai: Maharashtra Rajya Sahita Samskrti Mandala, 1978. I'd give them to LOC but they are outside the scope of our policies. They might be of some use in language teaching, however. Allen Thrasher thrasher at mail.loc.gov >?From GRUENEN at mail.sub.gwdg.de 8 93 Nov GMT-0100 16:09:33 Date: 8 Nov 93 16:09:33 GMT-0100 From: GRUENENDAHL Subject: review indology From WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU Mon Nov 8 16:49:43 1993 From: WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 93 11:49:43 -0500 Subject: letter Message-ID: <161227016279.23782.4839836517043804800.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Professor Pollock, what a pleasure to receive your letter. How are you? I hope you have a better time now. I wander how you can manage all things you manage. Time in this society is also much shorter than anywhere else. So, we will not meet in Australia! But, have you already planned to come here? Thank you for what you repeated to me. The news y o u s a i d you could not find anybody "good enough" for the Sanskrit position in your University is another typical lie from, I guess, the usual people (whom we know). (Divide et impera!) I am concentrated on this autumn like a huntig dog scenting its game. I try to go at least once a week to the countryside or to parks, to walk in woods. But when there is not light anymore, I can not do nothing but smell my friendly Mediterranean sea and its warmth, my colours, the wanderful confusion of our streets and squares. I will send my new article on striidharma, a little bit long, almost 70 pages, but I hope not too boring. I know you do not have time, but your opinions are well accepted! This is my first time I write by computer; I hope to have my personal line soon. Insomma, sembra molto difficile incontrarsi. Ci riusciremo prima o poi? Cari saluti- enrica garzilli From WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU Mon Nov 8 17:08:42 1993 From: WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 93 12:08:42 -0500 Subject: vorrei conoscerla Message-ID: <161227016281.23782.2821924480949489081.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Caro Dottor Passi, endo il R? Mi spiace degli errori, ma e' la prima volta che scrivo con questo(orribile) sistema. Comunque credo sia meglio che la saluti, sto facendo un'enormita' di errori. E per di piu' con fatica. Spero d'incontrarla in Italia Cordiali saluti enrica garzilli From pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu Mon Nov 8 22:21:36 1993 From: pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu (pclaus at s1.csuhayward.edu) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 93 14:21:36 -0800 Subject: letter Message-ID: <161227016286.23782.14755273425128420019.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Is it necessary for all the members of the list-group to read personal mail such as: #From indology-request at liverpool.ac.uk Mon Nov 8 09:08:09 1993 #Subject: letter # #Dear Professor Pollock, #what a pleasure to receive your letter. How are you? I hope # you have a better time now. I wander how you can manage all # things you manage. Time in this society is also much # shorter than anywhere else. # #So, we will not meet in Australia! But, have you already # planned to come here? # #Thank you for what you repeated to me. The news y o u s a i # d you could not find anybody "good enough" for the #Sanskrit position in your University is another typical lie # from, I guess, the usual people (whom we know). (Divide et # impera!) # #I am concentrated on this autumn like a huntig dog scenting # its game. I try to go at least once a week to the # countryside or to parks, to walk in woods. But when there # is not light anymore, I can not do nothing but smell my # friendly Mediterranean sea and its warmth, my colours, the # wanderful confusion of our streets and squares. # #I will send my new article on striidharma, a little bit # long, almost 70 pages, but I hope not too boring. I know # you do not have time, but your opinions are well accepted! # #This is my first time I write by computer; I hope to have my # personal line soon. # #Insomma, sembra molto difficile incontrarsi. Ci riusciremo # prima o poi? #Cari saluti- # # enrica garzilli # # # # # >?From JBBAPAT at ccs1.cc.monash.edu.au 9 93 Nov GMT+1000 17:15:27 Date: 9 Nov 93 17:15:27 GMT+1000 From: BAPAT JB Subject: Temple Priests Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have been working on the temple priests of Maharashtra for some time now. These priests are called GURAV.They also call themselves Devalaka brahmins.The Devalaka myth comes from the Shivapurana. Devalakas are considered to be inferior Brahmins,probably due to the fact that they accept remuneration for their services.Actually the Marathi Brahmins call the Gurav "Shudras".I have traced the Gurav back to Karnataka where they are called Goravas. If you are not sufficiently confused yet,let me continue. In trying to relate the Gurav to Goravas, Devalakas, Temple-worship and their current status as Shudras in Maharashtra, I have to find answers to the following questions: 1] References to Shudras being custodians of Idols in the distant past. 2] Early history of Shaivism and the way it coalesced with Aryan\Brahminic religion, 3] References to Devalakas between 200 AD to now, 4] Early history of Kalamukhas{who were called Goravas}, 5] the origin of the Jnansamhita of the Shivpurana 6] The status of the temple priests in other parts of India Can anyone help? Jayant Bapat [jbbapat at ccs1.cc.monash.edu.au] ____________________________________________________________________ Dr J.B. Bapat Phone (03)565 4510 Chemistry Department Fax (03)565 4597 Monash University e-mailjbbapat at ccs1.monash.edu.au Wellington Road Clayton VICTORIA 3168 ___________________________________________________________________ Original-Sender: stephen at vax.oxford.ac.uk Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1993 09:22:12 +0000 From: Stephen Miller To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk CC: stephen at vax.oxford.ac.uk Message-ID: <0097546A.5F561EF2.5883 at vax.ox.ac.uk> Subject: Re: letter > Is it necessary for all the members of the list-group to read personal > mail such as: Well, yes -- if you send your personal mail to the list... Stephen Miller -------------------------------------------------------- Stephen Miller National Academic Typesetting Service stephen.miller at oucs.ox.ac.uk Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford, UK. OX2 6NN Tel +44 (0)865 273200 / 273266 (direct) / 273275 (fax) -------------------------------------------------------- From ukxdijl at ucl.ac.uk Mon Nov 8 22:30:38 1993 From: ukxdijl at ucl.ac.uk (I. Julia Leslie) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 93 22:30:38 +0000 Subject: Lectureship in Hindi Message-ID: <161227016283.23782.16643646409360511537.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) University of London Lectureship in Hindi Applications are invited for a Lectureship in Hindi, tenable in the Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia. The appointee will be required to teach Hindi language and literature, and to contribute to the Department's broader programme of courses on contemporary India. Candidates should have a good practical and theoretical knowledge of Hindi and its literature (specialisation in the modern period would be preferred), and will be expected to have or to be close to completing a PhD. A commitment to the active pursuit of research is essential. The initial appointment will be for five years from September 1994, and the grading on the Lecturer Scale will reflect age and experience. The scale is in the range pounds 13,601-25,107 plus a London Allowance of pounds 2,134. Applicants should apply by letter, supported by a full CV and the names and addresses of three referees, to: The Personnel Office, School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square, London WC1H 0XG. Tel: +44-71-323-6189, FAX: +44-71-436-3844. Further details are available from: Dr. Rupert Snell, Head of the Department of South Asia, (Tel: +44-71-323-6229), at the same address. Applications should be received by Friday 11 February 1994. SOAS is an equal opportunities employer. ----- Julia Leslie (ijl) SOAS, University of London: +44 71 323 6296 From D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Tue Nov 9 12:23:17 1993 From: D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 93 12:23:17 +0000 Subject: Royal Asiatic Society and sale of manuscript Message-ID: <161227016287.23782.5934979952411862891.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There is a serious controversy brewing in London, over the sale by the Royal Asiatic Society of a valuable series of paintings You may recall that some years ago the RAS sold a MS of the Rashid-al-din. There was quite a controversy at the time, with the Fellows participating in a public debate about the issues. Many Fellows resigned in protest at the time, feeling that the RAS's custodial role of treasures donated over the centuries had been fatally compromised. Others felt that the financial exigencies of the Society's position then justified the sale. The money raised by the sale of the MS enabled the RAS to buy its own property, and at the time it was widely understood amongst the remaining Fellows that the RAS was now on a firm financial footing, and could resume and indeed somewhat expand its role in the scholarly community. During this August, when the Society was shut and most Fellows out of station, the Society decided to sell another manuscript. This time affairs seem to have been handled differently, with almost nobody outside the RAS Council being aware of the pending sale. The manuscript was handed over to Southeby's and was actually sold last month, for 1.22 million pounds. There was no attempt to air the decision amongst the Fellows generally, indeed most Fellows were completely unaware of the matter until last week. I append a copy of an article published in the London newspaper The Telegraph which presents the issues in journalistic style. A Special General Meeting was announced last week, to be held on 9th December at the RAS in London, to discuss this matter. With the announcement came two statements from Prof. Bivar, which I shall copy out and post to INDOLOGY later today. Dominik ------------------------------------------------------------------- Printed Wed Nov 03 15:34:14 1993 Rank: 1, DocID: 12214 DTL 03 AUG 93 / The Arts: Fury as treasures of the East go west - Plans to sell off one of the finest collections of flora and fauna drawings in Britain has sent shockwaves through academia. Bruce Palling reports By BRUCE PALLING PROMINENT scholars from institutions ranging from the School of Oriental and African Studies in London to the Royal Botanical Gardens at Kew are up in arms about the decision of the Royal Asiatic Society to sell off an immensely valuable collection of historical drawings. Orientalists and natural historians alike are furious that the Society has instructed Sotheby's to auction in October more than 600 exquisite coloured drawings of flora and fauna put together 170 years ago by General William Farquhar, the first Resident of Singapore. No attempt has been made to offer the Collection to another British institution. According to one senior member, many of the staff at the Society's Bayswater headquarters are opposed to the sale but are scared to speak publicly. The Royal Asiatic Society is not a place one associates with controversy. Since it was founded in 1823, the reigning monarch has always been its Patron. Its 1,000 or so fellows include the world's most distinguished orientalists, devoted to the study of Asian history, cultures and languages. The Farquhar Collection is probably the most important collection of flora and fauna drawings held by an institution to face dispersal in Britain this century. Estimates for the sale range from pounds 400,000 to pounds 750,000 and beyond. While everyone involved speaks of the desirability of keeping the Collection together, few doubt that it will be split up and sold in lots to collectors for drawing-room walls. This prospect does not appear to concern Professor A. D. H. Bivar, the president of the Society. He says that the Collection will probably fetch less as a whole than in individual lots and 'that will not be to the Society's advantage'. More extraordinarily, he concedes that there is no pressing reason for the auction, but says: 'We are running a deficit so we would welcome more capital.' The drawings were presented to the Society by Farquhar, a colourful character, in 1827. Such was his love of natural history that he employed three keepers for his personal menagerie, which included a leopard, a porcupine and a tiger that he kept in his house. He paid various local artists to make the drawings in the Collection. (Farquhar's arch rival, Sir Stamford Raffles, had the misfortune to see his collection destroyed when the ship returning him to England was engulfed by fire off Sumatra in 1824.) In 1937, the Society lodged the drawings with the Natural History Museum Library where they remained on loan until 1991. What adds to the Farquhar Collection's importance is that many of the original plant specimens are still held in the Wallich Collection of the Royal Botanical Gardens Herbarium at Kew. Few fellows of the Society knew of the existence of the Farquhar Collection until a beautiful catalogue of the paintings, drawings, engravings and busts belonging to the Society was published in 1991. Critics of the sale believe the catalogue may have been the Collection's downfall, as they suspect a wealthy collector in the Far East may have made inquiries as to its availability. Potential purchasers include the Sultan of Brunei and various institutions in Singapore. Sotheby's intend to display the Collection in several South-East Asian capitals before the sale. Both Professor Bivar and Dr Dennis Duncanson, the Society's director, say the prime reason for the sale is the lack of security at its headquarters, where the Collection is once again housed. This argument is dismissed as 'nonsense' by one former fellow: 'The Society has far more valuable items at its headquarters than the Farquhar Collection. Besides, the security systems have been extensively upgraded in the past three years.' When asked if he had consulted the Natural History Museum Library about the sale of the Collection, Dr Duncanson replies: 'Yes. They said they had quite liked having it but if they no longer had it, it would not be a matter of great concern.' He adds: 'It is not a national treasure - it is really a work of art and not a source of learning.' Dr Duncanson's assertions are hotly disputed by Rex Banks, the head of Library Services at the Natural History Museum. He describes the behaviour of the Royal Asiatic Society as 'outrageous'. Banks says that the correspondence with the Society 'focused entirely on the need for preservation of the volumes. I contacted it a decade ago expressing concern at the deterioration of the leather and the binding. It took them away in 1991 to determine what conservation work had to be done . . . 'What is slightly devious here is the apparent disguise of the intent to dispose of the Collection. We were never aware that it was taking them away for anything other than conservation purposes. We have still not been officially told about the sale . . . The Society has treated us very poorly.' The Society argues that the cost of repairing and rebinding the six folio volumes that make up the Collection is beyond its resources. Dr Duncanson claims the estimate it was given by Shepherds, a leading London bookbinder, was pounds 6,000; Professor Bivar says the Society believed the final figure would be higher. However, the bookbinders themselves say the figure they quoted was only pounds 3,000. Professor Bivar is unrepentant about not offering the Collection to another institution. 