[INDOLOGY] From the Mahabharata

Artur Karp karp at uw.edu.pl
Tue Apr 26 03:42:59 EDT 2016


Dear Nagaraj,


>> It means *one who keeps one's hunger under one's control* .

The question is: *how *do you keep your hunger under control?

To my mind (basing on my certainly simplistic concept of my own mental
processes) - by taking control of, by overcoming the emotions/feelings
generated by the sensation of hunger, that is - the physiological need to
eat food.

And these emotions/feelings are - not necessarily distinctly - expressed
 by the poet's choice of a desiderative derivate form.

----------------------------------------------

Greg O'Toole said somewhere: "What is necessary is that the terms and other
variables in a conversation be clarified and agreed on by *all participants
in this conversation*."

Extending my  sincere gratitude to all participants in *this here*
conversation. Learning has no end.

Artur Karp

Warszawa
Polska

2016-04-26 8:59 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:

> bubhukṣāṃ jayate yas tu sa svargaṃ jayate dhruvam
>
> bubhukṣāṃ jayate yas tu  does not mean one who loses hunger or one who can
> stay without being hungry. It means one who keeps one's hunger under one's
> control .
>
> kṣudhā nirṇudati prajñāṃ dharmyāṃ buddhiṃ vyapohati
>
>
> means uncontrolled hunger destroys one's wisdom and drives off one's
> righteous understanding.
>
> Issue is bubhukShaajaya and not bubhukShaateevrataa or
> bubhukShaasaumyataa.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> Masterly exposition.
>>
>> But (I already used this twice, sorry), there is always a but lurking
>> there, somewhere behind the screens.
>>
>> How do you measure 'desire'?
>>
>> To my uneducated (no Amarakoṣa in the list of necessary readings) mind
>> the desiderative form itself guarantees the connection between the word
>> and the idea of desire.
>>
>>  'lipsā' - ‘labdhum *icchā*’ is self-explanatory.
>>
>> How intense the desire is - it's all a matter of context.
>>
>> Let me guess: in certain contexts 'lipsā' could be used to describe a
>> momentary, inconsequential wish, to obtain something without explicit
>> effort ; in other contexts, perhaps, the wish to obtain something of
>> lasting value, the act itself coldly planned for.
>>
>> Same for ‘bubhukṣā’ - intensity of the desire depends on the context.
>>
>> Who *bubhukṣāṃ jayate*  - that person overcomes the feelings, the
>> emotions that are linked with enjoyment of food. In our example - quite
>> strong emotions, considering "the season of great difficulty".
>>
>> "The choice of food metaphor in the context of bliss hails from a
>> tradition going back to Upaniṣads, where the experience of bliss was
>> linked with enjoyment of food" [V. Aklujkar, *Sharing the Divine Feast*,
>> in: R.S. Khare (ed.), *The Eternal Food: Gastronomic Ideas and
>> Experience of Hindus and Buddhists*, 1992, p. 99]
>>
>> The epic story tellers  do not want their heroes to be perfect, and go
>> around trying to do things in the "grammatick" way; they supply them with
>> words - to use as they see fit, not always properly; their heroes act, they
>> are full of, more often than not, only dimly felt emotions, and they act on
>> them, and are known to commit mistakes.
>>
>> And that is why we like them, and want to hear more about them, again and
>> again
>>
>> Let them have their emotions.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Artur
>>
>> 2016-04-26 3:37 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 25 April 2016 at 18:58, Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The desiderative at times is used to indicate strong desire. Example:
>>>> desiderative forms of labh — lipsu, lipsA. In MW, this can mean the simple
>>>> desire to gain or obtain, or “longing for”. To long — to have “a strong
>>>> wish or desire.”
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Howard
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Monier Williams has errors. An example is meaning of the gavī as an
>>> “independent word” for speech and the citation of Śiśupālavadha 2-68 which
>>> is incorrect. In this case (‘lipsā’) there is no precise citation also.
>>>
>>>
>>> The etymology (yoga) of ‘lipsā’ (‘labdhum icchā’, labh + san + a + ṭāp)
>>> does not suggest any intensity in the desire. If one wants to go for usage
>>> (rūḍhi), it is better to cross-check with Sanskrit Koṣa-s and attested
>>> usages than take M-W for granted.
>>>
>>>
>>> As per Amarakoṣa (1-7-27,28), there is a clear distinction between
>>> ‘lipsā’ which is listed with words for desire, and ‘lālasā’ which is
>>> explained as intense desire or longing (grammar would confirm this):
>>>
>>>
>>> ……………………………………………………………. dohadam
>>>
>>> icchā kāṅkṣā spṛhehā tṛḍvāñchā lipsā manorathaḥ
>>>
>>> kāmo’bhilāṣastarṣaśca *so’tyarthaṃ lālasā dvayoḥ*
>>>
>>>
>>> The Vyākhyāsudhā on above verses explains that the first twelve are
>>> synonyms of ‘icchā’ (and also ) and the word ‘lālasā’ is a synonym of
>>> ‘atiprīti’
>>>
>>>
>>> If any other authentic Koṣa or commentary on a Kāvya usage confirms that
>>> ‘longing’ or ‘intense desire’ is also a meaning of ‘lipsā’, M-W can be
>>> accepted. Same for ‘bubhukṣā’.
>>>
>>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>
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