'We couldn't really justify making a sale at a cut price just for sentimental reasons,' he says. Several former council members of the Society have expressed misgivings about the sale and especially the way that it was raised at the annual general meeting last May as a verbal report, with no discussion about what the options were. One former council member now speaking out is Barry Bloomfield, formerly head librarian at the School of Oriental and African Studies and then at the India Office Library: 'Breaking up a collection like this is perhaps not the best way of proceeding . . . There was no major reason given for the need to sell it but any learned society asked if it would like three-quarters of a million pounds will inevitably say yes.' Dr John Bastin, Reader Emeritus in South-East Asian history at the University of London, says the Farquhar Collection is 'the finest collection of such drawings. Their historical and scientific importance goes beyond this, however, because they relate to other similar drawings in national collections in the UK . . . To remove them from this country and especially to break up the collection would be a tragedy.' Dr Duncanson, a former reader in South-East Asian Studies at the University of Kent, was also director when the Society sold the Rashid Al-Din, a 14th-century Persian illustrated manuscript, at Sotheby's for pounds 935,000 in 1981. There was considerable protest at the sale, but an appeal failed to raise more than pounds 500,000 to save it. The proceeds from the sale of the Rashid Al-Din were used to purchase the freehold on the Society's current headquarters. If there were a genuine financial crisis, some fellows would prefer to see the Society's treasures sold to an institution such as the British Museum. What horrifies them about the Farquhar sale is that it faces the prospect of being destroyed as a collection. The first - and last - time a member of the Society was asked to leave was in 1910, when he wrote a letter to The Times supporting 'political assassination, and in particular the assassination of Englishmen by Indians'. Should the Farquhar Collection be irretrievably broken up on October 20, after surviving intact for nearly two centuries, a number of fellows may voluntarily relinquish their membership in disgust. The Daily Telegraph -End- -- Dominik Wujastyk Phone (and voice messages): +44 71 611 8467 Wellcome Institute, 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE. From D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Tue Nov 9 16:40:14 1993 From: D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 93 16:40:14 +0000 Subject: Statement from the President of the RAS Message-ID: <161227016289.23782.3992716966086898360.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Earlier today you will have received a copy of the August newspaper report by the Telegraph about the RAS's sale of the Farquhar paintings. Here is a copy of a statement by Prof. Bivar, President of the RAS, which was distributed to Fellows about a week ago. With it was distributed notice of a forthcoming special Fellows' meeting on Dec 9th to discuss these matters, and a copy of his address of May 93 in which he first raised the possibility of selling material from the RAS collections. Most Fellows not resident in central London will not have seen any of this material before, or been aware of any of the issues. Later today I shall post a copy of the abovementioned May address. I am posting these messages on my own personal behalf, since I consider them of interest to readers of INDOLOGY. I am not posting them on behalf of the RAS or any other body or group. --------------------------------------------------------------------- STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT [of the RAS, London] (November 1993) It has come to the notice of the Council that concern is being expressed by some Fellows, in particular those who did not attend the Annual General Meeting last May, about the current sale by the Society of the Farquhar Natural History Albums. On the strong recommendation of the auctioneers, the sale was fixed for October 20th, and Fellows have therefore not yet received the printed copy of my address. The situation had been complicated by some misleading statements published in a newspaper article. Particularly incorrect was the innuendo that the Council might be proposing a general sale of other possessions, which is without foundation. In view of these misunderstandings, it seems appropriate to circulate now to all members, in advance of publication, a copy of the May statement, and to call a Special General Meeting at which the various aspects of the matter may be discussed. The Council also proposes three resolutions for consideration at the meeting, which it is hoped may allay any uneasiness arising from such misleading reports. Fellows may also wish to know that the Farquhar Albums were auctioned at Southeby's on 20th October 1993, and that the final bid was for pounds 1,220,000. Although the identity of the purchaser is not known at present, Fellows will be relieved to learn that the entire collection went to a single bidder, who is thought to be an official institution in South-East Asia. It is of course fully understood that the result of the sale places substantial responsibilities on the Council of the Society, and indeed on the general body of Fellows, to ensure that this accession of funds is applied to the best long-term advantage of our Society's objectives. -- Dominik Wujastyk Phone (and voice messages): +44 71 611 8467 Wellcome Institute, 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE. From D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Tue Nov 9 17:05:04 1993 From: D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 93 17:05:04 +0000 Subject: RAS President's address of May 1993 Message-ID: <161227016291.23782.3633133704077811859.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The following is forwarded to INDOLOGY by me personally, for general interest. DW. -------------------------------------------------------------------- EXTRACT FROM THE [Royal Asiatic Society, London] PRESIDENT'S ADDRESS OF 13 MAY 1993 [Prof. ADH Bivar, Pres., Royal Asiatic Society, London] "The Treasurer has reported the state of our finances. Once more, as anticipated, we have a five-figure deficit. A shortfall of \pounds 13,683 looks worrying, but is less so for the moment. Measures of economy, introduced last year, somewhat reducing our activities, have also slimmed down expenditure. Nearly half of the deficit still relates to commitments undertaken several years ago, when income was higher. Without this factor, and items of capital outlay themselves designed to reduce costs, the deficit would stand at little more than \pounds 7,000. Even so, overheads continue to creep up, with the threat of recurring deficits. That is a situation that cannot be tolerated indefinitely. Council's remedy for meeting this problem is twofold. First I stress the importance, nay necessity, for the Society's well-being, of securing the regular support of corporate and institutional subscribers. Several years ago, following an active campaign by our late Treasurer Mr G.A. Calver, a respectable list of corporate subscribers was built up, which did much to offset an earlier deficit. But such subscriptions are naturally not open-ended. As one covenant expires, effort is required to secure fresh donors. Our Treasurer is now embarked upon a new campaign to enlist corporate help. His first approaches have been most encouragingly received, and we have good hopes for the future. So it may happen that Fellows known for their standing with powerful corporations could be receiving requests from the Treasurer for introductions or recommendations. All I need say is that twenty five-year covenants for \pounds 500 per year would see us home and dry through the next quinquennium. So much then for what we need others to do for us. Now there is what we must do for ourselves. And here I have to broach the question of the Farquhar Albums. During the preparation of Mr Raymond Head's catalogue of the Society's paintings and drawings, the volumes of the Farquhar Albums, illustrating south-east Asian birds, fishes and plants, for many years on loan with the Natural History Museum, were recalled for photography and examination. At that time it was noticed that there was loosening of the bindings, which in library use would create a problem of security. The cost of satisfactory repairs was believed to be about \pounds 6,000. Council at this stage was faced with a dilemma. Either the albums could be returned to the Natural History Museum, in which case repairs ought to be put in hand. This was an obligation with which the Museum was in no position to help. Or they might be retained at the Society, in which case further expenditure would be required to provide secure and fireproof storage. Otherwise, in view of the quite substantial market value they were believed to possess, Council could proceed to a sale of the albums, and realize the proceeds. The position of the Farquhar Albums is rather different from other possessions of the Society formerly discussed in this connection. The Natural History of Asia is less closely linked now than in the past to the Society's principal interests. For decades, many members, including I am afraid myself, have been unaware even of the existence of these albums. I should be surprised if there were not members of the audience today who had never heard of them before this moment. Nowadays the interest of these albums is more artistic than scientific, and in their recent location they were rarely consulted. After discussion, Council agreed unanimously that a sale by auction should be put in hand. The intention is to place the proceeds in an endowment fund, invested to secure the fullest protection of capital. Income could then be applied to offsetting the Society's reemerging deficit. A reference to the Charity Commissioners has confirmed that the course proposed would raise no objection on their side, and that Council under the Charter has authority to decide the matter. Accordingly, instructions have been given to put in hand the sale of these albums, and it may be up to a year before they are actually sold. We plan, as in the case of the Rashid al-din manuscript, for an introductory brochure to be printed. While every member of Council regrets such deaccessioning, in present conditions this Society, lacking the resources of a public museum, can hardly finance custodianship of major national assets. At this stage we cannot closely guess what figure the Farquhar Albums are likely to realize. But the two lines of policy I outline, both successfully carried through, should guarantee our future for at least a decade, and in reasonable circumstances much longer." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Dominik Wujastyk Phone (and voice messages): +44 71 611 8467 Wellcome Institute, 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE. From WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU Wed Nov 10 05:00:59 1993 From: WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU (WITZEL at HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:00:59 -0500 Subject: Indian Legion in Europe during WWII Message-ID: <161227016292.23782.10018313088782485292.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> With regard to your query on material regarding the Indian Legion in Europe during WW II: Like many of my generation of Indologists I am fairly familiar with this as several of my by now octogenarian teachers were sent to the Legion as translators -- which in fact saved many of them for post-war Indology. The legion was, for the longest period, stationed near Bordeaux - "watching the Atlantic" for an Allied invasion, while our Indological colleagues practised their Hindi -- or in one case, gave a rousing speech at an inspection tour by visiting German general -- in fluent Turkish. He was impressed. For the rest, there is a lively oral tradition circulating among German Indologists regarding their exploits, such as visiting a French colleague and forgetting the gun when leaving, reading Sanskrit in the office (one of them had "always loved the Jaiminiya Brahmana", even before it was discovered by O'Flaherty!), shooting pigeons in the dunes, etc. But little on military engagements: there were none. Here are the two books I found: Azad Hind : ein europaisches Inder-Marchen oder die 1299 Tage der Indischen Legion in Europa : eine Chronik der "Indischen Legion", des (Indischen) Infanterie-Regiments 950 in der Deutschen Wehrmacht, nach Tagebucheintragungen eines Stabdolmetschers / hrsg. von Eugen Rose. Wuppertal : Bhaiband-Verl., 1989. 240 p. that is: "Azad Hind. A European Indian Fairy Tale or the 1299 days of the Indian Legion in Europe: a chronicle of the "Indian Legion", the (Indian) Infantry Regiment 950 of the German Armed Forces, according to diary notes of a staff translator / ed. by Eugen Rose" Hartog, Rudolf, 1924- Im Zeichen des Tigers : die Indische Legion auf deutscher Seite, 1941-1945. Herford : Busse Seewald, 1991. 232 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. = "Under the Sign of the Tiger: The Indian Legion [fighting] on the German side, 1941-1945". For the rest, you can of course write to the Armed Forces Archives, which are, I believe, located at Koblenz, Germany, -- or just write to the Ministry of Defense = Bundesverteidigungsministerium, Bonn, and ask for information. They should have the staff and the leisure to help you. Good Luck. -- M. Witzel >?From KHARE at csvaxe.csuohio.edu 10 93 Nov EST 01:18:00 Date: 10 Nov 93 01:18:00 EST From: Jitendra Khare Subject: RE: Indian Legion in Europe during WWII Herr M. Witzel- That's terrific! Just what i needed . Thank you very much! Jitendra Khare >?From magier at columbia.edu Wed Novermber 10 09:28:24 1993 Date: Wed, 10 Novermber 1993 09:28:24 -0500 From: David Magier Subject: Jain commercial life Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII A librarian colleague and I are intrigued by a comment in Tod's ANNALS AND ANTIQUITIES OF RAJASTHAN, which leads us to question the veracity of Tod with regard to details like this. In C. A. Bayly's RULERS, TOWNSMEN, AND BAZAARS: NORTH INDIAN SOCIETY IN THE AGE OF BRITISH EXPANSION, 1770-1870 (p.141), Bayly reports: "Jains were another sect which had an impact on town and commercial life quite out of proportion to their numbers - a mere 3-5 per cent in the towns of the west, dwindling to under 1 per cent in the east. Tod's Jain clerk estimated that Jain businessmen commanded half of the total commercial wealth which circulated between Rajasthan and the Bay of Bengal." Bayly cites ANNALS AND ANTIQUITIES . . . (London, 1920) II, pp. 603-4 for this. My colleague and I find the assertion of Tod's Jain clerk highly improbable. Does anyone on the net have any insights to this question? Other sources we should consult? Many thanks. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ ____________________________ 304 International Affairs /// -- David Magier -- \\\ Columbia University ||| Director, AREA STUDIES ||| New York, N.Y. 10027-7296 ||| S&SE Asia, Latin America, ||| 212-854-8046 / FAX: 212-854-2495 \\\ Mid-East, Slavic, Africa /// --------------------------- magier at columbia.edu From banks at vax.oxford.ac.uk Wed Nov 10 14:56:55 1993 From: banks at vax.oxford.ac.uk (banks at vax.oxford.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 14:56:55 +0000 Subject: Jain commercial life Message-ID: <161227016294.23782.5656979710074131982.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > Bayly: "Tod's Jain > clerk estimated that Jain businessmen commanded half of the total > commercial wealth which circulated between Rajasthan and the Bay of > Bengal." > >Bayly cites ANNALS AND ANTIQUITIES . . . (London, 1920) II, pp. 603-4 for >this. My colleague and I find the assertion of Tod's Jain clerk highly >improbable. Does anyone on the net have any insights to this question? Other >sources we should consult? Many thanks. I can't provide any sources at the moment, but it is certainly a remark with the ring of stereotype about it - I have read modern secondary sources citing older works which make exactly the same point about the Parsis in the early 19th century; indeed, in one case I was struck by the similarity of phrasing (I think Tod says something like 'half the wealth...passes through the hands...'). Marcus Banks, Oxford >?From mehta at kc235-2.mgmt.purdue.edu 10 1993 Nov U 10:26:55 Date: 10 Nov 1993 10:26:55 U From: "Mehta, Shailendra" Subject: RE: Jain commercial life There is one source which comes to mind immediately, and that is the paper by Devara, where he chronicles the fortunes of many commercial lineages. Here is the full reference: AUTHOR: Devara, Ji. Esa. Ela., 1944- TITLE: A rethinking on the politics of commercial society in pre -colonial India [microform] : transition from Mut Saddi to Marwari / by G.S.L. Devra. PUB. INFO: New Delhi : Nehru Memorial Museum and Library, 1987. DESCRIPTION: 87 p. ; 28 cm. SERIES: Occasional papers on history and society ; no. 38 SUBJECTS: *S1 Merchants--India. *S2 Marwaris. *S3 India--Economic conditions--1500-1765. Other than that the best sources would be the chronicles of the various jatis, but these would be in Hindi or Marwari and probably unavailable outside India, though I did see a few notices in the MLBD newsletter. I am sure that you have seen Timberg's book though, on the Marwaris, which should also have a lot of relevant material. But it is important to realize that the Jain dominance was not limited to the commercial field. Many of the Prime ministers (diwans) of the Rajput kingdoms were Jains. There is a Rajasthani saying to the effect that giving over the administration of a kingdom to a Rajput is to invite disaster. What is even more interesting is that many of the *army commanders* in Rajasthan were also Jains. This fact is not so surprising if one notes that many Jains in Rajasthan were converts from Rajput clans, and that many interpretations of Jainism allowed 'pratidrohi hinsa'. Shailendra Raj Mehta. From D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Thu Nov 11 16:23:08 1993 From: D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 16:23:08 +0000 Subject: New book on Sanskrit grammar Message-ID: <161227016295.23782.14012848217315473042.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Now available: Dominik Wujastyk, _Metarules of Paninian Grammar: The Vyadiyaparibhasavrtti, critically edited with translation and commentary_ (Groningen: Forsten, 1993). 2 vols. [Groningen Oriental Series, vol.V.] ISBN 90 6980 034 9. Price: Df 110. Available from Egbert Forsten, PO Box 6148, HC Groningen, the Netherlands, (Tel. 050 258185/259104) and all good bookshops near you. -- NB I am away from my office from November 11-22, visiting Madras and Chettinad. X400-Trace: DE*DBP*FU-BERLIN; arrival Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:41:19 +0100 action Relayed Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:41:19 +0100 Message-Id: <931112133622699-FUB*Harry.Falk at ALTERTUM.FU-BERLIN.DBP.DE> P1-Message-ID: DE*DBP*FU-BERLIN; 931112133622699-FUB UA-Content-ID: 931112133622699- From: Harry.Falk at ALTERTUM.FU-BERLIN.DBP.DE Subject: Kanada request To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk A student works on the sculpture panels in a cave near Badami. The cave is locally known as ara.liika.t.ti. Does anyone know what this term could denote? H Harry fu14zaxb at altertum.fu-berlin.d400.de X400-Trace: DE*DBP*FU-BERLIN; arrival Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:45:57 +0100 action Relayed Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:45:57 +0100 Message-Id: <931112134127101-FUB*Harry.Falk at ALTERTUM.FU-BERLIN.DBP.DE> P1-Message-ID: DE*DBP*FU-BERLIN; 931112134127101-FUB UA-Content-ID: 931112134127101- From: Harry.Falk at ALTERTUM.FU-BERLIN.DBP.DE Subject: New book To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk now available: Harry Falk: Schrift in Indien. Ein Forschungsbericht mit Anmerkungen. Tu:bingen: Gunter Narr Verlag, 1993. 355 pp; 136 DM ( (deals with the origins of Braahmii and khar.s.thii andd the circumstances of their or From dileep at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Fri Nov 12 15:17:38 1993 From: dileep at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (dileep s karanth) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 09:17:38 -0600 Subject: Book Review:"Negationism in India"-Part 1 Message-ID: <161227016297.23782.17444385823697005736.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: negationism1.a Type: application/octet-stream Size: 14779 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dileep at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Fri Nov 12 15:19:44 1993 From: dileep at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (dileep s karanth) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 09:19:44 -0600 Subject: Book Review:"Negationism in India"-Part 2 Message-ID: <161227016300.23782.11242617290789537811.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: negationism2.a Type: application/octet-stream Size: 11080 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ai927 at freenet.carleton.ca Fri Nov 12 19:46:49 1993 From: ai927 at freenet.carleton.ca (ai927 at freenet.carleton.ca) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 14:46:49 -0500 Subject: Harry Falk: Schrift in Indien Message-ID: <161227016303.23782.30495253775727347.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The posting for this was truncated somehow and my copy of it ends abruptly with . If there is significantly more information I would appreciate a re-posting. Is there an English version of the book? On that subject, I seem to recall that of the two scripts, Brahmi and Karosthi, one apparently could be connected in some way with Aramaic script in ancient times but could not easily be shown to be the ancestor of modern Indian scripts; and the other one was exactly the reverse, so that one could not really say with any certainty that modern Indian scripts are related to the Aramaic. I would appreciate it if anyone could throw any general light on this situation... I am not sure I have remembered it exactly... thank-you.... Noel Evans, ai927 at freenet.carleton.ca Original-Received: from cc:Mail by sceng.UB.com id AA753135303 Fri, 12 Nov 93 12:15:03 PST PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 12:15:03 PST From: Kishen_Bhagavan_at_Notes-Gate at sceng.UB.com Message-Id: <9310127531.AA753135303 at sceng.UB.com> To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Book Review:"Negationism in India"-Part 1 --1392523760-1598293433-753117567:#21572 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII --1392523760-1598293433-753117567:#21572 Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; name=negationism1 Content-ID: Content-Description: BOOK REVIEW: "NEGATIONISM IN INDIA - CONCEALING THE RECORD OF ISLAM" written by KOENRAAD ELST of Belgium; published by the VOICE OF INDIA, New Delhi, India; pp 176. Reviewer: A. Ghosh * * * (The author, Koenraad Elst (Leuven, 1959), a Belgian scholar, grew up in the Catholic community in Flanders. He studied at the famous Catholic University of Leuven and holds licentiate degrees (MA) in Chinese Studies, Indo-Iranian Studies and Philosophy. He studied Indian philosophy at the Benares Hindu University (BHU) and interviewed many Indian leaders and thinkers during his stay in India between 1988 and 1991. His publications include: (in Dutch) Language policy issues, Contemporary politics, Early History of Scientific Thought and Oriental Philosophies; (in English) The Ayodhya Issue, The General Relgio-political Situation in India. NEGATIONISM IN INDIA - CONCEALING THE RECORD OF ISLAM is his latest treatise on the subject.) * * * Negationism in Europe usually means the denial of the Nazi genocide of the Jews. India has its own brand of negationism. A section of the Indian intelligentsia, primarily led by Mohanlal Karamchand Gandhi and Jawaharlal Nehru during their life time, tried and is still trying to erase from the Hindus' memory the history of their persecution by the swordsmen of Islam. The number of victims of this persecution far exceeds that of the Nazi crimes primarily because it lasted much longer. The Islamic campaign to wipe out what they call Paganism or KUFR could not be equally thorough but it has continued for centuries without any moral doubts arising in the minds of the persecutors and their chroniclers. The Islamic reports on the massacres of Hindus, destruction of Hindu temples, the abduction of Hindu women and forced conversions invariably express great glee and pride. They leave no doubt that the destruction of Paganism by every means, was considered the Allah-ordained duty of the Moslem community or UMMA. Yet today many Indian historians, journalists and politicians, deny that there ever was a Hindu-Moslem conflict. They ignore the facts that led to the creation of Pakistan and Bangladesh, both Islamic theocracies. They shamelessly rewrite Indian history and talk of 'centuries of Hindu-Moslem amity'; now a growing section of the public in India and the West only knows their negationist version of history. EXTRACTS FROM THE CHAPTERS ON "HINDUS VS. MUSLIMS" AND "NEGATIONISM AND THE INDIAN NATIONAL CONGRESS": The Negationism regarding the Nazi crimes has been the object of much public discussion. Turkish negationism about the Armenian genocide has received some attention. Less well-known is that India has its own brand of negationism. Since about 1920 an effort has been going on in India to rewrite history and to deny the millenium-long conflict between Muslims and Hindus. Today, most politicians and English-writing intellectuals in India will go out of their way to condemn any public reference to this long and painful conflict in the strongest terms. They will go to any length to create the illusion of a history of 'communal amity' between Hindus and Muslims. Making people believe in a history of Hindu-Muslim amity in India is not an easy task: the number of victims of the persecution of Hindus by Muslims is of the same order of magnitude as that of the Nazi extermination policy, though no one has yet made the effort of tabulating the reported massacres and proposing a reasonable estimate of how many millions exactly must have died in the course of the Islamic campaign against Hinduism. On top of these, there is a similar number of abductions and deportation to harems and slave markets, as well as centuries of political oppression and cultural destruction. The American historian Will Durant summed it up like this: "The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within". Only off and on did this persecution have the intensity of a genocide, but it was sustained much longer and spread out much wider geographically than the Nazi massacre. Whereas the Germans, including most members of the Nazi party, were horrified at the Nazi crimes against humanity within a few years, the Moslems, for whom GOTT MIT UNS (or Allah with us) was not a slogan but a religious certainty, managed to keep a good conscience for centuries. We will encounter similarities as well as differences between Nazi and Islamic crimes against humanity, but the most striking difference is definitely the persistence with which Islamic persecutions have continued for 14 centuries. This is because it had more spine, a more powerful psychological grip on its adherents than Nazism. The ideological foundation of the Islamic campaign was similar to the Nazi ideology. The Muslim invaders (as we can read in numerous documents which they left us, from the Koran and the Hadis onward) distinguished between three kinds of people: first of all the Muslims, the HERRENVOLK (master nation) to which Allah had promised the world; secondly, the Jews and Christians, also sometimes called the AHL-I-KITAB (people of the book), who could live on under Muslim rule but only as third class citizens, just like the Slavic UNTERMENSCHEN (inferior people) in Hitler's new order; thirdly the species to be eliminated, the real Pagans who had to disappear from the face of the earth. Different from Hitler's victims, the non-combatants among the 'unbelievers' often got a chance to opt for conversion rather than death. What Mohammed (later emulated by his successors) wanted, was his recognition of Allah's final prophet, so he preferred people to live and give him this recognition (by pronouncing the Islamic creed or KALIMA, ie. converting), and only those who refused him this recognition, were to be killed. Still, conversion often came too late to save defeated Pagans from slavery. At this point, Mohammed deserves comparison with Stalin: unlike Hitler Stalin killed people not for their race but for their opinion. But one can hardly say that the one totalitarianism is better than the other. The BLITZ-KRIEG of the Muslim armies in the first decades after the birth of their religion had such enduring results precisely because the Pagan populations in West and central Asia had no choice (except death) but to convert. Whatever the converts' own resentment, their children grew up as Muslims and gradually identified with this religion. Within a few generations the initial resistance against this forcible conversion was forgotten, and these areas became HEIDENFREI (free from Pagans, cfr. JUDENFREI).In India it didn't go like that, because the Muslims needed five centuries of attempts at invasion before they could catch hold of large parts of India, and even then they encountered endless resistance, so that they often had to settle for a compromise. The Muslim conquests, down to the 16th century, were for the Hindus a pure struggle for life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and the populations massacred, with hundreds of thousands killed in every campaign, and similar numbers deported as slaves. Every new invader made (often literally) hills of Hindu skulls. Thus, the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000 was followed by the annihilation of the Hindu population; the region is still called the HINDU KUSH, i.e. "Hindu slaughter". The Bahmani sultans (1347- 1480 AD) in central India made it a rule to kill 100,000 Hindus every year. In 1399, Taimur killed 100,000 captives in a single day, and many more on other occasions. The conquest of the Vijayanagar empire in 1565 left large areas of Karnataka depopulated. And so on. But the Indian Pagans were far too numerous and never fully surrendered. What some call the "Muslim period" in Indian history, was in reality a continuous war of occupiers against resisters, in which the Muslim rulers were finally defeated in the 18th century. Against these rebellious Pagans the Muslim rulers preferred to avoid total confrontation, and to accept the compromise which the HANAFITE school (dominant in India) of Islamic law made possible. Alone among the four Islamic law schools, the HANAFITE school gave Muslim rulers the right not to offer the Pagans the sole choice between death and conversion, but to allow them toleration as ZIMMIS (protected ones) living under 20 humiliating conditions, and to collect the JIZYA (toleration tax) from them. Normally the ZIMMI status was only open to Jews and Christians (AHL-I-KITAB or peoples of the book); and even that concession was condemned by jurists of the HANABALITE school like IBN TAYMIYA, which explains why these communities have survived in Muslim countries while most other religions have not. On these conditions some of the higher Hindu castes could be found willing to collaborate, so that a more or less polity could be set up. Even then, the collaboration of the Rajputs with the Moghul rulers, or of the Kayasthas with the Nawab dynasty, only became a smooth arrangement when enlightened rulers like Akbar (whom orthodox Muslims consider an apostate) canceled these humiliating conditions and the JIZYA tax. It is because of the HANAFITE law that many Muslim rulers in India considered themselves exempted from the duty to continue the genocide of the Hindus (self-exemption for which they were persistently reprimanded by their MULLAHS). Moreover, the Turkish and Afghan invaders also fought each other, so they often had to ally themselves with accursed unbelievers against fellow Muslims. After the conquests, Islamic occupation gradually lost its character of a total campaign to destroy the Pagans. Many Muslim rulers preferred to enjoy the revenue from stable and prosperous kingdoms, and were content to extract the JIZYA tax, and to limit their conversion effort to material incentives and support to the missionary campaigns of SUFIS and MULLAHS (in fact, for less zealous rulers, the JIZYA was an incentive to discourage conversions, as these would mean a loss of revenue). Muslim violence would thenceforth be limited to crushing the numerous rebellions, destruction of temples and killing or humiliation of Brahmins, and occasional acts of terror by small bands of raiders. A left-over from this period is the North-Indian custom of celebrating weddings at midnight: this was a safety measure against Islamic sport of bride-catching. The last JIHAD against the Hindus before the full establishment of British rule was waged by Tipu Sultan in the beginning of the 19th century. In the rebellion of 1857, the near-defunct Muslim dynasties (Moghuls, Nawabs) tried to curry favor with their Hindu subjects and neighbors, in order to launch a joint effort to re- establish their rule. For instance, the Nawab promised to give the Hindus the Ramjanmabhoomi/Babari Masjid site back, in an effort to quench their anti-Muslim animosity and redirect their attention toward the new common enemy from Britian. THIS IS THE ONLY INSTANCE IN MODERN HISTORY WHEN MUSLIMS OFFERED CONCESSIONS TO THE HINDUS; AFTER THAT, ALL THE CONCESSIONS MADE FOR THE SAKE OF COMMUNAL HARMONY WERE A ONE-WAY TRAFFIC FROM HINDU TO MUSLIM. After the British had crushed the rebellion of 1857, the Indian Muslims fell into a state of depression, increasing backwardness due to their refusal of British education, and nostalgia for the past. As soon as the British drew them into the political process (founding of Muslim League in 1906) in order to use them as a counter-weight against the Indian National Congress, they immediately made heavy and hurtful demands on the Hindus, such as the unlimited right to slaughter cows; and they started working for political separation. First they obtained separate electorates where Muslim candidates would only have to please Muslim voters and later they would succeed in separating a Muslim state from India. By the twenties, they took to unscrupled use of muscle power in a big way, creating street riots and outright pogroms. If Hindus retaliated in kind, it was a welcome help in instilling the separate communal identity into the ordinary Muslim, who would have preferred to co-exist with his Hindu neighbors in peace. By creating riots and provoking retaliatory violence, the Muslim League managed to swing the vast majority of the Muslim electorate toward supporting its demand for the partition of India. The roughly 600,000 victims of the violence accompanying the Partition were the price which the Muslim League was willing to pay for its Islamic state of Pakistan (See MUSLIM LEAGUE ATTACK ON SIKHS AND HINDUS IN THE PUNJAB 1947 compiled by Gurbachan Singh Talib and published in 1950 by the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee. It has been reprinted by VOICE OF INDIA in 1991). While every Hindu and Muslim who took part in the violence is responsible for his own excesses, the over-all responsibility for this mass-slaughter lies squarely with the Muslim leadership. After independence, the Islamic persecution of Hindus has continued in different degrees of intensity, in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kashmir (as well as heavy discrimination in Malaysia). This is not the place for detailing those facts, which the international media have been ignoring completely. What may cut short all denials of this continued pestering of Hindus in Muslim states, are the resulting migration figures: in 1948, Hindus formed 23% of the population of Bangladesh (then East Pakistan), in 1971 the figure was down to 15% and today it stands at 10%. No journalist or human rights body goes in to ask the minority Hindus for their opinion about the treatment they get from the Muslim authorities and populations; but they vote with their feet. In the first months of 1990, the entire Hindu population (nearly a quarter million) was forcibly driven from the Kashmir Valley, which used to be advertised as a showpiece of communal harmony. Muslim newspapers and mosque loudspeakers had warned the Hindus to leave the valley or face bullets. It will be evident that the Hindu psyche has very little sympathy for Islam. Doing something about this was the chief motive for NEGATIONISM. (to be contd.) * * * Opinions and views of the readers most welcome. I will forward them to my friend A Ghosh. If anyone is interested in getting a copy of this book, send me an email. I will send you the address of a stockist. My email address is dileep at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu --1392523760-1598293433-753117567:#21572-- From rwl at emx.cc.utexas.edu Sun Nov 14 03:25:21 1993 From: rwl at emx.cc.utexas.edu (Richard Lariviere) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 93 21:25:21 -0600 Subject: Book Review:"Negationism in India"-Part 1 Message-ID: <161227016305.23782.17710587606650345814.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dom-- Is there any way to keep the sort of rancid pablum Mr. Karanth has sullied our screens with from re-appearing? Richard From SIDDHARTHV at delphi.com Sun Nov 14 23:30:52 1993 From: SIDDHARTHV at delphi.com (SIDDHARTHV at delphi.com) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 93 19:30:52 -0400 Subject: Vedic Studies Message-ID: <161227016314.23782.13695744437766560783.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Southern Asian Institute at Columbia University recently received several million dollars from the Uk-based Indian business house, the Hinudjas, in order to establish a "Dharam Hinduja Centre for Vedic Studies." This has evoked mixed feelings from the existing South Asian studeies faculty and students at Columbia who feel that not enough fundhing is being made available for South Asian history, anthropology, political science, economics, linguistics, philosophy, but only for what Orientalists traditionally consider worth studying about India, viz. religion, mysticism, etc. There was a meeting held recently of concerned students which I happened to attend, and the basic view that many expressed was that the move to establish the Centre was a fait accompli and that effort should be made to hire respected and critical scholars and not those who study the Vedas from a communal or orientalist standpoint. People had no objection to the study about the Vedas (which perosnally speaking is an understudied area) but wanted to know who were the scholars who done serious work on the Vedas, in terms of understanding their socio-economic context, their philosophical (as opposed to religious) contribution in terms of epistemology, cosmology, relationship of humans to nature and to each other, etc. During a series of conferences on Indian philosophy organised by the Association of Indian Progressive Study Groups (AIPSG) in 1990-1991, a number of issues were raised about the need to invigorate modern Indian philosophy and to rescue it from the clutches of orientalists and others who consider it synonymous with religion, especially Hinudism. In that context, I remember having heated discussions about why the Vedas should be treated more as philosophical texts rather than religious texts and one has to appreciate what problems were posed by the philosophers in the Vedic age and whether they were solved or not. There was an interesting speech on Darshan and the problems of modern Indian philosophy by Hardial Bains which I will post in due course, but in the meantime, would appreciate if anybody knows of serious Veda scholars whom I can then put in touch with the South Asian studies students and faculty at Columbia so that this multi-million dollar bonanza from the Hindujas doesn't go down the drain or into the political vote-banks of Congress (I) and BJP. ------------------- Posted by V. Siddharth Columbia University From ukxdijl at ucl.ac.uk Sun Nov 14 22:46:07 1993 From: ukxdijl at ucl.ac.uk (I. Julia Leslie) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 93 22:46:07 +0000 Subject: Book Review:"Negationism in India"-Part 1 Message-ID: <161227016307.23782.11637355771447896785.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In message Sun, 14 Nov 93 03:49:04 GMT, Richard Lariviere writes: > Dom-- > > Is there any way to keep the sort of rancid pablum Mr. Karanth has sullied > our screens with from re-appearing? This is just a note to inform the members of Indology that Dom (Wujastyk) is in India right now. He will be back late next Saturday (20th November) and will no doubt respond when he has recovered from jetlag. Julia Leslie ----- Julia Leslie (ijl) SOAS, University of London: +44 71 323 6296 From ukxdijl at ucl.ac.uk Sun Nov 14 22:46:54 1993 From: ukxdijl at ucl.ac.uk (I. Julia Leslie) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 93 22:46:54 +0000 Subject: New publication Message-ID: <161227016310.23782.2459781049634350864.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Just released: INSTITUTIONS AND IDEOLOGIES: A SOAS SOUTH ASIA READER edited by David Arnold and Peter Robb [Selected Papers on South Asia No. 10] London: Curzon Press ISBN 0 7007 0284 9 Paperback Price: 14 pounds 95 pence ISBN 0 7007 0283 0 Hardback Price ? Available direct from: Curzon Press Ltd, St John's Studios, Church Road, Richmond, Surrey TW9 2QA, UK. Blurb: This volume was prompted by a felt need for an introduction to South Asia, and also to the Centre of South Asian Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) in the University of London. ... The editors, helped by a wider committee, made a selection from among recent published works of internal staff-members of the Centre, of whom there are currently 47, their scholarship embracing languages and literatures, history, law and the social sciences. ... Here we focus on some institutions and ideologies - the state, an army, a political party, and religion, law, medicine, language, literature and political thought. Contributors: [Ideologies] Graham Chapman, Tuvia Gelblum, Julia Leslie, Christopher Shackle, Rupert Snell, Michael Hutt, William Radice, Giles Tillotson; [Institutions] Werner Menski, Michael Anderson, Burton Stein, Peter Robb, David Arnold, David Taylor, Terence J. Byres. Julia Leslie ----- Julia Leslie (ijl) SOAS, University of London: +44 71 323 6296 From ukxdijl at ucl.ac.uk Sun Nov 14 22:47:56 1993 From: ukxdijl at ucl.ac.uk (I. Julia Leslie) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 93 22:47:56 +0000 Subject: Spalding Visiting Fellowship Message-ID: <161227016312.23782.16731680111185729714.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> SPALDING VISITING FELLOWSHIPIN INDIAN RELIGION AT WOLFSON COLLEGE, OXFORD 1994-95 Applications are invited for the above Fellowship. Applicants should have had several years of research experience and hold a teaching or research position in an academic institution. Applicants are requested to submit a brief outline of the research they wish to carry out during the tenure of the Fellowship. The Spalding Fellow in Indian Religion will hold a Visiting Fellowship at Wolfson College. The Spalding Trust will make available an amount up to 3,674 pounds (subject to possible upward revision) to cover expenses of the Fellow in Oxford. The exact sum is at the discretion of the Spalding Trustees in the light of the personal circumstances of the Fellow and the date of taking up the Fellowship. The sum available will defray (in whole or in part) the cost of board and lodging, and other College dues. It is not possible to pay travel expenses. The College expects to be able to provide College accommodation for the Fellow (and, where relevant, a spouse and/or family) provided that application is made immediately after the election to the Fellowship. It is expected that the funds available will enable the Fellow to spend two terms in Oxford, a total (with intervening vacation) of about 22 weeks. The Fellow will be permitted to continue as a Fellow at his or her own expense after the money provided by the Spalding Trust has been used up, provided that the total length of the Fellowship shall not exceed one academic year. The Fellowship may be awarded for a shorter period than two terms (in which case the sum available would be reduced proportionately) provided that the Fellow undertakes to spend at least one full University term in Oxford. The closing date for applications, which should be addressed to the President, Wolfson College, Oxford OX2 6UD, UK, is 31 JANUARY 1994. Candidates should write themselves to their referees asking them to send references to the President without further request, to be received by 31 January 1994. Notice submitted by Julia Leslie ----- Julia Leslie (ijl) SOAS, University of London: +44 71 323 6296 From JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU Mon Nov 15 11:33:23 1993 From: JSHARMA at Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU (JSHARMA) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 11:33:23 +0000 Subject: Book Review:"Negationism in India"-Part 1 Message-ID: <161227016317.23782.17430198788722844913.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In message Sun, 14 Nov 93 03:49:04 GMT, Richard Lariviere writes: > > > Dom-- > > > > Is there any way to keep the sort of rancid pablum Mr. Karanth has sullied > > our screens with from re-appearing? Whereas Richard Lariviere has taken upon himself to speak for all on this network, he does not speak for me. I wish to thank Mr Karanth for making us aware of Elst's work, and and his interpretation of the historical dynamic leading to forces at work in Indian polity today. The statement by Mr Lariviere lends further credibility to the concept of negationism. Amongst scholars, discussion is based on rationale and not invective. It certainly would have been intellectually honest to put forth counter arguments; But to dismiss the systematic genocide of millions of Hindus over hundreds of years as "rancid pablum" and not worth discussion is an emotional statement. If this list indeed is for discussion of historical India, then the rancid occurence of the Islamic conquest comes with the historical baggage. When this event happened, there was no press, no human rights monitoring, and the story of these poor souls is largely unheard. If historical science is driven by a quest for truth, it is inevitable that these gaps be filled in. In this light the call for censorship by Mr Lariviere and the accompaning political correctness begs the reason.. why? One way postings of this nature can be avoided is to rename this forum as the "happy days "of Indian history, the other unfortunate occurings being classified as "rancid pablum' and not suitable for discussion. J.B. Sharma Assistant Professor of Physics Gainesville College From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu Mon Nov 15 16:55:21 1993 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (rrocher at sas.upenn.edu) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 11:55:21 -0500 Subject: Negationism Message-ID: <161227016319.23782.3658811513858286887.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Can we please screen out political messages, and keep this list scholarly? Rosane Rocher From dileep at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Mon Nov 15 18:39:06 1993 From: dileep at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (dileep s karanth) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 12:39:06 -0600 Subject: Negationism Message-ID: <161227016321.23782.11829671899912511379.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Mon, 15 Nov 1993, Rosane Rocher wrote: > Can we please screen out political messages, and keep this list > scholarly? > > Rosane Rocher Rosane, I was just sending you a book review. However I do agree that it was too long, and perhaps it was "political". While I do not like the idea of this kind of censorship, I will certainly refrain from posting this kind of stuff. The truth can wait. I am sure that once the political equations in India change, many future indology-netters will do their Ph.D on topics like this one. So these issues will come back, while we pretend they do not exist. Dileep S Karanth >?From JBBAPAT at ccs1.cc.monash.edu.au 16 93 Nov GMT+1000 08:20:58 Date: 16 Nov 93 08:20:58 GMT+1000 From: BAPAT JB Subject: Etymology of the word Devalaka Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The word Devalaka was applied to a Temple Priest in olden times. I have not seen it being used for any temple-priests these days. Does anyone know any priests in India these days who call themselves devalakas? Also can anyone suggest an etymology of this word? Jayant Bapat [jbbapat at ccs1.cc.monash.edu.au] ____________________________________________________________________ Dr J.B. Bapat Phone (03)565 4510 Chemistry Department Fax (03)565 4597 Monash University e-mailjbbapat at ccs1.monash.edu.au Wellington Road Clayton VICTORIA 3168 ___________________________________________________________________ From sgambhir at sas.upenn.edu Mon Nov 15 22:00:34 1993 From: sgambhir at sas.upenn.edu (sgambhir at sas.upenn.edu) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 17:00:34 -0500 Subject: Vedic Studies Message-ID: <161227016323.23782.9754272931941637794.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I find the reaction to the creation of the Vedic Institute at Columbia more political than academic. Personally I would like to see huge sums of money go to rural upliftment of India and other parts of the world, and for providing formal education to those who are deprived of it. This is, however, my view of the investment. If Mr. Hinduja chooses to invest his money for Vedic studies, I do not find any thing wrong with it. It is a pious act aimed at scholarly investigation and understanding of one of the richest heritages of the world. - S.Gambhir From MAILER-DAEMON at columbia.edu Tue Nov 16 03:02:42 1993 From: MAILER-DAEMON at columbia.edu (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 22:02:42 -0500 Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable Message-ID: <161227016326.23782.4342079397514172156.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- While talking to mail.liv.ac.uk: >>> DATA <<< 554 Syntactically invalid address for from field 'David Magier for John Hawley' 554 indology at liverpool.ac.uk... Service unavailable ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: by merhaba.cc.columbia.edu id AA15956 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for indology at liverpool.ac.uk); Mon, 15 Nov 1993 22:02:42 -0500 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 22:02:39 EST From: David Magier for John Hawley To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: re: Vedic Studies Message-Id: [[Posted for Prof. John S. Hawley]] In response to the posting by V. Siddharth dated 14 November on the Vedic Studies initiatives as Columbia, a brief clarification of the facts would seem to be in order. Mr. Siddharth is correct that there have been discussions between the Hinduja Foundation and Columbia University about the possible founding of a center in memory of Dharam Hinduja. Contrary to Mr. Siddharth's statements, however, these discussions are not complete, but still under way. The name, nature, teaching and research focus, and exact academic location of the proposed center are yet to be determined, as is any final agreement between the Foundation and the University. A separate but potentially related University Seminar on "The Veda and its Interpretation" has been instituted as of this fall. The Columbia University Seminars are a rubric under which scholars and professional people within reach of New York gather on a monthly basis to consider a range of topics -- from the Hebrew Bible to biodiversity -- in an interdisciplinary setting. The first two sessions of the new University Seminar on "The Veda and its Interpretation" featured papers by Prof. Wilhelm Halbfass (University of Pennsylvania) and Prof. Wendy Doniger (University of Chicago). The Seminar co-chairs are Dr. David Magier (magier at columbia.edu) and Prof. Laurie Patton (patton at levy.bard.edu). Brief reports on the first two meetings of the Seminar are available upon request from Mr. Timothy Lubin, Seminar Rapporteur, University Seminar on the Veda and its Interpretation, 606 Dodge Hall, Columbia University, New York, NY 10027, USA. John S. Hawley Director Southern Asian Institute, Columbia University From magier at columbia.edu Tue Nov 16 03:08:37 1993 From: magier at columbia.edu (David Magier) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 22:08:37 -0500 Subject: Univ. Seminar on the Veda Message-ID: <161227016328.23782.7490628020515843303.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Since it has already been mentioned in this group, we thought we would add a little more detail on Columbia University's new University Seminar on the Veda and Its Interpretation. As you may know, the University Seminars at Columbia have for fifty years served to open discussion between academics and other professionals in the greater New York area and beyond, on a variety of interdisciplinary topics. To the planners of this particular seminar, its inauguration seems quite timely. We have recently witnessed a very troubled period of Indian history that has had, as one of its outcomes, a series of more and less thoughtful re-definitions of what the term "Veda" should mean. In such a context, it is all the more important that the historical, scholarly perspective remain alive and engaged when polemics inform so much of the contemporary debate. The scholarly focus of the University Seminar on the Veda and Its Interpretation is on how the Vedic traditions have been defined and used within the course of Indian history. As presently conceived, it covers a wide variety of topics, including the textual analysis of the Vedic tradition "strictly defined" as the Samhitas and their Vedanga counterparts; the use of the term Veda in both ancient and contemporary traditions which are in direct dialogue with early forms of Vedic thought, such as Indian medicinal and mathematical systems; the use of the term Veda by those traditions which are not historically "Vedic" in origin, such as bhakti devotion; the questions of gender and Vedic authority in early, classical, colonial and post- colonial Indian history; the relationship between Vedic tradition and the historical, philosophical and religious claims of the later system of Vedanta, both in the classical and contemporary periods. The First Inaugural Lecture of the Seminar was presented last month by Prof. Wilhelm Halbfass (University of Pennsylvania), who spoke on "The Presence of the Veda in the History of Indian Thought." The Second Inaugural Lecture was presented this month by Prof. Wendy Doniger (University of Chicago), who presented a paper entitled "Are Translations of the Rig Veda Good to Think With?". Further sessions of the Seminar are now being planned. David Magier (magier at columbia.edu) Laurie Patton (patton @levy.bard.edu) Seminar Co-Chairs From SIDDHARTHV at delphi.com Tue Nov 16 07:11:08 1993 From: SIDDHARTHV at delphi.com (SIDDHARTHV at delphi.com) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 03:11:08 -0400 Subject: Clarification on Issue of Vedic Studies at Columbia University Message-ID: <161227016329.23782.13371576385775971844.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A Clarification on the issue of Vedic and Indic Studies ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Given the discussion that my innocuous query on Vedic scholars appears to have generated, I do wish to clarify certain issues and lay out the parameters of the discussion, the way I see it. At the outset, it should be clear that the issue I raised was a general one which had more to do with the problem of Orientalism in "Indic studies" than with the issue of Columbia University's proposed centre on Vedic studies. I am actually not very fami liar with the content of discussions between the Hinduja Foundation and Columbia University and thank Prof. Hawley and David Magier for clarifying where things stand. I am actually not directly involved in the discussion that some students and faculty members are carrying out on the whole issue either, but felt it was a useful context within which to articulate something which I have felt for a long time, namely the e xcessive attention paid, within "Indic studies", to religion. The way the issue presents itself is disarmingly straightforward: why do we assume that knowledge of Indian religion renders us better equipped to understand and deal with the problems of cont emporary India any more than British religion helps us understand the problems of Britain? In every other "area studies" field, especially "Western" areas, the study of philosophy, politics, sociology, anthropology, economics, philology, linguistics, lit erature, culture, etc. is considered far more important than religion. Hardly anyone will dispute that the point of all academic work on India is to reach a better understanding of the nature of the problems confronting Indian society today so as to cont ribute towards the solution of those problems. Of course, solutions have a theoretical and a practical side but what is of relevance here is the weakness of Indian theory at this time. You can have a Prime Minister who proves his "Indianness" by consulti ng an astrologer about the "auspicious time" to visit Bombay after January's communal pogroms but when it comes to problems of the polity, problems of the economy, he holds up the World Bank or South Korea as theoretical guides! This is a failing of Indi an theory and it is a failing of Indian philosophy. The ancient Indians, the Rig Vedic Indians and others gave rise to theories and solutions based on their own conditions. Philosophy, or Darshan, was for them something which lit a path, something which elaborated what relations human beings should have w ith each other, what relations human beings should have with nature. Are Indian philosophers today providing answers to us about what those relations should be? Darshan, to be true to itself, has to reveal the underlying relationship between human beings and nature and between humans themselves. It has to be responsible to both society and nature, without which there can be no human beings. Is Indian Philosophy, the way it is taught in India and abroad, equipping young philosophers to actually deal with these problems? Do they begin with things and phenomena coming out of today's India or are they merely dealing with the problems of a discourse, a "field" established by Colebrooke? After all, the conflation of religion and philosophy that he effected h as proved remarkably enduring. It has had a surprisingly long innings despite attempts by various philosophers (eg. Prof. Daya Krishna from Jaipur and the late Prof. Matilal from Oxford) to argue for a recovery of the philosophical from the religious/mys tical and for a clear demarcation between the two. Indian Philosophy, which is something which belongs to an entire people, is forced into a strait-jacket. To this day, Indian Philosophy is equated with Hinduism, the Vedas - one of the earliest philosoph ical works of humankind - are called "Hindu", and countless other impediments are placed in the way of our philosophy being able to flower. Often, the biggest fight one has to wage (and those of you who teach Indian philosophy know this) is to establish that Indian Philosophy EXISTS, that it is living, that it is developing! Often, however, when the possibility of Indian PHILOSOPHY is accepted, it is subjected to the imposition of an artificial dichotomy, viz. that between idealism and materialism. Indian philosophy has been described by all and sundry (from Colebrooke et. a l. through to Max Mueller to Radhakrishnan, Dasgupta, Hiriyanna and many others, especially modern scholars) to be strictly idealistic. Even those who wrote "left" critiques of this dominant view (eg. D.P. Chattopadhyaya, Sardesai etc.) never challenged the basic description of Indian Philosophy as religious, idealistic and spiritual. Finally, this "idealist" Indian philosophy is said to have reached its highest development in the Vedanta, and that too Sankara's Vedanta. Radhakrishnan can therefore impose on the "Nasadiya" (RV, X, 129 (6)) ["...But, after all, who knows, and who can say, Whence it all came, and how creation happened? The gods themselves were later than creation, So who knows truly whence it has arisen?] the interpretation that it "makes nature and spirit both aspects of the one Absolute ... According to this account the steps of creation, when translated into modern terms, are: (1) the Highest Absolute; (2) the bare self-consciousness, I am I; (3) the l imit of self-consciousness in the form of another..." Is modern Vedic Studies going to be serious about contributing to the development of Indian philosophy? Are the modern Vedic scholars prepared to problematise interpretations such as those of Max Mueller and Radhakrishan? Are they going to tell us why th e Vedic Indians produced literature and philosophy of the kind they did? Will Indic studies provide us with a modern historiography of the development of Indian philosophy and thought? What were the philosophical problems that the Rig Vedic Indians solve d and what did they not solve? At each stage in the development of Indian philosophy these questions have to be posed. What was the socio-economic millieu in which the Vedantists appeared? The Bhaktas and Sufis? Dara Shikoh, Bahadur Shah Zafar and Allama Iqbal? What bearing did society have on their philosophy and vice-versa? A sober evaluation has to be made because modern Indian philosophy and theory has to draw, in equal measure, from its tradition and from the conditions of modern India. And the tra dition of Indian philosophy is much more than some "mysticism" or religion. The study of the Vedas is a laudable and extremely important enterprise but first of all the Vedas have to be rescued from the clutches of the Orientalist, the priest and the politician. Whatever the three may produce, it is certainly not philosophy and theory. One of my biggest complaints (and, as you can see from the above, I have many!) is that progressive scholars looked at the Vedas (and indeed much of Indian philosophy) with disdain - as something "mystical" and "other-worldy" - as something irrel evant, and this has allowed politicians with decidedly malicious intentions to abuse and destroy a valuable part of our heritage. The Belgian Koenrad Elst is one such personality to whom all of you have been exposed and it is important that we vigorously defend Indian thought, Indian philosophy from becoming an appendage to the political campaigns of the BJP and Congress (I). I don't know if all the reasons why the Centre for Vedic Studies is being established are necessarily the same as I have sought to articulate above, but in any event, the Hinduja Foundation and Columbia University, particularly the Southern Asian Institu te and its director, Prof. Jack Hawley, can only be commended for creating the potential for a lot of exciting and important scholarly work to take place. One can only wish such a project well and hope that it breaks new ground. South Asian studies is so rely in need of a shot in the arm. V. Siddharth Lecturer in Economics, New York University siddharthv at delphi.com P.S. I am helping to organise an important conference at Columbia University on December 4th on "India one year after Ayodhya: Perpsectives on Democratic Renewal." On December 5th, we are organising a concert featuring the vocalist Smt. Lakshmi Shankar in order to draw attention to the demand that those who are organising and inciting acts of communal violence should be brought to justice. If you would like additional details, please contact me. When all is said and done, Narasimha Rao and L.K. Advani's adherence to so-called Indian values did not go so far as to ensure that all Indians, especially those of the Muslim faith, were given the protection to which they were entitled under law. Is thi s not a problem for our Vedic scholars? Is this not a problem for Indian philosophy? >?From THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV 16 1993 Nov GMT 15:37:15 Date: 16 Nov 1993 15:37:15 GMT From: ALLEN W THRASHER Subject: ARALIKATTI The word Aralikatti means a platform with Arali tree. I have not seen Badami Cave. Arali tree is worshipped by women to have children. Couple will install Stone serpents to worship around the bottom of this tree (sometimes 2 trees). Katti Katte, the platform, is used in small towns to settle disputes, jave meetings, etc. Shantha From l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no Wed Nov 17 11:35:47 1993 From: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no (l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 12:35:47 +0100 Subject: Unemployment policies Message-ID: <161227016331.23782.4562574737633537053.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To all collegues in EC contries: I have been corresponding with the Norwegian Ministry of Local Government and Labour about unemployments benefits to scholars who are out of work. The present policy of the ministry is take away the benefit if a scholar continues to work on a research project, in spite of the fact that he does not make any money on it. Norway is now entering into membership negotiations with the EEC. I would therefore like to know how the authorities of EC countries behave in this respect. Are unemployed EC scholars able to continue their research activities (provided they do not make money on them) without loosing their unemployment benefit? If they are, I may open fire on the Ministry of Local Government once again! Best regards, Lars Martin Fosse Lars Martin Fosse Department of East European and Oriental Studies P. O. Box 1030, Blindern N-0315 OSLO Norway Tel: +47 22 85 68 48 Fax: +47 22 85 41 40 E-mail: l.m.fosse at easteur-orient.uio.no From rsa002 at central1.lancaster.ac.uk Thu Nov 18 16:45:38 1993 From: rsa002 at central1.lancaster.ac.uk (Prof J Clayton) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 16:45:38 +0000 Subject: New Chair Message-ID: <161227016333.23782.18179122341173382301.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> NEW CHAIR IN RELIGIOUS STUDIES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF LANCASTER In addition to the new lectureship in Buddhist Studies previously announced on this network, a new Chair in Religious Studies at Lancaster University is shortly to be advertised. Brief details follow. Further particulars will be sent on request. Nominations or enquiries may be addressed in the first in- stance to: Professor John Clayton Tel: (0524) 592413 Head of Department Fax: (0524) 847039 Dept of Religious Studies J.Clayton at lancaster.ac.uk Lancaster University Lancaster, England LA1 4YG APPLICATIONS ARE INVITED FROM ESTABLISHED SCHOLARS for appointment to a Chair in Religious Studies at the University of Lancaster. Candidates with an out- standing record of research and publication in any branch of the academic study of religion will be considered, but preference will be given to candidates who are able to contribute to the Department's research focus on religion in the modern world. It is expected that candidates will have expertise in one or more religious traditions, Eastern or Western, and that they will be engaged in contemporary debates about the nature and role of religion in the modern world, whether from the perspective of the humanities or the social sciences. The Department expects all its members to uphold its reputation as a leading centre for teaching and research in the academic study of religion. In addi- tion, professorial members of the Department are expected to provide intellec- tual leadership in their areas of academic expertise. The appointment carries with it no specific administrative responsibility, but the person appointed will be expected to take a share in the normal administrative tasks of the De- partment. The University is an equal opportunity employer. From giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it Thu Nov 18 21:58:40 1993 From: giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it (carlo della casa) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 22:58:40 +0100 Subject: Sanskrit and translation studies Message-ID: <161227016335.23782.5692388765678504014.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would like to know if there is any specific bibliography on the subject of Sanskrit and translation studies, in other words if anyone has critically ana- lysed or discussed the very special aspects involved in the translation of Sanskrit, especially epic and kavya, in modern European languages. The area of translation studies does indeed include poetic translation among its subsets, althoug though I must confess my own bibliography stops with de Beaugrande; and I was just wondering whether anyone has ever tackled this re. Sanskrit. Sorry if this note looks tautological, but I haven't yet discovered how to al- ter lines that have already been written. Alex Passi giuseppe at imiucca.csi.unimi.it >?From THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV 18 1993 Nov GMT 18:48:18 Date: 18 Nov 1993 18:48:18 GMT From: "MAIL.SEANETL1" Subject: NSEP ------------------------------------ AUTHOR: MAIL.SEANETL1 ------------------------------------ MHS: Source date is: 18-Nov-93 12:27 EDT [also posted to SEASIA-L; please forward to appropriate newsgroups and individuals] FYI: The National Security Education Program (NSEP) is due to begin implementing pilot programs in 1994 in the following 3 areas: 1) undergraduate scholarships to allow U.S. citizens to pursue serious study abroad in "critical world areas" defined as countries outside the U.S. except for Canada and Western Europe. contact info: Institute of International Education 1400 K Street, N.W. Washington, DC 20006 tel: 202-962-8835 fax: 202-962-8834 2) graduate fellowships to encourage U.S. citizens enrolled in or admitted to graduate programs in U.S. institutions of higher learning to develop expertise in the languages and area studies or less commonly studied countries. Two types of fellowships are available: a) for doctoral candidates to study critical foreign languages, disciplines, or areas which will strengthen the national capacity in international education; b) for students in professional and scientific disciplines to offer serious opportunities to internationalize their educational experience. contact info: Academy for Educational Development 1255 23rd Street, N.W. Suite 400 Washington, DC 20037 tel: 800-498-9360 or 202-833-7600 fax: 202-467-8755 3) institutional grants to assist U.S. college and universities in strengthening their institutional capabilities toward a national capacity in foreign languages, area studies, and international fields. contact info: National Security Education Program P.O. Box 47103 Washington, DC 20050-7103 tel: 703-696-1991 fax: 703-696-5667 I believe $10 million has been allocated for 1994 with following years to be funded from the interest from the $120 million NSEP Trust Fund. A letter from the NSEP Office was sent out in late October to college and university presidents asking that a NSEP Representative be named on every campus to screen and sign off on each student application. This, I believe, mirrors the current administration of the Fulbright awards. I encourage everyone to inquire about this new source of funding since NSEP seems tailor made for students and scholars of Southeast Asia. Andy Shaw CIEE 565-2132 at mcimail.com From SENS at fasecon.econ.nyu.edu Sun Nov 21 08:18:35 1993 From: SENS at fasecon.econ.nyu.edu (Sunando Sen) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 03:18:35 -0500 Subject: Book Review:"Negationism in India"-Part 1 Message-ID: <161227016341.23782.7042020374538517086.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) writes: > On Nov 14, 3:43am, Richard Lariviere wrote: > > > Is there any way to keep the sort of rancid pablum Mr. Karanth has sullied > > our screens with from re-appearing? > > I'm afraid not, at the moment, Richard. Freedom of speech and all > that. I haven't checked whether Karanth is actually a subscribed > member of the list but, as I understand it, anyone can post > mail to INDOLOGY and it will be distributed to members. I don't think > this is what we really want; people should at least have to subscribe > before being able to distribute messages. And I gather that the next > version of unix-LISTSERV -- 6 -- enables us to protect the group more, > along these lines. But we have to wait until the Liverpool team > (thanks lads!) install the new version. But still, anybody can subscribe to the list. > Another possibility would be for INDOLOGY to become a moderated list, > i.e., the heavy hand of an editor would fall upon all messages before > distribution (and perhaps combine batches of messages into a single > bulletin). But I don't have time to do this, and I don't think our > volume justifies it. > > I know it is annoying to have one's mailbox flooded with unwanted > stuff, but for the present I'm afraid that it's the price paid for > receiving a lot of other, more interesting, messages. > > 'Just say "Delete".' :-) It is possible to filter out messages if it contains one or more occurances of certain strings, such as: 1. Konrad Elst 2. P.N. Oak 3. Subhash Kak 4. Negationism 5. Golwalkar 6. Babri 7. Ram Janambhumi And so on... > One more thing: Yesterday I returned from Madras, where I had a number > of fascinating discussions about anti-brahmin feelings, about language > controversies, learned about new anti-fundamentalist organizations, and > so on. I am sure that others have had similar experiences. It is > clear that India (or at least the subset of people I met in Madras) is > going through a period of great intellectual ferment and > self-examination. There is a lot of uncritical and dangerous > balderdash in circulation, but I think we ignore it at our peril. I > was particularly glad to find that some middle-class Indians are > actively forming groups to counter some of these ideas, however > tiresome it may be for them to have to do this. Although these issues > are not the bread-and-butter (chapatti-and-ghee?) of INDOLOGY it > probably does little harm to be reminded of them by the occasional > irruption. If you went to Madras, it should have been butter-milk and rice, rather than chapatti and ghee! In any case, I would be very grateful if you care to summarise your experience in Madras. It would certainly be a refreshing change from the usual shop talk one sees here. Incidentally, I am glad that you found out that `some middle-class Indians are actively forming groups' to counter communalism. The fact is, there always were groups of individuals who faught communalism, and sometimes paid for their conviction with their lives. There are many grassroots organisations whose works are seldom reported in New York Times, but they do exist. I am sorry if all this has nothing to do with Panini and Truetype Devnagari fonts, but I hope you will understand the anguish one has to go through when one sees one country literally torn apart by a bunch of... [I daren't write anymore] Sunando Sen From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Sun Nov 21 06:17:26 1993 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 06:17:26 +0000 Subject: Book Review:"Negationism in India"-Part 1 Message-ID: <161227016337.23782.3739904487286804284.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Nov 14, 3:43am, Richard Lariviere wrote: > Is there any way to keep the sort of rancid pablum Mr. Karanth has sullied > our screens with from re-appearing? I'm afraid not, at the moment, Richard. Freedom of speech and all that. I haven't checked whether Karanth is actually a subscribed member of the list but, as I understand it, anyone can post mail to INDOLOGY and it will be distributed to members. I don't think this is what we really want; people should at least have to subscribe before being able to distribute messages. And I gather that the next version of unix-LISTSERV -- 6 -- enables us to protect the group more, along these lines. But we have to wait until the Liverpool team (thanks lads!) install the new version. Another possibility would be for INDOLOGY to become a moderated list, i.e., the heavy hand of an editor would fall upon all messages before distribution (and perhaps combine batches of messages into a single bulletin). But I don't have time to do this, and I don't think our volume justifies it. I know it is annoying to have one's mailbox flooded with unwanted stuff, but for the present I'm afraid that it's the price paid for receiving a lot of other, more interesting, messages. 'Just say "Delete".' :-) One more thing: Yesterday I returned from Madras, where I had a number of fascinating discussions about anti-brahmin feelings, about language controversies, learned about new anti-fundamentalist organizations, and so on. I am sure that others have had similar experiences. It is clear that India (or at least the subset of people I met in Madras) is going through a period of great intellectual ferment and self-examination. There is a lot of uncritical and dangerous balderdash in circulation, but I think we ignore it at our peril. I was particularly glad to find that some middle-class Indians are actively forming groups to counter some of these ideas, however tiresome it may be for them to have to do this. Although these issues are not the bread-and-butter (chapatti-and-ghee?) of INDOLOGY it probably does little harm to be reminded of them by the occasional irruption. Dominik From ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk Sun Nov 21 07:18:20 1993 From: ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk (ucgadkw at ucl.ac.uk) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 07:18:20 +0000 Subject: Sanskrit and translation studies Message-ID: <161227016339.23782.10152237797371913171.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Nov 18, 10:02pm, carlo della casa wrote: > I would like to know if there is any specific bibliography on the subject of > Sanskrit and translation studies, in other words if anyone has critically ana- > lysed or discussed the very special aspects involved in the translation of > Sanskrit, especially epic and kavya, in modern European languages. I make some very brief remarks on translation in my recent book Metarules of Paninian Grammar (Groningen: Forsten, 1993), vol. 2, pp. xxix, xxx. My remarks are about technical translation (vyakarana), not literary translation, though. A conference on translation from Indian languages into English has just taken place this last week in London. A large number of active creative writers and translators from India and elsewhere attended; I met Girish Karnad last night: he was at the meeting and said it had been very stimulating and well-attended. Contact Julia Leslie (j.leslie at ucl.ac.uk) from more information. Dominik From SIDDHARTHV at delphi.com Sun Nov 21 17:18:53 1993 From: SIDDHARTHV at delphi.com (SIDDHARTHV at delphi.com) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 13:18:53 -0400 Subject: Book Review:"Negationism in India"-Part 1 Message-ID: <161227016343.23782.10566451382012080112.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Since the issue has been raised.... For those of you who will be in New York City from December 4 to December 6, we have a number of events where communal violence and hatred will be opposed: [I] December 4, 1993 (10 am - 6 pm) AIPSG Conference: One Year After Ayodhya - PERSPECTIVES ON DEMOCRATIC RENEWAL A number of South Asian activists and academics will be speaking. Venue: 501 Schmerhorn, Columbia University (Sponsored by the Association of Indian Progressive Study Groups) [II] December 5, 1993 2 PM: Opening of exhibition, "Hum Sab Ayodhya" (We are all Ayodhya) by SAHMAT ( Safdar Hashmir Memorial Trust) accompanied by readings by prominent Indian authors like Amitav Ghosh, Shashi Tharoor, etc. 6 PM: Concert to Celebrate Unity of People against Communal Violence featuring the renowned vocalist, Smt. Lakshmi Shankar, as well as danseuses Indrani Rahman and Ritha Devi. Tickets: $10 (adults); $6 (students) Venue for both: Altschul Auditorium, Columbia University [III] December 6, 1993 12-3 PM: Demonstration outside Indian Consulate, 5th ave & 64th St. To demand that all those responsible for inciting and organising communal violence be tried and punished and that the rule of law not be subverted. 4 PM: Panel discussion on controversy generated by Artists against Communalism exhibit of Sahmat, featuring Ram Rahman, etc. Venue: Dag Hammarskjod Lounge, Columbia University, International Affairs Building [sponsored by Southern Asian Institute] ---------------------------------------- So there you have it! For more information, send e-mail to siddharthv at delphi.com or phone Siddharth at (212) 749-5719 P.S. - I am not in favour of filtering out the communal stuff. They should, however, be rebutted. From LIGI355 at utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Mon Nov 22 00:43:15 1993 From: LIGI355 at utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Bob King - ligi355@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 18:43:15 -0600 Subject: Book Review:"Negationism in India"-Part 1 Message-ID: <161227016345.23782.10572909002766476890.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I must say I'm not terribly upset by the occasional 'irruption' of which Dominik spoke. I mean, one does grow so tired of fonts and all the fine points. I find it useful to keep the middle finger of my left hand near the -d-. Robert D. King >?From magier at columbia.edu Mon Novermber 22 13:20:30 1993 Date: Mon, 22 Novermber 1993 13:20:30 -0500 From: David Magier Subject: article on Rajasthan history Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII For Rajasthanwallah's on the net: I've spotted a new and very interesting article that you might not run into in the normal course of info browsing: "Conversion to Islam and formation of castes in Medieval Rajasthan," by S. Inayat A. Zaidi and Sunita A. Zaidi (Dept. of History, Jamia Millia Islamia, New Delhi), IN Ahsan J. Qaisar (ed.) ART AND CULTURE: FELICITATION VOLUME IN HONOR OF PROFESSOR S. NURUL HASAN, Jaipur: Publication Scheme, 1993. Pp.27-42. (I hope those not interested in Rajasthan do not mind my posting this bibliographic notice to this group). -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ ____________________________ 304 International Affairs /// -- David Magier -- \\\ Columbia University ||| Director, AREA STUDIES ||| New York, N.Y. 10027-7296 ||| S&SE Asia, Latin America, ||| 212-854-8046 / FAX: 212-854-2495 \\\ Mid-East, Slavic, Africa /// --------------------------- magier at columbia.edu Original-Received: from DialupEudora (cc-tip-1.uchicago.edu) by midway.uchicago.edu for indology at liverpool.ac.uk Mon, 22 Nov 93 19:39:24 CST PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 19:39:21 CST Message-Id: <9311230139.AA17893 at midway.uchicago.edu> To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk From: Sheldon Pollock X-Sender: tasi at midway.uchicago.edu Subject: Re: NSEP A recent communication copied to the Indology network five days ago, > > FYI: The National Security Education Program (NSEP) is due to > begin implementing pilot programs in 1994 . . . has just been called to my attention. I reluctantly take up space on the network to respond, and I will be brief. It is imperative that U.S. faculty advisers and their graduate and undergraduate students be informed of the controversy the NSEP has provoked since it was first proposed two years ago. This program for study and research abroad is under the jurisdiction of the Intelligence committees of the U.S. Congress and is administered in the Department of Defense (via various pass-through organizations); the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency is a statutory member of the program's Board. A large number of area study and professional organizations (including the American Council of Learned Societies, the American Institute of Indian Studies, the Middle East Studies Association, the Latin American Studies Association, the African Studies Association) have publicly expressed serious concerns about this link--a dangerous and historically unprecedented link--between the military/intelligence establishment and area studies. They believe that students trained under the auspices of NSEP will be seen abroad as agents of this establishment, and may therefore be put in jeopardy. Many of these professional groups have accordingly advised their members not to participate in the NSEP so long as it is located where it is and structured as it is. Efforts are in fact under way to relocate and restructure the program. Vice President Gore's National Performance Review Committee recommended in September that the NSEP be consolidated with the Center for International Education in the Department of Education, where it properly belongs. No action is expected on this recommendation for some months. Given these considerations, for the NSEP to go forward, as now appears to be the case, is unconscionable in the eyes of many U.S. area studies scholars. An informational packet on the NSEP is being prepared by members of the Joint Committee on South Asia of the Social Science Research Council. I will be happy to provide this to interested parties. Study abroad advisers, applicants, and their mentors deserve to know the potential risks that the NSEP in its present form carries with it. Sheldon Pollock, Chairman Dept. of South Asian Languages and Civilizations University of Chicago 1130 E. 59th St. Chicago, IL 60637-1543 (fax: 312-702-9861) From C.Wooff at liverpool.ac.uk Tue Nov 23 12:52:49 1993 From: C.Wooff at liverpool.ac.uk (Chris Wooff) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 12:52:49 +0000 Subject: Disk quota Message-ID: <161227016347.23782.2195910955426751558.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I administer the Indology list. All rejected mail which can't get delivered to any of you gets sent back to me so that I am aware of possible problems. I'm getting a lot of mail rejected by sites which implement 'quotas' on their systems. This means that the site rejects all mail messages to users whose mailbox size exceeds some locally defined limit. If you are at one of these sites then can you please try to ensure that you leave sufficient space for incoming mail. By talking to your local Computer Centre staff you may even be able to have this limit increased. The consequences of doing nothing are that *any* mail to you (not just from Indology) will not be delivered. In addition by addressing problems with your quotas you will help reduce the cost of managing the Indology list. Thank you for reading this message. Chris Wooff (C.Wooff at liverpool.ac.uk) >?From magier at columbia.edu Tue Novermber 23 12:00:38 1993 Date: Tue, 23 Novermber 1993 12:00:38 -0500 From: David Magier Subject: Re: NSEP Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII > An informational packet on the NSEP is being prepared by > members of the Joint Committee on South Asia of the > Social Science Research Council. I will be happy to > provide this to interested parties. Study abroad > advisers, applicants, and their mentors deserve to know > the potential risks that the NSEP in its present form > carries with it. Thanks to Prof. Pollock for the clarifications on the NSEP. As an Area Studies librarian, I would welcome any comments or reactions from list readers with regard to the inherent risks (as against the potential benefits) of seeking and using NSEP-type funding (i.e. funding explicitly originating in military/intelligence arms of the government) for the specific purpose of developing good area studies LIBRARY COLLECTIONS (as opposed to the study-abroad activities Prof. Pollock mentions). The description posted earlier included one category of NSEP funding, reproduced below, which would seem to include activities in the area of library development. > 3) institutional grants to assist U.S. college and universities > in strengthening their institutional capabilities toward a > national capacity in foreign languages, area studies, and > international fields. In pursuing such questions, I would be happy to help distribute to South Asia (and other area studies) librarians the informational packet on the NSEP being prepared by members of the Joint Committee on South Asia of the SSRC, if Prof. Pollock thinks it is appropriate and will provide a copy to me. Many thanks. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ ____________________________ 304 International Affairs /// -- David Magier -- \\\ Columbia University ||| Director, AREA STUDIES ||| New York, N.Y. 10027-7296 ||| S&SE Asia, Latin America, ||| 212-854-8046 / FAX: 212-854-2495 \\\ Mid-East, Slavic, Africa /// --------------------------- magier at columbia.edu Original-Received: from cc-tip-1.uchicago.edu by midway.uchicago.edu for indology at liverpool.ac.uk Tue, 23 Nov 93 21:50:46 CST PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 21:50:46 CST Message-Id: <9311240350.AB02480 at midway.uchicago.edu> To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk From: Sheldon Pollock X-Sender: tasi at midway.uchicago.edu Subject: Re: NSEP Thanks for your message. I will indeed provide you with the materials as soon as we can get them ready. The JCSA of the SSRC has just concluded its semi-annual meeting, and we are only now returning to our campuses; this and the upcoming holiday will slow us down, alas. I am hoping we can have materials available by the week of the 6th at the latest. I leave for India on the 9th, and if you haven't heard from me before then, please be in contact with Professor James Boyce, Dept. of Economics, UMass, Amherst, MA (no email, or at least I don't have it yet). David Ludden (DLUDDEN at PENNSAS.UPENN.EDU) will also know what is going on. One additional person to keep in mind for further information is David Szanton, Executive Director of International and Area Studies, UC Berkeley (tel. 510-642-5284; you might try emailing him through ias at uclink.berkeley.edu, though that is NOT his personal address), who is organizing a California-wide effort to oppose participation in the NSEP. The program you specifically call attention to is unknown to me. This was not part of any earlier formulation of the program, and may be flash to obscure the troubles with the rest of the package; I would have serious doubts that it will enable library acquisitions. At all events, my prima facie view of the matter is that *any* link between area studies and DOD/CIA is deadly and should be avoided. Thanks for your interest. I'll be in touch soon. Sheldon Pollock From suresh at WPI.EDU Tue Nov 23 19:46:31 1993 From: suresh at WPI.EDU (Suresh Madhu) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 14:46:31 -0500 Subject: history of Indian astronomy/astrology Message-ID: <161227016349.23782.15254604967767827282.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Some of you might have already got a mail from me personally requesting references on the subject of history of Indian astronomy/astrology. I would like to add that I already used the ISIS bibliographies which have provided me with some resources necessary for my study. What I am looking for is a perspective different from that of David Pingree! And also, some material that treats the matter more from the Astrology side rather than Astronomy/Mathematics side. Most of the references I already have is for the latter. Also, do you know of any sites/archives which would have english translations of the primary sources that you think could be of help to me? :-) Thanks again -- Suresh Madhu From ridgeway at blackbox.hacc.washington.edu Wed Nov 24 00:11:11 1993 From: ridgeway at blackbox.hacc.washington.edu (Thomas B. Ridgeway) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 17:11:11 -0700 Subject: new series of Romanized Indic fonts available Message-ID: <161227016350.23782.13997017995591422856.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> November 23 A new series of Romanized Indic fonts are now available for ftp on blackbox.hacc.washington.edu in pub/indic/outlines. Below is an excerpt from the information file UPDATES in that directory: *********************************** The HACCINDC and HACCNDC* files are truetype and type1 versions of Romanized Indic. They are based on Bitstream Charter, using the fonts donated by Bitstream to the X-consortium. These are in a DIFFERENT ENCODING, not corresponding to IASS or any other standard, but standing as a modification of the encoding used in Adobe Standard Encoding/Windows ANSI encoding. The type1 fonts identify themselves as being in a font-specific encoding, and use the real names for their characters (well, I made up the names for some). The truetype characters lie about who they are in the case of the indic characters; the font pretends to be any old ANSI encoded font. The hinting on both series of these fonts is probably rather better than the existing wnri* series. NOTE that these are copyrighted fonts. You are permitted to take and use copies of these fonts for the purpose of testing and evaluating them up until June 30, 1994. Your permission to use these fonts will expire at that time. We expect to make these and other resources available on very generous (closely resembling free) terms, but have not entirely settled the matter as yet, hence the current limited license. You may redistribute copies of these fonts provided that copies of this notice accompany the fonts, and the copyright notices in the fonts are maintained intact. ************************************************************ I regret to say that I am just too busy to respond to non-technical queries as to how to use these fonts; please get in touch with the computer support people at YOUR institution for how to install fonts, what software is compatible with truetype or type1, how to ftp files and so forth. I am, of course, quite interested in any remedying any faults or implementing any improvements you may care to suggest; for that purpose you may write me directly or through the list. cheers, Tom -- From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca Wed Nov 24 23:23:14 1993 From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 15:23:14 -0800 Subject: Academic position available Message-ID: <161227016353.23782.9117868514574095388.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Department of Asian Studies at the University of British Columbia, where I teach, has recently been permitted by UBC authorities to circulate the following notice about the availability of a position in South Asian history. Copies of the notice have probably already gone to university departments and centres that are strong in South Asian studies. However, to give it wider publicity I am putting it on the Indology network. Please bring it to the attention of as many colleagues and potential applicants as you think would be appropriate. The position being advertised is intended as a partial replacement for the two historians of South Asia who retired from my department in the last three years. It should not be seen as a replacement for the second position of a Sanskritist we had in the form of Dr. Karin Preisendanz, who has, as was revealed on the Indology network sometime ago, moved to Hamburg. The efforts to retain the Hinduism-Buddhism-Sanskrit position that Dr. Preisendanz held have not so far been successful. Given the financial squeeze that all universities are facing, it should be counted as a blessing that we have at least not been told that that position is gone forever. The notice reproduced below does not speak in terms of period specialization. The mandate of the Department of Asian Studies, in which the position will be located, has, however, traditionally been understood to be language, literature and pre-modern history. The modern history positions are generally located in the Dept. of History at UBC, and the modern period is understood to begin at about 1840-1850 A.D. Although the notice specifies at the end that it "is directed to Canadian citizens and permanent residents", the specification is not understood to mean that those who are not Canadian citizens or permanent residents of Canada should not apply. The specification simply requires that Canadian applications should be considered first and should be given fair consideration. Please note that the individual to whom applications (and inquiries) should be directed is not myself. -- Ashok Aklujkar POSITION IN SOUTH ASIAN HISTORY Applications are invited for a tenure-track Assistant Professor in the cultural or social history of South Asia. The candidate should be capable of teaching undergraduate courses on a variety of periods. Course load will typically consist of: Introduction to South Asia (a broad first-year civilization course); one undergraduate course on South Asian history; and one course, graduate or undergraduate, in the candidate's area of specialization. Qualifications should include: a Ph.D. in hand at time of appointment; a command of at least one South Asian language; and a demonstrated commitment to teaching and research. Teaching experience at a North American university is desirable. Salary is commensurate with qualifications and experience. Appointments may be considered at a higher rank for a woman with exceptional qualifications. The appointment is subject to budgetary approval. The University of British Columbia welcomes all qualified applicants, especially women, aboriginal people, visible minorities, and persons with disabilities. Candidates should send a complete curriculum vitae, copies of important publications or unpublished manuscripts, and the names and addresses of at least three referees to Professor Michael S. Duke, Head, Department of Asian Studies, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. The deadline for receipt of applications is February 1, 1994. In accordance with Canadian Immigration requirements this advertisement is directed to Canadian citizens and permanent residents. 93.10.28. From Subra_Suresh.stu at rxg.xerox.com Fri Nov 26 14:35:01 1993 From: Subra_Suresh.stu at rxg.xerox.com (Subra_Suresh.stu at rxg.xerox.com) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 93 06:35:01 -0800 Subject: Betr: Unresolvable mail address Message-ID: <161227016357.23782.16553248131132068557.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> From Subra_Suresh.stu at rxg.xerox.com Fri Nov 26 14:35:41 1993 From: Subra_Suresh.stu at rxg.xerox.com (Subra_Suresh.stu at rxg.xerox.com) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 93 06:35:41 -0800 Subject: Betr: Message-ID: <161227016358.23782.14731780960057176391.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello, Would you please provide me more details about studies on indology and indian history. Daughter of my friend is studying indology in Heidelberg. Some e-mail and snailmail (paper mail) contact addresses will also help. Thanks in advance Regards From rozehnal at praha1.ff.cuni.cz Fri Nov 26 12:52:10 1993 From: rozehnal at praha1.ff.cuni.cz (rozehnal at praha1.ff.cuni.cz) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 93 13:52:10 +0100 Subject: Dhammapada Message-ID: <161227016355.23782.8242592062083139206.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In the present time I am occupied by critical translation of the Dhammapada. I would like to take also the Gandhari version for comparison. Does anyone know about this version? Can you help me to find the source text as well as some translation of it? Thank You very much for any help! Miroslav Rozehnal Institut of Indology Charles University, Prague, Czech Republic rozehnal at praha1.ff.cuni.cz From gheil at cs.washington.edu Mon Nov 29 23:21:52 1993 From: gheil at cs.washington.edu (gheil at cs.washington.edu) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 15:21:52 -0800 Subject: Patanjali Yoga Sutras Message-ID: <161227016360.23782.7115754271783809818.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Esteemed Indologists: I am looking for a machine readable (transliterated) version of the Patanjali sutras. I put out a general request for same on talk.religion.misc and soc.religion.eastern and received no replies. I attempted to scan and OCR the 4 page transliteration in Konrad Meisig's Yogasutra-Konkordanz. Unfortunately, though the typeset is very clear, the font is too florid for my OCR software. Perhaps he, or someone else who has used this text digitally, could be reached by EMail? Do you know of any better source of the text? I have a few that would require scanning only a hundred pages or so, stillrather impractical for 200 odd verses! Greg Heil gheil at cs.washington.edu From aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca Tue Nov 30 02:17:12 1993 From: aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca (aklujkar at unixg.ubc.ca) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 18:17:12 -0800 Subject: Yoga-suutra text Message-ID: <161227016362.23782.7820593103693003646.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This is in response to the request fromGreg Heil (gheil at cs.washington.edu) for Yoga-suutra text. I do not have a transliterated version but I do have a computerized version in Naagarii. I prepared it as a test text for the dot-matrix printer fonts for Macintosh which I was developing in early 1985. I wanted a short text that was truly representative of India and the intellectual achievements of the Sanskrit tradition -- the latter consideration mainly because the text to be printed was going to be the first or one of the first texts to be printed in its entirety in Naagarii with the help of a computer. If anyone wishes to turn the Naagarii version into a transliterated Roman version, I am willing to share it. Ashok Aklujkar, Professor, Department of Asian Studies, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada V6T 1Z2. Tel: (604) 822-5185, (604) 274-5353. Fax 822-8937. >?From THRASHER at MAIL.LOC.GOV 30 1993 Nov GMT 11:42:11 Date: 30 Nov 1993 11:42:11 GMT From: ALLEN W THRASHER Subject: 22 YEARS MISSIONARY WORK Would whoever contacted me a couple of months ago about the book Abbs, John, 22 YEARS OF MISSIONARY WORK IN TRAVANCORE, please contact me at my email address below, not via CONSALD or INDOLOGY? I have located two libraries that have it. Allen Thrasher thasher at mail.loc.gov From dran at cs.albany.edu Tue Nov 30 18:49:35 1993 From: dran at cs.albany.edu (dran at cs.albany.edu) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 13:49:35 -0500 Subject: Hi! Message-ID: <161227016367.23782.17858390882607329394.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dominik writes: > I use TeX and there are nice Devanagari, Telugu, Tamil and Malayalam fonts > available (as well as Arabic, Greek, Cyrllic, Thai, Japanese, and several > others). I'd be very interested in getting the Malayalam fonts. Paliath Narendran From SINGH at LANDO.HNS.COM Tue Nov 30 19:51:00 1993 From: SINGH at LANDO.HNS.COM (SINGH at LANDO.HNS.COM) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 14:51:00 -0500 Subject: Hi! Message-ID: <161227016370.23782.12826069663624189693.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am interested in the Devnagri text. Can I do a ftp from ftp.bcc.ac.uk? From SENS at fasecon.econ.nyu.edu Tue Nov 30 20:23:41 1993 From: SENS at fasecon.econ.nyu.edu (Sunando Sen) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 15:23:41 -0500 Subject: Hi! Message-ID: <161227016372.23782.8087347530543181628.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> SINGH at LANDO.HNS.COM > > I am interested in the Devnagri text. > > Can I do a ftp from ftp.bcc.ac.uk? Yes, you have my permission. Sunando Sen Original-Received: from gat.univ-lille1.fr by lilserv.citilille.fr Tue, 30 Nov 1993 22:11:00 +0100 PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Original-Received: by gat.univ-lille1.fr Tue, 30 Nov 93 22:15:07 +0100 PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 22:15:07 +0100 From: Yannis.Haralambous at univ-lille1.fr (Yannis Haralambous) To: indology at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: RE: Hi! Message-ID: <"mailhub.li.976:30.10.93.21.09.02"@liverpool.ac.uk> For those who are afraid of TeX we are making (at the INALCO = French Institute of Oriental Languages, former Langues'O) an interface using Word (and eventually later WordPerfect and other popular word processors). This interface, called Humanist (because it humanises (La)TeX) will allow the user to avoid TeX syntax, and to markup his/her document using Word functions or personnalized instructions like . Non-Latin alphabet languages will be typed in their own script, using special Humanist fonts. No escape sequences, just the fact of typing in a different script will produce the right (La)TeX code for every language (plus a lot of post-treatment, like adding keshideh to Arabic, pre-hyphenating Cambodian etc) Special attention is drawn to the fact that a Humanist output file is a pure LaTeX file without any form attributes, just structural ones. The fact of switching to italic or bold inside Word will produce an emphatic environment in LaTeX. The fact of underlining a word in Word will produce an index entry in LaTeX. Word tables and footnotes are converted to the respective LaTeX environments. Any attempt of the user to format his Word document (justifi- cation, choosing different font sizes, setting page dimensions etc.) will simply and purely be _ignored_. Laguages sharing the same alphabet will be differentiated by using different fonts: in this way punctuation for each language will be automatically corrected , indexes separated, proper hyphenation etc. Humanist will be written in ANSI C and will be entirely in the publc domain. A first release is scheduled for spring 1994. It will probably be officially presented at the TUG'94 meeting in July (Santa Barbara). The first languages I will work on will be Khmer, Arabic, Vietnamese, Bengali because the corresponding departments at the Institute have assigned me to make TeX systems (the Khmer system will be published in a forthcoming EP-ODD). Hope this has re-established your faith in TeX Cheers +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Yannis Haralambous Yannis.Haralambous at univ-lille1.fr | +=========================================================================+ | Centre d'Etudes et de Recherche sur le Traitement Autom. des Langues | | Institut National des Langues et Civilisations Orientales (Paris) | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Private address: 187, rue Nationale, 59800 Lille, France | | Fax: (33) 20.40.28.64 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Tue Nov 30 18:37:28 1993 From: D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 18:37:28 +0000 Subject: Hi! Message-ID: <161227016364.23782.9616674335844174920.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In message Wed, 24 Nov 1993 13:00:44 GMT+0100, IMTG0 at cc.uab.es writes: > I'm looking for sanskrit text editors, and electronic dictionaries > and texts in sanskrit. There exists something of the sort? I use TeX and there are nice Devanagari, Telugu, Tamil and Malayalam fonts available (as well as Arabic, Greek, Cyrllic, Thai, Japanese, and several others). But while I swear by TeX, it isn't everyone's cup of tea and there are now several other ways of doing Sanskrit: write to Lingua Language Services, 63b Woodhead Road Holmfirth Huddersfield HD7 1PR England Tel: +44 484 68 63 96 FAX: +44 484 68 73 20 for a nice catalogue of Indic software in various formats for various systems. Post your query to INDOLOGY for more information from others. Several INDOLOGY members have created their own fonts and related systems for Indic language work, and would probably be glad to help. For texts, have a look at the directory pub/users/ucgadkw/indology at the Internet site ftp.bcc.ac.uk for some machine-readable Sanskrit texts. Again, if you have a specific text in mind, ask INDOLOGY. There are many Sanskrit texts in machine-readable form which people might be prepared to share on a one-to-one basis with caveats about imperfection, which they would not want to post to a public archive. The only electronic dictionary of Sanskrit I know is the one which is a possible product of the work being done by Prof. P. Schreiner in Zurich . Best wishes, Dominik PS I'm copying this note to INDOLOGY members since they might be interested in the Lingua Language Services address above. -- ALERT: I shall be away in Madras from 12th - 20th November 1993, and unable to deal with email or voice messages until my return. -- Dominik Wujastyk Phone (and voice messages): +44 71 611 8467 Wellcome Institute, 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE. From D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk Tue Nov 30 18:58:38 1993 From: D.Wujastyk at ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 18:58:38 +0000 Subject: Dhammapada Message-ID: <161227016368.23782.4491705188502993395.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In message Fri, 26 Nov 93 12:56:57 GMT, rozehnal at praha1.ff.cuni.cz (Miroslav Rozehnal) writes: > In the present time I am occupied by critical translation of the > Dhammapada. I would like to take also the Gandhari version for > comparison. Does anyone know about this version? Can you help me to find > the source text as well as some translation of it? John Brough (ed.), _The Gandhari Dharmapada, edited with an introduction and commentary_ (London: Oxford University Press, 1962), London Oriental Series volume 7. Copies may still be available by writing to the Publications Office, School of Oriental and African Studies, Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square, London WC1H 0XG Dominik -- ALERT: I shall be away in Madras from 12th - 20th November 1993, and unable to deal with email or voice messages until my return. -- Dominik Wujastyk Phone (and voice messages): +44 71 611 8467 Wellcome Institute, 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE.